Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Pesco on June 04, 2010, 09:49:35 PM

Title: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Pesco on June 04, 2010, 09:49:35 PM
POS Mafia

Welcome to Mafia, where it's just you, your vote and your alignment that's out to win by getting rid of all the guys not on your team. We'll just be taking things nice and easy for the number of inexperienced people this game.

Stuff for GG

1. Day 1 lasts 48 hours. Day 2 to LyLo-minus-1 lasts 72 hours. LyLo lasts 144 hours. Nights will be number of hours between 24 and 48.
2. Leave any baggage you have at the door before beginning the game and after you finish. Argue as much within the game boundaries as you like but keep it civil. If you can't play nicely with everyone, then you can't play here at all.
3. Posts may not be longer than 300 words. The only time you may doublepost is for Edit By Way of Posting (EBWOP). An EBWOP may not be longer than 50 words in total.
4. Vote counts will be provided fairly often and will include a title that may indicate a time of day or something similar. When referring to another player's post, do not use post number, use the vote count title as a point of reference. Linking the post is advised according to the example below.
Quote from: Wrong way
Player said something in post#/here (http://www.link_example.com)
Quote from: Right way
Player said something around the time of vote count title (http://www.vote_counts_had_better_be_good.com)
5. If your role PM doesn't say whether you can do something or not, you may not. Still unsure, ask the mod. Most obvious one: Don't talk about the game outside of the game thread unless you have been allowed to.
6. Don't quote direct correspondence from the mod. Don't do it with screenshots or any other silly method that will get you modkilled either.
7. Modkills are punishments. Your team will suffer the consequences.
8. Lurkers are your problem and replacements are the mod's. If you are going to be away or unable to play, let the mod know and appropriate actions can be taken.
9. ##Vote and ##Unvote done as shown is required. The mod can't count something that is invisble.
10. Dead players are dead and gone until the game is over. No more posting once you have died.
11. Have fun raging at each other :3

Players alive
1. MSB
2. Kefit
3. Nietz
4. headcrabs
5. Choja
6. Zakeri
7. Sakana
8. Serp
9. Neo
10. HW
11. bofh
12. Ecthel Roukan

Players dead

headcrabs - Vanilla townie Lynched Day 1
huh what - Vanilla townie Killed Night 1
Serpentarius - Vanila townie Killed Night 1
Nietz - Bulletproof Townie Lynched Day 2
MSB - Vanilla townie Killed Night 2
Zakeri - Vanilla townie Killed Night 2
Roukanken - Vanilla Townie Killed Night 3
?lice Bl?ckb?rn - Mafia Rolecop Killed Night 3

Role PMs going out now.

You may begin once you have confirmed reading the rules.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 04, 2010, 10:11:01 PM
First!

confirmed
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 04, 2010, 10:11:35 PM
Morning hour of the rat

Voting

Nobody

Not voting: Everyone

12 alive, 7 votes for a lynch
Day 1 ends in 48 hours from the timestamp of this post.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2010, 10:12:06 PM
Confirm
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2010, 10:15:12 PM
Looks like we're not really doing a confirm phase?

Well /confirm anyway.

##Vote:Zakeri because seriously, we all know it's gonna happen :V

Last two games proved that Zakeri must die at the end of Day 1, even if there are TWO of him, and even if he ISN'T the lynch target :derp:
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
Confirmed

##Vote Serela
Gut.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 04, 2010, 10:25:17 PM
K, now that I've rebooted,

##Vote Nietz
He's #3, the scummiest bandwagon position!
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 04, 2010, 10:25:55 PM
Day 1 is usually slow because either:
1) The fact that you posted on day 1 will incriminate you.
2) The fact that you didn't post on day 1 will incriminate you.
Conclusion:  :V. Maybe you guys are different though.

In all seriousness, I can't apply math here because we don't know how many mafia there are. My normal approach is useless here! (http://xkcd.com/55/) I guess I'll just wait for now.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:27:00 PM
Day 1 is usually slow because either:
1) The fact that you posted on day 1 will incriminate you.
2) The fact that you didn't post on day 1 will incriminate you.
Conclusion:  :V. Maybe you guys are different though.

In all seriousness, I can't apply math here because we don't know how many mafia there are. My normal approach is useless here! (http://xkcd.com/55/) I guess I'll just wait for now.
so what are you trying to say and why are you avoiding jokevoting
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2010, 10:27:27 PM
##Vote: Neo Serela

If you believe I'm going to die before the dawn of day two, why do you insist it be by the town lynch instead of scum nightkill?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 04, 2010, 10:29:32 PM
My point is that (almost) all day 1 lynches are random.

My other point is that if we knew how many mafia there are (which we don't), we could figure out whether a no-lynch or a random lynch is better. Sadly, we can't.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2010, 10:31:39 PM
##Vote: Neo Serela

If you believe I'm going to die before the dawn of day two, why do you insist it be by the town lynch instead of scum nightkill?
Last game you died before D2 without being lynched AND you were scum

The previous game, both of you Zakeris died on day/night 1

It's obviously fate, there's no fighting it. If you're lynched, it's simply ORDAINED BY GOD(tm)
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:36:39 PM
Uhh not really. They're usually not well-founded, but they're not actually completely random. And if you believe the lynches are random, then why aren't you randomvoting to contribute? Even if RVS is incredibly stupid you aren't going to get it anywhere by saying "meh RVS is incredibly stupid" and not voting.

As for the scumcount, that's kind of blatantly obvious. Bringing it up at this stage is entirely pointless tbh.

Question for mod: Do words in quotes count towards the limit?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:37:05 PM
That was a response to Ecthel fyi. Avoiding using quotes till Pesco answers.

[pesco]They sure do. Even the tags counts since I'll be editing the posts to check :V[/pesco]
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2010, 10:38:24 PM
Go back and reread the question, Serela.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 04, 2010, 10:41:19 PM
Point taken about Day 1 lynches.

Also, the response to Zakeri's question was... interesting.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:41:43 PM
Also, the response to Zakeri's question was... interesting.
In what way?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2010, 10:42:55 PM
Oh crap need to be light on quoting. Should have seen that coming. Anyway~

Because it might be ORDAINED BY GODtm? D:

Ecthelninja:It's a jokevote okay, are you expecting actual reasoning >:
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 04, 2010, 10:44:51 PM
Ecthelninja:It's a jokevote okay, are you expecting actual reasoning >:
Yes :<

huh what: Because if he's going to die by scumkill (ORDAINED BY GODtm), that would mean he is probably a civilian. If he is a civilian, why would we waste one of valuable lynches on him?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2010, 10:49:21 PM
In what way?

In several I can think of.
I'll let it slide now, but Ecthel, you need to get into the habit of defining things in more detail than you think necessary.

Because it might be ORDAINED BY GODtm? D:

Strike two. I never contested my fate. In fact, I accepted it in passing when I asked. You're avoiding the question. The question is: "Why should I be taken out by the lynch, and not by scum/potential other nightkills?"
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serp on June 04, 2010, 10:49:51 PM
##Vote: headcrabs

Forgot my crowbar at home.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:50:19 PM
I don't get your logic at all. Serela was jokevoting, he doesn't actually know if Zakeri is going to get scumkilled or not, obv. This only remotely makes sense if you know Serela is scum somehow (meaning you're scumbuds), and even then you wouldn't even know if scum would kill Zakeri.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:50:41 PM
Responding to Ecthel again. Herpaderp.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2010, 10:53:02 PM
It's actually almost a legitimate response to Zakeri as well; y so srs about your question? There isn't any real answer for it at all, it's just a jokevote :V
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 04, 2010, 10:54:49 PM
Well if it's jokevotes I should just Take it easyTM.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:57:25 PM
Well if it's jokevotes I should just Take it easyTM.
I'd still like to know why you took Serela's word for it that Zak might die by NK when you shouldn't know Serela's alignment.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 04, 2010, 10:58:57 PM
Oh wow, I just realized Serela never even said Zak will die by NK, just that he'll die. Now you make even less sense.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 04, 2010, 11:00:23 PM
Mostly because on D1 there's not much information to work with, so I'll try to find anything. Although, I will admit it was kind of stupid to take it at face value.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2010, 11:04:07 PM
I can't take it easy like this.

My opinion of serela is set now. I'll explain why after everyone else gets a chance to comment.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nietz on June 04, 2010, 11:18:30 PM
##Vote Nietz
OH MY GOD U SUCK!!!1!
RAEEEEEEEG!
##Vote MSB

*ahem*

In several I can think of.
Can you define that in more detail? Even if you don't think necessary.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 05, 2010, 02:13:38 AM
Nietz: I DON'T SUCK! ;_;

No lynch would be pretty stupid on Day 1, as it'd give Day 2 nothing to work with. Why would you even need to choose between the no lynch or lynch, assuming something outlandish doesn't happen?

GJ putting so much effort into a joke vote, NS.

Meh, don't like Ecthel basically giving reasons to not to bother doing anything Day 1. Yes, there's no info and it's pretty random, but it'll eventually become useful, due to bandwagon analysis and such. Not bothering to do anything isn't going to help.

##Unvote
##Vote Ecthel
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 05, 2010, 02:44:04 AM
##Vote NeoSerela because I have a gut feeling and because I'm entitled to a joke vote too.
 :V


Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 05, 2010, 03:07:36 AM
##Unvote
##Vote Ecthel
Don't like the way he's been acting for the same reasons I've been pressuring him. His vote on Serela seems like he's trying to get the heat for not voting off of him without responding directly to the other issues. Also note that Serela has the most votes atm so he's kind of an easy target, though I guess this doesn't mean much since it's really really early D1.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 05, 2010, 03:10:05 AM
/confirm

Ecthel's bandwagon just there was scummy as hell. Not really liking his D1 attitude as well.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 05, 2010, 03:15:07 AM
Uhh not really. They're usually not well-founded, but they're not actually completely random. And if you believe the lynches are random, then why aren't you randomvoting to contribute? Even if RVS is incredibly stupid you aren't going to get it anywhere by saying "meh RVS is incredibly stupid" and not voting.
Yes, you do, if you actually start some sort of well-reasoned discussion instead of voting. Could be about current random votes, could be about past games, could be about playstyle. But in general, not voting during RVS is not as useless as everyone likely to claim it is.

The real point of D1 though is to give us a starting point for information for D2, both from the D1 lynch and, as Sodium Cyanate mentioned, from D1 wagonalysis. Thus, it is ultimately irrelevant whether RVS takes place or not, what is important is that some sort of wagon or wagons form and that someone gets lynched D1, preferably someone who is Scum.

Not sure what to make of Serela, but it feels more like just him being an idiot so far than anything else - Scum gain no advantage from making such a statement, at least this early-on in the game, and attract WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention onto themselves to trade for it.

Ecthel - honestly, so far reads like just a noob. See MEIN MAIDENKAMPF (http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/39355398/1769560) for what one should do with newbies who make stupid mistakes, etc.

Everyone else - we're not even on the second page and barely 12 hours into D1, holy god you guize post too much irrelevant nonsense too fast :V
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 05, 2010, 04:02:02 AM
This is the first time I've even heard of Ecthel (I can't even spell his name properly without looking it up), so I assume he's new. I don't see why we should break out the spiked paddle for his misconceptions of how Day one Works.

Alice is right. Random votes are a cause in the cause and effect relationship between voting and building cases. It's not the end all be all of the first 24 hours, and thinking that way gives scum a safe place to hide.

speaking of cause and effect, I don't buy huh what's case at all.
Quote from: Huh What
His vote on Serela seems like he's trying to get the heat for not voting off of him without responding directly to the other issues.
Of course he's trying to get the heat off of him. You're pressuring him. Being scum is not the cause here - survival instinct is.
He's responded to everything you asked him, and he's given his opinion between Serela and I. What other issues are you expecting him to comment on?
Serela isn't an easy target. Having the largest bandwagon doesn't automatically make one an easy target, it's having a readily throw-away-able excuse to vote that person. It's not as if his vote came out of left field, either.

Neitz, I said in the post before yours that I would explain it in detail later. Most likely tomorrow morning when I wake up. I think the way Serela answered implied scum-based logic.

Mod: Which word counter do you plan on using? There are several on the net that count differently.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Kitten4u on June 05, 2010, 04:17:10 AM
Morning Hour of the Ox

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): Nietz
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
headcrabs (1): Serpentarius
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (1): NeoSerela
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
Serpentarius (0):
NeoSerela (2): Zakeri, Ecthel
huh what (0):
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (2): MakaiSouvenirBooth, huh what

Not Voting:  Kefit, headcrabs, Nat Tea, Moe Moe Sakanespierre, ?lice Bl?ckb?rn

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in ~42 hours

Zak: I'll let Pesco answer that when he gets on so that we're using the same one.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 05, 2010, 04:41:53 AM
Ecthel - honestly, so far reads like just a noob.
I blame not playing mafia in 8 months.

I'd talk more but if if I'm caught on here past 12 bad thingstm would happen.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 05, 2010, 05:39:18 AM
I copy paste your post as the quote box gives me into a word processor and press word count.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nat Tea on June 05, 2010, 06:06:42 AM
/confirm

Uhhh, NeoSerela, do you really have to do things like that? It's a bit crazy of you to say, "Look! Due to these circumstances and the time of the weather, it's Zakeri!"

And then you change your vote as soon as someone accuses you of something.

Really?

##Vote: NeoSerela
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 05, 2010, 06:12:48 AM
Guillotine, set up.

Ready for derp-off in 3...2...1...

#Vote Nat Tea   Good morning~

Haven't made up my mind about Ecthel/Serela yet, so random vote for now.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2010, 10:15:57 AM
Uhhh, NeoSerela, do you really have to do things like that? It's a bit crazy of you to say, "Look! Due to these circumstances and the time of the weather, it's Zakeri!"
Quote from: Zakeri
I think the way Serela answered implied scum-based logic.

People, it's a JOKEVOTE for godsakes. There isn't ANY logic in it. That's, uh, kind of what people do at the very very start of D1, you know?

And then you change your vote as soon as someone accuses you of something.

Really?
Erm what. I never changed my vote.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nat Tea on June 05, 2010, 11:12:38 AM
People, it's a JOKEVOTE for godsakes. There isn't ANY logic in it. That's, uh, kind of what people do at the very very start of D1, you know?

Erm what. I never changed my vote.
It's a jokevote until Kitten4u writes it down as a real vote~
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 05, 2010, 12:40:22 PM
Morning Hour of the Tiger

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): Nietz
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
headcrabs (1): Serpentarius
Nat Tea (1): Sakana
Zakeri (1): NeoSerela
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
Serpentarius (0):
NeoSerela (3): Zakeri, Ecthel, Nat Tea
huh what (0):
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (2): MakaiSouvenirBooth, huh what

Not Voting:  Kefit, headcrabs, ?lice Bl?ckb?rn

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in ~34 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serp on June 05, 2010, 03:21:22 PM
Lots of newbie derp so far.  Ecthel seems oddly slow to catch on to the idea of random voting.  Choja's even slower.  That's only scummy in the sense that bad play is always scummy.

I'd like clarification from Alice on something from his last post.  Just which statement were you talking about when you said that Scum-Neo would gain no advantage by making "such a statement"?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 05, 2010, 03:45:18 PM
I'd like clarification from Alice on something from his last post.  Just which statement were you talking about when you said that Scum-Neo would gain no advantage by making "such a statement"?
Pressing the Zakeri-dies-early point. The first post was just a jokevote, but his subsequent posts seem to indicate a case of nothing more than just him being a noob/derp than an actual Scummy attack on someone, it seems too painfully obvious and blatant, not to mention not something that seems like it'd get much traction as a wagon, and thus I'm slightly perplexed as to why some people (Zakeri, possibly others) are considering what he said as a potential Scumtell.

@Choja: what in the name of Monosodium Glutamate are you talking about? NeoSerela never switched votes, and I can't see K4U accidentally misattributing NeoSerela's vote in his post. Read the thread, please, I don't want to be dealing with another wrathie on my hands.

Also, I checked the edit history of that post and the only thing you added in in the edit was the "/Confirmed", and seeing as you're new to mafia and this is still ED1 I am willing to ignore that (who knows that the mods will, though), but please do not edit your posts from now on, EBWOP instead, please (i.e. make corrections in a subsequent poast (whee multi-poast drifting)).
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 05, 2010, 03:46:27 PM
EBWOP: "who knows what the mods will do"*
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 05, 2010, 04:17:53 PM
Guys, you don't random vote if there's actual discussion. Nor do you contemplate which wagon to join in broad daylight. =V


Ecthel seems way too concerned with survival and defending himself, but I think he's derpTown, because his vote doesn't make sense if he were scum. Going "I can has joke voat too" isn't exactly what I'd think scum would do to get pressure off themselves. It could be derpScum, but I would think they'd try looking for a better reason to vote someone.

headcrabs does nothing except claim something is scummy. Awesome. Why is it scummy outside "oh noes, 2nd vote on NS"?
##Unvote
##Vote: headcrabs 
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nat Tea on June 05, 2010, 07:40:37 PM
Lots of newbie derp so far.  Ecthel seems oddly slow to catch on to the idea of random voting.  Choja's even slower.  That's only scummy in the sense that bad play is always scummy.
I'm inept at a lot of things. I also ruin a lot of things.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serpentarius


@Choja: what in the name of Monosodium Glutamate are you talking about? NeoSerela never switched votes, and I can't see K4U accidentally misattributing NeoSerela's vote in his post. Read the thread, please, I don't want to be dealing with another wrathie on my hands.
I would like to say that I was absolutely delirious at that time and wasn't actually reading Kitten4u's report right. Or at all. Whoops.

Also, I checked the edit history of that post and the only thing you added in in the edit was the "/Confirmed", and seeing as you're new to mafia and this is still ED1 I am willing to ignore that (who knows that the mods will, though), but please do not edit your posts from now on, EBWOP instead, please (i.e. make corrections in a subsequent poast (whee multi-poast drifting)).
I was actually expecting a modkill because of the above note of being incredibly delirious and forgetting that that is a really bad idea.

Ironically, that would mean I didn't actually read the rules and yet I still /confirm'd. Hoorah.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2010, 08:10:55 PM
Where is Kefit? Been about 20 hours since game start. I really don't see why someone wouldn't have posted during random vote phase on purpose though, so eh.

Unvote, ##Vote:Kefit LOVE TAP FOR MOTIVATION

headcrabs DID post, but didn't really do anything, during the one point where you can pretty much vote anyone for no reason and be fine... hmm.  And while I'm speaking of people lacking votes, Alice has posted some of the most words, yet there isn't a vote within any of those, either.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 05, 2010, 09:59:17 PM
If Serela's Timestamp matches my clock, it's been about 22 hours now. That's given everyone enough time to comment. Plus, I'm tired of waiting.

It's true scum Serela didn't really have a reason to do what he's done so far, but Serela has already claimed that, and I believe it. The scumtell I'm talking about is a slip, not an intended result.

I asked Serela: "why do you insist it be by the town lynch instead of scum nightkill?"
Serela Answered: "It's obviously fate, there's no fighting it. If you're lynched, it's simply ORDAINED BY GOD(tm)"

He directly avoided answering the question, and continued to push for the lynch. An obvious answer to the question would be because I was scum, and therefore can't or won't be targeted by the scumkill. I believe the thought to answer like this never occurred to Serela, because he knew I was town, yet continued to pursue me with a vote.

I'm not moving my vote right now.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2010, 10:09:27 PM
Quote
He directly avoided answering the question, and continued to push for the lynch.
Continued to push for the lynch? Oh yes, because a complete jokevote is actually going to go ANYWHERE near a lynch, at all.

Quote
An obvious answer to the question would be because I was scum, and therefore can't or won't be targeted by the scumkill.
For :V reasons, I'd like to mention how last game you were scum, wasn't the D1 lynch, and STILL died on N1 :3

The "thought to answer like this" didn't occur to me because I was trying to be amusing instead of serious, because it's a jokevote, and I wasn't taking anything seriously at all. I mean, why would I be seriously questioned about the lolreasoning for a vote like that?

Not really feeling great towards Zak being so aggressive towards me over something like this, but then again, it's early D1, so it's not like there's anything else to be going on.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 05, 2010, 10:13:49 PM
NeoSerela: First off, Kefit said he'd be a bit inactive until Monday, in the signup topic. Secondly, that vote is horribad because "Oh noes, someone isn't here ED1! Weak Prod GO!".  Lastly, the other part of your post sucks because it's IIoA.

Choja: Why are you voting Serp again?


Zakeri: I think that's more or less evidence that NS didn't read that question properly. =V


NS Ninja
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nat Tea on June 05, 2010, 10:15:27 PM
And while I'm speaking of people lacking votes, Alice has posted some of the most words, yet there isn't a vote within any of those, either.
Eh, it's not like Alice is suspect of anything for not voting, maybe she just likes to edge close to that 300 word limit. Nothing wrong there.

Besides, it's better to know how you screwed up and get punched in the face than for the fist to be coming out of the blue, truth be told.

Thanks, Alice!
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2010, 10:43:46 PM
MSB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg354223#msg354223):Oh, whoops. Well, no point in having a pokevote on him in that case. And I thought pokevotes were fine (at least compared to jokevotes), since one was used on me last game only slightly farther into D1. ##Unvote And there really isn't much information to analyze at this point; that's what D1 is for, getting information to analyze, I'm sure we'll have plenty of it shortly :D Most of the stuff right now is newbies being newbies+me never saying the right thing.

Fairly sure Choja's Serpvote is "let's have random ED1 votes" but that's for him to answer, of course.

And yeah, Alice is looking fine, I just thought it was slightly strange how there wasn't any vote. It's not like headcrabs, who didn't really even say anything along with votelack. Waiting for the next headcrabs post actually, I'm interested in what he'll do. Him and Aggress!Zak are who I'm paying attention to right now, although I'll probably dismiss them afterwords as "ehh ED1" when we've got more stuff to look at.

Oh, I have a vote to use now. Coinflip on Zak and headcrabs! And it's tails. ##Vote:Zakeri



Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 05, 2010, 10:53:34 PM
Morning Hour of the Rabbit

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): Nietz
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
headcrabs (2): Serpentarius, MSB
Nat Tea (1): Sakana
Zakeri (1): NeoSerela
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
Serpentarius (1): Nat Tea
NeoSerela (2): Zakeri, Ecthel
huh what (0):
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (1): huh what

Not Voting:  Kefit, headcrabs, ?lice Bl?ckb?rn

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in ~23 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2010, 10:55:12 PM
Quote
NeoSerela (2):  Zakeri, Ecthel, Nat Tea
Forgot to remove Choja's vote, there >:
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nietz on June 05, 2010, 10:56:07 PM
##Unvote
##Vote huh waht


His actions towards on Serela and Ecthel look like trying to capitalize on newbie mistakes to look like scumhunting. It's not strongly scummy, but it's a clasicall scum trick for D1.

But Choja's unexplained OMGUS on Serp also looks pretty bad. Was that supposed to be a jokevote?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Nat Tea on June 06, 2010, 01:47:03 AM
Fairly sure Choja's Serpvote is "let's have random ED1 votes" but that's for him to answer, of course.
You've hit it fairly on the mark.

Serp remarked that I didn't get the point of a randomvote, so I just went and got ahead with it. It's not like anyone does get killed on D1 (and if they did, it would be a horribly ridiculous stroke of bad luck).
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 01:56:33 AM
It's not like anyone does get killed on D1 (and if they did, it would be a horribly ridiculous stroke of bad luck).
This brings up an important point.

Pesco, what's the policy for days ending with no vote majority towards a lynch? I didn't see anything about that in the rules.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 06, 2010, 03:33:13 AM
Don't jokevote when there's actual discussion, k thx.

What do you mean no one dies D1? And even if that were true, it wouldn't be a reason to be stupid.

NS: So what was the point of pointing out how Alice and headcrabs didn't vote? You just say Alice is completely fine after bringing it up, and you avoided making a direct judgement on headcrabs.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 03:47:34 AM
MSB:headcrabs has made one post. One very, very small post. I really don't think there's enough to pass any kind of judgment past suspicion, nor is the lack of it significant enough to compensate this early on in the game.

I still want to see a vote from both of them, of course, and the longer they go without, the more suspicious I'll get. Alice has at least actually been contributing, so headcrabs is definitely looking worse and receiving more of my focus.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Kitten4u on June 06, 2010, 05:07:43 AM
Morning Hour of the Dragon

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (0):
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
headcrabs (2): Serpentarius, MSB
Nat Tea (1): Sakana
Zakeri (1): NeoSerela
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
Serpentarius (1): Nat Tea
NeoSerela (2): Zakeri, Ecthel
huh what (1): Nietz
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (1): huh what

Not Voting:  Kefit, headcrabs, ?lice Bl?ckb?rn

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in ~17 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serp on June 06, 2010, 05:50:12 AM
Deadline's creeping up on us.

Currently fine with a few lynches.  My vote on headcrabs will stay because I don't like the way that he shows up, cheerleads a budding bandwagon, then disappears.  Wouldn't mind lynching Choja either since he's basically wrathie.  Also not liking the way that Ecthel was looking to be the token newbie bandwagon, then suddenly disappeared as soon as attention drifted elsewhere.

Kefit and Sakana also need to show up and give some real opinions.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 06, 2010, 06:09:02 AM
##Unvote

Choja has been acting weird, but not in a way that I can see would benefit scum.

Likewise for Serela. I doubt scum would let him draw this much attention on D1.

Would like to see something from Ecthel again, since he's been silent after the early debate.

For now, going to ##Vote headcrabs

Point has been made already: Said the wagon on Ecthel was scummy without explaining what he means or putting down a vote. He seems worth putting some pressure on.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 06, 2010, 06:10:32 AM
EBWOP: Misread on my part. Headcrabs said Ecthel's bandwagoning was scummy, not a wagon on him.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 06, 2010, 06:24:35 AM
No majority, no lynch
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2010, 04:27:06 PM
Serela -"I was trying to be amusing instead of serious"
I didn't expect a Serious answer. I expected a direct answer. It could have just said "Obvscum" and I'd have dropped it.

MSB - "evidence that NS didn't read that question properly."
I asked twice. I warned him to read it carefully. I gave him three chances to answer.
I still think it's a scumslip.

Ecthel can wait until day 2 to be looked at. If he wants a good image then, he should post soon. I'm okay with the lynch for now.

Serpentarius - "Wouldn't mind lynching Choja either since he's basically wrathie."
For me a Wrathie is a person that can only be lynched day one because his foolishness gives him a town clear for the rest of the game. Anyone who's too dumb to be insincere is a godsend to a thinking town. He may be obfuscating, but that will be much harder to hide in later days.

As for Headcrabs, I don't genuinely believe in Cheerleading on day one, but there's enough scummy points between adding nothing to discussion and active lurking to be okay with a lynch on him.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 04:51:05 PM
If I'm reading timestamps right, headcrabs hasn't done anything past going "newb randomvoting on someone who already had 1 vote, so scummy" and then disappearing for the last... about 36 hours. Certainly looks worse then anyone else so far. Zakeri doesn't really seem all that bad, now that I think about it; was probably mostly kept on him by the fact I was already there, and the others worth voting were just being derps. Unvote, Vote:headcrabs

Besides, it's pretty much agreed that having a lynch on D1 is better then NOT having one, and deadline is only a matter of hours away.

Would be fine with an Ecthel lynch, his play looks slightly more dumbscum then dumbtown; pseudocontributing and avoiding making a jokevote for all of page 1, then disappearing after he makes one.

Choja just looks like derptown. This can actually be bad depending on HOW derpy he is (Wrathie selfvoting on LYLO, Zent fakeclaiming and admitting to it on LYLO), but he's probably not worth lynching over that.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
EBWOP:Messed up proper vote formatting. ##Vote:headcrabs
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 06, 2010, 05:45:20 PM
I wasn't voting because D1 random voting and bandwagoning is the easiest point in the game for scum to justify random votes on town. i don't like it.

##Unvote
##Vote huh waht


His actions towards on Serela and Ecthel look like trying to capitalize on newbie mistakes to look like scumhunting. It's not strongly scummy, but it's a clasicall scum trick for D1.

But Choja's unexplained OMGUS on Serp also looks pretty bad. Was that supposed to be a jokevote?

On this, I haven't liked Nietz's current state with him flying under the radar like this. yes I know pot calling the kettle black, etc.
##Vote: Nietz
Nothing's wrong with capitalizing on newbie mistakes. Especially if the newbie is mafia. I don't believe in the newbie's defense argument, it's a poor way to argue yourself out of mistakes.

Though, I will agree that huh what's vote seemed like a quick slip on a potential bandwagon. I'm just not truly getting a scum vibe from him at this point. This is why I didn't vote for him in the first place when I said the bandwagon was scummy.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 06, 2010, 06:11:24 PM
Morning Hour of the Snake

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (0):
Kefit (0):
Nietz (1): headcrabs
headcrabs (4): Serpentarius, MSB, Sakana, NeoSerela
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
Serpentarius (1): Nat Tea
NeoSerela (2): Zakeri, Ecthel
huh what (1): Nietz
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (1): huh what

Not Voting:  Kefit,  ?lice Bl?ckb?rn

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in ~4.5 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 06, 2010, 06:50:43 PM
headcrabs: Are you seriously saying you didn't vote ED1 because scum can easily justify ED1 votes? -_- There are good reasons for not voting ED1, but that isn't one of them.
There's a difference between newbTown and newbScum.
What the hell are you talking about in that last sentence? You said that Ecthel was scummy for bandwagoning, not  HW.

Zakeri: Fair enough.

Keeping my vote on headcrabs. NeoSerela's vote on headcrabs is bugging me because he went from "not enough content for more than just suspicions" to "he's the worst, 36 hours without posting". Ecthel could use a post.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 07:02:38 PM
headcrabs: Are you seriously saying you didn't vote ED1 because scum can easily justify ED1 votes? NeoSerela's vote on headcrabs is bugging me because he went from "not enough content for more than just suspicions" to "he's the worst, 36 hours without posting". Ecthel could use a post.
Let me bring up something else I said in that post; "nor is the lack of it significant enough to compensate this early on in the game.".

After doing what little he did and then absolutely nothing for 36 hours, I decided the lack was significant enough.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Ecthel on June 06, 2010, 07:31:40 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Headcrabs

He's been even less active than me, which is something of an accomplishment. I'm also inclined to believe a random lynch would be better than a NL in this case.
About jokevoting: The first game I ever played of mafia highly discouraged it, so  :V.

I have a few thoughts now that Ive read everything, but I'll keep them to myself until d2 since headcrabs will most like be lynched anyways.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Kefit on June 06, 2010, 08:08:20 PM
Oh god this game started at the worst time possible.

My thoughts at the moment are ##Vote: Ecthel. Why? Because he started off by slinging meaningless filler around, such as

Also, the response to Zakeri's question was... interesting.

Then he stopped posting for a long time, until he had MORE meaningless filler to present to us:

I have a few thoughts now that Ive read everything, but I'll keep them to myself until d2 since headcrabs will most like be lynched anyways.

It is not in town's interest to hold back information like this! If Ecthel were one of our more garrulous posters then he might have to worry about the word limit getting in the way of a full disclosure of his thoughts, but his posts clearly evince that this is not the case. Instead of actually contributing to the game, Ecthel has been trying to fly under the radar by simply stating that he has substantive cases and opinions without actually telling us what they are. In other words, active lurking.

Other thoughts:

Don't like the way that Zak decided that his "opinion of serela [was] set" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg353548#msg353548) when it was still early d1.

I'm not seeing anything lynch-worthy with Neo yet. His banter about Zak's imminent early death seems more to me like musing about how Kilga is going to die n1 than it does a scum making a preemptive boast. Which isn't great, but not damning.

Re: headcrabs - It's the wrong time to be jumping on people for lack of activity. That should be saved for d2. His first post was certainly rather weak, but his more recent post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg354839#msg354839) passes my d1 standards test. I also appreciate the manner in which he has eschewed a lengthy defense of himself in favor of at least an attempt at scumhunting.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 09:12:54 PM
Deadline is in about an hour and a half, guys. Unless we actually want to have a NoLynch (and I haven't seen a single person who does so far), we need to get someone to 7 votes.

headcrabs doesn't look as bad anymore, but given the choices, I could still get behind a headcrabs or Ecthel lynch. But even if we all started switching to Ecthel right now, I dunno if enough people would do it in time for deadline.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2010, 09:18:56 PM
I'm disappointed in the fact that we only managed to have one bandwagon.
I sort of miss the usual suspects stiring things up.

Still, I'm not entire certain if this is all bad. I'll have to wait and see what comes up.

I said I'd chip in to either an Ecthel or a Headcrabs lynch, and since we only have an hour left (In which I won't be here) I'll go ahead and switch now.

##Unvote: Neo Serela
##Vote: Headcrabs
(L-1)
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Sodium on June 06, 2010, 09:22:18 PM
His recent post was a chainsaw defence of HW, and then proceeding to get something he did wrong. =V How is that good?


Ecthel: Uh yeah. That post is horrible. I think you've said less than headcrabs.


Meh, fine with headcrabs, Ecthel or NS lynch.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 06, 2010, 09:25:34 PM
First of all, ##Unvote

Nietz #57: Was mainly targeting and voting Ecthel in an attempt to pressure him for reactions and start something. But then he never really reacted to my vote, so eh. Also, when did I go after Serela? I only mentioned him in response to Ecthel.

Crabs #70: You paragraph about me really confuses me, since that wasn't even Nietz's reasons for voting me, but ok. And capitalizing on newbie mistakes isn't honestly that great because if the mistakes are that bad they become an easy mislynch for scum. The thing is that I wasn't really trying to capitalize on the mistakes as much as trying to get reactions, but w/e.

Don't like Serela's vote on Zak, seems like a straight OMGUS to me since he never really mentioned his reasons for voting him. Serela in general has been terribad so far actually (stuff like Kefitvote etc), but w/e. Seems more like bad play than scummy. Don't see why Serela was voting Zak over headcrabs beyond coinflip, since he seemed to have more against headcrabs.

##Vote Serela
Tbh I don't feel that bad about anybody at the moment, but Serela's jumps seem kind of odd to me. They give me the impression of scum not really knowing how to mislynch and constantly switching votes with minor reasoning just to see how it'll work out. His jump to Crabs in particular seems like he's going "oh I guess Zak wasn't that great of an idea, well I already mentioned Crabs so wheee wagons"
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 06, 2010, 09:38:34 PM
EBWOP: Oh wait.
Quote
When referring to another player's post, do not use post number, use the vote count title as a point of reference. Linking the post is advised according to the example below.
I totally missed this. Is this just a reccomendation or an actual hard rule?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Kitten4u on June 06, 2010, 09:45:04 PM
Morning Hour of the Horse

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (0):
Kefit (0):
Nietz (1): headcrabs
headcrabs (6): Serpentarius, MSB, Sakana, NeoSerela, Ecthel, Zakeri
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
Serpentarius (1): Nat Tea
NeoSerela (1): huh what
huh what (1): Nietz
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (1): Kefit

Not Voting: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in ~15 minutes

headcrabs is at L-1
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
Quote
His jump to Crabs in particular seems like he's going "oh I guess Zak wasn't that great of an idea, well I already mentioned Crabs so wheee wagons"
I'm still not loving Zak for going after me ruthlessly over just my response to a jokevote question. But it seemed more important to prevent a nolynch from happening at the moment, and still kind of is; about an hour left till deadline.

On that matter, choosing to vote me for being slightly more suspicious, over making sure a lynch actually happens, doesn't seem like great play. I really doubt it's possible for anyone other then headcrabs (or perhaps Ecthel) to even garner 7 votes in this last hour, purely because enough people won't be here in time to change their vote.

Kittenninja:Woah wait only 15 minutes left? Holy crap, I though we had nearly an hour left.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 06, 2010, 09:52:10 PM
Wow, didn't realize how little time we had left. Serela is the only person I really want lynched, but I'm willing to hammer in crabs if necessary to avoid nl.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serp on June 06, 2010, 09:53:26 PM
You'd better hammer now.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 06, 2010, 09:54:46 PM
##Unvote
##Vote headcrabs
Meh.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Kitten4u on June 06, 2010, 10:00:16 PM
Quote
Kittenninja:Woah wait only 15 minutes left? Holy crap, I though we had nearly an hour left.
Shit you're right.  Math fail on my part. x:  Sorry about that.

Hammer was dropped before I could fix this though. *shame*

headcrabs was lynched!  He was a  Vanilla Townie.  It is now night 1.  All actions are due between 24 and 48 hours.  Please send them to both Pesco and me.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 06, 2010, 10:01:03 PM
...gdi. I knew I should have doublechecked the time before hammering. Sorry crabs.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2010, 10:04:37 PM
Checked Pesco's second post, it was at June 04, 2010, 10:11:35 pm... so we only had like 26 minutes anyway. So K4U was only 11 minutes off.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 08, 2010, 11:14:42 AM

Huh what died during the night. He was a vanilla townie
Serpentarius died during the night. He was a vanilla townie

Morning hour of the Sheep

Voting: Nobody

Not voting: Everyone

9 alive, 5 votes for a lynch
72 hours remain


Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 08, 2010, 12:40:47 PM
Without doing any great rereads or anything, I'll go with my gut and ##Vote: NeoSerela for now.

One point is the debate with Zak, another his weird sudden jump on headcrabs.
Not entirely convinced myself though, since he's been drawing far more attention than scum should want.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 08, 2010, 01:22:04 PM
I'm still puzzled on how headcrabs managed to get lynched by a landslide.

There's a lot of discrepancy with Ecthel, what withKefit's reasoning hanging over him. However, I am thinking about my vote for Day 2.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 08, 2010, 01:24:13 PM
EBWOP:

Hey, since it *is* Day 2, I wanna know what's so secret and fantastic about Ecthel's thoughts in the first place!
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 08, 2010, 04:47:00 PM
Grate. First off, rereading the beginning of D1 I'm reminded of just how spectacularly dumb ED1 tends to be, and even then this game seems to be an outlier or something. Christ, Ecthel, it's a jokevote, how are you expecting it to be serious? Off what information can you even base a serious vote about FOUR HOURS INTO DAY FREAKING ONE?

Zakeri: while I see your point, at the same time, it really was just a jokevote, which is why I'm not going to read too much into NeoSerela sidestepping your question. Hmm. Not sure, actually. Interesting point, will consider it.

Anyway, that's enough of that. Time for some wagonalysis on the headcrabs wagon, which really is quite bizarre in how it came about:
Serp - Jokevote
Sodium Hydrogen Phosphate - Not liking this post at all. Seriously. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg353996#msg353996) There's a lot of discussion about Ecthel, reaching the conclusion that he's DerpTown (plausible imho), and then about two lines about headcrabs, followed by what is basically a ProdVote(TM) (see below on discussion as to why ProdVotes(TM) are bad and also INCREDIBLY Scummy) on headcrabs, moving off of NEETz. Anyway, looks pretty bad, will elaborate below. Continuing on with the wagon... (note that it's something like a day into D1 and headcrabs is at L-5.
Sakana - Deadline ProdVote (which is far less awful than the general case, but still bad), for charges of... cheerleading a wagon without voting, and not being around in the later portion of the day. This is not someone you lynch D1, LAL does not work on D1. Do not make me bring out der F?hrer himself to explain this to you guize, seriously.
NeoSerela - herp derp headcrabs has vanished for 36 hours and we need to lynch someone WHY NOT LYNCH HIM. Awful, for reasons which should be painfully obvious and partly stated above for Sakana, but to elaborate here on reasons specific to Serela: hopping on an inactive D1 is really easy, as they cannot defend themselves, and given the choice between someone you actually think is Scummy by your own admission (i.e. Ecthel), you vote for the inactive instead. Why?


Everything after this is over the word limit

Ecthel - Godawful, but the "it's-him-or-me" argument is not inherently a Scummy one. Apart from that, Ecthel's awfulness has already been discussed in-thread so far to death, I'm not sure what to make of him personally but I'm still leaning DerpTown atm, with a slight bit of doubt to it (some of his statements aren't just dumb, but also Scummy and dumb, for instance his statement on a random lynch being better than No Lynch - which is true, but a false dichotomy, especially given there still being about 5 hours in the day, and NeoSerela at minimum as an alternate wagon - why have you said practically nothing about NeoSerela, Ecthel?)
Zakeri, h_w - Deadline Switch, Quasi-Ninja-Hammer. Nothing really to say here, mostly null tells all around.

If Scum are likely to be on such a wagon (which is extremely likely), they'd probably be near the middle, and sure enough, there's plenty of awful to be traded between Sodium Carbonate and NeoSerela. At this moment, I think that Sodium Thiocyanate looks slllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllightly worse, therefore ##Vote: Sodium Levothyroxine

As for why ProdVotes(TM) are Scummy: because they're an easy way to park a vote: if the person never responds, they can't fight back and whee, EasyLynch(TM), and if they do, such votes are removed upon seeing any content, not necessarily good-quality content (if a vote is placed as a ProdVote(TM) but then stays upon seeing bad content from the person in question who just returned, it is no longer inherently Scummy as a ProdVote(TM) anymore, for instance), and thus just an easy, safe way to park a vote with no danger of accidentally lynching a Scumbuddy or accidentally being on a really awful Townie wagon that makes you look extremely suspicious. Ergo, don't do this: if someone is lurking, LAL. If someone is being inactive to the point where modprods occur, let the mod take care of it. If he's habitually posting only as a result of being prodded by the mod, see: LAL. Otherwise, don't vote someone just because he isn't around: LAL does not work that way guize. Christ.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 08, 2010, 05:50:46 PM
I'm still puzzled on how headcrabs managed to get lynched by a landslide.

Scum Votes, and Scum Need.

(I have errands and I need to go run them before I can reread, but right now, I have enough suspicion left over from yesterday to ##Vote: Serela Jeff)
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 08, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
Edit: Scratch that. Lunch break.

Don't like Serela using the word "Jokevote" as a security blanket to cover up what I first exposed. Lurker prod is bad. Fence sits on opinion of me. Suspicious of "coinflip". Suddenly flips to Headcrabs due to ensuring wagon. Scum must ensure, too.

Fit's EBWOP Rules.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 08, 2010, 08:48:35 PM
Alice: My vote wasn't a prod vote. It was because he called something scummy without saying why, and nothing else. When he posted, I didn't move my vote because he randomly did a chainsaw defense of HW for no reason.
I moved off Ecthel to headcrabs btw.
...Don't see how me being the first to vote headcrabs(Serp's was originally a jokevote) to vote headcrabs constituents as "middle", but okay.

Pesco: If a vote is past word limit, does it count?

Choja: Cool Story Bro. Who's scum and why? Don't try to make it seem like you're doing stuff.

##Vote Sakana
Placing a garbage vote in the middle of the day because he couldn't choose between Serela and Ecthel. Doesn't say any reason for him to vote Serela or Ecthel, only that he's choosing between the two.
Weird vote on headcrabs. Pressure voting isn't something you do in the last 24h. Also not one of the above two that he said he was going to choose between, yet it was his first mention of headcrabs at all.


Sakana seems to be the most likely person to be scum who tried to get the headcrabs vote guaranteed. Him not voting either Serela or Ecthel and instead going for a joke vote to me seems like he was getting ready to vote whoever would be leading at the end of the day.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2010, 08:52:57 PM
I don't see anything in the case on me that can't be attributed to dumbtown instead of dumbscum, and anyone who played in the last two games already knows how totally awesome I am at Mafia :V Not bad at all for a case built off of D1 material, but it mostly looks like bad play and not scumminess.

Anyway, ##Vote:Ecthel. Ecthel has been discussed to death as Alice said and there really isn't anything new to add on him, but I'll briefly review. His Page 1 posts consist completely of avoiding having to make a jokevote, and talking a good bit without actually contributing anything at all. Finally he throws a jokevote on me and leaves for quite awhile, only to return at the very end and throw a vote onto our dear headcrabs wagon, now at L-2, and say "oh I have opinions but I'll just wait and say them later".

In other words, he hasn't really contributed at all for the entire game except sending headcrabs to L-2, and many of his posts are just excuses as to why he isn't contributing yet. Sounds pretty scummy to me.

Also, Pesco, what happens when someone goes over the word limit like Alice did? Since nothing seems to have happened, is the first violation just a warning, and the next is modkill or something?



Title: Re: POS Mafia Day1 Begin!
Post by: Pesco on June 08, 2010, 09:33:21 PM
Morning Hour of the Monkey

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (1): MSB
NeoSerela (2): Sakana, Zakeri
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (1): NeoSerela

Not Voting: Kefit, Nietz, Nat Tea, Ecthel

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~62 hours

I mark off where you went over and tell you not to do it again. Warning first and then something not very nice will happen.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 08, 2010, 09:47:48 PM
MSB: I'm not seeing where my vote on headcrabs was a garbage vote. There were valid reasons to vote him over Ecthel/Serela, since his contributions were not helpful to Town at all, which implied possible Scum.
I was indeed ready to jump on Ecthel or Serela, had one of them shown clear scummy behavior, and only then. However, the only thing that really stuck out to me was Serela's jump at the end, which is why my vote is on him now.

I'm having my eyes on several targets though, and will decide if I still see my current vote as justified tomorrow.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 08, 2010, 10:30:54 PM
All to say, after Alice's analysis of the Day 1 lynching, I'm still leaning towards NeoSerela due to the behavior of jumping on an inactive player.

Really, a bit suspicious considering who your other choice was...

##Vote: NeoSerela
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 08, 2010, 10:56:11 PM
I wasn't talking about your headcrabs vote.
Haven't made up my mind about Ecthel/Serela yet, so random vote for now.
Random Vote outside of RVS = garbage vote. Your Choja vote was it.

Oh yeah, Ecthel needs to post things that aren't excuses for not saying anything.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Ecthel on June 09, 2010, 12:18:33 AM
Oh yeah, Ecthel needs to post things that aren't excuses for not saying anything.
Well you're in luck because I just got back!

My current opinions about the game:
- I was leaning huh what town, but then he kinda died so that's pointless.
- Any and all frustration with me is completely justified. I apologize for not being very substantiative on D1; I will change that in the future.
- I'm still kind of suspicious of NeoSerela, mostly for the jokevote on Zakeri which went on for a little longer than I'd prefer. Nothing concrete, though. The vote on Kefit was also kind of weird since we knew he'd be out.
- I'm leaning town on Kefit and Alice.

Now for questions! We like questions, right?
- Will you accept my apolgies?
- If anyone, is there a person/group who you would consider probable town or scum?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 09, 2010, 12:19:49 AM
Oh right, I never made a bah post.

Uhhh I don't really have anything to put here beyond "bah" ;_; Which is a shame, I was hoping to make this "bah" post a revolutionary "bah" post that changes "bah" posts forever.

also HERP DERP GO TOWN
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 09, 2010, 12:52:42 AM
10. Dead players are dead and gone until the game is over. No more posting once you have died.

>_> <_< >_> <_< >_> <_<
---
Ecthel! Who're your buddies man? You've just used some words to say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!  I like how you don't think anyone is strongly scummy, or anything beyond "suspicious, but not concrete". Listing who you think is town afterwords doesn't help at all, beyond making me think you're a informed minority.

##Unvote
##Vote Ecthel
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nietz on June 09, 2010, 01:10:09 AM
I'm really not seeing Ecthel as scum at this point. I agree that his actions look more like newbderpness so far.

I was thinking similarly of NeoSerela, but upon closer inspection, I'm not so sure anymore. He used a lot of Scum D1 tactics like prodvoting, the whole IIoA and "I want some votes!" to crabs and Alice, the "looks more dumbscum then dumbtown" argument on Ecthel, making a point of asking the mod for information.
Plus his whole passive-aggressive reaction to Zak seems weird: it goes from "Zak is attacking me, but I forgive him because it's ED1" to "Still attacking me? Bad Zak! Coinflip vote on you." to "Nah, I guess he's not that bad after all."
Then he goes over to headcrabs basically for not being there and when his lynch is pretty much set he goes "he's not so bad actually, too bad we have to lynch him now. By the way, Zak looks bad."
It's also weird that he's back to Ecthel now citing Alice's analysis on him and then coming up with the reverse conclusions.

On the matter of Zakeri, I'm not too comfortable with his cheerleading of the crabwagon and then voting him only at the end when the lynch was unavoidable. But I thought HW was equally guilty of that, so yeah, NeoS is still at the top.

Choja has posted a lot of times without actually saying much. And claiming puzzlement over headcrabs' wagon whe he ended the day with a jokevote on Serp is ironical to say the least.

Anyway, over 250 already, so:
##Vote NeoSerela (L-2)
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2010, 01:18:37 AM
The vote on Kefit was also kind of weird since we knew he'd be out.
I missed the memo okay ;~;

But yeah, err... you say "oh I feel that huhwhat/Kefit/Alice are town" and then ask everyone else to tell you who they think is scum. That's the way to get scum telling you which town they want to get lynched, and have you blindly follow them. You need to find people YOU think are scummy. Of course, this is assuming you're town, which I really don't think you look like right now! Get to scumhunting!

Very comfortable with my vote on Ecthel right now.

Ninjaed by Nietz.
Quote
Then he goes over to headcrabs basically for not being there and when his lynch is pretty much set he goes "he's not so bad actually, too bad we have to lynch him now. By the way, Zak looks bad."
I said he doesn't look AS bad. But he still looked bad. Zak was only mentioned in the post because I was accused of being scum!Serela dropping Zak for headcrabs because "oh this isn't getting any votes".
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Kitten4u on June 09, 2010, 04:19:06 AM
Morning Hour of the Rooster

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
NeoSerela (4): Sakana, Zakeri, Nat Tea, Nietz
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (2): NeoSerela, MakaiSouvenirBooth

Not Voting: Kefit, Ecthel

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~55 hours

NeoSerela is at L-1
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 09, 2010, 06:57:52 AM
Kitten doesn't want to say 'Morning hour of the Cock' :3

Ecthel is out the next few days and needs replacing. His vote sticks for the next 24 hours to get a filler. If one can't be found, we'll sort out something for the end of the day.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 09, 2010, 06:04:51 PM
Choja has posted a lot of times without actually saying much. And claiming puzzlement over headcrabs' wagon whe he ended the day with a jokevote on Serp is ironical to say the least.
It was just a jokevote, really! I didn't think Serp's vote would jump high enough to land headcrabs in a lynching. I mean, my confusion lies in the fact where in Day 1 Rabbit, it was just two people after headcrabs: Serp's jokevote and MSB's vote reasoning from headcrabs's single confirm post.

24 hours later, whoops, headcrabs was a townie. And then Serp and huhwhat (who dropped the hammer) get killed overnight and they're both townie as well.

To extend to the irony,
I wasn't voting because D1 random voting and bandwagoning is the easiest point in the game for scum to justify random votes on town. i don't like it.

It makes Alice's wagonanalysis a lot more believable in my opinion.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 09, 2010, 06:06:11 PM
Now that I can post more words:

Serela: When I say "coinflip" In my last post, what I mean is I don't believe in coinflips. 89% of coinflips in mafia is just someone trying to hide their true reason for the vote, and I feel the reason for your vote was to avoid putting it on a running town wagon. Then, of course, there's the fact that said coinflip was part of your giant fence sit over my alignment. The whole things reads scum trying to find a half decent vote to stick on, rather than scumhunter with multiple targets.

I've also reread Sakana, MSB, and Ecthel (The other non-confirmed, non-Zakeris on the wagon). I think I missed a few posts from Sakana because I don't recall where the vote on Nat Tea went bad. I only caught two posts on day one.

There's a lot of dirt on MSB, but before I can decide if I should make a case or drop it, I need Serela's Card flip. I'm certain Ecthel and MSB are on opposite sides of alignment, so the reverse goes for Ecthel, too. Well, what I mean to say is Serela's lynch would be very good for providing information, as well as the likelyhood of him being scum.

Vote definitely stays.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 09, 2010, 07:18:00 PM
Rou has replaced Ecthel.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 09, 2010, 07:20:37 PM
Just reporting in to say that my vote will stay on Serela, unless something really major happens to change my mind.  Reasons are pretty much the same ones that Zakeri has already stated, so no need to parrot him.

Currently also suspecting MSB, but I'm not confident in that case yet.

Ninja by Pesco: Hi Rou o/
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 09, 2010, 07:24:14 PM
Sup.

OK so. I have read up quickly on the Day, and there's a simple fact about the end of D1. There was a last-minute push for a headcrabs lynch which flipped Town, so more than likely one of the people who pushed for that lynch is scum. From that Sakana has produced little beyond a quick random vote to start D1 and jumping on the emerging Neo wagon, I think I have enough to ##Vote: Sakana for now.

Maybe more when I'm not being watched by a friend :|
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 09, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
>Ecthel replaced
-_-

Currently also suspecting MSB, but I'm not confident in that case yet.
I like how you don't say why.

Meh, no point in voting someone who just replaced in. =|

##Unvote
##Vote Sakana back to my old vote
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 09, 2010, 08:54:35 PM
Hey, and here we go with MSB voting back to me, just as expected~

Gives me enough reason to ##Unvote  ##Vote MSB

Reasons: The same things he blamed me for in his first vote on me. He voted headcrabs for no very good reason while being ready to vote Ecthel or Neo as well, as it can be read from his posts (saying he's "being fine with headcrabs, Neo or Ecthel lynch")

Also, went from voting Ecthel on D1 to "Ecthel is only derptown" and Unvote to "obvscum" and Vote on D2, yet quickly drops the case again now, despite sounding extremely sure about it. I cannot see why one would do this just because of the replacement if he was so sure. Would like explanations for this behavior.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 09, 2010, 09:15:10 PM
I've replaced other people about 4-5 times. Gee, I wonder why I dropped my vote on the replacement olololol.

Cool OMGUS btw.

Then why'd you vote headcrabs, if the reason was "not good"?

When'd I say I was dropping the case? I was unvoting because of replacement shenanigans, but I never said that I would disregard what Ecthel did.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 10, 2010, 01:21:24 AM
Sakana's starting to look pretty jumpy to me.

Sakana! Who's scum and why?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nietz on June 10, 2010, 02:36:55 AM
@NS: The matter of the fact is that you still used a throwaway reason to vote crabs while keeping a "in-and-out" waffly attitude on Zakeri - the same kind you also got going for Ecthel, in fact. It looks like trying to avoid blatantly keeping away from a lynch you know will flip town, while at the same keeping your options open for the next day. (Not to mention all the others fishy attitudes I pointed out in that post.)

@Choja Tea: The fact that you weren't there to change your jokevote before the lynch isn't necessarily scummy, considering how fast it went. But as I said, making a bunch of posts with little content then going away until the end of the Day is not a good sign. And neither is showing up on D2 just to comment on how whacky that was and voting NS with little reason other than citing Alice's post.   

As for Sodium: sympathy for the replacement player is all well and nice, but how does that make suspicions go away? If Ecthel was scum, Rou will also be. And if your case on Ecthel was based on him being scum - as opposed to just a bad player - a replacement does nothing to change it.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Kefit on June 10, 2010, 02:38:50 AM
Kefit's Quick Thoughts On Random People:

Alice - Said surprisingly little of substance on d1. Some good stuff in that too long post though. Also, I don't think scum Alice would be sloppy enough to go over the word limit to such a degree.

Rou (formally Ethcel): I still don't really like Ethcel from d1 and early d2. Nor do I like his Sakana case. While I agree that I think that one of the headcrabs lynch instigators is possibly scum, I think that this line of logic more smoothly leads to Neo, who you decline to mention at all.

Neo Serela: Man I hate to go with the bandwagon here, but Neo is indeed looking terrible. His pressure vote on me d1 was terribly useless, especially since I had already stated that I would be off in exam horrorland for the first day. Of course, this has been mentioned a million times. So have the other reasons for the case against him. I'll just state that I concur, and that I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched today.

Nietz: Has done nothing this entire game except put Neo within striking range of a lynch on early d2. Nothing at all. His presence d1 was non-existent. Would not mind seeing his lynch either. He needs to contribute something right now.

Sakana + MSB: Honestly, I'm inclined to think they are both town. I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from either of them, and in my experience these kind of cat fights are almost always town v town.

tl;dr: ##Vote:Nietz. Not gonna put a vote on Neo because I'm too afraid of seeing a hot headed town lynching him too quickly. I'm fine with seeing either Nietz or Neo by lynched today, and will be willing to change my vote if needed once end of day approaches.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Kefit on June 10, 2010, 02:40:16 AM
EBWOP: Cute by Nietz. His post immediately preceding mine is pure fluff lacking in any substantive scumhunting. It does does not raise my opinion of him at all.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Kitten4u on June 10, 2010, 03:00:52 AM
Morning Hour of the Dog

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (2): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn, Sakana
Kefit (0):
Nietz (1): Kefit
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (2): MakaiSouvenirBooth, Roukanken
NeoSerela (3): Zakeri, Nat Tea, Nietz
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Roukanken (1): NeoSerela

Not Voting:

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~32 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 10, 2010, 04:31:30 AM
Ugh. Times like these when I could use a dayvig on...pretty much everyone involved. NEETz looks awful, NeoSerela looks awful, Sodium Tatrate still looks awful, etc. Starting to prefer a NeoSerela lynch over a Sodium Hyposulfite lynch though, principally because both look awful, but a Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate lynch won't give information on NeoSerela, whereas a NeoSerela lynch should provide info on Sodium Chlorate, given his sudden vote-jump onto Sakana. Vote, however, stays for now, given how trigger-happy Town can be sometimes (less so an issue here, but I've become used to DL Mafia pacing as of late and yeah).

Sakana himself looks rather awful, and I'd like something resembling a valid case. Same goes for NEETz. Same goes for... just about everyone here beyond Zakeri and Kefit, whereas I'd like more posting in general from Zakeri and Kefit as they've provided more-or-less the only decent posts that I've seen this day so far. Grumble.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 10, 2010, 05:39:17 AM
Then why'd you vote headcrabs, if the reason was "not good"?
Because, while not being good, the reasons to vote him were sufficient for D1, I stated that at that point as well.

Sakana's starting to look pretty jumpy to me.
As I suppose the 'jumpy' refers the the MSB vote, I mainly wanted to get a reaction from him while at the same time reducing the chances of a sudden Neo quicklynch before MSB could answer.

However, nothing that has happened afterwards makes the case on him any stronger, so I'm inclined to let it go for now.

The only reasonable course of action I see for me atm is to ##Unvote  ##Vote: NeoSerela.
His flip, which I strongly hope will be scum, should provide info about a number of people, including myself.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 10, 2010, 05:41:40 AM
EBWOP: Forgot Zak's question: Leaning towards Nietz as another scum at the moment, due to him seemingly avoiding giving any real opinions about anything and laying low mostly. No idea about everyone else yet.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 10, 2010, 07:09:18 AM
Kefit: Easier to believe that bad contribution isn't as scummy as no contribution. We've seen players here be terrible at LAL, and besides Sakana actually jumped onto Headcrabs first.
So in short, active bad ideas aren't as scummy as lurker bad ideas.

As for a GENUINE call of LAL, Nietz is WHOA quiet and his D1 is non-existent. Still prefer Sakana for BLATANT OMGUS of Sodium and then going back because he REEEALLY wants the Neo wagon to go through. Neo case I'm wary of for one part 'this could just be mislead Townie' and one part 'this wagon is building up way too fast'.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 10, 2010, 08:49:06 PM
Sakana: Wait, if you didn't want a quick lynch, why'd you put NS back to L-1 with more than 24 hours remaining(at the time of your post)? Time to discuss is usually nice. Actually, what? Now that I answered whatever, NS dying with a good amount of time in the day is alright?

Actually, Nietz, why'd you even put NS on L-1 with a good amount of time left in the day? And I already said they don't. I just don't think that'd a vote on someone who's starting to get into the game would is a good vote. 


Vote stays.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 10, 2010, 09:03:07 PM
Morning Hour of the Pig

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn
Kefit (0):
Nietz (1): Kefit
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (2): MakaiSouvenirBooth, Roukanken
NeoSerela (4): Zakeri, Nat Tea, Nietz, Sakana
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Roukanken (1): NeoSerela

Not Voting:

NeoSerela is at L-1

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~16 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2010, 09:46:25 PM
Tried to ISO Nietz, it was horribly unproductive because the only stuff I could find against him has been said in almost every post starting from Kefit's D2 post, and there isn't any reason to repeat them.

Unlike Ecthel, I don't feel like Rou is scum. In his first (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg357565#msg357565) post he doesn't go for the easy hammer on me, and in his second (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg358103#msg358103), he even actively speaks against it. Why scum would do this on such an easylooking lynch, I have no idea. I guess Ecthel was just being dumbtown after all? ##Unvote

I don't really see how MSB is so scummy. He actively questions people for their reasons, at the same time contributing plenty of his own, and all the stuff he does makes pretty fine sense to me.

Not really feeling much about any of the other people. Choja looks like derptown, I'd like more posts for Kefit before forming an opinion on him (not saying he's lurking, since he just couldn't be here for awhile and I'm sorry for not seeing that note earlier) although I'm seeing good points about Sakana popping up, I should ISO him shortly. I've kinda forgotten Zakeri/Alice exists, need to remedy that as well.

##Vote:Nietz for now, IMO he looks worse then Sakana, who mostly just seems to look bad because of a short jump onto MSB that's abandoned to resupport the lynch on me.



Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nietz on June 10, 2010, 10:39:28 PM
@Kefit: Can't say I really like being called non-contributive by someone who I didn't even remember was playing. That looks even more schizophrenic by the fact that you claim to agree that NS is scummy but vote me for arguing for it. Other than that there's only fearmongering that scum would actually quickhammer a town NS in the beginning of Day 2 thanks to me. I for one would love them to out themselves so openly, but I have to admit they would have to be pretty dumb to do that.

Actually, the fact that you claim that he should be lynched but don't want it to happen unless someone else can take the blame for it is the first thing in favor of NS that I've seen so far.

Why scum would do this on such an easylooking lynch, I have no idea.
You mean you have no idea why scum would avoid quicklynching town-you in front of everyone? Either this is some incredible chutzpah or some genuine derptown.

Now I don't want NS to be accidentally lynched by a cheerleader yet. So ## Unvote until I can make my mind up.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2010, 11:02:35 PM
You mean you have no idea why scum would avoid quicklynching town-you in front of everyone? Either this is some incredible chutzpah or some genuine derptown.
I meant the part where he criticizes the wagon on me, not where he doesn't hammer me. Now that I think about it, you're completely right, the hammer part would be ridiculously stupid.

But my other reason still stands; I mean, after what he said, I'd have to do something pretty incriminating in order for him to be able to justify putting a vote on me at the end of the day. It's just closing off the one "dependable" lynch option. Rou just seems pretty town to me, and Ecthel having been derptown is very plausible anyway, as much as I didn't really think that was so.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 11, 2010, 03:35:48 AM
Nietz's defence has something really bugging me. He doesn't really try countering the points against him(in the sense of discrediting them); instead he just fires back at Kefit, with things that barely relate, such as pointing out Kefit's lack of presence for saying he was contributing.


On the topic of people we forgot were playing the game, whoa, Choja's playing? I also don't recall him saying anything useful. =V His last post was more than 24 hours ago; Pesco, did you prod him?


NS: Not sure if you can say Rou is town for defending you somewhat, and by extension, not joining in on the likely lynch that will probably happen with or without him. =V


Doubt we'll be getting a lynch besides NS'. Prefer Sakana though, obviously. Might be able to get a post in right before deadline depending on when I wake up.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 11, 2010, 05:35:39 AM
Lurkers are your problem. Replacements are mine.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 11, 2010, 05:58:57 AM
Okay, with how things look now, I guess I'll have to change some of my opinions.
NS latest posts are a looking pretty good to me, which makes me believe that he is more likely to be Town after all.

Nietz, on the other hand, hasn't produced anything worthwhile even with the rising pressure on him. The only thing that's bugging me on his case is the NS unvote, I don't quite see why scum would do this. But with the way he avoids giving opinions and cases on anyone, I'm really tempted to vote him.

However, chances to get through with a lynch on him are small, looking at the remaining time.
Unless the opinion is that a no-lynch will be better today or the situation changes miraculously, I'll grit my teeth and stay with the NS vote.

My short jump on MSB is something I can and will not defend. Looking back at it, it barely made sense, and I therefore accept the OMGUS charges.

Not sure what to think of Choja. Starting to think his lurking might be the result of scumbuddies telling him to lay low after his derp-action at the start, but there's not enough material from him to really make a case out of that.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 11, 2010, 08:04:25 AM
On the topic of people we forgot were playing the game, whoa, Choja's playing? I also don't recall him saying anything useful. =V His last post was more than 24 hours ago; Pesco, did you prod him?
Not sure what to think of Choja. Starting to think his lurking might be the result of scumbuddies telling him to lay low after his derp-action at the start, but there's not enough material from him to really make a case out of that.
Sorry about that. Of course, I think it's because MSB is right and I don't really say anything useful, nor do I have any idea to say anything useful right now, even with all the discussion going on.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 11, 2010, 08:26:41 AM
Choja, if you agree with Sodium then show it with a vote.

And what's with people acting as if the Neo lynch is set in stone asdfghjkl
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 11, 2010, 08:32:35 AM
Problem is, we have only about five or six hours left. Chances to get enough people on another wagon, even on mine, are slim.

Well, let's set a sign for the lynch I'd prefer at the moment: ##Unvote  ##Vote: Nietz

I will change that vote back to NS when it's close to deadline and looks like we might get a no-lynch though.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 11, 2010, 09:06:26 AM
Choja, if you agree with Sodium then show it with a vote.
I already did vote for NeoSerela, but I'm starting to feel like that was a bit hasty of me.

Nietz, you're acting really hesitant around Kefit, aren't you? There could be an assumption that it could be all a cover up or something considering how hard you're working around the pressure as a distraction.

I just don't know if I can trust you now. Sorry.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nietz
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 11, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Evening Hour of the Rat

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn
Kefit (0):
Nietz (4): Kefit, NeoSerela, Sakana, Nat Tea
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (2): MakaiSouvenirBooth, Roukanken
NeoSerela (1): Zakeri
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Roukanken (0):

Not Voting: Nietz

Nietz is at L-1

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~4 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 11, 2010, 11:48:25 AM
Okay, wat? at how the NS wagon dissolved in the timespan of 4 hours and turned into the Nietz wagon. It doesn't help that Choja's vote makes no sense, because no, Nietz has not acted hesitant, what the hell are you talking about, and why are you spewing this garbage? Sakana's vote isn't good either because how his opinion suddenly changing with NS after NS made TWO posts doesn't make sense.


tl;dr: Nietz wagon is fine and all, but I don't like how it grew so suddenly, and the last two people who joined are voting for questionable reasons.

Rou: Because Nietz probably would've placed his vote back onto NS, and it's likely that another person would hammer. This didn't happen. Instead, everyone jumped off. 
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Sodium on June 11, 2010, 11:57:48 AM
EBWOP: Er, meant case. Not wagon.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 11, 2010, 12:03:21 PM
Just over an hour remaining
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 11, 2010, 12:30:20 PM
MSB: Those two posts of NS were, in my eyes, of a very different quality than the ones he made before. Therefore they were more than enough for me to dismiss him as primary target.

If you want it in more detail: NeoSerela may have made a number of faults, but I do not see his play benefit scum too much, and his last posts made this opinion stronger. Nietz play however has contributed nothing for Town as far as I can see it, which would benefit scum and therefore makes him a good target. I do not see that as a questionable reason, in fact I think this may be the most reasonable vote I've put out yet.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 11, 2010, 12:52:44 PM
Gaah. Still would've preferred Sakana lynch, but since there's about 10 minutes until deadline may as well take what I can get.

##Unvote; Hammer: Nietz

If this flips Town Sakana and the late Nietz pushers are going to look reeeeeally bad in my eyes.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 11, 2010, 12:56:32 PM
EBWOP: By late pushers I mean Choja. 'I agree with Sodium, which is why I'm voting someone someoneo totally different from him!'
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 11, 2010, 01:01:12 PM
Nietz has been lynched. He was a bulletproof townie.

Night ends in between 24 and 48 hours. Send all actions to myself AND Kitten4u.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nietz on June 11, 2010, 05:49:34 PM
Great job you derps.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Nat Tea on June 12, 2010, 01:39:31 AM
All facts are true.

All lies are false.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Pesco on June 13, 2010, 06:19:36 AM
It is Day 3

MSB died during the night. He was a Vanilla Townie
Zakeri died during the night. He was a Vanilla Townie

6 alive. 4 votes for a lynch.
You are in something of a LyLo. A lot of time until deadline.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 13, 2010, 06:46:28 AM
Okay, that situation is looking horrible.

I'm aware I screwed up utterly and entirely, and I have no excuse other than that I believed my logic to be right.

I will try to look into the remaining players as soon as possible to find a target that hopefully will not flip Town upon lynch this time.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 13, 2010, 07:05:10 AM
This is a bit of a dilemma.

To say the least, I apologize for my previous behavior. Now, to assess,

Sakana -
As of I, but we are not always correct. However, my vote was on the change of judgement; I still do not think that NeoSerela is at all scum. You did target MSB before her death though beforehand. A late present to him?

Roukoukan -
I predict that you do not trust me anymore, that's understandable. As I said before, a change of judgement on my part moved my vote.

Alice -
Strangely, the only things I've seen from you are observations and of nothing else. Maybe a clever ruse or just a bystander?

Kefit -
You're like Alice, rather precise. I do not suspect you since your opinion did sway me to voting Nietz in the first place.

NeoSerela -
You don't really make sense a lot of times, but this game? It doesn't look like it'd help scum in any way.

I'm probably wrong and people will correct, but you people should follow up anyways.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 13, 2010, 07:19:02 AM
Okay, that situation is looking horrible.
This is a bit of a dilemma.
Potential scum boasting is noted.

Honestly though, I'm not sure if a Sakana/Choja pair is that viable given that Sakana's ED1 vote was on Choja for no good reason when there was real discussion going on. I'm sold on Sakana though given that he's been in scummy positioning for two Townie wagons and has offered little in terms of contribution.
I'm considering a Sakana/Alice pair atm. Considering the way Alice has shimmied his way around the Sakana case - commenting how terrible he is twice in D2, in these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg356625#msg356625) two posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg358002#msg358002), but still with several people well out in front in terms of suspicion.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2010, 11:57:04 AM
Rou, voting eachother at the beginning of D1 isn't something that makes them any less likely to be scum together. Last game, I actually used that to support my case of huh what being one of Zakeri's scumbuddies; and hey, I was right! Granted, the way it was last game was a lot more significant then it is this game.

Not saying it actually makes them look any scummier, though. It's pretty insubstantial in any case, especially with what it is this game, and we don't have a flip on either of them to support it.

Regardless of who their scumbuddy is, I think MSB pretty much hit the nail on the head. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg359100#msg359100) I think Sakana looks more guilty about this particular situation though, seeing as Choja's been really derpy throughout the whole game anyway; still, after that fiasco, I think I could go with the idea of Choja!scum as well. Fairly positive at least one of them must be scum, if not both, and leaning more towards Sakana.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 13, 2010, 01:17:50 PM
One thing I think needs to get brought out into the open now: if whoever has been putting out these second NKs is Town, now is the time to own up.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 13, 2010, 05:17:51 PM
if whoever has been putting out these second NKs is Town, now is the time to own up.
Hello.

Ask me any questions.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 13, 2010, 05:34:24 PM
Hello.

Ask me any questions.
Fullclaim. Now.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 13, 2010, 05:42:13 PM
I am a fantastic crazy drunk hobo.

No one can kill me at night (first, because I have no address, and secondly, I'm hard to notice) and I can break into people's houses and kill anyone I want in my stupor with my sharp broken bottle. It's pointy.

Mindfully, because I'm constantly inebriated, I do not give a damn about who I kill as long as I'm the only one standing. Key word, only. Because everyone else is more insane than me and needs to die.

Thre's kind of a problem right no with that:. LyLo.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 13, 2010, 05:47:01 PM
...Did you just claim serial killer? :|

Anyway, as is you now have no reason to disobey Town's orders if you want a chance of winning. If today brings around a scum lynch, do not kill as it will ruin your chance of winning. If a Townie is lynched, shoot into the crowd or scum will win - and as a consequence, whether you're Town or SK, you will lose.

Now very sold on Sakana/Alice, because Choja's hurrr play makes perfect sense for a third-party.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2010, 07:13:46 PM
...yeah, protip, if you aren't town then YOU DON'T WANT TO TELL PEOPLE THAT. Third party survivor is an exception, I suppose, but being an SK is nearly as bad as being Scum, in that it's an anti-town role that will kill people every night.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 13, 2010, 07:38:02 PM
...yeah, protip, if you aren't town then YOU DON'T WANT TO TELL PEOPLE THAT.
I do know that, but even if I just gave a small description of my role without that bit, Rou would have figured out my true role anyways.
Now very sold on Sakana/Alice, because Choja's hurrr play makes perfect sense for a third-party.

Truthfully, I have already lost, so I might as well cut Town's losses and maybe even revenge comeback scum and get Town to claim the win for this game.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 13, 2010, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: Nat Tea
Alice -
Strangely, the only things I've seen from you are observations and of nothing else. Maybe a clever ruse or just a bystander?
Clearly you missed my giant post with several cases and a vote in it? I haven't been posting as much as I should have, but I certainly have not been reporter'ing.

Quote
Kefit -
You're like Alice, rather precise. I do not suspect you since your opinion did sway me to voting Nietz in the first place.
Now, while NEETz flipping Town does not imply Scum-Kefit, I'm somewhat puzzled by how Kefit swaying you to vote NEETz implies Town-Kefit if NEETz did not flip Town.

That being said, I'm willing to believe you being SK, considering that you'd be the ideal person for this sort of derp-play, and yeah. Roukanken has already covered all the instructions for you to do, kindly please follow them.

Anyway, Roukan, the reason I wound up putting several people in front of the Sakana case is that, y'know, at the time, there were several people whom I thought looked Scummier than Sakana? Before the last-minute NEETz rush the main things against him seemed to be Day 1 iffiness, which, while bad, was not as bad as that of say, Sodium Bromide's, and that was mainly it. I'll have to do a full reread before I give an opinion in general and a vote for today, though.

Current suspicion list is looking a bit like Sakana > Roukanken/Ecthel > NeoSerela > Kefit, and I'm going to buy Choja's claim of Derp-SK for now. (And before you get on my case how I didn't think that Sakana used to look bad but now I do, we've had three more flips since then, so yeah).
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 13, 2010, 10:16:41 PM
Evening Hour of the Ox

Voting

Kefit (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
NeoSerela (0):
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Roukanken (0):

Not Voting: Everyone

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is in many hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 14, 2010, 07:34:43 AM
Alright, time for some strategy. I could try to write up original cases right now, but chances to convince someone with the current case on my are next to none. So I'm going to do what I find most reasonable:

I've looked through all the cases that have been made by the players who are now dead and confirmed Town. If the accumulated opinions of those dead people are not going to give any hints, then I don't know what will. I'll place my faith in that strategy.

The results are pretty clear.

Number one suspect across the board is NeoSerela.
I'm especially relying on Zakeri's case here, that he had from D1 onward and which wasn't shaken by anything NS did. Nietz, huh what and MSB also had cases against NS.
Me dropping my suspicions against NS now seems like the greatest of my mistakes, and I'm pretty much convinced that his lynch will be the right course.

As for a scum-buddy, both the analysis and my own thoughts highly suggest that it is Ecthel/Rou.
Cases on Ecthel have been made a few times, and it was Zakeri that stated that MSB and Ecthel are most likely of opposite alignment, a statement which I'm going to believe in and which leaves only the conclusion of Roukanken being scum.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 14, 2010, 12:43:59 PM
Alright, two responses.

@Alice - I'm unconvinced by your reasoning. Looking at your post just after the Morning Hour of the Dog (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg358002#msg358002), you basically say 'oh my god everyone other than Kefit and Zak is terrible'. No sign of seeing Sakana as better/worse than anyone else, and a post of 'everyone sucks' doesn't do anything productive. I got called out for it in Haruhi D2, and guess what? I was scum that game.

@Sakana - Yes, Zak's case on Neo. Never mind that his last post just before The Dog Hour (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg357878#msg357878) was him pressing at you, and he wasn't around to switch votes when people thought the Neo case was getting too aggressive. Also DEAD TOWN ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT WHY ARE YOU ARGUING THIS.

We need more Kefit. Right now, though, very very sold on SakanAlice.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
Quote
a post of 'everyone sucks' doesn't do anything productive. I got called out for it in Haruhi D2, and guess what? I was scum that game.
Oh, that was yet another one of the things I used as evidence on scum!huhwhat last game :D

Lurking itself isn't a reason against Alice since he always lurks, which is pretty annoying, and results in stuff like Motk Mafioso Mafia where out of all the lurkers, Alice, who was the only townie lurker, was lynched for LAL. It's great meta for when you get to be scum for a game, but otherwise, it can hurt the town you're supposed to be helping.

The case against Alice seems fairly small atm, but what's there so far isn't bad. Still, as things are now, I definitely would prefer a Sakana lynch first.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2010, 02:07:27 PM
EBWOP:Realizing I made a kind of awkward jump out of nowhere when takling about Alice. My first sentence is basically going "Judging from my past experiences, this observation is one that works, so I agree". The paragraph afterwards is addressing a point made against Alice earlier and not really related to what I quoted from Rou, although I kinda forgot to mention the slight change of subject there.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on June 15, 2010, 02:26:00 AM
Crap, due to unforseen IRL factors I won't be available at all until approximately this time again tomorrow. I assume that because it's LYLO we get some degree of more time, and if not, I would like to request that right now. Thanks.

Apologies to everyone about this, but at the same time everything should be resolved by tomorrow, so yeah.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 15, 2010, 05:33:07 AM
Also DEAD TOWN ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT WHY ARE YOU ARGUING THIS.
I'm not arguing it, where do you get this from?

But I think simply ignoring everything they have done until they died is wrong. Mafia is a team game, so why ignore what my team has generated up to this point?

Chances to hit right are definitely increased by including everything they have left us, that is my opinion.

To clarify my standpoint, I'm in fact more sold on Rou as scum than on Neo. For that reason, my preferred lynch for today is definitely Rou. His shooting against a single Town target without even considering possibilities is as scummy as it can get.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 15, 2010, 11:31:05 AM
Sakana: It is INCREDIBLY easy for scum to take dead!Town reasoning and use it for their own if they know they're wrong. In using other people's answers you've subsequently done no work yourself, and regurgitated the case of someone else so you can hide behind the defense of 'a Townie agrees with me!'

And explain to me what you mean by 'shooting against a single Town target without even considering possibilities'. Do you see anyone here arguing that you're Town? Your accusation on me is blatant OMGUS.

##Vote: Sakana

We're in Mylo. We have a vote to spare. Choja has no reason to joint win with scum. I'm 100% sold on Sakana as scum. Therefore I'm dropping my vote right now, and it'll take a miracle to move me from it.

I find the lack of Kefit disturbing, though.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 15, 2010, 09:25:53 PM
Alice: It was a bit of a fluff post to distract people from suspecting me, although you did catch me stumbling on your analysis. If I didn't say anything about my role after it (and thus halt the facade), I would assume you'd predict I was scum and accidently get myself ousted.

Thank you for trusting me on what role I've said and all.

However, I'm still waiting on what Kefit has to say about all this.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 15, 2010, 09:31:22 PM
EBWOP:

* you'd predict I was scum as well and accidently get myself ousted with Rou/Neo/Sakana backing up the evidence.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Kefit on June 16, 2010, 02:42:59 AM
Sorry for the absence. I've been dealing with graduation and related affairs, and I've been prioritizing those matters since Pesco announced LyLo and what I interpret as a 144 hour day period.

Thoughts in increasing order of suspicion:

Choja - I've approached the LyLo announcement from every direction I can think of, and have concluded that his claim is solid.

Alice - Providing sensible cases and the d2 post length slip-up still screams town to me. Low on my suspicion list.

Neo: Still looks like crap. A late joiner to both d1 and d2 lynch bandwagons, along with everything pointed out against him d2. More recently, has been guilty of trying to keep alive a weak case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg361867#msg361867) on Alice. People, there really isn't much point on keeping a case alive if you don't place your vote on it. It does nothing but eat up words.

Sakana: A late joiner on both the d1 and d2 bandwagons. His attempt at strategy instead of making a real case, at this point in the game, is simply dumb. It's a lack of contribution disguised as an attempt to "figure things out" I guess. Could easily be trying to bus one of his scum buddies (Rou or Neo) before what he perceives is an imminent lynch.

Rou: In addition to looking bad on d1, this day he has used a lot of posts to extract a claim from Choja. This is a process that could have been done by either scum or town, and that benefits both of them. Then he responds to a couple of cases without bothering to present his own (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6273.msg361842#msg361842). Then votes Sakana after an accusation of OMGUS - reminds me of his behavior back in Haruhi mafia (where he was scum), as does his general aggressiveness this day.

##Vote:Rou. Probably buddies with either Sakana or Neo.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Serela on June 16, 2010, 10:27:42 AM
"has been guilty of trying to keep alive a weak case on Alice. isn't much point on keeping a case alive if you don't place your vote on it"
I wasn't voting because... you know, it's LyLo? Well,  MyLo so having a single vote on someone=fine, but still. I'm a lot more convinced about Sakana being scum then Alice, not voting someone I'm not trying to get lynched atm.

I addressed Alice!case because Rou's been talking about Sakana/Alice scumpair for all of D3, and considering we've only got 4 Aliceposts to look at (before today), I think the case doesn't look all that bad. I mean, in addition to "everyone sucks post", which lets him go after whoever he wants next, he didn't even use his D1 vote. What? Come to think of it, Alice hardly did anything worth noting on D1, and didn't even post during the headcrabs fiasco.

Kefit's RouThoughts are interesting. Most of the points I don't think look as scummy as Kefit does, but only by a differing point of view. Aggressive point of view; points look valid. More forgiving point of view; Rou justified his worse looking actions with stuff he did already; when he "doesn't present own cases", he was cracking down on cases presented by Alice and Sakana, who ARE his cases, so criticizing their actions is a way in itself of presenting his case. OMGUS is less bad because he's been going after Sakana all day anyway.

Blah, I don't know whether I should believe the Roucase or not. People say I'm too forgiving (see D1 tiebreaker last mafia), something I know is true about myself. Not a good thing in Mafia. I suppose it's something I'll have to come back to tommorow, since either way, I'm still quite sure Sakana is scum.

wordcountsagaghghhahghhhh
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 16, 2010, 02:28:06 PM
Evening Hour of the Tiger

Voting

Kefit (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (1): Rou
NeoSerela (0):
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Roukanken (1): Kefit

Not Voting: Everyone else

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is in ~64 hours
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 17, 2010, 03:32:53 PM
Okay, since nothing we're closing in on the deadline, #Vote: Roukanken. This vote will not change.

I'm aware that I have neither a good original case on him, nor a good defense for the case on me (the latter is, imo, pretty much impossible anyway).
My case on Rou is based on the reactions Ecthal generated plus Rou's actions since he replaced in, in combination with my knowledge of my own alignment.
Since Rou hasn't really discussed any cases besides the one on me, the only way to prove my case would be for me to die, which makes it extremely weak.
This is all I can say.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Pesco on June 17, 2010, 09:12:14 PM
Something like 33 hours left
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 18, 2010, 03:55:57 PM
Is everyone really busy today or just waiting for a last minute speed lynch?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Kefit on June 18, 2010, 07:06:51 PM
I have no idea. Everyone seemed dying to hear what I had to say, only for my post to be a death knell that killed the thread.

A no lynch today isn't the worst thing that could ever happen, but I doubt subsequent days will see a spark in the level of activity.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Pesco on June 18, 2010, 07:17:23 PM
Something like 11 hours left. Day ends when I wake up
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 18, 2010, 07:29:32 PM
Since Rou hasn't really discussed any cases besides the one on me, the only way to prove my case would be for me to die, which makes it extremely weak.
No offense, but this is the worst logic I have ever seen in a mafia game. Of COURSE I can't prove my case conclusively while you're still alive, because if that was possible the game would be incredibly dull. You can't do the same conclusively to me either, so does that make your case extremely weak as well?

I don't like the idea of a no lynch today, because it just gives scum a chance to kill someone unrelated and leave the question open. Still keeping my vote on Sakana.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2010, 01:28:27 AM
abjadfasfda IRL happened and took away all my time today. When I finally got home, I thought the deadline had already passed. Surprisingly, not only has it not passed, but not a single 'nother person has used their vote. Err, how wonderful during the end of a MyLo where there's basically no conversation in about 2 days regardless.

Anyway, ##Vote:Sakana. We've already been over the reasons for this, no reason to repeat them, etcetc.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 19, 2010, 05:25:49 AM
I guess that since Kefit did say that Sakana may have a hand in it and Rou and Neo believe it as well, I will be willing to go with it.

##Vote: Sakana

I remember my orders clearly, so don't fret.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day2 Huh what happened?
Post by: Pesco on June 19, 2010, 06:14:15 AM
Voting

Kefit (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (3): Rou, NeoSerela, Nat Tea
NeoSerela (0):
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Roukanken (2): Kefit, Sakana

Not Voting: Alice

No Majority was reached. The day ends with No Lynch

Night actions with the next 24-48 hours to myself and Kitten4u
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Nat Tea on June 19, 2010, 05:43:16 PM
stfu
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day3 Killing Spree
Post by: Edible on June 20, 2010, 05:43:27 PM
hahahaha
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Pesco on June 21, 2010, 05:43:38 AM
It is Day 4

Roukanken died during the night. He was a Vanilla Townie
?lice Bl?ckb?rn died during the night. He was a Mafia Rolecop

4 alive. 3 votes for a lynch.
You are in LyLo. A lot of time until deadline.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 21, 2010, 05:59:24 AM
.... The grave I dug for myself just got about two metres deeper, didn't it?

Let's rephrase: We have Choja as a Serial Killer (I don't doubt this claim of his), then Kefit, Neo and me who have made no claims.

So I will make my claim now: I suppose Choja didn't kill last night. Instead, my ability came into play, which caused Alice to die.

I am a Paranoid Gun Owner. When I am targeted by an ability at night, I will draw the gun from below my pillow and shoot whoever came into my house before they have a chance to act. Apparently Alice tried to investigate me.

Now the decision stands as to whether Kefit or Neo are the last scum. While I have been going for a Neo Lynch a lot of times, I'm not so sure anymore. I'll have to look through both of you and see what I can get.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 06:06:52 AM
...*blinks*

Nice hit there, Choja! Although I think people would have just said to not NK anyone, but it looks like it worked out pretty well!

I'm assuming this only further confirms Sakana as scum in Rou's eyes, since he kept going on about that Sakana/Alice pair all over D3. Can't wait to see how this affects Kefit's thoughts, seeing as he figured Rou was scum and Alice was town, both of which just got disproved.

...that's an interesting coincidence, actually.

I think I'll take a look at Kefit when I've gotten more sleep, but only as a safety precaution in case I suddenly see something scummy I didn't notice before. I mean, just because his scumhunting didn't reach the right answers doesn't automatically label him as scum. Sakana's flip might make it more substantial, but at this point we obviously don't have such a luxury.

Sakananinja:That's an interesting development. I don't see why you'd lie about something Choja could dismiss so easily, unless you were scumbuddies; and with Alice having flipped scum, we already know you can't both be. The game would be over right now if there was 3 scum. Assuming Choja doesn't come in and go "NO I KILLED ALICE D:", I think I believe your claim.

Yeah, definitely gonna be looking up Kefit after I get some sleep. Why am I even awake at 2 am.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 06:08:10 AM
EWBOP:Oh yeah, are we claiming now since it's LyLo? Vanilla Townie.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Kefit on June 21, 2010, 06:18:09 AM
Alice scum is legitimately surprising. It wasn't outside the realm of possibilities, but man I really didn't see it coming.

Need Choja to say whether he shot or not before I assess Sakana's claim and the rest of the game state. Until then, consider this - if Sakana is town, then why didn't Alice hammer him yesterday? That would have ended the game with a scum victory. Of course, this might just be due to real life stuff or whatever that kept him from posting for the last several real life days of d3. Hmm...

Oh yeah, I'm a vanilla townie.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 21, 2010, 06:22:25 AM
Wow, I didn't even see Alice had the hammer chance there. I assume it was just that he wasn't on at the right time, seeing as the hammer chance only came less than an hour before Deadline.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Nat Tea on June 21, 2010, 08:47:53 AM
I didn't shoot.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 09:09:30 AM
Well, Choja didn't shoot. It would have been a really retarded lie for Sakana to make if Choja HAD shot anyway. Unless Alice had just been, like, double-killed :V

Well, there's no reason for Choja to lie since, while he could frame Sakana, it wouldn't benefit town to frame a townie. And Choja has basically commited himself to helping town. So yeah. Unless someone has a different idea for how Alice died, this means Sakana definitely killed Alice one way or another, and it's probably the way he said.

So, Sakana is p.much confirmed town. Choja is p.much confirmed serial killer. That leaves me and Kefit.

Well, if you can convince me that I'm scum and my role pm just said Vanilla Townie instead for some strange reason, I'll be so amazed you might actually get me to vote myself in sheer awe. But until then, ##Vote:Kefit.

It'll take everyone being in agreement to lynch today, and there's only one scum left, so I don't see any reason to not just use my vote now. Besides, there isn't any other possible conclusion for me to come to but Kefit, unless Choja is some CRIMINAL GENIUS MASTERMIND who was actually Alice's scumbuddy with an extra NK ability. Which I really, really doubt.

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the Alice~Sakana hammer thing. Alice must've just not been here to hammer him. There's no other logical way I can think of that Alice could have died, although I'm open to any ideas.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 21, 2010, 03:02:07 PM
Okay, I just looked through Alice's and Kefit's posts again, and the likelyhood of them being the scumteam is definitely far higher than Alice-Neo scumteam. They've been covering each other with Town-cred while placing suspicion on most other people, which is extremely suspicious given Alice's flip.
That kind of interaction is something I don't see in regards to Neo.
The way Neo has been acting and how Alice has reacted to that, if they were both Scum, would only make sense to me if Scum had no means to communicate secretly, a possibility that we can't prove.

As I doubt we will get any valuable lengthy discussion here, might as well go for the finale: #Vote: Kefit
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 21, 2010, 03:03:15 PM
EBWOP: Slightly wrong formatting, so just in case: ## Vote: Kefit
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Nat Tea on June 21, 2010, 03:42:54 PM
I claimed Serial Killer.
Sakana claimed Paranoid Gun Owner.

...
And then both Kefit and Neo claim Vanilla Townie. Even though there's one scum left.

I guess that after this vote, I'm going to need a stern talking to.

Let's see what happens.

If Kefit flips scum, I will laugh so much today... so much!
Not gonna happen. Sakana's going to end up scum somehow.

##Vote: Kefit
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Nat Tea on June 21, 2010, 03:48:07 PM
EBWOP:

I guess that that black text assumption is wildly incorrect since the only other way scum can be killed overnight is if I actually shot, but I didn't.

Also, I don't care what's happening in real life, tell me what I did wrong and don't hesitate at all.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Pesco on June 21, 2010, 04:24:24 PM
Kefit was lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie.

Send your night actions to myself and Kitten4u. Night ends between 24 and 48 hours.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 How Many Alive? Oh wait, Game Over.
Post by: Pesco on June 21, 2010, 06:01:59 PM
Sakana was killed during the night. He was a Paranoid Gun Owner.

NeoSerela, Mafia Godfather, dies in the endgame to Nat Tea, Serial Killer.

I have no words for you people.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 06:04:45 PM
ahahahahaha

Also, does this mean that my NK-immunity couldn't save me from Choja's SK kills? Fuck. Before Alice got killed, I was actually going to scumclaim after the townie!lynch was ensured, just so Choja wouldn't possibly hit Alice, since I thought it wouldn't kill me ):

oh man this is amazing.

So yeah, nice job at the end of D2 town. NEOSERELA HAS TOUCHED MY HEART AND I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT, LET'S KILL NIETZ INSTEAD
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Nat Tea on June 21, 2010, 06:06:07 PM
...

What?

What just happened?

Wha...

...
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 21, 2010, 06:06:39 PM
I think this may be our first SK win ever. And from an SK who claimed PUBLICALLY.

Yeah we're really bad at this game and I know it's probably mainly my fault we didn't lynch Neo D2 so yeah >_>
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 06:07:09 PM
Oh yeah, and scum couldn't daytalk. Technically we could on D1, but we didn't for some reason :V Nice call there Sakana.


EDIT:Oh, I get it now. D5 was Me and Choja left, so it went to an SK win. I called that in one of my PMs and Alice didn't believe me ):
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Edible on June 21, 2010, 06:09:37 PM
You guys had Sakana nailed as scum for 3 days and didn't lynch.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 21, 2010, 06:13:19 PM
You guys had Sakana nailed as scum for 3 days and didn't lynch.
YOU THINK I DIDN'T TRY? >:<
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 06:15:20 PM
I should have claimed One-shot Nightvig instead of Vanilla Townie, and tried to get Sakana lynched. ):

Also, still loling about how I was getting towniepasses because "What's he doing is so stupid if he's scum, doesn't make sense". Teehee WIFOM playstyle to appeal to my dumbtown meta.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on June 21, 2010, 06:16:15 PM
I claim the trophy of 'Scum's Best Helper' here.
Apparently, the way I use logic is absolutely unfitting for Mafia.

And a lot of people will legitimately want to kill me now, I assume :V

Well, rest ensured that I don't plan to play another game anytime soon, which is probably better for everyone :3
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day4 With So Much More
Post by: ?q on June 21, 2010, 06:40:52 PM
...*blinks*

Nice hit there, Choja! Although I think people would have just said to not NK anyone, but it looks like it worked out pretty well!
:?

Quote
I think this may be our first SK win ever. And from an SK who claimed PUBLICALLY.
At the time Natty claimed, there was essentially no way for Town to win (particularly because he was NK-immune).
T - M - N
3 - 2 - 1
Lynch the SK and after the Night the game goes to 2-2 Mafia win.

Lynch Mafia and the game goes to Night at 3-1-1.
Without factoring in NK-immune Godfatherness this actually can be won by Town if the SK hits the remaining Mafioso (and he would be well-advised to deliberately miss for precisely that reason). Otherwise assuming at least one kill hits Town the game goes to a Prisoners' Dilemma, and because the SK is NK-immune and NK-immune draws are given to the SK, he's going to win it.

No Lynch at all - If the SK doesn't crosskill, Mafia wins.  If the SK does crosskill, we get 2-1-1, which is still a PD, SK still wins.

So claiming, and particularly claiming NK-immune, was the best move he could have made - it ensured that he wouldn't get NKd and prevented the Town from lynching him (preventing him from fulfilling his own Win Condition).

EDIT for more musing - actually in the 3-1-1 Night case Mafia's best chance is to shoot the SK to test the NK-immune claim, because if that kill fails they're losing anyway.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Seian Verian on June 21, 2010, 06:57:53 PM
Haha wow. I didn't do that well at Mafia myself when I played before, but even I went "What." while watching this game.

It was still fun to watch though xP
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 07:06:58 PM
Assuming the endgame being Me+Alice+Choja means scum would win, I basically lost as soon as I convinced Alice to rolecop Sakana. Which he probably would have done anyway (the other choice was testing Choja's claim), so... I guess I lost when Alice failed to be here for hammering Sakana.

This was fun. For all the wrong reasons. :derp:
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on June 21, 2010, 07:08:09 PM
So yeah, we had a BP and a PGO against a Godfather/Rolecop combo and an SK. Sorta imba. In fact, this setup was a piece of shi-ohhh, I see what you did there. :V
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Kefit on June 21, 2010, 07:09:05 PM
Huh? I go to bed and when I wake up I'm lynched over Neo. Really people? Really?

Oh well. As has been explained already, town had a minimal chance to win after Choja's claim. I also screwed up by not just going with everyone and lynching Neo d2, but in my defense Nietz did look really fucking bad at that time.

Alice had me completely fooled though. Good job with that one. A shame you died to a silly paranoid gun owner rofl.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: ?q on June 21, 2010, 08:45:07 PM
So yeah, we had a BP and a PGO against a Godfather/Rolecop combo and an SK. Sorta imba. In fact, this setup was a piece of shi-ohhh, I see what you did there. :V
It wasn't that bad.  Town could have used a Doctor though.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Kefit on June 21, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
Yeah, this game was definitely not balanced. Town basically lost if it didn't hit a scum/SK with the first two lynches. Its only real chance was with scum or the SK killing themselves via Sakana, and that happened too late in the game to be meaningful.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: ?q on June 21, 2010, 09:35:30 PM
Yeah, this game was definitely not balanced. Town basically lost if it didn't hit a scum/SK with the first two lynches.
...and all kills went through, hence the Doctor recommendation.
Between that, three bulletproofs, and a Townie who was only lethal to scum (and the newly added Doctor) I'd say the game would be swingy but not imbalanced.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Pesco on June 21, 2010, 09:40:06 PM
Screw balance, I wanted SK to win. But via earning it instead of hurrdurr.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 21, 2010, 09:42:33 PM
Screw balance, I wanted SK to win.
What wonderful Godmothers we have here :3
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 21, 2010, 09:57:25 PM
Sadfacing because Serela never got lynched. Did he start looking better after D2 or something? I wouldn't know, after Nietz died I just kinda stopped caring and skimmed everything.

Also did I really die just because Choja decided he didn't like me?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: LHCling on June 21, 2010, 09:58:47 PM
tl;dr NS was pretty obvscum in my eyes. It was similar to how he was playing in the previous games but there were notable posts that had scumtells in them; I'm honestly very surprised that nobody picked up on some of those posts. D2 had one very certain post where he used a self-meta clear for starters; only bofh has done that so far in a previous game from what I've seen. Which is a terrible thing to do, regardless of your alignment, known meta and whatnot.

Poor bofh got RNG screwed  ;_;

Town was technically screwed from the start of D4.

Also, WTF at conclusion.

MotK Mafier is the greatest for comedy value; I'll give it that.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: ?q on June 21, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
Screw balance, I wanted SK to win. But via earning it instead of hurrdurr.
*beats you*
*with a CAT*
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serp on June 22, 2010, 01:02:53 AM
Bad play is scummy, folks.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 22, 2010, 01:08:12 AM
Bad play is scummy, folks.
This is why Alice told me you were the only person we could NK on night 1 :]
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Nat Tea on June 22, 2010, 07:26:56 AM
Okay, I'm alive. That's a relief.

:?
The post that Pesco edited with "stfu" was about me asking if I should shoot on a no lynch day.

Assuming the endgame being Me+Alice+Choja means scum would win, I basically lost as soon as I convinced Alice to rolecop Sakana. Which he probably would have done anyway (the other choice was testing Choja's claim), so... I guess I lost when Alice failed to be here for hammering Sakana.
But if Alice lynched Sakana, it would be a scumwin, wouldn't it?

Also, Neo, I thought you thought things through when you voted to lynch Kefit with the other two living people having solid claims. Maybe I'm just oblivious though.

Screw balance, I wanted SK to win. But via earning it instead of hurrdurr.
You're just saying that because of the arguement with the role PM:

Image links attached are my reactions to Pesco's PMs.
D1 Pesco: You win when there are no possible ways to remove you from the game.
N1 Choja: What do you mean by that?
N1 Pesco: Exactly what it says. (http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5862/takingiteasy.png)
N2 Choja: If scum wins, do I win?
D3 Pesco: If they win, you lose. (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1690/07686453d1d8d84c3bb8957.png)

And that's why I claimed Serial Killer on D3. And the rest is history.

Also did I really die just because Choja decided he didn't like me?
I thought you were a wagon jumper, honest!

Actually, I would think it would have added suspicion to Nietz killing you because of a D1 poke. D2 wasn't really supposed to end up like that.



It's still unsettling how this actually turned out. It's like the stars aligned to punch everyone in the face or something...

EDIT: I wonder if Alice is okay with teaching me some Mafia theory. Maybe.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Pesco on June 22, 2010, 09:00:55 AM
2v1+1 is scum win. 1v1 is SK win as umu says.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 22, 2010, 01:13:21 PM
Quote from: Choja
But if Alice lynched Sakana, it would be a scumwin, wouldn't it?
...that's the point, me and Alice were scum! D:
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 22, 2010, 02:19:19 PM
A First Post Mind Hax
Called by any other name
...is still the right choice.

Okay, really, how the hell is it that every time I call out people for doing things I do as scum as scummy behavior, everyone ignores it- but when I'm scum and end up doing those same things, I'm the only bandwagon for the day? I knew he was scum just by the way he reacted to my pressure! He tried to hide behind silly excuses, he tried to omgus me while also trying not to put a solid opinion of me down in the thread so no one could trace it back to him when I was lynched/Killed, He fumbled around with his vote, putting it on lurkers on day one, while said lurker had an excuse (posted before the game no less.) obviously trying to find a safe place to put it until the deadline lynch.

This is all stuff he did day one, and all stuff he should have been lynched for. Why did you all let this slip through?

It's even worse when you don't even get around to lynch him ON THE DECIDEDLY LAST DAY IN THE GAME POSSIBLE. holy crap! What happened here? He never did anything worth contributing, and the stuff he did were all town lynches made to save himself from lynch. This is just ...

And which one of you final dayers said you had read Alice's posts? You must have missed the point where Alice claimed I and Kefit were the only obvtown players, and everyone else was probscum. I seriously doubt ScumAlice would have called Scumlurking Kefit an Obvtown. It takes a lot of guts to throw your whole weight into saying your scumpartner is obviously town. Alice may be smart, but I doubt anybody here has the iron will to do something like that as scum.

I mean, I know the end result is the same by the time that would matter, but how did this really happen?
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 22, 2010, 02:30:45 PM
Quote
He fumbled around with his vote, putting it on lurkers on day one, while said lurker had an excuse (posted before the game no less.)
I'd like to note that I probably would have done that even if I was town, since it was something that Baity did to me last game on D1 too, AND I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE KEFIT THING ;_; We've been over that a few times already ):

Same with the way I reacted about the jokevote stuff. The coinflip vote (and maybe the headcrabs vote) were the only things that would have been different on D1 if I was town. 

Not to say that any of these actions weren't actually scummy. But it's that I would have ended up doing them anyway. And now I know more stuff I'm not supposed to do in later games =D
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 22, 2010, 04:26:10 PM
Quote
I'd like to note that I probably would have done that even if I was town
No you wouldn't have, because then you would have actually been voting for people you thought were scum.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 22, 2010, 04:45:49 PM
No you wouldn't have, because then you would have actually been voting for people you thought were scum.
That logic doesn't really work, because the only difference between the two situations is I'm not going to try to get Alice lynched. Scumhunting when you're scum isn't really much different then scumhunting when you're town, because in both cases you just go after people who look scummy. Well, there may be more differences later on because of scum having nighttalk/plans, but at that point in the game, there isn't much.

The vote on Kefit was just  "You haven't posted yet, come on already!", which as I've said twice already, I I thought was okay because people did that last game on D1 too (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5977.msg330052#msg330052)(Okay, now that I've looked at it again, this was actually "coinflip on prodding NS or HW to post since they haven't", and not exactly a vote on me as I previously said). It was in the spirit of generating more discussion, because there simply wasn't enough information to scumhunt very well yet anyway, along with plenty of time left to shift onto someone I wanted lynched after more information became available. And duh I'd never have done it if knew Kefit had already already said he wasn't going to be there.

why am I typing up big posts explaining why I did what when the game is already over anyway ): Well, discussion is fun at least.

Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Pesco on June 22, 2010, 04:56:32 PM
No no little noobie. What you do as scum and town are very noticeable differences with the intention it gives off. You had absolutely no conviction in your votes as scum. As town, that little bit of genuine effort can be seen.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 22, 2010, 05:08:20 PM
This makes me wonder how it'd work if you made a game that had two scum teams+town; except one of the scum teams was more like a Mason Team with Nightkills in that they win with town. And neither of the two teams was told if they were the scum or mason-team-with-NK.

That setup sounds really weird, and would probably work either stupidly, or like a 2 scum team game that's really unbalanced against scum.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 22, 2010, 05:11:56 PM
Pesco caught my point.

When you laid out your Kefit vote, you were trying to tiptoe out of active discussion without leaving an active contribution. The fact that you were caught off guard by Kefit's reason for not being there is unrelated to why that was scummy.

Cut: Hmm, that actually sounds like an Experiment worth trying.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 22, 2010, 05:28:04 PM
No no little noobie. What you do as scum and town are very noticeable differences with the intention it gives off. You had absolutely no conviction in your votes as scum. As town, that little bit of genuine effort can be seen.
This is the main reason I voted Serela late D1, it really felt to me that all his jumpvotes had very little substance and he was just trying to make up cases/votes to see how they'd work before switching around if they didn't. (This is pretty much what I felt like I was doing in mafioso mafia, but I guess I got away with it so whatever.) Also Serela, that thing you said about me voting you over a bandwagon at the end of the day being ~BAD PLAY~ came off like you were trying to discourage me from voting you without actually having to defend yourself, so that made you look worse too.

Then I died and couldn't do anything about it D2. Gdi Choja.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Serela on June 22, 2010, 05:48:01 PM
Then I died and couldn't do anything about it D2. Gdi Choja.
Wow, Choja killing you actually stopped my lynch and helped him win.

This game was so fucking messed up.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 22, 2010, 05:50:24 PM
I don't think me being alive would have guaranteed you getting lynched D2. There's still the problem of if I eventually found somebody more suspicious, or if I failed to actually pressure you and nobody actually listened and wagoned somebody else. But whatever, it doesn't even matter at this point.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 22, 2010, 06:05:20 PM
That's Pesco for you. Even his normal games are messed up somehow.

Actually, huh what, I think if you were there to help point out a few of the things Serela did, we might have had enough support to get a few more people into lynching him. Ripples in the pond, or something like that. But then again, I might not know what I'm talking about since I still don't understand how you guys ended up switching to a Neitz lynch. Everything between Rou's 125 where he calls Neitz out on LAL and the giant braindread that was Night 2 starting happened while I was away.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Kefit on June 22, 2010, 07:41:40 PM
I don't think me being alive would have guaranteed you getting lynched D2. There's still the problem of if I eventually found somebody more suspicious

That's the problem. Too many townies this game played terribly and looked like scum. I still stand by my Nietz vote d2. d3 was a crapshoot of scumtastic players. I should probably have targeted Neo for "trying to keep the Alice case alive" on top of his stupid vote for me d1, but I guess my memory of the early game was hazy by that point.

Also, Alice demonstrated excellent scum play this game. He may not have posted much, but when he did post he had real content that logically matched up with the current game state. Clearing me, despite my low post  count, was fine because I also posted high concentrations of sensible content. At the very least, it would not have been sensible to target him over our scumgasmic players, unless we were to go with a a LyLo Alice policy lynch as suggested by Kilga on irc.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: Pesco on June 22, 2010, 07:52:19 PM
Lynching Alice at LyLo was my policy since PatchCon.
Title: Re: POS Mafia Day5 Game Over
Post by: LHCling on June 22, 2010, 11:46:34 PM
I'd like to note that I probably would have done that even if I was town, since it was something that Baity did to me last game on D1 too
I should point out (again?) that what I did in that last game was pretty much nothing more than a means of stalling. Also, just because I did something as town, doesn't necessarily make it that all subsequent uses of "Action X" are good to use; this is bordering on metagaming and is something that I don't like.

And duh I'd never have done it if knew Kefit had already already said he wasn't going to be there.
I would imagine that people would be paying attention specifically for these kinds of announcements. Guess I'm mistaken?

Quote
Lynching Alice at LyLo
This is something that I'm going to have to endorse.