First. What do I win?The Game.
+2 con, -2 cha! Just what's needed in a game of wits!
+2 con, -2 cha! Just what's needed in a game of wits!
First. What do I win?
The Game.god dammit Zakeri
Not this one, just "The" one.
##Vote: FallenAngeMOnly the second time around. :V
Affinity was scum in the game played for him.
Reasoning:;_;
15% voting logic, if taken to the logical extreme, means two L-1 bandwagons on people with about an 72-79% chance each of being town.
85% this joke isn't funny.
That joke was like a child to me :<I've called child services.
Let us begin.What a wonderful first pos-- oh, wait, you misspelt 'skies'.
:words:
Part of me wonders if Kilgamayan is trying to set up a guilt trap for after game when we all lynch him for playing badly.
What a wonderful first pos-- oh, wait, you misspelt 'skies'.
##Vote: Kefit
I do odd things at night time. Could be worse
My cat asks if you are serious about this.
Man I ain't guilt-trippin' no one, if MotK Mafier gets that bad I'll just abandon you all for the DL instead 8)That's good to know.
Did someone just edit my last post? I'm 99% certain that the second line did not contain that many cats originally.
I'm curious as to what will happen, since it's still day 1 and only 3 votes on Kilga now, need something to get something more serious going.
My cat now thinks Kilga is just being a retard. (Actually that's Pesco's idea but whatever)So Kilga is allowed to be a retard, and Zak isn't? I want you to explain to me why Zak's action is scummy.
Only 3 votes is L-5 and what i meant is that sitting at L-5 on day 1 like this isn't going to lead to a lynch very quickly.
So Kilga is allowed to be a retard, and Zak isn't? I want you to explain to me why Zak's action is scummy.
Benny however is clearly trying to get us into the Quicklynch mentality. Besides, I disagree that Kilga's defense post was being over-reactive. Especially since it was prompted by Excal and I, and it answered everything I wanted to know about what he was doing.
You know, we don't need a hammer to get a lynch in this game, so absolute vote counts aren't terribly important save for awareness of the hammer threat. Furthermore, your vote for Kilga for what seem to be half-hearted reasons based off of RVS does nothing but move him into a three way tie with Rat and Zak, with each at three votes. If you were concerned about Kilga "only" having three votes, then why didn't you place a fourth vote on Rat or Zak instead?
Basically, I'm seeing a disconnect between your actions and your expressed concerns. That's enough to get a real vote from me, for now.
##Unvote: FAV
##Vote: Benny1
Peskau has given me enough reason to stop bothering to ask. Declaring Zak to be scum for non-scummy mistakes earns my vote.
Benny seems to have absolutely no idea how RVS works. 'Hey, people aren't close to getting lynched when we're 24 hours in, this is somehow bad!' Still think Pesco's cat isn't getting the attention she deserves and her owner's trying too hard to get away on his usual meta, though.
I'm honestly still a little confused by Kilga's "meta-post" post and so on, and am not sure if I should be taking that remotely seriously or not.
A single vote is not huge until you're L-1, but as I was just trying to elicit a reaction from Kilga rather than get him lynched, I feel going anywhere past L-4 would be silly and not the proper action.If a single vote doesn't matter unless you're at the brink of a lynch, why is L-4 dangerous? Why are you so scared of putting serious pressure on someone when that's pretty much the only way out of the RVS?
Pesco's cat not even trying to push his case in any way makes me think that he was just trying to look like he's doing something when he voted Zak. Then he abandons it completely for Benny, who got 3 votes before hand. Useless cases! Bandwagonning!
If a single vote doesn't matter unless you're at the brink of a lynch, why is L-4 dangerous? Why are you so scared of putting serious pressure on someone when that's pretty much the only way out of the RVS?
Rou's right. When you added the "I did not want to put them to L-4 because I feel that is too much like a quicklynch" part in, it sounds like you're trying too hard to distance yourself from the idea of encouraging quicklynching. Pretty much anything short of L-1 is safe enough from quicklynching, especially in a game with an eight-vote majority. Vote stands.
My cat thinks this is good enough to start being serious.
Alright. I THINK we're getting more serious now
...are we still in the RVS? I'm not sure right now.Sorry about the multi-quote like this, but I'd say that Rou is doing something pretty strange here. Not enough for me to cast a vote though. It is however, deserving of a FoS.
Either way, RVS has ended analyze plz.Yay triple.
Rou, L-4 was dangerous in my head because of misconceptions about the way Mafia works and how to get out of the RVS. I cannot say it any better than that.I'm going to take you on your word for this one for now, mainly because I've been guilty of this myself as Town and I'm not sure how experienced you are. ##Unvote
HW has yet to contribute to RVS at allWhat? I made a couple jokevotes.
Baity: I wasn't online since Zak's post voting me. I have school, derp.Whoops, forgot that you were from SoCal (or somewhere abouts) which is something like 6-7 hours ahead of my time.
Real post coming soon possibly. Kinda tied up atm.
Also, did Rou just resort to voting for a lurker after saying I was scum?Am I not allowed to find the fact that two players who are normally contributive and useful have decided to offer absolutely nothing scummy enough to place a vote on? I felt Carth needed to get prodded in particular because while he hadn't lurked quite like some other players, what he's said has been inherently useless and he hasn't got the same attention Kilga did for it.
Am I not allowed to find the fact that two players who are normally contributive and useful have decided to offer absolutely nothing scummy enough to place a vote on? I felt Carth needed to get prodded in particular because while he hadn't lurked quite like some other players, what he's said has been inherently useless and he hasn't got the same attention Kilga did for it.
We didn't press the lurkers hard enough in Mafioso Mafia, and look what happened there. >_>
What we are looking for there is not 'oh someone hasn't posted since RVS' but 'someone has been consistently quiet and useless when pressed'.But of course we need to press first before we can determine that, and that's exactly what that vote was for - so you had to emerge and produce and there was no excuse like 'I was sleeping' to sit back and do nothing. A message to the lurkers to show that we really are watching for once. And besides that, the interaction between you two sort of rubbed me the wrong way, but since you've posted I'll gladly let it slide. ##Unvote
"What Kefit said, plus [terrible reason that no one has ever heard of]."Except no, people brought up that reason multiple times I'm p. sure. Also I like how you're clearing Zak based on somebody else clearing him based on meta. Also note that Excal didn't even play last game (and I doubt he'd want to read that trainwreck) so I'm not sure what you expect.
Except no, people brought up that reason multiple times I'm p. sure. Also I like how you're clearing Zak based on somebody else clearing him based on meta. Also note that Excal didn't even play last game (and I doubt he'd want to read that trainwreck) so I'm not sure what you expect.But when they brought up that reason, weren't they all like "I've never heard of this and how the hell would it even work"? Maybe I should read those posts again.
Baity #93: textFirst off, my 103 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330093#msg330093) says that I made a mistake in the form of a timezone miscalculation. There's also a (unintentional most likely due to some obscure wording on my part) misrep I'm thinking stemming from my post with what I think appears to be coming from this line:
Well, now that the vote has changed (or should have changed; forgetting to unvote before you recast your vote, people?)
104 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330094#msg330094). Voting to lynch somebody because of what happened in RVS is pretty... bad in my opinion.
>unless Huh what and Roukan were scumpartners or something like that
:scumpairconjecture: before flips.
What DOES bother me is that Benny pushed for quicklynch and then placed a vote that wouldn't accomplish this goal in the same post. His actions don't reflect his words.
Kilga's bit of defense did seem a little bit big for day 1, well, lolvotes. I figured he was just lollin' but man, changing your random votes so many times is pretty bizarre, I would think..
##Unvote
##Vote: Kilgamayan
I'm curious as to what will happen, since it's still day 1 and only 3 votes on Kilga now, need something to get something more serious going.
Also Pesco, yes, I'm not totally satisfied by your vote, though Zakeri's line was... odd, what are you trying to get out of Zakeri, anyways?
... Okay, who has been playing with the filters?
Admittedly, the reason on voting Zakeri isn't bad, but it's also exactly what Zak did last game, where he flipped Town. And according to Pesco (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330088#msg330088), this seems to be average Zakeri play.
Clarification and explanation.Ah, thanks for that; (hopefully!) I can see what you're referring to now. So in this case, the misrep in this case would be me taking a 'non-serious' statement as a 'completely serious' statement? Eww. Retracting that reasoning from my current case. Well, I don't think there's anything else left to add to the case at this point, at least from what I'm seeing at the moment.
Kilga: Truth be told, I'm trying to break out of my lurker shell and contribute during the early stages of the game. And what do I get for that? I get called a useless sack of meat whose efforts have been worse than worthless. I'm really trying here, and I'm actually quite upset to be slammed with such strong rhetoric for it.This is...pretty blatant AtE. And pressure-voting/calling for activity is hardly the best way to contribute.
About the Benny case: I think Rat hit the nail on the head. I'm seeing something in Benny's post that others do not.I...I can't come up with an intelligent response to this. This is as bad as Pesco's FPMH nonsense and 'Zak isn't scummy for the reasons you guys are giving BUT HE'S OBVSCUM BASED ON THIS ONE PIECE OF FLUFF'. It's clearing yourself on the point of 'I'm somehow more attentive than the rest of you in a form that I can't even put usefully into words'.
(principally for his useage of the word "only" there - seems to suggest a quicklynch mentality as Kefit suggested)Besides the fact that Alice is agreeing with the whole quicklynch mentality point, he's attributed it to Kefit rather than Excal. Not enough to vote him over at the moment, but I think it's worth keeping in mind.
Vi #57: Why should more people be voting him? Because he was being defensive? <_<Yes! Partially. Overreacting to votes against you is scummy from my POV and Kilga?s #48 after 2 ED1 votes was definitely worth pursuing further. Also, see bandwagoning comments above.
Meta is bad because, on its own, it's inherently unreliable, principally because one can change one's meta. Thus a player could play to his Town-meta when he is Scum and then laugh his ass off as any player who principally used meta is calling him a Townie instead of actually attempting to correctly figure out his alignment.
I still don't think he's as Townie as a lot of people think he is - his earlier mixup with the vote on Benny1 doesn't endear Zakeri to me in the slightest, and since then he's hardly gotten better, but considering he's done the exact same thing as Town in several other games on this site, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. For now. Provided that he improves, and fast.Meta is bad because it?s unreliable and scum can easily play to their town meta, but you?re willing to give Zak the benefit of the doubt because his actions are in keeping with his town meta of being a derpsicle? Explain please.
I did not put a vote on Zakeri or Pesco because I did not want to put them to L-4 because I feel that is too much like a quicklynch and I was simply not aware what i was doing appears to be me encouraging quicklyinching.
Alice is just being his usual town/scum Alice self, disappearing until stuff happens and then making good comments on it and oh hey wait.Meta is bad because it’s unreliable and scum can easily play to their town meta, but you’re willing to give Zak the benefit of the doubt because his actions are in keeping with his town meta of being a derpsicle? Explain please.His Town meta is enough to make me delay voting him in favour of Pesco, for now. Both are bad, Pesco is slightly worse at the moment in my eyes, I'd be perfectly fine with voting Zakeri if the Pesco lynch cannot happen, and if Pesco didn't exist at the moment in this game, I'd be voting Zakeri. Putting it simply, it is unreliable, it's just reliable enough to justify me delaying a lynch of him a day (barring him getting better) when faced with multiple people I find to be rather...bad...on today's given day phase.
Actually I'm just now noticing that FAV mentions that ED1 can be useful by citing a previous instance where she used joke vote patterns against someone - and then blasts Zakeri for using joke vote patterns against someone. Well! Willing to vote FAV today if necessary to avoid a lynch I don't like (Benny if that train resurfaces, Zakeri, maybe Pesco but I'm still undecided there), suspicions are a combination of hypocrisy, cheerleading the Kefit wagon while clinging to a hypocritical vote, lame excuses for bad/scummy play (seriously, appeal to MS of all places?) and the journalistic touch. Still happy with my Kefit vote, though.The relevant votes in that game actually weren't in the jokevote phase, they were actually somewhat late into D1 and it was mostly an Unvote without a Revote slapped onto someone else. That being said, the hypocricy charge really does bother me somewhat. At the same time this post ALSO bothers me, principally because that post really isn't terribly padded out ("half IIoA" still means that your post is half information), and because Hayles in Cthulhu Mafia used the exact same accusation against Peyton Hadley D1 there, it was just as bad there as it is here, and he flipped Scum, while we're playing around with citing past cases as precedent for certain plays (I also think this, in general, is not a good thing, while not as unreliable as meta it could cause Town to fall into some traps). Also the fact that a good chunk of your case is at least somewhat dependent on Kefit being Scum - but you do keep your vote on him so that's a plus.
I...I can't come up with an intelligent response to this. This is as bad as Pesco's FPMH nonsense and 'Zak isn't scummy for the reasons you guys are giving BUT HE'S OBVSCUM BASED ON THIS ONE PIECE OF FLUFF'. It's clearing yourself on the point of 'I'm somehow more attentive than the rest of you in a form that I can't even put usefully into words'.
Cut by Pesco: god damn it, I'll never be able to claim saying anything other than "I agree with X" at this rate.
Pesco seems to just be being Pesco. Despite playing in several games with this guy
(Ninja'd by said contribution, and I can't say I like his question to Neo - he's leading him on and almost answering the question for him. Scum mentoring?)Y'know, every time I hear this accusation, I always think that it's basically pathologically dumb because Scum could just--wait, Serp, are Scum allowed daytalk? It actually does not say in the rules. Or is this information that is not public, for once?
Neo: Would you say your vote on Excal is because he hasn't been scumhunting?Oh, I've got a question! Lets see here...
(Ninja'd by said contribution, and I can't say I like his question to Neo - he's leading him on and almost answering the question for him. Scum mentoring?)Alice pretty much answered this; unless scum can't daytalk, Pesco doing such a thing as scum mentoring would be pretty "what". Even after considering that it's Pesco we're talking about. I figure it's more of him questioning me about my vote simply to press more information out of me, and clarify my views.
First, I'll address this post.Let me fix that. "First, I'll make a hyperlink and forget to copypaste the link into it." The post I meant to link to was this one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330411#msg330411).
Y'know, every time I hear this accusation, I always think that it's basically pathologically dumb because Scum could just--wait, Serp, are Scum allowed daytalk? It actually does not say in the rules. Or is this information that is not public, for once?
The relevant votes in that game actually weren't in the jokevote phase, they were actually somewhat late into D1 and it was mostly an Unvote without a Revote slapped onto someone else.
You've made your stance on the Zakeri wagon and I...disagree, but what's your stance on the Pesco wagon? I'm not seeing how you can justify not lynching him.
Actually I'm just now noticing that FAV mentions that ED1 can be useful by citing a previous instance where she used joke vote patterns against someone - and then blasts Zakeri for using joke vote patterns against someone.Misrep! See pages 1/2 here (http://molniya.ath.cx/MoTKMafia/WTC/). The stuff I was referring to was Kiro's serious #23, Rou's serious response to him and backtracking on his serious opinion on the RVS phase in #24, and Affinity's serious vote on Rou in #34. Also, the endgame decision I mentioned was Day 5 and ROU AND KIRO HAD FLIPPED SCUM! In contrast, the stuff Zak is using is #28 and #31 of this topic with no flips. Go and read those posts now. Go on. That's the main basis for his case on huh what.
FAV: You'll have to pardon me for laughing at the idea of "well MS does things this way so it isn't a scumtell". Rather than get into the "merits" of MS play I'll just say that I have never seen AtE from someone I held in high regard when they were town.Over at MS, they play Mafia(TM), a game in which players are divided up into town and scum! A scumtell is something that scum are (adjusting for numbers) decidedly more likely to do than town. After reading through 000s of MS games and some of their MD topics, I agree that AtE is done by town and scum in about the same proportions as there are of each faction in an average game. And after flicking through some of the recent games I missed here, I'm on the verge of saying that a comparably experienced MS town nowadays is generally as competent if not moreso than MoTK town! (I love you guys, but seriously, 7 town losses in a row? That assassin game doesn't count) So as far as I'm concerned, AtE is a null tell both there and here, and I don't see how it's scummy in the slightest to think this.
Also please journalize less. There is some meaningful content in your post, yes, but there is also a noticeable amount of event regurgitation, which serves no purpose other than to pad out post length.What? If you're referring to the occasional line like "Baity finally shows up in #93 and then FOS?s Rou for being weird while ignoring other weirdness", it links into whatever question I want to ask/point I want to make. Why is it scummy? Heck, how is it different in the ways you mentioned from just using quotes?
suspicions are a combination ofAwful case, and the fact that you're willing to lynch me over Zakeri on the above grounds boggles my sleep-deprived mind and makes me more inclined to vote you. Will zzz on this and consider its implications for my views on a Kefit lynch, but my gut likes it less. I'll re-read tomorrow, giving Rou/Pesco in particular some overdue love and attention.hypocrisy, cheerleading the Kefit wagon while clinging to ahypocriticalawesome vote,lame excuses for bad/scummy play (seriously, appeal to MS of all places?)and the journalistic touch [??]
Upon further thought/contemplation I think that Kefit is worse than Zakeri. Not sure if he's still worse than Pesco, though. Hm. Hmm. Vote still stands, for now.Alice! Why has your opinion of Kefit decreased and/or your opinion of Zakeri increased? I'm still not entirely happy with your meta is unreliable except that it's reliable enough to justify holding off on Zak, but I think you're saying in #143 that Pesco is worse irrespective of meta, which makes it sort of less/not bad.
The new enlightened me believes that voting/starting wagons on Day 1 for reactions isn?t scummy in the slightest, and in fact it?s something I now heartily endorse myself.Combine this with above paragraph.
Especially since it was prompted by Excal and ISo you remembered his one line post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg329588#msg329588)...and conveniently didn't see the much larger post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg329930#msg329930) with his case on Benny?
Misrep! See pages 1/2 here (http://molniya.ath.cx/MoTKMafia/WTC/). The stuff I was referring to was Kiro's serious #23, Rou's serious response to him and backtracking on his serious opinion on the RVS phase in #24, and Affinity's serious vote on Rou in #34. Also, the endgame decision I mentioned was Day 5 and ROU AND KIRO HAD FLIPPED SCUM! In contrast, the stuff Zak is using is #28 and #31 of this topic with no flips. Go and read those posts now. Go on. That's the main basis for his case on huh what.
Over at MS, they play Mafia(TM), a game in which players are divided up into town and scum! A scumtell is something that scum are (adjusting for numbers) decidedly more likely to do than town. After reading through 000s of MS games and some of their MD topics, I agree that AtE is done by town and scum in about the same proportions as there are of each faction in an average game. And after flicking through some of the recent games I missed here, I'm on the verge of saying that a comparably experienced MS town nowadays is generally as competent if not moreso than MoTK town! (I love you guys, but seriously, 7 town losses in a row? That assassin game doesn't count) So as far as I'm concerned, AtE is a null tell both there and here, and I don't see how it's scummy in the slightest to think this.
Also, Carth used AtE as town in WTC, a game which you modded, and I know you hold him in high regard all joking aside. LAL etc.
About the Benny case: I think Rat hit the nail on the head. I'm seeing something in Benny's post that others do not. This happens with me from time to time in various contexts, be it literature, movies, whatever. Generally, after reflection I realize that I am seeing something that's not there. I think this is one of those times. I'm essentially doing stringent word choice analysis on a colloquial post in a game played on an internet forum, which really doesn't make much sense. And yes, the rest of the case against Benny is bad, but those were never my reasons for voting in the first place.I'm not sure why nobody has called Kefit out for this yet, but this paragraph is almost entirely fluff. It could easily just be reduced to "Oh, my reasons for voting Benny sucked and weren't part of my actual case on him. Nevermind." Plus, he never exactly said what he reasons he was referring in the last sentence. Would like elaboration on that because he should not expect me to know what reasons he is talking about (and I don't). Kefit's jump off the Benny wagon in general is bad as well. It really just looks like he's taking back everything he said on the grounds that it was derpy and then insults it after his unvote just to make it look like he had nothing to do with the wagon, and I do not like this at all.
He pressed Zakeri regarding not following up with a vote, which anyone can do (and in fact I would expect to see from scum slightly more simply because of how easy and seemingly-pro-town it is),This is silly. Zak's lack of following up with a vote wasn't that great, but since anyone indeed call him out for it this should be a nulltell. The comment in parenthesis makes it seem like this was just a quip you made so your Kefit case would have a bit more content (even though it would have been fine without it).
I'm not sure why nobody has called Kefit out for this yet, but this paragraph is almost entirely fluff. It could easily just be reduced to "Oh, my reasons for voting Benny sucked and weren't part of my actual case on him. Nevermind." Plus, he never exactly said what he reasons he was referring in the last sentence. Would like elaboration on that because he should not expect me to know what reasons he is talking about (and I don't). Kefit's jump off the Benny wagon in general is bad as well. It really just looks like he's taking back everything he said on the grounds that it was derpy and then insults it after his unvote just to make it look like he had nothing to do with the wagon, and I do not like this at all.
VOTE COUNT - You'll Get Them Twice Daily and Be Grateful Editionyessir.
If you were concerned about Kilga "only" having three votes, then why didn't you place a fourth vote on Rat or Zak instead?Here, it seems like Kefit is trying to prey on Benny. Kefit implies that Benny's intention is to get a quicklynch, regardless of who it happens to be on. This is where I was confused when I said Benny was obviously just quicklynching. Then he keeps his vote on Benny by saying that his reason for it was due to his intention being a quicklynch, but not voting with that intention in mind. Compared to everyone else who just voted him for having the intention to quicklynch alone. That reasoning doesn't work either though, since it still presupposes that Benny's intention was to quicklynch in the first place. Kefit's been spending a majority of his recent posts defending himself.
Almost every post he's made so far is just jumping on bandwagons. He starts the wagon on BennyUh, starting a wagon isn't really a wagon jump.
Uh, starting a wagon isn't really a wagon jump.
139 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330514#msg330514). Ok, honestly I'm torn and I don't know whether or not this is deserving an unFoS, or retaining the FoS. In my opinion, I can agree with Rou on the 1st half of Kefit's reply (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330453#msg330453), but not the 2nd half as it seems to be pushing it a fair bit (as Kefit pointed out in defense in 145).Relevant amendments in underline. So only the part with regard to KefKef. Hope that clarifies anything that I accidentally made really obscure.
Alice pretty much answered this; unless scum can't daytalk, Pesco doing such a thing as scum mentoring would be pretty "what". Even after considering that it's Pesco we're talking about.
And on the fence about Kefit. I'll see where that goes as time rolls around.
Don't want to vote Zakeri at the moment. Not really thinking Excal is worth voting for at this point. Pesco... I've got no idea how I'm really supposed to react to. And then it feels like MSB hasn't posted in a long time, but that might just be the WoTs getting to me.
Right now, it looks like the lynch will go to Zakeri, Kefit, or Pesco. There certainly still could be a turn around, but I can't predict the next 18~ hours before I'm probably back.
Zakeri isn't looking great, but... my gut feeling is not to vote on him. Kefit doesn't look terrible to me, although not great either, and I don't know where I stand on him. Pesco looks the worst of the three to me, although I'm not used to his playing style in the first place. Still, out of those three... ##Vote:Pesco
ps I am now imagining "derp" as a cute sound or sentence suffix used by a moe anime character.Derp-moe~ <3
@Baity and FAV: I know my case on huh what is bad, but all cases based on RVS are bad. I just wanted to open up some more cases by that point rather than just continuing to bandwagon jump.I don't really know how to respond to this. I can't exactly hold it against you that you wanted to open more cases. Your case was my choice because I saw something in it first and I simply took the initiative. Basically, yes a whim. Read it, something caught my eye and I went away with it. Yeah, I'm bad at explaining this; I don't think I can put it any better than that.
My vote on Excal wasn't for him not scumhunting, but more of that he was placing votes on people using crappy-looking cases (Like Scum doing fake scumhunting, badly), one even consisting mostly of "What Kefit said". Excal's posts from after I went to bed, though, have satisfied me... for now, at least. ##Unvote. Still gonna keep an eye on him.
Don't want to vote Zakeri at the moment. Not really thinking Excal is worth voting for at this point. Pesco... I've got no idea how I'm really supposed to react to. And then it feels like MSB hasn't posted in a long time, but that might just be the WoTs getting to me.
God dammit, I really don't like throwing a vote on someone I'm not feeling to be pretty scummy, purely for the sake of using my vote. So I'm going to keep thinking about this, and pay close attention to posts in the next 4 hours; since FINALLY, I've got a good bit of the day to be playing Mafia.
Zakeri isn't looking great, but... my gut feeling is not to vote on him.Does this really sound like someone that's suspicious of those people? Compare the last sentence of the second quote with Communication Breakdance Zengar.
Firstly it's sort of late in the day to bring up another wagon,
While the legality of a Pesco/K4U hydra is questionable, the case is what we need to focus on.
@ Alice: Uh, why are you voting Kefit? You never actually said why. Unless I'm blind.Thought I was clear enough in my previous post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg331466#msg331466), but eh, might as well clearly restate:
VOTE COUNT - End of the Beginning EditionShould be:
Serela: I need to start paying attention to you. Do you have anything to say about people who don't have bandwagons on them?I haven't really noticed much to make me feel scumminess about any of them, save Excal. And the reason my last votepost was only paying attention to the three with bandwagons is because that vote was for making sure I actually HAVE a vote when the deadline comes around, in case I didn't get back in time; as I said, I can't predict the future, and I want my vote to actually be on someone where it might... y'know, do something.
Post of great fences. Tell us why you feel the way you do about each of these people. My cat just about called you 100% definite scum for this post.Yeah, it really is. Okay. Zakeri looks terrible, pretty much everyone is agreeing on that; it's also pretty much how he played last game, and according to you yourself, how he always plays. So yes, it's very suspicious, and yes, scummy normal playstyle is making this stupid.
*quotesnip*
Cool story. So why is your wagon-swing vote justified? I was tied with Kefit at 4, your vote makes me 5 and a clear leader.
@ Pesco, Neo and anyone else who's voiced it that I may have missed; why is Kilga town?He feels town to me. As I said, that list was just "ehh this is how I feel at the moment/not set in stone at all or anything".The scummy stuff he did (although I hear he did more scummy stuff recently, should check on these things) was early D1 when we're still in jokevotes and such, and things that early can be excused as messing around.
Okay, so regarding Neo. I will have a BSOD moment if he flips town, seriously. What first made me raise my eyebrow is that I forgot that he was playing. The second was when I went over his posts and it reminded me of my Kitten4u's play from last game. It's not exact, but it's close enough to make my kitten senses tingle.Pesco is really getting on my case. Last time, scum sure did that a whole lot, and I must say... I was a really good target! And I'm still a really good target whether it's scum trying to lynch me or town being scumhunters, so this is nulltell I guess. I feel like keeping it in mind though.
But then again, to quote the previous game, "he's Kilga and he's scary".That's out of context. Scum was saying that about Townie Kilga in the last game, who had nailed like 2 or so of us at the time we NKed him because of it. Possibly more, I forget :V
That's out of context. Scum was saying that about Townie Kilga in the last game, who had nailed like 2 or so of us at the time we NKed him because of it. Possibly more, I forget :VBut if he's so good at being Town, it would make sense if he can pretend to be the townie Kilgajesus when he's really scum, riiight? I guess. I dunno.
Baity seems to be chronically rushed in his rereads in that he never quite seems to keep up with discussion. By now he seems to have just about caught up, so he's not ringing any bells in particular with me.I was. Until now :|
I assume my vote on Excal is meaningless now, so I'll say now that I'd prefer a Kefit lynch over a Neo Serela. Kefit's previous actions show to me some ill intent towards others, which is slightly worse to me than Neo's self-hate.You could also, you know, use that vote on Kefit to end this Sudden Death. But I understand that you may want others to get to talk about this as well. Ninja:Same goes for Baity, but now I realize that it's a great idea to wait for Kefit to respond to this first.
It's not allowed for me/Kefit to take this opportunity to just vote the other, right? Since then it'd just be a battle of speed and self-values, which defeats the purpose of this.If you did that, we'd probably have our day two lynch set in stone, so yeah.
NS: Based on rules I'm sure you can voteswap.Well, I mean, I know I'm not scum (Not really roleclaiming, it's not like anyone would go "Oh yeah I'm not town" anyway, obviously), so going for Kefit means the lynch might be scum at least...
@Roukan: it makes sense. If Kefit voted for Serela or Serela voted for Kefit the other would look extremely suspicious the next day.How do you know both are town? :x If one turns out to be scum and gets lynched by the other, then I don't see how there would be any suspicious.
How do you know both are town? :x If one turns out to be scum and gets lynched by the other, then I don't see how there would be any suspicious.Making the painfully obvious assumption here that the lynchee flips Town, because if the lynchee flips Scum, then there is no point to that statement at all.
Neo, I'm not convinced by your reasoning for not hammering Kefit. It reads as scum trying not to be linked with a Townie flip by hammering them. Town!Neo KNOWS Neo is Town, and isn't as certain about Kefit, so what reason does Town!Neo have to hesitate?Because Town!Neo likes to be alive >:
IMO we should wait for Kefit to post before doing anythinhThis is the logical path of action. Not for me personally, since Kefit might just hammer me, but other then that.
Life came up very suddenly, need to tie down one or two things and then should be good after this. Apologies for disappearing.Good to hear. I'm looking forward to your early D2 posts, assuming I'm alive for them.
IMHO he's had enough time, considering deadline was an hour or so ago and he was online during this time. The only thing he and Serela even really *can* post anyway is a roleclaim.Oh yeah, roleclaims. I suppose it really can't hurt at this point. Akath Kestingstektob, Mason; although it's not a Mason in the usual term, but rather referring to working with Stone. I have a stone defense thingy that gives me One-Shot Bulletproof from NKs.
@Roukan: it makes sense. If Kefit voted for Serela or Serela voted for Kefit the other would look extremely suspicious the next day. That being said, at the same time, Serela, if he *is* Town, knows he is Town and that Kefit might not be Town, and thus should vote for Kefit. Hmm. I'm not sure where I stand on this, actually. Interesting.
(HW following him immediately afterward is also noted),MY NAME IS NOT SERELA
I had felt Zakeri wasn't very scummy and apparently that wasn't right!accurately describes my thoughts regarding the Zak flip.
Zakeri is iffy to me. It doesn't feel like he's actually been adding much, and I don't see why switching votes a lot in the RVS is bad enough to justify his vote on me. They're just jokevotes and should not matter in the long run. Not sure how I was active lurking either, as far as I can tell it's better to explain why I'm not posting than just not posting at all (and risking modkill at the same time). Anyway, aside from self defense: I'm not too sure if I'd consider Zak to actually be scummy yet, but I'm certainly gonna be keeping an eye on him.
Out of everybody, though, Pesko seems the worst. Not only has he been consistently unhelpful, but his cases on Zak and Benny were incredibly minimal as well as over silly reasons. Would like him to elaborate on them asap. Also, saying "I have different reasons for suspecting this guy" but then hiding them from the town does not help at all. Doesn't seem trustworthy to me.
##Vote Pesco
(oh hey, huh what, fancy meeting you on the Kefit train)
I am interested though, because of your post about huh what, it seems very much like his reasoning is parroted reasoning of mine, which seems a little odd. That is probably worth me looking into more, because his other voting habits certainly don't resemble mine, but perhaps he has just been parroting others this entire time?lol what? Elaborate+give examples please
but Kefit is now the frontrunner on his list, with huh what have switched from Pesco to Kefit earlier in the day here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1670) (while making no mention of his Zakeri case, mind!).
huh what: If you didn't think he was very scummy, why was he second on your suspicions list twice?Where does this twice come from? I only remember having a suspicions list once, and I already explained that he looked pretty bad (ie, scummy) to me when I posted that list because of his jump on Excal. If you mean in my first wall, then uh, he wasn't exactly "second", but nobody else had done anything that made me raise an eyebrow at that point (aside from what I already covered above the lower half of my post).
Rou: I attacked Pesco for not attacking Zak seriously. -_- Hell, you attacked Pesco for his Zak vote too.Yes, except I retracted that vote when I realised that Pesco's vote on Zak was the first 'serious' case in ED1. You held it against him pretty much all day until the time came to jump onto Excal.
I didn't vote Excal for lurking; I voted him because he dumped his vote on Kefit over two other people for no given reason. The fact that he then vanished, leaving said vote to deadline, was just added on.Conceded, but in your voteswitch post you certainly made a big deal of his inactivity.
Rou that entire post just stopped being worth reading when I saw your conspiracy theory about RVS. Rewrite that thing and leave out the stupid shit. Seriously.This from the originator of FPMH?
@ Rou in #288: You're claiming my vote on Zak as deadline approached was useless when it... wasn't. If just one person had moved from Kefit to Zak before Baity's 15-seconds-before-deadline switch then he would've been a Sudden Death candidate. I know I called it useless in #238, but that's because it was SD + Zak couldn't be lynched at that point.By this point, pretty much no-one was even discussing Zakeri anymore. The only people actually bothering to refer to his case were the people who had already voted him, and even then Pesco jumped away to vote for Neo instead. The opportunity was there theoretically, but it was clear that no-one was intending to make that jump.
No interest in pursuing Rou or Baity today. Will look at other people later but my activity is going to take a definite knock from hereon out, though I'm okay to keep playing.So, are you trying to lurking look less bad by telling everyone before you do it? I know that had worked with K4U (to an extent) last game, claiming she had RL stuff going on and would post a lot less.
If I don't see posts by Alice, Neo, Baity and huh what by then I'm going to start breaking out the day-vigs.Hmm. I thought this might be worth pointing out because of recent developments, although it's not much. Moving on.
Actually I'm just now noticing that FAV mentions that ED1 can be useful by citing a previous instance where she used joke vote patterns against someone - and then blasts Zakeri for using joke vote patterns against someone. Well! Willing to vote FAV today if necessary to avoid a lynch I don't like (Benny if that train resurfaces, Zakeri, maybe Pesco but I'm still undecided there), suspicions are a combination of hypocrisy, cheerleading the Kefit wagon while clinging to a hypocritical vote, lame excuses for bad/scummy play (seriously, appeal to MS of all places?) and the journalistic touch. Still happy with my Kefit vote, though.Okay.
So, NS. What exactly are you trying to prove with that post? Is there some point you want to make?At first I was expecting to come out of it thinking "Oh FAV is so scummy", and then that... really didn't happen. And don't even try to tell me I should have just deleted the whole thing after it didn't come to a conclusive result, that was way too much work, it must be good for SOMETHING ;_;
When Post 162 rolled along and Zakeri came back with people pressing him for his case on huh what, he was promising rereads and a new case, so what was the point of pressuring him about his earlier case then? He had his own word out there that new content was coming, me yelling at him for it wasn't going to expedite the process; in fact, it was very likely to distract him by making him get mad at me, and that doesn't help anyone. (Look at how he reacted to Roukan.)Since when did you have to hold yourself responsible for other people's focus on their cases? Cowering away from making an opinion because it could slow down his reread is not Townie, and it's definitely not Town!Kilga.
Neo produces...a wall of nothing but IIoA. Wow....so I really should have just not posted it when it ended without enough evidence for a vote , then? Greeaaat ;_;
Lurkers should be given some attention as well I believe; I'm counting 3. Cut by a scamming booth with pretty much the same idea.this seemed to me like it was encouraging people to vote moar lurkers.
Speaking of, I would like their opinion. NS? HW?
It's as if he wanted to distance himself from a scumwagon as much as possible before his death so it could not be held against himI have no idea what the hell you mean here. Why would scumMe want to distance away from a wagon that would flip scum?
how is the fact that I stayed on my main suspect (who was scum) who I'd been on the entire day when he was still a viable lynch a point against me?You've misinterpreted me here. I was not saying that your staying on Zak was a point against you, I was just struggling to understand why Kilga said that you were good for it and then said me jumping late when the case had basically stopped being talked about makes me look worse. I'm holding to this - no-one had declared intent to switch to Zakeri, no-one had seemed more interested in voting Zakeri than who they were already following, Zak wasn't adding anything new to use as a case against him, and so moving to the Neo lynch instead makes perfect sense to me.
Since we don't know when Serp is coming, are you town or scum or whatever the hell else?Town. But even if I live through the vig due to my ability and somehow don't get lynched afterwards, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do, since apparently I'm nearly as bad as Zent was at playing.
Town. But even if I live through the vig due to my ability and somehow don't get lynched afterwards, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do, since apparently I'm nearly as bad as Zent was at playing.
Sodium: Zakpass (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330209#msg330209), forgets about Zak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg331030#msg331030), votes Excal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg332029#msg332029) which puts him ahead of Zak. I think this one is a more telling wagon swing move to let Zak slip.Hmm. Okay, Sodium isn't looking as good as I thought.
Excal: Kefitjump (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330439#msg330439) looks pretty weak in retrospect if you claim that you had been reading. Zak voting Excal to even the wagons swings me to reading town here.
But not a point against him as scum would not take risks like starting a wagon. Kilga as scum isn't ballsy enough to do that sort of thing on D1.This sounds pretty much like a meta clear to me, and one I don't agree with. I see it as being in Kilga's character to see the wagon that everyone else misses, regardless of his affiliation (and especially here in MotK) and he argues it so well that no-one can really hold it against him. I've seen him agree with the running wagons in Meme Mafia as scum, but only after his attempted case on me (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99726.html#msg99726) saw no response.
Rou, why does your piece of meta necessarily beat Pesco's piece of meta?Because mine is based on the last game that Kilga was scum in, where I saw him trying (and admittedly failing) to start a case on me in the same way he started a case on Kefit here?
EBWOP: For what reason would you prefer me to NOT VIG Benny?Zak jumps on Benny, Rou jumps on Benny, Zak supports Rou jumping on Benny and the Benny case in general.
Cowering away from making an opinion because it could slow down his reread is not Townie, and it's definitely not Town!Kilga.
I was not saying that your staying on Zak was a point against you, I was just struggling to understand why Kilga said that you were good for it and then said me jumping late when the case had basically stopped being talked about makes me look worse. I'm holding to this - no-one had declared intent to switch to Zakeri, no-one had seemed more interested in voting Zakeri than who they were already following, Zak wasn't adding anything new to use as a case against him, and so moving to the Neo lynch instead makes perfect sense to me.
Pesco, another point - this new case on Kefit came after several people had called out to Kilga to start posting genuine content. Was he in any position to do anything other than start an original case, given that hopping onto a bandwagon was likely to bring around even more scrutiny?
Serela, please stop doing your level best to make me want to ignore the tentative town assessment I gave you at the beginning of the day. You've posted a deluge of words, now vote for someone.I think I've reached a good conclusion after Pesco FAKE VIG KILLING MINDHAX-shocked me and I actually started making sense. At this point, after my ISOs on several people, I believe either HW or MSB is scum. I'm not sure which one, wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's both.
Benny: Doesn't work that way. Just because the majority of town thinks something doesn't mean everyone does, and difference in opinion is not really scummy.
I have no idea what the hell you mean here. Why would scumMe want to distance away from a wagon that would flip scum?Because then if you had made a stance about it there was a chance it could be used against you later if he died. You only actually said a sentence about it after it was beginning to lose steam and you never even elaborated on it.
Threatens to vote Kilga if he doesn't get serious. Attacks Excal and Sodium, and gets on the Kefit case; attacking Excal and voting Kefit are both actions that make me think "scum" right now. The attack on Sodium, I'm not sure what to do with that, though. HW pokes Alice.This is mainly misreps. When did I say I was going to vote Kilga (aside from that one jokepost, which was, uh, a joke)? When did I attack Excal? Also don't recall poking Alice either.
Next, HW goes after pretty much everyone who's posted more then the first few jokevotesffs Serela. Just because I'm asking somebody a question about their post doesn't mean I'm actually attacking them for it.
Changed my mind. I've unapproved the entire conversation for the time being. Benny will still be able to see it, but there isn't a whole lot I can do about that.I will be around for the entire day and can fill Serp in on the issue (I also have limited moderation capabilities for this board, thus letting me actually show Serp the relevant conversation).
Benny, Baity, anyone else that happened to see what just went by, please do your best to refrain from commenting. Serp, get in touch with either myself or Benny or maybe Edible (whoever happens to be around when you see this) so you can be filled in and decide what you want to do.
Everyone else, business as usual.
It seems more like Baity was prodding lurkers than asking for opinions.Yeah no. I'm not seeing how you're getting this. Behold! My 93 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330052#msg330052) (again)! I assure you that it quite clearly says (well, in the midst of strikeouts and all but still):
Zakeri voting him at the end of Day 1 is rather improbable, but it's possible, especially with daytalk. Even if they didn't have daytalk to plan it, Zak could've spontaneously just done it as a way to get pressure off himself. It's easier to bus your buddy than to vote an innocent townie.I like how you yourself admit that the odds of it happening are slim, and then you try to argue it anyway. Town should be able to say 'yeah, it's unlikely, maybe I should look elsewhere unless I can find more evidence', but here you just say 'so what if it's unlikely? I wanna put my vote here!' This rings of scum laziness - 'I know my case is bad, but really Excal's as Townie as anyone I could vote for, so what's the point in voting someone else?'
Hm. I don't like the word choice. You'll understand why after the question. NS, Answer for me: If either one of the two above mentioned flips scum, does this automatically clear the other person? y/n
Serela, why are you voting me? You never actually said why you think I'm worse than Sodium even though he was your other choice. Elaborate. Also, regarding your iso on me:On Kilga:It looked serious enough to me. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330362#msg330362)
This is mainly misreps. When did I say I was going to vote Kilga (aside from that one jokepost, which was, uh, a joke)? When did I attack Excal? Also don't recall poking Alice either.
Have to agree with Pesco's 'more derp than Town' call here.
Sorry I played shitty in what could've been an important game.(though to be fair I probably could have survived longer if zak didn't get vigged. gdi)
Pesco:
You are (http://i39.tinypic.com/2873hiv.png)Kiret Kilruddugan, Cook! You take the raw meat and plants the fortress brings in and turn them into food. With the crisis now facing the fortress, you have no qualms at all about taking advantage of that position.
You have obtained a single dose of deadly poison. This makes you a Town One-Shot Dayvig! Once in the game, during the daytime phase, you may publicly post in the game thread to ##poison one player. This ability may not be used on the first day. It's a lonely responsibility, the power of life and death. Oh well, at least you can trust your kitten. You win with the town. Good luck!
Kitten4u:
You are (http://i39.tinypic.com/2repbv5.png)Kith Eloltatek, Kitten! You're the feline that adopted the cook. If he dies, it'll be mildly inconvenient to take care of yourself, so try and advise your dwarf as well as you can.
You may not post in the game thread, vote, use abilities, be targeted by abilities, or do anything else aside from talking with Pesco. That makes this whole role PM rather pointless, but there you go. You win with the town. Good luck!
Gentlemen! I have had a series of revelations.
1. This is screwing with my work. Again.
2. I'm not having fun. Being scum is boring. Writing long posts is more boring than I remembered.
3. No way in hell I'm returning so I don't give a rat's ass how I leave.
4. Bye!
PS Sorry Alice, I ditched that email address like a year ago.
I'd even request a little message tacked to his corpse going HOW'S THAT FOR MINDHAX?!I would have bussed you D3 on the basis of that alone
I could have replaced in :derp:And then instant turbolynch :3
Stop killing me :ohdear:
Next game, all scum roles are Zakeri clones :]Quote from: ZakeriStop killing me :ohdear:
This is dissapointing.
Oh well, I won't delve into reasons.
Also, just guessing, but is Carthrat a paranoid gun owner?
Also, I'm too lazy to repost my PM. It's in the quicktopic if you really care, though.
Once during the game at night, you may ##screw one other player.
You are (http://i41.tinypic.com/bg8syf.jpg)Gecast Lorbamdedros, Record Keeper! You spend your days and nights in your office, carefully keeping track of the flow of supplies into and through the fortress. Your life is filled with numbers, chronicling the heights and lows of life in the fortress.Pretty useless; all I could do was speculate. Roleclaiming this would have WIFOM flying everywhere. Basically, I get LyLo results.
Your work gives you a good sense of the course the fortress is on. Things are looking pretty grim now, and you know just how grim they are. This makes you the Town Soothsayer! Every morning, you are given the day of the absolute soonest LyLo the town could face from that point. As your first report, you know that the soonest LyLo the town could face from the start is Day 3. You win with the town. Good luck!
Didn't go through, sadly, because I was really looking forward to it. :P Flavor behind it is this: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Strange_mood (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Strange_mood)
If it had hit, the target would be unable to vote, and they would only be able to speak with combinations of the phrases "I must have shells!" and "I must have crystal glass!" (Two items that most fortresses have very limited access to, and which therefore lead to tons of failed moods.) Heh, I was looking forward to seeing Alice try and use that to communicate in binary.
Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga.This needs to get sigged by someone.
Also, I like how Pesco caught Roukanken as scum for being the only person that's actually playing pro-town./quote]
Well, that explains.
Kind of a poor show. Makes me wonder why I bothered giving up my spot, haha.
ps I'm always up for blaming Bard.
##screw you bard
ps; i'll make UK a bulletproof bomb self-governor survivor too
I take it there will be like five lynchers and Pesco will be the lynchee?
I'm going to apply to run a game and make it SO INCREDIBLY SLANTED AGAINST BOTH TOWN AND SCUM that you'll all CRY and WEEP over the UNBALANCE.Bulletproof SK that knows everyone's roles when the game starts and has Day-kill instead of Night-kill, can send one pm at night through the mod, and can switch two players roles once per night
I take it there will be like five lynchers and Pesco will be the lynchee?
It's like a Hydra but bad.oh wow. And Hydras are bad to begin with.
Also, Kilga! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg332360#msg332360)
I'm recanting that, I've since changed my mind. Sudden Death will be whatever it is.Kay-o. I'm just going to assume that there's some SUPER SECRET METHOD of going about things in Sudden Death. Well, I won't be playing another game for quite a while, so this doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I'm gonna say this quickly, I'm leaving my vote on the Queen 'cos this is a revolution! Off with her head *sharpens ax*
That do-gooder Ned is also deserving, but the Queen is full of crap!Quote from: Queen Elizabeth IFlanders and Khan are posting detailed and thoughtful arguments.That's not useful, one of you has to die! You should be trying to convince us that it should be Ned - otherwise it's you that will hang. If you're a good towny then the only person you know is town is you! So you should be trying to save yourself! Telling us that Ned is towny goes against your own townyness right now because this is sudden death. You should be trying to protect yourself especially if you have a power role which can be put to good use. Supporting anything other than a Ned lynch right now shows that you aren't 100% behind your own townyness.
No. Being a good townie means I want town to win. I realize I screwed up very badly by dropping out of most of the day, and in this particular situation I think it's very possible Ned living would be much better for town than me living. Of course I can't be 100% sure on him being town, but saying I think he's scum would be a lie. I think he's more likely to be scum than I am, and I'm sure not going to be self-hammering, but at this point I think being honest about my opinions is the best I can do to help town.