Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[Deranged]

To be specific on what wasn't matching with the wiki...

Evil Sealing Circle: It said the PAR strength was 38.  It's actually 45 (Yeah I know big difference right 8D)
Earth Light Ray: After-use delay was 45%.  It's 50%
Master Spark: The damage formula was off.  According to the database, it's 700% MAG base, and rises by 1/10th (70% MAG and 5% T.MND) for every additional 160, up to a total of 1400%.  It was previously written as an 800% base and capping off at 1160 MP / 1600% MAG for some reason, probably because of the difference between what was written and what's actually going on with it (Ha ha, old chap! Overaccurate Translation)
Curse of Vlad Tepes: I believe it said it only boosted Remilia's stats by 40%, but it was actually a 60%.

Fairly minor things at the moment, but if I do dig up something significantly different from what was written, I'll be sure to notify you guys.

For reference, some of those are most likely changes that were made between ver2 and ver3. For example, the first two points about Evil Sealing Circle's PAR and Earthlight Ray's delay were actually accurate as of the omake.txt in ver2, but I presume changed somewhere along the line. There's been other minor changes as well, for example 25F boss now using Djinn Storm at the start of the battle, the Scourge/Divine Spirit Barrier/Armads/Flower Blade Kikiryusei droppers having their drop rate increased to 5% (but set back to 1.5% after you get one to drop ffffffff), and so on, so they might actually just be outdated information rather than typos or mistakes. Heck, the new database itself also has some minor typos;

Spoiler:

Yukari's

third and fourth spellcard explanations are switched, for example.

Also, I've finished translating about 90% of the database, and I'm pretty sure I can finish the rest by tomorrow, so you might want to wait till then if it'll make any slogging through the database a li'l easier.

[Bananamatic]

There's been other minor changes as well, for example 25F boss now using Djinn Storm at the start of the battle

never happened to me

[Garlyle]

Hmm.

I wasn't aware you were translating the database, but I'm totally cool with waiting on it a bit.  That'll also make adding stuff to the wiki much faster for bosses and all that.

[Deranged]

never happened to me

If you were playing 3.01 at that time, then all I can say is that maybe this database isn't as accurate as people think it is.

[Ghaleon]

Kind of old news, but when Ban was tro. Err posting about the music, I must say I have to agree, so far, up to floor 13 (I stopped at that floor cuz I hate its GUTS, must muster the drive to finish!) the music in the original game is better. I love my touhou remix music but Touhou laby's original stuff wasn't no slouch. The ONLY new song I like more than the original so far is the mook boss one.

edit: How could I forget, 12f boss too. I love her theme >=), one of my faves

[Parallaxal]

It's true, though, that I do prefer the original themes to 16F and 18F bosses than the new remixes of their themes.

At least the game gives you the option of changing it up whenever you want.

[Bananamatic]

If you were playing 3.01 at that time, then all I can say is that maybe this database isn't as accurate as people think it is.

yeah, 3.01
started with plasma touch
never used djinn storm

[Esoterica]

Kind of old news, but when Ban was tro. Err posting about the music, I must say I have to agree, so far, up to floor 13 (I stopped at that floor cuz I hate its GUTS, must muster the drive to finish!) the music in the original game is better. I love my touhou remix music but Touhou laby's original stuff wasn't no slouch. The ONLY new song I like more than the original so far is the mook boss one.

edit: How could I forget, 12f boss too. I love her theme >=), one of my faves

The new second random battle theme's pretty great imo.  Then again, I love Sleepless Night, so yeah. :V

Also like 18F's new boss theme more than the original.  Haven't heard 16F, but I'm pretty sure the original's better in that case.

[Parallaxal]

Also like 18F's new boss theme more than the original.  Haven't heard 16F, but I'm pretty sure the original's better in that case.

Here's the original.

And here's the new theme.

[Esoterica]

Here's the original.

And here's the new theme.

Not even remotely close to being better.

[Bananamatic]

18F theme
suits the person you are battling much more than a half assed remix of the last word theme which we are sick of

seriously, the original kicks zun's music in the balls

[Ghaleon]

18F theme
suits the person you are battling much more than a half assed remix of the last word theme which we are sick of

seriously, the original kicks zun's music in the balls

I can respect that opinion. But you really should be aware that this IS a Touhou fanboard.

Anyway I myself constantly consider just HOW good Zun's music is. It's hard to say because I have no shame in admitting I like many remixes more than the originals. However who has more credit to the music, Zun for making the original, or the remixer? I would have to say Zun and I'm sure many people would agree, but how much more? Clearly not all.

Anyway the instrumentation and music style of Touhou Labyrinth if more to my tastes than Zun's music, it's kinda metal-esque, while Zun's music can hardly even be called rock-esque. It's not a fair comparison for someone like me. so, I try to compare what I think are some metal remixes using Zun's music as a reference. Some of my fave's include Myon myon, Saitama saisyu heiki (or however you spell it), etc. When comparing to that stuff, Touhou laby's music is not clearly better.

That's what I got to say >=)

[Bananamatic]

I can respect that opinion. But you really should be aware that this IS a Touhou fanboard.

That doesn't mean that everyone has to fanboy over zun's music
I find it average at best

back on topic: 30F grindwall is fucking awful

[Garlyle]

I like the Special Disk bgms for the non-dungeon music, and a bit to vary up the random battle music, but I tend to far favour the original boss tracks at the moment.  The remixes of the tracks just... aren't that great for what they're being used for, feel a little too generic... also the old stuff has grown on me.

[Fishin]

I like the new formulas.  Also, Silent Selene's new formula doesn't match the old one.

back on topic: 30F grindwall is fucking awful

why do it then?

I mean, on the main game, I could see why you'd want to keep things legit since most of the difficulty jumps aren't too bad, but some of the stuff in plus disc is just silly.  I'm only on 27F right now but after seeing the recommended level for the final boss it just seems like a massive waste of time to grind that much.

[Bananamatic]

28 and 29 have increased trash level but I can take them with a lv300 Reimu

30 is an extreme jump from 29 and the bosses require much higher levels

[Ghaleon]

Also, Silent Selene's new formula doesn't match the old one.

The old one on the wiki was incorrect. It said T.MND/2, but in reality it was T.MND/4, that's probably why.

[Garlyle]

I like the new formulas.  Also, Silent Selene's new formula doesn't match the old one.

That's odd.  So it doesn't.

But with that said, the current formula is definitely how I remembered it - as halfing only half the normal T.MND involved - despite the fact that I can't find it written as such anywhere in the article's history.

...I'm confused as hell now.

[Serela]

Silent Selene uses MND/4

although I'm fairly sure the wiki never actually said that because people are derps

[Ghaleon]

It's made pretty obvious it's /4 when you can damage stuff like helbelmares with it whilst royal flare still does 0.

[Bananamatic]

so how high will I need to grind

high 300s are enough for 30F, 420 or so for SoC, 550 for Winner? or more?

[Ghaleon]

I don't remember what I was when I pawnt soc. But Reimu 400 sounds about right. You should require less depending on how many more skill levels you get from selling items, and for having a more efficient party. My first playthru's party was not really designed for efficiency at all.

[Bananamatic]

Depends on where you grind and the skill point/exp ratio.

Doing it up to 30F on 27F will give you a shitload of skill levels. Gotta check the V3 rates.

Also, 27F drops Gurthang.

[Serela]

Also, 27F drops Gurthang.

and ZUN hats

procrastinating on 13F, then I'll get going again

[Bananamatic]

and ZUN hats

procrastinating on 13F, then I'll get going again

I wish somebody traslated the database :V

[trancehime]

I started grinding 30F around high 300s going 400s.

Each V3 fight gives around 1m/1m S.EXP and EXP, provided you can defeat V3s in under a minute, grinding becomes very fast at an even faster rate. Once you start raking in SoC/Hiba x2/Winner chain fights, grinding becomes even more faster than 30F was, because those fights are repeatable. I don't know why you'd want to fight them more than once though unless you want more than one of their drops.

[Bananamatic]

Seeing how I have encounters every step+no animations...shouldn't the grinding be even faster?
10m exp at F27 doesn't take long at all.

Oh, and should I just dump some chars? Chars like Patchy has seemed to lose usefulness...
From my final 12...
Reimu - keeping
Marisa - seems like 1 shot and she's done, other sweepers do close to her damage
18F - good buff, decent damage, can take hits, keeping
16F - Tanking, defence buff, additional turns, probably keeping
Kaguya - Sweeps trash with ease, really good as a supporter for one sweeper(going for tank build)
Ran - top tier buffs, keeping
Patchy - Seems weaker than other sweepers. dumping
Suwako - Elemental...that's what hurts her. Shiki and Nitori do the same stuff without elements and with more defense.
Shiki & Nitori - yes goddamnit
China - solid wall, keeping...worth using by now though? from what I've seen, once you get to winner the characters don't differ all that much, wouldn't 16F/18F do the same job? keeping for SoC, then dumping
Youmu - high damage, really low mdef, low SP even at lv300...keep or ditch? not sure, that would give me only 2 sweepers...but do I really need more?

[Parallaxal]

I wish somebody traslated the database :V

I'm working on filling in the English wikia's Bestiary page that someone started, although it'll be a while before I get that far...only finished floor 9 so far.

[Garlyle]

I wish somebody traslated the database :V

Wait a day or two, it's almost done apparently.

[Bananamatic]

Reisen V3 is easy, Suwako V3 is loleasy(got an Arturos, free 1,2m skill exp)
Yuka seems easy enough except for the fact that she regenerates and master spark kicked my ass with no SP left

Everything seems to be about speed...should I just concentrate on that? Also, my affinities are only 20-30...boosting them to 50 shouldn't prove too costly, right?