Author Topic: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion  (Read 371657 times)

EthanSilver

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #660 on: November 15, 2012, 03:10:59 AM »
Mokou doesn't need to resurrect. Doesn't she basically give up fighting after her injuries get the best of her? I'd think spending a few rounds getting the snot beaten out of her would easily account for that - it's not like she's immune to pain any more than a regular person is, and nobody gets killed after losing a round anyway...

(Totally partial to
As I said earlier, Mokou would be awesome to make; More kick attacks and fire based techniques offers millions of possibilities; Fireballs, explosions, phoenixes, etc.
^^^ this, btw. :))


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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #661 on: November 15, 2012, 03:24:40 AM »
As I said earlier, Mokou would be awesome to make; More kick attacks and fire based techniques offers millions of possibilities; Fireballs, explosions, phoenixes, etc.

As for Kaguya, her power is ''Manipulation of the eternal and the instantaneous.'' How... how can anyone use that in battle in another way than Sakuya's time abilities? And her spellcards are based on a legend, limiting her spellcards to 5 treasures; Unless many variants were made and used in different ways (spells and skills), I personally can't think of anything else to give her. I would've proposed rainbow projectiles, like many portrayals of her, but Meiling kinda stole the rainbow in UNL.
Well, to be fair, there're also the other versions of her 5 spells, y'know, stuff like how Salamander Shield is the H/L version of Fire Rat's robe?  Just cuz in the source game they're the same thing doesn't mean they have to be the same in the fighter, right?  Also, didn't some characters' spells from the other fighters originate IN those fighters?  Who says you can't do that again?  Maybe there're some other legendary items Kaguya could conjure from other stories and stuff?
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #662 on: November 15, 2012, 03:28:20 AM »
Let's not forget that Kaguya has superhuman strength.  Would be fun to see that implemented!

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #663 on: November 15, 2012, 05:45:39 AM »
That would mean some attacks might not do any damage at all :X since super cheap Yorihime could cut through Master Sparks and eat Stardust Reveries and use Sakuya's knives to her benefit.
Or be (temporarily) immune to projectiles.  Making her the Touhou equivalent of Jade.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #664 on: November 15, 2012, 06:49:23 AM »
Let's not forget that Kaguya has superhuman strength.  Would be fun to see that implemented!

Every character in the fighting game ends up with some sort of way to become a melee master.

- Reimu's Miko-Fu
- Marisa's Broom-Slap
- Sakuya Ninja-Maid style
- Sanae's gohei/wand/stick suddenly becoming a magical weapon of ultimate destruction.

Oh and by the way, this has been bugging me for a long time now, when Reimu does her charged 6A and her air 2A, it creates some sort of white...thingie...something...that she breaks. What exactly is that supposed to be? My theory is that she's breaking a boundary. Or something.

...Now I can't un-think Kaguya going Hulk all over everyone.

(Totally partial to^^^ this, btw. :))

I've always liked kick based attacks. I dunno, a kick in the face sounds way more threatening than a fist. And Mokou (explosively) kicking someone in the face with a trail of fire following her legs is preeeetty much my definition of badass.

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #665 on: November 15, 2012, 07:36:23 AM »
Kaguya would be kind of weird to implement. She has super human strength, so would you implement that? Even though she has super human strength, she rarely appears to use it, so should you implement it? Or just ignore it, since Aya is a youkai and should be physically stronger than Reimu or Marisa, but the damage does not reflect that on her physical attacks.
Her speed should be fairly slow, but she can stop time, do you implement her abilities as the same as Sakuya's? The description of her abilities is that she can do anything at instantaneous speed, so would she have some kind of time freeze/blink strike mechanic? Would you also implement her ability to manipulate parallel time lines(part of her time manipulation)? This could give her some sort of swap mechanic, kind of like Komachi and her life swap or position swap.

The Impossible Request should be implemented, but not necessarily all of them. I think the most well known one is Jeweled Branch of Hourai or something like that.

How about her resurrection? It doesn't really matter if fighters don't die, the point is Kaguya and Mokou both have a resurrection theme associated with them, so not having a resurrection mechanic is weird. If either Kaguya or Mokou are in, it is expected for one of them or both to have a resurrection mechanic. How do you balance that? It would be quite difficult and takes a lot of time. Do it wrong and they are either overpowered or too weak.

Quote
Every character in the fighting game ends up with some sort of way to become a melee master.

- Reimu's Miko-Fu
- Marisa's Broom-Slap
- Sakuya Ninja-Maid style
- Sanae's gohei/wand/stick suddenly becoming a magical weapon of ultimate destruction.

Those are kind of bad examples. Reimu and Sakuya should be decent at martial arts. Marisa and Sanae would likely be physically fit, so while not martial arts experts, should be able to hold their own. Patchouli and Alice are known to be not as good physically and it somewhat reflects in the game.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #666 on: November 15, 2012, 07:54:23 AM »
Those are kind of bad examples. Reimu and Sakuya should be decent at martial arts. Marisa and Sanae would likely be physically fit, so while not martial arts experts, should be able to hold their own. Patchouli and Alice are known to be not as good physically and it somewhat reflects in the game.

Sanae's melee attacks are her hitting people with a sheet of white paper that sends them flying across the stage. Same goes for everyone, really; My point wasn't that ''ZOMG THEY ALL GAIN STRENGTH RANDOMLY WTF'', it was that in the end, no matter their actual physical strength, it rarely does much difference: A kick in the face from Reimu will have the same effect as a Butterfly spin from Yuyuko, or a broom-smash by marisa, or whatever you want it to be. In the end, Kaguya's super strength (unless implied) would go unnoticed because that's how fighting games work. Not everyone can have a radically different melee style like Alice or Suwako, y'know.


Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #667 on: November 15, 2012, 08:42:11 AM »
Quote
Sanae's melee attacks are her hitting people with a sheet of white paper that sends them flying across the stage.

I understand what you are getting at, but I am saying those are not good examples, since they can all be explained. Sanae's sheet of white paper can very well be enchanted. Considering her opponents, it is most likely enchanted or magical in nature.

Which is why I put another example, Aya being a youkai, and youkai are supposed to be physically stronger than humans, but it wasn't reflected in the game.

Kaguya has some traits and the known ones should be reflected in a game. I like the way IaMP, SWR, and Soku characters are designed. Their fighting styles are all fairly unique and give you a sense that these may be how those characters fight. I would like to see that continue in Hopeless Masquerade. If Kaguya were in, I have mentioned a few things that should be taken into consideration.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #668 on: November 15, 2012, 10:09:27 AM »
I know one way to implement Kaguya's super strength: lift and throw the Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji as one of her special moves.

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #669 on: November 15, 2012, 10:38:11 AM »
Speaking of weather, I seem to be the only one here who liked such feature in SWR/UNL ;___;
I like it too! Having an element of luck makes things much more fun.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #670 on: November 15, 2012, 06:37:43 PM »
Sanae's melee attacks are her hitting people with a sheet of white paper that sends them flying across the stage.
We are just lucky she hasn't gotten her hands on construction paper. Or cardboard even.
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #671 on: November 16, 2012, 01:02:13 AM »
I like it too! Having an element of luck makes things much more fun.

I'm pretty sure I've both yelled out my hatred and sang my love for every weather in the game. About to win but opponent keeps blocking? HERE COMES TYPHOON! Opponent is about to activate super spellcard of death you won't be able to dodge? Why hello there, Mountain Vapor/Snow!

I mean, while it's not conventional and may lead to a loss even though you're technically better than your opponent, if you stop taking it seriously and just play to have fun without caring about winning or losing, that little randomness makes matches very fun.

I know one way to implement Kaguya's super strength: lift and throw the Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji as one of her special moves.

Bonus points for a WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY at the end.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #672 on: November 16, 2012, 01:29:17 AM »
We are just lucky she hasn't gotten her hands on construction paper. Or cardboard even.

Teach her origami and you'll invent the apocalypse. :getdown:

Ikari

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #673 on: November 16, 2012, 01:35:02 AM »
Teach her origami and you'll invent the apocalypse. :getdown:

Think for a second; With a rectangle piece of paper, she can send you flying across the air and create explosive fireworks.

Think of what it would become if it was some sort of magic paper swan of doom. *shudders*

Ooh and I realized something; I REALLY wish Hopeless Masquerade won't use any 263 or 421 combinations. I can't do those at ALL. Does anybody have any tips on how I'm supposed do them in UNL? I don't get it @___@

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #674 on: November 16, 2012, 01:58:30 AM »
Ooh and I realized something; I REALLY wish Hopeless Masquerade won't use any 263 or 421 combinations. I can't do those at ALL. Does anybody have any tips on how I'm supposed do them in UNL? I don't get it @___@
This probably isn't the thread to talk about that, so I'll just keep it short. First of all, I'm guessing you mean 623, because 263 isn't a thing iirc :U
You really just have to get used to the feel of it. It took me quite a while too. Practice the movement slowly first.
First press 6, then let go. Then press 2, and then 6 again, without letting go of 2.
It seems that a common struggle for people is at the beginning - be sure to have completely released 6 before pressing 2. Watch your fingers when you practice the movement, and be careful not to jumble your steps.

Ikari

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #675 on: November 16, 2012, 02:12:25 AM »
This probably isn't the thread to talk about that, so I'll just keep it short. First of all, I'm guessing you mean 623, because 263 isn't a thing iirc :U
You really just have to get used to the feel of it. It took me quite a while too. Practice the movement slowly first.
First press 6, then let go. Then press 2, and then 6 again, without letting go of 2.
It seems that a common struggle for people is at the beginning - be sure to have completely released 6 before pressing 2. Watch your fingers when you practice the movement, and be careful not to jumble your steps.

Ah yes, I confused the two buttons. I simply can't do that combination so instead I usually dash and do the usual 236 thing. It's not very convenient, but works ok, I guess.

And I REALLY hope they'll keep UNL's button configuration in Hopeless Masquerade. Seriously, it takes like 10 seconds to change buttons.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #676 on: November 16, 2012, 03:11:45 AM »
If your fingers are fast enough, you start turning 236 into 623's. It's annoying in the reverse direction, but I like my DP/reverse DP motions.
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #677 on: November 16, 2012, 03:14:48 AM »
Playing fighters help you get used to DPs (623 motions) or Fireballs (236) motions. Hey, at least you aren't getting 720's or charge attacks (I can't play charge characters...ever)

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #678 on: November 16, 2012, 03:22:19 AM »
I'm able to do 623 reliably by just doing 236236. It catches the necessary directions and ignores the rest. Of course this doesn't work in games where that's a motion for a super :V

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #679 on: November 16, 2012, 03:27:40 AM »
I just do 6236. Same thing but shorter and no accidental super :V

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #680 on: November 16, 2012, 04:15:54 AM »
Kaguya would be kind of weird to implement. She has super human strength, so would you implement that?

I'd say yes, we have Suika and Remilia (and Okuu) as examples of physical feats. Presence of physically strong girls that don't look strong isn't that weird in other fighting games as well (Vanguard Princess' Lilith, and -- shameless plug again -- Arcana Heart's Fiona and Angelia -- the latter can perform King Of Tager on buildings and meteors, though her damage isn't great outside of that. Fiona, on the other hand..).

Teach her origami and you'll invent the apocalypse. :getdown:

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #681 on: November 16, 2012, 05:29:26 AM »
Funnily enough, before playing IaMP/SWR, I wasn't too into fighters and always though DPs (623s) were double fireball motions (236236).

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #682 on: November 16, 2012, 07:12:11 AM »
As far as I can tell, on the keyboard, if you do 626 you can do dragon punch type moves.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #683 on: November 16, 2012, 03:15:48 PM »
As far as I can tell, on the keyboard, if you do 626 you can do dragon punch type moves.
That's usually only because as you transition from the 2 to 6 at one moment you'll hit 3 (unless you have super fast fingers), so in the end you're doing what Suikama mentioned, a 6236

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #684 on: November 17, 2012, 05:13:07 AM »
I want to mention something about Kaguya's speed.
Iku is pretty slow in SWR/UNL but she's still an AMAZING character.

So what I think about having both Mouku and Kaguya:

Mouku can be a fast, but light attacker.

Kaguya can be a slow, yet powerful attacker.

I think it'd be fun to have these two <<  :3

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #685 on: November 17, 2012, 06:10:17 AM »
Quote
That's usually only because as you transition from the 2 to 6 at one moment you'll hit 3 (unless you have super fast fingers), so in the end you're doing what Suikama mentioned, a 6236

On the keyboard, you do not need to transition from 2 to 3 to 6. you can just hit the forward, down, forward + attack and it will work. SWR and Soku are somewhat friendly to button presses, so you can get away with it. I don't think you can get away with it in IaMP though, the key presses are more strict.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #686 on: November 17, 2012, 11:31:15 AM »
Mouku can be a fast, but light attacker.

Kaguya can be a slow, yet powerful attacker.
Make Kaguya slow but with fast attacks, and Mokou fast but with slow attacks... like Captain Falcon. :V

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #687 on: November 17, 2012, 01:30:33 PM »
The only way I see Kaguya being used is with a heap of projectile attacks. TBH, I don't need another Yuyuko. It seriously gets on people's nerves when someone stays in the corner and does nothing but spam butterfly flurries at you. :V But anyway, she was originally slated to appear in UNL, so they must already have something to work off of. Same for Mokou.
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #688 on: November 17, 2012, 03:38:30 PM »
Kaguya can be Charlotte and just order minions to attack. Then when you think you've won
Spoiler:
Eirin comes out to gank you

For some reason i'm picturing that happening exactly how that did in PMMM.

And i can't stop laughing.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #689 on: November 17, 2012, 09:10:10 PM »
TBH, I don't need another Yuyuko. It seriously gets on people's nerves when someone stays in the corner and does nothing but spam butterfly flurries at you.

Even worse; A Patchouli who does NOTHING but spam C over and over and over again. Doesn't work? 6C, 6C, 6C, 6C...