Author Topic: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here  (Read 3656 times)

Failure McFailFace

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Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« on: March 08, 2014, 04:26:42 AM »
I notice that the wiki's specific stage strategies revolve around scoring.

Example:
Quote
Do whatever it takes to end up with full power on Patchouli's last Spell Card. That is worth about 15 million.
when score has no use in the EoSD Extra stage.

The Strategy sections for DDC is the best counterexample.

So post the tips away!

Example Tip:
Fairy Wars EX Beginning to Midboss:
Get to the top left corner of the screen ASAP before the fairies come in. Charge.
Stream in a large U pattern. Release the Ice when you get to about halfway down the screen.
When at the bottom of the screen, unfocus and run to the top right corner as fast as possible. Continue streaming.
When the Sunflower Fairies come in, stream from one of the bottom corners and avoid the blue bullets. When the third pair of fairies come, freeze the bullets.
Kill the blue fairies that come up from the sides at the center of the screen. Move out of the way for the oval fairy to shoot.
Graze the ovals and freeze the oval ring along with the fast, red bullets. Repeat until the oval fairy is on the right of the screen.
Start streaming the yellow bullets, dodging the green ones and freezing when the meter is at 100%.
After the fairies come in from both sides of the screen, repeat the beginning of the stage until Lily and Daiyosei come.
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Oh

Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2014, 06:27:32 AM »
There's a in-game function called replays which allows you to watch other people's runs. I find it really helpful both for survival and for score.
iirc nobody uses the wiki anyways.

Failure McFailFace

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2014, 03:26:19 PM »
I know about the replays. But I feel that text based guides (with pictures preferably) are easier for me (and probably some other people) to understand, especially if they don't have a lot of time to play Touhou, and only has time to browse the wiki or forums for a few minutes.
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

I have no name

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2014, 03:43:37 PM »
Think about the sheer volume of what you're suggesting, though.  We'll assume on average, you need 1 approach to a stage.  In actuality, depending on shot type you need a different approach to some sections, or some bits are easier (say, IN Stage 3 with Magic Team vs. Scarlet Team vs. Border/Ghost-I have a method that works with any, though simpler methods for non-Magic Team exist).  6 stages in 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, and 13, 6.5 in 14 (different boss, same stage), 8 in 8 and 15 (though with a lot of overlap) in 12.8.  This is without taking into account the photo games, which I would estimate at ~210 strategies for the 193 scenes, Last Words, Overdrive cards, or the 9 extras from the aforementioned games, or the 4 difficulties for each stage, or the PC-98 games, or PoFV.  Still, it's a lot of work for very little actual gain.

Something that could be useful, though, would be compiling every given answer in the spellcard help thread into pages sorted by game-this way, anything already asked has an answer, and things that are self-explanatory don't end up being explained for no one to see.

The difference in the 2 ideas, here, is that one generates all the content at once, regardless of if it's needed, while the other only generates it as requested.

Sakurei

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2014, 03:58:07 PM »
Hold shift for focused movement.

CyberAngel

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2014, 04:25:45 PM »
Something that could be useful, though, would be compiling every given answer in the spellcard help thread into pages sorted by game-this way, anything already asked has an answer, and things that are self-explanatory don't end up being explained for no one to see.

There was a talk here some time ago about hosting a gameplay wiki. I think it can nicely do just this. Spellcards, stages or what have you, it would be easy to keep things easily accessible, organized and non-redundant that way.

Tengukami

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2014, 05:34:38 PM »
I'm noticing a pattern here ...

The thing is, again, you're proposing a massive undertaking involving everyone else doing the bulk of the work for something that amounts to a solution looking for a problem.

And I agree that organizing the Spell Card help thread would be a lot more worthwhile.

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Shimatora

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2014, 07:41:28 PM »
I'm noticing a pattern here ...

The thing is, again, you're proposing a massive undertaking involving everyone else doing the bulk of the work for something that amounts to a solution looking for a problem.

And I agree that organizing the Spell Card help thread would be a lot more worthwhile.

I'm going to have to agree with Tengukami. As it is this thread is no different to the spellcard help topic, except it's just about attempting to answer unasked questions. This idea is pretty redundant without it being in Wiki-anyone-can-edit format. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 07:43:28 PM by Shimatora »

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Failure McFailFace

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2014, 01:44:05 AM »
I'm noticing a pattern here ...

I have a strange mind full of strange ideas.

Anyway, I took a look at the Spellcard Help thread, and it's all about spellcards, like its title explains. No stage portions at all. Perhaps this thread can be the stage counterpart to it?
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Zil

Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2014, 04:38:52 AM »
It's not just for spell cards, it's for anything. The title is misleading. It's essentially the HME version of the miscellaneous questions thread in TARC.

Personally I think it could afford to be stickied / renamed.

Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2014, 08:25:42 AM »
I suggested a general Ask A Question thread a long time ago and got pointed to the one in TARC.

>___> I hope people see why that didn't satisfy me

But I've seen such things in several other forums, and they are VERY helpful. Honestly, it's a bit baffling that one doesn't exist in this one. But people use the Spellcard Help Topic for that basically (it's definitely not for just spellcards), so I guess the very obvious need for a Question thread kind of transformed an existing thread. Renaming it would probably be best.

Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2014, 01:59:20 PM »
Think about the sheer volume of what you're suggesting, though.  We'll assume on average, you need 1 approach to a stage.  In actuality, depending on shot type you need a different approach to some sections, or some bits are easier (say, IN Stage 3 with Magic Team vs. Scarlet Team vs. Border/Ghost-I have a method that works with any, though simpler methods for non-Magic Team exist).
Not to mention that you're going to have several microstrategies on your "main route" that could vary from person to person.  Some people might take a section more aggressively for the 1400 extend in PCB, others might prefer a safer route with less pocing, some people may or may not go for certain safespots or alternate strategies depending on if they find it or the normal method easier (for example, streaming vs doing little circles on SA stage 4 Orin1, safespot vs bottom for Kogasa spell 1, etc).  TD trance routes would be a total mess depending on if you're using them to not die or to get more lives and the whole different people find different things hard deal.  Replays are just so much cleaner if someone was going to do something like this.  At least then you don't have a fucking enormous 500 page wall of text for each game.  You can just link all the clips together chronologically and say "okay, here's your options, go nuts."  It'd be nice to have some sort of video strategy guide with everything in once place (instead of sifting through RF/Gensokyo), especially if it had commentary or annotations on it or something, but there's also the downside that videos are harder to edit, since if something new comes up you'd have to add it in and then re-upload (or leave it incomplete) and it's also pretty much all on one person to keep it updated unless you're regularly uploading the raw video files for people to use.  And even then you'd have varying degrees of quality both visually and in content.  It would be such a pain in the ass that I can't see anyone ever doing it.  I know I wouldn't.

Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2014, 03:13:03 PM »
The bad thing in having someone else do your homework for you is that you will never truly learn what the said homework was about.


The way I see it, figuring out  your own routes and learning how to carry out certain approaches is the most enjoyable content the STG's have to offer. Sure, you can watch replays and find out about a certain strategy, but you still need to learn how to carry out the route, and you have to go practice it in order to learn how to perform it. There's still a major part of the fun intact in that. However, what you're after is a step-by-step guidebook with all that information, which - while an interesting and congenial proposition - has quite a few problems in implementation.
 
First and foremost, it would require a massive amount of time and effort from those creating it, which is why most of the people have found it an repulsive idea. (and will do so in the future) Secondly, such a guide would have major parts of it consisting of nothing but advice such as: "dodge this pattern, and bomb if you can't", due to the nature of the games. Furthermore, there would be large disagreements with what should be written into this booklet of yours, as different people have their own fancy methods of approaching certain stages, and will find those of others greatly inferior due to not being as used to them. And for last, but not for the least, it wouldn't be as helpful as it might firsthand seem. There are many things about Touhou you won't understand by reading them from a book. Let's take an example; I can tell you about the sound memorization cues for Hourai Jewel grazing, I can even tell you in which order you press the keys, and I can link you to a replay which provides the said method. However, you won't be able to navigate the attack until you have went down there and banged your head against that rainbow-colored wall for a while.


To answer the question of survival tips adduced by the OP, whenever I'm in a situation where all else fails and I don't know how to navigate a pattern, the first approach is to attempt streaming. If that won't work, bomb. Afterwards, you can look at your own replay thinking of what went wrong. You can also grab a couple of other replays and see if you can steal a strategy for the said portion. This applies to any STG.

There was a talk here some time ago about hosting a gameplay wiki.
Oh, but we already have this thing and for IN, LET's site.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 03:42:55 PM by Inadequate »

Shimatora

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2014, 04:49:48 PM »
Oh, but we already have this thing and for IN, LET's site.

In Japanese.

A wiki was discussed some while ago, we just need to wait something to be implemented (if it does!) Just got to be patient and wait for it, the admins in question who would be responsible for supplying it are busy as it is.

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Karisa

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Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2014, 07:27:22 AM »
Regarding renaming the Spell Card Help thread (or perhaps creating the next version early with a new title), I think it's a good idea as well.

Any thoughts on what to call it-- perhaps "Touhou Gameplay Help Thread"?

Zil

Re: Post Your Specific Stage Survival Tips/Strategies Here
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 12:08:44 PM »
Sound fine to me. Go for it.