Sword Girls Anonymafia - Someone Wins

[Punch Hopper]

[5:20:00] fdgfdgs less then 24 hours and no one wants to move their votes. Yukkii gets headaches just from reading the thread now.

Enough fooling around. We have somehow gone the entire day without a proper wagon. I will be the big girl and make the first step.

##Unvote
##Vote: Kaori

Everyone needs to figure out some compromise in themselves and move their votes together in their next posts.

[Kick Hopper]

I apologize once more for my inactivity but I am pleased to give the news that I have found reprieve from my duties for the time being and am, therefore, capable of diverting my efforts into playing this game and finding those that wish to hinder town from achieving its win condition once more. As we are, once again, pressed for time I shall temporarily cease diverting my energies towards miss Martinozzi and instead further investigate the other people that, I believe, are of interest.
##Unvote

I must express my dissatisfaction of both miss Kanzaki and miss Rose. I believe both of these people to be acting without the town's best interests in mind. As mentioned many times before by others, miss Rose's activity on D1 amounts to a grand sum of nothing. Lurking through the day whilst providing nothing places town in a disadvantageous situation and those that wish to work towards the town win condition should not rely on such a tactic to avoid attention and therefore avoid becoming targets for the day's lynch. Miss Rose's continuation of this behaviour during the second day portrays a lack of remorse which may be used to infer that miss Rose is, indeed, using this tactic in a way that benefits herself and only herself. I must also note something interesting within miss Rose's two posts today. Within both posts are sentiments that defend lurkers. Within this post is a statement that miss Hinanawi is suspicious for directing her efforts towards lurkers and another that miss Rose would not like to see miss Kanzaki's lynch despite the fact that miss Rose labels miss Kanzaki as one that works against the town win condition. When I questioned the reasoning behind miss Rose refusing to vote for miss Kanzaki, miss Rose stated within this post that it was due to the fact that attacking lurkers would appear lazy. However miss Rose then further adds that she would not mind seeing miss Kanzaki falling victim to the lynch if that were to be the day's end result. I ask of the people: Does this willingness to lynch not mean that miss Rose believes in her own thoughts that miss Kanzaki is not working towards the town win condition? If this is the case I refuse to accept miss Rose's reasons for avoiding placing her vote upon miss Kanzaki. I find this mindset to be very strange and cannot fathom any reason so as to why one that works towards the town win condition would be thinking in this manner. I believe that it appears as though miss Rose is attempting to avoid any responsibility whatsoever and is wholly focused on self preservation.
##Vote BlackRose

Despite this miss Kanzaki herself does not demonstrate a higher level of competence. Miss Kanzaki's activities during the first day result in voting for miss Martinozzi for being overly focused upon myself without any opinion given in regards to the target of miss Martinozzi's efforts, myself. In addition I believe that the claim that miss Martinozzi was tunnelling at this point was nothing more than a cheap statement designed to smear miss Martinozzi's reputation. Not much of the day's time had passed nor had there been much activity. I must wonder why it was that miss Kanzaki singled out miss Martinozzi as being overly focused upon another when many others were the same way? Miss Kanzaki's first post for the second day which can be viewed here says, unless my interpretation is incorrect, absolutely nothing that is relevant to the game. Miss Kanzaki's second post is similar to the first in that it offers nothing to those that are attempting to divulge the identities of those that work against the town's win condition. However there is an interesting matter that can be gleaned from this post. It is that miss Kanzaki attempts to present an amalgamation of the ideas of others in regards to miss Busy as her own case. It is true that miss Kanzaki refers to the others from which she has drawn her thoughts within her post but the fact that miss Kanzaki mentions the timing of miss Busy's hammer twice is very interesting. The first time it is mentioned no credit is given to others unlike the second time where miss Kanzaki acknowledges that others have stated this sentiment before she has. I am rather inclined to believe that this is indicative of miss Kanzaki having originally written the contents of this post as though they were her own before deciding against this and noting the appropriate sources of her suspicions as she believed it to be a better idea to take refuge within audacity; announcing that she was doing naught but parroting rather than chancing somebody discovering that none of miss Kanzaki's thoughts were her own. Even if I am mistaken on this point the fact that miss Kanzaki has been pushing for miss Busy's lynch for the entirety of the second day based purely on the premises of others rather than her own is a rather worrying point. Miss Kanzaki also brings up in her latest post that she believes that miss Busy does not place faith within her own case. I wish to ask a similar question to miss Kanzaki. Are you able to believe in your case on miss Busy despite the fact that it is built entirely around the thoughts of others rather than yourself? At this point I would even go so far so as to claim that both miss Kanzaki and miss Rose are working against the town's win condition.

[Den-O]

I change my mind on Esuna, she's obvtown on the lone basis that up until now, everybody has been buddying up to me (naturally, as I am the finest mercenary Ilia has to offer) and I should've been a difficult mislynch from scum's PoV. Seriously.

Yeah, it certainly doesn't have anything to do with her suddenly being transparent as humanly possible, which is something you and Uesugi should be doing but for some unknown reasons refuse to do.


Well, Maka will have to show up eventually and I don't really want to lynch her until I see more from her, so
##Unvote
I will very, very heavily frown upon her if she does nothing more than provide a vote for today's lynch and doesn't make a good mention about the case against her (votepark on Uesugi, tunneling, adding 0 content in her latest post) when she does finally show up, though.

Meiya, your walls still make my eyes hurt. Press the preview button and space the walls out a little before posting or something.

I know that saying "not working towards town's win condition" is your flamboyant RP way of saying "scummy", but something in the back of my head keeps poking at this as suspicious wording similar to Kenshin's #79 (wasn't this #73? have I really been mixing that up all this time? why hasn't anybody pointed it out? you guys haven't been reading me at all  :fail:). Roleplaying issues make these things very hard to read so they most likely won't be in any of my cases, but they inevitably make me read Kenshin and Meiya as scummier. I'm going to try to overlook that as null as much as possible, but it'd certainly help if people didn't cover up scummy comments with RP altogether.

Regarding differences in Blackrose and Kaori's self-preservation:

I somehow find that Blackrose getting prodded more is less scummy. It feels like a PX-ish townie who gave up on the game long ago and barely cares if they get modkilled, whereas Kaori seems to be deftly avoiding prods while posting minimal content to avoid doing anything scummy aside from lurking, so that people won't get any further reasons to vote her. However, when we look at their votes, Kaori was parroting the Esuna case and now refuses to lift her vote despite the case having died down and having most of the support for it gone, which doesn't feel like scum pushing a mislynch, while Blackrose seems to dislike the idea of lynching anybody who isn't scumhunting and posting walls of content, which is scummy as hell. I'm pretty confident that one of the two is scum, but I want to see a Blackrose post before I decide amongst the two.

Like I mentioned before, I feel that the way to go with these two lurkers is to seriously get the two main wagons on them and get them both to claim. Even if we lynch one of them, scum will leave the other one alive in D3, when we most likely won't be able to afford a mislynch, so I'm pretty sure that this course of action would benefit town more than scum as of now. I can't think of anything right now, but I just woke up, so just in case I'm overlooking something important and this is totally wrong, please let me know ASAP so I can change my priorities before the time to reread runs out.



Either way, if there's somebody among the wagons I don't want to lynch whatsoever today, it's Esuna. Eclair, you've been really tunnelly all game and I'd like to know what you think of other people other than "okay yeah lurkers should also die" before we enter the chaotic stage of the day, why do you still think Esuna is scummier than anybody else? what do you think of Maka, Uesugi and the lurkers?
I don't want to be distracting your attention solely to my targets, so if you have anything to point out regarding Tenshi, Meiya, Yuno or even myself then go ahead by all means. (but I would still appreciate it if you had more than a sentence's worth of comment on Maka/Uesugi/lurkers. I'm not accusing you of doing this, but it seems to be cool and fashionable to provide no content in this game so just in case).

And as for Meiya, you've made no mention of the accusations you've received about parking your vote on Eclair all day, and now you're focusing entirely on the lurkers. You've made good points about them, but if you have the time again at some point, could you please explain why you thought Eclair was a good place to set your vote for the whole day until now?

I might be forgetting something important, but this has taken too long, I'll continue and hopefully place my vote when I'm back from routine.

[Kick Hopper]

I placed my vote upon miss Martinozzi for the sentiments I expressed within this post. I was unable to follow up on my actions due to a set of circumstances which rendered me unable to focus my attentions upon this game.

[Den-O]

Really fast comment I really shouldn't be posting due to lacking a decent reread on the issue:
I don't quite follow why misunderstanding a case makes one scummy. Tenshi's cases, my own and many others' have been misinterpreted and required clarification. Your cases are also particularly difficult to follow due to the fluffy wording, so I don't see how a case misinterpretation automatically makes Eclair scum.

Before being accused of hipocrisy seeing how I'm seeing Farina as scummy for similar reasons, I'll clarify that my issue with Farina isn't as much misinterpreting cases, but cherry-picking arguments out of them as she sees fit in order to make them look more or less important than they are as a whole. If this was also the case with Eclair then I apologize for not waiting until getting a reread, but we don't really have much time.
Even if that's the case, though, didn't any of the accusations against Kenshin, Esuna, Blackrose or Kaori satisfy you at all to the point where you'd support pressure on them, instead of pursuing the Eclair case that was dead aside from your input on the issue which was nonexistant throughout the day?

[Kick Hopper]

Again, I had not the time to read through any of the accusations in any form of depth.

[Punch Hopper]

Don't have time to comment, but I noticed there's two people that aren't me on BlackRose now.

##Unvote
##Vote BlackRose

[Ryuki]

Eclair, you've been really tunnelly all game and I'd like to know what you think of other people other than "okay yeah lurkers should also die" before we enter the chaotic stage of the day, why do you still think Esuna is scummier than anybody else? what do you think of Maka, Uesugi and the lurkers?

I already said I am not finding myself in Kenshin's lynch. In any case, I pored over the records Riccotta had of the early battle to see if I'd missed anything! After all, it is hard to keep an open mind and see everything going on during a war when you're already in the heat of battle.

Naturally I dislike her early game vote on me because anyone who votes me is Scum?, but I can understand the thought process behind it and it seems sincere enough.

I don't think this looks like a matter of Eclair not being able to vote two players at once, it comes off more as disconnect, like she doesn't care about reading players aside from her main case.

This though seems more of a playstyle argument. Speaking of, I am still happy with Irene the Second that I do not want to do anything to her.

I definitely don't like

given that I definitely don't trust Eclair right now, consider my negotiations with Meiya's wagon to be over.

since it's the only comment she makes about my case on Meiya sort of a little I guess, and it discredits it based on who posted it, not the merits of its points or whatever.

Not sure how I feel about the request for a hammer and then subsequent attack on Esuna for hammering, although her argument seems much less the fact that Esuna hammered and more the circumstances. In any case, Esuna hammering itself wasn't scummy, for all that I think she is over other points. Farina has the same problem where she votes me and then Sayaka that is also present in Esuna, and it's a bit worrisome that she hasn't had an opinion on scum outside of Sayaka and me.

After asking BlackRose why she was lurking through deadline, it honestly feels weird for her to declare BlackRose Townie, considering it adds to the Kaori/BlackRose lynch thing and edges it closer into 'lynch Kaori' over 'lynch BlackRose.' I of course fiercely dislike how she says Esuna is scummy and then posts this gem:

I change my mind on Esuna, she's obvtown on the lone basis that up until now, everybody has been buddying up to me (naturally, as I am the finest mercenary Ilia has to offer) and I should've been a difficult mislynch from scum's PoV.

Because that's a rubbish reason to declare someone Town.

In short, while I don't think Farina is the shining exemplary hero of Biscotti, I wouldn't label her Galette scum just yet. Most her stances have been consistent and valid with some small exceptions. I do want her to closer explain why Esuna saying she is scummy immediately invalidates any scum suspicion on Esuna Farina had before, especially considering her vote's been on Tenshi all day until the swap to BlackRose. Esuna was just as guilty as Tenshi for ignoring the D1 wagon, except Tenshi openly stated she was ignoring the D1 wagon: why was the public declaration scummy while voteparking on Kaori in preparation of a case on someone else wasn't scummy enough to be voted?

[Ryuki]

EBWOP: The above is all about Farina, of course. How'd I forget to mention her name?!

[Ryuki]

Also unhappy with Meiya's only contribution to the day being a vote on BlackRose, considering she voteparked on me for most of the day for a D1 case that she ignored my response to. If that isn't lazy Galette scum behaviour I don't know what is, and in spite of my intention to look past her I find myself wanting to lynch her still for this incredibly lazy way of handling the game. Everything everyone's said about going after lurkers still applies here, because Meiya only talks about Kaori and BlackRose while there are other scummy people as well.

Gonna read over the records of Tenshi, since I've felt pretty good about her and I want to see if I am right in that feeling.

[Ryuki]

I should probably first respond to the bit about Maka, Uesugi and the lurkers. In reverse order, I don't think the lurkers are worth my attention because they're policy lynch material based on not-playing-the-game-you-jerks. Outside of that, Kaori is extremely lazy and unapologetic which makes me want to murderize her, and BlackRose is just Not There which makes me want to murderize her, and I realize Maka's picked up lurking like Meiya has and it makes me want to murderize them.

I'd need to glance over their posts to decide if there's anything in there that's scummy.

Kaori: Rubbish content, no attention for the state of game at the time of her post, incorrect or outdated observations and unapologetic attitude about her own lacking behaviour. Stereotypical promise of making another post but not doing so. All of these points separate are scummy and I fully understand why people want to lynch her, but it still feels like The Easy Way Out: I'd imagine a scumbag Galette spy to actually try hard and put effort rather than hope to skirt by to endgame on credit of being a useless sack of flesh. As-is I'd support a lynch on her because the content she has is fully scum, I minorly dislike the paranoia that all lurkers can be scum due to hiding since it's an easy stance to take and I minorly dislike the fact that Kaori's lynch and case are easy, open-and-shut things we can all basically agree on that the Content Is Rubbish.

BlackRose: this shows effort. It just takes more effort on my side to actually decipher who she is talking about and it's not clear why her vote goes to Yuno over whoever else she might have thought was scummy. Using her first D2 post to sow dislike on those going after lurkers smells of OMGUS because she is a lurker. I don't have a long list of scummy things she's done because I realize I like her better than Kaori but what content there is is still rubbish and her stance during D2 is hypocritical in that she says Kaori is lurkscum and simultaneously decries people scummy for going after lurkers. If Kaori is scum of whatever flavor you don't suffer her to live.

tl;dr would lynch Kaori much sooner than BlackRose, but also dislike BlackRose. Both lurkers have crappy content on top of crappy participation.

Maka now, then Tenshi.

[Ryuki]

Maka: Dislike opening panic about quietness, especially since I'd need to look at her posts to remember what she posted. (Random note: I realize I still remember Yuno's stances so I like her more because she's memorable.)

I'm unfond of her declaration that it's a toss-up between Yuno and Sayaka, which is supposedly a 'fine' toss-up, and then her subsequent post talking about her having a post written regarding Sayaka over Meiya. I mean I understand since the two are wagoned, but it would have been nice to see the conundrum solved of Yuno and Sayaka who you graded as equally scummy at some point. Her D2 content has been sparse in contrast to D1 content which was large walls demanding activity and now small posts focused on a single person.

She's at least consistent in her suspicions so I'm not that interested in a Maka lynch.

[capt. h]

Quoting for truth (and apathy. Mostly apathy)

BlackRose: (3) Farina, Meiya Mitsurugi, Yuno Gasai
Kaori Kanzaki: (2) Tenshi Hinanawi, Uesugi Kenshin 
Esuna Busy: (2) Eclair Martinozzi, Kaori Kanzaki
Uesugi Kenshin: (2) Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy
Tenshi Hinanawi: (1) BlackRose
Maka Albarn: (1) Quicksword Irene

Not Voting: Nobody!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

~12.5 hours remaining.
Countdown timer

[Ryuki]

About Tenshi, them are a lot of walls, but after reading them I certainly still like her. I can follow her thought processes and feel that she did indeed have misrepresentations used against her for the cases, so I'm not terribly interested in anyone declaring Tenshi must be lynched. A point I agree on is that her first post looks bad, but in light of plenty of other people doing the same except they don't declare it, I don't think it's entirely valid to ride Tenshi so hard for it.

Personally, I'd rather people admit to their laziness than pretend they aren't, for all that Tenshi clarified she did not intend to be lazy. Since I like Tenshi's posting I am not afraid to say I feel she is entirely Town to me and I would be very surprised to see her flip red. Meiya's case on Tenshi was utter rubbish and her initial vote was made over misrepresenting Tenshi entirely (Tenshi voted Maka over panic-mongering by going all post post post and talking about getting a coherent lynch at the start of DAy 1, which Meiya construed into 'you're voting who you think has put in the most effort') so much that I almost want to vote Meiya again given her unnoteworthy presence today and her baffling stances yesterday which seems to be built on continuously misrepresenting the arguments on you and dancing around actually giving an answer.

Still. I should talk about Why Busy now because I've been too Busy looking at others. I feel like such a wall of text spammer now.

[Ryuki]

Amusingly my six-post chain got cut by a vote-count, impressing on me the need to actually solidify on a wagon. I don't like my companion on the Busy wagon regardless, so I do not think I shall see Busy hang today.

I'm honestly confused as to why Eclair thinks it's bad or weird or whatever that I didn't create a case on Uesugi during the night, and instead created it as soon as I had the time to do so after D2 started.

Does the fact that my case came as soon as I had time on D2 to write it instead of the moment D2 started seriously make me worse?

This really just seems like a weird thing to try and use against me. Can't you stick to actual valid points? I think it honestly looks pretty scummy when you start to grasp for weird, sketchy points to use on me even if the rest of your case isn't sketchy.

This makes me go all ლ(?ロ?ლ) considering how it took repeated requests from multiple sources for her to actually respond to the case on her completely, but it's fair enough I guess, although I always like to think Townies have a firm enough grasp on Why Person X Is Scum that they needn't votepark on a lurker in preparation of their actual target. The lack of actual case building on Kaori also doesn't please me given reading her three posts would be easy cakes.

I would like to think I've been doing a good job on this part through D2 so far! Eclair, do you think Uesugi's scumhunting effort D2 being practically EXCLUSIVELY LIMITED TO KAORI is okay? Yes, Uesugi is saying more things then just stuff about Kaori. NO, none of it is actually scumhunting or opinions on who she thinks could be scum other then Kaori or anything of the sort.

I'd like to think you should answer why your content is better than Kenshin's, because I am clearly not seeing it. Kenshin's scumhunting being limited in its scope isn't the slamdunk that you think it is, for all that I hate the lurker chasing, multiple people are guilty of it. And let's not you yourself voteparked on Kaori at the start of the day, so it seems inexcusable to use her D2 conduct to say something about her D1 conduct.

In fact, this is a misdirection answer. My question to you was why Kenshin is scummy over chasing an 'easy' target when you aren't? You certainly never did much D1 that was strongly original considering you jumped onto easy wagons, and you parked your vote on me in the early game without shedding opinions on others. I want to know why Kenshin is scummy for it but not you.

I find Esuna Busy scummy for evading the questions for this long and misdirection answers to the questions posted, but I recognize the futility here when people much rather lynch the lurkers.

I'd vote Kaori over all else, barring revelations. I really should leave now, I wasted my entire afternoon with this post combo. I'll be around again before deadline at least.

[Den-O]

So I take it I didn't overlook anything horrible in pushing Blackrose and Kaori as the main wagons for today.

##Vote: Blackrose

I'm doing this, but I feel particularly hesitant to do so. This is because these two have been actively lurking the hell out of this game, but I'm getting the feeling that the way they're doing it isn't all that scummy. Well, not really, it certainly is scummy as hell, but I don't think scum would be this incompetent about it. Let me attempt to explain why.
If they wanted to live they'd most likely want to justify their lack of activity like PX did in IMP Mafia, but they're not even trying to do that and just keep up the minimal content. Hell, as far as I've seen, they've been doing this active lurking while logged into their mafia accounts, when it doesn't take a genius to open a different browser to lurk without being logged in and then make up whatever excuse for the lack of activity when posting. I want them to claim, but I'm not really sure whether I want them lynched or not. Saying so kind of defeats the purpose of the wagon pressure, yes, but considering I won't be around during the deadline to unvote and that other people probably don't share my opinion and might want to strangle the living hell out of Blackrose and/or Kaori means it's still going to be there anyway.

If it were up to me, I'd get the wagons on L-1/L-2 with a few hours' worth of time left to get them to claim, analyze and discuss the claims and quickwagon Farina at the end of the day due to the amount of holes in her content, if, and only if, Blackrose and Kaori don't look like better lynches after their claims.
So I'm concerned about today's results. LAL should be a viable strategy D1, not D2. If things start to go wild in a way I really dislike, I'll consider getting off the lurkers to try and get a last-6-hours Farina lynch, since it seems that at least Esuna and Eclair, who both read town to me, might support it.

[Punch Hopper]

[3:23:45] Yukkii's brain just exploded reading that last post. Hold on while I clean it up and then we can talk about how awful that reasoning is.

[Punch Hopper]

This basically explains why I prefer BlackRose over Kaori even though you came to the opposite conclusion.  They're lurkers, of course they're lazy.  I'm not really basing my read off the effort, but what I feel like they're trying to accomplish.  BlackRose is more trying to discourage suspicion at her (again, look at her FoSes D1, here, I'll even post them for you)

FoS: Irene

BlackRose would be my 2nd choice for scum. It's these two lines that bug me

FoS Sayaka

But I guess I should not let my feelings get the better of me. In any case, I more or less echo the above posters on Tenshi (that her hedonistic laziness is infuriating), and BlackRose and Meiya (for standing back and laughing at the mistakes of others). I also question as to why Eclair would rather go for what amounts to a useless vote rather than Meiya, whom she acknowledges as bandwagon hopping.

FoS Yuno

Quoting all my posts would be annoying, but I think you get the idea here anyway.

And today she's trying to go after the people that are discouraging her behavior.  So yeah.

Though, looking at the time stamp of her last post it's been over 48 hours since she posted, so I suppose she's approaching modkill territory.

@Mod: How are you handling inactivity modkills?

---

Irene, I'm not quite sure I understand your post.  I can understand being forced onto a wagon you don't like due to deadline, but why do you want to get claims out of both of them?  Especially if you don't think they're scum?

[Conqueror]

Votecount

BlackRose: (4) Farina, Meiya Mitsurugi, Yuno Gasai, Quicksword Irene
Kaori Kanzaki: (2) Tenshi Hinanawi, Uesugi Kenshin 
Esuna Busy: (2) Eclair Martinozzi, Kaori Kanzaki
Uesugi Kenshin: (2) Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy
Tenshi Hinanawi: (1) BlackRose

Not Voting: Nobody!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

A little less than 9 hours remaining.
Countdown timer

BlackRose is currently skirting the edge of inactivity. I've sent her an ultimatum to post; if she continues to avoid the thread she will be modkilled in the manner most detrimental to her faction.

[Den-O]

I already mentioned at some point before that I really disliked Kaori and Blackrose's absolute refusal to provide content, and that getting them to claim might just be the only way to get information out of them. I thought that the stance I just took should've been pretty clear after my last post, but sure, I'll quote the part where I referred to that:

Like I mentioned before, I feel that the way to go with these two lurkers is to seriously get the two main wagons on them and get them both to claim. Even if we lynch one of them, scum will leave the other one alive in D3, when we most likely won't be able to afford a mislynch, so I'm pretty sure that this course of action would benefit town more than scum as of now. I can't think of anything right now, but I just woke up, so just in case I'm overlooking something important and this is totally wrong, please let me know ASAP so I can change my priorities before the time to reread runs out.

I wish I could be as set on lynching them as you are, Yuno, but the closer the deadline gets, the less it feels like I'd be lynching scum with my vote and more it feels like I'm gambling. I obviously worry that I'm letting scum slip right past me just because we have to get rid of lurkers to play decently, but letting scum slip past because I feel too insecure about lynching the lurkers if they're scum would be worse even, so I'm caught between the two, and what I would want to be able to make a solid decision is some damn information on them. I've called them out several times throughout all D2 and got nothing. They're obviously going to continue giving nothing, so I want them to claim and god I'm repeating myself now.
I can see how wanting people to claim is really scummy, but when there's no information on them other than terrible play I just don't see any other way to go about it.

I'm not making any sense am I?

[Punch Hopper]

Hm, alright.  I suppose that's fair.

[W]

My opinions on Esuna are really in limbo right now. I still maintain that her hammer was scummy. However, I second Yuukii in that I think her reactions to everybody's posts to day have looked very townie, including her jerk reaction to my recent content. I also thought that Esuna's Uesugi vote implied she was reading the Sayaka wagon. On a related note, I never mentioned the rest of the case on Esuna aside from the hammer because I didn't see worth in it. Addressing every single point is a good way to make my walls unnecessarily larger than they already are.

Kaori is just infuriating now! I seriously can't see how somebody of either alignment would possibly benifit from ignoring the entire game except for her vote target, and I don't get her! I'm tempted to say her recent post leans tunnelly townie because that's now how you get people off your back as scum when everybody is willing to lynch you. I also get bad vibes from how the entire game is willing to lynch Kaori the most, it gives the impression that her lynch would be to some extent engineered by scum, while the BlackRose lynch has been met with more subliminal opposition than anything else.

There is really no way BlackRose's lurking has been townie, though. She stopped posting while people were giving her passes and were unlikely to lynch her over the other lurker. That's blatant scum behavior, waiting out the day when pressure on you dies down. Like I said, I'd bet she planned to stop posting and engage Kaori at the last moment to secure a lynch with a telegraphed voteswitch, huh?

I still don't see Tenshi's distinction between the two lurkers. Both lurkers have posted enough that there is content to their name that they can be judged beyond how much effort they're putting into playing. I imagine town would want to look into them enough to decide which has outright scummier behavior instead of just treating them like a coinflip.

Maka is somehow fulfilling the activity drop I guessed at the start of the day. Her D2 looks worse than Uesugi's D1. I don't like her right now and I'd really like her to post again for further judgment.

[Punch Hopper]

It's fair, but it's quite silly. Instead of the middle ground, tell us why you dislike Farina so much that you want to quicklynch her after effectively clearing the lurkers.

I do have my own questions for Farina. Weren't you the one that said Kaori was way worse then Blackrose when people were divided between lurkers at Day 1 end, and who insisted Blackrose was just a lazy townie right after calling her out during deadline? Your reasoning for voting with us frankly creeps me out. :S Why does it seem like the only reason you don't want to vote Kaori is because Tenshi is voting her?

I also want to know why you keep questioning Esuna about why she hammered when you were one of the people calling for the hammer at that moment.

Oh why would you of all people cut me. -_- I question why you say that Kaori is the engineered wagon while Blackrose is subliminally scum removed. I question it because you accuse Tenshi because she's not making a distinction between them. Most of the game isn't.

post this out there gonna get

[W]

I do have my own questions for Farina. Weren't you the one that said Kaori was way worse then Blackrose when people were divided between lurkers at Day 1 end, and who insisted Blackrose was just a lazy townie right after calling her out during deadline? Your reasoning for voting with us frankly creeps me out. :S Why does it seem like the only reason you don't want to vote Kaori is because Tenshi is voting her?

I changed my mind based on the way her D2 content plays into her activity schedule.  My opinions from the start of the day were before she went another 24 hours without posting. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I thought she and Kaori would make more of an effort today after the way the day started.

Also, I thought her OMGUS-posting from D1 looked like a townie frustrated with people voting her for reasons she didn't agree with. Calling her out during deadline was because I thought Sayaka was about to flip scum after the revised claim and that BlackRose was trying to avoid commenting on or hammering her buddy. It had less weight after Sayaka flipped town. I didn't wait until after the flip because I thought there was a high % I'd take a hit overnight after most of the players had posted something along the lines of "FARINA IS SO TOWN" that day.

Why does it seem like the only reason you don't want to vote Kaori is because Tenshi is voting her?

That's not scummy like you're implying so much as silly play! I just stated why I'm uncomfortable with the Kaori wagon in the post that cut you.

I also want to know why you keep questioning Esuna about why she hammered when you were one of the people calling for the hammer at that moment.

Hammering alone wasn't scummy. It's what she posted when hammering. Read my posts.

Oh why would you of all people cut me. -_- I question why you say that Kaori is the engineered wagon while Blackrose is subliminally scum removed. I question it because you accuse Tenshi because she's not making a distinction between them. Most of the game isn't.

I am, you are, Uesugi is in that she's blasting one but not the other. Tenshi's the most egregious because she looks like she's making a slight distinction but doesn't put a town effort into deciding between the two, as opposed to, say, Eclair and Esuna. One reason the Kaori wagon looks engineered is because people who aren't making much of a real distinction seem to automatically pick Kaori.

[Kick Hopper]

Firstly, I must apologize once more. Within this post I left a link to this post when, instead, I had been intending to link this post. What I had found particularly jarring was the fact that miss Martinozzi had responded with much passion to a question that I had directed towards miss Miki and had little to no relevance to miss Martinozzi.

I know not how to explain my reasons for placing my vote upon miss Martinozzi for such an extended period of time during this day in a simpler way than what I have already discussed. I placed my vote upon miss Martinozzi with my thoughts from the preceding day but, due to extrinsic circumstances of which I had very little control over, I found myself without the time to read through much of the content that was being released throughout today.

[Kabuto]

I was catching up and for awhile I was all "Hooray, Eclair is actually being town again" and then she went back to using weird as heck reasons on me right before she finished.

I'm sort of getting tired of rebutting these, but okay.

The lack of actual case building on Kaori also doesn't please me given reading her three posts would be easy cakes.

Super misrep, uhhhhhhhh here let me screenshot some examples of me having a case on kaori

> http://puu.sh/lUNO <--- The end of the paragraph here is more the point. Both of the things are critically important things to have. Not exhibiting either of them is beyond horrendous.
> http://puu.sh/lUOH <--- Here I tear apart her post where she votes me because it's horribad.

And as for her latest post... really, I don't think I even have to go over this. For what it's worth, Kaori, no, it does not mean that. Anyway the post is horrendously empty and it should be incredibly clear she's not trying in the least, which is still horribly scummy. Blackrose may not exist (she has not posted in 40 hours), but Kaori does exist and her posts are actively scum-tastic. TBH Blackrose lurks so bad it's almost to the point where "I don't think scum would do that because they're risking just getting an inactivity modkill", but I'm not using that as a reason for Kaori>Blackrose because Kaori is SO [FLUFFING] BAD in the first place.

Okay moving on, think of happy thoughts think of happy thoughts <3 Eclair is cute. But I do think Prosethius is cuter. Doros, on the other hand, is not. I cut him to pieces, though, so it's fine.

Kenshin's scumhunting being limited in its scope isn't the slamdunk that you think it is, for all that I hate the lurker chasing, multiple people are guilty of it.

Difference:Other people are doing more then COMPLETELY concentrating on a lurker and doing nothing else. (Granted, there are some who might not be, but I have more reasons then this on my uesugi case as well at least.)

Not only that, but your point here was that Kenshin's content is supposedly better then mine, because... apparently, because "multiple people are guilty of lurker chasing". ...so just because multiple people did that bad thing Uesugi is doing, suddenly Uesugi's content magically became better then mine? If nothing else, given that both me and Uesugi have made cases on Kaori and condemned her, the fact that I've also done more then that in the realm of scumhunting makes it seem like my content would logically be better then hers.

So how is Uesugi's content better then mine, again?

In addition to this, you are forgetting that I have other reasons Uesugi is scum as well. Let's recap some of them.
-She stops saying anything about Sayaka's posts for roughly the latter half of D1 other then that she does not like them, despite the fact that Sayaka is her main target of the day (Basically, goes :effort: instead of advancing her case against Sayaka any despite a large amount of Sayaka posts having happened and several other possible lynches being around, ones she does not wish to occur!)
-D1, she prioritized Blackrose over Kaori. D2, she comes in after it seems fairly clear that many favor lynching Kaori over Blackrose, and then promptly drops Blackrose entirely and focuses on Kaori. She says Kaori "officially passed Blackrose as scummy in my book", and then never mentions Blackrose again.
-Throughout the whole game, her posts have barely avoided lurker prods

And let's not you yourself voteparked on Kaori at the start of the day

I never said voting Kaori was bad. I want Kaori dead very much. It's not exactly a votepark given that I both made a case on Kaori as soon as I was avaliable and also made a case on someone else and then moved my vote onto said other person. Also before I forget, since it's consolidation time,

##unvote
##Vote Kaori

they needn't votepark on a lurker in preparation of their actual target

This is a misrep, because Kaori is My Actual Target too. I have two Actual Targets. I firmly believe both are scum and I have been saying so all day. Why do you seem to keep forgetting key things about me when you're trying to prove I'm scummy so hard?

My question to you was why Kenshin is scummy over chasing an 'easy' target when you aren't?

Kenshin has NOT DONE ANY OTHER SCUMHUNTING then the easy target today. That is why. She even stopped scumhunting on Sayaka, her target throughout d1, partway through day one.

For people who tl;dred through the stuff I'm saying to Eclair, this post does also have some minor recaps on Uesugi and Kaori, and the Kaori stuff is right at the top.

[Den-O]

@ Farina
When I talked about finding the lack of support to the Esuna lynch weird, I probably should've specified that this was because you seemed to prefer to focus only on the part of the case on her that said that "hammering 1 hour before the deadline with a fluffed up post is scummy", instead of the scummier read flip-flopping, and preferred to vote Tenshi over odd reasons:
- Wanting to turn D2 into a Blackrose/Kaori dichotomy, when a simple glance further down the thread showed that she was focusing on things other than LAL.
- Deflecting people from analyzing wagons, which seems like quite a stretch.

I honestly don't read Tenshi as so damn townie I'd lynch somebody over voting her, if people find scummy behaviour in her that I've overlooked, I'll be more than happy to look into it. It's just that your reasons to vote her aside from scolding Yuno in late D1 seem so... bland.
I understand them, but they're just not something I'd vote somebody over. It felt like you were giving somebody outright scummy a pass and fabricating reasons to vote for Tenshi.

I never said that this was ridiculously scummy and that I'd lynch you for it. In fact, I'd be inclined to think that it's just play not keeping up with my expectations, if it weren't for this:

What in the hell. I can get behind this reasoning when it's ED1 and people using voice recognition makes you want to lynch them, but it's halfway through D2, and to be willing to lynch somebody for posting lots of content/not wanting to lynch somebody for posting not posting lots of content is a ridiculous way of throwing out a town read.
Uesugi voteparked on Sayaka D1, dissapeared, came back a little before the deadline and very briefly commented that she "didn't like her recent posts", using that reasoning to keep said vote. This has been pointed out, and Uesugi completely ignored it and went on to vote a lurker. How in the heck do you completely overlook this scummy behaviour and label him town for an ED1 jokereason?

The line about wanting to believe Uesugi is town was a joke. In short, I've re-read her multiple times and haven't been able to see her as "obvscum lurker manipulating reads so that she can jump on whoever" instead of "succinct townie not posting more than necessary".

The issue with Uesugi was disregarded as a joke, and Farina refused to defend Uesugi from my case for some reason. You don't see me having any issues with defending somebody from somebody else's case if their reasons feel totally off, which is exactly what happened with Tenshi in that very post. Either Farina, as town, read me as so town that she couldn't find scummy intent in a case that she thought was wrong, or she's scum and she just didn't want to get involved with me any further.

The line I also quoted along with that is pretty ridiculous in it's descrediting way of shrugging off the whole Uesugi case, and the more I read her.
The more I read her, the more I get the impression that she's using the excuse of not liking to post walls/read through walls to get away with posting succint content that could hide scum intent more easily, which would fit with wanting Uesugi to live regardless of alignment so that this wouldn't stand out so much. I also don't like how she took zero time to accuse me of discrediting her when she's been all "that's scummy, you're not fooling anybody like that!" discredit-fluffing all game long. But those arguments are not too heavy at all and most likely confirmation bias, I'm just putting it out there anyway as a call-out for her to quit that if she wants me to stop reading her as scummy someday. My main problem with her is how she ignores case points and boils actual scummy behaviour down to nothing, while her own arguments for a Tenshi lynch were much more of a stretch.

I change my mind on Esuna, she's obvtown on the lone basis that up until now, everybody has been buddying up to me (naturally, as I am the finest mercenary Ilia has to offer) and I should've been a difficult mislynch from scum's PoV. Seriously.

Before anybody goes and calls this Eclair parroting, my earlier comment in #272 should make it pretty clear that I also had isues with this argument.

What I do feel like parroting however is how it's also been pointed out that she found Esuna scummy for hammering when she was pressing for said hammer right then, and to that I add that this was when Esuna was looking like a viable D2 lynch, however, as soon as people start openly giving Esuna a town read, she comes up with this ridiculous excuse of a town read. It reads like a pretty opportunistic chance to support an incoming wagon followed by not wanting to stray from the general opinion in order to look more town.

Granted my read on her isn't incredibly solid, and I could understand people not agreeing with it and preferring a different lynch, but it's the least wavery of my scum reads right now, and I would prefer her to be today's lynch as such even though I can't really see people voting for her.

The following shouldn't be interpreted as an attempt to put more weight on the case, it just bugs me:
It has also been pretty unanimously agreed that Maka's D2 so far is tunnel/votepark/nocontent scummy, so why are you bringing that up now when you've been hipsterish enough so far that you've almost only wanted to post original content?

Cut by Meiya and Esuna, only have like 2-3 hours left and I don't want to leave with things unsettled so I'm putting this out and reading.

[Den-O]

Quote from: Farina on March 21, 2012, 12:45:59 pm

    (Also, a part of me wants to believe Uesugi is town just because she's the only :goodposter: not posting a shit-ton of walls at this point. Seriously.)

This is supposed to go between the last two paragraphs of my first quote.

[W]

What I do feel like parroting however is how it's also been pointed out that she found Esuna scummy for hammering when she was pressing for said hammer right then, and to that I add that this was when Esuna was looking like a viable D2 lynch,

I had that read from the start of the day before anybody said anything, but couldn't post it because I wasn't available to be deployed at the time.

Part of this can be proven, too, since I PMed Conq in advance that I wouldn't need a prod, and if you'll check the votecounts, I received no prod after hitting the 24 hour mark.

[OOO]

Whoa, just got the PM. Quick not me over me vote, currently posting up reads.

##Unvote
##Vote: Kaori