Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER

[Kilgamayan]

The previous post is indeed mine. I will try to remember to use this account at work from now on, sorry.

[Shadoweh]

Kilgamayan: I'm not sure if sextuplet posting is as town as triple posting! Honestly, logic also says you should die. Conqueror's wagon was you, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what on and off, and NeoSerela promising a vote before Conqueror claimed. You're the only person on this list that isn't leaning town right now. If you were the one with the gun in this situation would you be inclined to believe everyone on this wagon was town? I also have to ask, why didn't the fact that Conqueror's wagon was unopposed cause you to question it?

[capt. h]

Schezo and Bardiche have their moments. I decided to post every reference they make to each other, and I would like to hear more considering Edible?s claim.

I?ll post their cases on eachother:

Schezo on Bardiche:

Bardiche makes a good post on his reappearance which I agree with.

And Bard hasn?t actually said anything about Schezo yet.

Furthermore, Bard did actually say in post 800 of the RPG mafia thread that if UK dies night one, Bard is probably scum and we should lynch him. I just didn?t believe he was serious at the time, but now that we?ve narrowed down our candidates a bit it occurs to me that he may have actually meant it.

In addition, if we have a player capable of checking, it may be necessary for one of us to check on Edible?s role/alignment. I don?t think he?s lying, but if scum wanted to distract us, this would be a very good way to do it, as it would take several kills to confirm his claim.

[Shadoweh]

capt.h: I would be surprised if we had another cop. It's not likely we can check alignments. As Kilga pointed out Edible is just as likely to lie as Town anyways. My list hasn't changed yet and Bardiche is a serious contender for face bullets.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilgamayan: I'm not sure if sextuplet posting is as town as triple posting!

Well, throughout the whole process, I was:

- Still waking up
- Getting ready for work
- Leaving for work
- Actually AT work where the majority of my attention was diverted to something more important
- Logged into an account different from the one with which I signed up and had played the overwhelming majority of the game (some people like to go through posts by viewing individual posting history)

and I'm not sure why town would not be susceptible to having incomplete thoughts during such a process.

Conqueror's wagon was you, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what on and off, and NeoSerela promising a vote before Conqueror claimed. You're the only person on this list that isn't leaning town right now. If you were the one with the gun in this situation would you be inclined to believe everyone on this wagon was town?

I would be inclined to think things through and make sure I made the most informed decision possible before using a vigilante shot that will kill me as well. I'm certainly not going to say I'm not deserving of suspicion because ultimately my vote was placed poorly and everyone else that voted for Conqueror either looks really good or has flipped town, but to kneejerk and think "only one person on a townie wagon doesn't look really town therefore they must be scum" is a little premature.

I also have to ask, why didn't the fact that Conqueror's wagon was unopposed cause you to question it?

What about it was unopposed? It never reached more than 4 votes on a 9-to-lynch day, there were a smattering of other cases all throughout the day before his claim, and a couple of people vocalized disinterest/distaste in the case, such as yourself. If it hit something like L-2 with no one objecting to it then I'd buy your idea that it was unopposed, but given what really happened I cannot agree with that assessment at all. It looks pretty opposed in this vote count, for example.)

Furthermore, Bard did actually say in post 800 of the RPG mafia thread that if UK dies night one, Bard is probably scum and we should lynch him. I just didn?t believe he was serious at the time, but now that we?ve narrowed down our candidates a bit it occurs to me that he may have actually meant it.

This was a joke based on past interactions. I wouldn't put any stock into it whatsoever.

Since I am likely to have someone claim I am doing nothing but defending myself, I would again like to propose Schezo as an alternate choice. His end-of-day dance may not have been scum buddy confusion but it certainly looks like it also could have been indecision and paranoia from not wanting to draw too much attention should whoever he vote for actually get selected and flip town since that would put a lot of scrutiny on him. His explanation is more of an apology and may be accepted as such in postgame once everyone has flipped (if he turns out to be town) but not right now for reasons that should be obvious.

[capt. h]

Hourai actively tried to make a case against Huh What here:

@huh what

So you admit jumping on a wagon instead of trying to lynch the person you find scummiest. Am I correct in assuming so?

New replyYou seem more intent on pushing others (me) as scum, even thought you're voting him. And I never called it "weak," I said it was weaker than mine.
Good job on twisting my words.


And also, fun fact, you've never said him or his actions have been scummy until your recent posts. It's always something else. You've tip-toed around that subject even though you say you've 
I just find that neat.

And Hourai doesn't even mention Bard or Kilgamayan. The entirety of his schezo mentions are:

And my last point here, Zak

Hi there. He pops in to say why voting newbies is bad, and then points outs to UK that she is wrong in voting capt. h, when she isn't even voting him. And then he goes and throws a vote on Schezo because he played scummy last game in retrospect. What? How are you helping town by doing that. RVS is over and doing that cannot be considered hunting in the slightest.

and

@Schezo
No.

From Edible's claim that of Kilga, Bard, Schezo, Shadoweh, and Huhwhat, two of them are scum, I think Hourai probably avoided talking about scum buddies altogether and focused on townies he could make look like scum. I think we can use the omission of players from Hourai's posts to help us find both two of Edible's scum, and maybe even the scum Edible's test didn't cover.

[Edible]

Ugh, of all the days to be ridiculously busy at work.

Some notes:

-Kilga avoided discussion of Hourai like the plague yesterday, referring to him only in passing or when someone else mentioned him.  This is less of a scumtell than I'd like it to be given the potential nature of Hourai's traitor role, but it is still rather worrisome especially considering his stances on Conq/Serela/Shadoweh.

-Bardiche placed the tying vote on Hourai to tie him with Serela yesterday, which gives him more credibility in my eyes.  He was on huh what earlier in the day but I wasn't getting good vibes from huh what myself during the earlier parts of my readthrough.

-Schezo is outright bad.  "I think Shadoweh is scum! *votes*"  "I think Serela is scum! *votes*" (later on, with hourai leading) "I thought hourai was scum the entire time! *votes*"

My preferred course of action today would be to shoot Kilga and hang Schezo.

[Kilgamayan]

This may sound like a silly question, but Shadoweh, where did you suspicions of huh what go, given that scum would not have known who the traitor was (and thus huh what could theoretically have been bussing a buddy without being aware of it)?

I think I would prefer the reverse order of Edible's actions (unless I'm taken out of them entirely) but I'm rather biased on the subject. :C

[Edible]

Also, this is a general notice and not directed to anyone in particular.

For the love of god, stop with the "You may wish to review your post." copy/pasting every time it happens. <_<;  It's gotten old and is distracting.

[Schezo]

re: Edible: At the time I voiced Hourai dislike and voted NeoS. I had thought to myself that the day was already so late I didn't think that people were willing to just switch to Hourai over the little content he posted.  Of course after the radio incident and coming out with a pretty ridiculous claim I felt the need to vote him.
I think it's been mentioned already, but this is quick post^tm and I'll continue it when I get back but there seems to be nothing to prevent him from lying about who Pesco chose to blood test and how many results actually came back.  It could be an easy way for scum to stall for time while we lynch everyone on that list and only verify it when they are all dead since the cop died last night too.

Shadoweh seems to be holding it over everyone's heads that she is holier than thou and doesn't have to scumhunt.  Even if you are using your vig for town purposes, I don't like that.

More later.

[Serp]

VOTECOUNT  -  Going For Another 15 Pages? Edition

Shadoweh (3):  NeoSerela, PX, Schezo, huh what, Kilgamayan
PX (2):  Dormio, capt. h
Schezo (1):  Kilgamayan
Colt (1):  huh what

Not Voting:  Bardiche, Colt, Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri

With 12 votes in play, 7 are required to lynch.  Less than fifty-five and a half hours remain in the day.

[Prody]

Low presence, posts full of waffles, awkward jump on capt. h followed by an empty unvote, showed a desire to get on a flipped townie wagon but lacked the conviction to actually do so. None of these are traits I like to see in newbies, and I think his intention to jump on Conqueror is as damning as those who actually did so, if not worse.

The first two cannot be called valid reasons to determine I'm scum. Capt.h acted weirdly around the first parts of the game so it would only be natural for someone who can't easily understand advanced explanations like me to come to that conclusion at first. Everyone's reasons for voting Conqueror seemed convincing enough for me (esp from Affinity and Kilga) but Conqueror promised a full defense post (which turned out to be a claim), from which I wanted to see before placing my vote.

Colt is a non-presence. He didn't bother to make a case yesterday. Same with Zakeri actually. These two need to actually contribute before I can decide which is worse.

Firstly, I absolutely don't have any objections to the using your power.

I don't really understand why Kilga needs to die at all. From D1 his posts seem to stand out positively to me.

I can't give any opinion on Bardiche until he posts (but I do expect more lashing) and Zakeri as well.

My opinion on Edible's blood testing: Thinking from a scum's perspective, that result would only help scum if the five names brought up are all town. Unless its some sort of super risk of exposing another scum, I don't find any room for lying.

Overall I thought I could give some words at the end (when everything speaks the loudest) in D1 but Conqueror's ability pretty much changed the whole situation. I read a bit more before being assured that Hourai would be the target for Conqueror's ability.

[capt. h]

We have three potential targets: Kilgamayan, Bardiche, and Schezo. One of them is probably town. Two of them are probably scum. And once the townie dies, his role probably becomes useless. We also have about 18 hours until Shadoweh uses her ability to take one of them out.

Would now be a good time to suggest that these three role claim? The townie won't be able to use his role if we kill him, and it will give us something to work with as we decide who is scum.

[Prody]

You can't ignore Bardiche and huh what who still may be scum, no matter how low the chances are.

[Kilgamayan]

As much as I wouldn't particularly think the guy scum without the bucket list, I'm getting increasingly nervous at people narrowing this selection down to three people and excluding huh what from consideration. Edible at least is on record as saying "Neither gut nor logic tell me he's scum" but I'm not seeing that so much from others like Cap and Shadoweh (and after all that time Shadoweh spent bashing huh what for supposedly trying to set up a false dichotomy, we may end up with a false trichotomy that excludes him).

[Shadoweh]

Kilgamayan: You can't tell when I'm joking :< The triple posting thing is something I said last game. I agree that at one point my wagon almost rose to the same place as Conqueror's but that didn't last long at all and Affinity was succeeding in his quest for Conqueror's One True Lynch. By the time he claimed it was because the only case people could agree on was his. Considering I'm not going to shoot myself and you will hold you are also town, if Schezo is scum do you think his buddy is Bardiche or huh what and why? My suspicions of huh what are lowered because of Hourai's interactions with him (not the reverse) and because he offered me a partial clear before I pulled out my gun when I was looking to be the easiest Day 2 lynch ever.

Schezo: I'm glad you're not misrepping me again about me saying I don't have to scumhunt today or something.. oh wait. Can't wait to see what you say about who you actually think is a zombie.

Colt: You CAN give an opinion on Bardiche before he makes another post! He has posted earlier, take a look at them and say what you think. That you didn't even say which of Serela or Hourai you wanted to flip if you were here and watching looks bad for you. There are eleven players besides yourself you can have an opinion on and they don't have to be on Edible's list. Answer with the names of at least two players. Who do you think is scum right now?

[capt. h]

As much as I wouldn't particularly think the guy scum without the bucket list, I'm getting increasingly nervous at people narrowing this selection down to three people and excluding huh what from consideration. Edible at least is on record as saying "Neither gut nor logic tell me he's scum" but I'm not seeing that so much from others like Cap and Shadoweh (and after all that time Shadoweh spent bashing huh what for supposedly trying to set up a false dichotomy, we may end up with a false trichotomy that excludes him).

The reason I do not believe Huh What is scum is because Hourai tried to start a train on him in post #255 and post #260. Hourai tries to bring attention to several players. However, he does not mention you or Bard, and doesn't attack Schezo at all. Regardless of theory about what "traitor" means, we agree Hourai knew who the scum were, and I would be very surprised if Hourai tried to attack and draw attention to a scum buddy.

That's not to say Huh What is above suspicion, but there is reason to beleive he is town at the moment.

[Edible]

Two things of note.

1) My results specifically told me at least two of the five were zombies.  I realize this is unlikely but it's possible there's more than just two.

2) I will still heavily favor the lynch or shooting of any one of the remaining people on my list once today is over, should we not hit one or both scum.  This does not mean we should stop looking at other people, though I agree that we have more immediate priorities today.

...

Additionally, I'm worried that Kilga is pushing the "traitor = unknown to scum" thing as hard as he is.  Upon further consideration, it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>.  Hourai was a scum team member and therefore other scum knew who he was; I see no reason to doubt this anymore.  This further brightens my opinions of huh what and Bardiche.

[Shadoweh]

Edible: :< What did I say earlier?

The Traitor is a role with a pro-Mafia alignment that is not actually in the Mafia family.

I'm positive this means it would come up as an alignment. Everything else about the flip and his abilities points to this description of how Traitors work.

[Serela]

Busy, but going to throw in my two cents over this traitor stuff.

If Hourai did not have the scum quicktopic, then there is absolutely no good explanation for how he knew what was going on in the radio conversations.

Being handed a radio reciever by someone does not count as a "good explanation" IMO, as this seems rather far-fetched, and it was not included in his role flip so it isn't part of his role (which I would find very odd anyway). I wouldn't be horribly surprised (though would not expect) if a scum had a radio reciever as their role or something, but I'd find it very strange for it to be passable to other people. My own reciever isn't, either, for that matter.

Also, it's been pretty inferrable, not never clearly and directly stated; Shadoweh, does using your vig kill you as well as your target? I don't want you alive tomorrow going "I never explicitly stated I'd die right when I used it!". Just covering bases, here. I'd prefer a full claim while you're at it, since you've been rather unclear on exactly what your role is other then able to kill someone and possibly harmful to yourself.

[Prody]

Who do you think is scum right now?

Everyone on Edible's test list, except for you and kilga, which is why I hope they can claim as well.

[Shadoweh]

Serela: I have no intention of unvagueing my role any more then I already have. I don't think he was handed a receiver by 'someone', I believe it was given to him by Serpentarius to be used until he was recruited as a zombie and lost the ability to use it. I'd like to point out that by your reasoning, when I flip Town you're going to get yourself killed.

Colt: That's a good start. There is a high percentage of at least one scum not being on that list. Who do you think it would be and why?

[capt. h]

The one player everyone seems to agree is probably scum is Schezo. Regardless of how Hourai's role works, I have seen no one defend him.

Incidentally, if Schezo is town, I think he should tell us the details of his role now.

I think Huh What is town because Hourai attacked him. And since I think Hourai was a traitor in role, that implies bard is town because a quick vote change from him would have saved hourai.

Of the two people we kill today, if Kilga is one of them, I think he should be second. He is one of the most intelligent posters and far more frequent than Bard and Schezo, so we will have far more information to work with if we give him an extra 32 hours to live than if we give it to Bard or Schezo. This assumes that Huh What is town, which while I think he is town, has not been confirmed yet.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I am not in the best mental condition right now.

Anyway.
Colt: You're doing that thing where you're coming in to say nothing.
I mean, you haven't had a vote on anyone the entire game. (Bar one on capt. h that was removed in your next post)

The first two cannot be called valid reasons to determine I'm scum.

Early game, sure, why not.
However, lurking and inactivity does not benefit town at all.
Also, do you have any reason why you think that huh what/Bardiche/Schezo are scum?
Like, other than the fact that they're on a list that could have been faked?
And why does Kilgamayan/Shadoweh get a clear from you?

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
3 hours of sleep, yo.
And I still haven't finished that assignment.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Bleh.

[Kilgamayan]

Additionally, I'm worried that Kilga is pushing the "traitor = unknown to scum" thing as hard as he is.  Upon further consideration, it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>.  Hourai was a scum team member and therefore other scum knew who he was; I see no reason to doubt this anymore.  This further brightens my opinions of huh what and Bardiche.

I have mentioned it as much as I have because everyone else seems rather convinced it is the case. There have been several piece of evidence people have pointed to, between flavor and the Wiki, and for you to say "it seems obvious Traitor is the team name" when it does not seem obvious at all (and, in fact, several people have agreed the opposite to be the more likely scenario) with nothing to back up this assertion does not do much for my opinion of you.

[capt. h]

I mean, Bard is town if Hourai is known to scum. If bard isn't known to scum, then we don't have that.

@ Dormio - What do you think of Huh What, Bardiche, Schezo, and Kilgamayan?

[Edible]

@Mod: Is Hourai's alignment flip "traitor", or was that part of his role?

@Shadoweh: I suppose we can debate this forever, but you should know that the mafiascum wiki definition of traitor is by no means the only one.  Additionally, Hourai's ability was mod-confirmed upon flip and had nothing to do with your stereotypical traitor role.

@Serela: Can you summarize the receiver situation for me?  The mad post-rushing from yesterday seems to have confused the issue for me.  What did you do, to whom, and what happened as a result?

[Edible]

ebwop

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Stop doing this please. :V

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Edible: huh what already tried that.

I'll organize my thoughts and post them once I finish and hand in this assignment and get back home. (Around 7~8 hours later)

[Bardiche]

Well, this game moves a little faster than the regular.

re: dropping my pressure on UK. Uh, well, didn't I already explain it's useless to leave my vote on someone who doesn't even deign to respond to an inquiry? I thought it'd be obvious from how I said how I thought the UK thing would resolve itself, and it did, because I did indeed kill UK.

If Edible's role works as advertised then the game's just about won, since at least two scum are hopelessly cornered in a list of five, and if Shadoweh shoots one and dies herself, it leaves three people to lynch. Two are scum, so in the worst case scenario we drop to around 7 players with one scum remaining. I reserve some fright over if town has roles this powerful (Mass Cop Check, always useful; vigilant Cop; and Guaranteed Scum Lynch Or Golden Townie) what sort of powers Scum may have.

Could someone make clear what the case of allegiations against me is? Shadoweh's declaring she wants to shoot me, and I haven't yet divined what the chief reason here is.

I still maintain that, despite Kilgamayan's trust in huh what, huh what is not the golden townie he would have us believe he is. This first post he makes is a wall of opinions that amounts to "Shadoweh is scum, PX is scummy but probably not Shadoweh's scumbuddy and Colt is newbscummy", without actually providing a reason for the suspicion that Colt is newbscummy.

After all, if he waffles and has no clear stances, I would surmise experienced scum would assist in providing reasoning. And if they would not, would Colt then not become a prime lynch target for the supposed waffles, as indecision is not a town benefit?

I share the belief that Hourai being specifically named "Traitor" when everyone else flipped "Town" indicates a traitor role, which would not be absurd given the "experimental roles" we were promised and thus some outlandish roles such as Multi-Cop Edible and Vigilant Cop UK hanging about. Having said that, it means Hourai flipping scum does nothing to improve my opinion of huh what, as he could have been bussing a buddy unintentionally.

Indeed, Hourai challenging huh what to vote him instead of Conqueror would be bitter irony on Hourai's part, perhaps even willingness to be bussed? I don't know, I'm hanging into WIFOm there.

In summation,
##VOTE: huh what
Going to read over the other scum Edible found (assuming Edible speaks the truth, which at this stage seems a major gambit if he does not speak true) and then probably see where I stand on Schezo, Kilgamayan and, oh, Shadoweh and I. I suspect if Shadoweh speaks the truth a case on her would fruitlessly end in getting my face shot, and I'm never a fan of self-lynch...

So Schezo and Kilga it is.