Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[Shadoweh]

Why were you waiting for my response? I've been purposely obtuse. You would have no reason to wait for any lying thing I said unless you didn't believe I was scum.

[Bardiche]

So you did not use your vig shot, Shadoweh? Why did you claim you were going to shoot Pesco, then?

[Bardiche]

Regarding PX, I briefly voted him as a pressure to explain his vote movement onto Serela, decrying Serela useless-- huh, maybe I should read PX anew. Did he ever compound on his reasons for voting Serela, other than a hypocritical move of "do something with your vote" after he had been busy doing nothing with his own?

[Dr Rawr]

I didnt mention you because you said you were going to reply once you woke up or somehing. Pesco wanted lurkers to post. So i was like EH may as well try to get a read on someone else.

Also why the sudden change on pesco? Why didnt you just kill off trickysticks, just to show that you were town vig?

##unvote
##vote:shadoweh

I said i would vote you if you didnt kill anyone the night. start of day 2 seems your way of scum hunting hasnt changed either. Youre right, i dont think someone who is town should go about things in an obtuse way. Also as bardiche said why the sudden change on pesco? Also was i not good enough of shot? You think im scum and tried to form a rawr wagon a couple times. But like i said, i was just waiting to see your response :V

[Shadoweh]

And yet you forgot to do this until I reminded you, and thought PX was the only thing you had. :V I don't believe you. I called you out on being inconsistant, and your response is to try and jump back on your train to nowhere. Oh, and question why I didn't shoot someone who was likely to be freely killed by the moderator, thus wasting my vigilante shot. Here's a hint, if your case is based on things that I've told you I've done badly, you're doing it wrong.

Bardiche: I didn't use my vig. I did say later in the day I wasn't as sure of shooting Pesco as I was earlier. I had a chance to calm down and when he's not knocking at me personally, his posts make sense to me. I share his attitude that Dormio is a bad lynch.

PX was voting for Dormio.

[Shadoweh]

Just to answer your question in general. Proving myself isn't as important to me as shooting right. It would be an insult to my pride to hit town.

[Bardiche]

I'll need some time to roll around in my head whether I consider you scummy or not for it; kneejerk says it's scummy, since claiming vig derailed the pending movement against you. Pesco's accusation that you were voteparking by voting a newbie and a lurker seemed solid enough at the time, so I'm wary now that you've not shown your ability to be real.

Why do you vote a newbie again, now? I find the reason "why aren't you voting me?" to be rather sloppy. Why do people have such an obstinate desire to vote people for not voting them?

Since you say "pure wagon analysis" led you to voting Conq, why did you not shoot him, and why do you drop voting him after making a promise to write more about it afterwards?

I know what happened to scum's shot tonight, so I want to be sure you weren't scum's killer this night and are now attempting to weasel out by claiming a refusal to shoot.

[Shadoweh]

It's not because he's voting me. I voted him first, Bardiche. I'm voting him because the argument that he's just being a newbie doesn't jive with how he forgot his legitimate concern with me, a concern that was actually made true, until after I reminded him of it.

I didn't shoot Conqueror for much the same reason you aren't immediately sheeping to my case, I'm not entirely convinced and want to see more from him to influence my decision. I said I was waiting for his response. You can see he hasn't spoken yet. He's not the only one I have my eye on. Alot of people look really town this game and it's throwing me off. :|

I'm not sure what to say to that last part. Even if I was scum's killer, that would have made only one shot in the first place and I'd still be trying to weasel out of it.

[PX]

Sorry, but I'm busy and will post when I'm at home and not on my phone. I will say that BT is confirmed town

[Shadoweh]

..I read that wrong. I find people not following their own thought processes to be scummy. What would he have been waiting for me to say? There's no words that would change the reasoning behind his vote like he just threw down now. I could claim to be roleblocked, to not have shot, or to be a fakeclaiming survivor mason, none of it would have made a shot appear.

Today is going to be one of those days isn't it.

[Dr Rawr]

Im not buying any of this, you declare me and pesco scum for a good part of day1. You decide yourself that you will shoot pesco, then ask for people opinions on who to shoot, but then decide im setting a trap for you? What. You then decide not to shoot off anyone, even though its the only thing keeping you from being voted fro.lm. day2 start you do the exact same thing as day1 except this time you have a different excuse. Honestly you still havent explained why you think pesco is town all of a sudden, a clear head doesnt mean anything to me. You then paint me for scum when i didnt mention you in my post, werent you the one complaining about me only focusing you?

Also yet again why didnt you just kill me at night, you thought i was scum, you kept asking for rawr wagon. What stopped you?

[Shadoweh]

Also yet again why didnt you just kill me at night, you thought i was scum, you kept asking for rawr wagon. What stopped you?

You would make an excellent vig shot, but I would feel terrible if you were actually town and I removed you so early on my judgement alone.

I haven't said anything about you setting a trap for me. You said you would pursue me further if there was no kill. For no discernable reason, you vote PX and say that's all you've got. You forgot about your own suspicion. In my opinion it's because you don't actually have any and you're scum trying hard to fake townie flailing.

I think Pesco is town because he's a jerk. More importantly I think he's town because he's reading the game and pursuing people instead of hanging back. His suspicions mirror mine, be they right or wrong. Townies think alike.

You then decide not to shoot off anyone, even though its the only thing keeping you from being voted fro.

I'm fairly sure actively pursuing my targets would keep me from being voted too, looking at the allegations. Do explain why my not shooting makes me scum if shooting would have made everyone happy.

day2 start you do the exact same thing as day1 except this time you have a different excuse.

This is Conqueror's point, and one I disagree with. I've been playing today much differently. Everything you have ever said has been regurgitated from posts around you. People who have no opinions of their own are scum.

[Dr Rawr]

Because you shooting someone would have proved you were town vig? I mean trickysticks was out, thats why i mentioned him.

Your post #319 says other wise about the trap.

For the 3rd time you avoid the question, why didnt you just kill me?

[Bardiche]

Rawr are you saying you are scum and deserve to be shot.

[Shadoweh]

I just answered you. Want me to quote it again? I'll take it out of the brackets so you can see it clearer.
Quote from: Shadoweh on January 11, 2012, 11:40:03 pm
You would make an excellent vig shot, but I would feel terrible if you were actually town and I removed you so early on my judgement alone.

..This actually leads me to an unrelated question. Huh what, if you thought Rawr was transparantly town why did you want me to kill him anyways?

Once again you're suggesting it's scummy that I didn't kill the guy possibly being modkilled that I thought was town. I probably could have gotten away with killing him as an SK too since people keep looking at him. (Helepolis read bullshit faster)

[Dr Rawr]

No, im saying all of yesterday she was asking for rawr wagon and saying im scum. When day ends and im pretty sure some of us were expecting shadoweh to kill some one. But nope, nothing she gives excuses on people who she thought could be scum, but decided not to include me. Im now wondering why she still thinks im total scum but had the chance to kill me but didnt.

[Dr Rawr]

So let me get this you thought i was town at some point during the night?

[Shadoweh]

I was willing to entertain the idea.

This debate has been wonderfully informative. Got any other suspects yet, or a follow-up on why PX is a bad person? I want you to actually go through the posts of the person you have been accusing, quote them personally, and tell us why you think they're scum/suspicious from that. The foundation of my case against you is that you aren't actually reading anyone. So, go read. Make a response that doesn't look fake in my eyes.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

..This actually leads me to an unrelated question. Huh what, if you thought Rawr was transparantly town why did you want me to kill him anyways?

I usually reconsider what I believe the intent of my town reads to be following a scum flip. Rawr would have looked pretty terrible if Serela turned up scum.

[Dr Rawr]

@bardiche again

Im trying to understand why she didnt kill anyone. She claimed town vig when 5 votes on her, this caused everyone to get off shadoweh wagon. When time comes to prove youre town vig no kill, it was shadowehs only way of proving town vig. That time has passed i see no kill, thus i think shadoweh is lieing about being town vig. If shadoweh was worried about killing someone town, shadoweh could have killed trickysticks, who was gonna be mod killed anyways, so why not just prove town vig on someone thats gonna die anyways.

[Dr Rawr]

Its very hard to read and post at the same time, give me some slack  :X

[Dr Rawr]

On a phone*

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Still tired as hell. Need to go out later today tooWent out earlier today too. Well, whatever.

Dormio, what happened to this? Your Huh what case is paranoia. Do you find anything scummy about him if you ignore the suspicion of daytalk? Naming vig targets after being asked for them isn't something I would hold scummy alone. Do you disagree with his choices?

It may be paranoia, perhaps the assumption feels bigger to me because in the two games that I've been scum (Vanilla, Magical Madness), there was no daytalk. I dunno, for some reason the whole assumption of daytalk really seems off to me. Like, really really off.
Unfortunately, it was rather difficult for me to read through the topic at all yesterday, so I'll work on a proper reread of HW today!

In the meanwhile, this interesting ShadowehxRawr stuff.
Call me crazy, but I'm not really feeling the whole scum!Rawr vibe.
Some suspicion remains with Shadoweh for the whole failure to shoot thing, but not enough for me to act on for the time being.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh, I had that post open for so long that I forgot to edit out my edit since I haven't actually left home yet. Though I probably will soon.
Anyway, doing that reading thing while I can.

[Affinity]

Regarding Shadoweh's sudden chickening out, I'm not so sure what to think either of claiming vig to save herself D1 and withholding it N1, and I question her reason of 'not wanting to hit town'.  I still think that her conduct from D1 and D2 (which shows a renewed sense of scumhunting based on yesterday) is town so I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not as sure now. 

##Vote: PX

Out of all of PX's shortcomings which huhwhat and pesco have more or less said, I am the least happy with his consistent failure to justify a vote between two choices (such as Shadoweh and Dan, Serela and Dormio), and I would like an explanation on the later case as to how Dormio's accusation of Shadoweh being SK is worse than Serela going for the easy lynches.  Furthermore, the fact that he jumped on every significant wagon other than Shadoweh's through the sole means of parroting what is wrong with that person seems pretty bad and feels like coasting. 

Regarding BT: While I was okay with his D1 conduct (especially regarding justifying his Dormio vote over Serela's), it's pretty appalling to learn on reread that BT's useful content amounts to nothing but 'Dormio is scum because he accused Shadoweh as an SK and dissing my first case on him' and nothing else.  Almost everything else he has said is of personal effect (e.g I don't see why PX is the right lynch, I don't think huhwhat is scum), opinions which do not affect the game at all other than the placement of his vote, and his D2 position of sitting on his Dormio vote without bothering to ask any questions or even consider his huhwhat case reeks of passive scumhunting and waiting for things to happen (he says Conq is 'hugely null', which he apparently doesn't dislike enough to question him about his opinions).  Not liking his attitude right now, and this is something to keep note of if he continues to make a nest of his Dormio vote.

As for Dormio, all my objections against him yesterday still stand, though there seem to be more interesting targets today.  Am alright with his huhwhat case if it is a precursor of things to come, though I don't agree with it at all and how it hinges on the 'daytalk' thing.

[Bardiche]

I assume we always hold against people things we think are scummy. Implying she should've shot you is like saying that would've been the Town thing to do, and the Town thing to do is shooting scum. Ipso facto, I read it as you arguing you're scum and Shadoweh should've killed you.

Well, I'm not seriously going to adopt that stance, either way. It's silly.

If Shadoweh isn't scum, who would you say is scum and why?

Huh What, since you're around, can you explain why you think that people managing to get Serela lynched instead of Dormio indicates Dormio is Town? The first post you made, regarding scumbuddies would try to save Dormio and such.

Cut by Affinity.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

It's more that I don't think scum!Dormio would have expected to be saved and claimed Vanilla instead of outing a PR. Things weren't looking too hot for him when he claimed, and from my experience scum tends to overestimate the danger they're in (or maybe I'm the only one who consistently does that).

Even without considering the circumstances of his Vanilla claim, though, I don't think he's that scummy. What I said about my thoughts on him at the end of D1 still pretty much sums up my opinion.

[Kitten4u]

Voting:
PX (3): Huh What, Pesco, Affinity
Conq (1): Zakeri
Huh What (1): Dormio
Dormio (2): BT, Bardiche
nurse rawr (1): Shadoweh
Shadoweh (1): nurse rawr

Not Voting: PX, Conq, Helepolis

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline for day 2 is in ~48 hours Watch timer here

[Shadoweh]

@bardiche again
Im trying to understand why she didnt kill anyone. She claimed town vig when 5 votes on her, this caused everyone to get off shadoweh wagon. When time comes to prove youre town vig no kill, it was shadowehs only way of proving town vig. That time has passed i see no kill, thus i think shadoweh is lieing about being town vig. If shadoweh was worried about killing someone town, shadoweh could have killed trickysticks, who was gonna be mod killed anyways, so why not just prove town vig on someone thats gonna die anyways.

A vig is a terrible thing to waste. I only have one of them. I'm not going to throw it out uselessly on a dead man just to make people happy with me, I might as well be scum. What's with your obsession with Tricksysticks anyways, do YOU think he's scum?

[Helepolis]

(Helepolis read bullshit faster)

Suck my Gungnir.

After reading bullshit pages, my main concern is: Where was the Night Kill?

##Vote Huh What

In D1, #95 to #97 sparked my curiosity. So much rapid posting trying to clarify something which nobody understood and still doesn't.  #107 you try something which I don't get. #161 why suddenly express dislikes the Dan wagon back then? You swap vote to Serela not scumhunting. What?? I like how you also lectured him about pushing on Dan for not scum hunting. Nice triangle we got here, because you also didn't scumhunt. Oops!

#163 Why do you question Dan suddenly what he thinks of Serela? Just because you dislike his wagon? Or was it because he was obviously being replaced and he had to post something "Townish" before he was gone.

Something tells me you knew the read on Dan. When the wagon picked up, you express unjustified dislike and sudden hop with a very, very very terrible excuse to Serela. So, why did you vote for ActionDan before in #107? Oh right, for no grounded reason.

##Unvote
##Vote Huh What

Serela was screaming Town all over, except he failed to deliver the msg and kept on blabbering bullshit 1v1 with Dormio suddenly when they were both on L-1.