Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: WHMZakeri on July 15, 2013, 04:38:21 PM

Title: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 15, 2013, 04:38:21 PM
Welcome to our newest members. Your mafia prowess has given you all special invites to join the largest growing mafia faction of all. Having trounced towns across the continent, our mafia faction has held control over multiple towns, and we're looking to expand on what may be the brightest town yet. We have gathered you, the best MotK has to offer. Normally we would dispatch you groups of three, but we must not under estimate our enemy. This time we'll be sending a full group of nine to deal with the situation!
... Huh? Wait a minute, why are there twelve of you? This isn't in the proceeding! W-wait! The town is ... they're already fighting back aren't they? This is an emergency, you guys will attempt to take care of this using your training. In the mean time, I'll try to pull up the file to sort all of this out. Now where did I put them? Oh man this is going to take forever, I knew not keeping it small would be a bad idea oh man oh god oh no no no...

1. Have fun. If you're confused about the flavor, the short version is that everything is the opposite of what it usually is.
2. Nights will last exactly 72 hours. Days will last approximately 24.
3. Because it is dangerous to leave the kill in a single person's hands, you must vote who to nightkill by posting in the thread "##Kill: Person"
4. At any time, you may "##Unkill" a person during the night. You do not have to unkill to move your vote.
5. If a Majority vote is not reached, no nightkill will occur.
6. During the day town will decide who to lynch by regular voting. Unfortunately, all actual mafia members are still waiting for their voting permits.
7. Remember, we don't want to alert the town of our current situation. You may not discuss the game during the day where other townies can hear. You are allowed to discuss unrelated things. If your role allows you to talk outside of the thread you will be provided with a quicktopic to do so in.
8. No editing posts, no screenshots, no word for word copy and pasting of role PMs etc.
9. Any personal claims to break the rules will be treated as if they are breaking the rules.
10. Just like in any other game, town may use their roles and the town lynch at the same time.
11. If a player does not attempt to #Kill at least once per day I will be forced to find a replacement (night one or two), or modkill that slot (night three+).
-You are allowed to #No Kill, or have #Killed once and #Unkilled.

Quote from: Anti-Meta
You are a Mafia Goon. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You win when all members of the town have been removed from the Mafia.

Living:
1. ActionDan
2. Validon98
3. Dormio
9. Affinity


Dead:
---
Killed Night One: Serela - Town Mason
Lynched Day Two: BBM - Mafia Governor
Killed Night Two: Raitaki - Town Miller
Lynched Day Three: Vhaltzo - Mafia Cop
Killed Night Three: Serious Bananas - Mafia Goon
Lynched Day Four: RaikariaConqueror - Mafia Goon
Killed Night Four: BT - Mafia Goon
Lynched Day Five: Shadoweh - Mafia Roleclop

Links
Night one begin (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997706.html#msg997706)
Day two (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999385.html#msg999385)
Night two (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999832.html#msg999832)
Day Three (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000974.html#msg1000974)
Night Three (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1001336.html#msg1001336)
Day Four (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1001503.html#msg1001503)
Night Four (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1001741.html#msg1001741)
Day Five (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1002554.html#msg1002554)
Night Five (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1002864.html#msg1002864)

Confirmation begins now. Please post in thread when you have received your role.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: BT on July 15, 2013, 04:50:54 PM
Claiming scum, don't CC.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Validon98 on July 15, 2013, 05:51:37 PM
Scum here, let's nightkill some town.  >:D
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Raikaria on July 15, 2013, 06:16:03 PM
Woo, I'm town scum!

Fitting we're meeting at night. If only we did so in Villians. Then maybe Dio wouldn't have turned into a pile of ash N1  :3
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Raikaria on July 15, 2013, 06:16:42 PM
Also Zakeri you got the phase wrong. It's N1, not D1.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 15, 2013, 06:19:43 PM
Shit, I wanted to make a joke about consolidating for a lynch in confirmation phase, but it'd be a consolidation kill instead of a consolidation lynch and having to specify that makes it lose all its fun.

/confirm
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 15, 2013, 06:34:00 PM
I saw my role PM before reading the rules and I was so confused. x_x

Anyways, /confirm.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: SB on July 15, 2013, 06:53:49 PM
I was sat here for like 5 minutes trying to think of something witty to say, but screw it.


/confirm

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 15, 2013, 07:20:46 PM
I was sat here for like 5 minutes trying to think of something witty to say, but screw it.


/confirm

Clearly the wittiness is in your incorrect grammar!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Raitaki on July 15, 2013, 08:11:38 PM
/confirm!

>:C
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 15, 2013, 08:28:24 PM
I changed my name to remind people that Mitsuki is in this with me even though I'll be the one posting. I wasn't really thinking straight when I did it a few minutes ago without asking for mod confirmation, I hope that's not a problem since we're still in confirmation phase.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 15, 2013, 09:06:15 PM
Shit.
B> Ticket out of this dump
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Raitaki on July 15, 2013, 10:24:25 PM
Shit.
B> Ticket out of this dump
Sold for free.

Guys let's NK Dormio N1 he wants it :D
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: ActionDan on July 15, 2013, 11:28:37 PM
confirming.

I will carry this team. clearly
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Serela on July 16, 2013, 12:15:00 AM
I'm here and sleepy
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 16, 2013, 03:32:59 AM
OH GOD I'M SCUM IN TOWN MAFIA HOW CAN THIS BE
...wait
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 1) (Confirmation)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 16, 2013, 10:51:30 PM
All but One person has confirmed.
Day one has now ended. No majority was reached.*
Night one begins now, you have 72 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130719T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1&csz=1) to submit you choice for the night kill and any night actions (Not day actions) you may have.


*: this is a joke
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 16, 2013, 10:57:56 PM
##Kill Raitaki

FEEL THE THUNDER

If Affinity doesn't show up (inspection of his profile shows he's been inactive for a while) it might be good to have a sub ready.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 16, 2013, 11:02:44 PM
If Affinity doesn't show up (inspection of his profile shows he's been inactive for a while) it might be good to have a sub ready.

True.
With that said...

##Kill: BigBangMeteor

REVENGE.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 16, 2013, 11:21:07 PM
##Kill:Shadoweh

You want to be the townest, don't you?!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 16, 2013, 11:24:14 PM
##Kill: Serela
I suggest we do this now before we all end up having to bus him like a pack of two-year olds. Also I am the cutest scummy and you are not, don't be jelly
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 16, 2013, 11:45:08 PM
##Kill Shadoweh
Were you honestly expecting anything else?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 17, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
I don't know who Mosdorl is, but only person can be the best, and it is I!

##Kill: Shadoweh
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 12:52:30 AM
Look guys, this is never going to happen. The mafia never agree to kill me.
Never.
NEVER. ;_;

Mosdorl: Trickster of Dragon Pass[/b]. He's also better then you, even if I like you BBM.
Even though you talked to me until killing you was impossible. >:< (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14598.0.html)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 17, 2013, 01:01:58 AM
Your failure to BBcode clearly signifies your willingness to die.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raitaki on July 17, 2013, 04:07:02 AM
##Kill: Validon98

DO MORE VP PLZ.

shadoweh im actually not getting a townrid on you this game WAT IS DIS
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 04:49:58 AM
It's because I said jelly. If you're not getting a townread from me maybe it's because I'M NOT TOWN IN COMMUNIST MAFIA. Also I'm surprised despite my inability to bbcode it went to the right place.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 17, 2013, 05:39:08 AM
I guess I'll just have to convince you I'm the best through my WINNING STRATEGY.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 05:43:43 AM
Your current winning strategy involves killing me! How is that going to convince me of anything?!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 17, 2013, 05:53:22 AM
Typing real fast because I have to leave in 15 minutes and I won't be back for 9~ish hours now that work is a thing.

This post in confirmation phase irked me
I saw my role PM before reading the rules and I was so confused. x_x

I was also equally confused a few minutes before and could've done the same thing, but Decided Against It because it could be misinterpreted as fishing for cred since it would be a townie scummy reaction to a town scum PM. Genuine town scum wouldn't have posted that unless they were careless and I believe BBM is much more experienced than I and as such a competent player.

Shadoweh had a similar thing going on in her confirmation post but that sounded a lot more like a joke on past game meta. Nobody would take that seriously as a towntell scumtell, whereas I could see somebody taking BBM's seriously.

##Vote: BBM

Holy shit doing the BBCCode for voting was weird for a second there. Spent too much time without playing mafia!

Eh, later I'm going to ditch calling town town and start calling them scum anyway because that's what they must be from the mafiosi point of view . See you guys in 9 hours.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 17, 2013, 05:56:23 AM
So, I wholly approve of BBM's WINNING STRATEGY. More people should adhere to it.
Vhaltz's latest post is pretty tryhard. Wondering why the other people doing similar things weren't also fishing for cred. Just putting that out there for now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 17, 2013, 06:01:09 AM
##Vote: Shadoweh

just like old times.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 17, 2013, 06:25:47 AM
shadoweh im actually not getting a townrid on you this game WAT IS DIS
Set your place on the Serious-O-Meter.

Cool.

Vhaltz's latest post is pretty tryhard. Wondering why the other people doing similar things weren't also fishing for cred. Just putting that out there for now.
No one was doing anything similar. Unless you mean lame "I'm scum" jokes which isn't really the same thing (and aren't lame when I do it).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 17, 2013, 06:26:33 AM
Unless you mean lame "I'm scum" jokes which isn't really the same thing (and aren't lame when I do it).
They pretty much are though.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 17, 2013, 06:32:47 AM
They pretty much are though.
Jokes are jokes that anyone can blend in with regardless of alignment.

"I'm confused by my PM" is either a real response to an event or an attempt to falsify one.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 17, 2013, 08:34:51 AM
First Votecount
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Raitaki:    BT (1)
Serela:    Shadoweh (1)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo (2)

Not Voting: Raikaria, Affinity, Serious Bananas (3)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
You have 62 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130719T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1&csz=1).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 08:38:21 AM
Look at these scrubs voting like a townie. I was confused too for a minute when I saw my role pm, but it's not like it's the first time I got a red role that looked like that. I seriously thought Vhaltz's post was BT because no one else rambles writes long posts like he does. You shouldn't make decisions on what to say because you think it'll make you look townie, Vhaltz, only the townies need to care about being good little boys. You're not a good little boy, are you?

They pretty much are though.
im gay
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 17, 2013, 08:41:38 AM
Voting? We're killing here. My gun just happens to be broken or something.

im gay
When are you going to say something we don't know?


Personally, I think that we should consolidate on Shadoweh. Remember all those times where we almost powerlynched her but we didn't. And then she turned out to be an independent third party serial killer? Or aligned with the informed minority? I think we should think back to those times and casually shift our votes to Shadoweh.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 17, 2013, 11:34:01 AM
Hello guys.

I have no clue what you fellow rookie mafioso are doing, but I for one have GUT INSTINCTS, and my GUT INSTINCTS are telling me this person is town!

#Kill: BBM

I don't know why. Blame gut.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 17, 2013, 11:46:23 AM
For the record, I'm calling the mafia the town, and the town the mafia. It's much easier.

I was also equally confused a few minutes before and could've done the same thing, but Decided Against It because it could be misinterpreted as fishing for cred since it would be a townie scummy reaction to a town scum PM. Genuine town scum wouldn't have posted that unless they were careless and I believe BBM is much more experienced than I and as such a competent player.

So you're uh, voting him for doing something that a townie might do? That's what it sounds like to me. There's also the bolded bit which sounds pretty self-conscious, with you worrying about people getting on your case for a confirmation post.

##Kill: Vhaltzotsuki
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 17, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
Yes, we are using the usual lingo for this game (no dumb confusing opposites).

##Unkill Raitaki, ##Kill Raikaria

Abuse of gut is likelihood++ (the need to find something of substance for a RVS vote). Also no comment on the serious vote which already exists on BBM.

RE above: the self-conscious bit is fine. I'll hold off involvement for now though.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 17, 2013, 03:00:19 PM
Worth preemptively mentioning I have work most of today and tomorrow.

Vhaltz is super tryhard which makes me lean town a little, nothing else worth noting because :rvs:, but I'll get prodded before my return if I don't say something now :T I mean I guess I could mention Serious Bananas' vote on him, but it's justified well 'nuff.
im gay
shadoweh x k4u OTP
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 17, 2013, 03:16:52 PM
For the record, I'm calling the mafia the town, and the town the mafia. It's much easier.

So you're uh, voting him for doing something that a townie might do? That's what it sounds like to me. There's also the bolded bit which sounds pretty self-conscious, with you worrying about people getting on your case for a confirmation post.

##Kill: Vhaltzotsuki

It's more Vhaltz didn't do it.  Vhaltz then thinks that because he is town, other townies would do the same as Vhaltz.  If someone did it whether it was to fish for cred or not, then they aren't doing something a townie would do, and therefore they are more likely scum.

Don't care for vote.  Don't care to vote you.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 17, 2013, 03:29:29 PM
Bananas' post mixed up what I had to say because he is interpreting the mafia in this game as town and the town in this game as mafia, which calls for some sort of agreement as to what terminology we'll be using in this game to not misinterpret the hell out of each other. I'm with using the same as BT and Bananas since otherwise the whole mafia terminology kind of falls apart.

For clarification purposes, I will use -general mafia X- to refer to the terminology one would use in a normal mafia that isn't turned around for this post. If you don't see it next to some lingo in the post it probably just means I forgot, but it will still mean the same as in regular mafia terminology.

Vhaltz's latest post is pretty tryhard. Wondering why the other people doing similar things weren't also fishing for cred. Just putting that out there for now.

I addressed this before the question was even asked by saying that I wasn't reading jokes the same way since they wouldn't be read seriously. The intent could be the same, sure, but by not being serious in the joke posts nobody is going to read further into them, while BBM was expressing actual confusion instead of joking. This post, due to not being a joke, means that it is more likely to be read seriously and read to some like a genuine reaction (-general mafia towntell-). This could have been fabricated for cred.

Jokes are jokes that anyone can blend in with regardless of alignment.

"I'm confused by my PM" is either a real response to an event or an attempt to falsify one.

So do you think it was a genuine response or a fabrication?

You vote Raikaria for giving no input on this subject other than -gut-, but while you have peeked in to clarify my vote, you didn't specify whether you thought anything else about the subject. I know you have mentioned that you'll withhold judgement, but still.



Re: Shadoweh and Bananas.

I was addressing the idea because upon thinking about it for a second, anybody would realize that not only was expressing confusion over the turnover irrelevant, but it could be misunderstood (making it a Pretty Bad Idea as -general mafia town-). Being clear and avoiding misunderstandings as -general mafia town- means less people willing to -general mafia lynch- you, and while -general mafia scum- further their wincon this way, so does -general mafia town- by avoiding their own mislynch. The difference here is that:

- Being careless and posting something that could be misunderstood --> Contrary to a -general mafia town- wincon since misunderstandings could get you -general mafia lynched-.

- Posting it on purpose to get cred --> Furthers scum wincon since they'd figure nobody would take a confirmation post seriously enough to -general mafia lynch- them D1, whereas posting it on purpose to see if they'd get -general mafia town cred- from somebody who happens to read it as a genuine reaction would further a -general mafia scum- win condition.

I can't really say much else about -self consciousness- if you don't understand the difference after that. I like not being misunderstood and you can see that littered all over my posts in the forum, not only mafia. Plus, if you're implying that -general mafia town- would post whatever came into their heads without thinking or filtering what they would think is relevant, everybody would post like Serela, and that just doesn't happen.


Cut by Serela I wrote out the earlier post in 15-20 minutes, if you've had time to read the thread then as -general mafia town- you must have thought something relevant that you could post as you read through since you would be -general mafia scumhunting-, do you really have nothing else to comment on?

I almost forgot to mention another thing (clearly these posts aren't long enough).
@BT Raikaria is running into the game with a BBM vote on -gut-. Wouldn't it be easier for scum to join the wagon by sheeping the already existent reasoning to vote him?

Cut, getting this out there.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 17, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
Once I chip in fully you'll get my opinion on that.

As for Raikaria: scum are going to first fear for their entrance and then seek out effective wagons. I think this is what we're seeing. Had he wanted to join a BBM wagon he probably would have said something more -- it's just an entry post, and I think it came from scum.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 17, 2013, 04:28:41 PM
Uh... Imma use regular "town" and "scum" now as if they were the -general mafia town- and -general mafia scum- from last post (like I already did in the cuts). I may have made things more confusing by using the -general mafia x- thing so if there's any questions I'm free for about 6 hours until I go to bed.

Actually I think it's worth mentioning again in a more direct manner that the terminology is a pretty important thing and that everybody should compromise to use the same instead of just settling for whatever they like best.

Posts are running wordier and slower than usual because Mitsuki and I are trying to reach an agreement in everything before posting. There's this idea we're discussing that he'd be prideful enough not to want to give off a -weak/confused- image of himself, which would make the post likelier to be a scum strategy for cred, but I haven't played against BBM until now so I figured I'd put this out there to see if we can get more input on this.

@Dan: While I personally like to avoid misunderstandings and I accept that it could ultimately be an issue of being subjective, it's the best I've got right now, and I think I clarified well enough in the post above how it's a Pretty Bad post from town perspective (and experienced player) or a Pretty Good Idea from scum perspective. Do you still think the same after that?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 06:45:40 PM
Actually I think it's worth mentioning again in a more direct manner that the terminology is a pretty important thing and that everybody should compromise to use the same instead of just settling for whatever they like best.
Look, my role pm says Mafia. I'm not going to call myself Town just because it's less confusing somehow when our roles say MAFIA. It's not that hard to reverse your terminology for one game. If it's really that hard talk about it as 'the guys we want to lynch' or something.

As for BBM being Pride-ful, someone commented that the more pro-town he seems the more you should lynch him for being scum. He hasn't said enough for me to get a bead on that yet (not that I'm very good at judging it >_> ) I'll just ask Conq when he inevitably replaces in. I have to admit when it comes to you that if you can be scum and make up this imaginary argument I'd be pretty impressed with you.

##Unkill ##Kill: Raikaria BECAUSE GUT. TASTE THE IRONY.
More seriously the wording of 'fellow rookie mafioso' sounds like one of those cop movies where the comedic sidekick is trying to fit in with the gangsters. If we were watching this movie we'd be yelling at the screen to punch the obvious buddy-cop in the gut.

Serela that post, what the fuck is it. I get that it's the first thoughts that pop in your head, but I have no idea what you mean by Serious Banana's 'justified vote' and it sounds kind of like 'other people have explained it's justified so thumbs up!' Tell me if you're agreeing with other people or actually having your own thoughts.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 17, 2013, 07:18:47 PM
First DEATHCOUNT
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh (2)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Not Voting: Affinity (1)

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
You have  51.7 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130719T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1&csz=1).
Activity Notice If an active player does not vote at least once per day phase (you may vote and unvote, or vote: no lynch), I will inquire for replacements (before day 2) or modkill them in the morning (Day 3 and onward)
A flavor edited version of this rule will be put into the OP.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 17, 2013, 07:37:05 PM
Wait, there was a serious vote on BBM? I hadn't actually had time to read the thread. Been pretty busy!

Reading it, I see why the quote didn't stand out in my flash-read. There's nothing of value there. The vote isn't valid.

I think you're attempting to make a little bit too much something out of what is really nothing BT. Just 'cause I'm late to RVS because Britland and I'm busy so don't have time to make a proper post and read what is mostly RVS shenanigans deeply isn't a reason to be jumped on.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 07:43:14 PM
I think you can consider anything Vhaltz has said to be serious non-rvs thinking. At this point you can at least say what you think about the shenanigans and how they reflect on the people doing them. If we all just say 'that means nothing going back to sleep' we're not going to get alot out of the day.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 17, 2013, 07:57:49 PM
Except I don't think there is anything in Vhaltz's point. I'm not sure where to go, who to push, and where to start.

I'm usually pretty good at making someone try and stab at me, and then other people latch on that and then we get progress. Usually the one who attacked me being the scums.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 17, 2013, 07:58:04 PM
Except this game they're the towns.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 17, 2013, 08:06:40 PM
@Shadoweh- Nah, I just play better in anonymous games than regular games, for the most part, regardless of my alignment.

As for Vhaltzo's argument, it's not an attempt to fish for cred. All I said was that looking at my PM confused me- that could have been by seeing I was "mafia", but not seeing who my scumbuddies were (what happened), or seeing I was "town", but with buddies randomly. So the act of being confused upon seeing my PM isn't limited to only townies (in this situation I'm using the regular meaning of town), and as such I don't think that my first post can be seen as an attempt to gain cred, because it doesn't actually give any cred.

I'm also not even that experienced a player, lol. Pretty sure at least a good chunk of the players in this game have played longer than I have.

Additionally, your premise makes little sense to me. Why would you only post what I did if you were careless? Almost anything can be misinterpreted. Yes, you shouldn't go out of your way to be purposefully vague, but I'm not going to double read every little comment I make to make sure it is 100% a-okay. That's something mafia do, not town. Vhaltzo's arguments seem to take a lot of words to cover up a weak logical basis.

I don't like how Dormio doesn't try to make a judgement on the consequences of being tryhard. Do you think that it's tryhard in a townie or scummy way? I also don't really like how you're ignoring most of what's going on, while continuing to talk about not-serious stuff. 

BT covers why Raikaria's original vote post is bad pretty well, but in addition- if your vote against me is not serious, then why classify it as a gutread in the first place? Honestly it looks like you're saying that you did something scummy on purpose to provoke reactions, which is really bad. If you purposely say something dumb to get people to attack you, how is it then scummy for people to point it out and vote for you? Additionally, it just screws up other people's reads. Looks like you're backtracking to provide a reason.

Plus, if the scums are the people attacking you, why aren't you looking at BT or Shadoweh right now? ##Unvote, ##Vote: Raikaria
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 17, 2013, 08:09:44 PM
I think you're attempting to make a little bit too much something out of what is really nothing BT. Just 'cause I'm late to RVS because Britland and I'm busy so don't have time to make a proper post and read what is mostly RVS shenanigans deeply isn't a reason to be jumped on.
That's not the beef in question. I think your entrance was kind of forced ("blame gut"). Retroactively devaluing Vhaltz's post like that also bothers me for reasons I can't seem to put to good words. I mean, even if you were "flash reading" you'd still have to notice a big post in the middle of RVS and want to know what the deal with that is.

My timezone is worse than yours.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 17, 2013, 08:17:18 PM
BBM you're kind of inaccurate. Rai's vote on you WASN'T serious and that's my point - using gut (even jokingly) to make a RVS vote seem slightly "safer" than usual as more likely to come from scum. Plus I'm pretty sure he meant that people think he's scum regardless of what he does, not that he purposefully makes people attack him, so that's a wrong tree to bark up on.

And since you've already said it, it's time to chip in - I thought BBM was telling the truth about being confused because it's true for both alignments. This also begs the question "why didn't Vhaltz think of this" and I'm leaning towards it being a towntell. (I mean, his recent posts has "town" scribbled all over them artistically anyway, but sure.)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 17, 2013, 08:26:10 PM
I know he wasn't serious, but I was taking it in a different angle. It seemed more to me that he was trying to make it seem more than it was to gain reactions. I'm not as versed with his meta so idk if people normally find him scummy when he's town (they haven't really in the games I've played with him anyways), but it doesn't seem right to me. And in any case, if the people attacking him are normally mafia, why isn't he looking at you and Shadoweh (and now me, I guess)?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 17, 2013, 09:02:37 PM
Plus, if the scums are the people attacking you, why aren't you looking at BT or Shadoweh right now? ##Unvote, ##Vote: Raikaria

I never said it's usually the first ones. I actually planned to wait a bit longer before reacting to votes on me, since usually it's not the ones who jump first. The early jumpers are usually the town, because I've done something slightly silly. Those people are scumhunting. It's the sharks that come in later, once there is a drop of blood in the water.

Besides, how often do I *not* get ED1 wagoned? You may not know BBM, but it's kinda a regular occurrence for me to get ED1 wagon'ed. It even happened in Sereliest where I was Romney. I'm just *really* bad with ED1.

And I saw my gut instinct as no worse than things like this as 'reasoning' for RVS:

True.
With that said...

##Kill: BigBangMeteor

REVENGE.

My gut instinct said my RVS should go on BBM. That's it. I didn't mean anything more, anything less. If being honest for my reason for placing RVS is a lynching reason, fine. If being too busy to comment on something that I saw as relatively unimportant and weak is bad, fine.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 17, 2013, 09:12:10 PM
Maybe he's not looking at me because I'm a Vixatious Vixen. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/10ed879e3a00c5e1bb3b39d8d9bd4bed.jpg) I've taken to ignoring Dormio completely since talking to him only escalates into wall-posts of horrors but I supose I should prod him towards opinions on people so he stops sliding delightfully into murderating victories.

I don't think Vhaltz has been scum yet. His posts just as BT said, seem to write Innocent Child in flowery handwriting everywhere. Raikaria on the other hand seems to get nasty attention more often. 'im waiting' isn't a satisfying argument towards unvoting you Rai, the best way for scum to get people off of them is to not say anything until a shiny object distracts people. (Cut naturally by Rai actually posting something better) This kind of argument is more defensive then useful. The difference between GUT and what Validon posted is one yours can later be argued to be serious, and Validon isn't. It kind of looks like you're backing down out of fear because people jumped on you. Your best bet is to move on and say how you feel -now- when there are people attacking you. Which ones are teh scumz?

On a seperate note though, I had to check that Validon was in the game because your post reminded me. The fact that he's not filling the thread with ten pages of questions is suspicious actually. Validon what r u doin?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 17, 2013, 09:27:02 PM
This kind of argument is more defensive then useful. The difference between GUT and what Validon posted is one yours can later be argued to be serious, and Validon isn't. It kind of looks like you're backing down out of fear because people jumped on you. Your best bet is to move on and say how you feel -now- when there are people attacking you. Which ones are teh scumz?

On a seperate note though, I had to check that Validon was in the game because your post reminded me. The fact that he's not filling the thread with ten pages of questions is suspicious actually. Validon what r u doin?

I did not intend my vote to sound serious in any way, hence what I hoped would come across at poking fun at the fact it was a gut instinct. I'm not backing down on anything, I never stepped UP to anything, and if you guys have that impression, well, it's wrong.

I'd move on, if I didn't now have a reason to think BBM could be one of those aformentioned sharks, jumping on the wagon. His reasoning is basically 'What BT said' and then twisting my words from when I explained how ED1 usually goes with me. I never said at any point I do something dumb ED1 on purpose to provoke reactions, I say usually someone jumps on me, usually because I've done something slightly dumb. It's the 'first drop of blood' that 'calls the sharks'.

The fact his argument boils down to 'What BT said' combined with word-twisting makes me think he's just sheeping. Or sharking, for my metaphor. That said, it could just be OMGUS.

I'm not sure at this point, however, but I don't have anywhere better to put my vote right now anyway, BT and Shadoweh actually scumhunted, from the looks. BBM's vote feels like jumping on a wagon.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 17, 2013, 09:32:35 PM
Look, my role pm says Mafia. I'm not going to call myself Town just because it's less confusing somehow when our roles say MAFIA. It's not that hard to reverse your terminology for one game. If it's really that hard talk about it as 'the guys we want to lynch' or something.

As for BBM being Pride-ful, someone commented that the more pro-town he seems the more you should lynch him for being scum. He hasn't said enough for me to get a bead on that yet (not that I'm very good at judging it >_> ) I'll just ask Conq when he inevitably replaces in. I have to admit when it comes to you that if you can be scum and make up this imaginary argument I'd be pretty impressed with you.

Way to prove your point by screwing it up yourself right away in the very same post :V

What's important is that we all agree to use the same one. I just suggest that it should be regular terminology because it's what we're all used to and somebody is bound to screw it up like above at some point if we turn it around.


BBM

+@BT for this one: How does confusion also feasibly coming up from a town PM make anything I've said here (core of the case) invalid?

- Being careless and posting something that could be misunderstood --> Contrary to a -general mafia town- wincon since misunderstandings could get you -general mafia lynched-.

- Posting it on purpose to get cred --> Furthers scum wincon since they'd figure nobody would take a confirmation post seriously enough to -general mafia lynch- them D1, whereas posting it on purpose to see if they'd get -general mafia town cred- from somebody who happens to read it as a genuine reaction would further a -general mafia scum- win condition.

It doesn't and it just feels like something obvious is being presented in a way that it invalidates the case when it doesn't. This makes the case look weaker in the eyes of others if they don't bother to double-check whether or not the invalidation is valid in itself. Which would be most people. Plus I don't believe that those getting green PM's in this game who were actually confused by their PM would've openly expressed their confusion, just in case.

Additionally, your premise makes little sense to me. Why would you only post what I did if you were careless? Almost anything can be misinterpreted. Yes, you shouldn't go out of your way to be purposefully vague, but I'm not going to double read every little comment I make to make sure it is 100% a-okay. That's something mafia do, not town. Vhaltzo's arguments seem to take a lot of words to cover up a weak logical basis.

You either haven't read my post properly or you're handwaving it just like Raikaria has. I can see Raikaria not getting my case after the way he derped in last game, but coming from you this would be A Very Scummy Thing when coming right after Raikaria's handwaving, because there's this bias in decision-making called Availability Cascade that can be abused. The gist of it is "Repeat something enough times and it will come true", and you already used this, knowingly or not, to bullshit your way into winning last game. Town!BBM in Rewrite didn't read like they were doing this.

I also addressed the issue of scum self-consciousness versus regular self-consciousness to avoid being lynched as town earlier in the -Re: Shadoweh and Bananas- part of the post, in the bits that sandwich the -case core- I quoted earlier and everybody can and should proofcheck that by clicking here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997962.html#msg997962). You clearly haven't read this either or are trying to paint me as scum using outdated reasoning as if I hadn't actually addressed it (see availability cascade).

Additionally, you vote Raikaria for screwing up people's reads by making himself a target to try to end RVS and/or aid in his scumhunting. From the way you worded it, it's painfully obvious that you think that this is bad play instead of scum intent. Reads like you felt you could add something to the existing case and free wagon hops ahoy.


Imma go to bed in a few minutes and I'm happier with where my vote is than what I thought I would be.


On Raikaria:

I'm fine with BT's Raikaria vote after his earlier explanation. It doesn't apply to all mafia players, but Raikaria is the kind of player it would apply to since he is not experienced at being scum. One part of my brain says it would be nice if he didn't reach LyLo but other is kind of gut reading him town. Plus I don't think BBM would be bussing this early and he's a lot more scum so.

Cuts about Raikaria stuff might read before sleeping but won't comment on until tomorrow. I probably won't have enough time to read everything new and put out a post before I leave for work tomorrow but I'll try.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 17, 2013, 09:49:41 PM
On a side note to the game, by the way: I keep using "I" because it's more comfortable to write like that, but I'd prefer it if we were referred to by our hydra name and not just me from now onwards if possible. The posts wouldn't have been the same without Mitsuki here.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 17, 2013, 10:11:52 PM
@Vhaltzotsuki- It makes it invalid because if the confusion can arise from being either alignment, then there is no towncred to be gained from saying you're confused. Look at the thread. Has anyone said or even hinted that any point they thought that I was townier due to saying I was confused at the beginning? If there's no towncred to be gained from it, then it's a completely null move. Your whole premise is that an experienced town player wouldn't make a statement that could be misinterpreted as fishing for cred, but there is no cred to be gained here in the first place.

I know I used Availability Cascade last game. However, that was a completely different case of events, where I had an investigation guilty on me, causing there to literally be only one or two defences I could possibly make to avoid getting lynched. That's quite different from defending myself from a vote made less than 24 hours into the game.

Raikaria's play is scummy and not bad because it's backtracking and giving a reason to something that wasn't originally there to make it look better than it actually was. He says that he's good at making people take a stab at him. To me, this implies that his actions were purposeful. He's saying now that it just happens automatically, but it honestly doesn't look like that to me, in this situation. Perhaps I'm used to my own site meta, where this sort of thing is regarded as really scummy.

And I don't particularly care if half my vote comes from BT. It's early on in the phase and there isn't much to comment on. Someone else got to pointing something out before I did- does that mean I'm no longer allowed to vote someone for it?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 17, 2013, 10:20:04 PM
It's also best not to meta me when I've only played one game on this site as each alignment. That's not much of a sample size or enough to know whether what I did as each alignment is something I do often. Rewrite wasn't a very good game for me either.

Your standards for me seem rather high and I'm not quite sure why. I've proved myself capable of bad decisions as town as well (deciding to clear Shadoweh in Rewrite completely off character).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 18, 2013, 09:03:43 PM
He says that he's good at making people take a stab at him. To me, this implies that his actions were purposeful. He's saying now that it just happens automatically, but it honestly doesn't look like that to me, in this situation.

I never said I'm good at making people take a stab at me.

I said it usually happens.

The early jumpers are usually the town, because I've done something slightly silly. Those people are scumhunting. It's the sharks that come in later, once there is a drop of blood in the water.

Besides, how often do I *not* get ED1 wagoned? You may not know BBM, but it's kinda a regular occurrence for me to get ED1 wagon'ed. It even happened in Sereliest where I was Romney. I'm just *really* bad with ED1.

Where here do I say 'I make people vote me ED1 on purpose?'. I say it usually happens. I don't see where you are twisting 'I'm reactiontesting people' from.

And since it looks to me like you're attempting to twist my words, my vote shall stay where it is. Misrepping is scummy.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 18, 2013, 09:05:36 PM
I'm perfectly happy with not being around at LYLO. I've been around at LYO so not-often that I'm probobly as likely to screw the town as Serela.

Also @ Mods: Requesting deadline extended for 24 hours due to site downtime.

@ Everyone: My activity will be sparce Sat+Sun.  I'm away from a PC for over 12 hours each day, likely 8am ~ midnight.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 18, 2013, 09:10:01 PM
oh my goodness the walls.

my last post had mafia as town and town as mafia btw.

I will continue to use that convention because brain is wired that way.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 18, 2013, 09:51:00 PM
Whoever was wondering where I was, I was dealing with the fact that the site changed and thus I couldn't post shit. Give me a few moments, let me read and see why everyone else is jumping on Raikaria now.
Also, filling the thread with ten pages of questions? I don't think I did that in I Wanna Be the Sereliest. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 18, 2013, 10:09:10 PM
Okay, reading Raikaria town as of the moment. Seriously, if people are on Rai's case because of the way the vote on BBM was phrased, you've got to be shitting me. BT is looking more scummy but that's mainly from the "OH LOOK THE VOTE OBVIOUSLY IS COMING FROM SCUM BECAUSE OF GUT" thing he did when he first voted Rai, so I'm not going to vote for him yet. Seriously, though, I could tell it was a joke. So was my vote. =_=;

I believe BBM's confusion as well. I myself was confused when I got my role PM. However, that's not a clear in any way. Rai has a point about the ED1 thing: You misrepped the case. My vote for now stays where it is.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 18, 2013, 10:41:52 PM
I'm still fully behind lynching Shadoweh, by the way.

Vhaltz tryharding is something I don't mind, though I'm not really behind his BBM vote.

Really dislike Raikaria. Considering shifting vote but can't take vote away from Shadoweh. For now.
Puts down random vote at a phase where people are shifting towards a more serious discussion.
My gut instinct said my RVS should go on BBM. That's it. I didn't mean anything more, anything less. If being honest for my reason for placing RVS is a lynching reason, fine. If being too busy to comment on something that I saw as relatively unimportant and weak is bad, fine.
I did not intend my vote to sound serious in any way, hence what I hoped would come across at poking fun at the fact it was a gut instinct. I'm not backing down on anything, I never stepped UP to anything, and if you guys have that impression, well, it's wrong.
I don't even know what the fuck. I mean if you're defending your opinion then it's kind of a serious thing and I have no idea why you're trying to label it as anything else.
Eh, screw it.
##Unkill Shadoweh
##Kill Raikaria

I'm going to assume that by "Rai", Validon is referring to Raikaria instead of Raitaki. Could you please type out the full name considering we have both of them in the game?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 18, 2013, 11:04:37 PM
Aaaaaugh. Site is back online only a few minutes from my bedtime.

I have like a wallpost of things to say to BBM but after spending valuable time on that I haven't finished it yet. I'd just go to sleep and come back to it tomorrow but there's a little bit of the wall that I have to put out now because it's relevant to a thing I want to address on BT before I go.

@Vhaltzotsuki- It makes it invalid because if the confusion can arise from being either alignment, then there is no towncred to be gained from saying you're confused. Look at the thread. Has anyone said or even hinted that any point they thought that I was townier due to saying I was confused at the beginning? If there's no towncred to be gained from it, then it's a completely null move. Your whole premise is that an experienced town player wouldn't make a statement that could be misinterpreted as fishing for cred, but there is no cred to be gained here in the first place.

But there is towncred to be gained if you're scum faking it?

The point about the towncred not happening because nobody is posting in-thread saying "my god that confirmation post is so town" is invalid, I stated my concern with your post in the first few actual game posts so it's obvious as hell that nobody would go ahead and say it after that. Whether or not people got to use the post as a towntell in their heads and whether or not they got to post about it doesn't change the intent in a post that's fishing for a towntell by trying to emulate a townie reaction to an unusual PM. The intent would clearly be scum and it doesn't matter to this point that the player could be confused with both possible alignment's PMs because only scum would fake the reaction to get cred.



BT, you said BBM's confusion could happen as both alignments upon receiving their PM, and that this was the reason why you thought that BBM's confirmation post reads genuine to you. However, this point about -confusion feasibly coming from reading either alignment's PM- had only recently come up in BBM's post, not before, and it doesn't make sense in my head that you would wait to get home or whatever chipping in meant to post this explanation. When compared to the length of your earlier posts, it seems like you could have perfectly commented on it earlier if this reasoning had actually happened earlier, which reads to me like this reasoning was merely borrowed from BBM to address my question to which you had no real answer before, and this could be coming from scum. Mitsuki and I read Disgagea Mafia a little bit over a week ago and you did evading of questions similar to this in that game. Plus the fact that the reasoning isn't really All That Great like I have explained earlier in the post and that the reasoning is even from your point of view not indicative of alignment at all. What do you think of BBM?

3 cuts waaaaaaaaaaaay past bedtime now see you guys in a bunch of hours.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 18, 2013, 11:29:58 PM
Incoming Count
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, ActionDan (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh, BBM, Dormio (4)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Not Voting: Affinity (1)

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
As a result of difficulties regarding temporal paradoxes, I would like to remind people that you may request for a 24 hour deadline extension if you feel it is necessary.
You have 23.5 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130719T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1&csz=1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 12:35:23 AM
Words words everywhere this game seems like an era ago
##Request Extension why wouldn't you do this automatically you terrible GM hurry up and give me Conqy
Whoever was wondering where I was, I was dealing with the fact that the site changed and thus I couldn't post shit. Give me a few moments, let me read and see why everyone else is jumping on Raikaria now.
Also, filling the thread with ten pages of questions? I don't think I did that in I Wanna Be the Sereliest. >_>;
##Unkill ##Kill: Validon
Nice try but I meant ~*~before that~*~ when we were actually able to post magical posts of love. Or hate if you're into that. You're either on Nyquil or you're an Innocent Child and the confirmed townies are the ones I make sure to nightkill the fastest. CHOO CHOO BABY. I am 110% committed to your murder right now and encourage everyone to hop on like it's donkey kong.
Okay, reading Raikaria town as of the moment. Seriously, if people are on Rai's case because of the way the vote on BBM was phrased, you've got to be shitting me. BT is looking more scummy but that's mainly from the "OH LOOK THE VOTE OBVIOUSLY IS COMING FROM SCUM BECAUSE OF GUT" thing he did when he first voted Rai, so I'm not going to vote for him yet. Seriously, though, I could tell it was a joke. So was my vote. =_=;

I believe BBM's confusion as well. I myself was confused when I got my role PM. However, that's not a clear in any way. Rai has a point about the ED1 thing: You misrepped the case. My vote for now stays where it is.
Since I am a charitable scumbag and like helping people dig their own holes, how does Raikaria telling a joke make him town? Everyone is mad at him for posting a questionable post, what about it strikes you genuinely enough that you would defend him? Holy shit this is so not like your usual self. You disagree with the majority for no obvious reason!

 :getdown:
RED ALERT. SET NIGHTKILL TO STRONGMAN. SEND IN THE NINJA!
:getdown:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 12:44:05 AM
preemptive apologies for quote wall

Vhaltz:There was extremely little else from the thread then people jokevoting. While -you- had been able to come up with stuff to vote people over, I think those things were completely reaching. (that's okay for the start of the game, but the main point here is there really wasn't anything else worth talking about IMO. Even your own wall-post there is mostly fluff and self-justification)

Quote from: Vhatlz
There's this idea we're discussing that he'd be prideful enough not to want to give off a -weak/confused- image of himself, which would make the post likelier to be a scum strategy for cred, but I haven't played against BBM until now so I figured I'd put this out there to see if we can get more input on this.
TRYING WAY TOO HARD

It is not possible to meta people this thoroughly with any hope of actual success, unless you are a prodigy. No offense meant, but D:

Quote from: Shadoweh
Serela that post, what the fuck is it. I get that it's the first thoughts that pop in your head, but I have no idea what you mean by Serious Banana's 'justified vote' and it sounds kind of like 'other people have explained it's justified so thumbs up!' Tell me if you're agreeing with other people or actually having your own thoughts.
...whaaaat?

Had anyone else even commented on Serious Banana's post...? *Completely mindboggled* Um, no, I said it was a justified vote because I thought it was a justified vote. I don't try to be complicated!

Quote from: BT
This also begs the question "why didn't Vhaltz think of this" and I'm leaning towards it being a towntell. (I mean, his recent posts has "town" scribbled all over them artistically anyway, but sure.)
agree 100%

Okay, I'm reading Vhaltz' later posts and please please please stop arguing the "BBM clearly trying to mindgame people by commenting on rolepm confusion" point into the ground. It does not have any legitimate logical weight to it. It's conspiracy-theory tier. You complain that BBM is practically handwaving it away and then using it as a reason to keep voting him, except of course he's handwaving it, because it doesn't make sense.

It's harder to actually get reads on people when they're busy being involved in an argument over a fluffy cloud case on them. :c

I'm tired from work and it's hard to concentrate on things that aren't Vhaltzo right now. I'll make another post before I go to sleep. >_>
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 12:44:49 AM
okay I guess that was less of a quote wall then expected because I got really tired partway through as "At-Work Mode" wore off
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 12:50:57 AM
Serela when are you going to stop voting me and put down a real vote CAN'T YOU SEE WE ONLY HAVE 23 HOURS LEFT?!?!
I didn't check if anyone else had commented on SB's vote. That doesn't really answer what was justified about it though. 
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 12:54:22 AM
shadoweh it's not my fault the game was interrupted mid-d1 ;_;

...the logic he was using made sense, hence it was justified?

Am I using this word wrong or does it not mean what you think it means
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 19, 2013, 12:55:08 AM
I'll read in the morning. 4:00 AM.

I thought this would be extended immediately.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 01:05:18 AM
Bah, I supose I can't expect a paragraph from you about it, but I'm putting you on Kyuubey watch young Sereley! Just talk about The Other Stuff(tm) I'm writing an even biggger post in the other tab.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 01:13:57 AM
I'm reading over the walls and the only thing I have determined so far is that Vhaltz isn't allowed to use my own posts against me okay. Also seconding Dan's post, I hope you appreciate the literal glazed eye headache reading this gives me. Seriously, "It doesn't and it just feels like something obvious is being presented in a way that it invalidates the case when it doesn't. This makes the case look weaker in the eyes of others if they don't bother to double-check whether or not the invalidation is valid in itself." Are you writing this like a boring legal document on purpose ;_;

I at least get the gist of your argument, and I'm surprised 'repeat something until people forget where they heard it was true' actually has a name. I don't think this is a bad case. I haven't decided if I agree yet.

It's also best not to meta me when I've only played one game on this site as each alignment. That's not much of a sample size or enough to know whether what I did as each alignment is something I do often. Rewrite wasn't a very good game for me either.

Your standards for me seem rather high and I'm not quite sure why. I've proved myself capable of bad decisions as town as well (deciding to clear Shadoweh in Rewrite completely off character).
But I was town in that game >_> Alot of the roles were based on flavah in that game actually, so your weird logic had basis. Not what I would point to as an example of what a terrible player you are. More importantly, does it matter? You seem conflicted about whether you think Vhaltz is The Enemy in your tone, so I don't see what you're gaining in having a drawn out wallpost argument with him instead of engaging in real scumhunting.

Raikaria: I can see why he thought you were doing it on purpose from the wording, it was kind of vague. Maybe you just naturally type that way and it invites knives?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 19, 2013, 01:18:58 AM
yeah extension please

Vhaltzotsuki- I really don't know what to say anymore. Yes, scum could fake a reaction for towncred, except since the confused reaction can come from both mafia and town, there is really no cred to be gained there in the first place. Yeah, your argument came rather early, but that doesn't mean that people can't answer whether or not they think there's towncred to be gained from it.

I gathered that BT didn't comment on it until after because answering a vote for someone else before they can do it themselves is generally bad play, as it prevents the question asker from getting reactions from the person who was asked the question.

What Dormio says is right. After Raikaria's first post where he voted me for "gut" he posted again saying that it was just gut. Gut is still a semi-serious reason. Saying later that it was just him poking fun at gut reasons is pretty suspicious. Again, I feel it plays into how Raikaria is making the initial vote to be something it wasn't, and him backtracking.

Except I don't think there is anything in Vhaltz's point. I'm not sure where to go, who to push, and where to start.

I'm usually pretty good at making someone try and stab at me, and then other people latch on that and then we get progress. Usually the one who attacked me being the scums.

I honest to god do not see how the bolded does not imply intention. When you MAKE someone try and stab at something, that's normally intentional.

I don't understand the reasons behind Validon's BT suspicion either.

@Shadoweh- Originally I thought that Vhaltzo was more scummy, but I'm inclined to agree he's town for now. I don't see why that means I shouldn't respond back to him, though.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 01:34:31 AM
Still here, just too tired to properly disect walls atm.

Eh, fuckit. I'll give it a go, I guess.

It's more Vhaltz didn't do it.  Vhaltz then thinks that because he is town, other townies would do the same as Vhaltz.  If someone did it whether it was to fish for cred or not, then they aren't doing something a townie would do, and therefore they are more likely scum.

This is pretty silly. If you use the reverse logic (people who arrive at the same conclusions as me are bound to be of the same alignment) then I'd be automatically reading shadoweh as town, right? And for the record I don't see "getting confused" as a non-townie thing.

Vhaltz's post (#43) seems very long winded and pretty waffly. There isn't really a lot in there about who is scum considering the size of the thing, and a lot of it is about definitions and defense (explaining some pretty simple stuff, we all know scum want to appear townie.) Also just replying with the first thing that comes to your head is actually a towntell since it shows that you really don't care how others think of you (as long as said content is reasonable of course) but doesn't say that other people are mafia for not doing it.

Not really happy with Raik dismissing everything that happened as just RVS shenanigans (and he kind of calls out BT on it but doesn't vote him either.)

ok it looks like the big walls re inbound so i'm tackling them in the morning when I feel actually awake

also extension gogogo
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 01:34:46 AM
up to #52 ftr
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 01:35:56 AM
BBM: Your answer just now to him was better because it tells what you were thinking related to the game, the quote I posted was spiralling the argument into gameplay arguments involving how you can't be meta'd (you're probably wrong) and all it does is make it sound like Vhaltz is dumb for trying to argue with you and he should stop trying. Not town or scum, just bad for trying. It's a negative argument style, similar to the argument as Creepy Richard. In my opinion when the argument stops being constructive and when you're fairly sure you're not arguing with The Bad Guys it's scummy to continue flailing at someone for attacking you, it's not how we win!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 01:39:54 AM
@Shadoweh: I was GONE for most of the day in real life and didn't have access to the internet, and then the site changed, so I still couldn't access the thread. So excuse me if I'm extremely late to the party, but I had no chance to post anything unlike everyone else here. I know what you're trying to do. You did it last game to me. And the answer's the same: Seriously, what the hell? And as for "disagreeing with the majority," I'm not going to immediately jump on a wagon. I didn't clear Rai, I just didn't agree with everyone's reasons for voting him.

@BBM: The BT suspicion is more or less because of jumping on Rai for the original post. That's it. Nothing else. So it's not really good reasoning. That's why I didn't vote for him. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 01:48:40 AM
This is pretty silly. If you use the reverse logic (people who arrive at the same conclusions as me are bound to be of the same alignment) then I'd be automatically reading shadoweh as town, right? And for the record I don't see "getting confused" as a non-townie thing.
Excuse me this is something you should do naturally kthx. And yes actually, the reverse logic is something you can use. We may not have our mafia quicktopic but we still connect on a hivemind level! Vhaltz's post is very focused on who the scum is, I wouldn't call it waffley at all. Waffley is when a post is almost contradictory in content, driving one way to the other, like a palm tree in the breeze. I wouldn't even call it defensive, he's not trying to defend his personal character, he's defending his case, it's different. Everyone wants to be Right.  :objection!:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 02:07:52 AM
Quote
Are you writing this like a boring legal document on purpose ;_;
That's funny, because "It feels like I'm reading a lawyer" was exactly what came to mind as I read those posts

I reread the game again but all I'm seeing is Vhaltz and people talking about rvs shenanigans (to be fair, rvs just ended)

Jumping on the ##extension bandwagon
because even though I love d1 ending faster, I'd like to feel as if we're actually able to make an effort to find a townie to lynch, I mean, uh, nightkill

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 19, 2013, 02:08:44 AM
Oh my god there are so many words yet none of them really interest me.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 02:08:56 AM
Quote
(to be fair, rvs just ended)
I sure am tired! RVS didn't "just end" but it's more that we lost 24 hours somewhere and this isn't what d1 would look like if we were actually 49 hours in.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 19, 2013, 03:00:57 AM
Shadoweh's Validon reasoning is basically an inactive vote in disguise. So what if he didn't make a serious post for the first 24 hours? That's not voteworthy. And why are you singling Validon out over it, when as far as I can remember, Raitaki didn't either?

Additionally, I don't really understand the second part of the vote. Both BT and you were voting Raikaria for the manner in which he voted me initially. Not everybody finds Raikaria suspicious for that, but I don't think it's a complete misrep of the wagon. Yeah, Validon stating that he's town over that is a bit far, but I don't find it scummy necessarily.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 03:04:59 AM
I think it's because she's trying to pull the same tactic as in the last game: Voting me to get a reaction out of me. I can tell she's not even really being that serious with the vote, too, so that gives me more reason to think that. I think I'm used to Shadoweh's antics by now. >_>;
As for Raitaki's vote, that was also not serious combined with a joke that I totally get.
Speaking of which, I'M SORRIES RAITAKI DO YOU WANT A FFV OR TOUHOU MOTHER LP INSTEAD? ;~;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raitaki on July 19, 2013, 05:01:16 AM
Oookay since I'm being roped into going to Disneyland tomorrow for at least half a day gonna try to dig up as much as possible tonight ;_;
Also voting yes for ##Extending the deadline.

Raikaria: Vhaltz's post where he first voted BBM was totally serious and had some content to work with, regardless of whether it was valid or not. Waving it off as an invalid vote looks like an attempt to dodge BT's questioning of his lack of response to it. Even after Vhaltz posted more and Shadoweh urged him to say something players, he still waved everything off as non-content then did nothing. It's possible to justify his sole focus on BBM afterwards as not having a better suspect, but the disregard of Vhaltz's case itches me.

Shadoweh: Errr okay, I'm seriously NOT getting a townread (as in one on our side) on her this time. While she was telling Raikaria to dig up something about peoplez and making use of D1, all she did was poking here and there without following up much or point out anything as scummy, except for Raikaria (cuz of :gut: and wording choices) and Validon (for....not asking questions). Given the stark contrasts between CHOOCHOO VOTE VALIDON and meta talk + lack of dirt on anyone else this looks like pretty much coasting to me. ##Kill: Shadoweh

also brb switching to phone
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 05:49:13 AM
I have 5 minutes

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

His wagon jump was the exact opposite of the hipster cases that town!Dormio usually does. He generally puts in effort to think outside the group and right now reads like he's trying to look like he's his usual hipster self when he's really just wagon jumping and going with the flow.

Haven't forgotten BBM, just no support for now I'll get back to him later.
Gotta run now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 19, 2013, 08:29:09 AM
Not got much free time atm and honestly there's not too much for me to comment on anyway.

Except RVS ended as soon as people started making up ~cases~ on my RVS Serela.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 19, 2013, 09:07:44 AM
His wagon jump was the exact opposite of the hipster cases that town!Dormio usually does. He generally puts in effort to think outside the group and right now reads like he's trying to look like he's his usual hipster self when he's really just wagon jumping and going with the flow.
Me? Hipster? What madness are you speaking of?
I'm doing what I always do, which is voting for whoever I think is most likely to be scum at this point.
I mean, do you disagree with me about how Raikaria handled his early votes? Do you think that his behaviour was not scummy? Care to tell me why I'm wrong?
If you don't feel like doing telling me these things, then I don't know what you plan to get at here.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 19, 2013, 09:12:31 AM
Vhaltzotsuki, I don't really like your focus on meta. Granted, in both cases there was more to the vote and you also made an attempt to explain what about the odd thing that was happening was scummy, but it still makes me sort of uncomfortable.

Raikaria's last post reads like an Appeal to Emotion and I don't like it. There's plenty for you to comment on. I don't think you actually responded directly to Dormio's vote on you, for one thing. You could also talk about what Shadoweh said about Validon, Vhaltzotsuki's Dormio vote, or what Raitaki said about you.

Vhaltzo/Mitsuki, do you guys mind if I shorten your name to VM? The full thing is a pain to write out every time tbh.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 10:14:26 AM
Shadoweh's Validon reasoning is basically an inactive vote in disguise. So what if he didn't make a serious post for the first 24 hours? That's not voteworthy. And why are you singling Validon out over it, when as far as I can remember, Raitaki didn't either?

Additionally, I don't really understand the second part of the vote. Both BT and you were voting Raikaria for the manner in which he voted me initially. Not everybody finds Raikaria suspicious for that, but I don't think it's a complete misrep of the wagon. Yeah, Validon stating that he's town over that is a bit far, but I don't find it scummy necessarily.
It's not in disguise <_< The answer as to why it's noteworthy is that it's Validon. To put it into perspective for you, Validon is JustPeachy. Just read the difference between then and now. I didn't read or care what Raitaki was doing, I don't compare people when I'm scumhunting other then to themselves.  I know what it looks like when someone is acting oddly out of character. The second part is that Validon tends to vote for majority wagons while agreeing with the hivemind. I think he's having trouble finding suspects and not moving his vote because he's On The Enemy Side. This isn't hard to understand here. To Validon: Sadly I'm not trying to get a reaction out of you today, I'm pretty sure you're Not On My Side, I hope you can appreciate the difference when I'm not trying to mess with you. Politely I request you aim the kill at yourself so I can get a better angle with the headshot.

Raitaki I'm sorry you got stuck with Validon as a Bad Guy Team buddy but voting me when I'm full of CONVICTION isn't going to save you. Accusing me of coasting after posting something like five wall posts, especially when you've posted half as much as me if I'm being generous, means you can fuck right off and die tomorrow.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 10:27:08 AM
So you think I'm acting out of "character"? Acting like a complete newbie and voting with the majority is my "character," then? Don't you think I could just be, I don't know, ACTUALLY TRYING TO IMPROVE MY GAME?! Seriously, Shadoweh, I'm not going to stay in newbtown forever. I have to get out at some point. I'm not going to just fling myself at big wagons thinking "welp, this looks good?" If you had actually read the entirety of the last game you would have seen that near the end I actually made my own decisions and my own opinions even if BBM had me convinced he was town. I'm still not taking your vote seriously either, especially when you say things like "full of CONVICTION." >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 10:36:07 AM
It means voting me for not trying isn't going to work when a blind person can see I'm laying out my feelings on my sleeve, including the cocky shades of the best Villain. I read the entirety of the last game, my favorite part was the speedlynch on the last day before Esuna could post. :thumbsup: You'll have to show me how this is you improving instead of playing wait and see if you want to convince me you're not just trying to hide. Tell me what you think of everything that's happened so far. Who's the town and who's the scum?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 11:21:21 AM
I honestly still think you're on my case because I'm not acting newbie enough to be considered "in-character." >_>;
Time for opinions before I have to go for a few hours (when I say scum from now on I mean the informed minority that has a town flavor, when I say town I mean the uninformed minority that has a scum flavor):

Raikaria: His initial vote doesn't tip me off as to anything right now. Currently reading null.
BT: Not sure what to think of him either. His sudden jumping on Raikaria I thought was scummy at first, but thinking back I can see it as town just jumping to conclusions. Null.
Affinity: Null to the infinity-degree.
Dormio: I noticed about how Dormio is somewhat sheeping Raikaria after having his vote on Shadoweh. While Shadoweh isn't really making me happy right now, that's suspicious. VM, even if he is using meta, has a point: That is suspicious. Leaning towards scum although I'm not entirely certain.
VM: Lots of meta I don't really know, so thanks for using it? Not sure what to think of him and her, so, null.
Raitaki: Hasn't posted much, but his most recent post looks like he's thinking. Not sure what to think. Null.
Serious Bananas: I seriously don't know what to think of him. His few posts don't really come across as particularly scummy, but it's too early to clear him. So null.
Serela: Not many posts either, but I do agree with what he said about everyone arguing about RVS stuff. Seriously guys, if I have to hear one more thing about Raikaria's initial vote on BBM I'm going to hurt someone.
ActionDan: I have no clue personally. I've kind of forgotten he's part of the game.
BBM: As was the case in the last few games, his posts have this townie air but knowing him I'm not willing to clear him. The only thing with him that angers me is somewhat twisting Raikaria's words somewhere back, hence my vote. Of course, at this point all of my opinions are weak, so I'm going to for now remove my vote until something of more note comes up other than silly RVS arguments.

##Unkill

Shadoweh: The same as always: I can't tell what the hell you are because of all of the obfuscation on your part. What are your opinions on anything else that has happened besides the stuff with me?

That's my opinions for now. I have to go for a few hours. When I'm back I'll probably read a little more. Of course, someone here is going to find my few hour absence suspicious and jump on me too, aren't they? >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 11:22:53 AM
For people wondering WHERE'S THE BEEF on everyone else:

My Favorite Scumpartners: Vhaltz, Uhm.. damn there isn't anyone else I would trust explicitly.
Probably don't need to bus: BT, Dan, Dormio, Bananas, Serela maybe?
Dan needs to stop being an MS hipster and vote someone seriously, with meaningful words in his post so I can mindlink with him
Dormio sounds.. normal, which is weird because it's Dormio (I could see him enjoying truly telling us he's looking to lynch the most obvious scum as he is the best townie, my role pm is green how can I be wrong?) HalfEdit: I think it's because of the random swearing with the Raikaria vote, Dormio doesn't get angry =.=
Bananas is kind of.. there. I don't mean that in a bad way, just quirky opinions that make me think he's a cool weirdo.
Serela needs to post more =_= The conversation with Vhaltz looked kind of good, but I'll be watching to see if you lurk through deadline again.
BT is the only one I don't have anything bad to say about, I don't think he ever screams an alignment to me, so I'm staying paranoidingly trusting.
Possibly mislynch victims: BBM, Raikaria
I can't place whether BBM is acting freely or not, he sounds logical enough, there's just a defensive tone throughout his arguments (including to people who aren't attacking him). I generally dislike when someone uses alot of I dislike, seems weird, without it being clear if you suspect the person you're doubting or not. For an example. BBM, in your first post, you said you disliked how Dormio was ignoring everything, then agreed with his case when he was voting the same person as you. Do you think Dormio's vote was good enough to get rid of your suspicion of him? Keep in mind the voting reason included 'I don't even know what the fuck'. :V You also ignored my reply directly to you (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998393.html#msg998393) about why you should stop arguing with Vhaltz (you haven't) and your tone implies that you suspect me, and him again, but once more you're not being explicit with your suspicions. You need to stop using 'I like/don't like' and start saying 'I suspect x because of' or 'I don't suspect x but they are doing y that is bad' or whatever equivalent. It's really A Bad Thing when someone words their posts in ways that can be taken either way (ironic since this is what you're voting Raikaria for!)
Raikaria, how do I put this. Getting something out of you besides fatalism seems to be like squeezing blood from a stone. Unhelpful people who get moody when they're suspected get lynched because no one likes dealing with a no-content guy. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998086.html#msg998086) is okay, but you need more this. I'm not averse to lynching someone that's not giving up content to lynch. That said I'd probably prefer someone else at this point.  You would never guess who it is...

Not that I don't want him to try to lurk a little and get better if he is town, and the offendedness is realistic enough, but I would be quite surprised if people really change that fast.

Raitaki doesn't get a place on the chart because I suspect him out of association and/or because oh my god he sucks. Piss off and bring in something with a better grade.

lolcut: I'm going to bed but I already made what you asked for with my POWERS
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 01:30:13 PM
I?m finally free for the weekend! Now I can write walls even more often, isn?t that nice?

Apology kinda
Okay so yes I was faking being So Very Seriously Convinced about my ED1 case on the confirmation post. It was the only thing in-thread that read potentially scummy so I went for it. That said, of course a case in the first few hours of game time is going to be grasping/reaching, but not posting it because of that wouldn?t have moved the game along at all, and pretty much everybody waving off the case as silly also means that the game has taken longer to move along as well. It?s RVS, yes, but you?re meant to take it seriously by faking conviction if necessary in order to move the game forward, or else we go nowhere. I guess being a bit Too Serious about it threw people off and it was my fault in the end, but that shouldn?t have even been a problem in the first place, sheesh. I shouldn't have needed to note this, but I have the feeling that if I don't everybody is going to disregard the rest of my BBM case and anything else I do just because the ED1 case was reaching, plus people might dislike me for my attitude outside the game and I don't really want that either.

BBM Case Revamped
Back on track. At least I got a few reactions from BBM and while I?m fine with the rest of his posts, his responses to my case read scummy as hell. I would like to draw a distinction now between my obviously grasping case earlier and what I got out his reactions to it.
 
BBM has insisted in being ?not that good a player?, likely to justify that he wouldn?t think of fabricating a reaction to the PM, this is contradicted by two things:

1.   Newer players tend to pay closer attention to the cases against them to argue against them. BBM reads like a confident player when handwaving the case against him without addressing much of it.
2.   BBM has admitted to have consciously abused Availability Cascade last game, and this is not a strategy that you would expect from ?not that good? players (@Serela: why disregard mind game theory when he has openly claimed to have done it before??).

What?s so scummy in this? Think, why would a good player, as town, try to appear worse than they are? They wouldn?t. The only reason he would?ve said this is because it?s there to try and make the ED1 case less believable.

He also argues that he wouldn?t abuse availability cascade now in a case against him because he apparently abused it as a last resort last game. I hope I don?t have to explain why this isn?t a convincing argument, but I will anyway: It?s just fluff words on the subject that don?t prove that he wasn?t seeking to abuse it now. I?m aware that proving the contrary would be hard as fuck and expecting that is unrealistic, but it?s the way he fluffed around it with self-meta that reads scummy to me.

Like I said before, aside from these reactions to my case everything else to his name so far seems quite pro-town. But players like BBM and BT will always read pro-town, which is why nobody should ignore them in favour of voting weaker players and instead read them harder. Being focused on reading BBM and BT who I figured would be hardest to read this game is why I haven?t quite gotten to read much on other players like Raikaria. I?ll get to that now.

Priorities and other stuffs
Since it might be confusing now to figure out just how scummy I think BBM is now after all that Serious As Hell Business before, I?ll say I think he has slight to moderate chances of flipping scum. Stuff in my head goes like this now.

BBM > BT (stuff I mentioned on him last night) >> Dormio (meta, he reads a lot different from Disgagea. I voted him over BT and BBM earlier this morning in hopes that somebody would make other Dormio meta comments to help me read him) > Other players that need to exist or that I have yet to read through > Serela > Validon.

Serela sounded like scum his first post but then I remembered how much he hates ED1 and the silly post is no longer that much of a tell. He doesn?t sound like breakfast in his recent posts either? and I was going to say he?s being somewhat being his voice of reason self that only rarely happens when he?s town, but I want to scold him because I don?t get why would you ignore BBM like that. Reads like Town!Serela for the most part.

Validon is still JustPeachy and his last ragey post just makes it seem even more likely that it?s town!Validon for me. Shadoweh forgot that while he didn?t jump on Raikaria which was the growing wagon, he was still sitting on BBM?s wagon which was at 3/7. Not a solid town read yet but still would not lynch for the time being.
Unsure whether Shadoweh was just faking conviction here as well or if she's scum seeking an easy target, I can?t get a read on her this game yet for some reason so I?ll just be rereading her along with the other players that are unmemorable or ??? in my head now. Haven't read the 3 cuts I got after I started posting. This post is enough of a wall for now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 01:30:45 PM
Oh and yes calling us "VM" is fine.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 01:48:08 PM
doing it for your first vote is fine, it's just that afterwords you went ~*~super serial~*~ and made big wallposts about it that were blugh to read and started pulling more people into your vortex of "what even is this"

Anyway you've already admitted you didn't take it too seriously so, moving on!

Quote
2.   BBM has admitted to have consciously abused Availability Cascade last game, and this is not a strategy that you would expect from ?not that good? players (@Serela: why disregard mind game theory when he has openly claimed to have done it before??).
I think I've already explained that the kind of mindgame you were seeing is something that doesn't have any kind of realistic basis :V First off, it's COMPLETELY REALISTIC for a townie... uh... mafia-ey... PERSON WE DON'T WANT TO LYNCH to have made such a confirmation post, and second even if it was mafia trying to fake it... no one would hand them any kind of cred for it >_> It's... just a confirmation post. Really.

I think you're also digging too deep into whether bbm is "a good player" or not. Besides, I think anyone would have done what he did last game. He had a rolecop result on him AND a cop guilty, what else is he supposed to do other then play them up and deny, deny, deny that he could possibly be anti-town due to them?

Quote
But players like BBM and BT will always read pro-town
*HEADDESK*

Anyway, I have to run to mcdonalds to get there in time for breakfast because MONOPOLY PIECES (and because most of their lunch menu is inedible and also expensive), so poof.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 01:55:40 PM
I think I've already explained that the kind of mindgame you were seeing is something that doesn't have any kind of realistic basis :V First off, it's COMPLETELY REALISTIC for a townie... uh... mafia-ey... PERSON WE DON'T WANT TO LYNCH to have made such a confirmation post, and second even if it was mafia trying to fake it... no one would hand them any kind of cred for it >_> It's... just a confirmation post. Really.

I think you're also digging too deep into whether bbm is "a good player" or not. Besides, I think anyone would have done what he did last game. He had a Roleclop result on him AND a cop guilty, what else is he supposed to do other then play them up and deny, deny, deny that he could possibly be anti-town due to them?

Serela the availability cascade isn't aimed at the confirmation post thing. It's aimed at the answers to the ED1 case where he disregards it and didn't address the case while repeating things that are pretty obviously logical but not proving the case wrong in a way that makes it sound like it proves the case wrong. Hence talking about "repeat something (a lie) enough and it'll become true".

The ED1 confirmation post part of the case is completely gone from my revamped case other than the fact that the truly scummy things in BBM's play come from replying to it.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 02:09:56 PM
I got distracted and totally thought that post was finished for some reason.

The thing with the constant denial is that while that might be done unconsciously as a last resort like you're trying to imply, he admitted to abusing the loophole in judgement consciously, so the change in situation doesn't make it any less likely that he'd do it again.

And that bit about BBM and BT is subjective but yeah, I find that they sound townie regardless of alignment (in BBM's case until something like cop results happen like D4 Richard, in BT's case I dunno but I don't remember ever seeing him get lynched as scum in the games I've read he was scum in).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 02:22:20 PM
mmm free chicken muffin
(in BBM's case until something like cop results happen like D4 Richard, in BT's case I dunno but I don't remember ever seeing him get lynched as scum in the games I've read he was scum in).
Barney in Psycho Prophecy immediately comes to mind (not that I'm trying to prove a point via counterexample, and I guess when I think about it in DEFCON I had to nuke scum!him out of nowhere to get him killed, but)

Okay, so let me go through this again. Your case on BBM is that he handwaved your confirmation post case, and that you think he's using Avaliability Cascade via this handwaving.

...the issue here is your case was legitimately handwavable. And no one really agreed with it, so there's no need for anyone to go as far as to try to discredit it via a method like that.

(I wish you weren't totally not alignment-we-don't-like looking so I could place my vote down somewhere cool)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raikaria on July 19, 2013, 02:27:24 PM
Except this game started up at a really bad time for me Shadoweh. I don't have the time to put in much ~effort~. I was half tempted to actually /out when we hit capacity at this time, but that would be a dick move to everyone else involved. It's a busy time for me, I thought this game would start like 2 weeks before.

In fact, I'm gonna be missing two whole days anyway, and that's before the other stuff. I'm simply too committed atm for Mafia. At the time I signed up, it was fine. 2 weeks later? No.

Requesting Replacement



Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 19, 2013, 02:28:34 PM
so hopefully affinity's power just went out for a really long time and he's totally okay and will be back by d2 guys
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 19, 2013, 02:31:28 PM
This post might be weird to read because I had some ground to cover and made paragraphs for every player I addressed, which means I had to "update" them several times through.

I think the one thing that would bother me about BBM's Raikaria vote is how he tags along a weak reasoning such as "he's not going after BT/Shadoweh/me?". Felt like something that was added due to a scum agenda (making the vote feel better) over a town agenda (differentiating scummy and not scummy). I can kind of see the vibe people are getting (scum tagging along to existing reasoning [mine], having to provide *something* more lest they seem weak). It's a weak vibe but still a notable one. Something I want to do is read into whether BBM was actually scum-mily misrepping Raikaria with "backtracking" or it's really something he finds scummy and it's reasonable that he sees Raikaria's behavior the way he does. Stay tuned?

I find that badtown!Raikaria is easiest to read over time. It's all in the scumhunting quality. So far he's presented no quality scumhunting (not even a tiny fragment) and that's in line with his scum meta, but I'm ready for the long haul. Actually no. There is one tiny fragment. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998086.html#msg998086) I think I feel a bit better about Rai-kun.

Validon doesn't seem to want to read into my posts - his assessment of my vote is horrendously inaccurate. Also curious why he thought him saying "I believe BBM's confusion" would be a clear, immediately needing to clarify that it isn't a clear in any way. His later posts don't present scumhunting and I'm inclined to trust Shadoweh's assessment of his character (she's played with him recently + she is likely town here). Now I'm reading his latest post and calling bullshit on "thinking back I can see it as town just jumping to conclusions" because if you were to actually read my posts you'd notice how wrong you were to begin with. Instead this is classic "don't want to deal with this guy who looks town" weak waving. The entire post is a "nothing" post with an ugly suspicion on Dormio that he doesn't even bother to pursue.

##Unkill Raikaria, ##Kill Validon

Raitaki's post makes me think town (gut sadly) but I disagree with classifying Shadoweh's activities as "pokes". Plus it's true there's a notable difference between "110% conviction" on Validon and everything else but it's in line with her character. I see Shadoweh disagrees with this case as well and her reaction is probably all summed up to that.

Something about SB's comments on Vhaltzotsuki bug me but even if I find it I doubt it'd be something big.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 19, 2013, 02:31:42 PM
RE Vhaltzotsuki:

"Chipping in later" meant that I was deliberately postphoning the reveal of whatever I had in mind. If you're reading through past games anyway, this is actually something I do often early in D1. Revealing what I thought could be a towntell wrt your slot would have meant possibly halting the main discussion going on at the time - I wanted to see who thought you might be scummy and why before putting a stop to it. The moment BBM brought up what I had in mind is the moment where this became pointless and I "chipped in".

chip in
vb (adverb) Informal
1. to contribute (money, time, etc.) to a cause or fund
2. (intr) to interpose a remark or interrupt with a remark

I'm not sure what I think of BBM aside from what I already said. I honestly don't see much to reap from his "I'm confused" post. I don't think smarttown!BBM would have *definitely* avoided posting that as you say. I think it's behavioral, and since none of us know BBM's behavior all that well I don't see this going places.

Uh, no, wait, actually, SB does. He should tell us what he thinks.

RE your recent posts:

I haven't read them yet! I'll get these two posts in first. I did notice you talking about my past scum games though. Try Adorable Game of Mafia feat. the MYLO of sugar spice and everything horrible. Barney in Psycho Prophecy isn't a great example because it was my second game of mafia ever.

So uh yeah reading from #100 now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 19, 2013, 02:34:49 PM
Ugh. I'll do something after I go to sleep.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 02:35:01 PM
...the issue here is your case was legitimately handwavable. And no one really agreed with it, so there's no need for anyone to go as far as to try to discredit it via a method like that.

This was not as painfully obvious as it is now back when BBM posted. BT and Shadoweh where withholding judgement back then.

Also I didn't get much after a quick Dormio ISO so my vote goes back on BBM.

##Unkill
##Kill: BBM

There was a small thing though. Dormio, why is Shadoweh still so lynchable that you'd barely vote Raikaria over her when so convinced that Raikaria is scum?

Cuts, reading while I continue rereading.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 19, 2013, 02:52:17 PM
Oh Shadoweh, your faith in me will probably be rewarded by a horse-head, it's like what mafia give to each other right?

QWERTY.  because I can't post now and STOP THE WALLS OMFG.  That said ##unvote.

I get the feeling Serela is town this game.  based only on style of posts.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 19, 2013, 03:19:47 PM
Validon doesn't seem to want to read into my posts - his assessment of my vote is horrendously inaccurate. Also curious why he thought him saying "I believe BBM's confusion" would be a clear, immediately needing to clarify that it isn't a clear in any way.

This is totally the towntell you were using on me -not so well-, though. You said that my not considering that confusion could arise from both alignments' PM was a towntell, while I had considered that idea and simply disregarded the possibility of scum posting their confusion in-thread genuinely because I figured they wouldn't want to risk slipping. Validon here just sees BBM's confirmation post as a towntell just because he was also confused and he's town, I'm pretty sure he just associated those two ideas and didn't consider the possibility of informed minority PMs also being potentially confusing.

If not he must've been coached, because even if he had read your towntell thing and tried to emulate it I don't think he'd manage to fake a townslip quite so well in his third game (sorry about implying newbieness Validon, I'm not trying to poke fun at you for it).


Reread stuffs:
The way that Shadoweh seemed to immediately started to sheep BT after his Raikaria vote (by voting Raikaria and seconding his town read on me even though she was implying I was scum being self-conscious a little earlier) and how BT seems fine with leaving his vote in the hands of Shadoweh's meta knowledge reads like a weird buddy thing considering that they haven't addressed each other much. Just a weird gut feeling unsure if scummy.

Raikaria was being hard-headed and prideful about his ways in hunting scum by letting them jump on his wagon etc. I don't agree with his first post being scum and don't think the backtracking in its own necessarily makes him scum- My slight townread on him is more of a gut thing because I can't really argue that he hasn't done anything scummy, it just feels like I'm reading weak townie who gets caught up in bad situation who turns into lynch fodder like what happened throughout pretty much all of Disgagea mafia. All in all I wouldn't be too surprised if I were wrong, I'll have to look further into the slot once a replacement comes in. I also just noticed that I was postponing reading into him so much from my focusing on the harder-to-read-players that I forgot to mention him in my Scum-o-meter.

Dan throwing out town reads before he even finishes reading the thread properly reminds me of town!Dan but he needs to post something that isn't contentless. I still can't read Shadoweh wtf and Serious Bananas is null. Was going to say something about Raitaki but it was reading too far into the post and it's still null, post moar.



HAVE MORE WALLS TO READ DAN I LOVE YOU.

And now I think I'll go do something else for a few hours instead of checking on mafia every 15 minutes because otherwise I'll end up filling D1 with posts like I did in Chelsea and the Seven Devils, I really like playing mafia but I don't want to make everything harder to read for people like I did back there.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 19, 2013, 03:54:00 PM
Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Not Voting: Affinity, Walidon98, Action Dan (3)

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
Deadline has been extended by 24 hours.
There are 31.5 Hours left in the night. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 19, 2013, 04:01:08 PM
Conqueror Replaces Raikaria
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 19, 2013, 04:09:18 PM
(http://motkchan.shrinemaiden.org/rpg/src/1374146099054.png)

S'up scrubs. Gimme a few minutes to skim the thread real quickly; I wasn't planning on waking up in 6 hours anyway right????
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 19, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
Okay, I started reading and my eyes glazed over. You people are insane. Let's try this instead.

BBM, you say awfully little of consequence for a person with so many words. The crux of your content is all about Raikaria this Raikaria that, but what stands out to me is that you've taken everything Raikaria has done and spun it in the scummiest light possible. I don't see any evidence you've tried to consider his actions and think about whether they're town or scum; you've made your conclusion already and are fitting your arguments to arrive at that conclusion. Raikaria makes a post saying he hasn't got much free time and BBM dismisses it as Appeal to Emotion (ignoring that town can appeal to emotion too). Backtracking schmacktracking. Raikaria is attacked for his gut read and tries to downplay it (see past examples of Raikaria town doing dumb things in early game and getting attacked for them) and suddenly he's backtracking and that's the scummiest thing ever? So why wouldn't Raikaria!town do something like that?

But enough about Raikaria. The other thing that's bothering me about you, BBM, is that I can't find the train of thought in your posts. Take this, for instance.
I don't like how Dormio doesn't try to make a judgement on the consequences of being tryhard. Do you think that it's tryhard in a townie or scummy way? I also don't really like how you're ignoring most of what's going on, while continuing to talk about not-serious stuff. 
BBM's next mention of Dormio is this
What Dormio says is right. After Raikaria's first post where he voted me for "gut" he posted again saying that it was just gut. Gut is still a semi-serious reason. Saying later that it was just him poking fun at gut reasons is pretty suspicious. Again, I feel it plays into how Raikaria is making the initial vote to be something it wasn't, and him backtracking.
Where's the follow-up on the original statement? Stuff like this is where I get the feeling you're just making up posts as they come; it doesn't read genuine to me. BBM, I want two things from you: a follow up on your original Dormio suspicion and what's become of it now, and an explanation of why you think Raikaria is scum and why Raikaria is so scummy at this stage of Day 1 that I can't see suspicions of any other people in your recent ISO.

##Kill BBM

More in a bit, I hate you all.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Affinity on July 19, 2013, 04:33:31 PM
omg i can't believe i totally forgot about mafia.

will reread soon.

sorry guys.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 19, 2013, 05:05:37 PM
Welcome back Affinity!  :)

Dan, gimme something so I can know this ain't a Shirley Temple rerun. Where are your reads, like at all?

At first I was going to chew Shadoweh out here for not making any sense, but after reading Validon a few more times I see what she's getting at. The biggest problem with Validon is that all his opinions basically boil down or "slightly scummy I dunno" (Dormio and BBM) or null (everyone else). Shadoweh wasn't really wording things well when she says that Validon acts like a complete newbie and votes with the majority. The main problem here is that if we compare Validon's play here to JustPeachy, Peachy had no problem giving out reads, even if they were very go-with-the-flow and a bit rash at times, but overall he wasn't afraid to vote and argue with people. In this game, he's given us a wall of nulls and nothing concrete, which I could see as newbscum afraid to stir the waters. So, I guess I could go for a Validon lynch too. BBM and Validon also work well together, aww yeah D1 scumpairings.

Validon, if you're town, skip the nulls and give us who you think is scummy and who you think is townie, not a list of what looks like the kind of busywork I put out when I was newbscum. Let's start here. You said that your points against BBM boil down to silly RVS arguments against Raikaria, but if that's the case, what do you think of BBM's current case on Raikaria (afaict it's past just RVS now), and why is it worth dropping BBM over if you don't have any other scumreads?
I'd also want to know why you're suspicious of Dormio over a meta point brought up by someone you're null on, and why you single out Dormio for metaing out of everyone else (because iirc Vhaltz certainly didn't limit himself to Dormio). Similarily, I want to know why you're singling out Dormio for sheeping on Raikaria when there are a bunch of other people as bad or worse than him in terms of content.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Affinity on July 19, 2013, 05:08:27 PM
Vhaltz is being tryhard, a bit noisy since I don't agree with his premises, and his assumptions on what a good and not so good player does.  Isn't it subjective.  Reaction tests are also dubious from so long ago.  So meta-ey I don't think I can extend my sphere of understanding onto his vote and his reasons

BBM I remember harping on town!him a lot about his side-suspicions that seem to go nowhere.  I'm not so ready to implicate him for that anymore.

This is only like 15% of my normal town self so please stay tuned.  Let me say as a preliminary that I don't like the Validon votes at all, and that I don't think scumbuddies would allow him to backtrack on reads and stuff.  I find it hm that BT doesn't like him for not reading his posts and coming to a sudden epiphany, when his reportery posts plainly shows that he has not been following the game very well despite trying (all null).  Expecting too much maybe?  I'll go with BT and elaborate more tomorrow morning.

##Kill: BT

ninja: eh it seems that Validon has meta that makes his current conduct strange?  ill think about it tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 19, 2013, 05:14:52 PM
Affinity, it's from an anon game so it's not perfect, but here (http://mafia.getonpictochat.com/index.php?action=profile;u=6;area=showposts;start=135). I agree that otherwise it could just be standard newbie confusion but in light of his most recent game it's a big change in how he gets and develops his reads. I'm wavering a little when I look at his first game in Rewrite Mafia so that's partially why I prefer BBM atm.

On BBM, I didn't actually read Rewrite Mafia that closely so I might take a look at that tomorrow if you have time, but you think his behavior now lines up with his play there?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 19, 2013, 05:22:10 PM
Raitaki needs to post sense (why are you voting Shadoweh for you not getting a townread on her, why does that set her apart from everyone else you don't have a townread on; looks like you're just posting words to fill your vote) and Serela needs to do something other than defend BBM from Vhaltz's confirmation post DAY 1 STRONG CASE because it's an easy thing for Serela to do as either alignment.

Dormio, the laws of nature dictate that you're not allowed to vote me now that I've replaced in for Raikaria. Get dunked.  :smug:

If I post anymore here I'm not going to wake up in time for work tomorrow today. See you in 24 hours ish.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 05:55:00 PM
Conqueror, when it comes down to Dormio, it was basically something that caught my eye while I was reading. I was also somewhat rushing too, because I needed to leave. So like most if not all of my other opinions, I'm not entirely certain he's scum either.
Affinity is right on the mark that I haven't followed the game that well. There's a lot of content to go through and I skimmed through a lot of it. It's not because of an unwillingness to play, but rather from the fact that I've had to rush the reading in some cases. Hence I've missed some stuff.
Affinity, to explain the meta thing, the last two games I've been really rash in my opinions, more or less agreeing with other people and not providing much reasoning of my own. The fact that I went against the Raikaria wagon somehow has made Shadoweh go "huh, what the fuck?" despite the fact I was, at the time, on the BBM wagon. I practically sheeped that and somehow that got lost over the Raikaria thing. I'm not entirely sure if it was just an oversight on Shadoweh's part or she was trying to come up with an excuse to vote me.
Do realize that because I am not on the Raikaria wagon, I'm not going to vote you either. You're also right when it comes to Raitaki: He's posted so little that I have no idea what to think of him.
As for BBM, I did notice how he was spinning Raikaria's posts in scummy ways before. To be honest I don't exactly know why I unvoted him. I think that slipped my mind when I was making my big opinion post which did end up being a lot of nulls for no reason. Being in a rush + remembering what people have done = BAD DECISIONS HO!

##Kill: BBM

inb4 VALIDON Y U VOTE BBM AFTER UNVOTE SO QUICK WAT DA FUQ?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 19, 2013, 06:17:37 PM
First off, I gotta go somewhere soon so this post might be rushed and will most likely not answer everything. I'll probably also be gone for most of the rest of the day.

Anyways, I rarely speak in terms of "Player X is suspicious", unless I'm summing up my read on somebody. Most of the time I prefer "I dislike this thing that Player X is doing" because my overall read on someone is based on an aggregate scumminess of all their posts. I can dislike one thing and like another thing that someone is doing.

WRT me not following up on Dormio- what was there to follow up on? It was literally in Dormio's very next post after I said I thought he was ignoring stuff that he posted opinions, and I happened to agree with them. As for my overall thoughts on him, what he has posted, I think is okay, but I still think it's quite narrow. That one post that I said I liked is, I think, his only real content post. So I'm still somewhat suspicious, but that doesn't mean that I can't agree with what he said about Raikaria.

Yeah, Raikaria said he was busy in one of his last posts before subbing out. That's not why it was an appeal to emotion. It was an appeal because he was like "RVS ended as soon as people started misrepping me", which had a whiny tone to it that I didn't like. I'll apologize in postgame if I'm wrong (for whatever that's worth) but I cannot see how I misrepped Raikaria early on, I really can't. Earlier, I bolded the section of the post where he said that he was good at MAKING people take a stab at him. That implies intention to me, and then first saying it was a gutread, then defending it as nothing more or less than a gutread, and then saying it was just a joke, sounds all over the place to me in a way that I think is scummy. And yeah, BT, I think backtracking to defend yourself is scummy and I vote people for it.

About me trying to make out that I'm a worse player than I actually am- I'm not saying I'm a bad player, or a new player. I'm experienced enough to know strategies and lingo like Availability Cascade, but that doesn't mean I can't make mistakes, and it legitimately confused me that from the get go, VM was placing me under such high standards, where a post saying I was confused was enough for a vote that at the time, VM was making out to be very serious. I don't get his logic regarding me, but I think he's probably town if only because people were finding him town for his long, rambly, and stubborn cases against me, and he just took back large chunks of his case as one large ploy to get out of RVS. I don't think scum would just throw away towncred like that.

I dislike how Shadoweh is like "Validon made mistakes in his last game, so he's not improving". Okay, he didn't improve in his last game. Why does that mean he can't be getting better in this game? She asks him to show how he's improved, but she's literally on his case for NOT sheeping and wagoning. Isn't that a case just there of him improving? As for me voting Raikaria for saying things that could be misinterpreted- that's not why I'm voting him.

That being said, Validon's listpost was completely useless as it basically said everyone except one or two people were nullreads. It was a huge bunch of fluff.

It's like evening now in Britland and I talked to SB for a while in GMT morning, so I know he was here today. Post more dude.

More when I come back at night.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Raitaki on July 19, 2013, 08:42:23 PM
Lunch break and popping in to say that I'm trying to negotiate to be able to stay home for the rest of the day
Also cousins expressed interest in going tomorrow to so just consider me V/LA for like 36 hours I guess? >_> After that I should have plenty of internet time for this
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 10:10:30 PM
My case isn't that 'Validon is not making mistakes' , it's more like 'Validon has been replaced by a secret bear, let's see if anyone notices.' Saying that I said he's not improving is also putting words in my mouth. I clearly don't believe that he would lurk without saying much about what's going on as Our Side, it's like he doesn't want to be involved in the game. If there's one thing I've given him credit before it's his ~*~motivation~*~ and right now his only motivation is to call me crazy for poking him. :V Conq immediately said everything I did more eloquently (even the BBM-Dormio thing aaaaa <3 )

Affinity sounds like he just woke up, in my head he has curlers in his hair, huge bags under his eyes and a mug of black coffee as he's posting. I will at least reply that for Validon to backtrack on reads he would have had to make them in the first place.

Raitaki what the hell there are less then 36 hours left in Day 1.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 10:11:14 PM
Hey I'm back way later than I said I would be but who cares

I never said it's usually the first ones. I actually planned to wait a bit longer before reacting to votes on me, since usually it's not the ones who jump first. The early jumpers are usually the town, because I've done something slightly silly. Those people are scumhunting. It's the sharks that come in later, once there is a drop of blood in the water.

Besides, how often do I *not* get ED1 wagoned? You may not know BBM, but it's kinda a regular occurrence for me to get ED1 wagon'ed. It even happened in Sereliest where I was Romney. I'm just *really* bad with ED1.

I don't think the whole early/late thing matters much in RVS/barely out of RVS stage of the game, since there isn't a lot to go off of and votes are weak in general, so scum can switch around easily without evoking much suspicion.

Complaining about getting wagoned in ED1 isn't going to make us stop doing it, not really sure what the point of that part of your post was.

There was more to this post and I kind of bugs me but I can't figure out what it was so I'm skipping past it for now.

I honest to god do not see how the bolded does not imply intention. When you MAKE someone try and stab at something, that's normally intentional.

I read it in a kind of sarcastic tone so either BBM didn't or he's kind of twisting Vhaltz's words (sorry but remembering your full name is kind of annoying so lol) which I don't like. Leaning towards the latter possibility.

I'm perfectly happy with not being around at LYLO. I've been around at LYO so not-often that I'm probobly as likely to screw the town as Serela.

Not only is this a pretty massive overreaction to the amount of votes on him (wasn't even that far into day 1 if you count the extension) this defeatist attitude really bugs me. Reads as either apathetic town or mafia coasting, neither of which are good for the town.

oh my goodness the walls.

my last post had mafia as town and town as mafia btw.

I will continue to use that convention because brain is wired that way.

Don't like how Dan dropped in to just say this without giving any reads/opinions on the game after not posting for quite some time.

Okay, reading Raikaria town as of the moment. Seriously, if people are on Rai's case because of the way the vote on BBM was phrased, you've got to be shitting me. BT is looking more scummy but that's mainly from the "OH LOOK THE VOTE OBVIOUSLY IS COMING FROM SCUM BECAUSE OF GUT" thing he did when he first voted Rai, so I'm not going to vote for him yet. Seriously, though, I could tell it was a joke. So was my vote. =_=;

I believe BBM's confusion as well. I myself was confused when I got my role PM. However, that's not a clear in any way. Rai has a point about the ED1 thing: You misrepped the case. My vote for now stays where it is.

cut by bbm screw you too dude

Don't like Vhaltz's #69 since he seems to be absolutely sure that BBM is scum trying to get towncred and absolutely ignoring the fact that BBM might be a townie who just got confused (I did too, does that make me scum?) and I agree with BBM that there isn't even towncred to be gained then, so yeah.

Keep getting distracted by other stuff (screw you skype/sf), gonna make myself a drink and hopefully power through the rest (yell at me if I don't)

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 10:12:10 PM
oh, just noticed the time of bbm's post (just saw it in the recent posts and didn't check it doop) so no i wasn't making that post for 5 hours, I'm not THAT bad at focussing
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 10:16:17 PM
SB, Raikaria has been replaced by Conqueror, he's probably not going to answer your calls anymore. :< BT asked you specifically what your read on BBM is considering your experience with him. Specifically:
I'm not sure what I think of BBM aside from what I already said. I honestly don't see much to reap from his "I'm confused" post. I don't think smarttown!BBM would have *definitely* avoided posting that as you say. I think it's behavioral, and since none of us know BBM's behavior all that well I don't see this going places.

Uh, no, wait, actually, SB does. He should tell us what he thinks.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 10:24:27 PM
Wait, you're saying that you think I don't want to be involved? Look, Shadoweh, my schedule is all out of whack. I've been trying to post when I can. I haven't lost interest in the game and I'm not lurking. I'm just on at bad intervals in your mind and the all day field trip I took two days ago just happened to coincide with not only the MoTKchan thing, but with a significant portion of Night 1. I wasn't able to post for at least a day.
By the way, Serious Bananas posted the quote where I gave my reasoning on BBM. How I forgot that reasoning when I made my opinion post that's basically a whole lot of "I have no idea what to think," I have no clue. Here is my reasoning again:

Quote
I believe BBM's confusion as well. I myself was confused when I got my role PM. However, that's not a clear in any way. Rai has a point about the ED1 thing: You misrepped the case. My vote for now stays where it is.

This is based off of one of Raikaria's earlier posts, #63 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998145.html#msg998145) to be exact.

At this point, I'm just kind of shaking my head at Shadoweh because of this whole "lol why you no post for so long" thing. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 10:25:14 PM
Well. Not there yet but I'm still gonna pick at stuff that Rai posted that I didn't like, even if he's not there to answer because I'm like that. I'm not at the point that BT asked for my BBM read yet, and I don't think it'd be good to give a finite read while I've still got a few pages to read. I'm pretty much null on him right now, aside from that one point I had in my last post. Probably worth noting that I'm not really good at metaing people. The only scumtell of BBM I really remember all that well is him preemptively asking questions to people before they've had a chance to respond to new information (like a flip or something.) Continuing reading now.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 10:25:37 PM
Also everyone should just call me SB it's way easier
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 10:28:00 PM
Also, SB reminded me of something: What the hell happened to ActionDan? Seriously, he's done like nothing this whole game and the quote SB posted irks me as well. ActionDan, where are you and what's your opinion on the current arguments circulating around?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 10:29:14 PM
Also Raitaki. That's two people now that have just kind of slipped into the background while the rest of us have been arguing.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 19, 2013, 11:31:17 PM
Yoshino's post #68 comment about Vhaltz tryharding doesn't really tell us what he thinks of him, he seems to be okay with him even though he disagrees with the vote. Elaborate?

pedit: validon apparently isn't ready because shadoweh JUST mentioned that rai subbed out, not sure if it's suspect or he's just being dumb

Excuse me this is something you should do naturally kthx. And yes actually, the reverse logic is something you can use. We may not have our mafia quicktopic but we still connect on a hivemind level! Vhaltz's post is very focused on who the scum is, I wouldn't call it waffley at all. Waffley is when a post is almost contradictory in content, driving one way to the other, like a palm tree in the breeze. I wouldn't even call it defensive, he's not trying to defend his personal character, he's defending his case, it's different. Everyone wants to be Right.  :objection!:

urk not waffly, I meant fluffy/filler

Yoshino's #86 is pointless and he doesn't even seem like he follows it up with anything of actual worth.

wait there are (were) two people named rai(something) in this game
this is annoying
it also means that validon can read, nvm

Raitaki's post #90 isn't a good vote for shadoweh imo, it's like, "shadoweh hasn't talked about how she (is shadoweh a she?) suspects people other than the people she's voting for.)" I felt like I was kind of townreading her earlier so this might be part of the reason for it, and telling people to get content isn't a bad thing.

Vhaltz's #91 is kind of an icky vote too since it seems to be pretty much entirely meta apart from the wagon hopping thing which isn't really a major point imo since he's changed his vote once up to this point

having to figure out who dormio is gave me an idea, can someone give me a nickname list or something so I don't get confused on people?
oh fuck i spy 3 massive walls of text one after another why

Validon's #98 is really bad since it's essentially a listpost that sugarcoats the fact that he has nullreads on 80+% of the game and in some cases I can't even read what he's saying. The empty unvote is pretty bad too, right now I'm thinking about throwing my vote on him.

ignoring #100 for now since it's a massive wall that i can't concentrate on (what the fuck me it's only midnight) but serela's criticisms of it 2 posts later seem fair at a glance

The ED1 confirmation post part of the case is completely gone from my revamped case other than the fact that the truly scummy things in BBM's play come from replying to it.

this implies that it was a weak point that you shouldn't have pursued in the first place and I don't like it (also damnit serela now i want mcdonalds)

actually sorry to leave you all hanging again but I just want to sleep and sort this shit out in the morning, for now my BBM vote is the same as it has been and i'm not really sure why people are townreading Vhaltz?

##Unvote
##Vote: Validon


Like I said I would.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 19, 2013, 11:39:15 PM
pedit: validon apparently isn't ready because shadoweh JUST mentioned that rai subbed out, not sure if it's suspect or he's just being dumb

*faceplam* I was taking about RAITAKI, not RAIKARIA. I know Raikaria subbed out. And you say I'm not ready. >_>;

actually sorry to leave you all hanging again but I just want to sleep and sort this shit out in the morning, for now my BBM vote is the same as it has been and i'm not really sure why people are townreading Vhaltz?

So wait, if your BBM vote is the same as it has been, why vote me then? I know my list was bad, but it sounds more like you want to vote BBM yet can't. Um... explanation?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 19, 2013, 11:55:27 PM
Dormio is Yoshino, if you look under the really cute hooded girl his nickname is 'Dormio Ergo Sum'. Everyone else is using regular names p sure
And Shadoweh is a girl despite Neko's propaganda. People are 'town'reading Vhaltz because otherwise they would have to read his posts he has an obvious interest in getting The Bad Guys, it's more like how could he not be on our side?

I'm watchingish but will be busy for a few hours and if I get caught posting in the mafia they'll remove all my fingers >.>
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 12:02:17 AM
Updating to say I'm kind of waffling on Validon after reading recent posts and Mitsuki popping back into the QT after spending the whole day out at a con.

The thing is, though, I had an unpleasant gut feeling with the way the first few Validon votes popped up, Shadoweh seemed to be faking anger and conviction to push the case and that still seemed fine at that point of the game when stuff was still on its way out of the RVS-content transition, but then she proceeds to stick to the case all the way to now. So Shadoweh is just -??? can't quite read-, which isn't that bad, but then there's the way BT jumped on Validon as well that really made me go what. His vote irked me before because of the weird thing with Shadoweh, now it strikes me as outright scummy but I can't seem to put why into words. Affinity seems to get the same impression with the Validon votes but what I feel about BT's vote is different from what he seems to be going on about in his vote.
Mitsuki and I are both changing our minds on him back and forth from town to scummy and it doesn't look like we'll reach a conclusion before she leaves again. For the time being I don't really like/trust the wagon on him, plus weak town are easy mislynch targets etc.


Also, I'm thinking I might support an ActionDan lynch if I wake up tomorrow morning and there's no new posts by him. I'm unsure how pressed for time he is but at least Raitaki is keeping us up to date with his IRL troubles to get back at us. It's just really meh to be 48 hours into the day and see that Dan hasn't even attempted to scumhunt yet. One would figure that he would think lurking is Not That Good An Idea when this was a constant in his last scum game, regardless of what he rolled this game, so what is with the inactivity?

My eyes keep closing on their own so time for sleep.
Cut by SB. Blergh. Okay I'll read it real quick since it's just a bunch of short sentences.

Seems like you're just taking shots at me for being wordy by calling it fluff and I can't tell what you think of my alignment or anybody else's even if you're also talking about them like Validon, you might want to condense your cases by person you're addressing rather than going by chronological order to make it easier for people who have already gone through the thread a long time ago.

Quote
this implies that it was a weak point that you shouldn't have pursued in the first place and I don't like it (also damnit serela now i want mcdonalds)
You might just understand this if you decide not to conveniently ignore #100 and read at least the very first sentence in the very first paragraph in it. It's bad that you're implying you think I'm scummy when you don't seem to be willing to read your own scumread.
I don't like this but I'll postpone judgement in case this is just an OMGUS train of thought that isn't being suppressed in my brain due to being too tired. Would like to see what other people think of this -not reading your own scumread- point just in case I'm still feeling unclear about it tomorrow morning.

Anyway if over half your beef on me is going to be on fluff you might as well put the effort into bolding the parts of my posts that are objectively irrelevant/contentless and weigh the ratio of content vs fluff.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 12:12:24 AM
Hi.

Anyway, I know there were things I wanted to respond to before I went to sleep last night so let me go find it.

There was a small thing though. Dormio, why is Shadoweh still so lynchable that you'd barely vote Raikaria over her when so convinced that Raikaria is scum?
Oh, here it is. And that reminds me, since Raikaria is gone and I doubt that I can get any form of agreement to lynch the slot anyway.
That and I never want to lynch Conq ever despite the fact that he always seems to be in the opposite faction to me.
##Unkill RaikariaConqueror
##Kill Shadoweh

First of all, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997897.html#msg997897).
In particular, this part:
You shouldn't make decisions on what to say because you think it'll make you look townie, Vhaltz, only the townies need to care about being good little boys. You're not a good little boy, are you?
It's like, a coaching and telegraphing in one combo.
This gives Shadoweh a reason to shift her vote later onto Vhaltz if it looked like a wagon would pick up for some reason and she could simply cite this as her reasoning which would also possibly absolve her of bandwagoning if necessary.
Of course, since there isn't any support for a Vhaltz wagon, Shadoweh drops this completely.
I mean if you look here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998045.html#msg998045), Shadoweh's moved to justifying Vhaltz's actions for him. What's up with that?
Also, if you look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998350.html#msg998350) where Shadoweh blasts Validon, she actually only points out some logical fallacies that Validon has made. Nowhere does Shadoweh mention how bad logic = scum.
The next couple of posts that Shadoweh makes doesn't have her pushing her scumreads at all.
No. Instead, Shadoweh prods (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998360.html#msg998360) Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998372.html#msg998372) for content and then just defends herself for a while.
Shadoweh's next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998578.html#msg998578) where she actually starts talking about her scumpick again basically boils down to "Validon is trying something different and therefore must be scum".
I really don't like how hard Shadoweh is pushing this. Especially considering that Validon is a newer player and if Shadoweh wants to bring meta into this then couldn't it also be said that newer players tend to try to change the most as they find what fits them?
I think that Shadoweh is probably looking for an easy mislynch or something for D1 that won't give us much information about connections etc.
Eh, I dunno, I'm probably just going insane.
Anyway, I'll probably read other stuff later or something.

having to figure out who dormio is gave me an idea, can someone give me a nickname list or something so I don't get confused on people?
Most of it is the straightforward except for me. I'm Dormio.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
Yoshino's post #68 comment about Vhaltz tryharding doesn't really tell us what he thinks of him, he seems to be okay with him even though he disagrees with the vote. Elaborate?
Oh. Basically, Vhaltz's vote was way too tryhard for me to take seriously, but I don't really mind what he was doing at the time.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Affinity on July 20, 2013, 12:34:27 AM
@Conq: Town!BBM was on me pretty hard for most of Rewrite.  He raised lots of suspicions on other people as well but did not follow through with them.  They would disappear from post to post, it seems similar with now.

@Validon: You voted BBM for twisting words (which happened some time ago), but you only considered Raikaria's side of the argument and not BBM's response; could you tell us what you think of the latter.  Also what do you think about other people disagreeing with the BBM case etc; these are some lines of reflection you can go on.

===

Okay, there's a big change in the way Validon is posting, but pegging it to him being newb!scum or a bear is only one of many possibilities?  He could just be confused as he says.  I know he's not encouraging with nullreads peppered with tidbits, and that his last vote on BBM is bewildering, but it seems too easy.  Too much of a magnet.  Why wouldn't scumbuddies help him?  SB's jump looks a bit ugly actually.

I'm voting for BT because he felt that Validon backtrack on him should not happen if he had been reading his posts.  But the main issue here is that Validon has not been reading the entire game well at all before his post, referring to very little cases and posts by others.  BT's use of such a general reason (Validon's confusion) to fit such a specialized mold (Validon's backtrack on BT) is fishy.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 12:47:45 AM
Pfft. Dormio, that wasn't me accusing Vhaltz of being on The Bad Guy Side. \~*~it's joke~*~/ Because we are the scum!
I don't know why people keep saying I'm faking being angry or having conviction, I'm quite serious about what I've been posting regarding Validon. Just because you faked a case Vhaltz, doesn't mean anyone pushing something strongly is just pretending. I wouldn't say I'm mad at Validon, I don't get mad at The Bad Guys for doing what they've got to do. Except when they accuse me of coasting in a game I've put more effort into then probably the last five games combined, that makes me want to strangle people.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 20, 2013, 01:20:40 AM
In terms of BBM's response to Raikaria's post that I used as evidence, it basically looks like the last of the argument between the two left off with BBM asking Raikaria for opinions and then Raikaria having to sub out. So while BBM had a response, it didn't really go anywhere, hence why I sort of ignored it.
I haven't read too deeply so far as to why certain people aren't voting BBM (some of the ones that aren't voting him are still somewhat suspicious of him but that's not everyone). The one that confuses me the most is SB, though. He basically says that his BBM vote is "staying the same," and yet he goes and votes me anyways. Sounds like either the words of a tired person or scum. Then again SB's posts are kind of hard to follow at times so maybe he is just tired? I'm not shaking the feeling that he might be scum, though. Everyone else is a shrug at this point until I actually reread further.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 02:20:16 AM
Dan, gimme something so I can know this ain't a Shirley Temple rerun. Where are your reads, like at all?

I'll give you more than any girl ever could!   If you know what I mean wink wink.

Gimme like 2 hours straight to read through this long 5 pages.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 03:31:32 AM
Progress report.

Still middle of page 2.

Vhaltz, Shadoweh, Raikaria town so far.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 03:58:06 AM
Raikaria/Conq lynch is not happening so I'm going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Serela.

Conflicted about Shadoweh. I don't like the logic of her cases but her tone reads town so idk. I don't want to vote her right now. My problem with Dormio is more inactivity than content-related, so I'll hold off on that for now too.

Serela has done like absolutely nothing all game other than defend me and attack the reasoning of VM's arguments against me. Except he stated early on that he was leaning town on VM, so he has no scumhunting whatsoever. The defending me is probably a towncred ploy to distance himself from my lynch. He's active lurking pretty hard. A lot worse than Dan and Raitaki, who just haven't really posted that much at all.

My head hurts so I can't really remember what parts of my defence I didn't have time for earlier. If there's anything people want me to respond to, or if they want me to claim, speak up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 04:17:21 AM
And yeah I'm aware that Serela has no votes on him and is therefore further away from a lynch than Raikaria/Conq, but I feel that people might be more willing to wagon him than Conq anyways because he legitimately has zero content.

I'd be okay with lynching Validon too, his content consists of just going back and forth on me and labeling everyone else in the game as null. His only listed reason for finding me scummy is my apparent misrep of Raikaria early on. I don't think he's even looked at any of my other posts, which I don't like. If I'm literally his only scumread, he should be putting more of an effort into analyzing my posts.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 04:40:49 AM
My problem with Dormio is more inactivity than content-related
Steam summer sale. Good luck!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 04:43:24 AM
Pfft. Dormio, that wasn't me accusing Vhaltz of being on The Bad Guy Side. \~*~it's joke~*~/ Because we are the scum!
And with the way that you had worded your statement, it's fairly easy to spin your words as being an accusation that Vhaltz was one of the "good boys" which I assume refers to town which you are using as the informed minority in this game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 04:43:39 AM
middle of page 4.

Validon is prob-town.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 04:46:37 AM
So we can totally expect a post detailing why you think what you've posted in thread once you're done with your read, right Dan?
Because random reads are pretty worthless in my opinion.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 04:53:44 AM
you can maybe expect more.  but not much more than maybe a few lines.  that said I'm getting more concrete reads. 

I mean I go to bed at 2am and this reading has deprived me of time playing games with my sex interest.  So I cry every time I read a wall.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 04:55:56 AM
Sex is, like, totally overrated anyway.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 05:39:52 AM
done!

town:

Conq, VM.

prob-town:

Shadoweh, Validon

in-betweens (roughly in order from town to scum):

SB
Dormio
BT
Affinity

People who post badly and that I dislike and border on scummy:

Serela.

scummy:

Raitaki
BBM.

I think Raitaki's Shadoweh vote was plain bad.  Also seems to have more reason to vote Raikaria over Shadoweh frankly.

I think BBM's responses to VM were overly defensive and on top of that flawed.  All he had to say was something along the lines of "ya I just posted my confusion and oops wasn't thinking about being misunderstood sorry everyone" and it would have been fine.  Trying to debate the issue is instinctively a scum response.  I don't feel like going into all of the argument itself but the counterargument from BBM of "but there is no towncred to be had because it is known that a equivalent mafia PM (a town role PM) with partners will be equally confusing" is bad because if people take the post at face value then they will only think that BBM was confused because he got an equivalent town PM (a mafia role PM).  BBM seized this idea and held it for dear life. 

Also like Conq and BT and maybe others I found BBM laying into Raikaria less than sincere.

Vote: BBM

also willing to vote Raitaki equally as much.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 05:40:43 AM
Sex is, like, totally overrated anyway.

Sex is glorious.  unless you are asexual.  Then maybe not so much.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 06:05:59 AM
How is debating an instinctively scummy response? That premise is extremely flawed.

And VM's argument was that I was too experienced a player to just derp and post something that could be misunderstood, so saying "sorry, I dun goofed" wouldn't have responded to his vote. I didn't consider it overly defensive, and in fact, VM seems to think I handwaved most of his argument away, which doesn't really go well together with me being overly defensive.

And I don't understand why people would think that I must have gotten a mafia role PM if they take it at face value.

Also, you have a townread on one of the day's largest wagons (Validon). If so, why aren't you defending him more and actually stating the reasons for your townread? As it is it does nobody any good.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 10:03:20 AM
*faceplam* I was taking about RAITAKI, not RAIKARIA. I know Raikaria subbed out. And you say I'm not ready. >_>;

So wait, if your BBM vote is the same as it has been, why vote me then? I know my list was bad, but it sounds more like you want to vote BBM yet can't. Um... explanation?

I retracted the statement later in the post when I realized there had been 2 rais.

I meant read, not vote.

Back to reading.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 20, 2013, 11:01:06 AM
I'm not going to be on for quite a while longer. I will be able to get back before the deadline, but just barely.
For now, though, I know I haven't focused a lot on other posts related to BBM. The other big thing I've seen from him is the VM/BBM argument which has gone completely over my head because it has crossed meta territory and that's out there for me. There's stuff about towncred and Cascade Availability and all kinds of stuff I've never heard of so I basically just ignored that argument. After a quick glance VM is indeed probably being tryhard, I get why everyone is saying that. I don't think it's scum-motivated, though.

BBM does bring up a valid point on Serela and Dan. I have no idea what the hell with Serela either. I have looked at some of his posts but I have ignored them because I didn't see much in them. Dan should expand more on his reasoning behind reading certain people the way he did.

I am still voting BBM though because after two games I know he can pull a very convincing job of being town and I cannot trust him.

@Serious Bananas: Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Those kinds of typos can make a big difference. And I realized you said something about the two Rais thing and I thought I responded but I guess I didn't. Also, that big post I quoted: The way you wrote it is kind of a headache to read because it apparently goes in chronological order, so you waffle like mad there. I'm not going to hold it against you now, but seriously, that combined with your typo almost made me want to vote you.

So yeah, I'm be gone for several hours again but I'll make it back before the deadline.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 11:05:40 AM
Vhaltz's #100 has the "oh, it was just a reaction test" when he started to recieve flak for it which I really don't like. He also seems to focus way too much on whether or not BBM's a good player (bbm sux lololol) and I don't think he's calling himself a bad player like you seem to be implying he is, just not as strong as you seem to be making him out to be. Some people just don't like going "oh yeah I'm the best". Also the whole "BBM and BT always appear pro-town" thing is stoopid (and in BBM's case it's a lie, he's been scummy before) and basically I'm taking your interpretation of how you read them as you should grasp more when making cases on them, since that's what it reads like to me. Ignoring the "last resort" point on him because I haven't read that game. Pretty much you say "BBM reads mostly town for me, that's why I 'm going to vote for him."

Dan's #112 sucks. Really, it's just an empty unvote and a townread out of nowhere. Dan, who is scum? Would advocate vig on this slot currently.

I can agree with Conq's case on BBM in #117, pretty sure I picked up on BBM twisting people's words earlier on at some point. Agree with his Dormio case too.

#123 by Validon feels like excuses everywhere (although they could be real so I'll lay off this a little) but he talks about not sheeping then pretty much uses Conq's case on BBM to vote him, and pretty much says "I always found him to be suspect, why did I unvote?"

up to #137, getting some food then I'll be back

@Validon, that's just kind of my posting style I guess. Generally I skimread then do an in depth one when I actually start to post, and it comes out in kind of a cluttered way especially since if I'm playing like this and posting in chunks rather than a single solid post (that and the fact most of my posts have been when I'm already kind of tired hasn't helped.)

someone help me I'm turning into Manix
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 11:08:30 AM
Uh

I get the feeling Serela is town this game.  based only on style of posts.

People who post badly and that I dislike and border on scummy:

Serela.

What happened here Dan. Did you forget the reads you gave out earlier.
Mostly because Serela hasn't even posted after his #107 and you posted that townread due to posting style in your #112, which means that there is no new content on him to make you change your mind.

If you hadn't read the thread earlier and changed your mind over a reread perhaps you should have justified the read switch with reasoning of some sort other than "posts badly".
fakeedit: I actually realize Serela is scum as hell a few lines later in this post so I'm mire willing to understand this now. Plus it doesn't make any sense for me to ask him why he changed his read when I've pretty much given a whole case on him that he can use to justify it.


Bleeeeeeeegh. I really don't like how these wagons are progressing right now coupled with how some people have been behaving during mid-D1. BT and Serela just stopped posting about 20 frickin hours ago letting everybody else reach the wagons that would later turn into consolidation lynches without much involvement, and it's not like they haven't been around to read/post. I don't like Dan's only contentpost and his BBM vote despite thinking BBM has had the highest chances of flipping scum until now.
Overall this reads like a dual town wagons day because if we had hit scum in either of the two big wagons there would be scum effort in trying to divert the wagon on scum towards another townie, and I don't remember many hipster votes other than Dormio's and BBM's, and I could see BBM's being trying to scumhunt before resorting to Not Me Over Me.

This is going to look weird since I'm switching from my top scumread onto my top scumread's vote, Serela. But BBM's point is actually true, he has been active lurking. I had read him town but he hasn't been scumhunting at all in hindsight. A quick ISO revels that he hasn't even moved his vote from Shadoweh since RVS while not talking about Shadoweh to justify his vote further at all, I gave him a town read and he coasted on it. Lynch this guy NOW.

Post #19 -> votes Shadoweh.
##Kill:Shadoweh

You want to be the townest, don't you?!

Votecount #114 -> Still voting Shadoweh.
Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Not Voting: Affinity, Walidon98, Action Dan (3)

There are 31.5 Hours left in the night. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)

Hasn't posted in 20+ hours since his last post after I threw out the idea that he was town, is active lurking by asking questions and defending BBM while not scumhunting because I can only see passing mentions on Shadoweh and not only are none on why Shadoweh is scum, but pretty much of them are fluff ("Shadoweh x Kitten4u otp", "not my fault game got interrupted mid-D1" and a justification of his first ED1 post that reads like "please forgive me Shadoweh I was trying it's not like I'm actually still voting you and supposed to think you're scum").
If he happens to be town for whatever reason then he deserves being lynched anyway because who the hell forgets their own vote as town and lurks like hell??? This is a lot more of a scumtell than the beef I had earlier on BBM. LYNCH THE SCUM.

#Unkill
Kill: Serela

If for whatever reason there's no support on the Serela wagon then consider me also willing to switch to consolidate on...
Haha, no. Lynch Serela. Now.

Cut by Bananas hey there I haven't read your post yet but do you want to lynch Serela? he's scum.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 11:15:15 AM
If he happens to be town for whatever reason then he deserves being lynched anyway because who the hell forgets their own vote as town and lurks like hell???

This is supposed to be rethorical by the way, while some other players might do this for whatever reason it's not something town!Serela would do.

Also about coasting on the town reads, Dan had thrown one at him too. I had mentioned that earlier in the post when talking to Dan but I figure it's worth noting again so that anybody could see that two townreads coming Serela's way after a few posts meant he could relax and coast while one may not have been enough.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 11:22:01 AM
Also lynching Serela who is much more clearly scum than BBM will aid in reading BBM so there are no downsides.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 11:38:46 AM
Damn I'm starting to sound a little like GreyICE minus the swears, I'll try to chill a little :ohdear:

For those wondering why Serela over Validon considering that Validon has also stuck to his RVS vote for the most part and also sounds bad, Validon has at least attempted to justify his vote even if his content was not that great. You could reasonably expect that from somebody's 3rd game.
Serela hasn't updated his vote or reasoning at all so either he just decided he really didn't feel like playing as town (and he hasn't sounded depressed enough to do this) or he's scum active lurking/coasting on town reads. Absolutely Useless Town Serela is not something you'd expect from him, he would at least try to scumhunt even if he failed hard at it.

Given the high chances to flip scum and the uselessness if he's town for whatever reason Serela is the best lynch for today.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 12:51:11 PM
And with the way that you had worded your statement, it's fairly easy to spin your words as being an accusation that Vhaltz was one of the "good boys" which I assume refers to town which you are using as the informed minority in this game.
Well, I supose I was being vaguely threatening to start off. Mostly I just wanted to make the joke. I don't think I've entertained a bad feeling of him since he started speaking though.

Bleh I still think Validon's posts are weird but I can't argue against that they might just be 'better'. I don't think I see the lynch happening today anyways and time will probably help figure out if he's getting help posting. I've still got my eye on you.

I don't know how else to say this about Serela, I don't see much content in his posts but that's not really an indicator of whether he's scum or not. >.> Vhaltz why would you go from BBM HATE and saying Dan is weird to voting with BBM and Dan. Serela is always a good lynch easy enough to read when he posts reads and I agree not being able to point to a scumspect is a good lynching reason, just that even as scum he's usually tried to make a terrible reason to lynch someone by now. Usually one of his buddies. >:<

Also even if it's 'lacking' I don't think Dan's post is bad so there's that. He clearly recognizes my goddesshood, which is always a good start. Looking at the clock there's ten hours from now to deadline so I'm gonna catch some zz's and decide what else to do in the morning. Suspects looking townie always depresses me.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 01:27:31 PM
I don't know how else to say this about Serela, I don't see much content in his posts but that's not really an indicator of whether he's scum or not. >.> Vhaltz why would you go from BBM HATE and saying Dan is weird to voting with BBM and Dan. Serela is always a good lynch easy enough to read when he posts reads and I agree not being able to point to a scumspect is a good lynching reason, just that even as scum he's usually tried to make a terrible reason to lynch someone by now. Usually one of his buddies. >:<

Probably the same reason Dormio is voting for you despite the other two votes in the wagon being voteparks, conviction that this is scum. This is not "hey best thing I got rolling with it" anymore, I would really be surprised if Serela flipped town.
Also see the wagon progression comments and Serela/BT absence. I think I have done pretty good at analyzing vote movement in D1 so far in my games, I was right about it when I distrusted both wagons on you and Dormio in Chelsea and the Seven Devils Mafia. I just don't think we've hit scum with the Validon/BBM wagons or things would've run in other directions. The only thing that irked me a little about this is that after counting votes a little while ago I also noticed you were a wagon on par with Validon, it's fishy that Dormio voted along with two voteparks but it would be understandable that he'd disregard them as a reason to stay off the wagon because he really thinks you're scum, his recent post reads more like the usual Dormio.

The realization has hit me a little late but I don't see why you should withhold support on a wagon until tomorrow when the wagon is at 2 votes and the other three wagons are at 3 votes, we are hardly consolidating on two wagons at this point anymore. Serela lynch can still go through today and I'm confident enough about his scumminess that I'm even more curious to see his flip now, because this could just be waving off the wagon to get a scumbuddy with a nice role to live for at least one more day.

Town would also be better off losing Town!Serela (if he is town in which case I will go what the fuck Serela in post-game because that would be TERRIBLE townplay) than Town!BBM if he happens to be town (if he is town then it just means that he has a hard time understanding others' cases and always puts them in his own words in ways that are externally viewed as misreps, this is a theory that Mitsuki came up with last night and I could see it happening). Plus lynching Serela over him would additionally aid in reading BBM (because if Serela is scum I could see BBM's vote on him over a Not Me Over Me on Validon being a last attempt in scumhunting before entering deadline shenanigans, which could still be a bus but I doubt it would happen at this exact point) and anything that happens with him from here onward. Such as your soft defense of him with "there's no time" and "he'll be easy to read later". You say you're depressed by your suspects seeming town, which is also contradictory with not supporting this alternate wagon of SERELA IS CLEARLY SCUM with such poor reasons. Why not lynch him now when he's being scummy as hell and worse than Validon who is now looking somewhat possibly town to you? Nothing makes sense here.

So all in all I don't see any reason to not lynch Serela over BBM. Go for it, lynch Serela 2013.

Also if you read my fakeedit Dan doesn't worry me that much anymore because Serela is indeed a really scummy thing and I can see the big switch in reads happening even though he should have reasoned that. I could see town!Dan doing that even if it's scummy/weird whereas I wouldn't see Serela playing the way he is as town. I probably should have backspaced on the whole Dan thing to make things less confusing but I wanted to make sure that other people who can read him better notice him so that I'm not giving him a free pass.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 20, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
Dust in the Wind
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio (3)
BBM:     Conqueror, Validon, ActionDan (3)
BT:    Affinity (1)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Not Voting: No one :toot:

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
There are 9.5 Hours left in the night. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 01:44:15 PM
I commented on a lot of -things that seemed weird- so I'll update my priority list.

Scum:
Serela

Maybe scum:
BBM (don't really want to lynch until Serela is lynched, might move towards null/town if Serela flips scum)
Shadoweh (don't really want to lynch until Serela is lynched, might move back towards null if Serela flips town)
BT (gut on his Validon vote and No Recent Posts letting others be mostly responsible for wagon consolidation)

Null-ish from scummier to townier:
SB
Validon
Dan
Dormio

Kinda town:
Affinity
Conq (will become obvious over time so not worried about him and Mitsuki and I like reading him so)

I'm not even putting Raitaki on null because I tried to classify it from scummier to townier and Raitaki is true null while I'm waffling on some of the others in that category (Validon).

I should be around until deadline but I'll try not to spam posts much. I really really want Serela lynched though.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
I'm leaving to go to a party in 3.5 hours.  I could vote Serela.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 20, 2013, 02:33:40 PM
I've overslept and then had my den turned into a construction site for a few hours. Reading will commence in a few hours. Sitting uncomfortably as we speak.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 02:35:57 PM
Didn't realize deadline was so close. I'll be able to make a more detailed post in a few hours, but first:

BBM, the way you worded your unvote on me makes it sound like you think my slot is scum but you aren't making any effort to convince other people of that viewpoint. Also, before that unvote, the only scumread you were seriously pushing was Raikaria, but now that I'm not a viable lynch anymore you're suddenly interested in Validon/Serela? There's nothing wrong with changing reads suddenly but it feels like you were content to lazily sit on Raikaria until you were forced to look at other lynch candidates.

Re: Appeal to Emotion. In the end, I don't care whether Raikaria was Appealing to Emotion or not, because I can see my role pm and I know what my alignment is. The way you pushed the case on my slot before I replaced in was scummy because you just plopped a label on Raikaria's play and sat there with a vote on him while lazily poking at other people.

All that said, I'd probably be willing to go for a Serela lynch over BBM given the amount of analyzable content they're going to put out over the course of the game. Serela's white-knighting of BBM also looks like busywork given that he spends all his time dissecting Vhaltz's case when I think most people here can agree Vhaltz is one of the towniest people in the game and Serela acknowledges that. Why would you waste effort tearing apart the arguments of one of your townreads at the expense of doing anything else? Bloody hipster.

##Unkill
##Kill Serela


I'll reread Serela/BBM/Validon and other people when I get back in a bit but I'm doing this for now to show my approval for this wagon.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 02:50:35 PM
@Conq
If you have the time could I also get your reads on Shadoweh and Dormio so far? I can usually read them perfectly well in games I'm not playing in but I can't seem to do the same now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Affinity on July 20, 2013, 03:14:28 PM
Going onto things other than Validon is frightful, cause without BBM/Raikaria and BBM/Vhaltz, both of which I'm inclined to ignore, this seems like any other D1 with questionable people and stuff.  ActionDan's lists, Serela's... not making posts that matter?

Reading Serela, yeah he simply hasn't made a relevant vote as people have said, but I'm getting more of a feeling of genuine bewilderment at Vhaltz being verbose back D1 than active lurking, leading to that quote tirade.  'Distancing' oneself from a lynch so early in the game strikes me as null.  Imo he's just as null as a clean slate for me; I don't agree with the 'active lurking' and 'distancing' accusations levied at him.

Out of all lynch candidates I'm best with Shadoweh; don't like how she pursued Validon from a 'coaching' perspective.  I'll justify later but bed awaits.  Let me put this vote out first.

##Unkill
##Kill: Shadoweh
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 03:20:17 PM
'Distancing'

Never said anything about this. It's not so much distancing as it is not scumhunting. Being confused by my batshit insaneness doesn't imply that he'd drop everything else and forget to look for scum as town, that'd be the same as assuming he's forgetting how to play or what his role PM is.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 03:36:26 PM
Vhaltz: Yeah sure I'll do them first.

Dormio stop posting in other threads your ISO is a nightmare to traverse.

My recent success in reading Shadoweh/Dormio has been fairly limited but I'll give it a shot. The problem with both Shadoweh and Dormio this game (Dormio more than Shadoweh) is that they both have kinda singular focuses. I want to see more from Dormio about not!Shadoweh (DORMIO GET ON THIS YOU LAZY BUM) but I guess gut tells me he's leaning town because of his tone, at least for me. It's hard to explain. He's not really a concern for me at the moment; his case on Shadoweh is decent I guess.

I'm taking a quick look at Gensokyo Holy War Mafia as reference. Dormio has posted less here than in that game when he was basically drowned by hats, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in any case. I took at quick look at Dormio last group mafia game (NHK) and I didn't get anything useful from it so whatever. If you have the time you can take a look at it if you want but I don't think it'll be very informative.

To be honest I'm having trouble reading Shadoweh because I know she likes to push hard on newbies (it's true!) as either alignment. Examples that come to mind are scum!Shadoweh pushing IHNN in Gensokyo Holy War and town!Shadoweh pushing (numerous examples here that I can't be bothered to remember).

Actually what pings me the most about Shadoweh is in her latest post when she says this:
Bleh I still think Validon's posts are weird but I can't argue against that they might just be 'better'. I don't think I see the lynch happening today anyways and time will probably help figure out if he's getting help posting. I've still got my eye on you.

...

Looking at the clock there's ten hours from now to deadline so I'm gonna catch some zz's and decide what else to do in the morning. Suspects looking townie always depresses me.
Because I don't think I've even seen town!Shadoweh give up on a lynch so easily, especially when the Validon lynch is easily viable and in fact one of the most viable lynches at the moment given the looming deadline. Her "suspects looking townie always depresses me" line sounds kinda fake too; what happened to her secondary suspicions on BBM etc that she'd just leave the lynch up in the air like that? Feels like she's waiting to see where the lynch is going to go before making a decision.

Actually, fuck it.

##Unkill
##Kill Shadoweh


Going to do more rereads and make more posts, so stay tuned.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 03:38:47 PM
don't want.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 03:41:30 PM
Move to Serela then, or are you going to hold out for BBM?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 03:41:41 PM
We can just lynch Shadoweh after we lynch Serela and he flips scum ;_;
His flip would give a really nice associative read on her as well as on BBM.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 03:44:23 PM
Well I agree that if Serela flips scum Shadoweh is 90% next on the chopping block.

##Unkill
##Kill Serela


w/e I'll do this first just to get the Serela wagon viable while I keep looking at stuff
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 20, 2013, 03:49:12 PM
aghghgahghaghhh

I can hopefully run back home on my break in 4~5 hours to see if I need to change my vote, but I have to leave for work in a few minutes so there is literally no time for me to do more then a not-me-over-me

I spent 4 hours trying to make a post last night and it super didn't work out, so I figured I'd do it in the morning >> And then I overslept <<

...except my vote is already on Shadoweh. Between the 3 big not-me wagons, I'd least rather lynch Validon (that is, it would be the most undesirable) anyway I have to run if you guys want to lynch BBM I'll have a chance to switch to him later >_> I'll only be here a few minutes though, then.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 03:52:03 PM
can you at least give the pretense that you're trying to scumhunt instead of just going not me over me? like even barebones one line reasoning? do you even have a reason for wanting shadoweh lynched?

i hate you all, did you know that

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Serela on July 20, 2013, 03:52:19 PM
orite claiming vanilla
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 03:54:17 PM
can someone not me look up the last time scum!serela claimed vanilla while he was being run up; i have to do something else real quick brb
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 03:55:39 PM
actually serela just tell me yourself

the fact that the wagons are like this so close to deadline is annoying and sapping my motivation

im sitting in a room with no air conditioning and sweating while waiting for stuff to pop up here

post you jerks
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 04:00:48 PM
All excuses and still no trace of scumhunting. This is also not the first time that you fake not being able to get a big post out as scum so get lynched, scum Serela.

Cut by Conq last Serela!Scum I remember claimed JoaT but he had to do so to cover up for possible trackers or whatever since he had an active post-restricting role, all other games he's been scum in I'd have to read from beginning to end and cut yes it'd be a good idea for Serela to tell us himself.

He could not be just out of work and have talked this out with his buddies before posting and claiming since I posted the case about 3-4 hours ago and was already pushing it hard then, so I'm not that into buying the claim. Specially since it's D1 and there's no lynch/kill info for scum to go on which means they'd risk being CC'd if they claimed a power role.
I'm probably just going confirmation bias all over the place but.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
##Unkill for now
Okay the last time he didn't claim something like VIG LOL (Gensokyo Holy War, Midnight Crew) or JOAT (C7D) or WATCHER (Graveyard) or COP (Adorable Game of Mafia) was in Darker than Black mafia in 2011, and he only claimed vanilla because he didn't want to let people know he was scum bulletproof or something trying to hammer a bomb. Oh there's FF9 where he was a scum neighbor but that doesn't really count as he made it to LYLO and won; I'm looking at early game claims when run up to lynch. Kamen Rider doesn't count either as he never made it to a claim. There are games further back but those are probably too old to be relevant at all.

I don't think scum!Serela would really care about being CC'd if he's going down. A VT claim will only make people want to lynch him more and at least a CC outs a PR for scum to kill.

Thinking about this a little.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 04:12:31 PM
what about wagoning raitaki.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 04:15:19 PM
Oh wait I remember he was also scum in another game I read and he claimed vig followed by bulletproof next game saying it was a gambit. It was the one with GreyICE hosted by Hourai, Midnight Crew. He also claimed vig in Gensokyo Holy War, both claims ended up with him being lynched mercilessly so maybe he's learned and figured claiming vig wouldn't do him any good anymore?

Dunno, I just can't seem to put myself behind Town!Serela doing what he's been doing this game. He hasn't confirmed/justified his vote or even asked any questions that implied some sort of scumhunting at all throughout 60~ hours of gameplay.

Cut. I could backspace on the games but w/e putting it out as it is.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 04:21:21 PM
what about wagoning raitaki.

That wouldn't give much information at all, I'm not reading him scum and I'm not even sure we'd have the votes to do it. Would rather lynch someone else.

Plus Conq for all I know you could've told him to claim VT so that you could save him from the lynch through claim meta. I was also looking through the games and only got two/almost three in the time that you got a fricking whole bunch. I figured I'd ignore the possiblity of lynching you this game because you'd end up getting killed sooner or later as a strong townie but that doesn't mean I'm sheeping you to the ends of the earth. Serela still reads scum despite the claim and could've been told to claim this by you or any other scumbuddy who knows what they're doing.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 04:22:03 PM
A Raitaki lynch would basically be a pure lurker D1 lynch; he has almost no content to speak of and few people have really talked about him.

Putting aside the obvious risk of trying to pull up 7 votes in 7 hours I'd have to want to lynch him over all the other current wagonees...which I dunno. His content post wasn't great but lynching him for it feels like an alignment crapshoot?

Vhaltz: Yeah I dunno, I don't like Serela's face either but I get the feeling he'd want to claim something given the high likelihood of him getting lynched with a vanilla claim especially given his lack of complete effort this game. He could just be really busy? Busyness isn't really alignment indicative so I dunno. I have a bad Serela reading record.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 04:25:23 PM
Cut by paranoia. Ahaha, I knew that would come up sooner or later. Yeah, I can't deny the possibility given that I'm the person pushing this argument, although given my past history being buddies with scum!Serela I wouldn't take the risk of trying to save him with a vanilla claim. I couldn't even save him in C7D when he claimed a PR and I was hard defending him the entire way with a post-restricted lurking townie as a counterwagon. ;-;

(me finding the games faster is because i at least have an inkling of what goes on in most games that are played here even if im not in them; also using the mafia archive here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14201.0.html) helps a lot)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 04:29:50 PM
Raitaki has commented on his IRL issues and he'll be around in D2 and we'll poke him to death if he doesn't post enough content to make up for D1. I don't want to flip a coin on a lynch when I have scum right in front of me I want lynched.

I got the same feeling as I did back in Chelsea and the Seven Devils when I remembered he existed and pushed for his lynch. I also waffled towards the end like I did for a second with the claim thing but no fuck that he can't be town. If he were town and his post yesterday -hadn't worked out- he would've posted some waffles apologizing for not getting anything straight and tried to do something with his vote regardless. I just can't see Town!Serela anywhere. It's scum for sure and if not I will frown at him heavily in post game.

Cut I know, I was using the mafia archive too and that's why I'm baffled ._.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
Pyoa Aaaa had at least the decency to make up a few cases and reads. Serela this game has given literally nothing. FFS he's sitting on a jokevote.

I don't know why I'm defending Serela anyway, it's not like I can say he isn't scummy, but I have a feeling and coupled with his claim I'm not sure he's actually scum.

I just can't see Town!Serela anywhere. It's scum for sure and if not I will frown at him heavily in post game.
Ah, you remind me of myself when I was still uninitiated to the ways of the world.  :colonveeplusalpha:

Cut I know, I was using the mafia archive too and that's why I'm baffled ._.
Get on my level and lurk more games.  :V
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 20, 2013, 04:47:13 PM
Dust Kick Slide
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
BBM:     Validon, ActionDan (2)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Not Voting: Conqueror

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
There are 6.2 Hours left in the night. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 04:51:39 PM
Raitaki's scum meta as far as I know after last game isn't as much making up excuses to not be here for a long period of time as it is posting once every 18-20~ hours with kinda sensical content but not enough to let people get a good read on him and therefore postponing judgement on him forever.

Also Serela commented he would be busy during D1 at the beginning of the game, but then deadline got extended and he made no comment at all on whether or not he would be busy during the last 24 hours iirc, so I figure he was just trying to not post and get by unnoticed.

I think that's enough chatter between us for now though, people will get back close to deadline and will have to read. I still want to lynch the hell out of Serela despite claim meta because claims can be a group decision whereas Serela was writing his own posts, and that's that. I don't even know what I want to do with my vote if it's not lynching Serela for being a scumlord because my reads on BBM and Shadoweh cling onto his flip at this point and Validon also seems like a crapshoot lynch. So unless I got like 10x better at mafia and could write a case on why BT sounds so scummy to me this game I don't think I want to vote anybody else. I guess a Shadoweh lynch could give information but uuuuuugh. I just want to lynch Serela first, her waving off Serela's growing wagon is not even close to how bad Serela is.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 04:53:17 PM
##Kill Serela

Okay I reread Shadoweh Serela Validon and BBM and I want this lynch the most atm. The weirdest thing I can find about Shadoweh is her sudden giving up on Validon at the end of the day. It seems out of character with how hard she was pushing his lynch all day for her to suddenly say she's not so sure he's lynchable anymore, throw up her arms and say she'll be back at deadline without commenting on major wagons on her other main suspects like BBM. The meta!case on Validon is weak but I can see where she's coming from with it so I'm conflicted on how scummy it is. The scummiest thing about Shadoweh pushing the Validon case is that it feels like picking on newbies.
Validon is posting more but I want to ask him why he isn't focusing on people other than BBM because it feels like he's doing it just because people like me asked him to. BBM isn't the other person in the game. Validon, what do you think about the other major wagons, for instance? I feel like Validon will be easier to read the more he posts though.
BBM I don't have anything more to say beyond what I said in my last few posts. I'm going to take a look at Touhou Nocfia for a bit I guess.
Serela has just done nothing. I don't know what to say, if anything can be said.

Worst case we lose a VT who can't be bothered to post.

It's 1 AM here and I need to wake up in the morning, although I'll likely miss deadline so after a few more posts I won't be back.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: ActionDan on July 20, 2013, 05:00:31 PM
##KILL: SERELA

I'd also say the scum meta of raitaki will probably be different if he were scum this game than last game.  because... why would anyone rep their scum play 1 game ago.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 05:13:17 PM
Okay looking real quickly at BBM's posts in Touhou Nocfia where he was mafia (why does it stop at 8 pages when there are more posts? stupid sf forums) (http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&%20%20cId=40793&search_author=BigBadMarshmallow) I guess they give off a different sort of impression from his play in this game? He seems more "together" and nitpicky as mafia I guess, although it's hard to tell because there's so little to go on in this game so far. I guess what huhwhat said here  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14781.msg978797.html#msg978797)sorta fits BBM's play here. I'M TRUSTING YOU ON THIS ONE HUHWHAT YOU BETTER NOT FAIL ME.

Whatever, I'm done with this game for today and I need to sleep.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
I guess I'll do this before I go for my own reference

Town:
Affinity
Vhaltz

Leaning Town:
ActionDan (gut)
BBM (via METAZ so pro)
Dormio (seems disinterested which is totally a towntell for him, but needs to post about more than one person)

Leftovers are null to scum. I've already talked about some about Validon Shadoweh Raitaki and Serela so let's go over BT and SB real quick.

SB, can you like write a concise summary of your reads because it's a pain to get a hold on what you're currently thinking with your current format. The attack on Vhaltz also bugs me to an extent because before I replaced into this game I decided that if I rolled scum I'd attack Vhaltz because Vhaltz was obvtown to me and yet a lot of the arguments he were using were questionable so I'd be able to generate a lot of fake content by harping on that, sorta like what Pesco did to Vhaltz in C7D.
I don't know what to say about BT. I don't really understand his angle on Validon so the conviction in the vote feels a bit like posturing . Apparently he's going to make a post soon though.
In any case if I'm alive tomorrow I'd want to look into these two further since I feel like they're coasting by with questionable content.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 05:29:20 PM
TBH I'm not sure if you can even compare a game where I was not under thread-wide suspicion for most of the game to a game where I've been under suspicion almost from the get-go. It's been a while since I've been run up on D1 as scum. If you want to look at a case of that, Chilean Musician Mafia is probably a better game (though it's quite old).

Still kind of frustrated that people are saying that I kept twisting Raikaria's words when what I said looks like a correct interpretation to me. I don't think I was parking Raikaria either. I was consistently replying back to what he was saying. As for me giving up on going for his lynch, it was mainly because half the thread had the slot as super town, and I didn't want to spend time arguing more with that slot when it was just making me increasingly frustrated.

I don't normally think VT claims from people about to be lynched are scum, but Serela seriously hasn't done anything at all other than white knight me against his townread, and I still feel the most comfortable with his lynch.

Something about BT's play bothers me; I'm going to read his posts again.

Someone said at some point that if Serela flipped scum, they'd think Shadoweh was scum too. Could they explain that?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 05:35:08 PM
Shadoweh has a history of being able to mysteriously divine Serela's alignment in past games. Her waffling half-hearted defense just really reminds me of how Shadoweh dealt with her scumbuddy Serela in Gensokyo Holy War Mafia. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14547.0.html)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Conqueror on July 20, 2013, 05:42:40 PM
EBWOP: Also re: the way you treated Raikaria's slot; I'm biased for obvious reasons so we can just agree to disagree since I don't think you're lying about that regardless of your alignment.

Although fwiw I thought Raikaria's frustration with how people were attacking him over his gut vote were obviously coming from town before I replaced into the slot. I think even his scum game has more finesse than that. But that's not really relevant. I'm rambling so I really should sleep, night. Lynch Serela over the other candidates imo, gl fellow mafiates.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 05:49:55 PM
I don't know how else to say this about Serela, I don't see much content in his posts but that's not really an indicator of whether he's scum or not. >.> Vhaltz why would you go from BBM HATE and saying Dan is weird to voting with BBM and Dan. Serela is always a good lynch easy enough to read when he posts reads and I agree not being able to point to a scumspect is a good lynching reason, just that even as scum he's usually tried to make a terrible reason to lynch someone by now. Usually one of his buddies. >:<

She basically postpones her lynch saying the following:
- he'll be a clear read later on -> he is already clearly scum now
- 10 hours from deadline too little time to lynch -> he had 2 votes while all other wagons had 3, this was not an excuse.

Plus it doesn't make sense when added to her later point in the post that says her scumspect is looking townie and it makes her depressed. If her top scumread stopped looking so scummy and she no longer has the conviction to follow up on him as The Priority then why would you handwave other wagons instead of considering them?

I dunno about meta because I haven't read that game Conq linked, but this is all pretty weird and could make for a scumbuddy attempt at softdefense to stop his growing wagon and let him live another day. Which is why she will be looked into further tomorrow when Serela flips informed minority.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 05:53:51 PM
Okay, I thought BT's Raikaria and Validon votes were decent, but his other stuff (namely in 108) sort of bothers me.

The wording of his blurb on Raikaria in #108 felt kind of unnecessarily waffly. What's the point of saying "I think he's scummy because he has no quality scumhunting. Except he actually does have a little so I'm feeling better." I also don't really like his stance on me because he's pushing me while not really committing to a solid opinion on me. It feels kind of like cheerleading my wagon while not really tying himself that much to it. And what's the point of saying that SB's comments bug you but you don't see a point in pursuing it? That sort of statement is just so unnecessary. If you don't think there's enough in SB's VM comments to bother pursuing it, why even mention it?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 06:01:07 PM
She basically postpones Serela's lynch saying the following
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 06:54:23 PM
First off, I'm not really the kind of player who explicitly states their reads all the time, but generally when I say that I find a couple of things by a person suspect then it means I don't like them. Right now I could lynch Dormio (or Vhaltz, but everyone else seems fixated that he's obvtown so ugh.) Shadoweh's explanation of why he's town in #137 doesn't really put me at ease because scum can put effort in just like town (I did it in the last mini game I played on my main site, and only really started getting suspected because of PoE.) I'll lay off voting them for now since it's near deadline I think, but yeah.

Responding to VM's #138, I viewed a lot of your post as kind of fluffy, yeah. And yeah, I said I was ignoring it because I couldn't concentrate on big walls of text at the time, so that was my bad. Something I will say though is that the reaction test was bad and wish people would stop doing that even if you are town because how does making yourself look scummy deliberately help the town? You could've just said I think that BBM is the most suspicious because of this rather than "pretending" to be fixated on it. ...bleh. Actually, thinking about it most bad reaction tests I've seen recently have been from townies (not to say scum can't do it too) so I'm not sure what to think on it anymore. I guess it makes me feel a little better on you, especially since you stated it was a test when you weren't in danger of being lynched at all. Would rather that you stop using meta so heavily since people's play develop and change over time, for example your Dormio suspicion is literally that he reads differently to (what I assume to be) a game where he was town. Not even that he's exerting a scumtell. Waffling a lot on VM now, ugh.

ActionDan really needs to site his shit in #150 since he's just abruptly calling Validon town and has to be prodded by Dormio to do it. Later on (#154) he calls BBM scummy for debating and defending himself from a weak case, which is pretty dumb imo.

Could probably go for a Serela lynch although I have pretty much nothing to add onto VM's case in #160 that comes to mind right now. Apart from the "this is going to look weird" bit which makes me a little uneasy.

And I need to go to pick up dinner, wonderful. Should finish up when I get back. Off the top of my head I could probably support lynches on ActionDan, Validon and Serela. Not sure what to think on VM anymore, and Dormio's latest posts are improving a little imo.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Validon98 on July 20, 2013, 06:58:24 PM
I HAVE RETURNED.

Looking back, Conqueror mentioned looking at other wagons. Right now they are Shadoweh and Serela. My thoughts are brief and as follows:

Shadoweh: Other people have noticed the whole "I'm kind of dropping the Validon case" thing. I mean, I honestly have no idea where that came from. Shadoweh, if you were so intent on having me lynched, then why are you backing off now? I also don't like how she's been using meta on me, but that's a minor issue because it's From My Point Of View. And then there's the whole "I'm not going to vote Serela because too few votes" thing. Like, it's like she doesn't want to consider other wagons or anything. She's just parking her vote on me in the meanwhile. Suspicious, but she's only one of the two wagons.
Serela: Yeeeeeeah... he's done pretty much nothing in any way, shape, or form. I know I was on BBM's case for seeming scummy, but at least he's defended himself. Serela just seems all "meh" to me about everyone's accusations. I don't like it. Not at all. And seeing as he hasn't done much, lynching him is not really an issue, plus, yes, association reads on Shadoweh will result.

##Unkill
##Kill: Serela
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 20, 2013, 07:00:51 PM
Speeding Gumball
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98 (5)

Serela is at K-2

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
There are 4.0 Hours left in the night. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 07:08:14 PM
Could I get confirmation from people who are going to be around at deadline? Just in case, don't want a NL like last game's happening.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 20, 2013, 07:16:45 PM
I'm at #192. My post will probably be shit. Will probably jump on Serela. Will probably be around to secure any lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 20, 2013, 07:37:15 PM
Holy shit time constraints. My butt hurts because my bed has this dumb 'fence' since forever ago and that's what I'm sitting on right now. Won't have time to properly ~*~brain~*~ this, heart pls take over.

Affinity: My vote might have not been clear enough. I felt like Val's brief "i'm trying" opinions were't genuine, particularly it felt like he dropped his dislike of me as easy as it came (even if he was town speedreading things I don't get why he'd suddenly back off the way he did unless he decided he literally didn't want to bother with it), his early gut on Raikaria being a bad target still seems to come out of nowhere, and there's no reason as to why he sheeped to the thing on Dormio and nothing else. All seem like scum-motivated moves and not town-motivated.

SB: If you want my current take on VM-town, it's that they're trying way too hard to 'catch' the unreadables (BBM and myself in this case, shines through in #100) and I think it's coming from misguided town. Explains why they insist on points which are really pretty weak, maybe they're afraid of letting go of experienced scum or something.

Dormio why did you wait until voting Shadoweh to share your early stuff about her?

Shadoweh aren't you exaggerating when you say you've put more into this game than "the last 5 combined"?

Might have a change of heart wrt Validon. SB suspicion in #143 doesn't sound very newbscum or fake otherwise. (turns out to be a misunderstanding later but that doesn't matter) I think I'll postphone final judgement sometime later because I can't with the same confidence say that Validon should be the lynch for today anymore.

Conq's BBM case reminds me of the cases he usually pulls when he's town. Sounds like a horrible point but *_* this is better than nothing.

My instinctive reaction to the way BBM picked up Val is "too easy".

Oyup Serela exists and my eyes shined the moment VM mentioned "coasting on townreads". I see this and I agree with pretty much everything else now. I'll try being Pope Chuckoobeater this game from now on for the occasion. Disagree with Shadoweh's defense because Serela would have no reason to create crappy scumreads with no pressure on him.

Curious as to why VM thinks Affinity looks town. I'm generally bad at reading him so. SAME QUESTION FOR CONQ what.

Good time to address Shadoweh. I don't know anymore. Thought she was town-effort-ing it up earlier. I'm fucking awful at reading Shadoweh at the end of the day (unless she's scumbuddies with Serela).

In fact I think most of my reads are in the air at this point.

It's possible that scum!Conq would do this too (can't remember the last time I played with one) but the unvote revote unvote revote deadline waffle thing is making me read him as town.

BBM: As was said in #108 I updated some of the paragraphs halfway through which is why my opinion on Raikaria sounded that way. Also in case it isn't obvious from this post part of my mafia philosophy is just pointing out things I find off because they all have a chance of producing replies from scum (to answer why I noted you & SB). Seriously look at this mess of a post.

I will read at night.

##Unvote Validon, ##Vote Serela L-1 warning
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 20, 2013, 07:39:14 PM
##Unkill Validon, ##Kill Serela if it matters.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 08:36:32 PM
Wait wait wait a moment what the fuck.

Mitsuki just reminded me that the very first thing I posted in my hydra QT with Mitsuki was "So claiming VT in this setup would be a scumslip?". Serela claimed VT instead of Mafia Goon.
*would be push harder for lynch with this but he's at L-1 now so I'm happy*


Curious as to why VM thinks Affinity looks town. I'm generally bad at reading him so. SAME QUESTION FOR CONQ what

You know how Serela did that thing in that game as scum where he pretended to lose a big post right before deadline and told people to just hammer? Dormio pointed out that as town in that situation one would've tried to make the best use of the time available and try to summarize and put out the important points or at least an outline of the post to be filled later. Affinity reads like he barely has the time to read through the thread and is posting incomplete cases because he's prioritizing putting his vote on who he thinks is scum over filling out all of the reasoning for the vote
and pushing for it. That and he tries to give occasional reads and bits on other players he's not voting which also means he isn't purely concentrating on his vote and leaving all other options open to vote on. I dunno, I feel like scum!Affinity puts out posts that are higher quality overall probably due to proofchecking or trying to give off a better image or w/e.

It's not a very strong read, though. I also generally have a little trouble reading Affinity.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 08:49:44 PM
That last post came out as a mess because Mitsuki was showing me her latest cosplay through skype videochat and she's too beautiful to concentrate on mafia. I figure it's still understandable somewhat.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 08:52:03 PM
I don't really think calling himself a VT instead of a Goon is a scumslip. He might have just translated that into regular terms.

You did make me realize, however, that what would regularly be called as Mafia Goons might exist in this setup, since IIRC Zakeri said at some point that the concentration of PRs was low.  That removes the qualms I had about a vanilla claim, as Serela could just be vanilla scum.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BT on July 20, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
You could have let Serela respond to that instead.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 09:00:36 PM
SB are you sticking around long enough to hammer Serela if necessary? I'm pretty sure everybody else who's here now is already voting him.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 09:01:50 PM
I am distracted but around. When's deadline, an hour?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 09:04:34 PM
Two. There's some people who are supposed to be getting here barely before deadline but they'll have to read and stuff and last minute deadline panic is a very stressful thing, it'd be nice to know that somebody who has read the thread is around to hammer when time is about to run out.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 09:52:29 PM
Are you guys wagoning me last minute? That's so cute. My wagon is an RVS vote, a terrible vote, Dormio being Dormio and I haven't read Affinity's post but I assume it's because I went to sleep. You know, it's bad policy to give the opposite wagon the hammer. I can't magically see into Serela's heart every time. I don't have a town read on him at least. Why did the BBM wagon dissolve so fast? I think my main concern with the Serelawagon is it's unusual for him to get the attention he deserves if I'm not screaming at him.

Validon: Tch this is why I hate having to change my mind, it's so much easier to just push a lynch and cry later then admit I might be wrong before hand. I'm saying that your claim to have been busy before might be true because your posting has picked up afterwards, in both number and quality, if that makes sense.

Also 1 hour 7 minutes from my count.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 20, 2013, 09:56:34 PM
Pudding for Dinner
Validon98:    Shadoweh, Serious Bananas (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT (6)

Serela is at K-1

With 12 alive, it's takes 7 to decide the night kill.
There is only 1 Hour left in the night. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 20, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
That feels like an overreaction when you're probably not getting lynched today. How does Dormio being Dormio make his vote bad? And Affinity is voting you for your Validon case btw.

Also, there are 4 players other than you and Serela who could hammer Serela, one of whom has confirmed being there for deadline.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 10:01:59 PM
Conq you whore, how dare you imply that I would have trouble bussing Serela if he looked like a sinking ship at the first opportunity. You wonder why I can't get a read on him when the worst thing you can say about him is he isn't posting, and that it might be town or scum.  He's being useless but he's having trouble giving out a read other then Vhaltz is town, unless he's scum with Serious Bananas I'm not sure if he's just flooundering or not.

Pro-tip scum me knows people love votes so I prioritize looking good on a wagon over anything else. Not that anyone ever believes me when I tell them COMMON MAFIA SENSE.

BBM: Dormio's original case on me was based on a joke I made early game and he doesn't tend to change his mind no matter how much you argue with him. I'm not taking it as an alignment tell. I supose it doesn't matter for this game. I'm just flabbergasted by the QUALITY of wagons I accrue sometimes (it's reminiscent of C7D and I think my entire wagon there was town >_> )

Well Validon might be town so it might be a fair accusation. I literally just woke up so I'm still rereadin.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 10:08:20 PM
Re: VT claim stuff, it's possible Serela got tired of claiming something hard, his fakeclaims are sometimes so terrible they get him lynched, but I think I'd at least pressure him to claim cop to see if there is one in this setup. (Or roleclop I guess? A Mafia cop doesn't make much sense and he'd be able to sound excited about being it again.)

So yeah I don't think he'd claim vanilla is what I'm saying. This is awkward because I'm not going to vote myself.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 10:10:36 PM
Conq you whore, how dare you imply that I would have trouble bussing Serela if he looked like a sinking ship at the first opportunity. You wonder why I can't get a read on him when the worst thing you can say about him is he isn't posting, and that it might be town or scum.  He's being useless but he's having trouble giving out a read other then Vhaltz is town, unless he's scum with Serious Bananas I'm not sure if he's just flooundering or not.

P sure Conq just agreed with my case and started waffling on it when Serela claimed, then just needed to say something when voting Serela again because empty votes are not cool, and focused on how losing him as town if we're wrong wouldn't be that bad because that'd let him sleep with peace of mind.
Meaning that not posting wouldn't be the only thing that's he thinks is scummy etc.

Cut. Well I'm still pretty sure he's scum and we're not no lynching so.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 10:22:34 PM
So you think Conq was just making stuff up to get his vote back on Serela? :V I'm not sure how to take that. Focusing on how someone isn't an asset is insulting and basically what you say when you can't think of a reason they're actually scum.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 10:27:59 PM
Eh, nope I must've worded that really weird. Conq is townie mctownman.
It's more like he was just putting his vote back on Serela because it was still the best thing he could do and he was trying to convince himself that it was a good idea to do so because he was all waffles on him. Going to sleep when putting your vote down on somebody you suspect might actually be town is hard.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 10:40:34 PM
Are you guys wagoning me last minute? That's so cute. My wagon is an RVS vote, a terrible vote, Dormio being Dormio and I haven't read Affinity's post but I assume it's because I went to sleep. You know, it's bad policy to give the opposite wagon the hammer. I can't magically see into Serela's heart every time. I don't have a town read on him at least. Why did the BBM wagon dissolve so fast? I think my main concern with the Serelawagon is it's unusual for him to get the attention he deserves if I'm not screaming at him.

So basically a vote that means nothing, two votes that you disagree with and a vote that you haven't even bothered reading the reason for. That's only two or three serious votes on you out of the seven needed. There's also what BBM said about you overreacting when you're probably not getting lynched. I don't like it.

How many minutes?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 20, 2013, 10:41:51 PM
Affinity said he would post why he's voting me later, and later doesn't appear to have come yet. Coaching my scumbuddies is more of a QT event. I agree with what Vhaltz said about AffiniBadPerson posting more flowery for lack of a better word. So basically other then Raitaki you're all probtown, go away you dopes.

The problem is other then Validon there's no one else to lynch right now, and people are against that lynch enough that I've been taking heat for pushing it. The buddy talk is annoying because Serela isn't going to flip green + Day 1 buddies lewl. I'm annoyed that Serela didn't make a last reads post so I could at least try to push a Raitaki Wonder Wagon.

I agree that voting Your Side and pushing a case on Your Side despite doubts makes your stomach hurt. Objectively if you're resorting to that kind of evidence someone else should have stepped in and stopped this from going through. Serela wasn't even a legit wagon before I went to sleep.

19 mins. And I have clearly read the reasoning now that I've had time thank you very much.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 10:46:55 PM
Yep, the last minute "shit he might flip town" is here just like when we lynched Pyoa Aaaa. If Town!Serela just gave up I'll be very disappointed =/

No time for wonderwagons and I don't think lynching Shadoweh over Serela is a good idea, might as well just man up and just see what the flip turns out to be. Here's hoping he really is the scumlord he's been posting like.

Less than 15 minutes now I say hammer as late as 10 mins to the deadline.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 20, 2013, 10:50:01 PM
No change in voting
10 Minutes Remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T18&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Night+1)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 10:50:51 PM
Any objections to me hammering now then?

I think a last minute lynch switch to Shadoweh would be pretty silly right now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 20, 2013, 10:52:20 PM
I just mentioned that just in case you were implying we should do that in your last post.

Hammer away.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: SB on July 20, 2013, 10:53:29 PM
Just checking.

##Unkill
##Kill: Serela


revenge for villains
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 20, 2013, 10:57:06 PM
NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

It is now Morning
You all wake up to find the body of Serela with a bullet wound in him.
Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are Serela, The Final Nail in the Coffin. Or you would be if you were a part of the Mafia.
Instead, You are the Town Mason. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill, the town lynch, and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You win when your faction (town) collectively holds voting majority over the nightkill.
It is now Day 2. You may go about your daily business, but remember to keep hush on the game content. We don't want to alert the town!
If you have any day actions, please submit them to Me and PX via PM.
Day ends in Approximately 24 hours from now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 11:34:47 PM
Man, I went to sleep and woke up and this happened.
But I sure am doing that thing again.
I got myself Fallout 3 two days ago during the steam summer sale.
So considering I got the bloody game two days ago, had to spend time downloading it twice with shitty Australian internet, spent an hour or two modding it, and got in a couple of games of DotA 2, why do I have 17 hours logged on this thing? Bloody hell.
Fuck this steam summer sale.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 11:39:35 PM
Speaking of DotA. Man, DotA is way too hard for me.
One of these days the despair that DotA causes will make me start solo queuing again. Seriously.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 11:40:43 PM
Also, that whole trading card system that Steam implemented?
Fuck that shit.
Holy fuck trading takes up way too much of my time.
And since they're putting in cards for so many games I have to log like 2+ more hours on each of them. Screw that noise.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 20, 2013, 11:57:03 PM
And then there was the player card system for DotA. Oh man. Screw that too.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 21, 2013, 12:04:57 AM
Games are supposed to be a fun thing man, take it easy
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 21, 2013, 12:11:03 AM
Games? Fun? The hell are you smoking?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 21, 2013, 12:32:27 AM
I've spent 5 bucks on the steam sale for 51 bucks worth of games (And got 51 cent back so far)
Am I winning?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 21, 2013, 12:35:58 AM
In fact it occurs to me I haven't played one of them yet OHH DOES THIS MEAN I HAVE A BACKLOG NOW? I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE, WHAT SHOULD I DO? Should I go one random forums and complain about how I own a video game I haven't played yet? ooh this is so exciting. :ohdear:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: BT on July 21, 2013, 01:01:05 AM
Anyone here play Touhou?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: BT on July 21, 2013, 01:01:41 AM
They're shmups. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmups)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 21, 2013, 01:48:27 AM
I got Master of Orion 1 and 2 from a GoG thing. I've been avoiding the STeam Sales, they only serve to piss me off because my paypal won't let me work since it's like OMG YOU'RE IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY! WE MUST PROTECT YOUR ASSERTS! It'll still let me buy Humble stuff at least..
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 21, 2013, 03:24:32 AM
Ah poooool parties.  they are the fun
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 21, 2013, 04:53:16 AM
Can anyone recommend a good anime for me to watch? There's only a finite number of Shakugan no Shana episodes, and Hidan no Aria won't last forever either.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 21, 2013, 05:03:04 AM
Can anyone recommend a good anime for me to watch? There's only a finite number of Shakugan no Shana episodes, and Hidan no Aria won't last forever either.

PLANETES

best slice of life set 75 years in the future.  And the idea is realistic.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 21, 2013, 05:04:16 AM
DearS
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 21, 2013, 05:14:19 AM
Boku no Pico

DearS

This is also good
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 21, 2013, 08:21:34 AM
Can anyone recommend a good anime for me to watch? There's only a finite number of Shakugan no Shana episodes, and Hidan no Aria won't last forever either.

Sexy Commando Gaiden
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on July 21, 2013, 08:24:33 AM
Can anyone recommend a good anime for me to watch? There's only a finite number of Shakugan no Shana episodes, and Hidan no Aria won't last forever either.
space brothers

unironic suggestion

also im watching kaiji as of today and it owns but i assume most people here have already seen it.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 21, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
also im watching kaiji as of today and it owns but i assume most people here have already seen it.

This was going to be my first suggestion but I figured everybody had already watched it. Akagi by the same author is also a nice thing.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 21, 2013, 11:22:45 PM
Day 2 is Over
BBM Has been Lynched

Quote from: Town Mafia Role
You are BigBangMeteor, the the Unidentified Crafty.
You are the Mafia Governor. Once per day you may select one person. That person will be unable to be lynched for the duration of that day. You may not select the same person twice in a row. Beyond that you have your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.

Night 2 will last for 72 hours. Countdown will be up in a few.
With 10 alive, it will take 6 votes to decide the kill.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 21, 2013, 11:35:19 PM
so he was a doctor.  basically.

um.

##Vote: Raitaki
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 21, 2013, 11:42:23 PM
I'd normally wait for others before posting my own thoughts but I feel like I'm suspected / looked at funny enough to warrant going first-ish.

I'm giving BBM a break until further notice. I think it's less likely that Serela would engage in fluffy nothing-talk when his scumbuddy was involved (at the receiving end of VM's arguments), and there's his early Serela vote too. welp thanks

It's tempting to think that Shadoweh is Serela's husbando, but then I don't get her response to her wagon here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999352.html#msg999352). If she's town, she's concerned over a possible wagon on her and is trying to subdue it in a very derptown-like way (addressing the strength of the wagon). If she's scum... what? I don't know, it seems weird if that's the case. No reason to fret over your wagon like that when there's another better-off wagon and it's your whiteflag'd scumbuddy. There's also this:

Re: VT claim stuff, it's possible Serela got tired of claiming something hard, his fakeclaims are sometimes so terrible they get him lynched, but I think I'd at least pressure him to claim cop to see if there is one in this setup. (Or roleclop I guess? A Mafia cop doesn't make much sense and he'd be able to sound excited about being it again.)

So yeah I don't think he'd claim vanilla is what I'm saying. This is awkward because I'm not going to vote myself.
The buddy talk is annoying because Serela isn't going to flip green + Day 1 buddies lewl. I'm annoyed that Serela didn't make a last reads post so I could at least try to push a Raitaki Wonder Wagon.

To be frank I don't think a Serelabuddy at that stage was likely to still have fighting spirit especially since Serela himself had skipped the end of the day entirely. Instead I see it much more likely that Shadoweh actually thought this was a wrong lynch.

To compare to GHW, Shadoweh's reasons for buddying Serela then had no logical basis and were an obvious link when the latter flipped. Here... not so much. I can see step by step why Shadoweh would have thought to oppose the Serela wagon as town in this game. I also don't see reason to suspect the rest of her play as opposed to plenty of others - dropping Val, for example, was completely logical for the reasons she stated herself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999352.html#msg999352), and it's something that crossed my mind as well.

Reading back, I don't get Dan's change of opinion on Serela. The way in which he says it (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999064.html#msg999064) makes it seem like his posts are what made the opinion, not the time gap or whatever else (lurking [and the timing of it] was the primary factor in yesterday's lynch and iirc this is what VM thought changed Dan's mind). Basically it looked like he responded on impulse to the same thing in two different ways. (the first way) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998682.html#msg998682) Doesn't even matter that Serela flipped scum - inconsistent impulse-based reads cast doubt on their owner's honesty.

Add to that that I disagree with his case on BBM after BBM's response. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999075.html#msg999075) A townie may very well respond to an accusation that way and it's premature judgement to declare it scummy in a snap. Not that this isn't par for the course with Dan, but it's certainly not helping my opinion right now considering it's the only substantiated opinion from him during D1.

1. ActionDan
3. Dormio
6. Raitaki
9. Affinity
12. Serious Bananas

This is THE IFFY LIST currently. I want to give the rest of these folks a look. Except for Raitaki who needs to exist. I have very faint Angel Beats vibes from Affinity (what the fuck) but with the townreads others are throwing at him I'd rather not think about it too hard (Conq help). Maybe drop him from the list then, I don't know.

I think Val will be easier to read over time. I'm still not so sure. I don't feel that it's pressing.

##Kill ActionDan might change after I get a read on the others.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 21, 2013, 11:45:00 PM
blah blah blah, you're wasting your words BT.   
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 21, 2013, 11:46:58 PM
Don't expect me to think they're a waste anytime soon with those responses.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 21, 2013, 11:50:13 PM
don't care lol.

but it seems only a paragraph of that post concerns me reading it now.   So I suppose it's short enough to answer. 

My change in opinion on Serela was due to reading the content of the posts with a more examining eye.  They were 1) full of terrible reasoning and 2) not really saying much at all.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 21, 2013, 11:55:05 PM
It was easy to see 2) though, no need for "a more examining eye". Plus I don't see how that conflicts with "style of posts" from earlier. I thought you felt he was town at first because his posting seemed town regardless of what they contained.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 21, 2013, 11:58:11 PM
Okay, so I' am going to have to do some hour for a couple hours, but I can say some quick things before I come back (summer studies program=homework in summer, woot):
BT is bringing up some fair points on ActionDan, which is stuff I didn't catch because I was too busy getting myself distracted with Shadoweh and BBM. Dan's... really not doing anything, almost like Serela but not exactly. And with Serela flipping scum (or town or whatever, blah blah blah flavor) and BBM flipping town (or scum, blah blah blah flavor) means that Dan's likely scum. Dan's "lol, here's my reads with little to know explanation for a majority of them" really sets my teeth on edge further.

#Kill: ActionDan

Raitaki also needs to seriously be existing.

Cut: BT is hitting it right on the head: If Serela's posts were "not really saying much at all," then what's with the examining eye thing? You don't need an examining eye to read nothing. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 21, 2013, 11:59:38 PM
*so I'm going to have to do some work for a couple hours

Damn typos.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 12:08:04 AM
Now that I've finished chewing on my own foot, rereading Serela doesn't leave any connections I think, beyond Vhaltz being on our side and Serela spending his time bapping at him. The other notable out of place thing is him mentioning SB's vote, but that's also a way he tries to work suspicions into his posts. I don't exactly see anything untowards in SB's posts themselves. Basically Serela is a useless bum and I hope he enjoys dining in hell.

I really don't get why BBM died tbh, that's a weird pick considering he was a running wagon, and that he and Vhaltz were causing so much white noise with each other. Maybe they just wanted to make Vhaltz depressed? Wonky scumteam is wonky. I haven't done enough extensive thinking over what happened to re-evaluate, but I'll start looking over the Serela catapult. (Oh, he was the first one voting Serela and pretty much caused everyone to look at him. I still don't feel like that's enough though.)

BT, I'm biased because he was discouraging voting me, but Dan was quick to stop Conq from switching from Serela to me, keeping the Serela wagon on rails. I don't know, I get more of a hipster vibe then a Shirley Temple that will give me nightmares forever pic. I haven't wanted to keel him and Dan is usually easy to keel. (I will note that after some rereading I feel alot better about BT himself, I forgot about the early game goodness.)

Re: Affinity, how do people's townreads hold in light of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999170.html#msg999170) about Serela?

Lastly, someone sent me a Number One Dad mug. I don't even know what to say. At least someone thinks I'm number one!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 12:12:24 AM
I'm here to look at the flip but no real update until tomorrow.

I reread and did some ISO's during the night/day/whatever in case I got to live and I think I got some nice stuff out of it. Affinity is even townier than before, BT went 180? into probstown avenue, Shadoweh is possibly not so scum and BBM was town but now everybody knows that. Conq didn't die so I'm ??? on that unless scum really wanted to secure a kill after getting their buddy lynched and decided to kill somebody who wasn't one of the two possible doc targets. Even then I'm still raising my eyebrow a little because Scum!Conq let me live in C7D for no apparent reason. Are you scum again Conq.
Everything I got out of the reread is sort of all spread out across the QT and I didn't want to make a post only to find myself dead so I have to go through everything again and get stuff sorted out in my head before I put down a vote.

Would like SB to post stuff in a non-chronological format and posts from Raitaki.

Gotta sleep I get up in something like 5 hours. Cut by Dan. Do you have a case or something?
Cuts cuts cuts
Well fuck BT we thought the same thing about Shadoweh. I would think Shadoweh!scum with 4 votes on her and 6 votes on her buddy Serela at 1 hour from deadline would bus like the fist of the north star instead of waffling on Serela expecting something to magically happen to save her scumteam, because there's no longer any time left to do any weird last minute wagons.

I'd comment on more things but bedtime really now I'm going to be a zombie tomorrow.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: SB on July 22, 2013, 12:15:35 AM
blah blah blah, you're wasting your words BT.

This is a horrible reaction. Handwaving BT's case like that looks pretty scummy.

Really Dan hasn't said very much all game, I've already said I'd like a vig on the slot since he was inactive and kind of suspect, but really his listpost yesterday with reads was god awful, he was "kind of scummy" on Serela which would let him go either way on him, and his main (active) suspect has flipped town. He doesn't even say WHY he finds Rai scummy, even though he'd apparently be "equally happy" with their lynch. He didn't even bother justifying his vote today, either.

##Vote: ActionDan
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 22, 2013, 12:16:48 AM
adsgagrear

##Kill Shadoweh

Will read Dan and Bananas in more depth later. Maybe.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 12:25:02 AM
Because I am Dan's best bro and we are totally getting married dontcha know, I supose I'll try and explain more thuroughly, comparing to Miss Evil Temple. In Wannabe Sereley, DanTemple posted nothing until people were asking him about his vote, where he stayed on the defensive and threw out scumreads on people accusing him in a 'I know you are but what am I' kind of way. He'd also decided Hinafaec was the best townie to defend and he could hang around doing nothing but telling people how wrong they were to fight with her (lol just like Serela here actually). He's also really wordy. Really big wordedly wordy.

What I'm saying is this is nothing like what he's showing you right now, his first post here is opinions on what's going on, stating his feelings on both people, then spelling out all of his reads, the thing you're holding him to now in the first place. It might be a bit weird that he thought Serela was okay at first (except so did everyone else?), but after that he's consistent about stating intent to vote Serela, then following it up.

What I'm saying is I don't think Dan is scum. Yes. Not wasting words on fluff is different from not saying anything at all.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 12:40:10 AM
Shadoweh: BBM NK was probably to avoid likely doc targets. Was a good outside target because of the early place on Serela's wagon. (and a few people stating Serela's scumflip would make him seem town) I completely missed that "don't want" post by Dan you're talking about, not sure what to think. In any case it would be nice to have more things to work with. You sure Scum Dan wouldn't post like this? DEFCON might be a good source.

SB:

This is a horrible reaction. Handwaving BT's case like that looks pretty scummy.

I think this is jumping the gun.

Reminder that I will establish things better tomorrow etcetera.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 12:50:43 AM
Using said logic, I should consolidate my persons of interest list.
Sexy people:  ActionDan, Vhaltzo, Raioqueror, BT
Persons of interest: Raitaki, Validon, Dormio, Affinity, Bananas
I don't even know if I can hold Raitaki being on the non-scum wagon against him because he wasn't fucking here for half of Day 1. If people want to move Affinity and Validon off the interests lists (I haven't looked to see if Vali did anything interesting related to Serela, but I do find it interesting that Serela never defended him like Vhaltz, and that he wanted to 'vote Validon the least). It does narrow down the day. And I expect people will continue bouncing on Dan because you don't recognize my genius. There isn't alot of rereading I can do relating to Affinity and Rairai since they have equal amounts of time spent actually playing the mafia this game :V

Cut: You mean the part where he drove a case based on a scumslip that never happened, then called everyone voting him scum and only replied to people to explain his case? :V I think it's a similar thing.

brb being forced barefoot into the kitchen ;_;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 22, 2013, 01:25:49 AM
Bedcount
Raitaki:            ActionDan (1)
ActionDan:      BT, Validon98, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:     Dormio (1)

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to kill.
You have 69.5 Hours left in the day (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130724T18&p0=2374&msg=Night+2)
v--Because I forgot numbers.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 01:41:39 AM
Whoa, hold the phone here: How is ActionDan at K-2 if it takes six votes to lynch?
Also, something I didn't mention earlier because I wasn't sure if it was important or not: It's Dormio's "day" posts. They're all about complaining about Steam or something. It's kind of reminding me a bit of Polaris/Celery's role where he posted a bunch of celery puns in order to fulfill a condition for a new power. Whether it's true or not I don't know, but it set off an alarm in my head.
@Shadoweh: Dan didn't really explain all of his reads, though. For example, he doesn't explain why he thought I was town despite the big wagon piling on me. If I was such a big deal, why did he more or less ignore it before? I wasn't the only one who noticed that. I forget who did, but I know I wasn't the only one.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 02:11:08 AM
I think if he'd gone into detail explaining why you're town rather then why the scummy people were scum it would have been more of a waste of time. Keep in mind this is immediately after lynching Serela for spending his time defending Vhaltz to death.

Also, I note there isn't a 'it takes X to lynch' either. There's some shenanigans afoot.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 02:49:44 AM
Hmm... there could be a hate spreader. The problem is is that it could be town or scum, so it doesn't necessarily imply Dan as either one. That or it's a repeat of what you did in Rewrite, as in it could be voluntary. I would suspect you of being involved, but you're also pointing it out, which you couldn't do in Rewrite, so I don't think it's you for once.
Of course, I'm not going to try to go too in depth into it. The last time I went into depth with it things went bad (although I remember from the Mod QT and everything that Dormio already caught it before I pointed it out so it's not my fault yet I of course made all of the mods laugh at my "I'M SO SORRY" reaction).
ENOUGH OF THAT THOUGH.

And on Dan, I guess that's true. Still, his handwaving of BT's argument is fishy. I still don't trust him.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: PX on July 22, 2013, 02:59:53 AM
I Give Up On Pretending to Have Died Votecount
Raitaki:            ActionDan (1)
ActionDan:      BT, Validon98, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:     Dormio (1)
Not voting:     Everybody else

ActionDan is at K-3
With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to nightkill.
You have 68 Hours left in the day (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130724T18&p0=2374&msg=Night+2)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 03:03:04 AM
...Okay, never mind then.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 22, 2013, 03:08:26 AM
Firstly, an explanation of my D1 Shadoweh vote. Back then she looked scummy cuz despite the amount of words she posted, it was mostly stuff like commenting on people's play (not alignment) and why X is not scummy, and the actual parts about why/who are scummy were tiny. Though that was still kind of early in the game so I'll look at her again.

This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998608.html#msg998608) doesn't particularly look good to me. "Probably mislynch victims" strongly implies that Shadoweh wasn't sure Raikaria and BBM were really in the informed minority; this is further reflected in her explanation paragraphs, which imo doesn't really accuse anyone of being scummy, and also implies forgiveness if content improves, which again is pretty much calling their plays bad, not scummy, while still leaving open the possibility of pressing onto them if desired. It looks like neither scumreads nor scumhunting, but a load of "you should stop this or I'LL PUSH YOU". Meanwhile the crux of her Validon push was "this is not like his normal meta". While I can't say that is an inherently scummy argument, it's still an easy and safe claim for scum to make w/o people taking much of a problem against it cuz meta is subjective. She also didn't have any definitive opinion about the quality/scumminess of Validon's actual content, rather just focused on comparing it to his past games.

But then uhhhh the near-deadline part. That's quite some soft defending of Serela. I don't think any scum would defend sinking Serela D1 when they're the counterwagon, but then again busing Serela is expected so nwjhef  jeewf WIFOMs. Dunno what this says about Shadoweh's alignment. Aaand as of D2 I haven't seen Shadoweh done anything to scumhunt, unless you count throwing around townreads. Would lynch.

ActionDan: I can see why he's having a wagon on him. But on the other hand, voting him is easy as hell and he's not even TRYING to be helpful or town, and Dan usually posts little as both alignments until later anyway, so I dunno about him yet. I guess he's on the level of the average lurker in my book, which isn't very high up the lynch-o-meter.

to be continued
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 22, 2013, 03:28:53 AM
I realize I have been a bit narrow-minded yesterday; everything I've said has Validon as a pivot.  Despite Validon's one-sided D1 (he only spoke original stuff on BBM, addressing Serela only at the last moment), I still think he's town. His responses regarding my qns on the BBM case make me feel that he is earnest. 

I was tired two days ago and thought Serela town, so I remembered Shadoweh's day-long push and sudden drop (did not mention this) on Validon (which I did not like) and called it a day.  But now I don't really think Shadoweh is a right lynch precisely because of her dropping Validon, which seemed rather graceful.  If scum!Shadoweh really wanted to defend Serela I would imagine that she would push her Validon case more rather than suspend judgement and ask clarifying questions, so yeah.

##Kill: Serious Bananas

Don't like SB the most, and despite his amount of content, I don't think it is all that great or illuminating.  He spent D1 voting Vhaltz and Validon, and he fleshes his suspicions out really well according to his own lines, nitpicking their posts constantly.  But Vhaltz gave mad theories and Validon had many null reads, and I think that they are rather easily attackable, especially for scum looking to lay low but not too low (if Vhaltz and Validon are town, which I think they are). 

I remember he thought BBM as town, but he did not give much on Shadoweh and Serela, the people relevant to yesterday's end-state.  The fact that he throws away his Validon and Vhaltz completely while going for something rude ActionDan said also makes me suspect him a lot.  So... yeah.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 22, 2013, 03:31:08 AM
Quote from: Shadoweh
Re: Affinity, how do people's townreads hold in light of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999170.html#msg999170) about Serela?

Can you rephrase this question?

===

Will talk more on BT a bit more later.  On ActionDan, I don't find him interesting at all; he's merely typical this game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 22, 2013, 03:34:07 AM
@Dormio, Raitiki:

Do you seriously think there were double scum wagons on D1 (again?).  If so who do you think were bussing?

Also, Raitiki, how do you find Shadoweh's pushing of Validon different from BT's?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 22, 2013, 04:02:51 AM
Affinity: Barely posted anything at all, so not much to look at. Though I wonder what happened to his issues with BT's vote on Validon. Also the "Expecting too much maybe?" in his post voting BT makes it sound like he wasn't too sure about it and was just grabbing something slightly out of place to vote, but by #141 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998906.html#msg998906) it suddenly escalated into an accusation of BT conveniently molding reasons to fit the specific situation he was voting Validon for, but then by #172 he switched to Shadoweh without any sign of remembering BT existed at all. Affinity, what was going on here?

-cut- @Affinity: Double scum wagons aren't really something scum can control, what's wrong with one happening again? Also, to answer your question, a good chunk of Shadoweh's push on Validon hinged on how different his behaviour is from last game, but gave little thought to Validon's actual content itself. Meanwhile from what I've seen BT voted Validon D1 solely over the fact his content suggested he wasn't paying attention. That's kind of on opposite sides of a spectrum. Where did this question come from again?
Blarp stop sidetracking me and making me reread again D:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 22, 2013, 04:08:56 AM
Also since I haven't seen any real issues with other people yet I'll ##Kill: Shadoweh for the time being
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 04:31:10 AM
Affinimu: Well, I'm not asking what your opinion on yourself is, but it was an odd defense of Serela. I was asking other people if they still thought you were town from it. You did go out of your way to explain your thoughts on it though. (I imagine you would have less trouble bussing Serela then any of us!)

Raitaki: :V It is almost like Validon's posts had no content, and once his posts improved with the content I was looking for I stopped wanting to vote him. As for wagons not being something scum can control, that's not really true. You're saying that both me and Serela got bored of trying to push against other people at the same time, ensuring that scum had no control of who was getting lynched, while Serela voteparked on me the entire time.

And I'm not sure of anyone who's in the informed minority, because I'm not a part of them and I'm not psychic. It would be a short game otherwise.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 22, 2013, 04:32:44 AM
Meep(o).

##Unkill Shadoweh

Don't like Raitaki one bit.
D1 doesn't have much content, I suppose that's excusable given ~reasons~ but let's look at the content that is there.
I don't like the defending of Vhaltz here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998498.html#msg998498).
Also two biggest scumreads at that point are Shadoweh and Raikaria and one of his points against Shadoweh is that she is only attacking Validon and Raikaria. Of course this has probably been mentioned before but whatever.
Raitaki's D2 is amusing to me. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999915.html#msg999915) in particular is hilarious for reasons undisclosed.
Tempted to vote.

Dislike Dan, but there's nothing really to talk about.
Would probably vote if there weren't more tasty options available.

Reading through Bananas doesn't interest me at all.

##Kill Raitaki

I'll probably read more people later but I'm feeling lazy and ~steam summer sale~
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 04:34:49 AM
So how about you tell us what you think of people who aren't Dan and Shadoweh, because right now I'm your only suspect and since I feel confidently over the Day 1 getting lynched speedbump you're probably not going to get that wagon suceeded anytime soon.

Cut: Dormio let's go get married in the scum QT again <^_^> If we kill all the other scum it's like being a hydra right?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 22, 2013, 04:35:51 AM
hmm.

I'll have to read Raitaki's further posts sometime tomorrow. 

I think that the duel shadoweh Serela wagons is definitely good enough to make Shadoweh not a good lynch, and probably town.  It's just how these things go.  Also Vhaltz, Conq, Shadoweh, Validon are still town.

I sort of agree with Affinity that SB had nitpicky posts, but they seemed homogenous, in that he nitpicked everybody so.. I'll have to look at that again.  And maybe look at Dormio.

oh cuts.  oh, is hilarity ensuing? that seems like fun

cuts cuts
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 22, 2013, 04:38:33 AM
btw Raitaki, "possibly mislynches victims" is a joke....  Like if we lynch town, it's a mislynch... harhar get it? 
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 04:46:48 AM
We'd all love to see the marriage, Shadoweh. ^^;

In seriousness, looking at Dan's recent posts he's improving, although him handwaving BT's think urks me a little bit. Granted, SB urks me too and I haven't voted him. Hmm... not sure what to think on them personally. They're probably the scummiest but there's still Affinity and Raitaki and I'm not sure what to think of them. Also a few people haven't posted yet so I want to wait for their opinions on current matters.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 05:41:02 AM
Managed to read through just before having to leave

Dormio what do you think of people aside from your vote (Raitaki) and those who make you terribly apathetic (SB/Dan)?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 22, 2013, 06:02:43 AM
Dan is making me apathetic? I think you're misunderstanding.
It's just that Dan has virtually nothing to his name that makes him noteworthy.
I do want him lynched, but would rather see Raitaki go.

As for everyone else, I don't really care about them right now. I don't see why I should care.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 10:13:19 AM
##Unkill ActionDan

I'll drop it for now. Mind you, he did vote BBM(town) at a critical point, and despite discouraging a Shadoweh vote and saying he could lynch Serela, he never did so until Conq did. But all this still probably went before Serela had time to raise the white flag. Whatever.

Affinity brought up what would have been my main gripe with SB, but aside from that I'm fairly content with his posts when I'm reading them right now. It's weird.

You know what? Votecounts.

First Votecount
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Raitaki:    BT (1)
Serela:    Shadoweh (1)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo (2)

First DEATHCOUNT
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh (2)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Incoming Count
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, ActionDan (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh, BBM, Dormio (4)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Dust in the Wind
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio (3)
BBM:     Conqueror, Validon, ActionDan (3)
BT:    Affinity (1)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Dust Kick Slide
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
BBM:     Validon, ActionDan (2)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Speeding Gumball
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98 (5)

Pudding for Dinner
Validon98:    Shadoweh, Serious Bananas (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT (6)

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

Lovely Replace All, the rest of the post is nbd. I'll continue this sometime later.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 11:25:23 AM
##Unkill ActionDan

I'll drop it for now. Mind you, he did vote BBM(town) at a critical point, and despite discouraging a Shadoweh vote and saying he could lynch Serela, he never did so until Conq did. But all this still probably went before Serela had time to raise the white flag. Whatever.

Affinity brought up what would have been my main gripe with SB, but aside from that I'm fairly content with his posts when I'm reading them right now. It's weird.

You know what? Votecounts.

First Votecount
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Raitaki:    BT (1)
Serela:    Shadoweh (1)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo (2)

First DEATHCOUNT
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh (2)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Incoming Count
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, ActionDan (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh, BBM, Dormio (4)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Dust in the Wind
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio (3)
BBM:     Conqueror, Validon, ActionDan (3)
BT:    Affinity (1)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Dust Kick Slide
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
BBM:     Validon, ActionDan (2)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Speeding Gumball
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98 (5)

Pudding for Dinner
Validon98:    Shadoweh, Serious Bananas (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT (6)

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

Lovely Replace All, the rest of the post is nbd. I'll continue this sometime later.
quoting this because blue on yellow makes my eyes burn otherwise
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 22, 2013, 11:32:04 AM
My eyes burn regardless. Discrimination against the colorblind!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 11:41:23 AM
I forgot what colors you had trouble with. Sorry. :(
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 22, 2013, 11:49:49 AM
It's fine, I just look at the BBcoding anyway.

So are you going to do anything with the votecounts or are they just there?

Also I guess I'll try to get another post out before I go to sleep or something.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 11:53:19 AM
Maybe later. I just think there's merit in looking at the wagons before Serelarising. If I can't find anything but others can, that's fine too (and is the point of posting VCs like that).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 11:59:50 AM
He has troubles with red and green. That's why his posts are always so confusing, he can never tell what alignment he is! I also like how you caught all the mod spelling errors.
I think I would find it odd if Dan and Validon scum had fled BBM in order to crush Serela full force. Validon even had a good reason to jump on me after I was attacking him all day. Vhaltz deciding he suddenly hated Serela would just be plain uncalled for. With my own assurances about BT, that leaves either Bananas being available in case we wanted to lynch myself, Conq being Serela's buddy, or the idea that nearly the entire town besides me decided Serela needed to die with no bussing, yet the scum being two out of three of the biggest bussers in history. Raitaki wasn't here, so his motive for not bussing would be literally missing the wagon.

What I'm thinking probably needs more proof to be uttered. My battery is kind of running out though so you'll have to wait till tomorrow for it.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 12:14:17 PM
I can think of several reasons for why BBM might have been killed over me or Vhaltz but the most immediately relevant is that Vhaltz and me were both calling hard for Shadoweh's head at the end of yesterday. Unfortunately for my Pictures of Birds Revenge Scenario, this only works with Shadoweh town, which I'm coming around to given the way Shadoweh's opened today.

But Shadoweh, why wouldn't you offer to hammer Serela yesterday when he was your counterwagon? Also, what were your thought on BBM etc at the time you made that post giving up on the Validon wagon? (Also, preemptively looking for bussers on a scum wagon which might not be there is as dumb a mafia-finding tactic as it always has been and I will fight you every time you use that strategy. Bring it, sister.)

Anyway, I don't think I can see any team besides Raitaki and SB at this point.

##Kill Raitaki first because then it'll get you people to stop wanting to kill Dan and Dormio. I'll make more detailed posts later.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 12:27:16 PM
Mmm. I logged on to check in case I was needed for hammering. There was someone around to hammer but not enough votes to do anything else so I was kind of in a funk. I made the comment that handing the hammer to the person's counterwagon is stupid already. Not me over me is the most unhelpful reason to vote. That said I don't think I ever implied I wouldn't hammer Serela if no one else was around, it's the kind of thing people should assume without being said.

My thoughts on BBM were conflicted. It's not worth talking about much right now since he's dead. Let's just say Day 1 was unclear for me and I'm rather glad it's over because I don't operate well without data to chew on. (You tell me not to look at bussers but even you admit there probably is one :V It's a short list dood)

I was about to say I was town that game but I'm thinking of Adorable >.> I was a p cool owl that game bus all buddies and didn't afraid of anything.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 12:34:16 PM
(You tell me not to look at bussers but even you admit there probably is one :V It's a short list dood)
(If you had hammered, then with my working scumteam theory there would have been no bussers on the wagon. :V)

I JUST dislike pigeonholding assumptions in general. I have FAITH in that the POWER OF SCUMHUNTING will reveal all.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
anyway since im pretty sure this game is now easy modo in terms of reads lockdown im going to be lazy and post freeform because it takes like half the effort

like bt's proactive opening post, and the read turn on shadoweh and detailed defense of her is something i dont think he'd do as scum especially given his position on her the previous day (im also using as a benchmark stuff like scumbt in disgaea where bt held on to the dumbest case on me for forever and i still havent forgiven you for getting away with it); as the first person to give a position on shadoweh today his post would be important in how the momentum in the case on her went and bt basically tried to shut down that avenue before it even got started, which is plus!town points. aside from that im actually pretty null on bt (disagree with the dan case btw more on that further down) but it's enough to make me want to read him as town because scum dont want to be dropping potential mislynches after a day 1 scum lynch (the one exception would be btxshadoweh otp but i really dont think that's the case)

dont see a problem with affinity's serela defense given that shadoweh said basically the same things (and i dont think they're scum together). anyway my townread on affinity stems from the fact that i can pretty much follow his train of thought and i like his posts; there's a good balance of scumhunting and defending his townreads and most of it is ~original~ and agreeable. he just feels really genuine.
also this particular line feels townie for a reason i cant explain
This is only like 15% of my normal town self so please stay tuned.
in any case im not interested in an affinity lynch.

not interested in a dan lynch either; imo it's pretty clear that the town feel he got from serela's posts was from not reading them carefully ("style of posts") and he changed his mind without any prompting upon reading more closely (now serela "posts badly", which doesnt conflict with dan originally finding his style of posts townie). unless you can explain to me why scum dan thought it would be a good idea to suddenly switch reads on his scumbuddy for no reason at all and have it draw attention to himself later on? dan also actively dissuaded me from the shadoweh wagon and supported the serela lynch (even though he didn't move until after i voted, but what would scum dan have to gain from just sitting on a bbm lynch that was increasingly unlikely to happen while i gravitated towards a serela lynch?)

validon why do you immediately agree with points as soon as someone else makes them? also, you talked about shadoweh association reads yesterday in your vote post for serela so why do i see nothing about them today when you immediately go oh yeah dan is scum yep listen to that bt vote dan die the death dan? that said, i think the fact that serela said he wanted to vote validon the least points more towards validon not being serela's buddy because i dont think serela would say that about a buddy that wasn't obvtown; shadoweh can you back me on this?

i think if killing raitaki and sb doesn't end the game validon might be a decent option. im reading everyone else as town.

also vhaltz i didnt make the n1 kill decision in c7d; it was pesco, you know, the person who was attacking you all game :V  that said you were an obvious doc target in c7d so you would have been a bad kill choice anyway

making another post because no one will read this if it gets too big.. in fact im pretty sure half of you arent going to read this anyway so im saving the good stuff for the next post.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
This post gets formatting because people are more likely to care about what's in it anyway!

Actually now that I'm here and trying to make a post it's not coming out. But anyway, read Raitaki's Shadoweh case. It's probably the most laughable case I've ever seen.

This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998608.html#msg998608) doesn't particularly look good to me. "Probably mislynch victims" strongly implies that Shadoweh wasn't sure Raikaria and BBM were really in the informed minority; this is further reflected in her explanation paragraphs, which imo doesn't really accuse anyone of being scummy, and also implies forgiveness if content improves, which again is pretty much calling their plays bad, not scummy, while still leaving open the possibility of pressing onto them if desired. It looks like neither scumreads nor scumhunting, but a load of "you should stop this or I'LL PUSH YOU". Meanwhile the crux of her Validon push was "this is not like his normal meta". While I can't say that is an inherently scummy argument, it's still an easy and safe claim for scum to make w/o people taking much of a problem against it cuz meta is subjective. She also didn't have any definitive opinion about the quality/scumminess of Validon's actual content, rather just focused on comparing it to his past games.
This entire paragraph in particular is just complete bull. First Raitaki tries to spin a joke into something scummy, then he says that implying forgiveness if content improves is scummy (when in fact this is something all townies should strive to do) and the rest is basically nonsensical blabber or stuff that just isn't scummy. Does anyone disagree with me? No? Vote Raitaki for great justice, he's just making stuff up as he goes.

The way Raitaki presents his reads on other people makes me think he's trying to have it both ways on...well basically everyone lynchable. See his original Raikaria case, which boils down to "it's possible to justify Raikaria's actions in a townie way but it bothers me in a scummy way." See his ActionDan opinion, which is "I can see why Dan has a wagon on him and he's not trying to be helpful or town (where's the justification on this statement) but voting him is too easy and he's just a lurker so i dunno." See Raitaki's Affinity case, which basically convinces me that Raitaki is basically just cherrypicking random questionable posts out of people's ISOs (or just not reading them at all) because his case on Affinity focuses on how Affinity drops BT for Shadoweh but there's no mention of the actually questionable part of Affinity's posts, which is the defense of Serela and the swing to the Shadoweh wagon at a crucial point in the wagons.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 01:28:41 PM
Oops I didn't mean to submit that early. Well, I think it gets the point across.

What I wanted to say about SB has mostly already been said by Affinity's SB case today (SB not only drops Vhaltz and Validon as Affinity mentions, but he also completely drops Shadoweh when it looks like he was turning against her at the end of the day yesterday; the sudden focus on actiondan today seems opportunistic given how bt opened the day). I guess a lot of his posting just feels mechanical/inconsequential; I don't feel any real conviction from his posts or the feeling he wants his scumspects lynched, it's more like "yeah this guy is scummy. i dont like, we should totally kill them rawr :C" This is probably not the best way to state this so I'll see if I can rephrase it in a better way later.

Dormio is a pretty cool guy. I don't have a defense for him beyond "I really think Dormio is town guys", but I think his towniness will become apparent if we lynch Raitaki and Raitaki flips scum, which I think he will.

Shadoweh is a huge troll and narrow down your persons of interest list yourself you lazy bum. The info is already all out there. I also don't see how you can characterize Affinity and Raitaki as spending equal amounts of time playing mafia this game when Affinity's quality and quantity of content completely outranks Raitaki. Stop wanting to kill Affinity because he's Affinity you jerk. >:(
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 02:05:13 PM
I wanted to say something about Shadoweh association reads earlier, but I kind of got caught up in the Dan thing. His posts have improved so I'm less willing to vote him now. I'm still kind of confused with Shadoweh dropping me, but as other people said if she were Serela's buddy she might have kept pushing me. Of course that doesn't explain why she didn't unvote me. Also, she's voting Affinity? Really now? I'm not getting any scum intent from him but then again I'm rushing through reading things so gahhhhh. Nevertheless:

##Unkill

I'm busy right now, only have a couple minutes to look, so I'm looking quickly at everyone and the only other person that irks me right now is SB for essentially what Conq said. I know I "agree" with people easily, Conq, but that's mainly because someone else pointed it out before I could and they seem like good ideas. I know it's newbie still, but then again it's not like we can all find things on our own all the time. >_>;

Kill: Serious Bananas

Still not getting good feelings from him based on his posting style, which I think everyone by now knows is not really convincing or even orderly. I haven't read too much into Raitaki because of his lack of posts so I'm not entirely convinced. I'll have to do that later. I'm reading Conq and VM town right now, not sure on everyone else. Sorry for the rushed post but, well, IRL stuff. It happens. >_<;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 02:14:43 PM
Shadoweh's not voting Affinity but she's looking at him funny.

Validon, there's nothing wrong with agreeing with people, but you pick up and drop opinions way too easily imo. I recognize this is probably just a personality trait of yours though. A hint just for future reference: have a little more confidence in yourself and your opinions, even if you're a newbie. Sometimes newbies find stuff that more experienced players miss.

Anyway, feeling more confident in Raitaki and SB as scum now. Validon is spastic but I think the way he's constantly taking into consideration new information (even if he mostly waits for other people to bring it up and has a tendency to change his mind very quickly) is probably coming from town.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 02:30:13 PM
Typing up replies in word documents because I forgot to open a post reply tab to write in while commuting. I?m up to #292 but I?ve skimmed over some of Dan/Raitaki/Dormio posts and I?ll get to those later as soon as I get this out there and get to reading the rest of D2.
Okay so here?s the reread things I said I had earlier. Note this is all a post about townreads so skip it if you have to speedread or whatever.

Affinity

I was leaning town on Affinity later in the day and I got nice things from ISOing what little Serela had. The last post Serela put out before we wagoned him like hell was this:
so hopefully affinity's power just went out for a really long time and he's totally okay and will be back by d2 guys

There?s two ways to read this. Either he was concerned about a scumbuddy being missing and his faction being fucked if Affinity didn?t come back or he was waiting for the last townie to NOT come back into the game because it?d be cool for his faction if he was modkilled. If Affinity was a buddy and Serela was really anxious to have him back, my guess is that he would have been going apeshit in the scum QT instead of commenting on it openly in the thread. Instead, this reads like ?gee guys I sure am town and I hope the last person to arrive into the game who I know is town gets here soon because otherwise he?ll be modkiled and that would suck for our townie town faction which I?m totally a part of right guys??

This makes even more sense when noting that this was Serela in his ?Oh man I just got several townreads I can just relax and coast for the rest of the day now? state of mind.
Could be argued to be WIFOM I guess but I don?t really think so, then there?s the post where he votes Shadoweh instead of Serela which is a thing I had missed, but that could perfectly be the same kind of dissonance or whatever Shadoweh had when disregarding his wagon for no apparent reason. He was also set on ignoring the Validon lynch for being ?too easy? so I figure a Serela lynch would?ve been not that different for him. Was thinking he was the townest to live into D2 but I?m waffling a little bit on the new evidence. Still reading him slightly town for now though.

BT

Then there?s BT?s posts that got townier as we got closer to deadline. His bad IRL situation to play mafia isn't indicative of alignment but when coupled with being suspected and self-deprecation of his own posts I think he's town. I?m fairly sure that nobody would think BT?s wordy posts are shitty (at least I certainly didn?t think they were) even if he mentioned that he thinks they?re a mess. Saying something equivalent to ?my post is going to suck? expecting nobody to judge you for it later might work as a defensive mechanism outside of mafia, but believing that it would in mafia would be very na?ve. If Scum!BT was bullshitting his way through the game I don?t think he?d water down posts that he knows sound town, instead it sounds like a milder version of Town!Affinity getting heavy suspicion in D1 and getting depressed. Pretty sure he's town now.

Shadoweh

I already commented on Shadoweh?s weird deadline waffles reading much townier that what I thought of her with the Serela softdefense when the wagon was in its early stages. I?d put her around the same level as Affinity in my townreads now that I see that everything might not be as green as I saw earlier in Affinityland anymore.

So from townier to less townier my townreads are like this now:
BT >> Shadoweh/ Affinity > Conq/Dan


Conq

Conq is still townie mctownman for now, his posts are solid, but I?m wary of him because :paranoia:, he got a little bit too friendly with me towards the end of our exchange in late D1 which could?ve been buddying up. Charisma can be abused since people who like you are going to find it harder to lynch you, although it?s probably not something you can do anything about when you?re town so *shrug*. Just townie + paranoia for now which means I?ll probably be unwilling to sheep him today unless I feel like his cases are running in the awesomesauce direction like BBM?s Serela case did.

Dan

Dan?s thing isn?t a reread thing as much as it is a D2 thing from the hour or so after the flip. The way he waved BT off like he was excessively wordy and mad and wrong strikes me more as town knowing that they?re town and telling a voter that he?s plain wrong and that he should go get run over by a train for sucking or being scum, rather than scum trying to get town off them. Because how the hell is that a good scum tactic to get votes off you? It just made him look worse. Doesn?t make sense from scum even if Dan is generally weird. This wouldn?t be much of a thing on its own but then there?s what Shadoweh pointed out about him trying to keep Conq out of the Shadoweh wagon and onto the Serela wagon instead. Not that great a read but it?s as good as can get with how little he?s posted.
But then again Mitsuki says he was totally this cocky as Shirley Temple as well so I dunno maybe I'm wrong.

This is probably another wall already so I?ll make a different post about ?who is scum-. I've been really paranoid about all of the experienced players and still focused on them for the most part, only to find out that I now think most of them are town. Which is cool in its own way but as a result I?ve mostly PoE?d and have to reread the rest of people to find out who's scum.

It's very hard to put out a post this long out when having to check for agreement on all points with hydra partner. That's a LOT of cuts. And now a session timeout holy shit I was scared I lost the post for a minute ;_; Reading now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 02:31:01 PM
(im also using as a benchmark stuff like scumbt in disgaea where bt held on to the dumbest case on me for forever and i still havent forgiven you for getting away with it)
Had to laugh out loud here. No regrets, everything went according to plan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14060.msg933916.html#msg933916) in that one.

not interested in a dan lynch either; imo it's pretty clear that the town feel he got from serela's posts was from not reading them carefully ("style of posts") and he changed his mind without any prompting upon reading more closely (now serela "posts badly", which doesnt conflict with dan originally finding his style of posts townie). unless you can explain to me why scum dan thought it would be a good idea to suddenly switch reads on his scumbuddy for no reason at all and have it draw attention to himself later on?
I don't quite get that though. Serela's posts weren't much to look at - you could tell that they were devoid of actual scumhunting easily, so it seems weird to me that his explanation is that he read more closely the second time. As for why it happened, scum can forget their impulse-reads and fuck up. That's what I was going for with the vote, anyway, if it's more clear now. I also wouldn't rule out a blatant Serela bus - maybe Serela saw Vhaltz's gusto and gave up in advance or some shit, I wouldn't hurry to put it on the "unlikely, look away" shelf. In any case I decided to "drop" the vote for now (also because I'm not / I wasn't a fan of the other votes on the wagon) but I'm still staring.

I obviously can't relate to what you're saying about Affinity but I do agree with the part you quoted. Meh, guess that's something.

##Kill Raitaki

Sure. I find it cute that he's still after Shadoweh's behind. Stubborn little hamster.

I'm not done reading I guess. Just wanted to approve of this lynch. Cut by the great wall of china.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 02:33:43 PM
I think we're at L-2. Just rushed to do the counting.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 02:52:48 PM
Fair enough re: Dan. I'll see if I can rephrase it better later but that's part of why I want the Raitaki lynch because I think a Serela/Raitaki/Dan scumteam (assuming Raitaki scum ofc) would be pretty much absurd to anyone and I really do think Raitaki is going to flip scum.

And yep, that's 4 votes out of lynch threshold of 6. ActionDan, Dormio, Conq, BT

Vhaltz don't be like that man I just like being friendly to people. ;-;
(Also, since when were you sheeping me yesterday? It's a side effect of my activity schedule but all my votes onto wagons ended up following yours. :V)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: SB on July 22, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
working on a post now

bluh i wish i knew how isos here worked
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 02:59:25 PM
I wasn't sheeping you yesterday, that was more of just a warning that I'd take your posts with a grain of salt today.
And I don't mean to be totally unfriendly with that either, you can have a hi5 regardless of alignment for being a mafia junkie like me :V

I don't know if I've already mentioned this but I totally skipped all of the Dan/Raitaki/SB cases D2 and just looked into whether the reads I developed earlier still stood so don't expect to see me post from me in at least like 40 mins.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 03:01:21 PM
working on a post now

bluh i wish i knew how isos here worked
Click on a person's profile, and then "Show Posts". Downside is that it shows posts across all parts of the forum, which doesn't mean much for most of the players here but certain people LIKE DORMIO post across a lot of different threads so you end up having to ctrl+f mafia for the thread title.

Vhaltz: Sounds exciting. Sure, I like challenges. :V
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 22, 2013, 03:08:35 PM
...Well. That escalated quickly.
@Conq: Well, I have no defense to not reading that as a joke then. And the problem I have with Shadoweh is that not only she leaves a way to drop those suspicions later, but she doesn't even make it sound like she think it was scummy play instead of bad play and overall didn't sound very convicted (compare: her push on Validon).
rereading
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 22, 2013, 03:18:45 PM
Okay then. Quote me some examples of what you're talking about (like don't just link me to a post, quote in a post what you're referring to) instead of talking in general terms.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 03:21:45 PM
Let me help. Who is scum besides Shadoweh? What do you think of how she approached the wagon yesterday?

Vhaltz: notepad. Always. With Quick Reply and Friends you run the risk of posting prematurely (sup conq) and Word sucks. Random trivia: when I'm town I consider my posts sucky when they're messy and don't present anything solid to the table. Not a surprise that I gave no fucks as to how 'townie' they looked.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 22, 2013, 03:30:03 PM
won't be here until late late tonight.

but carry on.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 22, 2013, 03:46:19 PM
Quote
I generally dislike when someone uses alot of I dislike, seems weird, without it being clear if you suspect the person you're doubting or not.
Sentence explains itself.
Quote
You need to stop using 'I like/don't like' and start saying 'I suspect x because of' or 'I don't suspect x but they are doing y that is bad' or whatever equivalent.
Coaching, Makes it clear she thought it was bad play, but anything implicating it of being scummy play is absent.
Quote
It's really A Bad Thing when someone words their posts in ways that can be taken either way
Being vague about what kind of bad it is.
Quote
Unhelpful people who get moody when they're suspected get lynched because no one likes dealing with a no-content guy.
This isn't "you are scummy because you have no content", but "people suspect you because you have no content".

Overall out of her whole #99 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998608.html#msg998608) the only real sign she suspected BBM and Raikaria was the "Probably mislynch victims" she slapped on before their names. Everything afterwards is pretty much just coaching.
That might not sound like much, but consider the fact that aside from those 2 reads, Validon was the ONLY other person she even expressed interest in a lynch on so far out of RVS. Aside from meta stuff thrown at Validon and some coaching, most of her content is just theorycraft like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000053.html#msg1000053) and meta. What I'm saying is that she's waffling on a bunch of different stuffs and then has like zero scumreads right now. I don't even see her scumhunting or pressuring people much, unless people want to show me :\

-cut- @BT: Currently I'm not sure what her reaction to the Serela wagon means. There's been quite a lot of meta being used by multiple people this game, so maybe she decided to not lolSerelabus this game around to diverge from the meta? That's my interpretation for it under the assumption of Shadoweh is scum, but ofc there's no reason for town!Shadoweh to jump on it either if she didn't think Serela was scummy, so I guess I'm reading null on that >_> I'm not that good with handling connections anyhow.
Also blarf I'm still working on other people. Nothing definitive yet.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 22, 2013, 03:53:41 PM
@Raitiki:

I haven't got around to BT currently (don't think he's a priority for today), but when I made the switch to Shadoweh it was late in the day and the BT lynch was not happening.  I had to make a choice between Serela and Shadoweh while attaching reasoning.

A question: if you think Shadoweh's push on Validon was bogus, then why do you think she ceased pushing him as hard when Serela's lynch was imminent?

Another question: You are voting Shadoweh as you don't like her push on Validon, and that she has had not much scumhunting today.  You have voiced suspicion on me as you don't like how my vote changed from BT to Shadoweh without explanation, and cause i have 'barely posted'.  Why do you feel that Shadoweh is scummier than me?

ninja: omg.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: SB on July 22, 2013, 04:16:44 PM
Can't help but feel like people are biased against me because of my posting style. Eh, can't say I blame you but the votes on me are weak.

So apparently I'm scummy for changing my reads? I've made erm, 1 post this phase so far (besides the last one which was more of a notification than anything,) so it's a bit soon to yell at me for not bringing up my reads on everybody. I'm pretty sure yesterday that I said that my Vhaltz suspicions were improving, and now after the Serela flip I can't see VM being scum because iirc they pressed Serela's lynch really hard. Haven't brought up Shadoweh because my opinion of them keeps wavering between town or scum and I don't particularly feel like restating null reads because they're pointless. I definitely haven't dropped Validon as a suspicion in my mind though. The part about "Validon and Vhaltz being easy votes" and would let me fly under the radar is a pretty silly point too. I don't think anyone else in the game DIDN'T think that Vhaltz was obvtown, so having such an outlandish vote isn't a great way to fly under the radar, I would've wanted to have hopped on a prominent  wagon to hide there instead. Also, "easy" votes don't make the votes any less valid, they're "easy" for a reason after all.

Validon in particular is terrible for finding me scummy because of my "posting style" is also really dumb. Also earlier he said that I didn't look scummy, but it was "too early to clear me", then a bit later he said that he almost voted me based on a typo and my posting style. That was pretty much the only suspicion he had of me yesterday, so he's just gone from a supposed null  read (that sounded like a town read that he didn't want to admit to imo) conveniently after Affinity's case. Of course, he added some (invalid) points of his own to avoid accusations of sheeping (that he openly admitted to) and used the newbie excuse. We lost a game on SF once because one of the scum was a new player who basically playing the newbie card for all it's worth, and I don't think that this is Validon's first game anyway? But yeah. Validon's vote on me is bad, as are the stuff I posted about him yesterday.

I've also said some stuff about Dan yesterday which people seem to be forgetting. I advocated a vig shot on him (I guess we don't have one since there was only one kill?) due to inactivity and lackluster play. Plus there was the fact that nobody else wanted to lynch Dan yesterday, except for iirc Validon who just agreed on some of my points (upon checking, Vhaltz did too apparently) That's all that comes to mind anyway. Everyone's treating it as if I'm just being opportunistic and like I've never said anything against him before, which is a lie.

Looking back through though Validon looks pretty much obvscum to me, so

##Unkill
##Kill: Validon


Need to reread Shadoweh and dislike Raik.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 22, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
In general, I concur with what has been said of Raitiki; his scumpainting of Shadoweh is absolutely bad, and his attempt to hold on to the teeniest details even more so (coaching).  his blurbs on other people like Dan and me don't seem like genuine sentiments since he just goes on and on about shadoweh.  I would lynch him as well, even more so than SB really.

I also think Conq is a bit too friendly as well; I don't find myself too stellar this game (yet).

Will be back in the morning.

Cut: on first glance I don't like SB's post; somewhat WIFOM-y defence, not a vote i agree with.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: SB on July 22, 2013, 04:33:45 PM
WIFOM isn't always scummy (damnit BBM why did you have to die or you could've backed me up on this)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 05:11:23 PM
I have this case on Dormio I've written out but I still have to read SB and Raitaki and I'm half asleep. I don't think I'll be making any sense if I go on like this and I'm not even sure if I was making sense when writing the Dormio case anyway. I only slept around 4 hours last night and that wouldn't have been that bad on its own, but my whole sleeping schedule has been screwed since last sunday and I've been working too. I need to take a break and nap for an hour, I'll be back later.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 05:51:05 PM
SB, I said your posting style was bad in the sense that, as Conq and Affinity have both already brought up, you've voted for various people but have been flip-flopping so much. Relevant posts that I agree with:

Quote from: Affinity
I remember he thought BBM as town, but he did not give much on Shadoweh and Serela, the people relevant to yesterday's end-state.  The fact that he throws away his Validon and Vhaltz completely while going for something rude ActionDan said also makes me suspect him a lot.  So... yeah.

Quote from: Conqueror
What I wanted to say about SB has mostly already been said by Affinity's SB case today (SB not only drops Vhaltz and Validon as Affinity mentions, but he also completely drops Shadoweh when it looks like he was turning against her at the end of the day yesterday; the sudden focus on actiondan today seems opportunistic given how bt opened the day). I guess a lot of his posting just feels mechanical/inconsequential; I don't feel any real conviction from his posts or the feeling he wants his scumspects lynched, it's more like "yeah this guy is scummy. i dont like, we should totally kill them rawr :C" This is probably not the best way to state this so I'll see if I can rephrase it in a better way later.

I know it's just agreeing with someone else's opinions, but I did notice how you've been flip-flopping on votes.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 05:51:41 PM
WIFOM isn't always scummy (damnit BBM why did you have to die or you could've backed me up on this)

Also this. What is this even.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 22, 2013, 09:07:21 PM
Deadcount
Raitaki:           ActionDan, Dormio, Conqueror, BT (4)
Shadoweh:     Raitaki (1)
S. Bananas:    Affinity, Validon98 (2)
Validon98:     Serious Bananas (1)

Raitaki is at K-2 (I double checked this time)
With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to kill.
You have 50 Hours left in the day (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130724T18&p0=2374&msg=Night+2)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 09:09:20 PM
SB, quick question, if you disliked VM, Val and Dan coming into D2, what made you vote Dan over the other two, not to mention right after Val voted?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 09:13:55 PM
So now I'm freshened up a bit maybe? still pretty tired but I'll try to mafia. Mitsuki is here to help me with my sleepy derps

I was reading through D2 since I skimmed lots of posts and suddenly I came across this.

Whoa, hold the phone here: How is ActionDan at K-2 if it takes six votes to lynch?
Also, something I didn't mention earlier because I wasn't sure if it was important or not: It's Dormio's "day" posts. They're all about complaining about Steam or something. It's kind of reminding me a bit of Polaris/Celery's role where he posted a bunch of celery puns in order to fulfill a condition for a new power. Whether it's true or not I don't know, but it set off an alarm in my head.

This is townnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Just look at that, he actually thinks that Condition Fulfilling Upgrading Mafia Boss is a common role that could be in this setup and that Dormio is fulfilling conditions by talking about Steam forever. It makes no senseeeeeeeeee. 100% paranoia. Town paranoia. Not lynching Validon.

Also @SB's latest post that sounds weird. There's no way for anybody to know that unless you yourself explained the WIFOM thing so I don't see any reason why you would say -only- that instead of explaining it. Unless it's for the sake of mentioning dead town to sound townier, which is scummy.
Also does anybody other than BBM know SB from earlier games elsewhere?

This is also a thing
Meanwhile the crux of her Validon push was "this is not like his normal meta". While I can't say that is an inherently scummy argument, it's still an easy and safe claim for scum to make w/o people taking much of a problem against it cuz meta is subjective. She also didn't have any definitive opinion about the quality/scumminess of Validon's actual content, rather just focused on comparing it to his past games.

Why just comment on Shadoweh's meta use and not on my meta use? I summoned the power of meta like 4 times at least throughout D1 and the one with the Dormio vote had literally nothing else to it since it was pure gut based on meta, which is pretty similar to what you're claiming Shadoweh did.


...But I can kinda see Raitaki scrambling to get around the game in this situation, mostly because I'm having lots of difficulties following everything right now myself even though I got a big chunk of reading work done during the night phase. His Affinity read sounds like original and reasonable suspicion even though I personally still think Affinity is probably town.

I don't know. I haven't finished reading his latest post but it just doesn't make sense in my head that scum getting wagoned so early in the day would stick to their case on somebody who pretty much everybody else agrees is probably town. I'm pretty inclined to think Raitaki is town as well.

His "DAN IS TOO EASY" point that somebody gave him flak for reads okay to me because it's true. Actually I think that's a solid towntell on him now, because it would be really really stupid for scum!Raitaki to wave off a possible easy mislynch at this point. If Conq is town then scum is just completely surrounded by obvtowns which means Raitaki!Scum would HAVE to resort to easy targets to wagon on, people are actively PoE'ing scum all over the thread, and instead of pursuing the lynchable targets Raitaki stubbornly sticks to his ED1 case on Shadoweh who is not getting lynched today whatsoever.
There's also how everybody has posted so far in D2 and nobody has even given a thought to Raitaki being town yet iirc, if Raitaki were scum this would mean that their last buddy would be bussing him and that's a horrible scum strategy after a D1 scum lynch. Most of what I just said is circunstancial evidence and it gets kinda WIFOM-y at points, but even so his stubborn grip on the Shadoweh vote even with the big wagon on him makes me think that he either sucks really hard at being scum or he's town, and like somebody said at some point in some game some time ago I prefer to believe scum are not batshit incompetent.



I withheld my Dormio case because I thought I might've been Too Sleepy To Make Sense but I'm ending up PoE'ing onto Dormio either way and his play this game sucks pretty bad if he happens to be town. There's also how if he flips scum Conq is likely to be the last scum due to association reads since Conq defended Dormio over nothing but "tone" and I could see him being a Serela scumbuddy trying to see if the VT claim would save him and then giving up and bussing when he was still ahead, since Dan and I kept pushing for the Serela lynch despite the claim. If not Conq then I guess it'd be SB or maybe Affinity.
 
Posting the case in a minute because nobody's going to read it if I add it to this wall.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 09:24:02 PM
I'll agree that "stay on that townie bastard" isn't a likely scum strategy unless you're scum!me. I don't think he gave up on Dan as a voting option though - he just said that he treats him as a null lurker.

Either way, though, you've motivated me into looking at other options. I haven't read Dormio yet.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 09:24:53 PM
Okay here's the Dormio case.

SB's whole beef on ActionDan being scum because he just gave a bunch of unjustified reads reminded me that Dormio is a thing that I don't like. ActionDan has barely written one or two cases he but he has given plenty of reads that are to flow logically whenever they switch and people can hold it against him if they don't, whereas Dormio threw out a few cases but has barely given any comments at all on other players, which lets him just bullshit up a case onto any of them as scum because we have no precedent as to what he thinked of them. As such denying reads is not only being unhelpful but also A Very Convenient Move For Scum.

His response to my prod for reads is scummy in light of this. I've been reading Town!Dormio in Disgagea to see if he would do this, and he seems to be kinda case-focused like he is here, but even then he still makes plenty of side mentions in a way that makes it very clear what he thinks about the players in them (whether he thinks they're outright scummy, whether he thinks something they've done is kinda scummy but he's unsure so he prods for more content, etc). All in all, his side mentions are noteworthy because you can see scumhunting in them. This game, however, it's very different, the cases are mostly (more like exclusively) wagon jumps with few to no side mentions at all that may indicate what he thinks about anybody in the game. And when he is prodded to clarify what he thinks of a player such as myself, he seems to go out of his way to reply in ways that continue to hide what he thinks about my alignment. This can be seen in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph...html#msg998236) where he kind of implies I'm townie but still words things in a deliberately obfuscating way, this obfuscatingness about his read repeats itself again in the very same way when prodded a second time about the issue here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph...msg998902). If he's town and he was prodded twice about the very same issue in ways that made it obvious that the people asking wanted to know what his read on me was, why be totally unhelpful not only the first time around but also the second time? It's just that, deliberately concealing the read. Why would town do this?


Then there's the other parts of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph...html#msg998236). His other side-comment is on Two Rais Existing which is Totally Not Relevant To Scumhunting and fluffy. Regarding his main point, he just jumped onto the Raikaria wagon using pre-existent reasoning (backtrack) making it look like it's original content, while withholding a Shadoweh case that came later in his last contentful post of the day (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph....html#msg998236). Like BT pointed out in his late D1 post, most of the reasoning used to vote Shadoweh here was readily usable back when he voted Raikaria and it was certainly lots more evidence than the simple backtrack he had on Raikaria.

This reads like he was eager to wagon Raikaria for an easy lynch but had to give up when Conq replaced in and switched to Shadoweh. Back when I read this post I overlooked how Shadoweh was also a potential end day wagon because I had forgotten that Serela was still voting her, so I thought that this was a town!Dormio hipster vote, but it was actually also a wagon jump.

Add to this that there are zero side mentions of any sort in the post where he votes Shadoweh and that all of his later D1 posts amount to nothing but a Dan prod. There were other wagons like BBM and Validon that he didn't comment on at all so it's not like he's only actively not giving reads, he's also avoiding any other sort of mention that could indicate what he thought of other player's alignments.

Then on D2 he proceeds to pursue Shadoweh again without explanation, likely continuing with his D1 case because he has never even said what still made her scum despite what happened lateD1, and when he unvotes her to hop onto the Raitaki wagon he doesn't explain why she isn't scum anymore either, which means he can hop right back onto Shadoweh at some point later in the game without much addition to his earlier case because he happened to "never stop finding her scummy". Raitaki is also not one of the two people he said he'd read in his first D2 post (Dan and SB), when that mention of them would normally mean that those two people were his primary scumspects to reread aside from Shadoweh at the time. We'll never know whether he reread or not because all of his comments on Dan and SB amount to nothing. So he just hopped onto the popular Raitaki wagon, yup, and at this point he's just blatantly sheeping the general opinion with apparently no opinions whatsoever on anybody he hasn't voted yet. His Raitaki case feels very very lackluster for a D2 case, too, his midD1 Shadoweh vote was justified better than this, it feels like Dormio's current vote is still in the getting-out-of-RVS stage. This is not town!Dormio.

Did I mention how he keeps repeating how uninterested he is in everything and how much he seems to prefer Steam to mafia? Because that's totally not an excuse to not post much as scum or anything. He just keeps mentioning it over and over and I no matter how much I think about it I can't see any reason for town to do this, scum would be the ones to be constantly justifying their abscence like that.

Also want to hear the reason why he got by without calling attention? Tone. Nothing else. Nobody is reading him town due to his actions, he's just town because "he sounds like Dormio" when that's very easily fakeable. Read him back in Disgagea and then here and tell me this is Town!Dormio again.

All of this amounts to Blatant Wagon Jumping + coasting + -no reads mode I can bullshit cases into lynching whoever I want since nobody cares to vote me anyway-. I've been waffling on Dormio all game because of :apathy: screwing up my read with little content to go on, but my convictions are stronger now. Not as strong as with Serela but I'm also quite convinced that this is the scum we're looking for.

##Kill: Dormio

If you're town for whatever reason then you'll learn to try to play more seriously, I'm pretty sure this would be what Kitten4u was complaining about when I was around last year and she said that she dropped playing because some MotK players not following their wincon screws up her reads.

This is where my vote stays. Lynching the little girl with the stuffed toy is where it's at.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
A quick glance tells me that his case today (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999946.html#msg999946) is underwhelming to the max. None of those points are convincing. Step it up man.

And then I was cut. How did you manage to type that much about Dormio I don't even know.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 09:40:54 PM
Just a quick notice, your links are incorrect.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 09:43:13 PM
Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuck

That's what I get for posting it in our QT before I went to sleep and grabbing it back from there to post it instead of just the post on another open tab.

I'll try to fix that in a minute with a quote
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 09:48:48 PM
I think this fixes everything let me know if there's anything that linked to the wrong post or something since I just did that real quick.

Okay here's the Dormio case.

SB's whole beef on ActionDan being scum because he just gave a bunch of unjustified reads reminded me that Dormio is a thing that I don't like. ActionDan has barely written one or two cases he but he has given plenty of reads that are to flow logically whenever they switch and people can hold it against him if they don't, whereas Dormio threw out a few cases but has barely given any comments at all on other players, which lets him just bullshit up a case onto any of them as scum because we have no precedent as to what he thinked of them. As such denying reads is not only being unhelpful but also A Very Convenient Move For Scum.

His response to my prod for reads is scummy in light of this. I've been reading Town!Dormio in Disgagea to see if he would do this, and he seems to be kinda case-focused like he is here, but even then he still makes plenty of side mentions in a way that makes it very clear what he thinks about the players in them (whether he thinks they're outright scummy, whether he thinks something they've done is kinda scummy but he's unsure so he prods for more content, etc). All in all, his side mentions are noteworthy because you can see scumhunting in them. This game, however, it's very different, the cases are mostly (more like exclusively) wagon jumps with few to no side mentions at all that may indicate what he thinks about anybody in the game. And when he is prodded to clarify what he thinks of a player such as myself, he seems to go out of his way to reply in ways that continue to hide what he thinks about my alignment. This can be seen in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998236.html#msg998236) where he kind of implies I'm townie but still words things in a deliberately obfuscating way, this obfuscatingness about his read repeats itself again in the very same way when prodded a second time about the issue here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998902.html#msg998902). If he's town and he was prodded twice about the very same issue in ways that made it obvious that the people asking wanted to know what his read on me was, why be totally unhelpful not only the first time around but also the second time? It's just that, deliberately concealing the read. Why would town do this?


Then there's the other parts of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998236.html#msg998236). His other side-comment is on Two Rais Existing which is Totally Not Relevant To Scumhunting and fluffy. Regarding his main point, he just jumped onto the Raikaria wagon using pre-existent reasoning (backtrack) making it look like it's original content, while withholding a Shadoweh case that came later in his last contentful post of the day (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998899.html#msg998899). Like BT pointed out in his late D1 post, most of the reasoning used to vote Shadoweh here was readily usable back when he voted Raikaria and it was certainly lots more evidence than the simple backtrack he had on Raikaria.

This reads like he was eager to wagon Raikaria for an easy lynch but had to give up when Conq replaced in and switched to Shadoweh. Back when I read this post I overlooked how Shadoweh was also a potential end day wagon because I had forgotten that Serela was still voting her, so I thought that this was a town!Dormio hipster vote, but it was actually also a wagon jump.

Add to this that there are zero side mentions of any sort in the post where he votes Shadoweh and that all of his later D1 posts amount to nothing but a Dan prod. There were other wagons like BBM and Validon that he didn't comment on at all so it's not like he's only actively not giving reads, he's also avoiding any other sort of mention that could indicate what he thought of other player's alignments.

Then on D2 he proceeds to pursue Shadoweh again without explanation, likely continuing with his D1 case because he has never even said what still made her scum despite what happened lateD1, and when he unvotes her to hop onto the Raitaki wagon he doesn't explain why she isn't scum anymore either, which means he can hop right back onto Shadoweh at some point later in the game without much addition to his earlier case because he happened to "never stop finding her scummy". Raitaki is also not one of the two people he said he'd read in his first D2 post (Dan and SB), when that mention of them would normally mean that those two people were his primary scumspects to reread aside from Shadoweh at the time. We'll never know whether he reread or not because all of his comments on Dan and SB amount to nothing. So he just hopped onto the popular Raitaki wagon, yup, and at this point he's just blatantly sheeping the general opinion with apparently no opinions whatsoever on anybody he hasn't voted yet. His Raitaki case feels very very lackluster for a D2 case, too, his midD1 Shadoweh vote was justified better than this, it feels like Dormio's current vote is still in the getting-out-of-RVS stage. This is not town!Dormio.

Did I mention how he keeps repeating how uninterested he is in everything and how much he seems to prefer Steam to mafia? Because that's totally not an excuse to not post much as scum or anything. He just keeps mentioning it over and over and I no matter how much I think about it I can't see any reason for town to do this, scum would be the ones to be constantly justifying their abscence like that.

Also want to hear the reason why he got by without calling attention? Tone. Nothing else. Nobody is reading him town due to his actions, he's just town because "he sounds like Dormio" when that's very easily fakeable. Read him back in Disgagea and then here and tell me this is Town!Dormio again.

All of this amounts to Blatant Wagon Jumping + coasting + -no reads mode I can bullshit cases into lynching whoever I want since nobody cares to vote me anyway-. I've been waffling on Dormio all game because of :apathy: screwing up my read with little content to go on, but my convictions are stronger now. Not as strong as with Serela but I'm also quite convinced that this is the scum we're looking for.

##Kill: Dormio

If you're town for whatever reason then you'll learn to try to play more seriously, I'm pretty sure this would be what Kitten4u was complaining about when I was around last year and she said that she dropped playing because some MotK players not following their wincon screws up her reads.

This is where my vote stays. Lynching the little girl with the stuffed toy is where it's at.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 09:49:50 PM
That's what I get for posting it in our QT before I went to sleep and grabbing it back from there to post it instead of just leaving the post on another open tab.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 09:59:23 PM
@VM: Holy crap, that's a LOT on Dormio. Err... okay then. I know he has been pretty much acting like he hasn't cared or anything like that, but I didn't think it was to that extent. SB still feels like the right person to vote, but, uh... okay. Dormio is looking damn lynch-worthy. Also, I don't think scum would go to this extent to point out this much stuff. I already thought you town, VM. This clenches it now.
Also, sorry about the Condition Fulfilling Upgrading Mafia Boss thing. It just seemed so similar I couldn't help but think back to I Wanna Be the Sereliest. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 22, 2013, 10:02:53 PM
I feel like you went a bit far with some of those points, and some of them are things Dormio does as town too, but overall it was a good read.

Welcome to the NHK (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13051.0.html) might be a good reference, if you haven't read it. I'll look at it myself later I think.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 10:08:18 PM
I also just noticed that Dormio's Raikaria vote is even weirder when taking into account that Conq replaced in for Raikaria. I was also gut reading Raikaria town so maybe Conq isn't his buddy after all?

Either way Dormio lynch is still best lynch. I'm sure there's other associative reads we can get out of him when he flips scum.

@BT That's probably because I was waffling when I first wrote it and became increasingly convinced that I was right in the past few hours, so I did some rewording before I posted in order to not sound like a pansy throwing my vote in undecisive ways, maybe I overdid that.
And he should step up his game if his town play can suck this bad. I don't think I'll have time to read the game but I'll try.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 22, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
I read your posts Conq :< I can't help staring suspiciously at Affinity, it's in my blood. I did already half-narrow it down to not Affinity and Validon today. There is something adorable about Affinity's half-asleep posting even if it's voting for me (adorable Affinimu is town). The thing about Raitaki is I don't get what he's hoping to gain from what's visibly an impossible lynch. (I see that Vhaltz and BT also commented on this.) It's all pants on head forward, maybe he's hoping people will see it as conviction?

Rairai: :V Okay, so every time you see Weird Capitals Saying Something Is Bad this is me saying the informed minority without using the word town as a compromise to the people who can't take the backwards wording, ditto for A Good Guy without saying scum. As for the coaching, I don't actually think it's scummy to try and pressure your suspect into giving you what you want. You'll have to tell me what my motivation for coaching a Good Guy I'm trying to lynch is, unless you're suggesting we're partners.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 22, 2013, 10:39:41 PM
Hey Shadoweh who is scum?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 22, 2013, 11:51:11 PM
Mein gott.

but certain people LIKE DORMIO post across a lot of different threads so you end up having to ctrl+f mafia for the thread title.
I'm supposed to be a lurker damn it!

Dormio is fulfilling conditions by talking about Steam forever. It makes no senseeeeeeeeee. 100% paranoia. Town paranoia.
>Recent Game Activity: 95.2 hours past 2 weeks
Fuck steam and its goddamn summer sale.
Clearly you haven't been around when I get addicted to video games.

whereas Dormio threw out a few cases but has barely given any comments at all on other players, which lets him just bullshit up a case onto any of them as scum because we have no precedent as to what he thinked of them. As such denying reads is not only being unhelpful but also A Very Convenient Move For Scum.
So? If someone is being scummy then I'll vote them. I don't get the point of giving out townreads when they're liable to change anyway.
You know that generally my thoughts on people is either "don't care" or "probably scum", right?

Anyway. Still want Raitaki and Dan lynched. Might post later.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 03:40:09 AM
I really don't think there's much more to say about Dan and Raitaki so I guess I might as well look at someone else in the meantime. Like BT.

Question for aforementioned BT:
I feel like you went a bit far with some of those points, and some of them are things Dormio does as town too, but overall it was a good read.
What does "a good read" mean?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 23, 2013, 04:52:41 AM
As much as I think Vhaltz as obvtown as well, I don't agree with his case on Dormio (and his opinions), I have a feeling that he's not able to differentiate caprice from meta.  For one, I don't find his Dan and Raitiki suspicions bad.  Quite a lot of agreeable things had already been said about Raitiki being scum as well, so I don't see how he could have added on to that.  If I had to levy a complaint against him, it would be a lack of originality (with regards to the usual reasons for voting Dan, Shadoweh and Raitiki).  Would rather vote Raitiki or even SB over Dormio I think.

Very quickly on SB, I think I was unfair with regards to his opinion on Vhaltz and missed that it changed for the townier in D1.  But I'm not convinced by the rest of his defence or his D2 suspicions.  He's not talked about Raitiki and in general he doesn't seem to be current.

Thinking about what Vhaltz said about Raitiki town, it is true that his case on me is somewhat original if misguided.  But his focus on scumpainting Shadoweh over everything else makes me feel that his side suspicions aren't really genuine from him.  Faking town conviction through holding onto a bad case is normal and I don't think it a good excuse to clear him as town.

I'm not quite happy with Validon lapping up everything without understanding despite being called out for it by others.  Same with his constant tries to have an opinion on others.  It was okay at first but he's being slightly irritating as a player now.

Sadly I don't know what to think of BT at all, except that he has the best ActionDan press and that he cleared Shadoweh for good reasons.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 23, 2013, 05:11:23 AM
Well what would you have me do, Affinity? To be honest, I haven't really gotten strong reads on anyone besides the people who have already been called out on it by other players. At this point, I really can't do anything else. Sure, you talk about having my own opinions, but do realize that there's a point where my opinions overlap with that of others. I see why you think it annoying, and I agree. It's still newbie behavior on my part somewhat, but don't tell me there wasn't a time ever in any game where you agreed with someone else and couldn't really expand on their reasoning.
So yeah. I don't know what else I can add to this argument at this point because it appears as if everything has been brought up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 06:17:46 AM
I feel like you went a bit far with some of those points, and some of them are things Dormio does as town too, but overall it was a good read.

Welcome to the NHK (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13051.0.html) might be a good reference, if you haven't read it. I'll look at it myself later I think.

I read a little bit and checked most of the D1 posts so far and he sounds far townier than he does this game because he still does those side mentions. Even is his activity is sparse you can see where his trains of thought come from and where they're going.

This game he literally hasn't got a read on and barely mentions at all:
Validon
BT
SB
Conq (follow up on Raikaria never happened he just dropped it without reason apparently just like every other case he's done)
BBM (D1)
Serela (D1)
Affinity
Myself

There's only 12 players in this game and I only know what he's ever thought about three. Even if Dormio was badtown in Welcome to the NHK I could still see his comments on other players right away.

I'm not really willing to give up a lynch on somebody who is Very Scummy just because he claims to be addicted to video games. Even if this were a common thing for him to do, how is being deliberately obfuscating about his read early on when prodded twice about it town? It gives off the feeling that he's concealing his reads, not that he's just not posting them because :effort:.
It's all just one big convenient excuse and he keeps going on and on about it so that people will give him a pass for it. And you guys are just giving him that pass.

I want to see what you think of the rest of the game Dormio. No, that BT nitpick doesn't count.

Might reread Raitaki and his latest posts when I get back from work but for now all I want is to see Dormio lynched.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 23, 2013, 06:38:21 AM
Dunno, but I'm kind of on the not Dormio wagon. I have been known to change my mind though. Now that Shadowrun is over I'm reading over Raitaki's scumposts in Magical Madness Mafiaand cringing a little. Mostly because of how bad they are for 'Raikaria is a newbie let's get him'ness. I do find it odd that he posted almost immediately after that votecount confusion happened, but didn't mention it. I say this because in MMM2 when it happened he spent an entire page of spamposts talking about the conspiracyness of it making himself sound loud and proud. I have to conclude that the only reason he missed it and didn't bother commenting on it is both because he was actually rereading like he said he was, and none of his buddies mentioned it in the QT.  I don't know about you but when I'm scum and I say I'm rereading I'm actually watching Hell's Kitchen or something.

I keep making cases for my suspects being innocent. I am the worst scum ever.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 06:43:13 AM
I want to see what you think of the rest of the game Dormio. No, that BT nitpick doesn't count.
I don't see what you'll get out of me telling you that I don't care about the rest of the game.
Like, seriously, why are you so hung up on this.

And I was supposed to post more about BT but I got dragged into more DotA.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 06:45:36 AM
But, you know, I think I'll humor you and do an opinion post on the people you've listed.

Validon: I think he's town but I'm not reading a single word he's saying.
BT: Will mention later.
SB: Probably town so I don't care about him.
Conq: Conq is mai waifu cannot lynch.
BBM: Don't care about this guy.
Serela: Well he's dead now.
Affinity: Don't know. Might read later.
Myself: Probably town and ignoring for the most part as a result.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 08:48:54 AM
I just realized "myself" is Vhaltz and I just copy pasted it over. :derp:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 23, 2013, 09:16:08 AM
I thought you were being honest for once. :<
I'm mostly waiting to see what Raitaki says in response to my question. I'm kinda tired of people voting me when I'm not sure if I want to vote them back.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 23, 2013, 10:02:00 AM
Going to respond to this real quick while I'm here.

...But I can kinda see Raitaki scrambling to get around the game in this situation, mostly because I'm having lots of difficulties following everything right now myself even though I got a big chunk of reading work done during the night phase. His Affinity read sounds like original and reasonable suspicion even though I personally still think Affinity is probably town.
What was original and reasonable about the Affinity suspicion?

I don't know. I haven't finished reading his latest post but it just doesn't make sense in my head that scum getting wagoned so early in the day would stick to their case on somebody who pretty much everybody else agrees is probably town. I'm pretty inclined to think Raitaki is town as well.
What do you mean by that? Before Raitaki posted his Shadoweh case (can't look back to check right now) there were still a few people who hadn't posted and the Shadoweh wagon was still fully a possibility if they thought Shadoweh was suspicious. Add to this that Raitaki was pushing Shadoweh all day yesterday and the fact that Shadoweh had weird reactions with Serela yesterday and Shadoweh's still a reasonable case to push, if only because it gives a lot for Raitaki to talk about. At the time he made the case, he wasn't even a major wagon. Your premise is flawed.

His "DAN IS TOO EASY" point that somebody gave him flak for reads okay to me because it's true. Actually I think that's a solid towntell on him now, because it would be really really stupid for scum!Raitaki to wave off a possible easy mislynch at this point. If Conq is town then scum is just completely surrounded by obvtowns which means Raitaki!Scum would HAVE to resort to easy targets to wagon on, people are actively PoE'ing scum all over the thread, and instead of pursuing the lynchable targets Raitaki stubbornly sticks to his ED1 case on Shadoweh who is not getting lynched today whatsoever.
It's not true, and I want you to explain why you think so given that Dan pushed the Serela lynch yesterday and has actually done a decent amount of stuff even if he's a massive lurkhead. Raitaki never waved off the mislynch either; the way he dismissed it as an easy lurker mislynch leaves him room to consolidate on the wagon while distancing him from a potential townflip.

Note that Raitaki is also adding cases on other people to leave himself open to a wagon on them; it's not like he's only posting on Shadoweh. And what would he do anyway as scum, backtrack on the Shadoweh suspicion just because other people told him to?

There's also how everybody has posted so far in D2 and nobody has even given a thought to Raitaki being town yet iirc, if Raitaki were scum this would mean that their last buddy would be bussing him and that's a horrible scum strategy after a D1 scum lynch. Most of what I just said is circunstancial evidence and it gets kinda WIFOM-y at points, but even so his stubborn grip on the Shadoweh vote even with the big wagon on him makes me think that he either sucks really hard at being scum or he's town, and like somebody said at some point in some game some time ago I prefer to believe scum are not batshit incompetent.
Scum is getting stomped this game, I think the last buddy is going to want to bus because Raitaki is going down today. I'll talk more about this later.

Vhaltz, have you read any of my Raitaki case or did you just ignore it for the theory that I'm scumbuddies with Dormio? I'll read and respond to your Dormio thing later.

Also Shadoweh how is that a logical conclusion at all. One was a mystery vote, the other was a secret lowering of the lynch threshold; scum wouldn't want to draw attention to that because they want the accidental hammer (if that was indeed an actual mechanic and not just a mod mistake)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 23, 2013, 10:11:58 AM
One was a mystery vote that scum had and Raitaki knew about that he spent a bunch of time screaming about
The second was a mod error by the looks of it, but that's why it would be a Thing for aspiring scum to point out and omg about!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 10:17:01 AM
Let's slapfight Conq :V

I was getting paranoia again but then I remembered Raikaria sounded a lot like town screwing up really bad so nevermind really. Still think Dormio is likely to be scum and I'm baffled that none of you seems to care.
Said I'd read further into Raitaki later when I get back from work. I have like 30 free minutes now because gel electrophoresis takes forever and I get to just sit and wait here.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 10:34:28 AM
I'm just skimming because I gotta go real soon but If I'm reading your Raitaki case correctly the core is that he's having reads go both ways so he could bullshit up a case on anybody, right?

That's like the exact same thing with Dormio concealing and refusing to give reads except Dormio isn't exposing himself to criticism to his content. Dormio's scumminess is about what -isn't- there.

I also haven't read any Raitaki!Town so I can't meta on him while I can meta on Dormio and this Dormio sounds like scum.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 23, 2013, 10:36:11 AM
One was a mystery vote that scum had and Raitaki knew about that he spent a bunch of time screaming about
The second was a mod error by the looks of it, but that's why it would be a Thing for aspiring scum to point out and omg about!

Oh I see Zak edited the vc post that makes my previous statement kinda stupid. :V

Still:

1) It's possible he missed it because really who pays that much attention to votecounts anyway
2) If he knew it was a mod error (because what kind of townie would have that sort of power and use it unannounced) it's possible he just dismissed it as such especially since PX cleared it up in the next votecount
3) It's a dumb thing to point out when you're focusing on bs'ing a case and Raitaki wants his scum game to be better than that

(Also Shadoweh not everyone is as lazy a scumbag as you are, when I'm scum I actually take the time to reread the thread and make cases that don't sound like complete poppycock to me, it's why I got so pissed off when everyone attacked me as Endymion b/c I thought my position was perfectly reasonable)

Really there are lots of possibilities so if you want to point to that for Raitaki town you're going to have to do better than that. :V

Vhaltz: Well the best I could come up with for my Dormio town read was gut so I don't actually have a reason for town!Dormio unlike my other townreads, it's true. I'll look into him later today and post about it, but I don't think Dormio is The Scum You're Looking For (TM).

Also I'm up for slapfights anyday, but first I gotta eat.

Cut: Not really, I'll go into detail later. Also I'll post lots of DORMIO META about Dormio not doing stuff. His not-doing-stuff is non-alignment-indicative imo.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 23, 2013, 10:58:45 AM
Dormio:
Question for aforementioned BT:What does "a good read" mean?
It means I generally thought it was a good avenue to pursue.

Like, as I pointed out in that post, I don't agree with everything, but it didn't leave me with the impression that this shouldn't be explored.

My opinion isn't established yet.

Val: what you could do is look for points that haven't been brought up by anyone and present them. We'll help you figure out if they're good or bad. :D

VM: Dormio was SCUM in NHK. His latest scum game. Also caught by huhwhat at around page 20, which is why I wanted to read it in the first place but it ended up not helping much at all.

Dan: stop lurking.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 11:34:46 AM
More small breaks. Today's work is just preparing things and waiting for things to happen apparently.

Cut: Not really, I'll go into detail later. Also I'll post lots of DORMIO META about Dormio not doing stuff. His not-doing-stuff is non-alignment-indicative imo.

He could be abusing this to coast. He's not only not doing anything though, he also justifies by posting in thread about steam, disinterest etc repeatedly which is personally what irks both Mitsuki and I the most in all we've mentioned about Dormio. It's like a repeat of Serela's opening post going "hey guys don't bother looking at me D1 this game I'll be busy doing other things even though I signed up for mafia". Scum would feel the need to justify themselves much more than town which is also what Dormio's reply to my case is all about, justification of not playing the game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 11:44:56 AM
Anyway, let's see here.
My thoughts surrounding Dan and Raitaki don't seem like they'll be changing any time soon. So wasting more effort than it takes for me to remind myself that they exist is pointless.

BT just reads weird to me but I can't place it and it's probably paranoia. Which is probably why I'll forget about it for now in favor of ~lynch Dan and Raitaki~.

He could be abusing this to coast. He's not only not doing anything though, he also justifies by posting in thread about steam, disinterest etc repeatedly which is personally what irks both Mitsuki and I the most in all we've mentioned about Dormio. It's like a repeat of Serela's opening post going "hey guys don't bother looking at me D1 this game I'll be busy doing other things even though I signed up for mafia". Scum would feel the need to justify themselves much more than town which is also what Dormio's reply to my case is all about, justification of not playing the game.
When I say disinterest, it's disinterest in the players, not the game.
I honestly don't understand why you want me to post about people that I'm not looking to lynch.
For what reason other than wasting time that I could be using to do other things do I need to provide reasons for why I think certain people aren't scum?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 11:46:30 AM
Like, seriously, why the fuck do I have to post about people that aren't important in my opinion?
People that I think are scummy should be lynched and that means that the people I don't think should be lynched are people that I don't think are scummy and I don't want to waste words talking about people that I don't think are scummy.
Why do you have such a big problem with this?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 11:47:35 AM
Also, my apologies if I sound irate, but issues between my mother and I have been bothering me for the past month.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 11:49:21 AM
Of course, things are very different when I'm bored and I usually end up making a bunch of posts like what I'm doing now.
I think I'm going to remake a case for lynching Raitaki and Dan while I'm at it.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 11:50:17 AM
Because even though Dan doesn't have much to his name that doesn't mean that he's been doing nothing at all and I feel like actually delving into his posts.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 23, 2013, 12:03:39 PM
Eh, I'm not attached enough to Raitaki to throw myself in his way. Maybe he should just claim so we can get it out of the way. I doubt he has anything but etc.
Dormio, the only real question I have is why you think SB is town, because most other people aren't seeing it. I don't think other specifics matter.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 12:12:09 PM
So first of all I think I will start with Raitaki, since that's where my vote is and all.

So, looking at Raitaki's D1 to begin, we have a laughably weak case on Shadoweh here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998498.html#msg998498).
Preceded by this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997827.html#msg997827), where he basically states that he reads Shadoweh as being scummy for ~some reason~.
When he expands upon that reason, he basically says that he thinks that Shadoweh is scummy because Shadoweh accused Raikaria of being passive whilst not following through on her own suspicions. Except for on Raikaria and Validon. It's pretty hilarious that he effectively accuses Shadoweh of being hypocritical in regards to accusing others of being passive while not doing anything herself when Raitaki himself points out that Shadoweh is actually using that accusation as fodder against Raikaria.
The entire vote on Shadoweh looks really forced to me, as if Raitaki was simply looking for somewhere to park his vote while he tried to think up something better.
He then follows this up with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999915.html#msg999915) where he says that Shadoweh isn't accusing anyone of being scummy. This is based on a misunderstanding of Shadoweh's terminology, but when other (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999949.html#msg999949) people (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000065.html#msg1000065) (there are probably more instances of it being called out on but I'm too lazy to look for all of them) mention that Raitaki's argument is based on a faulty premise, what is his response?
To completely change his argument (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000096.html#msg1000096).
To me, it really looks like Raitaki is being far too forced with his Shadoweh case. Or something.
Will post about Dan later. Maybe.
Also, you should vote for Raitaki.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 12:12:36 PM
Dormio, the only real question I have is why you think SB is town, because most other people aren't seeing it. I don't think other specifics matter.
Will also respond to this later. Maybe.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 12:36:26 PM
Now, as for Dan.

Well, this is always incriminating.
I get the feeling Serela is town this game.  based only on style of posts.
But by itself it doesn't really mean much.
What I basically see from Dan this game is nothing.
To elucidate on this point, he has virtually no solid opinions on who is scum throughout the entire game.
First content post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997959.html#msg997959) translates approximately to: "I don't think you're being townie but I don't want to vote for you".
His next significant post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998682.html#msg998682) consists of the removal of his random vote and a statement that Serela is town because ~gut~.
His next activity is a series (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998959.html#msg998959) of (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998999.html#msg998999) posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999040.html#msg999040) that list off several townreads with no reason given whatsoever.
I ask (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999041.html#msg999041) Dan for an explanation for his townreads, but the response is less than stellar (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999064.html#msg999064).
After shooting off a bunch of townreads, he explains none of them. What he gives us instead is a one line case on Raitaki and a short paragraph on BBM.
Though, from what I can tell, Dan's argument against BBM at this point is almost entirely regarding his initial post about the role PM. Considering that there were other people that made jokes about the same subject, and that one could argue that joking about it is even more incriminating due to the fact that it would draw less suspicion while still planting the idea in people's mind that they had received a town PM, I think that having this as his only point against BBM is very lazy and therefore scummy.
In Dan's next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999223.html#msg999223) he switches to Serela for whom he had previously produced a townread fairly early with no reason given whatsoever. His townread did shift into a "bordering on scummy" read in his list post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999064.html#msg999064) but there was no reasoning given.
It's like, townreads which can change with no explanation whatsoever is even more worthless than non-mentions.
I'll also note that in the vote where Dan votes for Serela, he states that Raitaki is likely to be attempting to play to a different meta if he's scum again. However, what Dan does not mention is how he thinks that Raitaki might be playing differently when compared to before. I feel that this is especially important given that Dan has been voting for Raitaki for the entirety of today for no reason other than his early day 1 vote.
Oh, and he's basically lurking.
So, yeah, Dan should die too in the near future.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 12:39:16 PM
Now, why do I think Bananas is town?
Mostly gut and getting the feeling that Bananas is trying really hard to find scum.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 12:39:51 PM
And, with that, I think it's time for me to go play video games or something.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 23, 2013, 02:23:53 PM
posting.

difference in Raitaki's posting styles.  paragraph posts now versus 3 lines per post as Rumia.  was a response to VM.  didn't have time to go into every town read before. 

Conq/VM are obvious.  Shadoweh makes sense isn't bullshitting cases etc.  Validon just.. is earnest in a way I don't think his scum game could possibly be at this stage.

the rest I labeled in-betweens because either I didn't fully agree with them or else I thought they made mountains out of molehills. Hard to explain.  Didn't really feel like it then.  Forgot my more nuanced reasoning now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 02:51:20 PM
I've talked with Mitsuki and I think we're willing to drop Dormio for the time being. The AtE is a thing but there's this whole post barrage afterwards that reads pretty genuine. I could be wrong and he's still scum, but yeah not gonna push anymore.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 03:00:11 PM
That's pretty weak.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 03:02:50 PM
Why wouldn't you push me any more when my behaviour is still the same?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
I dunno, I need sleep and the drop looks pretty bad to the sleep deprived me.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 23, 2013, 03:06:47 PM
Probably because it's also so wishy washy. Anyway, sleep.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 04:23:03 PM
There's two of us in this slot. Mitsuki had stopped liking our case on you earlier than I did (I grew more convinced about it instead) and she also read your posts as townier, increasingly more in the past few hours. At this point pursuing the Dormio case was not only something I would have do on my own given the zero support both by my partner and by people in-thread, but it would also make me feel terrible to push the case as hard as I would need to to get people to listen to me because of the AtE. Hence why I said I kinda feel like the case still stands but I see no point in continuing with it today. This is probably me just feeling resentful towards the possibility of scum!Dormio using AtE to get me off him.

Either way I have to admit that Mitsuki is right with Dormio reading increasingly townier by the minute and I've been wrong about scumreads I was fairly sure of before so I probably just suck at reading Dormio.
At least we got a nice townread out of the case I guess.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 04:28:08 PM
##Unkill
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 05:07:25 PM
First Votecount
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Raitaki:    BT (1)
Serela:    Shadoweh (1)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo (2)

First DEATHCOUNT
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh (2)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Incoming Count
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, ActionDan (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh, BBM, Dormio (4)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Dust in the Wind
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio (3)
BBM:     Conqueror, Validon, ActionDan (3)
BT:    Affinity (1)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Dust Kick Slide
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
BBM:     Validon, ActionDan (2)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Speeding Gumball
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98 (5)

Pudding for Dinner
Validon98:    Shadoweh, Serious Bananas (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT (6)

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

I thought I might get something out of the updated version but the only thing that bugs me is Incoming Votecount to Cats howling in the night where ActionDan removes himself from the Shadoweh wagon with an empty unvote after Raitaki hops onto Shadoweh. Is it possible that the whole scumteam was onto Shadoweh at that point and it prompted Dan to unvote?

fakedit: On second thought I don't think Dan and Raitaki can be buddies because Dan suggested a Raitaki lynch lateD1 and opened D2 with a vote on him, effectively bringing attention to him. Or is there precendence for scum!Dan bussing his colleagues this hard?
Raitaki's flip could give associative reads on people who wanted his lynch lateD1 (Dan, Shadoweh). I think I'm fine with Shadoweh's call for his claim now because it doesn't look like his wagon is going to die down anytime soon and we might as well not wait too long just in case switches are to be made.

I dunno, VCA is not something I've successfully used before to catch scum. Leaving this here in case somebody else can get something more out of it as it is now. Still have to finish SB/Dan/Raitaki ISOs as well as read the cases on them more carefully.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 23, 2013, 05:13:51 PM
So Raitaki and SB are both lurking.

Someone place the L-1. This is dragging.

Things I want to do: actually get something out of the VCAs (thanks for the reminder) and actually read Dormio fully myself. Not sure if I have the motivation to do any of 'em, we'll see.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 23, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
Headcount
Raitaki:           ActionDan, Dormio, Conqueror, BT (4)
Shadoweh:     Raitaki (1)
S. Bananas:    Affinity, Validon98 (2)
Validon98:     Serious Bananas (1)

Raitaki is at K-2
With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to kill.
You have 30 Hours left in the day (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130724T18&p0=2374&msg=Night+2)
No (overall) changing in voting.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 05:26:27 PM
Wait a second. There's also Cats howling in the night to Dust in the Wind, where ActionDan joins the BBM wagon filled with three townies for lackluster reasoning (note that my Serela case and vote happens after he votes BBM). This was potentially a critical juncture for wagon consolidation on BBM if the Serela wagon hadn't come up seemingly out of nowhere in the last 10 hours of the day.

Dan flip would give less good associated reads but they'd be on potential lynches (Raitaki). Raitaki's tunnel vision on Shadoweh is WIFOM-y hard to read whereas Dan's wagon hopping is more abundant and reads outright scummier.

Cut by BT. Dan was also lurking and his latest post is unimpressive.

But then there's how Dan voiced his opposition to the Shadoweh wagon when the Serela wagon was building which is uuuurgh.

I'll vote Raitaki to get his claim once I'm done reading him and it doesn't sound like a very bad idea.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 23, 2013, 05:41:12 PM
IRL issues, I hate you sometimes, you know.
Well, uh, looks like I missed the whole big thing between VM and Dormio. I mean, Dormio's attitude kind of angered me a bit, but I haven't really seen anything from his overall posts that makes me feel like he's scum.
My mind since my last post on who's scum is still the same: SB and Raitaki. I'm also adding Dan back to that list because Dan also seems like he's lurking again and his last post wasn't really that helpful at all. In fact he hasn't been too helpful period.
@BT: You sure we should do this? I mean, I'm worried that someone might hammer him before he gets back to us with a claim, but seeing as it adds more pressure it's a risk we're going to have to take.

##Unkill
##Kill: Raitaki


No one hammer before Raitaki responds!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 23, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
I assume we're all mature enough to understand the consequences of hammering without a claim.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 23, 2013, 09:12:26 PM
Welp, it's close to bedtime and Raitaki isn't coming around to claim so I guess I'll put this out.


See Raitaki's Affinity case, which basically convinces me that Raitaki is basically just cherrypicking random questionable posts out of people's ISOs (or just not reading them at all) because his case on Affinity focuses on how Affinity drops BT for Shadoweh but there's no mention of the actually questionable part of Affinity's posts, which is the defense of Serela and the swing to the Shadoweh wagon at a crucial point in the wagons.

The rest of the case reads not so solid but I had completely overlooked that Raitaki ignored all of the other questionable Affinity things. Sorry for totally skimming your posts earlier Conq I just thought you wanted to backstab me back then.

Also parts of what I recently said regarding VCA and Raitaki/Dan scumteam were already in Conq's yesterday posts that I had barely read, so I feel less paranoid when finding that we followed very similar trains of thought and reached the same conclusions.

Okay so here's what I got after reading SB and Raitaki.

I started reading SB from Dormio's POV of "scumhunting hard" since at least SB's conclusions in #318 flow logically from a NoMeta standpoint. He clears me because of the hard Serela push etc. But the closer we look, the bigger the bunch of scummy things becomes. BT mentioned how he voted Dan with Validon only to later be reminded how much he hated Validon and proceeded to vote Validon again on a "newbs can be scum" case and this is a really legit point against him since one would not just go and vote along with a top scumread. I kept ignoring most of his D1 stuff because the post layout was horrible and I didn't care if he thought we were scummy because he'd end up finding out we're town on his own, but there's how he kept poking at our play and said he measures scumminess in the way of "number of things he dislikes". This is pretty bad because it means he never has to fully explain why anything he doesn't like is actually scummy from his point of view. I also poked back at some of his points occasionally like I did when calling him out on saying my posts were full of "fluffa" just because I'm wordy. I encouraged him to prove his point in hopes he would realize his own mistake as town but instead he proceeded to sidestep the issue by admitting it and talking about something else instead (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999283.html#msg999283), which is scummy. He also throws out an empty promise for a post at the end of that same #205 but never follows up on it despite having 4 hours until deadline. We also never saw this post come to light at the beginning of D2 which is what I would've expected from a townie stepping up his game after a not so good D1.

I also initially thought SB might be scum because killing BBM meant there's no scum!meta to use on him, but then it became obvious that he was a good target whatever the scumteam was, since BT was the other not-getting-docced alternative and he was under general suspicion throughout mid-lateD1. I decided to ignore SB after I thought this and haven't really gotten to reading him until Mitsuki pulled me into it earlier this afternoon. Pretty scummy overall but unsure if he'll flip scum.

Raitaki sounds like he's playing now (unlike in Sereliest) but note that this is when being a general suspect, I can't really call it reactive scumhunting due to the big content hole in mid-lateD1, but his D1 Shadoweh case did kinda sound Rumia-ish so there's that. His grip on the Shadoweh vote despite the wagon is baffling but I'll agree that it can be seen both ways, Mitsuki also thinks it's scummy and at this point I think she's being the voice of reason in our QT while I just go insane on everything.
The worst thing is how Raitaki's #316 replies to BT's call for his reads. He continued to comment on Shadoweh in his reply and sidestepped his reads request which is quite scummy unless you consider "blarf still workng on other people. Nothing definitive yet." an answer, and that would mean Raitaki literally has reads up in the air for every player in the game that's not Shadoweh. That's even worse than what I've been pushing Dormio for, at least I knew what he thought about three players. /taking shots at Dormio for not playing

Also on this reads issue since I'm bringing it up again. @Dormio: I always think reads on people who are not The Scum You Want To Lynch are Very Important because they have to flow logically from a town perspective in response to new content. People usually bring up general town reads painting a target on people as a reason to not do this but as long as scum isn't outright retarded they'll have the gist of who the towniest players are anyway so there's no reason to not do this other than :effort:
And I totally understand Kitten4u now. Mafia is serious business and it screws up the game when players don't care much about it.


I still have to read Dan and maybe Affinity/Shadoweh because my townreads on those last two are somewhat WIFOM-y coming from Serela associations and not so solid, I figure one of them is bound to be scum if lynching the Dan/SB/Raitaki trio doesn't end the game, not Validon. The only thing is we don't really have three mislynches though, just two, so I'm really hoping the flips give more hard data to work on =/
Serela/Shadoweh/Affinity is unlikely because scum!Affinity voting Shadoweh when he could've just bussed his weaker buddy makes little sense.


Might as well read Dan before leaving for dinner since he has so little content.
He says he'll have to read further into Raitaki in his #285 and this is pretty terrible? it implies the earlier vote had no reasoning backing it. Also he never follows up on this until his most recent post  #367 where all he brings up is a meta difference which actually works in favour of Raitaki!Town instead of Raitaki!Scum. He doesn't think to move his vote in spite of this though, which kinda reads like he's posting for the sake of posting and looking townie rather than scumhunting. It was pretty much a prod-dodge as well, but the post sounds kind of rushed, so I'm not sure how telling of his alignment this ends up being in the end. What bothers me the most out of all his content is his softdefense of SB in his #285 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999948.html#msg999948) where he says he nitpicked everybody equally when he had clear focuses. He never nitpicked anything on Serela, BT or Conq, off the top of my head.
Mitsuki is also kinda paranoid regarding Dan because he totally had her fooled with his fake arriving late to deadline last game.


I'm not sure if I prefer an SB or a Raitaki lynch yet, there's scummy things in both but I'm not convinced that particularly one of them will flip scum. My vote gets to go to SB for now anyway because Raitaki is at L-1 already.

##Kill: SB
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 23, 2013, 09:23:16 PM
Feeling sickish so I probably won't make the posts I talked about since I'm sitting in front of my screen at 5 am.

Still fine with Raitaki lynch.

SB probably still for tomorrow.

Dormio is a jerk.

I'll be around to check the game after work in like 12-14 hours.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 23, 2013, 09:27:28 PM
My mind since my last post on who's scum is still the same: SB and Raitaki. I'm also adding Dan back to that list because Dan also seems like he's lurking again and his last post wasn't really that helpful at all. In fact he hasn't been too helpful period.

Validon could you clarify on this? I didn't really see any mention of Raitaki scum in your ISO before beyond "I'll look into this guy later" so...
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 23, 2013, 10:01:04 PM
Oh, sorry. I was partially basing it off of other reads on him. Here, let me give an actual read from looking at his posts myself:
First of all... he only has 5 posts that have actual content. He's been coasting this entire time on Shadoweh and while I understand that he was not pleased with Shadoweh's behavior, he hasn't at all responded to any of Shadoweh's recent defenses and that looks scummy to me. Then there's this:

Quote
ActionDan: I can see why he's having a wagon on him. But on the other hand, voting him is easy as hell and he's not even TRYING to be helpful or town, and Dan usually posts little as both alignments until later anyway, so I dunno about him yet. I guess he's on the level of the average lurker in my book, which isn't very high up the lynch-o-meter.

You know, Raitaki, the longer he continues to act like this the less I'm willing to trust him.  That and he still hasn't claimed. This looks scummy to me.
So in other words, I was right voting him but it was originally just based off of other people's opinions, while now it's based off of an actual read. Which isn't much because seriously, 5 posts with any sort of real content in them.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 23, 2013, 10:06:12 PM
Also and by him not claiming, I mean Raitaki. The way it's phrased in my previous post makes it look like I was saying ActionDan hasn't claimed. Which he hasn't, but currently Raitaki's claim is what we're waiting for, not Dan's. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 23, 2013, 10:46:25 PM
Well, he still hasn't posted either. Anyone wanna play hangmafia while we wait?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: SB on July 23, 2013, 11:14:51 PM
Hey guys, when I flip you should totally kill Validon.

SB, I said your posting style was bad in the sense that, as Conq and Affinity have both already brought up, you've voted for various people but have been flip-flopping so much. Relevant posts that I agree with:

I know it's just agreeing with someone else's opinions, but I did notice how you've been flip-flopping on votes.

"So much". Really?

In this game I have voted:

-Vhaltz (D1)
-Validon (D1)
-Dan (D2)
-Validon again (D2)

I don't really see this as flip flopping. In both phases I've only has 2 votes, which is actually less than you have Validon. There's also something else I remembered about just now. You talked about Shadoweh's vote on you being dumb earlier (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998585.html#msg998585) due to since uses stuff like "conviction" as a way to gauge how he reads someone, yet later on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000157.html#msg1000157) you quote Conq, agreeing about my lack of conviction being scummy.

Also, when you accuse me of being opportunistic with this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000078.html#msg1000078) vote on me? Are you kidding? Pretty sure you've been more opportunistic with your vote than I have. I voted Dan after he had one vote on him, after I expressed suspicions on him yesterday that you acknowledged and then even agreed with my point (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998858.html#msg998858). Know something else? You only became suspicious of me after Affinity's case, and only voted for me after Conq said that he agreed. How is this NOT more opportunistic than what I've done?

So, time to rip apart Dan's vote!
"I know sheeping is bad but I'm gonna do it anyway. I don't like his posting style even though I don't say why, and even though that's a dumb reason to vote for him in the first place. He's also not convinicing (not gonna bother explaining trololol) or orderly (which isn't a point either.) I'm also too lazy to read the other main wagon right now!"

Would post more but I'm starting to get annoyed and AtE is not fun for anyone to deal with.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 23, 2013, 11:40:39 PM
Threadcount
Raitaki:           ActionDan, Dormio, Conqueror, BT Validon98 (5)
Shadoweh:     Raitaki (1)
S. Bananas:    Affinity, Vhaltzo (2)
Validon98:     Serious Bananas (1)

Raitaki is at K-1
With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to kill.
You have 23.3 Hours left in the day (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130724T18&p0=2374&msg=Night+2)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 24, 2013, 01:51:16 AM
I am posting so I don't die in a fire-y modkill.

I have absolutely nothing to say. 

Other than this lynch will happen eventually so I am happy it will probably be happening
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 24, 2013, 03:59:28 AM
Urgh welp. I claim Mafia Stalker. It's basically even-night cop. I target a person and get their role.

I would try to do something else but kind of pissed right now so eh :S Guess I can read around and answer questions instead
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 24, 2013, 04:16:00 AM
You'll have to tell me what my motivation for coaching a Good Guy I'm trying to lynch is, unless you're suggesting we're partners.
To me the combination of coaching and wanting to lynch made it look like you were trying to lynch them for being bad instead of scum, and since you didn't suggest they were scummy you would be able to take the read either way later easily.
I do find it odd that he posted almost immediately after that votecount confusion happened, but didn't mention it. I say this because in MMM2 when it happened he spent an entire page of spamposts talking about the conspiracyness of it making himself sound loud and proud. I have to conclude that the only reason he missed it and didn't bother commenting on it is both because he was actually rereading like he said he was, and none of his buddies mentioned it in the QT.  I don't know about you but when I'm scum and I say I'm rereading I'm actually watching Hell's Kitchen or something.
PX fixed it before I posted, so I waved it off as mod error.
He then follows this up with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999915.html#msg999915) where he says that Shadoweh isn't accusing anyone of being scummy. This is based on a misunderstanding of Shadoweh's terminology, but when other (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999949.html#msg999949) people (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000065.html#msg1000065) (there are probably more instances of it being called out on but I'm too lazy to look for all of them) mention that Raitaki's argument is based on a faulty premise, what is his response?
To completely change his argument (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000096.html#msg1000096).
Uh, what? My argument was still hinging on the fact Shadoweh's "scumreads" were there only cuz they were bad play and she never implied she wanted them lynched for scumminess :\
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 05:02:47 AM
You mean like a rolecop?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 05:32:03 AM
And I assume you mean even-day cop, since this is the night phase. You know, it doesn't help that you claimed Cop when you were scum in GHW. Are you done trying to lynch me yet? You don't coach people you're trying to kill, it's to your advantage if they keep looking like Terrible People so people want them dead.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 05:34:15 AM
So, uh, Raitaki forgot to comment on his night target?
Or do town rolecops generally not out their results?

Mostly inclined to think it's bullshit because I can't find crumbs for the role OR the investigation. Will elaborate later if I get breaks.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 05:41:28 AM
Wait he claimed even-day rolecop.


But then again the phase with the actions happening in it is D2.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 24, 2013, 08:20:47 AM
But it's N2.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 24, 2013, 08:21:25 AM
Either way, my mind hasn't changed in regards to Raitaki.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 08:46:18 AM
yes raitaki please clarify as to when your role is active and what targets you chose

also you just claimed and are sitting there like you want to be lynched because you gave no reads, not even on the other wagons (validon and sb) electing to still vote and poke at shadoweh who it is pretty clear is not getting lynched

it pretty much looks like you don't care and are just hoping the claim will do something. reminds me of how you played nue in ten desires.


@SB, your complaints about Validon read fairly valid, but weren't you going to talk about Raitaki when you said you didn't like him in your last post?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 08:51:37 AM
ebwop: also what role results would you get on a mafia goon for instance
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 24, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
@SB: Sometimes I overlook or ignore certain people when I first go through the thread. Sometimes people notice certain things that I have failed to pick up on, and when I go back and look, it does seem that way. I understand that looks like I'm just be opportunistic, so I see where you are coming from. As for Shadoweh, are you seriously saying that "full of conviction" line means anything? No, I was talking about how Shadoweh did not seem serious with her vote. This is what prompted my "full of CONVICTION" remark:

Raitaki I'm sorry you got stuck with Validon as a Bad Guy Team buddy but voting me when I'm full of CONVICTION isn't going to save you. Accusing me of coasting after posting something like five wall posts, especially when you've posted half as much as me if I'm being generous, means you can fuck right off and die tomorrow.

That combined with her post where she voted me here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998350.html#msg998350) made it so that I could not take her vote seriously at all and I thought she was trying to push a bad case on me. My beef with her was that her "conviction" looked false and overplayed because Shadoweh does that so much I can't help but think that. My beef with you is that you vote people yet don't have too much conviction, and right now your last post is pretty much defensive and an attempt to break up the reasoning for people voting you. Really now, who do you think is scum besides me? What is your opinion on Raitaki?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 11:04:17 AM
You have consistently not believed me, but I was serious when I said it. At the very least it's an expression of me enjoying getting into the game by pushing against what I feel are suspicious actions. Right now I'm kind of bored because Rairai left like ten minutes after claiming and it's not obvious whether he had to go or he's just lurking in the mason QT. (Because it's not a scum QT!) Bored isn't exactly the right word. Frustrated more like because I want to talk to him right now. Have I mentioned I hate lurkers?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Validon98 on July 24, 2013, 11:54:54 AM
Shadoweh, that's only because that's how I've always perceived you in all three games I've played so far. The style of many of your early posts makes it hard to tell when or when you are not serious. At this point because of your explanation I am not accusing you of not being serious, but your behavior at the time suggested otherwise. I'm a serious person: seeing over-the-top posts makes me, for the most part, go "wait what" and wonder what the hell is going through your mind. Do realize at this point I no longer have a "beef" with you. It's just a repeat of I Wanna Be the Sereliest at this point, except last time you weren't as serious with the vote while this time you were. Can you see why I get confused by you so easily? ^^;
As for Raitaki, yeah, he's been a really bad lurker. His claim is like the 6th post of his with some sort of actual content, 7th if you count his quick vote of you early on N2. So I can understand your frustration with him.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 12:04:57 PM
##Unkill: SB

Unenabling lynch on SB for now just in case.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 12:52:04 PM
Why? :V The only reason a lynch would happen on SB is if Raitaki explains himself satisfyingly, or someone explains why we should stop voting him. Have you considered that you've been a tad paranoid this game?

Oh Vali, I could never hate you. I'm always going to be over the top! I don't always say what my intentions are, but I try not to lie about them.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Affinity on July 24, 2013, 01:04:31 PM
I'm.. not buying the Raitiki claim for reasons already stated.  His play makes no sense for an even-night (day) rolecop; he shows no signs of wanting to get to N2 to use his power etc.  Have no qualms with lynching him.

Other than that, nothing much to talk about other than SB, who seems more interested in defending himself and spiting Validon as a reason to vote him, instead of focusing on more pressing things like Raitiki and what other things people are saying.  Validon's stuff on SB appeases me a bit.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 01:09:45 PM
Iirc I left him at L-2 and I had an ominous feeling about how somebody doing rereads might vote SB at some point and scum!Raitaki could drop in and hammer him for the sake of getting his last buddy closer to the win, specially since nobody seems to be buying the claim.

Pretty sure I want to lynch Raitaki over SB now as well because the claim is iffy in many ways. Phases in this game are especially confusing with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997706.html#msg997706) in mind and clarifications about that when referring to a weak role that can investigate only on even/odd phases were clearly in order given the switch in how phases work. There's no -last scumhunting- in Raitaki's post (like Conq pointed out) and overall I don't really see a mafia rolecop happening in a setup with very few roles and where the town are scum under the pretense of masonry. Reads Very Fake overall.
There's more but I want to know whether he claims to have investigated or not first.

@Shadoweh. Nope, the other possibility is what I just mentioned above, I remembered Sword Girls with both lynch possibilities at L-1 and figured I'd unvote before I headed home just in case. I've always played this paranoid Shadoweh, but as long as everything ends up making sense in my head and I end up lynching scum I don't see any reason to change my ways, you'll just have to put up with my weirdness :V
I just remembered I had to apologize to BBM for giving him a hard time yesterday. Also props for the Serela catch :D
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 24, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
This is a drag.

Fine with just lynching Raitaki and then SB at this point.

Motivation to read the game is at 0 unless Raitaki flips town (red).

See you tomorrow.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
^

=====[]

[]=====
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 02:33:36 PM
I'd hammer hard but Mitsuki's been away since early this morning and she'll get mad at me if I hammer without her here, since she probably has stuff to say and all.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: BT on July 24, 2013, 02:34:21 PM
Note that I didn't ask for a hammer.

I'm fine with waiting for Raitaki to clarify things.

It's just that the lynch will probably remain unchanged and I'm already invested, hence retiring for the day.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 02:36:00 PM
I'm fine with waiting; just don't forget to hammer him before deadline. :V I don't think anything he says will change anything, although you're welcome to talk about other things.

I just want this flip dammit

I guess I have one question. Dormio, why open with Shadoweh today and then immediately switch away from her?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 24, 2013, 02:48:52 PM
Mostly becase ~vote Shadoweh~.
Basically, I didn't reading anything during the night so I put my vote on Shadoweh while I was actually reading stuff.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 02:49:34 PM
Well it sure sounded like Conq wanted the hammer right nao.

Just a reminder for people to check Dan or maybe Affinity/Shadoweh if lynching Raitaki and SB doesn't win the game. SB has done a bunch of scummy things but not having seen him play before I personally don't have that much confidence in SB!scum other than PoE.

If Dormio ends up being scum I'll be very disgusted at his scum play ._.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 24, 2013, 02:53:39 PM
:(
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 02:56:42 PM
I wanted the hammer because I wanted to go to sleep, but then I realized that Zakeri probably won't be here to update before I sleep, so in the end it doesn't matter as long as it's done eventually.

If Dan is scum with Raitaki I'd be impressed. He'd had to have had the most suicidal bussing plan from the beginning of the game.

Shadoweh you're not pulling another balanced game of mafia are you? Tell me straight.  :ohdear:

pedit: dormio is that supposed to mean something
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 03:04:53 PM
If Dan is scum with Raitaki I'd be impressed. He'd had to have had the most suicidal bussing plan from the beginning of the game.

Looking at Dan is something to do if for whatever reason Raitaki flips uninformed majority.
Shadoweh hasn't voted once throughout the whole of D2 so I could see her coasting by on the Serela association reads as scum. I've seen her spend the first 24 hours of the day without voting as town before, though, so maybe she would also do this as town? dunno, still quite a weaker townread than BT/Conq/Dormio.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 03:13:45 PM
nah shadoweh is probably town
iirc she's more likely to spend the day not voting as town where as scum she'd pick a weak target to push
she should TOTALLY CHANGE THAT though
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 03:25:33 PM
True that. I guess that leaves Dan and Affinity wtih Dan being an unlikely buddy for Raitaki. I'm quite convinced Raitaki is scum at this point, though, and Affinity reads town to me this game, but just in case I'm wrong about Raitaki and/or SB.

Dammit Conq why do you have to be not scum. The game would've been so much more fun if I had been right with my insane Dormio/Conq theory.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
I haven't felt the need to vote, and the fact that there's a hueg wagon without my assistance backs me up there. If this were BGoM then Dormio and Raitaki would be my partners, Serela already flipped so we're aokay. (If I were town I'd be obligated to say this anyways to screw with you). I'm not sold on a Rai-green flip yet, but I agree the game is stalled and there isn't a clear consensus on who else should be lynched otherwise.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 04:31:13 PM
Also for my sense of mind as of this post, 6 hours 25 minutes to deadline.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 24, 2013, 04:39:50 PM
Don't worry, I'll be around to hammer. Mitsuki will be back home in 3 hours tops so no big deal.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Raitaki on July 24, 2013, 05:15:33 PM
Blargh. Not one of my best games.

##Kill: Raitaki
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 24, 2013, 05:53:14 PM
^^ ##Celebrate: Cha cha cha
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 24, 2013, 05:57:35 PM
You all wake up to find the corpse of Raitaki lying in the middle of the street.
It appears he was also shot but the wound markings ... well, that's not the important part of the mystery anyways.

Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are Raitaki, The Thundering Waterfall. Or you would be if you were a part of the Mafia.
You are the Town Miller.  If you are the target of an investigation, you will appear as Mafia. Beyond that you have your part to control the nightkill, The Town Lynch, and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
Day 3 will end in approximately 29 Hours. Mostly due to the fact that I won't be able to post between the hours of 7:30 am and 6:00 pm for the entire next week.
Shadoweh replaces Shadoweh effective immediately.
Please send in any day actions should you have one. Remember to send them to both myself and PX.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 09:52:04 PM
Everyone should submit a puzzle (or more) to PX's puzzle thread by the way.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: PX on July 24, 2013, 10:01:00 PM
The last thing we need is more IPs
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 24, 2013, 10:07:50 PM
irrelevant to me; i just want more puzzles
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 24, 2013, 11:31:55 PM
Man, I'm never on in time to post before hammer.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 24, 2013, 11:40:52 PM
Alright guys! Now that I've replaced in we can get those scumbags!  :3
So today I think we should no-lynch because we don't want a townie to die  :)

I'm also terrible with puzzles, I can't even solve the ones that are there <_<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 25, 2013, 04:48:30 AM
I had a dream.
A dream where you cooked your own duck.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 25, 2013, 11:01:40 PM
Vhaltzo has been lynched!
Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are Vhaltzo and Mitsuki, The Twins.
You are the Mafia Cop. Once per day you may select one person. You will then be told if that person is a member of the mafia or of the town. Beyond that you have your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.

With Eight members left alive, it takes 5 votes to decide the nightkill.
Good luck! You have 72 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130728T18&p0=3378&msg=Night+3) to make your choice.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 25, 2013, 11:08:04 PM
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/921269392826268296/74D5020368015A163013FD8A3D0A794D73B45392/)(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/921269392826273208/DD52198E00467EC48B8510B45B00E33574F32008/)
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/921269392826276071/CD822E4CF4A12C092D2C7763EF817113FD62517F/)(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/921269392826279236/70C578DF4CAF33EFA0D677458B7D725D6FC631F7/)

This is pretty much what I've been doing instead of reading mafia during the night (day?) like I should have.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 25, 2013, 11:09:14 PM
##Kill ActionDan
I guess I'll read stuff some time today.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 25, 2013, 11:11:29 PM
Nah.

##Vote SB

VM's D2 target was either BBM or, well, gee, I wonder. <_<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 25, 2013, 11:11:52 PM
##Kill SB

Stop making me do these horrible things.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 25, 2013, 11:36:21 PM
lame

bt if you're implying that shadoweh was vhaltz's cop target i think his target was actually you, given his 180 degree comment plus the fact that he had you as a >>>> townier read than everyone else

that does take a load off my mind though

also ftr if the game doesnt end today i might have to replace out since im moving to a new place again and dont know what my internet situation will be like

in any case

##kill sb
poe plus raitaki connections, interesting that he said he suspected raitaki yesterday and then never followed up on it electing to keep talking at validon even though raitaki was by far the leading wagon
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 25, 2013, 11:39:22 PM
dormio are you implying that scum dan wagoned serela d1, called all the viable counterwagons to the serela wagon town, suggested a flash wagon on his other scumbuddy as a counter to that serela wagon, and then immediately bussed that buddy the next day?

dormio even you didnt have the balls to vig px when you were scumbuddies together, scum do have a miminum sense of self-preservation you know
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 25, 2013, 11:41:31 PM
I was implying that I was it. So yes.

SB has also yet to answer why he'd go with a quick Dan vote over what appeared later to be a stronger Val vote, when Val was one of the quick wagoners. Also connections to flipped scum by way of lack of connections.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 25, 2013, 11:42:19 PM
Why did you think I hinted at Shadoweh there?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 25, 2013, 11:44:28 PM
oh. well you should have mentioned it. >_>

i thought you were hinting at shadoweh because his most memorable 180 was on shadoweh yesterday; i had to reread to find where he flipped on you because i didn't remember him saying much about you
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 25, 2013, 11:46:43 PM
dormio even you didnt have the balls to vig px when you were scumbuddies together, scum do have a miminum sense of self-preservation you know
Lies. I would have totally shot PX if it weren't for him yelling at me on teamspeak not to for an hour.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 25, 2013, 11:48:00 PM
STOP SENDING ME WEIRD SHIT IN THE MORNING DORMIO MYSTERIOUS PERSON
Actually this one is kinda cute. I'll keep it for.. reasons... yes..

I think it would be cool if SB just claimed so we could lynch real fast if he messes up his claim as bad as Raitaki did yesterday.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Validon98 on July 25, 2013, 11:49:52 PM
Well, I finished reading Episode 2 of Umineko only to see that VM is dead. First we lost our doctor, now our cop. Well, there isn't much left to go on, right?

##Kill: Serious Bananas

Why, when Raitaki was such a major wagon, did you more or less just go along with it? You didn't post any reasons to why you were voting him iirc. You just acted as the hammer in case no one else would. That's heavily suspicious. What were your thoughts on Raitaki before you hammered?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 25, 2013, 11:51:14 PM
Why, when Raitaki was such a major wagon, did you more or less just go along with it? You didn't post any reasons to why you were voting him iirc. You just acted as the hammer in case no one else would. That's heavily suspicious. What were your thoughts on Raitaki before you hammered?

what. are we reading the same game here?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 25, 2013, 11:52:50 PM
##unkill
validon are you just making stuff up
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 25, 2013, 11:53:19 PM
what. are we reading the same game here?
I think I know but I'll let him answer.

I think it would be cool if SB just claimed so we could lynch real fast if he messes up his claim as bad as Raitaki did yesterday.
Remember that time we lynched Serela in an hour? That was fun. He flipped town but it was still fun.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 12:04:55 AM
The answer to lynching Serela is always YES! And also more. I don't think SB posted between Rairai claiming and him being hammered did he?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Affinity on July 26, 2013, 12:14:17 AM
Maybe Validon mixed up Raitiki and Serela.  Oh well.

Actually, I'm a bit not sure if SB is the remaining scum.  If he was, I would expect him to be more buddy-conscious and actually defend him or at least acknowledge him when almost everyone else was doing so.  Then again, Serela and Raitiki have been playing suicidally so I don't know.

Will ##Kill: ActionDan for now.  Details later.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 26, 2013, 12:14:45 AM
The Thursday Count
ActionDan:             Dormio, Affinity (2)
Serious Bananas:   BT, Conqueror, Validon98 (2)

8 blah 5 blah
70ish blah countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130728T18&p0=3378&msg=Night+3).
Stricken out kills are kills that were made but unmade before logging, and will not show up in future killcounts unless they rekill or something
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: ActionDan on July 26, 2013, 12:52:00 AM
Well I'm all out of suspects.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: ActionDan on July 26, 2013, 01:11:31 AM
Affinity.

Hurr Durr?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Validon98 on July 26, 2013, 01:29:43 AM
##unkill
validon are you just making stuff up

Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerp.

Maybe Validon mixed up Raitiki and Serela.  Oh well.

Right, that was for Serela. Hurr durr. Sorry, I forgot! Still, SB hasn't said a whole lot in regards to Raitaki, and in fact in Day 2, he's only had five posts (two of which don't even have really any content, so he's actually been lurking just as much, but unlike Raitaki his posts have been a bit more vocal). I mean, here's some of his stuff on Raitaki:

Quote
Need to reread Shadoweh and dislike Raik.

Quote
Raitaki's post #90 isn't a good vote for shadoweh imo, it's like, "shadoweh hasn't talked about how she (is shadoweh a she?) suspects people other than the people she's voting for.)" I felt like I was kind of townreading her earlier so this might be part of the reason for it, and telling people to get content isn't a bad thing.

From reading his stuff and looking for his content on Raitaki, there's... really not that much. He calls Raitaki out over the Shadoweh thing but other than that he never brings up Raitaki once, even while there's a big wagon on him. Instead he chose to focus on me instead. That's fishy. Really fishy.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 06:35:49 AM
So I've been doing a big sort of the stuff on my computer for the past couple of hours. I figured that I might as well read and post while I back up my images which have somehow managed to grow in size to 180gb. So, yeah, reading now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 06:51:15 AM
It's sad when backing up my pictures folder can literally take hours.

Anyway supposing that, for some unknown reason, scum actually want to survive or something instead of riding in a destruction derby with buses everywhere and therefore removing Shadoweh and Dan from my suspect pool.
##Unkill ActionDan
##Kill BT

Will post again soon. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 07:00:44 AM
f5 f5 f5 f5 f5
I'm literally doing nothing but hitting f5 and seeing if Banana has claimed yet. Do you think he'd appear if we sing?

This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-N-A-S!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 07:12:55 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/i7m5geh.jpg)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 26, 2013, 08:24:15 AM
f5 f5 f5 f5 f5
I'm literally doing nothing but hitting f5 and seeing if Banana has claimed yet. Do you think he'd appear if we sing?

This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-N-A-S!

One too many N-As, Shadoweh.

If you're going to quote a terrible song, at least do it right. :P


Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 08:27:16 AM
Sshh BBM, you're dead and we're still playing the mafia even if this is looking like a typical town performance.
Besides, I'm pretty sure the song itself gets it wrong due to how badly it's stuck in my head.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 08:30:11 AM
Okay, after listening to the song again you are correct, though now I have the problem of having listened to that song recently.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 09:05:02 AM
okay yeah nvm everyone else is literally town
#kill sb
sb, please claim so we can get this over with
dormio did you miss vhaltz's cop flip and his investigation crumbs
REMEMBER MICRO 31 DORMIO
REMEMBER DAN TRACKING SHADOWEH
REMEMBER HOW YOU IGNORED THE CRUMB
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 09:07:10 AM
shadoweh did you really not know how to spell bananas  :colbert:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Can I just say "tl;dr BT is scum for doing some really scummy shit so let's lynch him."?
Guess not.

Well, first of all, let's summarize what BT's been doing this game.
Early D1, when the whole Vhaltz thing with the confirms was happening, BT's response (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997864.html#msg997864) to the entire ordeal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997867.html#msg997867) is pretty much non-existent.
I mean, he doesn't give an actual stance on what he thought of the case at the time, which I find jarring considering he is commenting on it.
BT then proceeds to vote Raikaria in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg997919.html#msg997919) in part for doing exactly what he did himself.
I dunno, but to me, it reads as if BT is guilty of what he's arguing that Raikaria is doing; just trying to find something of substance to park an early vote on.
I'm not saying that I disagree with BT's logic, especially not with the clarification here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998059.html#msg998059), but I mean I just find BT's handling of the entire thing with Vhaltz to be really weird.
When coupled with his dismissal of his own case here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg998666.html#msg998666), I dunno. I just don't like it at all.
I mean, the entire reason for the dismissal of the case is something like "because I don't want to lynch him".
Of course, I have to look at BT's final significant post of D1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999301.html#msg999301) too.
In my opinion, it really doesn't contain much despite its length.
In particular, I don't like how certain people like Shadoweh are mentioned and prodded despite never really having talked about them before.
I mean he closes with:
In fact I think most of my reads are in the air at this point.
Which is all kinds of convenient for the next day.
Speaking of the next day, we have BT opening with a vote on Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999847.html#msg999847).
By itself, I don't think it's so bad, but there is virtually no follow up on Dan or any other of his suspicions.
Instead he just jumps to Raitaki (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000085.html#msg1000085) when Raitaki starts building up a wagon.
Now, before you talk about bussing and whatnot, I think that bussing in Raitaki's situation was actually quite likely.
Given that Raitaki self hammered and complained multiple times about access, as well as his self admission that he was playing poorly (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000962.html#msg1000962), I think it to be within reason that Raitaki may have asked his buddies to bus him early for cred which I think meshes well with BT's jump.
Also have I mentioned that I don't like this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000025.html#msg1000025)?
I mean, sure, it's great to have but what's the point if you're not going to analyze it? It seems more like a ploy to make yourself look useful to me if you post something like that without analysis.
At the end of the day, we have open ended suspicion once more from BT.
D3 comprises of ~vote bananas~.

##Unkill BT
##Kill Serious Bananas
I don't really know what I'm doing and this is L-1.

Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
dormio did you miss vhaltz's cop flip and his investigation crumbs
Actually if someone could post those for me I'd love that.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 09:55:16 AM
I reread and did some ISO's during the night/day/whatever in case I got to live and I think I got some nice stuff out of it. Affinity is even townier than before, BT went 180? into probstown avenue, Shadoweh is possibly not so scum and BBM was town but now everybody knows that.
BT

[blah blah blah] Pretty sure he's town now.


So from townier to less townier my townreads are like this now:
BT >> Shadoweh/ Affinity > Conq/Dan
dunno, still quite a weaker townread than BT/Conq/Dormio.

plus he never wavers on bt town the entire day
if im wrong and he actually copped BBM then ill be pissed because bbm looked pretty town with the serela mafia flip but i really dont think that's the case
if he misread his result pm because of the way town and mafia are flipped in this game that'd be hilarious but vhaltz probably quadruple checked it and plus he has the hydra

i mean i get where the suspicion on bt is coming from and the jump on raitaki pinged me as well but im willing to trust the vhaltz here
at least im pretty sure dormio is town now though!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 09:57:57 AM
 :fail:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 09:58:08 AM
It's more like VM has waffled on pretty much every player in the game at some point during D2. Except I stay as a solid townread despite paranoia on D1. Even Conq wasn't safe from this paranoia on D2 so it's really mystical that this happened.

Of course, I'm reading through their posts now and there's no mention of Validon anywhere, especially in a post where they seem to cover everyone but him. They go on about how one of his posts sounds like a huge towntell but that's only AFTER that big post about everyone. Makes more sense that they'd cop someone like me but I guess it could be Val too.

This really isn't an issue anyway.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 09:59:13 AM
does anyone with zakeri mod meta know if zak allows mafia to send in kills via qt though
because actually it looks like sb hasnt been online since before the lynch
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:01:40 AM
Mods do that?

Not let kills be sent via QT, I mean.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:04:42 AM
some mods are sticklers
zakeri doesnt seem like the type though, and in any case looks like the last game he modded was in 2011...so yeah i guess it doesnt mean much
although sb not logging in to check the flip does fit in more with scum who's basically given up?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 10:05:48 AM
Jeez we don't need to lynch before he claims, at most he'll get replaced by PX.
BT is prob-town anyways so  :V
Zakky-chan is a nice guy and doesn't afraid of anything, I bet if the townies asked he'd say QT's sure.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:06:30 AM
ebwop: although technically he doesnt have to log in to check the flip i guess

im just wondering when/if he'll actually show up in the thread  :V

cut: shadoweh replace in for him so we can lynch you
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:07:45 AM
There's to consider how he could be lurky whatever town as well.

But that one post of his on D2 looks more like a "gotta get a solid post in" post than a "whoops forgot about this game" post.

So I guess.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: SB on July 26, 2013, 10:09:53 AM
hello i am a mafia goon

so op

But yeah, everything I said about lynching Validon? Do it. ActionDan comes after that.

If you're calling me lurktown you should no I have absolutely no reason to check this site aside from mafia, so yeah.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: SB on July 26, 2013, 10:10:13 AM
lemme spit out a last minute reads post
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: SB on July 26, 2013, 10:11:12 AM
also someone should definitely try reading between the lines to work out vm's inno
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: SB on July 26, 2013, 10:14:30 AM
oh lol people did

but yeah timezones+maining different forums makes being active on here kind of difficult

Living:
1. ActionDan - Scummy
2. Validon98 - Scummy
3. Dormio - Null leaning scum
4. Shadoweh - idek
7. Conqueror - Townie
9. Affinity - Null
10. BT - Townie
12. Serious Bananas - the scummiest of scum

##Kill: Validon
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 10:16:41 AM
##Kill: Serious Bananas
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: SB on July 26, 2013, 10:17:11 AM
my shadoweh read was originally town, dunno what it is anymore

invert that and you have what I think of dormio

Affinity I have no idea on
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Validon98 on July 26, 2013, 10:19:19 AM
I know you explained your beef on Dan and I earlier, but you've barely said anything about Raitaki all game. Did you seriously have a townread on him? If so, why? Did you think lurking isn't good grounds for a vote, or something else?

Cut: Never mind I think Shadoweh just hammered.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 26, 2013, 10:27:02 AM
THIS SHIT IS BANANAS
B-A-N-A-N-A-S
A FEW TIMES I BEEN AROUND THAT TRACK
SO IT'S JUST GONNA HAPPEN JUST LIKE THAT
CAUSE I KNOW HOW TO SPELL BANANAS
I JUST REALLY DON'T LIKE BANANAS

Seriously they taste awful >:< Almost as awful as redirectors.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:29:49 AM
redirectors?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:31:21 AM
zzz where is px or someone i cant stand the suspense
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:36:32 AM
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

With 7 hours till mod arrival it takes 8 to stall.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:37:24 AM
E
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:37:49 AM
_ _ _ E _ _ _ _
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:38:32 AM
T S
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:39:13 AM
_ _ _ E _ _ _ _

help how do you draw these
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:40:18 AM
 :ohdear:

 :V

R
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:40:32 AM
R _ _ E _ _ _ _
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 10:42:19 AM
O L P A Y
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:43:41 AM
R O L E _ L O P

this isn't hard
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Validon98 on July 26, 2013, 10:47:53 AM
Roleclop?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:49:41 AM
no it's roleflop i mean yes

guess 7 hours are over, mod please
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Validon98 on July 26, 2013, 10:50:42 AM
Sorry if I stole that puzzle from you Conq. ^^;
And, uh, I don't think that's going to summon either mod, though. It'd be nice if it did, though. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Vhaltz on July 26, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
Let's go play IRC mafia AND a 2-month-long game at mafiascum while we wait for the flip
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:53:33 AM
compromise at 2-month-long irc mafia?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
motktown, where the dead don't give two damns
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Validon98 on July 26, 2013, 10:55:14 AM
I can't really play IRC Mafia at the moment. I'll have to go to breakfast and stuff in like 15 minutes. Perhaps another time. :V
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 26, 2013, 10:57:41 AM
The Friday Count
ActionDan:    Affinity (1)
Serious Bananas:      BT, Validon98, Conqueror, Dormio, Shadoweh (5)

BT:     Dormio (1)
Validon98:     Serious Bananas (1)

You all wake up to find Serious Bananas has been shot. The shot seems to have time altering powers as you all feel very sleepy for some reason.
Regardless, the autopsy has been performed with just as much efficiency as normal.
Quote from: Town Mafia Role P.M.
You are Serious Bananas, the Tough Nut.
You are a Mafia Goon. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You have 36 hours to send in err, day actions.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 11:08:01 AM
Don't you mean that we have 36 hours to frolic as any good townie would during the day?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 26, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Y-yes, of course.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Conqueror on July 26, 2013, 11:59:03 AM
can we reduce it to like 24 hours ish and have px start the day if he's around before you?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 26, 2013, 12:00:28 PM
The obvious solution is to reduce it to 12 hours. Then everyone wins, right?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: ActionDan on July 26, 2013, 01:36:59 PM
^ would not mind.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: PX on July 26, 2013, 05:52:59 PM
zzz where is px or someone i cant stand the suspense

Dude, 3 am? Really?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: ActionDan on July 26, 2013, 06:03:31 PM
Conq is now in the same time zone as Siberia.  probably.  (not that our sleep schedules weren't attuned to that before)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: BT on July 26, 2013, 06:18:25 PM
Conq is now in the same time zone as Siberia.  probably.  (not that our sleep schedules weren't attuned to that before)
I was wondering about this.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 26, 2013, 06:50:17 PM
if we start it too early, I'll either be at work or in bed during the phase changes.

if everyone gets it to me within the next 5-6 hours, I'll call the phase early. otherwise, well I'll think of something I guess.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on July 26, 2013, 10:23:17 PM
no it's roleflop i mean yes

guess 7 hours are over, mod please
damn i thought it was roleslop
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 27, 2013, 12:43:00 AM
The politically correct term is "Role Madness"
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Conqueror on July 27, 2013, 10:27:46 AM
Dude, 3 am? Really?
mods arent people, theyre forces of nature

also i transcend time zones
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: Conqueror on July 27, 2013, 10:28:46 AM
Let's go play IRC mafia AND a 2-month-long game at mafiascum while we wait for the flip
would not mind
anyone want to invade the entire playerlist for another micro?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Conqueror on July 27, 2013, 10:48:14 AM
actually now that im looking back at the game all my maizono faces got scrubbed because LOLIMAGEHOST
that totally kills my buzz
anyone know a good image hosting site that doesnt delete images for inactivity or have a dumb file number limit?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 27, 2013, 10:58:41 AM
Conqueror Has been Lynched
Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are Raikaria, The Ruminator. Conqueror The Guy Who is Known for Capturing a Bunch of land During Recent Wars (we should come up with a better title).
You are a Mafia Goon. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.

With Six left alive, you need four votes to lynch.
72 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on July 27, 2013, 11:11:15 AM
actually now that im looking back at the game all my maizono faces got scrubbed because LOLIMAGEHOST
that totally kills my buzz
anyone know a good image hosting site that doesnt delete images for inactivity or have a dumb file number limit?
use majhost, it's like photobucket but not a shitty relic (just an ordinary relic). there might be some caps and limitations though, it's been a while since i bothered with it
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 11:23:33 AM
"HAHA I CAUGHT THAT LYING TOWNIE WE WIN! HE'S A BUS DRIVER!"
"Isn't it possible that you got redirected by the bus driver yourself?"
"...FUCK"

So fucking ballsacks. I haven't reread because I THOUGHT THIS GAME WAS OVER and now I have to actually see what's going on.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 11:26:01 AM
I think it's Val.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 11:29:30 AM
Incidentally I clopped BT on Day 1 but since THE BUS DRIVER CAN TARGET THEMSELVES AND PROBABLY HAS BEEN SINCE DAY 1 THIS DOESN'T MATTER
Also I'm starting to suspect Zakeri is the one sending me nice things. :> This one is really cute though.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 11:30:04 AM
What are you talking about.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 11:32:39 AM
Apparently someone has been sending her nice things. If it's anything like the last game, it may be a hate thing, but I'm not sure. She's being targeting by something, in other words, though what it is is uncertain.
As for stuff that is happening here, I am not sure. ActionDan is the only other person who has been lurking, and he hasn't said a whole lot (he as literally only posted twice on Night 3, and even then neither of those posts had content). So I'm strongly leaning on him for lurking HARD.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 11:33:10 AM
Kill: ActionDan

Should probably actually vote when I voice my suspicions. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Also Shadoweh, what do you mean by Bus Drivers? Have you found one?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 11:34:54 AM
I'm pretty sure what I'm saying is obvious if you think about it.

All I know is we need to kill the right person tonight before Dormio gets auto-killed tomorrow.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 11:39:40 AM
I'm an idiot. Spell it out for me.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 11:43:55 AM
@Shadoweh: You mean BT...? And wait, Dormio's getting autokilled? As in the normal scumkill, or something else? Of course, you're probably not going to tell us just like you hid the whole "my role actually has no power and I am making you THINK it has one and thus I'm shutting up."
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 11:44:21 AM
I'm referring to last game with that, obviously.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
Rereading votecounts both Raitaki and Serela were early on my wagon. >_> Very funny guys. No wonder Conq was asking me if this was like BGoM (sort of! But not in that way.) Day 1 analysis: Still don't feel like Dan and Validon enabled the wagon on Serela instead of hopping on me/Vali, though Vali himself had less choice.. It would be... unusual for the entire scumteam to be on me, with both Dormio and Affinity being the kind of people who enjoy killing their friends. Looking at Night 2 wagons now.

Validon: Unlikely. Dan spent most of Day 1 wanting to switch the wagon to Raitaki. Want to lynch my scumbuddy or... my other scumbuddy! Probably not A Bad Person himself.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 11:50:26 AM
The souveniers I'm being lovingly sent have nothing to do with my role that I know of. They are simply a perk!
Tomorrow will be Day 5 is what I'm saying. You're too young in mafia to understand.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 11:54:41 AM
What, are you talking about a meta thing or something in regards to Day 5? Gah, I no understand your meta ways. ;~;
And... yeah, I noticed the thing with Dan wanting to kill Raitaki early too. I thought perhaps he was just trying to vote Raitaki to throw suspicion off of himself, but, well, I guess we can't be entirely sure of that. Hmm. Not sure who else to go with on this one. There's only four other suspects and I've been trusting them until now. >_<
#Unkill
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 11:55:06 AM
More on Dan: Raitaki was far from the projected D2 lynch so for him to highlight him right as the day started (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999843.html#msg999843) is really too much.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Conqueror on July 27, 2013, 11:56:07 AM
(http://puu.sh/3MWuE.png) Why...can't I stop the bleeding? I haven't even met, my green-clad archrival...yet...
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 12:01:36 PM
True... gah, people are going back and forth on Dan and either way saying he is or he isn't scum. I've been thinking he was because of his lurkiness, Shadoweh doesn't think he is because of him wagoning Raitaki early, but I jumped to conclusions after reading Shadoweh's post because I'm tired and my mind is deciding to be fickle on me instead of being focused. Cut it out, self.
If we're this unsure, why not ask for a claim? It's dumb, it's stupid, and he's not close to being lynched at all, but he is one of the top suspects so it can't hurt, right?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 12:06:53 PM
He's not a suspect at all. He shouldn't be suspected by anyone, is what I'm saying. I don't just randomly ask for claims often
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:26:39 PM
...I was saying he shouldn't be lynched. <_<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 12:28:54 PM
Conq told me I should scumhunt some more so I'll keep rereading. Night 2: Dormio is pretty early on the Raitaki wagon, like the minute after he posted on it. He had a hate-on for Dan going and probably could have jumped on that pretty easy, so more points for him.
i think if killing raitaki and sb doesn't end the game validon might be a decent option. im reading everyone else as town.
:D

Vali you should probably tell us some more about who you think is scummy and why. HE'S LURKING isn't actually something that makes someone scummy so don't use reasons like that. We have two scum flips to crosscheck with.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 12:30:57 PM
Oh. I thought when you said this:
More on Dan: Raitaki was far from the projected D2 lynch so for him to highlight him right as the day started (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999843.html#msg999843) is really too much.
You meant that that makes him suspicious. Ugh, I'm misunderstanding everything today. >_>;

Cut: Shadoweh, I'm sorry but you're going to have to wait until later. I have to go for a few hours. When I comeback I'll doing some reading. Of course by that time everyone's going to turbolynch me and find out that, whoops, I'm just a Mafia Goon who's just been playing badly again. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:34:45 PM
n_n
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:35:25 PM
My urge to make sure this decision is a good one is fading fast. Too bad I'll do it anyway.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:39:24 PM
Shadoweh:

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:42:01 PM
@BT: You sure we should do this? I mean, I'm worried that someone might hammer him before he gets back to us with a claim, but seeing as it adds more pressure it's a risk we're going to have to take.

##Unkill
##Kill: Raitaki


No one hammer before Raitaki responds!
ummmm

I'm actually not sure what to think about this.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:47:35 PM
I haven't read too much into Raitaki because of his lack of posts so I'm not entirely convinced. I'll have to do that later.

"later":

ttitude kind of angered me a bit, but I haven't really seen anything from his overall posts that makes me feel like he's scum.
My mind since my last post on who's scum is still the same: SB and Raitaki.

???
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:50:56 PM
This is townnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Just look at that, he actually thinks that Condition Fulfilling Upgrading Mafia Boss is a common role that could be in this setup and that Dormio is fulfilling conditions by talking about Steam forever. It makes no senseeeeeeeeee. 100% paranoia. Town paranoia. Not lynching Validon.
(I don't agree with this - could have very well come from inexperienced <insert allegiance here>)

The response:
Also, sorry about the Condition Fulfilling Upgrading Mafia Boss thing. It just seemed so similar I couldn't help but think back to I Wanna Be the Sereliest. >_>;

This is weird if from scum.

I don't know right now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 12:53:05 PM
Yes I'm aware, my main concern there is you  BT actually. You were pretty quick to escalate the Raitaki wagon though. I supose I could get behind lynching Validon first. Actually rereading I want to ask, why did it take you so long to comment on Raitaki's claim, Validon? You were uh, too busy asking me WHAT'S YOUR OPINION to comment on it until he got subtly counterclaimed by half the game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 12:55:12 PM
Cut: Shadoweh, I'm sorry but you're going to have to wait until later. I have to go for a few hours. When I comeback I'll doing some reading. Of course by that time everyone's going to turbolynch me and find out that, whoops, I'm just a Mafia Goon who's just been playing badly again. >_>;

But this is so icky.

As is most of his vote explanations that sound forced.

(cut)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 01:03:18 PM
You were uh, too busy asking me WHAT'S YOUR OPINION to comment on it until he got subtly counterclaimed by half the game.
Weren't these two posts apart?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 01:06:23 PM
I mean that Raitaki claimed, then Validon posted a few times about me, then he posted about me again and added a 'oh yeah his claim sucks because he's lurking I guess' onto the end of it.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 01:11:45 PM
Seriously what kind of mod gives the townies a Miller and a Bus Driver that can target itself, it's like daring the info roles to kill themselves.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 03:28:57 PM
Will ##Kill: ActionDan for now.  Details later.

Hi Affinity.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 03:30:23 PM
Shadoweh is the stuff that you're getting useful in anyway? A yes/no answer suffices.  Also I still have no idea what you're going on about with busdrivers/redirectors etc.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 03:34:38 PM
There is one. And since when have I ever been straight about anything? But I don't know.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 04:10:29 PM
let me logic.

I don't know how you have deduced that there is a scum power that redirects but:

if busdriver, why haven't they redirected the goodies that seem to come your way unto themselves?

=> they are probably the kind of redirector that targets someone and changes any action they take unto a target of their choice.

I.e.  Scum redirector targets person A.  redirects all actions A takes unto person B. 

Does this help in anyway? (Also I was quite serious when I asked if your um..gifts? actually did anything)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 04:20:40 PM
Maybe they like their goodies better. I used the power of looking carefully over Zakeri's modding records and finding his hidden mafia setup. (In all seriousness they don't say if they do anything and the last one makes me suspect their source if they're not random.)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:03:33 PM
May I see what your research uncovered?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:21:32 PM
So you're using mod meta to deduce this? Ugh, that's no way for anyone to figure out which roles are in play. There's no evidence of a bus driver that I've seen, nor have I seen evidence of a miller.
Anyways, you asked about the delay between Raitaki's claim and my reaction? To be honest, I don't remember if it was because I had IRL stuff I was dealing with at the time and I was still kind of in "I don't even know what to think of you" mode. In fact now with your research I've reentered that mode, because seriously? That's kind of, I don't know, something I don't trust. As for my read, that comment about him being lurky WAS my read. Didn't you notice I used exact numbers? I went and I read him and I noted he posted only so many times, hence my comment on his lurkiness. So even if I didn't say it was a read, it was a read, whether or not you believe it.
After a quick look back at Dormio (I haven't entirely reread, but there's a few things that I've noticed), I'm not sure he's town.

But, you know, I think I'll humor you and do an opinion post on the people you've listed.

Validon: I think he's town but I'm not reading a single word he's saying.
BT: Will mention later.
SB: Probably town so I don't care about him.
Conq: Conq is mai waifu cannot lynch.
BBM: Don't care about this guy.
Serela: Well he's dead now.
Affinity: Don't know. Might read later.
Myself: Probably town and ignoring for the most part as a result.

What is this I don't even. It does have townreads and such on it, but saying stuff like how he isn't reading a thing I'm saying or how he'll mention BT later and then says very little about how he reads "weird." That's it for that. Also this:

At the end of the day, we have open ended suspicion once more from BT.
D3 comprises of ~vote bananas~.

##Unkill BT
##Kill Serious Bananas
I don't really know what I'm doing and this is L-1.

It was bad enough he was bashing on BT (who I believe is town partially because he hasn't given me reason to suspect otherwise and partially because of the whole "VM probably copped him and that's why he had a strong townread on BT" thing), he then goes and just sheeps the big wagon just like that. That's really suspicious.
I still need to reread Affinity and ActionDan (again). I trust BT and I kind of trust Shadoweh even though she's playing Obfuscation again. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:30:28 PM
Ugh, reading Affinity is sort of a null thing. Not sure what to think of him, although this post raises eyebrows:

Maybe Validon mixed up Raitiki and Serela.  Oh well.

Actually, I'm a bit not sure if SB is the remaining scum.  If he was, I would expect him to be more buddy-conscious and actually defend him or at least acknowledge him when almost everyone else was doing so.  Then again, Serela and Raitiki have been playing suicidally so I don't know.

Will ##Kill: ActionDan for now.  Details later.

So, uh, where's your details? Granted, I'm not entirely trusting of Dan right now, but still, if you're going to point fingers you might as well back it up with details. If you couldn't because of a IRL thing, fine, I understand, but if it wasn't you have explaining to do. Serious. Explaining. Other than that, though I haven't seen anything else that has really caught my eye from him. Currently reading null because I know he's pushed Raitaki but that one post makes me go "wait what."
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 05:34:00 PM
"I haven't seen evidence of a miller" I wonder if it's possible to fake being that oblivious. Anyways this cake is great it's so delicious and moist. I might talk more later.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:41:11 PM
Aaaaaaaaaand taking another look at ActionDan makes me go from reading him scum to reading him null. I still don't think he's town and I've somewhat only glanced through his (incredibly short) posts. His lack of really adding more information to the conversation bugs me a lot, but he had some amount of activity N1 so I'm going to drop the lurking reason. I guess he's just like this. ^^;

##Unkill

With that said, that means that I don't think it's him as much anymore. BT I trust. Shadoweh... I'm kind of iffy on if only because she's confusing as always and that's really no reason to brand her as either town or scum. Some of Dormio's stuff bugs me. Affinity is null in my eyes but I'm not entirely sure. So with that, my vote goes from ActionDan to...

##Vote: Dormio

inb4 Everyone jumps on me for voting Dormio. >_>;

Cut: I don't even know what you're saying anymore, Shadoweh. How can you say I am faking being oblivious of a role that doesn't even get revealed until after the end of the game? Remember, when Millers die, they show up as Villager. No one should know besides the mod if there is a miller or not. Speak sense, damnit!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
Validon have you seen evidence of a godfather?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:43:08 PM
You mean someone who shows up as town no matter what? Not particularly... unless you're implying BT is one.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 05:44:11 PM
Even if you're basing this on Epicmafia rules that aren't true elsewhere, I'm still perfectly justified to make fun of you. You should read the OP to figure out why.
Cut: :V:V:V:V:V:V:V
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:44:49 PM
...OH. I GET IT NOW. Ahahahahahaha... why didn't I see it before. Good one, Shadoweh. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
I really don't think that can be faked shadoweh.

But the set is 2 group scum, 1 traitor.   And if scum, Validon is group scum so maybe he wasn't paying enough attention to the traitor flip
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:47:19 PM
But the set is 2 group scum, 1 traitor.   And if scum, Validon is group scum so maybe he wasn't paying enough attention to the traitor flip

Where are you getting "2 Group Scum, 1 Traitor" from?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
See!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:49:06 PM
...See what? You're saying there's a traitor? I don't even know how you could know this unless the mod told you. ???
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:50:10 PM
I am precisely saying there is a traitor.

And that the mod told me
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:51:40 PM
Okay, I can't tell if you're lying to get my goat or you're being serious. It's like you and Shadoweh are having some sort of private conversation and are saying things only you two get. I'M SO CONFUSEEEEEEEED! ;~;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:52:23 PM
Are you really confused? why are you confused if you are?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:54:08 PM
Because I don't even know why you're saying there is a traitor! I honestly have no clue if there is one or not, and the way it sounds you're saying there is one. Yet I haven't seen evidence of one. But that doesn't mean I can disprove it exists. Damnit, Devil's Proof!
Okay maybe I should take a break from Umineko.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:54:44 PM
did the mod not tell you that at the start of the game their were two group scum and one traitor that's aligned with them but doesn't know who they are?  You see that was open knowledge.  And you are saying you don't know that?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:55:18 PM
^ answer honestly please.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 05:56:15 PM
you have 1 minute for a response. tick tock
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:56:43 PM
did the mod not tell you that at the start of the game their were two group scum and one traitor that's aligned with them but doesn't know who they are?  You see that was open knowledge.  And you are saying you don't know that?

Wait, where did he say that? Honestly, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm looking at the OP and I don't see anything. I'm seriously utterly confused and I want answers, damnit! Explain to me what the fuck you're talking about!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:57:29 PM
Is it the Town Miller thing with Raitaki? Wasn't that revealed later or something else? I don't have a clue! I don't have a single fucking clue!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:59:07 PM
...I seriously think I did not read Raitaki's flip beyond that he was a Miller.
...Wow, I'm dumb. I seriously missed that. I am so blind. *headdesks over and over again*
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 05:59:38 PM
...I seriously think I did not read Raitaki's flip beyond that he was Town.
...Wow, I'm dumb. I seriously missed that. I am so blind. *headdesks over and over again*

Correcting my post with bold.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 06:02:26 PM
good enough.  You're more confirmed than BT unless you do acting regularly. 

Sorry I antagonized you, but it was important that the rest of everybody (including the one scum left among them) recognize that you were irrevocably town.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 06:03:31 PM
and yes have you detected the piece of evidence that makes raitaki a traitor unlike serela?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 06:04:04 PM
Both the current flips don't say anything regarding traitorism. If there is one then they'd have to be the remaining townie. They'd also be stolen from Zombie Apocalypse, making Zakeri even more of a terrible person.
Cut: >_> I was going to post this earlier but then I realized you were messing with Validon so I waited until you admitted it. I thought Miller was a pretty clever way to put in a godfather.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 27, 2013, 06:06:41 PM
No problem. Thanks for indirectly pointing out that, yes, there was a miller and I'm just a fucking oblivious idiot. Also of course, IRL calls. God fucking damn it. I'll be back ASAP. I'm sorry, I don't control this schedule. It gets in the way so much and it makes me look like I'm attempting to lurk when I'm not. >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 06:07:55 PM
...
Holy shit you're right. I wouldn't have even noticed that. I guess it explainsish why the regular townies are a little more powerful.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 06:09:18 PM
Both the current flips don't say anything regarding traitorism. If there is one then they'd have to be the remaining townie. They'd also be stolen from Zombie Apocalypse, making Zakeri even more of a terrible person.
Cut: >_> I was going to post this earlier but then I realized you were messing with Validon so I waited until you admitted it. I thought Miller was a pretty clever way to put in a godfather.

you realize raitaki was the traitor right. lol.... Did you too not get it?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 06:10:37 PM
I didn't read past Miller <_< It's a pretty explanitory role!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 06:10:53 PM
I mean I figured it out once Serela flipped Mason honestly.  In fact I predicted it from this setup being 12 people only
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 27, 2013, 06:17:00 PM
Yes but that really doesn't make sense unless I've been terribly trolled.
Which is why I'm having some delicious cakey.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 06:17:48 PM
Well I'm glad we've collected 2 townslips today.

And since BT is like Vhaltz's cop target that leaves... let's see 6 - 2 - 1 - myself = that's... oh right 2.

So Dormio and Affinity.  Maybe you guys should cross vote.  That's a fun past time.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 06:36:05 PM
(the mason part is obvious because Raitaki's PM doesn't mention control over the town lynch)

(though I'm stupid and forgot about this when messing with connections earlier)

(<_<)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 06:36:45 PM
(it's possible that I'm not the only idiot and that messing with connections is a town(scum)tell)

(())
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 27, 2013, 06:37:18 PM
the traitor* part, not the mason part, whatever
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on July 27, 2013, 06:52:19 PM
Raitaki's D2 is amusing to me. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999915.html#msg999915) in particular is hilarious for reasons undisclosed.
Tempted to vote.

Would like a continued answer to this dormio
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 28, 2013, 12:05:12 AM
Woah, the day started?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 28, 2013, 12:07:40 AM
So, I'm confused by all this talk of bus drivers and traitors flying around, can someone explain to me why this talk started?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 28, 2013, 12:11:43 AM
The bus driver is because I said so.
The traitor is for the reason BT said a bit before your post. Raitaki doesn't have control over the town lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 28, 2013, 12:32:50 AM
KillCount
ActionDan:    Validon98
Dormio:       Validon98 (1)

you have, like, a whole bunch of time (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378) left or something.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 28, 2013, 12:44:32 AM
regarding current information that seems to be passing around recent posts, it appears that mod intervention has been called into requirement.
Post Number 424 has been edited to reflect the truth.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Affinity on July 28, 2013, 01:22:05 AM
Why did Day 3 end so early with a hammer?  Wasn't there an unspoken rule to drag days so more content could be given or something?

I think everyone seems to have something for them.  Shadoweh has been voted by both flipped scum, supposedly has something, and had that drop of Validon on D1 which I liked.  ActionDan was trying to get Raitiki D1 and D2.  Validon has had a charming and innocent persona all game and is pretty much too cute and sheepy to be scum, and he's been improving a lot today.  Dormio made a good case on BT for D3.  BT cleared people for good reasons throughout the game and was.. .clear and unambiguous.  He's not stuck unto the Validon thing I disliked D1 until now, and handled D2 well.

Anyway this is tough, I strongly think Raitiki was being bussed as Dormio says.  I don't think Raitiki even gave anyone a reason to get off him at all, and he had no true competitor to his lynch, so D2 votecounts don't seem too useful.  I thought ActionDan was questionable due to his somewhat lacking content out of everyone yesterday, but now I'm not so sure given his townie pressing of Val.  Things raised against Val by BT also seem to be merely nitpicking tbh.  So I don't know.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Affinity on July 28, 2013, 01:43:09 AM
... Also I believe that Serela should have at least one busser.  Raitaki also mentioned Dan as a null lurker, and I think scum like to put their fellow buddies as their side scumspects so that there would be less connections.  But then again he questioned me and found me scummy without replying to my return questions so I don't know.

##Kill: BT

Will go with BT.  Didn't like his D1 for his focus on Validon, his D2 was solid with a Raitaki vote, references to everyone, questioning Vhaltz on his Dormio case, SB, etc.  But I find it strange that he would find Vhaltz's Dormio vote as good stuff (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg1000227.html#msg1000227), without having an eventual original opinion on him from what I see.  D3 he goes for SB, D4 he goes for Val, all rather easy decisions to make.  Don't think he even addressed Dormio's BT vote (my case is much of his without the nit-picking).  Overall, although I can't argue with his good content, his play seems a bit one-dimensional from what I see.

As a side note I don't buy that Vhaltz cop crumbed BT.  I think his reads are really swingy in general and can change based on the most minute of details (his Dormio case on D2 shows this).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 28, 2013, 02:20:15 AM
Hahaha the change is The Town Lynch in capitals because it's Important.

Okay, so clearly this asshole isn't going to claim. Raitaki claimed in the funniest way (probably intentionally) where he was ambiguously counter-claiming all the PR's possible. I asked him if he was purposely sounding like he claimed Rolecop because I AM THE ROLECOP NOT YOU (you have no idea how much patience it took not to just quickhammer him). Yesterday since he was Mr. Suspicious I thought it'd be a fun idea to Rolecop Serious Bananas, and he came back holding a label gun that works like a Bus Driver. So when he claimed Mafia Goon I was like FUCK YEAH BYE. (incidentally if they don't have a role I get that they don't have any special abilities. Stupid Masons!) Then I played the sad trombone music.

So basically I hate everything. Especially having a PR that can't find anything because bus drivers sux. Considering he was the obv investigation target and mafia were p sure there was a cop alive, I consider driving between SB and himself to be a pretty scummy action.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 28, 2013, 03:16:07 AM
So does this mean that we can lynch BT or something?
Everything is just going way over my head right now.

##Kill BT
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 28, 2013, 03:28:23 AM
Why would we lynch BT? Aren't you and Affinity cross-voting so you both die? I was pretty cool with that one.
Dormio who do you think is scum?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 28, 2013, 03:30:53 AM
I mean if it's not Dan or you then I'm guessing that it would have to be either Affinity or BT and I think it's more likely to be BT so yeah.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 28, 2013, 10:49:09 AM
Affinity you had me saying "are you high" out loud when you vouched for Dormio's case. Not only is it Not Good but you gave no other reason to never consider Dormio again.

Of course my play would seem incomplete and one-dimentional if I'd lost motivation to play halfway through the game. I didn't reply to Dormio because I pretty much expected a case like that to pop up and I didn't feel it was needed because, you know, the game was ending? And the crumb is probably true for the reason you brought up yourself - his opinions were really swingy. In fact, he waffled on pretty much every single one of his reads on D2 except for Val and myself, when he was paranoid about me on D1 and people were saying Val would become readable later. Not Hard To Guess.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 28, 2013, 11:02:19 AM
KillCount
Dormio:       Validon98 (1)
BT:       Affinity, Dormio (2)

With Six alive, it takes four votes to lynch.
48 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378) left.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 28, 2013, 01:14:34 PM
I'll have to read later.

The fact Raitaki wasn't actually a traitor... is a huge town-tell for me in about every possible way so.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 28, 2013, 02:40:20 PM
Btw a few things that we should settle now.

1) Validon is town. <---- I'd like everyone to unconditionally agree to that immediately
2) In light of Shadoweh's claim that there is a scum busdriver, and in light of Shadoweh's claim that she's getting things, if there is someone who is sending things (and if it's not the mod), then they can't be the busdriver soooo they're confirmed as town.

I don't want a repeat of who wants to be the towniest mafia where Dormio was lynched D6 even though I begged everyone to accept him as town.  Also that game featured people who weren't good at realizing how roles worked.

Not this game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 28, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
No posts? Why doesn't everyone else at least say who they think is the scum?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: PX on July 28, 2013, 11:00:55 PM
KillCount
Dormio:       Validon98 (1)
BT:       Affinity, Dormio (2)

With Six alive, it takes four votes to lynch.
36 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378) left.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 28, 2013, 11:33:27 PM
No posts? Why doesn't everyone else at least say who they think is the scum?

Answer my post above.  That is my first priority from everyone
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 29, 2013, 01:38:06 AM
If you insist I will agree not to lynch Validon until I change my mind again.
I'm feeling kinda sick and just woke up so I'll :words: when I get home. I agree on your second hypothesis.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Affinity on July 29, 2013, 08:22:10 AM
I agree with Dan's propositions.

Okay I can see the 'crumb' a bit better, but bleh.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 29, 2013, 11:05:19 AM
24 Hours Left.
If you want the countdown it's only four posts up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 29, 2013, 04:40:10 PM
>_> I'll agree to this.

##Vote Affinity

Dormio is the less pretty second option. Putting my trust in VM & Conq.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 29, 2013, 11:46:46 PM
Why doesn't everyone else at least say who they think is the scum?
Shadoweh? Dan?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 30, 2013, 01:16:06 AM
KillCount
Dormio:       Validon98 (1)
BT:       Affinity, Dormio (2)
Affiinity:    BT (1)

With Six alive, it takes four votes to lynch.
10 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378) left.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 30, 2013, 01:23:40 AM
I think affinity is scum after a reread.

But Dormio/BT are still candidates cop not withstanding imo.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: ActionDan on July 30, 2013, 02:20:11 AM
I won't be here for deadline.

Ya I didn't actually reread much of Dormio, just everyone else.

So

##Vote: Affinity

If I am wrong sorry.  Just affinity you were a bit tangential imo.  I thought your words were ok.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 03:36:10 AM
I've been rereading everyone on and off. It's kind of hard to tell to be honest. If it's Affinity it would mean all-townies swamped SB, which I supose is likely and reminiscent of ABGoM.. I dunno I think it would be super weird for him to have missed the scum wagon. It would also mean we literally had the most inactive scum team in the history of ever. Would Zakeri start the game without all the scum confirming present, you think?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 04:03:46 AM
I've been inactive because I really don't know what to add to any of this.
I'm going to probably miss the deadline as well, and, err, I get Shadoweh's point. Why would Zakeri start the game if one person hadn't confirmed? Of course, I'm not saying that makes Affinity innocent, but that's a fair point. I'm still leaning towards Dormio, though. We can still lynch Dormio the next day, right?
...In which case screw it. We can't afford a no lynch at this point, so I'm just switching my vote even though I'm still leaning more towards Dormio as scum.

##Unkill
##Kill: Affinity
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 04:17:35 AM
<_<
Validon, do you think BT is scummy? Why Affinity over him when they're both at two votes? You don't have a reason to find Affinity guilty in that post.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 04:52:01 AM
I don't think BT is scummy. Then again, I'd have to reread BT and at this point I'm tired. I'll give it a shot though. Give me a few minutes and I'll come back with something. Maybe. If I don't pass out. >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 04:57:40 AM
While I'm doing this, who do you think is scummy, Shadoweh? Same with Dormio, you two have been quiet on the whole matter so far and we're down to the wire in a few hours.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 05:10:49 AM
To be honest, I've been kind of ignoring BT somewhat. Rereading is making me change my mind on that and it just makes my head hurt more.

Okay, first thing I've noticed that I don't like:

Shadoweh:

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

So he's automatically assuming that Dan, himself, Dormio, and Shadoweh are town when none of them have flipped. I know it's partially because of his reads, but it feels ugh to me.

I don't want to use RVS reasons, but him jumping on Raikaria for jokingly using "gut" also was something that left a bad taste in my mouth earlier but I ended up forgetting about. Note that he was also the one to start that wagon. >_>;
Still reading, on page 10. >.<;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 05:15:40 AM
I'm noticing that Serela and Raitaki did not interact much with BT at all. Not sure whether it was they thought it was a waste of time or because they were trying not to get in BT's way or anything. That's making me feel urrrrgh more and more. Still reading, though. Trying not to pass out at the same time. >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 30, 2013, 05:23:05 AM
Same with Dormio, you two have been quiet on the whole matter so far
wat?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 05:25:11 AM
##Unkill

Affinity is looking less scummy to me. My attention is more focused on BT and Dormio now. This is just making me feel so ugggghhh right now, doing this.

Also, when I put Raitaki at L-1 before, BT said this:

I assume we're all mature enough to understand the consequences of hammering without a claim.

And then today his reaction to rereading it was this:

ummmm

I'm actually not sure what to think about this.

Kind of weird when he was the one asking for someone to place the L-1. In fact, him asking for someone to place the L-1 is weird. Raitaki was scum, though, so I don't know.

Cut: You mentioned Shadoweh and Dan... and that's it. Your lack of effort rubs me the wrong way, Dormio, even if supposedly it's part of your meta anyway. This is the wrong time of night for me to be doing this. >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 05:34:43 AM
Oh wait I read that wrong nevermind, Dormio.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Validon98 on July 30, 2013, 05:37:07 AM
You were asking Dan and Shadoweh who they thought is scummy. Shadoweh particularly. Speak up, please.

Still stuck between Dormio and BT. Dormio feels urgh still but rereading BT has made me see a lot of things I missed before. I'm trusting him less and less now. So here we go.

##Kill: BT

I REALLY NEED SLEEP NOW IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR ME THEY WILL GO UNANSWERED BEFORE THE FLIP UNLESS I HAPPEN TO GET UP SUPER EARLY SORRY. >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 05:41:59 AM
If I had a clear suspect I would have voted by now. It's just.. inconsistent if the entire scum team really was gunning for me Day 1. I supose it's possible Affinity didn't notice, or Dormio did it for the lulz.

Validon: BT's reaction to you putting Raitaki to L-1 and going 'uhm I don't know what to think about it' is because it looked like you put Raitaki to L-1 so he would claim. It does look kind of weird. I really wish you would stop being townie so we could lynch you. ;_;

ALL I ASKED IS WHY DID AFFINITY LOOK SCUMMY TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE GOD
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 07:09:44 AM
I don't know why I keep yelling at Validon even though I think he's town. I really want that early suspicion to be right I guess. Extensive rereading to mindlink with people makes me think Affinitown and DormioTown. I just can't get over dat D1 wagon, well that and Dormio's said some stuff that I thought was good and etc. Affinimu has been pretty cute this game too.  That sounds really terrible to be honest but I don't know how else to explain tone. I don't think I've seen Affinity ever give a direct defense of a scum buddy immediately before people want to lynch him and then not switch back over the minute that wagon appears, and even if the way he's making cases is a little odd I can see some of that :Dormio: attitude I've been missing in his earlier posts. I've been thinking BT is town via tone and effort, but he hopped on Serela way after his lynch was a definite thing. Conq told me to stop trying to lynch Affinity anyways.

Also last thing BBM did before dying is talk about how suspicious BT is. So unless someone gives me a super good reason, I plan to hammer him in less then 3 hours.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 07:12:57 AM
The only person I regret rereading is myself actually, my posts look so horrible this game. I thought I was trying harder. ;-;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: PX on July 30, 2013, 07:45:49 AM
KillCount
Affinity:       BT, ActionDan (2)
BT:       Affinity, Dormio, Validon98 (2)

With Six alive, it takes four votes to lynch.
little over 3 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378) left.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 07:49:19 AM
You could at least put the right number after the wagon, unless you're saying someone there isn't a person (Dormio)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 08:17:30 AM
Speaking of Dormio, you're probably the only other person awake. You got anything to say before we drop the ball?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:28:53 AM
You're not hammering.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:29:17 AM
To be honest I'm done giving myself as a lynch so "town can win anyway" when it's lost 2/2 town games so far.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:32:20 AM
I'm going to make sure I think Val's actions pre-modfix still read super townie because holy shit that was awful.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 08:33:41 AM
I have no confidence in 'winning anyways' if you're not The Bad Guy. If you're not the right choice convince me on which way is right.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:33:53 AM
Actually, we forgot about claims.

Mafia goon.

But Affinity and Dormio should claim. Or just Affinity.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:36:44 AM
My lynch priorities should be something like Affinity > Dormio > {the rest} at this point.

Affinity has nothing huge going for him (even Conq admitted as much when he explained his townread) and has been on town wagons all game. I know that this isn't typical Affinity and that scum being inactive is weird, but, well, consider that he wasn't subbed out for a while, and consider that I've already stated dislike of a few of his cases (even if they were on me!).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:38:00 AM
Dormio.. has nothing but others' opinion going for him as I've never been able to read him well.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:41:53 AM
I don't have much to say because I'm not going to :seriouslymafia: when I have to jet in 20 minutes. I'll be back in at least 6-7 hours too excluding awkward phoneposting.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 08:42:17 AM
I brought up a few things each of them have going for them. I don't think saying 'they don't' works to convince anyone they're worthy of lynching, if you can't name anything wrong with them. We also don't have 6 hours left in the day <.<;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:43:56 AM
I'm actually kind of curious why Affinity didn't care to unvote + rehash when he accepted that I had a point about the crumb. If he were honest about that it's irresponsible to leave his vote on me and allow possible lynches oh oops look where we're at.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:44:43 AM
Do I have less going for me than Affinity?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:46:26 AM
he hopped on Serela way after his lynch was a definite thing
More like I hopped on it the instance I read to that point. It was pretty much a mirror of C7D like I mentioned in that post.

Also last thing BBM did before dying is talk about how suspicious BT is.
I literally don't remember this was a thing so it was probably insignificant.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
I think I'll agree about Val though, especially since the recent switch was caused by you of all things and didn't look like it was on scum!val's agenda even though it should have been.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:49:09 AM
In the event that this is irreversible, just lynch Affinity and Dormio. Though you already know this.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 08:50:37 AM
I mean your reason for voting him is basically 'he's not Dormio and I trust VM/Conq'. The only reason they ever trusted you was because VM (probably) copped you, which is irrelevant from my perspective because cops aren't being told if they hit the right target. Before that everyone that has mentioned you had you as 'null'.

I find you not remembering it unlikely because you started Day 2 with a post worrying that people thought you were scummy. It was the last thing BBM said (just before I posted with a little freakout, admittedly embarrassingly oblivious to the situation)

Do I think Affinity has more going for him then you? Honestly yes, otherwise I wouldn't be saying I'd lynch you. I apologize if I'm wrong, but I do believe he sounds more honest, and you seem a little frustrated like you want to get this overwith, and I mean before I told you I was hammering you. I suspect some of that frustration might be having buddies competing with BGoM for Best Bros Evar.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:54:43 AM
I mean your reason for voting him is basically 'he's not Dormio and I trust VM/Conq'. The only reason they ever trusted you was because VM (probably) copped you, which is irrelevant from my perspective because cops aren't being told if they hit the right target. Before that everyone that has mentioned you had you as 'null'.
...And I still don't want to lynch Dormio over him because he had two flipped townies saying that they read him strongly as town. I don't see the problem here.

I find you not remembering it unlikely because you started Day 2 with a post worrying that people thought you were scummy. It was the last thing BBM said (just before I posted with a little freakout, admittedly embarrassingly oblivious to the situation)
Nope, that's because I remembered VM and Conq as "reps of the i-think-you're-scummy brigade", not BBM. So I really did forget about BBM and killing him off wouldn't stop the rest of the town from looking at me if I thought it was popular opinion.

Do I think Affinity has more going for him then you? Honestly yes, otherwise I wouldn't be saying I'd lynch you. I apologize if I'm wrong, but I do believe he sounds more honest, and you seem a little frustrated like you want to get this overwith, and I mean before I told you I was hammering you. I suspect some of that frustration might be having buddies competing with BGoM for Best Bros Evar.
The frustration is because this game is a dragging annoyance to me at this point. What can I say. But I'd think with my D2 entrance, the very likely clear and being sure there was a traitor too would be in my favor.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 08:56:19 AM
If I seem frustrated right now it's mostly because

1) I woke up
2) Micro 31

but c'est la vie.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: PX on July 30, 2013, 08:59:34 AM
KillCount
Affinity:       BT, ActionDan (2)
BT:       Affinity, Dormio, Validon98 (3)

With Six alive, it takes four votes to lynch.
2 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130730T06&p0=3378) left.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
But huh what isn't even in this game
unless you mean calling the scum team and being lynched for it, but unlike that game you don't have a clear idea of who you think the scum are. Today has been very bla (my fault included) but still.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 09:03:47 AM
To randomly cite my scum meta I think I would have prepared some sort of defense in case I was lynched. Not this sloppy bullshit. Lazytownies4us.

Two hours is too little. If no one wants to react in that timespan, go ahead.

cut: no I mean the idea of being randomly run up for no reason, eventually costing town the one extra lynch it needed

I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE CASE THIS GAME(tm) but guess what I thought back then.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 09:05:31 AM
I mean now you can't lynch all three of {Affinity Dormio Validon}, yes I can't get over this whatever.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 09:06:35 AM
Every wagon today can be argued to be lazily run up for no reason. I'm at least trying to make a case of it.
Cut how were we going to lynch all three of them before that? There's only six of us!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 09:08:49 AM
............

Dormio is online. Both of you can switch to Affinity.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 09:09:09 AM
Really now I'm just disappointed in how low my town game can go in this one.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 09:11:51 AM
In theory Dormio is on but he hasn't said anything <_< Dormio stop playing Dota!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 09:33:24 AM
I don't think he's going to stop playing Dota. You have 30 minutes because I don't trust myself to stay awake/remember I'm playing mafia longer then that. I think I've been giving myself caffiene headaches. I should stop that if I want to improve my reading comprehension.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 09:35:36 AM
No, I'm going *poof* right now so I can't help you.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 09:42:07 AM
I meant Dormio, I saw your timeframe. Thinking about whether this is a good idea after all is giving me another headache. I WANTED A ROLE THAT GAVE ME RESULTS, WHY DID THE RESULTS HAVE TO BE THAT I CAN'T TRUST ANYONE?!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 10:01:51 AM
Howah mark:

##Kill: BT
Honestly these last hours have killed my confidence. But my #1 mug says to press on!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: Shadoweh on July 30, 2013, 10:03:14 AM
[05:22] <Macaiah> Welp, I'm goin to sleep now
[05:22] <Macaiah> If a hammer happens, assume the game is over and STOP POSTING UNTIL THE MOD COMES IN
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: BT on July 30, 2013, 10:08:31 AM
Phoneposting from a really boring lecture if you need anything.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 30, 2013, 10:43:23 AM
You all wake up to find that BT has been shot.
Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are BT, The STAB Dragon.
You are a Mafia Goon. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.

You have 24 hours to send in any day actions you may have.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on July 31, 2013, 01:52:18 AM
Had to laugh out loud here. No regrets, everything went according to plan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14060.msg933916.html#msg933916) in that one.
this was a good game, especially the part where i won

also schezo's mod font looks really Kakkoii with his new avatar ^_^
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 31, 2013, 07:19:45 AM
Huh. It's day 5.
Goodbye, cruel world.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: PX on July 31, 2013, 07:35:50 AM
Hey Dormio. Day 5 called. He says your time's up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WHMZakeri on July 31, 2013, 11:04:07 AM
Shadoweh has been lynched!
Quote from: Town Role PM
You are Shadoweh, The Innocent Killer.
You are the Mafia Roleclop. Once per day you may select one person. You will then be given a short description of how their role works. Beyond that you have your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.

"Hey PX"
"What is it Zak?"
"How much longer do you think this is going to be?"
"I don't know"
"about .6 miles"
"Why is that?"

Because Mafia is now in Kilo
With four alive, it takes three kills to decide the NK.
you have 72 hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130803T06&p0=3378)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on July 31, 2013, 12:46:40 PM
man, if only I didn't have to choose between my two suspects of Affinity and Dormio. 

The fuck was everyone thinking lynching BT.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on July 31, 2013, 12:51:01 PM
anyway.  The trick here is to make it a 1v1 and hope to god the person sending shadoweh crap is alive at lylo.  So today is a no-lynch day. (perhaps it should have been yesterday, hard to say).

Still I don't think It does too much harm to talk today.  (I sure will, I'm probably gonna die brutally in the night since I'm the only sane one left)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Validon98 on July 31, 2013, 01:24:19 PM
I really don't know what to say other than "Well crap." I'd suggest a mass claim but if we are going to go for a no-lynch day maybe we shouldn't. It's up to everyone if they want to claim or not. If you don't want to, that's fine by me. We're not really going to get much done either way. >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on July 31, 2013, 02:13:01 PM
no claims.

DERP
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 31, 2013, 11:49:48 PM
I just want to play video games and go to sleep damn it.

@mod: Will the game end if there is a no-kill(lynch)?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Affinity on August 01, 2013, 12:10:13 AM
My motivation for this game is all but sapped.  Past few days I had wanted to off my mind for awhile.

Guess that BT thing I did is hm, but I thought the 'crumb' could have been merely a caprice on Vhaltz's part, though I can't explain why I thought so.  His replies to my case were okay but predictable, didn't really think about an alternative.

And well I still think Validon is town for a myriad of reasons (most of which Dan has mentioned) and sort of deserves to win if he is scum.  There's Dan and Dormio, and Dan has had the better Raitaki vote while Dormio's could be seen as jumpy. 

I am fine with a no lynch.

Hold on.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 01, 2013, 12:19:04 AM
@mod: Will the game end if there is a no-kill(lynch)?

I am not at liberty to answer this question.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Validon98 on August 01, 2013, 03:17:20 AM
Wait a minute... if he can't tell us that, then that means... there might be a third-party? In fact, I don't think we've considered the possibility all game. That means we're going to have to make a decision, aren't we?
From my previous reads, I still suspect Dormio the most. But I'm going to wait a moment, because I think we as a group should decide whether in light of Zakeri's refusal to tell us if we should still no-lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 01, 2013, 06:41:42 AM
Why the fuck would we no lynch?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 01, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Why the fuck would we no lynch?

cough.

Confirmed town role, vanilla town, vanilla town,  scum bus driver.

1/3 chance.

Confirmed town role, vanilla town, scum bus driver. 

1/2 chance.

do do do do do do do.
do do do do doot, do.do.do.do,
do do do do do do do,
doot do dooot dooot doot.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 01, 2013, 09:09:50 AM
I dunno. Zakeri's message sounds pretty ominous to me.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 01, 2013, 11:16:33 AM
47.75 Hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130803T06&p0=3378)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 01, 2013, 01:21:32 PM
I dunno. Zakeri's message sounds pretty ominous to me.

yes, because clearly in a game of 12 players, there are 4 anti-towns = 33% of game when generally it's something like 25%.

scum power = godfather, busdriver = strong.  town power = rolecop, cop, doc, functional fruit vender = strong to combat scum team.  not strong enough to combat 4 anti-town
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 01, 2013, 01:22:10 PM
There is no 3rd party.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 01, 2013, 10:59:26 PM
I guess not.
Question, has whoever the person sending Shadoweh random shit is claimed?
IIRC no, right?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Validon98 on August 01, 2013, 11:22:57 PM
@Dormio: No, no one has. Can whoever did it please claim, then? It's not me, in case you're wondering.
Also, I'm not going to really be able to access the internet tomorrow or the day after. I'll try to get on in case something comes up, but if we're just going to no lynch I guess it doesn't really matter because I'll be here for Night 6. Unless I get killed in that time. >_>
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 02, 2013, 12:08:30 AM
Also.
cough.
>Implying random lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 01:05:49 AM
@Dormio: No, no one has. Can whoever did it please claim, then? It's not me, in case you're wondering.
Also, I'm not going to really be able to access the internet tomorrow or the day after. I'll try to get on in case something comes up, but if we're just going to no lynch I guess it doesn't really matter because I'll be here for Night 6. Unless I get killed in that time. >_>

what are you stupid
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 01:14:07 AM
like that just makes me angry
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 01:14:56 AM
Also.>Implying random lynch.

>Implying it matters
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 02, 2013, 01:20:46 AM
At this point can't we just lynch Affinity and get it over and done with?
I mean, it's not like the outcome is going to be any different. It'll be either Affinity or myself up for lynch whether it's today or tomorrow.
On that note.
##Kill Affinity
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 02:01:22 AM
Well u know what fine.

I'm not the fruit sender.

Validon isn't either.

This makes the game just peachy.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 02:06:20 AM
I'm expecting counterclaims, hopefully they'll be out by the time I finish Dotars.  Then I'll probably reread the game again (aka read only Dormio/Affinity)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 02, 2013, 02:14:33 AM
You're not?
I'm not either.
Does that mean that Affinity can't be scum?
Unless the fruit sender actually redirects actions by sending fruit.
I dunno.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 02, 2013, 02:29:48 AM
That doesn't make sense though.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 02:59:08 AM
ya fuck it

##Vote Affinity

I am the vender.

Validon hammer if you are scum ty
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 04:34:03 AM
parallel game to aBGoM.

scum always gets lynched in the end
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: PX on August 02, 2013, 04:41:01 AM
Killcount

Affinity :                 Dormio, ActionDan(2)

With 4, it takes 3
Deadline is in 30.333333333333~ (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130803T06&p0=3378)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Affinity on August 02, 2013, 04:01:23 PM
Wait, why
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Affinity on August 02, 2013, 04:10:21 PM
... huh

##Kill: Dormio

Really liked his play the first three days though, but.  If I had to raise anything it would be his typical Raitiki vote plus token case.  Not something I could fault under normal circumstances, but whatever.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 02, 2013, 05:25:47 PM
ITT I wait for Validon to either post without voting or hammer sparing me from rereading.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 01:53:05 AM
9 hours till deadline.

well I'm not reading this game until after dota. 

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 01:54:52 AM
no-lynch isn't the end of the world I guess.

I mean I'll just tell Validon to vote affinity.

I mean that might work.

Probably 50-50 chance
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 02:03:05 AM
The thing is I don't believe Affinity is scum. I think it's Dormio. >_>;

##Kill: Dormio

You thought that if I was scum I'd just quickhammer Affinity like that? No way. Between the two I trust Affinity a little more. Of course you'll probably be pissed at me, but I feel like I'm making the right choice. If you don't think so then whatever. I don't feel like rereading anymore and this is one of the few times I'm going to be able to have access to the internet for a little bit. I might be able to check again in the morning but I won't for sure be able to check until tomorrow evening. College visits mean little time for Mafia. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 02:38:29 AM
There you go.  Validon is now confirmed town.

And I am confirmed town.

That's a start.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 02:42:17 AM
maybe you're right.

Of course it takes 3 to lynch.

Now Dormio did a thing wherein he didn't claim fruit vender.  Both of us had claimed we were not it.  Therefore logically Dormio deduced that it would have to be affinity.

Yet he didn't counterclaim.

Scum would have been forced to do so.  Dormio didn't.  Therefore he's town
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 03:31:26 AM
So how long is this going to drag for?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 03:34:40 AM
So how long is this going to drag for?

I could always vote you
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: PX on August 03, 2013, 03:51:26 AM
7 hours left
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 03:53:08 AM
I could always vote you
And lose. :D
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 03:59:55 AM
Affinity can't you just vote yourself and get it over and done with? o/
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 04:43:40 AM
man o man 6 hours until I die. 

I guess I really should do something
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Affinity on August 03, 2013, 05:47:23 AM
Quote
Scum would have been forced to do so.  Dormio didn't.  Therefore he's town

Eh why is this so?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 05:54:32 AM
I'm guessing because, assuming that Dan was telling the truth, the fruit vendor would have had to have been either you or myself and if I were scum then I would have had to have tried to force the 1v1 claim war against you since you claiming the fruit vendor would have basically secured my lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 2)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
Raitaki's D2 is amusing to me. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999915.html#msg999915) in particular is hilarious for reasons undisclosed.
Tempted to vote.

Did you answer what these reasons were?

This interests me
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 06:56:05 AM
The fact that it was super bad and his misunderstandings regarding "probably mislynch victims" was what was so hilarious.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 07:02:21 AM
but does undisclosed mean in this sense?  I'm a little confused
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 07:03:32 AM
For reasons that I didn't feel like explaining at the time?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: PX on August 03, 2013, 07:45:31 AM
3.25 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130803T06&p0=3378)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 03, 2013, 11:02:13 AM
##vote: scum
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 11:05:07 AM
But the scum are town. Who are you really working for?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 03, 2013, 11:07:13 AM
the mafia are town. the scum are scum
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 11:22:07 AM
But what about the mafiascum?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 01:04:56 PM
Yeah a reread makes me think once again that Affinity is scum
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 01:10:19 PM
##Unvote

##Vote Dormio

Because there is no way newbie will change votes and I'm going to die.

I'm just saving everyone time.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 01:20:18 PM
gg then I guess.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 01:27:24 PM
should I wait for the flip or?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 01:29:17 PM
Pretty sure we should.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 01:31:32 PM
ok
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 03, 2013, 06:08:12 PM
Apologies, I probably should have warned PX that I'd be sleeping in today.

You all wake up (after sleeping five more minutes) to find that Dormio has been shot.
Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are Dormio, the Thousand Names.
You are a Mafia Goon. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You win when all members of the town have been removed from the Mafia.

To apologize for the slowing game and the late phase change, let us fast forward through the rest of time

Validon has been Lynched.
Quote from: Town Mafia Role PM
You are Validon, The Passionate Wind.
You are a Mafia Goon. You have no abilities beyond your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You win when all members of the town have been removed from the Mafia.
A Bed of Flowers has been laid across Shadoweh's grave

You all wake up to find ActionDan has been killed
Quote from: Town Mafia Role
You are ActionDan, The Action Man.
You are the Mafia Gift Giver. Once per day you may select one person. That person will then be given an object with which they may use at their disclosure. There is no known limit to the number of gifts you can give over the course of the game. Beyond that you have your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You win when all members of the town have been removed from the Mafia.

Affinity Survived the game!
Quote from: Role PM
You are Affinity, The Cold-hearted Busser. Or you would be if you were a part of the Mafia.
You are the Town Busdriver. You share a quicktopic with Serela, the Town Mason and Raitaki, the Town Miller. Once per day you may select two people. Any actions that target one of those two will instead target the other. This action cannot be used to affect the lynch, since the lynch is not considered an action. Beyond that you have your part to control the nightkill and the ability to discuss the game in the thread.
You win when your faction (town) collectively holds voting majority over the nightkill.
Town Wins
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Night 5)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 03, 2013, 06:10:44 PM
Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/wrHK2q3KD4Ss (Includes role information and night actions)
Town: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/JP8qN4vZbhLP8
Graveyard: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/a3LSi8Viavw

Those who wish to share their thoughts QTs are able to do so now.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 03, 2013, 06:13:16 PM
So, uh, Shadoweh is going to strangle me because on like Day 3 I offhandedly asked who was alive in the mafia game (and wasn't following it at all because I'm too cool for mafia) and was like "Oh, it has to be BT or Affinity"

WELLP!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 03, 2013, 06:13:59 PM
It occurs to me that I forgot to check if it was after deadline, but I already posted everything. :ohdear:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Shadoweh on August 03, 2013, 06:17:57 PM
W-what? But.. I.. N-no!
PLEASE IGNORE MY QT RANTING OKAY ;_;
I guess Affinity being the bus driver was fate..
Edit: "Raitiki I'll try to defend you as much as possible this game so play your best! " rofl
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 06:55:39 PM
KNEW IT.

... ;-;

That D4 was just too much.

(e: not D3 so confusing)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Affinity on August 03, 2013, 07:10:17 PM
Really lucked out on the BT lynch D4.  Other than that I don't have much to say except that I thought I was done by the time D3 started.

I hope my meta is more two-dimensional now as a result of this game... >_>
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 03, 2013, 07:14:58 PM
Very glad Affinity won this. When will people learn that not hammering obvscum for the sake of increasing daytalk time is a fucking dumb idea?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 07:28:37 PM
What the hell, I couldn't tell Affinity was scum at all! Where was I supposed to see it?

Very glad Affinity won this. When will people learn that not hammering obvscum for the sake of increasing daytalk time is a fucking dumb idea?

Oh bite me, I couldn't tell! >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Affinity on August 03, 2013, 07:29:29 PM
BBM got it in the graveyard
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: PX on August 03, 2013, 07:36:01 PM
"Increasing day talk"

Proceed for nobody to post for the rest of the day >_>

Also, I didn't decide to end it because I immediately recognized it was past deadline and let Zak deal with it. Oh well, this result was probably gonna happen anyways
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 07:40:48 PM
I love how basically in the graveyard in the end everyone was like "town deserves to lose this." Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. Of course I had no fucking clue Affinity was scum so whatever.
I guess that means good game, Affinity. I had NO clue and in the end I voted Dormio because Dormio played bad enough for me to go "wait what." >_>;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: PX on August 03, 2013, 07:48:42 PM
I love how basically in the graveyard in the end everyone was like "town deserves to lose this." Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. Of course I had no fucking clue Affinity was scum so whatever.
I guess that means good game, Affinity. I had NO clue and in the end I voted Dormio because Dormio played bad enough for me to go "wait what." >_>;

No, they thought you won the game. They lost.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 07:51:22 PM
No, they thought you won the game. They lost.

...I thought they weren't going by flavor. I should mention the reverse role flavor thing has been confusing to me the entire game so, uh... yeah. >.<
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 08:03:55 PM
Reasons to suspect Affinity: incriminating voting patterns, no jaw-dropping cases - basically a very "neutral" game in lack of anything particularly scummy. Though there was one thing - how he kept his vote on me on D4 - that should have earned him attention but didn't. Oh well.

Town deserved to lose for being too apathetic for more than half of the game. Some of my comments in the dead QT cover this - particularly those wrt D4. Unfortunately I can't say that scum "earned" their victory too - Affinity was on par and that's about it.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 08:06:55 PM
Dormio really should have showed up on D4. Shadoweh should have waited for as long as possible instead of hammering an hour early btw.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 08:17:44 PM
lol. W/e can't win with Validon.

It wasn't as obvious as I made it out to be that Affinity was scum.  I just wanted to get Validon to vote Affinity. 

I mean I might have let it go to no-lynch, but I figured based on Validon being seemingly set on Dormio and knowing that probably based on his response to me voting affinity he wouldn't change his mind.

@ "town deserved to lose" sentiment.  No fuck that.  Town deserved to win.  Scum got destroyed.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 08:18:39 PM
I love how basically in the graveyard in the end everyone was like "town deserves to lose this." Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. Of course I had no fucking clue Affinity was scum so whatever.
I guess that means good game, Affinity. I had NO clue and in the end I voted Dormio because Dormio played bad enough for me to go "wait what." >_>;

I told you Affinity was scum.

I was confirmed town.

What the fucking fuck
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 08:20:20 PM
The thing is I wasn't sure and I didn't want to jump to conclusions. You could have, you know, backed it up with evidence. You just said "vote Affinity." >_>;

EDIT:

lol. W/e can't win with Validon.

I'll just stay out of the next game, then.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 08:29:43 PM
Oh come on, scum getting steamrolled was scum's fault not town's. When you take everything into account none of us really deserved to win so "town didn't deserve it" sentiments are kind of justified.

Validon: dw. Now you can look back at this and think about what made you choose wrongly twice in a row. Having room for improvement isn't that bad.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Raikaria on August 03, 2013, 08:29:52 PM
How did Mafia throw this? The town got two lynched D1 and D2.

Oh wait that's normal MotK mafia stuff.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: I have no name on August 03, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
Don't not join a game because of that-people screw up.
Don't join if you're not having fun/don't feel like it, but not because people are putting you down.  Take it as a challenge to improve.

And before someone tries calling me a hypocrite for not playing after a few consecutive games of being lynched ASAP-I've had other stuff going on that I needed to focus on.

You could have, you know, backed it up with evidence. You just said "vote Affinity." >_>;
This is a valid point.  Honestly I'd say Dan threw the game from an observers perspective on the last day but whatever.  'town' lost, 'scum' won, no amount of finger pointing and blaming could change that.  Just learn from the mistakes that were made, become better players and keep having fun  :)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 08:32:36 PM
No IHNN, Validon's the closest there is to "the game thrower" just from the weight of his choices, practically deciding the last two lynches, but this is more of a universal loss, not one man's.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on August 03, 2013, 08:35:59 PM
I told you Affinity was scum.

I was confirmed town.

What the fucking fuck

You had no 100% reason to suspect Affinity as scum, nor did you really even give reasons based on scumhunting. You weren't wrong in this situation, but townies can be wrong about scumreads. You can't expect others to sheep everything you say just because you're confirmed town.

Basically town lost because of the dumb BT lynch on N4. Even if town had wanted to be lazy and just PoE, they could have still won had they lynched Dormio N4 and then Affinity tonight. Half the game even recognized the extreme likelihood that VM had inspected BT, for them to put BT at the top of their townie list.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 08:39:11 PM
Okay, looking back, I was on Dormio's case mainly because I was not used to how he plays. That lack of effort seemed scummy, and despite everyone saying "that doesn't mean anything," I ignored that and kept thinking he was suspicious. Him posting a lot of stuff about the Steam Summer Sale didn't help matters. So my mistake was not knowing how to read Dormio properly, in other words "this semi-lack of effort thing is normal and doesn't paint him as either scum or town." Which of course is confusing as hell but then again this was the first time I've played in a game with Dormio.

And I was being slightly joking when I said I wasn't going to join the next game. Of course I am. Dan has a right to be frustrated at me somewhat but then again he could have been a little more clear as to why he wanted me to vote that way. ^^;

Cut: @BT: I also wasn't even freaking there for most of Night 5. I wasn't trying to throw the game at all. I didn't WANT to decide the last two lynches, but things got thrown my way and of course I made a mistake because "whoops, I don't get Dormio's meta."

Cut Again: Yeah, I admit the BT thing was dumb but I wasn't sure and I was wrong so argh sue me, I screwed up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 03, 2013, 08:40:26 PM
@ "town deserved to lose" sentiment.  No fuck that.  Town deserved to win.  Scum got destroyed.

2/3 of the scum team got destroyed. Town only deserves to win if 3/3 of the scum team gets destroyed.

Town arrogance and complacency was what let Affinity back in the game. Guess which individual player embodied both of those qualities the most? Here's a hint: it wasn't Validon.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on August 03, 2013, 08:42:42 PM
Oh, and the SB lynch was bad too. You can't say EVERYONE ELSE IS TOWN OFF META when you don't even know SB's meta as town and scum. For all you knew, he could have been extremely super townie off meta, more than anybody else. It was at least somewhat better than BT's since SB barely showed up to defend himself, but still.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 03, 2013, 08:48:17 PM
If I ever play another game with SB I will refuse to vote him for any reason out of principle. 2/2 for being a dumb mislynch. ;_;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 08:53:48 PM
2/3 of the scum team got destroyed. Town only deserves to win if 3/3 of the scum team gets destroyed.

Town arrogance and complacency was what let Affinity back in the game. Guess which individual player embodied both of those qualities the most? Here's a hint: it wasn't Validon.

I'll give you the arrogance, but complacent I was not.  I had said back with 6 alive that the only two people left to vote were Dormio and Affinity.  The reasons I had for town reading the rest of everybody were both prescient and succinct. 
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 08:56:00 PM
The thing is I wasn't sure and I didn't want to jump to conclusions. You could have, you know, backed it up with evidence. You just said "vote Affinity." >_>;

EDIT:

I'll just stay out of the next game, then.

Hard to believe you'd have listened to me.  I directly said on the last day "no claims plz".  And what did you do right after? Claim.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 03, 2013, 09:22:11 PM
if dormio was scum then the scumteam piled on shadoweh's wagon D1 1-2-3 at the start of the day, giving them little room to maneuver their votes*. on the other hand, affinity's vote was perfectly timed to push shadoweh over serela right as the serela wagon started to pop up. this was really easy to find on re-read and i was pretty sure affinity was scum but then again i'm inclined to think nobody in lylo re-read the game

*theoretically scum can all wagon together on purpose but they never do
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 09:27:32 PM
No I definitely thought his votes were well timed, his cases on SB too, that's what I meant by bad voting patterns. That was pretty much it though and I had to argue with stuff like "his content is town!affinity content".

Though yes it definitely should have been considered and I think I'm the only one who brought it up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 03, 2013, 09:32:02 PM
I had to argue with stuff like "his content is town!affinity content".
this shit is the worst and should be taken to mafiascum ftr

don't try to meta-read the content of players who have static posting styles. i mean you can but what's the point. also if you can't explain why a meta read is valid properly it's probably bad
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on August 03, 2013, 09:32:58 PM
I noticed it, but ded.

Why was I killed btw?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 03, 2013, 09:37:48 PM
Honestly, if there is any one person to blame, its not any of the people that made it into Kilo Lylo.
It's true that town fell into arrogance and complacency, but I think that after BT's lynch they had that wrapped up and were starting up their trains of thought and rereads and blah blah all over again. Night five saw it's fair share of arguing and discussion comparative to the fact that there were only 2 people that actually needed to decide.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 09:40:37 PM
re-read the game



I did.  not joking.  Even meta'd dormio
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 09:50:05 PM
There was also the fact I wasn't even really there Night 5. I would have definitely gotten more into the discussion... if it weren't for the fact real life got in the way. It got in the way for a lot of the game, actually. Next game hopefully I'll actually be around more. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 03, 2013, 09:51:00 PM
i offered to sub in!!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 03, 2013, 09:51:30 PM
i would've posted "btw guys validon was newbscum who didn't realize you're supposed to quickhammer" and voted affinity
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 03, 2013, 09:53:36 PM
I don't see why you couldn't have been allowed to. I would have been fine with letting you take my place Night 5 due to my absence. ^^;
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
(http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222838583210/FC29087AD47CD719C2000164783DA210F403E4B4/)
(http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222861072557/56659B7A6280E898D0F19ADA04431DC6AA38B7C5/)

This sort of thing is what my time was going towards btw towards the end of the game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 03, 2013, 10:19:36 PM
Oh yeah here (http://quicktopic.com/50/H/R876dRPsLHa6) is my super boring personal QT because I didn't really post in it much since I was doing other stuff.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on August 03, 2013, 11:39:16 PM
Honestly, if there is any one person to blame, its not any of the people that made it into Kilo Lylo.
It's true that town fell into arrogance and complacency, but I think that after BT's lynch they had that wrapped up and were starting up their trains of thought and rereads and blah blah all over again. Night five saw it's fair share of arguing and discussion comparative to the fact that there were only 2 people that actually needed to decide.

That's just the point. After BT's lynch. Both of town's available mislynches were wasted due to the arrogance and complacency, and by the time people realized that the town was in danger of losing, the game was in effective D3 LYLO because everybody had been equally lazy the last two cycles, causing them to both be very unhelpful in assisting scumhunting.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: WHMZakeri on August 03, 2013, 11:52:46 PM
That's just the point. After BT's lynch. Both of town's available mislynches were wasted due to the arrogance and complacency, and by the time people realized that the town was in danger of losing, the game was in effective D3 LYLO because everybody had been equally lazy the last two cycles, causing them to both be very unhelpful in assisting scumhunting.

That's pretty much exactly my point.
There's no reason to pin the blame on Dan or Validon for doing what they did during lylo, because they were both doing their best to salvage a lost game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 11:54:20 PM
what game wasn't lost even after BT was lynched.

BT's lynch was a complete waste imo, but it didn't mean the game was over.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 03, 2013, 11:56:36 PM
and 2ndly, during that lynch Validon went from possibly mislynch material to becoming super town.  (thanks 80% to me).  you could say we saved a lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Mitsuki on August 04, 2013, 12:02:22 AM
I won!

I mean, sure, I lost. But I won my bet with Vhaltz guessing the last mafia!
Betting on mafia should become mainstream.

I really hope the next games I join don't end up becoming so inactive and lazy. I already experienced that in a game before this one, and I thought it was because I was playing with inexperienced players. I'd never have imagined that could happen with people who know what they are doing (>_<) Also, the game was solved.
Next time something like this happens, I think that could be solved by a simple reread. If you don't really feel like rereading the entire game at least check your posts and thoughts. (I gave an explanation on why I think this would be useful in the graveyard, if you want to check)

Also, I know I try to use meta and such and fail at it. I won't stop doing that though because I wouldn't learn that way. I'll learn by being wrong a thousand times and analizing my failures during my free time~
However, if someone really hates that I can stop. (?_o)7

Vhaltzotsuki's hydra QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/kRpXZ9XUkXGh (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/kRpXZ9XUkXGh)
You'll realize that Vhaltz was the one who provided the most content to the posts, but who cares.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: SB on August 04, 2013, 12:03:49 AM
lazy towns in charge of losing games
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: SB on August 04, 2013, 12:06:16 AM
If I ever play another game with SB I will refuse to vote him for any reason out of principle. 2/2 for being a dumb mislynch. ;_;

YOU REMEMBER
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Vhaltz on August 04, 2013, 12:11:41 AM
Like I said in the graveyard I'm fine with the Affinity win. Dormio deserved to be lynched instead and should've been the one to be force-subbed due to repeated proclaimed lack of interest in the game. It really kills the game for me when people don't play to their wincon and I know I've been really pushy with my cases this game and people could be annoyed at me for that, but I still don't really get why I had to get AtE thrown at me for expecting something as basic as that. =/.

I really don't mean to be a jerk, but man, Dormio, your play this game was really bad compared to several other games you've played that I read. I'm not sure if I'll want to sign up if you do this again next game.

Other than that I find myself nodding to BBM's and Kilga's postgame thoughts so far. SB lynch was kinda meh but somewhat logical at the time due to circumstances and PoE so I don't really blame people for that. What did make me go what the fuck was the the BT lynch, which I thought was infinitely worse because I expected the game to get back on track with more rereads and posts and cases after PoE failed with SB flipping mafia goon. Instead N4 ended up with a lynch on a cop inno that everybody had gone into detail on the day before (like Conq said it's the ONLY read I never wavered on throughout the whole day, Validon doesn't count because I got his townread like halfway into the day).
The only reason that crossed my mind that BT might've been an okay lynch was if Shadoweh had explained her bus driver paranoia properly, but she didn't until she hit the graveyard, so I'm still ??? on what happened then.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 12:17:32 AM
Dormio did fine?

?

?

BT lynch was a product of Shadoweh derping + Validon sheeping + Dormio lynching because what ever.

I think a no-lynch that day would actually have been best.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 12:24:20 AM
"i'm happy my faction lost because player X is a fucking scrub" is defeatist and lame
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 04, 2013, 12:33:55 AM
Like I said in the graveyard I'm fine with the Affinity win. Dormio deserved to be lynched instead and should've been the one to be force-subbed due to repeated proclaimed lack of interest in the game. It really kills the game for me when people don't play to their wincon and I know I've been really pushy with my cases this game and people could be annoyed at me for that, but I still don't really get why I had to get AtE thrown at me for expecting something as basic as that. =/.
I was still playing to win? At what point was I not?
And it's not my fault if sign ups take over two weeks to fill up which basically means that my entire break is gone and most of my time goes towards uni stuff, job interviews, and my mother and I want to spend the little time I do get to myself playing video games that I got recently during the summer sale.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Vhaltz on August 04, 2013, 12:36:30 AM
Oh, and apologies that my game sucked ass cop-wise. I've only played vanilla or functional vanilla so far and this is my 5th serious game altogether :ohdear:

You can actually see how I switch from playing normally to going "oh shit shit shit shit we're cops and I totally forgot shit shit gonna die" somewhere in my QT with Mitsuki after half of N1 had gone by. I'm curious to know whether Affinity thought we were likely a power role for some reason or what happened altogether with us getting killed before Conq since there's nothing on that in the scum QT. I wanted to try a bulletproof crumb gambit to survive onto N3 but we decided against it and I agreed because I figured he'd be visiting the graveyard first.


cut: I'm pretty sure I've either been reading all of Dormio's stellar games or he's been really subpar this time around.
@Hw. You're generalizing. This is my sentiment right now because I didn't get a say in the final deciding stage of the game and I think Dormio can use the feedback. I obviously would've thought differently if I had still been in the game. This was originally in the post earlier but I removed that part because it was put in words in the way of "I probably would've been angry had I been the one to decide the lynch between Dormio and Affinity and lynching Dormio had turned out with a mafia goon flip like it just did" and I didn't want to go out of line bashing Dormio. I think his play has been not good in comparison to earlier games but not bad enough to go that far when I'm still not that familiar with the playerbase.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Mitsuki on August 04, 2013, 12:40:15 AM
Dormio, it's fine. I just hope that the next game you join you'll be more active, and if you find yourself under similar circumstances again I think it'd be a good idea to consider getting a replacement.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 04, 2013, 12:41:14 AM
Yeah my play was pretty shit because I didn't spend all that much time reading the topic and thinking of  :wikipedia:. Being a non-native english speaker sucks and having to deal with hospital visits for yourself while your mother has an operation too and then getting all my shit for uni ready and having job interviews is not really the most motivating situation for mafia.
At least Raitaki was scum!

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I was asking polly-kun to replace for me from day 2 lol but he said no. :(
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Vhaltz on August 04, 2013, 12:42:27 AM
And now that I know there's IRL reasons behind it I don't feel it was that bad anymore. These were never mentioned in game (other than at the AtE juncture iirc) and the sensation I got was that you were just ignoring mafia in favor of playing other games all day. This read to me like scum who didn't feel like they needed to put effort in the game to survive throughout the whole game (and postgame until now) after N1 ended.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 04, 2013, 12:44:33 AM
I just like to talk about video games.
Also, I hate a burning hatred for AtE so I usually avoid bringing it up in game. Unless I'm scum and don't give a fuck.

Or I just don't care in general. That too.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 04, 2013, 01:45:45 AM
I will certainly grant that everyone got lazy/complacent by Day 3 or whatever it was. Watching Raitaki's lynch proceed at a snail's pace made me actively root for the remaining scum to win the game out of spite. (ProTip: Not hammering obvscum is anti-town because it maximizes scum's strategizing/recovery time. bofh and I won a game a couple of years ago that we should have lost after a Day 3 obvscum lynch because town talked itself all the way to deadline and it gave us the chance to recuperate and work out how to get ourselves back in the game. If someone is obvscum, hammer them and sort out the details the next day. Doing so also saves the game from stagnation, and stagnation leads to town apathy, which is arguably worse than giving scum a chance to collect themselves.) I only called out Dan because he called out Validon when his excuse for not actually playing the game on Day 5 was/is "Validon probably wouldn't have listened", which is a total non-reason. Also, changing your vote from the person you think is more likely to be scum to the person you think is less likely to be scum just so the game will end is playing against your win con, but that's another discussion.

YOU REMEMBER

Woundwort x Melvin for life, broseph <3
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Shadoweh on August 04, 2013, 03:04:13 AM
After reading the mod QT and how the Town Miller is also suposed to fool the rolecop, I'm double-mad about the self-targetting busdriver on top of that. >:< Why even give investigative roles that don't work on 2/3 of the town, especially since I would have got nothing from Serela either!

I'm really sorry about SB but it didn't occur to me at all that my result was switched. Because I'm an idiot.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 03:13:20 AM
After reading the mod QT and how the Town Miller is also suposed to fool the Roleclop, I'm double-mad about the self-targetting busdriver on top of that. >:< Why even give investigative roles that don't work on 2/3 of the town, especially since I would have got nothing from Serela either!
idk why you're complaining about this seeing as you played in touhou NOCfia
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 03:22:49 AM
Kilga I played the game day5 and got Dormio to townslip. What?   

Perhaps I did not do a good enough job of babysitting Validon by stating that Dormio looked really damn town from the slip before he came out and said "I'm voting Dormio cuz I think this is right, if you don't think so then w/e"

I responded clarifying my position and then went to sleep.  When I woke up it was past deadline.  Still thought Affinity was scum but Validon hadn't posted. 

I could have begged in my last moments of being alive, for Validon to consider the townslip.  and vote Affinity.

But you know what.  I thought even if I tried my hardest I didn't think Validon would consider it, or only consider it in passing.  I don't feel like going into detail about why I thought that, but I am pretty confident that I'd have been right.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 03:25:10 AM
Basically don't trivialize my god damn performance with bullshit standards.  I did fucking Fantastic.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 04, 2013, 03:37:56 AM
You got 2/3 of the scum lynched. Fantastic is getting 3/3 of the scum lynched. Maybe you can't see this because your ginormous ego is blocking your field of vision, but you don't win the game by correctly identifying all of the anti-towns. You win the game by killing all of the anti-towns.

What you did on Day 5 was either knowingly throw the game because you wanted it to end (if you actually did think what you claim about Validon) or make a mistake in judgment that literally invalidated your play up to that point in the game and are now blaming your mistake on the easy target because your ego can't handle the fact that you lost (if you didn't think what you claim about Validon). Either way, you should probably never play on this site again, because attitudes like yours are the cancer that kills this game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 04, 2013, 03:58:59 AM
I did fucking Fantastic. (http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/1/12/Wind_ability_focusfire_04.mp3)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 04, 2013, 04:04:12 AM
Also gonna link this game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.0.html) just as an example of why one shouldn't just give up in the face of someone that doesn't look like they'll change their mind.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 04:08:29 AM
You got 2/3 of the scum lynched. Fantastic is getting 3/3 of the scum lynched. Maybe you can't see this because your ginormous ego is blocking your field of vision, but you don't win the game by correctly identifying all of the anti-towns. You win the game by killing all of the anti-towns.

What you did on Day 5 was either knowingly throw the game because you wanted it to end (if you actually did think what you claim about Validon) or make a mistake in judgment that literally invalidated your play up to that point in the game and are now blaming your mistake on the easy target because your ego can't handle the fact that you lost (if you didn't think what you claim about Validon). Either way, you should probably never play on this site again, because attitudes like yours are the cancer that kills this game.

I knowingly "threw" the game.  As in I believed that Affinity was more likely scum than Dormio when I hammered Dormio.  Did I not make that pretty obvious? 

I don't particularly think that's cancerous considering the bitching in the dead QT by both players and mods wanting me to end the game.   I particularly thought it was sportsmanlike if you disregard the blatant assumption of complete incompetency on the part Validon that would have to go along with that decision (and it did).
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Edible on August 04, 2013, 04:09:34 AM
God damn Dan, shut up.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 04:13:17 AM
I knowingly "threw" the game.
then you've broken "play to win" and have already lost all credibility so i don't know what you're trying to argue

it was still possible to make a case for scum!affinity, let the game go to nl, and pray you prompted validon to rethink the situation and read the game once more. better than the guaranteed loss if you were right
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 04:24:55 AM
An adequate case for scum!affinity was made (and making more cases with Validon's limited time would have been counterproductive.  "missing the forest for the trees").   I could have let it go to NL and then a tomorrow following that.

However, as I said, I truly believe Validon would not have considered it.  I value (and apparently many others do as well) the time not wasted more than betting on this unlikelihood to occur. 
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 04:28:56 AM
Also gonna link this game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.0.html) just as an example of why one shouldn't just give up in the face of someone that doesn't look like they'll change their mind.

pinpoint the example?  If it's Omba changing her mind about Kitten4U then it's because Omba thought I was town and Omba thought he had the security of another day wherein K4U would be dead and it would be ActionDan vs Shadoweh wherein he was comfortable with lynching Shadoweh.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 04, 2013, 04:37:02 AM
All of Day 4, where I did what anyone that actually respects the game does and spent 72 hours working to get my point across in the face of multiple people that have no intention of listening to me. Ultimately, it worked out, and it was at least partially because of me, as Shadowy admitted postgame.

I don't hold anyone to standards that I don't also hold myself to, even if those standards are "argue to the get the last scum lynched even if you don't think people will listen."
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 04:47:58 AM
O wait that Adorable, not A balanced.  my bad.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Validon98 on August 04, 2013, 04:56:37 AM
Dan, I really hate that you think I'm too incompetent to consider another opinion. Yes, I had limited time. Yes, I was gunning for Dormio. But you should know by now that I often listen to other opinions if they are swaying enough. It seemed like you tried a little bit but then you gave it up as hopeless and voted Dormio even though you had it figured it couldn't be him. It feels very much to me like you threw the game and considered me a lost cause in terms of voting for Affinity.
I understand I'm still not as good as everyone else here, Dan, but I at least gave a damn effort as the game went on, even if I disappeared for a day or so. Again, I wish I was here near the end of Night 5 so that I could have been involved in the discussion, but even if I wasn't you could have tried and provided some sort of argument so that when I came back I could read it and reconsider. Hell, you could have even petitioned for an extension or something because I couldn't be there, even though Zakeri probably would not have granted it! Anything!
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 05:05:52 AM
Quote
I at least gave a damn effort as the game went on

True you did.  However you were barely paying any attention to what I was posting either.  Or if you did you didn't particularly care. 

You claimed after I said we shouldn't claim, with reasons (regardless of whether people thought they were silly).  that was an unprompted unilateral decision on your part.

You hand waved my vote for Affinity as well.  That by itself probably wasn't what made me think you didn't care.  It was the phrasing and particularly the word "whatever" attached.  That meant it did not matter to you.

Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 04, 2013, 05:16:10 AM
stahp
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Conqueror on August 04, 2013, 05:38:04 AM
kinda reminds me of the ending to the first game i ever played here, gdc mafia when px basically gave up on convincing huhwhat that k4u was the scums

but seriously can we not do this

i think more people would play mafia if people showed a little more respect to each other after the game. it's a game, after all. a serious game, but a game.

anyway, mistakes were made; we learn from them and move on

good salvage by affinity
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: PX on August 04, 2013, 05:48:43 AM
Ah, AGoM

We tried so hard
And we got so far
But in the end
It didn't even matter  :fail:
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 05:52:17 AM
conq sucks and need to pick better loli mage hosts :/
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Shadoweh on August 04, 2013, 06:00:17 AM
Mitsuki: Don't worry, I do the same thing. huh what x Serela 4 lyfe!
And Conq x Dan or the Gumshoeship of course
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 06:05:04 AM
ive already said dating people you play mafia with is a terrible idea, possibly the worst
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 06:05:44 AM
(otherwise i'd totally date serela. actually probably not because he's into a bunch of furry bara stuff and i don't like that)
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Shadoweh on August 04, 2013, 06:08:43 AM
<.< >.> <.< IF YOU SAY SO
So that's the only reason it wouldn't work out huh? If only you could give up your passion for roping people! Such a tragedy! DON'T CUT ME
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 06:27:15 AM
lol i just read the hydra quicktopic, good 2 know mitsuki acknowledges im the best :>

bbm waffles more as town because he posts his legitimate thought process. i waffle more as scum because i try to sound like i'm posting a legitimate thought process, but as town i just don't include that unless i'm unsure and asking for another person's opinion, because it doesn't convince people
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on August 04, 2013, 06:39:20 AM
The biggest difference between my town and mafia play (I think) is that as town, I will probably clear half the game after the first scum lynch. As scum I tend to handwave associative reads a lot of the time because it's easier to leave people open as ML candidates if you don't talk about how they're town.  And if I do start clearing people as scum, then I'm just PoEing myself down and you'll get me later in the game anyways (Villains, and to a lesser extent, Touhou NOCfia).

BTW, do I really come off as prideful?
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 06:55:14 AM
btw if you post self-meta without any intent of subverting it immediately next game you're doing it wrong
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on August 04, 2013, 06:58:40 AM
why would you ruin my plan Prims

FINISHED READING HYDRA QT

"I also think Serela/Affinity/Raitaki is a little bit unlikelier than the rest of Serela/Raitaki/other scumteams because looking up "Raitaki" in Affinity's ISO turns up nothing"

The bolded is probably one of the largest signs of scumbuddies, particularly if the person not being talked about was lynched. Scum want to ignore their buddies as much as possible. You don't really want to attack them too much and get them lynched, nor do you want to defend them and seem like you were buddying with scum if they get lynched anyways. If you're town and the name of the day's lynch doesn't show up in your ISO, you're doing it wrong for several reasons. Firstly because it makes it harder for scum to ignore their buddies, as that would stand out more, secondly because it makes it easier for others to get associative reads on you from the flip, and thirdly because you're otherwise not really making an impact on the lynch.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Affinity on August 04, 2013, 07:53:57 AM
Uhh I did talk about raitaki, just that I misspelled it as raitiki.

Anyways validon played fine. Actiondan is being insufferable for whaling on a newbie only trying his best.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 04, 2013, 08:00:49 AM
towntell imo, scumbuddies would know how to spell eachother's names from reading them in the quicktopic
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Shadoweh on August 04, 2013, 08:14:16 AM
Except that he was calling him Raitiki in the QT as well! It sounds like a tasty tropical mafia drink. I'd like a few Raitiki's before the next game.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 04, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
(http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222861072557/56659B7A6280E898D0F19ADA04431DC6AA38B7C5/)
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222889705759/1F25EDA4AF5FA5CDF0987F6366B6ECC0B9D53064/)
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222861075460/8BFB52CEE31BC88DA8C77621BB28F0CC45FCC289/)
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222889699948/7CE4F5E560BA7465DAB563E734F89CC799177630/)
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/919018222889658294/AD179BC2685487C9BF72E304BA73E3022F38692E/)

I can't stop. Somebody. Send help.
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Mitsuki on August 04, 2013, 08:54:03 AM
Kilga, I kind of agree with what you say but the way you say it Dan is not going to listen (>_<)
Nobody would want to listen to someone who tells them they're like that... And I really think it's not that that big of a deal.


BTW, do I really come off as prideful?

Nah, I just misinterpreted things. Just like I once did with Vhaltz actually. (owo)/
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Vhaltz on August 04, 2013, 08:58:27 AM
towntell imo, scumbuddies would know how to spell eachother's names from reading them in the quicktopic

I never put much weight on this but looking back it's sad that I wasn't right just because it would be awesome if a tell so silly could be true :V

My eyes have been opened. HUHWHAT X SERELA OTP
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Conqueror on August 04, 2013, 12:25:00 PM
dormio at least it's not dota, btw tota desert where?

conq sucks and need to pick better loli mage hosts :/
mages suck, sordmasters all the way

Quote from: hydra qt
I cleaned the floor with leftover LIQUID NITROGEN.
i did this once too; was fun

also, all-town d1 flashwagon on scum, suck it VCAers

edit: "on scum", whoops, this isn't TD
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: Vhaltz on August 04, 2013, 12:43:39 PM
Quote from: scum qt Affinity
Raitiki I'll try to defend you as much as possible this game so play your best!

Quote from: scum qt Raitaki
Ew what

 :V :V :V
Title: Re: Town Mafia (Game Over)
Post by: ActionDan on August 04, 2013, 03:44:16 PM
Raitiki sounds like a Hawaiian god