Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Suwako Moriya on August 04, 2010, 06:52:22 PM

Title: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 04, 2010, 06:52:22 PM
The Moriya Shrine has been kidnapped by jerks. Are you a bad enough Mafia player to rescue the Moriya Shrine?
 
So Kanako has grown tired of watching me parade about the fact that it's still the Moriya Shrine and not the Yasaka Shrine, and is attempting to seize the name while Sanae's out grocery shopping. That's where you lot come in. I need you with me in defense to save my name from being unjustly removed from my shrine. There's a catch, though; I know some of you aren't trustworthy, because Kanako's too clever to just let me have so many loyal soldiers. I want you all to root 'em out!
 
Rules
 
0. My word is final on all issues. Cirno has similar authority, though we'll try to discuss things if necessary.
1. This is Anonymous Role Madness Bastard Mod Mafia. Emphasis on Anonymous, Role Madness, and Bastard Mod. Assume things at your own risk. (In fact, please assume as many things as possible, it makes watching so much more fun!)
2. All alignment flips can be trusted. This is the one extent to which I will not go.
3. Please try to post with your game account and not your real account. It's really not that difficult to take two seconds to check which account you're on. If you don't trust yourself, use a second browser. I will almost surely not outright modkill for demasking, but I could probably think of some other in-game punishments.
4. Day 1 will last 48 hours. Every subsequent day will last 72 hours. LYLO will have no time limit, though I will add one if the game slows to a crawl.
5. For the first two days, town must lynch. If a majority is not reached, the player with the most votes will be lynched. Sudden death will resolve tiebreakers. In Day 3 and beyond, however, no majority = No Lynch.
6. This game will start with a Night 0. Scum will not be allotted their standard kill, but any and all other night actions may still be taken.
7. Play to win.
8. Don't be lame. If you think you might be about to do something lame, run it by the nineball or myself, and we'll let you know for sure.
9. I may add more to this list later, but I think this will suffice for now.
 
Role PMs coming soon!
 
Still fighting valiantly on:
 
12) Shannon, Third Party Moriyavatar (Winner!)
 
Moved on to greener pastures (probably Sanae's):
 
5) Satoshi Hojo, Town Rebound Striker (Modkilled Day 1)
2) Gamzee Makara, Scum Swiss Army Knife (Lynched Day 1)
13) Roddy MacStew, Town Chess Game (Killed Night 1)
14) Steven Stone, Town Oh Shi- Moment (Lynched Day 2)
3) Shoe, Town Machi Man (Killed Night 2)
4) Sandor Clegane, Scum Crazy Taxi (Lynched Day 3)
10) Miyako Miyamura, Town Streetlife Serenader (Killed Night 3)
15) John McClane, Town Sansei (Lynched Day 4)
11) Saki Marimi, Town Universal Backup (Killed Night 4)
1) Stuff Man, Town Pete Seeger (Lynched Day 5)
6) Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Town Metaknight (Killed Night 5)
7) Stone Mason, Town Psych Whore (Killed Night 5)
 8) Sailor Moon, Scum German Suplex (Lynched Day 6)
9) Razeluxe Meitzen, Town Wonder Twin (Lost on parity)
 
Handy Link Depository:
 
End of Day 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403427.html#msg403427)
End of Day 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407509.html#msg407509)
End of Day 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg410954.html#msg410954)
End of Day 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg415675.html#msg415675)
End of Day 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg421441.html#msg421441)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 04, 2010, 07:17:58 PM
PMs are about halfway done, but I'm being called out for a bit, and Cirno's not around right now. Folks will just have to sit tight until I return, sorry. DO NOT DO ANYTHING YOUR ROLE MAY ALLOW YOU TO DO JUST YET: WAIT UNTIL ALL PMs HAVE BEEN SENT OUT AND I HAVE UNLOCKED THE TOPIC.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 04, 2010, 10:58:34 PM
Okay, all PMs have been sent out! Please confirm that you have received your PM in this thread using your game account, not your real account,, unless you are Shoe or Mari and have already confirmed in private to me.

Once you have confirmed, you may take any Night 0 action you may have! Night 0 will last for either 24 hours or 12 hours after the last player has confirmed, whichever is longer.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 04, 2010, 11:00:18 PM
/cOnFiRmEd
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: DiEnd on August 04, 2010, 11:00:52 PM
##Confirm
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Kabuto on August 04, 2010, 11:05:39 PM
Aye.

/confirmed
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Faiz on August 04, 2010, 11:16:58 PM
Confirm.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Decade on August 04, 2010, 11:17:07 PM
/confirming!

Um...Should I get some tea while we wait for the others to arrive?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Sasword on August 04, 2010, 11:19:51 PM
/confirm
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: OOO on August 04, 2010, 11:29:04 PM
Confirmed
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Den-O on August 05, 2010, 12:05:36 AM
/CONFIRMED!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 05, 2010, 12:24:06 AM
Oh dammit, where the hell am I now? First the Plane Creation Engine crisis and now this? Whether you 'gods' exist or not, I'd prefer you to stop toying with me. There will come a day when you regret it.

...ah, so that's apparently how things are. We all were summoned here for ludricous reasons, as often these plots go, by this tin god...wait, it's that Sue Wacko goddess thingy Kaoli always talks about, isn't it!? Oh, you suck SO hard. Hmmph, maybe you should actually spend time giving your little cleric some actually useful spells rather than wandering around creating parlor games!

So, we have Sue Wacko and a bunch of other misfits pulled from other planes, gathered here for unknown reasons, with Wacky here KNOWING that there are people in this group who'd like to kill us. Oh, by the way, if anyone tries to kill me, you're TOTALLY getting blinded, and then probably torched. I keep Scorching Ray prepped for a reason you know!

Anyway, we have people trying to kill us, and we want to kill those that would kill us. What a childish game! It is positively obvious I, the great and incredibly intelligent Shoe, clearly cannot be stopped in this battle of wits. That Sphinx might have gotten me once, but I'm a bit better at these puzzles now! You 'scum' or 'mafia' or whatever better cower in fear. I'll have all of you discovered within the first couple of hours, so I can escape this stupid place and actually get to saving the world, and far more importantly, my ass!

/me hmmphs

Oh yeah, /confirm.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Ryuki on August 05, 2010, 01:48:11 AM
Confirmed.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: W on August 05, 2010, 04:57:00 AM
I'm here
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Skull on August 05, 2010, 08:36:53 AM
I've built the foundation of this temple, you can bet yer bottom dollar I got a stake in keeping things the way they are.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Ouja on August 05, 2010, 02:50:22 PM
Confirming.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 05, 2010, 06:35:26 PM
You sure this is a Christmas party and not a Halloween party?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 05, 2010, 06:58:17 PM
That leaves everyone but the Leaves, who have informed me they've been blown apart from the pile they once were into a mess on the lawn and thus need to be replaced (hooray real life). One moment while I go on the hunt for a replacement! (Truth be told, I'm glad this came up now.)
 
If you're interested in replacing in, do be aware that you can choose your own character if you like, since the game hasn't started yet.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 06, 2010, 04:37:03 AM
Okay, I've had Sanae rake up that pile of leaves and move it away for me! In the meantime, we have a new guest! Please welcome Razeluxe Meitzen from Mana Khemia 2, who will be joining us shortly!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Kiva-la on August 06, 2010, 04:59:13 AM
Can't be any worse than what Miss Lily makes me do...
 Confirmed.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 0
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 06, 2010, 05:20:27 AM
All right, everyone has confirmed, and all night actions have come in, so let's get this show on the road. You've all waited long enough!

Day 1 begins! You have 48 hours to vote, and 8 votes on one player will automatically lynch them. Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: DiEnd on August 06, 2010, 05:44:59 AM
first

I know some of you people are evildoers in disguise, helping the dastardly Kanako try to take over the shrine! And in the name of the moon, I SHALL PUNISH SHOE! I mean, err, YOU!

Or, well, that works, actually.

##Vote:Shoe
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Skull on August 06, 2010, 07:05:53 AM
Ya high-falutin' frilly feminist. We dun get anything done by smacking the first face that looks funny. We hammr' down the nail that stiks out. We wait for dere screws ta loosen, then give 'em a good wallop.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 06, 2010, 07:18:29 AM
You guys are dodgy people in the heart of every conspiracy.

##Vote Stone Mason
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 06, 2010, 07:40:41 AM
Alright, now that I'm at the hotel, just need to meet the ex and make it lo...

Wait a second, this ain't no hotel.  Guess my preparations to meet the ex worked a little too well.  Of course, this place would have to be under attack by terrorists too.  And just because they want something silly like a name change doesn't mean it'll do any good to knuckle under.  After all, if they can change the name, they'll probably decide they can grab what's in the vaults too.

Now then, Mason.  Gotta say, don't like your attitude.  If there's one thing I've learned about being locked in a building with terrorists, it's that you've always gotta be moving, pressing them.  Whereas you're just wanting us to sit on our asses like some dead end pencil necked beaureaucrat who's pissy cause he had to get out from behind his desk and put his neck on the line for a change.

Well, let's see how you handle having this on yer precious neck.

##Vote: Stone Mason
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 06, 2010, 07:43:58 AM
Now that you have taken over the Moriya Shrine, I have nowhere to return to!  This 'freedom' of mine!

##Vote: Stone Mason for not making the place I belong to strong enough. 
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 06, 2010, 08:42:56 AM
Sailor Moon? Huh, you're that one that would get knocked around by a bunch of third-rate cannon fodder, right? How about you try fighting a real Final Boss on for size?

##Vote: Sailor Moon
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 06, 2010, 11:58:09 AM
WHAT THE CRUD IS THIS PLACE?

Aye, the internet's a strange place. I saw what it did to Dexter, I know from experience. But this place...where are the men? WHERE THE CRUD ARE ALL THE MEN?!

So there's traitors in our midst, lassie? Well, y'don't need to ask me twice who I suspect.

##Vote: Shannon

Tryin' to serve me that muddy English crud? She's out to poison us all!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 12:02:16 PM
##VOTE: Miyako Miyamura

Third on the bandwagon is always scum. Always. FPMH
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 06, 2010, 02:46:39 PM
Vote Chart

Shoe (1): Sailor Moon
Stone Mason (3): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura
Sailor Moon (1): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Shannon (1): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi

About 40 hours to go in Day 1.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 04:56:42 PM
~*~accessing probability database~*~
~*~assessing tables for player character Stone Mason~*~

....Oh.

Why the hell are you morons voting Stone Mason? He has at least a 75% chance of being town at this point! Seriously, it's a damn good thing Wacky brought me in. Without the power of the mathemagic lattice, you all would be lost, and lynching a likely innocent. Fools.

Now, you know who's not innocent? Anyone who DARES question my innocence!

##Vote: Sailor Moon

I think I heard about you in Tsunami, what with all the crazy weeaboo stuff there. You're kinda a ditz, aren't you? But, it's OK, we'll put you out of your misery soon enough. Not ALL of us can have an INT score of 19, you know.

Now that I have elegantly solved the first scum for you, just wake me up when she's lynched and flipped :3c

/me takes a catnap.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kiva-la on August 06, 2010, 06:24:25 PM
*sigh* And here I thought I'd finally managed to escape. Now then, if we use a little logic here, we can see that all three votes on Stone Mason were placed at approximately the same time. We can also see that they were all within an hour of not only each other, but the stone mason post. Hmph. I think I smell a conspiracy here, and it's not just the Mason.

##Vote: Miyako Miyamura

I'm not too sure about the rest of you, either, but at least John provided reason, whereas Ms. Miyamura didn't.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 06:48:46 PM
mAaAn, WhAt ThE mOtHeRfUcK iS uP wItH yOu pEoPlE bEiNg So QuIcK tO vOtT? i DoN't WaNt To Be AlL dIsApPoInTiN aNyOnE hErE, bUt MaN i ChEcK oUt HoW tHiS mOtHeRfUcKiN tOpIc Is DoInG aNd AlL i SeE iS a BuNcH oF mOtHeRfUcKiN hAtE. mAn, WhY cAn'T wE jUsT cHiLl ThE fUcK oUt FoR a WhIlE aNd BaKe SoMe PiEs AnD sHiT? tHaT wOuLd bE tHe BiGgEsT mOtHeRfUcKiN mIrAcLe ThIs ToPiC cOuLd SeE. :o) hOnK
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: DiEnd on August 06, 2010, 07:19:45 PM
@Evangeline (http://): You must have not seen the episodes where I go God Mode Sue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) on their asses. H-hey, why aren't I in the examples list?!  :ohdear:

@Shoe (http://puu.sh/5LA):Well, you sure sound pretty confident for what's presumably a joke vote. And hey, stop making fun of my IQ, it's not my fault I'm blonde :(

@Gamzee:Hey there fluff! Got any actual contributions to make? And holy luna that text is irritating to read, are you trying to distract us from how incredibly useless your post is by being all... all... uh... I know there's a word for it...
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Faiz on August 06, 2010, 07:33:29 PM
When two individuals defend each other from accusation, it is only possible for those two to be accomplices.

However, it is still unclear whether or not Mr. Mason and, er... Shoe are present on behalf of Miss Kanako, so I will delay my vote for now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 07:41:45 PM
SaIlOr mOoN, wHaT ThE MoThErFuCk iS WrOnG WiTh cHiLlIn oUt iNsTeAd oF BeInG AlL AbOuT ThIs rAnDoMvOtE ShIt? I JuSt wAnT To cRaCk oPeN SoMe wIcKeD BoTtLeS Of fAyGo aNd hAnG WiTh mY ToWnIe bRoS, nOt bE WhEeL DeEp iN SoMe fUcKiN PiE FuLl oF AcCuSaTiOnS AnD ShIt tOpPeD WiTh sTrIcT LyNcHeS. aNd eVeN If yOu tHiNk nObOdY HaS GoT EvEn tHe mOtHeRfUcKiN GuMpTiOn tO CaLl yOu oUt, WhY ArE YoU StIlL KeEpInG YoUr rAnDoMvOtE InStEaD Of vOtInG Me iF ThIs iS SuCh a fUcKiN PrObLeM?

##vOtE: sAiLoR mOoN

nInJa'D bY sOmE fUcKiN mIrAcLe ThIeF rUiNiNg ThE cHaRm Of AnOnYmAfIa, BuT mOtHeRfUcK bRo. i'M jUsT gOiNg To IgNoRe ThEsE mIsTaKeS aNd GeT dOwN tO bUsInEsS.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 07:43:03 PM
Another moron already? You see, Mr. Stone, I understand it's hard to actually think things through when you don't have 19 INT. Honestly, I sometimes wonder how you normals solve a simple math problem with such low INT scores. But, either way, you're hypothesizing is at best, hilariously stupid, and at worst, ridiculously scummy.

See, the scumminess that leaks from it is as follows:
1. You're trying to out the possibility of neighbors or masons. Why do you do this? Because you want to know who to kill?
2. You're forcing a false dichotomy to lead to at least one mislynch, that anyone using common sense to point out someone who's obviously town coming under fire is somehow scummy. This is not town like behavior.

There are a number of other possibilities someone with your small mind couldn't possibly have considered. Or perhaps you did and so chose to misrepresent them. Either way, since scum are falling all over themselves to get caught, I believe I will contribute my vote to...

##Unvote, ##Vote: Steven Stone

Just because of Steven Stone's attempts to railroad us with bad logic and out power roles, this level of reasoning is possible for Shoe. What do you think, everyone ;)?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Faiz on August 06, 2010, 07:51:09 PM
You are, of course, jumping to conclusions. I have not yet accused anyone of being scum. If you didn't come to the conclusion already what with your genius intellect, I have considered the possibility of you two being masons (which, of course, will make sense considering Mr. Mason) or neighbors, which is why I refrained from voting.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 07:52:28 PM
MaN, i dOn't fUcKiN' sEe hOw tHaT MaKeS StEvE LoOk sCuMmY, sHoE. bRiNgInG Up tHe pOsSiBiLiTy oF MaSoNs iSn't gOiNg tO DrAw oUt aNy mAsOn cLaImS Or sHiT LiKe tHaT In eArLy dAy 1, So i dOn't kNoW WhAt tHe mOtHeRfUcK YoU'Re tRyInG To sAy wItH PoInT OnE. hOnEsTlY HiS BaD LoGiC aNd WiThDrAwAl Of A vOtE cUrReNtLy JuSt sEeMs mOrE LiKe dErP To mE, iT'S NoT PaRtIcUlArIlY ToWnIe bUt cOnSiDeRiNg hOw eArLy oN We aRe i'm jUsT GeTtInG A BuNcH Of fUcKiN BiTcHy nUlL ReAdS FrOm hIs pOsT. iT SeEmS MoRe lIkE YoU'Re vOtInG HiM FoR BaD PlAy tHaN ScUmMiNeSs.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 08:05:17 PM
See, Mr. Stone further implicates himself here. He addresses the fact that I already addressed and said was scummy, as if it weren't. There was NO REASON to speculate on what role I may or may not have, and it was scummy to try to imply we could or could not be masons or neighbors. Had Stone bothered to read my post rather than be scum, he might have realized that's what got me to vote him.

Secondly, you imply the ONLY possibilities for my behavior are Mason/Neighbor/Scum, the last being the most foolish thing you could possibly thing. The thing is, there are FAR more possibilities you refuse to acknowledge, and the tone of your post reads of trying to force others to think in your pattern. Thankfully, someone as intelligent as I am was around to keep people thinking rather than derping their way into a logical trap you neatly set up.

We've found a scum on page 1 (page 2 for 30 post per pagers). All we have to do is lynch him now, unless he can think of an adequate defense for his rolefishing and logic trapping? Even I'm willing to reassess if you got something. After all, you don't get to be as smart as I am without constantly questioning what you know...something I learned from the Plane Creation Incident, as it were. Of course, I'm still right 95% of the time. After all, I'm me!

To be fully honest though, Gamzee is half right I'm voting Mr. Stone for bad play, but I feel at this juncture his bad play benefits scum more than town, and his intent is to further the goals of scum by drawing out roleclaims that are unnecessary at this time. If he can demonstrate otherwise, as I said, he will be absolved of his current case of being scum. As for Gamzee's illiterate counter to point one, it's the fact the speculation is being railroaded that way, when it shouldn't be touched.

BONUS CONTENT: By Mr. Stone's logic, Gamzee and him are either masons/neighbors/scum. I'm sure he doesn't want us to think that, now does he?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 08:16:48 PM
Fantastic Shoe. I'd be right there with you if I wasn't busy lynching the incredibly scummy Miyako. Steven Stone is now my second candidate. GJ
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 06, 2010, 08:17:56 PM
@Sailor Moon: It put me to sleep. I've seen more impressive stuff out of the boya back when Chachamaru still did a number on him. You're gonna have to step up your game if you want to go toe-to-toe with big baddies like me.

@Shoe: I'll save my breath, since you took the words out of my mouth.

you're hypothesizing is at best, hilariously stupid, and at worst, ridiculously scummy.

Either way, I could do better without walls of senseless drivel first thing in the evening.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Shoe

Now, did someone say something about tea...?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 08:23:14 PM
In case people haven't noticed HEY IT'S THE START OF DAY 1, SHITTY REASONS TO VOTE PEOPLE ARE GOOD REASONS BY THIS POINT BECAUSE IT BEATS VOTING RANDOMLY.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 08:25:56 PM
MaN, wHaT ThE MoThErFuCk iS SaKi hErE TrYiNg tO SaY? iS ThAt tHiS HuMaN SaRcAsM I'Ve hEaRd aBoUt? BeCaUsE ShIt bRo, EvEn iF ShE's SiNcErE, hEr pOsT HaS LeSs sUbStAnCe tHaN An eMpTy pIe tIn. WhAt mAkEs mIyAkO So mOtHeRfUcKiN HoRrIbLe aNyWaY? i'm nOt tOo wIcKeD On tHe sTeVeN CaSe bUt sHe dOeSn't sEeM AnY FuCkIn wOrSe tHaN HiM To mE.

NiNjA'D By mOrE SaKi. Ok i'm aSsUmInG SaRcAsM Or sOmE ShIt lIkE ThAt nOw. BuT WhAt tHe mOtHeRfUcK Is sHe tRyInG To gEt aCrOsS In tHaT CaSe? Is sHe jUsT TeLlInG Us nOt tO VoTe pEoPlE FoR FuCkIn sHiTtY ReAsOnS WhIlE StIlL JuGgLiNg hEr oWn jOkEvOtE?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 08:29:58 PM
Oh my, another fool shows themselves. It appears you are suffering from cognitive dissonance, or attempting to be funny and failing. It's interesting that rather than voting on actually scummy behavior, you are content to vote someone using an inconvenient playstyle. Gotta say that's worthy of keeping a scry or two on you. Evangeline, however, amazingly, has not made a post that translates to scum, just utterly and hopeless retarded. I'm sorry about the INT score of 8, with a CHA of 6, dumbass :3c.

Your WIS is the worst though, a simple 2. After all, the sheer amount of unwiseness it takes to attack me is impressive. I advise you take a few classes and become more aware of yourself before attempting to further this approach.

@Saki: Now, you see, I'm a sheltered young kitty, and spent most of my time in a lab run by tyrants. As such, I'm not so great at telling sarcasm. I get the feeling you are making fun of me but the probability tables put it at 50% at best. I'd appreciate more clarity, please :3.

@Saki: Ah, your post that cuts me explains my thoughts exactly. You'd be surprised how much information is left to sweep in later days from a loud and boisterous day one. Wagon analysis is one of the strongest weapons town has, and yet so many of you are willing to throw it away. Fortunately, I am aware of the intelligence handicaps most of you are dealing with, and thusly have no reason to interpret your intents as scummy so much as stupid.

In fact, since I'm dealing with so many of inferior intelligence, I'll spell it out for you. The probability tables concerning my votes are very uncertain, and in the orange at best. I'd say Mr. Stone has reached approximately 50% chance of being scum, assuming a starting chance of between 25 and 33%, as is normal for this game. Sailor Moon is probably 40ish%. Stone Mason, the good Stone, is at about a 20% chance given the early wagon. There are other percentages involved but this should give you basic idea of my probability based scumhunting.

Naturally, as one who bends to the will of probability herself, I let it guide me. This is how my magic ends up fluctuating so as to be massively powerful at times. But that's not relevant to this game.

@Gamzee: Hmm, I really hope Saki isn't being sarcastic, since that would be anti-town :O.

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 06, 2010, 08:31:02 PM
Can't say I like the idea of anyone being targetted for 'bad play'.  Lotta things that can cover, and it cuts both ways.  And, if we're busy fighting over the guys who accidentally help the terrorists, then we're not hunting the real terrorists.  Also, seems you're reading one hell of a lot into the little bits he says.

Now, my gut says that we've got a grand total of jack on the kid there.  But you, I'm real interested in the way your painting the kid.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Shoe

Edit: I don't know whose they are, but it's damn hard to talk with all these ninjas around.  I'll deal with them later.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 08:34:27 PM
What are you going on about Gamzee? I'm not putting down jokevotes, I explained my reason. FPMH, best reason ever. Also, third on the wagon is always scum. Always. It's not a jokevote, it's a serious vote. Not like there was any better stuff to vote at the time. I think I have better stuff right now in my ninja though.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree with Shoe, but for different reasons.

Speculating that there may be masons is DERPTASTIC at its best and DERPTASTIC at its worst. But withholding a vote ALONGSIDE derptastic reasoning doesn't help town any zit. It means you're not tying yourself down to voting someone until you can go on later waving about your doodlesack yelling "HAY GUISE, I GOT THIS!" and vote for someone expressing obvious scum sentiments or, if you pull off the lurk well enough, who town already wanted to vote.

Put a vote down or go down the gallows, I say, and I'd dedicate myself to the cause if I wasn't so sure that third on the wagon is always scum.

Not happy with Evangeline either. Quoting Shoe and voting him for the exact same reason he votes Stone (LOL BAD LOGIC) doesn't make a compelling case. Start putting in the elbow grease, woman.

##UNVOTE: Miyako
##VOTE: Evangeline


Well, at least until you can explain what about his reasoning is so bad that he must be voted, as clearly his case and your case are similar: voting people for bad reasoning. This is terrible reasoning, just a step down from bad reasoning.

Man, cascading. I can't even put down an idea of conviction because the moment I do someone else jumps out to seize my vote.



Shoe did you just call me stupid.  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 08:41:48 PM
TL;DR

I think Stone is scummy because he's come up with a shitty reason not to vote. Bringing up Masons when it's not a common role means either:
A) You're a mason and you're flavour dropping
B) You're a rolecop, you spotted masons and are flavour dropping
C) You're trying to find a shitty reason not to vote

I'm putting my chips with C.

Voting for people even though the reason is crap is how you start Day 1. We can't work with anything if people are tip-toeing around without voting. Voting is town's weapon. Not voting is not using town's weapon. Not using town's weapon is being a lazy bum, and being a lazy bum means you're a NEET.

NEETs are scum, ergo, they are Scum.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 08:48:37 PM
I wonder how many times I will have to call you fools fools. John Mclane once again makes the novice mistake of assuming that srs business D1 is scummy, when quite honestly it's the best way to get insight into one's motives. As a town kitty, I obviously want you to have insight into my motives, though granted you all seem to be so terminally stupid as to misinterpret those motives. John still does not blip the scumdar so much as the FOOLdar.

@Saki: No, actually, you seem to be one of the few in this hellhole that actually rivals my intelligence. It appears that I rolled in my contempt for most of the others here with the paragraph directed at you, and I apologize.

Anyway, to elaborate why I don't find Evangeline scummy at this juncture, as well as why Gamzee and John don't bug me outside of their demonstrable lack of wisdom and intelligence. Basically, in this setting, a lot of you will make stupid mistakes like dismissing D1. And guess what? D1 during D1 is a pile of random. You can make some order out of it, but it's unlikely you'll get anywhere. The thing is, you still have to try. You know why? Because D3 or D4, when you are starting to get to the nitty gritty, and trying to line up a scum so you can toss them in a Fireball, D1 becomes critical. D1 is where town knows the least and scum know the most. Scum WILL carelessly drop tells that show they know things they shouldn't, or that they intend to fuck up town. I've had experience in my many travels with this phenomena. I made a correct decision in lylo purely because I reviewed D1.

Now, you know what the most reliable gauge of someone's D1 opinions are? Their vote. Holding back your vote is VERY scummy as it's hiding information about your intent. Assumably, despite the massive intelligence deficiencies most of you have displayed, you at least know enough to not quickhammer, right? And if someone were to it would cast a lot of suspicion on them, right? Therefore, your vote is not very dangerous, and is actually very helpful in creating an objective measure of thought process. I've explained why D1 thought process is critical late game. So, therefore, you should see my logic in the votes I make at this point.

Finally, Evangeline and John are at least voting, if for terrible reasons. However, the implications found in their post imply that at some point they will move on to actual cases, since there is no possible way to implicate me. And if they continue to pursue this route, it'll be telling later. So, they take quite a risk trying to attack me, which means, for the time being, they aren't amazingly scummy, just stupid.

Perhaps no one has broken a 50% threshold of scuminess yet, but for what's there, I've been doing the best I can. Honestly, I'm probably getting closer to being right, if I'm not already.

After all, I am the great Shoe, a powerful wizard as well as the future goddess demon of cats. I'll admit, once I do ascend to being Laplace's Demon, I'll kinda miss games like this since the molecules will just make it painfully obvious who's scum and town, along with knowing everything else. It's no fun playing games like this with perfect knowledge, but it can't be helped. After all...it is fate.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 08:59:06 PM
sAkI: gOg dAmN BrO, i dOn't kNoW If tHiS Is jUsT In-cHaRaCtEr oR SoMe sHiT, bUt aRe yOu mOtHeRfUcKiN ReQuIrEd tO Be aLl sAtIrIcAl aNd sOmEwHaT AnTaGoNiZiNg aLl tHe fUcKiN TiMe? MaYbE YoU ShOuLd jUsT TaKe tHe tImE To cHiLl fOr a bIt.

HoW SaKi kEePs sAyInG ShE DoEsN'T LiKe sTeVe wHiLe aVoIdInG GeTtInG A FuCkIn vOtE On hIm aLl uP In hErE Is rUbBiNg mE ThE WrOnG WaY. mAn i cAn sEe iF ShE ThInGs eVaNgElInE Is wOrSe oR SoMe sHiT, bUt wHeN ShE OrIgInAlLy cAlLeD HiM OuT It sEeMeD LiKe sHe wAs jUgGlInG TwO PoTeNtIaL VoTiNg tArGeTs yEt cHoOsInG ThE OnE ShE CoUlD FoCuS On tO MoCk fPmH. iN fAcT iT eVeN sEeMs LiKe ShE's FoCuSiNg MoRe On StEvE, whHaT ThE MoThErFuCk iS Up wItH ThAt? It's wEiRd hOw sHe's dWeLlInG On sTeVe mOrE ThAn tHe pErSoN WhO ShE CuRrEnTlY HaS A VoTe oN.

BuT MaN I'M NoT FeElInG MuCh fUcKiN GoOdEr AbOuT ShOe, YoU KnOw? A LoT Of tHe pArTs oF ShOe's pOsTs aRe aLl sTrAiGhT Up wEiRd fUcKiN PaRaGrApHs oF In-cHaRaCtEr fLuFf tHaT DoN'T AcTuAlLy cOnTaIn  MuCh cOnTeNt, HeR BlUrB On eVaNgElInE BaReLy aCtUaLlY GoT AnYtHiNg aCrOsS AsIdE FrOm a bUnCh oF RpG ShIt. AsIdE FrOm tHaT, jOhN McClAnE PrEtTy mUcH HiT ThE NaIl oN ThE FuCkIn hEaD HeRe, LyNcHiNg sOmEbOdY FoR BaD PlAy iS MoThErFuCkIn sTuPiD, jUsT BeCaUsE ThEy aReN'T AlL ChIlL WiTh tHeIr gAmE YeT DoEsN'T MeAn tHeY ArE AcTuAlLy sCuM, aNd mAn, ThE LaSt tHiNg wE NeEd hErE Is aN OpEn bOtTlE Of fUcKiN DeRpToWn lYnCh fAyGo.

##uNvOtE
##vOtE: sHoE

aAaUuUh, ShOe PoStEd MoRe JuSt NoW bUt It LoOkS rIdDlEd WiTh MoRe FlUfF. i'Ll ReAd It AfTeR tHiS gEtS pOsTeD.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 09:04:57 PM
aAuUh, I jUsT sTePpEd On A fUcKiN hOrN aNd NoW i FeEl LiKe I sHoUlD bE aLl wOrKiNg On ClArIfYiNg My PoSt. ThE ShIt aBoUt wHaT ShOe hAd tO SaY On eVaNgElInE WaS In rEgArDs tO HeR EaRlIeR PoSt wHeRe sHe fIrSt rEsPoNdEd tO SaKi.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 06, 2010, 09:16:25 PM
Holy fuck you guys post a lot. If I had to read all these walls I'm not going to get any work done for PoSR.

##Unvote

In case people haven't noticed HEY IT'S THE START OF DAY 1, SHITTY REASONS TO VOTE PEOPLE ARE GOOD REASONS BY THIS POINT BECAUSE IT BEATS VOTING RANDOMLY.

First Post MindHax doesn't work like that and you are not Pesco.

What are you going on about Gamzee? I'm not putting down jokevotes, I explained my reason. FPMH, best reason ever. Also, third on the wagon is always scum. Always. It's not a jokevote, it's a serious vote. Not like there was any better stuff to vote at the time. I think I have better stuff right now in my ninja though.

----------

Put a vote down or go down the gallows, I say, and I'd dedicate myself to the cause if I wasn't so sure that third on the wagon is always scum.

Not happy with Evangeline either. Quoting Shoe and voting him for the exact same reason he votes Stone (Ha ha, old chap! BAD LOGIC) doesn't make a compelling case. Start putting in the elbow grease, woman.

##UNVOTE: Miyako
##VOTE: Evangeline


Well, at least until you can explain what about his reasoning is so bad that he must be voted, as clearly his case and your case are similar: voting people for bad reasoning. This is terrible reasoning, just a step down from bad reasoning.

Why are you removing your supposed serious vote to a prod vote?

##Vote Saki Marimi

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 06, 2010, 09:23:02 PM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara
Stone Mason (1): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (1): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man
 
No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Satoshi Hojo, Stone Mason, Shannon, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Shoe is at L-4. About 31 hours to go in Day 1.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 06, 2010, 09:23:45 PM
Aye, so ye'v started discussin' for real then. I'll let the girl go for her cruddy taste in beverages for now.

##Unvote

Now, let's look at-

WHAT THE CRUD IS THIS?!

How are you people making so many words out of so little action? Cut the crud, and talk about what matters!

Alright, so. Third vote on Stone Mason is nulltell, discussion has to start somehow.

Shoe. I don't care if you're a wizard or a kitten or Robert the Bruce reincarnated. Show some respect to other players rather than calling someone a moron every other sentence. There's roleplaying, and then there's decency.

Gamzee/Steven/StoneMason not random voting is nulltell. It's been discussed several times over that not randomvoting early D1 is a matter of playstyle, and we've had way too many mislynches for it to still be worth following up on.

Now, onto actual suspicions/observations:

Evangeline's vote on Shoe reeks of easy target. The whole 'I'll let her quote explain itself' rather than giving reasoning feels like crud to me, because rather than explaining herself she tells other people to basically give her a reason. I'd like to see her come back and clarify her stance beyond 'Shoe is playing like an idiot', because bad play isn't inherently scummy. It's cruddy, but it isn't scummy.

Steven...och, Steven confuses me. I'm trying my best, but I can't find any reason for Scum!Steven to declare that he thinks Shoe/Mason are, uh, Masons. Firstly, the only reason he'd be so confident of such an accusation on D1 was if he was a scum rolecop who'd targeted one of them N0, but even then he'd have no reason to discuss it or he'd give himself away. I'm thinking he's just being a bit clueless right now.

As much as Shoe's attitude annoys me, I can't find anything wrong with her beyond the fact she's trying too hard and engaging in the usual 'lynch derp, not scum' attitude that MotK seems to have.

So. I'm going to step a little away from the usual suspects.

##Vote: Saki

A good paragraph and an EBWOP about how Steven withholding his vote for bad reasoning is scummy...followed by placing her vote on Evangeline instead. What the crud?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 06, 2010, 09:25:56 PM
Well yippie kai yay, motherfucker.

If I was going for folks cause they were 'srs business' as you put it, then I'd have to shoot myself.  My issue with you is that it's easy pickings for someone to take some damn rookie, twist what they say, make 'em look real bad, then dig their hole deeper every time they try to dig outta the pit you made, all the while acting all chummy towards the folks you can't pull that shit on, and confirmin' what they know by saying they look clean.  Classic terrorist tactic, and damned easy if you've got a shred of brains.  And who's the guy claiming to have some 19Int like it's a good thing?

Not to mention, you spend a lotta time yappin' for what you're saying. 

Also, now I'm curious.  You've done all that rattling off about votes.  So, why the vote on Steve, eh?  C'mon, you can tell me.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 06, 2010, 09:26:20 PM
EBWOP: Also, Gamzee's act of pointing out Saki's misgivings but then voting Shoe for taking part in what looks to me like the usual derptastic Town play is flaring up my CRUUUUUD-o-meter.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 09:35:21 PM
Oh my, I should have known the illiterate one who's against early voting would jump on the idiot wagon. Fool.

Either way, the fundamental misunderstanding seems to be I'm attacking Stone solely on bad play. This is not the case, and anyone with the intelligence required to read and understand my wonderful posts would know that. Of course, I'm surrounded by incompetents, a lot of them suspiciously on my wagon. At this point we might want to look towards that wagon to find scum, at some point. Perhaps it is still yet early though.

At any rate, the thing is, Stone's "bad play" is done with scummy intent, as I explained. You all have chosen to misrepresent that as being a pure accusation of bad play. Granted, I can't expect morons to make the distinction so easily, but thankfully, you have me around to explain it.

Further, what you call fluff appears to be mafia theory that has a sounder basis than most of the posts this game. I can't expect someone as illiterate as you to get that though. Alas, I wish I knew words small enough to get my point across, but, as you say, that'd probably take a "fukken miracle".

Since apparently the length of my posts are irritating to some of you, allow me to utilize a function known as "tl;dr" in the vain hope that something clicks in your sluggish minds.

tl;dr: I'm voting Stone based on scummy intent. While a component of that is bad play, it's bad play that gives a clear advantage to scum if allowed to pass unmolested. Everyone voting me don't have a leg to stand on, but I'm interested to see where this information will lead.

Actually, let's try something. Could anyone voting me explain your vote? Use as many words as needed :3c.

Ah, it appears there has been a ninja or three.

@Roddy: While decency should apply, I believe it is also common decency to at least try to think when you are playing a game that requires thinking. Anyone I have called a moron has violated such rules of ettiquette by trying to pass off their terrible posts as thinking. Honestly, I've been rather "good", so to speak, dealing with those of inferior intelligence. Regardless, it is not in my interests to get in a fight over this. I will...attempt to overlook these egregious violations against the principles of thought in the future. Do you accept this?

The rest of your post is solid, and I will accept the onus on me to explain why the mason situation is scummy. It's a weak rolefish, that, when denied or confirmed (highly unlikely to see the latter), allows scum to have a better sorting algorithm for their kill. Masons are one of the most powerful roles around, and as such as good to try to out if they exist. However, that's not the crux of my argument against Steven. It's the fact he's attempting to railroad the situation into an obvious relationship between me and Stone Mason. This benefits scum in that it perpetuates a thought process likely to lead to mislynch if the neighbor/mason probability is eliminated. Given the sheeping that's occurred this game, I lack confidence in the abilities of my fellow townies to discern the logic trap. I think Stone realizes this as well.

You're observations on Saki worry me, and they bear bearing out. I was blinded by the fact she did seem to make sense in agreeing on Stone, but the fact her votes fail to reflect this attitude is...not good. I want a reply from those on my wagon to the earlier question posed, first though.

Ah, more ninjas:

@ John: I have explained this several times, and even within this post. It is well explained in all of my posting since the vote. This heavily implies you aren't reading my posts so much as voting me because it's "too hard" to really comprehend them. I also would invite you to consider that new does not necessarily mean that someone is always town. But I disagree he's making noob mistakes, so it's a moot point.

Your accusations are, quite frankly, unfounded. But I'm glad you clarified them. I urge you to think critically of what you've accused me of and reread my posts. Try to discern my intent. I'm sure you will find it far from that of a "terrorist" as you call it.

@Roddy: I like you ^-^.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 09:38:29 PM
@Stuffman: Who says I'm not Pesco. :V

Quote
Not like there was any better stuff to vote at the time. I think I have better stuff right now in my ninja though.

Not like there was any better stuff to vote at the time. I think I have better stuff right now.

--

@Roddy: Because apparently Steven's bad behaviour needs to be highlighted because people can't understand it. Evangeline's is pretty easy to grasp, she has a shit reason to vote (namely that the other's reason is shit), which compounds to Double Shit, or Shit2.

I didn't think it needed a lot of explanation why I thought that was a bad reason, but I can certainly mire on for several paragraphs about how it is bad to vote someone for the exact same reason you're voting them.

To wit, it's because you're being hypocritical. You're accusing someone of doing something that you, in that precise act, do as well. Let's say you're accusing someone of accusing someone. Shoe's vote on Stone is the same as Evangeline's vote on Shoe. It's a vote because you think their playstyle is cruddy and composed of derpisms. It's a contradiction because she's voting Shoe because he's voting for the same reasons. She's voting while being guilty of the same crime. She's attacking her partner in crime. Like turning on Juiz or something.

It's bad because it's bad. It's contradictory. She doesn't make a vote based on proper and sound deductive reasoning, she makes a vote based on "derp" that's basically filled in "derp". I can vote her for "derp", then Stone votes me for "derp" and we have the Round Table right there. Stone, sake, shoes and evangelions. It's all right there, the makings of a perfect round table all based around the banner of derp because we vote for someone while doing the exact. same. thing.

Yes, that puts her above Steven Stone's "I'm not going to vote because of unlikely reason x".
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 09:43:20 PM
Clarification: I don't think Shoe's vote on Stone is bad and derp. Evangeline implied he thinks this is the case. The above rant all incorporates this point of view to point out why it's bad - because it doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 06, 2010, 10:03:52 PM
Pesco is my bro. Are you implying I don't know my bro well enough to figure out that you are not him?

Anyway, you ignore my question on your dodgy voting, post a whole lot of circular logic that doesn't explain anything. Why would a prod vote be better than sticking with a vote on someone you're absolutely sure of being scum?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 10:07:00 PM
When was I absolute sure that Steven Stone is scummy?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 10:07:33 PM
EBWOP: absolutely sure of him being scum, not scummy.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 06, 2010, 10:12:18 PM
Sure, I'll roll up my sleeves for a bit. I voted for Shoe in part because I wanted to see how far she'd run with this weak argument against Stone. As much as you espouse D1 as important, you sure are wasting a lot of time on Stone instead of explaining your other 'probabilities'.

Why the hell are you morons voting Stone Mason? He has at least a 75% chance of being town at this point! Seriously, it's a damn good thing Wacky brought me in. Without the power of the mathemagic lattice, you all would be lost, and lynching a likely innocent.


I'd say Mr. Stone has reached approximately 50% chance of being scum, assuming a starting chance of between 25 and 33%, as is normal for this game. Sailor Moon is probably 40ish%. Stone Mason, the good Stone, is at about a 20% chance given the early wagon. There are other percentages involved but this should give you basic idea of my probability based scumhunting.

You seem to be a bit fond of the Mason, and put SM at 40% yet never bothered to elaborate. You used a whole lot of words to say "Stone's roleclaiming is kinda scummish and bad play", and put him at a whopping 50% chance of being scum. Yet I don't see a comparable argument for having such a high confidence rating in Mason, especially when the only thing he's done so far is NotVote and get early wagoned. Unless you're already softclaiming that is, which I think we've already been over why that's a bad idea.


Ninja'd: He was talking about Miyako, that not this Stone that you guys seem to be fixated on so badly.

 
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 06, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
Fantastic Shoe. I'd be right there with you if I wasn't busy lynching the incredibly scummy Miyako. Steven Stone is now my second candidate. GJ

If he's scummy, you should be lynching him. If he's scum you should be lynching him. You sound like you wouldn't lynch him for being one of these. Your vote switch remains a pathetic veil to actual scumhunting.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 10:16:23 PM
@ ShOe: BrO, i rEaLlY CaNt sEe nO FuCkIn sCuMmY InTeNt iN StEvE'S PoSt, JuSt nUlL TeLlS AlL Up aRoUnD. HiS BlUrB AbOuT MaSoNs aCtUaLlY SeEmS MoRe lIkE An oVeRcAuTiOuS NeWbIe tO Me tHaN ScUm aTtEmPtInG To rAiLrOaD Us iNtO OuTiNg oR DiScUsSiNg rOlEs, EvEn iF It wAs uNnEsSeCaRy aS MoThErFuCk. PlUs iT Is hIgHlY UnLiKeLy hE WoUlD HaVe sUcCeEdEd eVeN If hE WaS TrYiNg tO OuT RoLeS, aSsUmInG ToWn hAs tHe fUcKiN GuMpTiOn nOt tO ClAiM Or sEt-uP SpEcUlAtE As sOoN As sOmEbOdY BrInGs uP MaSoNrY. sTiLl ThOuGh. i aM NoT VoTiNg yOu bEcAuSe yOu'rE VoTiNg sOmEbOdY FoR DeRp, I'M VoTiNg yOu bEcAuSe i fEeL LiKe yOu'rE TrYiNg tO PaInT DeRp aS ScUmMiNeSs fOr aN EaSy mIsLyNcH.

AlSo, ThE MaFiA ThEoRy wAsN'T WhAt i wAs tAlKiNg aBoUt wHeN I SaId yOu wErE FlUfFy, UnLeSs tAlKiNg aBoUt wIs aNd iNt aNd sHiT LiKe tHaT Is cOnSiDeReD "mAfIa tHeOrY".
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 10:26:08 PM
@Evangaline: Ah, so that's the issue. I reserve the right to keep towntells secret, since it makes them less useful in future games. It's not too hard to figure out with a bit of effort though.

/me thinks a bit

Hmm...actually, this towntell fluctuates enough anyway and it's hard to control. It's also not strongly reliable. So I'll grant you it. He was an early wagon and reacted to it decently. Hence the 75% of being town. Do not forget that most players have between a 66 and 75% chance of being town at the start of the game anyway, given simple probability. I'm giving him the higher end of that because of the early wagon. Be thankful the great Shoe has parted this gem of wisdom to one such as yourself.

Ah, that fluff my illiterate friend. Well, this setting is conducive to being ourselves, ne? I've tried to mostly separate out from the meat of what I'm saying. Usually a fluff paragraph is purely fluff, and then I get to the meat. I hope this pattern assists you in the future. As for the "getting an easy mislynch for derp reasons", I really don't see how that is at all happening, or how I could hope for that to happen? Honestly, you and everyone voting me is far more guilty of that than I am. Is hypocrisy a "fukken miracle" as well?

I respect your decision to disagree. Honestly, it's not impossible you're right. I've interpretted it my way, you've interpretted it yours. Neither really furthers a scum agenda. I still don't see how I'm scummy for my attacks, and do not accept your reasoning. It still reads as noob reasoning as opposed to scum reasoning. I implore you to think this through and actually analyze things, rather than derping onto my wagon because it's popular.

I suppose the crux of it is, what makes my actions more likely to be pushing for an "easy mislynch" than anyone else's thus far?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 06, 2010, 10:35:41 PM
He was an early wagon and reacted to it decently. Hence the 75% of being town.

... he reacted to it? You and I must be looking at different Stone Masons.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 10:38:58 PM
... he reacted to it? You and I must be looking at different Stone Masons.
fOr ThAt MaTtEr, WhY tHe MoThErFuCk WoUlD hE rEaCt PoOrLy To An EaRlY d1 WaGoN aNyWaY? iT wOuLd TaKe a FuCkIn MiRaClE fOr SoMeBoDy To GeT lYnChEd OvEr A rAnDoMvOtE wAgOn In ThE rVs.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 10:52:05 PM
Memory fail. I rolled a 1 on that INT check. As I said, I'm only right 95% of the time :P.

You are quite correct he has, indeed, not actually posted a reply yet. How disturbing. The early D1 wagon still implies he's more likely to be town in my eyes, but, as I said, only to the extent of reaching the higher bound for "natural" towniness. i.e. 25% chance of being scum or 75% chance of being town. For the sake of simplicity I count third parties are scum. I think the wagon on him was silly. I think the wagon on me is sillier though. I think wagons on Mr. Stone would be quite awesome right now :3c.

@Gamzee: Well, I'm sure subtlety is hardly something you understand, my illiterate friend. There would be a subtle difference between a scum and town reaction to the wagon. I mistakenly thought he had provided such a reaction when justifying my town read. Admittedly, the stronger basis for my town read is that he's an early D1 wagon, which more often land on town by sheer probability. Given the probable bounds I've outlined, this is not inconsistent.

That clear enough for you all? I'm guessing now you are going to say the fact I misremembered Stone Mason's participation is a clear sign I'm scum with cognitive dissonance, I bet? It'd be foolish to go there, since, amazingly enough, inconsistency isn't actually scummy, just irritating. I'm sure this theory will blow your minds, but it's true. Inconsistency is actually more likely to come from town. There exists scummy inconsistency, of course, but it's not a broad brush you can use. So, if you choose to use the argument outlined, please theorize for me why my misremembrance advances the cause of scum, i.e. where my scum intent would be.

In fact, while we're at it, I'd like to see an outline of where I've demonstrated scum intent and why, from everyone voting me. It'd be really helpful. I'm kinda sick of the vague accusations that actually make no sense for scum to engage in.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 11:02:58 PM
If he's scummy, you should be lynching him. If he's scum you should be lynching him. You sound like you wouldn't lynch him for being one of these. Your vote switch remains a pathetic veil to actual scumhunting.

Note that the one who has now earned my vote posted directly after I posted that. If someone else seems more curious to pursue, then it stands to reason I'll pursue that person. Day 1 begins with jokes. Then someone makes an oops. Someone will capitalise on the oops and others will agree or disagree. I happen to agree, but also aim at an alternative who I thought a worthier choice of pursuit. Why? Call it a hunch.

I see no reason why I should be putting Steven higher than Evangeline (or should've, now that she's explained herself, which I will get to in a moment), given that the D1 First Case is always built on sloppy reasons, and Scummiest Person is Scummiest Person, even if 2% scummy is Scummiest in light of 1% scummy on everyone else.

It isn't rocket science that it's easy to change people's minds Early D1 on Who Is A Good Person To Pursue.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 11:04:34 PM
Sure, I'll roll up my sleeves for a bit. I voted for Shoe in part because I wanted to see how far she'd run with this weak argument against Stone.

I'm going to put a question mark here: you say "in part"... what is the other "part" to voting Shoe?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 06, 2010, 11:09:30 PM
Saki: Eh. I guess that makes enough sense for now. ##Unvote

Shoe's whole probability deal feels like she's been caught trying to roleplay a little too hard by listing all her suspicions as probabilities. Evangeline is overselling it a little, and again it doesn't read as scummy, but rather as what the internet would call 'LOLcat'. I know, I've been stuck in the cruddy thing for who knows how long.
Explaining what Stuff was trying to say in the ninja here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402004.html#msg402004) is also offputting from the little girl.

Gamzee, Gamzee, Gamzee. You're really starting to look pretty cruddy to me now.
All the reasoning for a case on Saki followed by jumping on the easy Shoe case? Check.
i aM NoT VoTiNg yOu bEcAuSe yOu'rE VoTiNg sOmEbOdY FoR DeRp, I'M VoTiNg yOu bEcAuSe i fEeL LiKe yOu'rE TrYiNg tO PaInT DeRp aS ScUmMiNeSs fOr aN EaSy mIsLyNcH.
OK, I'm going to have to ask you where exactly there's a line here. No-one is cruddy well going to say 'I think Steven is a moron, and for that reason alone I'm going to ##Vote: Steven'. This is all in all a pretty cruddy reason to jump on a rather cruddy wagon.
And perhaps most blatantly, this post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402038.html#msg402038) has him jumping on Evangeline's point, which was already derp. So it's a player blatantly borrowing from a derp case on a derp player, which is one derp too many to just be plain derp.

##Vote: Gamzee
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Den-O on August 06, 2010, 11:11:12 PM
Alright, let me get this out of the way first off.  YOU PEOPLE ARE POSTING TOO MUCH SHIT!  I had high hopes that maybe people were starting to realize that giant walls of text and petty post-by-post bickering only leads to an easy game for scum, but I guess I must be an optimist after all.

I'll keep this concise.  Saki's sarcasm is annoying as hell but not scummy.  Steven Stone's mason comment is derp but not scummy.

Shoe's the one that raises my hackles.  That abrasiveness, that stubbornness, she's playing it up way too much to be believable.  I don't see any townie intent there, and I'm not going to believe that she's just making an ass of herself "to try and draw out scum."  Grandstanding like that is never pro-town, and I don't believe that Shoe is enough of a newbie to think it is.

##Vote: Shoe
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 11:13:45 PM
Quote
Admittedly, the stronger basis for my town read is that he's an early D1 wagon, which more often land on town by sheer probability. Given the probable bounds I've outlined, this is not inconsistent.
It iS, hOwEvEr, CoMpLeTeLy mOtHeRfUcKiN RiDiCuLoUs. HaViNg a eD1 wAgOn lAnDiNg aLl uP On sOmEbOdY ShOuLd iN No wAy mAkE ThEm lOoK AnY BeTtEr, BeCaUsE ScUm cAn hAvE Ed1 WaGoNs lAnD On tHeM ToO. yEs, ScUm aRe a mInOrItY, bUt tHaT DoEsN'T MeAn a eD1 wAgOn cAn't lAnD On tHeM. iN FaCt tHeRe aRe a lOt oF ThInGs tHaT CaN HaPpEn oN Ed1 ThAt aRe mOrE LiKeLy tO HaPpEn tO A ToWnIe tHaN ScUm sInCe tOwNiEs oUtNuMbEr sCuM, bUt iT Is cOmPlEtElY IlLoGiCaL To aCtUaLlY ThInK BeTtEr oF SoMeBoDy bEcAuSe sOmEtHiNg lIkE ThAt hApPeNeD To tHeM BeCaUsE ChAnCe iS InCrEdIbLy mOtHeRfUcKiN ShItTy lOgIc.

I AlReAdY SaId tHaT I BeLiEvE YoUr vOtE On sTeVe wAs sCuM InTeNt, BeCaUsE It cOmEs oFf tO Me tHaT YoU WeRe pAiNtInG HiS BaD PlAy aS ScUmMy pLaY In aN AtTeMpT To gEt a mIsLyNcH.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 06, 2010, 11:24:57 PM
Oh my! It's another fool! They seem to be coming out in DROVES today. So, lemme get this straight. I'm scum because...I'm supposedly a little too abrasive and stubborn? And this makes me scum how? Um...how does this further the scum's cause? You use my nice little turn of phrase regarding intent, but, um...are you really using it properly?

Let's go to mafia 101. What is townie intent? What is scummy intent? How am I not displaying one? How am I displaying the other? You're going to have to answer those to get away with voting me, you know.

As for "drawing out scum", no, actually, it appears a side effect of being me is to draw out people who can't think. It's really quite depressing to know there are five of you so utterly FOOLISH as to try to get this bare bones case off the ground on me. You have nothing. If you have something, state it. If not, shut up and scum hunt.

At this point the wagon on me is coalescing a few probabilities. We've reached the barrier where it is incredibly likely someone is scum on it. Before you claim I'm claiming that I meant to draw out scum, no, that's not the case. It was a side effect as well, it seems. My knee jerk response is our friend Sandor is the scum, seeing a healthy wagon and jumping on it for shit reasons. Evangeline and Gamzee looks kinda sucky though at this point too, for different reasons. John is pretty solid, despite his reasoning being flawed, I have no issue with him. Sailor Ditz hasn't posted enough to determine the intent of her vote, but I lean town just because it was fairly early on an uncertain wagon.

So, here's what we have. Out of Gamzee, Evangeline, and Sandor, we have scum. I know it's early D1 but now we're actually getting somewhere, I think. I'm...actually too low on information at this point to pick which one. I think once all three elaborate on their reasoning, we'll have a stronger bead. After all, if I'm so certainly scum, you all MUST have good reasoning, right? Good, solid, townie intended reasoning? Don't be shy now, out with it :3c.

Ah, ninja:

See, Gamzee, you still prove yourself illiterate. I've said SEVERAL TIMES it's a minor town tell. i.e., not major. He's not a good lynch today. Anyway, you still haven't demonstrated how I'm "painting Stone as scum for an easy mislynch". That's part of intent you know. You've asserted something that has NO backing. That's not acceptable.

Quite frankly, if anyone is going for an easy mislynch...

It's you.

Either way, one more chance. How am I painting Mr. Stone as scum illogically? How am I pushing a mislynch on him? Where does my logic fail? Where is the misrepresentation? You've provided none of these. Please come up with them or I'll be forced to assume you don't have the town's interests at heart.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 06, 2010, 11:27:43 PM
While I'm on it still...

@Stuffman: I'd still like to know how you arrived at the idea that I "was sure Steven is scum". Your initial vote on me queries why I moved my first vote to a "prod vote". This implies, to me, that you do not see how "voting with bad reasons" is worse than "jokevote is third on bandwagon". I'd like to ask why you take issue with me moving my vote from "jokevote is third on bandwagon = scum" to "voting on someone for having crappy reasons with a crappy reason = scum". You've devoted all your attention to me so far, so I think it's only fair you explain why I take priority over all else.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: DiEnd on August 06, 2010, 11:45:25 PM
Holy fuck you guys post a lot. If I had to read all these walls I'm not going to get any work done for PoSR.
QFT

I don't really see why Shoe looks so scummy, although I do think she's trying too hard to find scum and falling into MotK tradition of ultimately lynching derptown. I think someone already stated this, actually. Her play reminds me strikingly of a certain someone who tends to be transparently town *shifty eyes*

I don't agree with Shoe's vote on Stone, but I don't think she's scum either. ##Unvote

This was originally going to be the rest of my post (http://puu.sh/5Mv) except it only takes a moment to realize how incredibly stupid it is. It's logic is so circularly incriminating and ridiculous that it makes my head spin. But it's also really amusing to look back at.

The more recent turn of events leads me back to looking at Gamzee, whom I was also looking at during my last post in the game. Yeah, Gamzee has brought up lots of good points, but... at the same time, he just seems to be a late jumper onto the Shoe wagon that I've voiced my feelings on earlier in this post. He's also, IMO, exaggerating Shoe's fluffiness to make it seem bad when, really, it's pretty tame and accompanied by plenty of actual contribution.

##Vote:Gamzee

...oh dear. (http://puu.sh/5MF) Did it really take that long to make my post?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 06, 2010, 11:51:29 PM
LiKe i aLrEaDy mEnTiOnEd, I InTeRpReTeD StEvEn's mEnTiOn oF MaSoNrY As hIm sImPlY BeInG An oVeRcAuTiOuS NeWbIe, WaNtInG To bRiNg sOmEtHiNg uP WiThOuT AnYbOdY GeTtInG On hIs cAsE If a rArE PoSsIbIlItY (iE MaSoNs) CoUnTeReD It, AnD He wAs oVeRtHiNkInG As a rEsUlT. iT SeEmS LiKe yOu aRe tRyInG ToO HaRd tO PaInT ThIs aS RoLeFiShInG AnD As iF He wAs uSiNg iT To tRy tO StEeR ThE DiScUsSiOnS ToWaRdS MaSoNrY RaThEr tHaN JuSt pOiNt oUt hOw yOu aNd sToNe mAsOn hAd dEfEnDeD EaChOtHeR. tHoUgH HoNeStLy, I'D NeEd a mIrAcLe tO ClEaRlY TeLl sTeVeN'S InTeNtIoNs cOnSiDeRiNg tHaT He hAsN'T MaDe aNy pOsTs sInCe. BuT ThE WaY He wEnT AbOuT It hE MaDe iT SeEmS LiKe hE WaS UsInG PoTeNtIaL MaSoNrY To eXpLaIn wHy hE WaS NoT GoInG ThRoUgH WiTh hIs pOtEnTiAl vOtE (wHiCh iSn't aCtUaLlY ThAt mOtHeRfUcKiN GrEaT, bUt lAsT I ReCaLl tHaT'S NoT WhY YoU JuMpEd oN HiM) rAtHeR ThAn uSiNg hIs pOtEnTiAl vOtE To dRaW OuT MaSoN ClAiMs/dIsCuSsIoN.

nInjA'd By SaIlOr MoOn. It iS PrEtTy fUcKiN WeIrD ThAt sHe iS AlL FlAuNtIn' An oLd pOsT Of hErS ThAt sHe aDmItS Is bAd.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 07, 2010, 12:04:12 AM
<Good.>

The thoughts have been clarified, and I can now explore it. The first part is entirely possible. I've never said it's not. In fact, I think I stated our respective opinions on his behavior, at this point, are null tells. Now, if he was overthinking, that bugs me. Generally town can be more transparent and just play things straight. Scum would be more interested in overthinking to cover their ass. So, I'd argue that in and of itself is scummy, but we'll go on. OK.

Quote from: Gamzee
iT SeEmS LiKe yOu aRe tRyInG ToO HaRd tO PaInT ThIs aS RoLeFiShInG AnD As iF He wAs uSiNg iT To tRy tO StEeR ThE DiScUsSiOnS ToWaRdS MaSoNrY RaThEr tHaN JuSt pOiNt oUt hOw yOu aNd sToNe mAsOn hAd dEfEnDeD EaChOtHeR.

This is the crux of things. This is where we differ heavily. I don't see how it's NOT rolefishing. I also don't see how it is scummy to paint it as such. I don't see any scum intent in calling him out on rolefishing and railroading, especially when I admitted I'm amenable to an explanation, which as of yet has not been provided.

Also, going to split hairs here. The only defense going on so far is me of Stone Mason for what I perceive to be a weak town tell. That could be important in the future.

Anyway, my understanding is that you think I'm scum for calling Steven Stone out on what I perceived to be rolefishing, and trying to push his lynch. You believe it was noobish overcautiousness. What's missing here is how this is at all an "easy mislynch", or how my accusations translate to scumminess, since you've never directly discredited them, merely offered an alternate theory. There's a missing link I'd like. How does it go from "Shoe accuses Steven Stone of rolefishing and railroading with scum intent" to "Shoe is pushing an easy mislynch". Further, how does this logic work with your own admittedly dubious actions of jumping on a wagon with less than stellar reasoning? As far as I can tell, the case on me doesn't exist in the realm of logic, and is further hypocritical given your own position. Why am I not an easy mislynch whereas Steven is? What makes your case on me stronger than mine on Steven? I believe that this is part of the key to understanding your loyalties and thought process. So, let me clearly delineate my questions:

1. You are voting me because I called out Steven on rolefishing and railroading, where you have an alternate theory where he's just noob town, and thusly I am the one going for an easy mislynch?

2.  How does it go from "Shoe accuses Steven Stone of rolefishing and railroading with scum intent" to "Shoe is pushing an easy mislynch"? What is the missing link here?

3.  How does this logic work with your own admittedly dubious actions of jumping on a wagon with less than stellar reasoning?

4. Why am I not an easy mislynch whereas Steven is?

5. What makes your case on me stronger than mine on Steven?

(Most of these are ripped straight from the above paragraphs.)

All I want is a logical case, and to understand how your thoughts work. It will both help me determine if you are the opportunist, as well as help us move on from this silliness and catch scum.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kiva-la on August 07, 2010, 12:05:41 AM
I didn't sign up for this 'vacation' to read all day long.  Nor did I sign up to have to wade through this crap; Arguments about fluff are, themselves, fluff. As for the rest of what you all have to say, I'll get back to that tomorrow, when I have more time. Until then, let me give you all a helping hand:

- Stone Mason isn't any more or less likely to be scum just because a wagon was built on him, that's WIFOM.

- There is at least one scum from the Shoe train, and more than likely one from the Stone Mason train as well.

- Don't just look at what is being said--it is scum's MO to lie and deceive you into an early grave--look beyond that.

- Bad play (newb play) is a null tell, pure and simple. Anybody who tries to argue otherwise is just smokescreening, and likely scum, since seriously what could ever convince you that bad play is a tell in either direction.

There is more, but I am short on time. Until then, folks.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 07, 2010, 01:09:21 AM
MoThErFuCk, OkAy, FiRsT Of aLl, I ThInK I MaY Be uSiNg tHe tErM "eAsY MiSlYnCh" InCoRrEcTlY, oR At lEaSt mEaNiNg sOmEtHiNg eLsE WhEn i sAy iT. wHaT I'Ve bEeN MeAnInG Is tHaT I FeEl iF He's a tOwNiE, sTeVeN Is gEnErAlLy iDeAl fOr sCuM To pUrSuE Or sTaRt a wAgOn oN, sInCe hE StArTeD OfF WiTh bAd pLaY/GeNeRaL DeRpInEsS ThAt wOuLd bE ReAlLy eAsY To cOnStRuE As sCuM-MiNdEd, WhIlE It iS In rEaLiTy sImPlY BaD PlAy. It gOeS FrOm "ShOe aCcUsEs sTeVeN StOnE Of rOlEfIsHiNg aNd rAiLrOaDiNg wItH ScUm iNtEnT" tO "sHoE Is pUsHiNg aN EaSy mIsLyNcH" bEcAuSe i bElIeVe yOu aRe uSiNg tHe fIrSt tO Do tHe lAtTeR.

I DoN'T SeE HoW My rEaSoNiNg wAs wOrSe tHaN, sAy, JoHn's, CoNsIdErInG ThAt iF I'M ReAdInG HiS PoSt cOrReCtLy, My mAiN ReAsOnS FoR VoTiNg yOu aRe pReTtY SiMiLiAr. I... rEaLlY DiDn't eXpLaIn tHeM VeRy wElL At fIrSt pRoBaBlY (wHiCh iS LiKeLy tHe mAiN IsSuE HeRe, BuT UgH), BuT I FeLt i wAs aT LeAsT LeAdInG Up tO ThEm iN #38 (tHoUgH At tHe tImE I WaS ReFrAiNiNg fRoM AcCuSiNg aNyOnE SiNcE I WaNtEd tO SeE A BiT MoRe fRoM YoU AnD StEvEn).

I FeEl tHe cAsE On yOu iS StRoNgEr tHaN YoUrS On sTeVeN BeCaUsE WhAt yOu dId tHaT Is bEiNg aCcUsEd oF HaViNg sCuM InTeNt wAs aCtUaLlY DoNe, WhIlE StEvEn's rOlEfIsHiNg tHaT YoU ArE InTeRpReTiNg aS ScUmMy dOeSn't aCtUaLlY CoMpLeTeLy eXiSt. ThE CaSe oN YoU OnLy hAs oNe aLtErNaTe iNtErPrEtAtIoN, tHe cAsE On sTeVeN HaS TwO (nAmElY ThAt hE MaDe hIs pOsT WiTh sCuMmY InTeNt, AnD ThAt sAiD ScUmMy iNtEnT WaS To rOlEfIsH).
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 01:19:38 AM
Please, for the sake of humanity... can you stop your random capitalisation, Gamzee? Please?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kick Hopper on August 07, 2010, 01:21:20 AM
i could, but man, it feels all fuckin unnatural and shit. i'm pretty sure there's a program out there that all translates stuff like that into normal text, but i guess i can stop until i find it.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 07, 2010, 01:35:15 AM
INCORRECT! Your first paragraph is laughable since by all means anyone attacked for any reason is an "easy mislynch". Again, you have not adequately demonstrated how this at all differs from my situation, quite a more obvious case of being an "easy mislynch", since, as you know, I'm at L-3 for really shitty reasons. If Steven is so ideal, why has my vote been the only one on him all game it seems?

Your reasoning was worse because it wasn't all on the table, as well as the fact it sounds like you're making it up as I press you, whereas John showed his work within the first couple posts. Or maybe I just like John better :3c. Either way, fact remains that it took quite a few posts of back and forth between us to get to the crux of your "case". Why did it take so long for you to get to explaining the situation clearly? That's what bugs me about the way you've attacked. That and your position on the wagon.

And your last paragraph is laughable because it is BLATENTLY FALSE :O! You've decided suddenly that your word is LAW, and it is not. Your "interpretation" of my actions is the ONLY version of events that allows for your conclusion. I haven't DONE anything except pushed a case on someone who was scummier than the others for awhile. Your argument is INHERENTLY subjective, since it requires both me to be scum and Steven to be town, two things no one except scum would know. It's quite easy to see my early actions as trying to get the game moving and trying to find scum, cause guess what? That's what they WERE. Just as it's easy to see Steven's action as rolefishing and railroading. Or, as you interpret, overcautious noobiness. But, you know what's great about that? You even admit yourself the fact Steven was using the mason to refrain from a vote is scummy!

So, from my perspective, I see no difference. What we have here is blatant hypocrisy. Allow me to chain the events!

Shoe attacks Steven Stone for rolefishing and railroading. She quite reasonably leaves the door open for counterargument. It's early D1, it's not likely anything will stick, but pressure will lead to information.

Others attack Shoe because supposedly she's picking on a newbie, which is unfounded given the very format of this game. Gamzee jumps in uncertainly testing the waters. When the wagon appears to be taking off, he jumps on.

Gamzee provides minimal reasoning, mostly piggy backing off of the supposed "easy mislynch" logic, as well as trying to add fluff to the situation. Overstating the fluff, for that matter. He backs off this tangent when it appears to not stick. I wonder why.

After several posts of back and forth between Shoe and Gamzee, we finally get to the crux of his argument, being that Shoe is supposedly going for an easy mislynch. Gamzee has nothing to support this claim, except the idea that Steven Stone is "an ideal scum target". He has provided no evidence to support this claim, and in fact the voting records HEAVILY imply otherwise.

Gamzee further claims that Shoe "actually did what she was accused of", despite the fact that what's she's accused of is quite speculative and subjective, JUST AS THE CASE ON STEVEN STONE!

Gamzee then claims that the situations are different, demonstrating a strong case of cognitive dissonance and ignorance of the facts at the least, and scummy hypocrisy, wherein he accuses Shoe of the very thing HE HIMSELF is guilty of!

DO YOU DISPUTE ANYTHING IN THIS CHAIN OF EVENTS, GAMZEE MAKARA!!!!

/me glows with an unearthly light, appearing to prepare to cast a spell at Gamzee, firmly aware of her upper hand.

I await your response, but I also would like to interrogate Evangeline and Sandor as well, as the other two scum suspects. As I said, there's still a possibility you are unaware of your hypocrisy and were somehow quite mislead on the voting facts.

(I think I've been playing too much Umineko T_T;)


Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 07, 2010, 03:24:23 AM
Pile up the votes, get a lynch, and look at the bandwagon and vote switches afterwards.  This is the way to play D1, not by some weird and useless theorizing.  Past games have proven that very little of the info gotten out of suppsedly 'serious' D1 discussions in the previous games have actually mattered at all in later days, so why are you guys still intent on all of this sadness?  Motives come from bandwagons, not from 'serious cases'.  Also, it's not as if a random L-5 vote is the end of the world, Razeluxe.

##Unvote: Stone Mason
##Vote: Gamezee

Defending Steven Stone was uncalled for.  You could say that it was a springboard for a case against Shoe, but why encourage Saki to vote for Steven in that case?  If she did, would you have voted her too?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Skull on August 07, 2010, 03:55:21 AM
You windbags with the flapping jobbers don't make following this easy.

Response to wagon: I ain't afraid of votes, I got nothing to hide. I'm afraid of knife kills without being able to protect the shrine. Also of putting the smack down on folks who don't deserve it.

One bit of warning towards Shoe: Be agreeing with your logic, but incorrectly thinking I had a response prior makes me think you know something. You are correct however, I have a Town alignment. You seem to have a head on your shoulders, but one's always got to be wary of the smart ones.

Be looking at everyone individually if time permits. Those with lower participation, kindly do an old man a favor and interact a little. Gives me more to consider.

For now, want to pressure Gamzee. And thank you for stopping the alternating capitalization. Figured it would be one of dem ROT13 dealies.
##Gamzee Makara
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Decade on August 07, 2010, 07:53:27 AM
I-I'm very sorry that I have arrived so late.......I've brought tea for everyone!  O..Oh, Mr. MacStew, if there is anything you would like I would be happy to fetch it for you.

I am unsure of what to think of Mr. Stone.....I apologize, but he has made two posts and it is hard to tell what he's thinking from those two posts.  Right now, I agree more with the people that say he is more....what's the term?  derp?  derpy?  than he is scummy, so I don't find him worth pursuing right now....I'll keep an eye on him, but I think he would be a bad lynch at this point in time.

However, since he is difficult to read, I don't think the people that find him scummy are traitors for that reason alone.  I....I really do not understand why people are attacking Miss Shoe for this (Is Miss correct?  I-I am not not too familiar with cats).  While, if Mr. Stone is town, such a move would be easy to attack I do understand why people would think he is trecherous for it.  Miss Shoe has also seemed very interested in rooting out the traitors so that Miss Moriya's glorious name can remain on her shrine, so I do not understand why people are attacking her for this.  In fact, her wagon has grown worryingly large.....I agree that there is at least one traitor on this wagon....

Um...I believe that Mr. Clegane is most likely treacherous.  He hopped onto Miss Shoe's wagon for reasons that.....I do not understand.  How does being abrasive make one more likely to be working with Miss Yasaka?  I do not even understand why you think that she is trying to draw out the traitors with this abrasiveness.  How would acting in such a manner draw anything but irritation from everyone?  In my opinion, she has been trying to root out who the traitors are....In fact, I think she is much like Miss Ange Ushiromiya in that regard....Difficult to be around sometimes, but they both work very hard to uncover the truth.  I find this to be a complete null tell, and since this is your only reason for voting Miss Shoe it looks like a very blatant bandwagon hop.  Why aren't more people making note of this?

##Vote Sandor Clegane

I am unsure of what to think of Miss McDowell.
Quote from: Miss McDowell
I voted for Shoe in part because I wanted to see how far she'd run with this weak argument against Stone.
How does voting for Miss Shoe change whether or not she would stay on Mr. Stone?  Could you outline your entire case on Miss Shoe please?  I apologize if I am misunderstanding your words, but you make it sound like there is more to your case than that....

.....I also do not like the wagon forming on Mr. Makara.  He does not look good, but I find him unlikely to be a traitor.  The only things that are making him look bad are that he....um..."piggybacked" on Mr. McClaine's weak case and then continued to pursue the weak case.  I do not think the latter makes him treacherous since it is D1 and most cases made will be weak.  He is absolutely right that he and Mr. McClaine have near identical reasoning and yet no one is calling out Mr. McClaine for his, which is unsettling.....I do find it unlikely that either of them are traitors simply for sticking with such a weak case.  They both seem to believe in what they're saying, so I do not find them worth pursuing at this moment. 

I also find Mr. StuffMan troubling.  I understand that it is best for people to vote for the person that they think is most likely to be working against our gracious host, but....that is exactly what Miss Marimi is doing.  I thought it was quite clear that's what she was doing from this quote:
Quote from: Miss Marimi
Yes, that puts [Miss McDowell] above Steven Stone's "I'm not going to vote because of unlikely reason x".
....I do not see how any other interpretation could come from that.  I  would also like to hear Mr. StuffMan's answers to Miss Marimi's questions.  I am also very....surprised that no one else besides Miss Marimi has said anything about Mr. StuffMan.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Decade on August 07, 2010, 07:58:35 AM
EBWOP:

I hit post instead of preview before I mentioned the people on the Mr. Makara wagon that troubled me.  My apologies.  I do not like Miss Miyamura's and Mr. Mason's votes.  Mr. Mason's vote looks particularly bad because it really is just an unreasoned bandwagon hop.  I do not understand Miss Miyamura's reasoning either.  Why is it wrong to defend someone you think is town?  Am I scum for defending Miss Shoe and Mr. Makara?  Why is Mr. Makara worse than Mr. McClaine in this regard?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 07, 2010, 08:23:30 AM
The reason I've always heard is that you can't defend someone else cause there's no way of knowing which side they're on.  Personally, I think that's shit.  Bad calls are bad calls, and you don't need to know jack all about the person the call's made on in order to know what's being said about 'em is bunk.  Not to say that sometimes this ain't a terrorist out to help his buddy, but that just means the bastards are tricky, and you need to read carefully when something like that happens in order to see if they're attacking the call, which is what you should be doing if you're serious about hunting terrorists, or if they're defending the target, which is a classic terrorist ploy.

Also, glad to see Gamgee's speaking proper English now.  Swear that stuff was giving me a headache.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 07, 2010, 10:24:44 AM
The reason why I can't stand someone defending another person is because you have no idea whether that person is scum or town, especially on D1,  This is especially so when Stone has not put anything of note so far and when there is only one vote of him; there is no danger of him being lynched yet anyway.  Defending him when he's close to being lynched and when he has a substantial amount of townie credit (voting scum in past days, etc.), that's fine.  When he is not in anyway close to being lynched, and when he has had little to his name?  No.

If there are standing accusations against a person, then why don't you let that person himself answer to them and make the cases, even if you personally disagree with these accusations?  His personal reaction will tell you much more about his alignment than what you could even find out by defending him; if you think he's really town.   

 "Reading deeply" into the words of both the target and the accuser as a third-person gives far more perspective than your defense of defending anyway, McClane, especially when the person is nowhere near being lynched. 

---

@Shannon: As for you defending Shoe and Makara, yes, that is scummy.  So is McClane's.  If either of you had more votes I would have voted either of you, but since Gamzee for the moment is so polarized towards Shoe (and had more votes on him), I wouldn't mind having concurrent bandwagons between both of them.  I feel that this is the best way to make use of Day One, for the moment.  It's always good for post-D1 bandwagon analysis.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 07, 2010, 10:37:13 AM
One little request to start. From now on, can people refer to Steven Stone as just Steven, and Stone Mason as just Mason? My head is starting to throb trying to figure out who's who here.

Shannon, from my interpretation Stuff was trying to take Saki's words completely literally. I wouldn't call that scummy - it's too blatant to be scummy, it's just plain derp.

I haven't seen anything to convince me away from my Gamzee vote for now. Mason and Miyamura's votes are pretty crud, aye, and of the two Mason's is undoubtedly worse, but it's hard for me to believe they're both scum doing the exact same thing. And I only count 4 votes on Gamzee right now, which is hardly a landslide.

Of all the lurkers, I'm willing to agree with Shannon that Sandor's SHUT UP ##VOTE: SHOE FOR BEING A JERK is the worst of the lot so far. We haven't heard a thing from Satoshi, though, so that's something to keep in mind.

So I'm probably at something like Gamzee > Sandor > Mason right now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 07, 2010, 12:06:02 PM
I'm going to put a question mark here: you say "in part"... what is the other "part" to voting Shoe?

I am unsure of what to think of Miss McDowell. How does voting for Miss Shoe change whether or not she would stay on Mr. Stone?  Could you outline your entire case on Miss Shoe please?  I apologize if I am misunderstanding your words, but you make it sound like there is more to your case than that....

The other part was that I felt like it. Though, i'm not inclined to change my vote at this juncture, in part because the new current bandwagon and the way it was formed don't look very appealing. I do not like Miyako or the Mason's bandwagoning very much either Shannon, but especially not Miyako's addition. Where is this encouragement you mentioned Gamzee gave Saki in the first place? I assume you're referring to this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401951.html#msg401951), but all I see is criticism of Saki for saying that she'd support Shoe if not for being so sure about her first vote, and then throwing a prod vote towards me on the very next line.

And the other part this time? I still don't like you, Shoe. Your 'scumhunting' has consisted of batting around a weak case on Stone Steven into the ground, then turning your guns full force on the first person to comment on it and not abandon their stance at the first sign of pressure. You say that "It's quite easy to see my early actions as trying to get the game moving and trying to find scum, cause guess what? That's what they WERE." I agree that you were trying to get the game moving, but i'm not so sure it was because you were trying to find scum.

Also, where's your vote on Gamzee anyway? Does the idea of being third on this bandwagon worry you if he flips town? You said it yourself how important D1 analysis is, and I feel this might be some caution on your part. Especially since it seems you've all but abandoned your case against Steven except as a reason to attack Gamzee.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 07, 2010, 01:51:51 PM
Oh, hi foolish Evangeline. You seem to have completely changed your case on me to something even more ridiculous. May I first ask what happened to your prior allegations? Or are you trying to evade the question by making stuff up? I do indeed wonder. What's REALLY interesting is how utterly INACCURATE your current allegations are. Why, only a fool could dream up something so outlandish.

However, I am not an unreasonable kitty. I want you to prove me wrong. Link me to EVERY allegation you level against me, rather, to every point where I've committed it. It's highly doubtful you even CAN, given your propensity towards bullshit, to use a vulgar term, but on the off chance you come up with something, I'd very much like to fire a few magic missiles at it and reveal it's inaccuracy explicitly.

As for voting Gamzee, I haven't done it yet since you and Sandor BOTH need to reply before I can properly assess your probabilities of being scummy. There are several responses possible and it would be QUITE remiss of me to dismiss any possibilities at this juncture. And plus, I STILL haven't gotten a response from Steven, and I STILL haven't gotten a response from Gamzee. So, what we have is four people who haven't responded, and you're asking me why I haven't jumped on Gamzee yet? You really seem interested in painting me as scum no matter what, no matter what evidence occurs, and no matter what proof of towniness I provide.

I can't be sure if you're just stupidly close minded or very foolish scum, given how suspicious you make yourself look.

Yes, there's a lot more posted, and I'm not sure I like all of it, but I'd prefer to address these things AFTER these hanging threads have been resolved. Because within these hanging threads, a scum exists, and that scum will make themselves obvious under the dancing lights of my inquisition!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 07, 2010, 01:59:48 PM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (4): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Shannon
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Shoe and Gamzee are at L-4. About 15 1/2 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 07, 2010, 03:18:06 PM
@Macdowell

Quote
HoW SaKi kEePs sAyInG ShE DoEsN'T LiKe sTeVe wHiLe aVoIdInG GeTtInG A FuCkIn vOtE On hIm aLl uP In hErE Is rUbBiNg mE ThE WrOnG WaY. mAn i cAn sEe iF ShE ThInGs eVaNgElInE Is wOrSe oR SoMe sHiT, bUt wHeN ShE OrIgInAlLy cAlLeD HiM OuT It sEeMeD LiKe sHe wAs jUgGlInG TwO PoTeNtIaL VoTiNg tArGeTs yEt cHoOsInG ThE OnE ShE CoUlD FoCuS On tO MoCk fPmH. iN fAcT iT eVeN sEeMs LiKe ShE's FoCuSiNg MoRe On StEvE, whHaT ThE MoThErFuCk iS Up wItH ThAt? It's wEiRd hOw sHe's dWeLlInG On sTeVe mOrE ThAn tHe pErSoN WhO ShE CuRrEnTlY HaS A VoTe oN.

The only reason why you would lynch Steven is because of blatantly bad play (which Saki has given the reasons for), and Gamzee is saying that Saki should have voted for Steven because'his vote on you was "rubbing off the wrong way."  Yet, Gamzee votes Shoe for sprouting 'fluff' and 'for thinking that 'bad play=scum", the latter of which Saki has done too.  The above paragraph feels sort of useless, and he seems sort of unsure as to what to stand on and inconsistent, almost as if he wanted to defend Steven.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 07, 2010, 05:02:22 PM
@Saki:

Let's start from the beginning of your posts.
##VOTE: Miyako Miyamura

Third on the bandwagon is always scum. Always. FPMH

That was your first vote and one that you claim as serious because you said the following:

Fantastic Shoe. I'd be right there with you if I wasn't busy lynching the incredibly scummy Miyako. Steven Stone is now my second candidate. GJ
In case people haven't noticed HEY IT'S THE START OF DAY 1, SHITTY REASONS TO VOTE PEOPLE ARE GOOD REASONS BY THIS POINT BECAUSE IT BEATS VOTING RANDOMLY.

This isn't about any sarcasm that may or may not have been implied. You made a claim, so take responsibility for it. Specifically that you said it was not a jokevote at all.

What are you going on about Gamzee? I'm not putting down jokevotes, I explained my reason. FPMH, best reason ever. Also, third on the wagon is always scum. Always. It's not a jokevote, it's a serious vote. Not like there was any better stuff to vote at the time. I think I have better stuff right now in my ninja though.

---------------------------

Put a vote down or go down the gallows, I say, and I'd dedicate myself to the cause if I wasn't so sure that third on the wagon is always scum.

The latter half of the quote shows you're quite set on third-on-the-wagon-is-scum. Your certainty of it has been stated clearly.

Not happy with Evangeline either. Quoting Shoe and voting him for the exact same reason he votes Stone (Ha ha, old chap! BAD LOGIC) doesn't make a compelling case. Start putting in the elbow grease, woman.

##UNVOTE: Miyako
##VOTE: Evangeline


Well, at least until you can explain what about his reasoning is so bad that he must be voted, as clearly his case and your case are similar: voting people for bad reasoning. This is terrible reasoning, just a step down from bad reasoning.

So again, why would you get off your first target to park a prod vote when said first target had not posted anything to sway opinion? You voted Evangeline and then go ahead to push Steven. The way you unvote indicates that you were quite aware of who you were targeting. The vote has no pressure in the form of accusations. There's no followup pressing on her either.

Summary of what's wrong about Saki:
Claims a serious vote and tries to shake off responsibility of it.
Changes that vote for a weaker one.
No analysis to contribute as scumhunting, read her posts in isolation and it will be apparent.


Shoe's the one that raises my hackles.  That abrasiveness, that stubbornness, she's playing it up way too much to be believable.  I don't see any townie intent there, and I'm not going to believe that she's just making an ass of herself "to try and draw out scum."  Grandstanding like that is never pro-town, and I don't believe that Shoe is enough of a newbie to think it is.

##Vote: Shoe

Let's get this out the way first. Whoever's playing Shoe, it's blindingly obvious and frankly you should clearly also know better than to vote just because you don't like her playstyle.

For now, want to pressure Gamzee. And thank you for stopping the alternating capitalization. Figured it would be one of dem ROT13 dealies.
##Gamzee Makara

That's nice and all, but can we see some real reasons for jumping on the emergent wagon?

@Razeluxe: Did you post yet? This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402139.html#msg402139) is not a post. That's just to avoid an inactivity prod.

Of all the lurkers, I'm willing to agree with Shannon that Sandor's SHUT UP ##VOTE: SHOE FOR BEING A JERK is the worst of the lot so far. We haven't heard a thing from Satoshi, though, so that's something to keep in mind.

I have trouble believing that the underlined was unintentional. What are you doing trying to hide a vote in that? The only reason it didn't show in the count was because you didn't unvote.

I'll get to other people that require effort to decipher their posts later.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 05:24:47 PM
@StuffMan: My first vote was serious business and I can't remember purporting it to be otherwise. If nothing would've happened I'd've started lobbying for people to join me in training on Miyako for being the third on a bandwagon. Show me where I claimed it was a jokevote.

Like I said, it isn't rocket science that people change their minds. OK, I changed mind in mid-post. I didn't completely edit out all traces of this change-of-mind.

Maybe it'll get through to you this way:
Quote
Summary of what's wrong about Saki:
Claims a serious vote and tries to shake off responsibility of it.
Changes that vote for a weaker one.
No analysis to contribute as scumhunting, read her posts in isolation and it will be apparent.

- The vote was serious and I never claimed it to be otherwise. I may have been sarcastic about the FPMH, but I am completely and utterly serious when I say my vote was serious as can be. When someone jokevotes that jokevote, out of all eligible targets lands on someone who ALREADY HAS TWO JOKEVOTES, that's reason enough to put down a serious vote.
- Evangeline hopped on Shoe because of "senseless drivel". I think "putting a serious vote down without explanation" is worse than "putting a jokevote down on someone who already has two jokevotes on him". Again, this isn't rocket science. If you think that Miyako was a worthier target to keep pursuing, by all means, no one's stopping you. I just think staying on Miyako would be weaker because it sure pales to Evangeline's (and Steven's) mishaps. I wanted Evangeline to explain why she voted Shoe. She recognised this intent. Why can't you?
- Guilty as charged, I've been too busy waiting for Evangeline and seeing the Shoe crap go down without understanding why everyone takes so much issue with it.

You still haven't replied to my question: How did you arrive at the conclusion that I was sure Steven was scum?[/u][/i]

Your devotion to me feels misguided, especially as you show with Roddy's citation and misunderstanding it.

Reply to Eva in next post.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 05:33:24 PM
The other part was that I felt like it.

So if I understand this right, you voted Shoe because you felt like it, and because you think/thought it would affect whether Shoe'd stay on Stone or not. Forgive me if I find those reasons to be really, really, really bad.

What's worse, you're now telling Shoe to vote Gamgee? What's with all these people telling others how to vote? Why would you pressure Shoe on his absent vote on Gamgee?

Vote stays. I'm not happy with that attitude.

Sandor with his one-post miracle of jumping on Shoe is still there, of course. But other people are on him so I'm content to leave him be unless he doesn't respond timely. Because so far he's pulling off the lurk and not many seem to recognise this/give it due attention.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 07, 2010, 05:51:03 PM
I never had the conclusion of you calling Steven anything. I've only ever talked about your serious vote on Miyako, any talk of people being scummy or scum was about your stance on Miyako.

Your vote only appears stronger now that Evangeline has gone and posted badly. At the time of your switch, it was a prod vote. What part of 'Start putting in the elbow grease, woman' and 'Well, at least until you can explain...' can anyone regard as an accusation of scumminess? There is none and that's why your vote was weak.

My quote from Roddy is not a misunderstanding. Why would he put Sandor's action in the full and proper notation for voting when he can just say the same without the notation?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: DiEnd on August 07, 2010, 05:59:36 PM
Quote
What's worse, you're now telling Shoe to vote Gamgee? What's with all these people telling others how to vote? Why would you pressure Shoe on his absent vote on Gamgee?
I think this is a completely valid thing to do, actually. Shoe is quite aggressively pursuing Gamzee, has many great points that more then justify a vote on him, yet... holds to a rather weak case on Steven? On that note, though, I'd really like Steven to come back and participate. He posted in RVS twice and disappeared; he hasn't even voted yet. This makes Shoe keeping the vote on a little less bad, I admit.

Saki's opinion on Sandor pretty much covers it. He comes in mid-day, does a jump onto the easy wagon because "She's being too irritating for her to be town", and disappears. He also didn't comment on absolutely anything else so far, and I'm not sure if him having only one post makes that less or more bad. I wouldn't mind switching my vote to him if it looks like I can't get a Gamzee lynch today.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 06:09:29 PM
Quote
What are you doing trying to hide a vote in that?

You're accusing him of trying to hide a vote. That seems like overreacting when he was just paraphrasing Sandor. I agree the full vote copy wasn't really necessary but I hardly see it as a sneaky hidden vote.

And I must've misunderstood. So you mean Miyako. I wasn't aware people thought "third on the bandwagon = scum" was to be applied in the full literal sense of the word, that voting third on any bandwagon is an immediate sign of scummitude that makes all else pale? Uh, if you honestly think I thought that, then sorry? That's all I can say.

As far as Evangeline, I have kept repeating I thought her apparent logic for voting was awful. Then afterwards, she reveals it is awful, not just apparently so. Sure, I could've jumped on Steven, or kept on Miyako. To what end? Steven had/has Shoe to answer to. And what was Miyako to say? "Oops"? "It was just a jokevote"? No, no matter how you wiggle, voting Evangeline was the better course of action at the time.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 07, 2010, 06:32:58 PM
OK, here's the thing, I thought I had a lot more time to make this work, but I don't. I probably shouldn't reveal this so early but the ruse was a distraction regarding Gamzee. I was expecting some interesting reactions from Evangeline and Sandor, and I got neither. FURTHER, I was hoping to get a reaction from Gamzee, but that didn't pan out either. I honestly could care less about Steven at this point, except for the fact he's apparently gone as well. The trouble is, a lot of people have acted in a way most would perceive as subjectively scummy at this time. Rather, a lot involved.

As mentioned several times, Sandor's disappearing act is REALLY terribad, given he just hopped on a popular wagon. Honestly, I think he even held the swing vote position for a little bit, which at the very least increases his probability of being scum on the sheer basis of I know I'm town. I can't really argue that since that's information you all don't have for sure. Further I'm not sure how far along the Gamzee wasgon was at the time, so it might not be a swing vote tell, so much as pushing a bad wagon for bad reasons, which is still pretty scummy.

Evangeline has established she doesn't really care so much about scumhunting so much as lynching Shoe, which is of course also scummy. I'd say marginally less scummy than Sandor because she's at least sticking to it rather than hiding. And, I'll admit, I'm sometimes hard to deal with, though can you blame me when I have such an utterly moronic wagon on me?
(Note: Roleplay fluff, if you don't feel like reading don't bother) I mean, seriously, I was dragged into this game, and fully expected fellow participants in the game to actually try to play, but apparently you silly humans and your ridiculously overcomplex emotions got in the way of clear thought. How plebian. (End flavor)

And of course, I've said my piece on Gamzee. I'll also say at this point I have a bad feeling he's just stupid town, despite that ridiculous box I stuffed him in. The only reason I went so overdramatic is because I was expecting one of Evangaline or Sandor to react scummily, but neither of them even touched it (Sandor not even posting). We don't have a lot of time, but at this point I prefer a Sandor lynch, but will easily support a Gamzee lynch, since it would be foolish to completely ignore everything I dug up in favor of a gut feeling.

##Unvote, ##Vote Sandor

tl;dr: His vote and disappearance thereafter are scummy, especially given his position on the wagon. It reads as scum who found a highly probable mislynch (I'm really sorry I have to use that case given how subjective and ineffective I've proven it already, at least in some cases), and justified it for shitty reasons because there weren't any real ones, and expects to get away with it because obviously scum wouldn't be so silly as to go for a mislynch on playstyle disputes.

Now, non Evangaline/Sandor stuff. Stone lost a few townie points with the insubstantial jump on Gamzee's wagon. Why just "pressure?" What were your reasons for voting? Those that agree with me are NOT exempt from thinking! Also, regarding the Sandor swing vote thing, it wasn't. The Gamzee wagon was at one vote at the time, however, Sandor's reasoning still blows for the fifth vote.

It would be appreciated if Razeluxe elaborated on who he believes to be the scum on my wagon. At least three of them are VERY caseable. His choice will be enlightening.

I had a gut negative read on Shannon's post, but it's gone away now that I reread it. Stuff Man doesn't bug me, but I don't see any issues with your logic. And yes, Miss is correct, though it doesn't really matter that much.

Now, John McLane, I find it QUITE interesting you've ignored my MULTIPLE pleas to clarify the case on me, yet are still voting me. At first I thought you were sincere, but I can't be so certain of that it seems. In fact, your entire post is a waste of space, accomplishing nothing except making it look like you are here. Could you catch up with the rest of us, please, and answer the questions asked of you? I'd REALLY appreciate it. I mean, I'd hate to have to use Charm Person so early in the game.

Miyako's post kinda makes sense, but I think defenses can get decent reactions. After all, you can't cast a good spell without a few risks. And divination is a school of magic. Generally I'd consider a defense good for getting the reaction of the person receiving it and determining how they take it. Granted, with Stone at one vote, I quite agree Gamzee's defense is way off. The second paragraph is accurate, so I should clarify what I mean by defense, and that's being reporting a town read on a person. Whether you support that town read is up to you, but using some support is helpful. Attacking someone's attacker isn't generally a good idea unless their case genuinely comes with scum intent. And, finally, Miyako is right about bandwagon analysis. That's another reason I didn't vote Gamzee. I wanted to see who'd take the swing vote, but no one did.

That should cover everything I ignored, I do apologize for being so long winded, but sometimes it can't be helped if one wants to communicate! Especially someone on such a level as I am. It's hard to compress my thoughts into words I'd expect others to understand, given my massive intellect, but I'm trying my best! Hopefully this elucidates anything you all were worried about :3c.



Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 07, 2010, 08:24:25 PM
Wait, so that hugely aggressive case was just a ruse to get reactions out of Gamzee, Sandor, and I? And despite all that you've been saying, you suddenly go "Eh, I have a bad feeling he's actually town now, but if you guys are dead set on voting him then i'll vote him too. Let me hop on Sandor since the general consensus is that he's scummy." Yeah, that stinks. You still haven't actually voted, you just said that "I'll vote for whichever one of the two has the bigger bandwagon when it comes down to the wire". And here, i'll quote you again:

Now, you know what the most reliable gauge of someone's D1 opinions are? Their vote. Holding back your vote is VERY scummy as it's hiding information about your intent.

Sandor feels scummy but you feel scummier, thus i'm sticking my vote on you. I see where people are coming from in regards to Gamzee, but I feel like those are null tells coming from his reaction to overly aggressive action towards him. It just amazes me that you would make such a big case on Gamzee and then switch to Sandor.

@Saki:

So if I understand this right, you voted Shoe because you felt like it, and because you think/thought it would affect whether Shoe'd stay on Stone or not. Forgive me if I find those reasons to be really, really, really bad.

You said it yourself: bad reasons are better than RVS. Actually, immediately after the post where I voted (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401926.html#msg401926). :derp:

Quote
What's worse, you're now telling Shoe to vote Gamgee? What's with all these people telling others how to vote? Why would you pressure Shoe on his absent vote on Gamgee?

What the Moon Brat said. You spend multiple posts attacking a player, and I assume it's going to end with a vote. I'm not telling her how to vote, i'm waiting for Shoe gives me a good reason why she has this sudden town inclination towards Gamzee and prefers to temp-shift to Sandor instead of sticking to the case she just made.

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 07, 2010, 08:54:44 PM
My quote from Roddy is not a misunderstanding. Why would he put Sandor's action in the full and proper notation for voting when he can just say the same without the notation?
Because I like my aesthetics?

Alright, now Stuff is just trying way way too hard for this. Laddie, let me ask you one question here - I've been saying all this time that I haven't wanted to vote Shoe. Why would I want to hide a vote for her in plain sight rather than, you know, giving reasoning? I'd hardly be able to defend myself when the vote is right cruddin' there in the count. The attack doesn't make any sense.

Likewise, asking someone to stay consistent with their first post of the game, literally the first serious vote of the game, is just bleedin' nonsense. I'd like you to clarify why you spend so long looking for mistakes in semantics and misinterpretable statements rather than actual scummy posts.

As for Shoe...oh, what in the name of crud?
I probably shouldn't reveal this so early but the ruse was a distraction regarding Gamzee.
the gamzee ruse was a............distaction
It annoys me, but there's one weird piece of continuity - she insists that voting's what matters, and proceeds to not vote for Gamzee as part of the ruse. I'm willing to give her a derptown clear for now, but following a Gamzee lynch I REALLY want to take a closer look at her.

I'm not against a Sandor lynch at all, and I definitely wouldn't want to have anyone other than Sandor/Gamzee lynched at this late juncture, but Gamzee's convenient disappearance for the second half of the day hasn't made him look any better in my book.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 07, 2010, 09:59:03 PM
Alright, Shoe.  Didn't talk about you much last night because your posts give me headaches.  But hey, I appreciate you keeping me in mind.  After all, it's not like I haven't said my piece for you to read, or, have you been overthinking what I've been saying, and not actually reading what I said?  Just like your stuff is way too hard for me to wrap my simple grunt head around.

Now, I've got some specific beefs with you, but I think I'll start with that lovely list you tossed at Gamgee since it'll do for what I had to say about you as well.

1. You are voting me because I called out Steven on rolefishing and railroading, where you have an alternate theory where he's just noob town, and thusly I am the one going for an easy mislynch?

Rookie, or possibly not as charismatic, they both lead to the same end.  And I wouldn't call it easyl.  Get a man looking so bad that the folks you dupe into joining you agree that it couldn't have been a terrorist mislead because they all saw how guilty the dead guy looked.  That's some impressive work, if you can pull it off.


2.  How does it go from "Shoe accuses Steven Stone of rolefishing and railroading with scum intent" to "Shoe is pushing an easy mislynch"? What is the missing link here?

Perspective.  Depending on what you are, the first is either what you believe, or what you're aiming for us to believe.  And the other is what it looks like to other people.


3.  How does this logic work with your own admittedly dubious actions of jumping on a wagon with less than stellar reasoning?

Skipping this one as I didn't wagon hop, and my reasoning isn't dubious.


4. Why am I not an easy mislynch whereas Steven is?

You very clearly know what you're doing, you press hard when you talk, and you talk a lot.


5. What makes your case on me stronger than mine on Steven?

A lot of what you had on Steve was interpreting what he said, leading his answer, and then interpreting that in a way that'd lead him further off course.

As for the rest, it's a lot of small things.  You spend a lot of words insulting and attacking the credibility of the people who question you instead of what they actually say.  You keep on using "But I know I'm not a terrorist" like it means a damn thing.  You spend a hell of a lot of time talking about game theory, expecting that to justify your actions.  And there's definately been times where the theory has been nothing more than fluff used to deflect an attack without actually saying a damn thing.

Now, I've gotta buck the trend.  I've read that Sandor guy's post, and I gotta say.  I'm not seeing where everyone's coming from on him.  Part of it may be that he's thinking same way I am, but he's out hard, and saying stuff that can be tied to him.  And, he's already been proven right about one of his observations on Shoe.  That she'd be using a blind to try and provoke reactions.  Call me crazy, but I can't see him being a terrorist.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 07, 2010, 10:22:48 PM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (0): Shoe
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (4): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (2): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Shoe and Gamzee are at L-4. About 7 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Faiz on August 07, 2010, 10:36:36 PM
Taking some time to think about my remarks, I admit that they have been naive (and a bit careless). I apologize for my behavior and any sort of inconvenience it may have caused, and I suppose I should also apologize for my sudden disappearance. I don't expect this to have a great impression on anybody (in fact, it may serve to further implicate me), but I can at least try it.

At that point I had never believed that delaying my vote was a suspicious act, so I suppose I should try and make amends.

##Vote: Shoe

Firstly, I apologize in advance for any sort of stupidity or ignorance that you may find.

I first had my suspicions prior to my "derpy" remark, and I still have my doubts. You seem to have gone out of your way to accuse someone who directly opposed you (although both parts were done facetiously). However, you reacted rather strongly to a simple act of naiveness followed by a lack of voting (I'm obviously referring to myself, here). Assuming that you are scum, that means that I could be a (very minor) threat, while if I assume you're town, you probably have an intense hatred for stupidity, though I fail to see the benefit of voting because of stupidity. Of course, I did refuse to vote at the time, so I can see why you decided to vote me, although the reasoning is a bit weak.

In any case, you act very outspoken and stubborn, which makes it seem painstakingly obvious that you're scum, which means that you're intentionally trying to appear as scum, assuming that you know this behavior makes you suspicious. Declaring your own innocence isn't too helpful either. I can't see any reason why anyone would attempt to look like scum without some sort of malicious intent behind it, other than the case brought up earlier about trying to draw out actual scum with this behavior. I realize that I am restating Mr. Clegane's words, but his words do make some sense in this situation.

I hope there was enough stupidity in this explanation for you.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 07, 2010, 10:47:26 PM
For a swing vote, Steven's post here stands up about as well as an Englishman after a pint of whiskey.

Why did you never bother to mention these suspicions you apparently had of Shoe before your mason comment? Did this tiny fear of Shoe being a Mason somehow paralyze you from commenting?
And as he himself admits, most of his reasoning's just regurgitated from Sandor, who a lot of people think was spewing nonsense anyway. Once again, I'm just seeing it as Shoe's player trying too hard to RP as a jerk, especially given that she's continuing it after being called out on it.

If people are using this sort of cruddy reasoning to jump on the Shoe wagon, I'm more than happy to stay on Gamzee.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 07, 2010, 10:51:04 PM
Since you showed up, then perhaps you could give us something else.  Who would be the next two people you would vote for, and why?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 11:00:07 PM
Backtracking a bit here, Steven...

Before your derpy remark, Shoe was engaged in the roleplay. He made a comment about people's train on Stone Mason, and then voted Sailor Moon. You, uh, had suspicion of scummitude at this stage? Then why didn't you vote him or voice these suspicions?

Your scenario of why he could be town or scum is weird at best. If Shoe is Town and hates stupidity, OK, there's a case to make for that. (see: ALL the remarks over how stupid everyone is) But if he's scum, what... what manner of threat could you possibly be from making one idle conjecture that there may be masons and that that's a good reason not to vote during RVS? I don't see why you bring up those two scenarios as Shoe jumping on you isn't really a decisive tell, unless you argue he was trying to go for the easy lynch. (in which case it horribly backfired)

How is being outspoken and stubborn "painstakingly obvious that [he] is scum"? That's a web of WIFOM you're having there. "You act so scummy it must be scum intentionally acting scummy so we'd fall for 'too scummy it can't be scum'"? I'd subscribe to "It's so scummy, he must be scum", but not to "Your overtly scum behaviour is obviously scum masquerading as obvScum". How is Shoe "painstakingly obvious[ly]" scum?


@Evangeline: I suppose you have a sort of point, but I'm still not too happy with your explanation coming THIS late into the day, and your new reasoning for voting Shoe still not being stellar. This may just be because of playstyle differences where I think Shoe's siege on Steven Stone wasn't that awful, and that his current attack on his own attackers is permissable given the entire attack on him is just nonsensical.

##UNVOTE: Evangeline

Keeping my eye on you, though.

##VOTE: Steven Stone

If that isn't Blatant Bandwagon Hopping at its finest I don't know what's what anymore. I thought Sandor was already "Wait, what?", but Steven here tries too hard.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 11:08:25 PM
Because I'm not on-board for more of this... to iterate, I'm jumping off of Evangeline because I think Steven's a better choice at this stage. Evangeline... I can sort of understand what she means but then I don't agree with it. Willing to let it slide for now, D1, if she's scum she'll slip up later and give me reason to re-occupy her +1 Vote parking spot.

Steven just, no. I outlined him above.

Sandor is still all sorts of URGH as well, and it's either of those two by now. I just kept him back in my head at first because of Evangeline taking priority but reading back to his posts (lol), he bandwagon hops because "town would never attract such a huge profile"... right, because scum does want a lot of attention. WIFOM. Don't like it.

I wish I had two votes. I'd be voting both of them so hard, but I have to pick and Sandor already has people on him by now and Steven just takes the top by posting more WIFOM as reasoning.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 07, 2010, 11:19:22 PM
Figured I'd catch flak for that. But you know what? I really don't care. The people who are protesting hardest are the people who also haven't an ounce of common sense, and have chosen to choose the wrong bandwagon. Even more hilarious is the involved OMGUS dearest Steven makes. I understand others are protesting but they actually see the logic, which certain people have blinded themselves to in a bid to get my head.

I'll put this out there now.

You're not lynching me today. You all might want to dumbass your way to getting me to L-whatthefuckever, but you WILL not secure my lynch. We have 6 hours to kill one of you fools, since it's manifestly obvious my wagon REEKS of scum at this point. I'm willing to call it two at this point. Honestly, I don't like the attempts to form strange counterwagons at this point. Sandor, sure, I'll accept that, we still had about 1/4th of the day left and he stinks. But all the vote hopping that isn't me, Gamzee, or Sandor stinks at this point. There are a lot of scum but day is coming to a close and we need a decision. I'm likely to switch to Gamzee if the Sandor wagon doesn't pick up. I don't think it'll end as well but I did hammer quite a few stakes into him, so I'll roll with it.

I should be able to make a final vote before the end of the day.

Either way, in the vein of the last paragraph, why are you voting off-wagon Saki? Even the Sandor wagon is stronger than the Steven wagon at this point.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Faiz on August 07, 2010, 11:23:53 PM
Unfortunately, I wasn't aware that it wasn't a good thing to wait to post my suspicions or make a vote. I wanted to have a better understanding of what Shoe was doing before a clear accusation. Of course, my reasoning isn't too good either, but there's not a lot of time left and apparently it's fine to use "stupid reasons" as a basis for voting.

At Mr. McClane: Assuming you're asking me who I would vote for if I didn't vote for Shoe right now, I would have to say that Mr. Makara and Ms. Marimi are slightly suspicious, although I don't believe that both of them could be scum?only one of the two, at most. It's hard to say which one of the two is more likely to be scum, though.

Edit: Looks like I'll have to respond to Ms. Marimi here, too. First of all, I wasn't saying that Shoe was obviously scum, but that the behavior implies that she could be scum. I was assuming that Shoe knew this, which means she was intentionally acting this way, and I don't see how town can benefit from that.

Besides the facetious vote towards Sailor Moon, the only vote Shoe made was towards me, because I was being stupid and playing badly. Considering Shoe made remarks about how nearly everyone here was stupid, there would be no reason to single me out and vote based on it alone. Although I will admit that the threat comment was excessively stupid, and doesn't exactly hold water.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: W on August 07, 2010, 11:32:56 PM
@Saki: Why did you answer for Roddy's failvote? What business do you have in defending his action? Especially now that he's gone and parroted your response, I still don't believe it was something that can just be brushed off as roleplaying or the so called aesthetics.

And I must've misunderstood. So you mean Miyako. I wasn't aware people thought "third on the bandwagon = scum" was to be applied in the full literal sense of the word, that voting third on any bandwagon is an immediate sign of scummitude that makes all else pale? Uh, if you honestly think I thought that, then sorry? That's all I can say.

Nice backtrack. You called it a serious vote and stood by it, now it's not something you're willing to retain as a reason for making a serious vote.

@Roddy: You haven't been saying that you weren't going to vote Shoe at all. She's not in your top 3, but you haven't called her anything of the townie sort either. Basically she's sitting in the bad half as far as I can see from your few posts.

Likewise, asking someone to stay consistent with their first post of the game, literally the first serious vote of the game, is just bleedin' nonsense. I'd like you to clarify why you spend so long looking for mistakes in semantics and misinterpretable statements rather than actual scummy posts.

Saki's handling of things has been scummy that's why I'm voting her. You taking up the chainsaw doesn't help.

Goddamnit you people and your post cutting. I'm a slow reader.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 07, 2010, 11:36:21 PM
Finally had the time to give a good hard look over to people besides Shoe, and there's some quality stuff there.

Raze, why are you so sure there's scum on the Mason/Shoe trains?

Mason's seems odd since it was just three random votes at the start.
Shoe, on the other hand, the likeliest implication is that he's town.   Is that what you meant?  If not, why are you so sure there's scum on his train?


Stone Mason also looks way worse than Sandor.  At least Sandor came out and gave opinions about people, Mason, on the other hand, says some fluff on his random train, says silent people should talk more, and puts a vote on Gamzee to pressure her.  Why?  No damned clue.  He sure as hell didn't say why.  The closest he comes to an opinion is when he says he agrees with Shoe's logic, then tears into Shoe for a bit.

Steve, I won't touch since he looks bad, but hell if I can piece together what he is.  Maybe after he talks a bit more.

Miyako also worries me.  The two big things are her getting on Gamzee's case for defending someone, and also trying to pressure someone to vote for the person she's defending.  Seems pretty either or here.  Either she is trying to defend someone, or she is not.  Which tells me that Miyako is either seeing what she wants to see, or is making shit up.  Toss in something I notice terrorists love to do, which is trying to pressure things so that everybody is eyeing only two people.  Get two matching trains lined up, and it can be hard to get eyes off of those trains.  Which is good news for them if the two folks involved are clean, and it sounds like nice clean thinking to boot.

Now, as bad as I think Shoe looks, I'm thinking that Mason's active, and passive, lurking looks one hell of a lot worse.  So, let's put some attention on him.

##Unvote: Shoe,  ##Vote: Stone Mason

Edit: Been ninja'd will reply later.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 11:41:55 PM
I don't generally restrict my choices based on "who is a popular target". I go for "who I think is scum". If in the last hour or two I won't get my way I'll go for who I think deserves it most AFTER my No1 suspect, but I prefer my No1 suspect. Right now, if I can't have Steven I'll have Sandor, but I'll probably not move on to either of the other wagons because hell if I agree with them.

Sandor may have started WIFOM derpton, but Steven's the one who picks the WIFOM ball, and decides it must be absolutely correct. That's severe misguided, and I can't really pass that off as "whoops naive believing what others say" because it's harmful at this point due to Easy Bandwagon HopTM.


Ninja. Stupid reasons only cut it for eD1. Evangeline's reason to jump on is still stupid, and only now has she refined it to be against Shoe's behaviour which is STILL stupid. I'm honestly having a hard time deciding who is the worst now. The more I think about it the more confused I get.

Evangeline: gets on bandwagon with DERP, stays on it with DERPFOM.
Sandor: gets on bandwagon with DERPFOM.
Steven: gets on bandwagon with Sandor's DERPFOM and AMPLIFIES it.

I still don't get why you hold WIFOM against Shoe. You can argue that Scum would act Townier than Town because it's SCUM who want to look like Town, and Town assume all their actions are Town. But you'll never know. It's not reasoning that can be analysed, scrutinised and picked apart because while it's theoretically possible, it's just not testable until a lynch, and you sort of want to lynch for solid, good reasons.

Not a "Well, he may be acting Scummy because he knows we'll rea--" not ending that. It's just too, too, TOO much "Genius Mastermind Gambit" and honestly? I don't really believe Flamboyantly Aggressive = Scum. I've acted really loud, really aggressive in past games, too, and I wasn't scum back then.

I mean, by the same token. What you're doing is really, really confusing and hard to follow. Scum knows doing those kind of things will get them scrutiny, so maybe you're scum acting incredibly derp just hoping we'll pass it off as derptown. It's impossible to defend against those kind of allegations without flipping.



@Stuffman: Because it was an absurd call on your part that Roddy supposedly hid a vote. That's just trying too hard to pretend to look at others. You're still solely focused on me mainly. All you've done is prod others a little, and raised a ridiculous accusation against Roddy based on Hyper Paranoia.

I'd think scum'd avoid "stealth voting" because it's too obvious. In the next votecount everyone'd realise if he did it right. It's just an absurd attempt to pretend you're looking at others.

And stop trying to twist the logic. It was a serious vote, but it's not a reason I'd saunter around as THE BEST REASON EVER as there are better reasons to vote people and when they arise I will use them. Third on the train = scum is better than "lol masons i won't vote".

I can't follow your train of thought in the slightest. Tunnel vision much?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 07, 2010, 11:48:03 PM
As much as I appreciate you jumping off me John, I dislike the fact you've jumped from one of the major bandwagons with less than 6 hours left in the day. Granted, I realize that lynch will occur no matter what, but it intrigues me you've chosen to not be on either wagon. In fact, you've effectively cast a swing vote towards lynching Gamzee, given the rules. Again, I don't mind this from a self preservation standpoint but it worries me.

If you were so worried about 'terrorists' focusing the game on two people, why did it take you so long to stop tunneling on me to look at others? Why did you wait til there was less than 12.5% of the day left to effectively try to start a new wagon? This disorganization is REALLY bugging me at this point.

@Saki-ninja: That's admirable, but it skews results. But, admittedly, having reread how the early lynches work, I'm not worried about losing the lynch as much now. What DOES bug me is this sudden outpouring of weak counterwagons rather close to the deadline, which feels in and of itself like a distraction.

Anyway, what makes John's agreeing with Sandor's logic different from Steven?

Also, is this:

Quote
I mean, by the same token. What you're doing is really, really confusing and hard to follow. Scum knows doing those kind of things will get them scrutiny, so maybe you're scum acting incredibly derp just hoping we'll pass it off as derptown. It's impossible to defend against those kind of allegations without flipping.

Directed at me?

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 07, 2010, 11:57:10 PM
I must've missed John. Urgh, the WIFOM... I forgot about this place's levels of DERP. I'll give John a look over but honestly, that just makes the Shoe train incredibly weak and I'll be utterly aghast if it pulls through, regardless of flip.

And no, that's directed at Steven.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 07, 2010, 11:58:23 PM
Sigh, y'know Shoe.  One of the real issues I have with you is that I don't know exactly how much of my drive to vote for you is because I think you're a terrorist, and how much is just pure satisfaction at seeing you get hauled up and hung for your crap.  Because hell knows, if anyone here deserves it, it's you.  I just hope that God has mercy and you aren't Town.

That said, we still got a few good hours to go.  And enough time to turn these trains around if someone's found out.  So, I'm gonna call bullshit on your only three trains matter now.  Especially given how they seem to be two people you want dead, and one you claim doesn't have a hell of a chance to go off.


Steve, when I asked for who you'd vote for, I also asked why.  You didn't say why.


Ninja, by Shoe of all people.  Lovely.

I'll just say this.  You say six hours isn't enough time.  I say I've seen a man stop a train at L-1, and get a man at no votes lynched in fifteen minutes.  In rules that said that there would be no lynch if there wasn't majority lynch.  And I also say that Stone Mason's jack all is the worst looking thing in the field right now.  Though, if it doesn't stick, well, just like you, I've got a major train to fall back on that I just happen to agree with.

As for why it took so long, I only have so much time.  If a lot of stuff happens while I'm gone, can't help that.

Edit: Saki, why do you think that Sandor is worse than Stone Mason?  They've done the same things, but Mason was worse on every count.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 12:01:07 AM
Quote
Sigh, y'know Shoe.  One of the real issues I have with you is that I don't know exactly how much of my drive to vote for you is because I think you're a terrorist, and how much is just pure satisfaction at seeing you get hauled up and hung for your crap.  Because hell knows, if anyone here deserves it, it's you.  I just hope that God has mercy and you aren't Town.

Cry moar.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 08, 2010, 12:05:47 AM
Oh, so everyone is onboard the WIFOM train? Oh, Stone Mason isn't. He's pressure voting and hopping on a bandwagon.

Yeah, it's kind of overshadowed by Wifom, Wifom everywhere, John.

Also, not liking this "personal grudge" reason for voting Shoe. Vote for scum, not for people you can't get along with.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 12:09:30 AM
Now that that's out of the way, how OFTEN does a wagon turn around in 15 minutes? ESPECIALLY in a game where I think half the players haven't even posted this real life day? Where do you expect to get the votes? If we had more activity, I'd be more willing to drag things to the bleeding cutting edge of deadline. But we don't. I'd prefer a solid decision to a lukewarm one, since I think more scum can be ferreted out by competing bandwagons. But, hey, if another wagon gains enough support, and I like it, I'll vote with it. Stone Mason looks bad, I agree, but quite honestly, there are so many WORSE looking people that I basically think you've blinded yourself to anyone except those that are me or supporting me, even indirectly. I don't think that focus will catch "terrorists".

Addressing the supposed sentiment against my attitude, as I explained before, I'm not used to dealing with humans who refuse to use the brains they have. I get abrasive when people refuse to do that. I get more abrasive when they are blatantly voting because they don't like my attitude, rather than trying to catch scum. Cause you know what? There's a fair chance that comes from incredibly stupid town, who has decided their PRECIOUS emotions are far more important than finding the scum.

And you know what happens with that? Scum win because you can't get over yourself. I mean, fuck, I'm narcissistic but I'm at least trying to hunt scum rather than people who hate me. So, get over it, and I'll try to back off. Fair enough? But if I'm to back off, I would like in exchange for everyone who is voting me because of my "attitude", to reassess their case and analyze people who might not be pissing them off, but are the true scum. I don't think this is unreasonable. In fact, let's further extend the paw of reason here. I'm willing to accept amendments to my conditions if they're reasonable. I'm willing to talk this out. Now are you? Or are you so blinded that you will refuse?

tl;dr: I need to back the fuck off, since my attitude is obfuscating scumhunting. You all need to learn to fucking think with your heads, not your hearts, since that attitude is obfuscating scumhunting. I'm willing to back off, and will do so first. In exchange I want you to reassess things with your minds, not your emotions. Any reasonable amendments or objections to this assessment will be met with serious consideration. Got it?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 12:12:48 AM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone
Stone Mason (1): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura, John McClane
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe, Saki Marimi
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (0): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (4): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (2): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo
 
8 votes will lynch, so Shoe and Gamzee are at L-4. About 5 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped. (Addendum: Given how late it is in the day, even if I do find a Satoshi replacement, they will still get modkilled unless they post something meaningful.)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 08, 2010, 12:24:15 AM
You say that like it means something.  If he's pressure voting, then why is he putting pressure on someone who has been talking a lot?  Why is he putting it one someone who is already under pressure and not on someone who has none?  It makes no sense and sounds like a token reason that people won't pay close attention to because it sounds legit on the surface.

As for the personal grudge thing, you'll notice that I've also voted for someone else.  So, it's very patently not my sole motivation here.

And, now that I've cooled off a bit, I'll explain why his abrasive style is actually a very anti-town, very pro-scum style.  The nature of the commentary, being highly insulting, highly based on ad homoneims, is generally very good at provoking emotional responses.  Done right, this also let's you try and claim to be innocent because you're still using reason and logic while those arrayed against you are being emotional and not making sense.  It also makes it more likely that they'll make mistakes, and may even doubt their own motives in going against you.  Either way, unless enough townies have a policy of auto-lynching this behavior, odds are you'll last surprisingly long like this.

However, let's assume the best case scenario.  In this case, you're still town, and not trying to make fellow townies look bad for bad lynches.  But you're still doing it.  Town is getting emotional, making mistakes, and getting focused on you instead of on scum like they should be.  You now not only spend your time dealing with false leads and bad attacks, but your fellow townies are now playing worse.

And that's not even getting into the toxic nature of the playstyle.  Creating drama, driving people away from the game, and causing it to wither and rot.

So, yeah.  My beef with Shoe's playstyle is a very strong one, and it's one with plenty of objective reasoning as to why it's a scumtell.  And why I have zero issue with Sangor for wanting to vote Shoe based on that alone.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 08, 2010, 12:30:54 AM
Shoe, as much as I like your offer to scale back, I've got to honestly say, a huge amount of the flak you're getting is because you seem to equate "Not thinking" with "Voting for you", and as such, have absolutely no grounds to claim that other people are the ones only going after the folk who are hounding them.  I also note that your voting record, and arguments, seem pretty firmly rooted in the folks who have either voted for you, or commented on you first.

Fifteen minutes, I wouldn't try.  But hey, it's as you said.  The lynch will happen anyways, and if the one I'm pushing for doesn't happen, plenty of time to get on board the case I agree with the most.  But until then, why sit back and just accept the way things are flowing.  If you see something that looks like scum, then push.  And Mason looks a hell of a lot like lurking scum, which is a lot more solid than any other case presented today, including yours.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 08, 2010, 12:33:50 AM
Based on her latest outburst, I didn't make my point clearly enough here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401966.html#msg401966)

who has decided their PRECIOUS emotions are far more important than finding the scum.
OK, moggie, this is where you go too far. You appear to have forgotten that at the end of the day this is a game. It's not serious business, and it's not worth getting so aggravated about. I'm not saying this as an accusation of scuminess like some people are, but I will say this: tone it the crud down, and treat other players like human crudding beings rather than insisting that everyone is somehow inferior to you. It doesn't make you sound more convincing, it just harbours grudges.

##Mods, confirmation as to whether Shoe's overemotional gaming is within the realms of not being lame? By this point she's simply starting to be rather insulting to other players.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 12:36:23 AM
I'm going to do this post without any fancy roleplay or anything.

I'm well aware that being antagonistic isn't helpful at best, and does cause problems with logic/reason at worst. It's a risk I took playing as Shoe, and not one that paid off too well. The information on my wagon SHOULD be fairly decent, but it'll be harder to prove that because of the emotional thing. But, Shoe is for all intents and purposes a self centered bitch. I've been playing her as such. Doesn't justify the playstyle, merely explains I was doing it less for mafia advantage and more for roleplay advantage. I am sure there are some people who can corrobate that if you know who they are. Not sure how much I should say since lol anonymafia, though it's pretty obvious who I am anyway. Either way, we should still pretend we don't know for the integrity of the game.

All that said, I do not see a vote based on that playstyle as particularly wise, especially given how obvious it was as roleplay. Regardless, I will back off that aspect of her personality in the future, since, in the end, the mafia game supercedes playing a character true to form. I invite you to call me out if I'm backsliding into antagonism, and such. I also think there are indeed two scum on my wagon. To be honest, John's honest reactions make me lean town on him at this time, despite some derp plays I'd more expect from scum.

So, as I said before, I'll back off. Can you all find it within yourselves to reassess and look for scumtells as opposed to someone who pisses you off?

@Roddy: Mea culpa, we're covering it. Honestly, that was just roleplay, and the tl;dr was basically my true proposal. But hopefully I've made it clearer here.  Either way, I agree that was a little out of line, so I'll apologize.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 12:39:22 AM
@Roddy: I have been talking to various people that have come to me in private about the happenings in this topic. I believe things will be dialed down for the future.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 12:40:58 AM
Actually, it's been a coincidence, that the scummiest people have been the one's voting me. Most of the town has noticed that the reasons for voting me are VERY lackluster. If that weren't the case, I'd be dead by now, or at least at L-1. You've even directly admitted it's mostly playstyle. You'd supposedly justified it, but I refuse to accept that. I think others refuse to accept it as well. Honestly, I'm not even sure you believe it so much as you just want my head.

I expect the townier amongst those on my wagon to at least have better justification at this point.

Let me try this. If you knew, without a doubt, I was town, how scummy would those on my wagon look to you? I realize it's a silly thought exercise that assumes an axiom only I have. But I hope it helps you see where I'm coming from at this point.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Faiz on August 08, 2010, 12:42:13 AM
I'm going to assume that any action I'll take will only serve to implicate me further, so I guess there's really nothing to worry about anymore.

Mr. McClane (and others): Here's the truth: I guess I'm taking the "Easy Bandwagon Hop" route like Ms. Marimi said. I'm not too experienced at spotting liars or deceit, and at this point I can't see anything definitively wrong with anyone. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like I'm allowed to not vote without being accused of scum intent, and at this point, the argument against Shoe was the best one.

##Unvote

Shoe's made an apology (or the closest thing to one) so I will admit that I had some personal bias against her. Apologies.

What can I say now? There's not much to say, really, considering that we're nearing the deadline. It looks like Mr. Makara is getting the lynch today unless everyone suddenly decides to change their votes, so I'll express my gratitude for his defending me, even though it didn't really end up benefiting either of us. I can't say for a fact that you aren't scum, but thanks anyway.

There's approximately three hours four hours left and I'm at a loss as to what I can do.

(I totally failed to understand the deadline here)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 08, 2010, 12:43:48 AM
There's a good kitty. Now restate your cases in a coherent manner without miring it in roleplay and ad hominem so even people with the attention span of Emiya Shirou can ken what you're saying.

Still no Gamzee, which has me very concerned that he's expecting Shoe's dramatics to dig her grave for her. Definitely sticking with him.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 12:52:24 AM
Oh, I forgot one thing. As a player, I do apologize for the abuse I've heaped on everyone so far. (Shoe...um...probably wouldn't get it, but hopefully you can accept my non Shoe apology).

(I'd also like to state that I actually asked Suwako whether I was causing issues AFTER I offered to back off,  so it wasn't purely just moderator action forcing me to capitulate, though it will necessitate I stick more to it)

Anyway, basically, the case on Sandor is that he wagon hops me to L-3 basically because he didn't like my attitude. This is first very weak for L-3, but also he doesn't really consider anyone else as a possibility. Why is he tunneling on me when there's been a wealth of information? This wouldn't matter as much if my wagon weren't so huge as is, but it was. So it was a thinly veiled wagon hop while there was no counterwagon. It reeks of following public sentiment and not actually scumhunting. Further, his suspicious disappearance is, well, suspicious.

Gamzee, well, I did actually mean most of what I said in the big post implicating him. He's caught squarely in the middle of some scummy hypocrisy. He's applying a tell to me that applies more strongly to him. Not all hypocrisy is scummy, but I believe that particular brand is. Further, his disappearance act after my implication says a LOT of bad things about him. The trouble is I just canNOT shake the noob feeling I'm getting from him. I'll push his lynch, since I feel logic is on my side but...I'm not happy with it, to be honest.

Evangeline has quite honestly just been shit stirring and changing events every time she posts something against me so she can be right. She's not trying to scumhunt, she's trying to get me to discredit myself. I realize I didn't say this before but I actually didn't realize it til now. Beyond that she hasn't expressed any other strong opinions.

Can I hold off on Stone until people have reacted to his latest post? I have a strong opinion on him now but I'd like to see what others say.

Anyway, I'm reasonably sure at least one, if not two out of the three I mentioned do not have the town's best interests at heart, and need to be thrown into the nearest fireball :3c.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 08, 2010, 12:57:13 AM
Right, read up on John... not too concerned with him just yet. Main WIFOM fools remain Steven, Evangeline, SANDOR, and now Steven has me at a loss.

Steven. You can't just assume everyone's speaking the truth. Mafia is a game of lying and bluffing. You must pierce through that, and there's plenty. Put question marks when someone does something you don't agree with.

There's a bunch of allegations out there you can push. Look at others' cases. Do you agree? Do you disagree? If you view the cases, is there something they overlooked, or exaggerate? Are there people who haven't spoken up (enough)? How about Gamzee? Do you think he should be lynched?

Do you think Shoe should be lynched because his actions are scummy (i.e. lying, deceiving, trying to lead town by the nose and attacking an innocent lad) or do you think they're just plain aggressive? There's just... a lot of stuff on-going at the moment.

Heck, I'd love for someone to take StuffMan's tunnel vision under a loop but what can you do. (ps: this doesn't mean you should lol)

Just read the thread a little, skim some. Look at people who say something that make you think, "Wait... I don't follow". I can guarantee at least one person is going around lying their arse off trying to get someone lynched not because they think he's scum, but because they just want that person lynched. And that's scum. Find that person, hammer him down and get him lynched.

Get to it, soldier.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 08, 2010, 01:00:53 AM
@McCLane: Sounds like a perfect ruse to get two clean people up?  Excuse me, only one person can be lynched per day, and scum is more likely to get caught up in two bandwagons instead of just one.  And defending someone is not a subjective thing, it is a very very active scumtell to me for reasons already explained.  Might as well say that he's scum.... or he's not.

===

In other words, all this schizophrenia about Steven, Stone and Sandor is bothering me quite a bit.  And it's affecting me too.  Why Sandor especially when it can be merely seen as noobish play?  Her lynch for today has a lesser chance of telling us anything, given her limited interactions with people.   McClane and Evengeline need to state their cases again in this latest development on Shoe, since Sandor's and Steven's seem to have melted down to nothing.  As much as I do not like the insulting Shoe has done, I do not like how everyone's cases seem to be have a less-than-subtle emotional tinge on them, and I want this to be weeded out.

Gamzee's absence in the Shoe back and forth is a little conspicuous as Roddy says.  I still think that that he is to be a better man for the lynch, but I am also fine with Shoe if needed.  Stone, Steven and Clangor are just too distant from the main action for me to care about for today by virtue of their inexperience or absence, and I think either Shoe's or Gamzee's flip will tell us more about them in D2.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 01:02:25 AM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (3): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone
Stone Mason (1): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura, John McClane
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe, Saki Marimi
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (0): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (4): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (2): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Gamzee is at L-4. About 4 1/2 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped. (Addendum: Given how late it is in the day, even if I do find a Satoshi replacement, they will still get modkilled unless they post something meaningful.)

Side note: Avatar change not a result of anything happening in the topic, but a result of someone telling me the other one was over the forum's size limit.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 08, 2010, 01:40:13 AM
Shoe, you'd be surprised.  I've had a stupid good success rate using that aggressive play tell, and it's a scum tell I like to look for.  You've actually been pushing a lot of my scum buttons, from using random trains to try and push for attention away from people, to the aggressive play.  The RP may or may not have been a cover.

As for if I were assuming you were town, still doesn't mean that the people on you are necessarily scum, even if they are weak.  It is Day 1 after all.  From where I'm sitting, the votes on Gamzee are looking a lot weaker, in that one of them seems to have no reason (everyone on you barring Steve had a reason) and is from the scummiest looking person on the field.  And another, while I suspect  Miyako's vote is entirely sincere, regardless of which team she is on, is for reasons that I fundamentally disagree with.

Also, having read your posts, well.  If you're uneasy about Gamzee, join me on Mason.  I think the dirt on him is as hard as we're going to get today.  Sangor, reads less like a lurker and more like a guy who hates day 1, so I'm really watching for what he does Day 2 to make up my mind on him.

Steven, all I can tell is he's new.  And he still hasn't given me any whys.  I think I could be persuaded there now.


Now, Miyako.

You say that scum is more likely to get caught in two bandwagons than one.  I agree, but they're also more likely to be caught in three, or four even.  Whereas if scum gets lucky and two townies grab suspicion early, then if they promote two trains, then people are more likely to get caught up in the decision between which of those two looks worse, and forgets to look for the possibility that they may have missed someone else.

And I disagree with your views on defending people.  There is a great deal of things to look for when someone does that that can be scum tells, or town tells.  And may help expose a scum trying to attack someone.  And this doesn't rely on someone either failing to defend themselves through either a mistake or failing to catch something that someone else did, nor on having to wait for the person involved to show up.  As a final point, it's active.  When you defend, you promote discussion, and give people information about yourself, as well as about the person who attacked.


Finally, one thing I did notice thanks to Miyako there is that Mason was the tying vote until Steve came along.  And at a time when Shoe's momentum was dropping, and Gamzee's was going strong.  That is not something you should be doing as a "pressure vote" in the second half of the day with no ETA.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 08, 2010, 01:40:48 AM
Sigh...and by ETA, I mean expected time of return.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 08, 2010, 01:44:46 AM
Ugh, I want to stab Firefox. All the work of making a post lost because of a stupid misclick.

@Stone: Go with who you think is the most scummy, or who you feel has the best argument against them. From your post, it sounds like you still think Shoe stands out the most, and don't put much faith into Gamzee being scum ("I can't say for a fact that you aren't scum")

Evangeline: gets on bandwagon with DERP, stays on it with DERPFOM.

How does being the first non-joke vote (and the second vote on Shoe) count as getting on a bandwagon? ???


If you were so worried about 'terrorists' focusing the game on two people, why did it take you so long to stop tunneling on me to look at others? Why did you wait til there was less than 12.5% of the day left to effectively try to start a new wagon? This disorganization is REALLY bugging me at this point.

Your hypocrisy bugs me. Or do you not count your vote against Sandor as "starting a new wagon", especially after just getting done making a case against Gamzee?

McClane and Evengeline need to state their cases again in this latest development on Shoe, since Sandor's and Steven's seem to have melted down to nothing.  As much as I do not like the insulting Shoe has done, I do not like how everyone's cases seem to be have a less-than-subtle emotional tinge on them, and I want this to be weeded out.

My case against Shoe didn't build up because she was getting under my skin, but because of her actions. She batted around a weak case against Stone, then went full-force with a weak case against Gamzee, which... culminated in a vote against Sandor and an admittance that her attack on Gamzee was a clever ruse to root out real scum? What the hell? Nevermind that she's been guilty of the same thing she's been accusing other people of, holding back her D1 vote and calling her exchanges 'scumhunting', along with getting on Saki's case for late non-bandwagoning when that's exactly what she did with Sandor.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 08, 2010, 01:53:36 AM
Oh, it looks like I left out this bit when I had to reconstruct my last post:

Evangeline has quite honestly just been shit stirring and changing events every time she posts something against me so she can be right. She's not trying to scumhunt, she's trying to get me to discredit myself. I realize I didn't say this before but I actually didn't realize it til now.

Give me some examples of the 'shit stirring' and 'changing events'. Please, i'm all ears.

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 01:59:58 AM
YAY! More Evangeline trying to discredit me. Folks, if you need any more evidence, that last post was pretty damn good :3c. It's quite enjoyable how she completely ignores the fact my vote came with at least 25% of the day left, whereas the later votes came with close to 10% of the day. I'd say this is quite a difference. So, your hypocrisy holds no water. As for "holding back my D1 vote", it's more like my scum group has been so ridiculously scummy it was hard to choose.

How does my "clever ruse" further the goal of scum, may I ask? Why would I want to back off of the counterwagon that will likely save my life and instead go after someone who is harder to wagon? How does this help Shoe-scum? You're still not thinking this through.

If you sincerely have the town's interest at heart, I hope you're willing to look outside of me and find scum. So far you haven't demonstrated such a trait. Tunneling isn't necessarily scummy, but it is anti-town.

Face it. Your reasoning does not make sense if you are hunting scum.

@John: Trouble is in my experience aggression has tended to be a null tell. Rather, the direction of the aggression determined intent. I have nothing to hide, and feel my aggression, while overly hostile, has still been pointed in a townie direction. The only problem is the emotional noise I cultivated with my hyperaggression, which should hopefully dissipate now that I've decided to kinda stop that.

I feel that voting Stone would not be optimal at this point. Given the direction of my posts thus far, I'd effectively be almost capriciously switching to Stone and abandoning several cases, two of which are more likely to reach a solid majority lynch. Well...maybe one. I'd like to think the anti-Sandor sentiment will actually show in votes, but as we approach deadline that doesn't seem likely. Stone doesn't register as bad to me, I guess. I also am convinced that my wagon has at least one scum, as I've said, so voting outside my wagon would also be counterproductive at this juncture.

Anyway, at this point Evangaline stands out as scummier than Sandor. She's not trying to lynch scum, she's trying to lynch Shoe. Her entire game has been spent on a mad discreditation mission, rather than actual casing. We're also about...two hours? from deadline. Which means I have to surrender my Sandor vote if I want a chance at a majority lynch.

##Unvote, ##Vote Gamzee

I'm fully aware despite my sentiments the vote is what matters, and I'm fully responsible for it. I'll take that responsibility.

Oh, Evangeline ninja: Well, what's funny is, you haven't provided any examples of what you accuse me of yourself. Despite me asking for them earlier. So how about I propose a trade, my dear. You post yours and I'll post mine :3c. It'll take me a bit to collate it anyway.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kabuto on August 08, 2010, 02:02:54 AM
From your post, it sounds like you still think Shoe stands out the most, and don't put much faith into Gamzee being scum ("I can't say for a fact that you aren't scum")
I don't like how you're trying to lead Steven into agreeing with you rather than letting him speak for himself. Something to look over D2, but I'm catching a hint of crud here.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 02:50:06 AM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (3): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone
Stone Mason (1): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura, John McClane
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe, Saki Marimi
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (0): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (5): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason, Shoe
Sandor Clegane (1): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Gamzee is at L-5. About 2 1/2 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped. (Addendum: Given how late it is in the day, even if I do find a Satoshi replacement, they will still get modkilled unless they post something meaningful.)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 08, 2010, 02:51:20 AM
How does my "clever ruse" further the goal of scum, may I ask? Why would I want to back off of the counterwagon that will likely save my life and instead go after someone who is harder to wagon? How does this help Shoe-scum? You're still not thinking this through.

You never backed off the counterwagon, since you said you "prefer a Sandor lynch, but will easily support a Gamzee lynch". And backing off helps Shoe-scum because it lets you avoid having a vote stuck on a townie, yet still gives you an excuse if you have to move your vote later. You and Gamzee at L-4 looks bad, but less so when you still have a vote up your sleeve. And here's proof of your hypocrisy, along with pointing out how poor your defense of that hypocrisy was.

We don't have a lot of time, but at this point I prefer a Sandor lynch, but will easily support a Gamzee lynch, since it would be foolish to completely ignore everything I dug up in favor of a gut feeling.

##Unvote, ##Vote Sandor

(Keep in mind that this vote occurred 4.5 hours before the Saki vote, At T-11 and T-6.5)

YAY! More Evangeline trying to discredit me. Folks, if you need any more evidence, that last post was pretty damn good :3c. It's quite enjoyable how she completely ignores the fact my vote came with at least 25% of the day left, whereas the later votes came with close to 10% of the day. I'd say this is quite a difference. So, your hypocrisy holds no water.

'T-6.5 vs T-11' don't seem as 'quite the difference' when you put it that way, does it? And for someone who spouts probabilities, you seem to be terrible at proportions. T-11 = 22.9% of the day left, and T-6.5 = 13.5%. So indeed, it does seem less if you don't break it down into vague percentages (of which your 'at least 25% of the day' comment being just plain wrong') Hell, you commented yourself when you voted Sandor that "We don't have a lot of time".


Oh, Evangeline ninja: Well, what's funny is, you haven't provided any examples of what you accuse me of yourself. Despite me asking for them earlier. So how about I propose a trade, my dear. You post yours and I'll post mine :3c. It'll take me a bit to collate it anyway.

This *really* feels like you're trying to dodge around answering me. I gave you some proof above, so explain the "'shit stirring' and 'changing events'". I mean, after all:

We don't have a lot of time

:3
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 03:00:03 AM
I backed off long enough to try to get a Sandor lynch. That's what counts. Since, you know, my vote was on Sandor. Also, turns out my deadline calculations were off by an hour, but that doesn't really matter if you actually pay attention to the game. The 11 or 12 hours I had were still a lot more than the 6 Saki had. At 11/12 hours the manifest inactivity wasn't completely apparent. But keep trying, I might have some green stars :3c.

And, nah, you show your work first. You never answered my question from awhile ago. You know

Quote
However, I am not an unreasonable kitty. I want you to prove me wrong. Link me to EVERY allegation you level against me, rather, to every point where I've committed it. It's highly doubtful you even CAN, given your propensity towards bullshit, to use a vulgar term, but on the off chance you come up with something, I'd very much like to fire a few magic missiles at it and reveal it's inaccuracy explicitly.

This one. The one you've conveniently ignored. Because you can't back up anything.

You have to give to get, and I asked first. As it happens, I do have a post ready I'll probably post before the end of D1, but I'd rather get something useful from you before you try to distract the issue at hand again.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 08, 2010, 03:14:16 AM
Looks like I'm also going to have to back off.  Reviewed the Gamzee case, and it seems to be "Last person on a weak case" which I just can't stand behind.  So, it'll be going back to Shoe for me.

##Unvote: Mason, ##Vote: Shoe
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kiva-la on August 08, 2010, 03:39:52 AM
Give me a break, Miyako. You really think I'd vote someone for such a flimsy reason as that? Why don't you take a quick look back to when I voted you; it's all there.

As for the rest of you headaches... *sigh* Where do I even begin?

I think... that today has been mostly fluff. Also that I haven't actually had time to comb through it all, nor will I before day's end. As such, in the first 3 pages (90 posts) I haven't seen anything worth changing my mind. So, I won't. If somebody wants to try and change my mind, go ahead, but I'm not swimming through any more crud before the end of the day, so you'll have to be a little more direct than what I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Den-O on August 08, 2010, 03:48:17 AM
I HATE IT WHEN SHIT COMES UP AND STOPS ME FROM POSTING IN MAFIA!

Anyway, had to skim the topic to get this post in, know there's not much time left in the day, figured I'd at least clarify my position on the off chance it sways anyone.  It's not that I thought Shoe's abrasiveness made her scum, 'cause I'm full aware of who she is.  It's that I think she knew full well that she was being more abrasive than acceptable, given her history, and that she was using her transparent identity as an excuse to be that way and call it harmless meta.  Posting huge insulting walls of text and then sitting back and waiting to see who makes enough of an ass of himself to get lynched is a scummy tactic.  I'm keeping my vote where it is.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 03:51:48 AM
/me sighs.

Was hoping for better than that. Then again, I guess since that appears to be the party line for those voting me, I can't expect a whole lot. Have fun trying to lynch (temporarily) annoying town rather than actual scum. And pretty much outright admitting that's what you're doing, no matter how you try to pretty it up. It will bite you in the ass QUITE hard in the future if this lynch somehow goes through. VERY friggen hard. You're already getting a ton of flack for your crappy vote. Acting like it's justifiable is just diggin the hole deeper guy.

Evangaline has nine minutes to respond before I go to bed. I'll post my stuff, but her delayed response heavily implies she was doing exactly what I said she would, i.e. attempting to distract from the issue so she can get away with it.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 04:05:11 AM
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone, John McClane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura, John McClane
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe, Saki Marimi
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (0): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (5): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason, Shoe
Sandor Clegane (1): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Gamzee is at L-3 and Shoe is at L-4. About 75 minutes to go in Day 1.

Satoshi will be modkilled at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 04:14:01 AM
The post I'll be sending Evangeline once she puts up.

Your first lolwut (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401922.html#msg401922) reasoning. Obviously the implication is you think that I'm scum for attacking Steven. But further, the implication is that my walls of text are scummy. You don't out right say this though, which is interesting. Either way, it's the first attempt in a long series of events to discredit me.

And Boom (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402004.html#msg402004), subtle shift. It's no longer about the WoTs or speculation, it's now "How far will Shoe go with an early D1 case on Steven Stone, because early D1 cases have to have AIRTIGHT LOGIC >=[!" Then you basically attack me for some roleplay reasons, and try to draw reasoning for a town read out of me. That's actually a mild scumtell, since towntells are the kind of thing scum want to know so as to emulate them. But, mild, anyway.

Oh manz, it's another shift (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402483.html#msg402483). Bear in mind this is around 12ish hours before deadline. The time for weak reasoning has passed. Your second paragraph is blatantly false, as I believe my "guns" turned to those jumping on my case later in the bandwagon for weak reasons.

Quote from: Evangeline
Also, where's your vote on Gamzee anyway? Does the idea of being third on this bandwagon worry you if he flips town?

And here's the shitstirring. I shouldn't have capitulated to it actually, since you drew out my trap before it could be sprung. A miscalculation on my part. It feels very much as if you were trying to coax that out of me so that you could fling more shit at me on your discreditation campaign.

Moar misrep (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402823.html#msg402823). You completely ignore the fact Sandor, Gamzee, AND you were lurking your way out of explaining yourselves. And that Sandor and Gamzee both STILL lack replies. I provided solid reasoning for why I wasn't voting a solid suspect yet. You just ignore it because it's inconvenient.

And, of course, your latest two posts are another blatantly false discrediation mission.

You've spent the entire game telling everyone I'm scum and...not a whole lot else. You also never explained my scum intent in my actions. Your case is fail, and the way you are pushing it reads as scum intent to get a polarizing mislynch, since, hey, it was pretty obvious I was going to be an annoying figure, and get votes on me to shut me the hell up. (Actually, debatable, for some reason this didn't occur to me til later :V)

And, finally, there's the fact Evangaline CONVENIENTLY failed to post what I asked for before I posted this, because, once again, she doesn't have anything. Hope you all make the right choice in the next hour and a half. Even if I'm lynched, I really hope you take time to look at the arguments against me and realize how ludicrously scummy most of them are.

I'll also reveal that Steven's unvote heavily implies Newb town to me, but I'd like him to make a vote before the day is over, since it is kinda bad to be without a vote at this juncture. I held back because I was hoping someone would attack him for it and we could get some information.

So, parting shot.

Evangaline and Sandor. At least one is scum. If I'm lynched I advise a second look at Gamzee as well, since at least then you'll have my flip information. Look at someone who's been defending me as well. I'm not sure who, since I've admittedly been focusing on my attackers. And, of course, remember vote analysis should be a solid weapon no matter who gets lynched.

Oh, also, swing vote is gonna be critical. If I'm lynched, the swing vote is more likely to be scum.

Honestly, I can't think of anything to add. Make the right choice. I'd like to have faith in you all, you know.

(Sorry about the delay, was waiting for a civility test on a couple things)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 08, 2010, 04:14:28 AM
Derp, the header was in my notes :V. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 04:25:59 AM
No change in the vote chart. 55 minutes left!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 08, 2010, 04:33:46 AM
@Raz: Well, if you're talking about the time between the second and third vote on Stone, then that's even flimsier, especially considering that we have switched our votes a long time ago from there.  Your lack of any contributions past the first three hours of the game is rather worrying too, as well as the lack of any attempt to convince anyone about the validity of your case (why should anyone convince you then?).  Combine this with no pressure voting and updating and you're pretty much a horrible liability to town, even if you think that the latter half of D1 is pure fluff (which is not, since votes were thrown around and bandwagons were formed).  Hopefully this will change during D2 after flips.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kiva-la on August 08, 2010, 04:39:03 AM
Real life comes before internet mafia. And if you could please link to my posts you're referring to? I'd rather let them speak for themselves; not that you aren't a fabulous public speaker, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ouja on August 08, 2010, 04:43:27 AM
Hello, hullo.

Talk. Talk talk. Apparently everyone but me knows who Shoe is. I don't think I'll care! But I can say that I'm not fond of the train on Shoe because the reasons are just incredibly flimsy. One of the worst Day 1 Trains I've seen, in my opinion.

Not impressed with Gamzee disappearing. Not sure what to make of it either way.

Sad to see my preferred targets won't go.

Disappointed with Razeluxe and StuffMan! The former because he refuses to read the latest happenings and thinks nothing should've happened to change his vote, and then leaves it to people of indeterminate alignment to convince him otherwise... not even pretending to scumhunt is incredibly lazy. Why sign up for a game if you won't play.

The latter because he's done nothing all day but focus solely singularly on a wordplay trick to pursue me and has spent minimal attention to any of the other cases, with some pretense of being concerned over others... but not really doing much either way. Would definitely like to see him take off the tunnel vision goggles and start looking around.

Various shades of inactive on other people, lolwut remains for the people who DO post (I'm looking at you, Steven Stone, and the medieval guy whose name slips my memory every time) and just general apathy by now with how the game moves. Really guys.

Anyway, I'm sure as heck not going to let a Shoe train happen with as flimsy as the reasons on him are right now, so I'll be content to hop aboard the Gamzee train. The disappearance at an unconvenient time reeks of "hiding", and how everyone's just kept on attacking Shoe could be construed as a way to take attention off Gamzee and on Shoe.

Or just plain hate for the roleplay. I don't know. I've never felt Shoe was really that insulting, and it was pretty obvious roleplay.

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: Gamzee


There you have it.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Decade on August 08, 2010, 04:44:38 AM
With this little time left I do not think that any other wagons will take off.  While Miss Moriya was very benevolent to allows us to lynch without a majority, a majority lynch would be better for analysis in the future.

The wagon on Miss Shoe is still....very bad.  The only reasons I've seen are "she's abrasive," "she attacked Steven" and "because I felt like it."  None of these things make for a compelling case.  So far I have been satisfied with her scumhunting.  I do not blame her for using her own wagon because it has to be one of the worst things I have ever seen in Mafia.

I....I don't like the case on Mr. Makara much more.  I think both the wagons are likely on town, but there is not much time left and the wagon on Miss Shoe is far worse than this one.  This one at least has one good point: that is, that he suddenly vanished.

##Unvote
##Vote Gamzee Makara


I will make another post with more thoughts if I can type it up in time.  I want to get this out as quickly as I can.

Ninjas, I'll address them later if I have time.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 04:47:57 AM
Gamzee Makara is at L-1!

35 minutes remain!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 08, 2010, 04:49:20 AM
And this is why I hate the idea that because you have two trains you have to stay with those two trains.  There's definately been a common theme that neither of these cases are very strong, but no one wants to move on to something else.

Well, ok, there's Raze, who doesn't seem interested in making his vote useful.  Either by making a real push for who he's voting for, or by moving and making his stance known on the two targets for today.  Either way, today seems to be decided, so I'm not likely to be sticking around for day's end.  Hope you guys are right.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Sasword on August 08, 2010, 05:03:33 AM
I didn't sign up for this 'vacation' to read all day long.  Nor did I sign up to have to wade through this crap; Arguments about fluff are, themselves, fluff. As for the rest of what you all have to say, I'll get back to that tomorrow, when I have more time. Until then, let me give you all a helping hand:

- Stone Mason isn't any more or less likely to be scum just because a wagon was built on him, that's WIFOM.

- There is at least one scum from the Shoe train, and more than likely one from the Stone Mason train as well.

- Don't just look at what is being said--it is scum's MO to lie and deceive you into an early grave--look beyond that.

- Bad play (newb play) is a null tell, pure and simple. Anybody who tries to argue otherwise is just smokescreening, and likely scum, since seriously what could ever convince you that bad play is a tell in either direction.

There is more, but I am short on time. Until then, folks.

There are only tips, no pressuring nor any scumhunting to help town, nor any furthering of the case against me.  Smells more like a logic puzzle than a post.  I'm fine if you think the arguments between Shoe and Gamzee or whatsoever are fluff and stuff like that, but the votes are material, and the bandwagons are real.  Not participating in any of them this close to the deadline reeks of scum trying to distance himself from all responsibility.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 05:05:45 AM
15 minutes remaining!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Kiva-la on August 08, 2010, 05:09:26 AM
Maybe I should clarify something here. My vote is where it is, because that is easily the scummiest thing I have seen so far. Everything else has been pretty easily defined as derp or worse, and I'm really not in the mood for the headache of a derpsandwich. I went through 3 pages, and only 3 because real life comes up, and I didn't see a single scumtell. All I saw was people getting a tad too gung-ho on bad play, and getting carried away with all that drama. I have purposefully been avoiding it because, hey, guess what? I have not seen a single strong case yet. Guess what else? It's Day 1. Strong cases aren't exactly prevalent, and all you people who think they are are just kidding yourselves. Sorry, but it's true. I believe both trains to be scum capitalizing on a Town/Town struggle.

I honestly believe Miyako to be the scummiest, because of the timing of the posts. If I had time to rake through every post, I'd be able to give you better cases on other people, but I can't. And I'm not apologizing for not dedicating my life to mafia. As such, my vote stays, and for the time being I maintain she is the scummiest person I've seen. Also, trying to paint me as scum for not having the time to read through 6 pages of game  is bad play. Not scummy, per se (though probably), but definitely not winning you the sportsmanship award.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 05:15:37 AM
5 minutes remaining!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 05:21:30 AM
Time is up!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 08, 2010, 05:31:28 AM
So that Hojo kid disappeared without a trace again? Man, he has no luck, does he? Too bad for him. Too bad for you lot, too, since I knew he was innocent.
 
Now, as for this Makara fellow here...gimme a moment.
 
Oh, and try not to look, this won't be for the squeamish.
 
...
 
...
 
...huh.
 
Looks like you lot aren't useless after all. Found a snake charm on one of his horns there. Guess I shouldn't be too surprised, no one who talks like that could be on the level. Well done, regardless.
 
Oh, and don't bother going after the body. I'm sure Aya and her friends will take care of it for us.
 
Satoshi Hojo, Town Rebound Striker, was modkilled due to pulling out!
Gamzee Makara, Scum Swiss Army Knife, was deadline lynched!
 
It is now Night 1, so all the good little players should go to bed and make no noise. People with night actions, please send them in.
 
Final Day 1 Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone, John McClane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura, John McClane
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (0): Shoe, Saki Marimi
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (0): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (7): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason, Shoe, Saki Marimi, Shannon
Sandor Clegane (0): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone

Oh, and I should add that nights will be no more than 24 hours. They might be less, though!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 1
Post by: Sasword on August 09, 2010, 12:05:02 AM
Since I have the ability to talk about the game during night, and since I am about to be gone for most of D2 anyway (be around only in the middle), I feel that I should give my thoughts first.

I think Shannon is the person I want to lynch today.  Steven and McCain are pretty much okay for now because they dropped their votes against Shoe when she was 5-4 against Gamzee, which does not seem like what scum would do.  Sandor is pretty much neutral for me now despite his silly votes.  Stone landed a crucial vote to push Gamzee up to 4 votes, despite his lack of reasoning, which makes me want to give another chance to see what he would do today.  Roddy is pretty much obvtown for now for being the first on the bandwagon, but his cheerleading of many other axillary cases strikes me a little bit.  Sailor Moon's vote feels the most out of place because of the schizophrenia ("Gamzee brings up good points but I think he's scum," without telling us the good points) .  Shoe is almost definitely town for now due to obvious reasons.

What bothers me most are those who defend Gamzee without putting too much effort into it (e.g scum wants to defend their fellow mates but not too obviously).  Shannon prodded me and Stone (strangely ignoring Sailor Moon, whose vote was further back), but did not follow up at all on my responses.   Shannon's can be found here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402427.html#msg402427).  Furthermore, Shannon defends Shoe and says that her scumhunting is satisfactory and trying her best, but never explains why, which strikes me as cheerleading to gain town credit.  She votes Sandor at a critical moment where Gamzee and Shoe had 4 and 5 votes respectively, seemingly as some sort of distraction to town, when Mason did the same thing against Gamzee, but for no reason at all.  This strikes me as very weird, as if she did not want to gain any suspicion if Gamzee was lynched on D1.  Thus, I think Shannon should be pressured today.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 1
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 09, 2010, 04:24:02 AM
All right! I think we're all ready to resume this little party. All of us except one, anyway. Someone's been playing with my handheld...what the hell is this garbage? "@[=g3,8d]\&fbb=-q]/hk%fg" ? What a cruddy final message.

Roddy MacStew, Town Chess Game, was killed overnight!

Day 2 has begun!

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal

12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. You have 72 hours. Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 09, 2010, 04:36:18 AM
And now, a brief word from our sponsor.

I'd like to take this time to re-emphasize the "Don't be lame" rule. I have had multiple players so far complained about, and I really do not want to have to spend half the game running around telling people to lighten up their attitudes. Please, let's all use a bit of common courtesy when interacting with each other as people. If you think a post might cause issues, either reword it, or mark it clearly as RP/flavor if that's how your character behaves. Err on the side of caution; it is better for everyone's blood pressure.

Thanks. We now rejoin our regularly scheduled game, already in progress.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
Post by: Ryuki on August 09, 2010, 06:25:35 AM
I'll try to respond to this as succinctly as possible, because I don't have much time and I won't be around much for the next 16 hours or so.

Your first lolwut (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401922.html#msg401922) reasoning. Obviously the implication is you think that I'm scum for attacking Steven. But further, the implication is that my walls of text are scummy. You don't out right say this though, which is interesting. Either way, it's the first attempt in a long series of events to discredit me.

And Boom (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402004.html#msg402004), subtle shift. It's no longer about the WoTs or speculation, it's now "How far will Shoe go with an early D1 case on Steven Stone, because early D1 cases have to have AIRTIGHT LOGIC >=[!" Then you basically attack me for some roleplay reasons, and try to draw reasoning for a town read out of me. That's actually a mild scumtell, since towntells are the kind of thing scum want to know so as to emulate them. But, mild, anyway.

"because early D1 cases have to have AIRTIGHT LOGIC >=[!", you said it yourself. I put my vote on you originally because it was slightly better than a random vote, and I kept seeing more and more reason to stick with it. Also, I never attacked you for roleplay reasons in that second post, I don't know what you're seeing. :| I was calling out the fact that you expressed some judgments of certain people but never elaborated.

Quote
Oh manz, it's another shift (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402483.html#msg402483). Bear in mind this is around 12ish hours before deadline. The time for weak reasoning has passed. Your second paragraph is blatantly false, as I believe my "guns" turned to those jumping on my case later in the bandwagon for weak reasons.

Uh. For one, that was 17 1/2 hours before deadline, look at Suwako's post two posts later. And two, you were still focused on Gamzee at that point.

Looks like I was interpreting a lot of your actions incorrectly, and yeah it's pretty obvious you're town at this point.  But i'll be damned if you didn't have me convinced, at least more than anyone else. :| I was pretty sure that of you and Gamzee one was scum and one was town, with you winning out in my mind.

One thing i'd like to add before dropping this. A lot of times you said things like "Link me to EVERY allegation you level against me, rather, to every point where I've committed it.", and "bla bla bla unsubstantiated bullshit, where's the proof", which I really felt were stalling tactics/lack of better arguments. Since I mainly made inferences based on your readily apparent actions (like espousing Gamzee then voting Sandor, or starting off with Stone then switching to Gamzee, etc.) Please, you gotta figure out a better way to stand up against scrutiny, because it made me think you were being pretty damn dodgy. The getting really pissed and losing your cool once the bandwagon got bigger didn't help matters much either.


Eh, so much for succinctness. Ah well. I don't have anything worthwhile to contribute at this point aside from parroting Miyako, and a pressure vote. At least until I get the opportunity to look over things from D1 later.

##Vote: Shannon
 
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Skull on August 09, 2010, 08:32:35 AM
The best looking case on this good ol' Mason is here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403084.html#msg403084).

The reason for pressuring Gamzee at the time was because I agreed with Shoe's logic in the case against him, as well as the other posts 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402063.html#msg402063) 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402108.html#msg402108) 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402139.html#msg402139) that indicated Gamzee could be in the wrong. In short, I waz swayed by the tide. Furthermore, I still hadn't put mah vote down, and since the 3rd vote had gotten in before I started, putting pressure was really all I could do. When I saw the third vote, I thought, 'Well, another vote won't hurt, a lot more are needed for a lynch. When/ If he talks more, I'll get a better read and change if need be, because I can sorta see his side too. I don't like the way it feels there's a carrot in front of my face, so I need to do some analyzing for myself." Unfortunately, didn't have time but, to do a once over. It looks like the ingress of votes on Gamzee led to an egress on him talking.

I am guilty on sticking to the shadows though, but only for short bits. Really only enough time to play catch-up. Though I did refrain from participating at one point because Gamzee still hadn't resurfaced, and I took a leaf from Shoe's book by deciding to fish a little for responses. I felt it wasn't patient enough with that ploy to catch any big fish. By the time I got back, the five minute bell had already rang, and before I could get anything out, I hit preview, and it was bedtime.

##Vote: McClane Are you satisfied with my defense?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 09, 2010, 08:48:30 AM
Not especially happy with your reasoning, since a pressure vote with no reasoning is meaningless, and it makes it hard for other people to be sure about you.  After all, no point in finding scum if no one listens to you because they think you're scum.  That's said, it's hard to argue with being one of the pivotal votes that lynched scum, so shouldn't be any issue if you actually provide commentary on people before they're dead.

On that note, I noticed you voted for me, but didn't mention anything of why you think I'm scum.  Got any reasons for that?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Sasword on August 09, 2010, 04:10:12 PM
Just dropping in quickly to ##Vote: Shannon for reasons above.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 09, 2010, 05:59:39 PM
Personally a little wary of Evangeline, who pushed so hard for a Shoe lynch which we now know was an alternative to a Gamzee lynch. I think we should take a hard look at those who tried to actively discredit the Gamzee case and/or push the Shoe case the hardest. I feel scum might've just fallen on its arse, because the 'disappear and say nothing more' strategy reeks of poor stratagem and bad decision-making on the scum-side of the game.

I... reluctantly agree that Shannon needs to explain herself a little. Where I understand that we both voted on a case we weren't completely on-board with, I am a bit loathe to accept her reasoning entirely. Voting solely for majority seems a little weird, especially if you believe both to be town. Perhaps it's just how games are played here.

I stand by my opinion that those on Shoe need a good, hard looking at. Unfortunately, the end result are Sandor, John, Steven and Evangeline. Two of those have little presence, Evangeline was suddenly convinced either Gamzee or Shoe were scum and John hasn't reviewed the previous day, but I feel considerably more comfortable with him.

Mostly because he didn't push for Shoe's train so hard, which would've made more sense if he were scum. Giving him the pass for now.

That leaves Steven, Sandor and Evangeline, of which Steven I want to ascribe having picked up the derpball and rolling with it. That leaves Sandor with his weak reasoning, and I'd like him to explain himself and iterate why the other cases arising were unappealing to him and why he focused solely on Shoe.

##VOTE: Sandor

I'd also like to hear Steven Stone's thoughts of the previous day and everything up to here so we can at least take him into consideration. Honestly all he is to me right now is a bunch of newbie mistakes, and I want to see that change into "more analysis", or at least "more participation". We won't lynch you for being stupid at this stage, that's reserved for D1.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 09, 2010, 06:02:07 PM
Right, the above also leaves Evangeline, but her bad reason stuck out like a sore thumb and, honestly, at this point I feel pressuring her on it won't return a lot of results. I would still like to query why Evangeline was so sure Shoe was scum, on D1, so we have a better picture of her vote reasons.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 09, 2010, 06:08:28 PM
Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (2): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi

12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. There are about 58 hours left in the day.

Shoe has informed me that they have having internet connection issues. It is unknown when they will be back online, but they are trying their best to do so.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 1
Post by: DiEnd on August 09, 2010, 06:08:59 PM
Sailor Moon's vote feels the most out of place because of the schizophrenia ("Gamzee brings up good points but I think he's scum," without telling us the good points) .
Hmm? I gave my reasoning by the end of that sentence. Here's a link to said post for convenience. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402108.html#msg402108) Or is it just that you think my points sucked? Last I checked, bandwagoning and exaggerating something to make it look scummy were nice reasons for a D1 case ):

Mason, on the other hand, actually does look kinda schizophrenic, as he spends his post defending himself and then... votes McClane out of nowhere without reasoning? Just because you don't like his case on you doesn't make him scum; that's OMGUS territory. Hell, you even said it was the best of the cases on you.

Miyako's case on Shannon looks nice, I'd like to see what Shannon has to say about it. There's already two votes on her, so I'll look elsewhere for the moment.

Shoe is obvtown, and Steven is derp. Sandor is lurky, I'd like to see more from him so I could get a better read. Need to reread again and analyze the Shoe wagoners and such. Then I'll come back with a vote. K, reread. Evangeline doesn't look very scummy to me. Mason kind of didn't exist the later half of the day, although, well, he did help the Gamzee lynch... hmm. Raz is ha ha, old chap! active lurking and telling people to give him a case, but RL does happen, so if he participates more today then fine.

Oh, and one thing I noticed in my reread; Steven, it's against mafia rules to edit your posts. Don't do it again. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403158.html#msg403158) If you need to edit, make a new post with the corrections stated; EWBOP, Edit By Way of Posting. Oh, err, I think I've been spelling it wrong all along... ahh ;_;

In conclusion, I'm looking at Sandor/Mason/Shannon as possible scum right now. Two of those already have pressure votes on them.

##Vote:Mason, please explain your spontaneous vote on McClane.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 09, 2010, 06:11:56 PM
A quick checkof the edit history of that post shows nothing that isn't harmless. I do appreciate you pointing it out, however. In general, folks, please do not edit your posts. This isn't directed just at Steven, it goes for everyone.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 09, 2010, 07:58:53 PM
Right, the above also leaves Evangeline, but her bad reason stuck out like a sore thumb and, honestly, at this point I feel pressuring her on it won't return a lot of results. I would still like to query why Evangeline was so sure Shoe was scum, on D1, so we have a better picture of her vote reasons.

It wasn't so much that I was 'so sure' Shoe was scum, as I think it's the nature of D1 that you can't be so sure of anything. But at the same time, that doesn't mean you should just putz around D1 without doing much of anything. The initial vote I put on her was a combination of 'Eh, that's kinda a dumb reason to attack Steven I think' combined with 'It'd be in character to get annoyed at her for that' ("I felt like it."). The person that I saw giving off the most scumtells from that point on was Shoe, so I never saw reason to change my vote. Which turned out to be in all likelihood a bunch of null-tells and some amount of confirmation bias. ;;

With the two biggest bandwagons turning into Shoe vs Gamzee, I figured they were either both town or scum/town. (I don't fathom what scum/scum would be trying to accomplish acting as the two of them did.) I was banking on scum/town, and put my chips in with Shoe because I felt her tells were the less likely of the two to be null tells. She also talked a whole lot more, so there was more material to find fault with than with Gamzee.

I'll admit, the disappearing act by Gamzee near the end cast some doubt my way, but I didn't see my case as so flimsy that i'd turn 180 over something that could be explained as coincidence. Plus she was resorting to pedantic/dodgey countermeasures to my arguments near the end there ("Link me to EVERY accusation you've EVER made against me and the proof" and "You're wrong, but I won't tell/show you how you're wrong until you tell me blablabla"),  which further made me think I made the right choice.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 09, 2010, 10:24:08 PM
Alright, having cleared my head a bit, just gonna say congrats and eat a bit of crow.  Also, while I have seen two scum get trained on Day 1 before, it was pretty damn flukey, and basically involved the scum having no say in who got trained.  While we've got proof that the scum were perfectly happy hopping onto an early Shoe train and staying there.  So, yeah, Shoe's clean.

Moving on, of the folks on Shoe's train, given it was a train of opportunity, I'm more inclined to see Evangeline's place on it as a null tell, while Sandor looks worse now.  Now that Day 2's come around, I'd really like to see some content coming from him, but...  as odd as it sounds, the timing of his vote really doesn't lend itself to a save Gamzee vote since it came right before the sudden rush.

My suspicions of Mason are still around, just...  I'm having a hard time reconciling his lack of explaination with being the one who evened things up between Gamzee and Shoe.

Instead, I'll focus on Raze and Stuff Man.  They both picked their obsessions and stuck with them, come hell or high water, giving very little information on anyone else, specifically, on either of the two main cases.  Stuff Man seems more likely to produce something, anything, so I'll stick a pressure vote on Raze to encourage him to play.

##Vote: Raze
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 10, 2010, 01:01:54 AM
I find Evangeline's reasoning acceptable. Of course I'll keep a wary eye on her, but the thought process is explicable and I can see how she arrived at her conclusion, even if I still stand by that Shoe seemed pretty harmless to me and the case on her was bogus.

That leaves me with Sandor, who I urge everyone to submit more pressure on if he maintains his pattern of behaviour where he is tight-lipped and hardly visible. I don't want to believe LAL is going to secure our way to victory, but if Gamzee is any indication, we should not give lurkers free passes. Doesn't mean the remaining scum are definitely lurkers, but it does mean they would use the lurk as a strategy.

Steven, Steven Steven, can you grace us with your presence and talk about the previous day. Who do you think is scum. I recall Gamzee attacked Shoe after she attacked you on your roleguessing excuse, I want enough out of you to determine if Gamzee was pulling chainsaw defence or attempting to get a mislynch on Shoe. (given how rubbish I think the case on Shoe was/is I am not entirely convinced you're town, after some consideration! Derp only goes so far and I definitely don't feel it's a free pass!)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 10, 2010, 02:02:15 AM
...hmm. Interesting. Seems now that Shoe's silent and Gamzee is gone, everyone's a lot more sane (and easier to read.) I could get used to this. What I can't get used to is that Silver Medal; gonna have to keep my eye on that...

Day 1 is still a cluster of headaches, however, and only gotten harder to read the more I try, but I honestly find myself agreeing with Miyako the most right now. Shannon's posts have been... bad. No, that's not quite the right word... More like... Messy. And at first, that seemed accidental. But there's just so many words, while she's saying so little. It's a bunch of useless padding, filled with cheerleading, smokescreens, fluff to make her posts look better, etc.

Not sure what you're trying to do there, John. Earlier today you say that meaningless pressure votes are bad, then you place one on me? I mean, first, it'd take more than 1 vote to really put any pressure on, and that instead seems like you're trying to get something started, because secondly, I did actually talk about the two main cases.

Agreeing with others that Mason here should provide more information on his vote for John.

Oh, and just as a heads-up, gonna be busy most of the day for the next few days, but will try to be around when I can. Hopefully will be able to contribute more; sorry about the lack of time for D1, as well.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Faiz on August 10, 2010, 02:28:34 AM
First off, I'll apologize for the editing, and I'll keep in mind not to do it again.

Following Ms. Marimi's inquiry I suppose I will share my thoughts. The first day was... stressful, to be honest, as it was difficult to understand everyone's words and actions and what their reasons might be.

My main suspicions in day one after my unvote were pointed at Ms. Evangeline McDowell. I agreed with Mr. MacStew in that Ms. McDowell appeared to be leading me into seeing that Miss Shoe was more likely to be scum than Mr. Makara was, and with the latter ending up as scum, it became a bit more suspicious. However, I didn't bring it up because I didn't feel too confident about this, and I was hoping to pursue this today as Mr. MacStew was going to do. His death overnight came as a surprise, given that it was his words that I was focusing on. I'm wondering if it was just an unusual coincidence given the circumstances, but I think that would be overthinking a bit. There was the additional fact that she had an apparent fixation on Miss Shoe; however, her recent explanation is amiable for now, so I'd like to take some time to consider it.

I'd also like to question Mr. Stuffman's preoccupation with Ms. Marimi. Besides a facetious vote at the beginning of the day and minor (seemingly paranoid) remarks to others, the majority of his posts have been made in order to interrogate Ms. Marimi, which strikes me as odd.

Mr. Mason's sudden vote towards Mr. McClane is unusual as well, but that has already been addressed multiple times, so I will wait for his explanation.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 10, 2010, 05:08:38 AM
Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (2): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi
Stone Mason (1): Sailor Moon
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): John McClane

No vote cast: Stuff Man, Shoe, Sandor Clegane, Razeluxe Meitzen, Shannon, Steven Stone

12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. There are about 47 hours left in the day.

Stuff Man, Sandor Clegane and Shannon will all be sent activity prods after I have posted this.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 10, 2010, 05:15:22 AM
##Vote: Shannon Since apparently I forgot to do that in my previous post.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Sasword on August 10, 2010, 05:43:28 AM
Well, Steven's lack of a vote is very disturbing, and all this 'taking time to consider things' and 'he may be scum but maybe he isn't' really helping.  It would be helpful for us for you to vote who is scum.  As for Sailor Moon, you said that Gamzee's points were good, but that he was exaggerating Shoe's points to make him look more scummy, which strikes me as a little off.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 10, 2010, 05:52:27 AM
As for Sailor Moon, you said that Gamzee's points were good, but that he was exaggerating Shoe's points to make him look more scummy, which strikes me as a little off.
I only said some of his points were good oh, I said "lots". Err, well, maybe I overstated that a bit. He gave a nonspecific number of good points :V But yeah, having good points doesn't make up for doing scummy things. It doesn't take many scumtells (when accurately read, of course) to identify a likely scum.

It's been a RL-day, and none of the three people nearly everyone seems to be waiting on have showed up :\
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Decade on August 10, 2010, 06:00:41 AM
Good afternoon everyone, I am sorry that I am late again.  Before I say who I think is likely to be scum I would like to address the case on myself.

Quote from: Miss Miyamura
(strangely ignoring Sailor Moon, whose vote was further back)
....I did not see anything wrong with Miss Moon's vote, so I saw no reason to mention it.  I also didn't mention Mr. MacStew's for the same reason; it just would have been silly to bring them up in my opinion.

Quote from: Miss Miyamura
Shannon prodded me and Stone, but did not follow up at all on my responses.
I would have followed up if I had finished that post, but alas the day ended before I could.  I wanted to get my vote for Gamzee out there as quickly as possible since there was still a chance that Miss Shoe could have been lynched instead when I was typing it.  While I cannot prove that I was typing my post before Miss Marimi posted, if you look at the timestamps, I posted a little more than one minute after Miss Marimi.  My post was a little over 200 words, and typing 60 words in one minute is quite fast.  That is the only proof I can offer.

I am a slow typist and thinker in general, so I was not at all surprised that I was unable to get through two pages and post my thoughts on them before the deadline.

Quote from: Miss Miyamura
Furthermore, Shannon defends Shoe and says that her scumhunting is satisfactory and trying her best, but never explains why, which strikes me as cheerleading to gain town credit.
No one ever asked me what I liked, so I assumed it was self-explanatory.  I apologize that this was unclear.  When I was reading through her posts she looked genuinely interested in finding out more about peoples' alignments.  That is, I felt like she was asking good questions, and her thoughts were coherent and easy to understand and respond to.  She simply looked transparently town to me.

In the future, if something is unclear please do not be afraid to ask me to elaborate.  I try to explain things as best I can, but when I think something is obvious I can forget to explain it throughly.

Quote from: Miss Miyamura
She votes Sandor at a critical moment where Gamzee and Shoe had 4 and 5 votes respectively, seemingly as some sort of distraction to town,
I do not scum hunt like you.  It is very possible to lynch scum on D1, so I do not believe that the purpose of D1 is to simply form some bandwagons on anyone.  My vote goes on who I think is most likely to be scum (unless it's quite clear that I won't be getting my top pick, in which case I pick whichever case I like more), and that person was Mr. Clegane.  That is all there is to it.

Quote from: Miss Marimi
Voting solely for majority seems a little weird, especially if you believe both to be town. Perhaps it's just how games are played here.
There is absolutely no reason NOT to have a majority.  Again, Lady Moriya was benevolent in not requiring the majority, but having an incomplete bandwagon hurts wagon analysis later in the game.  While it is quite clear from my words that I preferred a Mr. Makara lynch over a Miss Shoe lynch, it is much easier to see that opinion in a vote count than in a wall of text.  Put simply, since it was clear that my choice was not going to be lynched I had to choose the next best option: picking which of the cases I like more.  My vote is a weapon that I cannot afford to waste.  My vote is also a way to remain transparent, so that people can easily analyze what I am saying.

Quote from: Mr. Meitzen
And at first, that seemed accidental. But there's just so many words, while she's saying so little. It's a bunch of useless padding, filled with cheerleading, smokescreens, fluff to make her posts look better, etc.
I am definitely wordy, and I apologize for that.  However, I do not see that much fluff in my posts (beyond simple role-playing, but I try to keep that to a minimum).  From my (obviously biased) perspective, my posts are full of opinions on people.  If I am unsure of someone I make sure to question them so I can get a better read, but otherwise I thought I was quite clear.  Are there any particular quotes (not posts, exact quotes please) that give you this impression because I do not understand where you are getting this impression from?



Okay, so upon rereading I think there is at least one scum ON the Miss Shoe wagon and at least one OFF the Miss Shoe wagon AND the Mr. Makara wagon.  The reasoning for the first is quite simple: she was the counterwagon to a scum wagon.  It would be strange if scum did not push that wagon at all.  The second requires a bit more explanation.

1.) The people on the Mr. Makara wagon look good to me.  The only one that's somewhat shaky is Mr. Mason, but Mr. Makara's interactions with him make me think that he is on Lady Moriya's side.  That is, it looked like Mr. Makara was trying to discredit him while he was arguing with Miss Shoe.  Between that and the timing of his vote I do not think he is worth perusing.  I was never bothered by Miss Moon's vote, and after Miss Miyamura explained her position I was not bothered by hers either (and this was before Mr. Makara flipped scum, she looks even less suspicious now).

2.) I doubt that ALL the people on the Miss Shoe wagon are scum.  I still have very few issues with Mr. McClane's vote (in fact, just about all of my problems with him stem from him being on the wrong wagon, so I do not think he is worth pursuing today), and it....just "feels wrong" for lack of a better term, for all of them to be on one wagon.  I suppose this feeling comes from the fact that I think scum would have tried to make a different counterwagon if it didn't look like Miss Shoe's was going to get any steam?  I apologize that I can't pinpoint exactly where this gut feeling is coming from, but that is the best explanation I have right now.

3.) I find it inherently scummy to not be on one of the major wagons at the end of the day (with certain exceptions, such as not being there at the time).  As I said above, a vote is also a way to be transparent.  Even if you think both of the wagons are town, you must surely find one of them better than the other (whether that be for informational purposes, or whether you just find one person more likely to be scum than the other even if it's just by a small amount).  Scum do not want their actions and opinions to be tracked easily, so I find it more likely that scum will be off both the wagons than town (these kinds of votes are usually referred to as "throwaway votes").

Okay, so looking at the wagons my top suspects are Mr. Clegane,  Mr. Meitzen and Mr. StuffMan.

Mr. Clegane I covered yesterday and my opinion of him has not changed.  That is a horrible reason to vote for someone, and his position on the wagon looks very suspect.  Even after his explanation, it just looks like a bandwagon hop onto the scum counterwagon.  Being abrasive is not a scum tell (especially not for this person who acts like this regardless of alignment), and trying to rationalize it like it is, is simply bad.  Scum is more likely to join a counterwagon late in the day to try to prevent their buddy from being lynched.  I believe they are also more likely to try to justify it with reasoning that makes little sense because A.) they have to make up reasons to vote for townies since they know they are not scum and B.) voting with no reason will make them stand out, and people are more likely to look at baseless votes than votes with bad reasoning (just compare Mr. Mason and Mr. Clegane).

Mr. StuffMan has done....absolutely nothing.  Nothing at all.  He spent all of D1 attacking Miss Marimi with....absolutely useless logic.  I believe Miss Marimi said it best: it was just tunneling based on wordplay with no actual scum hunting.  He also tried to undermine (the now confirmed townie) Mr. MacStew with bad reasoning.  There was no reason to view the bold on the fake Miss Shoe vote as anything but aesthetics since Mr. MacStew had already said that he didn't like the Miss Shoe wagon.  In other words, Mr. StuffMan's actions were basically active lurking, trying to call people scum for reasons that make no sense (since when was putting your vote on the person you thought was most likely to be scum a bad thing?), and trying to undermine a now confirmed townie.  Scum is more likely to active lurk because it makes them look active without actually saying anything.  If they do not say anything they cannot be held accountable for anything later, and they can change their opinion at the drop of a hat, so scum wants to post as little as possible.  I already explained why voting on bad reasoning is bad, and scum want to undermine townies so that people will be less likely to listen to them.

Mr. Meitzen has also been active lurking, and I don't like that he posted when there was little time left in the day, but did not join either of the major wagons.  It was quite clear that Miss Miyamura was not going to be lynched, so there was absolutely no reason to stay on her.  That vote was also a RVS vote, which is absolutely meaningless.  It's even more meaningless than staying off both wagons when you have at least made a decent case on someone!  His post today has essentially been rehash and a voteless ninja, bandwagon hop.  I believe I have covered why I think these things are more likely to be done by scum. 

I am also still suspicious of Miss McDowell, but I can't figure out why.  So, I do not find her worth pursuing until I can figure that out.

I apologize for all the words, but there have been complaints that I am not clear enough on why I find things scummy.  I....I do not believe I can get any clearer than this if I tried.  If something is still unclear I will do my best to elaborate though.

##Vote Sandor Clegane
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: W on August 10, 2010, 06:32:49 AM
Got my prod and there's a whole lot of stuff to read through still.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 10, 2010, 02:33:54 PM
(The following is completely roleplay and really has no bearing on the game)
/me stumbles in looking a little worse for wear

OH! You would not BELIEVE the day I had yesterday! OK, so, a little background, there's the god like thing in the plane created by the plane creation engine incident who calls himself Schroedinger. And you know what that JACKASS did to me? I was wandering through and he STUCK ME IN A BOX! Oh, and not just any ordinary box, it was a box with an anti-magic field! So obviously I'm mostly trapped, but it gets worse. This jerk actually wires some POISON to the thing! I swear, Schroedinger's cat is supposed to be a THOUGHT experiment! Either way, he actually gets the thing to go off, and I think I'm done for, but fortunately I roll a 20 on my fort save and the poison doesn't affect me. He lets me out at some point after doing some weird epic magic to the box, and I claw his face. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to do a lot. Either way, I'm sorry about yesterday's absence, but it was kinda out of my control. Also, if you see Schroedinger can we lynch him?

(Roleplay portion over)

I'll admit, I am kicking myself REALLY HARD over dropping the Gamzee case. I feel utterly stupid for that. Further, I'm going to have to apologize for my late D1 behavior, because McDowell IS right about how it objectively looked. Flat out, I was being anti town just because I was sick of the people attacking me with flimsy reasoning, and ignoring my subsequent questions. So, I engaged in a little intentionally anti town play. This doesn't reflect well on me, and there's no excuse for it. For one who professes to be above their emotions, I sure let them get to me. Either way, at this juncture there's no real need to get into an argument about my play yesterday with Evangaline, I'll probably go a little stream of consciousness here since I have catching up to do.

I'll state that as of the end of D1, I still maintain someone defending me is scum. But I also remain convinced there is one scum on my wagon, and it's likely out of Evangaline, Sandor, or Steven. I'll admit that I'm not looking forward to the reread required to find the defending scum, so I'm currently content to focus on those three, though of course if something stands out today I'll gladly explore it. I do note that Shannon appears to be the top suspect for the scum within the defending Shoe bloc. I...can't say I'm too opposed to this, just not sure how much in favor of it I am. I recall getting bad feelings from Shannon's first wall, but couldn't find anything to justify them.

Anyway, starting from D2, I'm going to say Roddy was the only logical kill for scum. I was turning it over in my mind while I was stuck in the box.

Sue Wacko's notice is also noted, and I'll state I'm trying :3c.

Oh, right, there are a couple clarifications needed. This account is in a different time zone from my normal one. What confused me was the time difference, and I mistakenly was using my home time to calculate deadline as opposed to this account's time. That...probably explains at least some of the deadline errors. Honestly though, that post was careless and made more to get you rather than get scum. Again, lapse of reason. I don't necessarily think you are town, but I'd have to actually coolly analyze your posts to get an accurate case.

McLane brings up a good point about Stone Mason. The swing vote tell is pretty strong, but I'd really like reasoning for votes to surface in the future. Saki seems to have pretty solidly the right of it, but again, I caution you NOT to forget those defending me, for surely there's scum there. I'd also like to state that Gamzee had some terrible reasoning as well, and turned out to be scum. He was, of course, also rather hypocritical, which I'm not completely sure I'm seeing from Evangaline at this point.

@Sailor Moon: While Mason's reasoning leaves much to be desired, how do you plan to counteract the fact he was the swing vote onto a scum wagon? While I know the tell can be faked, it's still dangerous to do.

@Evangaline: You probably need to reassess your scumtells. Or even better yet, don't purely rely on "scumtells" and look more for scum intent. But that's just playstyle proselytizing :3c.However, quantitative scumtells are really dangerous, since you yourself admit that I posted more, so more was "wrong" with my posts. Generally a purely quantitative scumtell based analysis is going to tell you the most active player is scum. Or one of the most active, anyway :P.

@McClane: What leads you to the conclusion Stuff Man will produce more than Raze?

@Saki: Actually, this dovetails amazingly into what I was saying to Evangaline. A lot of people do quantitative scumhunting, so the more posts you make, the more likely you are to look scummy. LAL does work for a reason, but it works best combined with checking for scum intent in the posts that are made. Also, chainsaw actually came to mind D1 (but really couldn't be used without flips for obvious reasons), which is why I've reopened the door to Steven-scum.

@Razel: I'm gonna catch flack for this since it's borderline rolefishing, but I'm going to state that your denial of the Silver Medal looks slightly suspicious, since you are the one most recently admitting to suspecting Miyako. Also, at this point, I would think the Silver Medal is more likely town, but that's just a gut feeling. I also figured it was you who made it, but may I assume you're denying it here?

And wait, wait, WAIT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403414.html#msg403414). What happened to this!?

Further, that post reads more as if you intentionally hung back D1, whereas your latest post reads more as if you had no choice. While the two are not mutually exclusive, it feels odd and I'd like it elucidated. Honestly, this entire post reads quite a bit in contradiction of your prior one. While you have the right to change your mind, I don't see the dots connecting yet.

Steven's post is waffle upon IIoA. It doesn't say anything. Could you take a more solid stance please?

Shannon has a lot of words, which rather hypocritically I'm glazing over. I read the post once and don't recall it bugging me. Still not sure what to make of her.

And, caught up.

Yeah, I'm not really convinced Sandor isn't scum, so ##Vote Sandor.

[moriya]Cleanup in Aisle 5 completed[/moriya]
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 10, 2010, 04:55:28 PM
@Shannon: Yeah, the reason I take issue with you voting for that reason is that... it's now proven your vote is a useless vote on a scumtrain. It wasn't necessary to place it as Shoe was already out of danger of ever reaching a majority, and no one was further expressing sentiments to swing to a Shoe train. Your motivation foremost seems to be that you wanted to be on the train so you could be proven to be on the scum train, which almost looks like scum trying to get town cred, honestly.

I haven't read your wall-of-text aside from the reply to me, so I'll get to reading that in a bit. Just wanted to throw that at you so you can consider where I'm coming from.

Steven, vote for who you think is scum pls.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 10, 2010, 05:39:06 PM
Quote
@Sailor Moon: While Mason's reasoning leaves much to be desired, how do you plan to counteract the fact he was the swing vote onto a scum wagon? While I know the tell can be faked, it's still dangerous to do.
Yes, this is a pretty good point in his favor. It's just that at the same time, there's so much about him that's bad. I'd like to at least explore this avenue, to keep bases covered. On that note, my vote is more for pressure then a want to him lynched more then my other two suspects, but they already had votes and a list of people waiting for their response. Being the swing vote probably made him the lowest priority of my suspects.

Shannon's post satisfies me, for now at least. I'll work on my other two suspects. Err, both of which still haven't posted, which doesn't really make them look any better.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 10, 2010, 05:52:17 PM
There's still something about Shannon that puts me off in her last post, but I can't put my finger on it. I think it's the repeated "scum would most likely do ______" and the ascribing so much importance on votes giving transparency when it's really the voting pattern that does that.

For now i'm going to add more pressure to Sandor. Though I can't dismiss the possibility that he's indeed had real life things getting in the way of Mafia, i'm also ~100% sure I know who he is and that he's not a nublet. So that leaves out one possible explanation to his behavior in my mind.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sandor Clegane

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 10, 2010, 05:52:49 PM
EBWOP: Oops, forgot the bold.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sandor Clegane
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 10, 2010, 05:59:24 PM
Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (2): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (4): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (1): Sailor Moon
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): John McClane

No vote cast: Stuff Man, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone

12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. There are about 34 hours left in the day.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 10, 2010, 07:24:21 PM
(As I have a tendency to ramble when I have the time for it, I'll bold the things I find important/not just me rambling)

I'm honestly not sure where you're getting the impression that I was forced to hang back from the two trains yesterday, Shoe. I saw all the cases leading up to what made you and Gamzee trains, and didn't like any of them. I Purposefully hung back yesterday. I may not have been able to read all of the arguments for either side, but I did get to read a decent amount, and didn't find active scumtells. I will stand by that I thought you were both town. And I will actively avoid voting Town, even if they're the only options for the day, because we're supposed to be scumhunting. A vote is a tool that is easily tracked, and, IMHO, should only be placed where you believe there to be scum. You can hold this against me if I start voting someone purely because of train nonsense, too. Also, I mentioned the Silver Medal because I noticed it, and it seems to count as a vote. That is a dangerous tool, and something worth keeping an eye on, no?

Shannon, maybe you could quote what's so bad about my posts. Because, if I'm not mistaken, I'm the only one (sans Shoe) to mention the Medal, and I point suspicion (admittedly not much, and I do apologize if it wasn't clear) towards John. Although I will be blunt: I was getting that impression from all of your posts. Every part of them. Even the latest one, despite it being a cleaner read. Too many words, and I'll admit to being naturally suspect of mass-quoting, since that's an easy to way to look like you have a lot more to say than you really do. Combine this with your excessive use of words (something Shoe is/was almost as guilty of as you) and it's a bad combination. Pure and simple. My vote is not there for any sort of bandwagon, it is there because you are the scummiest person I've seen today.  Also, how am I active lurking? Please explain this. Active lurking is where someone doesn't post much, and when they do, they don't actually say anything. Point out a single one of my posts where I have contributed nothing. Just one. (Except the one where I had bullet-points, because that was me going "this is a giant mess that I can barely read, and you guys all seem to be hunting people for newbie mistakes")

Need to go, but you can kick me if I don't try to follow up on what Shoe was saying about a scum defending him/her, since that seems interesting.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 10, 2010, 07:27:04 PM
EBWOP: Seconding Shoe on scum intent >>> quantity of scumtell. Too easy to be trapped by small things, and then freak out when you're put over the fire, and only make more. It's a bad trap, and one that scum benefits from, not town.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: W on August 10, 2010, 08:00:15 PM
Yesterday was a mess but with regards to my take on Roddy's int-the-text-vote, the game is role-madness bastard mod from what I recall of the game info. If someone makes a strange move, I take in the possibility that it does something.

Quote from: John #135
Also, having read your (Shoe) posts, well.  If you're uneasy about Gamzee, join me on Mason.  I think the dirt on him is as hard as we're going to get today.  Sangor, reads less like a lurker and more like a guy who hates day 1, so I'm really watching for what he does Day 2 to make up my mind on him.

At the time of this, John was voting Stone Mason, Gamzee was at 4 and Shoe on 3 votes. Shoe pushed Gamzee to 5, a clear leader for lynching by that stage. I think this is an attempt to spring a rival wagon, especially when John was playing up Shoe's uncertainty to gather support.

Looks like I'm also going to have to back off.  Reviewed the Gamzee case, and it seems to be "Last person on a weak case" which I just can't stand behind.  So, it'll be going back to Shoe for me.

##Unvote: Mason, ##Vote: Shoe

And then this vote to make it Shoe at 4 votes and Gamzee at 5. I don't see John being as clean as you guys feel he is, these 2 actions make John a pick for scum in light of the flip.

Still with the 5-4 voting, Saki's vote secured the lynch. I think if Saki was scum, she would have just not voted and hoped someone evens out the wagons. Shannon's vote afterwards doesn't pack a lot of motivation. Given that deadline lynching was allowed and that she didn't like either wagons, why not elaborate on who she did want lynched? She claimed to be short on time, but just a show of names would have been enough to grab interest.

Quote from: Steven Stone #180
I'd also like to question Mr. Stuffman's preoccupation with Ms. Marimi. Besides a facetious vote at the beginning of the day and minor (seemingly paranoid) remarks to others, the majority of his posts have been made in order to interrogate Ms. Marimi, which strikes me as odd.

I thought there was something wrong with Saki so I follow through with my suspicions. Why would that be odd?

Quote from: Shannon #185
There is absolutely no reason NOT to have a majority.  Again, Lady Moriya was benevolent in not requiring the majority, but having an incomplete bandwagon hurts wagon analysis later in the game.  While it is quite clear from my words that I preferred a Mr. Makara lynch over a Miss Shoe lynch, it is much easier to see that opinion in a vote count than in a wall of text.  Put simply, since it was clear that my choice was not going to be lynched I had to choose the next best option: picking which of the cases I like more.  My vote is a weapon that I cannot afford to waste.  My vote is also a way to remain transparent, so that people can easily analyze what I am saying.

Your descriptions were brief and it didn't look like you had much redeeming things to say for Gamzee's defense. Of course, if you defended him too hard, it would reflect badly on you today. The fact that you voted, even when it wasn't necessary and then use wagon analysis about the people off Gamzee's wagon, you had to set yourself up an escape clause.

Getting through the rest of Shannon's post felt like wading through goo. Drop the unnecessary details and RP because I'm sure that's a portion of the padding that makes everyone glaze over.

Yesterday I would have liked to make it in time to hammer as it grants me a second vote if I do, but it's not a necessary thing to try get and I'll place my vote the moment I'm ready.

##Vote Shannon (L-2)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Faiz on August 10, 2010, 08:03:54 PM
All right, it seems my biggest problem is being overcautious and unwilling to vote. I suppose I'll have to try and fix this, even though I don't feel too comfortable about it.

The case against Mr. Clegane is reasonable, but unfortunately the same case can be used to implicate me, so I'm not sure what I can think about that. After considering it for a moment, I've realized that at this point my only reason to vote him would only be to put pressure on, and I feel that there is plenty of pressure on him already, so I will just await his response.

I am unsure what my stance is on Ms. McDowell as of now. Her actions on day one were highly suspicious, yet today's explanation seems to make enough sense for it. However, I'm assuming that this is more overcautiousness, so I will take a risk for now.

##Vote: Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 10, 2010, 08:11:56 PM
Quote
##Vote Shannon (L-2)
I think you were looking at the wrong person in the votecount :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 10, 2010, 08:24:57 PM
Raze, my main point is actually that there's a large difference between a vote with no reasoning behind it, and a vote with reasoning behind it.  One has something to argue against, which will lead to discussion that'll help piece together which side you're on.  The other, there's nothing to say.  It just is.

Shoe, I was more expecting Stuffman to talk because of past performance.  He may not have talked much about anyone besides Saki, but he talked a lot, while when Raze did speak it was usually a pretty simply "I don't like your cases" with no details beyond that.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Den-O on August 10, 2010, 08:33:02 PM
So much for the Shoe case.  To those asking why I was so focused on Shoe and no one else, it's because I was seeing red at that point and didn't want to believe that Shoe's play could be anything but a scum gambit.  Was being rushed, didn't have time to take more time to look at other players, so I posted the most obvious observation.  By "scum gambit," I mean that I thought I saw scum intent in the way she was stirring up shit.  Didn't think that a town-Shoe could possibly believe that that was helpful to town, especially after all the flak she's taken for that playstyle in the past.  It's because of her meta, not despite it.  Disappointing as it is, I've got to admit that it's really really unlikely that she's scum at this point and move on.

Can't really blame the people riding on my wagon at the moment, though I'm going to be online all day today, so if you want to grill me, this is the time.  As for who I think is scum, I'm not sold on the idea that there were scum pushing for Shoe's lynch.  Shoe was digging her own grave, and I think the critical point here was that there couldn't have been a competing possible-scum wagon that scum was trying to prevent, not until Shoe already had most of her votes on her, because no one else had had more than a couple of votes on him by that point.  Scum might've been on Shoe by pure chance, but her case didn't have any of the hallmarks of a scum-pushed lynch by that point in the day.

Then the Gamzee case came out of nowhere.  After the post #93 votecount, scum would've realized that they were in danger of being lynched.  The wagons were even at that point.  The actions that catch my attention there are John McClane jumping off and then back on the Shoe wagon (not sure what to make of that), and Steven Stone jumping on and then back off, which looks to me like a real bandwagon-swinger.

Saki and Shannon jumped on Gamzee at the last minute, but as has been said, Gamzee was fairly certain to get lynched by that point, especially by the time of Shannon's vote.  Can't call that scummy by itself.  People jump on at the end of trains all the time just to cement them. I need to do a lot of re-reading to evaluate the other cases out there, but I just got back here for the first time since the start of the day and I want to get my impressions out there.

For now, voting Steven Stone for looking to me like the most obvious attempt to save Gamzee.

##Vote: Steven Stone

And I'll say this one more time.  IF YOU WANT TO GRILL ME, DO IT NOW, 'CAUSE I'M HERE ALL DAY FOR ONCE!

Cut by 4 replies, posting anyway.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 10, 2010, 08:54:56 PM
/me sighs

OK, I'll be honest here. I am suffering from horrible confirmation bias on Sandor because he pisses me off that much. It's hypocritical as hell for me to say this, but his condescending posting asserting terrible reasons (in my eyes), and still being rather unapologetic for them makes me want to lynch him REALLY BADLY. I'm certain we will not agree on this point, and I'd like to avoid getting in a huge fight about it. I guess my best bet is to go with "I'm trying to back the fuck off, can you please be a little less condescending?"

Anyway, after 15 minutes of meditation, and some coolheaded refreshing of some simple spells, I can allow my intelligence to prevail. Basically, Sandor's post rubs me as neutral. The worst I can find is it feels a lot like Steven is being used as a scapegoat by him, and that he seems intent on making it seem like my lynch wasn't pushed by scum. (I will, however, note Gamzee's position on the wagon implies otherwise if I remember correctly, which it's quite possible I don't. He was second, right?) Since I already do have a scum read on him since I do feel that his actions speak of scum intent, regardless of what I think of his attitude, his post has not persuaded me to change my vote. I do realize I have to be aware of my bias and think past it, because I know my attitude is very colored and if I were voting him solely for irritation, I'd be guilty of the same things I accuse him of.

Anyway, Raze, the reason it feels like you were forced is because you say you were busy D1, but one of your posts says you were hanging back (I forget if it was the earlier or later one). You also don't adequately explained what changed with Miyako. Could you elucidate that for me? Also, going to say that your playstyle deprives town of information. That doesn't make you scum in and of itself, but it makes me more weary of you. Hopefully the votes you DO make will ease this discomfort.


@Stuff Man: What about...Miyako I think? It was Miyako or Saki, who also pushed a secondary wagon at about T-6.5. I agree that John's looks worse given the target, but I'm curious about what you think of the other weird late day votes.

@Steven: The problem with your posting is you contradict yourself every paragraph. Even when you vote, you're saying it in such a way that hedges your bets. I'd prefer you to take more solid stances and own your positions. It makes you seem less shifty. Only reason I'm not jumping on you for it is I read you as newb town at this time.

@John: Checks out.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Den-O on August 10, 2010, 10:29:20 PM
I'm only restating the points because people are saying they want my reasoning.  If you see where I'm coming from, then I'll drop it.

As for Steven Stone being a scapegoat, I know that he's clearly a newb and all, and of course I'm considering his newbiness a nulltell here.  All I'm saying is that his timing looks really really suspicious. 

And as for the Shoe case D1 being "scum-pushed," I'm doing a re-read and here's how I see it.  Shoe was basically the first case of the day, and she got four votes really quickly.  There's no reason for scum to pick out Shoe for death early in the day and stick all their necks out with coordinated action when there were any number of other townie bandwagons that might get started up.  Once Gamzee appeared as a rival wagon, yeah, of course scum would have a vested interest in seeing Shoe lynched instead, but any votes placed before that point are nulltell.

So.  WHY IS IT THAT AS SOON AS I'M FINALLY HERE PEOPLE STOP POSTING!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Skull on August 11, 2010, 12:37:08 AM
That Clegane fellow there, you are saying scum may be hiding in others trying to build up wagons that were apart from the two main ones: Shoe vs Gamzee

Would you kindly take a look at other players who were trying to do this? I would like to get your perspective on others' actions, myself included.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 11, 2010, 12:51:31 AM
Hey Mason, are you ever going to elaborate on your McClane vote, which me and several others have expressed interest in?

I still don't like Sandor. His points for the Shoe wagon not being scum-pushed at first (for example, when his vote was put on) make sense, but at the same time, his jump onto the Shoe wagon still looks bad; plus, convincing people Shoe's wagon wasn't scumdriven would be beneficial for him and/or any scum on said wagon. I could see him being town as well now, but I still currently find him as the scummiest. Mason is creeping up a bit, but him being the swing vote makes it difficult for me to really want his lynch.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 11, 2010, 01:16:11 AM
I'm satisfied with Sandor's response at the moment. At least, more satisfied than I am with Steven now, after getting tipped off to do some digging.

After the post #93 votecount, scum would've realized that they were in danger of being lynched.  The wagons were even at that point.  The actions that catch my attention there are John McClane jumping off and then back on the Shoe wagon (not sure what to make of that), and Steven Stone jumping on and then back off, which looks to me like a real bandwagon-swinger.

For Steven Stone, it only *looks* like a real bandwagon-swinger. Shoe's vote was sitting on you, and it was clear that her vote was a virtual vote on the Gamzee bandwagon since she said that she's go on Gamzee if the Sandor bandwagon didn't pick up steam.. So at the time of the Steven's vote on Shoe, you could consider both to be at L-3. John's unvote is the REAL bandwagon swinger..

Heck, you could consider Shoe to have an even bigger lead, if you consider Saki as a virtual vote too (since I believe she made it clear that she preferred Gamzee's wagon well over Shoe's).  So at the time of John's unvote, you could consider the Gamzee bandwagon as leading by 2 votes. At that point, Steven unvotes.



Also, I think I just discovered a potentially big scumtell slip implicating Steven: Gamzee potentially letting slip that he knew Steven was a new player before it was outed.

BuT MaN I'M NoT FeElInG MuCh fUcKiN GoOdEr AbOuT ShOe, YoU KnOw? A LoT Of tHe pArTs oF ShOe's pOsTs aRe aLl sTrAiGhT Up wEiRd fUcKiN PaRaGrApHs oF In-cHaRaCtEr fLuFf tHaT DoN'T AcTuAlLy cOnTaIn  MuCh cOnTeNt, HeR BlUrB On eVaNgElInE BaReLy aCtUaLlY GoT AnYtHiNg aCrOsS AsIdE FrOm a bUnCh oF RpG ShIt. AsIdE FrOm tHaT, jOhN McClAnE PrEtTy mUcH HiT ThE NaIl oN ThE FuCkIn hEaD HeRe, LyNcHiNg sOmEbOdY FoR BaD PlAy iS MoThErFuCkIn sTuPiD, jUsT BeCaUsE ThEy aReN'T AlL ChIlL WiTh tHeIr gAmE YeT DoEsN'T MeAn tHeY ArE AcTuAlLy sCuM

Important part bolded. Before it was ever 'outed' that Steven Stone was a new player, Gamzee already seemed to know and was incorporating it into his defense of Steven at the same time he hopped onto Shoe's bandwagon. Saying "aren't chill with their game yet" implies bad play due to inexperience from not having played much before, and more importantly Gamzee's knowledge of this inexperience. There's a difference between saying someone is derpy/bad player, and new.

Later, Gamzee pushes Steven's noobiness to the front of his defense, which people seem to accept as a good explanation:

@ ShOe: BrO, i rEaLlY CaNt sEe nO FuCkIn sCuMmY InTeNt iN StEvE'S PoSt, JuSt nUlL TeLlS AlL Up aRoUnD. HiS BlUrB AbOuT MaSoNs aCtUaLlY SeEmS MoRe lIkE An oVeRcAuTiOuS NeWbIe tO Me tHaN ScUm aTtEmPtInG To rAiLrOaD Us iNtO OuTiNg oR DiScUsSiNg rOlEs, EvEn iF It wAs uNnEsSeCaRy aS MoThErFuCk.

While we may be able to universally agree that Steven is a new player, it's more than possible that scum could use this to their advantage (or at least mitigate the weakness of having a new person on their team). Using newness as a buffer to dismiss feelings of scumminess towards him.



So here's my theory of ScumSteven:

1. Steven makes the mistake of randomly mentioning accomplices and roles in RVS phase, attracting some ire from Shoe and puzzlement from others.
2. Gamzee defends Steven's from shoe by playing up the derp and newness. Tells Steven to lurk for a while so things can blow over, and people can associate Steven with 'new player'. And bonus, if a bandwagon forms on Shoe as a result of the chainsaw defense, all the better.
3. Steven decloaks and comes in at an opportune time to even out the bandwagons. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403024.html#msg403024)
4. In response to questioning, he cites reasons (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403074.html#msg403074) like  'I wasn't aware that it wasn't a good thing to wait to post my suspicions or make a vote' and " the only vote Shoe made was towards me, because I was being stupid and playing badly. " Playing the noob card again.
5. Once John unvotes Shoe, Gamzee could be considered leading the bandwagon by two at this point (counting Saki and Shoe's virtual votes at least). At this point, Steven hops off Shoe to save face, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403158.html#msg403158) since if Gamzee is flipped Shoe is obvTown. Plays up the noobness even more here: " I'm not too experienced at spotting liars or deceit, and at this point I can't see anything definitively wrong with anyone." Hell, I even called him out at that point for saying Shoe had the best case on her, immediately before unvoting.
6. Notice he still leaves the option of his vote open at the end of the post, with "There's approximately four hours left and I'm at a loss as to what I can do." This is just begging for the opportunity of using someone else's lead as a scapegoat.


It troubles me that it's so easy to dismiss Steven's actions as noob nulltells, and i'm sure that his vibe of inexperience is enhanced by the fact that he actually *is* new.  But what else is there aside from the noob defense that's keeping us from lynching him right now? I'm drawing a blank.

##Vote: Steven Stone
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Den-O on August 11, 2010, 03:44:40 AM
I FORGOT TO MENTION IN MY POST THAT, YES, THE WHOLE REASON GAMZEE AND SHOE WERE FIGHTING WAS THAT GAMZEE WAS CHAINSAWING FOR STEVEN!  Argh.

Regarding who the bandwagon swinger was, I think that by the same way that you say that Shoe's vote might as well have been on Gamzee, you can also say that McClane's vote was unlikely to stay off Shoe except in the unlikely event of his own pet case taking off.  Hypotheticals aside, Steven's vote was at least placed at a critical time.

I've just gotten done with my first full, leisurely re-read of the game, and I'm feeling a bit more solid on where I stand on everyone now.  My notes:

Raxeluxe's #79 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402139.html#msg402139) bugs me because he basically just manages to sidestep...  everything, really.  Empty advice and some predictions about where scum are that apparently come straight from his crystal ball.  Predictions like "You'll find 1 scum on this train and 1 scum on either this train or this one" sit really really poorly with me, 'cause there's really no way to know how many scum are in a given group.  You can do a little tiny bit of guesswork based on what scum's strategy as a whole might be, but that's only if they're being stupid and coordinating strategies, and you shouldn't rely on that.  Townies shouldn't even be thinking along those lines, except in the most basic sense of "Maybe scum had agreed to bus beforehand?" or something.  The only way to reliably find scum is individually.

The way that he manages to remain irrelevant afterwards only makes him look worse.  If you're really so experienced at mafia to be giving advice, you should know that this isn't the way to help town.  And if you know that this isn't the way to help town, then you shouldn't be doing it unless you're scum.

Hard to tell whether bussing was a factor in Gamzee's lynch, but as has been said, Stone Mason's switch looks least convincing.  Wouldn't support lynching him at this point 'cause there's people who weren't lynching scum that we should look at first, but it's something to be noted.  I want to see him explain his actions today more, too.

Stuffman's tunneling on Saki started looking to me less like scumhunting and more like he was looking for some excuse to park his vote on her early on Day 1.  Worthy of noting as others have done, but falls into more "weird" and "unhelpful" than scummy for me.  Don't have any issues with him today so far.

Getting to Shannon, I definitely see the complaints about her.  Major hypocrisy in saying that everyone should have their vote on a major wagon, when hers came too late to make any difference at all.  Makes the normally irrelevant vote on Gamzee at the end of the day look more like she's scum trying to make herself look better.  I don't like the way that her post at the end of the day seems to be lining up lynches, either, riling people up to purge the Shoe wagon.  Planning too far ahead with lynches looks like scum trying to lock things down and reach a predictable endgame.

I could get behind a Shannon lynch or a Razeluxe lynch today.  Sticking with Steven Stone at the moment because I find his direct connections with Gamzee more important than the isolated scummy play from the other two.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 11, 2010, 04:05:30 AM
Vote Chart
 
Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (3): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (3): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (1): Sailor Moon
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Steven Stone
Steven Stone (2): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
 
No vote cast: No one!
 
12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. There are about 24 hours left in the day.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 11, 2010, 05:33:42 AM
Speaking of Raxeluxe's #79:

- Bad play (newb play) is a null tell, pure and simple. Anybody who tries to argue otherwise is just smokescreening, and likely scum, since seriously what could ever convince you that bad play is a tell in either direction.

Definitely something to keep in mind if Steven flips scum, as this piece of advice seems to be overdoing it. Also, not a big fan of  "Real life comes before game, so don't read into my active lurking kthx" found throughout Raxeluxe's posts, or the "sorry, but i'll be gone most of the day for the next few days" bit.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 11, 2010, 08:49:46 AM
Congratulations, you two, on finding my post from before I'd even really managed to get into the game and all I had was guesswork and assumptions based on experience from previous games. Want a cookie? Still unimpressed with people trying to pin me because I can't be around all the time. At least you're trying to find something actually wrong about my posts, Sandor, so props to you for that, though I hope you don't mind me pointing out how incredibly weak a combined argument of having my assumptions be stated as truths (which I will apologize for, but as I've stated before, I genuinely dislike how hard it was to read/catch up D1, so I hope you'll excuse me for being a little flippant) and me not being able to be around and be more helpful is. Especially given how much there was to read through on D1. Seriously.

And John, if you'd like to actually talk about one of the current cases/make your own? That'd be lovely.

Shoe: I never had a strong case against Miyako, it was just the strongest one I had throughout D1. I feel I have a stronger case now, and have followed through on it.


Anyway, as promised, read through people defending Shoe: - Sailor Moon gives off a serious vibe of knowing more than she should, but I can't tell if that's purely Meta, since she seems to be the first one to point out Shoe's towniness and seems to be able to tell who has the account, despite them falling into a "MotK tradition of ultimately lynching derptown." Also seems to chainsaw Gamzee to help Shoe with some... so-so reasoning. Doesn't feel strong enough for a chainsaw, is my only real problem with the reasoning, since D1 is D1. Being second on Gamzee has me leaning towards crazy Meta powers, however.

- Miyako faintly protects Shoe, but mostly is calling for Gamzee's head. Nothing to really point out here; is third on Gamzee.

- Stone Mason just seems to have bad play, dropping things left, right, and center to say "Look at me! I'm Town! Shoe even says it, yup." (In fact, one quote is, "You are correct however, I have a Town alignment." while talking to Shoe) This is made even worse by the fact that he's the one who ties things up, claiming it as "pressure." Erg. Not liking this whatsoever.

- Shannon has been done over and over and over. Moving on.

- Way later, after some pseudo-defense by Saki (which was more of pointing out flaws in a case and pursuing that person than actually defending Shoe), Sailor Moon comes in saying that Shoe's reluctance to actually vote Gamzee isn't really that bad, despite admitting to very good reasons for why she should have voted Gamzee. Derp.

Taking a break here to point out Saki's post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403046.html#msg403046) which actually begins with a decent point against Steven Stone, and combined with the possibility of him purposefully playing up the newbiness (which I've noticed he only starts doing after people start defending him for it) I'd say that's a pretty serious strike against him, as that looks more like stretching for a case than an honest mistake.


- Blah, blah, more pseudo-defense by Saki via tearing apart weak cases... Oh, and Stone's unvote post (recently been linked, unless my memory fails me that badly) is INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS HOLY CRAP. I can't... there's just too much to even talk about there. Bah. Also kinda funny how Shoe is mentioned at least once in... I think every post on page 5?

And that was everything I saw in terms of defending Shoe. Ugh, need sleep, will re-read and analyze what I've said tomorrow morning, though Steven and Stone Mason are looking pretty terrible, with Sailor Moon being a little eh from the re-read. (Bookmarking this post so I can be sure I see it)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: W on August 11, 2010, 09:28:29 AM
You people with similar looking names confuse me. My vote is still on Shannon, L-minus number is wrong only.

Saki's alternative wagon starter did not fall back on one of the major wagons of the day. Saki was actively pressuring Steven whether or not a post came, it reminds people why she's voting the guy.

Quote from: John
I'll just say this.  You say six hours isn't enough time.  I say I've seen a man stop a train at L-1, and get a man at no votes lynched in fifteen minutes.  In rules that said that there would be no lynch if there wasn't majority lynch.  And I also say that Stone Mason's jack all is the worst looking thing in the field right now.  Though, if it doesn't stick, well, just like you, I've got a major train to fall back on that I just happen to agree with.

John posting something like this reads to me that he wasn't fully into his case. Come Day 2, how does Stone Mason measure up in John's books?

Quote from: Evangeline
Important part bolded. Before it was ever 'outed' that Steven Stone was a new player, Gamzee already seemed to know and was incorporating it into his defense of Steven at the same time he hopped onto Shoe's bandwagon. Saying "aren't chill with their game yet" implies bad play due to inexperience from not having played much before, and more importantly Gamzee's knowledge of this inexperience. There's a difference between saying someone is derpy/bad player, and new.

I don't regard Gamzee outing Steven as a noob to be a valid basis for deriving him as scum. I was the first person to sign up for the game (submitted my role to Suwako months ago), the signups are in chronological order as far as I can tell. It ws blurted elsewhere that the person behind Steven would be playing and he had no idea of how to play. Basically a whole lot of people knew who he was and that he was new.  You're really making some huge stretches to say that Steven's day end actions were because of Gamzee's coaching.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 11, 2010, 09:49:06 AM
WARNING: SAKI'S PLAYER RAMBLES ON, WALL OF TEXT (I'm even trying to be concise!)

OK, finally read Shannon's post in its entiriety. The post doesn't have any fluff or much roleplay to it (trust me on the latter), so it's a lot of opinions and relevant stuff. There's more disagreements vis-a-vis playstyle but honestly, it looks like everyone's playstyle here differs from my usual modus operandi massively so I'm going to stop using that as an excuse.

I immediately (belatedly) disagree with Shannon's "majority for lynch is always good" and saying that you should lynch your preferred target also for informational purposes. Uh, no. If you are sure both trains are town, do what Razeluxe did: keep off the trains. I was sure Shoe's train was rubbish and I didn't want to see him lynched, and that's why I voted Gamzee. So far, happy to see better cases this Day, so D1 was just really D1.

As for now, I'm finding Shannon troublesome because she keeps insisting her vote on Gamzee, motivated by "majority lynch", just seems downright odd now that Gamzee has flipped Scum. It'd look like Town derping it up if Gamzee flipped Town, but it looks really weird now that Gamzee is Scum. Do I want to lynch her? No, not immediately.

Sandor, who was my prime target today, has... shaped up. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on him yet. At one hand I definitely think the attack on Shoe was terrible, but most everyone's was at that point, including Evangeline's. His attack on Steven reeks of attacking the easiest target, as Shoe was D1 (entire case was derp so why not add more derp?), but it's easily one of the more pronounced ones on Steven. The other hand thinks that it's understandable to vote Shoe if you get the train of thought for all that I disagree with it; I see how you arrived at the idea but I think it's wrong. Hrng. I think I'll let it slide for now until he does other weird stuff.

@Steven:
Quote
However, I didn't bring it up because I didn't feel too confident about this, and I was hoping to pursue this today as Mr. MacStew was going to do. His death overnight came as a surprise, given that it was his words that I was focusing on.

Why are you surprised someone who you feel was clear and understandable died? Those are some of the biggest threats for scum, I think. Why do you think it's necessary to state just how important McStew was to you?

Why would you express surprise at McStew dying? It's logical to me. He seemed pretty smart, had an idea of what was going on and was definitely not one of the derpy players at D1.

For that matter Steven, how are you "taking a risk" by voting Evangeline? Why do you feel the need to highlight the similarities for why people vote Clegane and why we could vote you?


Definitely not too happy with Sailor Moon much either. Drops the vote on Mason, then talks about how Sandor-looks-bad-but-I-don't-want-to-lynch... OK, so who do you want to lynch right here, right now, given the power? I disagree that votes are everything, I want stated intent, too, so give it to us straight now.

OK, so like D1 this is just awesome and there's so many avenues to pursue I don't know where to begin. I... think I want to begin here.

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: Stone Mason


I want you to post more, Stone Mason, and address the issues others raised. I want more information out of this lot because there's too much lurking going on and we need to get on the ball here. The lurk hurts town and I will vote who hurts town.

Gonna reread Shannon and Razeluxe as it seems they're interesting today too, but I probably won't want to vote Razeluxe, I think. He hasn't been as offensive as people claim he's been: the only thing I recall of D1 that was particularly annoying was his "I haven't read the last two pages, and I doubt there's anything there to make me swing my vote", because no, Raze, voteswings in the last posts is actually reasonable and you should read everything. I'd have accepted a "I can't be arsed, I'm too busy with life", but not "I'm keeping my vote where is; I haven't read beyond that but it's scummiest so far, convince me otherwise". Don't let others direct your vote.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 11, 2010, 10:17:13 AM
Just occurred to me (and reading Saki's latest post, has been confirmed) that I haven't actually explained myself for the whole "convince me otherwise" thing. I was not about to let others direct my vote, merely hoping someone would make a tl;dr of the cases against Shoe and Gamzee so I could understand why they were apparently vote-worthy. Should've just asked for that, though, as opposed to attempting to bait someone into it. Personal derp, there. Anyway, night.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 11, 2010, 02:16:44 PM
I don't regard Gamzee outing Steven as a noob to be a valid basis for deriving him as scum. I was the first person to sign up for the game (submitted my role to Suwako months ago), the signups are in chronological order as far as I can tell. It ws blurted elsewhere that the person behind Steven would be playing and he had no idea of how to play. Basically a whole lot of people knew who he was and that he was new.  You're really making some huge stretches to say that Steven's day end actions were because of Gamzee's coaching.

Where is this elsewhere? ??? I'm looking from the signup list on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5781.msg398463.html#msg398463) and not seeing a thing. And like I said, it's a possibility. It could have been a coincidence that Gamzee used words to imply that he knew Steven was new, or just happened to know from the getgo somehow.

It doesn't 'out' him by any means, but it's another thing that adds to his case. It still remains that a number of people have dismissed reads on him as nulltells due to noob/derptown, and he's taken actions that are suspect. ScumSteven fits with Gamzee's M.O., and it's a perfectly viable strategy to use noobness to enhance credibility and excuse suspicious actions. It's not a stretch by any means.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 11, 2010, 02:22:51 PM
Vote Chart
 
Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (3): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (2): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (2): Sailor Moon, Saki Marimi
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Steven Stone
Steven Stone (2): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
 
No vote cast: No one!
 
12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch, so Shannon leads at L-4. There are about 14 hours left in the day.

Miyako and Shannon will be poked for activity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Sasword on August 11, 2010, 03:29:05 PM
On Shannon:

Shannon still does not fit very well with me, sadly.  While I guess the explanations to some of the points are plausible,the most important points, such as the voting of Sandor for his 'playstyle' vote instead of Mason for the vote against Gamzee (seemingly without reasons) still seem strangely artificial., going for the easier lynch. 

Your defense of voting for Sandor is still hypocritical and not-to-the-point, as others have pointed out (why did you bandwagon Gamzee even after thinking him town if that is the case, if you don't scumhunt by bandwagoning?)  The other half of voting Sandor only after the votes between Gamzee and Shoe were 4-4 still stands as seemingly like an attempt to sway things away from Gamzee without U-turning against Shoe.  This, coupled with you not voting Stone Mason for voting Gamzee (whom you protected here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402427.html#msg402427), in greater detail than Shoe even),  is the scummiest thing I've seen so far.

---

Furthermore, the cases you launched over three of the easiest targets are interesting in a bad way.  This one especially.

Quote
B.) voting with no reason will make them stand out, and people are more likely to look at baseless votes than votes with bad reasoning (just compare Mr. Mason and Mr. Clegane).

So... since more people are looking at Mr. Mason he's... less scummy than Sandor?  What?  Why are you judging people's scuminess by the number of people looking at a specific person in this game only?  And it would be very hard to persuade me that more people looked at Mason as potential scum yesterday for his 'no reason' vote on Gamzee than say, Evangeline and Sandor (as Shoe could tell you).

All the other cases have so many words on bad reasoning, but those words have bad logic in themselves too.  Furthermore, they are all on rather easy lynches, so here is live scum intent, as compared to the votes by Stuffman and Steven, which focused more on obscure lynches for honest mistakes, which do not point towards any scum intent.  Thus my vote on Shannon still stays.

---

@Sailor Moon:

Of the other cases, I don't have much time to catch up on them.  Will read up on them later, though I agree with Raz on Sailor Moon due to her vote on Gamzee, which looks more and more weird as I read it.  What kind of scumtells would you consider to override good stuff in determining the scuminess of a person, Sailor Moon?  The fact that you did not elaborate it yesterday makes it seem as if that vote was a little forced.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 11, 2010, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Razeluxe[/quote
she seems to be the first one to point out Shoe's towniness and seems to be able to tell who has the account, despite them falling into a "MotK tradition of ultimately lynching derptown
If you know who Shoe is, suddenly her being so... well, Shoe, doesn't look anywhere near as terrible. And to be honest, it's kind of hard to not notice if you know about the person. (It's a character associated with said person, Shoe has referred to the wagon on herself multiple times with a word associated with her, and the playstyle is really really just, well, said person.) I'm not spelling it out because I'd assume that falls under the category of "Being Lame".

And lynching for bad play instead of scumminess really does seem to be MotK tradition >_>;

Quote from: Saki
Definitely not too happy with Sailor Moon much either. Drops the vote on Mason, then talks about how Sandor-looks-bad-but-I-don't-want-to-lynch... OK, so who do you want to lynch right here, right now, given the power? I disagree that votes are everything, I want stated intent, too, so give it to us straight now.
I think you majorly misread one of my posts? Huh? Mmk, here's the post I assume you're talking about. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=406198;topic=6785.180;num_replies=213) I never dropped the vote on Mason, and I never said I didn't want to lynch Sandor, so I assume you just made a big derp here or something. Simply said I could see him being town now, but I ALSO said I still find him scummiest. 

The one I said I was feeling wonky about wanting to lynch was Mason, due to him being the swing vote; but damn if he isn't not helping make himself look worse. Votes McClane out of nowhere at D2 start, several people ask him about said vote and when he posts he doesn't mention it at all, and that's on top of his reasonless (Just "I want to pressure" which is never followed up) vote on Gamzee and lurking in D1, which only goes in his favor because Gamzee was scum; which, while being a strong thing towards being a townie, everything else about him just reeks.

You want to know who I'd lynch right now, given the power? Mason or Sandor. Previously I was leaning much more towards Sandor, not entirely sure now that I thought about Mason more.

I notice several people talking about Steven. Some great points have been brought up, and I realize that it was wrong of me to give him a townie pass just for being a nub. That said, unfortunately, dumbtown is capable of doing basically everything and as such everything could be considered nulltells, so he's not my favorite pick; but even if he's not scum, at least we wouldn't have to worry about him doing something stupid or being mislead by scum in LyLo. I'm okay with a lynch on him, but I'd much rather have Sandor or Mason today.

Ninja'd by Miyako.
Quote
What kind of scumtells would you consider to override good stuff in determining the scuminess of a person, Sailor Moon?
Scum can make good points, too. But town is less likely to fabricate things, for example, Gamzee exaggerating Shoe's fluffiness to make it sound scummy. Jumping onto the growing Shoe wagon is also suspicious; not that town can't do it, but scum would be more motivated to, and said fluff exaggeration to make the bandwagon vote seem better is not something I'd see town even thinking they'd maybe should do when it's still only Page 2, ED1.

Quote
The fact that you did not elaborate it yesterday makes it seem as if that vote was a little forced.
No one asked or expressed any discontent with my vote, and the wagon on Gamzee grew steadily, so I didn't see a need to elaborate further.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 11, 2010, 03:59:22 PM
The Stone Mason case doesn't appeal to me. However, I will admit Evagaline and Sandor's arguments for Steven are...rather convincing. Objectively, his timing reads as scummy. I will have to think on this.

Anyway, a couple quibbling points. I think that it could be reasonably expected from my confirm post that the character I was playing was going to be...irritating. Irritating people have a habit of getting lynched around here. I think that the wagon on me could have been scum motivated by the perception I'd get a lot of hate for being insufferable. As others have said, the attacks I made on others made me a lot more suspect, and I get the feeling scum capitalized on this. Anyway, that's why I'm convinced my wagon was scum motivated, as opposed to just being a quick early D1 wagon.

Also, Stone, why aren't you elaborating on the McLane vote. It seemed odd I didn't remember you doing so, and the fact that Sailor Moon observes this in the next post certainly solidifies my memory of the event. Why are you so reluctant to provide reasoning? Your swing vote cred will only go so far.

Anyway, Evangaline, this actually is a pretty good chain of events as far as I can tell. Steven kinda reeked new from what I remember so the gamzee tell might be a little bit of a stretch, but I am sufficiently convinced to reread Steven Stone after I catch up.

Anyway, Sandor post. I disagree that wagon based scum narrowing is a bad idea. I think that, if it objectively seems like you can find a scum in a group of people, it is very good to use that group of people as a narrowing focus so you can discern the sheep from the wolves easier. On the other hand, you should avoid tunneling because you might miss the scum in front of you if they aren't in the "group" you're focusing on. Either way, just a theory disagreement I think. Now, the VAGUENESS involved in Razel's post does not come off well. I don't think he provided a reason for scum to be on either wagon, whereas I like to think I have when I've used wagon based scumhunting this game. (If I have not, I apologize and will cite my thought process if necessary)

I don't believe I have any issues with the rest of your post.

@Razel: Understood about Miyako.

I think I'm glazing over posts at this time. I read them once and am rereading as I go through but don't really remember anything standing out. Sorry I don't have a more full catch up post but it seems that quite a few of us, me included, have a bit of problem with conciseness ^-^;.

Anyway, when my eyes recover I'll look at Steven Stone. I'll note we have about 12 hours left in the day, and as far as I know I AM looking at the right time now. If I end up voting Steven, it will be a swing against Shannon and Sandor. Just noting that.

Cuts:
@Moon: Actually, anything like that in your meta paragraph has actually been a coincidence, but one I noted with giggles. Anyway, I mostly agree with the sentiment of your post, but I think a reread of Steven Stone would be meet at this time.

@Miyako: You produce a compelling reason to vote Shannon as well, since that strongly benefits scum in the way you outlined. But I must admit, you people are giving me too many rereads to do!

I'll try to produce my rereads within the next two hours.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 11, 2010, 05:15:38 PM
Ah, how wonderfully convenient this format is for searching someone's posts in isolation :3c.

This is still interesting
Quote from: Steven Stone
When two individuals defend each other from accusation, it is only possible for those two to be accomplices.

It's before Gamzee defends him but it's interesting that by his own words he and Gamzee would be accomlplices.

I'll admit this is more me being silly than actually finding scumminess.

Now I'll get more serious:

This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401914.html#msg401914) still reads as a rolefish, just as I said before. His reluctance to vote is also noted, as it has been in the past.

Full stop. Negative swing vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403024.html#msg403024). Really convoluted logic. I know the last has been addressed but that still reads as "You're loud and obnoxious, so you're scum". I mean, even Sandor stated the situation FAR more elegantly. It's a piggy back swing vote that demonstrates he doesn't even understand why he's piggybacking. I can see where this is scummy.

This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403074.html#msg403074) is interesting. It's a slight poke of Gamzee (such as Shannon is accused of), while saying very little about why, and still forging ahead with my wagon and the weird explanation that actually now appears to boil down to Burden of Proficiency.

UGH! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403158.html#msg403158) This post. Just, this post. It reads as a strong congnitive dissonance given the previous post. In isolation from his previous posts, it read more noob town. But reading his posts consecutively, it's absolutely silly! Further, his little speech to Gamzee feels a lot like there's more there then there should be between "two townies". But most notably? His first sentence discredits any accusation he gets against him for his post. As was said probably more succinctly by Evangaline, he basically is trying his damndest to save face, and given the relation to Gamzee, it's scum intent.

Last two posts show Steven needs to Leggo his Eggo. I'm guessing the waffling is a sign of cognitive dissonance, and if Steven DOES flip scum, I think that the cases he's waffled most on are more likely to be town.

Honestly, I'm fairly convinced of the Steven case at this point. His later posts reek of a lot of cognitive dissonance, and for the same reason that Stone Mason is more likely town, Steven Stone is more likely scum. That swing vote is bad.

Anyway, I'm going to look at Shannon now, and after that decide which to vote. Sandor has...eased my mind enough at this point so I'm willing to put him off.


Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 11, 2010, 05:40:42 PM
So, you recall my theory that as soon as my confirm post, scum would realize that I would be polarizing? I think Shannon's first post could be construed as the scum side that wants to be on the support side of the pole if the against side goes wrong.

This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402427.html#msg402427) basically has a lot of "I don't think X is scum". Which is fine on it's own, but what's most interesting is the acknowledgement of some level of case against Makara, and even accepting it makes him look worse, but not accepting the wagon. Hindsight being 20/20, given Gamzee's flip, well...as has been said before, it looks bad. Of course also interesting is the spiel on me. At that point, I had been polarizing the situation quite powerfully, and honestly, I'm pretty sure anyone I turned on would be put in sharp relief at that point. I was being scrutinized closely. Therefore anyone I was scrutinizing would also at least be being tossed around in people's heads. Not saying my polarization was necessarily a GOOD thing, but I think that it tended to focus the storm around me. So, if you want to be a scum indirectly supporting your scumbuddy without chancing getting caught in the storm, placating the center is a good idea. Especially given the fact I've demonstrated a STRONG blindness to accusing those that agree with me. It was basically safe for her, since it kept her out of the storm while defending her scumbuddy.

I realize most of this has been said but I feel putting my thoughts out in my way will be best for transparency of how I think, as well as allowing any logic errors I've missed to be pointed out and corrected.

Anyway, moving on...oh. The EBWOP does defeat a minor point in my analysis about saying people aren't scum, etc. I'm not sure it mattered a whole lot.

Then we have the bandwagon hop reinforcing a foregone conclusion at that point. Not much to say about it. As I've said before, I VERY MUCH prefer full wagons, since I think they give more information, combined with the reasoning posts associated with the vote.

Holy God Hell this woman rivals me in terms of walls. This is about the biggest post I have ever seen, and I've written a lot of big posts in my time.

OK, trawling tiem.

OK, um...hmm. Do you still have your post that you would have posted had day not ended? I'm not sure if it'll be helpful, but it might shed more light on your intent. As I've said before, the more you post, the more info you give about yourself if people know what to look for. Anyway, acceptable explanation about me, but I still say you mostly had to pick a pole.

Well, I am guilty of the Sandor thing myself, but as I was the competing wagon, distracting from Gamzee didn't have a whole lot of benefit for me, whereas to stay consistent, it did for you.

Anyway, we have more of the one on one off logic that I agree with. The thing I want clarification on is why Gamzee can't be the only scum. I don't think he is, but I want to see your logic. Remember, Gamzee was 20% of my serious wagon (possibly 25%, we ended on four votes IIRC).

OK, honestly, I'm trying my damndest to nitpick you to bits. I want to believe you're scum. It seemed so plausible.

I can't find it though. I don't see, with my own eyes, the Shannon case after her post today. Her D1 post can be taken badly. Her explanations allow for it to be innocent and flow decently. She's not necessary obvious town at this point, but I don't feel her D1 post is completely damning.

I think I'll go with Steven.

##Unvote, ##Vote Steven Stone

Sorry about the disorganized nature of my thought processes. I am a wild mage, so you kinda make strange leaps to deal with the shape your magic takes, and this unfortunately affects reasoning as well :3c.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 11, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
Vote Chart
 
Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (3): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (2): Sailor Moon, Saki Marimi
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Steven Stone
Steven Stone (3): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe
 
No vote cast: No one!
 
12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch, so Shannon and Steven are at L-4. There are about 10 hours left in the day.

Shannon has been prodded for activity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 11, 2010, 09:12:15 PM
Stuffman: I thought I had been stating my opinions on Mason.  I still think he, personally, looks bad, just the placement of his vote against Gamzee makes it very hard to vote for him.

So, choice is now between Steve and Shannon, and between the two, well.  One of my primary reasons for suspecting her (Shannon)is that I refuse to believe that Scum wouldn't want to have at least one of their own on the bus if they had to lose one of their own people.  After all, might as well gain the credit, and hers is one of the few that wasn't important in some way.  Well, that, and her not saying much.

However, I think Steven looks worse.  The point about the timing of his unvote is a good one that I completely missed.  There's also the fact that at the time he credited Sangor's reasoning for being the basis of his thoughts, going so far as to mostly quote him.  While when he tried to explain his actions today, he said that Evangeline was misleading him, when he did not quote anything of hers before.  He also didn't try to make a case on anyone else, and ended the day with a vote on no one.  He also jumps very quickly between Gamzee being one of his top targets for the day and wishing him well for defending him (instead of moving his vote to one of those suspicions when he unvoted, despite noticing that not having a vote out was a bad idea).

Steve, if you have time to respond, what are your thoughts on Saki Marimi?

##Vote: Steven Stone
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 11, 2010, 09:13:59 PM
Completely forgot to unvote.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Steven Stone
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Skull on August 11, 2010, 10:01:39 PM
The best thing I have against D1 McClane is here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402962.html#msg402962)

By taking up the list Shoe addressed to confirmed scum, you are defending confirmed scum, this could just be a legit bad call as the two of you had similar arguments 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401933.html#msg401933) 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401951.html#msg401951). to 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402189.html#msg402189) and your above posted.
Furthermore, Shoe's hypothesis of scum trying to start alternate wagons to move attention away from the hiding Gamzee seemed logical by way of confirmation bias because I was on such target train, and it was further substantiated by the flip. A lot of what you have been saying has been trying to discredit Shoe, who is likely now town, as it would be really weird for scum to start a case on scum. Honestly though, a lot of this is conditional so I am dropping the McClane case as he remains coherent, and others have looked into him as well.

##Unvote

I am really not buying the Gamzee defending scum buddy Steven. It seems stretched. Gamzee is the first the to actually say that Steve is new, but the general concensus was "Steve is derp", Gamzee had already mentioned this earlier  here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401915.html#msg401915), it doesn't seem like an unreasoned conclusion. As for hypothesizing what scum Gamzee was trying to do, it reads more like: Let someone town mess up, attack town attacking the town who messed up.  In that way scum is technically telling the truth which makes posting easier. Furthermore, you are changing your vote around a lot on D2. Considering Sandor has the same theory, I would like to hear how he arrived to the same conclusion.

It seems funny that both could be scum, and of the two Sandor reads a little more transparently. Additionally, a flip of Evangeline would give more relationship correlation information than Sandor. Going for unlikely lynch today.

##Vote Evangeline

One last bit, Mafia may be a game of trickery, but lying about not being able to participate much would be bad form. Confident that everyone here would be above lying about real life obligations as an excuse for not playing a game. Considering stuff like that null tells. If I'm reading the deadline correctly, I'll be working the quarry when the day ends.

Cut by McClane: That makes a lot of sense, for now I'll keep my vote here, as an unlikely Evangeline flip will tell more about Steve, as well as others. I will likely go for Steve lynch if I'm able to get on before the deadline and nothing major happens.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 11, 2010, 10:44:32 PM
Vote Chart
 
Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (3): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man
John McClane (0): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (2): Sailor Moon, Saki Marimi
Razeluxe Meitzen (0): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Steven Stone, Stone Mason
Steven Stone (4): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, John McClane
 
No vote cast: No one!
 
12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch, so Steven leads at L-3. There are about 5 1/2 hours left in the day.

Shannon has been prodded for activity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 11, 2010, 10:54:55 PM
I am really not buying the Gamzee defending scum buddy Steven. It seems stretched. Gamzee is the first the to actually say that Steve is new, but the general concensus was "Steve is derp", Gamzee had already mentioned this earlier  here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401915.html#msg401915), it doesn't seem like an unreasoned conclusion. As for hypothesizing what scum Gamzee was trying to do, it reads more like: Let someone town mess up, attack town attacking the town who messed up.  In that way scum is technically telling the truth which makes posting easier. Furthermore, you are changing your vote around a lot on D2. Considering Sandor has the same theory, I would like to hear how he arrived to the same conclusion.

It's a stretch to implicate Steven based on Gamzee's actions alone, but there are still big scumtells that Steven gives off which are independent of anyone else. And if you're looking at the possibility of Steven being scum, you'll naturally look at the actions of confirmed scum and see if , and looking at Gamzee's actions in the context of Steven being scum, it makes sense. I find it unlikely that Steven's string of scumtells are just a string of coincidences (disappearing from #37 to #105 with no other explanation but an apology, with a bandwagon swinger vote onto the Shoe train no less. And then later hopping off the bandwagon once Gamzee had a clear lead.)

A nub has the same likelihood as an experienced player of ending up on either side, with the major difference being that a scum nub has potentially more experienced buddies to help him out and coach his actions. At this point I see TownSteven a much bigger stretch of the imagination than ScumSteven.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 11, 2010, 10:57:47 PM
EBWOP, second sentence: "And if you're looking at the possibility of Steven being scum, you'll naturally look at the actions of confirmed scum and see if it fits. And looking at Gamzee's actions in the context of Steven being scum, it makes sense."
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Den-O on August 11, 2010, 11:37:41 PM
Saki, I don't want to get bogged down in a discussion of scumhunting philosophy, but this is relevant to the Razeluxe and Shannon cases, so here goes.  You're saying that it's actually good that Razeluxe stayed off both trains, and I don't think that's good at all.  Votes are only useful as far as they have the possibility to lynch someone.  Votes on people who aren't favored as lynches are only useful because they have the possibility to become favored lynches.  A vote that can't possibly lead to a lynch is just an empty gesture whose intent can be gotten across just as well by saying you find that person scummy.  And if you think both of the trains are town, then you still should consider one of the candidates even more likely town than the other.  And if you somehow consider both candidates to be exactly equal in their likelihood to be town, which is a pretty ridiculous hypothetical in the first place, then it's still pro-town to park your vote on one, 'cause otherwise you're giving scum a proportionally greater say in which of the two gets lynched.

On the other hand, staying off all the wagons that have a shot of getting a lynch is just a way of washing your hands of the whole business and being able to claim that you didn't have anything to do with a possible mislynch.  Self-serving and anti-town, and that's scummy when it comes from players who should know better.

Sailor Moon, I also really really don't like the way that you call everything from Steven a nulltell just because he's a newb.  Bad play is pretty much a nulltell from someone who doesn't know any better, but almost swinging a bandwagon away from flipped scum is not something you can dismiss as incidental just because the player doing it is new.

Still preferring a Steven Stone lynch to a Shannon one, due to Steven Stone being much more firmly connected to Gamzee.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 11, 2010, 11:54:14 PM
Sandor: Playstyle differences here, obviously. I believe votes should show who you think is scummiest, and should never be placed on those you believe to be Town, no matter what. You believe otherwise. That's fine, let's move on, shall we?

Anyway. Have read over things, and as they stand, I... I'm not sure who of Shannon or Steven I want lynched more, today. I think Steven, though I'm quite fine with either. Hmm...Will need to think on this more, actually. Was originally gonna say Shannon, but... yeah. Ugh.

##Unvote: Shannon
##Vote: Steven Stone
##Unvote: Steven Stone

Slightly prefer Steven lynch, so will get my vote on him to show I believe him scum, but will not keep it there since I would still like to keep Shannon in the running; don't believe Steven that much scummier than her.


Will hopefully be around closer to deadline, but no promises. Miss Lily has me running all sorts of crazy errands.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 11, 2010, 11:55:01 PM
Oh great. Just what we needed. ANOTHER DAY where the contender for the lynch disappears. For Hard Mode? BOTH disappear.

And Stone Mason finally responds and oh man I don't have much interest right here and now to read into it.

OK, plainly? I don't know what to think. Let's take Shannon, post by post. In the very first post, she says this:
Quote
.....I also do not like the wagon forming on Mr. Makara.  He does not look good, but I find him unlikely to be a traitor.  [...] [Gamzee] is absolutely right that he and Mr. McClaine have near identical reasoning and yet no one is calling out Mr. McClaine for his, which is unsettling.

This just reinforces that she has had no reason to jump on Gamzee, as from the start she declared she found it unlikely he is scum. She also repeats his line about being like McClaine, which I don't really understand... it feels like a subtle hint to scrutinise McClaine, too. This is reinforced in the EBWOP:
Quote
Why is Mr. Makara worse than Mr. McClaine in this regard?

Her next post is the one jumping on Gamzee with the "Best to get majority for wagon analysis" reasoning which reads now as "Hey guys look I was on scum, don't forget!". She posted all of two posts in D1. Today, there's only one posts. One continues on Clegane, then she talks about StuffMan and Razeluxe. I find nothing specifically wrong with that post, and so I can't quite rhyme her completely with scum.

My suspicion on her is based completely on her insistance to have a vote on someone she thinks is town purely for the sake of achieving a majority, because it'd "give more information". I don't know what information. If you're town, you DON'T want to be on a town lynch. You want to be off it and stick on the person you think is scum, unless you have good reason to condemn that one person. Like being strongly suspicious the alternative is town. (;))

And if you're voting on Town in the hopes that, maybe, just maybe, they'll flip scum and make you look better... I don't know why Town'd take such a huge risk just for that chance. I just can't see town placing a vote on Town for "information" from "train analysis", and it must be a scum ploy or some really, really, really great playstyle differences. Great. I've convinced myself.

##UNVOTE: Stone Mason
##VOTE: Shannon


As for Steven that is such a pot of hullzpullz that I still don't know what to think of it. I never knew he was a newbie and honestly can't find that information anywhere either... so unless someone talked about it offboard or in PM, I don't think it was said.

Maybe in the scum channel oh haha you!



sandor ninja, responding in next post. out this goes
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 11, 2010, 11:59:39 PM
EBWOP: Slightly prefer Steven lynch because, if nothing else, it'll shed some light on Sailor Moon.

Ninja'd. Doesn't change anything for me, really. Just more of the case on Shannon, which still leaves me undecided. Blah.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 12, 2010, 12:04:56 AM
Jumping in to

Quote from: Razeluxe
##Unvote: Shannon
##Vote: Steven Stone
##Unvote: Steven Stone

What?

What are you trying to do here?

Not much else to react to.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 12, 2010, 12:08:02 AM
Sandor, I'll just have to disagree with you there. I think you should only vote on someone who you think is Town if you can expect reasonable returns on it. I.e. you are so damn sure the other person is town, you could swear off eating forever if that person ISN'T town.

There was no risk of Gamzee surviving. Shoe was safe. My vote made sure of that as someone'd have to jump off Gamzee and onto Shoe to even it, and it'd need two non-Gamzees and non-Shoes to topple it AGAINST Shoe. Getting Shoe lynched that day was as difficult as parting seas with your bare hands.

Or just convince someone, but whatever.

The point is that Shannon placed an ultimately useless vote, all the while stressing the importance of wagon analysis while propagating in every post she made (2 o l o l) that Gamzee was assuredly town! Why would you do this? At the very least, Razeluxe was consistent: he said he found the cases terribad and bull, and he stayed by that conviction and never so much as lifted a finger to progress either one.

At the end of the day, if Gamzee flipped town, Razeluxe would have every right, every right to spew off a zealous crusade about scum being on Gamzee's train, trying their darndest to mislynch for the town.

But Shannon? She'd become one of the suspects.

It'd be a different case if Gamzee was obvScum or the case was really strong that you'd have to find excuses NOT to jump on either Shoe or Gamzee, but honestly both cases were bad. Really bad. Just, terribad.

tl;dr it's not good to jump on people you think is town unless you:
A) Have a pretty damn good reason to want any alternatives to survive
B) Have a pretty damn good reason to support a Town lynch

B) is either 1) you get powers from it (and then I'd Frown At You) or 2) you're scum.

Comfortable betting with B2).
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 12, 2010, 12:09:50 AM
EBWOP: that means Razeluxe acted completely reasonable to me and I don't like condemning people because what they do is logical and reasonable and has no real merit or demerit. Isn't a tell either way, but if he'd made a sloppy excuse to jump on Gamzee you bet it'd be a tell, and not one he'd like.
Kinda the same one I hold against Shannon.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 12, 2010, 12:14:19 AM
/me derps

READING COMPREHENSION! I HAS IT!

Nevermind Razel, I just processed your next paragraph, though the vote thing still looks silly.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kiva-la on August 12, 2010, 12:18:58 AM
Turns out I have more time than I thought before I have to go. Should be able to respond to whatever else Saki's going to post, and Shoe.

That was my way of showing where I think scum are. I'm still not confident in who I distrust more, but since it's both, I placed votes on both of them. If I could have active votes on both, I would.

Ok, ninja'd by Saki's posts. Did some re-reading of both cases while I was at it, and... I think I'm more comfortable with a Steven Stone lynch. Tipping factor is information, which I never like being a factor in votes. Which leads me back to part of why I dislike Shannon so much. Which AGH.

Personal bias has me hedging Shannon over Steven because I hate that she 'voted Gamzee for wagon analysis' stuff because GOD DAMN I hate information > scumhunting.

Logic, however, has me leaning Steven Stone because his alignment pretty much determines Sailor Moon's, for me, as she's the last person who's willing to hold being nub in his defense, near as I can tell.

This can be gleaned from other lynches, however, so I will

##Vote: Shannon


Sorry about the sloppy mess there, I post in (mostly) stream-of-consciousness, and this has been one big headache for me. Now, however, I leave before my head explodes from thinking about this more.

Ninja'd by Shoe, read beginning of this post.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Den-O on August 12, 2010, 12:37:13 AM
Saki:  After your vote, yeah, Gamzee was clinched as the lynch, and any voting at all after that was an empty gesture.  But I'm looking at Razeluxe's #145 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403335.html#msg403335), and at that point, and I'm thinking about what scum without a vote on either wagon at the time would be thinking.  The votes were Shoe 4 and Gamzee 5.  It could have gone either way.  But if Scum-Razeluxe votes Shoe, and then later votes cause Gamzee to be lynched, then Razeluxe is going to look really really bad for an even more blatant wagon swing than Steven Stone is guilty of.  But if he votes Gamzee, then he's sealing his scumbuddy's fate when it's still possible that someone could come along and save him.  There's nothing scum-Razeluxe can do at this point but remain noncommital and express disdain for both cases, so that if Shoe gets lynched the mob will probably end up looking somewhere other than Gamzee D2.

Now, I know there's a little difference between doing what scum would do and not doing what scum wouldn't do, but the more I go over this, the more likely Razeluxe as scum looks to me.  I was halfway through this post before I stopped to think about how this fits with the idea of scum-Steven or scum-Shannon, so I'm not sure whether it's worth trying to start another train so late in the day, but I want to get this out there.

WE'VE GOT LESS THAN FOUR HOURS LEFT, SO IF WE'RE GOING TO BE CONSIDERING ANOTHER LYNCH, THIS IS THE TIME TO SAY WHERE YOU STAND!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Decade on August 12, 2010, 12:43:44 AM
I just got out of the ER.  Chances of me being able to post coherently tonight are small.  I'll try, but don't count on it.

##Unvote
##Vote Steven Stone


for reasons that should be obvious.  I'm not going to lynch myself. 
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 12, 2010, 12:46:56 AM
Well, if nothing else, the fallout from this decision will be interesting.  Four trains, and someone pushing for a fifth near deadline.

Sandor, I could be persuaded.  Raze's magical little waffling act between the two leading candidates today is doing precious little to endear him to me.  But, as things stand, without any other support, I'm more interested in keeping Steve in the lead.


Mason, that was some lovely commentary on Evangeline and Sandor, do you have anything to say about the leading trains at the moment?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 12:50:26 AM
Whoops, looks like the mask just came off! What a terrible mod, can't even keep her own Anon a secret.

Anyway!

Vote Chart
 
Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (4): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
John McClane (0): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shawn Michaels
Stone Mason (1): Sailor Moon, Saki Marimi
Razeluxe Meitzen (0): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Steven Stone, Stone Mason
Steven Stone (5): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, John McClane. Razeluxe Meitzen, Shannon
 
No vote cast: No one!
 
12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch, so Steven leads at L-2 with Shannon at L-3. There are about 3 1/2 hours left in the day.

Given Shannon's situation, she will not be modkilled yet, but I am looking into potential long-term solutions.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 12, 2010, 12:50:55 AM
I'd imagine Scum without votes'd be thinking, "Oh shit, someone's on Gamzee. Oh shit. Shit shit shit. Fuuuuuck. What do I do? Feign Death? Wait, no, Gamzee's doing that. Shit. OK, another train. Shoe? Yeah, Shoe's a great plan. Wait... wait... I need a reason. Crapsticks, a reason. Uh, Shoe's REALLY AGGRESSIVE. Yeah. There's gotta... there's gotta be something there that... ugh, what, no. That's... what? What is this I don't even- WHAT?"

That aside, I'm not sure what you're trying to solicit from me. I'm not convinced Razeluxe is scum at this point. I'd rather place bets with Shkannon over yonder. Steven... yeah, willing to let it derpfall over. Do you want me to think along with you? I don't even know your alignment.

I know your reasoning is off, though. Very bad reasoning (no offence no offence no offence). "Scum!Raze would probably best do this..." WIFOM. It's WIFOM. "Town!Raze would... do the exact same damn thing because jumping on either case with a flimsy reason would look bad!" Still WIFOM. We don't know what he's thinking. Reasoning from "what he may be thinking" is weird. With the right amount of paranoia you can paint anyone scummy.

Even Shoe. Hell, I can have a field day with paranoia on Shoe.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ouja on August 12, 2010, 02:17:05 AM
Wait... WAIT. Who's "Shawn Michaels" and why is he voting Sandor?

What is this madness.

Where is everyone.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 02:22:17 AM
No change in the vote count. 2 hours to go!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Ryuki on August 12, 2010, 02:32:53 AM
Wait... WAIT. Who's "Shawn Michaels" and why is he voting Sandor?

What. :o

Another peculiarity I just noticed.. Somehow an hour and a half disappeared between Suwako #219 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406964.html#msg406964) and #223 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407145.html#msg407145). Mod error or something more insidious?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 02:34:59 AM
I don't always remember to factor halves in, especially when it's only kind of a half and not really.

Post #241 is accurate.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 12, 2010, 03:06:55 AM
Before I get going here, I apologize for quotestriping.

Quote from: Sandor
Sailor Moon, I also really really don't like the way that you call everything from Steven a nulltell just because he's a newb.  Bad play is pretty much a nulltell from someone who doesn't know any better, but almost swinging a bandwagon away from flipped scum is not something you can dismiss as incidental just because the player doing it is new.
He also unvoted shortly after. I don't understand why he'd do this if he was scum; first of all, it defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place, second of all it looks terrible, especially considering he didn't even use his vote afterwards! If he was scum, he'd have scumbuddies that I'd hope would tell him not to do something like that. Well, err, I guess I wouldn't hope they'd do that if it was beneficial for them, but you know what I mean :V

Quote from: Razeluxe
##Unvote: Shannon
##Vote: Steven Stone
##Unvote: Steven Stone

Slightly prefer Steven lynch, so will get my vote on him to show I believe him scum, but will not keep it there since I would still like to keep Shannon in the running; don't believe Steven that much scummier than her.
...is there really any point at all in doing that? And you aren't even using your vote, now. I can't think of any pro-town reason to not use your vote in this situation, especially considering there are people you find scummy, both of which are big wagons today. It just distances yourself from either lynch.

Quote from: Saki
As for Steven that is such a pot of hullzpullz that I still don't know what to think of it. I never knew he was a newbie and honestly can't find that information anywhere either... so unless someone talked about it offboard or in PM, I don't think it was said.
Steven's player was talking about... well, being Steven, in #touhou-meido IRC multiple times. So several people not only know the player is new, but also exactly who it is. The mafia regulars present kinda talked him into signing up :3

Quote from: Razeluxe
Logic, however, has me leaning Steven Stone because his alignment pretty much determines Sailor Moon's, for me, as she's the last person who's willing to hold being nub in his defense, near as I can tell.
Because nubs will be nubs and do nubby things. I do think the case on him is good, it's just that it's also so very possible that Steven is flailing around and scum managed to make a good case on him; because hey, newbies are often not that hard to make a nice looking case on! This one does look better then most cases on newbies, though, which is why I said I approve of the lynch in one of my earlier posts, in addition to the small added bonus of him being a possible liability during LyLo from his nubbiness even if he's town. It's just... I'd rather go after someone whose case can't also be explained by "lolnub", when there are such other cases present.

Now, it looks like it's fairly certain that Steve or Shannon will be lynched today. I still don't find Shannon particularly scummy. I'd elaborate more on that and on more people, but it's late and I'm sleepy, it won't matter till day 3, and deadline is coming up. I'd rather have a Steven lynch then a Shannon lynch, and that's what matters at the moment.

##Unvote, ##Vote:Steven Stone
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 12, 2010, 03:22:21 AM
EBWOP:Oops!

Quote from: Razeluxe
And you aren't even using your vote, now. I can't think of any pro-town reason to not use your vote in this situation, especially considering there are people you find scummy, both of which are big wagons today. It just distances yourself from either lynch.
Sorry about this paragraph, memory lapse. Just like, strike it out in your minds.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 12, 2010, 03:23:45 AM
EBWOP:oh uh, that's not a Razeluxe quote like it says, typo. That's a quote from my post, of course. Maybe I should stop copypasting individual paragraphs and then adding the name into the code manually.

/me headdesks
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 03:28:25 AM
Steven Stone is at L-1!

About 55 minutes remaining!

Vote Chart
 
Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (4): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
John McClane (0): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shawn Michaels
Stone Mason (0): Sailor Moon, Saki Marimi
Razeluxe Meitzen (0): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Steven Stone, Stone Mason
Steven Stone (6): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, John McClane. Razeluxe Meitzen, Shannon, Sailor Moon
 
No vote cast: No one!
 
12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch, so Steven leads at L-1 with Shannon at L-3.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 04:25:40 AM
Time is up!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 04:39:02 AM
Huh. If so many of you lunkheads knew this Steven kid was a new guy, why didn't you bother telling him that "gotta catch 'em all" doesn't apply to votes? What a bunch of jerks. Let's just get on with this.

...

...

...

...Nope, nothing. Looks like you swung and missed this time, unless your goal was to generate programming 4kids wouldn't touch.

Steven Stone, Town Oh Shi- Moment, was deadline lynched!

It is now Night 2, so all the good little players should go to bed and make no noise. People with night actions, please send them in.

Final Day 2 Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (4): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Razeluxe Meitzan, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
John McClane (0): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi, Shannon, Shoe, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shawn Michaels
Stone Mason (0): Sailor Moon, Saki Marimi
Razeluxe Meitzen (0): John McClane
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Steven Stone, Stone Mason
Steven Stone (6): Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, John McClane, Razeluxe Meitzen, Shannon, Sailor Moon
 
No vote cast: No one
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Sasword on August 12, 2010, 05:26:29 AM
Quite dismayed at today's results (I wished I had been there earlier).  The Steven bandwagon was horrible and another example of MoTK's obsession with lynching new and bad players which really needs to stop.

Would again, like to point out Shannon's very bad hypocrisy for forming a bandwagon on Steven for no reason other than being the only viable lynch when already stating that:" It is very possible to lynch scum on D1, so I do not believe that the purpose of D1 is to simply form some bandwagons on anyone."  She did not lynch who she thought was scum, as she claims, but only guy who was not her.

Sailor Moon is horrible for pretty much playing the nice guy and agreeing with everyone.  There is pretty much no active scumhunting from her, only agreeing with everyone she meets and saying the obvious things (e.g Mason's seemingly strange vote for no reason on McClaine (which I accept as his own brand of scumhunting from D1). 

For example, in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404631.html#msg404631) she says a whole lot of opinions without actually saying who is scum.  She neutralizes her own statements, and let's others do so too (e.g agreeing with my case and agreeing with Shannon when she makes her reply without a shred of analysis),

Lastly, she progresses from saying Shannon as potential scum team material, to thinking that "case on Steven is good but I like Mason more because noobplay is town" and finally, voting Steven even though she defended him more than Shannon.  I'm not too happy with her play here, and since agreeing with everyone is a very good way to get out of everyone's minds, Sailor Moon seems scummy and in league with Shannon.  She also has very little solid opinions, so despite her vote on Gamzee, I am willing to think her scum.

---

Thus, I think a Shannon lynch on D3 would tell us more about a lot of people (considering the bandwagons). 
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Cirno on August 12, 2010, 07:52:27 PM
Hahaha, this is entertaining. Keep it up, my minions! Soon our plan to take over Gensokyo will come to fruition, and no one will be able to stop us. Mwahahahahahahahahahaha!

##Vote: Suwako

Yes, only a few more days now....wait, you guys aren't the queue at ZUN's Comiket booth? Man I can't think of any other situation where I would hear so much incoherent babbling. Oh well, it doesn't matter what you lot actually are as long as your inane chatter provides distractions for my great war efforts.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 12, 2010, 08:38:33 PM
Giddadda here, you! Don't you have some other fairies to beat up?

Shannon's situation has been resolved. While the existing player will still play on, they will be joined by a second voice. Shannon is now a hydra. For the new users that may be curious, this is not without precedent. Hopefully each voice will differentiate which voice they are, but that's up to them.

(And before you complain to me, you-know-who-you-are, this is a hydra born out of necessity, not simply because two people wanted to do it.)

Incidentally, Shannon's username will be updated to reflect this turn of events.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 13, 2010, 01:04:34 AM
So given I let the cat out of the bag twice yesterday, I guess it's only fitting that it got put back in the bag last night. Shame for the cat that it's a body bag. Most of their possessions seem intact, and they make the cat look innocent, though there's this one beaten-up, burnt, ripped book...

...wait, was this a copy of 4e?

Shoe, Town Machi Man, was killed overnight!

Day 3 has begun!

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto

10 players alive means 6 votes will lynch. Beginning today, a majority vote WILL BE REQUIRED. No majority = no lynch. You have 72 hours. Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 13, 2010, 01:36:59 AM
So, the anonymous vote strikes again. Alright, hoever's doing that, quit it. No, it doesn't help town. Dumbly throwing votes around will only help scum etc etc.

Okay, that out of the way. Really, the Steven lynch I can see where they came from, and I'm not yet sure how I feel about that. I'm... yeah, let me mull that over for a bit. Seriously need to reread that fiasco.

Anyway, night post addressing, I disagree with Miyako re: Shannon. Because "Not Me Instead Of Me" is one of the best reasons ever to vote an alternate train. Usually people want to survive, there was no reason for Shannon NOT to vote Steven and I am a bit leery at you for trying to paint that in a bad light by calling it hypocrisy and stuff. Surely you're aware of your own alignment. Damn, I'd lynch an obvTown if the alternative was that I'd be lynched.

Right. I'm not sure if that's just playstyle or what. Vastly good reasons for Shannon to vote him, although I'm still very, very suspicious of her anyway. Egh. Right, whatever.

##VOTE: Shannon

Explanations. I wants them. I'll be rereading the thread and I can tell that this random anonyvote on Sandor is weird. DO NOT THROW ANONVOTES AROUND LIGHTLY! I don't know the reason anyone felt to do that, but anonyvotes hurt town because their intent is unknown, and it gives scum an easier platform from which to mislynch.

Speaking of, whoever placed that anonyvote on me and Miyako should come with an explanation. No good reason to drop them off and bring us one closer to death for no discernable reason. Rolefish, bite me. It hurts town.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 13, 2010, 02:24:47 AM
Hmmph...then...I guess even this is possible...so much for being touched by destiny...

/me dies.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 13, 2010, 02:24:46 PM
So, uh, how's that Mafier going for you guys?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 13, 2010, 03:51:28 PM
@Saki:

I'm okay with her voting Steven at deadline, but I'm just pointing out that it goes against her own words of what is right and wrong.  She says numerous times that she votes who she thinks is scum, especially in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg405257.html#msg405257), but she merely piles the bandwagon without any explanation or telegraphing of suspicion (like she did for Gamzee).  Even if self-preservation is a good reason to vote the other one, it cannot stand on its own and must be accompanied with an attempt to know about the case (because Shannon could be scum).   Lastly, It goes against her 'voting on bad reasoning is bad' which she used to implicate easy targets; she should vote herself in that case!  Even RL can't account for that.

I'll like to say that on D2, a Silver Medal was passed to me and it was told to me that the Silver Medal could be passed to someone else during the night.  Apparently, the mod lied and so it's still in my possession (presumably forever).  Reason I withheld this information was to avoid dying with it by an NK,, hoping to put the Medal to better use.  But I'm afraid that it seems like a lie.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 2
Post by: DiEnd on August 13, 2010, 04:40:21 PM
I'm... really not seeing anything actually good in Miyako's nightpost.

Mmk, what she says about the Steven wagon being MotK derptown lynch obsession is partially true. This actually wasn't all that bad of a case for a derptown lynching. But yes, MotK likes to lynch derptown too much.

Saki covered the part about Shannon. I have absolutely no idea why Miyako is trying to make Shannon look bad for voting the wagon that isn't her so she survives. If she didn't do that, I'd wonder if she was a Jester or something, and lets not even get into how I feel about Jester roles.

First paragraph about me is... kinda true I suppose, actually. I am agreeing with a lot of people without much explanation, most notably where it looks like I practically handwave Shannon as town. I do need to reread Shannon today to review her D2 actions.
For example, in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404631.html#msg404631) she says a whole lot of opinions without actually saying who is scum.
So, I don't say who I think is scum, except... err, how about that sentence at the end where I say the three people I think might be scum?
Quote
Lastly, she progresses from saying Shannon as potential scum team material, to thinking that "case on Steven is good but I like Mason more because noobplay is town" and finally, voting Steven even though she defended him more than Shannon.
I didn't feel Shannon to be particularly scummy after her response post, as I said.  My feelings on Steven were "This case isn't bad but could all just be derptown." I'd rather lynch someone I can't read then someone I don't feel to be scummy. And derptown is a liability in LyLo as I said, so it's not quite as bad as lynching some other townie.
Quote
She also has very little solid opinions, so despite her vote on Gamzee, I am willing to think her scum.
*waffle waffle waffle* :D

Anyway, Miyako wants to lynch Shannon to get insight on my alignment. With her having been the other wagon yesterday, I'd say it looks like she'll get her wish. I'll reread Shannon to see how I feel about her now.

Ninjaed by Miyako. Why are you still trying to make her look bad for voting Steven at deadline?
Quote from: Miyako
It goes against her 'voting on bad reasoning is bad' which she used to implicate easy targets; she should vote herself in that case
Except that's the best reason to vote someone ever, as Saki said. There is absolutely no reason someone should NOT vote the other person in this case, with the rare exception of knowing the other person is DEFINITELY town and will be MORE helpful to town (such as a power role), whixh is an extremely situational case.

In fact, the post you linked as an example DIRECTLY contradicts EXACTLY what you're blaming Shannon for! Here is the quote from said post.
Quote from: Shannon
3.) I find it inherently scummy to not be on one of the major wagons at the end of the day (with certain exceptions, such as not being there at the time).  As I said above, a vote is also a way to be transparent.  Even if you think both of the wagons are town, you must surely find one of them better than the other (whether that be for informational purposes, or whether you just find one person more likely to be scum than the other even if it's just by a small amount).  Scum do not want their actions and opinions to be tracked easily, so I find it more likely that scum will be off both the wagons than town (these kinds of votes are usually referred to as "throwaway votes").

I think Miyako is trying a bit too hard to get reasons to push the Shannon case, as the reasons she brought up tonight are both nulltells and directly contradicted by the very example of them she linked; I'm starting to like the idea of a Shannon lynch today too, as if Shannon flips town, I'm really not going to be liking Miyako very much.

I'm going to hold off on voting Shannon right away until I do my reread, however. If I think Shannon looks pretty town I might just go right to Miyako instead.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 13, 2010, 04:52:33 PM
@Saki:

I'm okay with her voting Steven at deadline, but I'm just pointing out that it goes against her own words of what is right and wrong.

And it doesn't matter. Self-preservation is a good reason. Giving up is not the Town thing to do. If I'd ever find myself on the ballot and the alternate train to me is someone I strongly suspect as town, I'd vote them. Not Me Instead Of Me is always a better choice, because the only one I can be absolutely sure of alignment-wise is me, unless I'm a Cop in which case Not Me Instead Of Me is STILL better because it's a pretty strong role to have.

No, there's no good reason to paint Shannon's self-preservation vote as scummy or contradictory or whatever. Self-preservation should be town's top priority, right up there with "kill scum".

I STILL want to hear something from Shannon, because the self-preservation changes little for me. But it does make me a little cheese on toast at Miyako now with her... weird train of thought.

Curiously, Miyako... did you try passing the medal off this night?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: W on August 13, 2010, 04:59:49 PM
I'm expecting to be busy, but I'll post a little when I can.

How Steven's wagon sprang up yesterday feels like scum having a hand in the pileup. Sandor placing the first vote when there were 32 hours remaining when nobody paid him much mind before for the day. Evangeline making a more detailed post calling him bad and drawing attention to his relation to Gamzee is what I think prompted people to start finding fault with him. I mentioned yesterday that Evangeline's case had a flimsy foundation. She's my pick for scum pushing the wagon.

##Vote Evangeline

Shannon is still unimpressive and I'd still like to see her lynched.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 13, 2010, 05:46:47 PM
How Steven's wagon sprang up yesterday feels like scum having a hand in the pileup. Sandor placing the first vote when there were 32 hours remaining when nobody paid him much mind before for the day. Evangeline making a more detailed post calling him bad and drawing attention to his relation to Gamzee is what I think prompted people to start finding fault with him.

People *had* been finding fault with him, yet it was mostly being dismissed as noobtown. You fixated your criticism on the part of my argument that put his actions in context with Gamzee, yet ignored the part about his repeated active scumtells.


Anyway. Saki makes a good point about self-preservation. Town and scum should act exactly the same in that situation ('Not me instead of me'), so considering that a scumtell is impossible. Currently I feel strongest about the Shannon case, but I honestly don't have enough information or looked closely at anyone else's actions to formulate a good opinion on anyone else.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Kiva-la on August 13, 2010, 07:45:17 PM
##Vote: Shannon

Nothing has changed for me. Sailor Moon has explained herself well enough.

I forget if I mentioned this yesterday or not (Meant to if I didn't) but... Still displeased at Stone Mason and not liking McClane or Sandor. Stone Mason for obvious reasons that have been rehashed. McClane for giving almost no reasons for his votes yesterday, and Sandor because every single vote he gives feels like he's stretching for it.

I can see the case on Miyako, gonna keep a closer eye on her and Moon than I previously have been. (and possibly a few others, though I really need to keep this list short unless I want to get paranoid, and that's never very good)

Yeah, really not much else to say. D3 has barely started.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 13, 2010, 10:36:05 PM
Yes, I tried passing it to Shannon this night.  And whoops.  I will like to repeat that I find her self-preservation bad not in it self, but because of the lack of reasoning attached, even despite RL circumstances.  No matter what the motive, you have to jump on the bandwagon with some reasoning.  Especially since it contradicts against her ethos of scumhunting.

##Vote: Shannon

---

@Sailor Moon:

Quote
So, I don't say who I think is scum, except... err, how about that sentence at the end where I say the three people I think might be scum?

It's three random names with no semblance of reasoning for any of them at all.  Besides, that sentence did not mean anything at all by the end of the day due to your ever-changing opinions.

Quote
I didn't feel Shannon to be particularly scummy after her response post, as I said. 

The main question is why.  Why the switch?  Notice that you have said absolutely nothing specific about Shannon other than 'her response satisfies me" ; nothing in defending her, and nothing in pushing her as a lynch other than saying 'my case is good'.  Yet you say more about Steven having the possibility of being town; my point is that you lynched someone you defended more than the other, and votes going against the reasoning for them is always scummy.  Main case against you is that you have been waffling your way through the game, and yours is a case I will pursue in D4 if we get a Shannon flip and lynch.

Regarding Shannon:

Quote
Even if you think both of the wagons are town, you must surely find one of them better than the other (whether that be for informational purposes

With reasons, of course.  It goes against:

Quote
I believe they are also more likely to try to justify it with reasoning that makes little sense because A.) they have to make up reasons to vote for townies since they know they are not scum and B.) voting with no reason will make them stand out, and people are more likely to look at baseless votes than votes with bad reasoning (just compare Mr. Mason and Mr. Clegane).

It made her stand out, I suppose.  How is Sandor who gives a reason fort voting Shoe on D1 (albeit a bad one) different from Shannon who gives no reason at all for voting Steven late on D2?  It doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 13, 2010, 10:53:43 PM
EBWOP:

Looking more closely at Sailor Moon's ineffectual scumteam of Shannon/Mason/Sandor (here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404631.html#msg404631) (seems that I was wrong with them having no reasoning)

Mason she votes for being 'not around on the latter half of the day much', though she admits that 'he helped the Gamzee lynch'?  Perhaps a prod vote on Mason for voting McClaine was acceptable, but not enough that I would call that a scumteam, just needing more explanation.  The 'case' evaporated into thin air since Sailor Moon never mentioned it again ever since Mason's explanation, which strikes me as pretending to be scumhunting.  Regarding Sandor, she doesn't consider his scumhunting  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406391.html#msg406391) in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406772.html#msg406772) at all, preferring to press him for day one reasons.  Shannon I've already explained about how quickly Moon agreed with me and agreed with Shannon's defense without an original bone in those agreements.  You can say she's not scummy, but why?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 13, 2010, 11:00:53 PM
I still don't get why you think you need a reason to push another train in front of your own, but that's just an endless psyduckfest I think where I don't think you need a reason to preserve yourself. I sure as heck won't go, "Well, damn, I don't have a reason to self-preserve vote the other beyond self-preserve... guess I'll have to sit down and get myself lynched!"

Did the mod's message say anything regarding you passing off the Medal? Confirmation that you passed it on or anything?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 13, 2010, 11:02:33 PM
The Medal line of inquiry is extremely important to me. It's not just trying to rolefish or whatever, this is information that I find vital to my scumhunting progress.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 13, 2010, 11:42:44 PM
On N1, the PM came saying that I could pass it on to someone else or keep it for myself on the next night.   N2 I said I wanted to pass it to Shannon but the mod came back with some sort of flavor that I could not get rid of the medal on N2 after all...

Well, it's making use of the time and seeing Sailor Moon's responses.  I'm not so much pushing another train as much as inviting her to explain her magically disappearing cases throughout the game, and the earlier the better, given her (to me) strong links with Shannon.  As for this 'self-preservation' nonsense, I still don't really see how it absolves you from providing some form of reasoning for your vote.  Scum can self-preserve, and so can town, so what makes people tell the difference?  The reasons, of course, which are not there.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 12:06:22 AM
Most excellent, Miyako!

Now then, going on...

SANDOR CLEGANE! EXPLAIN YOUR CHOICE OF TARGETS FOR LAST NIGHT! And don't try to pretend you targeted someone else. I know who you targeted, I want to know why.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DiEnd on August 14, 2010, 12:47:32 AM
Quote
Notice that you have said absolutely nothing specific about Shannon other than 'her response satisfies me" ; nothing in defending her, and nothing in pushing her as a lynch other than saying 'my case is good'.  Yet you say more about Steven having the possibility of being town; my point is that you lynched someone you defended more than the other, and votes going against the reasoning for them is always scummy.
Shannon's mostly been off my radar. I didn't really pay specific attention to her until you brought her up, and I didn't really pay much attention to her after reading her response post and thinking that she looked fine. Admittedly, I didn't read that much between the lines on her. I've been babysitting for three days and I can't concentrate on all this ;_; And on that note, I still haven't gotten around to the reread on her, but I'll try to get it done before I go to sleep.

About lynching Steven over Shannon; my defense of Steven was "Case is good but can also be explained by derp." That isn't saying he's town, that's just saying... well, that he's dumb, and it could really just go either way. Shannon, on the other hand, I didn't feel to be scum at the moment. "Could Be Either+lolnub that can hurt town" > "Someone I don't particularly think is scummy".

...that entire paragraph is things I've already said several times ;_;

About me playing musical mafia cases, well, Shannon case was basically handwaved (This is bad play on my part to not read into it further, sorry), by the time I came back after Mason's response it was near deadline and how I felt on him no longer mattered due to Steven vs. Shannon, and Sandor... what happened to that, anyway? Everyone else kinda dropped him so he fell lower on my priority list. It's more useful to go after someone that people will vote for, and I doubted I'd pull up some awesome reason no one noticed out of his small post count (which is now larger and I should look into again; oh wait, with Saki's latest post, I am HIGHLY interested in how Sandor will respond!).

And that wasn't meant to look like a scumteam prediction, just people I felt may be scum, something very liable to intense fluctuation. Who I think is scum is highly subject to my mood, amount of sleep+food, current location, and most of all other people's actions. This is human, although I do notice that I waffle a lot more then the average mafia player, and that's been before this particular game. For example, how much I feel about Mason fluctuates greatly because of his bad early play combined with being D1 swing vote towards scum.

SANDOR CLEGANE! EXPLAIN YOUR CHOICE OF TARGETS FOR LAST NIGHT! And don't try to pretend you targeted someone else. I know who you targeted, I want to know why.
Care to share this information with the rest of us? And I find target being plural to be highly interesting, do you mean there was more then one?

Also, seeing as you pretty much just roleclaimed some sort of investigative role, would you like to elaborate on that too?

I'll hold off on a Sandor reread until he responds to Saki, because that's some juicy info, there. I'll get to that Shannon reread soon.

Okay, did I miss anything I should be responding to/talking about? I feel like I did.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DiEnd on August 14, 2010, 12:53:41 AM
Quote from: Sailor Moon
For example, how much I feel about Mason fluctuates greatly because of his bad early play combined with being D1 swing vote towards scum.
I forgot to elaborate more on this. It fluctuates for those reasons according to how my mood currently makes me interpret chances of him being scum despite that swing vote. Sometimes I'm going "Why am I even bothering to chase him now, he's the friggin swing vote towards scum lynch!" and sometimes I'm like "Dude, he looks so bad other then that, totally should keep chasing". The main reason my vote wasn't flipping everywhere was because I knew I'd likely fluctuate back and because I didn't want to be all CHANGE VOTE EVERY TEN SECONDS YEEAAAHHHHH
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 01:04:17 AM
I don't feel like explaining myself right now. I want Sandor to have a chance at honesty. Until Shannon posts I feel comfortable focusing my efforts on Sandor right now. If he comes clean, I might just know what happened.

There's only one role I know of that targets multiple people. Work the math yourself. I've left enough hints in my posts today. :P Sorry for the secrecy, I'll try to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Den-O on August 14, 2010, 01:05:17 AM
I HIT SAKI AND SAILOR MOON LAST NIGHT!  I'm a compulsory bus driver.  Considered Saki and Sailor Moon both likely town, and decided that hitting two likely townies would minimize the odds of doing something harmful with my role.  I've got more to say about actual scumhunting today, but caught Saki's post just now and want to get this out.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 01:10:15 AM
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Sandor Clegane


Why are you lying?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Den-O on August 14, 2010, 01:20:13 AM
I'm not lying.  Are you going to cut the crap, or should I show up in 48 hours to post my last impressions before my flip?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 01:22:34 AM
I don't think we need scum's last impressions. They're not going to be helpful much, will they be?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 14, 2010, 01:25:11 AM
@Sailor Moon:

Alright, that clarifies quite a number of things, thank you.  Though I don't think it's right to put the majority vote on Steven while not reading into Shannon closely, but I'll put that off into a later date.

---

Since Sandor and Saki both deny each other, details are very welcome, especially on how it relates to the Silver Medal.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 14, 2010, 01:33:28 AM
Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Stuff Man
Sandor Clgane (2): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury

No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Stone Mason, Sailor Moon, Shannon, John McClane

10 players alive means 6 votes will lynch. You have about 47.5 hours remaining.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 01:36:39 AM
Details? The details are that I know Sandor Clegane's role - to wit, observe the next vote count. He will have a modvote on him. His role allows him, and the wording specifically said may, switch two targets of his liking, or redirect one target's powers to another target for the night.

I have no wit of who his targets were. It was a bluff. You'll see my first post corroborates what I knew of Sandor's job if you link the first letters of each sentence together, right before I vote Shannon. Don't bother looking further back, it won't help you.

Regardless. The results of my night action were clear and detailed, and mentioned nothing of compulsion. I was unsure if, in role madness, bus drivers are never town roles, but I felt it was a terrible role for town and it was too curious how he never used the PUBLIC PART of his role, which is to speak at night.

Observe each of his posts. He must write in ALL CAPS ENDING WITH AN EXCLAMATION MARK! to avoid getting a mod vote. He must do this once per post. He failed to do so twice; just now, and the day before. That's why he got a rando-vote.

I was using the ALL CAPS ENDING WITH EXCLAMATION MARK! lines just to mock him a little and see if he'd understand.


My theory? He redirected the Medal back into your face. But if that is untrue, and he truly targeted Sailor Moon and I, well then. Well then. I've no idea what that means. But I do know lying about his role makes him scum, as he has no compulsion to act, and swapping targets is inherently anti-town to begin with!



I feel confident getting that out here, because my ability is limited.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DiEnd on August 14, 2010, 01:42:10 AM
Saki's case is... well, I'd say Sandor is p.much confirmed scum now. And I suppose if he flips town then Saki would be p.much confirmed scum for making up a load of lies, so either way it works.

##Vote:Sandor

I'll still get around to rereads, but due to :effort: and it no longer being imminently important I'll probably hold off till tomorrow when I've had sleep.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 01:51:07 AM
I was level and hesitant at first, prying into the Silver Medal because when Miyako mentioned it, I only had a suspicion. I said to myself, "Why, if he can talk at night, does he not exercise that right?" and then I thought, "But then, bussing people is never helpful to town... I'll take a chance".

It was my top priority from the start to find out Clegane's night actions, hence the bluff. I'd no idea he'd actually spill his role and all, but it was a chance I was willing to take. I'm glad you made me subtly hint at the role he had, because had you not he might never have felt compelled to fakeclaim. (pun intended)

I apologise for pretty much nulling most scumhunting like this. I'd rather the day drew out a little, but as I evidenced I grew rather impatient at the slow activity. I didn't want to risk Sandor being "away" conveniently near the end of the lynch trains, and failing to get people to follow me at my call.

Sandor has plenty of damning evidence against him. This is simply the last screw to bolt that coffin shut for me, and I hope it is for you too.

There's no reason for town to lie about their role.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 02:00:45 AM
By the way, I don't want to see Sandor Clegane lynched before everyone's had a chance to speak up about their suspicions for remaining scum, etcetera. Lunging headlong into the lynch never seems quite exciting to me when there's still information to be gleaned, and in this case, there's valuable things to be learned of people's research into Clegane's interactions, possible scum we can tie to him etcetera.

I'll be doing the same, checking cautiously for targets.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Den-O on August 14, 2010, 02:02:48 AM
Well, damn.  All Saki's info is valid, but I was sent a PM after night 0 saying that I had been hit with an ability that made my ability compulsory for the rest of the game.  Was holding that back along with the other role info since I didn't want to give any more information than necessary before LyLo.  Didn't even consider that Saki might be a rolecop instead of a tracker.

Anyway, realize that I'm basically guaranteed for lynch now.  Wouldn't put it past scum to have engineered this as some sort of entrapment scheme from the start, but that's probably stretching, and in any case it's not going to fly before my flip.  Not really anything more to say.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 02:21:55 AM
I doubt there's a role that'd make night actions compulsory, because most benefit town. And I doubly so doubt that they would hit precisely a target that has a role that does not benefit town on precisely night 0. Nonetheless.

If you're convinced you're town, and I've set you on the road to oblivion (and myself along with it, if so), then surely you don't mind spilling your Night 0 and Night 1 actions, as well the reason you chose never to speak up at night to make up for your terse participation in the day?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DiEnd on August 14, 2010, 02:26:59 AM
:words words words:
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8093/screamingsailormoonmemet.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/screamingsailormoonmemet.jpg/)

I'm sorry, but I've been waiting to do this since I signed up and I couldn't resist
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 14, 2010, 02:28:59 AM
Sandor, who did you target on N1?  I'm not sure if his ability, by the wording, can be used to reflect abilities back to the people who initiated them (is it possible for mod confirmation?), but I'm still not very certain about all of this, because technically, the Silver Medal is an object, not a role power.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Skull on August 14, 2010, 06:26:59 AM
Shawn Michaels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_iqtL4PPbI), The Heart Break Kid.

Willing to listen to that Clengane fellow's words. The more he talks the more information we can pump him for.
He'll get the good ol' Mason's vote at the end of the day, barring some ground breaking epiphany.

Now then, little school girl, how about we sit down and enjoy some corvid? What is your reaction to Steve's flip of town, when you made such a string of hypotheticals?

##Vote: Evangeline
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 14, 2010, 07:26:20 AM
I'm not entirely sure what to think of your reveal, Saki.

I'll grant that it's somewhat questionable, but it's also not the slam dunk that you think it is.  Reread the rules, specifically rule 1.  This is bastard moderation.  We have no idea how many roles are actually helpful to the side they were given to, or are useful if they are used as soon as they can be used, and it's entirely possible that whoever has that must use your power power is themselves forced to use it.

Saki, while I'm at it, what guarantee do we have that what you're told about your target is what your target is told about themselves?  Seems like the kind of trick a bastard mod would like to pull.  Having a power that would reveal hidden details of a power, and then watching folks distract themselves over false tells caused by the original target not knowing what his power really was, as well as possibly killing off a useful investigative role in the process.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 14, 2010, 11:47:36 AM
Personally, I think McClaine may be right.  Since this is a bastard mod game, the SIlver Medal thing may not have been caused by Sandor after all.  Compulsory bus drivers aren't inconceivable in this setup; and neither are Silver Medals that do not do as the mod says it does (for example).  Given the huge number of possibilities, I am more than willing to give the roleguessing a pass until later and judge Sandor by traditional methods, since I'm wary of how these sort of things tend to grind gameplay to a halt and allow scum to seat back and relax without much danger.  I know MoTK has been sniped in the back by these sort of things before, but judging by the circumstances (madness), I think we should not confine ourselves to Sandor today.  I can also understand how hiding the role may be beneficial to town (e.g having the chance to swtich out scum), though it is definitely beneficial to scum as well.

Of course, it would help very much for Sandor and Saki to tell us what they did with their roles on N0 and N1. 
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 14, 2010, 02:38:02 PM
Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Stuff Man, Stone Mason
Sandor Clgane (3): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury, Sailor Moon

No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shannon, John McClane

10 players alive means 6 votes will lynch. You have about 35.5 hours remaining.

Shannon has been prodded for inactivity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 02:55:31 PM
Eh, I don't think mentioning the entire scope of my role is useful at this venture. I don't want to fullclaim unless necessary. I wouldn't have partial-claimed if I didn't feel it necessary either, and I feel that a busdriver scum is harmful enough to town that we can't afford suffering them to live. It's not like it's ONLY the lying about the role right now and the far-fetched theory that someone can make roles compulsory and hit exactly the right person on Night 0.

And McClane, I... do not follow. I was told in excruciating detail precise mechanics of the role, and a negative condition put on him. He knew of this condition as he has abided by it all but twice this game, and I doubt he would not be informed of being able to talk at night or NOT use his role's powers.

Again, I iterate: there is unlikely to be a role that makes it COMPULSORY to act, because the nature of it makes it quite useless on all but a few town roles, such as vigilant and, indeed, a town busdriver. At worst, I can think of a demotivator of some sort, and that is easily solved:

Has anyone here experienced, at any night, a sudden handicap to their role or a negative adjustment to your role?

We already know just about everyone has a role. It's role madness after all, so it shouldn't be too rolefishery to add credence to Sandor's claim if you can.

If I'm scum taking a huge gambit to lynch a town Sandor here, it's in your best interest to act immediately and lend credence to his claim of being demotivated/compelled.  After all, for such a huge gambit there'd need to be a huge payoff, right?

If I'm town taking a chance by outing Sandor, and revealing part of my role (I can say I'm not a rolecop), then it's still in your best interest to lend credence to his claim as otherwise we could potentially lynch a Townie AND discredit someone with a powerrole that lets them at least see roles!

I don't believe such a person exists, or if they do, it must be a victim of scum. I just can't believe a townie is giving an inherently anti-town role, PLUS a night-talk role AND then a negative modifier; that's just shafting the player incredibly hard, and then also making only the busdrive part compulsory when hit by a negative ability?

That's really unbalanced and stretching it and if Sandor is genuinely town struck by the Evil Hand Of Mod, I would call this true and genuine shafting of players and it'd enter the territory of "Terrible Setup" to me. Redirecting town powers can lead to redirecting investigative roles. Redirecting investigative roles serves scum as town gets wrong information. The role serves no one but scum.

Sandor has been sparse and tight-lipped. Honestly, if he had such a debilitating role, I'd think he would've compensated for it. But he's done none of that. Do I need to dig up the case on him? Point out his Bandwagon HopTM on Day 1 with the "derp Shoe is so annoying he must be scum" reasoning?

It's obvious his claim is a ruse. A lie. He added the "compulsory" part because he knows the role is inherently anti-town, and I'd inquire as to WHY he would've used the role. He pre-empted it by making it "no reason, I am compulsory". He revealed it himself, he didn't know I hadn't actually tracked him and was just bluffing.

I'm convinced Sandor is scum. I will not settle for less than him, and put my foot down on that. I agree that information on others is important, but I don't feel any case but Sandor's is worth lynching today.

We CANNOT suffer a scum busdriver to live.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 14, 2010, 03:28:45 PM
Now then, little school girl, how about we sit down and enjoy some corvid? What is your reaction to Steve's flip of town, when you made such a string of hypotheticals?

##Vote: Evangeline

School girl?! I'll make you eat your words, old fool.

My response was along the lines of "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-----" followed by a facepalm when I saw the flip. And i'll tell you the same thing I told Stuffman. The 'string of hypotheticals' was showing how Scum!Steven would have been perfectly viable, since so many people were ready to convince his various scumtells as noob nulltells.


Has anyone here experienced, at any night, a sudden handicap to their role or a negative adjustment to your role?

Yes, I can confirm Miyako's story about being blocked from affecting Shannon N2, as using my rolepower on Shannon N2 came back with the same flavor 'did not work' message from the mod.

And i'd like to know Sandor's justification for the people he targeted on N1 as well, before I make my vote.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 04:16:06 PM
I actually meant a change to your ability, Evangeline. Something like,

"From now on, for the rest of the game, you can't target females!"

or

"You are no longer a Vigilante, you are COMPULSORY VIGILANT!"

Without specificying what exactly, of course. Simply an agreement that, yes, it seems there exists a role with the ability to power down/handicap/compel roles exists. This would corroborate Sandor's story and lend credence to his claim, for those who find themselves swayed by it.

I don't believe it's possible that he be conveniently hit with that on the very first Night. McClane may find it possible, but I think he errs too much on the side of paranoia instigation there.

I should not go around assuming my abilities be defunct or defective in some way, and Clegane already admitted that all I posted was accurate save for a detail of "compulsion". Not to mention, as I pointed out, he can redirect all of one person's actions to hit another person.

i.e. he could target me and fix my target to be Shannon, no matter what I do. Why did he risk swapping Sailor Moon and I? Wouldn't it have been infinitely convenient to redirect someone's powers to an intended target? If someone investigated Sailor Moon or me, their information would be inaccurate, but he would be unaware of whose information is inaccurate.

If he truly had Town's best interests at heart, he'd redirect a target's actions. No matter how you look at it, he's a considerate person by pre-empting the question, "Why did you bus drive at all?" with "It was compulsory". It indicates he knew the role was harmful to town, because normally when a tracker asks about your targets, you don't need to roleclaim COMPULSION at all.

Back to tangent. If he had Town interests at heart, he would re-direct a target's actions. First off, he knows WHO he's screwing with. Second off, if his target's redirection would result in the DEATH of the latter, he had reasonable grounds to suspect his target. He could investigate, in a way. With swapping two targets, he has no control over the number of people affected by this. For all we know everyone targeted me this night and all herpderpaloo'd on Sailor Moon by accident, or the reverse. This method gives him less control. I can't imagine someone who knows bus driving is risky business would opt for the route of lesser control.



My previous night actions, again, have no bearing on Sandor Clegane. I left no clues regarding my target as obvious as I did today, although I left a few subtle ones. Regardless, the ones who it might affect are not relevant players at this time, and the information may be useful at a later point.  That point is not now. Please do not pry me for more information unless you have good reason to believe it is vital to the here and now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 14, 2010, 04:49:19 PM
Ah, then no. No changes here.

I should not go around assuming my abilities be defunct or defective in some way, and Clegane already admitted that all I posted was accurate save for a detail of "compulsion". Not to mention, as I pointed out, he can redirect all of one person's actions to hit another person.

i.e. he could target me and fix my target to be Shannon, no matter what I do. Why did he risk swapping Sailor Moon and I? Wouldn't it have been infinitely convenient to redirect someone's powers to an intended target? If someone investigated Sailor Moon or me, their information would be inaccurate, but he would be unaware of whose information is inaccurate.

If he truly had Town's best interests at heart, he'd redirect a target's actions. No matter how you look at it, he's a considerate person by pre-empting the question, "Why did you bus drive at all?" with "It was compulsory". It indicates he knew the role was harmful to town, because normally when a tracker asks about your targets, you don't need to roleclaim COMPULSION at all.

Waitaminit.

The Bus Driver that you're describing and the bus driver i'm familiar with seem to be two different things. You're implying that his role selects two targets, and redirects their night actions to one another, right? But doesn't a normal bus driver swap two targets, so that night actions from anyone that are targeted at one are redirected to the other? 

I'll state again that I'd like to know of Sandor's N1 actions, and why.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 05:09:04 PM
Sandor's bus driver has two powers:

1) Swap two targets. i.e., if Person A and Person B are swapped. Person C targets Person A, but the ability will hit Person B. The reverse is also true.

2) Redirect a target's powers. i.e. Person A is targeted to always hit Person B. Persona A submits a night action to hit Person C, but his ability will hit Person B regardless.

Only one of these methods allows you to actually control the power and you know who are affected. Yes, it does mean one person's powers are screwed with without a doubt; but with the first method, you don't know how many are screwed. It's denying yourself information, and it's making your actions chaotic.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 05:19:40 PM
Did I also mention Sandor's busdriver can speak at night? Because I think it's important to realise he had every opportunity each night to correct his sparse and terse participations in the days, but he never did.

Especially if you consider today's
Quote
I've got more to say about actual scumhunting today, but caught Saki's post just now and want to get this out.
... he had every opportunity to release this information at night, same as with the first night when there was the Gamzee lynch and he had choice words to say about that. He's intentionally sitting in the background.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Decade on August 14, 2010, 08:49:09 PM
Shannon here.  I'm still completely dead.  My other head said he was going to post something last night, but he didn't, so have a placeholder from me.

First, re: the attacks on me.  I'm going to try to explain this again as clearly as possible:
-At the end of the day, regardless of what I did, either Gamezee or Shoe would be lynched.  That means, no matter where I put my vote, no matter how much I wanted someone else lynched, one of them would be lynched.
-In other words, leaving my vote on Sandor D1 would have been useless.
-So, I thought it would be better to vote for the train I preferred.  I thought Gamzee's wagon was less dumb than Shoe's so I voted for him.

It's not really any more complicated than that.  As for the other thing.....
Quote from: Miyako Miyamura
Scum can self-preserve, and so can town
In other words, you're calling me scummy for something that is a complete null tell. :| 

Regarding the Silver Medal, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have been passed to me regardless of what Sandor did.  It wouldn't have been passed to me regardless of what anyone did really.

Regarding Saki vs. Sandor, I see no possible scenario where Saki does not know Sandor's role.  If she was just bluffing on more than knowing his targets I don't think he would have acted that way.  His reaction, the scummy nature of the role, and the fact that he's been extremely scummy since D1 makes me comfortable doing this.

##Vote Sandor Clegane (L-2)

I have a two quick questions for Saki though.  You only need to answer yes or no since I don't really know the details.  Did you target Sandor N1?  If no, is it possible for you to hit multiple targets on the same night (IE, could you get the info on Sandor and still target someone else)?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 09:21:30 PM
It's... unknown to me why this information is useful. I'm a bit... well, you've surely seen my hesitation at willingness to share my role specifics. It's a bit of a weird role.

Is it important information to know?


I'll be gone in two hours or so, and will be until sunday afternoon. I'm not sure if I can make it back in before deadline, so any loose ties you want from me should be cleared up soon-ish.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Decade on August 14, 2010, 09:25:49 PM
Yes, because based on what I know this situation is weird.  I just need to know if you either targeted Sandor N1 and not N2, or if it was possible for you to get info on him and still target someone else at the same time.  Yes or no is fine.

I'd rather not elaborate any more than that, but if I have to I can.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 14, 2010, 09:27:55 PM
Then the answer is "No", on both accounts. I did not target Sandor prior to N2, and I did not target anyone besides Sandor on N2.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 14, 2010, 10:12:49 PM
Just putting it out there that i'm 99% sure that i'll be dropping my vote on Sandor. I'm just withholding in the off-chance Sandor has something useful to contribute before he gets hammered, and the off-off-chance we're horribly mistaken that he's scum (doubt there's anything that can come up changing anyone's case on him, but eh.)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 15, 2010, 04:26:27 AM
Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Stuff Man, Stone Mason
Sandor Clgane (4): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury, Sailor Moon, Shannon

No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane

10 players alive means 6 votes will lynch. You have about 20.5 hours remaining.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Decade on August 15, 2010, 12:36:24 PM
Urgh, this has been an awful day to start with, and that's before Fairy Wars giving me another distraction to deal with. Anyway. Warning: no time, need to be somewhere in like -1 minutes, will be back in 4 hours, will also elaborate on any points that I am asked about then.

First thing I'm a bit perplexed with is Miyako's post shortly after the Steven lynch, mainly because of a fairly convincing case on Sailor Moon followed by a call to lynch me, which is fine, except the reasoning is that it's principally as an informational lynch, but you only really do informational lynches when they're either absolutely damning and have a high yield (if this one does, I sure as heck am not seeing it - at best it will make her more likely to be scum if I do flip scum, but given that she seems scummier, really, eh.), or if you have nothing else to go off of, but that is clearly not the case, as you spend the majority of your post writing up a case on someone else that is actually (at least as far as I can tell) quite decent.

Okay, things to make sense of so far, for today (argh I have to be somewhere in 30 minutes this is not going to be very detailed for now): Miyako: there is a huge difference between voting for someone not on one of the two main wagons near deadline when the people involved are both not-you, and voting for someone not on one of the two main wagons near deadline when the alternative is getting yourself lynched. I'm not seeing how I could get any more blatant here, I am going to bandwagon someone else at deadline if the only alternative is getting myself lynched (and let's face it, do you really think that an alternate wagon could have developed and led to a lynch in that time frame?), then I will vote them regardless, simply because as town the only person I know to be town with 100% certainty as myself (and if I'm scum, the reasoning for why I would do such an action is blindingly obvious, so yeah), and thus to me lynching possibly-not-town is inherently superior over lynching guaranteed town.

Not even going to bother spending any more time on this issue, it is not only a waste of time but also something that seems blindingly obvious as to why it's a bad argument. (As for RL reasons, come on. Seriously).

I'm fairly unnerved as to your claim that the mod lied to you, but that's more of an "oh god what" than anything else.

Further cases: Evangeline is somewhat bad for D2 stuff, but I'm not sure what to make of her D3 stuff. Miyako is not so much my top pick for scum as my top pick for "okay, what?" - she seems to live in a parallel universe or something from what I've noted of her comments. Not terribly pleased about Sailor Moon's claim of waffling, not terribly pleased with her posts either.

Right around this point we get to the Sandor/Saki merry festival of what-the-fuck. I am far more inclined to conisder Sandor as lying ("hit by an ability that makes your action compulsory"? yeah no), particularly because he was low-content, low-volume so far, but he seemed to be a bit on the noob end of things and the little content he contributed was reasonable, so he's been off my radar thusfar.

The problem comes with McClane's post. Having never played in a bastard mod game, and being used to things being nice and internally consistent and generally sensible, I'd normally consider Saki's plan either the most daring gambit, or basically a total slam dunk. Despite this, their interaction still has managed to incriminate Sandor on that basis alone (I will get into this more in a later post, somewhat in a hurry currently). However, I'm not sure how much to make of the role-specific details myself.

The thing about Saki though is that she has claimed an absolutely ridiculous amount of highly specific details here - at worst, she has utterly tied herself to his flip, so on the off-chance that he flips town, it's very likely she's scum. Conversely, Miyako stated that Sandor should also be judged by "traditional methods" - but traditional methods also states that the proper course of action is to lynch the fuck out of him: his posts thusfar have been fairly low-content, low-volume and he also seems to have flat-out given the fuck up right now (though this is more of a nulltell than anything else, and me mentioning this is more just annoyance at him, well, having given up). Honestly, even without this silver medallion nonsense he'd make a passable lynch for today (though before this, I was far more wary of Miyako and Sailor Moon than him), when combined with it, it easily pushes him up to first.

That being said, Sailor Moon's actions throughout the whole of this day bother me, but that is for another post which shall be in a couple hours as I have to go off to attend to the needs of a certain rather obnoxious cook right about now!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 15, 2010, 03:03:17 PM
@Shkannon: ... Interesting set of posts, but I have to say that my call to lynch you is not really purely informational; even without the self-preservation thing, I have other reasons, such as your D2 cases which I feel are pretty weak and scummy for reasons I have already stated(which you (or you guys) have completely dropped, adding to my suspicions), and your D1 Sandor vote amidst a Gamzee-Shoe bandwagon tie of 4-4 which feels like a distraction (especially since Mason voted Gamzee that day for no reasoning at all, as opposed to Sandor's vote on Shoe for bad reasoning.) Not voting for Mason for the same reasons you voted for Sandor seemed to me as an attempt to evade suspicion on the next day). Lastly, you never elaborated on why Shoe was so alright on D1 for you to defend her so valiantly; you gave generalities in your defense, but nothing specific.  All of these fit into my idea of scummy play. 

After some thought, I guess I'm willing to drop the self-preservation thing, but the other points still stand in me voting you, and I don't think these could be righted very easily with explanation.

One question I would like to ask is why didn't you vote Mason on D1 instead of Sandor?

---

As for traditional methods, Shkannon's wariness with voting Sandor earlier before today is exactly what I garnered using those methods... he seemed like a newcomer with passable D2 stuff.  But with Sandor not answering any of the many questions today and seemingly giving up completely, I'll have to relent that he is a very good lynch for today.  Especially if he has not given any information to help us in believing him.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Kiva-la on August 15, 2010, 04:08:35 PM
Spotty internet connection + busy = bad for mafias. Sorry 'bout not being around, thought I'd get more time, not less. My bad.

Anyways, about this huge mess that's turned up, well... it's pretty clear that someone protected Shannon from night actions last night. And to me, that is a scummy power to have. And unless it has some sort of restriction like "can only be used on Town" (which I wouldn't put past even a moderately bastard mod game) that, to me, incriminates Shannon. Will very gladly vote her off tomorrow unless a much more compelling case comes around.

Also, John, you're third on my list for reasons I stated previously combined with your post of pure fearmongering. All you did was defend Sandor in what was clearly a lie; even if he was telling the truth about who he targeted and what his power was, the compulsory bit is a lie and we all damn well know it. You didn't try to make any other cases, you didn't try to accuse him yourself, all you did was defend the possibility that it's all in our minds, and you know what I have to say to that? You being scum is in my mind, too, and I just can't seem to get it out... Will most likely be lynching John after Shannon and Sandor unless, again, more compelling cases come around. Though I'd have to say there'd have to be some pretty damn incriminating evidence.

Anyway, will hopefully be around later to see this through to the end. I believe I have made my stances abundantly clear, and if I die tonight (will likely be Saki, but I'm still scared nonetheless) I would appreciate people fulfilling my dying wishes and taking a serious look at Shannon and John and hopefully, please, killing them. I am convinced they are scum, and it would take a lot to make me look the other way. Like, say, if I were to suddenly become a Confirmed Mason with both of them. That is how sure I am, and I will gladly eat crow for being wrong if I'm wrong, because damn do I suspect them. Actually, no. I won't eat crow. Because that implies I feel bad about killing them off, which I don't. So, yeah. [/broughtoyoubyyourfriendlyneighbourhoodrazeluxemanandthecrimefightingcompanions]
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Kiva-la on August 15, 2010, 04:15:59 PM
EBWOP: It's clear that someone protected shannon last night because we have two people both saying they tried to do something to her and it failed, and unless scum is really that willing to tie themselves down (It's definitely a winning trade for Town, even if only one of them is scum) then we have it confirmed that night actions on Shannon last night failed.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: W on August 15, 2010, 04:29:32 PM
If you guys are already set on Lynching Sandor, then put the L-1 and I'll hammer to gain an extra vote tomorrow. I doubt scum have the manpower to be going all in the way Saki is doing. Sandor going quiet seems like a repeat of Gamzee now.

I think Sandor's flip, if it is scum, should give us insight on the people that jumped off him onto Steven yesterday.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 15, 2010, 04:43:03 PM
I... don't like the idea of giving someone an extra vote if we can't be sure they aren't scum, and i'm doubly worried that you act like we should just accept this without question. Kinda glad that my vote got ninja'd just now.

And where did Stone Mason disappear off to anyway? He drops a vote on me and just drops off the map. Hell, same with you StuffMan.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: W on August 15, 2010, 06:47:41 PM
I'm not hiding the fact that I can get an extra vote, unlike whoever's been handing out Silver Medals and Shawn Michaels.

I consider you responsible for the Steven counterwagon to Sandor.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 15, 2010, 07:14:53 PM
You're right that we don't know what's up with the Silver Metal.  However, we've got some pretty tacit confirmation that Shawn Michaels was a penalty vote thanks to Saki's information and Sangor not claiming that she was lying through her teeth, which any competent player would do in that situation.  Specifically, it's the night talking she's got me on, since his lack of surprise at that being mentioned, coupled with his not using it, at all, despite claiming some wistfulness at not having enough time to talk.

Count me convinced that she caught something fishy.

I'd drop a vote on him, however, I'd still like to hear him answer the questions about what he's done the previous nights as it'll be useful on the off chance that the case on him is wrong.  And I really don't like how eager Stuffman is to get the lynching vote.  After all, both sides might have triggers they need to fulfill before they can do anything.

On that note.  Since I should make a placeholder vote, might as well put it somewhere useful.  So vote for McClane, he's the right man for the wrong time!

##Vote: John McClane
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 15, 2010, 08:25:43 PM
I'm not hiding the fact that I can get an extra vote, unlike whoever's been handing out Silver Medals and Shawn Michaels.

...and that makes you ObvTown because..? It still makes me feel uncomfortable to just blindly surrender you a double vote.

Quote
I consider you responsible for the Steven counterwagon to Sandor.

I'd hope so, since i'm not trying to hide it and it isn't exactly a secret. His host of scumtells were nulltells after all, but I still stand by the fact that I thought it was the strongest case at the time. And stronger than the case on Sandor was back then.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Kaku Seiga on August 15, 2010, 09:30:06 PM
(Star, watch Luna 'til I get back, 'kay? Last time we left her on her own she got the snake lady mad and...well, y'know how that went.)

Uh, hey, guys. Name's Sunny Milk, and I'm a Fairy War veteran! By which I totally don't mean I'm running away from the enemy. 'Cause that'd just be cowardly. Yeah.

...What do you mean it was obvious I was lying? You couldn't see my fingers crossed behind my back!

But, uh, yeah, I'm sorta in hiding right now. Cirno is scary when she gets going, but me and the frog lady have a common enemy in her, so she let the three of us hide here until she gets bored and gives up on the war. She's not that bad, I guess.

Though her hat is kinda silly...wonder what'd happen if I borrowed it when she wasn't looking.

Anyway, since she isn't around, she told me to check up on you guys and keep track of your voting stuff. I don't understand how this is anything like war - why are you talking instead of fighting? You people are weird.

Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Stuff Man, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (4): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury, Sailor Moon, Shannon
John McClane (1): John McClane

No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell

There are...lessee, 1, 2...10 of you, so I guess you'd need 6 to lynch. Luna gets to be strong again in 3 and a half hours.

Aw, crap, is that rain? Sorry, I gotta run back inside - rain and I don't go well together. Later!

This post is solely flavour besides the vote count. Pay it no mind and carry on.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Sasword on August 15, 2010, 09:40:51 PM
I have the feeling that all this flamboyant posting is a result of everyone fulfilling some conditions and stuff.  I guess He (the mod) has the whole world in his hands after all.

I don't like how Raz is nulling all scumhunting in favor of rampant role-guessing and stuff like this.  There are a few holes in his theories (e.g Shkannon could have been town and had the ability to reflect stuff automatically or something like that), and I feel that implicating Shkannon on roles alone is rather wonky and awkward.  And it's perfectly fine to express some weirdness at things (I for one, also feel that the compulsory part might not be off the rails for the mod)... painting McClaine as scum for that alone also seems rather forced as well.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: W on August 15, 2010, 09:41:41 PM
I won't be around for deadline and your reluctance to secure the lynch is quite certainly scummy.

##Unvote
##Vote Sandor

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ouja on August 15, 2010, 09:58:40 PM
I'm back and my mind is full of fuck for the moment.

I'll just state that I would prefer not to give StuffMan the extra vote due to uncertainty over his alignment. I do appreciate his honesty in the matter, but honestly getting 3 votes extra if we'd let him lynchvote each day means he would've been able to one-man hammer later on, and if that's a scum ability I am rather afraid. :P

RE: Reluctance to lynch Sandor... oh come on. No majority = no lynch. We must have that hammer.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 15, 2010, 10:14:03 PM
Scummy. Riiight. Whatever you say, StuffMan. :/

##Vote:Sandor
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 16, 2010, 01:20:42 AM
Phone posting, so little detail.

Sandor Clegane, Scum Crazy Taxi, was lynched by majority!

It's now Night 3. You all know what to do.

Really late edit, but here's the End of Day 3 Vote Chart.

Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Stuff Man, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (6): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury, Sailor Moon, Shannon, Stuff Man, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (1): John McClane
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 3
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 17, 2010, 02:15:22 AM
Well, you guys have done pretty well so far. Things don't appear to be over yet, though. You'll notice last night was quiet? Well...at least she'll always live on in your memories.

Miyako Miyamura, Town Streetlife Serenader, was killed overnight!

Day 4 has begun!

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch. Don't forget that you need a majority. No majority = No Lynch. You have 72 hours. Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: DiEnd on August 17, 2010, 03:13:36 AM
Sorry about kind of not existing yesterday. On the upside, since Sandor was p.much guaranteed lynch it isn't a huge loss, but I promised rereads that never came. Time to make up!

We have two flipped scum. Looking for association is a great way to find the other(s?), on top of normal scumhunting. First, I think I'll check Shannon (for obvious reasons).

Her first post doesn't set off any alarms for me. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402427.html#msg402427) Oh wait, she's voting Sandor when either Gamzee or Shoe will almost surely be lynched. Not that there's anything wrong with that in itself, plenty of time till deadline left, it's possible for a new wagon to grow... although, it also seems like a safe time to place your vote on someone you know is your scumbuddy so you can be like "hay I voted them d1 remember" in the future if they're lynched and flipped, while not actually risking their lynch with the vote itself.

Then her second post[url] is perfectly logical. It also consists of things that are fairly easy to see, the obvious decision of voting Gamzee instead of Shoe (and his lynch was p.much ensured at that point), and it's her only other D1 post. Wait, she only had two D1 posts, the second being something anyone sensible could make? That's not particularly scummy by itself, although it doesn't look great either. Moving on to D2.

D2, she jumps onto the growing Sandor wagon. Yay bussing? Or legitimate townie trying to lynch scum? Well, she did vote him D1 too. Then, again, her second and only other post during the day is a jump onto Steven with nothing else. However, jumping onto Steven is perfectly fine (Not Me instead of Me) plus she said she just got out of the ER, and... well, I'd like to think people wouldn't lie about things like that. Even if you did lie about not being able to play, you could do something less extreme.

[url=http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409842.html#msg409842]D3 time.[/quote]
 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402427.html#msg402427)
Quote
Regarding the Silver Medal, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have been passed to me regardless of what Sandor did.  It wouldn't have been passed to me regardless of what anyone did really.
Sounds like she's roleclaiming some kind of power that protects her from stuff. Neato.

Her defense and the vote on Sandor are pretty straightforward anyone-in-this-position-should-do-this, so they're boring and nulltell. What she says to Saki sounds like roleclaiming... some kind of investigative role...? It's somewhat hard to tell, with how she words it, and there already one townie rolecop (Saki), but she seems to know at least part of Saki's role.

This D3 post is basically all nulltell unless you want to start speculating the setup, given her seeming-to-be-maybe roleclaims and us knowing (part of) Saki and Sandor's roles. Onto the next one. Oh my, it's large. I need to be going to bed, gotta start school again tomorrow ;_;

Well, I don't see much to say about this post actually (Except for maybe defense of myself), and I don't have the time at the moment to analyze it heavily or do said defense.

In finality, I could see Shannon being town or scum, as I do see good reasons for why scum would do the things she has done, but I haven't noticed actual scumtells either.

G'night people, see you halfway through tomorrow to look at others and give a vote!

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: DiEnd on August 17, 2010, 03:14:21 AM
ebwop:oh crap I messed up the coding ): Sorry, didn't preview it because I'm trying to rush to bed.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Skull on August 17, 2010, 03:56:24 AM
John, are yous sure you against the Yasaka Terrorists?

You have been wrong in almost outcome, having the same reasoning as scum in D1, defending a scum hop onto the Town Train D1, being on a Town Train D1, pushing for a mis-lynch D2, being on a mis-lynch D2, and defending scum caught in a lie D3? Furthermore, what in tarnation was the self vote at the end of the day? Did it give you a machine gun to fight off Yasaka? You have been talking fairly clean, but in light of all these flips, is it a coincidence?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 17, 2010, 09:12:31 AM
Pretty sure I'm no terrorist, but the only quibble I'd raise against ya is Day 3, and I didn't state my thoughts clear enough at the time to really expect anyone to believe me.  As for the machine gun, well, I won't say what I was aiming for, but I will say that someone else got to it first.  Namely, I got roleblocked last night.  Though, with my history, I'm not going to speculate as to which team the roleblocker was on.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Decade on August 17, 2010, 10:58:19 AM
Kanon here. Going to be gone all day again (though will be back in the late evening, and hopefully should be around somewhat more often from that point onwards), so getting this post out now. My other half should still be around to post today, if any questions need immediate answering. Anyway.

First off, answers to Miyako's questions, or at least the ones that might actually still be relevant (there are others that were just silly and what I'm going to chalk up to Miyako being Miyako (i.e. painfully stubborn for no clear reason whatsoever.)):

I actually did start out this reread assuming that Razeluxe Meitzen was likely scum, based on his stunningly wonderful (read: godawfully terrible) play at the end of D3, but going back through his posts they are on the whole not only surprisingly reasonable, but I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of them during both D1 and D2 (yes, even including his accusation of my other half as scum. It was not the best case in the world, but those posts certainly were far too wordy in a bad way. Admittedly, this was due to RL factors that are now thankfully resolved) - his claim about voting for the person you consider the scummiest irrespective of the actual trains around is something that both myself and Shannon certainly can agree with, and quite honestly, trying to pin people as scum because they're not around all the time is aggravating to no end (speaking as someone that has a tendency to not always be around himself, due to various circumstances, both online and IRL, mostly due to scheduling/whatnot).

Anyway, he then goes into what the flying fuck, dude? mode near the end of D3. Apart from posting little (though that is a charge that can be applied to many of us, so it is somewhat excusable, especially considering that Touhou 12.8 ~ Great Fairy Wars came out around the time of D3), his post before the end of the day... it just doesn't fit. Every other one of his posts is reasonable, and considers various rational arguments for townieness/scumminess, and always emphasizes scumhunting over information, and the like, and then out of nowhere he tries to claim that I am scum in need of lynching due to... a role speculation argument. About a role someone else *might* have (it's certainly not a certainty, unless there's something you're not telling us), and used on me that... doesn't do anything that's blatantly scummy to begin with, really, anyway. It's just so, so BAD and so out-of-nowhere compared to all the rest of his posts that nothing makes sense about it.

So in the end I'm actually going to consider him as town based off of everything else, because that last post doesn't even make him more likely to be scum as more likely to be clinically schizophrenic or something. Seriously, I'd love an explanation behind why you thought that line of reasoning made any sense at all, and also why you avoided commenting on the Sandor/Saki mess for almost the entirety of the day (admittedly, he did state that he was quite comfortable with a Sandor lynch and was planning to do so in the immediate future if needed, but I'm still curious on what he thinks of the role-related rigmarole, since he seems to like doing that as of very recently :P).

To answer Razeluxe, Miyako, and everyone else who keeps asking why I think that Shoe's actions don't imply her being likely to be scum: it's due to meta. I know who is playing that account. In fact, it's practically painfully obvious as to who is playing behind that account if you've spent any time here playing in MoTK Mafia games or even just reading them, so I'm amazed that some people can't figure out who Unlimited Rage Works is. Oh well.

John McClane is just "what", and also fairly low in content, and also tried to get people away from voting Sandor D3, which is certainly worrying. Will have to reread him when I have more actual time, grumble. Not sure what I make of Evangeline A.K. McDowell, or Mr.Mason, for that matter, at this point. I think that both Saki and Sailor Moon are likely to be town, though that can still change based on their actions today. Anyone I didn't mention I either still haven't gotten a read on, or haven't had time to properly reread their posts and think about what their alignment could be, based off of their actions, yet.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Kiva-la on August 17, 2010, 02:09:55 PM
Urgh, yeah, sorry. Every now and then I just hit this weird mental space where everything seems to make sense and it feels like I have everything all figured out. Need to learn to stop myself when that happens. Anyway, please ignore my last post of D3. Like Kanon said, it's just me being crazy.

As for Saki/Sandor role shenanigans yesterday, I'm... not too sure about that. Saki clearly has some form of rolecop power, but it could be one of many crazy combinations, as the mod has clearly proven via Night-talking Bus-driver. Not gonna try to analyze it any more than is necessary, since that was either Saki being clearly town, or Saki pulling one of the gutsiest scum gambits in history, wherein she busses one of her scumbuddies with amazing accuracy, knowing they'll turn up scum, thus earning massive amounts of townie cred and hoping that we wouldn't suspect the power because of Role Madness. (Oh, and I didn't comment on it more because I wasn't really around between my post prior to the mess, and after it. And by the time I'd arrived, it had been pretty thoroughly gone through; only thing that stuck out was McClane, which I did comment on. Aside from that, I said everything I felt I really could add to it.)

Ugh, I can't think right now. Tired. Will be around tomorrow (IRL version) with a lot more sleep under my belt. Also, with more to read and comment on. G'night~
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 17, 2010, 09:20:28 PM
Not much to contribute right now, hopefully will have more later tonight when my schedule frees up a little bit. Though if anyone has questions for me specifically then feel free and i'll try to get to them.

D3 time.Sounds like she's roleclaiming some kind of power that protects her from stuff. Neato. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409842.html#msg409842)

I can confirm that it's probably a persistent protection ability, as my rolepower on Shannon N2 and N3 failed both times. (and yes, i'm roleclaiming a pretty useless ability here since my repeat attempt N3 was mainly to confirm suspicions).

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 17, 2010, 10:20:37 PM
Amusingly, Shannon does have an Anonyvote on her regardless.

I've been a bit busy today. I'm surprised I haven't died, actually. Do we all agree there are 3 or 4 scum? If there's 3, I'm fairly sure it can't be McClane if he's roleblocked. If McClane is scum, there must be 4. If he isn't, there must be 3.

Not too fond of Razeluxe's "Lol massive scumgambit" shenanigans. However, willing to pass him the town baton. Reading Clegane's posts, he has attacked Razeluxe quite a bit and said little of people not Shoe, Steven, Raze and Shannon. This is worrisome, because it means he managed to stay off-radar the entire bloody game.

Speaking of someone who managed to stay off-radar...

StuffMan! You appeared before and after I dropped the bomb, and your after has no indication whatsoever of agreeing anything. You were just treating it like an outside business for you, going around asking people if we were going to go with Clegane and asking for the hammer to power up. What was up with that?

In fact, you've wasted all of Day 1 on wordplaying with me, Day 2 has a vote on Shannon and one other post, Day 3 has a vote on Evangeline (and a mention of Sandor, all things fair) and the weird stuff at the end.

##VOTE: StuffMan

Can I convince you to come out early today and start scumhunting? Your case on Shannon was already so non-descript and weird, and I really want to see you stop lurking and start adding to the scene.



As for others, not too fond of Sailor Moon either. I think the way she IMMEDIATELY accepted my story and went about flaunting to Sandor how he was going to go is a bit suspiciously eager. I'll admit I was equally enthusiastic about having caught scum, but at least I knew I was absolutely not lying!



Is anyone else amused Shoe called Gamzee AND Sandor on D1? :p
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 17, 2010, 10:21:35 PM
Er rather, if McClane isn't scum I guess there can still be four. I'll work assuming four scum in mind then, unless someone has better maths for Town:Scum ratios. I've never been good at that.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Kiva-la on August 17, 2010, 10:47:59 PM
EBWOP (while I'm between naps): I meant to say "shenanigans" not "debauchery," and as for the whole thing about Saki/Sandor shenanigans, that was my long-winded way of saying I view it as a nulltell, though I do lean town, because seriously, that is one stupidly risky gambit to even think about trying. All it takes is one person finding a hole in your story an you've just killed half the team. Blah. Anyway, back to sleep.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 17, 2010, 10:53:46 PM
Apologies, a forum word filter was to blame for that. It's been removed for the time being.

Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (1): Saki Marimi

No vote placed: Everyone else

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch. There are about 54.5 hours left in Day 4.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 17, 2010, 11:14:35 PM
I'm surprised I haven't died, actually. Er rather, if McClane isn't scum I guess there can still be four. I'll work assuming four scum in mind then, unless someone has better maths for Town:Scum ratios. I've never been good at that.

I figured the reason you didn't die because you'd be the obvious choice for a doctor to protect. And I was trying to figure out town/scum ratios earlier too. The game archive doesn't help aside from putting 15 players in the ambiguous 3/4 scum zone, with pretty much every game higher being 4+ and every game with less being 3. My gut feeling is three with powerful scum roles to balance it out, but this game has really been making me question my gut feeling so i'm operating under the assumption of four. >_>;

I'm interested in seeing more from Stuffman today aside from inane cases and last-minute chiming in. But i'll put out a prod for something else right now:

##Vote: Stone Mason

Where've you been anyway? Your only post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409402.html#msg409402) on Day 3 was a prod at me, and asides from that you've been generally low-activity. I know you were 4th on the Gamzee bandwagon D1, but it still makes me wonder.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 12:18:25 AM
4 scum, then. It'd be so nice if Evangeline and McClane were scum, so we'd have all four scum on Shoe in D1. >_>

3 scum would clear McClane to me, but as it stands with a 4 scum idea in my head, I'm curious how he'll explain never getting on Clegane the other day, and being so hesitant to vote Clegane despite mentioning suspicions of Clegane all game long! It's a major contradiction in your behaviour and I'd like to see the clarifications.



So yeah, the people I want to hear from today are StuffMan on who he thinks is scum and some active scumhunting, Sailor Moon on why she so readily believed what I said and triumphantly pranced about with the picture, McClane on his apparent hesitation for voting Clegane yesterday. Re-reading the entiriety of D1 now with the new Clegane info.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Skull on August 18, 2010, 01:33:46 AM
The drought of words later in Day 3 would arise from my cleaning out the quarry and toolshed, and coming back to find people tied up the loose ends without me (which isn't surprising considering I was gone for more than 24 hours).

Again, I was elbowing in on you to re-dress the Steven issue, but your thought process was much more evident than Sandor's, who picked up your words quick-like, but didn't show any of his own work when I prodded him. Furthermore, his clear of not only himself, but of three other people here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406033.html#msg406033) really isn't something cautious town should say to clear yourself. It was more than just Saki's gambit that had me believing Sandor was scum.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 18, 2010, 02:08:45 AM
Eh, that's reasonable. Can't say I contributed that much Day 3 either for similar reasons. Not feeling incredibly confident about my scumhunting skills with my first two big pushes both flipping town (though I guess D1 is still D1, but still.). Switching my vote to reinforce Saki's prod then.

##Unvote
##Vote: StuffMan

One thing that caught my eye when skimming D1 is John McClane's defense of Sandor here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402962.html#msg402962), specifically how strong it seems when Sandor had only posted one time before then.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 18, 2010, 02:28:06 AM
Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (2): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell

No vote placed: Everyone else

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch. There are about 48 hours left in Day 4. (Previous vote chart time count was incorrect.)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: DiEnd on August 18, 2010, 05:04:19 AM
It's 12:20 AM by the time I start making a post, what the hell is wrong with me.

Stone Mason I'll let pass for the moment because of being the swing vote, looks like lots of people are looking at Evangeline (or I'm being schizophrenic but whatever, any target works I suppose) so I'll analyze her next. Although since her post count is larger, I'm not going to be going post-by-post big comprehensiveness.

First, @Saki:Your case was incredibly convincing, was it not? I didn't like Sandor already, and you brought information that, in my eyes, labeled him as practically confirmed scum. And on the offchance he flipped town, well, you would suddenly look very scummy yourself instead! Win/win, although with less win on the latter and far less likely possibility.

Lying about his role is a major scumtell, and he looked scummy already. Need I say more?

The "quote post, respond with gtfo.jpg" may have been a bit uncalled for, but, I'd kind of been waiting for a chance to do that since I signed up :V I simply couldn't resist such a golden opportunity. I want to have my own little Shoe moment, too! You should try it, it's fun no

Mmk, Evangeline readings.

D1, I can definitely see where her reasoning is coming from, it looks fine to me; the problem is only lies in that she said Gamzee's wagon was bad and unappealing, and stayed on the Shoe wagon, the flips of whom we both have, and, well... yeah. At this point, she could certainly just be scum that got a nice case on Shoe (Most of the other shoe cases, with knowledge of who her player is, kind of suxed, IMO. Oh well.) As with Shannon, though, there isn't anything that strikingly makes her scum either. How vexing, I don't want to get multiple reads of that.

D2 time. Oh my, here we go into the case on Steven, which largely gets going because of Evangeline's case. I'm biased here, because nooblynches are not my favorite lynches unless they've done something REALLY damning, so actively driving a case on a newbie just seems like a scummy action to me. She puts a lot into a Gamzee/Steven link due to Gamzee knowing Steven is new; I can assume Evangeline just didn't know about the irc stuff revealing Steven being... yeah, so, I guess that can pass even though being a little stretchy, and as I've said, it wasn't too bad for a newbie case. But I still don't like people who actively drive newbie cases. Newbies are too easy of a target for scum to go for.

After refreshing my mind on D2... yeah, not liking Evangeline much. D3 now.  Eh, nothing of much interest to note here, or afterwards; her D4 posts so far don't help me read her without flips on them. I feel worse about Evangeline then Shkannon, and bad enough to feel fine about voting her, at least for now; interesting points are being brought up on McClane, so I want to look at him when I get the chance tomorrow...

##Vote:Evangeline



Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: W on August 18, 2010, 05:00:10 PM
I've mentioned before that I would be busy and in fact don't have the time to be paying my full attention to the game. Finding a replacement is a hassle that I'll never put on the mod unless the circumstance is unavoidable.

First off, we are not in LyLo so why did it take everyone this long to put down a vote anywhere? There's 2 flipped scum already so I doubt there's any chance of a quickhammer, on myself even.

My Day 1 case wasn't good, but you know it yourself that there was nothing scummy about it. I didn't agree with the case on Steven for Day 2. Sailor Moon has already put what I had in mind on Day 2 about Evangeline's case in better words.

To continue the case on Evangeline from yesterday: Sandor started the wagon on Steven. Evangeline came in with the Gamzee-coaching theory that I called a poor stretch to paint Steven scummy. Sandor was at 4 votes when the Steven wagon began. Evangeline took her vote off Sandor to give Steven momentum. That's Sandor 3 and Steven 2, with the call of attention to make Steven look even worse, it wasn't hard to get Steven to hang for Sandor that day.

Today, what good is your prodvote going to do? If you want someone to post, ask the mod to send them a reminder and use your vote for lynching.

##Vote Evangeline
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 18, 2010, 07:08:52 PM
@SM/Stuff: I didn't push the case on Steven because of his noob status, I pushed it despite his noob status. What bothered me the most about Steven was everyone's general willingness to dismiss him as noob mistakes, when it's perfectly reasonable for a noob to be on the scum team as well. Let me find some examples (bolds mine):

@Steven: The problem with your posting is you contradict yourself every paragraph. Even when you vote, you're saying it in such a way that hedges your bets. I'd prefer you to take more solid stances and own your positions. It makes you seem less shifty. Only reason I'm not jumping on you for it is I read you as newb town at this time.

Shoe is obvtown, and Steven is derp. Sandor is lurky, I'd like to see more from him so I could get a better read.

I'd also like to hear Steven Stone's thoughts of the previous day and everything up to here so we can at least take him into consideration. Honestly all he is to me right now is a bunch of newbie mistakes, and I want to see that change into "more analysis", or at least "more participation". We won't lynch you for being stupid at this stage, that's reserved for D1.

Steven, Steven Steven, can you grace us with your presence and talk about the previous day. Who do you think is scum. I recall Gamzee attacked Shoe after she attacked you on your roleguessing excuse, I want enough out of you to determine if Gamzee was pulling chainsaw defence or attempting to get a mislynch on Shoe. (given how rubbish I think the case on Shoe was/is I am not entirely convinced you're town, after some consideration! Derp only goes so far and I definitely don't feel it's a free pass!)

That shouldn't be the only thing keeping you from pursuing a case on somebody, especially when scum could use it to their advantage no problem.  When I was looking for a case to pursue on D2, Steven stood out to me. His actions coupled by other's comments, and that something that caught my eye when going over Gamzee's speech, made me decide to go with it. And yeah, I bought Sandor's explanation (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg405922.html#msg405922) for his actions in D1 and turned my focus elsewhere to what caught my eye. Which was Steven.

And if you notice, I didn't even focus on noobtells, but the scumtells that stood out despite them. Namely, being chainsaw defended by Gamzee early on + his voting patterns. Steven was an early target that got defended by scum, dropped off the radar until coming back later to throw a bandwagon swinging vote on Shoe, then hopping off the bandwagon once John McClane jumps off putting Gamzee in the lead. It was dumb of me to assume that this was completely anonymous, but I figured since Steven Stone was new to Mafia then most people here wouldn't be familiar with him, and thus his 'new' status wouldn't be known to everyone from the getgo.

And I'm not even sure if i'm using the term correctly here, but Steven's deal seemed like WIFOM to me. "If he's town, then his noobiness might explain his scumtells. But then again, that's exactly what scum would WANT you to think." So I chose to focus on the scumtells I saw (voting patterns and lurking), and ignoring the noobiness as enhancing or destroying credibility while laying out a viable scenario for Scum!Steven. Which is important, since one of the first questions you ask when considering a person's alignment is "Well how do you explain why they did ____?", or basically, their scum intent. There was nothing I saw out of Steven that confirmed him as obvTown, except for the noobiness which I already explained why it's a bad tell either way.

So... yeah. I think that's all I have to say, but i'm still open for inquiry. I have nothing to hide.


@Stuff: I'm not going to have the mod send a reminder to someone when they just posted the other day, y'know. Of the remaining players you stick out most to me, thus vote on you.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 07:23:39 PM
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: McClane


Only one more of my trio needs to answer!

Evangeline, when did your suspicions re: Steven take root? More specifically, why did you vote Sandor first in the day, but later switched to Steven? You first post on August 9th, at 8 PM, give or take minutes. Then you vote Sandor on August 10th at 6 PM for reasons related to his lurking. You unvote him and consequently vote Steven August 11th, 1 AM. That's two days nearly that passed since your very first post, and it's only then that a case surfaces.

... ##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Evangeline


What's worse, you vote Steven here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406231.html#msg406231) "after being tipped off"... and the only mention of Steven between you voting Sandor and you posting again is by Sandor and Shoe: the former to indicate Steven as a target, the latter to dismiss it.

We've got evidence that Gamzee and Sandor were both pushing for a Shoe lynch D1, indicating scum works together on lynchtrains. You were on that same train. We now see Sandor and you were also on Steven on D2. On D3, your vote did not come until under 20.5 hours remained in the day as per the mod's votecounts.

Explanations. When did your suspicion of Steven arise on D2?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 07:25:17 PM
EBWOP: also, what or who tipped you off?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 07:26:03 PM
Above, implied, StuffMan's participation satisfies me and it made me look at Evangeline and, yes, my reread shows that she has a lot of agreeing synergy with Sandor and even defended him D1. This confuses me. A lot. Like, a lot.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 07:28:37 PM
EBWOP: Wait, no, she didn't defend him, that was someone else? Uh, there's a lot of referencing to Sandor in her D1 posts with one mention of "he feels scummy but you feel scummier" to Shoe. Yeah I don't know how I came up with a Sandor defence for her. Consider that point dropped.

Also, just because I'm not voting McClane does not an excuse for silence make. :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 18, 2010, 07:30:53 PM
John McClane has been prodded for inactivity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Halloween Alice on August 18, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
Sorry about the silence.  Was a busy day yesterday.

Anyways, why I didn't vote Sandor.  I'll be honest, I read too much into what he said Day 1 and gave him a clean gut check, and so he got by when I did consider him until Day 3 when Saki's case came out.  At that point, the guy was sitting at L-2, which means that at both points I had two reasons for not voting him.  One reason was consistent.  Namely, Clegane was the only real contender all day, which meant that my vote was better used being left on myself (something I only realised at the end of Day 3.  Shoulda happened sooner, like Day 1, but I've got a pretty ingrained instinct to never vote for myself) as it wouldn't change anything.  The second reason, at first was simply not wanting to go to L-1 with so much day left, and later on, was to avoid giving StuffMan the double which is starting to get stronger and because I knew I was going to be around for the rest of the day, so if there was a stalemate, then I could switch with an hour left, and help ensure the lynch.

As for cases I'm looking at.  I'll be honest, I'm currently trying to re-order my thoughts since every single conclusion I've come to this game has been wrong, so I'm not trusting my past judgements.  So, in progress.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 18, 2010, 08:45:47 PM
Evangeline, when did your suspicions re: Steven take root? More specifically, why did you vote Sandor first in the day, but later switched to Steven? You first post on August 9th, at 8 PM, give or take minutes. Then you vote Sandor on August 10th at 6 PM for reasons related to his lurking. You unvote him and consequently vote Steven August 11th, 1 AM. That's two days nearly that passed since your very first post, and it's only then that a case surfaces.

Well, my first post  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404280.html#msg404280)I did say that I wasn't going to be around for a while and was saving a thorough lookover for later, mainly posting to respond to Shoe from D1 and putting a vote down, and then popping in to respond to inquiries and keep up with recent posts. When I voted Sandor later, I still hadn't had the time to make my own thorough analysis, and was just going off of what was said so far D2. My next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg405631.html#msg405631) was after Shannon had made her case, so I turned my attention to Sandor who was still being silent, and added a pressure vote. It was actually Sandor's post that tipped me off to read into Steven more thoroughly ( I quoted him in my third post where I voted Steven (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406231.html#msg406231) even), and I didn't like what I saw. I wasn't feeling too great about people's eagerness to dismiss his scum potential out of noobiness already, and so I made a case.

Hell, I even asked at the end of the post if there was anything that cleared Steven in their eyes aside from the noobiness, because I was drawing a blank. I was trying to keep myself open after the debacle that was the Shoe case, but no one gave me a good counter-argument. Except for StuffMan saying "Well a lot of people already knew Steven was a noob from the beginning" in response to the Gamzee quote, but that wasn't the lynch pin of my case anyway.

And uh, that's only 29 hours from first post to Steven vote post (9th at 8PM to 11th at 1AM). Er wait, I think you got the times wrong, because looking at timestamps from my end puts it closer to two days. My first post was posting before bed Sunday night when D2 opened, and the next day was a full day at work and things to do after, followed by work again Tuesday until late. It wasn't until Tuesday night that I could actually sit down at my leisure and look into things, instead of just reading what's current and responding to people.

Quote
What's worse, you vote Steven here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406231.html#msg406231) "after being tipped off"... and the only mention of Steven between you voting Sandor and you posting again is by Sandor and Shoe: the former to indicate Steven as a target, the latter to dismiss it.

Well, like I said above, I already didn't feel comfortable about others dismissing Steven on noobiness alone. Sandor's post made me look at Steven's bandwagon-swingy nature of his voting pattern D1, and Shoe's post had the "Only reason I'm not jumping on you for it is I read you as newb town at this time." that irked me further.

Quote
We've got evidence that Gamzee and Sandor were both pushing for a Shoe lynch D1, indicating scum works together on lynchtrains. You were on that same train. We now see Sandor and you were also on Steven on D2. On D3, your vote did not come until under 20.5 hours remained in the day as per the mod's votecounts.

D3 I was already feeling pretty shitty for having been a major player on two town lynches, and that discouraged me from being more ambitious with scumhunting. I did have one piece of information that became relevant once you started pressing Sandor: I had used my night ability on Steven D1, and it got redirected to Sandor. I had no idea how to interpret that aside from guessing it was a bus driver of some sort, so I just kept that information tucked in the back of my head until D3, where it came out that Sandor was the bus driver.

I was planning on voting Sandor well before I actually voted, but I didn't want to end the day prematurely if he actually had a good answer to my question of why he used his night ability on himself and Steven. I was at the border of "beyond a reasonable doubt", and his lack of a response to my repeated questioning sealed the deal for me. That's also why I asked you for clarification on his bus driver role, to make sure he was the one responsible for redirecting my ability from Steven to himself.

EBWOP: also, what or who tipped you off?

I guess 'tip me off' was a bad way to put it because it implies someone actually passed me a message, but I meant it more like 'caught my eye'. And to answer your question, the quote I made of Sandor's post that I mentioned above.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 09:03:47 PM
According to my investigation you targeted Steven without fail. How do you know it got redirected to Sandor?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 18, 2010, 09:21:25 PM
Because what I got back from the mod after targeting Steven was 'bla bla bla information about Sandor' followed by a 'I realize you targeted Steven Stone and this response is not a mistake'.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 18, 2010, 09:30:26 PM
Oh, and I should add: Since you say you investigated me Saki, that means you probably know what my power is then, right? The reason I investigated Stone is because I wanted to see if his claim of being new was credible, or just a huge act.

Eh, I might as well roleclaim since I don't think it makes a big difference either way to be dodgy about my role. I can investigate the actual identity behind a player (which is pretty useless for me i'll admit since i'm not really familiar with people's playstyles here). N1 I target Steven for reasons stated, targeted Shannon N2 on a whim and got back no result, and then targeted Shannon again N3 to confirm that her protection was persistent and not a one time deal.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 18, 2010, 09:38:33 PM
That checks out. I need to consider this more closely then; I think your response is reasonable within limits, but I haven't yet decided if I'll accept that as a non-scum train-of-thought.

Right now order of preference for lynch seems to indicate I want to keep on Evangeline. but I'm going to start prying into the others. I keep having to check the first post to remind me who all are playing and it's difficult forming much opinions when there's just lurkers, lurkers everywhere.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Skull on August 19, 2010, 12:25:22 AM
McClane, would you be kind enough to inform the rest of us whom you targeted the other nights?
I'd like ter believe you're fightin' the terrorists, like ye have before.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Kiva-la on August 19, 2010, 02:41:39 AM
Okay, I'm back. And I have... no real idea where to put a vote. I'm not seeing the Evangeline case too much (though I'll admit that's mostly because it reminds me of the Steven case via stretching a bit for it, and I'm much more wary of those now), though I'm not keen on McClane for reasons I have clearly stated previously, of which he has not done a single thing to convince me otherwise. Also, WTF at Stone Mason for the post of pure, blatant rolefishing. Nothing but rolefishing. Also at the wrong target, since I would assume it's for Saki, because McClane never actually claimed a role with night actions, nor has he given us a single target.

##Vote: John McClane
Because I find him consistently worse, though Stone Mason is coming as a close second.

Evangeline: Who did you target N0?


Also, as a warning, might or might not be out of it for a few RL days; getting work done on my teeth, and I may be out of it via pain or the drugs necessary to get rid of them. Hopefully will have clear enough thought to play, but no promises.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 19, 2010, 05:04:50 AM
Evangeline: Who did you target N0?

I investigated StuffMan on N0. Was wondering who the heck would play as Stuffman, though it made sense once I found out who it was. Though I don't feel 100% comfortable breaking someone's veil of anonymity, the information might help Town that are familiar with his playstyle (Then again if you are familiar with it then you probably could have guessed already..). StuffMan is Pesco.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 19, 2010, 05:25:40 AM
Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (4): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (1): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen

No vote placed: Stone Mason, Shannon, John McClane

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch. There are about 21 hours left in Day 4.

Evangeline A.K. McDowell is at L-1!

Shannon has been prodded for inactivity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: W on August 19, 2010, 06:57:11 AM
The question was who you targetted. Why you have to go and out me >_>

@Stuff: I'm not going to have the mod send a reminder to someone when they just posted the other day, y'know. Of the remaining players you stick out most to me, thus vote on you.

You were backing a prod vote. So why am I scum according to you?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 19, 2010, 07:49:31 AM
The question was who you targetted. Why you have to go and out me >_>

Though I don't feel 100% comfortable breaking someone's veil of anonymity, the information might help Town that are familiar with his playstyle

And it's not like anyone else but you would lay claim (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401964.html#msg401964) to having originated minhax y'know. :P

I lead a failed mislynch D1 and a successful mislynch D2, didn't do much D3, so i'm not holding out a ton of hope that I'm going to escape lynching at this point. But if what information I *do* have can help Town win still, i'll give it up. (Actually surprised Saki didn't jump down my throat sooner than now, but she saw bigger fish to fry D3 after all).

Also,

So why am I scum according to you?

Right now I really don't know who to go after. Of the people currently on my bandwagon, i'm going to take a stab and guess that one of you must be scum. It's not Saki, at least. Sailor Moon is... eh, i'm not sure what I think of her yet. But for you, one thing that strikes me was your eagerness to get the double vote by hammering and not chiming in until after his lynch was basically secured, also you acting like we'd go along with it without question like you were obvTown. That and your bad cases coupled with active lurking make me feel strongest about you.

Then again, I've been wrong twice before so I don't have much confidence in my feelings at this point. The only difference here is that I *know* that people are currently bandwagoning on a townie, so there's a good chance at least one of you is scum. If I get hammered before I wake up in the morning, someone *please* be careful with StuffMan and take a second look at Sailor Moon while you're at it. Don't let Stuffman get that double vote either unless he somehow comes up as obvTown, because we're fucked otherwise. Also, post more, peoples.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 19, 2010, 02:49:53 PM
Hey, i'm not dead yet. :toot: I'll throw down a couple more thoughts on my mind before work then and comment on who I haven't commented on. Stream of consciousness more or less soo.... here I go.

John McClane, I don't know how I feel about. We were pretty much side by side on bandwagons D1 and D2. While I can definitely understand the sentiment of feeling like you made a lot of bad judgements, I feel like multiple people espousing the same defense is a bit fishy.

Shannon, I have no idea. She used to have a compelling case on her, but that seemed to crumble and attention focused off her. Still would have to look at her old and new posts in more depth before saying anything useful about her.

Raxeluxe, i'm guessing has some sort of role restriction where he has to speak in a lot of bolds? I was so close to saying something about excessive bolding before I realize that might have been the case. Is the bolding just random or is there a pattern based on the content of the bolded/unbolded stuff? Makes me wonder.

Stone Mason: I... don't know. He hasn't stood out too incredibly much, and it's hard for me to get a bead on him.

Saki: With how slow things are going, if the Sandor v Saki from yesterday isn't any indication, then the way she's trying to drive the game forward is the last thing to cement in my eyes that she's Town. Hell, at this rate scum could just hide amongst all the lurkers and be good if there weren't people to try fishing them out.

And one last thing about StuffMan: If I go by meta + gut instincts, I *really* don't feel good about the way he's been acting this game. Though I don't know his actual mafia playstyle, i'm pretty familiar with him as a person. His previous activity seems more distraction than anything, and the latest bid for the last vote and just stating flat out "I can get double vote by hammering" reeks of something mindhax-ey.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Skull on August 19, 2010, 07:19:27 PM
I'll put my hat into the ring. My suspicions on John are the fact that he has a perfect track record for being pro-scum. I was not attempting to rolefish, so much as role activation fish. I think John's power is activated by someone voting for him, which would explain why he voted himself D3 and said he wanted to D1. My suspicions are not eased by a claim of being roleblocked. I cannot be certain that having a bad record is due to being scum, as it could be bad choices in good faith, and if he is scum, always being right about being wrong seems like it would be poor scum play. However, I no longer have enough time to have anymore reservations. Either this vote will just be another clip to John's gun, or we stop it completely by lynching him.

##Vote: McClane

I am not feeling the case on school girl, she shows her work, and seems concerned about being lynched, as opposed to the hiding we have seen thus far. If she is scum, she's pulled the wool over ma' eyes good. If someone wants to lynch her, that is their business.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 07:58:43 PM
H'okay, on a reread of Stone Mason and McClane, I got the following.

McClane first. Defence of Sandor at the bottom (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402962.html#msg402962), which is curious since he claims he can't see our reasons for attacking Sandor because "he's out hard, and saying things that can be tied to him". Of course, we were tying things to him namely that he was scummy. Hindsight, and all, but this goes into "don't defend people whose allegiance you don't know", and there's a difference between "Your reasoning is bogus" and "He's actually pretty good".

Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403084.html#msg403084), the thing that gets me is both his repeat mention at how Sandor is better, and then his stint on Miyako, specifically accusing her of turning all eyes to the two popular trains. However, here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407072.html#msg407072), he talks about two targets to pick from (i.e. he's pretending there's two choices, ymmv), and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407246.html#msg407246) he complains of Stone Mason giving commentary on Not The Leading Trains... after his D1 talk to Shoe about how he'd seen people swing about in the last moments, and accusing Miyako of tunneling town, it's weird he'd try to get Stone Mason's focus on the two leading trains.

Both trains, to note, are Shannon and Steven. One of these is a proven townie.

Backtracking a bit, I recall (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403105.html#msg403105) being asked why I thought Sandor was bad. McClane was the one asking, and he iterated that Stone Mason was worse. I also recall this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403215.html#msg403215), which complements a preceding post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403132.html#msg403132), on where he validates people's cases on Shoe based on Shoe's playstyle.

Back up a bit. He doesn't like voting people based on bad play (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401933.html#msg401933), which is exactly what Shoe's case boils down to: bad play because he pissed off people.

Day 2 more solidly, more Sandor defence (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404793.html#msg404793). Oh, well, that's pretty much it.

I don't think I need to go over Day 3 much because it's obvious his little stunt to stall for time on Sandor and try to undermine me by suggesting my investigative results were erroneous did not earn him a lot of Good Credit in my book. Attacking my credibility to defend Sandor... what's it called, Chainsaw?

Anyway, this post is getting too long, so I'm getting to Stone Mason in the next. I might review Evangeline again if I have time.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 08:07:25 PM
As for Stone Mason, he's a lot less wordy. The first thing I can find immediate fault with is his OMGUS (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404362.html#msg404362) - voting for the one who voted him.

[rul=http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407108.html#msg407108]end of Day 2[/url] isn't much better, as he first talks about Steve as derptown, and then agreeing to vote for Steven even though Evangeline is suspicious for starting the train. I don't like lynching for information, but that's playstyle.

His final post just now is a bit odd, considering his vote on Evangeline and continuous hounding her over the Steven case, but now suddenly she's "nothing wrong".

Not too fond on his supreme lack of participation so far. I'm not against LAL as an alternative to a valid scumwagon, and I do count lurking as a highly offensive count to scummitude. Town is served by posts, scum are more likely to be caught if they post enough.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 08:33:34 PM
end of Day 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407108.html#msg407108) isn't much better, as he first talks about Steve as derptown, and then agreeing to vote for Steven even though Evangeline is suspicious for starting the train. I don't like lynching for information, but that's playstyle.

^ Correcting the above, heh.


For Evangeline, we'll start with her bizarre reason (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402483.html#msg402483) to jump on Shoe, which was "I felt like it, and I wanted to see how far she'd run with her case on Steven", the latter which I doubt has any effect unless you point out flaws. Granted that she ameliorates the situation (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404703.html#msg404703) by finally giving a clear explanation. Please don't use RP in your reasons to vote someone.

A good thing is her challenge for Shoe to vote Gamzee, which I can't rhyme as scum intent much. Of course, the strong ties with Sandor and Gamzee (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402823.html#msg402823) dont'help her a lot. But I am willing to give that that is circumstantial. I can buy that Shoe's behaviour was confusing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403221.html#msg403221), but don't opt to call it scummy per definition.

This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg403286.html#msg403286) is also a bit weird, given that if Shoe'd voted Gamzee later on accounts of "Not Me Instead Of Me", it'd be no issue. I'm not sure how I feel about the accusation here - one side of me thinks it's really confusing, and the other thinks it's just plain weird reasoning to propose he'd need a reason to jump back on Gamzee if it'd save his life.

The sentiment here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404280.html#msg404280), that one of Shoe and Gamzee was scum, is weird. Because a D1 case seldom ends as Scum VS Town train, it's a bit weird to call Scum on one of the two in the D1 train. Much less certainly. I'd be more wont to say "You seemed scummy, but Gamzee didn't", rather than boldly claim I suspected one of the two being scum. "Pretty sure", huh?



I don't think the rest needs highlighting. It's the entire Steven case we KNOW is a trainwreck. I do like the honesty in explaining where she came from, and I can buy some of the arguments used to excuse herself.

In spite of what bad stuff I can find on her, and my reluctance to rhyme her sudden suspicion of StuffMan who she knew to be who he is since D2 as not-paranoia, I'm... pretty much willing to think that for now, Evangeline errs on the wrong side of paranoia. Against her, I find her behaviour to be a lot of "This person is scum" and then stack up and interpret actions in a negative way, which occurs to me to be pretty scum-like as that's basically how scum try to manipulate the lynches.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 08:36:59 PM
So, yeah, the above simply demands I move my vote to McClane, who looks worse than Evangeline. I can only rhyme a scum!Evangeline based on my gut, which tells me there's something distinctly suspicious about Evangeline. I also feel her playstyle complements scum because of how she tried to interpret all of Steven's actions as scum when they could be interpreted both ways... but I admit I'd considered the possibility myself. Who'd lynch the one who has no idea of what he's doing when you don't know who he is?

Alright.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: McClane


I'll also admit Stone Mason's got some pretty bad participation, but for now he's got the right calls on McClane, and his posts do have frequent linking back - a trait I like to see in people who lurk. It shows that they do some elbow work when they do provide content. Still, want to see more scumhunting and activity, less prodding and careful questioning.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 08:37:31 PM
Also, I apologise for being so damn wordy. :( I try to be succinct but I post stream-of-consciousness and boy do I have a lot of streams there.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 19, 2010, 08:43:57 PM
Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (3): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (1): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (3): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Saki Marimi

No vote placed: Shannon, John McClane

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch, Evangeline A.K. McDowell and John McClane are both at L-2. There are about 5 1/2 hours left in Day 4.

Shannon has been prodded for inactivity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Decade on August 19, 2010, 08:53:26 PM
Ugh. Was planning to post earlier. Combination of writing a paper draft + just general distractibility today for some reason meant that didn't happen. Getting caught up now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 19, 2010, 09:21:56 PM
Also, I apologise for being so damn wordy. :( I try to be succinct but I post stream-of-consciousness and boy do I have a lot of streams there.

It's wordy, but informative and not rambling so I think you're alright.

The sentiment here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404280.html#msg404280), that one of Shoe and Gamzee was scum, is weird. Because a D1 case seldom ends as Scum VS Town train, it's a bit weird to call Scum on one of the two in the D1 train. Much less certainly. I'd be more wont to say "You seemed scummy, but Gamzee didn't", rather than boldly claim I suspected one of the two being scum. "Pretty sure", huh?

I think that quip might be a result of some hindsight bias creeping in. "Y'see, one of the two of them was scum! I was pretty sure of that being the case before!" when really it was that they were the scummiest. That and well.. I haven't been playing very long, tbh, so that probably has something to do with overestimating the likelihood of a scum vs town train D1.

In spite of what bad stuff I can find on her, and my reluctance to rhyme her sudden suspicion of StuffMan who she knew to be who he is since D2 as not-paranoia, I'm... pretty much willing to think that for now, Evangeline errs on the wrong side of paranoia.

I'm.. kinda having a hard time parsing what you just said here. Can you rephrase it?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 09:29:51 PM
For the last point:

It's easy to think, "This person is scum" and then look back at everything they say and present it as evidence. It's the Texas Shooter fallacy where you use a conclusion and then make arguments to support it, rather than make arguments to reach a conclusion.

It means that I think you're too inclined to think, "He's scum!" and then let that direct your thought process and abandon the positive tells. It's a scummy thing, for sure, but I'm not getting too many bad feelings that push you ahead of McClane.


Also, forgot to mention this, but if you really are not a regular player: never give up. Never surrender and permit yourself to be lynched. Town has a responsibility to fight 'till the bitter end.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 19, 2010, 10:00:20 PM
And wow, end of day is creeping up sooner than I expected. Better do this now.

##Unvote
##Vote: John McClane


Because I can get behind Saki's case on McClane. Also, Not Me Instead of Me. Still sorta reluctant to leave open the possibility of giving Stuffman the opportunity to hammer considering his uncertain alignment, but not much time left in the day.

For the last point:

It's easy to think, "This person is scum" and then look back at everything they say and present it as evidence. It's the Texas Shooter fallacy where you use a conclusion and then make arguments to support it, rather than make arguments to reach a conclusion.

It means that I think you're too inclined to think, "He's scum!" and then let that direct your thought process and abandon the positive tells. It's a scummy thing, for sure, but I'm not getting too many bad feelings that push you ahead of McClane.


Also, forgot to mention this, but if you really are not a regular player: never give up. Never surrender and permit yourself to be lynched. Town has a responsibility to fight 'till the bitter end.

I'll keep those points in mind for the future, thanks.

I think I was definitely guilty of Texas Sharpshooter for D1, but D2 less so. As I see it, for each other person you have two possible conclusions of 'Town' or 'Not Town', and based on the evidence you swing one way or another. For Shoe, I started off leaning scum, and focused too much on confirming the scum verdict as opposed to finding the most likely conclusion. Steven on the other hand, I weighed the information on both sides before my verdict , and nothing came out to sway me after. You can't give the benefit of the doubt to everyone after all, and you have to act on the biggest doubts.

And as for the last point, I've still been fighting here, haven't I? :toot: Even though my scumhunting needs work, ehehe.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 19, 2010, 10:02:19 PM
Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (3): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (0): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (4): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell

No vote placed: Shannon, John McClane

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch. There are about 4 hours left in Day 4.

John McClane is at L-1!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 10:02:45 PM
Right, day's going to a close, and we need a lynch. I don't believe in No Lynch. Can I convince/interest Sailor Moon or StuffMan to show up and vote McClane?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: W on August 19, 2010, 10:04:04 PM
Saki are you fine with letting me hammer?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 10:09:26 PM
##UNVOTE

You'd be offended if I said "no"? There's too little to convince me you're town. You're compliant, but that could be a guise. Your D1 is excusable because I'd be suspicious if someone tried to claim to be me, but your further input is very little and lacking. Sorry, there's just not enough there to validate giving someone an extra vote, no matter how sporting they are.

Would you vote McClane regardless? Can you get behind our case?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 10:10:27 PM
EBWOP: Yeah, I sort of forgot you got a powerup on hammer.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: W on August 19, 2010, 10:11:25 PM
He's not my top choice, but we need the lynch.

##Vote John
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Ouja on August 19, 2010, 10:14:41 PM
Thanks for being understanding.

##VOTE: McClane

Just in case I bite it today:

I strongly urge town to lurk less and punish lurkers. The more talk, the more information there is. Information serves town. There's too few posts. Reading ME in isolation is a chore, reading some others is a breeze. The more is said the better - it gives people things to work with. LAL is a measure to fall back on, it shouldn't be a default.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 19, 2010, 10:19:45 PM
Stop talking, the day is over!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 19, 2010, 10:26:21 PM
Wow, you want me to string up THIS guy? Uh...give me a moment. Mr. McClane, Sir, can I talk to you in private?

...

...

...

...Okay, I'm back. Boy howdy, was that fine gentleman loaded to the teeth. Nothing indicative of Kanako, though. Praise be for that, I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley.

Anyway, he said he was okay with leaving, so there's that. Mentioned something about needing to "give her a call, because she's never going to believe this", whatever that means. Oh, and he did tell me to call you all "groobers". Or something.

John McClane, Town Sansei, was lynched by majority!

Night 4 has begun. Send your stuff in.

Final Day 4 Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (0): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (5): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi

No vote placed: Shannon, John McClane
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 4
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 20, 2010, 11:45:45 PM
Oh dear, it seems our own little Eden of the East has had another woman ejected, presumably back to her own. Funny, I thought Gensokyo would be the only such place.

I gotta admit, I'm starting to sweat a little bit. You guys are taking longer than I would have hoped. Don't cost me my good name, please!

Saki Marimi, Town Universal Backup, was killed overnight!

Day 5 has begun. Today is Potential LYLO. It is not a guaranteed LYLO, but there is enough of a threat that LYLO rules will be put into effect.

Sailor Moon (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch. There is no time limit. However, I will impose one if you take too long. Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 4
Post by: Ryuki on August 21, 2010, 12:08:20 AM
Thread title still says Night 4 btw. Anyway..

Shannon/Kanon: I'd like to know what happened between this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg410437.html#msg410437) post and this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg412669.html#msg412669) post. Specifically, what happened between those two posts to turn Sailor Moon from someone you were wary about to "likely to be town"? I realize that i'm talking to two heads of a hydra here, but still.

Also, what's the deal with the anon vote that's been on Shkannon the past two days, and on Saki D3? Can someone explain?

Here's to hoping we get a little bit more posting activity with the weekend coming around.

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 21, 2010, 01:33:47 AM
I guess I'll be taking most of the blame for yesterday's lynch, as I was a major component in turning the trains around. The other member behind the drive is no longer with us. I'll be taking a fresh look at everyone, voting records, relations between other players, the works.

On a personal note, I'll be attending a wedding on Saturday, so I'll be gone for a bit. Feel free to ask me anything in the meantime, I'll answer when I get back.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 21, 2010, 01:37:08 AM
##Vote: Stuff Man
##Unvote
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 21, 2010, 03:08:20 AM
Whoa whoa, who dragged the cat back in? :o

So, addressing the other people that aren't Shkannon..

@Stone Mason: Echoing Saki here, but please post more. It's hard to formulate a good opinion on you when you've posted no more than three times a single game day. That said, I want a better explanation than what you gave here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg415460.html#msg415460) as to why you gave me a pass but not McClane. My 'track record for being pro-scum' is about as perfect as his is, yet you saw fit to shift gears all of a sudden with me at L-1. Especially weird to me, since you've stated before back in D2 that " a flip of Evangeline would give more relationship correlation information than Sandor. Going for unlikely lynch today. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407108.html#msg407108)" So what's the relationship correlation information to be gleaned here? (Heck, for the rest of flips while we're here, since you haven't really made any relationship correlation analysis since you made that statement.

@Stuffman: I'd like to see your thoughts on everyone, not just myself. Aside from jabbing at me and popping in near the end of the day, you haven't really weighed in on anyone else since D2.  Especially like to know your thoughts about Shannon, since it seems like your opinion of her dried up between D2 and D3.

...and what's the deal with you jumping on people's cases for not voting fast enough here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414117.html#msg414117), when you hadn't even voted yourself? >_>

@Sailor Moon: Same goes for you. You haven't really weighed in your thoughts on anyone aside from me or Shannon these past two days either, sides a blurb (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409130.html#msg409130) about Mason. Your apathy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409168.html#msg409168) bothers me. That and you start the bandwagon on me here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg413773.html#msg413773), yet you didn't say a word about anyone else.

@Raxeluxe:

Raxeluxe, i'm guessing has some sort of role restriction where he has to speak in a lot of bolds? I was so close to saying something about excessive bolding before I realize that might have been the case. Is the bolding just random or is there a pattern based on the content of the bolded/unbolded stuff? Makes me wonder.


I may not have the best track record, but at least I post. :matsuri:
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 21, 2010, 07:48:44 AM
I hadn't posted yet that day while some people already did. Why did any of you who did post feel the need to not vote?

Stone Mason's targets have been pretty consistent but it's not a clear read. There's only 1 post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409402.html#msg409402) on day 3 and it was a prod. You say you would vote Sandor at the end of the day if nothing comes from him. He didn't post and you didn't show up, to either post or hammer. I know I haven't paid much attention to the game but Stone Mason has done far less. There's no time limit now, so I'd expect to see something no later than Sunday morning on my side of the world.

ShKannon's activity on Day 3 was good enough that I took my interest elsewhere. But now I'm not liking the pass (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg412669.html#msg412669) that he gives Razeluxe. The softclaim here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409887.html#msg409887) needs to be resolved. It's pseudo-LyLo so spill it.

Razeluxe is looking pretty bad as my pick for scum after an iso read. He never seems to pressure Stone Mason enough despite how (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg408924.html#msg408924) many mentions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414790.html#msg414790) of him being terrible. This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406626.html#msg406626) post IIoA, anyone else think so? In summation, Razeluxe is pretty much active lurking. I don't think I've seen him lead the charge on any of the cases the entire game.

##Vote Razeluxe

Sailor Moon doesn't strike me as scum because of consistent content for most of the game and getting onto Sandor so early would be quite a hard bus. Hasn't mentioned me all game, but I think she knew who I was from very early on and gave me a meta pass.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 21, 2010, 01:42:13 PM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane
Stuff Man (0): Shoe
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch. There is no time limit.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 21, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
Sailor Moon doesn't strike me as scum because of consistent content for most of the game and getting onto Sandor so early would be quite a hard bus.

Not to mention she was second on the Gamzee bandwagon and didn't budge, plus expressing interest in pursuing Sandor if Gamzee didn't work out. I'm leaning town on her, but I'd still like an answer to my questions.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 21, 2010, 03:00:19 PM
Now that I've had time for my head to clear, I was going to come in here and vote/unvote Stone Mason (Because it's potential LyLo, which means votes can't be placed willy-nilly) for reasons that have already been stated, without them being cleared up yet. However, reading that last post of yours, Stuffman, I think the cat's on the right track here. I mean, first off, I lead the charge yesterday. If you'd kindly take a look at the vote count, I'm the first solid vote on McClane. (And I hold that he seemed scummy) I presented my case, multiple times throughout the game, and voted him. Other people agreed. If that isn't leading the charge, I don't know what is. Another, less prominent example is the Steven Stone case, in which I presented a significant amount of the case. Should be in one of my posts you linked to, in fact. Next comes the part where you freely vote me, despite showing perfect understanding of the situation we're in. Votes are extremely dangerous, even for Town, at this point in the game.  Also, you role fish from ShKanon openly. And I call this role fishing because you don't ask for other people's, you just demand that s/he declare their role. Oh yeah, and as for the stuff about me calling out Stone Mason but never applying too much pressure? You can only apply pressure to one person at a time via voting (except in LyLo, wherein it should be through potential voting), and if you'd look at all those posts you linked to, you'd notice that I always had a better case. Now, originally, I was going to give you a pass on all that, thinking it was just you making some mistakes. But then I did my research, and thought about it, and realized that no, you are not simply making mistakes or seeing red, you are actively being scummy. I'd almost think you were third-party from the way you seem to be so open and flippant about everything, but no. I am pretty well convinced you're scum, but I will give you a chance to explain yourself, because that's the fair thing to do. Also because we can't afford to be wrong at this point in time.

@Evangeline: I mentioned the bolding in the first post I started doing it, actually. It's a way for me to do a tl;dr while still leaving all the other stuff there to support where I came from. I'll admit I've gotten a bit lazy about it lately, though.

Ninja'd by Stuffman quote from Evangeline. Not much to say on the matter.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 21, 2010, 03:57:53 PM
You still aren't leading because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THE FIRST VOTE on any of the wagons the entire game.

Vote me if you're so sure of me being scum. The fact that you don't is because you can't back it.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 21, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
You still aren't leading because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THE FIRST VOTE on any of the wagons the entire game.

Does this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414790.html#msg414790) not count because Saki Vote/Unvoted?

Vote me if you're so sure of me being scum. The fact that you don't is because you can't back it.

Why are you trying to rush voting when we're in potential LyLo, anyway? >_>


@Razeluxe: Can you elaborate on the "then I did my research"? What specifically brought you to this realization? Also, " I was going to come in here and vote/unvote Stone Mason ", for what reasons? I'd rather you state it in your own words why you think he's scum than just say 'for reasons that have already been stated'.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 21, 2010, 04:54:59 PM
god dammit I lost my post akldfdajk;lda

@Evangeline:I'm guilty of laziness, yeah. Maybe someone like me shouldn't be doing big rereads on single targets instead of lighter ones on everyone, since I'm not likely to get around to half the people that way :derp:

I'm still fine with myself for voting you yesterday though, as even if maybe I would have found someone else scummier, I still thought you quite deserving enough for a vote. I can't do something like that today, though; it's potential LyLo. I need to look at everyone and decide who I really think is the worst.

Also, does this mean there's two scum but a bomb they could derp into or something? Doctor who just can't seem to target the right people so far? Eh, I won't even bother setup speculating, there's too many weird things that could possibly be going on.

So Shoe's role has her come back as a Chicago Voter for LyLo? That's interesting. Also explains the "Seven votes in play" that I was wondering about in Suwako's post.

Okay, thoughts on people, without having done any big rereads yet.

Stone Mason needs to friggin contribute more. That's all I have to say on him without a reread.

Shkannon... my opinion is same as yesterday. She is not my preferred lynch, but I wouldn't mind one on her; oh scratch that, this is potential LyLo, I don't want to gamble with lynching her unless I decide she looks worse since I reread her on D4.

Raz isn't throwing any alarms for me yet, I don't find him terribly bad like Stuffman does. When I reread I think I'll really be looking for any associations with our confirmed scums, since he has been pretty lurky, so.

Stuffman...
Quote from: Stuffman
Hasn't mentioned me all game, but I think she knew who I was from very early on and gave me a meta pass.
"That is not how first-post mindhax works and you are not Pesco" :V

I don't know how the hell to read someone like you. But I'll sure as hell try. My gut says I won't be surprised if I find you to be pretty bad, but that's just gut right now, so don't worry about it yet unless I still feel that way AFTER a reread.

Evangeline. Oh Evangeline, Evangeline... I'm not entirely sure where I sit on you now. You sure contributed a fuckton on D4. I need to comprehensively reread that fuckton and look for any kind of possible scummy intent. Still leaning towards you being scum either way, I suppose it depends on whether I find Stuffman (Or anyone else, for the that matter) to be worse or not.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 21, 2010, 05:05:56 PM
Also, does this mean there's two scum but a bomb they could derp into or something? Doctor who just can't seem to target the right people so far? Eh, I won't even bother setup speculating, there's too many weird things that could possibly be going on.

So Shoe's role has her come back as a Chicago Voter for LyLo? That's interesting. Also explains the "Seven votes in play" that I was wondering about in Suwako's post.

Chicago Voter = Someone that can vote but can't say anything, or what? I had figured the 'Seven votes in play' had something to do with that anonvote and Silver Medal, but this makes more sense.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 21, 2010, 06:32:58 PM
Does this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414790.html#msg414790) not count because Saki Vote/Unvoted?

Why are you trying to rush voting when we're in potential LyLo, anyway? >_>

Yeah it doesn't count because on the vote chart Razeluxe is never the first name. Today he's the first one to want to lynch me so why shouldn't he vote me? He's pushing that I am so definitely scum, there should be nothing wrong with committing the vote when he believes it so strongly.

I think he's scum and scum can't afford to let themselves get tied up in early votes. The other part is that I think his role may have something against him being the first vote. It was just speculation but let's test it anyway. There's no time limit today so hold off voting me until he's placed the vote on me.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 21, 2010, 07:17:25 PM
It was just speculation but let's test it anyway. There's no time limit today so hold off voting me until he's placed the vote on me.

That won't even work as a test though, since you already had a vote on you from Shoe. :/
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 22, 2010, 03:53:26 AM
Shannon has been prodded for inactivity.

For the record, if you want to keep that limitless time count, this level of activity on the whole is not the best idea.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Ryuki on August 22, 2010, 04:40:31 AM
So, uh, how's that Mafier going for you guys?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Decade on August 22, 2010, 06:32:49 AM
Shannon here with a very late post!

Quote from: Sailor Moon
plus she said she just got out of the ER, and... well, I'd like to think people wouldn't lie about things like that. Even if you did lie about not being able to play, you could do something less extreme.
I didn't get to address this yesterday, but I want to now.  Suwako was nice enough to let me form a hydra with someone.  Asking for something like that when there was nothing wrong (and then using such an extreme problem on top of that) would be incredibly lame.  I promise that I would never be that lame.

Quote from: Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Shannon/Kanon: I'd like to know what happened between this post and this post. Specifically, what happened between those two posts to turn Sailor Moon from someone you were wary about to "likely to be town"? I realize that i'm talking to two heads of a hydra here, but still.

To make things clear: I thought Sailor Moon was town since D1.  Kanon was unsure because of her waffliness.  I shared my thoughts with him and he read over things again.  So far, he thinks that waffliness is her only "real" scumtell, but being second on the Gamzee wagon and attacking Sandor at the same time makes her more town.  Those things were enough to make him change his mind.

Also, Miss McDowell, who did you target last night?

@StuffMan I would like to hold off on claiming until I get an answer to that question.  I hope you understand.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 22, 2010, 07:09:44 AM
Also, Miss McDowell, who did you target last night?

I targeted Stone Mason. I don't think sharing the results will help much, and unless it's information that has a good chance of helping town I'd rather honor anonyminity in an anonymous game.  (He's not a regular player here as far as I can tell, and his real account doesn't reveal any discrepancies with lurking periods supposedly because he was busy or anything like that FYI).
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 22, 2010, 03:32:28 PM
That won't even work as a test though, since you already had a vote on you from Shoe. :/

He can vote someone else first to show that there's nothing against him being the first vote and then come vote me.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 22, 2010, 05:41:19 PM
Stuffman, I'm not going to vote you just yet because I want to come to a conclusion with everyone else on who to vote for. Otherwise, I could toss a vote on you, and find out you're Town and scum somehow has 3 votes on their side, and boom, we've (potentially) lost. This is potential lylo during role madness. You do not take chances. As for what you want me to do? I refuse. I don't see the point behind it. If you can give me a legitimate reason for me to do it, I'll gladly do so. But otherwise, "he might or might not have a role restriction saying he can't be the first vote on someone" is not anything past WIFOM that will lead to a nulltell either way. Pointless, pointless, pointless. You are smokescreening and avoiding the questions being asked. Not only that, but you are acting inherently anti-town by yelling at me and being rude and trying to force people into voting. Also, you've been blundering all day. you ask for me to place my vote down on you, claiming it should be an obvious choice if I'm so sure of you being scummy, and then when you're told by someone else it's a bad idea, you change your story to wanting me to do it to test if my role has some bizarre and obscure restriction that would almost never come up, asking me to place it on you. And then, when it's pointed out you already had a vote placed on you, you ask me to put it on someone else. You've been sloppy all game and, frankly, I'm surprised you've made it this far into the game. (Oh, right. You've only made it this far because you've been... less than active. Something I'm guilty of, too, and I do apologize for it, but I barely get any time to hop online for RL reasons. Only time I did was all of N4, which annoys me because I found out that right after I got busy again it became D5) If this wasn't lylo I'd have a vote on you so hard it wouldn't be possible to change my mind. As it is, I can't afford to be that stubborn. And you (as well as the other scum left alive, if there is one, though there probably is) need to be less desperate to lynch Town. Only leaves you being sloppier than usual. 

Also, leading the charge on someone means being the first vote on the train. A person isn't a train, so just because I'm not the first name, period, doesn't mean I didn't lead the train. Like yesterday, when Saki voted/unvoted before I placed my vote. Well before, in fact. I lead the charge.

@Evangeline: "I did my research" means I checked his posts and what he was saying. Triple-checked it all to make sure I wasn't just seeing things or whatever. As for the Stone Mason bit, it's because of... not as much as I had thought. And it's been pretty consistent, so I think it's just playstyle, actually. Kinda like the ShKanon thing, come to think of it, though more that it's just been that consistent and less because my previous concerns have been addressed. (Still upset with the "You are right, I'm Town!" bit on D1)

Spent a couple hours on this post, so attention is starting to waver. Will be around for a bit today, though, so if there are any more concerns I'll be off and on today to respond to them. Other than that, will get back to scumhunting when my batteries recharge.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 22, 2010, 05:42:31 PM
EBWOP: Back to scumhunting because today can still be used to find more scum than just Stuffman, since it seems like there are 4, so there will be another day tomorrow.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 22, 2010, 06:14:39 PM
The fact that you still aren't doing it and refuse to vote the person you call the scummiest makes you very confirmed as scum by my read.

A reread of your previous post showed a mention of third party. Now why in the world would Town entertain the thought of any third party when there has been no evidence to even hint that one exists? That is fearmongering and scummy as heck.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 22, 2010, 06:32:01 PM
And that is you trying to paint me as scum. I also mentioned that the Saki/Sandor scuffle could have been a massive scum gambit. Just because I mention it doesn't mean I'm actually entertaining the idea. I ramble and post in stream-of-consciousness. I have mentioned this before. Besides, Third Party is actually perfectly valid for potential lylo. Third party wins by surviving, after all. If there's 2 scum left alive, and 4 town, then say we lynch town today, town dies tonight, that's 2 scum and 2 town left alive, with Shoe able to tiebreak. That would put tomorrow as definite lylo in a worse-case scenario, but there is a tomorrow. There would have to be some sort of killing role out there that could end things one way or another, but we haven't seen evidence of that. As for a Third Party, well, 3 Town, 1 TP, 2 scum. lynch town, kill town, that leaves 2 scum, 1 TP, 1 town. that's the end, since that's 3 votes against the last town left alive, killing him, and I doubt the mod would drag things on, since TP wins by going "I'm TP, let's lynch Town, scumbuddies!" and voila.

And still you insist on me voting during p.lylo? How does that make me scum? Please, I'd love to hear your explanation of this. How does not voting during a time where votes are potentially more helpful to scum than they are to town, scummy? Also, you have more questions to answer, Stuffman. I'd recommend you answer them. Now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 22, 2010, 07:57:09 PM
@Evangeline: "I did my research" means I checked his posts and what he was saying. Triple-checked it all to make sure I wasn't just seeing things or whatever.

No, I mean I'd like to know the actual things that turned him from mistake-laden to scummy, not just that you triple-checked it or anything like that. Anything in particular that sealed the deal in your eyes?

A reread of your previous post showed a mention of third party. Now why in the world would Town entertain the thought of any third party when there has been no evidence to even hint that one exists? That is fearmongering and scummy as heck.

Accusations of fearmongering, coming from the person who accused Roddy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402629.html#msg402629) of potentially hiding a vote or using role related shenanigans D1? Hell, you said it yourself that "the game is role-madness bastard mod from what I recall of the game info. If someone makes a strange move, I take in the possibility that it does something." I sense a contradiction here, between your accusations of fearmongering and eagerness to rush into voting in this stage, and your own caution and paranoia in the past about the 'role-madness bastard mod' aspect of the game. I find the possibility of a third party way more likely then Roddy hiding a vote like you accuse him of at the end of this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402629.html#msg402629) post.

I'd go more into it, but I want to hear from Razeluxe first. Also hearing from Stone Mason would be nice, along with a followup from Sailor Moon as well. You should be back by that wedding you mentioned, shouldn't you?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 22, 2010, 10:33:19 PM
You are scum because you've supported wagons that have lynched town and gave passes to Stone Mason on more than one occasion to secure those town wagons as I've linked in my vote post. Sure, scum would want to hold back on voting to quickhammer and that's why you are scum because you are not voting the person you claim should be lynched.

Put that vote down on someone who hasn't been voted today. It's not going to kill you. I complied with the request to not be the hammer vote yesterday, you can do the same and show that you're not hiding anything.

@Evangeline: What I did about Roddy is far less of an issue compared to puffing smoke about 3rd parties. Speculations about role powers can be worked around. Either you forbid the person from activating their power or they demonstrate it. Razeluxe's fearmongering requires a lynch to prove. Wasting a day like that is scummy.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 22, 2010, 11:45:09 PM
You are scum because you've supported wagons that have lynched town and gave passes to Stone Mason on more than one occasion to secure those town wagons as I've linked in my vote post. Sure, scum would want to hold back on voting to quickhammer and that's why you are scum because you are not voting the person you claim should be lynched.

I can't tell if this is just lazy scumhunting or if you're actually trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I look back at the stuff "as you linked in your vote post" and i'm not quite seeing all these 'passes to secure those town wagons' that you're referring to. Maybe when he voted McClane, but are you saying his vote on Shannon securing a town wagon too?

And the logic of "scum would want to hold back on voting to quickhammer and that's why you are scum" is stupid. Since Town ALSO wants to hold back on voting so scum can't quickhammer.


@Razeluxe: If you can, just do what he's saying and #Vote/Unvote, unless you have a good reason not to.


@Stone Mason: Stop lurking. I had your last active pegged a little more than twelve hours ago, then again about two hours ago, and your most recent is from an hour ago. You have questions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg416945.html#msg416945) posed to you, so I suggest you get to answering.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 23, 2010, 12:19:39 AM
After doing a thorough reread of everyone stil in play, I have arrived at a few conclusions. Stuffman has a playstyle that has a common theme with the other confirmed scum, namely a theme of undermining and trying to interpret other's actions as scum on his terms. It is a little hard to describe, it would be best to read that goober's posts in isolation and see how you feel. Essentially, he doesn't really try to ask for clarification, he more asserts people are scum based on his interpretations, which in my opinion are usually a little weak. I don't know if this is merely playstyle differences, but I feel this playstyle is not helpful for town. Therefore, at this point I am comfortable with voting the Goober.

Others:
I targeted Stone Mason.
Stone Mason tips his hat.

The reason I went for McClane rather than school girl was based on D3 and D4 differences, namely, she was a lot more coherent and consistent on those days than McClane was. Furthremore, at the time of D4 I saw you had the Silver Medal, I had a sudden gut reaction: this seems like a mislynch. Now after another read I can see you remain internally consistent through the other days as well.

I actually don't want Missy maid to role claim, however, I would like her to clarify if becoming a monster was mandated.

The Moon Cult Feminist remains a waffle on a reread. An unsure player would seem to be town; hmm. She has been suspicious of both confirmed scum at early points in play, which is good, but has already been stated.

I think the Raze the kook has been okay, and his freakouts are reading like his nerves are getting to him.

That being said, I have no significant suspicion on who a second scum would be.

And finally for a fun pet theory, Stuffman says he gets a second vote by hammering, but I' hypothesizing he already got a second vote: the Silver Medal.
Don't put weight into this though, I just want to see if I've successfully matched wits after the game.

And School Girl's ninja: True. I was doing the a full read on the players left. Stopped halfway. Didn't want to post when I wasn't done. This was last night. And for an hour ago, (probably longer now) I was still in the middle of posting this. I've actually already answered Stuffman's regarding D3 before (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg413504.html#msg413504); I clarify you over John above, and the information flip would be due to you talking more and people talking about you more (gives more relationship correlation). I was also thinking in terms of how your flip would put Steven in a new light, but lynching Steven was a more direct route that honestly I was not wholly confident in.

Just to add. I think I may be free for about seven hours or so.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 12:57:24 AM
@Mason: Aside from Stuffman then, who else would you consider the next most scummy? And you said you did a full reread of the remaining players, so what are your thoughts on Shannon then?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 12:58:36 AM
Derp, RTFT Evangeline. " I have no significant suspicion on who a second scum would be." Still, like your thoughts on Shannon if possible.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 23, 2010, 01:13:55 AM
Mmmm. It is a little hard to say regarding miss maid, she was consistent with her suspicions on Sandor since D1. The "late/irrelevant" vote D1 suspicion against her was stupid. She had a falling out with Miyako over playstyle, which she remained steadfast in. She has been a little wordy, but it could be she is just trying to elucidate herself, and considering she didn't post often and there was a lot to consider in between, it makes sense. Don't see anything too bad with it.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 01:26:06 AM
Alright, that's a reasonable explanation, and we came to pretty much the same conclusion about Shannon. I still have my reservations about you, but at least you're decloaked for the time being.

@Shannon: One thing that i'm kinda curious about though.. why did you want to know who I targeted last night before you roleclaimed? Why is this relevant?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 23, 2010, 01:35:03 AM
And finally for a fun pet theory, Stuffman says he gets a second vote by hammering, but I' hypothesizing he already got a second vote: the Silver Medal.
Don't put weight into this though, I just want to see if I've successfully matched wits after the game.
I think the Silver Medal is passable as Miyako said and as Suwako has told me. It's just that Shannon is untargetable by it from her role, apparently, so Miyako had some problems passing.

There is the OTHER anonyvote, though.

Okay, I've reread stuff and condensed my opinions.

Stone Mason is very low-content and low activity, (although his most recent post is quite nice) and while I don't like that, I don't find anything actually scummy about him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's some third party but lets not even get into this argument again.

Evangeline is... well, like McClane, all the analysis on her wagon activity is scum-beneficial. I think I worded that really badly, so I hope you understand what I mean. However, the logic itself behind the votes are solid, which helps her not look as bad, plus she also seems to be the one person who's really putting in effort for this game, something I noticed heavily starting on D4 and on, so I'm starting to lean towards her being town.

Shannon, I still feel the same as yesterday; I could see why scum would be doing her actions, but I don't see anything that actually makes me think she's more likely scum then town.

Razeluxe. I... don't really have anything to say about him, I guess. My brain isn't functioning, maybe. Not feeling scumminess about him is implied, by the way. I realize this isn't a good kind of opinion to have (Aka none), and if you've got any kind of question for me about him, feel free to ask! Or anything else, for that matter.

I don't have a lot of experience with Stuffman's player's playstyle, so I dunno if it's always this anti-town (I hear it is), but it rubs me the wrong way, ESPECIALLY today. Before I was willing to give him a meta-pass unless I saw something particularly bad, at least until LyLo, but A.Now it's LyLo and B.Now I think he's looking particularly bad today! Comprehensive reread on him coming... at some point... probably sometime tomorrow when I get home, where I'll explain specifically why I don't like him. My brain can't analyze more mafia at the moment.


Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 23, 2010, 02:59:30 AM
@Evangeline: I do have a reason not to. I said specifically in my first post I was going to vote/unvote Stone Mason, and so unless he believes I was lying out of my ass (something you should never assume people are doing, because that's not pro-town) I have the ability to be the first to vote someone, as Stone Mason has yet to be voted. His insistence to make me do it has me believing that there's something to it, too. Also, I was roleblocked last night (have been intentionally avoiding leaving any traces of anything associated with my role), and I'm worried there's some sort of correlation, or some other weird effect that'll kick in when I do it. As for what my research left me with, well, for one he never comes out strong before today, wherein it's lylo and his personality changes immensely. For another, the sheer number of things wrong with his post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg417186.html#msg417186) accusing me of being scum. I honestly find it difficult to find much right with that post, which I didn't realize when I had originally just done a very basic, shallow read of it. I'd give a more in-depth analysis, but my internet shuts off in a few minutes, so I don't really have the time.

As for something that stood out, well, the role fishing caught my eye, which is what brought my attention to re-reading it thoroughly, and that's when I noticed just how much he had wrong.

Not sure of who I believe to be second scum, since paranoia is starting to kick in when I think about it. Sorry, but my nerves are getting to me, IRL and online. Should be fine when I get a day or two to recharge.

@Stuffman: ...too much to go over. Just... too much. What you say makes no sense, and is just as much fearmongering as anything I've done. If you're so sure I'm scum, and you're not, though, then please give us your ideas on who the second scum is.

Getting this out while I still can.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 03:26:02 AM
Alright. So we've finally heard from everyone (dear god, like pulling teeth!). Though it seems like pretty much everyone has the same person in mind for voting, still like to see voting held off on voting for another 24 hours or so to give some people a chance to respond and to get more discussion out there.

Is our chicago voter Shoe still with us here? Can you give us a ##Vote/Unvote of who you think is the most scummy now?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 23, 2010, 03:40:21 AM
Moon Cult Feminist: I can understand you don't have a strong opinion about Raze the Kook being scum, but would you mind going the other direction why you think he might be town?

Stuffman/Goober: Playstyle differences? Would you mind giving a brief on the way you mafia? You had a here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg405875.html#msg405875)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 23, 2010, 03:45:48 AM
##Vote: StuffMan
##Unvote
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 23, 2010, 05:11:33 AM
Edit: You had a blurb here.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 06:13:30 AM
plus she also seems to be the one person who's really putting in effort for this game, something I noticed heavily starting on D4 and on

To be fair, i'm just trying to follow Saki's lead here. If someone didn't step into the void created by her absence, Town seems like it'd be pretty much boned by now. Even with how shitty my scumhunting record has been, even I can prod, ask questions, and be present.


Also, putting it out there now that I won't be able to get to things as quickly as I've been for the next 16-24 hours. I'll still be poping in here from time to time to comment on things and throw a vote down, so i'll be around.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 23, 2010, 06:15:28 AM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane
Stuff Man (0): Shoe, Shoe
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch. There is no time limit.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 23, 2010, 08:28:38 AM
Razeluxe as scum 1 and Stone mason as scum 2 going by todays posts.

As for explaining playstyle, allow me to use Razeluxe's excuse which you guys have been perfectly fine with.
Just because I mention it doesn't mean I'm actually entertaining the idea. I ramble and post in stream-of-consciousness.

Cut the bullshit and take responsibility for what you post.

Don't give a shit anymore so start voting. Let's have Razeluxe and then Stone Mason in that order with the votes on me. If the game ends, that's just how it is. If not, it should be blindingly obvious that Razeluxe is scum.

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 01:26:22 PM
With that sort of attitude I can't say it'd be much of a loss even if you did flip Town. :/ You don't defend yourself, you don't quite explain yourself, and you just attack everyone around you instead. Saying "These people are scum based on today's posts" is like IIoA without even the information.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 23, 2010, 04:16:36 PM
Okay, turns out I wasn't roleblocked last night. Just got a confusing message from the mod. My bad, it's all been cleared up now.

Gragh, computer is making me angry. Simply will. Not. Respond. Going to come back tonight with what I have to say, since I'd much rather be in a pleasant mood than a poor one. Everything that I felt absolutely needed saying now has been said. (Please don't end it until I get back)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 23, 2010, 04:29:47 PM
Too bad I'll still be around being same as I've been all game if you guys don't want to vote me. And Razeluxe shouldn't worry about it ending before he gets back because he's going to be the first vote on me.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 04:58:03 PM
Pah, now all this dancing around has gotten me paranoid about roles.

With things as they are, I can guarantee that you'll be getting my vote Stuffman. With Shoe that's two confirmed, and from what I see from the others is that there no one else sticking out in anyone's mind more than you. At this point you should consider yourself as good as lynched, so If you are indeed Town like you say, then why not give us something to go off of, some parting words, something that actually -helps- the team you're supposedly on? Instead of saying "Don't give a shit anymore just lynch me already". This isn't any better than the disappearing act that Gamzee and Sandor pulled.

I'd still like to get a response from Shannon before the end of the day however.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 23, 2010, 05:20:04 PM
School postan whee.

Evangeline pretty much took the words out of my mouth. Especially that paranoid part; with how much Stuffman is insisting on ordering the votes on his wagon, suddenly I realllly don't want to be the first OR last vote on him... or, well, anywhere inbetween for that matter, but that won't stop me from voting him. With the way he's acting I'd guess he's some kind of bomb or reverse bomb or curses the people who voted him or SOMETHING.

Anyway, at this point, does anyone really care if I do that reread on Stuffman or not? Everyone agrees he looks terrible, 3/4 votes to get him lynched are confirmed to be put on him at some point today, p.much the guarenteed lynch and it's potential LyLo... I'll still do it if anyone wants me to, of course.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 23, 2010, 05:22:09 PM
##Vote: Sailor Moon
##Unvote
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 23, 2010, 05:33:40 PM
##Vote: Sailor Moon
##Unvote

I, uh... guess I really don't have anything I can say to this, considering it's impossible to know why Shoe thinks I'm scum now? Except for an incredibly gruelling questionairre.

Or it's a very cryptic way to tell me "motherfucker do that reread and stop being lazy".

Just to clarify, voteunvote me once if you think I'm scum, and twice if you were just trying to tell me something else (for example, that sentence I just said). Or three times if I need to start asking you questions about my previous post to figure out if there was a communication error or something.

Oh god this is like morse code. I wonder if this counts as being lame because Shoe isn't really supposed to be able to communicate with us?

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 23, 2010, 05:48:58 PM
Anyway, at this point, does anyone really care if I do that reread on Stuffman or not? Everyone agrees he looks terrible, 3/4 votes to get him lynched are confirmed to be put on him at some point today, p.much the guarenteed lynch and it's potential LyLo... I'll still do it if anyone wants me to, of course.

I'd prefer it, yes. I get the nagging feeling that it's "potential" LyLo instead of real LyLo to keep ambiguous the number of scum left as either one or two, but there are still a number of possible scenarios and none are good for us. Anything that involves more than one scum almost assuredly means we're in LyLo right now.


Given point two, yes I'd really like it for you to give your own analysis Sailor Moon, as well as us determining who is next most likely to be scum. Because if the game doesn't end with Stuffman's lynching, we NEED to get the Silver Medal on the right person. And the more words out there the better


Ninja'd by last three posts: Iiiinteresting. :/ What I said above still stands, Sailor Moon. I'm not voting until you speak up, and from the looks of things neither is Shoe.

(I swear to god Shoe if you're trolling us I will strangle you once this game is over :derp:)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 23, 2010, 06:22:10 PM
Evangeline; alrighty then! I was just about to start anyway because of Shoe. Unfortunately, I have only about 20 minutes left in this class before I gotta go, so I doubt I'll finish, but then I can finish when I get home in a few hours.

D1, he tunnels Saki a bit. Tunnelling is bad but he only did it for a little bit (Short enough to make me consider if it counts as tunneling) so it's not all that terrible I suppose. Then this thing with Roddy that we all remember that's just completely "uh what". (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg402629.html#msg402629) That blurb towards Roddy is just... it's a horrible horrible attempt at making someone look bad.

Then, when people defend Roddy, which is COMPLETELY reasonable because accusing him of trying to hide a vote in that is ridiculous for reasons stated by plenty of people, Stuffman attacks the people defending and then accuses Roddy of chainsawing Saki defending him. This whole incident reeks of scumminess from Stuffman, really. I guess I had just kind of handwaved it before as derpiness and moved on without a second look.

D2.
Quote from: Stuffman
Yesterday I would have liked to make it in time to hammer as it grants me a second vote if I do, but it's not a necessary thing to try get and I'll place my vote the moment I'm ready.
How did I miss him saying this on D2? Nothing else to say about his D2 posts. Or D3, actually, but D3 was extremely straightforward.

Quote from: Stuffman
Today, what good is your prodvote going to do? If you want someone to post, ask the mod to send them a reminder and use your vote for lynching.
I don't like this sentence, but I could accept it as a difference in playstyle.

Now I'm at D5 in my reread, leaving within minutes so although this is the juiciest bit, I've gotta wait till I get home to finish. He's done nothing that looks town to me, and his D1 Roddy debacle and the D5 actions are very bad in my eyes. I'll follow up latermybusisherebye





Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 23, 2010, 06:25:46 PM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (1): Silver Medal, Shoe
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane
Stuff Man (0): Shoe, Shoe
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch. There is no time limit.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 23, 2010, 06:29:49 PM
##Vote: Sailor Moon
##Unvote
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 23, 2010, 08:47:00 PM
I'm home!

Well... D5 Stuffman doesn't really need deep analysis, now that I've reread it a few times. He's painting Razeluxe as being "very confirmed scum" for holding back on his vote in p.LyLo in a game where there are NUMEROUS confirmed additional vote powers, for mentioning the possibility of a third party in role madness, and for not being the first vote on anyone. I really do not see how ANY of that is scummy. In addition, he isn't even bothering to defend himself at all, outright tells town we can go lynch him, and tells us what the first two votes on him need to be like it's the Word of Godtm, the latter being suspiciou
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 23, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
Just act like there's a period after Word of Godtm, my post was still being finished and I nixed where I was going with that sentence.

I just noticed Stone Mason asked me a question. Whoops! So, why might Razeluxe be town? Well, I didn't like his D1 play, but after that he shaped up. I haven't seen anything that's actually bad from him after D1. That in itself suggests, well, not being scum. That being said, I haven't found his posts all that useful either, and I can see where Stuffman would get an active lurking vibe from; I just think calling it active lurking is going a bit too far, more like low-effort, which there's nothing wrong with; being a casual player who isn't willing to devote lots of effort to the game is perfectly fine as long as it's not to a point where it hurts town.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 23, 2010, 09:14:16 PM
Raze, that really is a unique slip. Who did you target last night? I'm not asking for your role, just the target.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 23, 2010, 11:00:17 PM
Kanon and Shannon have been prodded for inactivity.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 24, 2010, 02:49:36 AM
It wasn't a slip, actually. Look at my post before that one, and you'll see I mentioned something about being roleblocked. I was mistaken, and (obviously) would not have let it slip had I not been confused. So, really, it was more of a misunderstanding. (Yes, pointless, whatever. It's a lead-up to responding to you) I targeted you, though.

... Nothing to even say to Stuffman at this point. Well, aside from a full roleclaim, but that's more just because I like seeing them than for any other reason, so no I don't expect it nor am I going to fight for it.

Other stuff to say is, well... I guess we're at the point where we're just talking about who is most likely secondary scum. For me, I'm honestly not sure. Only person I find not Stuffman or neutral is ShKanon. Can't say I can really explain why, though, is the problem. If I absolutely had to place my vote down tomorrow though, it'd probably be on Stone Mason or Sailor Moon. However, things can easily change at this point, so I feel kinda bleh about posting this here in the first place, but I figure that being invisible (about certain things) is best at this point. Here for the next... 10 minutes. Then I'm gone for whoknowshowlong. So, if you have something to ask, either do it quick or be patient. (Sorry)

Oh! Before I forget. Still REALLY not liking where Stuffman is going with his voting demands. The next time I see a ShKanon vote that has her agreeing that Stuffman is the lynch, though, I'll put a vote down on him.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 24, 2010, 02:54:44 PM
...

I'm bored!

24 hours left in the day, starting from this post. Now get your butts in gear and do something.
 
Shkanon will be modkilled at the end of the day if they have not posted something substantial by then.

oh man editing in a mafia game
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Punch Hopper on August 24, 2010, 03:18:29 PM
##Vote: Sailor Moon
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 24, 2010, 03:47:42 PM
I don't know how I feel about this. Try as I might, I can't see anything that puts Sailor Moon above Stuffman in my eyes. :|

I'm going to hold out in hopes that Shkannon posts something (or if they're scum, resigned themselves to their loss :V), but if there isn't anything this evening I'm putting my vote down.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 24, 2010, 04:39:07 PM
Razeluxe should vote. Because as we've already seen, people sitting with one vote on them aren't quickhammered yet after this long, so scum certainly don't have 3 votes.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 24, 2010, 05:34:15 PM
Evangeline:Well, then there you go. No else other then Shoe seems to think I look bad, and the thing about Shoe is she can't even ask me any questions to help her decide (Which is unfortunate).

Without Shoe, we'll need Shkannon's vote in order to get a Stuffman lynch, so I really hope she shows up soon and thinks voting him is a good idea.

Stuffman:I wouldn't say scum definitely don't have three votes. It's only potential lylo, so I certainly see sense in holding off a quickhammer. I do however think it's not terribly likely though that they do, plus at this point we kind of need to start voting anyway.

If the game doesn't end tonight (For example, Shkannon being modkilled tipping the game into OVER), I need to NOT pick a townie to throw my Silver Medal at. Evangeline is the only person I'm leaning towards town on... that leaves Shkannon, if she isn't modkilled, Stone, and Razeluxe, the latter of two I'll probably reread again on the matter when I get home. What do you people think? Almost the entirety of todays conversation has been about Stuffman.

Personally, I don't really think Shkannon looks bad, although god I wish she actually kind of existed right now. Stone... I was leaning towards townie with a casual and lower-effort playing style, but being casual and low-effort would also be good for scum (By the same principle of why scum tend to lurk), so I could see a case there. Razeluxe... if Stuffman flips scum, which at this point I really think he will, I highly doubt Razeluxe is scum. Attacking eachother like they did today, before even seeing if town would decide to lynch another town, I don't see scum doing that.

So, I'm thinking I'll throw it at Stone if Stuffman is scum. But, on the offchance he's actually town... hrm. That makes things more complicated.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Decade on August 24, 2010, 06:43:42 PM
Shannon here.  I'm sleep deprived and extremely tired, so bear with me.  Kanon said he was going to post last night and didn't, but I can't really wait for him anymore for obvious reasons.

So first, in regards to the anon vote on us, it's nothing to worry about.  It comes from us not saying that "Suwako is amazing" nearly enough.  And yes, I am completely serious.  We have a post restriction that says we must praise Suwako in at least half our posts every day.  You can verify this without reading my horrible walls just by CTRL + Fing for "Suwako" and looking through my posts.

Anyway, as for who we want to vote currently we think that Evangeline is most likely scum.  I didn't ask her for her target today because of any role-based reasons; I asked her because her claim yesterday reeks of being fake, and since I soft-claimed some kind of investigation role I thought she would probably tell the truth about her target.  I'll let Kanon type up the entire case; I'll just type up what's bothering me most.

This post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414303.html#msg414303)  More specifically, this quote:

Quote from: Evangeline AK McDowell
I did have one piece of information that became relevant once you started pressing Sandor: I had used my night ability on Steven D1, and it got redirected to Sandor. I had no idea how to interpret that aside from guessing it was a bus driver of some sort, so I just kept that information tucked in the back of my head until D3, where it came out that Sandor was the bus driver.
...There is so much wrong with this...I am surprised no one brought it up yesterday (I'm even more dissapointed that the day was ended before we could catch up and bring it up ourselves, but anyway).  Let's think for a moment.  Sandor is confirmed to be a bus driver + redirctor combo by Saki.  So, he could have done one of two things to make Miss McDowell target him.

1.) Use the redirctor power.  IE, target Miss McDowell and then target himself.  This would just be really dumb regardless of whether or not he knew what her ability was.  It's highly illocial for scum to direct ANY town ability onto themselves regardless of what it does, especially if they don't know what it does.  Even if they did target her with a rolecop or something N0 it would still be silly to redirect a town ability onto themselves when they could be doing other things with it.

2.) If he used the bus drive ability that would mean that he would have had to switch Steven Stone and himself.  In other words, he would have had to switch himself with someone that had a reasonable chance of being copped/tracked/vigged or something like that because he looked terrible after D1!  I confirmed with the mod that all night actions that recieve results  (cops, trackers etc.) would be aware that they were redirected.  I'll confirm this here too.  @mod: Would any person with night abilities that get results (tracker, cop, etc.) be aware that their night ability was somehow disrupted (via bus driver or something else) if it was?  Would they know who they targeted if they didn't hit their intended target?  Anyway, if Sandor wanted to attempt something gutsy like framing Steven I'm sure that he would make sure whether the cop/tracker/whatever would be aware that they got a result on HIM and not Steven Stone because it would be incredibly stupid NOT to check something like that.

tl;dr, the idea that Sandor would use his ability on himself is ludicrous on several levels.

Combine that with the fact that she has been on every town wagon, argued for a town wagon instead of a scum wagon D1, jumped off a scum wagon to a town wagon D2, and her posts have just been generally unimpressive (I mean really, look at this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg415211.html#msg415211)) makes her our top suspect.

##Vote Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 24, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
##Vote Stuffman because screw the mind games. Not worth getting paranoid over. If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die.

Not much else to really say. Brain is dead, so scumhunting today is a no-go, but I can answer questions if people have any.

Ninja'd by Shanon, and... uhh... huh. Can we please agree on one person to vote today? We don't have the time or votes to spread it so thin. Aside from that, will look at her Evangeline case more when I have a head on my shoulders.

Oh, btw. It's entirely possible Sandor hit her with the vague redirect role, in which case I don't think he needs to give a target, and it'll instead be random. Could be wrong, but maybe not. Oh yeah, and if someone gets redirected, they will know. It happened to me the night before Sandor got outed, and I very much knew. I mean, not right away, but that's more because I wasn't really paying attention to my target that night. Actually, while I'm at it, I don't think I can paint a bigger target on my back than I already have, so if anyone wants me to fullclaim (aside from Stuffman) then I will. I have this odd feeling I'll be dead soon anyway.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 24, 2010, 06:51:48 PM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (2): Silver Medal, Shoe, Shoe
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane
Stuff Man (1): Shoe, Shoe, Razeluxe Meitzen
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Shannon

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch, so Sailor Moon is at L-2. There is no time limit.

Any and all targeted night actions that require responses from me will be 100% responded to in relation to the final target of the night action, regardless of what the initial target was.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 24, 2010, 07:05:14 PM
Alright. Just realized that scum could've quick-lynched there with only 2 votes. Which means that either they have someone we haven't accused yet, and don't want to risk them being known, or Sailor Moon is the last scum. Honestly, I could see it either way. Will need to re-read Sailor Moon, though. Something else just raised some warning bells and I need to see if it's a false alarm or not.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Decade on August 24, 2010, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: Razeluxe
Oh, btw. It's entirely possible Sandor hit her with the vague redirect role, in which case I don't think he needs to give a target, and it'll instead be random
Which ability are you talking about?  Saki listed what he could do here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409685.html#msg409685).  He could either make someone target the person of his choice, or he could swap two people and make whoever targets one target the other.  Both of which require him to use his ability on himself.  I think I already explained why this is dangerous and silly.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 24, 2010, 07:11:47 PM
I'm talking about the busdriver I'm familiar with, and apparently isn't in this game. Thank you for pointing that out, I didn't realize he had to pick who they targeted.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 24, 2010, 07:22:36 PM
Phoneposting and currently in the middle of a break at work, so apologies for the rushed message. Will try to get on in a few hours to respond in more detail.

@Shkannon: I'm as confused as you are regarding the ability redirection. Yeah, I realize that a Sandor/Steven switch seems ridiculous, but unless there's another person out there switching roles then that's what happened. I've tried to logic over the reasons why someone would do that whichever team they might be on, and it made even less sense when it came out that Sandor was the busdriver. All I can do is report what happened though, however nonsensical it might be.

@SailorMoon: you want to put the medal on who you think might be scum, not town. If it lands on a townie then the game might be over as soon as the next day begins, if we even get to that point.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 24, 2010, 07:32:42 PM
Alright, the reason I'm flipping out here is because I was roleblocked last night. Raze the Kook says he was, but then takes it back. That could be true he made a mistake, but now I want to know exactly what was said in order to better verify this. If Raze isn't the roleblocker, Moon Cult other there is (by process of elimination -1 for me), and as for why she didn't jump down Raze's throat when I asked her before he made his correction is beyond me. I'm thinking she isn't reading nearly as much as she says she is. I figured the vote on the hydra (which they still hasn't told me if that was compulsory or not) was a mod vote, with her power and all. I'm still slightly suspicious of Evangeline because for a role madness game, that seems like weak power, unless it is supplemented by something. A flip of Stuffman being scum would cement her as being town for in my opinion. We have been talking about Stuffman mostly but all we really have against him is grating playstyle, we need an actual case. I needed to go T-minus 5 minutes ago. Will clarify any and all questions.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 24, 2010, 07:58:45 PM
I'm not going to give it to you word-for-word (for fear of wrath of mod), but basically, I saw something happen, then it stopped happening. I had targeted ShKanon the night before and gotten something relatively similar (I try to do something, it fails) but more blunt with her. I mistook it for being roleblocked because I refused to believe that two people had anti-night action roles that were passive.

As for roleblocking shenanigans, uhm... Hmm. Interesting. I was the one who blocked you last night, as I now know, but I never targeted John and he was roleblocked. Clearly there's another one out there, but what I'm having issues with is that we've only had one person claim to be blocked, aside from you. This has me thinking that they've been going out on night kills, as why else would there be so few blocked night actions. Unless they've been wasting them on ShKanon, but that seems like a serious waste.

##Unvote Stuffman

I need to rethink this. Scum!Mason wasn't able to do anything last night, so assuming he was scum, he'd probably be the roleblocker (short of being scumbuddies with Sailor Moon), which means he's been going on the kills, but we found a body last night. So it can't be him. That leaves Sailor Moon as probable scum, out of those two. This is solidified by the fact she hasn't been killed yet, because we've already been over the fact that there are very few circumstances where lynching Town today wouldn't lead to our imminent demise. Next up is the fact that she's been calling who's scum and who's town all game long. I may be exagerating a bit, but she's certainly called more than a few people, and her lackluster scumhunting has me loathe to believe she's just that good. (sorry, but it's how it is) This is enough to put her into scummy territory for me. Although, if Evangeline is scum, it's entirely likely she's lied about her power, and is also a candidate for being roleblocker.

As for Stuffman, much as I want to believe he's scum, I... ugh, I had something to say, but I forget what it was. (Note to self: Don't try so hard to think when your brain doesn't work right)

What I've got from this is a clear for Stone Mason. Right now, I'm assuming  a passive role and the roleblocking for the remaining scum. What really gets me, though, is that John was roleblocked Night 3, when there were only 2 left. Why would the roleblocker suddenly come out and pop in a block? And why on John, of all people? ... I'm actually asking for ideas, here. Lylo is for debate, and this is worth debating.

Stuffman is still a candidate, but I'm honestly more concerned about the roleblocker, since that one can be actively harmful to Town. It must be one of Sailor Moon or Evangeline, since it's not me, can't be Stone Mason, and both Stuffman and ShKanon have passive roles. (which also narrows down my candidates for remaining scum) What's got me interested is if... blah, no use speculating what scum COULD have, though I am seriously wondering why they targeted John of all people.

FYI, I targeted you last night, Stone Mason, because I found you next scummiest after John (And I'm actually a little miffed at this point because, yeah, I HAVE been voicing suspicion of you all game, but every single day has lead to someone coming out worse by the time I get to post and get a vote down. Well, okay. Not quite all game. But then again, I didn't have any suspicions D1).

Getting this out so people can respond and I can have a minute to clear my head. Also, because this is getting massively WoT-y
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 24, 2010, 08:59:38 PM
About me not being quickhammered; as I said before, it's potential lylo. If it didn't end up ending tonight, that'd be their downfall. Or some crazy role/vote thing is happening where there's actually only one scum now, but I doubt that.

@SailorMoon: you want to put the medal on who you think might be scum, not town. If it lands on a townie then the game might be over as soon as the next day begins, if we even get to that point.
uh

but isn't that exactly what I said ):

About the Sandor/Steven busdrive thing about Evangeline. Maybe Steven's role redirected everything away onto a random person or possibly always the scum? "Townie Oh Shi- Moment" does seem to fit something like that. Yes, I understand this is blatant rolefishing, but it's either that or Evangeline lied. And I was starting to lean towards her as town. Hmm... well, it was mostly just for putting forth more effort on D4 and start of D5 then everyone else combined. I suppose I should reread to think on whether she'd have lied about this or not.

As for Stone saying I must be the roleblocker, wh-oh wait, nevermind, Razeluxe just claimed being the roleblocker. Oh, but he's saying there's another one.

Quote from: Razeluxe
What I've got from this is a clear for Stone Mason.
Why? If there are two scum, the other could be the one NKing, and he could be the one roleblocking. You even said this, and yet dismissed Stone as town after thinking he's scum all game. Huh?

Quote from: Razeluxe
I may be exagerating a bit, but she's certainly called more than a few people, and her lackluster scumhunting has me loathe to believe she's just that good. (sorry, but it's how it is)
But- okay my response probably falls under "being lame" so I won't answer.

Actually, rolefishing for someone who can roleblock after my blurb about Raz's strange clear on Mason could be pointless, as it makes perfect sense if Mason is scum that can't be the killer and roleblocker at the same time, and I'm still wondering how Raz' decided that Stone Mason is suddenly town.

Quote from: Stone Mason
If Raze isn't the roleblocker, Moon Cult other there is (by process of elimination -1 for me)
How did you reach this conclusion, may I ask? I understand now this may not be as important since we know that Raze did indeed roleblock you, but still.

Quote from: Stone Mason
, and as for why she didn't jump down Raze's throat when I asked her before he made his correction is beyond me.
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean here. Why would I be jumping down Raz' throat about anything then? You mean about the being roleblocked or not? I thought that wasn't significant.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 24, 2010, 09:09:44 PM
but isn't that exactly what I said ):

About the Sandor/Steven busdrive thing about Evangeline. Maybe Steven's role redirected everything away onto a random person or possibly always the scum? "Townie Oh Shi- Moment" does seem to fit something like that. Yes, I understand this is blatant rolefishing, but it's either that or Evangeline lied. And I was starting to lean towards her as town.

Yeah, sorry. Was phoneposting and responding to what I saw from memory, and as it seemed like people might be jumping to vote I didn't want to risk not having the chance to get what I wanted to get out later.

asdfasfd of course all this explodes onto the scene when I'm at work and after Suwako announces a deadline. @_@; I still have another hour or two or so before I can process everything new that's come out, gotta run for now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 24, 2010, 10:36:26 PM
..oh, I guess the time limit was taken away due to the sudden burst of activity, if Suwako's last post isn't mistaken.

To ShKanon and others questioning whether I was truthful about my roleclaim, are you forgetting that I got grilled (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414328.html#msg414328) by Saki and it checked out  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414361.html#msg414361)for her? If that's not enough proof for you guys then I don't know what is. 

Combine that with the fact that she has been on every town wagon, argued for a town wagon instead of a scum wagon D1, jumped off a scum wagon to a town wagon D2, and her posts have just been generally unimpressive (I mean really, look at this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg415211.html#msg415211)) makes her our top suspect.

I've explained the reasoning behind my actions through my posts D4, so I don't really have much to add to that. If it doesn't satisfy you, then I don't really know what else to say in my defense.

...also, do you realize you singled out the stream of consciousness post that I thought would be my last post, since I was at L-1and would possibly be getting hammered while I was out at work? >_> I had about five minutes to get out everything that was on my mind before walking out the door, so I tried to comment on each remaining player. Just sayin'.



@Raze: Who did you target the night before Sandor got outed, that you say got redirected? Also, what do you mean by "I was the one who blocked you last night, as I now know,"? You didn't know who you target with your own ability, or what?

I need to rethink this. Scum!Mason wasn't able to do anything last night, so assuming he was scum, he'd probably be the roleblocker (short of being scumbuddies with Sailor Moon), which means he's been going on the kills, but we found a body last night. So it can't be him.

If you look at the roles for scum in the SA game, the scum with roles could both NK and do their night action if their goon was lynched. So we can't necessarily prescribe to the logic of "Scum used night action so they couldn't be the one that NKed."
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 24, 2010, 10:45:58 PM
My bad, deadline hasn't been removed. I just got lazy with Control-C.

16 hours are left in the day.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 24, 2010, 11:02:42 PM
Doing these in reverse post order, since apparently I can't wait until tomorrow to post with a clear head.

@Evangeline: I targeted Saki, it got redirected to Sailor Moon. And by "as I now know" I mean that it wasn't clear I had blocked him last night; but then me and the mod had a quick chat and cleared things up.

I am saddened by that fact. I thought I had finally found a genuine clue to help me work things out, and it wasn't just me being crazy. *sigh* Oh well... Maybe next time.

@Sailor Moon: I don't know how to explain that any better. Although, now that Evangeline has told me of the possibility of being able to use a night role and go out on the kill, a lot if what I said must now be scrapped.

Lackluster isn't the right word, there. It's more of... I don't know what the right word is, actually, but it doesn't seem like your scumhunting has been as eureka as you pinging on who's town and who's scum. The contrast just feels noticeable to me, is all.

Alright, need to get going now, but will be back tonight with more caffeine in my system~
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 25, 2010, 12:19:14 AM
....wait a minute.

So first, in regards to the anon vote on us, it's nothing to worry about.  It comes from us not saying that "Suwako is amazing" nearly enough.  And yes, I am completely serious.  We have a post restriction that says we must praise Suwako in at least half our posts every day.  You can verify this without reading my horrible walls just by CTRL + Fing for "Suwako" and looking through my posts.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shkannon


Why are you lying?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 25, 2010, 12:23:41 AM
Realizing now that people have been really spotty with the times they're able to be on, so I won't withhold my continuation.

Explain D3. You didn't mention Suwako at all that day, and yet the anonvote didn't get on you until the start of D4. According to your claim there would have to be TWO anonvotes, with one conveniently disappearing at the same time that your role restriction kicked in.

Tracking the course of the anonvote: It first appeared (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407253.html#msg407253) on Sandor D2 with 3.5 hours left in the day. It jumped to Saki at the beginning of D3, then jumped to you D4 and D5. And now you're trying to say it's the result of a role restriction, and completely unrelated to the other mod vote? Yeah, i'm not buying it.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 25, 2010, 12:38:20 AM
Evangeline:Sandor's was confirmed to be from his role, wasn't it? And maybe Suwako just didn't kick in the Shannonvote until D4 started for whatever reason, which would account for everything except Saki's anonvote. And for all we know, she had a role restriction too.

I don't see how it would make any sense for these to be anything other then role restriction votes, and while it kicked in on Shannon a little late, it's still fairly reasonable.

Although, if you've got any other theories on what's going on, I'd love to hear it. It's just, the votes seem useless and random if they're actually being controlled by someone, so that wouldn't make sense. Why would Shannon even lie about it, for that matter? What in the world would she have to gain from such an action, in any role?

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 25, 2010, 01:45:07 AM
Moon: Assuming everyone was being completely honest, Evangeline has the persona tracker, Shannon and Kanon are RARGH Hydra, Stuff has been going on about +1 Vote for a hammer (which I still find odd as I cannot let anyone know how my power activates, why can he?), and John, confirmed town, was roleblocked (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg412649.html#msg412649) N3, I pursued this a bit further, Raz goes kooky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414790.html#msg414790) again, seems like he doesn't know anything about John's roleblock (even though it is he and I whom are most suspicious (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg410509.html#msg410509) at that time), thus of unknowns, that leaves Moon. I directed my question toward you assuming you were the roleblocker, knowing that you targeted me, and seeing if Raz was lying (rather than mistaken). You must not be the roleblocker, considering that despite your alignment, you would be eager to catch someone in a lie (unless you were both scumbuddies), and that Raz has claimed the role.

School Girl: I don't think those are traveling votes, I think those are penalty (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg410662.html#msg410662) votes.

We now have a deadline, if we are voting Stuffman I woud like a case other than his playstyle, because looking into him, there is only a small clear of Sandor here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg408705.html#msg408705) before Saki v. Sandor. That shouldn't be enough.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Decade on August 25, 2010, 01:47:27 AM
Explain D3. You didn't mention Suwako at all that day, and yet the anonvote didn't get on you until the start of D4. According to your claim there would have to be TWO anonvotes, with one conveniently disappearing at the same time that your role restriction kicked in.
Really, so how else are you supposed to count across half of a day's posts until that day has, y'know, already ended? Protip: think a little here, seriously.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 25, 2010, 01:56:10 AM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (2): Silver Medal, Shoe, Shoe
Shannon (2): Seth MacFarlane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stuff Man (0): Shoe, Shoe, Razeluxe Meitzen
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Shannon

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch, so Sailor Moon and Shannon are at L-2. You have 13 hours remaining.

EDIT: Also just tossing up one more friendly reminder to, well, be friendly.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 25, 2010, 03:38:14 AM
Evangeline:Sandor's was confirmed to be from his role, wasn't it? And maybe Suwako just didn't kick in the Shannonvote until D4 started for whatever reason, which would account for everything except Saki's anonvote. And for all we know, she had a role restriction too.

I don't see how it would make any sense for these to be anything other then role restriction votes, and while it kicked in on Shannon a little late, it's still fairly reasonable.

...oh, derp. Completely slipped my mind about Sandor's role restriction. Still, there was never any hints that Saki's was a penalty vote, so I thought of the anonvote as originating from one place.

Quote
Although, if you've got any other theories on what's going on, I'd love to hear it. It's just, the votes seem useless and random if they're actually being controlled by someone, so that wouldn't make sense. Why would Shannon even lie about it, for that matter? What in the world would she have to gain from such an action, in any role?

I got the feeling that the votes were the result of one person's power and not a series of role restrictions, but that may have been a coincidence. Since there's never been more than one anonvote out there at a time and all. I was guessing that someone had a weird gimmicky ability that allowed them to throw an anonvote out there that worked like a Silver Medal except not controlled by the person who has it. Or that they had the ability to mask an extra vote if they fulfilled conditions of some kind.

Really, so how else are you supposed to count across half of a day's posts until that day has, y'know, already ended? Protip: think a little here, seriously.

Sandor's role restriction hit him in the middle of the day, and it's now unreasonable to think that yours would too?

While we're here, can you provide an explanation of what you were fishing for here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409887.html#msg409887)? It struck me as odd, and you never fully explained as far as I saw.

@Mason: Right now for me it's a tossup between Shkannon and Stuffman, depending on how Shkannon responds. She's accusing me of dishonesty regarding my role and results when Saki said it checked out. So either Saki is lying, Shkannon completely missed that part of D4, or she's trying to push a townie train while we're still uncertain and approaching deadline.

As for Stuffman, It's really hard to make awesome cases on a lot of people because there's been too much lurking going on this game. Aside from the lurking he's made inane cases and kept off the big wagons for most of the game, comes in acting like an observer looking to get the 2nd vote by hammering Sandor, expects us to assume that we'd be ok with this because he's obvtown,. He's all but given up at this point too. He stood out as the most scummy and anti-town of this current group. Still haven't made up my mind about ShKannon.



Also, does anyone have a good theory of what Saki/Sailor Moon's busdriver switch N2 might imply about Sailor Moon's alignment? Would it have been beneficial to switch Saki with a scumbuddy, or would it have been more likely for him to switch two Townies?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 25, 2010, 04:49:06 AM
I think Hydra's power is more town than scum.

And regarding Moon, it really is hard to say. It would more sense to me that Sandor would be protecting a scum buddy, it isn't likely that he is lying, as he seemed to think Saki would know who his targets were. But I really don't have a damned clue.

How are you feeling about Raz?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 25, 2010, 05:48:42 AM
EBWOP: I meant that I targeted Sailor Moon and hit Saki instead. Sorry. My bad. Reading what's been posted since my last one, now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 25, 2010, 06:24:06 AM
I think Hydra's power is more town than scum.

The 'resists all night actions' part or the 'praise Suwako-sama' part? I feel like both could go either way. The latter one too, in the pretext of "One of Kanako's followers needs to be extra careful by making sure they play up Suwako worship" or just "You are uber devout Suwako follower so this is your restriction". I don't see any clear way to designate a role as more likely scum or town in this setup outside of the staple cop or doctor.

As for Raz, it's a chore to slough through his posts for how stream-of-consciousey they are. I'm bothered and slightly paranoid because of what happened D1 and D2, and it feels like all you guys could be seen as scum if I squint hard enough and go over posts with a fine-toothed comb. And this post that just ninja'd mine makes me wonder even more, since Saki never gave the impression that she got roleblocked (and that means she would have had to investigate Sandor N2 and me on N1 or N0). Not unreasonable since I was pushing the counterwagon to Gamzee N1.


...ugh. I'm falling asleep at my desk, but this is the last big post i'll be able to make before deadline. I'll have an opportunity to vote in the morning before work and read what was posted while I sleep, but that's about it.

Final thoughts: If I had to pick two to lynch -right now- as our remaining scum, I'd say Razeluxe and Shkannon. Wish I had enough time to draw up a good case on either of them, but I don't. Fuck.

Stuffman's been very anti-town and not very helpful lately, but I can totally see the player acting this way if he were a townie >_>; His play just seems like laziness on his part more than anything, but maybe that's exactly what he WANTS me to think. Mindhax is dumb and i'm not playing the WIFOM game.

Sailor Moon feels town to me (her voting patterns in the past help a lot in my eyes), and I gave her the Silver Medal instead of Stuffman because I worried if Stuffman got the doublevote AND Silver Medal AND was scum then this would truly be our last day.

And between Stone Mason, Shkannon, and Raze, Mason feels the most townie to me from his posts today. Yeah, I realize that's not really helpful analysis-wise but it's all I can manage right now. Sorry guys.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 25, 2010, 06:28:39 AM
For more gravy on the Stuffman train, he's the worst lurker of the rest of us (aside from possibly ShKanon, but the Hydra stuff kinda implies good reason for not being around) only to pop up every now and then to ask for the hammer on the trains, and only comes out towards the end of the day yesterday to pester us more about getting the hammer, and then early today when he thinks he can get a train going on me. Also, he's breadcrumbed suspicions about me previous to today.

Anyway, I may as well come clean, since apparently I've caused a fair amount of confusion with my secrecy. I am the one who gave Miyako the Silver Medal, I gave Saki her anonvote (not on purpose), and I blocked Stone Mason last night. My targets were, in order: Satoshi Hojo, Miyako Miyamura, Sailor Moon, ShKanon, Stone Mason. My role is very... random. See, I have this special wand that'll do... something, each night. My results were as follows: Satoshi Hojo didn't go anywhere on N0; Miyako Miyamura was given a silver medal; Saki has been given a mod vote; I try to point my wand at ShKanon, but it just won't work; Stone Mason's body glowed for the night, and the glow faded as Day came. I targeted Satoshi because, uhh, N0 with a random power. Targeted Miyako because she was the best bet I had for scum at the time, on an admittedly super weak case. Sailor Moon because I had absolutely no clue who to target and just went with the first name that came to mind, which is also why it didn't register right away when Saki's name came back to me; I had to ask the mod to make sure I had actually targeted Sailor Moon. ShKanon to test if the ability was passive or not (it is). And, finally, Stone Mason for what I said in my last post. I was fully hoping that it would be another form of vote, and I'd be able to get a train going on you. I left a hint about that at the very beginning of my first post today, too. I'll be honest, though. The role is entirely a nulltell--or, at the very least, neutral value, because not only do I not know who is town and who is scum, but I also don't know if I'll do something positive, negative, or in-between. So please don't waste your time trying to figure that out.

Stone Mason, just a quick question. Who are you asking about their feelings on me?

The case on ShKanon lying about her role restriction is pointless. It has been confirmed that for days 3 and 4 she didn't do what she said she needed to, and she got anonvotes on her Days 4 and 5. This makes absolute perfect sense, given the restriction. "Praise me for half the day, or I will vote you." Like (s)he said, you can't know what half the day's post count is if the day hasn't ended. I honestly don't see where the case is, here.

I'm going to make another call out to try and find a role blocker, because one obviously exists. Either that, or there's someone else with my exact same power who just so happened to get role blocking N3. (Also, I'm only noticing this now because of the mention of role blocking. Reminded me that it was said before, went back and checked it, saw John make the claim. Which I really regret missing, though, because that really should've been discussed before he was lynched)

Getting this out there now for same reasons as getting the last one out, plus I actually do have more to say, but I'd rather keep discussion alive than keep this all to myself right now.

Ninja'd by Evangeline. Ok, getting this out NOW so you can read this. READ THIS. Think on it through the night.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 25, 2010, 06:33:36 AM
Rest of the ninja: Okay, wait. So you're willing to vote me or ShKanon right now as your pick for scum, but not because you genuinely find us scummy, only because you find other people more townie. And then you also say that you can read Stuffman's actions as town, but that he's still been entirely unhelpful and anti-town. That... is a neutral read if ever I saw one, unless there is something seriously big I'm missing here. So why not Stuffman? Why does he suddenly get a pass from you? Especially when you were so willing to vote him earlier today.

##Vote: Stuffman Because I'm sticking to my guns here, but I still want to find the real roleblocker.

Alright, back to the rest of what's to be said, because getting my messages out to Evangeline before she heads to bed (hopefully) is important. I like answers, especially since I won't be around for deadline, I don't think.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 25, 2010, 06:53:02 AM
asdfadsfafsd i'm so screwed for work in the morning oh well.

I didn't give Stuffman a clear. I said that he was 50/50 in my mind. I singled out either you or Shkannon because you two were the most likely I saw working in tandem, and Stuffman seemed more like a loner in this than anything. That and I couldn't decide whether your frazzledness was a result of frazzled townie or stressed out scum trying to dig themself out of a hole. Your last post seems reasonable to me though, and you have been somewhat consistent over the game. And you answered some of the thoughts that were bothering me in your last post, and seems believable enough. At least you've been posting a decent amount today, unlike Stuffman or Shkannon (who is a hydra yet still manages to lurk the most out of the group? Blows my mind.)

Shkannon or Stuffman. One of those two. Final vote in the morning. Night.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Kiva-la on August 25, 2010, 07:04:24 AM
...Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. I'm torn right now, since you have a clear contradiction going between your last few posts. I'm reading just a bit up on this very same page and seeing you claim your picks as Stuffman or ShKanon, and then in your last post it's me or ShKanon? With no reasoning behind the switch, either. But on the other hand... hmm. Checking back, I'm not seeing where Saki clears your role, Evangeline. Rather, she creates an entire case on you. And... damn. I feel stupid for not following Saki earlier. Massive props to her, since now that I'm actually looking at what she's said, it's all solid, proves she's done her homework, and is actively pro-town. Also, thanks to her, I noticed that scum really do seem to have habits. ShKanon is all but proven Town to me thanks to Sandor's insistence on focusing on her, Steven, Shoe, and I. 2 of whom are proven Town, and I know that I'm town so that makes it 3/4, and I'm willing to bet my money that the fourth isn't scum.

Look back on what Saki said D4. Everything she said still applies. The only things we have that are new are role information (which I don't regret getting mine out there, since I fully expect to die tonight) and the ball being dropped.

Stone Mason and ShKanon are pretty much confirmed Town to me. Sailor Moon is neutral. Evangeline and Stuffman are my picks for scum right now. Both of them have dropped the ball today (and this is why discussion is good. Eventually, even practiced scum will drop the ball). I refuse to let the day end without one of them dying. Also what gets me about Evangeline is that (just got ninja'd on the preview) she's flip-flopping on her vote targets, and has seemingly agreed with all the cases presented today without actually posting anything new, aside from the ShKanon stuff, which I've already talked about how terrible it is.

Again, if you want a case on Stuffman, read my posts from earlier today, or some of Saki's posts from yesterday. There is a case. And the lurking that matches Gamzee and Sandor's give-up is just another clue.

I want a Stuffman lynch tonight, since we (pretty much) know he's scum, and then we can work out who the second one is. Though I'm quite convinced it's Evangeline. I wish I could be more eloquent about my case, but I am so very, very, very tired. All I know is that ShKanon is definitely town, Stone Mason is acting Townie, Sailor Moon has been consistent, Evangeline has not been consistent even in the last few hours, nor has she given much reasoning behind her words, and Stuffman is basically confirmed scum. Normally I would want Stuffman left alive because we know he's scum and thus finding the other scum would be better (if another sure thing can be found) but I refuse to let him survive the day when it's p.lylo, and anything less than pure confidence might have Town lose.

Shoe, I beg of you, please vote for Stuffman. I really believe him more likely to be scum than Sailor Moon, and he's pretty much confirmed it with the disappearing act. Please.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Skull on August 25, 2010, 07:05:03 AM
Hahaha. Raz you kook, I think your power is way too crazy for that to be made up. So theoretically you can play any role.

Alright then, let's .... rock.

##Vote: Stuffman
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 25, 2010, 07:19:30 AM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (2): Silver Medal, Shoe, Shoe
Shannon (2): Seth MacFarlane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stuff Man (2): Shoe, Shoe, Razeluxe Meitzen, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Shannon

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch, so Sailor Moon, Shannon and Stuff Man are all at L-2. You have about 7 1/2 hours remaining.

Word of warning: I will be back before the deadline hits. I may not be back before a hammer falls. Please stop posting as soon as someone reaches four votes. If Cirno or Sunny Milk see a hammer has been dropped they have the authority to enforce people shutting up.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 25, 2010, 09:12:52 AM
Quote from: Stone Mason #444
We have been talking about Stuffman mostly but all we really have against him is grating playstyle, we need an actual case.
Hahaha. Raz you kook, I think your power is way too crazy for that to be made up. So theoretically you can play any role.

Alright then, let's .... rock.

##Vote: Stuffman

So where's your case when you pushed my lynch to enven the numbers? Nice one agreeing with Razeluxe and no backing.

Quote from: Razeluxe #445
As for Stuffman, much as I want to believe he's scum, I... ugh, I had something to say, but I forget what it was.

You never got round to doing this.

Quote from: Evangeline #460
Mindhax is dumb and i'm not playing the WIFOM game.

Stop using words that you don't know the meaning of. Mindhax doesn't work like that. It's knowing your person well enough to make the prediction that you were sweating when making the post. The only person I could have mindhax'd this game was Shoe because of how obvious she was to me.

Quote from: Razeluxe #461
For more gravy on the Stuffman train, he's the worst lurker of the rest of us (aside from possibly ShKanon, but the Hydra stuff kinda implies good reason for not being around) only to pop up every now and then to ask for the hammer on the trains, and only comes out towards the end of the day yesterday to pester us more about getting the hammer, and then early today when he thinks he can get a train going on me. Also, he's breadcrumbed suspicions about me previous to today.

I mentioned that I was busy and wouldn't post much. Whether or not I get a hammer is uni9mportant as I had already mentioned that on Day 2. Since the situation arose where I could be the hammer vote, I asked for it. So tell us how is this not you flinging whatever shit you hope will stick because none of these are inherently things indicating scum.

Razeluxe and Stone Mason are the scum as I've said before. Mutual chainsaws and clears based on what, spotty role speculation?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Decade on August 25, 2010, 09:36:47 AM
Urgh oh my god I am seconding the claim that Razeluxe's power is just flat-out too insane to be scummy. That and I've gone over him again and cleared him yet again, so yeah. Evangeline...

Quote
Sandor's role restriction hit him in the middle of the day, and it's now unreasonable to think that yours would too?
This is silly - is there any reason for all role restrictions to function in the same way? Not only that, but "X's role restriction functions differently from Y's role restriction, therefore X is scum!" is really piss-poor logic at best (and certainly is not helped by the fact that Y flipped scum in this case).

Quote
@Mason: Right now for me it's a tossup between Shkannon and Stuffman, depending on how Shkannon responds. She's accusing me of dishonesty regarding my role and results when Saki said it checked out. So either Saki is lying, Shkannon completely missed that part of D4, or she's trying to push a townie train while we're still uncertain and approaching deadline.
On the contrary, I went over Saki's D4 posting and found a couple... interesting things. First off, I'd be very impressed if Saki managed to find out any details about your role, considering that she stated here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409591.html#msg409591) that she is not a rolecop!
Secondly, I found Saki's post about you targeting Steven and it getting redirected to S?ndor, which is here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414361.html#msg414361) - this is far from a clear. "Checks out within limits, I still have to think if that is a non-scum train of thought" is not exactly what I'd call a clear.
Thirdly, there's this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg414361.html#msg414361) little tidbit, which hammers home the point that, well, whatever information Saki got from her role, whatever it was, was not sufficient to absolve you from being scum, or even make you all that much less suspicious. Therefore...yeah. Not seeing your point here, at all.

(In fact I think I have a good guess as to what Saki's role idea is thanks to some ideas from Shannon, and the fact that it's similar to a role I've seen in a role madness game that was extremely prominent in it makes me only feel more confident about this. I don't think it's terribly relevant to disclose right now as it's only a theory, but if enough people want me to state it anyway, I'll do so).

(Oh, by the way, did I mention Suwako was great in this post yet? :P Because if not, then I'll have to say that Suwako is great! Cures cancer, solves global warming and takes out the trash every day before the racoons get into it - who could argue with a Goddess like that?)

Anyway, onto the late D5 silliness! Pretty much seconding everything that Raz states in his latest set of posts, and I'm still not a fan of D4 shenanigans where the hammer was dropped on McClane a whole four hours before deadline, while there was a post stating that I was catching up to the game a little over an hour before the hammer was dropped, which apparently was ignored. I mean maybe I'm working off of a different set of timings here, but four hours before deadline is a *lot* of time as far as I'm concerned! Anyway, I simply love Evangeline's waffling that seems to focus on everyone but StuffMan. It reminds me a bit of this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg415211.html#msg415211) post, where never before has anyone else managed to use so many words to say so little. For a case on Evangeline, read my earlier stuff today, Saki's stuff on D4 and earlier, and the immediate set of posts above detailing her interaction with myself, Razeluxe (who I pretty strongly believe to be all-but-confirmed town at the moment), and StuffMan.

I still would rather lynch Evangeline today, as I'm pretty much certain she is scum, as opposed to StuffMan who I'm a tad iffy on, but I am prepared to switch to StuffMan at deadline. I don't find Sailor Moon to be likely scum at all, and I'm sufficiently certain that Stone Mason is fairly unlikely to be scum in comparison to Evangeline/StuffMan, so...yeah.

Ninja StuffMan: I'm not seeing the case on Razeluxe at all, mind re-stating it, especially in the light of Raz's recently-revealed role information?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: W on August 25, 2010, 10:03:12 AM
The hammer on McClane was because there weren't enough votes willing to budge and I was going to sleep. You all know who I am already and that deadline is not in favour of my time zone.

Firstly, why is a role any indication of alignment? When did it become a valid clear because I never recalled it ever being the case.

Before Razeluxe's claim, I noticed he had never been the first vote on any person. More specifically, he would never vote someone unless the person already had another vote on them. It didn't hurt him to do it and I find it very streange that he has such an aversion to it. People have voted me before and nothing happened to them, if he wasn't in to commit the first vote, then it must be something to do with his role that prevents him from doing it. So I should say he's left out this part of his role and lied about fullclaiming.

Other than today and Day 2 when he did get pressured, he's been severely lacking in activity. The times he did post on those off days have all been stream-of-consciousness-you-can't-hold-it-against-me-for-brainfartposts-hurr. If you consider me to be active lurking, then so has he. If I'm scummy for it, so is he.

Wagon analyses: Day 1 he didn't make a convincing vote. Day 2 has flipflop (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg407199.html#msg407199) voting, not sure if it ever got cleared up what he was doing. Day 3 ignored and stayed off lynched scum. Day 4 I believe he was pressing McClane to prevent people from piling onto Stone Mason, someone he's mentioned was bad for several days as opposed to one day.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: DiEnd on August 25, 2010, 10:36:52 AM
God dammit this sucks. I just woke up and I have to leave for school in a few minutes, after which I will NOT be back in time for deadline, managed to read all the new posts and thats about it.

I know I do NOT want to lynch Shkannon or Razeluxe today. Being unable to change my vote after now, voting Stone Mason regardless of what I think of him looks like it would be useless, so I won't bother wasting a precious minute thinking about it. Evangeline I'm having trouble wanting to vote because of her high amount of contribution, but if she's slipping up or something, well, I suppose I could indeed go back to the case on her I had D4 and add this on. Except I don't have time to reread and decide, so I'm stuck with the wariness, which leaves one choice, ##Vote:Stuffman.

Stone Mason and Evangeline are the two I'll be most considering to throw my silver medal at because they're the people I haven't decided to clear as town so far, assuming Stuffman is lynched. If Evangeline is lynched, then I'll probably throw it at Stuffman. Thankfully I'll be able to reread by the time I've gotta use the Silver Medal, so I'll be able to make a better decision on how I feel about people then the frantic rush of now.

See ya tomorrow, fold.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Ryuki on August 25, 2010, 11:46:28 AM
Ugh, so many words with so little time. All I'll say is that It blows my mind that you're revealing this stuff like it's new information here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg421366.html#msg421366) while completely ignoring my post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg420672.html#msg420672). I never said Saki's grilling absolved me of being scum, but that it refuted your claim here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg420356.html#msg420356) that you made involving my statement about what happened N1 with the redirect.

This is silly - is there any reason for all role restrictions to function in the same way? Not only that, but "X's role restriction functions differently from Y's role restriction, therefore X is scum!" is really piss-poor logic at best (and certainly is not helped by the fact that Y flipped scum in this case).

I'll piss-poor your logic, Jerky McJerk Jerk. My logic was that I thought I had caught you in a lie, and my 'is it really unreasonable?' was in response to your smarmy comment that saw it completely outside the realm of possibility that your ability would work in the way I had thought.

Really, so how else are you supposed to count across half of a day's posts until that day has, y'know, already ended? Protip: think a little here, seriously.

Really, I should be asking -you- if there's any reason why I should assume role restrictions should function one way or another. And Raz, I'd respond more in depth but it feels like you're either intentionally omitting parts of my posts in your interpretation of me, or you really need to reread my posts.

Ugh, whatever, i'm done. Totally threw the 'five minutes in and out' plan out of the window. Hope this isn't gg, folks.

##Unvote
##Vote: Stuffman
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 25, 2010, 02:10:37 PM
Wow, what a blood-thirsty lot! You want me to take out one of your fellow forum users? You really think he's actually capable of anything other than mysteriously transforming from Parsee into Yuugi? Well, all right.

...

...Nope, nothing here. Can't say I'm surprised. What was he going to do if he WAS a Yasaka drone? Type at me? Pfeh.

Stuff Man, Town Pete Seeger, was lynched my majority!
Shoe has vanished into the aether!


Night 5 begins now. Submit night actions if you've got 'em.

Final Day 5 Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (2): Silver Medal, Shoe, Shoe
Shannon (2): Seth MacFarlane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stuff Man (4): Shoe, Shoe, Razeluxe Meitzen, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Shannon
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 5
Post by: Cirno on August 26, 2010, 03:23:02 AM
You guys are still at this? My game came out a couple of weeks ago, so I thought the commotion would have died down by now. Well, I'll just take it as a testament to my greatness.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Night 5
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 26, 2010, 07:17:47 AM
Huh...looks like we're down two more instead of just one. Must be Remilia's doing, taking out her own clone and borroning someone that can fix up that dilapidated house of hers.

Whatever. I tire of your antics, mortals. No more games. You're deciding this here and now.

Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Town Metaknight, was killed overnight!
Stone Mason, Town Psych Whore, was killed overnight!

With 3 alive, 2 votes will lynch. This is the final day. LYLO rules are in effect. You have no time limit. Happy hunting! (And don't make me institute another deadline, seriously.)

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 26, 2010, 08:34:47 PM
I just got back from school and what is this.

Both of my suspects are dead and have flipped town.

What.

I'm supposing now is the time to roleclaim? I'm a German Suplex.

I have a one-shot demask that I used on N0, learning Evangeline was Nobu. Woo?

One-shot of Doctor, used on Shoe N1. I really felt she would be scum's target due to becoming obvtown, but NOPE.  ;_;

And lastly, I have a one-shot kill, but I can only use it when I die, or if I'm alive on the night of LyLo. Night 5 I was told I could use my shot, and I targeted Evangeline. Everyone else wanted to kill her; if she was scum, then yay I got rid of her, if she wasn't scum, then thank goodness I just stopped Town from lynching her on LyLo and losing the game.


I figured if she was town, Stone would be my next highest priority, and he's who I targetted with my Silver Medal. But he's dead too, apparently. And also town. Well, shit.

I'm... not sure what to do now. I need to reread both of you. I still think Shkannon is town, but I definitely should reread again.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 27, 2010, 12:21:32 PM
...is crushing silence normal for 3-person lylo?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 27, 2010, 01:25:17 PM
It isn't.

Come on, guys, don't be groobers.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 27, 2010, 06:48:30 PM
Sorry, was out for the past couple days. I also targeted Evangeline last night, and got back she was Town. This saddens me that my action was wasted.

I'm... gonna need some serious time to rethink this. I honestly want to go after Sailor Moon right now just because clearly all of my instincts have been totally wrong all game, except for when I feel someone is Town. And I felt that ShKanon was scum, and then Town, like Stone Mason. And ugh. This is a headache.

Sailor Moon, why did you pass the medal on to Stone Mason? What made him your next highest priority?

ShKanon, any thoughts on anything?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 27, 2010, 07:47:58 PM
And lastly, I have a one-shot kill, but I can only use it when I die, or if I'm alive on the night of LyLo. Night 5 I was told I could use my shot, and I targeted Evangeline. Everyone else wanted to kill her; if she was scum, then yay I got rid of her, if she wasn't scum, then thank goodness I just stopped Town from lynching her on LyLo and losing the game.
Really. A one-shot kill, with the most odd specifics that I've seen in awhile? I know this is a Bastard Mod(TM) game and all that, but seriously?

It gets more interesting than that. By now it's probably common knowledge that we are untargetable (Umineko barrier magic and all that), and N3 we were targeted by Razeluxe. There was also a death N3, and there must be at most 1 scum remaining, because, well, otherwise this wouldn't be LYLO, this would be a scum win of the game. Therefore either there is a secondary killing party that used their NK that night, and scum hit someone that was protected somehow, orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... you'd have to be the killing party.

Speaking of which, has anyone owned up to roleblocking McClane N3? Because it certainly wasn't Raze, considering he did indeed target me, and it certainly wasn't myself either, so, uh, yeah. >_>

Furthermore, Sailor Moon, why were you going to place the medal on someone in a day which otherwise was likely to be LYLO? (given that it was pseudo-LYLO the day before, and we failed to lynch scum that day). That seems like a generally anti-town decision to make, as it makes one player easier to lynch. Oh, and Mr.Mason flipped Town. How convenient.

Moreover, since the Silver Medal gives you an extra vote to place on someone in LYLO and thus is inherently an Anti-Town thing to use in such a situation, assuming that you killed Evangeline, regardless of the method used, why not also use the Silver Medal on her, thus killing it along with Evangeline? That would be the proper pro-Town method of doing things.

Wait, if you claim to be a town one-shot vig who shot Evangeline, then you must have had some pretty huge bollocks to place the Silver Medal on someone for today... either you'd have to be 100% certain they're town (moreso than... the rest of the town as you're basically deciding the lynch for that day!), or you'd have to be certain that the scum nightkill was otherwise blocked, because then we'd be facing 3P LYLO with someone already at L-1... someone who already flipped town.

At least your voting history's solid, right? Well, that's actually sort of interesting.
For starters, here's this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg404631.html#msg404631) post. Remind me again what's so bad about voting for someone who has a staggering one or two votes on them? Not to mention that pressure votes are inherently worthless. Not to mention you later say in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg406198.html#msg406198) that Sandor is your top pick for scum, Mr.Mason is "also up there", but the swingvote makes you not want to lynch him as much, and yet your vote is squatting on Stone Mason and in fact has done so since *the beginning of the day*. I'm not sure what your intentions are there, but that certainly reads absolutely godawfully. Your vote remained on Mason before moving to Steven Stone a couple minutes before deadline. Finally, you hop on Sandor with an actual, y'know, vote this time, BUT! it is only AFTER Saki's post virtually guarantees it (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409168.html#msg409168) (and being on the same team as him, you'd know that Saki was telling the truth here). Interesting that you vote for Sandor before Saki/Sandor post any further details about the aforementioned rigmarole (and after writing a post where you claim to waffle a lot!).

D4 was a vote on someone who we know to be town by now, and that was looking towards being lynched before the McClane ninjawagon appeared semi-out-of-nowhere.

D5 is, um, fantastic. For instance, we have:

I don't want to vote StuffMan, he might be some sort of bomb or reverse-bomb (how does that even work, exactly?) or something! But everyone agrees that he's so scummy that despite the fact that we're in pseudo-LYLO, I'm going ask if anyone cares if I reread him and make sure if he's actually scummy, because that takes effort and just letting him get lynched anyway doesn't. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg419394.html#msg419394) Oh, by the way, StuffMan flipped town. Good job there, my friend. Oh, by the way, Sailor Moon manages to pull off somehow actually not voting for a single person for almost the entire day, only finally voting for StuffMan around deadline when their lynch was virtually guaranteed. Classy. Real classy there.

So yeah. Care to tell us what you were up to Night 3, my good Sailor Moon? And why you decided to place the Silver Medal on someone who flipped Town knowing that if you really were a one-shot town vig instead of, y'know, scum, we'd be in 3P LYLO and a mis-placing of it would cost town the game? Especially when if you really were a vig, you could have simply gotten rid of it by placing it on Evangeline before shooting her? Because I'm really curious about all of these things right about now. Really curious.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 27, 2010, 07:49:28 PM
EBWOP: "either you'd have to be 100% certain they're town" should obviously be "either you'd have to be 100% certain they're scum".
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 27, 2010, 07:55:28 PM
Oh, ShKanon, don't forget that Sailor Moon declared yesterday that she would target me with the Medal if Stuffman flipped Town, so she also lied about that.

Anyway, still re-reading, and won't say more on this until Sailor Moon's had a chance to defend herself. (It is the fair thing, after all)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 27, 2010, 08:03:52 PM
Forgot to mention that I targeted Evangeline because I thought she was one of the next scummiest, and again, was hoping for something negative to happen to her. For me, it was a toss-up between her and Sailor Moon. My gut said Evangeline.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 27, 2010, 08:46:38 PM
Scroll down past all the quotes (except the ending one of course) if you want to skip to what I feel is my best defense against Shkannon's accusations. After that, the rest of my post feels very wimpy in comparison.

Oh yeah, and sorry about lolquotestriping.  :derp:

Sailor Moon, why did you pass the medal on to Stone Mason? What made him your next highest priority?
There was you, Shkannon, and Stone Mason. Shkannon I felt was town. I thought it was more likely Stone Mason was scum then you.
Oh, ShKanon, don't forget that Sailor Moon declared yesterday that she would target me with the Medal if Stuffman flipped Town, so she also lied about that.
What? I said I was going to target Stone Mason or Evangeline, not you. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg421387.html#msg421387)

In a previous post I said that I was for certain going to throw it at one person whose identity I fail to recall right now, unless Stuffman flipped town in which case it would be you or that person and I wasn't sure which. There was a lot of big information revealed after that post, and I changed my mind about how I wanted to use it.

It gets more interesting than that. By now it's probably common knowledge that we are untargetable (Umineko barrier magic and all that), and N3 we were targeted by Razeluxe. There was also a death N3, and there must be at most 1 scum remaining, because, well, otherwise this wouldn't be LYLO, this would be a scum win of the game. Therefore either there is a secondary killing party that used their NK that night, and scum hit someone that was protected somehow, orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... you'd have to be the killing party.
Or, if Razeluxe is scum, he can kill and use his ability in the same night.
Quote
Speaking of which, has anyone owned up to roleblocking McClane N3? Because it certainly wasn't Raze, considering he did indeed target me, and it certainly wasn't myself either, so, uh, yeah. >_>
Don't think so. Maybe it was someone who died between then and now?

Quote
Furthermore, Sailor Moon, why were you going to place the medal on someone in a day which otherwise was likely to be LYLO? (given that it was pseudo-LYLO the day before, and we failed to lynch scum that day). That seems like a generally anti-town decision to make, as it makes one player easier to lynch. Oh, and Mr.Mason flipped Town. How convenient.

Moreover, since the Silver Medal gives you an extra vote to place on someone in LYLO and thus is inherently an Anti-Town thing to use in such a situation, assuming that you killed Evangeline, regardless of the method used, why not also use the Silver Medal on her, thus killing it along with Evangeline? That would be the proper pro-Town method of doing things.
I see the logic behind these things things you're saying. I wish I had thought like this last night. But I was thinking in terms of "I really don't think the other two choices are scum so it must be this one!" and wanted to help get the person who I thought must be scum, lynched.

I didn't even realize how, assuming scum didn't also target Evangeline (Which would be stupid since she was the top suspect, they would not want to kill her), there would be three people left and only two votes needed to lynch, therefore meaning Mason could be quickhammered by any single person. That was my mistake. I'm sorry.

Quote
Wait, if you claim to be a town one-shot vig who shot Evangeline, then you must have had some pretty huge bollocks to place the Silver Medal on someone for today... either you'd have to be 100% certain they're town scum (moreso than... the rest of the town as you're basically deciding the lynch for that day!), or you'd have to be certain that the scum nightkill was otherwise blocked, because then we'd be facing 3P LYLO with someone already at L-1... someone who already flipped town.
I'm sorry for not realizing this. I also didn't realize I could eliminate the Silver Medal with my Evangeline kill, partially since people holding the medal had been nk'd multiple times before. Although now I realize that OH DUH, they got to pass it with their night action while they died.

Quote
Oh, by the way, Sailor Moon manages to pull off somehow actually not voting for a single person for almost the entire day, only finally voting for StuffMan around deadline when their lynch was virtually guaranteed. Classy. Real classy there.
Because it was, uh, y'know, potential LyLo. And at that point, Stuffman and Evangeline were tied in votes as well, so it could have gone to either of them.

Quote
So yeah. Care to tell us what you were up to Night 3, my good Sailor Moon?
Having a cup of tea? :derp: Nothing much, really.

Quote
And why you decided to place the Silver Medal on someone who flipped Town knowing that if you really were a one-shot town vig instead of, y'know, scum, we'd be in 3P LYLO and a mis-placing of it would cost town the game? Especially when if you really were a vig, you could have simply gotten rid of it by placing it on Evangeline before shooting her? Because I'm really curious about all of these things right about now. Really curious.
I took the idiot ball and ran with it. It happens to the best of us sometimes, and I tend to do that anyway. Not that that is ANY kind of excuse, it really isn't, but there's nothing else I can say on the matter.

Okay, now here's something I have to say in my defense. This is the part of my post I feel is very important.

If I was scum, that means I had a one-shot kill I didn't use until the night of LyLo. I then proceeded to claim the kill and make up a ridiculous reason why I hadn't used it earlier. And I used said one-shot kill to get rid of the person everyone else thought was certainly scum and would probably lynch in LyLo.

Not only THAT, BUT, it means with the regular nightkill, I killed Stone Mason, my OTHER person I was calling as scum (Which person was standard nk or one-shot doesn't matter but w/e), AND! I GOT RID OF THE SILVER FUCKING MEDAL ON HIM THAT WOULD HAVE WON ME THE GAME AS SOON AS THE NEXT DAY STARTED.

If I was scum, why the FUCK would I do something so INCREDIBLY retarded. Seriously. I'd be beating myself in the face if that happened. I'd have just thrown away a very easy win. So why, again, does killing Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroying the Silver Medal make me scum, Shkannon?
Quote
Because I'm really curious about all of these things right about now. Really curious.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 27, 2010, 08:55:44 PM
So why, again, does killing Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroying the Silver Medal make me scum, Shkannon?
Worded this badly. Meant to be more like

"So why, again, would I kill Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroy the Silver Medal if I was scum, Shkannon?"

Since doing so would me I removed the townie everyone thought was scum, as well as my other person I was chasing, plus destroying the item that would pretty much autowin LyLo for me. Something even the derpiest scum should be smart enough to not do.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 27, 2010, 09:12:02 PM
If I was scum, that means I had a one-shot kill I didn't use until the night of LyLo. I then proceeded to claim the kill and make up a ridiculous reason why I hadn't used it earlier. And I used said one-shot kill to get rid of the person everyone else thought was certainly scum and would probably lynch in LyLo.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... you could just be lying. That's much more likely of an option, just saying.

Quote from: Lying Scum
If I was scum, why the FUCK would I do something so INCREDIBLY retarded. Seriously. I'd be beating myself in the face if that happened. I'd have just thrown away a very easy win. So why, again, does killing Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroying the Silver Medal make me scum, Shkannon?
You're assuming that you have to be responsible for BOTH the Evangeline AND the Stone Mason NKs, which is patently false. While it's possible that you were scum with a 1-shot NK that you used in the most retarded manner imagineable, it's far more likely that you're just, erm, lying scum.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 27, 2010, 09:20:12 PM
Then please, tell me how both Evangeline and Stone Mason died. If I'm lying and have no one-shot kill, and Razeluxe is saying his ability did a Cop on her, then it'd have to be either you or Stone Mason who killed one, and implies Stone Mason decided not to use his kill till just now if it's him. If it's you, well, then you can go ahead and explain.

Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 27, 2010, 11:20:10 PM
Going to be gone for the rest of the day, so I'll chime in now while I can.

You're right, Sailor Moon, that's a derp moment for me. I accidentally mixed up some stuff in my head. I hope you'll understand, given that a lot was said yesterday.

As for other stuff, that's between you two right now, but I will say that Sailor Moon is telling the truth about killing Evangeline. That much is absolutely certain. Also, mindgames aren't better than insta-winning the game. However, given the level of meta I'm seeing here, everything lines up perfectly for ShKanon to have seen that Sailor Moon would be passing the medal to either Evangeline or Stone Mason, and that Evangeline was looking bad. As such, the medal would probably have gone to Evangeline, and she kills Stone Mason to get rid of who she thinks is the towniest player at the time. Then, there's a good chance that Evangeline gets killed right away because of starting at L-1. Then, when they both end up dead, she pulls off a gambit to make Sailor Moon look bad for... agh, brain fart. I lost where I was going. But I'll say that if I had to vote, right here and now, it'd be ShKanon.

Need to go now, bye.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 29, 2010, 02:11:49 AM
Poking Shkanon for inactivity. Again.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 29, 2010, 02:33:38 AM
Ugh. First off, I am going to be very annoyed if I lose the game due to other people failing at basic predicate logic, so, therefore, a bit of a lesson in first-order logic and implications. First...

Quote from: Razeluxe Meitzen
As for other stuff, that's between you two right now, but I will say that Sailor Moon is telling the truth about killing Evangeline. That much is absolutely certain. Also, mindgames aren't better than insta-winning the game. However, given the level of meta I'm seeing here, everything lines up perfectly for ShKanon to have seen that Sailor Moon would be passing the medal to either Evangeline or Stone Mason, and that Evangeline was looking bad. As such, the medal would probably have gone to Evangeline, and she kills Stone Mason to get rid of who she thinks is the towniest player at the time. Then, there's a good chance that Evangeline gets killed right away because of starting at L-1. Then, when they both end up dead, she pulls off a gambit to make Sailor Moon look bad for... agh, brain fart. I lost where I was going. But I'll say that if I had to vote, right here and now, it'd be ShKanon.
First off, no, it's *not* between the two of us, as I caught Sailor Moon in a lie and she has since then managed to not explain it away in a plausible manner. Secondly...

Remember when a player named Alice would rant on about the failings of town here, and one of the points was that Conspiracy Theories Are Bad, Yo; Don't Use Them? Well, yeah, you're using one of them. In fact, you're doing the exact same thing you did at the end of D3 where you seem to have everything figured out but are instead posting what amounts to little more than complete nonsense. First off: Mason as the towniest player? How in the heck? Scummiest perhaps, but certainly not the towniest player. Secondly, assuming that Evangeline made it to the beginning of this day alive, and had the Silver Medal placed on her, she'd start out at L-2, because we'd be in 4-player LYLO. Assuming that Sailor Moon is town combined with her current logic makes absolutely no sense, because this would necessitate her to kill someone and fail to realise that placing the Silver Medal on someone else with a scum nightkill going through would cause town to insta-lose upon daybreak (more-or-less) if she had guessed wrong. Now, assuming that she is lying scum it makes perfect sense! She offs Evangeline, and tries to push Mason closer to a lynch the next day. Mason winds up dead, but there's 2 NKs. Claim some harmless role with details that can't really be verified (for instance, it could very well be that Evangeline is Nobu - absolutely nothing in-game confirms this to us at the moment), and if you don't mess it up, you pretty much win, despite the person you placed the Silver Medal on having died.

Secondly, a scum gambit doesn't make any sense if scum could already easily win without the gambit: the point of a gambit is that it is a heavy-risk, heavy-reward action undertaken where the reward outweighs the risk taken, or the reward is needed to save and/or secure your position in the game, which is also currently so precarious that the risk undertaken winds up being next-to-minimal anyway. If scum can already win, they are not going to attempt to throw the game only to win in a more Rube-Goldbergian fashion. No, just... no. That just doesn't happen, simply because there are too many avenues for a gambit to go wrong in - which is why gambits are only used in specific circumstances, not just "whenever one feels like using a gambit for no good reason"

Thirdly, your scenario requires me to have a fairly good level of ESP so as to predict where the silver medal is going to land. Which makes it even more absurd, really. tl;dr step back, reread the thread, and think about things for a bit before posting something like that again, please.

Quote from: Lying Scum
Then please, tell me how both Evangeline and Stone Mason died. If I'm lying and have no one-shot kill, and Razeluxe is saying his ability did a Cop on her, then it'd have to be either you or Stone Mason who killed one, and implies Stone Mason decided not to use his kill till just now if it's him. If it's you, well, then you can go ahead and explain.
Anyway, onto Sailor Moon.  Simple, Evangeline died because you nightkilled her. As the last remaining member of the scumteam.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Mason? That was us. We have a one-shot vig, but we lose untargetability and notification of who targeted us the same night that we use it. Overall, there was no reason for us to really use it at all, but when StuffMan was lynched yesterday in pseudo-LYLO, what I had assumed is that we were facing 2 scum, and the reason why it wasn't completely LYLO was due to vig shots. Thus, a shot in the dark, so to speak. Now, why Stone Mason? We had suspected Evangeline all day yesterday, but how LYLO played out strongly suggested her not being scum. Moreover, a lot of her scumminess rested on her interactions and awkwardness with StuffMan, who flipped town. She still looked awful, but enough of her posts could be explained away as merely bad play, instead of scummy play, which made us consider looking elsewhere. Razeluxe to us looked strongly town, and as we were working under the assumption of separate people sending in the NK and the RB (incidentally, this, as well as the 15-player setup, were some of the more major points in favour of there being 2 scum instead of 1), it was a strong point in favour of him being town. That left you and Mr.Mason. You I had cleared up to now mostly on meta (just goes to show you that I should always follow my own advice in that indiscriminate use of meta is always bad), with a large supplement from what looked like an initially quite good voting record (which instead turned into a 30 Bus Pileup to the point where I'm actually getting flashbacks to WTC LYLO#1, rofl), and Mason had been low-content, low-volume and iffy posting/voting all game, thus us targeting him.

The reason for us not taking the Silver Medal into account was that we assumed that us not doing anything => game over, scum win, combined with the fact that we didn't think that anyone'd be dumb enough to use the Silver Medal in LYLO anyway. Apparently we were wrong in both assumptions, but it caught you nicely in a lie, which ultimately works just as well for town.

In fact, I'm so certain of you being scum right now that I'm going to vote you. Right now. Might as well put my money where my mouth is, after all.
##Vote: Sailor Moon
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 29, 2010, 01:47:47 PM
Quote
Anyway, onto Sailor Moon.  Simple, Evangeline died because you nightkilled her. As the last remaining member of the scumteam.
If I was scum, I'd much rather use a one-shot Doctor on her then kill her. Everyone was looking ready to turbolynch her when LyLo started. There is no way in hell I'd kill her if I was scum, because it just seems retarded.

Quote
We have a one-shot vig, but we lose untargetability and notification of who targeted us the same night that we use it
That's a pretty cool power mang. No, really, I mean that. Err, I'll go back to actually playing mafier now...

Quote
In fact, I'm so certain of you being scum right now that I'm going to vote you. Right now.
Mmkay then.

Analyzation aside, this now makes it pretty much impossible for a lynch on Razeluxe to happen whether I wanted to or not, and things fall into Not Me Instead Of Me Territory, so there's really no reason for me to not go ahead and ##Vote:Shkannon now.

It's up to Razeluxe to decide who he thinks is scum. I'll give you a little food for thought, though.

If I'm scum, then I NK'd on LyLo the person everyone felt was scummiest, which makes no sense. If I'm town, then as Shkannon said, I failed to realize that either A.It was possible for me to destroy the Silver Medal, or B.That it would decide the game outcome completely off of my decision.

I guess either way I'm a derp, but the situation with me being scum, well, that's something that IMO would be a LOT easier to realize that I shouldn't be doing.

If Shkannon is scum, she NK'd Mason, thought everyone would vote Evangeline. Then Evangeline dies out of nowhere and she goes "osht" and jumps on the townie with the shakier foundation and who conveniently claimed the NK.

If she's town, well, she NK'd Mason because she thought he was scum and other people didn't seem to be seeing it. Then she goes to town with my claiming having the power to NK, which, well, if she's town, is a rather strong argument against me.

Oh, I forgot to address this.
Quote from: Shkannon
I caught Sailor Moon in a lie and she has since then managed to not explain it away in a plausible manner
I have.

I NK'd Evangeline. Scum killed Stone Mason. You have claimed killing Stone Mason. You are scum. Yay! Stone Mason is a much more logical kill for scum then Evangeline is, wouldn't you agree?

Or Razeluxe is scum and the kill overlapped with someone (Or one of us is plain outright lying about having a kill at all), but the one thing we both seem to agree on right now is that Razeluxe is town, so!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 29, 2010, 03:45:27 PM
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (1): Shannon
Shannon (1): Sailor Moon

3 votes in play means 2 will lynch. There is no time limit.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 29, 2010, 06:48:33 PM
Honestly, at this point, you're both obviously telling the truth about your victims last night. The only real thing to look at is who is lying about it being part of their role. And, honestly, Sailor Moon pulled so much freaking derp last night if she were scum. I am going to vote ShKanon, because if Sailor Moon really is scum, then congrats. You managed to completely derp it up in the most fantastic way, and this really isn't much of a victory. I will be honest here. I am voting ShKanon because Scum!Moon was just blindingly idiotic last night, whereas Town!Moon was just a little derp-y.

Actually, before I do so, I want to entertain 2 things.

1) Sailor Moon, did you or did you not Role Block McClane N3.

2) What if you're both telling the truth about having one-shot vigs. That would explain how there could have been no today. If you had both hit separate people, and the scum!kill had hit a third person, there would be 1 Town vs. 1 scum. Scum auto-win. Thoughts on this, please?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: DiEnd on August 29, 2010, 07:29:04 PM
1) Sailor Moon, did you or did you not Role Block McClane N3.

2) What if you're both telling the truth about having one-shot vigs. That would explain how there could have been no today. If you had both hit separate people, and the scum!kill had hit a third person, there would be 1 Town vs. 1 scum. Scum auto-win. Thoughts on this, please?
1) Nope. Either there was a misunderstanding (Which I doubt), or the roleblocker is someone who died between now and then. Or something REALLY weird happened. I'd guess it's the second, as in, guilty party already died by now.

2)That's what I was thinking; also, if I plopped the Silver Medal on a townie when there's 3 people, then it'd basically be the same as yesterday being LyLo. Or if Shkannon broke the role restriction again and had that modvote.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 29, 2010, 07:54:30 PM
Shannon here.  It seems like my problems with my brain are coming back, so please bear with me.  I feel like I can't wait for Kanon, so that's why I'm posting this now instead of waiting.

Quote from: Razeluxe
You managed to completely derp it up in the most fantastic way, and this really isn't much of a victory.
Please think about what you are saying.  You are basically saying that Sailor Moon is too scummy to be scum.  Currently she is saying that she would have put the silver medal on to someone that is now confirmed town as a 1-shot vig.  That would have been an insta loss for town!  Not to mention that her role says that she can't use her shot whenever she wants?  This doesn't even include the aspects of her play that we pointed out in the previous post.  I could have used mine whenever I wanted to, but doing so would mean that I lost my untargetablilty AND my ability to self-watch.  I could live without the former, but I thought the latter was useful enough to hang on to.

Quote from: Sailor Moon
If I was scum, I'd much rather use a one-shot Doctor on her then kill her
This statement is silly.  Before last night there were five people alive.  As scum, you would not be aware of our shot, therefore, in your mind, if you did not shoot there would be five people alive.  Lynch + NK = 3 people alive the next day.  In other words, if you DIDN'T shoot, you would have to survive for another day.  In other words, yes you would much rather shoot her as scum than protect her.

And if we're going to use "probable NK targets" as reasoning for why people can't be scum, then please explain why I didn't shoot Raze last night if I was scum.  By my role he is 100% confirmed town because he cannot be the roleblocker.  He targeted me N3 and I was NOT targeted with a kill (just to confirm that you are notified if you are targeted with a kill @mod: if someone is targeted with a kill and they live to see the next day will they be notified (via doctor protect, untargetablility etc.)?).  So, even if scum could NK and use their night abilities there is no possible way for him to be the roleblocker.  Why would I leave confirmed town alive if I were scum?

Quote from: Raze
2) What if you're both telling the truth about having one-shot vigs. That would explain how there could have been no today. If you had both hit separate people, and the scum!kill had hit a third person, there would be 1 Town vs. 1 scum. Scum auto-win. Thoughts on this, please?
I will discuss this with Kanon when he gets on because it is certainly interesting.  I'm not quite sure how it would work as of now, so do you mind if I wait on answering this until Kanon gets online?  I'm not exactly confident in my ability to think critically right now.

Raze, I currently do not understand how you can dismiss Sailor Moon as "too scummy to be scum" right now.  Can you please type up a case on me for me to respond to?  If you have time can you also look through Sailor Moon's play so far and explain why you think she is town?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 29, 2010, 07:58:33 PM
If someone is attacked at night and they survive, they will be told an attempt was made on their life, though obviously they will not be told why the attack failed.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 30, 2010, 03:27:52 AM
I should probably also point out that there is still time to submit guesses for players. Given the number of people that slowly dribbled in player guesses, I can't really check you all to tell you how you did, so I suggest submitting a full list of all your guesses some time soon.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 30, 2010, 11:58:40 PM
If someone could post, that would be great.

Fake edit: Someone still alive in the game, you nimrods.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 03:22:24 AM
All three players have been prodded for inactivity. Anyone that does not post within the next 24 hours will be modkilled.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 31, 2010, 05:12:06 AM
I... honestly don't have much more to say. I'm still waiting for the rest of the ShKannon reply. Which I was expecting a long time ago. Or at least something else from Sailor Moon in the meanwhile. This silence? Definitely unexpected.

And until I have full and complete thoughts from the both of you, I honestly don't have more to say. I will, however, vote one of you (probably at random) by this time tomorrow if I haven't gotten the full and honest truth from both of you. ("full" being directed at ShKannon, "honest" being directed at... well... both of you, though more Sailor Moon)

Actually, screw it. Let's not make the mod wait. By noon tomorrow, PST. If I haven't heard back from both of you (including opinions on what the other has just said) by then, I vote. And not even I know where my vote will land, so...
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 31, 2010, 05:13:50 AM
EBWOP: I know that I'm only in the position I am now because scum thinks I'll be the easiest to mislead. As such, my patience is thin, and thus my actions.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 31, 2010, 05:48:25 AM
Okay, so Kanon and I talked about your question and we have come to the conclusion that you are completely missing the point.  I'm going to try to explain this as best I can.

Okay, so last night there were two kills. I know one of them came from a pro-town vig, so I have a hard time believing that there would be two pro-town vigs, but I will try to not use my personal role information as a reason in any of this.

Right, so the two people that died were Stone Mason and Evangeline. They both flipped town, therefore we know that they did not fire off the scum NK.

Then there's you, Raze. Our role information had you confirmed as town since the start of the day.  If that's not enough you have not hammered either of us. Therefore you are town and could not have fired the scum NK. Moreover, this completely confirms you as town right now.

So, the only people that could have fired the scum NK are Sailor Moon and myself. In other words, no matter how you look at it, it is not possible for there to be two pro-town vigs. One of the kills last night *MUST* have been the scum NK.

Anyway, now, let's take a look at Sailor Moon's roleclaim at the start of today:

-She claimed a JOAT of some kind.
-She claimed that she could ONLY use the vig if she was alive in LYLO or was somehow killed.
-The last in-game day was also LYLO, even though it was pseudo-LYLO, we were still operating under LYLO rules/a LYLO time limit. Therefore, why didn't she use it N4?

Now, the second one is also interesting: how does she know when to shoot? Does the mod tell her when? Moreover, the third point is also interesting: why not shoot the first time around, and shoot now? None of it makes any sense, really. Anyway:

Let's go over why I shot Stone Mason again:
- I thought the only reason it was potential LYLO instead of outright LYLO was because of my vig shot. In other words, I thought that if I DIDN'T shot the game would be over and the town would lose. Moreover, what information we had up to this point about night actions agreed with the existence of two remaining scum, and the numbers (15 players at start of game) also agreed with two remaining scum.
- So, we spent the night thinking about pairs, and this is what we came up with:
- Razeluxe and Evangeline could not be scum alone or with each other because they both targeted me N3 and I was not hit by a kill (IE, they can't be the roleblocker), but they could be scum with Stone Mason or Sailor Moon.
- Stone Mason could be scum with just about everyone really. If he were scum, then he probably was the roleblocker.
- Based on Sailor Moon's earlier actions I thought it was unlikely that she was scum. However, if she was scum she was probably scum with either Stone Mason or Evangeline because it would mean that she was a hardcore busser.

So, I thought that if there was two or more scum left that Stone Mason pretty much had to be one of them. The only team that didn't feel totally weird that didn't involve Stone Mason was Evangeline and Sailor Moon. I also calculated that on the off chance there was one scum instead of two alive that, even if I did hit a townie, it would still be a three person LYLO and the game wouldn't end immediately. So, I not only saw no reason to NOT take the shot, I thought I HAD to take the shot or the game would be over. Compare the above to this:

Quote from: Lying Scum
And lastly, I have a one-shot kill, but I can only use it when I die, or if I'm alive on the night of LyLo. Night 5 I was told I could use my shot, and I targeted Evangeline. Everyone else wanted to kill her; if she was scum, then yay I got rid of her, if she wasn't scum, then thank goodness I just stopped Town from lynching her on LyLo and losing the game.

Okay: first off - she just went with what everyone else thought, despite the fact that fucking up would be bad? We spent hours trying to figure out who to shoot, and SM decides just to off Evangeline because lol she might be scummy even though the previous day she didn't really notice too much about Evangeline at all? Oh, and let's not forget the glorious silver medal nonsense, because this is the key point of why she is lying:

We know that one of us two MUST be scum. Assuming that we are scum, and Sailor Moon is town, then she had to have shot someone, had large enough cojones to place the silver medal on someone else even after knowing that if she missed, this would be 3P LYLO with someone at one vote, and claim this is all pro-townie.

Now, assuming Sailor Moon is scum, this argument falls apart, because we aren't in control of an extra vote, and furthermore made the fairly reasonable assumption that the silver medal was not going to be used today, because it is LYLO and Doublevotes in LYLO r teh bad.

I do not think I can explain my argument any more clearly than that. Please do not dismiss Sailor Moon as "too stupid to be scum." Intelligence is a null tell and should not factor into whether or not you think someone is scum or town - roles are randomly distributed, and thus it is not any more likely for an idiot to be scum than it is for someone competent/intelligent to be scum. Please think about our claims again, please look at my cases again and really think about who is town and who is scum. Thank you.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Kiva-la on August 31, 2010, 06:05:39 AM
/me nods.
 
Pure logic. That's what I was looking for. It factors in everything said and done, discarding what is genuinely useless. It is also not trying to get me to think of her as scum, but rather just tears apart her case.

In all honesty, I was never going to vote against you, ShKannon. I was just hoping to bring out desperation, and see where that would leave you both. There wasn't enough on you to actually condemn you without using conspiracy theories of some kind, and thus I was hoping that Sailor Moon would flub up. She was the only one with a case on her (and I maintain that her ability to call scum vs. town most of the game is disturbing) and I was hoping that either you would do this, or she would try and do this and fail because she can't. She would have had to rely on some sort of tactic to convince me. Worst-case scenario was you both get to pleading, in which case I vote Sailor Moon anyway because I sincerely believe she's lying about not having the roleblocking. While her role sounded plausible, it also sounded very... lame for a role madness game. And I mean "lame" like a "lame limb."

Anyway, ##Vote: Sailor Moon because I'm certain of it now.

And I will be eating SO MUCH CROW if I'm wrong here, but let's hope I'm not.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Decade on August 31, 2010, 06:10:45 AM
Addendum:

Quote from: Lying Scum
If I was scum, I'd much rather use a one-shot Doctor on her then kill her. Everyone was looking ready to turbolynch her when LyLo started. There is no way in hell I'd kill her if I was scum, because it just seems retarded.
This is just ridiculous.
A) Nobody is going to turbolynch anyone at the start of freaking LYLO unless they are: A) Scum or B) Want to lose the game. There has been more than one game on this site where the obvious pick for scum on the previous day was the wrong pick on the current day, and in at least one instance (WTC) this was the case at LYLO (and in that game, also the case on the day before LYLO, too).
B) Ignoring that delicious little detail, NK WIFOM is absolutely silly, especially because, y'know, it's such WIFOM-prone information that it's virtually always completely useless. Therefore, there's usually no reason for scum to NK person A over person B assuming all are equally likely to be a threat both in terms of competence as town, and in terms of their role. Therefore, your statement here is both useless and utterly moronic and should do absolutely nothing to dissuade anyone from thinking that you're scum.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 06:12:37 AM
Stop posting, the game is over!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 06:29:57 AM
So that's it, then, is it? You want me to get rid of the faux Lunarian as well?
 
No need for that, really. Note how quiet she was recently? That's because she hasn't been here, because I shipped her off to Eientei. I think Eirin will be very 'pleased' to hear a Terranian has been using her ancestral home as moral justification for beating people up.
 
Why did I send her off pre-emptively? Because I knew she was the last dirty slut follower, of course.
 
Sailor Moon, Scum German Suplex, was lynched by majority!
 
What? Of course I knew it was her. I knew who they all were, the whole time. I know these things. I'm a goddess. Kanako thinks she can fool me, but I can smell her coming a mile away. So why did I do all this? For shits and giggles, really.
 
But I expect you all want to see a winner anyway, right? That would be pretty mean of me to promise a winnable game and then not deliver on who the actual winner is. The victor deserves their rightful place in the limelight, after all.
 
Yes, that's right. The victor. Because only one person really won this game.
 
Razeluxe Meitzen, Town Wonder Twin, has lost on parity!
 
And that would be me.
 
Shannon, Third Party Moriyavatar, has won the game!
Suwako Moriya, Mod Awesome Goddess, has won via proxy!
Cirno Train, Mod Stupid Ice Fairy, was eaten by a giant toad for being a slouch!
Carthrat, Town Lurker Hitler, beat his head on the nearest wall until his brain oozed out!
 
Game over! Town lose! Scum lose! I win!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
Post by: Pesco on August 31, 2010, 06:31:24 AM

Carthrat, Town Lurker Hitler, beat his head on the nearest wall until his brain oozed out!
 

:V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Cirno on August 31, 2010, 06:35:32 AM
Ah, you folk finally came through with some nice entertainment for me in the end. Mostly at the expense of Razeluxe Meitzen. Oh but what a delicious expense it was!

And it turns out that getting eaten by that giant toad was just the thing I needed to get that freaking train off my back. It's hard to help out with these sorts of games when you have to deal with impossible tests, your own video game, and commuter trains at the same time, you know?
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 06:36:25 AM
It should be noted that role and player reveals will come after I've woken up (and they'll come with some extra surprises!). I really should have gone to bed about an hour ago, but with the game ending I don't mind it so much.

EDIT: I will pre-emptively say, however, that Razeluxe was far and away the biggest victim this game, with his role constantly kicking him in the teeth and then being thrown into a 3-way he couldn't win. My sympathies for having to deal with all that.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Cirno on August 31, 2010, 06:42:04 AM
Quote from: Shkannon
A) Nobody is going to turbolynch anyone at the start of freaking LYLO unless they are: A) Scum or B) Want to lose the game.

Oh, if only that was the case. But recent history here reveals a third reason: sheer stupidity (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5787.0.html). Also known as: MotK town.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 06:46:20 AM
Oh yeah, a couple of fun mysteries for the night owl players to mull over.

- Neither John McClane's roleblocker nor Evangeline's killer were alive on Day 6! Have fun thinking that one out.
- Some players were obvious, others were not. I will say that I can practically guarantee no one guessed Miyako Miyamura, either to themselves or to me, and that only McClane would have been able to guess Razeluxe (which he did immediately).
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 31, 2010, 08:00:40 AM
scum quicktopic Six pages of Serela talking to himself (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/u9cniYh35yggv)

I probably could have saved myself from a lot of trouble and one of the accusations against me by choosing a character whose posts I'd be able to thoroughly proofread without bashing my head into a wall. Or just by not being a lazy idiot and trying harder. Hopefully learning from this. Though had I survived to D2 I wouldn't have been around anyway, so... :x

That said I actually really enjoyed seeing everybody's write-ins even if I didn't recognize like half of them. Anonymafia with write-ins is interesting and I like it.

Polly, did you ever realize I lied to you? (You totally deserved that response either way for being nosey, but I'm curious.)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Shizumarashi Mayuzumi on August 31, 2010, 08:05:20 AM
That said I actually really enjoyed seeing everybody's write-ins even if I didn't recognize like half of them. Anonymafia with write-ins is interesting and I like it.

Speaking of, whoever were John McClane and Roddy MacStew, I think I love you both. (Also I love UK but I think she knew that already. =P)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Mr_Bob on August 31, 2010, 08:28:49 AM
Hoo boy. Thank you EVERY one for making my first mafia game very enjoyable. I did slightly better than I thought, and never gave into the urge to claim new player status. I felt out matched almost the entire game, and learned a lot. Thank you.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Pesco on August 31, 2010, 08:30:30 AM
Who the hell are all you people ??? The only names I could guess are the ones that derp-posted and the really obvious ones.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on August 31, 2010, 10:20:05 AM
Sailor Moon, Scum German Suplex, was lynched by majority!
FUCK YES TOWN WI-
 
Quote
Shannon, Third Party Moriyavatar, has won the game!
...;_;

Aye, Roddy MacStew here. Of course, that's just a facade, because I'm really Sunny Milk (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg410769.html#msg410769) in an ingenious disguise. (Read - got permission from Wacko to put up a vote count given the Fairy Wars release, can't look at my earlier posts the same way now because Sunny pretending to be an angry Scottish man is too entertaining.)

Didn't honestly expect to be the N1 death, but considering my role was a one-shot global roleblock I figured it was better to get hit early than be made to explain why a Townie had a role like that later on. It worked, I guess, so I say that I scored a 100% scumhunting record in this game. (Ignore the fact that I was probably going to follow Steven D2 because JESUS Zakeri is good at acting like scum.)

First two scum were eh and deserved the quick lynchings they got. Sailor Serela for definite scum MVP, because there were plenty of people I'd have lynched ahead of her (Evangeline/Miyako/Razeluxe). Shannon, ironically, probably won thanks to RL circumstances - she was on the verge of being the D2 lynch until her hospital admission saved her, and by then she just narrowly avoided the lynch more or less every day. Besides that I admittedly stopped reading intently around Day 4 when it became clear there were no resurrection powers.

Also, Town being dead lost on Lylo was painful. :<
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serela on August 31, 2010, 10:44:25 AM
Darn, I never got to hammer in LyLo and post my... whatever it's called.

Quote
I am Sailor Germany, champion of nazis, princess of the communist kingdom, and your worst nightmare! On behalf of Mother Russia, I will kill all heretics and triumph over jewish scum; and you people are the worst kind of heretics! Lead blindly by the whims of goddesses!

In the name of mein fuhrer (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=342), I shall send you all to a concentration camp!

w/e

have to go to school RIGHT NOW so can't say more

except that I had no second kill and I nk'd Stone Mason D6 ;P

I really did know Evangeline was Nobu though. Only time I got to use that power, aww.

EDIT:Missed my bus. lul. That thing I typed up was made by copy-pasying Sailor Moon heroine monologue and editing it into THE GLORY OF SOVIET RUSSIA by the way, so it's HALF-WAY AUTHENTIC :V

Quote
Ignore the fact that I was probably going to follow Steven D2 because JESUS Zakeri is good at acting like scum
That was Polaris, actually :3c

So, since Evangeline's killer wasn't alive on D6, either it was a delay kill for some reason or Stone Mason had a deathvig sorta like I claimed :V I guess?

Also, this is the first time I've been killed by any way other then "The game ended bb" ;_;
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Affinity on August 31, 2010, 12:31:07 PM
I signed up for this game deliberately so that I could throw you guys off.  Ohohoho.  Other than that, I found that I had a little time on my hands due to the nature of my job, so i decided to join in the fun.  It was lucky I got killed on N3 though, because soon after that it would have been rather tough for me to keep up.  Also rather thankful for the nightalk; without it, timings would have been somewhat tough for me (and I decided that it would only be WIFOM to scum anyway if they were to take advantage

As for the game, the lack of meta was quite refreshing, I suppose.  Didn't really play my best, but I suppose I nabbed Shannon and Sailor, which was alright (though I completely missed Sandor)  I also thought Roddy was Carthrat or something like that; and that Evangeline was Roukanken (which only goes to show how much the latter has improved, I think),   Lots of new faces I don't recognize too.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 12:44:39 PM
Well, now that Miyako has outed herself, I suppose the time has come for this.

And now, the moment everyone's been waiting for, role and player reveals!

First, Team Town.

Stuff Man, played by Pesco:

Role - Pete Seeger
Role Description - For every hammer you drop on a lynch train, you get an extra Anonymous vote to be used however you like. This vote charge will disappear after it is used. You may not use Anonymous votes during LYLO.

Shoe, played by UncertainKitten:

Role - Machi Man
Role Description - After death, you may choose (at night) to come back for one more day, equipped with a vote (and thus counting toward the vote count). You may only post votes and unvotes, however, and you may not do multiple votes and unvotes in a single post. In addition, you must wait for at least three other posts before you may post again. (They do not need to be from three different players.) You may not make your return after a LYLO mislynch.

Satoshi Houjou, (not) played by Demonbman:

Role - Rebound Striker
Role Description - If you are targeted with a night kill, the attack will bounce off of you and hit another random player instead.

Evangeline A.K. McDowell, played by Nobu:

Role - Metaknight
Role Description - Each night, you may target one other player and learn who the person is behind the anonymous mask.

Stone Mason, played by Mr. Bob:

Role - Psych Whore
Role Description - For every day where every other living player in the game says your name, you gain one Night Kill shot. Players quoting you count, as do players that use RP nicknames for you. You may collect as many shots as you wish, but you may only use one per night.
RESTRICTION - If you suggest the nature of your power's activation in any way to the rest of the game, you power will be removed and you will receive a mod vote for the day. If you are unsure about something, let me see it first and I will tell you.

Miyako Miyamura, played by Affinity (!):

Role - Streetlife Serenader
Role Description - You are allowed to discuss the game at night. It is not particularly recommended you do this Night 0, but if you really want to, you may.
Posting Restriction - Once per day, you must intelligibly incorporate song lyrics into one of your posts. Failure to do so will result in a mod vote the following day. (Be sure to link me when you do it, just to be safe.)

Saki Marimi, played by Bardiche:

Role - Universal Backup
Role Description - As a Universal Backup, you...are actually not sure what you can do! But you're pretty sure you'll be ready when you're needed. Hang in there!

Role notes: The Universal Backup starts the game as vanilla and gains an exact copy of the powers of the Day 1 lynchee. This ended up being the best (luckiest?) role town had, as you'll see later.

Roddy MacStew, played by Roukanken:

Role - Chess Game
Role Description - Once per game, you may activate a Mass Roleblock at night. This will stop all active abilities except the scum NK.

Steven Stone, played by Polaris:

Role - Oh Shi- Moment
Role Description - If you are the fourth vote on a lynch train, you gain the lynchee's power. You will retain this until the next time you are the fourth vote on a lynch train, at which point you will gain a new power.

John McClane, played by Excal:

Role - Sansei
Role Description - You are a chargeable Doctor with 0 shots. For every three end-of-day votes you accrue (cumulative across the game), you gain an additional shot. You may not use more than one shot per night.

Role notes: Yes, the protective power this game was given to a massive trap/asshole role. I'm actually glad Excal drew it because I figured he'd have the best shot of making something of it. A shame his game went the way it did, but sometimes that just happens.

And Razeluxe Meitzen, played by Magetastic:

Role: Wonder Twin
Role Description: You are wielding a Wand of Wonder! Once a night, you may target another player with it. What will it do? Will it do something good or bad? Will it do anything at all? Who knows? Certainly not you! That's the fun of a Wand of Wonder!

Role notes: The wand had 16 possible outcomes (which were slightly altered at the last minute out of kindness because both Sane and Insane Cop were in there): Sane Cop, Role Cop, Doctor, Tracker, Watcher, Vigilante Kill, Jailer, Roleblocker, Doublevote Granter, Mod Vote Granter, Mobile Vote Object, Voteless, Framer, Constrictor (player may post no more than 100 consecutive words), Silencer, and Nothing. All possibilities were weighted equally. I left myself leeway in my mod notes to weight Nothing higher if I wanted to, but I never actually did. I actually rolled for this role twice on N0, as the first roll would have vig'd Satoshi, which, while amusing from a flavor standpoint, would have been lame because Night 0 kills are lame in general. Then things worked out that way anyway, so. This role really ended up repeatedly kicking Mage in the teeth, as you'll see later.

Now, Team Scum.

Gamzee Makara, played by huh what:

Role - Swiss Army Knife
Role Description - You have one shot each of rolecop, roleblocker, tracker and watcher. Once you have used all four of these shots, they will all refill. You may not use a shot if you are going on the NK.

Mod Notes: Universal Backup grabbing this role was the worst possible D1 outcome for scum team, because it gave town a useful investigative role it lacked otherwise.

Sandor Clegane, played by Serpentarius:

Role - Crazy Taxi
Role Description - You have both the powers of a Bus Driver and a Hijacker at your disposal! Each night, you may either choose two players and have all night actions targeting those two players switched to the other player, or you may choose one player and redirect their night action to another target of your choice.
In addition, you are allowed to speak about the game at night. It is not particularly recommended you do this Night 0, but it's up to you.
Restriction: Every post you make must have at least one sentence IN ALL CAPS THAT ENDS IN AN EXCLAMATION POINT! This includes both day and night posts, and it includes EBWOPs, so be careful. If you fail to do this, you will be given a mod vote for the rest of the day (or for the entire upcoming day, if the restriction is broken at night).

And Sailor Moon, played by NeoSerela:

Role - German Suplex
Role Description - Each night, you may target one other player and learn the real person behind the anonymous mask. You may not use this ability if you are going on the kill.
In addition, you have single shots of both Hitman and Janitor. A Hitman shot will pierce protective guards. A Janitor shot will obscure the dead player's alignment and role name to town, but scum will still learn it.

Role notes: A second player cop, designed to give the player a fakeclaim more than anything else, as I figured scum team would want to hide the presence of a redirectional role unless they had good reason to use it.

And finally, the stars of the show: Shannon, played by Kitten4u, and Kanon, played by bofh:

Alignment - Third Party
Role - Moriyavatar
Role Description - This needs its own bulleted list.
 
* You are allowed to speak about the game at night.
* You are Bulletproof, though you don't know how long it will last.
* You are Night Action Immune outside of NK attempts. Abilities that target you will fizzle.
* You are a constant Self-Watcher. You will see anyone that targets you during the night.
* You have a single Night Vig shot. You may use it in any night interval you like, but you will lose both BP and Night Action Immunity for the night if you do.
* You have a one-shot Anonymous vote. You may deploy it anywhere you choose at any time you choose, though it is disabled for LYLO. Once used, it cannot be reused (i.e. you don't get one every day).
* You have a posting restriction: At least half of your posts each day (rounded up) must revere me in some capacity. This will be calculated at the end of each day, so you may fall behind and catch up and still save yourself. If you fail to meet this, you will get a mod vote the next day.
* You win when no more than one player other than you is still alive.

Role notes: The BP was one-shot and got used up on N2.

This role was my pride and joy of this game. I only entertained the idea of using a wacky third party role due to Role Madness (Bastard Mod), but I knew that, in order to make an enjoyable lone gunman, I needed to create a role that could both survive to endgame without getting offed by dumb luck and could get caught and lynched by means other than dumb luck. The result is what you see above. It has the firepower to go deep in the game, and it has drawbacks that can get it caught despite not being tied to scum, such as night kills stopping after a certain number of scum lynches or having a night action performed on them while they're busy NKing someone else (or Town simply derping the game up and losing on parity).

Ranmilia raised several eyebrows at this role and Cirno asked me if I had it in mind for someone I hated, but given how far it got without too many lucky/unlucky environmental factors surrounding it, I would like to think it did its job.

The more observant among you will notice that three separate roles has night-talk abilities and role restrictions with similar penalties - and all three were different alignments. That was very intentional, and I was very disappointed in Sandor and Shannon for never using that aspect of their role. (Not that they could have safely after Night 1 anyway, when Miyako was the only one to speak up.)

Ah, but there is one more role PM to display! Say thanks to my (somewhat flaky) co-mod, Cirno, played by Kefit:

Alignment: Mod
Role: Stupid Ice Fairy
Role Description: You are a stupid ice fairy. There is little more to be said. You win if you entertain me enough throughout the game that I do not feed you to an amphibian in the end-of-game flavor.

Sadly, Cirno lost as well.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on August 31, 2010, 12:52:54 PM
Steven Stone, played by Polaris
GDIT

I had you down as Obv!Zak.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serela on August 31, 2010, 12:55:27 PM
This game was amazing, by the way.

Role Madness is so fucking fun.

...I think I might powerup my set up a little more in that department again. After the 4 MASSIVE NERF SESSIONS, it's starting to look boring in comparison to this :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 12:59:55 PM
Night actions! The formatting on these is inconsistent, but whatever.

Night 0

K4U/Shannon/Moriyavatar: Watch self (Result: Nothing)

Nobu/Evangeline/Metaknight: Check Stuff Man (Result: Pesco)
Mage/Razeluxe/Wonder Twin: Target Satoshi (Wand of Wonder effect: Watcher) (Result: Nothing)

NeoSerela/SMoon/German Suplex: Check Evangeline (Result: Nobu)
huh what/Gamzee/SAK: Rolecop Stuff Man (Result: Pete Seeger)
Serp/Sandor/Crazy Taxi: Swap Gamzee and Shoe (Result: Nothing happens)

Night 1

Shannon: Watch Self (Result: Nothing)

Sandor Clegane: Bus Drive Sandor Clegane and Steven Stone
Sailor Moon: NK Roddy MacStew

Evangeline's Metaknight Reveal: Steven Stone -> Bus Driven! -> Sandor Clegane (Result: Serpentarius)
Razeluxe Meitzen's Wand of Wonder: Mobile Vote Object -> Miyako Miyamura (Success)
Saki Marimi's Universal SAK: Track Evangeline (Result: Targeted Steven Stone)

Night 2

Shannon: Watch Self (Result: Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason) (Attacked!)

Sandor Clegane: Bus drive Saki and Sailor Moon
Sailor Moon: Hitman Kill Shoe (Success)

Evangeline's Metaknight Reveal: Shannon (Result: Fizzle!)
Razeluxe Meitzen's Wand of Wonder: Mod Vote Granter -> Sailor Moon - > Bus driven! -> Saki (Success)
Saki Marimi's Universal SAK: Rolecop Sandor (Result: Crazy Taxi)
Miyako Miyamura's Silver Medal: Pass to Shannon (Result: Fizzle!)
Stone Mason: Vig kill Shannon (Result: BP Block)

Night 3

Shannon: Watch self (Result: Razeluxe Meitzen, Evangeline A.K. McDowell)

Sailor Moon: Kill Miyako (Success!)

Saki Marimi: Roleblock John McClane (Success!)
Razeluxe Meitzen: Target Shannon (Wand of Wonder: Nothing) (Result: Fizzle!)
Shoe: Do not revive
Evangeline A.K. McDowell: Unmask Shannon (Result: Fizzle!)
Miyako Miyamura: Pass Medal to Evangeline (Success!)

Watching everyone try to puzzle out McClane's roleblocker through the rest of the game was pretty amusing, and in the end, it was town's lead hunter.

Night 4

Shannon: Watch self (Result: Nothing)

Sailor Moon: Kill Saki Marimi

Shoe: Reanimate
Evangeline: Investigate Stone Mason (Result: Mr. Bob), Pass medal to Stuff Man
Saki: Watch self (Result: Sailor Moon) (Killed!)
Razeluxe: Cast at Stone Mason (Result: Jailer -> Success)

Night 5

Shannon: Watch Self (Nothing), Kill Stone Mason (Success!)

Sailor Moon: Kill Stone Mason (Success!), Medalize Evangeline (Success!)

Razeluxe: Target Evangeline (Action: Sane Cop -> Result: Town)
Mason:
Kill Evangeline A.K. McDowell (Success!) (Killed!)
Evangeline: Unmask Razeluxe Meitzen (Result: Magetastic) (Killed!)
 
---
 
Since it happened twice in-game, I did it to Kefit and it's not completely unknown anyway, I will complete the Anonymafia tradition by demasking myself, with my own mod thoughts QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/gVKapbBJYXN). There is admittedly a lot of Shkannon love going on in that topic, but I assure everyone that this did not get in the way of maintaining a fair and balanced game: I rode their asses all game to post with modkill threats, just as I would have anyone else that was that lurky, and bofh ran several things by me in LYLO that referenced me and I did not let him post them. They were given no help beyond the info they asked for, which went the same for everyone else (such as Nobu and Mr. Bob).
 
I've since settled on Bard as my Town MVP, though I guess if the people would rather see someone else they can "vote" for that person. Sympathies to Mage, again, for his terrible luck with his role. He was a last minute fill-in to boot, which made me feel twice as bad about how much the RNG hated him.
 
Credit to Serela for several ballsy plays throughout the game, you earned your spot in that 3-way.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on August 31, 2010, 01:05:03 PM
Saki Marimi: Roleblock John McClane (Success!)
I died.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serela on August 31, 2010, 01:11:17 PM
Credit to Serela for several ballsy plays throughout the game, you earned your spot in that 3-way.
<3

Quote
Been watching the scum QT, and I'm kinda disapointed that Serela hasn't tried to really think through *why* this is potential LYLO with 7 votes in play when he's the only scum left, but I guess it's because he's still relatively new so I can't really hold it against him. Still, this should be leading him to hunt for third parties, and the number of people that have claimed inability to target Shkannon should be setting off all sorts of sirens.
I was thinking "well it might be a third-party but there could be ALL kinds of shizzaz going on with that so I won't even bother". Since it was role madness, Shkannon's immunity didn't surprise me a lot. I guess I still need more practice!

I was looking a little too schizophrenic with my alignment calling ;_; I shouldn't get them ALL right! I went a little overboard.

Also, GOD DAMN SAKI COPIED HUHWHAT'S POWERS. That explains things. That was lucky.

Still loling over claiming Evangeline's death and then the killer wasn't alive so everyone thought I was telling the truth :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Kitten4u on August 31, 2010, 01:24:14 PM
*passes out*

I had a lot of fun being that role (seriously, how could I NOT love being Suwako's avatar? <3), but holy shit, playing Mafia on braindeadness is extremely painful.  Thanks for being awesome bofh. :P

I suppose I can answer this now.  What was I fishing for on Saki?  Nothing!  I misread my night results and thought she targeted me N2!  We never really did find a good way to explain that away, so we just never talked about it. :V   This is why you shouldn't play Mafia with health problems kids!  That was the same reason I never used the "talk at night" ability.  I wasn't feeling up to it N1 and I was afraid it would look bad if I used it on any other night. :/

And rofl, I died a little on the inside when Saki ended up being the roleblocker since that was my whole reason for clearing Razeluxe D6.   

Anyway, I did have a lot of fun despite only half being able to play.  I am surprised no one called me out for lurking, especially considering I'm me. :P  So Suwako, did we break the record for the most prods in a single MotK game? :V To be fair to me, the reason for my lurking had less to do with me having an anti-town role and more with me having brain problems (seriously, my D2 WoT is just painful to look at.  I apologize for that).

Quote from: [s]Lying Scum[/s] NeoSerela
Still loling over claiming Evangeline's death and then the killer wasn't alive so everyone thought I was telling the truth
I am too actually. :P

GG
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Ouja on August 31, 2010, 02:22:06 PM
I was raging so hard when Razeluxe said he wanted to vote Sailor Moon because I knew she was the last remaining scum. So much rage, so incredibly hard.

So yeah, I'm happy my bluff with Sandor worked out okay, and as you can see I never actually knew anyone else's role, hence my secrecy. I knew that if scum knew my role, they'd definitely want to end me immediately and I liked stalling for time. Shame I brought about the downfall of the one person who could've saved me, but hey, that's how life goes.

I was extremely displeased with all the lurking going on, but it permitted LAL strategies and that was fun. I think this was one of the funnest games I've yet played, and there wasn't that much rage.

I actually never figured out Shoe was Uncertain. I thought they were just pretending to be her for jokes, due to being a cat! Still, Shoe was actually on the ball this time, so yeah. Pretty funny. I almost wish she'd also predicted Sailor Moon!

Actually, I had Sailor Moon settled as Town-ish on the night I watched myself: I'd predicted a scum kill on me or her, so I submitted an action to self-watch, or if not possible then watch Sailor Moon. I guess my death was inevitable but at least I knew my killer!

Kind of going hrnnggg at losing the game to a third-party, but I think as town we can safely say we gone done well. If Shkannon was just a town vig, then the game'd probably gone the same way and all in all, I am quite satisfied with everything presently. Victory to me is eliminating all scum, and we succeeded!

Next game I'd like to be less of a high inquisitor though. :V I worried over my targets and my lynching objects so much every time. I actually worried about lynching Gamzee and thought throwing my chips in with Shoe wasn't the greatest idea, but thankfully it worked out and permitted me to get rid of Sandor eventually.

I intentionally held back I was the roleblocker because it struck me as amusing how people were trying to figure it out. Also, I wanted scum to not know I had multiple powers to my role in the way Gamzee did, but my survival was not to be.

If I was in Raze's position, though? Definitely would've voted Sailor Moon. Shkannon looked good the entire game; I think third-parties have it easy in Mafier anyway, because as long as they scumhunt they'll likely be on the safe side! Oh well. As I said, I'm satisfied.

Heh, I planned to be succinct, but imagine me being succinct! (lol won't happen)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Ouja on August 31, 2010, 02:23:54 PM
Lynching McClane was my major derp moment, by the way. The moment the lynch became unstoppable I realised I was HERP IDORT because I had already ruled out McClane as scum by virtue of my roleblock. Whoops.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Ouja on August 31, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
Quote
SerpPerson was signed in when posted     70
08-13-2010 09:46 PM ET (US)
   
Argh. Good game Saki. Odds are they'll realize by tomorrow that I was most likely switching scum and town tomorrow, and then lynch you. Going to make a token effort to survive here, but it's probably a waste of effort.
NeoSerela     69
08-13-2010 09:45 PM ET (US)
   
...this will probably serve as a very good reason for everyone to lynch me tomorrow once someone realizes "Hey Sandor probably targeted Moon to protect from investigation! Couldn't be Saki since she's the one who got Sandor killed and all."

So hopefully they won't realize that tomorrow. Er, or for the next several days...

Oh god I'm doomed. And things were looking really nice for me before this... ;_;
NeoSerela     68
08-13-2010 09:22 PM ET (US)
   
wait what

Did Saki get targets other then the ones you said, or is she playing it up? Hmm. It's possible other crazy roles are interfering.
SerpPerson was signed in when posted     67
08-13-2010 09:22 PM ET (US)
   
Fuck, violated my post restriction in the heat of things. Oh well, if I end this day with any votes at all on me, it'll probably mean that Saki's decided to get me lynched anyway and I'm screwed regardless.
NeoSerela     66
08-13-2010 09:07 PM ET (US)
   
Oh yeah that makes sense. Yay role madness.
SerpPerson was signed in when posted     65
08-13-2010 08:53 PM ET (US)
   
Roleclaiming compulsory bus driver.
NeoSerela     64
08-13-2010 08:20 PM ET (US)
   
Oh boy Saki knows who you targetted?

Given you have TWO targets, that might be hard to explain yourself out of :\ Are there any non-wtf roles other then Bus Drive with two targets, anyway? Off the top of my head I think of none.

I CONSIDER THIS A PERSONAL VICTORY.



Quote
huhwhatPerson was signed in when posted     28
08-06-2010 04:36 PM ET (US)
   
Edited by author 08-06-2010 04:41 PM
Saki: "I explained my reason. FPMH, best reason ever. "

Saki is Bardiche attempting to mock the concept of fpmh. I'm calling it, based on stuff he said during dwarf fortress postgame.

This, too! (Forgot, I can edit posts now! ... I should probably let go of this account...)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serela on August 31, 2010, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: BardicheSaki
-quote of Huhwhat identifying Bardiche in ED1-
This, too! (Forgot, I can edit posts now! ... I should probably let go of this account...)
Ahaha, I totally forgot about that!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 02:34:36 PM
But yeah, this was my most fun game yet.

Apologies to Pesco, belatedly, for ridiculing FPMH, but I really thought it was a great idea at the time. I had no intention to become Town High Inquisitor and lead the Scum Hunt but things happened. I actually intended to derp it up hard and generally lollygag around until my role started doing things... which was on N1. I actually thought I'd become a Cop if the Cop died or a Doc if the Doc did... but not complaining.

Words words words. God, I need to learn to shut up.



Also why am I an idiot princess. What is this malarkey.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on August 31, 2010, 02:37:29 PM
Pesco's birthday request was to give the victors + top players colored names. bofh already has Godmother, so IP went out to you, Serela and K4U. There's a whole Idiot ______ Hierarchy system for the main social subforum here, but considering you don't ever post there, you can just treat it as a badge of honor.
 
EDIT: Also it looked like Mage was bluffing the entire time about considering voting Shannon over Sailor Moon, so no rage in his direction necessary. It's not like the guy needs any more stress from this game anyway.
 
EDIT 2: I also imagine most of town will take your stance on losing to the third-party, so.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Pesco on August 31, 2010, 02:44:13 PM
But yeah, this was my most fun game yet.

Apologies to Pesco, belatedly, for ridiculing FPMH, but I really thought it was a great idea at the time. I had no intention to become Town High Inquisitor and lead the Scum Hunt but things happened. I actually intended to derp it up hard and generally lollygag around until my role started doing things... which was on N1. I actually thought I'd become a Cop if the Cop died or a Doc if the Doc did... but not complaining.

Words words words. God, I need to learn to shut up.



Also why am I an idiot princess. What is this malarkey.

Don't worry about it, I know how much people want to lynch me for it whenever I use it :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Chaore on August 31, 2010, 02:50:16 PM
Suwako's account avatar takes a whole new meaning now that the game is over. An amusing if slightly ill fitting one.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 03:37:52 PM
Pesco's birthday request was to give the victors + top players colored names. bofh already has Godmother, so IP went out to you, Serela and K4U. There's a whole Idiot ______ Hierarchy system for the main social subforum here, but considering you don't ever post there, you can just treat it as a badge of honor.
 
EDIT: Also it looked like Mage was bluffing the entire time about considering voting Shannon over Sailor Moon, so no rage in his direction necessary. It's not like the guy needs any more stress from this game anyway.
 
EDIT 2: I also imagine most of town will take your stance on losing to the third-party, so.

I'll wear my Idiot crown as a badge of honour then. :V :V :ohdear:
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 31, 2010, 04:00:06 PM
Hey! Hey Listen? Remember this? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401778.html#msg401778)

Yeah.

OK, I know, that doesn't count. To be fair, I did catch her on D5, if for the wrong reasons (My logic boiled down to the fact she was having a love affair with Shkannon for no apparent reason. Her posts literally made no sense as town, while with Razel and StuffMan, they did)

Oh God, even better
Quote from: Serela in the QT
"Now that I have elegantly solved the first scum for you, just wake me up when she's lynched and flipped"

She sounds awfully confident for what would presumably be a jokevote. Maybe a cop or a bulletproof trying to lure or both? Hmm. Or just rvs shenanigans that I'm overreacting to. I'll keep an eye on her to see how things develop.

If she can make herself look suspicious today, she'd be a good target for the Janitor one-shot of mine, considering that I highly doubt there will be only one death tonight. Possibly killing a cop and having town wonder if it was scum or not would be nice.

Ah, good, so I WAS tossed around for N1 kill. I was telling Kilga that the N1 kill would be either me or Roddy. And actually leaned on Roddy because I still seemed to be scattered enough to be misguided at the least.

Anyway, magical QT of thoughts: here (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/bAxUiB3iWn2Z)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Nobu on August 31, 2010, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: Kilga
Kilgamayan    6

08-23-2010 01:59 PM ET (US)
I may have to change my mind on assessing still-alive players for value, Nobu's actually doing a good job of taking over the lead townie role that Bard left. I had written him off as a possibility after his first three days but he's coming along very well, especially for a new guy.

:blush:

My first game of Mafia was a lot of fun, so I'll have to give a big thanks to all involved. I've been wanting to try out Mafia for a while now, and saw the MSR anon setup as a good opportunity to do so without new player and identity-based preconceptions. Of course I derped it up a bit D1 and D2, but it was a learning experience I guess. :V

Tbh, I was secretly hoping to get lynched/killed D3 and on because I was so bogged down with life and was feeling discouraged about my play, but I didn't want the game to degenerate into lurk-city in Bardiche's absence and took his advice to heart about not giving up. I really had a hard time synthesizing all the details to make good cases on people later on, and was suffering due to a lack of notes and probably also my lack of experience. Eech.

 I had a feeling earlier that Neo knew who I was before he outed it in game, when he made this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6903.msg418700.html#msg418700) post over in CPMC. Did anyone else guess who I was? :3
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 31, 2010, 06:10:00 PM
This, too! (Forgot, I can edit posts now! ... I should probably let go of this account...)
You and Pesco were the easiest players to guess, though.  (I somehow guessed that Sutff Man was Pesco before D1 even began and Serela can vouch for me on this. )

That said I did find your posts about FPMH amusing.

Props to Rou for his character choice, btw. Also props to Suwako for naming Nobu's role "Metaknight", I got a chuckle out of that.


Edit: Oh wow Bard's role. ;_;
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Nobu on August 31, 2010, 06:13:58 PM
I already had a strong feeling that Sandor Clegane was Serp since he had mentioned A Song of Ice and Fire to me a few times before, so I was facepalming when it got busdriven. Though, finding out that Stone Mason was Mr. Bob was a surprise.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on August 31, 2010, 07:15:23 PM
Hey! Hey Listen? Remember this? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401778.html#msg401778)

Yeah.
Welp. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401652.html#msg401652) :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Stuffman on August 31, 2010, 07:17:41 PM
I considered posting in the thread at one point to see if anyone would catch that it was the real me.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Shizumarashi Mayuzumi on August 31, 2010, 07:25:50 PM
Rou, I seriously heard every single one of your Roddy posts in Roddy's voice. I love you even more for playing as him while actually being Scottish. Which probably makes me very silly, but eh whatever. :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Nobu on August 31, 2010, 07:54:53 PM
The exchange (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg409141.html#msg409141) that led to Sandor's lynching was my favorite part of the whole game. And I suddenly want to watch Higashi no Eden now too. Is Saki as cool as you make her out to be?  :ohdear:

Welp. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6785.msg401652.html#msg401652) :V

Technically you were completely wrong, because she was by definition the least traitorous of us all, what with being the Moriyavatar and all. :x
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 07:58:38 PM
Sorry to disappoint, but I don't roleplay. When I play Mafia, I'm hunting scum, not living out my fantasies where I'm the little girl pining for her long sought-after prince. So no, Saki Marimi is not cool in any way.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 31, 2010, 08:00:39 PM
Oh! Wow, I actually Saki Marimi in a mafia game once. My faction was Inquisitor, which was like SK/Cult.

No, this isn't as broken as it sounds. I kill first, then recruit. So I'm basically an SK with benefits if my kill fails. But yeah, it was fun.

I totally didn't recognize the name til now.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 08:02:41 PM
Is it ironic I jokingly refer to myself as High Inquisitor there for hounding the entiriety of town during the entire course of the game for their low activity?

SK with Cult is nothing. I once had a CopVigilante role. And I wasn't told I was a vigilante.

I should've known something was up when my targets all turned up dead. :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 31, 2010, 08:04:33 PM
Well Copvig is a bad role. SK cult is somewhat more powerful than SK since you get a bonus when your kill fails, making your action pretty much impossible to screw up.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Nobu on August 31, 2010, 08:05:18 PM
Damn. My image of Saki has been shattered forever. ;_;
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 31, 2010, 08:07:49 PM
...

So, I just noticed now apparently OS/Browser were ON on the dummy accounts. Meaning if someone were a jackass they could cross reference OS and Browser to determine who was who.

Please tell me this wasn't on during the actual game. PLEASE.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 08:09:22 PM
Well Copvig is a bad role. SK cult is somewhat more powerful than SK since you get a bonus when your kill fails, making your action pretty much impossible to screw up.

Well, we did have three doctors and two bulletproofs in a 12-man game.

Damn. My image of Saki has been shattered forever. ;_;

I'm sorry. But hey, you can rest easy knowing I'm that cool. 8D
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Nobu on August 31, 2010, 08:13:12 PM
...

So, I just noticed now apparently OS/Browser were ON on the dummy accounts. Meaning if someone were a jackass they could cross reference OS and Browser to determine who was who.

Uh, I believe the No OS/Browser mod only works clientside, so you only block yourself from seeing them. But if you look from an account that has them enabled, then you can see them.

I did have a scare early on when I went into a profile to look at posts while signed onto this account, and thought I had found out someone was K4U accidentally by seeing their email address. Until I realized all of the dummy accounts are registered under the same person. :V

I'm sorry. But hey, you can rest easy knowing I'm that cool. 8D

Works for me. :*
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 31, 2010, 08:14:22 PM
That seems horribly exploitable. There HAS to be a way to hide OS/Browser from everyone :S.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Kitten4u on August 31, 2010, 08:16:40 PM
Quote from: Nobu
Technically you were completely wrong, because she was by definition the least traitorous of us all, what with being the Moriyavatar and all. :x
Indeed!  I was more town than the rest of you!

Speaking of which, I forgot to ask this.  Suwako, why did you want me to Kill Em All anyway?

Quote from: Roukanken
Shannon, ironically, probably won thanks to RL circumstances
Hey, after Sandor flipped scum the attacks on me completely dissolved until Evangeline thought I was lying about my post restriction (and even then that attack never got much traction). >:(  I'll buy that RL curcumstances let me live through D2, but if I didn't have them I don't think I would have been in that situation in the first place as I still think the case on me was 90% terrible.  Seriously, anyone that thought they would get town cred from bussing their buddy that late is a complete moron, and majority lynches > non-majority lynches regardless of whether or not they're required.  My vote would have been completely useless on Sandor, so I put it somewhere useful in the face of the deadline.

I think this statement is unfair.

Quote from: Suwako
so IP went out to you, Serela and K4U
<3  Thanks Pesco.  I always get sad when my blue name goes away. :P

Quote from: Nobu
I did have a scare early on when I went into a profile to look at posts while signed onto this account, and thought I had found out someone was K4U accidentally by seeing their email address. Until I realized all of the dummy accounts are registered under the same person.
Yeah, I made all the dummy accounts and I was far too lazy to come up with interesting names for all of them.  So, all the e-mails are kitten4u#@name.com. :V

Also, Nobu, Mr Bob, you both played pretty well.  You should totally play again. <3  I'm still surprised that a scum buss driver was not only willing to switch his buddies with townies, but did so every night he was alive. :S  This still confuses me greatly.

Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
>__>
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 31, 2010, 08:17:34 PM
...

So, I just noticed now apparently OS/Browser were ON on the dummy accounts. Meaning if someone were a jackass they could cross reference OS and Browser to determine who was who.

Please tell me this wasn't on during the actual game. PLEASE.
I accidentally figured out who Demonbman was because of this but he never posted so idc.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Shizumarashi Mayuzumi on August 31, 2010, 08:22:46 PM
You all make me want to play again and then I remember how I kind of imploded the one time I did try to play. :V (I still swear to god it wasn't because I was scum under pressure at the time, though I do think that accelerated my meltdown. That was a different game though so I shouldn't derail things. =P)
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 08:23:34 PM
The most freaky scum gambit I've ever seen was a scum godfather going on the kill every night.

And he killed scum. Every night.

He lead town wedging out the scummy people, but never scum. During LYLO he claimed Vigilante, always hitting the scum who went out for the kill.

Of course, he was lynched because of how ridiculous that claim was.



Bus driver bus driving his own scum buddies makes some sense? It assumes his scum buddies must be bussed with someone who acts less scummy than they do. Someone scanning Sailor Moon would get my results, and might mistake me for scum? Maybe they never knew people were appropriately informed of their role target.




Juri, hour of reckoning. Sign up to the next game!
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Kitten4u on August 31, 2010, 08:27:00 PM
Quote from: Bardiche
Bus driver bus driving his own scum buddies makes some sense? It assumes his scum buddies must be bussed with someone who acts less scummy than they do. Someone scanning Sailor Moon would get my results, and might mistake me for scum? Maybe they never knew people were appropriately informed of their role target.
I'd buy that if the people weren't TOLD that they were bus driven and who their new target was.  That really seems like something you would ask about before doing something like that. :S
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 08:37:24 PM
I'd buy that if the people weren't TOLD that they were bus driven and who their new target was.  That really seems like something you would ask about before doing something like that. :S

Or you just assume. I assumed rolecop was just rolename. I got the entire works.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Kitten4u on August 31, 2010, 08:41:20 PM
Or you just assume. I assumed rolecop was just rolename. I got the entire works.
I guess.  Maybe I'm just overly anal/paranoid. :V
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Bardiche on August 31, 2010, 08:42:36 PM
I guess.  Maybe I'm just overly anal/paranoid. :V

I was going to respond to this in a way I probably shouldn't. :ohdear:
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serp on August 31, 2010, 09:23:04 PM
Whew, what a game.  Checking in for just a moment before I have to go, but yes, Bard's gambit was hella stylish, and I can't believe Neo survived as long as he did.  Just skimming now, but I saw Bard's role and laughed out loud.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serela on August 31, 2010, 09:50:35 PM
and I can't believe Neo survived as long as he did.
do you mean that as in "why didn't they lynch you" or "oh serela sucked less then I thought he would"  :derp:
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Polaris on August 31, 2010, 10:43:58 PM
< oh man derpiest player ever :3c
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Serela on August 31, 2010, 10:45:10 PM
< oh man derpiest player ever :3c
Actually, see:Zent in MotK Mafioso Mafia

oh and wrathie too from what I've heard
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: UncertainJakutten on August 31, 2010, 10:46:45 PM
Oh God wrathie. God No.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Chaore on August 31, 2010, 11:05:14 PM
Actually, see:Zent in MotK Mafioso Mafia

This.

Zent is half the reason I've been absent from the last <integer> number of games. The other half is I suck.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on August 31, 2010, 11:05:40 PM
This.

Zent is half the reason I've been absent from the last <integer> number of games. The other half is I suck.
But... Zent hasn't played at all since that game? :x
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Halloween Alice on September 01, 2010, 03:55:56 AM
Urg, congrats to Town.  Bard in particular.  That was a good game you ran, and I'm surprised scum let you live as long as they did.  Sorry I wasn't able to help you guys much, but apparently my instincts were way off on this one.

Also, I'd like to give props to the Mod.  Never before have I been given a role where self-voting was actually a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Mr_Bob on September 01, 2010, 08:14:16 AM
Hmmm. I'm not sure I want to sign-up again so soon. But I would definately volunteer to replace if need be.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: Affinity on September 01, 2010, 02:15:18 PM
@K4U: Well, I did that before during the Western Touhou Community game, so I thought it was quite alright to regard your D1 lynch as a nulltell.  Besides, most of your scumhunting seemed rather pretend anyway, at least on D2; though bofh did play wonderfully.  I would say Shkannon survived more on coincidence than real life conditions; there always happened to be some kind of distraction which pulled bandwagons away from you.

And uhh as for worst player... wrathie tried his best, but gah.  Nuclear Fusion was in my mind less fun to play with than him, however.  It seems that you tried your best Steven, so that's really quite enough, I suppose.

For a role madness game, everything was awesome.  Very nice.
Title: Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 01, 2010, 10:42:30 PM
Quote
Ignore the fact that I was probably going to follow Steven D2 because JESUS Zakeri is good at acting like scum

I don't even have an internet connection. Am I really this scummy all the time?
Too be fair on Rou, this is in fact quite literally the first mafia game on site I've had no part in.

I seriously doubt I'd have been able to follow this game even if I had ample amounts of time to do so.