Justice Juice Mafia Thread I (NIGHT 3)

[Polaris]

Wow I feel stupid. I overlooked the part where it was made very clear why you changed your vote >_> <_<

Maybe I should go to sleep too.

[Kilgamayan]

Relinking the post where Sky Paladin votes for Dormio because somehow I managed to link to the RPG index in that post instead. Whoops!

[Polaris]

As for my own opinion on Serela, I'm somewhat annoyed because on one hand, we're tied together quite uselessly by role, yet on the other hand, Serela's play is just kind of poor.  As much as I'd like to think Serela is town, there is still the possibility that he is scum, so....

In the end I'm just being inconclusive. Sorry guys!

[DNAbc]

Half an hour of internet on computer. Hope I can actually help with my views.

I am temporarily dropping the case on Shadoweh due to a lack of convincing crumbs to actually lynch him. Which everyone had pointed out.

This doesn't mean I stop trusting my guts, having someone to jump out and defend you despite the person in question has not even made a response is pretty scummy, plus, the situation back then was basically me telling everyone to drop the wagon temporarily and give shadoweh time to response, having that cut off by someone else (cheez) is outright weird. Paranoid scum can explain that in the form of wanting to dispell more suspiction from forming round his scumpal when it is still so early with an apparant lack of material.
----------------------------------
In a nutshell, he's accusing me on the lack of more solid edvidence on the friggin start of D1 while denying what little edvidence I have as ''misinterpretion''?  And he just keeps poking at how he ''slight suspects'', ''rather suspects'' someone someone. Yet never bothered to actually vote to show a clear stance, until being reminded of that anyway. Then up until this point, he abruptly swapped modes and started voting generously. This drastic change on demand reads scum good enough.

Shadoweh never bothered to actually submit more information as well ever since suspicion around him is somewhat lifed.

------------------
And back to my policy of d1 scumhunting.
I guess some people are confused on why we should lynch nulls when we could.

Null reads are most likely town power roles
Right need to off now.

So basically this is the most acceptable time period to mislynch.
We should utilize this oppoturnity and clear out the nulls so town power roles can target the ones most suspcious.

comp queue seeya

[Polaris]

Well I personally think we should lynch the scum.

[DNAbc]

Right I managed to get in a comp again.

I mean null reads are most likely targets of town power roles.

So basically we can figure out which side the obvscum/obvtown actually swing just by communication. If they are actively contributing it is easy to differ and seprate the one from another by pure logic and analyzing their material.
And they cannot even choose to stay silent for their post times can and will give them away, forcing actual scum who falls in the ''obvious'' category to build upon more and more lies until eventuallly the fallacy will be so huge there's no doubt on who to lynch.

Null reads alone can toy with town psychology by just not posting or with minimal material. This gets even worse when scum keeps killing off the obvtown and leave us to deal with the nulls. Assume nulls are town, they simply cannot contribute and we don't know if to trust them. Assume nulls are scum, they can and will take up the leading role and spam all the wrong reads to make everyone follow. Basically if we start good by dwindling the suspicion pool it will help us later on.

Even if its a misfire we can deal with that if its now. imo to win we must at least mark out people whom we can trust. More the better. This is the entire reason why being suspcious and unable to either clarify worth more of a lynch than outright ''well i feel him scummy lets lynch him lol'' on d1.

I seriously do not believe either validon nor serela wagon will be scum. If anyone is actually to have a solid scumread from me its cheez. But his material is helping us atm, and I doubt if I have enough time to analyze more of his case now.

That said, I fully support lynching Serela, claim is weird and his way of sidetracking from what's the important thing (reads) in his posts goes :V . Scummier vibe.

##Vote Serela

And please remark how shadoweh has yet to make a sound and logical reply concerning his reads.

Fine session up anyway.

More later.

[DNAbc]

And this is a public apology to my lame posts before and after. If I were to contribute substantial material to this game it is necessary that I sacrifice a portion of its readability for efficiency. To abuse this and accuse someone as scum simply because their situation is simply not optimal for standbying 24/7 while triplechecking each and every post makes you an irritating person or irritating scum, with the latter being what I will assume on.

Yes in a nutshell I am frustrated over how obvscums just wagon on me and I am incapable of retailating asap due to actual technical difficulties in real life.


To compensate for your time I will at least state my read.

Null: polaris, kilga, serela, sb, px
somewhere inbetween; dormio, shadoweh
Obv: Cheez, Validon, me

These people are whom I have the strongest impression on and can recall from memory. Generally this process is helpful to identify nulls to cop as imho the most valuable information is mod info because reads will and always be off and biased. Therefore I find it suitable, although perhaps rage inducing to some that I keep pressing them for info. We need to see the wagon flip and see the people the flipped said wagon and deduce whos town whos scum, this also attributes to my so-called ''unpleasant attitude''  gamewise. Not that I care too much as long as it doesn't cause us to mislynch, we are playing to win.

There, all crumbs to my thought process, conclusion; fullclaim now serela.

[Shadoweh]

I would say something about how restricted voting is probably town but I'm the one who made a scum a Priest for that reason >.>
Maybe they're third party lovers and we should lynch them right away.
I'm not exactly beng super townie confirmed active but tbh I don't feel like taking my vote off of Darkninja, I'm not getting the huggie my friendo feelings I had last game.
Kilga, if you're scum it's okay if you tell me. It's not like I have vigs or the ability to bus kills onto you or anything. :>

[BT]

Votecount 1.5

Serela (3): Dormio, Kilgamayan, Darkninjaabc
Validon (2): Polaris, SB, Cheez8
PX (1): CF7
SB (1): PX
Darkninjaabc (1): Shadoweh
Dormio (1): Sky_Paladin, Serela

Not Voting (1): Validon98

It's 7 votes to lynch. Deadline in 46 hours.
(Countdown)

CF7 - 652
PX - 598
Polaris - 487
Shadoweh - 452
Everyone else - 400

[DNAbc]

Its not that we don't lynch the scum, but if we are only to base the lynch off our combined reads but no flips and roles and whatever. It is most likely going to be detrimental to town. Usually the more voiceful bunch will get the wagon in because more time exposed to the same argument every single time eventually twists town opinoin; its also how our brain works: by displacing memory. We are now allowed to wait for flips and night actions, let's just cut down on the nulls by communication and leave the rest to power roles.

And my vote on Serela is genuinely because I believe that he's scummy. To have voting restricted in a 12p setup? This means that we have only 8 townvotes, assuming theres three scums. I can hardly imagine he to be town less he has some bastardly powerful duo ability. Which he needs to clarify less we just lynch him. End of story.

[DNAbc]

btw my library session is up so long posts from me ends here. You might want to squeeze in something fast in like five minutes else you will have to endure a short and  brief reply on phone.

[Shadoweh]

And my vote on Serela is genuinely because I believe that he's scummy. To have voting restricted in a 12p setup? This means that we have only 8 townvotes, assuming theres three scums. I can hardly imagine he to be town less he has some bastardly powerful duo ability. Which he needs to clarify less we just lynch him. End of story.

So you think having restricted vote makes him scum despite how scum would be more affected by this? He said both votes count, so we still have 9 votes in theory. We don't need him to claim whether he's uber or not. That's something the scum should be worried about.

[CF7]

Sorryб i was too busy convincing everyone that i'm a townie while playing SK in other game. It's night there atm, so you have my undivided attention.

CF7,  if you think that Dormio is scummy for spamposting, why are you not voting him for it?

Because it's D1. And we have "post a lot of stuff or get out" rule. So for now it's ok.

Validon's #72
Lots of somewhat empty accusations while at the same time

Of course, I'm not ready to vote on any of these. D1 has always been a "take things with a grain of salt" thing for me, seeing as it always seems we manage to lynch town instead of scum D1 over something silly or that appears to be scummy but really isn't.
##Unvote
Until there's more content to parse that's preferably not RVS-related stuff, I won't vote for anyone.

Blank unvote for the it's too early too vote seriously reason.. I'd say scummy.

Everything always happens while I'm asleep, zzz.  I guess it's my fault for living in the wrong hemisphere. 

You have no idea.

SO LETS GO WITH THE JOKE VOTES! 
I missed out on lynching CF7 last game so I want to get a shot this time. 
##unvote
## vote CF7

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy inside?

On a related note, I totally pushed for Shadoweh's death and I never got to kill them last game :/  Life is full of missed opportunities.  Maybe I should vote for Shadoweh instead.  Choices, choices.  But in my deepest darkest heart of hearts, I have to admit I don't have a reading either way and I'm just screwing around.  Sigh.

And this.
So. Joke vote, something about missing opportunities about previous game and self-confirmed "screwing around".
Not very townish.

Hm. Kilgamayan pointed the same thing about Validon.

Then Validon's #101
Somehow he didn't say anything useful again and the whole post is pretty much just water. And not voting anyone.

Tbh, i'm not sure why people voting Serela, at least i don't read his posts as scummy. Also can someone point to me where it says that Serela confirms his voting restriction aside from votecounts?

And after reading Darkie i kind of understand people about my horrible logic. Because i'm not sure what he's talking about in his 153, 155 and 156.

So all in all. I thing i'll vote Sky_Paladin or Validon at this point after i reread.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I'm back. Kind of. Maybe.
Whatever.

dude do you find that guy easy to read?

Hell no. But I'm not the one making a case against him.
As far as I'm concerned, I think he's trying pretty hard so it's all like whatever.

Anyway. There isn't really much more for me to say about Serela at this point so instead I'll look at some other stuff I guess.
Like, for example, CF7 who hasn't really done much of anything.
The post above mine (#162) is basically CF7's first post of the game and it does little more than mimic the words of others while setting him up to join the Validon wagon.
At least there's something about Sky Palladium in there.

As for the actual topic of Validon, I don't think I could really bring up anything that hasn't already been mentioned by everyone else and their mothers.

I guess I'll try to make another post soon or something but I'm feeling kind of unwell today.

Also, I was super confused about the bars for a while until I managed to figure out that 400 words was added every 24 hours instead of 72 after like 5 rereadings of the rules.

[CF7]

Well beginning of the D1 was "people posting random shit about vegetables and fruits" and then nothing were happening for some time and i went to sleep. So yeah that was my first serious post.
Also i typed my post as i read the thread, there's nothing weird about my reactions being similar to others.

[SB]

SB: Couldn't tell you why. I guess it's because his posts seem... well, very self-assured, if I'm being perfectly honest. Not sure why that would be something I distrust, except maybe it makes me feel like people are being played or distracted from certain parts of arguments because of it. I can't really support this very well though which is a sign that SB is very good at being scum and we should lynch him now! That, or I'm barking up the wrong tree entirely.

Dark: I want to think he's a misguided townie but he just doesn't stop.

How does my confidence distract people from arguments exactly?

What makes you think misguided townie?

I like how multiple people have fewer votes than names attached. FOR SCIENCE! ##Unvote, ##Vote: Kilgamayan

SB are you Carthrat in disguise ?_?

Was this just to test the votals?

Manix = a guy on SF who also has a Kirigiri avatar and makes a lot of short posts in succession, like Polly did.

Cheez is not null anymore, and my policy is to lynch nulls.

What? This doesn't make any sense. We don't even know if we have a Cop or a Vig or whatever to clean up the scummy people, for all we know our PRs could be made up of like, Doc and Empowerer or some stupid shit like that. We lynch scummy people to lynch the mafia, and so that the mafia has a harder time at *YLO, even if they flip town.

Note that my stance has never changed but just that there's no imminient risk of quickhammer I assume that its safe to Vote.

And guys you really want scum to  quickend d1 right.

Validon can very well be killed before he can retaliate so there.

I would rather lose a townie to a quickhammer if it means the scumteam out themselves for it. Why are you so conscious about a quickhammer anyway?

But I think I'd rather vote Dormio for his eagerness to vote me for noncontribution while I've stated I was about to make a post of it and then even showed some sign of apparently being in the middle of really getting it done.

This is a pretty bad vote reason and just looks like a thinly veiled OMGUS. The rest of the post is essentially spent on Serela talking about how he can't read Dark and nullreads. Same deal with Validon.

I think Serela/Polly being Maf/Maf is basically impossible, but Town/Maf or Town/Town are both possible so yeah. No use dwelling on it. Trying to game the setup probably won't work out well so yeah.

And back to my policy of d1 scumhunting.
I guess some people are confused on why we should lynch nulls when we could.

Null reads are most likely town power roles

i
what
you want us to lynch our PRs
ok

This doesn't mean I stop trusting my guts, having someone to jump out and defend you despite the person in question has not even made a response is pretty scummy, plus, the situation back then was basically me telling everyone to drop the wagon temporarily and give shadoweh time to response, having that cut off by someone else (cheez) is outright weird. Paranoid scum can explain that in the form of wanting to dispell more suspiction from forming round his scumpal when it is still so early with an apparant lack of material.

How does someone defending another player make the player they're defending scummy? Scum can buddy up to townies and townies can defend scum who they think are town. You're using this against Shadoweh when she has no control over what Cheez does and I don't like it.

I mean null reads are most likely targets of town power roles.

Null reads alone can toy with town psychology by just not posting or with minimal material.

Okay, no. The only type of role that would really consider targetting a nullread is an investigative role. The Doctor wants to be on his townreads. Theoretical Hooker wants to be on his scumreads. The vig wants to shoot scummy people. Inactives will get replaced or modkilled, there's no use dwelling on that now.

Vote is staying on Validon, I have no reason to see him as a townie right now.

[Kilgamayan]

Was this just to test the votals?

Pretty much. Then Serela claimed the voting thing (here, for CF7's reference) and that was that.

Darkninjalphabet: What about Serela's claim is "weird"? What makes it part of his voteworthiness?

[SB]

Right. I was kind of confused about it when I woke up, but it made sense when I was reading back through.

[DNAbc]

To shadow: i am questioning the entire validity of his claim. Therefore i am assuming t on the premises that he is lying.

To kilga: i find the claim unbelivable for its lack of information. I can never trust even my own analysis if they are baseless. Therefore i would do anything if it means drawing out reaction such that i can see the full picture. Far as i know, town  generally dont want to lynch actively posting people d1 for determining their alignment gets piss easy once game drags. Look for direct contradictions anf voting / posting history. Done.

For the sake of being convincing let me quote an example last game; i wonder how many o fyou recall that i attacked hw after he replaced in? I think it was along the lines of "your psychology is scummy itself". Surprise as he turns out to br scum.

R

[Serela]

But I'm not the one making a case against him.

Neither am I Dormio >_> Or does complete dismissal in "but anyway I have no idea how to read dark so, moving on" sound like I'm making a case why he's scum? I'm trying to say things at him in hopes he'll slowly get better!

Anyway, Darkie, stop hating me in all games forever because of claim shenanigans that aren't even true. People said you were going about it wrong last game, and you're going about it wrong this game.

Especially this game. My vote doesn't count. Polly's vote doesn't count. YOU CAN SEE THIS IN THE VOTECOUNT. Do you need me to prove that our votes do count when we use them together? We can't be scum using this as some kind of subterfuge unless the mod deemed it fit to actually give scum some wacked out role like this because you can't vote someone without your vote actually counting, normally.

I didn't fullclaim because why the fuck would I fullclaim? I claimed so people understand the -incredibly unusual and important fact- of two people's votes not functioning, and so no one gets caught up in trying to figure out why.

Anyway I literally just woke up so I didn't do much but skim the posts since I slept, yet.

[Serela]

Sadly I can't even vote Dark over this because last game proves he could very definitely be doing this as town.

[Serela]

How does someone defending another player make the player they're defending scummy? Scum can buddy up to townies and townies can defend scum who they think are town. You're using this against Shadoweh when she has no control over what Cheez does and I don't like it.

This so much

[Serela]

Also yes I'm stupid and forgot about SkyPaladin's post where he voted Dormio and then somehow missed it in my several relooks over the thread (because, as only like page 3 through half of page 5 mattered, I did several times)

gonna go have breakfast and stuff so that I stop making little blip posts repeatedly

[Serela]

3 through half of page 5 mattered, I did several times

through half of page 4*

[SB]

To shadow: i am questioning the entire validity of his claim. Therefore i am assuming t on the premises that he is lying.

It's displayed in the damn votals. It's pretty hard to not call that conclusive evidence. Moreover, what does Serela gain from fakeclaiming something like this? And since Polly's clearly in on this fakeclaim with him, do you think that he's scummy too?

Sadly I can't even vote Dark over this because last game proves he could very definitely be doing this as town.

Please no. You can't rely on meta for the sake of clearing people/ignoring their scumminess. Do you remember Town Mafia? Bad use of meta will cause town to lose games.

[DNAbc]

Fuck my post is lost damn the shitty back button

Basically sb i amtyping up a case onwhy you. Cheez and serela are scum

So sit there as i waste another 15 mimutes of my life doing exactly the same thing i just did

[Cheez8]

Sheesh.
Darkie, I "defended" Shadoweh because I stated I didn't agree with your point of view and you specifically asked me to explain why in detail.
Serela, dang it, you really sound like you're not town but your role makes it sound like there's not much else for you to be. Make up your mind (or just mess up more.)
Also, a town/mafia setup for your two roles would be pretty cool and I kind of hope that's the case but even then it's not like I'm getting much of a read on Polly yet.

How does my confidence distract people from arguments exactly?

What makes you think misguided townie?

Mostly by implying "the part of this post that I'm focusing on is what's important to focus on, not the rest of the stuff." Like I said though, I have no idea why you worry me. As far as I know you could be focusing on the right things for the right reasons.

Darkie proved in the last game how a townie can act like this on broken logic. I'm fully aware that situations tend to repeat themselves from game to game without regard to alignments, but even then, it's a possibility I can't seem to shake. (Couldn't shake it reading through the last game either, so it definitely goes beyond "he's acted like this earlier".)

Cut by 5 serelas and some other people but urgh nothing changed except Serela said more things that don't sound trustworthy

[DNAbc]

If you dont fullclaim you just stated out a fact which we would figure out at the end of d1. You yoursellf has been thrown with scum!dormio in the same fucking neighborhood and unless it says outright inyour pm you both are town it tells absolutely nothing about both your alignments. The thing that you arr actually bringing this up means that you are self concious of that your status is doubtfull. Sure by this logic polly might also be scum instead of you but why should we not lynch you who is running around telling us you arent scum becayse you said so? Wtf

Sb. In his wall post he went "its okay to lynch town if we out scum". This proc me to read him thoroughly over. The current situation and the oldness of the post you quote as reference and all thr associated things wrong with the statement "its ok to lynch town. You know full well a quickhammer can occur at l1, l2 and whatever while the only thing tracable is similar posting times. Basically you are never going to use this as ammo to lynch scum. Even if you resort ylto this argument it is still only going to be a small jab. Does that seriously justify a town wanting to lynch anothet town? No.

Then i came to analyze your posts. The majority of your so called contribution was basically nitpicking. You plant doubts which trail off to let us form ou rown conclusions with your directed questions with a dead end negative answer. Your stance is clear only  when you actually vote. I didnt notice whoever remarked you as being confident. But what i do persume from you is " stop being ao assertive and stereotyping people out". Inother words. Scum

Cheez is scum for reasons stated before but i didnt really have a read on others so its natural i accuse shadow to bring scum like sb on thrle table. Now fully convicnced this scumteam lovea bussing.

This is so annoying. Repeating what i typed.

[Serela]

If you dont fullclaim you just stated out a fact which we would figure out at the end of d1.

A.There's no reason town should need to worry about it for that long. You said it yourself; you'd figure it out at the end of d1. So why bother waiting until then when people are going to get distracted with it?
B.It wouldn't be as obvious as you might think it is to realize the condition for the unworking votes is simply "use them together". Obvious things are not so obvious when you have no idea what they are. Also, surprising everyone at the end of the d1 with one wagon going up by 2 votes instead of none isn't a good thing to do >_>

I literally do not understand. Are you saying it's scummy I decided to tell town why me and Polly's votes aren't working? Because clearly keeping it a secret for no reason is super townie?

You yoursellf has been thrown with scum!dormio in the same fucking neighborhood

wat
what are you even talking about

and unless it says outright inyour pm you both are town it tells absolutely nothing about both your alignments.

so why does it make me scum then (unless you're talking about the dormio neighborhood thing which I don't understand)

The thing that you arr actually bringing this up means that you are self concious of that your status is doubtfull. Sure by this logic polly might also be scum instead of you but why should we not lynch you who is running around telling us you arent scum becayse you said so? Wtf

>And since you claimed why your vote doesn't work this makes you scum, because you wanted town to be more informed and it was harmless to do so
>Also because you said you aren't scum this means you're scum


Considering my vote on Dormio is literally stupid I guess SB is right that I really shouldn't let meta hold me back this much.
##vote Darkie

[DNAbc]

Assertive. Though i have to clarify about my example was specifically from mirai nikki mafia. I was just catering to you to use that so you can perceive my view clearer because you yourself had firsthand experience in linked roles and its time to know that they dont imply anything.

And the entire reason i am asking you to fullclaim is because you read scummy enough for any lynch to go through its just that i want you to convince me otherwise. Fine if you dont appreciate theoffer.