Rewrite Mafia (Game Over - Town and Third Party Win)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

IHNN: His opinions on HW were valid at first but due to HW being revealed as ITP, I don't agree with them much anymore. I don't think he is scum, though. He seems more interested in getting rid of a third party because most likely he thinks HW won't be useful. Due to a lack of talking from him on recent issues, though, I do not have a certain opinion of him.

what do you think about his opinions on me given my counterargument to his case, and the fact that he made no effort to push what he could have pushed d1?

[BigBangMeteor]

Basically everyone's vote against me comes down to me not having posted enough content and not having given enough reads, since I can't actually see anyone analyzing why my Affinity vote was bad (except Affinity himself, but that's only in defence). Therefore I'll repost what I've said about others, and since people don't think I have any non-Affinity content, I'll make it mostly out of quotes of my old posts.

Rai

Rai's case against Affinity doesn't distinguish between telling someone to talk about person X and voting them, so I don't agree with it, but his fervour makes me think he's more likely to be town.

To expand, I think scum generally want to start backing off when they're in the minority and people are attacking them for having bad logic. They change their minds, apologize for their mistake maybe, and attack someone else. Rai didn't do that, and kept sticking with his case for quite a while.

Shadoweh

a) Shadoweh is Kotarou. This means she's town.
b) Shadoweh is not Kotarou, and is scum. However, according to Prims's wincon, Kotarou exists in this game. If Shadoweh wasn't Kotarou, someone would have counterclaimed. For there to be no CC, Prims must be lying, and must therefore also be mafia. That means they'd be tying each other together an awful lot for two scumbuddies.

I guess for the sake of completeness, there's option c) Prims is telling the truth, but Kotarou is scum. This option is still highly unlikely. Yes, my reasons for finding him town are based on flavour. So?

Serela

Serela's confused reaction to the voteblocking doesn't read fake to me, and because this type of role just seems more likely to be scum than town, I'm inclined to say he's town at the moment.

This is from D1 but it still holds and I think his D2 posts have been decent.

Bard

I think that Bard is probably town, I can't see his obstinacy being scum-motivated. When scum are in the minority, they're not generally that vocal or stubborn. I think his logic is bad but I can't see him as scum.

Validon

I thought I'd said more about him but I guess not. His posts near the beginning read like town who didn't really know what to do. I think if he was scum, his buddies would have given him more advice. I know it's a possibility his buddies were inactive, but his posts were sort of confused well into D1, beyond after everyone had posted. Additionally, his tone in response to people calling him a newb reads town because if he was scum, why would he want to be seen as a more experienced player? When people know you're new, and they keep insisting you're new, protesting so vehemently against it is just giving up the ability to coast a little.

BT

I don't really have anything solid to say about him, but his content and effort reads town.

I didn't post a LOT about these people, but I don't see a real reason to state again and again who my townreads are and my reasons for finding them town when most of them aren't in danger of being lynched.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount

BigBangMeteor(4): Affinity, I have no name, Validon98, Bardiche
I have no name(3): Serela, BigBangMeteor, huh what
Bardiche(2): Shadoweh, BT
Shadoweh(1): Raikaria
Not voting(0): Nobody
With 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

You have ~49 hours remaining in the day.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

i think it's unfair to fault bbm for not having a bunch of scumreads other than affinity / ihnn since i am also townreading most of the game.

bard isn't town though. when raikaria acts super obstinate it's a towntell because he's not self-aware. bard actually knows what he's doing and would definitely push shadoweh if he thought he could get away with it as long as town could still mislynch without his vote

[Validon98]

I certainly never said that your vote against Affinity is scummy, considering I thought him scummy before you even brought it up for reasons everyone has stated already. Welp, there goes another potential lynch candidate.

##Unvote

@HW: Well, if I'm reading it right he's also basically saying he'll let things play out this night and see what's going to happen D3... which is what I was going to do as well. Also, I still want to know whether fulfilling your condition leads to the automatic end of the game, because if it does, then I DON'T want to let things play out, and I WILL vote Shadoweh regardless of being town or scum.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

i don't see why you're asking me this since you'd have no reason to believe me either way but no, my victory does not in the game. usually in these sorts of game sthe only wincons that do are town's, scum's and a sk's

i know ihnn is planning to let things wait out until d3 now, but i'm talking about his actions from before this on d1 and d2

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

*end the game
*of games the

typing 2 hard

[BigBangMeteor]

But I don't think enough people were agreeing with him for him to push that hard for that long. Basically, I don't think that town would still mislynch without that vote. That he's specifically refusing to take anything at all that you might say as true, not bothering to discern where there's a point to you lying, also reminds me of last game where he was so annoyed about my attitude towards thirds.

Another thing I dislike about IHNN is that he calls out Prims for having mostly short posts even though there was plenty of content in the posts. It also doesn't go together with him saying that Prims was jumpy. If he was jumpy and disjointed, that means that Prims was talking about a lot of stuff, no? How can his posts have not very much content then?

Whether Prims is an Assassin or just some type of Guesser, I doubt he ends the game because that could mean that Prims could win on N1 despite whatever town did, short of lynching him D1. That would be incredibly lame and not very fair to the town.

[Bardiche]

not bothering to discern where there's a point to you lying,

Actually, as I said, if he wants to suicide on Shadoweh tonight to win, he stands to gain everything from lying about Shadoweh being confirmed Town to him. Pls. Pls do you even read.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

But I don't think enough people were agreeing with him for him to push that hard for that long. Basically, I don't think that town would still mislynch without that vote.

well consider who bard is currently voting (hint: it's not shadoweh)
keep in mind that all this happened within a 24 hour period. it's not like he was tunneling on shadoweh for an entire day phase

That he's specifically refusing to take anything at all that you might say as true, not bothering to discern where there's a point to you lying, also reminds me of last game where he was so annoyed about my attitude towards thirds.

this is just bard's general opinion on third parties, something which would stay consistent regardless of his alignment

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I was gonna reread but then I got high realized I like my vote JUST WHRE IT IS

[BigBangMeteor]

Actually, as I said, if he wants to suicide on Shadoweh tonight to win, he stands to gain everything from lying about Shadoweh being confirmed Town to him. Pls. Pls do you even read.

Nobody is saying that Kotarou is confirmed town because Prims is saying he is. What people are saying is that because of Prims, we can assume that Kotarou EXISTS. Even you're not denying this. And then since nobody has CCed Shadoweh being Kotarou, we can assume that Shadoweh is Kotarou. Then, since Kotarou is the main character of the VN, Shadoweh is probably town. Yes, it's possible that the main character might be scum. But is it likely, when both his friend and one of his love interests have flipped town?

[BigBangMeteor]

Well, more than the amount of time that Bard was voting Shadoweh, it's the amount of posts that he made about it in that short period that make me think he's town.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

i think the flavor spec is badlogic since the last time dormio hosted the protagonists were mafia and lover sks respectively, but i also don't see scum!bbm pushing this weak point so hard when it would just make a townie harder to lynch

[Bardiche]

we can assume that Kotarou EXISTS. Even you're not denying this. And then since nobody has CCed Shadoweh being Kotarou, we can assume that Shadoweh is Kotarou. Then, since Kotarou is the main character of the VN, Shadoweh is probably town. Yes, it's possible that the main character might be scum. But is it likely, when both his friend and one of his love interests have flipped town?

Sigh, I think we're just not going to agree about how using flavour to clear people is a horrible, horrible idea, are we? Yes, it's just as likely as the MC not being scum. It's a nulltell. I'm one of the MC's love interests as well, does that make me close-to-confirmed Town? I mean, one of his other love interests flipped Town as well! This line of reasoning isn't good, but we'll talk about that in the aftergame, because clearly I'm not convincing you now.

i think the flavor spec is badlogic since the last time dormio hosted the protagonists were mafia and lover sks respectively, but i also don't see scum!bbm pushing this weak point so hard when it would just make a townie harder to lynch

Yeah, I think I have to agree with you. (SHOCK, AWE)

I'm starting to think BBM is not the scums because the scums wouldn't persist on a point as terrible as that when at least one person has criticised it with a vote to accompany that.

##Unvote
##Vote: Affinity

GUT, and scummiest person alive as per previous mentioning when we take BBM out of the equation. Unless someone can rehash a convincing case on why IHNN must die today instead. Honestly, I'm kind of burnt out.

[Bardiche]

hw r u lovers wit shadoweh

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

maybe

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

bard r u lovers wit shadoweh, irl

[Bardiche]

bard r u lovers wit shadoweh, irl

If we were, would she really have overreacted as much as she has, what with the namecalling and such?

[BigBangMeteor]

See, generally in games with flavour that other people know, the mafia are given character fakes, because a character claim would otherwise break the game. You saying that your character is a love interest doesn't really mean anything because you could be lying, and the character you're saying you are might not be in the game at all. On the other hand, there is a claimed role that confirms the existence of Kotarou in the game. So that makes me think that Shadoweh is town.

Prims, if you think the flavourlogic is bad, why do you think Shadoweh is town?

[Affinity]

affinity you should swing the wagons to ihnn, if i need to write a bbm defense to convince you i'll do it

I admit BBM's last posts have made me feel cozy inside, but I'm afraid his opinions post barely cuts it for me.  He seems like he's describing people in terms of verbs and adjectives, not so much content.  It's a bit empty-sounding.  Yes, they're townreads, but shouldn't he be referring to things other people said about them?

What would your defence be like anyways?  I think this is the first time I've asked this question, but you are like a bit of a guru in MotK nowadays.

I guess his IHNN vote is a nice change (to me), and his Bard/Shadoweh townread is interesting.  But hm.

[Raikaria]

2) Play to win and have fun.

Just reminding everyone of this rule and the fact that if Huh What is claiming 3rd party with anything to do with Shadoweh, we cannot trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

It's like 2am. Can't be asked to do much else. I'll say the sole reason I'm not voting HW over Shadoweh right now is possible Jester/Fool.

We should take every chance to stop Huh What's intentions as well.

[Serela]

I should probably apologize about how horribly lazy my post this morning was. It's hard to get past :effort: because of reasons.

Shadoweh/Huhwhat issues (Why is this even still a thing, like what the fuck, it's so straightforward)
-HW will remove himself from the game tonight if we don't lynch Shadoweh
So why would you want to lynch Shadoweh? You can try to lynch Shadoweh tomorrow if you want to lynch Shadoweh. This should be an acceptable compromise.
-HW is lying and isn't actually going to remove himself from the game tonight because lulz
Well HW sure is gonna get lynched tomorrow, I guess, except this would make no sense and I don't even think it's worth paying any attention to. But yeah, if you doubt HW, HIS ROLE WILL BECOME OBVIOUS N2. Uh, probably.
-HW saying Shadoweh is confirmed town doesn't make her confirmed town
Yeah, I said this earlier, it doesn't. This isn't the reason we're not lynching Shadoweh, we're not lynching her because HW is gonna remove himself from the game tonight via her. If you want to lynch Shadoweh just let HW remove himself on her tonight and THEN lynch her.

I have no idea why people are still talking about HW/Shadoweh stuff, this is pretty simple. Honestly I haven't paid any attention to her because we're guaranteed not lynching her today, so don't ask me what I think about her alignment.

Affinity
DEPRESSION IS SCUM AFFINITY IN HW'S ANONYIDENTITYLIST okay I'm just kidding. Yeah, this is the main thing I feel bad about from earlier. I had reasons for not liking you but I was being too lazy to actually remember what they were, since I was groggy and post-limited and wanted to Get That Post Out There and had work and yep I sure am listing a bunch of silly excuses right now. I should stop doing that!

Upon reread, I can't even seem to remember what they are. >_> <_< I've been more interested in a IHNN lynch for a good while, in any case. If someone could like, restate the big points of the Affinity case, though?

I can't exactly find it. (Like, seriously, someone please summarize the Affinity case.)

BBM 589:this is How Not To Rolespec. Like, you can't get anything reliable out of stuff like that, ever. Also, HW's said that his role confirms Shadoweh as town to him, aka it probably says so in his rolepm. Assuming he isn't just lying about it, but it hardly matters either way.

Opinion on BBM:I agree with bad views of his earlier play, I also think his more recent stuff is better, would rather wait and see. Plus my silly flimsy things for thinking he's town from, so.

I'm rereading BT and I'm barely seeing any D2 stuff that's both Scumhunting and Not About Bard's Weirdness On HW+Shadoweh Shenanigan Funtimes. I really want to vote you! Please keep making it easier for me to maybe be able to justify it eventually! D:

Pretty tired from work , Getting Post Out There even though I should probably try to work on it more since I know I'll procrastinate for hours and likely not get more done on it anyway.

Cut from Raikaria:I'd rather have HW removed from play so we don't need to worry about him. Wins like this shouldn't get in the way of town's wincon, and HW isn't a pro-town entity we want to keep around. Lynching HW would literally be wasting a lynch, and if we're gonna lynch Shadoweh I'd much much rather do it after HW's taken care of himself so we don't have to worry about him more.

[Bardiche]

I hate to say this but I'm reading Serela as towniest and most lucid person. I'd almost want to sheep to him.

[Bardiche]

Serela are you scum being fed clarity by your scumbuddies

[Raikaria]

I should probably apologize about how horribly lazy my post this morning was. It's hard to get past :effort: because of reasons.

Shadoweh/Huhwhat issues (Why is this even still a thing, like what the fuck, it's so straightforward)
-HW will remove himself from the game tonight if we don't lynch Shadoweh
So why would you want to lynch Shadoweh? You can try to lynch Shadoweh tomorrow if you want to lynch Shadoweh. This should be an acceptable compromise.
-HW is lying and isn't actually going to remove himself from the game tonight because lulz
Well HW sure is gonna get lynched tomorrow, I guess, except this would make no sense and I don't even think it's worth paying any attention to. But yeah, if you doubt HW, HIS ROLE WILL BECOME OBVIOUS N2. Uh, probably.
-HW saying Shadoweh is confirmed town doesn't make her confirmed town
Yeah, I said this earlier, it doesn't. This isn't the reason we're not lynching Shadoweh, we're not lynching her because HW is gonna remove himself from the game tonight via her. If you want to lynch Shadoweh just let HW remove himself on her tonight and THEN lynch her.

I have no idea why people are still talking about HW/Shadoweh stuff, this is pretty simple. Honestly I haven't paid any attention to her because we're guaranteed not lynching her today, so don't ask me what I think about her alignment.

===

Cut from Raikaria:I'd rather have HW removed from play so we don't need to worry about him. Wins like this shouldn't get in the way of town's wincon, and HW isn't a pro-town entity we want to keep around. Lynching HW would literally be wasting a lynch, and if we're gonna lynch Shadoweh I'd much much rather do it after HW's taken care of himself so we don't have to worry about him more.

But we can't ignore it. Look at Rule #2.

Huh What is playing to his wincon if he is truly a 3rd party.

So why on earth are we trusting Huh What?

Why on earth are we doing what Huh What wants?

We should lynch either Huh What or Shadoweh today. Or else we are risking a 3rd party win.

Saying 'just let Huh What live and suicide' is letting the 3rd party do exactly as they want. Which may or may not result in the game ending N2.

Seriously. I'm concerned enough about this to try and intervene over lynching Affinity, because at least if Affinity lives another day the game won't end.

[Validon98]

since I was groggy and post-limited

So you ARE limited in some way?

[Validon98]

Also, yeah, the only reason I'm not voting for either HW or Shadoweh is the whole "does the game end or not" thing. Because if it does, then my vote will go to Shadoweh. If not, then we should let it slide.

[BigBangMeteor]

I express people mostly in terms of verbs and adjectives because as far as townreads go, faking content is easier to fake than tone and reactions. Nor do I particularly see a point in spending a lot of time analyzing the posts of my townreads.

Rai, Prims is ITP, yeah. But there's no real reason for him to lie unless it benefits him. I'm not taking everything he says to be true either (as I said earlier, not sure I believe that he targeted me and didn't kill Zak). All I'm taking to be true is that his role has something to do with Kotarou, which I believe because he's been talking about that since near the beginning of the game. If there are two kills at any point (and nobody claims a town killing role), I'll probably vote Prims. But at this point, whenever he actually bothers making content-posts, they're pretty decent, so I don't see a point in lynching him when he's not hurting town.

Did Prims ever say that his role PM says that Kotarou is town? AFAIK he's just been saying that he has to target Kotarou. If he did in fact say the former, then I've been derping for quite a while.

I reeeeeeally doubt that Prims winning ends the game, because the game could then end N1 in a town loss even if we played amazingly.

[Validon98]

Actually, screw it, why take the chance?

##Vote: Shadoweh

I don't want to risk a game end if we don't know whether or not the game will end.

Cut: He said the role PM said that, I think.