Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Polaris on June 04, 2014, 08:03:44 PM

Title: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Polaris on June 04, 2014, 08:03:44 PM
A simple game of tic-tac-toe... With a mafia twist! It's Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia!

(http://puu.sh/987aJ/9053476c9b.png)

The fine territory of the Tic-Tac-Toe Gameboard has been long coveted by the two players, Player 1 and Player 2. If either player manages to set up their powerful Three-in-a-Row Formation on the Gameboard, they'll be able to claim the territory as theirs! Player 1, having the advantage, has sent scouts ahead to take charge of the spaces in the territory. But Player 2 has mixed in spies into the group, and plans to take control of the board through trickery and deception! Will Player 1 be able to root out the spies in the group and claim territory as his, or will Player 2 manage to take control of the territory?

Setup:

Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia uses the variable open setup 8Matrix (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=8Matrix).

The setup is randomly generated by selecting a row, column, or diagonal with three cells from the table below and then adding vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons until there are 2 Mafia players and 7 Town players.

Mafia GoonMafia GoonTown Cop
Town JailkeeperTown RoleblockerMafia 1-Shot Strongman
Mafia RolecopTown TrackerTown Doctor


Rules:

1) During the day, players will ##Vote to lynch someone they believe is scum. A lynch will occur when the majority is reached; if there is no majority, then the person with the highest number of votes will be lynched at the end of the day. Players can also choose to vote No Lynch.
2) Day 1 will last 48 hours. Every day afterwards will last 72 hours. No extensions will be allowed.
3) During the night, players will not be able to talk in the thread. Players with night actions can PM their actions to me and the co-mod.
4) Mafia must kill every night. A mafia player can may nightkill and use their night action at the same time.
5) Nights last 24 hours.
6) Players may not contact any other player by any means other than in the game thread or what is provided to them by their role. Dead players may not speak, except for one "Bah!" post following their death.
7) Players may not edit their posts, and may not directly quote mod correspondence.
8) Town will be Player 1 (O). Mafia will be Player 2 (X).
9) Play nice. Being a jerk is prohibited and may have serious consequences.
10) I may edit these rules when necessary, and will notify everyone in the thread if this occurs.
11) Players must post at least once every 24 hours. Players will be prodded if they go over 24 hours without posting. Excessive prods may result in replacement or modkill.

Sample Role PM:

Quote
Welcome, Polaris, to Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia! You are a Vanilla Townie, in charge of space A0.

Abilities:
Your weapon is your vote; you have no night actions.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread when you receive this message.


Co-mod: PX

Still Alive:

1) ActionDan
3) Zakeri
4) Sky Paladin
5) Serela
7) Dormio

Dead:
8) CF7 - executed Day 1, Vanilla Townie
9) Bardiche - killed Night 1, Town Roleblocker
2) Raikaria - blown up Day 2, Vanilla Townie
6) NNR Dr Rawr - assassinated Night 2, Vanilla Townie
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2014, 08:08:52 PM
First
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Raikaria on June 04, 2014, 08:09:53 PM
I confirm my existence.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Raikaria on June 04, 2014, 08:10:19 PM
Damnit Zakeri it's the confirmation phase and you're already cutting me.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 04, 2014, 08:12:46 PM
Yahoooooooooo!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: CF7 on June 04, 2014, 08:23:38 PM
CONFIRMATION FOR CONFIRMATION GOD!!!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2014, 09:38:10 PM
agabbgglgglll
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: ActionDan on June 04, 2014, 10:13:50 PM
Totally Mafia 1-shot strongman confirming
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 05, 2014, 12:00:20 AM
wat
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 05, 2014, 12:02:01 AM
Time to vig bard
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 12:27:37 AM
Time to vig bard
Reason Bard's cases were bad:"YOU DIDN'T MAKE ANY BEFORE YOU DIED"
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 05, 2014, 12:53:28 AM
Confirming. 

Dan wow. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Confirmation Phase
Post by: Polaris on June 05, 2014, 02:54:33 AM
8/9 players have confirmed so let the game begin!

Vote Count:

Not Voting ⑨: ActionDan, Raikaria, Zakeri, Sky Paladin, Serela, NNR, Dormio, CF7, Bardiche
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 48 hours left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 05, 2014, 02:57:13 AM
##Vote: ActionDan for being the 1-shot strongman.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 02:58:30 AM
##Vote ActionDan

I mean he did claim scum, so
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 05, 2014, 03:02:40 AM
##Vote: Dormio

Because I have to get a cw going to save myself, and he's not my scum buddy
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 05, 2014, 03:23:30 AM
##Vote Zakeri
Obviously bussing his buddy for cred.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 05, 2014, 03:45:23 AM
##vote Bardiche for not confirming, obviously lurkscum.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: CF7 on June 05, 2014, 06:17:22 AM
Cosmic Voice told me, that we need to kill all cats.
##Vote Neko
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 05, 2014, 06:36:41 AM
##Vote: Zakeri
Stop cutting me >:/
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 05, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
##Vote: ActionDan

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 05, 2014, 02:49:04 PM
##Vote: Skypal
You would die less often if you didn't make horrible Mafia cases, man.

Also Polaris is winning the Tic Tac Toe an auto-win for our faction or do we still need to find scum?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 05, 2014, 03:32:04 PM
There will come a day when Shrine Maiden will lynch a player, not for the quality of their cases, but for their lack of content or failure to explain their vote; and on that day, the games here will improve.  Until you hold your fellow players accountable for their action or inaction there can be no value in it. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 05, 2014, 04:14:34 PM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Serela, Bardiche L-2
Zakeri (2): Dormio, Raikaria
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
NNR (1): CF7
Dormio (1): ActionDan
Bardiche (1): Sky Paladin
Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 35 hours left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 05, 2014, 06:01:46 PM
Also Polaris is winning the Tic Tac Toe an auto-win for our faction or do we still need to find scum?

If that were the case town's already won.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 06:06:12 PM
Is it time for me to do something stupid so everyone can get mad and then rvs stops?

I'm already trying to get ActionDan lynched though, I can't vote him even harder. (spoiler I'm not a doublevoter)

Although, seriously, I still don't really understand how getting out of rvs actually works. You start with nothing and somehow you get something, even though there's not really anything inbetween either?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 06:13:47 PM
I think there's like, some kind of mass scale suspension of disbelief inbetween rvs and not-rvs, and then you just kind of pretend it didn't happen later when somehow, in some incomprehensible manner, this allows the game to reach a state of legit content
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 05, 2014, 06:24:09 PM
You get something when there is something to get.  Or else you think you get something when there is really nothing to get.  Or else scum pretends to get something when there's nothing to get. Or else scum gets something to advance their agenda.  These are 4 ways rvs transitions to something not rvs. 

Would you want to lynch me harder if you had the chance to do so serela?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 06:27:06 PM
Would you want to lynch me harder if you had the chance to do so serela?
I literally have nothing better to do
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: CF7 on June 05, 2014, 06:28:59 PM
Let's all lynch Dormio. He's lurking, and that's not that town!Dormio usually does.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 05, 2014, 06:31:28 PM
Presenting serela: the existentialist
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 05, 2014, 06:36:55 PM
Let's all lynch Dormio. He's lurking, and that's not that town!Dormio usually does.

You should get on that
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: CF7 on June 05, 2014, 06:49:28 PM
Actually, yea... That might work.
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 06:54:25 PM
Yeah sure, Dormio meta supports it (rofl that gigantic case he made in rvs once, and it was actually on scum) so why not

##Vote Dormio

inb4 "serela just jumping onto whatever wagon looks lynchable"
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2014, 06:54:36 PM
##unvote ##vote dormio
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 05, 2014, 06:59:13 PM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Bardiche
Zakeri (2): Dormio, Raikaria
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Dormio (3): ActionDan, CF7, Serela L-2
Bardiche (1): Sky Paladin
Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 32 hours left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 05, 2014, 07:05:15 PM
Yeah but sometimes it's 'Dormio is busy' and I've not seen Dormio ANYWHERE.

I'mma hold off on lynching Dormio for lurking this soon.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 05, 2014, 07:29:59 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela


Serela's jumping on whatever wagon looks lynchable.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 05, 2014, 08:17:03 PM
How is this any different to CF7?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 05, 2014, 08:22:09 PM
because third on wagon is scum
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 05, 2014, 11:25:15 PM
My vote is serious by the way, Serela's taking this shit way too serious by making excuses in advance.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 12:00:32 AM
I wanted a post that just read "serela just jumping onto whatever wagon looks lynchable" with a vote on Serela but Bard beat me to it.
##Vote Serela
Not that I give a fuck.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 12:15:32 AM
I mean look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101582.html#msg1101582).
"Give me a free pass for anything stupid I do in the near future please" is how I'm reading it.
Which is pretty stupid, if you ask me, and unnecessary for anyone other than scum.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 12:18:34 AM
Which, in retrospect, is probably what Bard was referring to and not the latest post but whatever.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 12:23:19 AM
Oh, and speaking of the latest post, since I'm spamming right now anyway.
inb4 "serela just jumping onto whatever wagon looks lynchable"
What the fuck is this shit?
I think I've said similar things in other games but pre-empting shit like this is just a means of shutting down discussion as well as a defensive mechanism against any criticisms of your actions.
Why would town want to shut down discussion?
Why would town want to pro-actively stop other people from looking at something they do and criticizing it?
I don't really know the answers to those two questions, but if we were to replace "town" with "scum"...
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 06, 2014, 01:01:53 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (1): Raikaria
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Dormio (3): ActionDan, CF7, Serela L-2
Bardiche (1): Sky Paladin

Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
There are 26 hours left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
Quote
What the fuck is this shit?
I think I've said similar things in other games but pre-empting shit like this is just a means of shutting down discussion as well as a defensive mechanism against any criticisms of your actions.
Why would town want to shut down discussion?
Why would town want to pro-actively stop other people from looking at something they do and criticizing it?
Wow you're really overthinking that joking comment aren't you  :derp: Maybe I just, you know, foresaw that people would most likely say that, so I just made it completely clear that I was already entirely aware of how it looked? It saves a step in the discussion. You don't have to accuse me of it and wait for me to respond, I have pre-emptively responded to you, allowing you to reach the next part of your plan. You should be thanking me for making it easier on you ;_;
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 01:28:57 AM
pre-empting shit like this is just a means of shutting down discussion as well as a defensive mechanism against any criticisms of your actions.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 01:57:33 AM
what I'm getting out of this is that you're complaining about how I was aware that my action will likely be seen as scummy and stating such

Quote
a defensive mechanism against any criticisms of your actions.
And this is a scummy thing to do why? Town doesn't want to get lynched either.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 02:03:45 AM
Quote
you're complaining about how I was aware that my action will likely be seen as scummy and stating such

Just to check: I'm reading this as, "I was aware my action would likely be seen as scummy". Were you?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 02:05:39 AM
Quote
"Give me a free pass for anything stupid I do in the near future please" is how I'm reading it
I never tried to invoke this as a defense, you're basically just pointing out something I said as a joke and saying "Well I bet this means Serela is going to try to be scummy and then point at this", tl;dr you're using this as an attack over me potentially doing something bad that I never actually did.

Bard:Yes. I mean I thought that much was clear :V It's literally only a minute notch above a total jokevote so I didn't really care and did it anyway.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 06, 2014, 04:14:30 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (1): Raikaria
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Dormio (3): ActionDan, CF7, Serela L-2
Bardiche (1): Sky Paladin

Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
There are about 23 hours left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 04:40:14 AM
tl;dr you're using this as an attack over me potentially doing something bad that I never actually did.
Never did because you weren't given a chance to.

Why would you bother setting up the potential to do it if you weren't thinking of invoking it if something went awry?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 04:40:53 AM
Also, I would be pretty interested in hearing from the rest of you.
You guys can do more than just sit around watching, right?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 04:45:07 AM
NNR, is your vote on me serious yet? 

Re Dormio/Serela - Scum!Serela tunnels their scumbuddy and refuses to vote switch, and has shown an increasingly depressing inability to learn from mistakes. 

Therefore, I'm inclined to believe town!Serela at this stage on account of bandwagon hopping. 

That said, I do consider a day 1 policy lynch of Serela to be beneficial to town, regardless of alignment. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:27:34 AM
I feel like Dormio is being too loud and also that Serela isn't really worthy of the lynch for pointing out the fact that people were going to slam him just before people started slamming him.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 06:47:51 AM
So are you two satisfied with where your votes are as of now?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 08:01:41 AM
Also, I would be pretty interested in hearing from the rest of you.
You guys can do more than just sit around watching, right?

I wasn't even doing that, I was sleeping Dormio.

I think you guys are slapping each other really hard over almost nothing.

Serela, I don't think the reason for the wagon you jumped on is even realistic for this phase of the game.

I don't like how CF7 jumped on either, but what I find worse is Dan's cheerleading of the frankly awful logic CF7 put on the table. [CF7's #29; followed by Actiondan's #31.]

While Dan is sitting on his 'RVS' vote for Dormio.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan


Dormio, stop over-reacting to Serela. It's Serela. He does dumb stuff. Even when it's not LYLO.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 08:09:34 AM
Might I inquire so as to why you feel the need to defend Serela?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: CF7 on June 06, 2014, 08:51:56 AM
Well... I woke up. And i am not a wagon and there are votes on me and no-one accuses me of being scummy. It's quite a novel experience and i am at loss for words. Almost not joking.

Anyway.
Dormio/Serela. Funny thing is that they both have valid points. But whole Serela argument about doing stupid things is well... Serela-ish... And Dormio sorta activated after being at L-2. But all his posts are about Serela being Serela and that's bad.
Quote
I don't like how CF7 jumped on either, but what I find worse is Dan's cheerleading of the frankly awful logic CF7 put on the table. [CF7's #29; followed by Actiondan's #31.]
Starting discussion? Getting reaction from people? That kind of stuff? And hey, it actually worked. We have some posts and interactions and all that. Don't see it as a bad action, honestly.
Not much to say otherwise.

P.S. It's 32 degrees here and it is way hotter than my comfortable zone here atm, so i won't be sitting at my pc for long periods of time for the next 6 hours or so.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 10:47:16 AM
Might I inquire so as to why you feel the need to defend Serela?

I might enquire why you are overreacting so much. Serela's wagonjump is bad, but I really don't think it makes Serela scum. Scum wouldn't do something so early to draw attention as to put someone at L-2 almost instantly while calling out 'arguments' that would be thrown at him.

Meanwhile, /Actiondan voted you during RVS and cheerled CF7's awful case. I think that is a lot worse. It's a lot more low-key too, since Dan didn't change his vote or anything.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 10:48:06 AM
Also I don't like only Serela being targeted when CF7's case was awful and Dan's actions were bad too.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 10:49:44 AM
@ CF7: Calling people out for lurking right out of RVS and on Page 1 is just bad, but I can see it was a discussion point.. The fact Dan cheerled that awful case is even worse IMO, however.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 11:41:08 AM
Im kind a drunk so this is a short

i was wating for NNR to say 'eys it is a serious vote'

because i was like 'dude yo uvote me becuase "zomg you make bad cases" ' and its totally the same situation as

the kid in school that gets bullied and is told "it is your fault that you get bullied"

nuh uh

so I thought his vote was not actually rvs and therefore scummy.,

but hten i remembered nnr always votes me first so i guess its just love
tough love

i should write a bromance novel

dear my sweet angelica

i mean nnr

i like to touch your golden locks
caress them, those silken trellises
as they waft down upon your noble brow
i breath in your earthy scent
and wonder why we cannot be alone together

or some shit like that

anyway

myvtoe on bard was just rvs so ill improve it when i drunk more
i mean
fisnished being grunks
dur

fuck

drunk

when im done

OH SHIT THE SHIFT KEY if i

i was hitting etner all the time instead of shift maybe anyway.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 11:41:57 AM
i wanted to write more love poetry but my wife was looking over my shoulder and >::::: what hte hell is this shit
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 12:45:23 PM
ACtualy righ now Im very lonely.  I play mafia ebecause i need to have somplace to belong.


I used to be the head rad i leader of the best guild in oceanic server worl of warfraft .  but they are all gone now.

i used to be somenow, now i am just pretending.

I miss those days but i wonder was it realy livng.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 12:47:57 PM
I'll note that this is your only contribution thus far.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 12:49:03 PM
Actually, I missed the part about the inclination for town!Serela.
Either way, whatever.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 01:02:34 PM
well if you want to include 'making a case on serela' under your resume then I guess you have contributed too. 

but you know snacking on babies is like the #1 scumtell.

##unvote
##vote Dormio
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 01:31:08 PM
lel
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: SB on June 06, 2014, 01:33:29 PM
Vote Count:

Dormio (4): ActionDan, CF7, Serela, Sky Paladin L-1
ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Raikaria
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 13 hours and 30 minutes left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 01:34:39 PM
Huh, 4 votes is L-1. Right.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 01:37:54 PM
##Vote: Sky Paladin
Please stop shitting up the thread with your garbage. I'm not even joking, if you're "drunkposting" or whatever you like to pretend it is, get the fuck out and don't post. It's annoying as shit, clogs up the thread, and no one here gives a fuck. Come back when sober.

Serela's scummy because he's waxing an uncharacteristic lot about RVS, normally he's not in that much of a hurry to leave RVS, and he's been in-advance excusing himself already for scummy behaviour─mea culpa defences aren't typically kosher. After waxing about RVS, I think Serela ought to be more careful with his 'jokes' and be less misleading. Protip: It doesn't help town to paint a bullseye on yourself, regardless of what people think. Unless you're scum, then by all means.

Good enough for early RVS, not good enough for less than 24 hours left.

##Unvote

Don't like Dormio. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101732.html#msg1101732) is a horrible strawman argument. "If x then obviously y" isn't valid in this case because you're pretending Serela intentionally did x so he can intentionally do y later, where there's no evidence to support that. I agree that Serela shouldn't make up excuses beforehand, but we're past the point of RVS. Do you believe your Serela case trumps all else?

##Vote: Zakeri
I most of all don't like Zakeri making a sideline comment about "Dormio being too loud" and soft-defending Serela and over-simplifying the beef Dormio raised with Serela. The sideline comment sets him up for a Dormio vote because he implies there's something wrong with Dormio ("too loud"), but he doesn't explore it and leaves it to the rest of us to vote Dormio over it or something. I don't know. It rubs me wrong. Him sticking to ActionDan vote without clarification if he's left the RVS stage yet is also troublesome.

Other person I'd like to lynch: NNR, for being flat-out not here.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 01:44:12 PM
Actually the main thing is;
This whole point of Serela is scum because she said 'in before I am scummy' or whatever the hell it was;

See previous game (http://mafia.getonpictochat.com/index.php?topic=23.msg2473#msg2473). 

One point raised against me in Birds' argument was on my 'in before OMGUS'.  At this time, I was town; so I feel that this point is invalid. 

Re: Bard - it's my birthday in two days! 

Anyway I would actually lynch an NNR for being actually useless, whereas Dormio is trolling instead of scumhunting, so there could be an argument that trolling > afk. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 01:48:07 PM
Actually the main thing is;
This whole point of Serela is scum because she said 'in before I am scummy' or whatever the hell it was;

See previous game (http://mafia.getonpictochat.com/index.php?topic=23.msg2473#msg2473). 

One point raised against me in Birds' argument was on my 'in before OMGUS'.  At this time, I was town; so I feel that this point is invalid. 

Incomparable. "Inb4 OMGUS" still means you can think it'd be invalid criticism. Serela's said that he thought his action was scummy and he pre-empted people complaining about him being scummy. In the linked post I'm pretty sure you didn't think your vote was just a simple OMGUS.

Quote
Re: Bard - it's my birthday in two days! 
I don't give a fuck, seriously stop garbageposting.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 02:03:24 PM
Quote
Never did because you weren't given a chance to.

Why would you bother setting up the potential to do it if you weren't thinking of invoking it if something went awry?
This is really ridiculous imo. "The only reason you didn't do it is because I pointed it out before you actually did!" Oh no, now Dormio The Mastermind caught my master plan before I carried it out, now I can never not do it. ...I can't actually do it, either, so really, you probably would have been better off waiting for me to do it so you'd have ACTUAL EVIDENCE past Fairly Oddparents "I'm putting you in detention for bad things I think you might do!", which is dum.

Seriously, it was a joke, because I've actually been doing that on purpose for a few games to make RVS stop :V I was talking about it in the scum QT 2 games ago or something close to that.

~*~serela hates bad logic~*~ moving on

Quote
Re Dormio/Serela - Scum!Serela tunnels their scumbuddy and refuses to vote switch, and has shown an increasingly depressing inability to learn from mistakes. 
Considering the fact that I've been consistently dominating town whenever I roll scum for the past long while, this seems slightly out of place >:V I mean I guess it could still be true but I seem to be doing pretty well regardless, so I wouldn't call it depressing. (Then again, you could just blame motk town, but that's a completely different matter)

Quote
Serela's scummy because he's waxing an uncharacteristic lot about RVS, normally he's not in that much of a hurry to leave RVS, 
I hope the stuff I just brought out about how I was referencing stuff I've been doing in recent games and in one case have concrete evidence of having been blatantly self-awarely doing them in those games, is enough to null this argument >_>; (Then again, the one with evidence I was scum, but scum should have even less reason to care about ending rvs, not more)

I kind of agree that excusing making incomprehensible non-mafia-related walls can't really be excused by "but I was drunk", even if shadoweh thinks they're hilarious, I don't care too much if it only happens like once since I can just skip it but yeah

Anyway Dormio latching onto this stuff so hard and with some reasoning even Bard has pointed as questionable, I'm p.okay with leaving my vote where it is right now.

I looked at Zak again, but I pretty much agree with his post of "dormio is being too loud [about this]" (imo really overreacting to the point where I'm more than okay with a 48h d1 victimlynch on him) and "serela preemptively saying the post is scummy isn't worth lynching", so. It was so barely out of rvs at the time he made the post that I don't see the rest as problematic, although obv. he'll need a real vote when he posts again

I forgot how claustrophobic a 48h d1 is time-wise, anyway off to work bb~ (yes I'll be back plenty before deadline, we still have 13 hours)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2014, 02:09:22 PM
RE: Bardiche (and Serela who cut me too I guess)
Nothing else was particularly interesting so I'll poke and prod at Serela until I'm satisfied. Problem?

I honestly don't really know how to, nor do I want to, read Sky Palladium's posts with content properly so I'm hoping that I can find someone else I trust enough to read him for me.
All I know is that I don't like it. But then again I never like it which is why I have no idea what to make of it. Whatever.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 02:13:29 PM
It's okay Dormio I feel you on that one
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 02:15:18 PM
Bard
Quote
In the linked post I'm pretty sure you didn't think your vote was just a simple OMGUS.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. 

I had made a case on DNA and seeing his rage, I expected him to OMGUS me. 

Re:  Garbage posting

OK, you are right. 

I am sorry. 

I was drunk and I thought it was fun; the last time I did it a lot of people made positive comments and I thought it would be okay to do it again because nothing else seemed to be happening.  I wasn't crumbing or doing anything useful.  I'll avoid doing it in future. 

Cut by Serela-

OK I am not completely drunk but I am pretty tired. 

Oh I see I put Dormio at L-1. 

##unvote

Hmmm.  Well my thoughts on this are, Dormio sole effort so far really has been 'make a case on Serela' and trollposts.  However looking back...this has been a pretty quiet day 1 and not a whole lot has happened, really. 

I would much rather lynch NNR for being completely useless than Dormio for being unhelpful.  I'd also happily lynch Dormio because it'd be great if we didn't panic consolidate lynch for once. 

I'm gonna go read Bard's case on Zak. 

cuts;

Dormio you can ignore my posts, I was just shit posting because I thought it was funny and okay to do. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 02:25:11 PM
a lot of people have been saying we could lynch nnr, but I'm sorry, uh

48 hour d1, half is rvs and a decent chunk of the other half is already consolidation time

I don't think this is enough to be able to declare someone lurking scummily and not just "oh well it was rvs and then I worked and slept (or vice versa)"

and... oh wow wait he hasn't posted since page 1? yeah I mean it would have been effortless for scum to make a comment on what was going on at any point of page 2

wait shit I really have to be leaving for work now
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 02:35:58 PM
Looking at Dormio's post;

Quote
Why would you bother setting up the potential to do it if you weren't thinking of invoking it if something went awry?

A little earlier, Bard says:

Quote
Just to check: I'm reading this as, "I was aware my action would likely be seen as scummy". Were you?

To me this is saying essentially the same thing, just at different levels.  Therefore I do question what difference Bard sees. 

***

Re:  Zak. 
I do agree this looks pretty weird and there's been nothing from Zak to follow it up.  Would sheep. 

Re:  Raikaria
Defense of Dormio, Serela.  I'd alert it except he used it as a credible case for a vote on Dan.  So I'd vote there, except Zak's already voting there, so I'm huuuh. 

I'll sleep on it. 

##vote NNR for being useless, however I expect to improve this vote to one of Dan or Zak pending on what activity these three get up to while I'm asleep. 

cut;
We're only on 3 pages.  Page 1 is RVS.  Page 2 is you and Dormio slapping each other.  Day 3 is me drunk posting and the present conversation.  What are you waiting for?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 06, 2014, 02:48:41 PM
Actually yeah...
Dormio, why aren't you calling out Dan for his vote (as suggested by Raikaria)?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 03:52:13 PM
Yay, someone actually understands what I'm going on about.

To further the issue; Dan's said nothing at all since egging on CF7 to vote Dormio almost 24 hours ago. This is when you might start to consider calling out someone for inactivity.

Serela plays a pretty good scum game, and I simply don't think Serela's actions link up with Scum!Serela at all because if they were scum actions they're godawful scum actions. Meanwhile, Serela plays an awful town game and everyone thinks he's scummy, but lets him through to LYLO where he promptly loses the game for town.

I am a little worried about Dormio ignoreing the fact that Actiondan was egging on CF7's horrendous case [And, for that matter, largely ignoreing CF7 and tunneling Serela]; but I think it's a bit early to be calling out scumbuddy theories. Especially when those people put Dormio at L-1.

Speaking of, CF7; your initial vote reason isn't even valid anymore. Care to update us as to why you are now voting Dormio?

Anyway I would actually lynch an NNR for being actually useless, whereas Dormio is trolling instead of scumhunting, so there could be an argument that trolling > afk.

Sky; Trolling is antitown; AFK is neutral.

Also, Dormio was at L-1 for a while and wasn't hammered. That said, after what happened last game, I think scum would be hesitant to quickhammer.

Either that or they were all on Dormio already.

Or Dormio is scum.

... That's too many possibilities to actually be important without a flip, but still, I'm making a note of it now because it could be useful information later. Remember the 'Dormio is L-1' votecount, methinks.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 03:54:20 PM
Also; still think Dan is the correct lynch here. I don't really want to lynch either Serela or Dormio right now, because it usually ends up that the center of the D1 slapfights are BOTH Town. [Sky and myself can attest!] Dan's been rather inactive, goaded CF7 on a bad case and has happily been riding the Dormio wagon.

I would back up on an NNR lynch, however.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 03:55:26 PM
Oh, and I don't agree with Sky's statement that Dormio is trolling, I'm just correcting him that Trolling is worse than AFK.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Quote
I hope the stuff I just brought out about how I was referencing stuff I've been doing in recent games and in one case have concrete evidence of having been blatantly self-awarely doing them in those games, is enough to null this argument >_>; (Then again, the one with evidence I was scum, but scum should have even less reason to care about ending rvs, not more)

Invoking WIFOM as a defence isn't that much better. Self-Aware Scum!Serela acting to his Town!meta isn't an outlandish proposal.

Quote
RE: Bardiche (and Serela who cut me too I guess)
Nothing else was particularly interesting so I'll poke and prod at Serela until I'm satisfied. Problem?

Yes, if your case on Serela consists of strawman and you're going to tunnel, I do have a problem.

Quote
I do question what difference Bard sees. 

Dormio is referencing Serela saying, "Do I need to do something stupid so everyone gets mad and RVS ends?", I'm referencing Serela saying
Quote
you're complaining about how I was aware that my action will likely be seen as scummy and stating such
Dormio argues that Serela asking that means he intended to do something stupid so everyone gets mad and then invoke that defence, I'm saying that's a strawman because it doesn't necessarily mean that was Serela's plan all along.

Raikaria, how do you feel about Zakeri?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: CF7 on June 06, 2014, 04:55:34 PM
Also I don't like only Serela being targeted when CF7's case was awful and Dan's actions were bad too.
I won't call it a case. But the fact that Dormio wagon somehow managed to get 4 votes out of 5 needed is interesting. I'd say Dormio is town, based on this alone. And someone who voted is likely to be scum.
And i'd vote Dan exactly because of that. Because he was sorta active at the start, and then he disappeared. Plus his last post simply amounted to "Lynch Dormio".
##Unvote
##Vote ActioDan
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 05:08:51 PM
Raikaria, how do you feel about Zakeri?

First thought: 'Zakeri is in the game?!'

Second though: Not done enough to be anything but a null read atm. Glad he agrees with me somewhat:

I feel like Dormio is being too loud and also that Serela isn't really worthy of the lynch for pointing out the fact that people were going to slam him just before people started slamming him.

My basic stance is Serela isn't a good lynch and Dormio is overreacting and both are probobly in TvT D1 slapfighting. Zakeri seems to share this.

I'd lynch him if he was the option over Serela/Dormio for inactivity, but I'd lynch NNR way before him.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:12:48 PM
I didn't really think my defense of Serela was "soft" but okay.
I think Dormio is pretty bad for laying it on thick. Stuff like his 58's "Why you defending him" seem super jumpy and over-reactionary.

Raikaria has a lot of good points in looking at CF7 and Dan.
I don't even know why Sky is doing right now, but it perfectly matches the avatar at least. Which isn't a good thing.

Reading the case in detail, yeah I could have stood to clarify why I didn't like Dormio more. If I had done so, I probably would have put him at L-1 before that other guy above just did.

Again, I don't see where Serela being scum is a thing, RVS happens by someone voting someone for looking the scummiest in early day one, it's not out of place to call out the fact that you'll look the scummiest early day one when trying to throw yourself out to be the transitional vote target from RVS to not-RVS.

post is half done, sending anyways.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:15:12 PM
While I think Dormio is bad, he's really only MotK Town Standards of bad. I still think ActionDan is a Valid lynch, and I guess NNR Is so, if I can remember what his Avatar looked like so I could find his posts. I guess by these standards, I'm a valid lynch target as well, but I'm not voting in that direction.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 05:19:58 PM
And now my activity qualm about Zakeri is gone. Man we're god at cutting each other.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:27:05 PM
I am the Satsuki to your Ryuko
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:30:09 PM
Also; still think Dan is the correct lynch here. I don't really want to lynch either Serela or Dormio right now, because it usually ends up that the center of the D1 slapfights are BOTH Town. [Sky and myself can attest!] Dan's been rather inactive, goaded CF7 on a bad case and has happily been riding the Dormio wagon.

I would back up on an NNR lynch, however.

sheeping this in full.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:35:32 PM
I hope this answers Dormio's question of if I'm happy with my vote.
Because yeah I kind of am.

Still haven't read anything of NNR but that's because I'm only reading page 2 right now. (If it matters, I keep it to 50 post per page, so it's still only two pages long)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:36:44 PM
I have now read this supposed "Anything of NNR".
it was indeed not anything.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 05:43:38 PM
It looks like Dormio and Action Dan are both at L-2 right now.
We've got about 9 hours left.

NNR only has one vote.
I guess Serela has one, too.

I'm bored but I don't want to stop posting in mafia yet.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 06:21:10 PM
I'm bored but I don't want to stop posting in mafia yet.

Nither do I; but I don't want to be a parrot and repeat myself again; and there's not exactly anything for me to respond to in your posts. We're basically in agreement.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 06, 2014, 08:24:09 PM
I was wondering where this topic went but it ended up buried in other topics I've read

uh, but actually I'm still afk for today because it's my weekly RPG meeting.

Hopefully I'll be feeling food to post after the meeting
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 06, 2014, 08:26:57 PM
*feeling good

I thought I would have made a shitpost at least after RVS but I guess the last time I skimmed (yesterday) I had basically nothing to go on
(cue me being lynched because I'm a *player without opinions*)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 06, 2014, 08:29:21 PM
Well everyone else seems to have their priorities.

BTW, only gonna be around for about 90 mins more.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 08:42:44 PM
Quote
(cue me being lynched because I'm a *player without opinions*)

inb4sofunnyXD

I now support an NNR lynch as well, might as well get rid of all the pointless players.


Not impressed with Zakeri still. What he says looks good at first glance but bad at a second glance. This:
Quote
Reading the case in detail, yeah I could have stood to clarify why I didn't like Dormio more. If I had done so, I probably would have put him at L-1 before that other guy above just did.
doesn't seem to naturally agree with
Quote
While I think Dormio is bad, he's really only MotK Town Standards of bad.
I'm reading that as Zakeri saying Dormio is bad, but still Town. At the same time Zakeri says he'd have put Dormio at L-1, so I'm confused.

Also, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101910.html#msg1101910) is textbook reporting and I don't get the value in it. It seems to tacitly suggest we do something but offers no solution as to what to do. It's a passive kind of attitude which I've come to see often from Zakeri as Scum, where he just doesn't bother posting much and when he does, takes no active approach to anything.  While I can see the case on ActionDan, I'm not convinced on an intuitive level. I need another ActionDan post to decide one way or the other.

Current state suggests to me that Zakeri is still the best lynch. An NNR lynch is also viable; he's effectively been V/LA for all of Day 1 now, and an excuse in the vein of "lol forgot XD" doesn't cut it. It's scummy, and lynching people for shit in hand play isn't a terrible idea either.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: PX on June 06, 2014, 08:59:20 PM
Vote Count:

Dormio (2): ActionDan, Serela
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7
Serela (1): Dormio
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
NNR (1): Sky Paladin
Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 6 hours left in the day. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140606T20&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 10:01:02 PM
Hopefully I'll be feeling food to post after the meeting

Sig potential.

I really don't like that you come in saying you didn't know this game existed or had any activity in it after having posted an RVS vote, and that also coincidentally you don't have any amount of time to even offhandedly mention another player.

Yeah my stance on Dormio turned out to be contradictory. I Can't say for certain why I changed my mind, I guess it was the combination of L-1 + My vote would have been a quicklynch so I ended up backing down and am now trying to see if I can get an unbiased look at his posts in the future/after flips happen. I did say I "Would have" Voted him to L-1, not will want to do so right now.

That said, I hope you realize how dumb your case on me looks now that you's tried to slam me for making a reporter style post after having made 4-5 content posts in a row and while also I was suggesting I've run out of stuff to respond to while having Raikaria agree in the next post that there's nothing left to respond to.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 10:19:52 PM
That said, I hope you realize how dumb your case on me looks now that you's tried to slam me for making a reporter style post after having made 4-5 content posts in a row and while also I was suggesting I've run out of stuff to respond to while having Raikaria agree in the next post that there's nothing left to respond to.

No, I don't, and using ad hominem isn't going to help. Your content isn't actually "4-5 content posts" worth; you may have posted that many times, but one post is just a clarification you're sheeping Raikaria, one post clarifies that yes, you are happy with the ActionDan vote (as could have been gathered from you saying you wanted him dead, then following it up with quoting Raikaria saying the same thing) and that you're reading stuff, then another clarifying for everyone that NNR hasn't posted, and finally you report the state of the game. That's four posts in a row (five, if you count the animenerd comment), but the content in them isn't even worth calling content posts because they're twitter status updates.

You say you haven't anything to respond to, but in spite of that you kept posting. I don't know what to make of that, but if we were to assume you're scum (I am), it looks like you're trying to pad the amount of times you've posted so you can point at it and call it activity. I just don't think your post stream there adds much of anything other than reinforcing multiple times that you want ActionDan dead, but making that clear three times seems like extra-vagant.

So yes, I'm going to insist your reporter-style post only adds up to what I find wrong with you. I said earlier I felt you made a sideline comment on Dormio to keep options open and you first insisted Dormio was, indeed, bad, but then very quickly back-pedalled. I also don't like how until you clarified you were sheeping NNR, it wasn't clear at all why you remained on ActionDan, and I feel instead of making this comment (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101737.html#msg1101737) as short as it is, you could've also clarified why you were still sticking with your vote on ActionDan. Right now it feels like you're just coasting off on NNR's reasoning with none of your own.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 10:36:18 PM
I'll whack this game with a stick soon. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 06, 2014, 10:38:53 PM
Uhh, I did not use ad hominid at all, please point out where I said a thing that was insulting you directly.

I just find that part of the case really weird considering if I had posted everything in a single, large post, you would not have even considered the not-really vote-count to be reporting. It wouldn't even have been a thing, but you're trying to call me out on padding out my posts even though it would have been the same amount of content regardless of the number of posts it's been in.

Do you honestly believe that it would occur to me that if I make a thousand posts in five minutes it would make up for having three posts in 30 hours? MY reason for splitting the third post was to get some content out there while I noticed people were talking about me, and the rest were all just tacked on thoughts I had about the situation. My reason for the seventh post in a row was because I had already posted six times in a row and didn't want to stop like I had said in that very post.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 11:07:27 PM
Quote
I just find that part of the case really weird considering if I had posted everything in a single, large post, you would not have even considered the not-really vote-count to be reporting.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. As I said, my major beef is that you're presenting a gamestate, and it seems to imply to me with the 9 hours left comment, you believed that something about the gamestate should change. I distrust that sort of reporting as I want people to tell me their views, not state objective facts. Had you added something like, "I think we should consolidate on y because x", I would have found it a lot more acceptable, but you didn't and just left us hanging. I would've hated it even at the end of a big post.

Regardless of which, the fact of this situation is that you did not post everything in a single, large post, so the argument there is moot. The number of posts also isn't primarily the issue, it's the lack of content in them. Considering there's one minute between posting, "I haven't read anything of NNR yet, I'm still reading" and "okay, I read it, and there isn't anything", one has to wonder why you couldn't spend that one minute ascertaining whether there was anything before hitting submit again.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 11:09:25 PM
Considering Zakeri and bardiche are in full swing atm I'd state that Bardiche mainly has the right of it.  your content posts boil down to a couple of vague opinions, and the one I dislike is the repeated full-on agreeing that raikaria has "good points on CF7 and ActionDan" when I believe he has just one point in total and it's that I cheer leaded Cf7's case (read: meta-point) that led CF7 to vote Dormio.  Actually I simply pointed out that CF7 wasn't voted the guy he slammed with his obviously ironclad "case".  My at that time was RVS and couldn't be anything more.   I'd apply this to Raikaria but I think Raikaria is categorically less scummy by the other things he says.  I am still displeased however.

CF7 and Bardiche are town. 

Raikaria - a little more townish than null

Serela/Dormio/Sky - null/undecided.

NNR - theoretically null but I'm surprised he hasn't posted more so acceptable lurker lynch to me.

Zak - somewhat scummier than null but not more than a tinge

I'll look over again but nothing I'm latching unto strongly yet 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 11:10:01 PM
##Unvote

for now
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 11:20:43 PM
After what nnr said yeah I guess a lurker lynch on him wouldn't be that terrible (At this point of the game if you have 5 minutes you can probably make an educated post) but, I'd still rather go down that path d2 instead and lynch someone else today. Unless he actually flipped scum it'd be reaaally uninformative imo and I still think it wouldn't be entirely weird to come from town, albiet it -would- be weirder than from scum.

I don't know what my opinion on Zakeri is right now so I'll save you the waffles.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 11:22:45 PM
Actually I suppose Zakeri's weigh-in of Serela/Dormio is more specific than I give it credit for, being mostly the other thing of substance he has talked about that doesn't have anything to do with his current vote on me, but not a particularly insightful or difficult opinion to voice.

Actually now that I think about it, what is your opinion of CF7 Zakeri?  Because in the chatter you do mention that Raikaria had good points on CF7, and while you are happy with your vote on me, and agree that it was awful of me to "goad" CF7 into voting Dormio, I feel more particular feelings about CF7 have been omitted that you must have
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 11:23:29 PM
Re-read thread quickly, things that jumped out at me:

- I don't like Zakeri and Raikaria buddying up as they have. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101890.html#msg1101890) from Raikaria indicates he thought both were Town and that Zakeri shared that idea, but Zakeri posted contrary at first (saying Dormio's bad), then back-pedalled. A Zakeri scum flip begs closer examination of Raikaria.

- I don't like Dormio's bad case on Serela, and I don't like how so far he's just tunnelled onto Serela.

- I guess we can lynch NNR for not playing, but I don't want to throw the game just as a lesson to people to not sign up to games they aren't interested in playing. It's pretty much a waste of a lynch and anyone advocating it right now is being exceedingly lazy by pretending there isn't anything scummy on the table to grab instead.


Cut by ActionDan. Echoing that I'd be interested in Zakeri's feelings on CF7 and why he feels ActionDan is a better vote than CF7.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 11:28:13 PM
Dormio is trolling instead of scumhunting, so there could be an argument that trolling > afk.

not to burst your bubble, but Dormio isn't trolling here.  He's either scum making a big deal out of nothing, or town that believes what he's saying.  The funny thing is that what he's saying about Serela is plausible (in parts; going through the entire thing is headache inducing but it's possible serela goes ahead and attempts to mitigate damage [thought obviously it hasn't worked if it were the case]).
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 11:28:51 PM
Serela, you already waffled twice before in this game alone, could you please share your thoughts on Zakeri and why you feel there's a good case to make that he's not scum?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 11:38:17 PM
I'll note that this is your only contribution thus far.

I am not super at reading Dormio but this post strikes me as more town, because the serela stuff alone I can't get a read off of, but this 3rd party commentary (if you will) feels townish.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 11:40:01 PM
Bard, are you implying that Zak's done something that's actually explicitly scummy instead of just mildly unsatisfactory? (which is certainly something worth a lynch when it's d1, but I just mean, I don't see why he would be so scummy that it'd be strange for me to not have a clear opinion on him)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 06, 2014, 11:44:04 PM
##Vote NNR

placeholder in lieu of voting zak at some point (or not).  I'd like to get a clearer idea of what Serela/Sky/Dormio are contemplating also a Zakeri update that will hopefully come shortly

cut: I don't think anyone this game has done anything clearcut scummy etc.  but obviously there are 2 scum and educated guesses based on small points here and there that you find suspicious etc are welcome in the discussion.  More importantly and more to the point: who do see yourself voting for because Dormio is kinda off the table.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2014, 11:47:26 PM
Bard, are you implying that Zak's done something that's actually explicitly scummy instead of just mildly unsatisfactory? (which is certainly something worth a lynch when it's d1, but I just mean, I don't see why he would be so scummy that it'd be strange for me to not have a clear opinion on him)

I'm implying that there's a lack of reason to think he's town for me, but plenty of reason to think he's scum. If you get something different out of it, I'd love to hear it.

More than that, I realise I want to hear why you think Dormio is the best use of your vote right now. You've been cheerleading the NNR wagon a bit, care to elaborate where your conviction lies?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 11:55:11 PM
Quote
who do see yourself voting for because Dormio is kinda off the table.
What? Why? I think if it wasn't that L-1 was L-1, he'd still be at it right now, and there's people not voting him who've stated they think he's scummy. I'm actually seeing him as the most likely lynch, which is good with me because he's the only person I feel notably comfortable about voting.

Bard:I can see the reasons you think he's scummy, but I just don't really view them as strongly as you do. I don't have any kind of town points on him, though; I'd just rather see how things progress with Zakeri d2 since I don't view him as scummy enough to be worth a lynch right now.

Wait, I've been cheerleading the NNR wagon "quite a bit"? The first time I mentioned him was meant to be looking like I was somewhat discouraging the lynch, and the second time was "Well, I guess it wouldn't be terrible now after that kind of response from NNR, but I'd still really rather not". I'm been under the impression I'd adequately explained that I think Dormio is scummy for going after me hard and doing so with some reasons that people agree are questionable.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2014, 11:55:34 PM
I'm been under the impression
I've been*
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 12:08:48 AM
Keep in mind that my vote was RVS and my opinion has since changed.  I have no idea what was going on in SkyPal's drunkposting brain at that time but I'd question whether he'd be willing to vote Dormio again.

as it stands 3 people believe I'm scummy and are voting for me.
2 people (me and Bard) believe Zak is scummy.
NNR could be lynched by probably everybody.

I don't think anyone else is viable.

So it's best if you decide one of those 3.  (that goes for everyone else too).

Also scratch CF7 being town.  posts 59 and 86 are actually more contradictory than I'd have thought.  in 59, "Dormio is bad"; in 86, Dormio becomes town for the amount of votes on him for that reason alone.  It's hard for me to believe the reasons for "Dormio is bad" were discarded without further mention.  It's possible enough to think that Dormio could be scum despite being voted by less than 1/2 the players in the game because that's a thing that happens sometimes especially if you had evidence supporting scum!Dormio- That's usually how town lynch scum in the first place.  I don't mean to be too sarcastic when people have different reasons for voting the same person and the like but the about face seems unwarranted all the same without reason to throw out previous suspicion
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 12:13:08 AM
Yo, what's up. I'm back after a tiring night of sleep.

I'm writing up a post now but I'm just going to say that I still don't like Sky Palladium's posts and that I'm not really seeing scum!Zakeri.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 12:30:32 AM
It's hard to fault Sky for not wanting to commit to anything just yet, which may be the source of your displeasure
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 12:33:57 AM
So, firstly, a response to this thing:
Dormio, why aren't you calling out Dan for his vote (as suggested by Raikaria)?
The fuck is this?
Why would I pay any attention to something that I see as insignificant?
Although, this did lead me to a quick glimpse at CF7 that I found rather intriguing.

I mean I don't really care about Dan right now but I want to take a closer look at this exchange:
Let's all lynch Dormio. He's lurking, and that's not that town!Dormio usually does.
You should get on that
Actually, yea... That might work.
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio.

Like, what's up with CF7 here?
I mean it looks like he was searching for an excuse to make it look like he had a solid vote.

And then we have this followed up by this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101765.html#msg1101765) which is all sorts of what.
I mean it literally says nothing.
Nothing either way on myself or Serela and self-justification for his earlier vote on me.
The self-justification is what particularly interests me because he could have simply passed off his earlier vote as a joke up until this point.
But the fact that CF7 felt the need to defend himself in regards to it means that, in his mind at the very least, it had some weight to it.
What I'm getting from that, in conjunction with the exchange from earlier, is that CF7 was feeling pretty guilty about having forced such a bullshit reason to look like he was trying to get serious.
Which I think is pretty scummy.

And since I think that CF7 is pretty scummy, what about his latest post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101886.html#msg1101886)?
I don't understand why he chose Dan over everyone else who had voted for me.
Though something that I will note is that Dan's wagon was gaining in popularity at the time.
I think that this sort of hopeful wagoning fits in nicely with CF7's earlier behaviour where he tried to pass off his vote on me as somewhat serious in that he's just trying to subtly take advantage of situations as they arise.
##Unvote
##Vote CF7
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 12:34:46 AM
Ah fuck, we have less time than I thought we did.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 12:35:28 AM
@Mod: Can we get a votecount?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 12:38:31 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
NNR (2): Sky Paladin, ActionDan
Dormio (1): Serela
CF7 (1): Dormio
Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

like 2.5 hours left
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 12:41:28 AM
I could support a CF7 lynch.

In case more people consider that.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 12:56:40 AM
Things more relevant to the current situation:
I don't really feel like supporting the Dan lynch.
Impartial to the NNR lynch and that's where my vote will probably go if I have to consolidate but I just want to put it out there that I really hate lynches that don't tell us much about anything other than that person's alignment because the person being lynched has said nothing.
Lurkers suck and lines like the following make me angry:
(cue me being lynched because I'm a *player without opinions*)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:11:17 AM
I am around for exactly 20 minutes. 

I would policy lynch Serela for being useless and also for tunneling Dormio most of the game.  The vote was the laziest and she has done nothing to improve her vote except argue with Dormio. 

I think Dormio is bad for focusing largely only on Serela's vote, when he could (and should) have drilled CF7 and ActionDan for their shitvotes.  This inconsistency alarms me. 

I think NNR is *actually useless* and would lynch a deadweight.  However this is taking out the trash and there is probably not much in the way of secondary leads to follow up on. 

I could see Dormio/Bard as scum because Bard's main content has been to distract from the Serela/Dormio by engaging against Serela without questioning Serela's vote on Dormio; the absence of chainsaw defence.  There's also some involvement of Raikaria who has been doing what Dormio should have been doing re: shitvotes on his wagon.  Therefore I do consider Raikaria/Dormio as plausible. 

In any case, Dormio's name keeps popping up in my imagined scum teams but it's not for any perceived scumminess of what he has done, rather what his imagined partners have done, and what he has failed to do. 

Around for another 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:15:58 AM
and what he has failed to do. 
And what, pray tell, have I supposedly failed to do?
I'm quite curious here.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:16:43 AM
Also, holy fucking shit Sky Palladium.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 01:20:21 AM
Quote
I could see Dormio/Bard as scum because Bard's main content has been to distract from the Serela/Dormio by engaging against Serela without questioning Serela's vote on Dormio; the absence of chainsaw defence.

I think you need to lay off on the drugs and alcohol.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:22:37 AM
You focused only on Serela when you had other votes on you as well.  I said it quite clearly. 

You didn't challenge CF7's vote until other players (myself included) brought it up. 

So far you have only voted for people who have voted for you. 

Therefore, I can say 'you have not contributed' as you have only done things that are natural for scum to do. 

cut;

I think you need to avoid suppressing town discussion. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:23:56 AM
Also, holy fucking shit Sky Palladium.
What the fuck is this shit?
Like, I forgot who said it about what but I'm pretty sure there were some mentions about people being scummy for cheerleading or some shit.
But, considering how cheerleading or some shit has been a big topic for some today, how does crap like this
Actually yeah...
Dormio, why aren't you calling out Dan for his vote (as suggested by Raikaria)?
go unnoticed?
Like if that ain't cheerleading, what the fuck is?
This post is basically a post to remind myself to look for whoever was talking about cheerleading today once i'm done responding to cuts and shit.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:24:41 AM
Re: #133
Am I supposed to be laughing right now?
Because I'm laughing pretty hard right now.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 01:27:41 AM
I'd let it pass and focus on the other important issues.

Sky, let's pretend dormio is not going to get lynched and you had to choose between CF7 NNR Zak and Me.

Are you sticking with NNR out of those 4.  Because imo that's where the lynch is most likely heading
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:31:52 AM
Like, let me break it down for you buddy.

You focused only on Serela when you had other votes on you as well.  I said it quite clearly.
At the time the votes were Dan, CF7, and Serela.
Didn't give a shit about Dan's vote.
Didn't even really notice CF7's vote.
Serela's vote looked funny.
But whatever you say, commodore.

You didn't challenge CF7's vote until other players (myself included) brought it up.
No you didn't.
You were harping on about Dan's vote which I still don't give a shit about.
I'll note how you're trying to take credit for shit you didn't do though.
I'll also note how you retroactively included CF7 into the group of people that obviously had shit votes against me since you had said absolutely nothing about CF7 until just now.

So far you have only voted for people who have voted for you.
It really helps when over half the game has voted for me and I don't think that the remaining people (Bardiche, Zakeri, myself) are scummy.
I will note the fearmongering or whatever the fuck you call this shit though.

Therefore, I can say 'you have not contributed' as you have only done things that are natural for scum to do. 
lol

I think you need to avoid suppressing town discussion.
I think you need to stop being stupid.
Or scummy.
Who knows, I have shit about cheerleading to read.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 01:33:26 AM
Dormio sums up pretty well why an NNR lynch isn't a good idea. I kind of don't mind seeing him go, but I feel like we shouldn't be replacing mod hammers. There's technically no rule against lurking the entire game through though, is that an oversight?

I'd much rather expend town's weapon on someone who is acting actively and legit scummy. To me, that's Zakeri as a number one, and I'd like to see the arguments that say CF7 is scummier, or that any other person is scummier, but I don't see it right now. Sky Paladin is basically pointless and he's cavorting in the realm of fantasy with his latest post, Serela... well.

I didn't say "quite" a bit, Serela; that's a distinction that's important to me. I read one of your posts that said you thought it was really effortless of scum to do as NNR does, but I see now I might have misinterpreted that.

In any case, NNR isn't playing, ActionDan is actually putting out good content would sheep/10, Dormio's looking at others and making me happy.

If I want to look for a reason to lynch CF7, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101886.html#msg1101886) is sufficient since his own argument says he's equally likely to be scum, but he doesn't make a distinction why one is worse than the other. Dan is actually the first person to have voted Dormio, too, so it seems like a stretch to say if any scum jumped onto it, Dan was the one. This is bad logic and picking an easy target, as voting someone who's not posting is just about the easiest thing in the world.

The problem is that I'm not sold on an intuitive level and like my Zakeri vote that much more. If people really aren't interested in his lynch I'd be OK with swapping onto CF7; it's a much better lynch than NNR. NNR's sole claim for being lynched is not playing the game, and uh.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:34:18 AM
The hilarity of #133 made me miss this gem in #129:
I would policy lynch Serela for being useless and also for tunneling Dormio most of the game.  The vote was the laziest and she has done nothing to improve her vote except argue with Dormio. 

I think Dormio is bad for focusing largely only on Serela's vote, when he could (and should) have drilled CF7 and ActionDan for their shitvotes.  This inconsistency alarms me.
What in the literal fuck?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:36:21 AM
To clarify for certain people that might not understand, Sky Palladium is saying that Serela is scummy.
And then Sky Palladium goes on to say that I am scummy for focusing on Serela who he thinks is scummy.
Yeah I don't even know.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 01:37:21 AM
Whoops there's a loophole that's gotta be fixed :ohdear:

Gonna be a new rule about no lurking, post once every 24 hours or you get a prod, etc

1.5ish hours left. No vote changes.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:37:47 AM
Your reappearance and vote improvement improved my opinion on you. 

If I had to choose between the remaining three, I'll pick NNR or CF7.  I was leaning Zak after Bard's case, but Bard's response to 'maybe Dormio/Bard' was 'lol drugs' instead of 'that is wrong because xyz' makes me doubt his case. 

Cut by Dormio~

Quote
At the time the votes were Dan, CF7, and Serela.
Didn't give a shit about Dan's vote.
Didn't even really notice CF7's vote.
Serela's vote looked funny.

You noticed when you were at L-1 but never thought 'hmm who is voting for me and why'?  What's your motivation? 

Quote
You didn't challenge CF7's vote until other players (myself included) brought it up.

Your response to my point here actually agrees that you didn't challenge CF7's vote until it was brought up by other players, but you're trying to argue that I made it up. 

##unvote
##vote Dormio


Quote
I think you need to stop being stupid.

Do you really think I'm stupid? 

I could see Dormio/CF7.  All my scumpicks are Dormio + 1 other, so let's go with Dormio. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 01:38:33 AM
Dan doesn't look like Dan!scum. I'm too tired to reread Dormio enough to re-evaluate but he's certainly improved over before (he'd do this if he was scum too but I don't have the brainpower to think about it right now_. SkyPaladin is... sure is skypaladin. Reasons for lynching CF7 seem really flimsy but in 48h d1 I guess that's the kind of lynch you're going to get; I kind of wish he had a more recent post to look at. Lynching NNR is like the lame copout option but I'm starting to see why people are seriously considering it. Going to reread stuff more as I eat my sandwich.

Okay actually no, re-looking over the part of SkyPal's post Bard just singled out is, yeah, just from that it's way better of a lynch than NNR or CF7.

##unvote ##Vote SkyPaladin
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 01:39:47 AM
#142:
(http://i.imgur.com/FRKo8gD.gif)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:40:25 AM
Quote
To clarify for certain people that might not understand, Sky Palladium is saying that Serela is scummy.

I think you're really silly for saying you can't understand my posts or logic, but then feel like you should act as a translator for me.  You are wrong, also. 

Cut;

Serela, please indicate specifically what your case on me is.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:41:39 AM
Dormio contributing how?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 01:42:05 AM
Rule regarding lurking has been added. I don't think anyone needs a prod at the moment but I'll double-check just to make sure.

Vote Count:

ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (2): NNR, Serela
NNR (1): ActionDan
Dormio (1): Sky Paladin
CF7 (1): Dormio
Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

1 hr 20 min left.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:43:28 AM
Serela
Quote
I'm too tired to reread Dormio enough to re-evaluate but he's certainly improved over before (he'd do this if he was scum too

...you actually are voting me over this because why? 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 01:45:12 AM
I think Dormio is a better value flip at this stage because NNR is at least not shitting up the thread with useless posts, like Dormio is doing now, and we can get a lot of interactions from him.  There's not much in the NNR basket. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 01:47:41 AM
If I had to choose between the remaining three, I'll pick NNR or CF7.  I was leaning Zak after Bard's case, but Bard's response to 'maybe Dormio/Bard' was 'lol drugs' instead of 'that is wrong because xyz' makes me doubt his case. 

I kinda didn't want to humour that line with an actual response, but you were suggesting I was scum for not chainsaw defending Dormio (or Serela?). You also reference events that never happened. That's awful logic, you're basically proposing I'm scum for attacking Dormio, but not chainsaw defending him?




@MOD: Thanks for that addition.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 01:48:05 AM
it's a gotcha post. It probably comes from town though Sky. 

@Dormio, what you quoted is definitely a contradictory of sorts post... yet I still can believe a town!Sky would say those two things in the same post.  (it's honestly kinda like Serela voting you all game and now voting Sky Paladin.  On the surface contradictory, but it represents a change in thought.  Or else a schrodinger's cat thing.  It happens sometimes ok)

@Sky, Dormio is not shitting up the thread though:  See posts about CF7.  See at him quoting you, can you not see how those quotes are not shit even if you don't like them?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 01:53:18 AM
Anyway. 

hoping Zak gets in here.
hoping NNR gets in here.
hell even wondering if CF7 will get in here. 

Raikaria won't be here but the remainder should get a chance.

It kinda sucks that Sky/Serela are still sticking to their own thing.  (please change to something viable because I for one am not going to vote for Dormio/Serela/Sky over Zak/CF7/NNR)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 01:58:22 AM
I mixed up dormio and bard qq

also I think something was wrong with my sandwich, I don't feel good anymore

It's probably bad that I don't even try to refute SkyPaladin anymore. Maybe this is what it feels like when other people just accept my shenanigans and stop dealing with them as if I was anyone else. I'm sorry SkyPaladin, but most of the (mafia case related) things you say (all the time) are just щ(゚Д゚щ) worthy. I used to wall-respond to them but I just don't have the drive for that anymore :C

Dan:I thought Sky might suddenly turn into a viable wagon as a change of events, but if it doesn't then, yeah, I'm going to have to make my mind up about one of those three.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 01:58:57 AM
all of "those three" are at a stunning 1 Vote though, so, uh >_>
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 02:01:21 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (2): NNR, Serela
NNR (1): ActionDan
Dormio (1): Sky Paladin
CF7 (1): Dormio

Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

One hour left!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 02:02:51 AM
It's probably bad that I don't even try to refute SkyPaladin anymore. Maybe this is what it feels like when other people just accept my shenanigans and stop dealing with them as if I was anyone else.

Probably. When people start making conspiracy theories and cavorting in the realm of fantasy I start tuning them out. Sky Paladin destroyed any credibility he had when he proposed his logical fallacy. Basically, he's proposing the following:

- Dormio is scum, because other people have been acting in a way that supports Dormio being scum.
- Those other people are scum, because they have acted in a way that would support Dormio if he were scum.

Basically, his reasoning assumes that Dormio is scum, therefore the other people are scum, and therefore Dormio is scum. It's really awful, and I'm curious what acid he's been using to deviate so far from the logic-driven Sky Paladin that hammered Shadoweh for having emotions.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 02:04:31 AM
That last sentence killed me.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 02:13:17 AM
##Unvote:

##Vote: Cf7

because I guess this is the best chance at the moment for even reaching a lynch with who is here atm. 

I wonder if scum were/still are hoping that I'd be deadline lynched and aren't talking right now.  ???
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 02:14:54 AM
Okay, I see a Zakeri lynch is probably not going to fly considering how many people voice their objections to it. I guess the curse of being unpersuasive continues.

I agree with ActionDan that we should be looking to CF7 and NNR, buuuut... I'd consider lynching Sky Paladin, too, actually.

NNR is a bad lynch and gives us nothing because he isn't playing and hasn't posted since the game began. No, I don't consider his post saying he forgot the game existed as being a post. It's not content, it's a passer-by comment.

CF7 is a decent lynch because he's lacked to make distinctions and seems to pick scumpicks for nebulous and vague reasons. Proposing that someone on Dormio's wagon is scum proposes that Dormio is town, and while that in itself is OK, it isn't OK to just jump on the easiest target with no distinction in any direction. His own logic also states he must be scum. Wouldn't be the first time scum's cheeky.

Sky Paladin is a decent lynch because he's distracting the game right now. His drunkposting is also annoying and not helpful. The irony here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101549.html#msg1101549) is that he's now holding Dormio accountable for other people's actions. Oh, actually, ISO reading him now, I guess he did OMGUS (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101803.html#msg1101803). In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101826.html#msg1101826) he says he'd prefer NNR over Dormio, and then equally makes the mention of a great preference for Dormio. That same post also contains a reason not to lynch Dormio (slow day comment). Between here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101831.html#msg1101831) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102035.html#msg1102035) he's basically making a huge logic leap, and the timing of his vote on Dormio is such that it's a bruteforce way in to get a Dormio lynch going. I don't like it.
The quality of his arguments so far are also a liability to town.

Actually, I think I just sold myself on being happy to vote Sky Paladin over CF7.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin




Serela cut:
I know, it's difficult. He's actually arguing Raikaria is scum because Raikaria's been exploring the bad votes on Dormio's wagon, i.e. Raikaria is scum for scumhunting. It's awful. If this were a game of "lynch the largest liability to town", we'd win right here by lynching Sky Paladin, regardless of his flip.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 02:15:42 AM
This is why you have trouble getting sign-ups.  You attack the player instead of the argument and think it's okay. 

Nobody wants to play with you because it's an unhealthy environment that encourages twitter posting and afk playstyle. 

So I do appreciate this:
Quote
- Dormio is scum, because other people have been acting in a way that supports Dormio being scum.
- Those other people are scum, because they have acted in a way that would support Dormio if he were scum.

I am speculating, putting different puzzle pieces together and seeing what fits and what does not.  I initially considered scum!Dormio because of what other people had been doing, but upon closer examination I find greater evidence for scum!Dormio because of what Dormio has done. 

@Mod - there is a lot happening right now and I would hate to see another awful panic consolidation.  Can we please get a 24 hour extension?

I just don't have enough time right now to address everything or respond properly to Dan's points.  I want to, but I have to go to the doctor to get my ass carved.  I can share graphic images but this might be why I'm a little off my game, I'm kind of stressed about this right now. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2014, 02:17:00 AM
Even with the latest series of posts from Sky Palladium, I have no idea what to make of his alignment because I can see him spouting the same drivel as both town and scum.
Although I was cut by Bard and I did miss the logic leap that Bard mentions.
Reading Sky Palladium is too goddamn hard.

And I was cut again.
Damn it people.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 07, 2014, 02:17:23 AM
##unvote
##vote CF7


Sheeping Dan.  gotta go.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 02:19:46 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Sky Paladin (3): NNR, Serela, Bardiche L-2
CF7 (3): Dormio, ActionDan, Sky Paladin L-2

Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

42 minutes left.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 02:24:00 AM
Quote
I initially considered scum!Dormio because of what other people had been doing
As general advice, this (as in, hunting with a scumteam in mind) usually isn't worth doing to any significant degree (as in, past offhanded remarks) until you have very good reason to think someone is scum, and by that I mean either they flipped scum or it's at/near LyLo so there's only a few players left with a lot of evidence to look at and few scum possibilities remaining.

tl;dr Don't seriously try guessing a scumteam until someone actually flips scum or there's only a few people left/really solid evidence of it. If your case involves assuming someone else is scum with them, it's probably not reliable.

This being said I'm not relating it to the situation at hand at all, and wow we have like 40 minutes left so is a SkyPal lynch seriously possible or? We need to consolidate.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 02:24:21 AM
Cut by that votecount that's a helluva lot more consolidated than I thought we were, oh, okay.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 02:28:21 AM
It's too bad we have 3 AFK votes stuck on Dan. If there was ever a time that Dan wasn't worth voting, it's now.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 02:31:24 AM
This is why you have trouble getting sign-ups.  You attack the player instead of the argument and think it's okay. 

Nobody wants to play with you because it's an unhealthy environment that encourages twitter posting and afk playstyle. 

No, I'm pretty sure I've been saying the argument is insanely illogical. Maybe you're right and I shouldn't theorise you've taken drugs or are inebriated, but it wouldn't be the first time you're in a state of mental befuddlement and still continue posting. Even outside of the latest stunts, though, I think there's room to argue you're not acting like you would as a townie. I'm rather frustrated so I apologise if I attacked ad hominem, I just can't stand people when people post incomprehensible stuff and then demand answers.


Serela: There's also an AFK vote on Sky Paladin. We can technically lynch him, but we'd have to rely on a non-player's vote.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 02:33:28 AM
It's funny I agree with the silliness of that VC (also it looks like... a matrix!).

I actually don't think Sky P is scum.  I just don't.  I will vote him if necessary but... would rather not see that happen
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2014, 02:35:59 AM
It's funny I agree with the silliness of that VC (also it looks like... a matrix!).

I actually don't think Sky P is scum.  I just don't.  I will vote him if necessary but... would rather not see that happen

Fair enough.

##Unvote
##Vote: CF7

It's a shame Zakeri posted six times in a row and ended with the lament there was nothing to post about, but he never came back to elaborate on CF7.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 02:37:26 AM
Vote Count:

CF7 (4): Dormio, ActionDan, Sky Paladin, Bardiche L-1
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Sky Paladin (2): NNR, Serela

Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

22 minutes.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 02:42:22 AM
I'll hammer when it most likely becomes necessary, holding out just in case one of the AFK people comes back to talk.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 07, 2014, 02:45:32 AM
*nods*
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2014, 02:56:50 AM
##unvote ##Vote CF7
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 07, 2014, 02:58:10 AM
With scouts suspecting CF7, Player 1 sent in a troop to occupy the space that CF7 was in charge of. Though the space was claimed for the sake of Player 1, CF7 ended up being tried and executed for his supposed crimes. What is this, the Salem Witch Trials?

(http://puu.sh/9imSn/1268915d9e.png)

CF7 was lynched! He was a Vanilla Townie.

Vote Count:

ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
CF7 (5): Dormio, ActionDan, Sky Paladin, Bardiche, Serela LYNCH

Not Voting (0)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Night 1 begins now and will last 24 hours. Send your night actions in!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Night 1 (Player 2's Turn)
Post by: CF7 on June 07, 2014, 06:00:08 AM
Bah, i was sleeping, you bloodthirsty bastards.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 08, 2014, 02:59:44 AM
Player 2 has made their move, taking the space Bardiche was in charge of and killing Bardiche in the process. The state of the game board now looks like this:

(http://puu.sh/9jIyY/f5133da190.png)

Man, both players really suck at Tic-Tac-Toe. Who starts with the edge spaces, anyway? `_`

Bardiche was killed overnight! He was the Town Roleblocker.

Day 2 begins now and will last 72 hours. With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

End of Day 2 Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)

NNR is in need of replacement. If there is no replacement found in 24 hours, he will be modkilled.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Bardiche on June 08, 2014, 03:11:01 AM
Relevant game information. Subtle hint for victory. Livid suggestion regarding status of assailant's virginity.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2014, 03:19:41 AM
*Looks at the role-tac-toe layout*

Oh, cool, so the combination could still be almost anything. `________________________________`

I feel kind of awful right now, I'll talk tomorrow instead. I think we should lynch SkyPal though. I feel like the way wagons went and the flips mildly support this, but Bard was probably the best nightkill no matter how you look at it, though...  mmn. It's not a very solid position, I should probably wait on commenting seriously until I think things through more.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 08, 2014, 03:42:39 AM
I actually thought obvtown Raikaria would have been the best nightkill, because Bard was becoming very scummy with his continued attacks on the player/disregarding of game state. 

Given that Bard thought I was scum, it's likely he roleblocked me but died anyway, probably confirming me as 50% town. 

We should go back and check for crumbs but it's my birthday so this is probably my only post for the next 20 hours or so. 

Scum picks are Dormio/+1 other, but I'll need to review yesterday and do an object analysis and draw some diagrams since you people don't understand the difference between a point an an opinion. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2014, 03:47:41 AM
#179
(http://i.imgur.com/5Kpde29.gif)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 08, 2014, 03:52:09 AM
I understand you think you are a funny guy, but the fact is that your entire day 1 effort was:

Case on a guy who flipped town and was a minimum effort omgus vote after players decried you for ignoring other votes on you except for Serela
Trolling other players and selectively sniping my comments. 

What did you actually do that was constructive for town?

I don't see why you are so confident because you are easily the most scummy here right now. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2014, 04:00:33 AM
(http://replygif.net/i/130.gif)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2014, 04:03:26 AM
Anyway, Sky Palladium's posts aside, I want to hear more from Selery and really wish that NNR's slot wasn't basically dead.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2014, 04:05:04 AM
Raikaria wasn't around for the whole CF7 debate so I want to hear his thoughts on that, as well as what he makes of the currently living people since his content is getting outdated.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 04:28:16 AM
Sky paladin.  There is a limit.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 04:30:09 AM
Interested in nnr zak and raikaria posting
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 04:31:16 AM
A and 4 the record bard would have roleblocked zak.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 05:52:24 AM
Hello.

My laptop charger bit the dust so this is ekeing out the last bit of power my laptop currently has until I can get a replacement. So nothing more for a few hours at least after this; sorry!

I am not happy about the fact that we lynched CF7. Especially since it was following Actiondan. For example, a key part of Actiondan's case was a change in opinion on Dormio between #59 and #86.

The thing is, this is 27 posts. That's only just less than half of what existed at the time of the first post. More than half when you take out the mod posts. Opinions and game state can change, especially when there is 50% more content.

I mean, yeah, his initial Dormio vote was bad. But that was as much Actiondan as it was CF7.

People thought Dan was scummy, and then suddenly they follow him on consolidation. This is actually worrying.

However, Dan makes this case on CF7 without moving his vote to back it up; to show he is serious. There was still time to move back if he did not have support. It almost seems like he did not want to commit until he knew there was support for his case. As I said before; the vote speaks a lot.

Dan was the one who sowed the seeds of the CF7 lynch in #120; but he didn't commit to it until #158. With the excuse that it was:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Cf7

because I guess this is the best chance at the moment for even reaching a lynch with who is here atm. 

I wonder if scum were/still are hoping that I'd be deadline lynched and aren't talking right now.  ???

Also nice subtle suggestion about future lynches there.

It's also orth noting that NNR has two votes at this point and CF7 only has the one. If Dan wanted to lynch the only 'viable' option like he claims; he would have voted for NNR.

Unless for some reason he didn't want to vote NNR. And when Sky becomes equal with NNR and CF7; Dan basically puts his foot down; says 'I'm not moving' and Bard wagonhops instantly afterwards.

Serela then hammers.

Dan started the bad lynch but didn't commit, Dan then removed other options. Dan is responsible for the townie lynch, and his behavior towards the NNR lynch [Read: Disregarding it entirely when he voted for CF7; claiming CF7 was the most viable lynch when NNR had more people voting] suggests he may even be a potential scumbuddy.

##Vote: Actiondan

Also, Dormio, please. Stop being a blockhead and posting GIFs. It dosen't help us in any way, shape or form, and as I said before; actively trolling the thread and making Sky angry is an anti-town action, while AFK is neutral because at least you're not doing damage. If you have nothing to say to Sky; just ignore him or say it with words. Maybe that'll stop the silly slapfights and get us focused on more important things.

Like Dan's actions leading up to the CF7 lynch.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 05:54:25 AM
And yes, I know I was not happy about CF7. Although Dormio bringing up what I had been saying most of Day 1 after I had left is almost facepalm worthy.

Also worth noting Dan targeted someone who could not even defend himself since he wasn't here. [Probobly timezones].
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 05:55:03 AM
Also god damnit Zakeri you're not supposed to die. Where is my cutting buddy now?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 08, 2014, 06:33:32 AM
Day 1 analysis. 

Initial points
Shrinemaiden Scums tend to vote for each other in rvs
There must be only 2 scums because no LYLO with 7 players. 
Who voted where in RVS?
Zak -> Dan
Serela -> Dan
Dan -> Dormio
Dormio -> Zak
Sky -> Bard -> town vote
CF7 -> Neko -> town vote
Raikaria -> Zak
Bard -> Dan -> town vote
NNR -> Sky -> town vote
DIscount all town votes, possible trivial teams;
Zak and Dan
Serela and Dan
Dormio and Dan
Dormio and Zak
Raikaria and Zak
***
Serela #25 -> non content post, attack on Dan. 
Serela #25 NCP. 
Dan #31 -> invite attack on Dormio. 
Serela #33 -> vote without case. 
Raikaria #36 -> defend on Dormio. 
Raikaria #37 -> Challenge Bard vote for reasonable cause ("How different from CF7?")
Dormio #43 -> attack on Serela. 
Serela #50;
"tl;dr you're using this as an attack over me potentially doing something bad that I never actually did."
Serela actually did to it (voting any lynchable wagon) and continued to do it later in the phase. 
Point ceded to Dormio by trivial analysis. 
Zak #55 -> Invite attack on Dormio without cause, defence of Serela without basis.  Encourage status quo = attempt to appear active without contributing -> non content post.  What is motivation behind this post?  Called out by Bard later (I wanted to sheep this until Bard used attack on player).  Scummy post. 
Raikaria #57 -> Cheerleading comment Dormio will later look for (Dan on CF7 -> Dormio). 
Attack Serela's non-case (accurate).  Reasonable vote for ActionDan. 
Raikaria #60 -> Defend of Serela.  Also WIFOM however.  Invite inspection/response of Dan. 
Raikaria #61 -> Question why only Serela is being tagged when CF7 and Dan's vote were also awful. 
Serela #75 -> Battling over INB4 comment.  Claims as a joke (plausible, I have done it before), but defuses joke argument by trying to argue it as a plausible action.  Point still ceded to Dormio.  Argues that Dormio jumped the gun and that he should have waited.  Strawman/invalid. 
Gloats about being a great scum player :V  Actually states the last time they pulled this stunt they were actually scum. 
Updates case to "Voting Dormio because questioning Sky over drunk posting."
Hand wave support of Zak.  Mutual defence.  Could be a scum pair of Zak/Serela. 
Serela #79 -> Random out of the blue defence of NNR for no apparent reason. 
Raikaria #82 -> "Remember Dormio at L-1".  Certainly relevant but require a flip *somewhere* to find out in what way. 
Raikaria #83 -> Soft buddying to Sky.  Invite attack on Dan, NNR. 
Zak #88 -> "I don't really think my defence was soft, but okay".  Fails to argue point, therefore invalid.  Continues to press 'Dormio is pretty bad' for pressure on Serela ergo continuing to defend Serela. 
Agrees he should make a better case on Dormio (where is it...?)
Zak #89 -> Drops case on Dormio.  Invites vote on Dan or NNR.  Makes previous post non content post.  Therefore key points are 'defend Serela, lynch Dan or NNR'. 
Zak #102 -> Question NNR.  Admits opinion flip on Dormio (good). 
Follow up with Bard/Zak entanglement.  Likely reason for Bard death either to implicate Zak or because 'he knew too much'. 
Dan #107 -> Support of Bard/implies invite attack on Zak. 
Town clears CF7 and Bard as town.  They both died town. 
Serela #109 -> Basically ok with NNR lurker lynch, but on day 2.  Technically soft defence of NNR.  Second mention of defending NNR. 
Dan #112 -> soft defense of Dormio. 
Dan #114 -> soft defence of Dormio. 
Serela #118 -> Invite attack on Dormio "see him as most scummy".  Soft defend of Bard.  Lies about not defending NNR. 
Dan #120 -> Attack on CF7. 
Dormio #121 -> Invite attack on Sky, soft defence of Zak. 
Dormio #123 -> Legitimate case and vote on CF7. 
Dan #127 -> invite attack on CF7. 
Dormio #128 -> Soft defence of Dan. 
The main point of my argument against Dormio is that he did not challenge the votes of ActionDan or CF7 until after Raikaria and myself had asked about it. 
He explained away ActionDan's vote as "I didn't care about it (because RVS?)" which we can let lie.  He votes for CF7 because of what I agree is a reasonable case (not OMGUS). 
If he had actually said that instead of posting crap we could have avoided all the drama. 
So, I'll apologise here for being wrong and misrepresenting Dormio; let's move on. 
Dan #136 -> Defend of Dormio. 
Serela #143 -> Defend of Dan.  Defend of Dormio but states Dormio is scummy (!).  Defend of CF7.  Defend of NNR.  Invite attack on Sky. 
Dan #151 -> Defence of Sky.  Defence of Dormio.  Not taking sides.  Then takes Dormio's side. 
Dan #152 -> Invite attack on CF7/Zak/NNR.  Defend Dormio/Sky/Serela. 
Serela #153 -> Admits he voted Sky because "I thought Sky might suddenly turn into a viable wagon as a change of events" errr uhh....this post is also an empty content post otherwise. 
Serela #164 -> Defence of Dormio.  Discredits scum hunting by association.  Invites lynch of Sky who is scum hunting by association.  Ruh roh. 

***

I'll do pictures and stuff later. 

TL;DR

Dormio, the main bones of the argument we had was because I thought you were ignoring that CF7 was voting for you, along with Serela and ActionDan, and I felt that behavior was inconsistent, and therefore scummy. 
Having re-read the thread I'll agree that you discounted Dan's vote because (probably) of RVS, and you addressed CF7's by making a case and voting for him.  The case is legitimate (although unfortunately wrong). 

I'm apologising for arguing with you over this.  I admit that even though I wasn't drunk at that time I was still a little bit hung over and worried about my upcoming doctor appointment where something bad was about to happen to me. 

You might still be scum but I am agreeing that what I had so far on that point had no merit, so let's let it drop and move on. 

***

I'm kind of leaning Serela and Zak as scum for a couple of reasons at the moment, but I'm going to sit down later on and actually do some graphs and charts and stuff and see if there's actually better correlations there.

Notably Dan (in relation to Raikaria's post above) has very few interactions with players outside of soft defence, and that's the kind of playstyle I do expect scum to try for. 

Anyway I apologise for being a jerk yesterday, let's get on with it. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 11:18:53 AM
I have power again!

On the topic of Serela, it doesn't seem like classic Serela, but it also doesn't feel like 'Bad Vibes' Serela which turned out was actually scum before. Usually I have a strong read one way or the other on Serela, but this game, I'm kinda null on Celery.

Personally I think Actiondan is likely scum. Question is who would make sense alongside Actiondan.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2014, 02:38:27 PM
Personally I think Actiondan is likely scum. Question is who would make sense alongside Actiondan.
Again, you worry about scumpartners after lynching the scum and seeing if they actually are scum.

I woke up to still have the headache I went to bed with, so I'll read the walls later x_x
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 03:22:54 PM
I am not happy about the fact that we lynched CF7. Especially since it was following Actiondan. For example, a key part of Actiondan's case was a change in opinion on Dormio between #59 and #86.

The thing is, this is 27 posts. That's only just less than half of what existed at the time of the first post. More than half when you take out the mod posts. Opinions and game state can change, especially when there is 50% more content.

I mean, yeah, his initial Dormio vote was bad. But that was as much Actiondan as it was CF7.

One of the key points would be CF7's lack of anything resembling a reason as to why his opinion changed besides "Dormio wagon went to L-1 => Dormio is town" which has nothing to do with "content" or "27 posts inbetween".  In fact it's a stance that outright ignored both your post mortem excuses you have made for him which you are expecting me to have weighed in on... which I did, and categorically thought were points against CF7.

If you're looking at original Dormio votes, mine was RVS, so the two were not equivalent.  If you're thinking I totally agreed with CF7's dormio hate and encouraged him to vote, you're 1/2 right.  I encouraged him to at least correct an inconsistency in him not voting his suspicion by pointing out that he wasn't voting Dormio. This was mentioned in post   #107 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101996.html#msg1101996) though you're ignoring it / missed it by not referencing it.
   
However, Dan makes this case on CF7 without moving his vote to back it up; to show he is serious. There was still time to move back if he did not have support. It almost seems like he did not want to commit until he knew there was support for his case. As I said before; the vote speaks a lot.

Dan was the one who sowed the seeds of the CF7 lynch in #120; but he didn't commit to it until #158.

It's also orth noting that NNR has two votes at this point and CF7 only has the one. If Dan wanted to lynch the only 'viable' option like he claims; he would have voted for NNR.

Unless for some reason he didn't want to vote NNR. And when Sky becomes equal with NNR and CF7; Dan basically puts his foot down; says 'I'm not moving' and Bard wagonhops instantly afterwards.

Dan started the bad lynch but didn't commit, Dan then removed other options. Dan is responsible for the townie lynch, and his behavior towards the NNR lynch [Read: Disregarding it entirely when he voted for CF7; claiming CF7 was the most viable lynch when NNR had more people voting] suggests he may even be a potential scumbuddy.

##Vote: Actiondan

This is horrendous and sloppy.

in #120 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102018.html#msg1102018) not only do I "sow the seeds of the CF7" by casing him, I also assess wagon viability with 3 hours left on the clock.  Further more I had already declared Zak to be scummy and yet was still voting NNR so it shouldn't be a wonder that I haven't voted CF7 after voicing suspicion of his slot.  I was also waiting for new posts by Zak/NNR/CF7 to help me decide where my vote was best placed, this is also why I commented that my NNR vote was a placeholder vote.  I immediately reiterated that I would support a CF7 lynch right after Dormio voted CF7, showing my "committal" to CF7 as a lynch candidate.  At the point where I voted CF7, contrary to what Raikaria claims, there was only one vote on NNR not two, and it was my own.  If Raikaria meant Sky Paladin in place of NNR (thought it's obvious from the rest of his post he didn't), then I had stated previously in #152 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102063.html#msg1102063) that I wouldn't be voting Sky-Paladin over Zak/NNR/CF7.

The only option I 'removed' again is Sky Paladin (which I did say I'd vote for if it came down to it vs no-lynch).  In any case 'removing' people from the lynch happens to not be an intrinsically scummy action despite Raikaria using it as part of his diatribe against me (because this is quite far away from anything resembling a 'case').  It might be if there were a reason I shouldn't have removed a particular option from being a lynch candidate but that's clearly no concern of Raikaria's. 

All that is said here is a IIOA of a timeline of my contribution to lynching CF7 and a pathetic and superficial appraisal of my #120 attempting to explain why I shouldn't have done so.  There is no particular concern about other people who voted for CF7, much less Dormio's own case 3 posts later (which is pretty good btw reading it again especially the last paragraph).

This is either tunneling something fierce or scum bullshit, but either way the complete lack of sense here is not a welcome sight.

Zakeri, NNR input desperately needed at this point 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 04:48:57 PM
This post isn't my main issue:
Keep in mind that my vote was RVS and my opinion has since changed.  I have no idea what was going on in SkyPal's drunkposting brain at that time but I'd question whether he'd be willing to vote Dormio again.

as it stands 3 people believe I'm scummy and are voting for me.
2 people (me and Bard) believe Zak is scummy.
NNR could be lynched by probably everybody.

I don't think anyone else is viable.

So it's best if you decide one of those 3.  (that goes for everyone else too).

Also scratch CF7 being town.  posts 59 and 86 are actually more contradictory than I'd have thought.  in 59, "Dormio is bad"; in 86, Dormio becomes town for the amount of votes on him for that reason alone.  It's hard for me to believe the reasons for "Dormio is bad" were discarded without further mention.  It's possible enough to think that Dormio could be scum despite being voted by less than 1/2 the players in the game because that's a thing that happens sometimes especially if you had evidence supporting scum!Dormio- That's usually how town lynch scum in the first place.  I don't mean to be too sarcastic when people have different reasons for voting the same person and the like but the about face seems unwarranted all the same without reason to throw out previous suspicion

Sure, you come out of left wing with the CF7 thing, but still, it's a little strange you didn't vote CF7 at this point when you used statements such as 'scratch CF7 being town', meaning you were confident he was scum.

My issues are that you say this only a few posts later to encourage people to discuss it and gauge support for the lynch:

I could support a CF7 lynch.

In case more people consider that.

Then you encourage Sky to stop thinking about Dormio:

I'd let it pass and focus on the other important issues.

Sky, let's pretend dormio is not going to get lynched and you had to choose between CF7 NNR Zak and Me.

Are you sticking with NNR out of those 4.  Because imo that's where the lynch is most likely heading

However at this point, CF7 and Dormio have the same number of votes. Both are equally 'viable' lynches. Yet you activly encourage Sky to get off Dormio and consider the others. With the logic that a Dormio lynch isn't happening when at the same time you list CF7 and Zakeri. Both of whom also have 1 vote. And the Dormio vote wasn't even Sky. It was Serela!

It kinda sucks that Sky/Serela are still sticking to their own thing.  (please change to something viable because I for one am not going to vote for Dormio/Serela/Sky over Zak/CF7/NNR)

Here we go again. Actiondan outright refusing to vote for Dormio. This even suggests he'd force an NL rather than have Dormio lynched for one matter. Fact is, Dormio has 2 votes. CF7, Zakeri and NNR at this point all have 1. These are not 'more viable' lynches.

Serela even calls this out.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Cf7

because I guess this is the best chance at the moment for even reaching a lynch with who is here atm. 


I wonder if scum were/still are hoping that I'd be deadline lynched and aren't talking right now.  ???

And then there is this blatent lie. Dormio is the best chance you have of getting a lynch with who is left. Dormio has 2 votes. CF7 has 1.

Your Late Day 1 was basically a pack of lies about the 'viabilty' of lynches. You were also covering for Dormio, and honestly if you flip scum, I'd go after Dormio next.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 04:51:46 PM
And attempting to discredit my points as 'tunneling or scum bullshit' isn't exactly conductive.

As for votals, I must have got confused. There's a lot of votals at that point of the game because consolidation is close. I probobly read the wrong one.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2014, 05:47:00 PM
This is the best play I've seen from Dan since before DEFCON (at the least, I don't really remember before that much) and I'm hesitant to vote for it. And even though he's been lurky as town, his scum play has consistently been practically-doesn't-exist-tier, wheras town!Dan actually kinda does something at some point. And it sure worked really well for him as scum :V

Of course, if the actual activity is scummy, then it's scummy. I don't feel awful anymore and I have like half an hour to look at mafia. Lesse.

Quote
People thought Dan was scummy, and then suddenly they follow him on consolidation. This is actually worrying.
Towards the end of the day at least two people (me and Bard) had stated they thought Dan was looking really town. Honestly I never really understood where the wagon went from "lol dan claimed scum" rvs wagon into something serious?

Quote
Dan is responsible for the townie lynch, and his behavior towards the NNR lynch [Read: Disregarding it entirely when he voted for CF7; claiming CF7 was the most viable lynch when NNR had more people voting] suggests he may even be a potential scumbuddy.
The NNR lynch would have been fucking awful, and listing it as a non-option is a completely reasonable opinion IMO. And I think Bard thought the same thing about it, but I haven't rechecked his posts. Honestly this isn't even reliable if NNR's slot flips scum in the future because several other people thought the same thing about it.

I don't think the way Dan went about suggesting a CF7 lynch and such was all that scummy, but he already adequately responded to this I think. There was also the part where Raikaria calls Dan out for not wanting to lynch SkyPal, but that's not scummy unless SkyPal actually flips scum in the future or if it was contradictory to opinions Dan had stated.

Quote
My issues are that you say this only a few posts later to encourage people to discuss it and gauge support for the lynch:
to be fair this is a completely reasonable town action when it's a couple hours to deadline and it's a wagon no one has talked about before

I admit that Dan's trying to push people off the Dormio lynch is a little odd, but I'd have to reread a large portion of the thread to seriously reconsider this and given I don't think Dan looks scummy for any of your other reasons I really don't think it's worth it. (I wouldn't consider voting Dan purely off of that, after all, and even so if he just firmly thinks Dormio is town it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable)

I do agree that going to the point of just outright trolling skypal isn't cool tho'.

Anyway, about Dan's response... I have to agree that most of the stuff Raikaria says is scummy, is not anything that actually would make someone scummy. Most, if not all of the things Raikaria is saying are scummy actions are perfectly reasonable from town!Dan in this scenario, not counting that I really didn't think CF7 was worth lynching.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2014, 05:50:32 PM
that being said I'd put raikaria down as misguided town atm. I think? I admit the line in this case between misguided town and "might be scum" is really blurry. I have to start getting ready for work or I'd get to the part where I try to evaluate who I want lynched. What happened to Zakeri, anyway?

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2014, 05:55:21 PM
Whilst I'm doing my getting ready things and thinking about mafia, gut says Zak is probably scum. All the reasoning for such is kind of unreliable or unquantifiable, as gut tends to be, but yeah.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 06:20:31 PM
I keep seeing people saying they are leaning scum on Zak for reasons but they are not quantifying those reasons.

Seeing as I'm a little confused as to what exactly people are seeing as scummy in Zakeri's actions [Nothing stands out like when I read Dan], can someone explain what's giving those opinions?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 06:27:19 PM
Sure, you come out of left wing with the CF7 thing, but still, it's a little strange you didn't vote CF7 at this point when you used statements such as 'scratch CF7 being town', meaning you were confident he was scum.

My issues are that you say this only a few posts later to encourage people to discuss it and gauge support for the lynch:

Then you encourage Sky to stop thinking about Dormio:

However at this point, CF7 and Dormio have the same number of votes. Both are equally 'viable' lynches. Yet you activly encourage Sky to get off Dormio and consider the others. With the logic that a Dormio lynch isn't happening when at the same time you list CF7 and Zakeri. Both of whom also have 1 vote. And the Dormio vote wasn't even Sky. It was Serela!

Here we go again. Actiondan outright refusing to vote for Dormio. This even suggests he'd force an NL rather than have Dormio lynched for one matter. Fact is, Dormio has 2 votes. CF7, Zakeri and NNR at this point all have 1. These are not 'more viable' lynches.

Serela even calls this out.

And then there is this blatent lie. Dormio is the best chance you have of getting a lynch with who is left. Dormio has 2 votes. CF7 has 1.

Your Late Day 1 was basically a pack of lies about the 'viabilty' of lynches. You were also covering for Dormio, and honestly if you flip scum, I'd go after Dormio next.

no I was not confident he was scum, if I was I would have voted him.  "Stratch CF7 being town" means "I am redacting what I said in a previous post, namely, 'that CF7 is town' (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101996.html#msg1101996)". 

I do not understand why it is an issue for you when I gauge support for a lynch I desire (or honestly any lynch at that) close to deadline.  I've done it plenty before, and it hasn't been an issue and rightly so.

To clarify "I'd let it pass" is directed at Dormio concerning Sky-Paladin recent posts.  Again asking Sky Paladin to gauge his feelings for other lynch candidates besides Dormio (the two he commented on were Serela / NNR and Serela wasn't exactly up for lynching) even using apparently polarizing language like "pretend Dormio isn't getting lynched" is a non-issue regardless of the vote count or viability.

Speaking of viable lynches at the end of D1, and considering that the rest of your post goes on about Dormio being the most viable lynch, concluding that everything I said about viable lynches was a pack of lies, allow me to educate you:

Total people alive D1: 9
lynch threshold: 5
Active votes at deadline: Bardiche, ActionDan, Dormio, Serela, Skypaladin.
Possible lynches requiring part or all of the above assuming no self-votes:  ActionDan, Skypaladin, CF7, Zak, NNR, Raikaria.
 
So despite what the votecount said about votes on Dormio versus CF7, he was unlikely to get lynched.  But you're right, I probably wouldn't have voted him anyway even to secure a lynch.

I don't understand why you think it's scummy of me to not accede to a Dormio lynch when I was leaning town on him despite however viable you think it was, engage with Sky paladin about other topics besides Dormio, or possibly quibble about what's viable considering my own bias in who I wanted to lynch.

You call these issues but I can't fathom why they are or how they are impressing upon you that I am a priority scum candidate.

Serela has a lovely sensible post right above.  Well said.
   
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 06:33:16 PM
I keep seeing people saying they are leaning scum on Zak for reasons but they are not quantifying those reasons.

Seeing as I'm a little confused as to what exactly people are seeing as scummy in Zakeri's actions [Nothing stands out like when I read Dan], can someone explain what's giving those opinions?

For one thinking that you had "good points on CF7 and Dan" keeping his vote on me, and not commenting about CF7 in any capacity, which means "good points on CF7" is a very vague statement because you weren't a fan of CF7 back in the day.  Other than that nothing specific comes to mind and I was planning to look over him again.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 07:08:22 PM
I got Zakeri and Bardiche mixed up with my initial reaction to it.

Zakeri's main content does seem to be parroting me. He's also vanished.

Man playing mafia with 2/7 AFK is annoying. Heck, where's Dormio?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 08, 2014, 07:10:09 PM
Dr Rawr replaces NNR effective immediately.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 07:10:36 PM
To sum up my thought on Zakeri, while there's nothing that stands out as glareing scum to me in his posts, I'm not exactly impressed by them either. The warm fuzzy glow I get from his ageeing with me is nice, but that dosen't change the fact that he's done little else other than smack NNR for sleeping and saying about his own Dormio stance changing.

Although this is ironic:

I'm bored but I don't want to stop posting in mafia yet.

CUT BY REPLACEMENT.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 07:13:57 PM
Reading over Zakeri again the case can be made (and Bard does make it) that Zak's vote (while always on me) is rather confused.  He had not previously expanded why he kept it when his first instance of probable suspicion surfaced by declaring Dormio "too loud".  Perhaps it's still an RVS vote and changing it then was not necessary because Zak felt his own comment about Dormio was paltry enough to not be worth the bother.   Later he does list a few viable lynches which includes me/NNR  (though not CF7) and at the same time calls (and I'm being liberal in my interpretation by not outright saying 'he calls Dormio town') Dormio capable of being town despite being showing behavior that Zak would have otherwise classified as scummy (see post #88 and #89 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101894.html#msg1101894)). These are opinions he cements by quoting and sheeping a post of raikaria's which features these same ideas.  I think two things are off.  1) repeated mentions of Dormio being bad in post #88 while being happy to use Raikaria's post above that he clarifies he's sheeping to justify his vote on me.  Why bother with Dormio being bad at all if you're just going to say he could be town because ??? Raikaria says it's likely to be a TvT slapfight 2) CF7 is neglected being a viable choice when there's no reason not to include that option if you're going to sheep Raikaria.  That and no actual original opinion on CF7 when it was very much relevant
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 07:16:38 PM
Hi Rawr you're clearly 100% town amiright?

Please shower us with your pristine thoughts on this game you were clearly following all along
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 07:22:43 PM
Oh yeah, also, if you thought CF7 was not town, what did that make him, Actiondan? 'Not Town' is 'Mafia'.

Those are valid points however on Zakeri, and the fact you seem to be putting effort into scumhunting rather than 'We should lynch CF7 guys don't lynch Dormio' is an improvement. I need to mull things over, and I want to see Zakeri actually... post. Not to mention Rawr's fresh, new, stance on the game.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 08, 2014, 07:37:13 PM
I Remember scum hunting yesterday
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 08, 2014, 08:18:01 PM
OK, doing something that looks to me like scumhunting.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 08, 2014, 08:44:22 PM
"I Guess I Should Make a Vote Count Even Though There's Only One Vote" Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria

Not Voting (6): ActionDan, Zakeri, Sky Paladin, Serela, Dr Rawr, Dormio
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

There are about 54 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 08, 2014, 10:55:03 PM
I'm at work on my 15min break but here's some quick thoughts.

##Vote:Zakeri

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 08, 2014, 11:25:22 PM
Dan, what are your thoughts on Serela?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 08, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
No matter how many times you say "I really wish Zakeri was here and talking" I can't do that until I'm awake and have read the game.

I'm having a hard time reading Dan. All of the notes I felt worth taking on him except for one is focusing on CF7 who didn't have a chance to post since before Dan showed up. I don't feel like it's Dan's fault that this happened though (That is, I don't think Dan is acute enough to use Timezones against people unless they mentioned going to sleep with less than 12 hours left in the day.)
I did agree with Raikaria's point that He had been completely disacknowledging Dormio as a wagon, but apparently Dan was really on the game with Dormio not actually being viable? There's a few things that add up, but nothing that points to a big reveal, so I'm kind of doubting the case against him here.

One thing, though, Can you tell me what you saw differently in CF7's Vote on Dormio changing into a Probably town versus, say, Sky's 129 post where he says he would policy lynch Serela for having a bad vote and tunnel on Dormio and then mentions that Dormio is probably scum for dragging out a bad case against Serela?

Raikaria is town. I think Serela is town, because his posting style so far is more in line with his cute derpy town posting only with less derp. I also think Dormio is town, given I don't agree with any of the cases he made on day one, though it's hard for me to judge his CF7 case fairly given I didn't see it until after CF7's flip.

I really feel like Sky is trying way too hard to play up the derp angle as a means of getting people to ignore him. The Drunk posting that pissed of Bard was the first step in doing so, which would set precedent for people being more lenient on the rest of his posts. This alone doesn't make him scum, but in conjunction with bad logic he put down in his other posts, i.e. the failed meta defense for Serela, and that fact that his 129 post alone has him flip flopping between Serela being a good vote and Dormio being scum for trying to vote him (Not to mention the flip flop after saying in post 78 that he couldn't hold Dormio accountable for not having anything else to talk about).

In general, I feel like Sky is most trying to avoid being held accountable, and I don't feel like his opinions clash with themselves naturally. From what he posted Day 2 so far, It does feel like he's sorted out what he wants to say about why Dormio might be scum, but I don't really buy into it, and I still feel like he didn't come to that knowledge naturally by means of translating Town gut feeling into finding the words for it.

##Vote: Sky_Paladin

Also, hedging bets on Rawr being other other one based on this feeling alone. Unless it's Dan of course.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 09, 2014, 12:49:23 AM
Dormio has requested V/LA for 12 hours.

Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Zakeri (1): Dr Rawr
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (4): ActionDan, Sky Paladin, Serela, Dormio
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

There are about 50 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 09, 2014, 03:50:29 AM
tbh the vote on zakeri was kinda impulse. i hadnt read the game too close near the end and reading his posts from 91-95 made me think more like he was just faking town effort, sheeping, and looking over the case from bardiche could possibly be scum. its these little things that make me gut read him as scum.

Quote from: raikaria
And then there is this blatent lie. Dormio is the best chance you have of getting a lynch with who is left. Dormio has 2 votes. CF7 has 1.
false (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102067.html#msg1102067) action dan was the best chance at getting lynched, follow up was sky paladin. nnr dormio and cf7 were all tied. raikaria do you have anything else besides the fact that actiondan started the cf7 wagon?

Quote from: zakeri
I did agree with Raikaria's point that He had been completely disacknowledging Dormio as a wagon, but apparently Dan was really on the game with Dormio not actually being viable? There's a few things that add up, but nothing that points to a big reveal, so I'm kind of doubting the case against him here.
Having abit of trouble trying to understand this. i saw you completely sheeping raikarias 83 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101859.html#msg1101859) but after that i start to get confused. are you saying with dan voting cf7 over dormio means they are potential scum buddies if either of them flipped scum?
i also dont feel like your sky paladin case is all that strong after reading the many fabulous cases sky has made before. i also think his 191 is pretty cool and i dont think scum would that kind of effort in.

serela seems to have stopped spewing out waffles from his mouth it seems, but whats coming out now is weirding me out. something about sandwiches and inb4s

would like to see raikaria reply after seeing the vote count right before actiondan voted cf7. unless im wrong and if so please point it out

dormio seems like a pretty cool guy, not to much interest in lynching him. would like to see his actual thoughts on who he thinks is scum and not him asking other people there thoughts. but i guess well see in 12 hours  :D

@actiondan yea i was actually pretty shocked replacing in as a townie. would like your thoughts on who you think is scum though, almost nobody seems to be voting or saying much about who they think theyre scum  :colbert:
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2014, 05:01:46 AM
I'd be sleeping instead of posting if I didn't think "someone is going to notice I posted in like 3 other threads just now and ignored mafia", but I just got home and it's 1am, so, no

Probably will want to lynch between Zak or SkyPal (as said in previous posts... kinda) but I don't have a reliable read on either and I need to seriously evaluate them tomorrow, thankfully I don't have work :D

Actually, peeking over DrRawr's post again... SkyPal's effort -is- a thing now that I remember it, but there's precedence for him putting in a lot of effort as scum, so I'm conflicted. 1am isn't the time for me to be making these decisions though, soooo. Actually now that I think about it harder I'd probably vote Zak still, yeah. Rawr are you up for a shitty Zak wagon with no clear justification so when he flips scum he's just like "what the fuck was I even supposed to do, they didn't even make a real case on me ;_;" and sustain motk town being bad even when winning

yeah no I should deffo be asleep right now
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 09, 2014, 05:34:21 AM
Somehow, reading the entire game has caused me to forget everything that's happened in the game.

If you're asking about the post I just made, it's sort of a flow of thought thing. I wanted to jump on Dan and vote him for the thing Raikaria pointed out about protecting Dormio, but the fact that there didn't seem to have been enough people to vote Dormio unless he self-hammered kind of defeats the point. Plus pushing that point forward would be making bad use of early scumpair theories.

When I sheeped Rai's 83, The main point was that I didn't like the way he pushed CF7, but it's not strong enough material to make for a good lynch, and it seems to be one of only two things I don't like about his play this game. I'll clarify the other thing I dislike later in the day phase, if you can't already guess from the question I asked him in my above post.

I'll make better posts tomorrow thanks to sleep-brain-think-stuff and how it works.

Cut by Serela: :/
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 09, 2014, 06:09:53 AM
Quote
but there's precedence for him putting in a lot of effort as scum
only effort i saw as scum was him trying to spew meta logic in an anon game.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 09, 2014, 06:31:18 AM
so right now i dont really think raikaria or skypaladin are scum. even with sky paladins fabulous posts day 1 i find them not really that scummy just not really a good case. would not sheep him 10/10. raikaria because i feel like hes super obvious town and wouldnt lynch him.

tbh if i had any reason to vote serela is probably because of his super sheeping powers. 143 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102052.html#msg1102052) is probably the worst. im looking at the posts around it and i cant figure out why hes voting sky paladin but i think hes trying to sheep bard in some way ???
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 09, 2014, 06:36:25 AM
tbh i cant really see sky paladin as scum. for him to make that post and back track almost everything he has done this game sounds really unbelievable and i wouldnt expect town or scum to do it and since i cant see scum doing it hes probably town.

im also ready to eat my words at the end of this game.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 06:51:44 AM
false (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102067.html#msg1102067) action dan was the best chance at getting lynched, follow up was sky paladin. nnr dormio and cf7 were all tied. raikaria do you have anything else besides the fact that actiondan started the cf7 wagon?

I have no explanation other than I'm a moron and got my lines muddled and thought the 2 people on Sky were on Dormio. Point still stands; CF7 was not the 'most viable' lynch. Sky was.

And I do have something else. The fact Actiondan said 3~4 times not to vote Dormio. As I said, Serela called him out on it as well. Also there's the reason I was voting Actiondan ED1; when he patted CF7 on the back for making an absolutely awful case about 'Dormio is lurking' before we were even off Page 1, and basically told him to run with it.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 06:57:06 AM
Also I am also of the opinion that lynching SkyPaladin is not a good idea today. I don't re's usually agree with Zakeri's case on Sky either. Sky's 'drunkposted' in other games. I don't think it's confusion-fu, and I don't think he's being the derp that much. Especially when you remember Dormio was being a blockhead towards him.

Dormio continues to be non-present; which is not helping much. But he's V/LA so what can ya do except bellyache about it.

No matter how many times you say "I really wish Zakeri was here and talking" I can't do that until I'm awake and have read the game.

You slept for 24 hours?

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 06:58:54 AM
Gonna stay on Actiondan for the time being, still think he's my strongest scumread, although the more people talk about Zakeri the more my smile falls about him. I didn't much like his SkyPal case either.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 09, 2014, 07:15:36 AM
Quote
And I do have something else. The fact Actiondan said 3~4 times not to vote Dormio. As I said, Serela called him out on it as well. Also there's the reason I was voting Actiondan ED1; when he patted CF7 on the back for making an absolutely awful case about 'Dormio is lurking' before we were even off Page 1, and basically told him to run with it.
im not really going to roll with what happened on page one unless dan claimed scu....
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 08:03:10 AM
Technically it happened on Page 2.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 09, 2014, 09:32:43 AM
I was away all day with a copy of what I'd posted earlier, and tried to data crunch out something useful. 

Linked for huge. 

Page 1. (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n152/Sky_Paladin/mafia01.jpeg)
Page 2. (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n152/Sky_Paladin/mafia02.jpeg)
Page 3. (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n152/Sky_Paladin/mafia03.jpeg)

Analysis is good for day 1 only and I am aware it's just 'data'.  And data interpreted by me arbitrarily tried to turn into information so I'm not going to argue that IT MUST BE SO. 

Key results are:
Dan spent most of day 1 defending and inviting other players to attack other players, but made no cases of his own.  I recorded him defending nine times, specifically Dormio five times. 
Dormio didn't really do anything outside of pressuring myself or his cases on Serela and CF7, but he did make cases which puts him well ahead of a lot of other players. 
Zak did basically nothing, and only initiated pressure actions on NNR, Dan (who was also pressuring him), and Dormio.  He also defended Serela on two occasions.  Other than that he has no out going player interactions. 
Raikaria has good interactions with all players except Zakeri, who he's avoided on day 1, and while he did defend three players he only did so one time each, so there's no indication of buddying or misdirecting the lynch. 
Serela has a few odd things. 
1 - She called Dormio probably town and probably scum in the exact same sentence. 
2 - She defended NNR three times, once before anybody had even considered NNR. 
3 - She defended players eight times - 2x Dormio, 3x NNR, 1x Bard, 1x Dan, 1x Zak. 

I arbitrarily awarded players 2 points for making a case or attacking another players case (red action), 1 point for a post that applied pressure or 'did something' (blue action), and -1 point for defending or buddying other players.  I didn't include points for actions against players that were dead.  I removed myself from the analysis because I know I'm town and I was looking for scums, not trying to convince everybody.  I figured I'd trawl the data later, look for who I thought was scum, then work back to the posts numbers which I included on page 1 and make the appropriate case. 

The numbers are arbitrary, however, the net town worth;
Dan -1
Raikaria 5
Dormio 4
Zak 2
Serela 3
NNR 0

So if we were lynching based on 'town worth', I'd get rid of Dan, and then look at Zak or Serela. 

Odd stuff:
The only players excluding NNR who have had no interactions with each other (positive or negative) are Raikaria and Zakeri. 
Players who have mutual defences are Dan/Dormio (x1, with Dan defending Dormio an additional 4 times), Serela and Dan, and Serela and Zak. 

Actual scum hunting the good old fashioned way:

Serela's last three posts on day 1 that I considered exceptionally awful. 

143 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102052.html#msg1102052)
Quote
I'm too tired to reread Dormio enough to re-evaluate but he's certainly improved over before (he'd do this if he was scum too but I don't have the brainpower to think about it right now
This is the Dormio is scum but not scum sentence. 
Quote
Okay actually no, re-looking over the part of SkyPal's post Bard just singled out is, yeah, just from that it's way better of a lynch than NNR or CF7.
(Serela will later clarify that she meant Dormio, not Bard). 

For context, the point that Dormio singled out is:
Quote
I would policy lynch Serela for being useless and also for tunneling Dormio most of the game.  The vote was the laziest and she has done nothing to improve her vote except argue with Dormio.

I think Dormio is bad for focusing largely only on Serela's vote, when he could (and should) have drilled CF7 and ActionDan for their shitvotes.  This inconsistency alarms me.

I get the feeling Serela's vote is more because I would policy lynch her for uselessness and tunneling than actually perceiving me as scummy. 

Please also note that my apology to Dormio, earlier, directly matches the reason I said that Dormio was bad, here.  That is to say, I think Dormio should have drilled CF7 and ActionDan as well as Serela. 

This ends with Serela voting for me, this was in response to my targeting Serela, not Dormio, so for her to stick to that vote for 'reasons as stated earlier' makes me believe she is acting with a scum self-interest. 

153 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102065.html#msg1102065)
Let's look at that vote motivation some more. 
Quote
I thought Sky might suddenly turn into a viable wagon as a change of events, but if it doesn't then, yeah, I'm going to have to make my mind up about one of those three.
This is consistent with a scum Serela wagon hopping all over the place, as she has done all game...and pre-ceded by her 'inb4 wagon hopping' comment.  Sigh. 

Quote
It's probably bad that I don't even try to refute SkyPaladin anymore.
Discrediting other players arguments without actually addressing them in any way is scummy.  It's a handwave.  "Don't look at what this player is saying, they are an idiot." 

164 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102078.html#msg1102078)
Quote
This being said I'm not relating it to the situation at hand at all, and wow we have like 40 minutes left so is a SkyPal lynch seriously possible or? We need to consolidate.
It's clear at this point that Serela wants Sky dead for non scum-hunting reasons. 
Who has Sky been applying pressure to? 
I want to say that Serela is defending a scum!Dormio because of the sweet sweet taste of justice, but I think it's just scum!Serela. 

I'm actually just going to dump a whole bunch of Serela quotes here because they look bad and I want other players to see them. 
50 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101702.html#msg1101702)
Quote
tl;dr you're using this as an attack over me potentially doing something bad that I never actually did.
The specific situation was 'inb4 wagon jumping'.  Serela called Dormio out and said 'You should have waited until I had actually wagon jumped before voting and then you would have a case, but because you voted before I wagon jumped, there is no case'.  It's not a catch 22; if Dormio had never voted then Serela may never have wagon jumped.  Which is true.  However...Serela has been caught wagon jumping a couple of times now, so does that justify players voting her now? 

Same post;
Quote
It's literally only a minute notch above a total jokevote so I didn't really care and did it anyway.
So it is not actually a joke vote, then?

75 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101819.html#msg1101819)
Quote
Seriously, it was a joke, because I've actually been doing that on purpose for a few games to make RVS stop
Quote
I was referencing stuff I've been doing in recent games and in one case have concrete evidence of having been blatantly self-awarely doing them in those games, is enough to null this argument >_>; (Then again, the one with evidence I was scum, but scum should have even less reason to care about ending rvs, not more)
Quote
Considering the fact that I've been consistently dominating town whenever I roll scum for the past long while

79 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101828.html#msg1101828)
Quote
a lot of people have been saying we could lynch nnr, but I'm sorry, uh
Nobody had really been saying it.  I think one person (maybe me?) mentioned it because he was afk. 
Quote
I don't think this is enough to be able to declare someone lurking scummily and not just "oh well it was rvs and then I worked and slept (or vice versa)"

and... oh wow wait he hasn't posted since page 1? yeah I mean it would have been effortless for scum to make a comment on what was going on at any point of page 2
and bam, people start thinking about lynching NNR. 

That's the first of three defences of NNR, by the way. 

109 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101998.html#msg1101998)
Quote
After what nnr said yeah I guess a lurker lynch on him wouldn't be that terrible (At this point of the game if you have 5 minutes you can probably make an educated post) but, I'd still rather go down that path d2 instead and lynch someone else today.
Pushing for a lynch but on day 2. 

***

Anyway I wrote quite a lot so I am going to stop here since this is day 1 analysis and it is now day 2. 

From my analysis/scum reading, I'd currently pick two out of Dan/Zak/Serela. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 01:08:16 PM
My head hurts looking at graphs and reading the handwriting. I'd argue that I did a pretty direct attack on Actiondan, but w/e.

Yeah, me and Zakeri haven't been talking much, although Zak was happy to sheep me D1 so does that count as an 'interaction'? I'm pretty null on Zak overall right now. People have some valid points but there's nt really much which makes me swing either way decisively with my opinion on him right now. Except his case on Sky was pretty poor, as I mentioned before.

You do have good points on Serela which I would like to see how Serela responds to. Those I see as legitimate concerns, and yeah, that recent !scumSerela game he did wagonhop a fair bit.

I like how Dan's interaction graph is almost entirely green arrows of defense, with all of one red arrow [Serela] and my/Zakeri's pressure. Just shows how little scumhunting he did D1.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2014, 01:44:21 PM
Quote
It's clear at this point that Serela wants Sky dead for non scum-hunting reasons. 
We had FOURTY MINUTES LEFT, iirc the other wagons (other than Dan who was and is townie) were still at like 1 vote each, and I still think the other wagons were really really meh. SkyPal's logic looked too strange so I interpreted it as "This seems more likely to come from scum than be a legitimate town thought" and voted on it. In retrospect, that's not very uncommon from SkyPal, but... I also still think the other wagons (e.g. CF7, NNR) were really, really meh.

Quote
The specific situation was 'inb4 wagon jumping'.  Serela called Dormio out and said 'You should have waited until I had actually wagon jumped before voting and then you would have a case, but because you voted before I wagon jumped, there is no case'.
Um no, that wasn't about wagon jumping, that was Dormio quoting the "do something stupid to end rvs" thing and saying I was going to use it as justification to do something scummy.

anyway I need to go do other things atm but I don't work today so I'll totally actually get around to scumhunting
You also mixed up quotes about jokevote and about the "do something stupid" being a joke to make it look like I was contradicting myself, when I was talking about completely different things.

Quote
Nobody had really been saying it.  I think one person (maybe me?) mentioned it because he was afk. 
I literally just got out of bed so I'm not checking this very hard right now, but if you were the only person who said it, then you must have said it a whole lot by then >_>; There's no way it had only been brought up once by then.

Quote
That's the first of three defences of NNR, by the way.
Are you implying this is scummy? What the hell. A nnr lynch would have been awful and I am nowhere near the only person who said it was a non-option.

Quote
Pushing for a lynch but on day 2. 
Uh, duh. If NNR had still done almost nothing D2 then of course we would have lynched him. That's the point where it'd go into scummy lurking.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2014, 01:45:30 PM
Quote
anyway I need to go do other things atm but I don't work today so I'll totally actually get around to scumhunting
You also mixed up quotes about jokevote and about the "do something stupid" being a joke to make it look like I was contradicting myself, when I was talking about completely different things.
h...how did that first sentence in this quote end up there

I could have sworn that was the end of the post ;_;

it was supposed to be at the end
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 09, 2014, 02:21:41 PM
Howdy.
I think that, for my own sanity's sake, I'm going to ignore Sky Palladium's posts for the time being.
It's also past midnight but I'd just like to say that I'm not really liking Raikaria's more recent posts.
I'll post more once I get some sleep and stuff so see you guys then.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 09, 2014, 03:43:20 PM
First I like Rawr.  He's masculine and his posts make me swoon.

Second taking the painstaking effort to read Sky's 191 (which I didn't read more than a passing glance because MY EYES) and the arguably way more traumatizing paper and pen version in 227 I disagree with about everything he concludes or otherwise even says.  Noteworthy from 227, I think his town worth system is flawed and a useless exercise.  I think his attack on Serela is flaccid.  And to answer the question he posed earlier to me: I think Serela is strong town.

This is an example of a telling excerpt concerning Serela: 
I get the feeling Serela's vote is more because I would policy lynch her for uselessness and tunneling than actually perceiving me as scummy. 

Please also note that my apology to Dormio, earlier, directly matches the reason I said that Dormio was bad, here.  That is to say, I think Dormio should have drilled CF7 and ActionDan as well as Serela. 

This ends with Serela voting for me, this was in response to my targeting Serela, not Dormio, so for her to stick to that vote for 'reasons as stated earlier' makes me believe she is acting with a scum self-interest. 

It's way more believable that Serela voted for you due to his stated reason of looking at Dormio's #139 and perceiving a contradiction in what Dormio highlighted in your post.  It's an absolute unsubstantiated opinion that you're using to conclude that Serela acted with any self-interest here.  (also I can't find anywhere where the "so for her to stick to that vote for 'reasons as stated earlier'" comes from.  Serela never said this after he voted you D1).

Concerning the 'I thought Sky might turn into a viable wagon,' that's in response to my post #152 which directly challenges the viability of your wagon D1.  It's like an addendum instead of what it looks like when you present it in juxtaposition with the above, which is an entirely different reason.  Of course your complaint is 'evidence for scum vote hopper' which is a complete non-issue.

The rest of your problems I'm not going over and apparently Serela is tackling some of them herself but they aren't concerning in the least.

In regard to your "data analysis," it's pretty laughable you'd assign point values to "attacks" "pressure" and "defense" with a point system of 2/1/-1, count up each, and add to get a total that means anything to you what-so-ever.  Firstly you have labeled a section "Scummy defends" which is obvious from your point value system but the key is why do you have defense as scummy?  Because it's not. at all.  Second at least for my case it seems the math is wrong since you have me as "pressuring" NNR and Zak once each but defending Dormio 5 times Serela once, so it should be 2-6 = -4 instead of -1.  Thrid, what makes you think scum wouldn't apply "attacks" or "pressure" or in equal measure as any townie, they have an agenda to mislynch people which necessitates both these things.  Forth, despite defending Dormio 5 times which apparently stunned you, the most crucial "defense" I have made was yours at the end of D1 which basically led to you not getting lynched.  Was it scummy of me to defend you?  You tell me.

Both posts are jokes imo.  One of the best indicators is the amalgamation of the RVS votes which indeed are trivial and a waste of space.  191 is mostly IIOA because the sidenotes are basically just quick sloppy compressions of posts in order to tabulate arrows and points for your "data analysis" which is complete crap.  The only thing that comes out of it is the Serela bit in 227 which I find unimpressive.  Nothing really about me or Zak despite stating that you're leaning Zak as scum and the cliffs notes in 191 don't stand for much since their purpose is limited to tabulation.

I'll go on about Zak/Raikaria in a different post this is getting quite long
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 04:34:05 PM
It's also past midnight but I'd just like to say that I'm not really liking Raikaria's more recent posts.

I don't like my more recent posts.

I've seen nothing that makes me think someone is more scummy than what I think Actiondan is, and people being inactive dosen't help develop conversations and cases which could help my judgement.

Anyway, not got much time ATM so I'll get to checking timestamps and stuff like Serela's going on about tomorrow morning probobly.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 09, 2014, 04:34:48 PM
I don't like my more recent posts.

To elaborate, my posts recently have been empty because nothing is happening so I'm just chasing my tail.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 09, 2014, 11:13:02 PM
Dan, I'm not really interested in who you think is town or how bad somebody's case may be.  I'm interested in who do you think is scum and why

I'll note that you don't disagree that you have been defending players, only that the nature of the defence is not scummy. 

Let's elucidate on why I think it is scummy. 

#1 - It's easy for players to defend each other.  It's harder to make a case.  Anybody can defend anybody at any time, but it's harder for scum to make a case than town because scum have to lie at some point.  Therefore, we value scum hunting and case analysis (and even case destruction)* over defending as towny effort. 

#2 - Related to part 1, defending other players does not progress a case towards finding scum.  It's a way to appear very busy and fake content.  It's actually a non content post. 

#3 - Defending another player is inherently anti-town as it promotes the idea that a specific player is valuable to another specific player.  The easiest reason for that is that they are scum buddies.  When we see players mutually defending each other (as you and Serela just did, when he stated you were town and continued to be so in his response to me), it's especially concerning. 

#4 - Players are capable of defending themselves.  If you do it for them, that player may not post at all, and we miss out a valuable chance to see their intent. 

#5 - Defending other players often makes the defended player like the defending player, so they feel less inclined to make cases or lynch that player in the future.  Scum know this and exploit it. 

#6 - Excessive defending is known as buddying, and is often a scum tactic to get the defended player lynched should the defender flip at some point, when town looks back on interactions earlier in the game. 

*The line between 'defending' and 'case dismantling' is pretty tough to define, because we do consider chainsaw defending as a scum tell.  It's up to individual players to make their own decisions and scum will want to portray it as innocent, whereas town will be looking for scumtraits.  Your defence of Serela, for example, is a chainsaw defend because you are attacking my analysis of the data but didn't challenge the data itself by going to the referenced posts and disproving a point or two. 

It's fine to defend yourself because town want to avoid being lynched as much as scum do.  So at worst, it's a null tell.  Simply defending yourself is actually the worst strategy, as it promotes town to randomly consolidate on some other person.  It's better to make a case on another player that is more scummy than you. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 09, 2014, 11:15:10 PM
I haven't read the Rai/Dan wall in great detail and I have no time right now.  My feeling from the initial pass is that Raikaria is largely correct (although I note Dr Rawr pointed out some errors) and that two players independently came to roughly the same conclusion.  I will hold off on voting until I have some time to parse this properly/respond to Serela and Dan. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 09, 2014, 11:17:22 PM
Oh, I almost forgot. 

Zakeri, were you role blocked?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 09, 2014, 11:44:46 PM
I can't say one way or the other if I was roleblocked. I wasn't given a message, and I don't have a role that provides me with results. I do agree that if Bard roleblocked anyone it would have been me, though.

Actual post coming soon.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2014, 11:54:19 PM
Quote
because we do consider chainsaw defending as a scum tell.
It's not, I don't, and if most people do they shouldn't. It's only scummy if the related people flip scum. Even the mafia wiki page on chainsaw says that, after further research, they realized it doesn't make it any more likely they're scum unless that's the case.

Defending people is not anti-town because you don't want your town reads lynched.

That people should defend themselves is true, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't also defend them if they deem it necessary. It's usually via case dismantling regardless, and if the case is bad, it really shouldn't matter in most cases who dismantles it.

That it "makes a player seem busy" is true, but that still doesn't make the act inherently scummy. Sure, a scum CAN do it to provide content, but that doesn't make it's scummy if anyone does. It's also not quite the same as a non-content post (although it's not as pro-town as scumhunting, but it's not like you can't do both, regardless that I haven't today so far) because trying to guide the lynch away from people you don't think are scum should definitely be on town's agenda, because it's basically the exact same as your huge goal of getting players that you think are scummy, lynched.

Quote
It's better to make a case on another player that is more scummy than you. 
well it's best to do -both-, especially considering that often the reality is casing another player has already been done to the extent of the person's ability so you can't really do it any harder
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 10, 2014, 12:33:40 AM
I'm in full agreement with Serela here. A Large part of my vote is actually in part Process of Elimination, which is strongly related to townies being allowed to defend townies. I know my casing on Sky is pretty bad, but I feel like it's the strongest of the ones I still feel like have a good chance of winding up scum.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 10, 2014, 12:58:19 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Zakeri (1): Dr Rawr
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (4): ActionDan, Sky Paladin, Serela, Dormio
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

There are about 26 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2014, 02:38:56 AM
Howdy, pt. II.
Just going to put it out there that I still haven't read Sky Palladium's posts and I'm probably not going to. Anyway.

I think I'm pretty cool with this.
##Vote Raikaria
Making another post now and stuff.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2014, 03:09:54 AM
First of all, let's start with what Raikaria has done today.
Most of it is building a case on ActionDan, which I have no qualms with.
The problem arises from the case itself, which revolves mostly around ActionDan's actions at the end of Day 1.
Now I'm pretty sure that it's been brought up by other people, so I won't go on for too long about how Raikaria's version of events don't seem to correlate to what actually happened.
He seems to actively ignore important aspects of the game state and cherry pick only the actions that he thinks will help him and present them without even bothering to consider how they are affected by the context.
For example, this shit:
I am not happy about the fact that we lynched CF7. Especially since it was following Actiondan. For example, a key part of Actiondan's case was a change in opinion on Dormio between #59 and #86.

The thing is, this is 27 posts. That's only just less than half of what existed at the time of the first post. More than half when you take out the mod posts. Opinions and game state can change, especially when there is 50% more content.
It's like, the fuck is this shit?
Raikaria completely ignores ActionDan's reasoning and the like and instead focuses only on the action.
Why would Raikaria feel the need to do this?
Is it because he knows his own case is bullshit since he's trying to make it up as scum?

Like, it happens further as Raikaria tries to argue that Dan is so scummy for lynching CF7.
Raikaria ignores the other people that voted for CF7, the case on CF7, and the fact that he himself was saying that CF7 was bad for the lulz vote on me and never bothered to update this opinion.
What's with this super selective memory and/or attention span?
Are you really grasping at that many straws for a case?

and honestly if you flip scum, I'd go after Dormio next.
I also really don't like this whole lining up lynches business.
Like, by doing this, you basically build a case to attack me instead of Dan today without actually building a case.
Again, are you that desperate for somewhere to put your vote?

Raikaria's most recent posts don't make me happier either.
Point still stands; CF7 was not the 'most viable' lynch. Sky was.
I never knew that mafia was about trying to lynch whoever is "most viable" as opposed to whoever is "most scummy".
I guess I've been doing it wrong this whole time.
I don't understand why you're trying to build a case like this.
The only explanation that makes sense to me is that you are scum and therefore know that the people you are building cases on are not scum and are therefore looking for anything that even looks bad in order to make yourself look like you have a solid vote for the day.

My head hurts looking at graphs and reading the handwriting. I'd argue that I did a pretty direct attack on Actiondan, but w/e.
I also really, really don't like this.
Like, why are you trying to justify yourself in regards to Sky Palladium's bullshit interactions chart which he himself has stated as arbitrary.
Mafia isn't a game that you can puzzle out like that, who would bother playing if it were?
However, you are acknowledging it.
Do you want to know why I think that you are acknowledging it?
It's because, in correlation with what I've said above, I think that you are getting desperate for cases since you aren't sure of how to build a genuine one as scum.
The interactions chart gives you an easy excuse to basically vote for whoever you want.
After all, any interaction can be seen as both positive and negative and it's all about what arbitrary numbers you want to stick onto it.
It really makes for a convenient replacement for an actual case, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2014, 03:29:40 AM
Dan and Dormio are my townie friends. I shall take solace in this fact even though I cannot for the life of me come to a solid decision on anyone else here. At least I'm waging a war against bad logic, but, if you pay any attention it should be p.clear I haven't done basically any scumhunting. It's just not working out for me this game >_>; It's awful and I hope I don't get lynched for it d3 and lose the game for town in lylo.

Raikaria and SkyPal repeatedly use logic that is just wrong, or at least kind of weird, in order to reach their conclusions. They do this as town regularly, though. I want to vote them because it looks scummy, but I know they also do this as town, and it's hard to tell whether the logic is town!bad or scum!bad. Rawr hasn't said enough for me to get a read and Zakeri... I want to say he hasn't said enough either but in reality that actually isn't true. I'm rereading him right now though and it's still not going anywhere. Useless!Serela hasn't reared it's ugly head (past d1) in awhile, I guess it was about time >_>

Resorting to plan b and using my awkward touchy-feely scumhunting ability (which is probably better explained as "SUPER META TIER IS THIS WHAT BEING PESCO FEELS LIKE?") on Zak's posts tells me he's probably town, but I don't feel as strong about this result as I'd like to in order actually declare him town.

Man where is Bard when I need someone to sheep, it's my turn to do that now. Wait, he'd probably be telling me to lynch Zak. At least I narrowed it down to voting Raikaria or SkyPal, but I don't have any real justification for voting either other than the reason I already said is something they do as town >_>;

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 04:30:14 AM
So I was most likely going to vote Raikaria for completely disregarding #201 despite mulling whatever over he was claiming to mull over and still thinking his best scumread was me along with the snipe about me doing little scum hunting.  Zak's case on Sky is at least defensible.

But then these come along:

Oh, I almost forgot. 

Zakeri, were you role blocked?
I can't say one way or the other if I was roleblocked. I wasn't given a message, and I don't have a role that provides me with results. I do agree that if Bard roleblocked anyone it would have been me, though.

Actual post coming soon.

This is full retard.  Certainly of Sky Paladin with the shittiest question imaginable, but for Zak to answer in a way that belies himself being not a cop/tracker (though possibly a jailkeeper) is beyond the pale.  No one says this.  as town. ever.  Literally freely giving away information to scum (if we are in the jailkeeper scenario only a jailkeeper would even think to say this) for the sake of answering the dumbest and most pointless of questions.

##Vote: Zakeri

This is in my opinion practically a confession.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2014, 04:34:07 AM
I agree that it wasn't good play to give away whether or not he's any of the PRs since ~*~semi-open setup~*~ but it's really easy to imagine someone not thinking it through hard enough before responding to "Did Bard roleblock you last night?" with "I dunno, I wouldn't get a message even if he did."
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 10, 2014, 04:35:05 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Raikaria (1): Dormio
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (2): Sky Paladin, Serela
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

There are about 22.5 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 04:38:27 AM
And then I forgot doctor.  which does overlap with tracker.  in a mafia goon / mafia goon scenario.

still pretty shitty.

@Serela I'd never do it as town.  I might do it as scum if I were wanting to claim doctor/jailkeeper down the line, or else maybe VT for some reason and make it look more believable.  I am not sure, but I do know I'd never do it as town.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2014, 06:22:32 AM
im not even going to humor a sky paladin lynch for the rest of this game
im waiting to eat my words at the end of the game if i wrong

I'm in full agreement with Serela here. A Large part of my vote is actually in part Process of Elimination, which is strongly related to townies being allowed to defend townies. I know my casing on Sky is pretty bad, but I feel like it's the strongest of the ones I still feel like have a good chance of winding up scum.
using the excuse of PoE to force a case on sky paladin is what im getting from this. actiondan lets take this guy down  >:D
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:14:25 AM
Like, it happens further as Raikaria tries to argue that Dan is so scummy for lynching CF7.
Raikaria ignores the other people that voted for CF7, the case on CF7, and the fact that he himself was saying that CF7 was bad for the lulz vote on me and never bothered to update this opinion.
...
I also really don't like this whole lining up lynches business.
...
Like, by doing this, you basically build a case to attack me instead of Dan today without actually building a case.
Again, are you that desperate for somewhere to put your vote?
...
Raikaria's most recent posts don't make me happier either.I never knew that mafia was about trying to lynch whoever is "most viable" as opposed to whoever is "most scummy".

1: CF7 started the wagon. He made the initial case. He actively lied and spouted nonsense about it to encourage people to consolidate on it. As I said before: Serela called him out on it as well D1.

2: Actiondan was actively defending you and discouraging people from voting you. It is perfectly reasonable to assume in that case that you have a good chance of being a scumbuddy.

3: Wait what? I've already built my case on Dan. I've hardly even made a case on you except 'Dormio's not been that active and Dormio is being defended by Dan a lot'

4: I'm half tempted to use one of your earlier laughing GIFs that you used on Sky here; but I'm too mature to sink to that level. This is a complete and utter misrep. I am not saying 'Actiondan is scum for pushing a lynch with less people on it.'. I am saying 'Actiondan is scum for constantly pushing lynch viability as the reason that others should switch to CF7, rather than using his own points, and ignoring the fact his lynch is NOT the most viable.'

Firstly, I am calling Actiondan out for justifying his aggression on pushing the CF7 lynch based on 'other votes not being viable'. As I already said; Serela mentioned it at the time (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102065.html#msg1102065). Due to Actiondan's base of aggression being how 'viable' the CF7 lynch was over other lynches with the same, if not more people, voting for them.

Secondly, it's consolidation. Everyone is rushing to get a lynch. Actiondan spouting about viability makes sense until you realize he's spouting nonsense and saying 'This lynch is more viable. Ignore the fact other people have more votes on them. By the way, I'm not voting Dormio ever and I'd rather have an NL than that.'

And yet you somehow think that it's logical to turn this around and say:

Raikaria's most recent posts don't make me happier either.I never knew that mafia was about trying to lynch whoever is "most viable" as opposed to whoever is "most scummy".
I guess I've been doing it wrong this whole time.
I don't understand why you're trying to build a case like this.
The only explanation that makes sense to me is that you are scum and therefore know that the people you are building cases on are not scum and are therefore looking for anything that even looks bad in order to make yourself look like you have a solid vote for the day.

Maybe you should tell that to Actiondan; hmm?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:17:29 AM
Dormio's great wall of defending Actiondan makes me borderline convinced the scumteam is now Dormio/Actiondan, by the way. Like; half of their content in the entire game is defending each other.

Especially as said great wall contains a massive misrep.

And I do know how to fool everyone as scum. I seem to recall at least one scum game I had where my scumteam died D1 and N1, and I still made it to LYLO. [Unfortunetly by that point roles had confirmed me as scum]
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:18:40 AM
Quote
1: CF7 started the wagon. He made the initial case. He actively lied and spouted nonsense about it to encourage people to consolidate on it. As I said before: Serela called him out on it as well D1.

Actiondan. Not CF7.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
Also this would explain Actiondan's vote on Dormio in RVS; followed by nudgeing CF7 to join the wagon so early; when he knew Dormio wouldn't be lynched. Set up a little bus early to throw them off.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2014, 01:32:59 PM
Hey, Raikaria, here's a little tip from me to you.
You know that thing where you build associations and the like.
It's literally useless until you have relevant flips.
Like, I know that you're probably going to try to use this very post as more ~damning evidence~ that Dan and I are the scum team that you're looking for, but I feel the need to say this.
This also applies to you, Sky Palladium, since you went crazy with the whole creating scum teams thing on Day 1.

Of course, this doesn't apply if you realize what you're doing is absolute bull and have no other choice because you're having difficulty coming up with anything resembling a proper case because you're scum, but could you try just a little bit harder?
It really is quite annoying to see that this pathetic association crap is the best that you can come up with as scum.
Like, here I was, hoping for members of scum to be a little bit more competent and this is the best that you can do?
Anyway, with that out of the way, let's address the rest of your hilarious post.

1: CF7ActionDan started the wagon. He made the initial case. He actively lied and spouted nonsense about it to encourage people to consolidate on it. As I said before: Serela called him out on it as well D1.
(I'm assuming that your responses correlate to the lines you've quoted from me, feel free to correct me if you're referring to something else)
This doesn't change the fact that you are not disputing what I said about you.
You are still failing to account for the actual case on CF7. For example, mine.
Are you saying that the CF7 lynch went through purely due to scaremongering from Dan?
Because I'm pretty sure that's not what happened and the fact that you're trying to use this as the crux of your case against Dan makes me think that your case is bullshit coming from scum.

2: Actiondan was actively defending you and discouraging people from voting you. It is perfectly reasonable to assume in that case that you have a good chance of being a scumbuddy.
lel. I don't really think that there's anything for me to say here.

3: Wait what? I've already built my case on Dan. I've hardly even made a case on you except 'Dormio's not been that active and Dormio is being defended by Dan a lot'
Are you even keeping track of your own post?
"It is perfectly reasonable to assume in that case that you have a good chance of being a scumbuddy."
You think that Dan is scum.
If Dan is scum you think that I am scum by virtue of Dan being scum.
This gives you an excuse to vote for me without a case today if my lynch becomes viable for whatever reason.
So, yeah, the fact that you are giving yourself the option of easily voting me while not having to actually bother building a case is pretty scummy.
So thanks for proving my point I guess?

4: I'm half tempted to use one of your earlier laughing GIFs that you used on Sky here; but I'm too mature to sink to that level. This is a complete and utter misrep. I am not saying 'Actiondan is scum for pushing a lynch with less people on it.'. I am saying 'Actiondan is scum for constantly pushing lynch viability as the reason that others should switch to CF7, rather than using his own points, and ignoring the fact his lynch is NOT the most viable.'
I am pretty sure that I'm not really understanding what you're saying here and I may have misunderstood the original premise.
Can you clarify this for me?

"Ermahgawd, Dormio is so scummy for chainsaw defending Dan right now! Those two must obviously be scum together!"
I'm pretty sure that this is going to be your response, so I'm going to say the following assuming that this is your response.
Maybe, next time, you should try not being scum so that you can build an actual case instead of the cheap imitation of one that you're presenting right now.
Also, what I said above about associative reads being useless until there are relevant flips. (I think that Serela said something similar to this somewhere but whatever)

Anyway, I'm going to play video games and then go to sleep.
Ciao.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2014, 01:34:26 PM
Quote
Also this would explain Actiondan's vote on Dormio in RVS; followed by nudgeing CF7 to join the wagon so early; when he knew Dormio wouldn't be lynched. Set up a little bus early to throw them off.
This is just paranoia. RVS isn't going to make anyone think anything >_>

Also, Raikaria, did you look at the part where analysis showed that Dormio actually seriously wasn't viable even though he had more votes and it seemed like he should be? It turns out that was actually true due to where the AFK votes were (aka on Dan) You attacking Dan on going after viable lynches over scumhunting doesn't really seem to have any legitimate basis. I am going to need you to pull out examples of where Dan did these supposed things so that I can more accurately refute them.

cut by dorms
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:01:15 PM
Of course you're not going to admit that taking this line completely out of context:

Quote
Point still stands; CF7 was not the 'most viable' lynch. Sky was.

And saying this about it:

I never knew that mafia was about trying to lynch whoever is "most viable" as opposed to whoever is "most scummy".
I guess I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

Is a misrep.

You only need to look at any part of my case on Actiondan to see the context of it.

Such as my entire #195 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102522.html#msg1102522)

You're attempting to sell that as me saying 'we lynch based on viability all the time'. I'm only using Lynch Viability as part of my case because that's how Dan got CF7 mislynched. And he did so while ignoring everything else.

This is a massive misrep. Large enough that I'm seriously considering voting you over Actiondan, but as far as I'm concerned you're both scum anyway, the order of lynching hardly matters.

Serela; did you forget that you yourself called out Actiondan at the end of Day 1? It wasn't just the Dormio wagon he was ignoring, and I'm certain NNR at least could have been lynched.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:03:12 PM
Associative reads are not useless when you two seem to be tag-teaming everything and covering each others rears all game long. You two have hardly even done anything else.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:04:06 PM
And Serela; it's not Paranoia. It's not strange for scum to bus each other in the earlygame to throw off scumbuddy theories. Especially when Dormio was put at L-1 and Actiondan encouraged CF7 to vote Dormio.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:06:45 PM
Also Serela; I already posted those examples. 195; I think.

Now I'm more amazed at the frankly awful case Dormio is attempting to turn around on me which includes misrepping. Also, I'd like to echo one of Dormio's earlier posts which he used to justification for his vote on Serela:

This one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101684.html#msg1101684)

Now look here and tell me; is Dormio not doing that exact thing?

"Ermahgawd, Dormio is so scummy for chainsaw defending Dan right now! Those two must obviously be scum together!"
I'm pretty sure that this is going to be your response, so I'm going to say the following assuming that this is your response.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 02:08:17 PM
I have a lot to catch up so rather than post it in one giant wall that nobody likes to read I'm going to post it in chunks. 

A point I see a lot of is 'worry about scum partners after you actually have a scum'. 

I think that's incorrect.  In the game where Schezo cop-gambitted NNR, I'd picked out the masons pair as scum buddies.  If it's possible to pick up partners in crime, then you should absolutely do it.  There's no masons in this game so looking at player interactions and associations, in particular for scummy associations, is a very valid strategy.  We want to know the intent behind player votes and actions.  Considering them in isolation is one tool.   Considering them with potential scum partners is another. 

Re:  Serela.  I'm basically seeing Serela town clear without reasons anybody who says they think Serela is town, and she thinks anybody who says she is scum is scum.  Since Raikaria and I are the only ones really pegging her as scum at the moment, that's probably why Serela reads everybody as town but the two of us.  More on this later, I think. 

Re:  Zak - I was prepared to sheep Bard on Zak because of one of Zak's posts being truly awful, until Bard used ad homein attacks, which made me reconsider my stance on Bard (and therefore elect not to sheep him).  OK let's get to the main part. 

Also I kind of handwave ignore Dormio's case on Raikaria because it relies on Raikaria making his case on ActionDan after I posted my stuff.  However, Raikaria made his case and voted at the start of the phase, and I posted my junk about halfway through.  I'll dismantle it in detail in a jiffy. 

Note I don't think people making bad cases is scummy, I think people using bad logic or false...situations...is scummy.  I said it in my second post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101549.html#msg1101549) 

Quote
There will come a day when Shrine Maiden will lynch a player, not for the quality of their cases, but for their lack of content or failure to explain their vote

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:12:47 PM
Quote
Are you saying that the CF7 lynch went through purely due to scaremongering from Dan?
Because I'm pretty sure that's not what happened and the fact that you're trying to use this as the crux of your case against Dan makes me think that your case is bullshit coming from scum.

Forgot this.

I'm pretty sure it is what happened. Dan kept refusing to vote for other people; encourageing people to vote CF7 by writing off at least equally-viable lynches as 'unviable' and we lynched the wrong person.

Unless the people who consolidated on CF7 would like to explain if it was anything except Actiondan's actions that made them do so. Because the thing is, if they were convinced by your case, and they were not, they would have voted CF7 after the case, not a load of badgering from Actiondan later.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:14:19 PM
Also; Sky; I think Serela is null. She's town by default I guess since there's 2 scum in the setup due to it being 7/2; and I'm pretty set on those 2 being Dan and Dormio.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 02:22:58 PM
And now you got me calling Serela a 'she' too. Dangit Sky.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 02:26:34 PM
Cutting my next wall to add:  I did vote CF7 over Dormio because of sheeping Dan.  More to come. 

I don't really know Serela's gender, but she has a female looking avatar and a female sounding name and seems to want to identify as female, so there you go.  I misidentified Bard as girl because Bardiche + girly avatar but he corrected me. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 02:35:04 PM
Serela, as stated:  I think you town clear players who see you as town, and see players who think you are scum, as scum.  I think you're allowing yourself to be manipulated by your emotions.  It's not scummy, it's just a playstyle observation you may wish to reflect on. 

However, I'll respond to your points. 

229 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102788.html#msg1102788)

1 - "It's clear at this point that Serela wants Sky dead for non scum-hunting reasons." 
You responded with, "We had FOURTY MINUTES LEFT", and " "This seems more likely to come from scum than be a legitimate town thought" " because the logic seemed 'strange'. 

As we recently discovered, I'm from a significantly different age background than all of you (apparently I'm ancient), so this might account for why we see things so differently.  Also, I'm a software engineer that believes people are just inconveniently shaped numbers, and if I can only figure out the right algorithm to stuff you in, I should be able to put in input x and get output y.  I think the reason my logic appears 'strange' is because I did statistical analysis over a decade ago, played mafia for about that long, and come from a different environment where I am one of the top scum hunters.  I did it using spread sheets and graphs.  What works there doesn't work here, but I'm doing my best to find out the right tools for the job. 

I concede that with less than two hours left, it's reasonable to consider consolidation; however we are now far in to the next day phase, so it's time to consider your scum picks on something more than 'somebody we could have consolidated on to in the previous lynch phase'.  You made a number of attempts to persuade other players to lynch me without making a case; and you continue to do so during this day phase.  What's the actual reason you want me lynched?  Who else do you see as scumbuddies with me?  If I flip town, who do you think would be scum? 

Point 2 - Serela has or has not been wagon jumping. 
You said;
Quote
Um no, that wasn't about wagon jumping, that was Dormio quoting the "do something stupid to end rvs" thing and saying I was going to use it as justification to do something scummy.
I'm totally saying it was about wagon jumping, and even if it is not, I am now accusing you of wagon jumping.  Perhaps it relates to the start of my post.  What do you think? 

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You also mixed up quotes about jokevote and about the "do something stupid" being a joke to make it look like I was contradicting myself, when I was talking about completely different things.
I don't understand.  You did or did not jokevote or did or did not do something stupid, deliberately, to try to end RVS? 

Point 3 - Defending NNR
You said;
"A nnr lynch would have been awful and I am nowhere near the only person who said it was a non-option."
and (re: nobody said about lynching NNR)
"but if you were the only person who said it, then you must have said it a whole lot by then >_>; There's no way it had only been brought up once by then."

The first mention of an NNR lynch was Bardiche in #72. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101814.html#msg1101814)
The second is me in #73. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101815.html#msg1101815)
The third is me again in #78. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101826.html#msg1101826)
Your first defence of NNR is immediately after in #79. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101828.html#msg1101828)

FOR CONTEXT;
You said this (in #79, which I quoted in the earlier post which you are responding to)
"a lot of people have been saying we could lynch nnr, but I'm sorry, uh"
I said, "Nobody had really been saying it.  I think one person (maybe me?) mentioned it because he was afk."

What do you think about it now? 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2014, 03:22:04 PM
Serela, as stated:  I think you town clear players who see you as town, and see players who think you are scum, as scum.  I think you're allowing yourself to be manipulated by your emotions.  It's not scummy, it's just a playstyle observation you may wish to reflect on. 
This is purely a coincidence. I actually haven't done basically any real scumhunting in this game and I'm floored that people are townreading me anyway, but that's beside the point. My reads in this game have no relation to the people's reads on myself, apart from maybe the fact that I'd think scum would be trying to mislynch me right now because holy shit. They'll probably do it tomorrow though, so whatever.

I have to get ready for work (which I put off until way too late again fffff) so I can't say much other than I seriously don't agree with any of Raikaria's viewpoints of the game at all. It's kind of awkward to have "BUT YOU SAID THIS" brought up on me by Raikaria repeatedly when I've cleared changed my mind since then. I'd refute Raikaria's stuff properly but I gotta go; if it's still necessary when I'm back from work tho I'll probably do it then!

reading skypal's post right before I leave and oh hey there's someone finally complaining at me for being useless I think :V Are you really asking me what I think now about defending NNR d1? Or do you mean his slot? Holy crap where are rawr's posts? That slot might actually not be a bad lynch at this rate, but I don't really think we're going that way today and that's alright with me atm. NNR was still a non-option lynch d1 if that's what you were asking.

The joke stuff is that the "doing something stupid" was a legitimate joke, and Dormio tried to use it against me saying that I was going to invoke it as a scummy defense to excuse scummy actions from myself (in this case probably the vote on Dormio in rvs) which I had never shown actual intention of doing. Anyway I really have to leave, I should learn to manage my before-work time better since I'm probably gonna be late.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2014, 03:22:58 PM
Quote
cleared changed
clearly changed*
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 03:26:08 PM
Dan, I'm not really interested in who you think is town or how bad somebody's case may be.  I'm interested in who do you think is scum and why

I'll note that you don't disagree that you have been defending players, only that the nature of the defence is not scummy. 

Let's elucidate on why I think it is scummy. 

#1 - It's easy for players to defend each other.  It's harder to make a case.  Anybody can defend anybody at any time, but it's harder for scum to make a case than town because scum have to lie at some point.  Therefore, we value scum hunting and case analysis (and even case destruction)* over defending as towny effort. 

#2 - Related to part 1, defending other players does not progress a case towards finding scum.  It's a way to appear very busy and fake content.  It's actually a non content post. 

#3 - Defending another player is inherently anti-town as it promotes the idea that a specific player is valuable to another specific player.  The easiest reason for that is that they are scum buddies.  When we see players mutually defending each other (as you and Serela just did, when he stated you were town and continued to be so in his response to me), it's especially concerning. 

#4 - Players are capable of defending themselves.  If you do it for them, that player may not post at all, and we miss out a valuable chance to see their intent. 

#5 - Defending other players often makes the defended player like the defending player, so they feel less inclined to make cases or lynch that player in the future.  Scum know this and exploit it. 

#6 - Excessive defending is known as buddying, and is often a scum tactic to get the defended player lynched should the defender flip at some point, when town looks back on interactions earlier in the game. 

Your defence of Serela, for example, is a chainsaw defend because you are attacking my analysis of the data but didn't challenge the data itself by going to the referenced posts and disproving a point or two. 

Before I get into your 6 points about defense on which I have a starkly different perspective, my scum reads are Zakeri and Raikaria and to a slightly lesser extent, you.  Reasons for Zakeri/Raikaria have been stated by me previously before your post.  You are a P.O.E candidate and because I don't assign any value into your posts what-so-ever, as in, they are mostly IIOA and the only attempt at some kind of insight was the serela case, which sucked.  Also I think Rawr, Serela, and Dormio are town.  And of them I think only Dormio has the slimmest chance to be scum.

And yes I don't disagree I have defended players (the most poignant example is again yourself at the end of D1), though looking back I'd only count posts #112 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102001.html#msg1102001), #114 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102006.html#msg1102006), and #151 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102062.html#msg1102062) as "defenses" of Dormio so where you count 5, I count 3. 

On to your points:

#1-2 Marginally at best is it harder for scum to make a case than town.  Also how they treat their scum buddy(-ies) is reversed following this logic: it'd be easier to make a case on them than defend them.  In actuality, the effort that goes into defending someone is in fact, effort and content generated, subject to criticism or else agreement or even something as mundane as follow up questions and plain discussion.  And effort and content is harder for scum to reproduce than town, which means it's hardly scummy of anyone to do so.

#3 Or both are town that mutually defend that have come to trust each other.  Moreover if scum do decide to defend a town player, it becomes harder for them to mislynch that player anyway without a drastically changing stance that's noticeable

#4 That's on them.

#5 Okay but it's helpful then if the player doing the defending is town isn't it? This isn't in itself scummy

#6 And if the defending player flips town perhaps that lends credence to the fact that the person they defended is town as they said.  You see the town motivation there, yes?

None of these points makes the action of defense scummy.

Your Serela case has little to do with your data considering you quoted things in full.  What I did is simply reference the specific content and based my criticism about that.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
I'm pretty sure it is what happened. Dan kept refusing to vote for other people; encourageing people to vote CF7 by writing off at least equally-viable lynches as 'unviable' and we lynched the wrong person.

No.

Concrete suspicion of Cf7 was established by Me, Bard, and Dormio. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 04:02:53 PM
Dan's blanket defence of Serela, #232 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102805.html#msg1102805).  Sorry, I didn't realise your name was Serela, Dan. 
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I disagree with about everything he concludes or otherwise even says.
Naturally. 
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I think his town worth system is flawed and a useless exercise. 
I'll be interested to see post-game if this is so.  I do agree it is flawed and inaccurate.  It's just a paper based version, after all.  I'll keep working on the software. 
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It's way more believable that Serela voted for you due to his stated reason of looking at Dormio's #139 and perceiving a contradiction in what Dormio highlighted in your post.
I categorically disagree, because Serela explicitly stated in her 143 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102052.html#msg1102052) that;
Quote
re-looking over the part of SkyPal's post Bard Dormio just singled out is, yeah, just from that it's way better of a lynch than NNR or CF7
We know that Serela made her wagon hop/vote switch because of one of those two points. 
Those points are:
Point 1 - I would policy lynch Serela for being useless and also for tunneling Dormio most of the game.  The vote was the laziest and she has done nothing to improve her vote except argue with Dormio.
//Voting me because I have stated an intent to lynch her for being useless and tunneling Dormio. 
Point 2 - I think Dormio is bad for focusing largely only on Serela's vote, when he could (and should) have drilled CF7 and ActionDan for their shitvotes.
//Voting me because I am attacking a person who is attacking her?  Unlikely.
Perhaps Serela can clarify. 

Dan's point 2;
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Concerning the 'I thought Sky might turn into a viable wagon,' that's in response to my post #152 which directly challenges the viability of your wagon D1.  It's like an addendum instead of what it looks like when you present it in juxtaposition with the above, which is an entirely different reason.  Of course your complaint is 'evidence for scum vote hopper' which is a complete non-issue.
You said this;
"It kinda sucks that Sky/Serela are still sticking to their own thing."

Serela said this:
"Dan:I thought Sky might suddenly turn into a viable wagon as a change of events, but if it doesn't then, yeah, I'm going to have to make my mind up about one of those three."
I cut it down to the relevant section, which is:
"I thought Sky might suddenly turn into a viable wagon as a change of events."

Please explain how I presented it in any light other than it actually appeared, which was a deliberate attempt to purely wagon unrelated to scum hunting. 

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Firstly you have labeled a section "Scummy defends" which is obvious from your point value system but the key is why do you have defense as scummy?
I believe certain types of defends are scummy, e.g. mutual defends, blanket defends, excessively targeted defends, wifom defends ("I think player xyz is town because (wifom)) etc etc.  I covered this in better detail in #235. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102971.html#msg1102971)

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Second at least for my case it seems the math is wrong since you have me as "pressuring" NNR and Zak once each but defending Dormio 5 times Serela once, so it should be 2-6 = -4 instead of -1
Pressuring is a towny action because it invites investigation of both the pressed player and the player applying the pressure. 

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Third, what makes you think scum wouldn't apply "attacks" or "pressure" or in equal measure as any townie, they have an agenda to mislynch people which necessitates both these things.

Scum can and should do it, but town also can and should do it.  It's harder for scum to do it.  Therefore, if we consistently see certain players making pressure, we may question if those players are scum. 

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Forth, despite defending Dormio 5 times which apparently stunned you, the most crucial "defense" I have made was yours at the end of D1 which basically led to you not getting lynched.  Was it scummy of me to defend you?  You tell me.
Yes.  It was scummy to defend me (and Dormio).  However, since the lynch was apparently going to be you unless you did something, anything you did to get out of it is excusable. 

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One of the best indicators is the amalgamation of the RVS votes which indeed are trivial and a waste of space. 
A trivial analysis of past Shrine Maiden games shows that scum often vote for each other, or players who voted for their scumbuddies.  The last five games -

Choose your own mafia RVS: 
Pictures of Birds (scum) countervotes Balanced (town), who is voting for Townest (scum). 
Urist (scum) countervotes Balanced (town), who is voting for Townest (scum). 
When Balanced votes for Mirai Nikki (town), Birds votes elsewhere. 

Doctor Wars Mafia RVS:
Serela (scum) voted for Sky_Paladin (scum). 

Puzzle and Dragon Mafia RVS:
Action Dan (scum) voted for CF7 (scum). 

Medaka Box Mafia RVS:
Scums didn't vote for each other or countervote anybody. 

Omerta Mafia RVS:
NNR (scum) countervotes Sky_Paladin for voting Serela (scum). 

Therefore, I feel the RVS analysis is actually valuable, although now that I've pointed out these trends, less so for the next few games. 

Scum know who their buddies are, so their votes are never truly 'random'.  That's the point of the analysis. 

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Nothing really about me or Zak despite stating that you're leaning Zak as scum and the cliffs notes in 191 don't stand for much since their purpose is limited to tabulation.

I'd already run up quite a few walls and I got tired.  I will still sheep Bard's day 1 case, it's just I feel what I have on you and Serela (at this stage) is better. 

On to the next post o/
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 04:06:48 PM
EBWOP: I could still sheep Bard's case on Zak. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: PX on June 10, 2014, 04:08:11 PM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Raikaria (1): Dormio
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (2): Sky Paladin, Serela
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

There are about 11 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
Zakeri (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102988.html#msg1102988)
"Actual post coming soon."

I'm still waiting on this.  There's less than 12 hours to go, so you have until I catch up with the rest of the posts before I have to make a choice, I think.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 04:40:04 PM
Zakeri
Quote
A Large part of my vote is actually in part Process of Elimination
Explain how your POE leads to me? 

Dormio
Quote
Just going to put it out there that I still haven't read Sky Palladium's posts and I'm probably not going to.
You should probably at least read the post where I apologised to you. 

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Sky Palladium's bullshit interactions chart which he himself has stated as arbitrary.
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 I knew you just couldn't keep yourself away from me. 
Also it seems only the very last part of your rebuttal to Raikaria was in regards to the chart (so after my post), and the remainder was drawn from Raikaria's opening case.  So I withdraw my earlier comment. 

Serela
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At least I'm waging a war against bad logic, but, if you pay any attention it should be p.clear I haven't done basically any scumhunting.
I'm well aware of it which is why I flagged you for minimal content x___x.  Why so gloatful about it? 

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Raikaria and SkyPal repeatedly use logic that is just wrong, or at least kind of weird, in order to reach their conclusions.
It's cool, you use logic I don't understand, but different logic isn't scummy.  The thing I am looking for, more than logic, is intent and consistency.  If I can follow your train of thought, even if I disagree with it, I can eat least walk in your footsteps and see how you reached that position.  When people make sudden jumps that I can't follow or come to a conclusion not supported by their train of thought, or behave in ways that are harmful to the team, I have to question the motive for that inconsistent or unexpected behavior. 

Dan
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You are a P.O.E candidate
Explain how?

It's 2am.  I have to sleep and I haven't really looked at Zak yet. 

I'll be around in about six hours to continue this. 

At this stage, I would lynch Dan and Zak.  Serela or Dormio, but I'll admit Dormio mostly because I think his flip would be very helpful.  I think Rai is town on account of making a case and putting forward content. 

I want to say Rawr is town but there's not enough content yet and no real case except for picking up Zak for POE. 

However it was a weird thing for Zak to say so enquiries are relevant.  As are enquiries on Dan since he cited POE against me also. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 04:50:46 PM
The main thing is that while I think both Dan or Zak could be scum, they make no sense as a scum team, so it can't be Dan AND Zak.  And Dan is supporting a Zak lynch, so I'm huh.

Dan and Rawr, if we lynched Zak and he flipped green, what would you think? 
Dormio, if we lynched Rai and he flipped green, what would you think? 
Zak, if you lynched me and I flip green, what would you think? 

Serela, I think people are reading you as town is partly because you're not threatening anybody except for Rai and myself.  Secondly, the actual scums aren't going to want to lynch you, they'll want to keep you around until LYLO.  If you start throwing cases at players I'm sure the situation will change.  You are 'mostly harmless'.  However, I find myself spending a lot of time arguing with you, Dormio, and DNA.  The only players I haven't been in massive disagreements with are Rai and Rawr. 

So I kind of divide our 'factions' up as Serela, Dan, and Dormio.  Then there's Rai, Sky, and Rawr.  Zak kind of sits in the middle.  I imagine scums are actually one in the Serela/Dan/Dormio split, and the other one in the Rai/Sky/Rawr camp.  Whichever camp wins they'll have a player get through.  Zak being in the middle and disengaged may be why both 'camps' are making angry eyes at him; but being disengaged and uninvolved is scummy.  So I can't fault his lynch at this point even though I've personally got more invested in those first three. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2014, 05:01:26 PM
Quote
So I kind of divide our 'factions' up as Serela, Dan, and Dormio.  Then there's Rai, Sky, and Rawr.  Zak kind of sits in the middle.  I imagine scums are actually one in the Serela/Dan/Dormio split, and the other one in the Rai/Sky/Rawr camp. 
ill answer your question later because e3 and i would need to think it over but how did you come to this conclusion of these 2 parties and at least one scum being in both?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2014, 05:05:13 PM
wait why the hell did you include yourself in one of the camps? that just leaves me and raikaria  :wat:
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 05:14:58 PM
It's just from my position/  of 2 am logic. 

I saw Serela make a comment like, Dan and Dormio iirc are her two town pals. 

And I thought "hmm I keep butting heads with the same people, maybe its the same for me" and I wondered if it wasn't the same for thers. 

For example, I figure Dan gets along well with Dormio and Serela.  He likes you as evident by his manly post but I didn't see a reflection back from you about it. 

From my position, looking at plausible scum teams, I can match up Dan with Serela and Dormio.  I could match Serela with pretty much anyone given my experience of her tunneling me all game when I was scum with her.  I could really only put Dormio with Dan.  I could put you (Rawr) with anybody except Zak, I think.  Zak could fit with Dormio, but that's all. 

When I put it out like this I thought, huh, if I'm wrong about Dan, that means it's *unlikely* to Dormio or Serela.  What about being wrong about Raikaria?  I think he's town but if he's scum, I have to flip a few things on it's head.  As in scum Raikaria means town Dormio, with obvious implications against me because I am about the only person who thinks town!Raikaria and I've argued along pretty much the same lines as him for this day phase. 

Then I thought about what I told Serela.  I thought its' really easy for a player to 'switch camps' if they can see them and want to do it.  All they have to do is change their attitude.  And if I was a scum player who saw this, I'd make sure my scum buddy was in the other camp, so we could throw half-assed attacks at each other, and never be suspected if the other one flipped. 

That's why I said that comment.  I'm uncertain of my scum picks.  So I worry the results of being wrong.  If we screw up today next phase is LYLO so if we don't get our best lynch, I want to make a good mislynch. 

eg. if we lynch rai and he's town, where does that leave us?  If we lynch Dan and he's town, what then?  If we lynched me (I'm green!) where does town go next?

That's what I was thinking, just out loud, wondering.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2014, 05:18:20 PM
Quote
Dan and Rawr, if we lynched Zak and he flipped green, what would you think? 
these kind of questions kinda turn me off but w/e. Id probably have to go for serela do to the fact that he hasnt done particularly much this game at all. I see him all game justifying peoples actions and just explaining things but nothing that adds potential content which could help us find scum. serela could just be lynch bait for lylo but id go for it

-cut-
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 05:23:26 PM
I'm just tired and paranoid.  This shit is why I screwed up and hammered Shadoweh before.   I need to sleep.  goodnight.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 05:28:00 PM
No.

Concrete suspicion of Cf7 was established by Me [Scum], Bard [Dead], and Dormio [Scum].

And I don't even recall Bard making that big of a deal over CF7. Suspicion yes, but not enough to be pushing the wagon of mislynch.

In fact Bardiche was voting for Sky_Paladin. Let's have a look at The post where he caves to your pressure and votes for CF7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102084.html#msg1102084)

Note he clearly quotes you refusing to vote for Sky.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 05:29:51 PM
So yes, as I said; CF7's mislynch was led by you, and it happened because of you pressuring other players. Just a quick glance at consolidation shows that blatantly clearly.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 05:34:52 PM
Also from what I can gather Sky thinks Dan/Serela is a potential thing too. I still don't think Serela is more probable scum than Dan, but hey, look, Dan defending people again instead of actually making cases.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 05:35:33 PM
*More probable than Dormio.

Man I post and then I get a new idea a few mins later :/
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 05:45:43 PM
Okay, I see a Zakeri lynch is probably not going to fly considering how many people voice their objections to it. I guess the curse of being unpersuasive continues.

I agree with ActionDan that we should be looking to CF7 and NNR, buuuut... I'd consider lynching Sky Paladin, too, actually.

CF7 is a decent lynch because he's lacked to make distinctions and seems to pick scumpicks for nebulous and vague reasons. Proposing that someone on Dormio's wagon is scum proposes that Dormio is town, and while that in itself is OK, it isn't OK to just jump on the easiest target with no distinction in any direction. His own logic also states he must be scum. Wouldn't be the first time scum's cheeky.

Actually, I think I just sold myself on being happy to vote Sky Paladin over CF7.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin


Yes enough.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 05:46:45 PM
Also from what I can gather Sky thinks Dan/Serela is a potential thing too. I still don't think Serela is more probable scum than Dan, but hey, look, Dan defending people again instead of actually making cases.

lol.

So I guess My cases against you / Zak are nothing.  That's ok you're scum and lying about every last thing I do.  I understand
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 1 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 06:03:56 PM
Yes enough.

I said he was suspicious.

He also thought Sky>CF7; but you quite happily pressured him into doing the opposite, as my linked post shows.

That's ok you're scum and lying about every last thing I do.  I understand

You're not even trying now. If you're so convinced I'm scum and are a townie; you should be voting me. A townie should be voting for who they think is scum. If you are so sure I'm scum why are you not voting me over Zakeri?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 06:05:16 PM
And your case against me is not a case. It's defending yourself. Then Dormio comes in to save you further while misrepping me.

Your case about Zakeri I already said was alright; but it doesn't convince me that Zakeri is more likely to be scum than you are.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 06:14:05 PM
And yes, I think from your opinions on me and Zakeri that you are more confident that I am scum than Zakeri.

I'm calling your bluff. Vote me. Go on. Stick yours and Dormio's necks out by both pushing the on the same townie mislynch a second time. Because it's pretty clear you're more confident that 'I'm Scum' than Zakeri. You even outright said that I am scum just now. Put your vote where your mouth is, or are you scared of revealing yourself by leading a second mislynch?

I don't care if I'm mislynched if it reveals the scum. I'm a VT.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 07:32:10 PM
And yes, I think from your opinions on me and Zakeri that you are more confident that I am scum than Zakeri.

I'm calling your bluff. Vote me. Go on. Stick yours and Dormio's necks out by both pushing the on the same townie mislynch a second time. Because it's pretty clear you're more confident that 'I'm Scum' than Zakeri. You even outright said that I am scum just now. Put your vote where your mouth is, or are you scared of revealing yourself by leading a second mislynch?

I don't care if I'm mislynched if it reveals the scum. I'm a VT.

I'll lynch you after Zakeri.  Wait until then
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:35:25 PM
I'll lynch you after Zakeri.  Wait until then

Care answering why Zakeri is more pressing than me to you?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:35:44 PM
I mean I'm a fighting target, Zakeri is a sleeping one.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:38:22 PM
And before you fire that right back at me; I've thought you scum since early Day 1. I've confidently thought Dormio scum since... mid Day 2? I've simply thought you scum longer.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 07:38:40 PM
If your only motivation to post is to post drivel and constantly, and I mean constantly, misrepresent my posts, label me scum uncritically, and be altogether recalcitrant, I have nothing more to think than you being scum sticking your heels in the mud.  Today I would happily lynch either you or Zakeri. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2014, 07:42:01 PM
were lynching zakeri end of story
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:48:05 PM
If your only motivation to post is to post drivel and constantly, and I mean constantly, misrepresent my posts, label me scum uncritically, and be altogether recalcitrant, I have nothing more to think than you being scum sticking your heels in the mud.  Today I would happily lynch either you or Zakeri.

If your only motivation to post is to constantly evade my questions and make me even more convinced because you are doing this; I have nothing more to think of you other than that you are scum.

If I was scum, why would I be so willing to call your bluff and have you vote me? I know you and Dormio don't want to push a 2nd townie mislynch together like you did with CF7, because that would give you away.

But hey, it seems other people want Zakeri dead, and not me. I'm the harder target.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:49:31 PM
Although I guess if you are actually right about Zakeri, that makes me probobly wrong about you. D2 is a weird time to bus.

Doesn't clear Dormio though, and his misrep of me is bad.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 07:55:31 PM
If your only motivation to post is to constantly evade my questions

Unless your talking about that one quip 'but if CF7 is not town what does that make him? hurrrr'  than I've evaded no questions of yours. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2014, 07:58:58 PM
Quote
But hey, it seems other people want Zakeri dead, and not me. I'm the harder target.
im pretty hard to but i dont go bragging about it.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 07:59:44 PM
Unless your talking about that one quip 'but if CF7 is not town what does that make him? hurrrr'  than I've evaded no questions of yours.

Care answering why Zakeri is more pressing than me to you?

You literally just evaded this.

You said you'd happily lynch me or Zakeri today, but that dosen't explain what is making Zakeri as bad as me, who you categorically state is scum outright, and more pressing [You are, after all, voting Zakeri and not me]

Are you going to start lying blatantly about posts not even on the previous page?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 08:00:49 PM
what are you.

stupid
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 10, 2014, 08:02:49 PM
Definitely stupid (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1103119.html#msg1103119)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 08:06:02 PM
Definitely stupid (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1103119.html#msg1103119)

And that was before you came out and categorically wrote me off as scum.

I saw that opinion as outdated. That was almost 17 hours ago that opinion. I wanted an updated one.

You could have just said 'What I said before' rather than evading the question and then resorting to Ad Hominems.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 08:21:50 PM
Also I don't see how asking if you [Actiondan] was roleblocked while also saying that you are unsure if you were roleblocked yourself is a 'confession'.

I mean, asking if you [Actiondan] was roleblocked surely can help Zakeri figure out if he was roleblocked or not. I hardly see how that is a 'scum confession'.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 09:06:45 PM
Anyway, I'm off now. Won't be around for deadline like D1 because it's at like; 2:30am.

I'm keeping my vote where it is. Sorry I just don't think voting the same person as the person I am convinced is scum is a particularly smart move to make.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 09:12:25 PM
Actually I got nothing planned tomorrow. I'll stick around another hour.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 10, 2014, 09:41:32 PM
Ugh, turn hour into half hour, I'm too sleepy now. Won't be around after this post. I half expect to be lynched when I wake up.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 10:03:53 PM
I want to know why Dan considers me a POE vote.  Zakeri said the same thing. 

Zakeri also hasn't appeared to make the big content post he promised us ages ago. 

I had 5 hours sleep so I could be here for this. 

Rai relax, you're not going to be able to persuade Dan that he is scum so there's no point arguing with him over it at this point.  More to come I guess.  I would lynch Dan so leave your vote where it is. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2014, 11:04:53 PM
Okay I'm back! I know I said I was going to refute Raikaria more but it's not like Dan's actually in any danger of being lynched and there's an awful lot there :/ If you actually want me to, you can point out a specific post or list that you want me to explain why I disagree. Moving on~

Sky:PoE vote would mean it's just a matter of "I'd vote you because almost everyone else is town". Now, having them specifically point out how they came to this conclusion would be cool, I admit. (Also while I'm at it, I wasn't gloating about being useless, I was just kind of pointing out a fact- I think I usually do this in these situations but I don't pay that much attention so w/e)

I think it's funny that the people who think Dan is scum are the people I'm more okay with lynching :V I'm trying to wrestle with my mind over whether or not Zak hasn't posted because he's scum or because he's not here or because he's Zak. He's probably going to get lynched regardless unless there's some significant upset though, because it's not like I have a reliable townread on him nor do I have a significant scumread/case on Rai or SkyPal :/

shit I realized Silverquest was made by stuffman and now I'm getting distracted, concentration became difficult


Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 10, 2014, 11:23:49 PM
Zak's been around in the last two hours as evidenced by his time stamp, and no comment in thread despite several questions for him from a number of players, and failed to deliver promised content. 

At this point I'm signing up for a Zak lynch, pending claims and other hilarity. 

##vote Zakeri
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 12:06:38 AM
That is L-1. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 11, 2014, 12:27:44 AM
Serela I don't have enough syrup to go with all the waffles you're pooping from your mouth.

2.5 hours left
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 12:35:12 AM
So for the sake of seeing if a possible counterwagon even EXISTS, would everyone not on Zak already want to pile onto Raikaria or SkyPal, or is the Zak lynch pretty much set? (Even lynching Raikaria would still require someone on Zak moving to Raikaria, for that matter)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 12:37:33 AM
The fact that there's been like zero effort towards seriously putting up any other lynch concerns me in terms of what is implied on the current lynch's alignment.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:40:43 AM
@Mod: Votecount, please.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:42:54 AM
I'm just going to put it out there that I never really understood the case on Zakeri and therefore prefer my Raikaria lynch.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 12:43:34 AM
I'd vote for Serela, actually. 

Assuming scum!Zak, I would consider scum!Raikaria due to the two largely ignoring each other this game. 

But if town!Zak, that basically assures scum!Dan and Dormio, but you (Serela) have been defended by them all game so you will never vote for them.  They would be bargaining that having you around in LYLO allows them to get a guaranteed win, by being friendly to you all game, and thus assuring your vote at the end. 

Therefore I would remove Serela from the game so that if either of Dan or Dormio are scum, they don't automatically win.  I also consider Serela a reasonable lynch based on her content.  She straight out stated she was using tactics she has used as scum, admitted she isn't doing any scum hunting and has been defended by players I consider scummy.  And both Dormio on day 1 and I on day 2 were happy to lynch her, I don't know if Dormio is town clearing her now though. 

Also I note that you are once again wagon hopping, and you'll happily lynch two players when you haven't actually done any hunting of your own, and are allowing your opinions to be completely manipulated by Dan.  What's your impact on this game? 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:44:03 AM
Also, since apparently we don't have much time left, does anyone feel like giving me a quick rundown on what happened while I was asleep or are you going to force me to read whatever garbage Raikaria spewed out over these past two pages?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 12:44:27 AM
Quote from: Dormio 243
I also really don't like this whole lining up lynches business.
Like, by doing this, you basically build a case to attack me instead of Dan today without actually building a case.
This doesn't work, because 1. Dan would have to flip scum first, which if Rai was scum would require a sacrifice, and 2. Rai would still have to make a case on you based on the flip and restate it.

Quote from: Dormio 243
Like, why are you trying to justify yourself in regards to Sky Palladium's bullshit interactions chart which he himself has stated as arbitrary.
Mafia isn't a game that you can puzzle out like that, who would bother playing if it were?
However, you are acknowledging it.
Is this a thing? Are you calling Raikaria out as scum for trying to analyze and discuss information that somebody else put out?

I don't know why I thought it would be a good idea to claim that I'm not a cop or a tracker. In Retrospect, it's kind of a shitty thing to do, especially since I promised content and then couldn't think of anything to respond to.

Quote from: Dormio 254
You are still failing to account for the actual case on CF7. For example, mine.
Are you saying that the CF7 lynch went through purely due to scaremongering from Dan?
I don't feel like the fact that other people had reasons to vote CF7 would retroactively fix the fact that someone started the wagon with bad reasons.

Honestly, seeing the arguments Dormio tried to put forth has actually strengthen my feelings that an ActionDan case is viable lynch material.

Quote from: Sky Paladin 260
I think that's incorrect.  In the game where Schezo cop-gambitted NNR, I'd picked out the masons pair as scum buddies.  If it's possible to pick up partners in crime, then you should absolutely do it.
This doesn't work at all. In that game, you picked out mason pairs because masons aren't actively trying to hide the fact that they are connected, which is something Scum always have in mind. Masons will never attempt to bus each other, and in fact they may be trying to drop hints that they are connect because if one of them dies, the other can get cleared and never be lynched.
Not only that, but it's probably detrimental to get into scumpair theroies. One of my most successful scum games, I had paired myself up with Serela and buddied with him really hard, and my actual scum buddy has decided to wagon against Serela and buddy up with another townie. The Lylo ended with 2 out of five people voting for the Townies were buddies up with instead of me or my scumbuddy - Scum can weaponize scumpair theories very easily.

My ability to Townclear Serela has nothing to do with Serela's ability to find scum.

Quote from: Sky Paladin 274
Explain how your POE leads to me?
Well, I had narrowed it down to Dan, You, and Dr. Rawr/NNR. Rawr had nothing to pressure as of yet, and I wasn't certain about Dan's case until after the beginning of this post, so I thought I would try my hand at making a case on you.

speaking of pressure, I don't think Dan actually answered my question about the difference between CF7's mind change and why he saw it as scummy compared to other players who have done the same type of mind change in shorter time spans.

Quote from: Sky Paladin 275
Zak, if you lynched me and I flip green, what would you think? 
That I'm having a real bad run this game, which to be honest I already am.
At this point I'm going to switch gears and ##Unvote: Sky Paladin
##Vote: ActionDan


I think I'm starting to agree with the fact that his vote and wagon start on CF7 was too forced. His only real reason for voting CF7 was the fact that he backed down on his vote on Dormio after Dan had encouraged him to make it, and Dan has shown in later posts that he was able to forgive blatant contradiction (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102062.html#msg1102062) in peoples posts on account of them being allowed to change their minds. Basically he's forced out logic that he doesn't believe in to get CF7 lynched.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:44:56 AM
By the way, this has been bugging me for a really long time, but Sky Palladium.
Serela is a fucking dude, bro. Stop referring to him as a she.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 12:45:59 AM
##unvote
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: PX on June 11, 2014, 12:47:18 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (2): Raikaria, Zakeri L-2
Raikaria (1): Dormio
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2

Not Voting (2): Sky Paladin, Serela
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

There are about 2 hours and 15 minutes remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140610T20&p0=224&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:48:47 AM
##Unvote: Sky Paladin
##Vote: ActionDan

Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri
lel
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 12:49:02 AM
Quote
She straight out stated she was using tactics she has used as scum
The context in which this is being used is so absolutely BS that I'm going to seriously
##Vote SkyPaladin

although anyway
Quote
you'll happily lynch two players when you haven't actually done any hunting of your own, and are allowing your opinions to be completely manipulated by Dan. 
I'm asking if a counterwagon would even exist. I'm not explicitly saying I'm going to lynch them. It's kind of nice to know if any other choice EVEN EXISTS IN THE FIRST PLACE though, you know? Normally when you don't have damning evidence the lynch isn't one-and-done. And uh, since when are my opinions being manipulated by Dan? I'm not looking towards Dan's posts for anything more than making sure he's still town.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: PX on June 11, 2014, 12:51:48 AM
I'm on my phone, shut up
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:52:10 AM
I may not be reading his posts right now, but I don't really want to lynch Sky Palladium by virtue of how obnoxious he is.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 12:53:55 AM
I'm sorry Zakeri but I'm reaching the scummy side of the waffle end on you again, that makes it less bad that there's no counterwagon to save you with. (No I'm not lynching dan)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 11, 2014, 12:54:56 AM
I think a Raikaria lynch is viable.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 12:56:10 AM
I don't blame Sky for voting me earlier, since two hours is kind of a long time to wait for a post.

even though it usually takes me seven hours to do so.

Quote
(No I'm not lynching dan)
Why not? :<
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 12:56:41 AM
I think I should shut my dirty mouth because I can't make decisions this game.

I can always change my mind later though, so again, for the sake of hopefully having some kind of choice instead of outright "yeah zak's dead meat"

##Unvote ##Vote Raikaria
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
I think a Raikaria lynch is viable.

No thank you, saving me really isn't worth Raikaria since I think he has the better chance of convincing everyone to go after Dan tomorrow.

But if people do go down that route for some reason, then I'll take it over a NL (Which I don't think it going to happen with me at L-2.)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
speaking of pressure, I don't think Dan actually answered my question about the difference between CF7's mind change and why he saw it as scummy compared to other players who have done the same type of mind change in shorter time spans.
That I'm having a real bad run this game, which to be honest I already am.
At this point I'm going to switch gears and ##Unvote: Sky Paladin
##Vote: ActionDan


I think I'm starting to agree with the fact that his vote and wagon start on CF7 was too forced. His only real reason for voting CF7 was the fact that he backed down on his vote on Dormio after Dan had encouraged him to make it, and Dan has shown in later posts that he was able to forgive blatant contradiction (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102062.html#msg1102062) in peoples posts on account of them being allowed to change their minds. Basically he's forced out logic that he doesn't believe in to get CF7 lynched.

Comparing the contradictions of CF7 and Sky Paladin is comparing apples to oranges.  Sky stated that both Dormio and Serela were scummy with Serela being scummy for thinking Dormio was scummy (tunneling all game) which is the source of the contradiction.  I thought that apparent contradiction was acceptable.  CF7 dropped the Dormio vote arbitrarily after calling Dormio bad because Dormio got to L-1, and then called him town.  That I found unacceptable.  The time difference only strengthens the disparity because in 27 posts worth of content none were discussed inbetween CF7's change of opinion.

I didn't particularly expect anything more than this from Zak though.  it's obviously the only attempt at a cw he has.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 11, 2014, 01:07:14 AM
Can't Believe This Is Happening Again Vote Count:

ActionDan (2): Raikaria, Zakeri L-2
Raikaria (2): Dormio, Serela L-2
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2

Not Voting (1): Sky Paladin
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Like 2 hours left.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 01:07:28 AM
Actually he could have chosen to go Raikaria I suppose.  possible 3 votes there + maybe serela
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 01:10:26 AM
Zak, while what you are saying is music to my ears, you're actually responding to Dormio and myself, and not really establishing why you're voting for Dan. 

Quote
I don't blame Sky for voting me earlier, since two hours is kind of a long time to wait for a post.

Actually, it was more  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1102988.html#msg1102988)like 24 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1103456.html#msg1103456) hours. 

I unvoted because you were at L-1, we had a lot of activity all of a sudden, and I didn't want a surprise hammer to drop. 

I feel like your surprise last minute appearance is more of a not me over me vote, which I can't support a lynch on Dan with at this stage. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 01:14:48 AM
I sorta want to test to see if Zak immediately hammers if I were to vote Raikaria right now.  If I were Scum!Zak and Raikaria was town, I'd do it.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 01:17:49 AM
Dormio, the case on Zak -

Dan's case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1103119.html#msg1103119)
Rawr's case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1103134.html#msg1103134)

I don't have a specific case.  I think he has poor interactions and is detached from the game and shown low effort.  I agreed with what Bard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101814.html#msg1101814) said on day 1.  Bard also hammered you and I in this same post, coincidentally. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 01:26:45 AM
I'll be back approx. 1/2 hour to deadline
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 01:29:19 AM
The Short of it is that I feel like Raikaria's case makes more sense, and that it's true that a majority of Dan's arguments against CF7 were just wagon urgings and a few points that look good but don't flow together. I don't see what the difference is that made CF7's mind change unacceptable when Sky's was. For the record, I think both of those shifts in thought were reasonable town reactions, and I feel like CF7's was more reasonable because it was a standard paranoia reaction to seeing a wagon grow so fast. Stating that logically it doesn't make sense doesn't work because human feeling doesn't always have to coincide with logic, and even if you did adhere to that, Sky's switch would be even worse because the logic was headbutting up against itself, rather than CF7's switch. I feel like Dan's decided it arbitrarily, and it was the only real point Dan had against CF7.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 01:50:22 AM
I think we need claims from Zak and Dan.  Raikaria already claimed VT. 

Dormio, what do you think? 

I kind of feel that if I voted for anybody, Serela will just hammer them. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 01:53:09 AM
Because clearly with several people townreading me I should just claim scum while in no danger of being lynched.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 01:57:36 AM
I won't stop you if you want to go ahead :3  But I was referring to Zak and Dan, actually. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 02:12:01 AM
That's not the part of your post I meant. ;_;
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 02:12:10 AM
Vanilla Town.

I think Serela was referring to quickhammering, not roleclaiming.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:16:45 AM
I see no need to claim.  back in 15 min
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 02:28:17 AM
So deadline is in 30 minutes, I think? We obviously are lynching -someone-, so, can we at least get them at l-1 so I can make sure someone is hammered?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 11, 2014, 02:29:04 AM
I actually forgot I'm still voting, but Zakeri is most likely the one getting lynched anyway (and I'm not voting him atm), so w/e
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 02:34:16 AM
Alright.  Here's my dilemma. 

Let's look at this vote count again - day 1. 
23 hours out. 
ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (1): Raikaria
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Dormio (3): ActionDan, CF7, Serela L-2
Bardiche (1): Sky Paladin

13 hours out. 
Dormio (4): ActionDan, CF7, Serela, Sky Paladin L-1
ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Raikaria
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Sky Paladin (1): NNR

6 hours out. 
Dormio (2): ActionDan, Serela
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7
Serela (1): Dormio
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
NNR (1): Sky Paladin

2 hours out. 
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
NNR (2): Sky Paladin, ActionDan
Dormio (1): Serela
CF7 (1): Dormio

1 hour out. 
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (2): NNR, Serela
NNR (1): ActionDan
Dormio (1): Sky Paladin
CF7 (1): Dormio

40 minutes out. 
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Sky Paladin (3): NNR, Serela, Bardiche L-2
CF7 (3): Dormio, ActionDan, Sky Paladin L-2

Day 1 end
CF7 (4): Dormio, ActionDan, Sky Paladin, Bardiche L-1
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7 L-2
Sky Paladin (2): NNR, Serela

Now here we are. 
Quote
ActionDan (2): Raikaria, Zakeri L-2
Raikaria (2): Dormio, Serela L-2
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2

***

My thoughts are:
If Raikaria is scum, from my analysis earlier, his most likely buddy is Zak.  Those two have voted together for the whole game, except for a brief period where Zak was voting me. 
It also ruled out Raikaria as a consolidate option for Zak when he saw himself at L-1 today. 

If Dormio is scum, his most likely buddies are Dan or Serela, but Serela is not up for lynch, so he could easily have consolidated on to Zak or Dan by now without issue.  However, we can't rule out Serela as scum, because she has town cleared Dan and won't vote for Dan. 

If Dan was scum, his most likely buddies are Serela or Dormio, but those two are not up for lynch.  Therefore he could easily consolidate on to Raikaria or Zak, because I refuse to believe scum!Dan could be buddies with either of those two. 

If Rawr is scum I have no idea who his buddy is but since there are three people up for lynch and none of them are him, it's safe to say he could have consolidated on to Rai or Dan if the other one was his buddy. 

If I was scum, I would happily hop on to whichever of Zak or Rai was not my buddy, since a lynch of Dan is too difficult. 

I think that's everybody. 

Therefore, I'm leaning to a Zak lynch at this stage.  Dormio, you want to pull my stuff apart and come to another opinion?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:36:35 AM
The Short of it is that I feel like Raikaria's case makes more sense, and that it's true that a majority of Dan's arguments against CF7 were just wagon urgings and a few points that look good but don't flow together. I don't see what the difference is that made CF7's mind change unacceptable when Sky's was. For the record, I think both of those shifts in thought were reasonable town reactions, and I feel like CF7's was more reasonable because it was a standard paranoia reaction to seeing a wagon grow so fast. Stating that logically it doesn't make sense doesn't work because human feeling doesn't always have to coincide with logic, and even if you did adhere to that, Sky's switch would be even worse because the logic was headbutting up against itself, rather than CF7's switch. I feel like Dan's decided it arbitrarily, and it was the only real point Dan had against CF7.

Should I have voted Sky instead? I'll vote the guy with 2 posts demonstrating an arbitrary thought process based off of non-content narrative causality anyday.  I still think Sky's two points headbutting were okay both separately and together.  And no, CF7's reaction was by no means standard anymore than if I or anyone else saw a scumsuspect of theirs rise to L-1 and suddenly felt the need to declare them town, which is ludicrous.     

Re: deadline panic.  If I have to I'll switch to raikaria, which is okay too. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:40:57 AM
Serela can I ask again who your preferred lynch is. 

or a rough ordering of your suspects etc.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 02:42:21 AM
Whereas I do agree if Zak is scum Raikaria is probably scum, Zak hasn't flipped yet so I don't feel like jumping to the hasty conclusion and lynching Rai right now.  Out of the two, Rai's been trying much harder, and I've been townreading him all game.  I'd rather lynch Zak. 

##Zakeri
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 02:42:38 AM
sigh

##vote Zakeri
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 02:46:04 AM
I already implied in an earlier post that voting Sky wasn't the answer to correcting the problem I have with your vote on CF7, it was not having such an arbitrary reasons as the only actual reason for your vote on CF7.

Can you at least explain to me how it's ludicrous to have that reaction and not just that it is?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 11, 2014, 02:47:01 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (2): Raikaria, Zakeri L-2
Raikaria (2): Dormio, Serela L-2
Zakeri (3): Dr Rawr, ActionDan, Sky Paladin L-1

Not Voting (0)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

13 minutes left!!!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 02:50:04 AM
Oh well, I feel like kicking myself for even considering this, but not me over me I guess.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria


Sorry.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:50:41 AM
Would you ever immediately declare someone you previously suspected to be town just because they hit L-1 as a reason alone.  I wouldn't. 


cut.  wat.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 02:51:59 AM
If it was early day one and my reason for believing they were scum was a thing that happens in/just after rvs, then yes.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 11, 2014, 02:53:09 AM
I'm still hoping that someone it listening to me besides the guy I'm arguing with, I really liked to switch back to Dan if I could.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:54:23 AM
I admit it's tempting to fulfill Raikaria's own prophesy of getting lynched.  before while gone.

cut: the reason had been expanded upon past RVS.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 11, 2014, 02:55:54 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Raikaria (3): Dormio, Serela, Zakeri L-1
Zakeri (3): Dr Rawr, ActionDan, Sky Paladin L-1

Not Voting (0)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Less than 5 minutes left!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:56:41 AM
I'll hammer in 2 min.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 11, 2014, 02:59:01 AM
I think Zak just lynched a scum buddy.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:59:19 AM
##Vote: Raikaria

Somehow you survived knowingly giving away possibly useful info to scum.

That's just so so damning imo.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 02:59:39 AM
##Unvote
##Vote Raikaria
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 11, 2014, 03:00:23 AM
though screw this guy for doing the same in a fit of rage.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 11, 2014, 03:01:40 AM
HAMMER'D!

Player 1 moved in to the space Raikaria was in charge of, intending to try and execute Raikaria for his crimes, but it looks like Raikaria was blown up in the confusion of the battle that had ensued.

(http://puu.sh/9ojkW/0a93ea916a.png)

Raikaria was lynched! He was a Vanilla Townie.

Final Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Raikaria (4): Dormio, Serela, Zakeri, ActionDan LYNCH
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, Sky Paladin L-2

Not Voting (0)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Night 2 begins now and will last 24 hours. Send in your night actions!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Night 2 (Player 2's Turn)
Post by: Raikaria on June 11, 2014, 05:52:53 AM
Call me a prophet.

Also; bah.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 11, 2014, 11:59:31 PM
Player 2 has once again made their move! Meanwhile, it seems like Dr Rawr was silently killed in his sleep by Player 2's ninjas. Check out the game board now:

(http://puu.sh/9pxYl/f87ecf7bbb.png)

Looks like Player 2's tic-tac-toe game is on point :v Anyway...

Dr Rawr was assassinated! He was a Vanilla Townie.

Day 3 begins now and will last 72 hours. With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

End of Day 3 Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140614T17&p0=224)

LYLO is in effect. Town must lynch mafia today or they will lose.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2014, 12:03:32 AM
##Vote ActionDan
I am the cop.
ActionDan is guilty.

Night 1, I investigated Sky Palladium which is why I decided to ignore him.
Night 2, I investigated ActionDan because with Raikaria flipping town, there is basically no point to copping Zakeri.
Which brings us to today. Yo.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 12:06:29 AM
Of course it was rawr. The most neutral target due to lack of activity. ;_; I guess it made him a wild card+gives the least info to town.

Unless some kind of slam dunk is made tho', still pretty confident in Dan/Dormio being town compared to Sky/Zak. I was really indecisive end of d2 so I just went ahead and let Raikaria get hammered via not hammering Zak myself >_>; I guess it was likely the wrong decision, huh? I admit it was tempting as well because I figured either way it'd get rid of having to worry about the fervent chase on Dan with arguments I didn't agree were based on actual application of scumminess.

Anyway, I won't do something stupid like VOTE ZAKERI IN LYLO OFF THE BAT at ~*~least~*~ until other people say things and I get to gauge game state. Oh wow cut by Dormio being a thing. Uh. I'm inclined to go with it, thank goodness Sky wasn't the cop because I'd have just lynched him if he tried it >_>; But I'll think things over somewhat while I wait to see other reactions, just to make sure I'm not missing some weird contradiction.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 12, 2014, 02:16:10 AM
Vote Count:

ActionDan (1): Dormio L-2

Not Voting (4): ActionDan, Zakeri, Serela, Sky Paladin
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

There are about 70 hours remaining. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140614T17&p0=224)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:16:28 AM
I'm the cop.

Zak is guilty.  Rawr was my innocent yesterday.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:23:04 AM
Dormio claiming cop first is unexpected for it being Dormio.  Last night I thought it really might be Serela/Zakeri.

ANYWAY.

Let's all have some tea and crumpets before things get wild and out of control. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:26:59 AM
I was really indecisive end of d2 so I just went ahead and let Raikaria get hammered via not hammering Zak myself >_>; I guess it was likely the wrong decision, huh?

Which was why I was thinking it was you/Zak last night.  It was inexplicable you didn't hammer him.  Though I didn't say anything, I still had my doubts about Raikaria being scum and was just hoping Zak could die first and settle that later after I could get a cop investigate off.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 2 (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:34:13 AM
Hi Rawr you're clearly 100% town amiright?

Please shower us with your pristine thoughts on this game you were clearly following all along

This is my crumb btw in case I died.  I'd have hoped town would find it.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 02:41:11 AM
Dan's crumb and the fact that, upon review, my Dan townread is stronger than my Dormio townread, makes me think that we should lynch Dormio out of the two. Dan copping the slot that had no info to try to read off makes a lot of sense as well.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:43:23 AM
Oh wow cut by Dormio being a thing. Uh. I'm inclined to go with it, thank goodness Sky wasn't the cop because I'd have just lynched him if he tried it >_>; But I'll think things over somewhat while I wait to see other reactions, just to make sure I'm not missing some weird contradiction.

:C

This is the stage where you ask questions to da cops.  You + Sky paladin whom you can trust because he's confirmed town.  Also btw, Zak is confirmed scum to you.  hope that helps.

For example you might want to ask why there was no point in copping Zakeri to Dormio after Raikaria flipped town (it wasn't like Zakeri/Raikaria was 100% had to be, especially with how the lynch defaulted to Raikaria yesterday) and there was the added bonus that Zak claimed VT, making it impossible for him to CC if he was found guilty, which in the end made me choose him over anyone else since either free painless scum lynch found or else team exposed [which is what is happening now]
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 02:53:31 AM
I didn't think very hard after the Dormio claim, because...

...WHY DOES THAT ALWAYS HAPPEN IN LYLO THIS IS WHY EVERYTHING ALWAYS GOES WRONG AT THIS POINT ;_;

I seem to lose the part of my brain that's in charge of critical thinking when it's lylo.

Anyway I'm pretty sure at this point that it's clear Dan is town.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 03:01:25 AM
That's more reassuring.  I don't think it's an incredibly hard choice to make either, but there are definitely subtleties worth exploring, questions to be asked.

Dota time.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2014, 03:56:08 AM
wat.

Anyway I'm pretty sure at this point that it's clear Dan is town.
I have a cop result saying otherwise.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 04:30:27 AM
I have a cop result saying otherwise.
Well obviously one of you is lying, so.

Still going to wait for the others to weigh in. That's... SkyPaladin and... I... I can figure this out... it's not raikaria or rawr because they just died... *Counts on fingers* Serela Dan Dormio Sky... there's totally one more person >_>; Okay I checked a votecount it's Zakeri. You mean you didn't die on n1? Get in here and vote for your scumbuddy.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 05:33:09 AM
Dan, the trouble is that you've towncleared/defended so many players, I can't accept your 'crumb', because at this point you could basically go back and say "oh yeah here is where I town cleared this person" for almost anybody.  Also, you're not the only one who said it. 

Rawr
Quote
im not even going to humor a sky paladin lynch for the rest of this game
which he repeated a couple of times, which pretty much heavily crumbed he was a cop who had cleared me on night 1, and scum hit him thinking he was the cop.  I even thought he was the cop.  If I was a doc, I would have covered Rai night 1 and Rawr night 2.  It was obvious.  I assume Rawr did it to buy a hit away from the real roled townies. 

Anyway, why did you check NNR night 1 instead of Zakeri?  On day 1 you said:

Quote
CF7 and Bardiche are town.

Raikaria - a little more townish than null

Serela/Dormio/Sky - null/undecided.

NNR - theoretically null but I'm surprised he hasn't posted more so acceptable lurker lynch to me.

Zak - somewhat scummier than null but not more than a tinge

Quote
2 people (me and Bard) believe Zak is scummy.

***

Serela, if you're town, I want you to consider that up until this point in the game, you've believed everything Dormio and Dan have said.  Now one of them is definitely scum, so everything you've believed so far has been wrong.  Conversely, the people in my 'camp' - the ones you've wanted dead - Raikaria, Rawr, have both flipped town.  If you believe Dan, Dormio and Zak are scum, and I am therefore town. 

I'll bet if we had lynched Zak yesterday, regardless of his flip, Dan and Serela would still be willing to run up Raikaria for a lynch today, because you're still willing to flip Zak without having considered anything at all about Dan's interactions with players who are now confirmed town before coming to your 'decision' to trust Dan over Dormio. 

What is your reasoning for trusting Dan's word over Dormio's word, when up until now you were sure they were the only two players who were definitely town? 

***

Zak, what are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 12, 2014, 06:43:33 AM
My obvious Stance is that Dan is bullshit.

Listing NNR/Rawr as the night one pick, especially after he died in the night is a useless, but safe pick since it prevents catching flak for "Why not grab information from the person who has literally no information ever?"
It's a safe move that scum pretty much have to use when they claim.

I'm 80% sure he would have tried to pull a guilty on Raikaria if I had been lynched, since a huge part of the case against Raikaria was just trying to line him up with my lynch happening first. I feel like the cop claim is an attempt to convince other people to push ahead on me even though Raikaria was town.

Yesterday, when I was glancing over, I ended up being kind of suspicious of Dormio even though I don't think I voiced that concern. I've felt like all game he was blowing his cases up but AtE isn't really scummy in itself, and it doesn't matter since the answer is kind of clear to me right now.

I'll look into it later tomorrow after I sleep. I still have to look over who of Sky or Serela is Dan's partner, which I'm not really looking forward to, especially since Dormio will be the NK if we lynch Dan.

##Vote: ActionDan
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 08:52:34 AM
What teams are there?

Dormio + Dan bus we can rule out because otherwise there'd be a third player counterclaiming them. 

Dormio + Serela = impossible, as town!Dan declares Zak scum. 
Dormio + Zakeri = Possible, given Dormio's "I don't understand the case on Zakeri" the day before, and vote on Raikaria over Zak and matches Dan's claim.  I will need to check interactions. 
Dormio + Sky_Paladin = impossible, as town!Dan declares Zak scum. 

Dan + Serela = strongly likely because of mutual defending and suppression of other players at the same time, voting history, and Serela blatant refusal to vote him. 
Dan + Zak = highly unlikely because Dan was all over a Zak lynch on day 2. 
Dan + Sky_Paladin = impossible because Dormio!cop validates Sky!town. 

Any combination that doesn't include Dan or Dormio is impossible because it's a 1 v 1. 
If Dan flips red, Dormio and I are town, and it's a choice between Zak and Serela for the last scum. 
If Dormio flips red, Zak is the other scum because Dan's telling the truth about his check, and everybody else is town. 

Therefore at this stage I am confirmed town regardless of Dan or Dormio's flip.  Yipee. 

Scum teams can only be Dormio and Zakeri, or Serela and Dan. 

I'm a little concerned to see Dormio and Zak voting immediately in LYLO but it makes sense on account of:  town!Dormio knows if he is sitting on a confirm guilty, and town!Zak knows if Dan is lying about his alignment. 
A little concerned to see alleged cop!Dan not auto-voting Zakeri if he has a presumed guilty, or auto-voting alleged scum!Dormio since Dormio is theoretically lying about Dan's alignment. 

At the moment I'm leaning scum!Dan over scum!Dormio. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 09:58:57 AM
Re-read shows that Bard was pushing for a Zak lynch day 1, and was night hit.  Day 2, Dan and Rawr pushing for a Zak lynch, Rawr died. 

Interactions between Dormio/Zak not really compelling, there's one instance of Zak semi-destroying Dormio's case on Raikaria but it looks kind of half hearted. 

Dan and Serela put in significantly more effort than Zak and Dormio so the question for me is do I believe my analysis from day 1 which says 'Dan and Serela' or go with what I said at the start (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.msg1101549.html#msg1101549) of this game?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 10:41:43 AM
Vote analysis. 
Team 1 (Dan, Serela)
Team 2 (Dormio, Zak)

Day 1

32 hours
ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Bardiche
Zakeri (2): Dormio, Raikaria
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Dormio(3): ActionDan , CF7, Serela L-2
Bardiche(1): Sky Paladin
Not Voting (0)

26 hours
ActionDan (1): Zakeri
Zakeri(1): Raikaria
Sky Paladin(1): NNR
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Dormio(3): ActionDan , CF7, Serela L-2
Bardiche(1): Sky Paladin

13 hours
Dormio(4): ActionDan , CF7, Serela , Sky Paladin L-1
ActionDan (2): Zakeri, Raikaria
Serela (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Sky Paladin (1): NNR

6 hours
Dormio(2): ActionDan , Serela
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7
Serela (1): Dormio
Sky Paladin (1): Sky Paladin
Zakeri(1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin(1): NNR

3 hours
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7L-2
Zakeri(1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (1): NNR
Sky Paladin(2): Sky Paladin, ActionDan
Dormio(1): Serela
CF7(1): Dormio

1 hour 20
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7L-2
Zakeri(1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (2): NNR, Serela
Sky Paladin(1): ActionDan
Dormio(1):Sky Paladin
CF7(1): Dormio

40 minutes
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7L-2
Sky Paladin (3): Sky Paladin, Serela , BardicheL-2
CF7(3): Dormio, ActionDan , NNR L-2

Hammer
ActionDan (3): Zakeri, Raikaria, CF7L-2
Sky Paladin(1): NNR
CF7(5): Dormio, ActionDan , Sky Paladin, Bardiche, Serela

Day 2
50 hours
ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Zakeri(1): Dr Rawr
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri
Not Voting (4): ActionDan , Sky Paladin, Serela , Dormio

26 hours
ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Zakeri(1): Dr Rawr
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (4): ActionDan , Sky Paladin, Serela , Dormio

22.5 hours & 11 hours
ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Raikaria(1): Dormio
Zakeri(2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2
Sky Paladin (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (2): Sky Paladin, Serela

2 hours
ActionDan (2): Raikaria, ZakeriL-2
Raikaria(2): Dormio, Serela L-2
Zakeri(2): Dr Rawr, ActionDan L-2

Not Voting (1): Sky Paladin

13 minutes
ActionDan (2): Raikaria, ZakeriL-2
Raikaria(2): Dormio, Serela L-2
Zakeri(3): Dr Rawr, ActionDan , Sky Paladin L-1

Hammer
ActionDan (1): Raikaria
Raikaria(4): Dormio, Serela , Zakeri, ActionDan
Zakeri (2): Dr Rawr, Sky PaladinL-2

Hitting post on this now so I can read it easily.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 10:49:20 AM
Sorry, I'm on five hours sleep and I'm too tired to do this anymore tonight.  I'll sleep on it and check it in the morning. 

ActionDan and Zakeri were both possible lynches yesterday, and all four suspects wound up lynching Raikaria.  I want to review the motives behind why Rai got lynched instead of Zak.  but tired.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 12:53:08 PM
Quote
What is your reasoning for trusting Dan's word over Dormio's word
They were both townreads, but now that I know one is false- after reviewing them properly I decided Dan is definitely the townread I trust more. I'd be really, really surprised if Dan flipped scum- it wouldn't be so much if Dormio flipped scum, even though I would have thought him to be moreso town until these shenanigans happened.

By the way, uh, you can look at SkyPal's analysis.

Quote
Scum teams can only be Dormio and Zakeri, or Serela and Dan.
Granted, all it takes to remove SkyPal's quick reasoning to disprove Dan/Zak scumteam is Dan bussing Zakeri d2, which is definitely not impossible, but- given I already am more more inclined to think Dan is town over Dormio, yeah. (Doing beyond disproving to showing that it's actually likely is a different matter entirely, for that matter- Dorm/Zak scumteam makes more sense through interactions)

##Vote Dormio
I mean I guess I could vote Zakeri instead due to the circumstances of the odd 1v2 but if Dan is town it seriously doesn't matter since they both would -have- to be scum.

Please consider, also, that if Dan is scum he's alienating another townie against him via claiming a guilty on Zak, making his cop result really detrimental to trying to not get lynched, unless again you think it's a Zak/Dan scumteam where Dan is superbussing and now pulling silly gambits. That'd be pretty funny, but, yeah.

Quote
A little concerned to see alleged cop!Dan not auto-voting
Does it really matter?

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 12:57:44 PM
Votecounts with Zakeri trying to get Dan lynched both d1 and d2 further suggests against Zak/Dan because bussing d1 is lol. I mean it could give nice cred but scum almost never wants to take the risk and throw their scumbuddy away that fast, when on d1 you can do otherwise with like no effort or gained suspicion in most cases.

Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 01:34:08 PM
I decided I should lynch the guy I am scumreading rather than talk myself out of it like I did in the other game.  Of course, now Dormio will be scum, so damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

Dormio has at least been consistent, if not very helpful, but I want to believe that his .gif from Face Off was totally crumbing cop. 

Also I can't see a realistic scenario where scum!Dormio would gambit a fake guilty.  He didn't know Dan was the cop and Rawr had crumbed it just as heavily; if he had gambitted on Dan, and one of Serela or I had been the cop, he would be dead straight away.  The real cop would countervote, the guy he was accusing would countervote, and that's before any arguments.  Dormio wasn't a lynch candidate for today; it was always going to be ActionDan or Serela, because everybody knows I thought that Zakeri was town due to the Raikaria flip. 

##vote ActionDan

Well that's either GG or see you next phase for another episode of Let's Lynch Serela. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2014, 01:43:39 PM
Good luck Serela. You'll need it to survive tomorrow.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2014, 01:44:21 PM
Wait, shit, that's not right.
Tomorrow's not coming.
Because Dan is the cop.
And Sky Paladin just hammered him.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2014, 01:44:41 PM
ggwp
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 01:45:51 PM
Sigh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gg wp.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 02:05:47 PM
Quote
He didn't know Dan was the cop
It's confirmed that scum have a rolecop, you know...

But anyway welp~
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:16:30 PM
Dan, the trouble is that you've towncleared/defended so many players, I can't accept your 'crumb', because at this point you could basically go back and say "oh yeah here is where I town cleared this person" for almost anybody.  Also, you're not the only one who said it. 

Rawr which he repeated a couple of times, which pretty much heavily crumbed he was a cop who had cleared me on night 1, and scum hit him thinking he was the cop.  I even thought he was the cop.  If I was a doc, I would have covered Rai night 1 and Rawr night 2.  It was obvious.  I assume Rawr did it to buy a hit away from the real roled townies. 

Anyway, why did you check NNR night 1 instead of Zakeri?  On day 1 you said:

***

Serela, if you're town, I want you to consider that up until this point in the game, you've believed everything Dormio and Dan have said.  Now one of them is definitely scum, so everything you've believed so far has been wrong.  Conversely, the people in my 'camp' - the ones you've wanted dead - Raikaria, Rawr, have both flipped town.  If you believe Dan, Dormio and Zak are scum, and I am therefore town. 

I'll bet if we had lynched Zak yesterday, regardless of his flip, Dan and Serela would still be willing to run up Raikaria for a lynch today, because you're still willing to flip Zak without having considered anything at all about Dan's interactions with players who are now confirmed town before coming to your 'decision' to trust Dan over Dormio. 

What is your reasoning for trusting Dan's word over Dormio's word, when up until now you were sure they were the only two players who were definitely town? 

***

Zak, what are your thoughts?

The only People I more or less town cleared were Dormio/Serela/Rawr.  Dormio you could have discounted because I said "Dormio has the slimmest of chances to be scum" which implies I didn't cop him.  I did call Serela strong town.  However if your going to identify a crumb, you should look at the "You're 100% town" as that crumb.  If you want to do a thought exercise, pretend that instead of Rawr, either me or Dormio died instead.  What would you think our results would be?  Mine I'm pretty sure would be clear, Dormio's would not be considering he entirely ignored everybody besides Raikaria and "I am not reading Sky's posts" does not translate to a cop clear at all. 

I agree that Rawr was hit with scum thinking he was a cop.  But not thinking he had an innocent on you.  Probably thinking he had a guilty on Zakeri the whole time.  "Quick thoughts -> Vote: Zakeri" ; "We're lynching Zakeri end of story"  would be sufficient guilty crumbs.  And if he did have an innocent, it would have been on Raikaria.



STOPPTWPTOAWPERTAERW:TOLEARPTLQERATAASTOP

STOP STOP
STOP
 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:17:27 PM
GG wp scum.


Sky please throw your assiociation anal out the window
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:18:17 PM
And thanks for not giving any time for defense.
jesus
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:20:00 PM
I decided I should lynch the guy I am scumreading rather than talk myself out of it like I did in the other game.  Of course, now Dormio will be scum, so damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

Dormio has at least been consistent, if not very helpful, but I want to believe that his .gif from Face Off was totally crumbing cop. 

Also I can't see a realistic scenario where scum!Dormio would gambit a fake guilty.  He didn't know Dan was the cop and Rawr had crumbed it just as heavily; if he had gambitted on Dan, and one of Serela or I had been the cop, he would be dead straight away.  The real cop would countervote, the guy he was accusing would countervote, and that's before any arguments.  Dormio wasn't a lynch candidate for today; it was always going to be ActionDan or Serela, because everybody knows I thought that Zakeri was town due to the Raikaria flip. 

##vote ActionDan

Well that's either GG or see you next phase for another episode of Let's Lynch Serela.

And that's why you voted.


wow.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:20:41 PM
W/e peace.

Dormio played a good game.

Zak played just fine.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 02:22:01 PM
Back to lurking for me.

Not worth it to play as town as possible just to lose because of a derp
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 02:32:59 PM
Dan's play was glorious this game and he got chased by Raikaria over things that seriously weren't even things that make people scummy (weird logic is one thing, logic that "no, that thing you're saying that means someone is scummy, it's seriously not something that's scummy" is a whole different matter), and lynched in lylo because SkyPal didn't wait for anyone else to discuss things with him :/
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: PX on June 12, 2014, 03:01:21 PM
Hammer please wait warmly for Polly-kun to wake up girls
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 12, 2014, 03:43:58 PM
Bah!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: Polaris on June 12, 2014, 04:42:56 PM
Hammering while the mod is asleep >:< so mean

Ahem...

Player 1 decided to make their move, and managed to gain control of the space they chose, but ActionDan, suspected of being a spy for Player 2, was shot somewhere along the way.

(http://puu.sh/9qqiB/aaa228d82a.png)

ActionDan was lynched! He was the Town Cop.

When it was revealed that ActionDan was not a spy, Player 1 was so enraged that he ordered that everyone else be executed.

Serela was endgamed! He was a Vanilla Townie.
Sky Paladin was endgamed! He was a Vanilla Townie.

At this, the citizens under Player 1's rule were outraged at the terrible behavior that Player 1 was displaying, and began to call for an execution. It was revealed that the deaths apparently caused by Player 2 were actually fabricated by the government to put Player 2 in a bad light, and was not caused by Player 2 in any way! Also, Player 1 was having an affair! These scandals rose up one by one, and Player 1's good name was ruined forever.

Meanwhile, Player 2 completed the powerful Three-in-a-Row Formation (which they were clearly planning to do all along) and took over the Tic-Tac-Toe Gameboard and ruled strictly but fairly, and the citizens under Player 2's rule lived happily ever after.

(http://puu.sh/9qqOA/8bb3f31bda.png)

Dormio, Mafia Goon, and Zakeri, Mafia Rolecop, have won the game!

Scum QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rQThnP4YqTT)
Mod QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ijchAQRpSJNMq) (Roles and night actions can be found here.)
Graveyard (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ZVqC9U3NUGrrS)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 12, 2014, 05:00:03 PM
I'm looking over for Interactions, and I've only gotten to post 250 which is page five for me, but I think I've got it.
The most damning piece was early day one, when Serela Randomly votes ActionDan. In post 25, he says "Can I do something stupid yet? I'm already voting Dan", and then he wagon hops onto the Dormio Wagon, stating in advanced he knew it would seem scummy, which is what Bard and Dormio picked up on.
This is immediately followed by them avoiding discussing each other's status (Dan says Serela is null, then later admits he has a good case on him, but then later they both arbitrarily decide the other is never-lynch-town.)

In 197, Serela tries to put forth that Active Dan is obviously town, but admits in the same point that scummy activity is still scummy - which is a weird half-stance to take. It feels like he's trying to ignore Dan's content for the sake of not lynching dan and saying he's town at the same time, which discourages other players from looking into it.

As for Sky, He's mostly clean. He sometimes grills both Serela and Dan, and I feel the way he talks to dan indicates that he wants Dan to give more information for the sake of town, which is most likely not scum fueled, especially since Dan is already being active - a scum partner wouldn't have to remind him to post more in this game.

Basically, I think the scum team has to be-wait, we won already? When did this happen? Why am I still reading the game then?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 12, 2014, 05:01:02 PM
That was five hours well spent. :V
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2014, 05:03:12 PM
Quote
but admits in the same point that scummy activity is still scummy - which is a weird half-stance to take
This would have been a misrep anyway, I never said Dan's activity was scummy- I just meant that even if Dan's being active for once and that seems gloriously town, IF his content is scummy then yeah; it's followed by looking over Dan's content and deciding it wasn't
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 12, 2014, 05:07:15 PM
It's confirmed that scum have a Roleclop, you know...
But I was roleblocked Day one. :v

This would have been a misrep anyway, I never said Dan's activity was scummy- I just meant that even if Dan's being active for once and that seems gloriously town, IF his content is scummy then yeah; it's followed by looking over Dan's content and deciding it wasn't
That wasn't what I meant, I was trying to portray it as a sort of "I'm choosing to look at Dan on an Artificial level so I can say he's town without having an actual reason." I don't think your post actually stated that you thought his content was not scummy, but since it was ambiguous, it made for a really good point of attack.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 12, 2014, 05:14:03 PM
I feel pretty disappointed  :colbert:
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: O4rfish on June 12, 2014, 05:37:52 PM
I thought it was Dan and Zak.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
I'll look into it later tomorrow after I sleep. I still have to look over who of Sky or Serela is Dan's partner, which I'm not really looking forward to, especially since Dormio will be the NK if we lynch Dan.

Btw This was a huge slip as well that I would have pointed out in the post to Sky.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - Day 3 LYLO (Player 1's Turn)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 12, 2014, 05:58:17 PM
Also, since I'm a good person, I want to point this out for Sky in the future

Dormio wasn't a lynch candidate for today; it was always going to be ActionDan or Serela, because everybody knows I thought that Zakeri was town due to the Raikaria flip.

Not only that, but it's probably detrimental to get into scumpair theroies. One of my most successful scum games, I had paired myself up with Serela and buddied with him really hard, and my actual scum buddy has decided to wagon against Serela and buddy up with another townie. The Lylo ended with 2 out of five people voting for the Townies were buddies up with instead of me or my scumbuddy - Scum can weaponize scumpair theories very easily.

The 2/5 thing was confusing, but what I meant was that the lylo wagon ended up being on the two townies instead of us. Not only that, but If I hadn't been impaitient, I could have waited for the last townie to hammer one of them himself.

cut: Which part of that was a slip?
I'm guessing it was the forced reassurance that Dormio would die, which really didn't need to be stated but I subconsciously felt like it did.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: ActionDan on June 12, 2014, 06:11:23 PM
no it was the part about having to think about which of Serela/Sky was my buddy.  It had to be Serela.  town!Zak = Scum!Dan = Cop!Dormio = Innocent!Sky.

You might not have thought of that if you were scum immediately
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Conqueror on June 12, 2014, 06:54:18 PM
dan couldnt have been more obvtown i dont know how anyone thought he was scum this game  ???

also dormio's scumtell is that he's a complete ass for no reason :V

anyway gg
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Polaris on June 12, 2014, 06:58:37 PM
also yeah, getting a tic-tac-toe on the board would have been an autowin, but I ignored all questions on it because I didn't want you guys to ignore scumhunting for the tic-tac-toe. If the tic-tac-toe happened to coincidentally occur as a side effect of scumhunting or nightkilling then it would be funnier, after all.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Schezo on June 12, 2014, 07:04:44 PM
also yeah, getting a tic-tac-toe on the board would have been an autowin, but I ignored all questions on it because I didn't want you guys to ignore scumhunting for the tic-tac-toe. If the tic-tac-toe happened to coincidentally occur as a side effect of scumhunting or nightkilling then it would be funnier, after all.
I thought you would have o set up for a win and make x make a stupid move if a scum was lynched.  I didn't think anyone controlled that board at all???
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Polaris on June 12, 2014, 07:28:40 PM
I thought you would have o set up for a win and make x make a stupid move if a scum was lynched.  I didn't think anyone controlled that board at all???

Oh, I guess only the players might have known, but each player was a space (9 players = 9 spaces), and lynching a player meant placing an O in that player's space, while nightkilling a player meant placing an X in that player's space.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 12, 2014, 08:10:25 PM
no it was the part about having to think about which of Serela/Sky was my buddy.  It had to be Serela.  town!Zak = Scum!Dan = Cop!Dormio = Innocent!Sky.

You might not have thought of that if you were scum immediately
I completely forgot about the other result Dormio claimed until this post.
yeah I guess it did point to me being his scumbuddy.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 12, 2014, 08:24:32 PM
i dunno how town lost this, i figured it pretty obviously had to be dormizak for the reasons serela pointed out. also town!dormio would've been shot over rawr and zak just felt like scum to me skimming. too bad i couldn't lylo herosub
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: SB on June 12, 2014, 08:46:16 PM
dan couldnt have been more obvtown i dont know how anyone thought he was scum this game  ???

yeah this lol

you don't make two enemies as scum in lylo when you only need to make one
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: O4rfish on June 12, 2014, 08:49:48 PM
I thought it was because he was scum, but Dan posted a lot of rich content this game.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Raikaria on June 12, 2014, 09:28:53 PM
Well I was half right; Dormio was scum; and Zakeri was my 3rd choice. Unfortunetly the guy I thought was most scum was the cop. Can't get em all right ~_(._.)_~

Not sure how town screwed up LY... oh wait Serela was town and alive. It was pretty obvious that Dan was the legit cop. He did crumb on Rawr D2; and he checked Zakeri; while Dormio suddenly decided to check the guy he spent half of D2 defending for ??? reasons.

Also Zakeri basically won the game by lurking, and town mostly killed itself. As per usual.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 12, 2014, 09:55:51 PM
I appreciate the feedback some of you guys have posted.  Bard's in particular.  In hindsight it was so obvious. 

I am sorry for screwing up.  That's, what, three LYLO blow up's now?  How many do I need to catch up to Serela?
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Edible on June 12, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
You cannot hope to defeat Serela in a derp-off.  He is simply the best there is.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Polaris on June 12, 2014, 11:09:59 PM
Not sure how town screwed up LY... oh wait Serela was town and alive.

Please stop saying this.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 12, 2014, 11:25:08 PM
yeah for fuck's sake serela was on-point this lylo, dont be a jerk
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: BT on June 12, 2014, 11:32:40 PM
Serela being bad at LYLO was so at least a year ago.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 13, 2014, 12:06:09 AM
Quote
Also Zakeri basically won the game by lurking, and town mostly killed itself. As per usual.
I felt like I went through a transformation at the end of day 2, where I actually fought and voted to keep myself alive instead of just lurking through my own lynch.

On a somewhat related note, I'm totally going to use Tarot readings in future mafia games.

Also, I think serela handled the pressures of being town in lylo super well, not just compared to his usual meta but to motk's standard as well. There's a lot of weight on town to make the right decision since we only need one wrong vote to cock things up. There's always going to be the overwhelming urge to "Just get this game over with." Instead of waiting for everyone to go back and pick at the evidence (Such as My post, or Dan's pointing out that I had to make that post instead of trusting Dormio's results.)
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2014, 12:15:06 AM
also dormio's scumtell is that he's a complete ass for no reason :V
More like this has just been happening more since I starting playing DotA.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2014, 12:15:43 AM
yeah for fuck's sake serela was on-point this lylo, dont be a jerk
It was kind of hilarious when Dan pointed out my initial reaction to Dormio and I went "Oh that was just because... because..." and then realized the critical thinking part of my brain really does tend to turn off inexplicably in lylo and lead to me accidentally throwing the situation. Biggest example:Diablo Mafia, when scum!Shadoweh tried to hammer and super-derp-failed because of halved votepower and then I hammered for her.

Although yeah, I've been ruining lylo for like 4 years, you'll never catch up. But no seriously, it was during this game that I started to realize there are players whose existence in lylo will worry me greatly in general situations, the way others may (have previously) worried about me being in lylo :C

Re@Zak:I know better than to vote in lylo before everyone's even gotten a chance to talk! D:
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Bardiche on June 13, 2014, 01:02:32 AM
Bard's in particular.

What feedback?

I'd be happy that I snagged Zakeri as scum from Day 1, but my critical failure to convince people to ever see my way makes it pointless. If anyone has any advice how to write a more compelling case, I'm all ears. At this point, I just don't know how to play this game properly; the only ability I seem to have is to avoid getting lynched, and that's only helpful as scum. See: day 7 miracle.


EDIT: Also, to Sky_Pal, and I mean this in the least offensive way possible (I just suck at wording it nicely so whatever):
The reason I prompted, "Are you on drugs?" and ridiculed you is because you have a strong tendency to collect a list of actual happenings in the game, then draw a conclusion that doesn't seem to flow naturally from the equation provided. It's like saying a2 + ... = c2, but we're never aware of what happens between plus and equals.

If you could succinctly add why you think the events flow naturally to your conclusion, I think it'd be easier to take your arguments serious. When you said, "I think Bardiche is scummy for not chainsaw defending Dormio", I had a hard time taking you serious because I could not follow the train of thought that generated that conclusion from the facts provided.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Sky_Paladin on June 13, 2014, 03:40:18 AM
In GYard you said, "If a member makes a half-hearted attempt to discredit a case,
that is a compelling scumteam argument,
because scumteams generally don't want to lynch each other,
so a half-hearted attempt actually argues a case of Dormio/Zak."

Sign me up for the same thing as Bard. 

For me, I was disillusioned after I failed to convince anybody to vote Dormio after he had been at L-1.  I gave up.  Players were town clearing him all over the place. 

I don't know how to do it, Bard.  After I fail to persuade people what I feel is the natural way, I have to try to artificially do it using some kind of data.  I understand your criticism. 

I think I'll keep my analysis out of the thread from now, and at least until I can get some accurate scum picks under my belt, try to resist from saying what is and isn't scummy.  I'm happy I picked Dormio day 1 and was on the right lynch day 2, but there was never any reason to hammer day 3 when I was sleep deprived.  I was just impatient.  It was a pretty retarded thing.  I'm unhappy with the result because if I had just slept on it and re-read Zak's post, I probalby would have gotten there. 

Instead I ignored my own advice, my own feelings, and my own logic to come to the wrong conclusion.  I'm pretty demoralized.  I was even strongly considering gambiting confirm guilty on Dormio day 2 but I thought "That would be throwing the game for a jerk reason."  After the last game, where I picked Urist/Birds from interactions on day 1 and day 2, and the masons pair, I thought, you know, I thought I was on to something good.  I tried so hard but I was just wasting my time for most of it.  I think next game, well, I'm not gonna afk, but wall posts aren't effective at getting a message across, and I spend so much time for nothing...I don't know. 

Congratulations to the scum team for your victory.  You earned it. 
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Raikaria on June 13, 2014, 12:26:45 PM
It's not that it is Serela's fault.

It's that when Serela is alive at LYLO; town loses. It may or may not be Serela's fault; indeed; recently it has not been Serela's fault, but it's like a bad luck charm or a running theme or something.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2014, 12:58:48 PM
Well originally the joke was because it seriously was almost always, by a decent chunk, my fault >_> (Or entirely)

I think I've won 2 lylos in the 4~ years I've been playing here and the thing is, I /in for basically every single game and it's pretty uncommon for me to get lynched or nightkilled (so I make it to lylo whenever it happens), which is kind of stunning no matter how you think about it. This isn't counting that recently when I roll scum I've been doing great :D
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 14, 2014, 02:47:43 AM
it's pretty uncommon for me to get lynched
this can be fixed

also i've NKed you like three times.
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2014, 03:07:36 AM
I'm p.sure I've only been nk'd like 2 times, it must have been you for every single one!
Title: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia - GAME END
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2014, 11:02:24 PM
I also don't get lynched often, Serela, so I guess that means we're on the same level! *highfive*

Serela now my bro.