-
Welcome to the resting place of our library, dear visitor.
So you are one of the many writers that have made our library such a wonderful place?
Or are you a new visitor that has yet to write their first work?
No matter who you are, you must be tired from your hard work, I can imagine.
Here, let me serve you a tea.
Are you searching for inspiration?
Are you yearning to learn more about the working habits of your fellow writers?
Do you want to discuss the noble deed that the creation of literary works is?
Then this is the place you have been searching for.
By request from Tengukami, this thread is supposed to be a general discussion thread for Patchouli's Scarlet Library.
You have an idea for something but want the opinions of other people before starting your work?
You want to know how your fellow writer's work?
You need inspiration?
You want to discuss writing fiction in general?
You want to write something for the first time and don't know how to start?
You are looking for someone to proofread a story you're writing?
Here is the place for all of this and much more.
Important News:
Additionally, as of August 23rd, we now have an IRC channel as well, where you can relax, get to know your fellow writers, discuss fiction and writing and much more~
The channel is #scarlet-library on irc.ppirc.net
For those that have no IRC-experience, you can easily connect via TSO's handy webchat feature (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=scarlet-library). Just enter a name and hit 'connect'.
See you around~
-
FIRST
Kidding.
To kick this off, I've lately been rediscovering the ancient tools that our ancestors refered to as "pencil and paper". Work leaves me with long stretches without much to do, but no computer. So I write in a spiral notepad, using a pencil, which is neater than a pen when it comes to edits. Then when I come home, I type up my progress.
Even though this process started out of necessity, I've found it can really help me flesh out ideas. After an initial outline, writing it in pencil gets down a rough draft. As I type, I polish, and it really starts to come together. Or rather, huge chunks of the story get cut out.
How about you guys? What's your process?
-
Personally I'm a case of 'Get idea, open Wordpad, let stuff flow'. I pretty much go for everything in one draft, though I go back and make minor edits where I see necessary.
-
Whoo, I've always wanted one of these threads. Thanks for the idea Tengu.
What's my process? It's kind of a weird one. Whenever I'm in the shower, I bounce characters off each other as I throw them into a situation to see how they react. My stories are more character based than plot based. I first see how the characters react to a situation, and if I can see it being interesting, I try to see how they can get into that situation by staying in character. For some reason, I can only come up with new content if I thought it up in the shower or right before bed. You know that one scene in Lucky Star with Hiyori as she forgets her great ideas when she waits in the bath, or in bed? I feel that all the time. :V
I tend to have certain characteristics for each character and as I have them interact, I sometimes discover new aspects of that character. For example, to me, Reimu seems to be kind of a lazy tsukkomi who can take a joke. She's nice to friends and is neutral to strangers, kinda introverted. Meanwhile Marisa is more outgoing, and boisterous. She frequently is amused by jokes that target Reimu, and although she doesn't really pull pranks, she's more than willing to be amused.
By the way Sakana, you misspelled the second "library" in your post.
-
I did write things by hand before, but I prefer getting to work on the PC immediately.
That is because I'm so lazy that I tend to let the hand-written notes lie around without typing them into the PC...
By the way Sakana, you misspelled the second "library" in your post.
Ffff.... thanks for poiting that out, will be fixed immediately.
-
For some reason, I can only come up with new content if I thought it up in the shower or right before bed. You know that one scene in Lucky Star with Hiyori as she forgets her great ideas when she waits in the bath, or in bed? I feel that all the time. :V
Haruki Murakami has said that he gets some of his best ideas while ironing shirts, so you sound pretty normai by comparison.
-
I used to use a lot of handwritten notes, but I find myself near a computer almost all the time now, so if I have enough time to write something down it usually goes down in digital format. Which is a good thing because one of my projects has to be online now.
As for how I write? My usual pattern is a flash of brilliance that I jot down, followed by me laboriously figuring out how to get to that point, or how to finish the story after it. I've found having people to bounce ideas off of helps a lot in that part.
Where my ideas come from? Sometimes I have something I want to do. My first fic came because I wanted to write a Cirno - Letty piece that sorta followed canon.
Other times I just have something cross my mind, like "what would the rest of Gensoukyo have to say about free access to Makai." Things sorta snowballed from there....
-
I love writing fiction, but I don't plot it out well.
I'll come up with some sort of an event that happens part of the way through the plot, but getting up to there is the hard part. Getting my intro, establishing characters, and then somehow carrying those characters up to that particular plot point without being boring. I stop halfway and go 'ehhhhhh' because it doesn't seem as fun as I would have liked it to be in my head.
Also, I'm not sure if I should write in first or third person. Hm.
-
Basically everything I write is a quick flash of "hey, what if I wrote this." Occasionally I'll make a little web with a basic plot outline (characters, setting, major events, etc), but most of the time I just sit down and write in MSWord until I'm done. :V
-
The first chapter I did I wrote it down. Well half of it really.
The rest I just type whatever comes out, and do some small research as I think about it if necessary.
-
Thanks to Ammy mentioning about how he writes out his stories at work on paper, I decided to try that myself (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6649/delicioustea.png) today. I hope to have this fic finished on paper and then typed up by V-Day. Enjoy your sneak preview!
Yes, I leave the "e" off of "the" for some reason. -_-
-
Thanks to Ammy mentioning about how he writes out his stories at work on paper, I decided to try that myself (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6649/delicioustea.png) today. I hope to have this fic finished on paper and then typed up by V-Day. Enjoy your sneak preview!
Yes, I leave the "e" off of "the" for some reason. -_-
WOO!!!
I'm now inspired to work on my fic again...
...
...but I don't like writing ;_;
-
Posting here to avoid cluttering the official thread.
Oh great, now you've reminded me of Kenji from School Rumble and his swordfish pen >:|
I loved School Rumble~ If I could write comedy like that, I certainly would.
...And now that I've broached the subject: I've been toying with the idea of putting an Ijiyatsu SanaJana Adventure into words for a while, but I haven't really written anything creative before. What kind of things do you writers do to relax and let ideas flow?
-
...And now that I've broached the subject: I've been toying with the idea of putting an Ijiyatsu SanaJana Adventure into words for a while, but I haven't really written anything creative before. What kind of things do you writers do to relax and let ideas flow?
I tend to walk or pace. Movement helps clear my mind and let it wander. This can be a problem when I want to write stuff down, but I've got past a lot of writer's blocks that way.
-
1. Play awesome music
2. Stare at textbook
3. Awesome ideas flow
4. Get no studying done
:coolvee:
-
My process consists of
1. get inspired for one big long plot
2. write huge swaths at once
3. get bogged down with one part that gives me trouble/distractions
4. write nothing for months
5. repeat!
-
Ffff.... thanks for poiting that out, will be fixed immediately.
thanks for poiting that out
poiting that out
poiting
:V Love you
I typically conjure up ideas as I'm listening to music. If I have good, neutral music with no lyrics (lol touhou music) I can use it as a foundation for a scene. I think visually, not literally - I picture things happening as you'd see them happen, not read them described. Most of my works are dialogue based with little descriptions of what the characters do while they're talking. I'm trying to get out of this habit, though - it can quickly kill the flow of a story if its just a bunch of talking.
The music, to me, is like thinking 'what could happen in a scene that used this as background music?' If I need motivation/ideas for something, I track down music appropriate to the feeling I want to convey then run it into the ground (my brother is sick and tired of 'Legend of Green Eyes', which I listened to repeatedly to come up with the Reading Lesson scene in Everlasting Wanderers) until I get an idea and flow in my mind.
-
poiting
:V Love you
Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *loads shotgun and aims at keyboard* Okay, you do exactly what I tell you now, or I'll replace you, understood?
On topic: I can get ideas from pretty much everything (movies, games, books), but there's two things that work especially well:
1) Music. Whenever I listen to music I start to imagine stories or specific scenes that fit it, which can become an idea for writing later.
2) Nonsense-talking with friends. Whenever me and my friends turn off reason and let our crazy ideas flow, hilarity ensues. I could write a ton of crazy fanfiction about the games 'Mount&Blade' and 'Dynasty Warriors 6' simply from the stupid ideas we had while playing those games. We even kind of created our own personal memes from that... :V
-
Yeah, bouncing ideas around with friends is good for that. The first Touhou fanfic I wrote - Down On the Corner - was born from a bunch of us in IRC making jokes about a pic someone found on Danbooru of Cirno 'enjoying' a table corner.
-
My ideas pretty much come from out of nowhere; I'm a pretty spur of the moment guy you can say. I do like to plan those ideas out a bit though. Even Stupid Random Crap was planned out in places, though most of it was made up on the fly. Flying Rainbows wasn't well planned at all, not to mention missing the one thing that made separates the cream from the crap: passion. In addition to inspiration and planning, one must have passion, or the other two are irrelevant.
Speaking of planning, my next big projects (my next long fic, along with an original character story, possibly a VN) are getting detailed written on the fly plot synopsis before I begin the final products. Hopefully this will lead to less mistakes and more cohesive plots (large chunks of FoTUF got HUEG revisions as a result of bad planning/not liking how it felt anymore/etc, and I'm hoping to avoid this, next go around).
-
Outlining definitely saves you time, and frees up brainpower to focus on details, as you have the bones of your work on paper.
-
I guess I'll try an outlining approach. I'm not really much at the creative arts.
Thanks for the tips~
-
in before Sakana
-
I guess I'll try an outlining approach. I'm not really much at the creative arts.
Good luck~
I'd love to see some Ijiyatsu JanaSana someday soon :D
in before Sakana
I'm being stalked... :'(
-
JanaSana Sakana, Banana-fana-bo-bana, fee fi fo fana, um ...
-
I've been keeping this as a practice, since I draw a lot of sketches, think of something amusing about it.
If I got a spark of an idea, I'll open Office, write a lot of things that I have in the head atm and then leave it for a while. After I got another, I'll expand it, copy and pasting wherever suitable. This have been the base of Technical School Stories and Touhou Kuroneko onwards.
And my ideassss~
I've seen a lot of Outside World bounded to Gensokyo... So how about we do things the OPPOSITE way.
I've thought that Yukari had been fooling around, and her victim is none other than Alice and her dolls (including the Goliath doll, whom she was working on after the Hisoutensoku events), who were gapped to the Outside World.
I wonder how tall Goliath Doll was, two storeys high? The image of her standing next to the Petronas Twin Towers / Suria KLCC makes me laugh.
-
I'm really quite bad at coming up with ideas, so very often I ask on IRC actually if people have ideas for a short they'd like to see written, and I work from there.
When I do get an idea for myself though, typically it turns into a longer fanfic, something like "A Certain Mystical Square" or "You Are the Fairies!"
That sort of stuff is rough though, because I don't have any idea for what any of the jokes are going to be. So everything is made up on the spot. It... works out fairly well, but I think that's because I go for "stupid" funny.
My writing technique is bad though. I go into the forums, hit the reply button, and type out the entire story there. So like, my UD and Ruukoto/Parsee stories were both written in one go, no editing, on the reply function. Pretty bad way to do it lol.
-
Well I usually work on my fic at school because I'm normally distracted by anything else. I'm a huge procrastinator >.>
Which is why I haven't been able to do much on my fic atm. Before my period 2 spare had none of my friends, so I just go in the library and work on it to kill time.
Now that spare doesn't exist. It's just my lunch period where most of my friends are, so I'm usually distracted by them.
-
My writing technique is bad though. I go into the forums, hit the reply button, and type out the entire story there. So like, my UD and Ruukoto/Parsee stories were both written in one go, no editing, on the reply function. Pretty bad way to do it lol.
That's how I usually add excerpts to my stories - by typing them directly into the post. I go back and proofread before hitting submit, then I go and read it again to see if I missed anything.
If I'm going on a roadtrip or something and know my brother will be driving, I'll bring my other laptop and write on the trip (I'm immune to motion-sickness induced by reading/writing while in motion) and when everything is all done up, I just copy it straight to the forums here. Yes, I write in BBCode in my word documents when I'm writing to submit here.
Only exception is the 'short' that I'm working on, which I'm not gonna post until I finish it and it passes my own standard of approval.
-
You guys writing directly into the Reply field are pretty brave. I have to write it on a doc, and read it over at least once before posting it on my blog. And even then I won't link to it until I've read it at least one more time after that.
-
I'll write on the reply page only for shorts. 'Serious' (and by that, I mean long winded stuff- mainly full-length long fics) stuff gets done in Open Office Writer before hand.
-
Don't even talk to me about writing...
I start by getting this idea that I really like, start writing and feel like I'm actually doing something with my creativity. Then I slack off and start hating myself and so begins the vicious cycle of stopping on a perfectly good fic and starting another that's destined for the same fate.
I like Mystic Mutation though so I won't let it fall like the many others...I just need to write a fucking update for once...and redo the beginning because it's not good at all. >_>
Also, I write all of my fiction stuff in Wordpad only. I don't even touch Word anymore for some reason.
-
I feel with you Erebus. I tend to start things on the spur of the moment and then never finish them as well.
-
Word. |3
Minus the self-loathing part.
-
Motivation is the key for me to finish writing an story related to A fandom I like to write in. I tend to go overboard with dark themes in most of my stories. That and Parodies and Crossovers are my most favorite kinds of stories I only do.
-
Oh yeah, an idea's been semi-forming in my mind for a while now, but: what if we had some kind of system for recruiting beta-readers? They'd be people who'd proofread, assess general story-quality ("Why does the Colonel act so hostile towards Snake? It makes no sense!") and so on, and be trusted to do things like not blab "Man, in Muffin's next story, Kogasa acts stereotypically French!" on IRC before the story's release.
-
That's a pretty good idea. I suppose you could always PM the writers and readers you trust and ask.
-
I was actually thinking we could use this thread here as one place to recruit proofreaders as well. You could just post 'Hey, I need someone to read my new story, PM me' in here. And maybe you could also give a short description of what awaits people, to spark more interest.
-
That sounds like an smashing idea! :)
-
There would also be the possibility to make a specific 'I need proofreaders' thread, but looking at the number of views this thread here has, I think enough people will see requests here. And if not, someone can always post a link to the requests here on IRC, that should definitely work. I will add a notion for this use of the thread to the OP.
-
I'm rather biased towards well-written stories, rather than ones with poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation - I'm kind of a grammar nazi myself, and try my best to proofread everything I write.
I'd be willing to be a story-tester, or at the very least an editor/proofreader.
-
I might think about participating in that too. Poor grammar is kind of a story-killer for me, and I'll see if I can find some time to look over people's stories for grammatical purposes.
-
I'd be willing to ask a hand or two in looking over Touhou Kuroneko for errors and such.
And in turn I'll proofread other fics if requested.
-
I already have Ruro proofreading my fic.
<3 Ruro.
-
Be great to have someone look over Redefined Fantastic Object ch2, since only one of the three people I PM'ed on IRC actually looked it over!
-
Be great to have someone look over Redefined Fantastic Object ch2, since only one of the three people I PM'ed on IRC actually looked it over!
I'll look over it if you'd like, just PM me. I don't go on IRC though. Would that be detrimental in any way?
-
I could probably use a proofreader for my fics, I always miss the minor grammar shit in a piece which really annoys me (before you say anything, yes I proofread things myself, in this case I suck ass at it).
This being said, I'm not much for proofreader material >_>
Ideas are another story though and I can help with those (I guess),
-
I usually write whatever that comes to my mind, quite occassionally this changes for the better when I feel like I am in the mood.
I would write down ideas and then link them, lately I am grabbing a lot of inspiration from denzel washington movies.
-
Ooh, beta reading. I'd definitely volunteer for that. I'm a better editor than I am a writer, and it always frustrates me that I can never get much fic done myself, so I'd be happy to contribute what I can.
-
Just a notice - I'll be busy over the next few days, a little too busy to read every single thread, so if anyone comes across anything that Shiki might frown on then please PM me and let me know. Thanks in advance for the help~
I'll still be around, just not as rigorously vigilant as I should be.
-
Just a notice - I'll be busy over the next few days, a little too busy to read every single thread, so if anyone comes across anything that Shiki might frown on then please PM me and let me know. Thanks in advance for the help~
Order received. Leave it to us. :)
-
Order received. Leave it to us. :)
Very good, sold-...I mean, Librarian! Keep it up!
-
@Sukima: Yeah, the Librarians have been given post editing powers, and if that's not enough, then the Janitors are really easy to harass to action.
And somehow, I just thought of PatchCon-style fiction. You know, Librarian Squad and all...
-
And somehow, I just thought of PatchCon-style fiction. You know, Librarian Squad and all...
Do it!
-
And somehow, I just thought of PatchCon-style fiction. You know, Librarian Squad and all...
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7238/patchcon1.jpg)
~Bloomers of Our Mikos~
The pic was supposed to have them standing atop a pile of books but I never finished it. It was supposed to be concept art for a doujin I had cooking in my head.
-
I dare you to remake that picture with Sanae and faith power items.
But yes, wouldn't it be good for the Librarian Squad to have some... mice try and take a book or two? Would serve as a nice source of conflict. And catness scores.
-
But yes, wouldn't it be good for the Librarian Squad to have some... mice try and take a book or two? Would serve as a nice source of conflict. And catness scores.
>:3
Tell us if you want some help, 'cause this needs to be written. (I was thinking about making Touhou/Librarian crossover fiction someday, seems you've beaten me to it.)
-
Tell us if you want some help, 'cause this needs to be written. (I was thinking about making Touhou/Librarian crossover fiction someday, seems you've beaten me to it.)
You should write it. My last experience with Librarian fiction taught me that I like meta references more than I probably should. And also I'm busy working on other things, like Lord of the Rings/Touhou parodies (hi UD).
Hey, didn't you say you were doing something concerning Rumia's Party Games vs Patchouli's Scarlet Library? Well, there's your plot.
-
You should write it. My last experience with Librarian fiction taught me that I like meta references more than I probably should.
Hey, didn't you say you were doing something concerning Rumia's Party Games vs Patchouli's Scarlet Library? Well, there's your plot.
Eh? Well, I can try. Will have to write the second half of Librarian's Day first, but I have a plan for that. After that I can try Librarians vs. Patchy. And PSL vs. RPG is something I plan to do seperately after that.
But before that, I should get back to my actual Librarian duties and finally summarize A-F's fic :/
Lord of the Rings/Touhou parodies
:*
Oh hell yes. I'm looking forward to that.
-
PSL vs. RPG
Oh god conflicting interests :S
-
Oh god conflicting interests :S
A good quarter of the full squad does frequent both, after all.
-
A good quarter of the full squad does frequent both, after all.
Tell me about it. Pesco already considers me RPG property :V
-
Oh god conflicting interests :S
A good quarter of the full squad does frequent both, after all.
Your true allegiance lies with the Library, with Ruro and Gappy-chan. Search your feelings, you know it to be true, for within your veins flows the blood... OF A LIBRARIAN~! RAAAAAGH!
Moerin knocks bookshelves on top of any dissenters~
<Sakana> Oh no, you don't. No one rampages in our Library. :D
Tell me about it. Pesco already considers me RPG property :V
Global Mod > Gensokyo Cop. Choose your allegiances wisely, Fishman~
-
Gap visits RPG as well, ya know. :V
-
Gap visits RPG as well, ya know. :V
I'm a godmother too ^^;;
And a resident artist, gensokyo cop and librarian...
....what does that make me?
-
I'm a godmother too ^^;;
And a resident artist, gensokyo cop and librarian...
....what does that make me?
A goddess, obviously.
And I fixed Moerin's post :V
-
I'm a godmother too ^^;;
And a resident artist, gensokyo cop and librarian...
....what does that make me?
Too good for this impure Earth~
Gap visits RPG as well, ya know. :V
As do I, and yet I still side with the library. This may or may not be due to the fact that my two favourite girls frequent here. Ahem.
Uh... Where was I? Um... Oh yeah... LIBRARIANS! TONIGHT! WE DINE! IN H-
/me is shot.
Ow...
-
Hm, and with this, I now have a lot more knowledge about the connections of the characters with RPG. Thanks for helping with a future plot, everyone~ ;)
-
Oh dear.
-
How does one apply to join the librarian squad anyhow?
-
How does one apply to join the librarian squad anyhow?
I accept cash, check, or strawberries money order.
-
How does one apply to join the librarian squad anyhow?
Fill the red form
-
Right. So. It seems a comedy piece that I started to write decided that it wanted to be erotica instead. Not an unprecedented affair - I've written my share of erotica before - but this would be a first for me as far as using Gensokyans is concerned.
For that reason, I'd like another set of eyes for this story before I post it. As it's erotica, there will be sexual situations, albeit focusing more on the internal than on who put what body part where (though that is a part of it).
So who's up for it?
-
A goddess, obviously.
...err...what? Really?
/me tries to part the sky
/me gets rained on for one whole day
....err, no, don't think so... ^^;;
Too good for this impure Earth~
Are you telling me I should go and live on Mars? ^^;;;
XD
-
Right. So. It seems a comedy piece that I started to write decided that it wanted to be erotica instead.
It's probably a good idea to post it on your own site and merely link to it, then. There's rules against 18+ material being directly hosted on this server.
Are you telling me I should go and live on Mars? ^^;;;
No, the moon, silly!
-
It's probably a good idea to post it on your own site and merely link to it, then. There's rules against 18+ material being directly hosted on this server.
He already does that. As I interpreted Ammy's post, though, he was asking for a proofreader. I have read erotica before, at UD's request (SakuRei, to be exact) to review it, so I'll take the job if no one else volunteers.
-
Ah. I didn't realize who it was because he randomly changed his name to something that didn't remotely resemble "Tengukami" and I don't pay religious attention to peoples' signatures. :V
-
WELL YOU SHOULD
-
I think I need some advice about my fic http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5131.0
I know it sounds like a manga without pictures, but I can't make less dialogue when they talk a lot.
Let's have a barley tea first :V
-
You guys are good peoples. I'll sweep your floors anyday. :3
Hey, what's the general opinion on stories with images? I was thinking about the idea of writing something and maybe adding in images in certain spots for effect, or maybe inserting an image or two into past works if I find something that really fits. Just wondering if there's any people who think that detracts from the fiction or doesn't like it for some reason.
-
I wish we saw more of it to be honest. As long as one does not freaking spam them every page that is. Less is more.
-
Finding a proper image was actually one of the fun things about posting on poolsh. I thought it made a work stand out if it had a good enough pic attached. Admittedly there standing out was a requirement to be seen....
I like the idea if it's a fitting enough pic. Then again I haven't seen it in action yet....
-
I'm the kind of guy who writes stories for which there usually is no appropriate picture. And my own skills in terms of art are nonexistent, so :V
-
Alright. Because I admit, this image probably had something to do with influencing me to write the story I did, and I'm looking forward for the perfect moment to implement it. Hehe.
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6006/badassbyakuren.th.png) (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/badassbyakuren.png/)
-
Finding a proper image was actually one of the fun things about posting on poolsh. I thought it made a work stand out if it had a good enough pic attached.
Well said. Posting straight text never sat well with me. Also, it helped you get past the spamfilter.
I myself like posting images with stories. However, since it's hard to do that every time, because there is not exactly an overabundance of pictures with Shikieiki and Yumemi in them, I have taken to drawing accompanying pictures myself. (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=7617589) It's good to be a writer who can do her own art. :3
-
I'd personally get a big kick out of it. Having an illustration every couple of pages always helps guide you through the story, in my opinion.
Then again, I grew up on those novel-sized kids books. Just about every 20 pages or so had a picture for the chapter at hand, and they always did the text justice.
If I could draw worth a damn, I'd have some pictures linked in EverWander. I've already attempted drawing Acied's flight form, and Sara's harp (remember, they're not from around here. Even their harps are different) but I can't draw for shit so I never took a picture/scanned it in. I'd LOVE to have an artist wander through here so I could snatch him and get some storyboard-esque images sketched up for EverWander.
That's just me, of course. A story COULD stand perfectly fine on its own - look at all the epic-length fics we have here already - but everyone loves a pretty picture. Or badass picture.
-
The combination of image and text is always a good, it gives the audience something a bit more interesting and colorful to look at while their reading. I've always thought about adding such a thing to my stories but there is one simple reasons why I never bothered...
1) Lazy ass prick.
I can draw, don't think I can't. But my slothful nature prevents me from even trying to draw a decent picture for my works.
Honestly, I can't read straight text when in book form, as in full length novels. It ALWAYS puts me to sleep. I need pictures to look at to keep me interested otherwise I'll get bored and fall asleep while reading. When reading things online, it's not much as falling asleep as it is 'constantly putting off on reading it'.
-
Each story on my blog is accompanied with an image.
-
Each story on my blog is accompanied with an image.
I'd prolly need to start adding image links to my Kuroneko fanfic.
-
To be honest, I do this because it's a blog. There's one entry per page, because even though the stories I write tend to hover around the 2000 word mark, which takes the average reader 10 or 15 minutes to read, in blog format it means scrolling. An image pretties it up, like the bow you put on a gift.
-
That sounds good, but like, can we put other's picture in our fic? Like Erebus and Roukanken said, some don't draw :(
It's nice to have a picture in a wall of text to lighten the mood... I love it when reading Haruhi.
-
I use images I find on Pixiv. I then give credit by linking to the original at the end of the story.
-
Oh yes, I remember that. I spent the whole night reading your fics xD Good stuffs
But it does look like only fitting for blog, I mean, the formatting of the page.
Posting in forums like MoTK may better be edited, like our signatures, short and wide.
Most pictures out there are portrait-like (high and freaking big) so it will cause some difficulty.
-
Well, Ruro, the rough draft of the erotica piece is complete. I just need to type it up. You still up for being a beta tester?
-
Well, Ruro, the rough draft of the erotica piece is complete. I just need to type it up. You still up for being a beta tester?
Sure. I'll admit that half the reason I wanted to do this is because I'd like to see if it's possible to pull off erotica in Touhou without it seeming artificial, forced. But I have faith in you, Ammy \o\
I gotta say, thanks for posting about writing rough drafts on paper. It's great fun to write out the first five-six pages during breaks at school, and it helps get my thoughts organized in a way that just typing wouldn't.
-
Well, writing first on paper was born from loads of free work time and no computer. But I've always outlined.
As for the ero piece, let's say it's less about sex than sexuality. If that makes sense. Anyway, we'll see how it flies.
-
RURO! It's all your fault! ;_; I'm having problems focusing on anything without my mind drifting off and daydreaming about all the things I want to write about to expand my story. I think you infected me with the writers bug. >_> Also the Shiki and Byakuren bug too.
Another thing that's been on my mind.. What do people think about background music? My muse is fueled by the music that I use as the backdrop for the scenes I want to put to paper, and I'm wondering how best to implement that in my upcoming fiction. Youtube links inserted at certain points in the writing? Any other ideas?
-
RURO! It's all your fault! ;_; I'm having problems focusing on anything without my mind drifting off and daydreaming about all the things I want to write about to expand my story. I think you infected me with the writers bug. >_> Also the Shiki and Byakuren bug too.
Didn't I warn you beforehand? It's those Yamathrocytes, people. :3
As for background music; I don't recall the last time I saw music referred to in the writing. Oh, wait. Erebus' Mystic Mutation did that. Apart from that, though, I've never seen links to the music in writing. I suppose it'd be fun to try out. Isn't internet writing great fun when it comes to doing new things?
Well, there is one thing I have to say for music. I tend to write battles and action sequences to music. Something about the dynamism of a powerful song makes my heart race and the story flow. I will someday write a battle with Ryougi Shiki's MBAA theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUyaBEaFI-4) in the background, just you watch!
-
If anyone ever write about the First Moon War, don't forget to put THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2vzAKzagG8) as bgm. Totally epic, LoTR bows.
-
http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2vzAKzagG8"
I think you messed up the URL there.
-
Well, there is one thing I have to say for music. I tend to write battles and action sequences to music. Something about the dynamism of a powerful song makes my heart race and the story flow.
I actually wrote the whole of TnT listening to Cosmic Mind, Fate of 60 Years, and Emotional Skyscraper on loop. :V
-
How? I did it many times but ended up mumbling to the melody >_> Could never concentrate like that. I admit the music gave a lot of new ideas tho. Like when you're trying to make a pun but dunno how... suddenly "Eirin, Eirin!" :V
I think you messed up the URL there.
Sorry didn't know I have to leave the quote marks. Fixed.
-
listening to Cosmic Mind ... and Emotional Skyscraper on loop. :V
...Something seems off about this statement, but I can't put my finger on what exactly...
-
...Something seems off about this statement, but I can't put my finger on what exactly...
Obviously, the sheer awesome that Byakuren radiates has made it so that Nobu just can't get her theme out of his head. Fate of Sixty Years is the only other song that stands up to it, and so it remains separate. But I digress. :3
-
Yeah I've done the whole BGM in writing before for MM. Although, I pretty much abuse this mechanism in other works (like in my UGW games and such). I really like it when music is incorperated into fiction, for it helps me get into whatever event that's taking place. Choice of music for me is rarely Touhou-centric for some reason though and is usually what I'm listening too at the very moment I'm writing (I use music as a way to help me write and think).
All this being said, I can't wait til' I finally get to the point where Yumemi unveils the Ultimate Chimera
...because this will be playing. Swear to Shinki. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPx1XXu3m_U&NR=1)
Trust me, aside from sounding badass, the title itself can be emphasis on why I chose this
-
Ruro: The story's done. Check your PM's.
WRT background music: I can't do it. It either distracts me, or the emotion gets me so caught up that I can't rein in the story with the necessary restraint. Mind you, I'm writing most of these pieces at the office, where I'm surrounded by constant background chatter, and then typing these up at home, where my daughter will be playing her DVDs in the same room with me.
If I'm really into the process of writing, I tune everything out as much as possible anyway, so background music won't have any effect anyway.
-
I seem to have a problem with writing things chronologically. I have the next chapter in my fic almost done, but what I have in mind right now is a scene near the end of the fic, and I can't think of anything to finish up that chapter. It would suck if the next chapter was the final one done...
-
I seem to have a problem with writing things chronologically. I have the next chapter in my fic almost done, but what I have in mind right now is a scene near the end of the fic, and I can't think of anything to finish up that chapter. It would suck if the next chapter was the final one done...
Outlines. They really work.
-
Outlines. They really work.
Outlines are fine. Filling in the details of the story afterward is a bitch.
-
Obviously, the sheer awesome that Byakuren radiates has made it so that Nobu just can't get her theme out of his head. Fate of Sixty Years is the only other song that stands up to it, and so it remains separate. But I digress. :3
Oh whoops. I was thinking of 空の帰り道 ～ Sky Dream as 'Emotional Skyscraper' there for some reason. :V I needed the mellow song as a backdrop to the non-fighting scenes, and the character themes to embody Byakuren and Shiki (also doubled as an awesome backdrop to the fight scenes.)
Waaaa, I wish I didn't have so much schoolwork and stuff to do, I want to wriiiiiite ;__;
-
Ruro: The story's done. Check your PM's.
You got it, sah o> When do you want me to send you my thoughts?
I have the next chapter in my fic almost done, but what I have in mind right now is a scene near the end of the fic, and I can't think of anything to finish up that chapter. It would suck if the next chapter was the final one done...
Creative writing class taught me that if you really have that stuck in your head, write it down in a separate document. White Rose is known on my flash drive as chireiden.doc, but occasionally I get ideas and snippets from later in the planned timeline. Fearing that I will forget it, I write it down in chireiden_extras.doc and get it out of my head, leaving me free to go back to the relevant storyline. Give it a try, see what happens!
Waaaa, I wish I didn't have so much schoolwork and stuff to do, I want to wriiiiiite ;__;
You are one of us now. ONE OF US ONE OF US ONE OF US
-
You got it, sah o> When do you want me to send you my thoughts?
Just as soon as you can.
-
I cannot write with any sort of music playing at all. Much too distracting for me.
As for outlining, I'm doing precisely that for my next projects, including (especially) my next long Touhou fic. Really helps knock off those overlooked plotgaps and anemic feeling scenes.
-
On the subject of using images along with writing, I think it can really add to the story, as long as it's well-done and doesn't basically turn into a manga. I've drawn pictures for my LPs before, but I've never drawn for fanfiction before (although considering CmE is the first fanfic I've written in at least five years :V).
As for music, I don't like having it while I'm reading stories. It can help getting into the mood for writing (for example, I listened to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnlItwqST94) while trying to write a romantic scene one time), but it kind of ruins the experience of reading for me when I'm getting distracted by the music ):
-
Seeing as how Sara, from Everlasting Wanderers, is a musician, it wouldn't make much sense for me not to at least MENTION some kind of music. And I will admit, I've been listened to a lot of specific songs recently, and I'll link to them in the parts of the story that they've influenced (when I get around to writing them again >.>)
I'm toying with the idea of slipping a link into the story to play the music being played in-story at the time, but I don't know how well that'd work. I read hella-fast; I have no clue how fast or slow everyone else here reads, so I couldn't exactly get the timing right.
I suppose the best way to do something like this would be the 'more is less' approach that someone mentioned for pictures here; just post the song, and don't specifically mention when it ends in the story. Then, from there, don't go overboard with the music.
-
Ah Ruro!!!
What happened to my chapter!?
-
Ah Ruro!!!
What happened to my chapter!?
I forgot Wouldn't it count as breaking your vow of abstaining from Koishi if I sent you my review? >:D
But ah, you're right. I'll send you proofreading comments as soon as I get over this sudden head cold >_<
-
I forgot Wouldn't it count as breaking your vow of abstaining from Koishi if I sent you my review? >:D
Probably...>.>
But yeah, once the week is done I'll go over the review and post the next chapter.
Although I really didn't like this chapter, the next one is what I've been really been meaning to write up. It'll be very interesting >.>
-
If you're sick, Ruro, you can pass my story to another librarian. I didn't realize you had prior obligations there. But if you're still up for beta testing, go right ahead.
-
I'm up for beta-reading if anyone needs it.
-
I'm up for beta-reading if anyone needs it.
Alright, check your PM's. I don't want to add to Ruro's workload on top of her being sick.
-
Hm. Anyone else?
-
Uhm excuse me did I miss something? You sound like the fics should be read by the staff first o_o
I usually gather my thoughts and then make a draft, then turn it into a chapter and post it straight to the topic... It'd be lovely if I can send it to a librarian for some comment first.
-
Uhm excuse me did I miss something? You sound like the fics should be read by the staff first o_o
No, not at all. I was just trying something new and wanted a beta tester. Ruro volunteered.
And she is a critical genius. Thank you, Ruro.
-
If anyone has a long-running project going on (story-wise) that they need a beta reader for, I'm up for it. I can't guarantee speed, but I have efficiency.
-
And she is a critical genius. Thank you, Ruro.
You are quite welcome. Also, I finished proofing Gpop's latest chapter, so I am once again available for beta reading if anyone would like to throw a fic in my general direction.
-
Hoooly shit, actually started writing again!
But knowing me, I'll make a critical fuck up somewhere in this chapter so I'mma try this proof read thing you guys got goin on, when I'm done. Anyone can jump on it, so if your interested speak up and we'll see where things go from there.
-
Hey, glad to hear you're writing again. I can lend a pair of eyes, if you need.
-
Hey, glad to hear you're writing again. I can lend a pair of eyes, if you need.
Thanks, I'll be sure to send it to you whenever I get done with the chapter.
-
When writing fiction, be it original or fanfic, I brainstorm a general idea of what the plot will be; I don't go into too much detail, like, "Reimu does X." Then I'll start to write the story just from that. As I'm writing, ideas come to me; it's like I can't fully visualize the setting I'm writing unless if I'm actually writing it.Whatever ideas come to me from writing, I'll throw in, so long as they don't contradict my initial brainstorm. Most of my ideas come from doing this.
As for programs, I prefer Wordperfect for writing. I don't know why, I just do.
-
xm, if I'm interpreting that correctly, then you're pretty similar to me.
I don't plot out every individual scene as it'll happen - I just make it up as I sit down and write. The initial detail that defines the plot is the only consistent subject in the entire story; everything else flows and changes as it comes up, with the exception of a few plot important details that are relevant to making the endpoint come about.
-
Alright I've fixed up those things Ruro mentioned, and I will release the next chapter by Sunday, when my vow is complete!
-
I have a question.
How do you usually go about giving Touhou characters personalities?
It seems like there's not much canon about a lot of them to refer to so I find it difficult to go beyond simple "generic childlike" here and "generic slightly more mature" there and so on.
-
I have a question.
How do you usually go about giving Touhou characters personalities?
It seems like there's not much canon about a lot of them to refer to so I find it difficult to go beyond simple "generic childlike" here and "generic slightly more mature" there and so on.
What I do is this: I examine the canon personalities of the Touhou characters, then I examine their fanon personalities. I look for which one(s) I think suit the characters best. Sometimes, I mix and match canon and fanon personalities. I do also throw in my own little characterization quirks, but not to the point that the characters feel OOC.
Say, speaking of which, this has inspired me to fire up my Wordperfect program now . . .
-
I have a question.
How do you usually go about giving Touhou characters personalities?
It seems like there's not much canon about a lot of them to refer to so I find it difficult to go beyond simple "generic childlike" here and "generic slightly more mature" there and so on.
Read their backstory - the origins of their powers and how they fight, what motivates them to fight, stuff like that can be found there. Extrapolate from there - what kind of person would develop from such conditions?
-
I have a question.
How do you usually go about giving Touhou characters personalities?
It seems like there's not much canon about a lot of them to refer to so I find it difficult to go beyond simple "generic childlike" here and "generic slightly more mature" there and so on.
1 - Obsessively pour over game text.
2 - Obsessively pour over all the articles, game information and side material.
3 - Find what I hate about fanon and cut every trace of it out.
4- Season to taste.
I think I occationally am a little too serious about my writing.
-
1 - Obsessively pour over game text.
2 - Obsessively pour over all the articles, game information and side material.
3 - Find what I hate about fanon and cut every trace of it out.
4- Season to taste.
I think I occationally am a little too serious about my writing.
Only I'm allowed to admit that. I'm too serious about a lot of things, to be honest.
Totally.
-
I have a question.
How do you usually go about giving Touhou characters personalities?
It seems like there's not much canon about a lot of them to refer to so I find it difficult to go beyond simple "generic childlike" here and "generic slightly more mature" there and so on.
I start with cannon. All kind of possibilities can arise when you use game dialogue, BHiJR and other ZUN sources as your foundation. Fanfiction by its very nature adds new stories to a character that's already been developed and already has a story. So long as your fanfiction doesn't clash with the character's personality or backstory, you actually have a lot of freedom to work with.
And that's where we see how the author views the characters. "Based on what I know about Character X, I think she would do A, B and C." So rather than everyone's Kaguya or everyone's Cirno being exactly the same, they're all a bit different - we see them through the lens of the author.
I think that's one of my favorite things about fanfiction.
-
I have a question.
How do you usually go about giving Touhou characters personalities?
It seems like there's not much canon about a lot of them to refer to so I find it difficult to go beyond simple "generic childlike" here and "generic slightly more mature" there and so on.
For me it's based off their dialog, backstories, and comments, and what kind of personalities would allow those to make sense and tie everything together. It's more intuitive than anything.
-
[21:13] <Sakura-Rurouni> @choose base Yumeko's personality on thoughtfully-researched canon sources or make crap up
[21:13] <Keine> Sakura-Rurouni: I choose...make crap up! ^_^V
[21:13] <Sakura-Rurouni> 8)
Is how I roll, ese. >:D
I will never, ever admit to following canon. Ever. It's much more fun to pretend otherwise.
-
I will never, ever admit to following canon. Ever. It's much more fun to pretend otherwise.
I will never, ever admit to following canon. Ever. It's much more fun to pretend otherwise.
I will never, ever admit to following canon. Ever. It's much more fun to pretend otherwise.
I will never, ever admit to following canon. Ever. It's much more fun to pretend otherwise.
:o
-
I've seen too many people reject everything fanon out of hand on sheer basis of being fanon, Nobu. The cool thing to do these days is to declare yourself a devotee of canon, without interpretation or analysis or extrapolation from established traits, because that is stupid fanon practice. Such people do not use their brains and are just going with it because it's the "in" thing to do.
As for me: I am not going to be caught dead trying to be cool, so I actively subvert that mindset to hell and back. And I just plain like being contrary, too. :3
-
I've seen too many people reject everything fanon out of hand on sheer basis of being fanon, Nobu.
Huh, really? Maybe I just skim commentary too much.
Still I will admit fanon has brought us many good things. Like eel cart Mystia and Yuugi-Parsee. Hell, I did the "Shinki is Alice's adopted mother" bit. That's pure fanon, if not actively disproved, but I'm sticking to it.
There's just some fanon though that is mind blowingly awful (poor, poor Alice...) and my personal goal is to kill as much of it within the collective unconcious as I can.
Though for my current project I'm having to sacrifice some of my personal issues. Ah well.
-
Ah, to clarify: the GRR FANON IS BAD mindset is dying away, I think. It is, as most extreme mindsets are, more pervasive in the summer than at any other time; I spent long enough on imageboards and Touhou communities around the internet to see that it's more of a reactionary thing with the influx of kids fresh from school who see IOSYS and immediately consider memes and the like to be canon. (Yes, poor, poor Alice. Good thing SWR Alice is a cast-iron badass whom I positively adore.)
I am fond of using artistic license; I know full well that Alice being Shinki's daughter is not canon, but I also believe that it is better for Shinki's character if she is portrayed that way. She is a complex individual with feelings and desires; she must have a motivation to do what she does. I have, in this vein, tried to produce explanations for canon traits that may or may not have anything to do with ideas I borrow/steal from fanon.
A good example of this is how I see Koishi's spellcards; everyone always accuses them of being based on Freudian thought, right? In my view: Ancestors and Genetics are based on biological psychology, Philosophy of a Hated Person on humanistic theory, and Paranoia and Rorschach on cognitive psychology. Id, Superego, and the like are psychodynamic theory, of course. Subterranean Rose stands apart, based on no spoilers for you :?
. Scientific explanations are great fun, and a very good way to avoid being a fanon or canonfag sellout. I don't like the idea of accepting canon or fanon without thinking, so I take a middle route. (Of course, I am not above picking one or the other when it comes to comedy of extremes, where you take one trait and magnify it to its logical extreme. But I digress~ :3)
-
I try and follow canon for no other reason than I love the challenge it presents me to write an entertaining and engaging story about these girls, while staying true to their backstories and personalities. I don't frown upon fanon (even though "aya's a slut lol" was probably among the dumbest memes to arise) in general, and we've seen some great genre-crossing with the girls on this board. I just love the challenge of canon, is all.
-
Ah, to clarify: the GRR FANON IS BAD mindset is dying away, I think. It is, as most extreme mindsets are, more pervasive in the summer than at any other time; I spent long enough on imageboards and Touhou communities around the internet to see that it's more of a reactionary thing with the influx of kids fresh from school who see IOSYS and immediately consider memes and the like to be canon. (Yes, poor, poor Alice. Good thing SWR Alice is a cast-iron badass whom I positively adore.)
Ah yes. Outside the fiction areas there's a whole lot of that, true.
I think my personal obsession is because I want all of my stories to be true. For a lot of my stuff (barring the some of the quick humor bits) it's not just Zun's Gensoukyo, it's mine. And I feel it'll become someone elses vision of Gensoukyo better if I avoid things that break canon.
Then again I'm occationally a little too serious about this as I stated before.
-
And here I was just trying to tease you and reveal your tinytext, Ruro~n. :3 But this works too. Yeah, you and I are pretty much on the same wavelength on this (not that that's too surprising >_>;)
-
I usually hate alot of things fanon does to characters (like how they bastardized Wriggle with gender confusion and shit, I'll admit it that it's because of such a thing, and the other thing involving Yuuka, is one of the main reasons why I can't stand Wriggle now), so I try to avoid alot of the things they make up about the characters. I only follow at least one or two fanon theories or what not
and that's only because I have a fetish for it
. There will be times when I make up shit (Mystic Mutation for one. Think about it; A tropical, prehistoric jungle filled with dinosaurs, giant birds and chimerical hybrids in an otherwise temperate asian land? Yeah...
.)
So where does this all put me? I honestly don't know, I accept only two things from fanon tops, character, locations and other things ZUN has actually established I try to follow, everything else I pretty much do myself. I don't want to see Gensokyo the way fanon sees it as "lol there's no men, lol everyone's GAY, lol everything's going to kill you no matter what, lol PC98 doesn't exist, etc." All of this I pretty much say a big "Fuck that and fuck you" to and do my own thing.
Since this has something to do with fanon and writing fiction, I'd also like to get off my chest that being I write Touhou fiction that is actually straight, it pretty much restricts me to creating them (no, I don't like genderswapped Touhous either
), so I can't stand the idea of giving in to what I dislike only because it's seen as a literary sin in the fan community and what not. I'm probably the only few who like creating Touhou OCs and see that they can be done right with the right work. I don't judge every OC I lay eyes on as a mary sue the moment it is introduced. Everyone ELSE might but I like to be a bit more forgiving in this category if only because I'm guilty of it this pleasure to. Yes, yes, "Erebus is actually forgiving to someone OMG unprecedented seri(ry." Does this mean I'm blind to sue qualities? Fuck no, I know a mary sue when I see one. But I don't think EVERY god damn OC is one just for because it's created.
Yeah, sorry for turning this around to what I dislike, but this has been on my chest and I've kept it to myself for...quite awhile now. Longer than I should have, really.
-
I try to be more tolerant of OCs just on the basis that *all* characters start out as OCs. How are ZUN's OCs much different than anyone else's?
I also have a nagging theory that Touhou's popularity has a lot to do with ZUN just setting a template and letting fans fill most of the blanks. I.E. The Suwako in my mind's eye is a bit different from your Suwako, ad infinitum. OCs also have a very strong feeling of "belonging" to one person, while Touhous and 'non-OCs' seem a little more predisposed to creative interpretation.
-
About canon, well, I only take the very basic, as in "personality", "background" of them. Like something obvious as "Remilia is a vampire", "Aya is a reporter tengu", others "canon" and "fanon" can be mixed if it makes sense. I know some only "official profiles" are stated in PMiSS and BAiJR, but isn't it just what's been recorded by Aya and Akyu? Well, that's why I only take it as a basic. The same goes for 'Grimoire of Marisa'.
Fanon is the source of most event in Touhou we now know of, and it helped making Touhou popular so I can't deny it.
I also have a nagging theory that Touhou's popularity has a lot to do with ZUN just setting a template and letting fans fill most of the blanks.
Ditto. But my theory is that ZUN didn't do it on purpose. He created a game, then 'ok bye, let me forget everything so I can make another game.'
-
Fanon is the source of most event in Touhou we now know of, and it helped making Touhou popular so I can't deny it. Ditto. But my theory is that ZUN didn't do it on purpose. He created a game, then 'ok bye, let me forget everything so I can make another game.'
Random thing to add: Another thing that adds a lot of emotional depth but leaves a lot to interpretation are the character themes. If the character details and bios can be thought of as the "body", the music is the character's "soul".
I'm pretty sure he didn't do it on purpose too, and the nice thing is that he's kept a low-profile despite being in the perfect position to cash in on his fan following. But he seems to be content with how things are currently, thankfully.
-
Random thing to add: Another thing that adds a lot of emotional depth but leaves a lot to interpretation are the character themes. If the character details and bios can be thought of as the "body", the music is the character's "soul".
Danmaku too, at least for me. My New Years' resolution was to beat all the extra stage bosses, since I've already beaten all of the games on normal mode at least (except tHRtP because lol no). Seeing a character's danmaku has a profound impact on me for some reason-- it lends itself as another source of canon in my eyes, in that I can see if a character likes to be tricky and use gimmicks, a character is spontaneous and uses random bullet spreads, and the beauty of their patterns to me indicates how much thought they put into fighting with elegance and style.
Speaking of-- Koishi, you're next. I've written White Rose too long without even getting past your first card! >:<
-
Danmaku too, at least for me. My New Years' resolution was to beat all the extra stage bosses, since I've already beaten all of the games on normal mode at least (except tHRtP because lol no). Seeing a character's danmaku has a profound impact on me for some reason-- it lends itself as another source of canon in my eyes, in that I can see if a character likes to be tricky and use gimmicks, a character is spontaneous and uses random bullet spreads, and the beauty of their patterns to me indicates how much thought they put into fighting with elegance and style.
Speaking of-- Koishi, you're next. I've written White Rose too long without even getting past your first card! >:<
Part of my continuation to Makai Butterfly is structured around Byakuren's spellcards >:D I already hinted to a backstory for Devil's Recitation now if I only have the guts to actually implement it >_>;
-
Hmm. As an openly admitted canonwhore who does occasionally try to fic (even though I don't think I've produced anything worth posting)...
I prefer trying to stay near canon because I really really like ZUN's work, and if at all possible -- even before the characterizations and the plot details -- I want to stay true to the mood and atmosphere and... worldview, I guess, or feel of his canon. Trying to imitate what I see in there while also expanding on it to explore things I'm curious about is rewarding. Of course, if characterization is subjective (and it is), "feel" is many times moreso, so whatever I end up with is likely to only work that way on me. But hey, I like it.
I am often dismissive of fanon, perhaps sometimes unfairly. Ruro's right that a lot of it is just backlash against people who get in through the memetic mutation and don't know any better, unfortunately. Since I like canon, fanon that replaces it doesn't interest me, and in many cases seems like it's more generic and less interesting (poor, poor Alice indeed). But canon certainly does have holes and unexplained mysteries that can be very fun and interesting to speculate on. I don't see individual speculation and extrapolation as the same thing as fanon. Fanon is something that's grown and taken on a life of it's own, but it's good to remember you can always try out one interpretation in one story without affecting anything else, even your own other fics, after all.
The Mommy Shinki thing is a weird example. Alice's place in Makai is something unexplained in canon, and it's rich with possibilities what with the retconning she's been through. The idea that Shinki adopted her as her daughter is one possibility, and it's a perfectly good one, with no more evidence for or against it than anything else. But it bothers me how much people seem to take it for granted, to the point where it doesn't even occur to them to consider other takes on it. Even if you don't take the opportunity to play around with speculation of your own, you ought to at least put some thought into whether the common interpretation is the one that works best for you.
I'm also of the belief that it's better to know what you can about canon whether you want to use it or not -- much like stylistic elements of writing, you have to be able to follow the rules before breaking them can be a deliberate choice.
Er, anyway, about personalities... deciding how much you want to bother with canon could be a good starting point by now, heh. It's true that most characters don't have much, but that really, really depends on the character; Marisa has a huge ton of dialogue and roles in everything and wrote a freaking book, Yamame not quite so much. The less there is, the more freedom/burden to make stuff up you have. I'd look at the dialogue and the background and think about why this person is in this place, what they're trying to do, what gets different responses from them, and what that might say about them. And what might possibly be going through their head...
-
Part of my continuation to Makai Butterfly is structured around Byakuren's spellcards >:D I already hinted to a backstory for Devil's Recitation now if I only have the guts to actually implement it >_>;
I am looking forward to that :3 I find a fun writing exercise when fleshing out a character is to fight them, play them, see their spellcards, and think of what could have inspired the character to make them. As Marisa put it (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa:_Afterword_by_Marisa_Kirisame), "It is not too far off to say that a spellcard describes the user." Coincidentally, it's one of the reasons I like Byakuren so much; her choice in spellcard names and styles intrigues me, especially Devil's Recitation. Same goes with Shikieiki; I didn't actually like her very much until her final StB spellcard shows up, where she summons Aya's sinful self to do battle with her, and the last test of skill and power is the defeat of your own sinful self. That is awesome, and I do love extrapolating character traits from cards with dynamic traits like that behind them.
You better implement it, in other words. >:<
Ninja by Hieda no Aya: Augh, I will give my thoughts on this but for now I have to run off to school. Also: I'd like to see what you've written. "Produced anything worth posting", is that so~?
-
Superhuman "Byakuren Hijiri" *WHOOOOOSH*
Silliness aside, spell cards are a great way to play around with characters. Comparing the spell cards of two very different Stage 6 bosses is a great way to see this. Eirin and Utsuho are my favorites to play with, just because they're so completely different.
I don't really write, so I don't know how much stock anything I have to say is worth, but I kind of like to explore the holes in ZUN's canon. (The only time I ever considered writing something was going to be a story about Koakuma and Patchouli's relationship as employee and employer.) I don't feel like there's anything terrible about using fanon details/personalities for characters, but I don't dismiss anything that stays as true to canon as possible in the Touhou fandom.
-
...Okay yeah, I know everyone thinks that. I'm not a bad writer on a technical level, I think, but I have trouble putting a story together. M-maybe I'll think about it?
Incidentally, it occurs to me that I have my own pet interpretation of Yumeko that popped into my head and I got attached to and I have no idea if anyone else ever sees it either. Of course, her canon is like twenty lines of dialogue anyway. It'd be fun to be able to get some use out of that sometime.
(Also it turns out I'm also running out the door too, so hey!)
-
My policy is to do whatever the hell I want, and to do it as well as I can. Apart From Anything Else, with OCs, I avoid "Mary Sue" status by making the "present" characters largely unimportant in the grand scheme of things (or indeed any of the plots so far), and by making the "future" characters have to live up to their parental figures' reputation (by the end of the 60-year cycle that began in PoFV, Reimu, Marisa, and Yukari are basically the biggest names in Gensokyo). As for fanon things like "Shinki is Alice's mom," well, I've actually thought such things through, in this case figuring out exactly how their mother-daughter dynamic would work and coming up with a reason why Alice has been staying in Gensokyo for the past ten years (other than "it got sealed up with her on the wrong side" since she seems to be taking it rather well).
As for the shipping ... I was mostly reacting to the "poor, poor Alice" thing, especially on Walfas, and I guess I got carried away ...
-
I can't really make Danmaku look as good as it's supposed to be in Touhou, I'm going to be honest here. My mindset and style revolve so closesly to the 'traditional' way of attacks (as in physical contact and such) that it usually overrides the Danmaku aspect of whatever battle I'm writing,
If you read MM, you'll notice Yumemi's fight with Nojiko had very little Danmaku in it at all and that's not because the fight itself was short
.
However, what really seems to be bugging me is the fact that I'm using characters that have little affinity or association with magic and thus probably can't use Danmaku as a form of self-defense against those who can. Should I really take the time to explain why Yumemi and Chiyuri have (and can use a spellcard) even though the both of them were absent from Gensokyo the moment they were introduced? Or should I just say "Fuck it" and let the readers think of their own reasons for it?
Rikako is an odd exception, given she's known to use magic, albeit to her own disdain.
-
Another thing I like about canon Touhou is that while on the one hand, it can provide challenging limitations to work within, it's also an enormous mine of material to dig into. Even with characters who have little or no profile information, what scraps we have we can use to build upon. And of course, more established characters provide us with a wider foundation on which to build events.
-
Rikako is an odd exception, given she's known to use magic, albeit to her own disdain.
That's part of why I love her~
That's a good point, Rain/Ammy. When I was gathering material on Patchouli for that old idea of mine, even the little snippets of personality from her lines in the games she's been in provide a lot to work with. She's fairly well exposed in Touhou, given her number of appearances, but characters that were in only one or two games still have a lot to work with... Just look at the newcomers in UFO and all that's been done with them already.
-
A question to all of you established fanfiction writers (and by "established", I mean you've actually written something, anything!).
I'm wondering how many of you would be interested in having your stories converted into Visual Novel format? The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of messing with Ren'Py sometime (in maybe a month or so when my classes are over), and if I want to do some practice projects, I'll need material.
The biggest issue however is graphics. If anyone is eager to do this, they'll need to collaborate with with one of our (or any) artists to make backgrounds and cutins.
But yeah for now I'm just wondering if there is any interest for this sort of thing.
-
Yeah, that's another thing I like -- taking the various concepts to bits and seeing how they fit together. Like, my theory that "Gensokyo is a paradise where nothing bad ever really happens" + "things exist in Gensokyo if enough people in the Outside World actively disbelieve in it" = the Outside World must be a "crapsack world," at least for enough people.
One of the comments I've gotten on Redefined Fantastic Object ch2 (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=ufo2) was in my depiction of danmaku battles, and how much it seemed to be true to canon.
-
A question to all of you established fanfiction writers (and by "established", I mean you've actually written something, anything!).
I'm wondering how many of you would be interested in having your stories converted into Visual Novel format? The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of messing with Ren'Py sometime (in maybe a month or so when my classes are over), and if I want to do some practice projects, I'll need material.
The biggest issue however is graphics. If anyone is eager to do this, they'll need to collaborate with with one of our (or any) artists to make backgrounds and cutins.
But yeah for now I'm just wondering if there is any interest for this sort of thing.
I'm highly interested in getting my stories converted to at the least doujin/manga form. Visual Novel would be interesting, too.
-
I'm also very interested. I think it would be great fun to write multiple possible plotlines for a story depending and decisions the reader makes. I'll start charting one out now. What kind of genres would work best, do you think?
-
I'm also very interested. I think it would be great fun to write multiple possible plotlines for a story depending and decisions the reader makes. I'll start charting one out now. What kind of genres would work best, do you think?
I was originally thinking of just using existing stories, but hey if you're willing to actually make a script fitting for a VN then that works too.
Also I suppose the ol' dating sim works well since it's been done so much with VNs, but really anything should work since a visual novel is no more than a novel with pictures, sounds, and a little bit of interaction (which isn't even necessary)
Although personally I think it would be interesting if someone tried making a mystery VN.
Edit: Oh man, the Ren'Py code is rediculously simple and easy to use. So yeah this is a definite possiblity for me. The main issue is making all of the graphics.
-
But yeah for now I'm just wondering if there is any interest for this sort of thing.
Well.... I may have thought of something along those lines.... (http://dsd.pkmndestruction.net/)
Speaking from experience, getting and keeping a group is hard. Especially since you need artists and like minded writers. Artists are especially hard to hold on to. We got lucky.
-
Hmm, let me put this out there.
I'm currently drawing for Iced Fairy's VN project. I've got too much on my plate for other projects, but if anyone is willing to try making VN-style character poses I'll share the process I've developed over the past few months. Of course, the value of that process will depend on whether or not I actually manage to get through this ordeal, but that's a chance you'll have to take since there isn't really a precedent for this...
A word on what to expect if you're moving for an ambitious project, like in the scale of Tsukihime. Beware the character count of Touhou, you can easily end up with 300+ poses if you decide to include most of the cast, and also want to have the girls change into other outfits once in a while. You can have a bunch of people working on the art, just don't expect it to turn out consistent. If you wanna have a couple of artists do the whole nine yards... let's just say that the chances of finding artists who'll stick with it without a commission is pretty slim. I wouldn't count on finding someone in the small Western Touhou fanbase who has the skill, speed AND time personally.
Okay, I'm done ranting. All I'm suggesting is that you fellas set reasonable expectations when planning out a project. If you don't know what you're getting yourself into, please ask.
-
Odds are then, better off to just try getting a simple doujin drawn up before moving into VN territory. Build a rapport between the artist and writer, then.
-
Well MotK does have quite a few artists (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?board=25.0), and who knows maybe one of them is interested.
-
Well MotK does have quite a few artists (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?board=25.0), and who knows maybe one of them is interested.
You can certainly try. I'd say I'm from around here so you might strike it rich. I apologize for sounding terribly jaded, it's just that out of the 6 or so artists that joined our project, 5 of them left or went MIA after a few months, leaving only me. Your average Touhou fanartist has no idea how big of a job it can be and it's only natural if they have second thoughts after attempting it. If you'd rather not accept rough-looking work the only sure way is to commission someone.
If trying to get someone from around here just don't set the quality bar too high, and let them reuse stances as much as they need to (You know how in VNs they make a different pose by just changing the face?). To start off with you might actually make one pose for each character and just change the face to get variations. You can also try getting one person doing the lineart and one person doing the colors, we tried that too. However then you have TWO people you're hoping won't just take off, so it's just as risky, if not moreso.
Yeah, I might scare off the folks that take the workload of a commercial VN lightly. Trust me when I say it's for your own good. If someone still goes for it despite this you can ask me how to go about organizing the work.
-
Isn't Formless God stil around?
-
I'm really interested in having my fic to be displayed visually. It's what I really think about it.
Count me in if you're cool with it.
-
I'm really interested in having my fic to be displayed visually. It's what I really think about it.
Count me in if you're cool with it.
Like I said, it's no problem for me. You just have to find an artist though :V
You can certainly try. I'd say I'm from around here so you might strike it rich. I apologize for sounding terribly jaded, it's just that out of the 6 or so artists that joined our project, 5 of them left or went MIA after a few months, leaving only me. Your average Touhou fanartist has no idea how big of a job it can be and it's only natural if they have second thoughts after attempting it. If you'd rather not accept rough-looking work the only sure way is to commission someone.
If trying to get someone from around here just don't set the quality bar too high, and let them reuse stances as much as they need to (You know how in VNs they make a different pose by just changing the face?). To start off with you might actually make one pose for each character and just change the face to get variations. You can also try getting one person doing the lineart and one person doing the colors, we tried that too. However then you have TWO people you're hoping won't just take off, so it's just as risky, if not moreso.
Yeah, I might scare off the folks that take the workload of a commercial VN lightly. Trust me when I say it's for your own good. If someone still goes for it despite this you can ask me how to go about organizing the work.
I'm not aiming of commercial projects right now. This is just practice for me and the writer gets thier story in VN form.
-
Hmm. I've had a story I've been tossing around in my head which I've wanted to do in comic form, but I'd need an artist to do that, too. (Perfect Square was originally intended to be this, but it would have had to be ridiculously long ...)
-
Like I said, it's no problem for me. You just have to find an artist though :V
I'm not aiming of commercial projects right now. This is just practice for me and the writer gets thier story in VN form.
Hmm...I think I have a few candidates for this...
-
Theres no shortage of writers here, of course.
Offering yourself up as an artist in search of practice was proooobably a bad idea - at least, publically. Now you'll be swarmed by the lot of us.
-
Offering yourself up as an artist in search of practice was proooobably a bad idea - at least, publically. Now you'll be swarmed by the lot of us.
I... can't figure out who you're talking to. Did someone make an offer and then retract it? (understandable I guess)
-
I... can't figure out who you're talking to. Did someone make an offer and then retract it? (understandable I guess)
Suikama offered up ARTISTRY SKILLS to a writer.
-
Suikama offered up ARTISTRY SKILLS to a writer.
Uh... no I didn't :V
I'm saying I'll do all the programming
You can only expect ZUN art from me :V
-
I stand corrected, then. :B
-
I was thinking the other day about why I've recently started writing fanfiction, and wrote a short blog post about it. Have a look, and share your thoughts (comments are open to all ... or yeah, you can also just talk about it in this thread).
http://tengukami.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-fan-fiction.html
-
Writing fanfiction is in some ways a challenge and in other ways leisure. Your characters are all fully developed in advance; their personalities, their lives, their interactions with each other. Your audience knows a great deal about your characters' motivations beforehand, and if you know your audience well enough, you know which characters they like and dislike. That definitely takes some work off your shoulders.
This is precisely why I enjoy writing stuff based in Gensokyo.
-
Made a topic about the VN thing. Go post in it if you want one done :3
-
This is precisely why I enjoy writing stuff based in Gensokyo.
Pretty much.
Right now I guess I'd better figure out how to get this one piece out of "perpetual re-write hell". It seems like every other time I look at it I see a dozen things wrong and I end up completely re-directing or changing major parts of the story.
Maybe I should just set a self imposed deadline to "freeze" the first chapter so I stop screwing it up and doing it over. :D
-
Dammit Paul, I thought the same thing of you as when Ammy changed his name. Kindly warn us when you change EVERYTHING about you. :V
On topic, the reason I like writing and reading fanfiction for Touhou is precisely that. There's only so much the official works can show us, there are so many stories left untold. With a mythology that big and so many characters, there have to be other stories other than those shown, and fanfiction and doujin works are a way to discover those side stories.
I happen to like mythologies that have such a depth, whether they be character-based or setting-based. To me, a character based setting is like Touhou, where the main stories are in how the characters interact with each other. In such a setting, because a lot of character interactions are only hinted at, the wealth of writing material is in finding out how different characters will interact. A setting-based mythology would be something like the Star Wars EU. As such, there's not as many characters to keep track of, but you can see the other worlds that go on behind the main character's backs, the side characters, the cameos, and the non-issue characters going about their business without any characterization at all. In that, the wealth of stories is in how those characters ignored by canon go about their business, either not or subtly influencing the canonical story. To paraphrase a character from the Star Wars EU: "Everyone remembers what Lando Calrissian did at the battle of Endor, but does anyone remember the name of the gunner on Home One?" I would like to know about those characters, and that's why I like reading stuff from such a place.
-
Y'know, one of the reasons I decided to choose to go with Gengetsu as the main character of my fic is that very little is known about her. Makes it really easy and flexible to create a backstory and personality on her. Same with her sister.
-
Don't read this if you actually like anything I've ever written. Especially my Text adventures. Because this is going to suck all the magic out of them, I swear to god.
For reals. You've been warned. They'll look like 80 times more terrible if you'll read this. Because you'll notice things. And then it won't be as fun to read anymore.
Also cursing. Because I have the passions.
You know what I hate?
Dialogue.
I cannot make characters not sound exactly the goddamned same. I can add in some slangy stuff now and again, but in the end, they always have the exact same voice and it pisses me off so badly. The way they phrase things is always the same, the word choices are always the same. I cannot write people who sound unique no matter what I try. All I can really do is mask it up with accents and slang and shits and hope no one notices.
And then there's that whole goddamn thing where you're trying to write people having natural seeming gestures and expressions? You'd think that'd make 'em seem individual right? I can't even do that well. They always end up reacting to shit the same way. Same kind of body language all around. And then there's dropping that shit in seemlessly. Doing it so it doesn't mess up the flow of conversation? Goddamn, I can only dream of imagining getting that right. I just sorta end up dropping in like chucking rocks at a river, and hoping it lands in the right spot. Let alone actually being stuff people would do.
And then either there's not enough of it, and shit reads like a script of a muck talking to himself like a schizophrenic, or there's too much and you can't even tell what's being said for all the facial expression and arm flailing and walking across the room and shit. Usually it's the former for me. I tend to have people talk and forget to make 'em do anything.
Speaking of that, you know what I hate?
Descriptions.
Oh god I cannot describe a thing to save my life. Start with big details you notice immediately, work with little ones. Fuck a duck, you'd think it'd be easy. But goddamn if I just sorta start shooting them out like an uzi on full auto in the hands of a blind man and hoping I even wing the target. Let alone trying to make them flow naturally into one another. And fuck me if I ever remember to apply non-visual senses. Smell, touch, temperature, sounds? Maybe I'll remember 'em weeks later. =[
You know what I hate?
Making one thing flow into another.
Christy McAllah I hate this so much. Making one paragraph look like it's supposed to follow another? Hell, making one sentence seem like it's supposed to follow another! Shit, I abuse "also", "furthermore", and other such words so much the language ought to consider me a war criminal. And if I don't do it, my shit just reads like a kludge of sentences put into a random order by a dice roller with the periodic key phrase missing that would tie it all together. I just cannot make shit flow at all. It's all like a like a first grader's paragraphs, all I get are a much of wooden sentences.
I'm not even going to get into my cousinfucking typos and dyslexia. =I
Genitals.
-
Sounds like you're a real writer to me.
-
I like to pretend.
I'm aware enough to know exactly how bad I am at it. =[
-
I wish I knew how bad I was...at least I know whether to give up or try harder :V
-
I like the advice of Bill Burroughs: "If you've just finished writing something and think it's brilliant, tear it up at once and throw it into someone else's garbage can."
-
Purvis - you will triumph.
It takes a lot of time - I've been writing as a hobby since I was eight. I'm 22 now, and I STILL feel like my stories lack a professional flow. Most of my shit (read: Everlasting Wanderers) is mostly just dialogue back and forth with the occasional break for actiony descriptions of whatever's happening. Then, when I notice this happening, I'll cut all dialogue out of a chunk and just describe everything as it happens (read again: library scene).
Thing is, though, I've read waaaaaaaaaaaaay more books than I could EVER hope to read or even remember. Through them, I've been picking up little tidbits of styles and tricks of the trade to give my stories a stable, if slightly shaky, foundation. Just gotta keep at it.
-
Purvis - you will triumph.
It takes a lot of time - I've been writing as a hobby since I was eight. I'm 22 now, and I STILL feel like my stories lack a professional flow. Most of my shit (read: Everlasting Wanderers) is mostly just dialogue back and forth with the occasional break for actiony descriptions of whatever's happening. Then, when I notice this happening, I'll cut all dialogue out of a chunk and just describe everything as it happens (read again: library scene).
Thing is, though, I've read waaaaaaaaaaaaay more books than I could EVER hope to read or even remember. Through them, I've been picking up little tidbits of styles and tricks of the trade to give my stories a stable, if slightly shaky, foundation. Just gotta keep at it.
This is pretty much me. Except replace 8 with 14 and 22 with 28.
I also fell out of the habit around...23 or so. I just couldn't be happy with what I made anymore. It's crazy rare I even get the urge to really write anymore. Because I'll just stall up and stop, unless I'm insanely in love with my idea; a la First Against the Wall. Or I'll force myself and just out sub-mediocrity with all the stuff I mentioned up there.
-
Me, I hate narration. I'd much rather just write a script with dialogue, or make a comic. (This accounts for why I release a new comic at least six times more often than I release a new fanfic-chapter.)
-
In short, what any curious, up-and-coming writers should take away from this little conversation...
There is no wrong way to write.
Unless you butcher the language you're writing in.
Cuz leik dat wood B way suxorz 2 right liek dat
-
It's comforting to see I'm not the only one who gets irritated at his own perceived inability to write. :S
But yeah, I have a really awkward way of writing dialogue, I'm bad at writing descriptions, I write far too many scenes involving water
- there are times I wonder 'why do people actually LIKE this stuff?' :<
-
Writing in second person takes a bit of getting used to, if you're like me and haven't hosted an RPG in years.
-
In short, what any curious, up-and-coming writers should take away from this little conversation...
There is no wrong way to write.
Unless you butcher the language you're writing in.
Cuz leik dat wood B way suxorz 2 right liek dat
I would disagree. There's all sorts of wrong ways to write. I know because I've done 'em and I've read more than enough examples of from others. There's a lovely book on the subject, 200 Ways Not to Write Novel, that goes into it in great detail. Awful characterization, clunky sentences, poor word choices and focuses of attention, insufficient scene setting, over-sufficient scene setting. The list goes on.
-
I can certainly second that. Take a look at the Strange Horizons submissions guidelines page (http://www.strangehorizons.com/guidelines/fiction-common.shtml). There you will find a very long list of well-worn fantasy/sci-fi plot devices that they do not want to see submitted. Many of these plot ideas are probably familiar to you all. They make a decent disclaimer:
This is not a canonical list of bad stories or story cliches. This is a list of types of stories that we at SH have seen too often; it's not intended to be a complete list of all types of bad stories, nor are all the items on the list necessarily bad.
With that in mind, here's a sample:
Weird things happen, but it turns out they're not real.
1. In the end, it turns out it was all a dream.
2. In the end, it turns out it was all in virtual reality.
3. In the end, it turns out the protagonist is insane.
4. In the end, it turns out the protagonist is writing a novel and the events we've seen are part of the novel.
...
Person is floating in a formless void; in the end, they're born.
Person uses time travel to achieve some particular result, but in the end something unexpected happens that thwarts their plan.
-
I'd argue with proper loving care, most plotlines that aren't blatantly contradictory to reality can be made to work (Sorry Rand). It's lack of forethought and lack of technique that tends to sink them. Mind you, this often goes hand in hand with overused plot devices. But correlation, causation, et al.
-
I was amused by the "loose on the net" bit; a couple years ago I had an idea for a story which would pointedly avert the "not clear on what on the net means" bit.
-
Question i'd like to pose to any and all of you fiction writers. About how long would you estimate it takes you to write? Of course it's all dependent on the length of the story, but how long do you think it takes you to write a few pages on average?
I feel like I take forever, personally. I just spent the past three hours writing, and I have barely three pages worth. :ohdear:
-
I'm a fast writer once I overcome my laziness and actually start.
Take the Librarian Stories for example, I think I never spend more than about 1 1/2 to 2 hours on each chapter.
-
Varies like hell.
You'd be surprised how long it takes to just make the lists in Day Planners =[
-
For a story of about 3500 words, it'll take an hour or so to outline, 12 hours to rough draft, and 24 to 36 hours to polish. All that is spread out over the course of a week or so. I like to take frequent breaks to freshen up and re-think things.
-
10,000 years.
...
Okay, let's be honest; Since I usually just jump into writing with little else in mind but getting it down, it will usually depend on how much content I want to jam into the chapter or story. I'm not going to count the times where I just slack the fuck off and don't do anything, so I'll say that it takes me several hours to get down minimal content while it takes alot more time to put down fleshed out and descriptive content.
But really though, I never keep track of how fast I write, being I always flak out for long periods of time after wards >_>
-
Purely random. I cranked out Chain Reaction in two drug laced hours while chapter 1 of Three Days Bright took 2 weeks of work and 2 more weeks of editing.
In general it's easier for me to write comedy then drama, and simpler for me to write short pieces then long ones, because I'm terrible with transitioning between scenes.
I also tend to sit on a story for three days to a week before editng it and posting. This of course is not the case with the weekly fiction pieces, but I'm porbably going to stick with that for my other works.
-
If I'm writing it in MSWord, I can take up to an hour or so for everything that I get segmented out for Everlasting Wanderers.
If I'm posting directly into the thread that I'm writing in, I can get a full post up and running in about a half hour or so.
I maintain this pace by adding little tidbits, here and there, and posting them as I feel they round out a scene well enough.
Forsake The Future was something I was working on before I came to MotK, and had that about 2/3rd typed up by the time I started posting it. Once I got started and people started reading it, in turn encouraging me to write more, I finished it up post-by-post at an average of about an hour a post.
-
My work ethic stinks to high heaven, so when I do get going, its only a few pages in a few hours or days. This is precisely (that along with a long-lasting S4 League addiction) what took FoTUF nearly 3 years to write. I don't think my next projects will take that long (though one of them is looking like it'll be even longer than FoTUF so we'll see).
-
I'm with Iced Fairy on this one; purely random. I wrote Honesty of Purpose within five hours of DS' release, and I've written some chapters of White Rose in a matter of days, but right now, I haven't touched White Rose for three weeks. (For me, artists' block is significantly easier to handle than writer's block, but they are both still terribad.)
For me, it is much easier to write drama than comedy. You would be surprised at how much work goes into Kurumi and Elly fics. And hanging out with UD has instilled in me the habit of throwing a story into the refrigerator and letting it cool off before letting it out for editing. I've also found that I can brute-force Roukan (or E-Mouse, back in the day) into proofing my fics, as well. :3
-
Motivation. For me, it all depends on that.
I haven't been too motivated to write my fic atm. I have the next chapter planned out and all, but I haven't been motivated to write it all down. I suck -_-
-
Agreeing with Iced as well. If I get an inspiration I can create three pages in an hour, but If I don't, It can take me up to a month just to write a paragraph. It's worse for fanfiction due to the fact that there are really no deadlines except for self-imposed ones, and my normal mode for writing papers is last minute panic, which doesn't happen in fanfiction.
-
Next Question!
What are people's stances on the English-Japanese crossover in the fiction they write? I'm talking about stuff like name order, use of honorifics like -san or -chan, using Japanese terms for certain things instead of the English, etc.
I'm at a crossroads, and i'm not quite sure which way I like better for my own writing. The name order sounds fine either way for me, but that's probably because when ZUN writes the name in English for the games he uses First/Last naming order.
-
Oh, something I have a stance on! Hooray~!
Ahem... In what few pieces of fiction I've written, I try not to use Japanese conventions. I refer to characters family name last ("Reimu Hakurei" rather than "Hakurei Reimu", etc.), refrain from using Japanese honourifics ("Lady Shinki" rather than "Shinki-sama"), and use westernized terms ("shrine maiden" rather than "miko"). Why? Because I'm a westerner. It's how I learned to write, and besides, it wouldn't seem right at all for me to write using eastern conventions.
But that's just how I feel, I guess.
-
Can't say I'm incredibly orthodox about it one way or the other. I'm not hardcore anti- or pro-localization. I try to be as faithful as I can while keeping the English graceful. I guess that's about it.
-
I do whatever I feel like at the moment (I'm somewhat inconsistent, really), and the characters are explicitly speaking in Japanese (c.f. "Translation Convention") unless otherwise specified.
-
Un, I tend to prefer to keep it in English, and not to use fangirl Japanese, but I'll use loanwords and I'll usually allow the use of honorifics. Especially in the case of honorifics, some things spoken in the Japanese language just don't translate well into English, and I'll allow the use of them so long as they're not overly used and misused.
-
It depends on my audience to some degree.
I always use any noun that doesn't translate directly to English in it's original form. English is all about stealing other language's nouns, and I encourage doing so for Japanese nouns as well.
In my fics I use honorifics, because I actually think in those terms when writing for Touhou characters, and because I know this audience won't be confused by them. For the VN I'm strenuously avoiding those because it's pseudo-professional.
I'm trying to avoid using ANY random expressions (Ara ara, is my biggest offender) and I despise using sentence endings in English fiction. (~Ze I'm looking at you.) Only sayings will get a pass and a translation note.
-
I would welcome more 'yare yare'.
-
I use the Western naming order in my fics.
I do use Japanese honorifics, but only for certain characters. Youmu uses them because she's old-fashioned, and the Moriya family uses them since they're outsiders who are still unaccustomed to Genoskyo's ways, ways that are pretty lax on how to (im)properly address people.
I do use a little bit of Gratuitous Japanese in my Touhou fics. Japan is always Nippon, Japanese, as in the language, is always Nihongo, moe doesn't get translated, and Marisa occasionally says ze or da ze, but I usually leave it at that. The texts of my fics, in-universe anyways, are supposed to be English translations of Japanese texts, which is strange, considering that one of my Mentor and Protege chapters uses a pun I'm pretty sure only exists in English. (My gawd, I'm printing my own Woolseyisms! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Woolseyism)) I don't do more than that: no one ever says "Kawaii desu~!" Flandre never calls Remilia "Ojou-sama", I have yet to print "baka", nothing goes just as keikaku . . . and yet, I still feel the need to leave a few things "untranslated" anyways. Man, I'm so weird.
-
I've set a resolution for myself to avoid usage of honorifics and gratuitous Japanese, for the simple reason that I don't speak Japanese, and so I don't have a true understanding of what those terms actually mean. It's one thing to know how they're translated into English, but it's another entirely to be familiar with all their conversational uses and implications. I've considered the fact that using honorifics can lend flavor and uniqueness to particular characters' portrayals, but I'd still rather use other methods where I can. Though, on a related note, I tend to prefer translations of VNs or whatever to keep the Japanese honorifics for the same reason.
As for Japanese nouns, I prefer to keep those as-is unless either there's a good western equivalent with its own word, or the audience can't be expected to recognize the Japanese term off the top of their heads. So, "gohei" remains "gohei," but "osaisen" becomes "donation."
-
It's time for a *fun* question!
Is it possible to have a CYOA thread here instead of RPG?
Two reasons for that:
1) I do not like having users deal with RPG's ten post rule.
2) I can use the NSFW tag for it and I'll be fine sailing.
Anyways, thank you for reading this. I hope you will respond!
-
I don't see why not. CYOA is just interactive fiction, after all. And if there is any NSFW, tagging it should be fine-- though I haven't seen that you've been planning any. Are you just covering all your bases?
-
Question i'd like to pose to any and all of you fiction writers. About how long would you estimate it takes you to write? Of course it's all dependent on the length of the story, but how long do you think it takes you to write a few pages on average?
I feel like I take forever, personally. I just spent the past three hours writing, and I have barely three pages worth. :ohdear:
My ever so humble advice is the following.
We all have things we're good at and not-so-good at in writing. For me, I'm good at dialogue, I'm okay at narrative, and I'm bad at description. When I try to write, if I tried to describe everything I should be, I'd never get anything done. First drafts should be quick and dirty. Refine harder things later, because the earlier you do something, the more likely it's going to change, and you want to change the easy things.
You just might want to give that a shot.
-
Question i'd like to pose to any and all of you fiction writers. About how long would you estimate it takes you to write? Of course it's all dependent on the length of the story, but how long do you think it takes you to write a few pages on average?
ahhhh, 30 minutes to write half a page (usually for an update to a CYOA), sometimes 5 hours to do the same.
1 hour per page if the thing is a fiction (anything in WWC, the actual fictions I should be getting to, etc).
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I'm incredibly never in the mood to write because real life is really really really really annoying.
Also,
Someone calls technical support; wacky hijinx ensue.
why did I laugh at this? Why would anyone make a fiction about this? :o
EDIT:
A place is described, with no plot or characters.
As bad as this sounds, it could be pretty nice.
-
Also,why did I laugh at this? Why would anyone make a fiction about this? :o
Well, fuck. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1681.msg66147#msg66147)
-
Well, fuck. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1681.msg66147#msg66147)
In a time of need, technical support is there to be your:
a) wacky psychologist
b) confession bin
c) Usually Dead
d) all of the above
Please note which problem you have at this moment.
-
Hm. I've found a message lying in one of my inboxes somewhere, and it seems we're down one of our beloved authors. He better return from his journey of self-discovery as fast as he can so he can write more Cirno. I'll be waiting eagerly.
-
I have the first chapter "done" for my current fic and I'm looking for someone else give it a quick read.
To be honest it has probably been in different states of being "done" for the past month or so. I keep changing my mind on things and rewriting a lot of it over and over and I'm probably not improving it any by doing so.
I should probably either post it soon or get rid of it before I make too much of a mess. :V
-
I'd be happy to read it.
-
hi guys, I'm still struggling on the "Japanese convention" stuff. In my recent fic (in my sign) I use both "-san" and "miss". -san for somewhat close, like when Elly talked about Yuuka. And miss is for other, like when Yukari addressed Kanako or Aya talked to Eirin.
Since I'm not Japanese or English native speaker, the mix looked fine to me, but I'd like to know about the readers' thoughts.
And a quick read if you have time, thanks ^^"
-
hi guys, I'm still struggling on the "Japanese convention" stuff. In my recent fic (in my sign) I use both "-san" and "miss". -san for somewhat close, like when Elly talked about Yuuka. And miss is for other, like when Yukari addressed Kanako or Aya talked to Eirin.
Since I'm not Japanese or English native speaker, the mix looked fine to me, but I'd like to know about the readers' thoughts.
And a quick read if you have time, thanks ^^"
Maybe if you made certain characters exclusively use 'miss' or '-san'? I think it'd be a little less awkward if you didn't have the same characters switching from one to the other, but variance between characters might be alright. '-san' is a respectful title and usually closer people omit suffixes altogether, or use a more informal suffix like '-chan' or '-kun'.
-
Challenge to readers has been issued!
For someone just going for a story - like me - it works. Otherwise, consider Nobu's suggestion - consistency between the characters would be ideal.
When I read it, I personally didn't even catch on to the fact that they were swapping back and forth. I was looking to see if it was forced or not - and to be honest, I think the suffix 'hime-sama' is a bit redundant for Kaguya.
I'm no expert on Japanese conventions, but, isn't '-hime' the suffix for royalty - and '-sama' is 'one of great respect'? I would assume that '-hime' would imply the spirit of '-sama'. It'd be like addressing your boss as 'Mr. Sir', or 'Mrs. Ma'am.'
{Edit} Think I just found myself a new display name.
-
Hime is the term for princess, and I think it can be used as a suffix or as a noun. I believe the rule is if you're using it as a noun you have to use the politeness suffix with it, but I'm not certain.
Anyway hime-sama is correct Japanese speech, and to some degree Japanese politeness is about making your speech as long and redundant as possible. For English works though I'd stick with one suffix, if any. And definitely keep it consistent between two characters (unless they're pretending to be more formal in public or are trying to be insulting).
-
I might be a bit late regarding the honorifics topic, though I guess I can still give a stance. I admittedly haven't thought about it much before, but I think I would mostly stick to Western conventions, mainly because it's recognizable for the language it's written in. Perhaps the only exception would be having one character address another with the family name first, like "Hakurei Reimu" - specific to dialogue.
It's odd, for the past five years or so it seems like I've always tried to organize some story ideas in my head or on paper in hopes of actually writing something (I've been exposed to the idea of fanfiction since the early 2000's), but the only thing that even barely saw the light of day was a "Chao in Space" story I had in 2006 (only had several chapters written, never published). Now that I'm into Touhou, more ideas are coming up, and I'm once again sorting ideas out in Word. But unlike the rest, I feel pretty passionate (if that's the right word) about this one, and I think I might actually get started on it. I'm of the position that I won't post the story until it's finished, but I wonder if anyone here would mind taking a look at what I have so far (just a set of notes). Obviously still a lot of planning to do, but my paranoid side wonders if the story idea would hold much ground.
-
Funen - sure. Also, don't be afraid to do serials (that is, chapter by chapter). The whole lot of us authors here are doing it that way, and everyone here eats it up.
Not like we're doing it deliberately, mind you, it's just that the most of us writers (cuz, you know, we're people too) don't have the free time to sit down and hammer out an entire story all at once. The exception are short stories that fit into one single post.
-
I have yet to write anything at all, short stories included. Yet a part of me wants to. Sometimes I tell myself that I should just do it for the hell of it, I might surprise myself. But given how often I'm criticized for being too long-winded, or the number of times I'm misunderstood, it's a pretty stupid idea. In addition, I know that when trying something for the first time, you start small, and you work your way up. Problem with writing, I have absolutely no interest in anything but big huge monster series that just go on and on. Stuff like George RR Martin, Raymond Feist, Salvatore (though I've since lost interest in his series approximately after book 10 or 12 or something, not that they are numbed, but you know what I mean, the set of series' about Drizzt).
I have never read a short story I enjoy, even by authors I adore. Sometimes I research and find a new book with their name on it, and then after getting it, I realize it's just a buncha short stories. I think "aww not this shit!", then think "I might as well give it a try since I have it now I guess". I'll read 3-4 of them, and be bored to tears with each and every one, then toss it. If Raymond Feist can't write a short story worth a damn, how in hells name can I? Yet still, I want to write a big epic series, but it's not exactly what I've dreamed and educated myself for to be my career, so why get involved in such a commitment? Am I the only one who has felt this way?
-
I have yet to write anything at all, short stories included. Yet a part of me wants to. Sometimes I tell myself that I should just do it for the hell of it, I might surprise myself. But given how often I'm criticized for being too long-winded, or the number of times I'm misunderstood, it's a pretty stupid idea. In addition, I know that when trying something for the first time, you start small, and you work your way up. Problem with writing, I have absolutely no interest in anything but big huge monster series that just go on and on. Stuff like George RR Martin, Raymond Feist, Salvatore (though I've since lost interest in his series approximately after book 10 or 12 or something, not that they are numbed, but you know what I mean, the set of series' about Drizzt).
I have never read a short story I enjoy, even by authors I adore. Sometimes I research and find a new book with their name on it, and then after getting it, I realize it's just a buncha short stories. I think "aww not this shit!", then think "I might as well give it a try since I have it now I guess". I'll read 3-4 of them, and be bored to tears with each and every one, then toss it. If Raymond Feist can't write a short story worth a damn, how in hells name can I? Yet still, I want to write a big epic series, but it's not exactly what I've dreamed and educated myself for to be my career, so why get involved in such a commitment? Am I the only one who has felt this way?
Hm... I'm not sure I'm the best person to comment on this since I work almost exclusively in the short story range, but I can kind of understand getting caught in a huge commitment. The one nice thing about writing a short story is that when I post it, it's done. I never have to worry about losing my will to write it halfway through. For the longer stuff you're going to have to decide if you've got the will to keep going, or at least the will to face the fact you can't keep going.
Having a large vocal fanbase can help keep you commited. Having others depending on your work can help keep you commited. Being bloody minded about completion can help keep you commited. But it's something very personal that you have to figure out yourself.
As for story length, I view big stories as being made out of smaller stories. Most of the stuff I've written on this site is actually part of a collected whole, but there's usually no overarching plot so they're short stories. If there was an overarching plot they'd be "chapters" instead, but the essence of the story would be the same. Admittedly longer stories require more continuity checks, but that's true of anything of length.
Hopefully something in that is usefull...
-
I think that if there's a story in you that wants to come out, you should outline it and then write it, one chunk at a time. You can post each portion here, or wait until it's done. I know everyone here would encourage you. Myself and others here have also read pieces in PM, going over them and working on them with you, offering constructive criticism. I'd for one would be happy to.
I find that with larger projects, work becomes its own motivation. For every bit you finish, that sense of accomplishment can carry you over to write the next portion. It's helpful to have someone encouraging you of course, but even if you work alone until you believe the piece is done, seeing what you've done so far can definitely help you move it along.
-
Well, it's really funny what makes a good writer to me. I mean, as I said, I like certain authors, and I enjoy their long stories, and dislike their short ones. But even with their long ones, I enjoy it within the first chapter. There is just something about the way a good author writes something that makes it enjoyable, and that somehow doesn't seem to occur in their short stories. This is what I think I'll suck at regardless. I have a technical viewpoint on many things, I really doubt I'd grasp the ability to write something in a way so that it sounds fresh and interesting after people hear it before. I can enjoy something that I'm not good at, but writing doesn't really strike me as something to do if you're not good at it >=P.
I almost think I'm scared to try, but that doesn't quite seem to be exactly what it is preventing me from trying, but it's probably related. Not even sure why I'm telling you guys this, I'm not really hoping someone will motivate me to try. I think I was hoping that someone could relate, and tell me exactly how I feel since I'm not really sure myself, sounds pretty dumb I know.
Maybe an outline would be a good idea though, might even be fun.
-
Hashing out the story beforehand helps a lot.
What characters will I use?
What plot will they be involved in?
Who will they interact with?
How will they resolve any dilemmas?
How many minor obstacles will they need to overcome before resolving their dilemma, and how will they resolve those?
Will, if any, antagonists be involved in the dilemma, or will they be minor characters just there to be dealt with? (Is there a Big Bad Wolf or is there a Stage 3 Boss who'll tell them where to find the Wolf?)
Do I want the story to end on a good note or a bad note?
How long do I want the story to be?
This checklist can be used to works of epic length or for short stories.
-
Well then, maybe someone could take a look at these notes of mine. They're in an attachment to the post (Word 2003 document). Obviously, all of these notes are subject to change to begin with, and there's not nearly enough yet for me to write the full story, so I will most definitely be editing, replacing, or deleting some of this stuff on my own. Any feedback is appreciated for what's there now, of course.
Oh, and potential spoilers are to be had, but I wonder, wouldn't that be expected for anyone reviewing someone else's story notes?
-
Quick question: what tense should be in the fiction, past or present? I mean, right now I'm using present, but the "s" and "es" are killing me ~_~
-
Usually fiction is in past tense, isn't it? I think that's more natural to me, at least. Though present tense might be effective too depending on what sort of feeling you're trying to evoke.
-
Well I'm writing a mysterious story with surprises and stuffs. The fictions I've read were all in present tense (even the historical novel) so it had greatly influenced me.
-
You can still write a mysterious story in past tense. I'd say, do whatever you feel is a better read. Past tense makes sense to me in most cases, since a story by nature is describing something that's already happened. But present tense has the feeling that you're directly observing the events as they happen... Eh, there's a good argument to be had for either. As long as you're consistent, I think it would be alright.
-
I'm not really sure there's a rule on what tense to use. My latest story (http://tengukami.blogspot.com/2010/04/what-gets-read.html) is written in the present tense, for example. Really depends on what you're most comfortable with for the story you want to write.
-
Thanks, I actually wrote what I was thinking at that time so it worked for me.
And do anyone have a problem because you're writing an (assumingly) all girl fiction? Like, it goes "she tell her then she...". It's quite hard to tell who's who and I don't like repeat words too much. I tried using their title or something like "the tengu", "the miko" and their names but still.
-
It's always good policy to avoid "her," "his," and other simple pronouns in English writing. When you do use them it's always important you make clear who the pronoun is referring to. This is something I'm guilty of a lot as well.
Pronouns are a tool that's easy to overuse. Consider the all female cast a helpful reminder to not do that. :)
-
'She looked up at Yuka.'
'Reimu couldn't believe her - such an outrageous story!'
'She smacked Rumia in the head. Her hand stung, but the gesture was necessary for the young youkai to learn her lesson.'
One person gets the pronouns, the other person gets either their name or a describing title. That tends to work for me.
Present tense would work best in a first-person narrative, I reckon. Never really used it myself; everything I write is almost exclusively past-tense.
-
Okay.
So, I've been fiddling with Mystic Mutation for a while now and something has been bugging me the moment I got to the point where they arrived in the Jungle
. How far can someone twist Gensokyo before someone says "Okay, fuck this...this is just TOO fucking stupid" and stops reading? As in, how far can you push things with original content before Touhou isn't Touhou anymore?
Yeah I know it seems strange, but for what I'm writing it seems like I've been going farther and farther away from what's Touhou to the point where I fear readers may have just given up on trying to understand it and just dropped it like a sack of raw sewage.
-
If someone is reading your story for it to be honest to the Touhou universe, they need to GTFO. The whole appeal behind Touhou is that Gensokyo is so open-ended and vaguely defined that it could go any which way.
The very nature of the in-universe system of logic straight out SAYS the weird and ridiculous happen on a regular basis.
If you wanna make a giant skeleton T-Rex go stomping through the Forest of Magic and chase Mystia who for some reason can't fly anymore despite being 1) a Touhou and 2) a bird until they get to the Great Gensokyian Desert, go for it.
-
I think that's what my fic is, Erebus.
But I think Touhou doesn't have a limit, judging by the fanon you can see it's clearly as far as your imagination can handle. Of course, if you want people to keep reading you'll need to make it attractive.
Quite hard for a wall-of-text doujinshi, tho. If I could I would draw a manga...
-
Okay.
So, I've been fiddling with Mystic Mutation for a while now and something has been bugging me the moment I got to the point where they arrived in the Jungle
. How far can someone twist Gensokyo before someone says "Okay, fuck this...this is just TOO fucking stupid" and stops reading? As in, how far can you push things with original content before Touhou isn't Touhou anymore?
Yeah I know it seems strange, but for what I'm writing it seems like I've been going farther and farther away from what's Touhou to the point where I fear readers may have just given up on trying to understand it and just dropped it like a sack of raw sewage.
To be honest, as long as the writing's good, innovations are just fine. I've cited Serp's sci-fi piece (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4948.0) before, and I'll point it out again. This is a great example of taking Gensokyo beyond its strictest physical aspects and into the area of using Gensokyan symbology and attitudes in a whole other world.
If you can pull it off, why not? Last week's challenge had a load of great stories, and none of them even took place in Gensokyo.
-
Erebus: A good story is a good story. Honestly, in one way I see fanfiction as just a gimmick that draws readers who would otherwise never look at your stuff. So I wouldn't worry too much about staying faithful, as long as you're crafting a good story.
-
I think I can testify for this point as well. I'm planning a few things for my story that would appear radical - though I wouldn't say they completely defy logic, whatever logic Gensokyo has. I guess the thing to keep in mind is that fanfiction is by definition not supposed to be canon, so you can afford to deviate from the norm.
Of course, I hope people don't mind me still trying to make some things coincide with the current canon. I suppose one could argue that even though Gensokyo has its own logic, we, the readers, would be more familiar with the logic of the real world (as well as what we already know about Gensokyo through the games), and thus be better able to process connections of this sort. It's more of a writing strategy than anything else.
-
In regard to the present-tense vs. past-tense argument:
It can generally go either way. To me, whether or not you use either tense is dependant on how you want your story conveyed. For example, if I want to write a piece heavily dependent on emotions, feelings, sensations, etc., I'll use present-tense. It works particularly well with first-person-perspective, as it allows you to write out a character's immediate thoughts as an event is taking place. I also like to play around with formatting and syntax when writing first-person-present-tense: people's thoughts are rarely in complete and correct statements; writing in this style allows you to include or exclude certain rules of English in order to give a more genuine feel. One author I feel is particularly brilliant at this is Laurie Halse Anderson, particularly in her novel Wintergirls.
Past-tense is much better for describing events rather than emotions, I think. I generally prefer to write present-tense, since I like to throw in small details and touches that I feel draws the reader in. A past-tense story says "here's a record of what happened, for you to read afterwards." A present-tense story says "this is happening right now, feel what I feel while it's happening."
-
My knee-jerk tendency as a history fanatic is to write everything in the past tense. It's a holdover from reading too much historical fiction when I was younger-- the writers tended to treat events as if they had already happened, because, well, they had. The exceptions, when writers would take on the voice of their main character, were notable for that purpose; the whole appeal of that approach is so that the reader feels immersed in the tale, that this is happening to them-- directly, immediately, urgently so.
I have noticed this tendency in me, and I want to try something else, most recently in White Rose. The very end of the last update (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=183.msg265992#msg265992) hinted at all of this, but it's still a bit of a spoiler, so seriously, don't read what's under the spoiler tags here unless you're absolutely dying to know how I'm trying to play with tenses.
Koishi's just closed her Third Eye, and in so doing has closed off her thoughts and emotions. She's unable to live in any moment but the present, and no longer thinks of consequences or outcomes. So as a stylistic/symbolic choice, all scenes with her will be written in the present tense, while the rest of the story told from anyone else's perspective is in the same past tense as before.
Past and present aren't concrete at all; foolin' around with them, or even mixing them, can have pretty neat effects on the reading experience. Tinker around with 'em if you like, and see what works best for the story you're telling.
As for how far I can push my readers: White Rose is a moralistic war drama for a series that's ultimately about magical girls wearing bloomers shooting brightly coloured bullets at each other, and somehow I haven't driven off every reader in PSL. And that's not even getting into the lunacy that is Kurumi and Elly (admittedly, it makes no effort to fit into any sort of canon), the outside-world group I've created in my brain for the PoDD crew + Renko and Maribel, or the... whatever the hell Sweet Dreams is, because hell if I know :V You'd be surprised how far you can push the limits of what is a "reasonable" Touhou fic.
-
On the subject of the jungle, dark-tewi.jpg
-
I'm not sure if this falls under board rules or library opinion, so I figure'd I'd ask here. As mentioned before Graph and I and some others have been working on a Visual Novel for a bit. We've now reached the point where we actually can start showing bits and pieces of it. We origianlly tossed it up on the Garage, because it's a game project, but considering the VN work here and the fact that it's still a prewritten CYOA story I was wondering if this board might not be a better fit. So I guess the question is, is the libarary it's proper home, and if so would any of you be interested in seeing it?
-
The Library would be perfectly suited to such an endeavour, yeah. And I would love to see it as well :3
-
The Library would be perfectly suited to such an endeavour, yeah.
As she said.
And well, it's a Visual Novel, so where else should it go than here :D
Hmm, a VN with Graph's graphics and IcedFairy's story-writing, that'll be great~
-
Just a small official announcement:
As you may have noticed, I am now the Acolyte for PSL.
While the board lists me as 'Moderator', that is not what I am at all.
Rather, I am now the representative of PSL for all of your needs and questions.
Meaning that if you have any suggestions, questions, problems, wishes etc. that concern PSL, then talk to me.
Let us all work together to keep PSL the nice and enjoyable place it is, and maybe make it even better in the future~
-
As occasional scribber (who never manage to finish any fanfic) I don't think knowing my writing habits will help much, but this is how I generally go around writing stories. One thing about me is that I am terrible at creativity- I have general idea of how characters could respond when faced with novel and strange events, but creating OCs and interesting events itself frustratingly eludes me. This is why I generally base my fiction around single unique concept. Usually I find I can create interesting possibilities by simply writing a cross-over (My recent idea is Hitman: Blood Money x Touhou crossover, which I still have no idea how to smooth fine details over, but there you go.) Then plot and event just comes to me as these characters scramble to respond instead of me having to make one! :derp:
After having all of this done, I create the most basic plotline for beginning to end because it prevents me from having writer's block later on. It's just rudimentary timeline of all significant events, so I feel I still have lot of freedom and trouble filling up specific details & minor events. I generally don't post my fanfics until some chapters have been completed because I don't want to screw my future chapters over, and editting your already published fanfic is kind of mean, I think.
As for the writing phrase, I write rough draft out in pencil then copy them to the wordpad. I notice lot of spelling/grammar mistakes, and smooth out many sentences during this transfer process so this works best for me. I fail at this phrase due to my lack of preserverance and dedication though, as 20000 words is currently the longest I started writing fanfiction before giving it up.
-
Okay here's a question that occationally pops up to annoy me: When do you all end a story?
For example in Three Days Bright the ending scene in my mind... well okay the ending scene in my mind never flowed from the story itself, but I thought that having the last human leaving the cards representing the two lead characters working together was a very fitting end point. However there was more to the story in my mind. It just wasn't as strong as an ending.
I added Chapter 6 anyway, simply because I really needed to write something at the time. But I still occasionally wonder if the work as a whole might not be better just ending where I had ended earlier.
So does anyone else run into that concern? Or ever think as a reader that the writer should have just stopped somewhere? (Or conversely wanted the writer to keep going anyway)
(This has NOOO connection to works I'm currently staring at. I promise. :derp:)
-
I'm going to sound entirely simple and say; I end a story when there's nothing else to write on.
Simply put, once I feel I've revealed all I could to the readers, once I've told them all I could tell them about any mysteries the characters had to deal with or whatnot, then I wrap it up as best I can.
I honestly don't have much to say on this being the stories I usually write don't end. Because I never finish them :/
-
I generally overplan things, in that I have a specific starting place and a specific endpoint and a general idea of how to get from point A to point Z, so for me, the issue is not of "how do you end" but "how do you get to the end." The point is, I have a traditional beginning/middle/end planned out, and I know how the "end" will play out.
Let's take an easy example: Redefined Fantastic Object (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=ufo). Since this is a retalling of UFO in my alternate-universe-fic-world, I already have half the story right there. Effectively, the story ends where the game ends.
-
My story-writing thoughtprocesses can be summed up as 'Who is doing what and will they successfully do it?'
Once I have that question answered, it's all about filling in the timeline.
Slight spoiler involving EverWander, but it's not really crucial... Sara and Acied won't make it back to Kaetir. For the sake of EverWander, they stay and adapt to life there. In this case, the end goal for them isn't 'Will they go back', but rather 'Will they survive in Gensokyo'. Trying to find a way back is just another event in the series of events on that timeline that they'll have to experience, and though they fail it, their over-all objective - survive - isn't affected by it. The entire story continues on because of it, but it's not the point behind the story.
In essence, that means that you come up with the exact end-goal you want for the story, then come up with the important plot details, the slightly-less important plot details, and then some of the minutiae between to fill in the gaps. Once you have a chain of plot points going and set in stone, you can essentially 'make up' the little stuff between the bits.
Another EverWander example - when Sara leaves the Voile after Acied shows off his new spellcard - I'd always planned for her to come across Yuka and Haru, as a way of cementing Everlasting Wanderers to the Reborn in Gensokyo storyline. I never thought of having Sara psychically blind Acied, causing him to ask Meiling for aid - which will in the future make Acied feel indebted to Meiling, another very minor plot point - and I didn't really think to use Tenshi as the bridge between Sara and Yuka.
Acied feeling like he owes one to Meiling gives me a potential tool for later that I can easily toss aside. In-story, it's a minor favor that can be repaid with something as simple as bringing her a drink while she's on guard duty sometime, or it could be that Meiling (somehow) is in need of aid that Acied is qualified to offer. I haven't spent any time thinking of a scenario that that could apply to, so that's liable not to happen.
Tenshi, on the other hand, was a necessary addition. If Sara had vandalized the sunflowers herself, Yuka would've directed her hostility towards her. There would be no way I could reasonably get Sara through that kind of situation - she wouldn't be able to beat Yuka without coming across as a Mary Sue, especially since she'd only fired her first danmaku shots the day before, and if she'd gotten herself beaten to a pulp at Yuka's hands, she'd never have a convincing reason to be on pleasant terms with Yuka - which is another potential avenue I could take the story in, and I do in fact have a minor plot arc in mind that makes use of that fact.
In my case, because of the way the gears in my head grind together, story-writing is all about plotting and planning, then filling in the cracks. The best advice I can give, though, is just try to finish a story all the way through, and then read it yourself. See what parts of your writing style you like, what you think needs improvement. See if you like the flow of your story.
Part of the reason I believe Everlasting Wanderers doesn't have a large following is because I spend too much time establishing the characters, and the first few chapters drag on. It could probably use a bit of balancing between action and exposition. See if you can find a happy medium with your works.
-
Well.....Okay....I've finally started to crack down and write Touhou fanfiction, but I have one really big question: How do you write fics with huge amounts of characters?
As anybody who witnessed my epic fail fall to forum laughing stock can attest to, I use OC's in my Touhou fanfic. I use a lot of OC's.
This is where I hit the wall; I love huge casts, but how the hell do I write 50+ girls and 45+ guys into a coherent story, and still show off all their personalities and have good character development (The OC's more than the Touhou's)? The fact that my fanfic is basically the Touhou version of a sitcom only slightly alliviates the problem, as I wish to have second half be more serious and have more character development (while still remaining funny). These are things I cant skimp on; I want every Canon-OC couple to recieve the same amount of character developement.
...Well that was a mouthful.
-Chagen46
-
Well.....Okay....I've finally started to crack down and write Touhou fanfiction, but I have one really big question: How do you write fics with huge amounts of characters?
As anybody who witnessed my epic fail fall to forum laughing stock can attest to, I use OC's in my Touhou fanfic. I use a lot of OC's.
This is where I hit the wall; I love huge casts, but how the hell do I write 50+ girls and 45+ guys into a coherent story, and still show off all their personalities and have good character development (The OC's more than the Touhou's)? The fact that my fanfic is basically the Touhou version of a sitcom only slightly alliviates the problem, as I wish to have second half be more serious and have more character development (while still remaining funny). These are things I cant skimp on; I want every Canon-OC couple to recieve the same amount of character developement.
...Well that was a mouthful.
-Chagen46
You don't.
You choose which ones you want to appear in said story and in what order. Just because you have a load of characters, doesn't mean they all have to appear in one story.
-
Making a multi-cast story succeed means you have to carefully plot out each and every character, carefully, and figure out exactly what impact they'll have on the storyline. Trying to throw them in helter-skelter will just make your story seem schizophrenic. Span them out over a good deal of time in the story; make sure you have distinct personalities for each one; come up with the relationship webs before you get started.
The non-Touhou work that I'm writing - the one Ever Wander's OCs are originally from - will have a cast of about 20-30 named characters that are relevent to the plot in some way. Some for the entire story, and maybe one or two who are only there for literally one or two chapters before their impact alters the events of the story. Just because they won't be mentioned for a long time doesn't mean they won't have a big role in the story; for example, a trio of Mentalist-Magi essentially deliver a message fairly early on in Kaetir. This message goes to the single most skilled Mentalist on Kaetir. He won't come back for a greater part of the story - and the trio/messengers won't come back at all. Doesn't mean they're not important.
Don't be afraid to use some of your many many characters in short-duration throw-away plots or just to advance the story somehow. Just make sure they're not 2D flat characters, who make no attempt to disguise the fact that they're there only to spout a few lines and disappear. Getting that feeling is tricky, but worth the time and effort.
-
I'm leaning closer to Erebus there, but Esifex is right too.
Plan the story out. This works wonders for deciding what characters to use. Make them support the story, not the other way around. If the whole point of the story is to show off the characters, and most of them are OCs, it will not be an interesting story.
-
I'm not technically writing a story, but I have a similar situation to deal with in the text adventure game I'm writing. Since I have such a large cast of characters to play with, I'm letting the players and the story itself determine which characters actually appear. Just letting the story write itself may not be the best advice, but it's what I've been doing so far.
-
Well thanks for the advice. However, the basic way my fic goes is that it's basically a sitcom, with each chapter being like an episode of a show: its own short story. Yes, there is continuity, but looking at the whole fic, there is no actual plot, just a bunch of hilarious--I hope--situations (Hence why I call it a sitcom). The whole point is to showcase a year in the lives of these guys and girls, so it's pretty random (Though, with the way my OC's act, things could be anything but predictable....). Even so, I'm aiming for more character devolopment in the second half, though it will still also be quite funny. So, each chapter could star some different characters. This does bring the problem of getting everybody equal screen time.
Tagento: Behold, Marisa Kirasame, for I have invented the greatest invention of all: The W.E.A.P.O.N.
Marisa:.....Great. So what does it do?
Tagento:...Well, to be honest, I have no idea. It could cure cancer, or it could annihilate all of Gensokyo in a fiery nuclear holocaust.
Yeah, I know that wasn't funny.
-
Tagento: Behold, Marisa Kirasame, for I have invented the greatest invention of all: The W.E.A.P.O.N.
Marisa:.....Great. So what does it do?
Tagento:...Well, to be honest, I have no idea. It could cure cancer, or it could annihilate all of Gensokyo in a fiery nuclear holocaust.
Yeah, I know that wasn't funny.
Marisa: Odds are, it just cures dandruff.
:B
-
Well, going on another note, I thought that since I have a lot of OC's, about some kind of "sequel" to both PMiSS and BAiJR, where Akyu and Aya both make new articles about my OC's. Every chapter would be about a different OC, with the first half having Akyu detail the character (But in much more detail, describing their past--if it's interesting enough--,their weapons, and their relationships with the other citizens of Genso. The eyewitness reports would also be much bigger, with the various Touhou's giving quite detailed descriptions of their views on the particular character) . The second would Aya talk about some of event linked to that character (Except in the case of Aeon, there's a reason for that), and then interview them, as in BAiJR.
I've already started to write them--I'm on the second character--but I want to know If I should even be wasting my time doing this.
-
I would suggest saving that for after your characters are actually introduced. Reading encyclopedic articles and interviews about characters we don't know anything is just boring, so make the characters known first. It'll save you time if certain characters aren't introduced in the story or in the event that you don't get to some.
-
Hmmm... Just a suggestion, but if you have so many OCs... Why not just try to write an original story using only them? I've been planning something similar (I do, in fact, come up with a lot of OCs, even if I don't really talk about any of them, ahah), although it's hardly gotten off the ground (a few notes of planning and about five paragraphs of writing, ahah...), but it's getting there, slowly but... Slowly. Ahem.
It's just that I think that if you come up with lots of original characters, you may as well make an original story to go with them rather than trying to just dump them into a setting that already has an overabundance of characters already. In the end, it's pretty fun to create something from scratch~
...Or maybe that's just me, ahah.
-
Hmmm... Just a suggestion, but if you have so many OCs... Why not just try to write an original story using only them? I've been planning something similar (I do, in fact, come up with a lot of OCs, even if I don't really talk about any of them, ahah), although it's hardly gotten off the ground (a few notes of planning and about five paragraphs of writing, ahah...), but it's getting there, slowly but... Slowly. Ahem.
It's just that I think that if you come up with lots of original characters, you may as well make an original story to go with them rather than trying to just dump them into a setting that already has an overabundance of characters already. In the end, it's pretty fun to create something from scratch~
...Or maybe that's just me, ahah.
There's two reasons:
1: Half 60% 90% ALL of the humor of my touhou fics come from blatantly unsuited my OC's are for the touhou girls, with the girls opinions ranging from "Doesn't get along with him" to "Hates his existence and would do basically anything, ANYTHING to damn him to a horrible death".
2: I hate Yuri (and all female casts). I only like relationships that include at least one guy (So I'm one of the rare guys who like Het and Yaoi--yes, seriously--but dislike Yuri), so I made up some OC's to remedy that. (Yes, that's the main reason they exist in the first place).
Okay, waiting for someone to point out the paradox of me liking Touhou but disliking all female casts and yuri.
-Chagen46
-
Okay, waiting for someone to point out the paradox of me liking Touhou but disliking all female casts and yuri.
Oh hi, Erebus would like a word with you. Dude hates yuri so much, it's written in his personal text.
Anyways, I personally don't see anything wrong with OC's, so long as they're written well and the writer can make me care about them. One way to do this is place them in a story with established Touhou characters that we do care about, of course, but most of all, if you give your characters depth, feeling, FLAWS, foibles and all that other good stuff that makes us human, the reader will care about them.
Some of history's greatest writers had unimaginably huge casts that they introduced gradually over years. Zergrushing them all in at once will only overwhelm the reader.
Take your time, walk them out, one by one, let the reader get to know them intimately, with a lively and engaging style that shows all their human facets.
-
Hmm ... You know, to put it ridiculously bluntly, I personally feel that a story that's solely about "oh, hey, look at these random characters and how they don't remotely fit in this setting!" will get really old really quickly. Worse, 1. these are original characters you've never used in any other context, so people won't be interested in them right off the bat the way they're interested in Reimu and Marisa, and 2. the way you said "the whole point of them is how badly they fit!" makes it seem like you're defining them solely in terms of what they aren't, which for one thing makes them even less-interesting to newcomers.
You really should start with stories centering entirely around them, in situations where they do fit, so that people will care about them in and of themselves. That way, if/when you get around to your original plan, people will actually appreciate them and how badly they fit for who they are.
Also, here's some suggested reading (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/AvoidWritingAMarySue).
-
Ah...so glad to have the next chapter out of the way. Now I wait for Ruro's response... :ohdear:
-
Hello, I'm having some problems writing a chapter in my fic.
Quoting an excerpt:
Alice panned the scenery below her as she floated above the treeline. "Thank goodness it can't fly," Alice muttered. With a few flicks from her wrists, the dolls shifted their positions forward, making a wall of dolls in front of her. With Alice's command, they stretched out their palms and shot out beams of light to the attacker below, promising wanton destruction to the receiver. As the beams made contact on the ground, a cloud smoke rose up, throwing various bits of debris upward.
"Is it dead already?" Alice heard another screech within the cloud, and another barrage of black bullets sped past her way, narrowly missing her. Some of her dolls weren't lucky and they were smashed into pieces as they were shot down.
"Ugh, I hate you already, and this is just our first night," Alice shouted to the rabid youkai below. She was answered by another barrage, and Alice weaved through the mindless, patternless attack while her dolls were being mercilessly shot down. Alice fired back using one of her remaining dolls to suppress the attacks. Shouting in pain, the youkai stopped attacking and glared at Alice with red, hungry eyes. It gave another screech, this one was filled with indignation.
It just won't die, Alice thought angrily. I'll have to retreat at this rate, at least, before I run out of dolls.
I am not experienced in writing out fight scenes, so the above paragraphs sounds a bit bland. If someone would be kind to explain (or at least, give pointers; something that I would take gratefully) some concepts in writing fighting scenes, I would be very grateful.
-
I am not experienced in writing out fight scenes, so the above paragraphs sounds a bit bland. If someone would be kind to explain (or at least, give pointers; something that I would take gratefully) some concepts in writing fighting scenes, I would be very grateful.
One of the tools I use in Kaetir (no one here has read it yet though) is a type of perspective-based descriptions. An analytical mind describes unlocking their magic as a step-by-step scientific process, while someone less educated and more outgoing would describe it as a wonderful sensation of powering up their imagination. It's the same thing each person is doing, but because you cannot actually SEE them using another part of their brain, there's no one way to describe how it's done.
In this scene you've quoted, you have Alice fighting. She's an analytical mind, very tactical and strategic in the way she fights. Stating how the fight turns out, turn for turn like that, works for her. If it were Marisa, you'd have to go into more and more detail, giving better descriptions of how much effort she puts into dodging/grazing, how many close calls there were - things that Marisa would pick up on and keep track of. To Alice, she'd just say 'okay, I dodged it, it doesn't affect me anymore.' In my opinion, that excerpt works fine in the circumstances that it's been presented in.
-
So technically speaking, I should think/write like the character, right?
An interesting approach. I've never tried that before, truth to tell. I'm still experimenting with writing techniques.
-
Here's a pretty cut and dry question; How do you guys feel about starting another story, even though you're nowhere near finished with the old one?
-
Here's a pretty cut and dry question; How do you guys feel about starting another story, even though you're nowhere near finished with the old one?
I generally try to avoid doing this, because my self-discipline sucks and I know I'll end up with like a hundred beginnings of stories if I don't committ to finishing one before starting the next. On the other hand, some stories just kind of go to sleep for a while, and you need to right about something else, or you'll get a story idea that is just too good to wait on.
So, I guess if I keep an eye on myself to make sure I don't have a stack of unfinished stories building up, and I have a burning desire to write a story even if others are waiting, then I don't have a problem doing it.
-
Hmm ... You know, to put it ridiculously bluntly, I personally feel that a story that's solely about "oh, hey, look at these random characters and how they don't remotely fit in this setting!" will get really old really quickly. Worse, 1. these are original characters you've never used in any other context, so people won't be interested in them right off the bat the way they're interested in Reimu and Marisa, and 2. the way you said "the whole point of them is how badly they fit!" makes it seem like you're defining them solely in terms of what they aren't, which for one thing makes them even less-interesting to newcomers.
You really should start with stories centering entirely around them, in situations where they do fit, so that people will care about them in and of themselves. That way, if/when you get around to your original plan, people will actually appreciate them and how badly they fit for who they are.
Well, That wasn?t really my plan in the first place. Some of my OC's have interesting backstories, and some, like Yuji, could have whole fics dedicated to them. It?s just that that could be a lot of work, and I already am working at a slow place, with HellFire Catharsis eating up my time.
Another reason is that My OC?s aren?t really in one big group. Like the Touhou?s, they are all in their own little teams: Tagento/Giovanni/Galvani, Eddy/Ed, Ezio/Grigan/Jiko/Patouli/Sake, Enselm/Marx/, Goemon/Syou/Nir-zan ?.. and many more. Each one of these groups could have their own little fic, and that could take a lot of time?.
Also, here's some suggested reading (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/AvoidWritingAMarySue).
I?ve already read that, many times. I know how to write.
To put it bluntly, I?ve never seen you as this much of an critic before. What're you so pissed off about?
-
I?ve already read that, many times. I know how to write.
To put it bluntly, I?ve never seen you as this much of an critic before. What're you so pissed off about?
First, you never stop learning how to write.
Second, nothing in Muffin's post indicates he's "pissed off" about anything. He's just offering criticism. You can take it or leave it as you desire.
-
First, you never stop learning how to write.
I never said that. What I was saying is that I?m aware of how to avoid writing a Mary Sue.
Second, nothing in Muffin's post indicates he's "pissed off" about anything. He's just offering criticism. You can take it or leave it as you desire.
Yeah, that?s my problem; I can?t take criticism, no matter how hard I try. I?ve been really trying to get over it, but it can be really difficult.
-
Yeah, that's my problem; I can't take criticism, no matter how hard I try. I've been really trying to get over it, but it can be really difficult.
From what I see of it, some people respond to criticism as an "insult" to their work; "some random guy comes around picking apart the bad things about MY story/pic? RAGE!!" Being on the internet seems to make this worse for some reason (probably because people on the internet can be absolute pricks for no reason). The first step in taking any form of criticism is to filter out insult from advice and then see that the person who's giving you this "advice" is simply pointing out what can be improved upon. People giving you this critique must see some promise in your ability to actually care enough to help you get better at, so why not take up on their words and see what you can do to better yourself at it?
Trust me I used to be the same way, but when I saw it like how I exaplained above, I got better with it. Hell, now I ASK for it now, even though a few years back I wouldn't have even done such a thing.
-
If you can't take any criticism, you really shouldn't ask for advice, because inevitably at some point that advice will be "do something differently from what you're currently doing/planning on doing." :V
And my point was that even if they are interesting on their own, as compared to the existing Touhou cast, you're the only one who knows this. Here's an example: that little dialogue between Tagento and Marisa kinda made me think, "Who's this weirdo, and why does he(?) already seem to be friends with Marisa?" But if you wrote a story which introduced and centered around him (or, even better, in which he met Marisa for the first time, from Marisa's perspective which is that he's a total stranger), and made stories which allowed people to get to know him, it would go over much better.
Put it another way: canon, established characters are everybody's friends, because we know them very well (or as well as we need to). OCs are complete strangers, and you need to actually introduce us to them if you want anyone us to be friends wit hthem.
-
If you can't take any criticism, you really shouldn't ask for advice, because inevitably at some point that advice will be "do something differently from what you're currently doing/planning on doing." :V
And my point was that even if they are interesting on their own, as compared to the existing Touhou cast, you're the only one who knows this. Here's an example: that little dialogue between Tagento and Marisa kinda made me think, "Who's this weirdo, and why does he(?) already seem to be friends with Marisa?" But if you wrote a story which introduced and centered around him (or, even better, in which he met Marisa for the first time, from Marisa's perspective which is that he's a total stranger), and made stories which allowed people to get to know him, it would go over much better.
Put it another way: canon, established characters are everybody's friends, because we know them very well (or as well as we need to). OCs are complete strangers, and you need to actually introduce us to them if you want anyone us to be friends wit hthem.
Actually, I was planning on making a bunch of stories, from the Touhou girl's perspectives, that showcased each girl's first meeting with the OC's. So I guess that's settled.
And the little Tagento/Marisa dialog was for a little joke. Wasnt expecting you to actually think about it that much.
-
And the little Tagento/Marisa dialog was for a little joke. Wasnt expecting you to actually think about it that much.
But you do see the point he's making regardless, right?
-
But you do see the point he's making regardless, right?
Of course I do. Hell, I'm writing that little "Tagento and Marisa's first meeting" fic right now (It'll be told from Marisa's perspective).
The only thing I'm wondering is how long should I make it. One chapter, a few? I'll probably go with a few, though.
EDIT: Also, this fic now actually has a plot line. Problem is, with an actual storyline, I cant just have it be the "Random Hilarious Situations" I planned it to be. God dammit. Should I keep the plot, ot let it be?
-
Well, all the rage right now seems to be non-traditional story formats.
Journal entries! XX Month, XX Day; Met Tagento again. Had another invention he didn't know he made.
Does he make things in his sleep? Must remember to ask about this.
-
Well, all the rage right now seems to be non-traditional story formats.
Journal entries! XX Month, XX Day; Met Tagento again. Had another invention he didn't know he made.
Does he make things in his sleep? Must remember to ask about this.
Huh. Well, I've already started to write it. Now, each Touhou girl will have her own short story where she meets whatever OC she meets and then things go one from there. One I'm finished with all those--and it's going to take a while--then I'll start the main story.
Damit, gotta leave the library. Wont be able to talk to everybody until tommorrow.
-
Here's a pretty cut and dry question; How do you guys feel about starting another story, even though you're nowhere near finished with the old one?
Everyone does it, especially if you need to take a break from the main thing you're working on by writing something different. Let me say, though, from the standpoint of the cold, harsh reality of an audience: an unfinished story isn't a story. On top of that, the world of fanfiction, and Touhou fanfiction is by far no exception, is choked with the first halves of things that will never be finished. Finishing a fic is the single biggest thing you can do to make it worth reading. So, I mean, take breaks, do other things, but it's up to your self-control; some people have no problem juggling a bunch of stories, others will get lured away from the first and never return. (ETA: Looking back at this I'm sorta confused and I think I drifted from the original topic. It's not like I think you're considering leaving the story unfinished. But I think there's value in trying not to let a partial fic go untouched any longer than it needs to. Good writing definitely takes time, and again everyone's gotta take breaks. But all else being equal, finishing what you've started is a good priority to have.)
DeathShot Catharsis, taking criticism is a vitally important skill, but it is definitely one you can practice. Hardly anybody starts out finding it fun, you know? The best advice I know is to try and deal with your feelings separately from it. When you first read the criticism and you get upset, leave it for a while and go handle that feeling. Distract yourself, cheer yourself up, or sulk, cry, punch a pillow, rant to someone you can trust; don't suppress it, don't dwell on it, get it out of your system. Then go back and look at the crit again when you're feeling better.
I know you've taken a lot of crap about your OCs already, but I hope you can take a step back and understand that realistically. Some of the things you talk about really, truly are often lead-ins to bad writing; that doesn't mean your writing is bad, but it does mean people honestly have good reason to be suspicious. You can say that you're different, that you've put a lot of work into making sure you avoid those pitfalls, but nobody else can know that until they see the results. So most of the people here aren't trying to shut down your project, they are trying to make very, very certain that you can do it right. There's always going to be pessimism and I'm sure it gets really old, but remind yourself that you have nothing to worry about as long as the proof will be in the pudding.
...Especially since you've said yourself that the reason behind the creation of your OCs is essentially that you want to fix a major characteristic of Touhou that you don't like. But you must realize that most of your audience here are fans who do like that characteristic, often quite a bit. You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone your fix is a good thing until you have something to show for it. Honestly, I completely relate to not wanting to do yuri, I can sympathize with not liking it in a fandom where it's omnipresent, but that response seems odd to me too. Is there a reason why every girl needs to be in a relationship in the first place? I don't get you sometimes, fandom.
-
Oh, by the way - something everyone would do well to keep in mind, especially Deathshot.
All characters at some point started as OCs. It takes a lot of effort to get them to become accepted, and they only become canon when they earn fans.
-
Oh, by the way - something everyone would do well to keep in mind, especially Deathshot.
All characters at some point started as OCs. It takes a lot of effort to get them to become accepted, and they only become canon when they earn fans.
Unless you've built yourself up to the point that ZUN has, where he can basically sketch out a random character, write a quick backstory, and BAM-fanbase.
-
Unless you've built yourself up to the point that ZUN has, where he can basically sketch out a random character, write a quick backstory, and BAM-fanbase.
Lolhijiri :derp:
-
EDIT: Also, this fic now actually has a plot line. Problem is, with an actual storyline, I cant just have it be the "Random Hilarious Situations" I planned it to be. God dammit. Should I keep the plot, ot let it be?
Go with the storyline. If nothing else, you have a plan now, and it narrows the question of "What the hell do I do next?" down to "How do I get from point A to point B?"
-
DeathShot Catharsis, taking criticism is a vitally important skill, but it is definitely one you can practice. Hardly anybody starts out finding it fun, you know? The best advice I know is to try and deal with your feelings separately from it. When you first read the criticism and you get upset, leave it for a while and go handle that feeling. Distract yourself, cheer yourself up, or sulk, cry, punch a pillow, rant to someone you can trust; don't suppress it, don't dwell on it, get it out of your system. Then go back and look at the crit again when you're feeling better.
I know...One thing I read said not to react immediately, as you're usually in "post-crit shock" and will say something stupid.
...Especially since you've said yourself that the reason behind the creation of your OCs is essentially that you want to fix a major characteristic of Touhou that you don't like. But you must realize that most of your audience here are fans who do like that characteristic, often quite a bit. You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone your fix is a good thing until you have something to show for it. Honestly, I completely relate to not wanting to do yuri, I can sympathize with not liking it in a fandom where it's omnipresent, but that response seems odd to me too. Is there a reason why every girl needs to be in a relationship in the first place? I don't get you sometimes, fandom.
Uh......, I haven't made an OC for every girl. Over 20 of them gave escaped harm: Mostly girls I don't really care about (The Aki sisters, Parsee, Yaname, Hina) or the Pc-98 chars 9I have pledged to never mae OC's for any of them except Reimu, Marisa, and Yuka).
-
Something to consider, too - not every girl REALLY needs a man. Doesn't mean a man won't pursue her, but she doesn't have to be receptive.
My view on Alice screams 'bachlorette for life', be it with a male or female partner. Doesn't mean I wouldn't turn my charm and sexy super sexy baritone sauve-ness up to eleven around her. A for Effort, you know.
-
Something to consider, too - not every girl REALLY needs a man. Doesn't mean a man won't pursue her, but she doesn't have to be receptive.
As odd as it may be with me writing a romantic VN script I always despise it when a character needs a relationship, or is tossed into one just to fill up a slot. I try very hard to avoid shipping for it's own sake (something I'm terrible about) and to make sure that characters enter into relationships because that's what they want to do.
Another thing I do my best to avoid is having characters only revolve around one other character, barring shorts of course. They need to have an independant web of interactions if at all possible (you don't make it easy Koa!). That's one of the things thats tying up my Maribel/Renko story (and will tie it up for some time...)
(Note these are just idle rambling and are in no way directed at anyone, save perhaps myself.)
-
Yeah, that's more what I meant; it may not be literally every girl who's getting a boyfriend. And, c'mon, you've gotta admit, arguing that falls a bit flat when a) the number you cite of girls you don't have OCs for is substantially lower than the number of OCs you've cited, and b) you admit that most of those are characters you're just not interested in to begin with. It's more like "Why does every girl you want to focus on need to be in a relationship?"
But that is my perspective as someone who's generally not into shipping in general. I find most romances pretty boring -- and the ones I do like, I find, are ones I can see as natural outgrowths of the characters' pre-existing interactions. So pairing characters off for the sake of pairing characters off is rather unappealing to me. (Actually, as far as Touhou goes, the fact that there's absolutely nothing I ship* is a little unusual, especially since I usually lean towards yuri. The whole series just seems so asexual to me, and unromantic too, and I'd hate to muck that up.)
But I realize that that's... ahem. Not everyone's feeling, to say the least, in this fandom or any other. Besides, it's not like merely having romance makes a story automatically bad (although my preferences mean that poorly done romance turns me off lightning quick). 'Scool.
* Technically, there are a couple pairings that I like, but I don't consider myself to ship them; they're nice, but at the end of the day I'm still happier with the whole world being platonic.
-
Good day, and thanks for answering my question in my last post.
Anyway, I'm experimenting with this certain style of : present-flashback-present narration in my writing.
My main problem is when to use it, when it is over-used, and when it lacks context that it confuses the reader. Any tips? I would be thankful.
-
I'm sorry, I'd need an example of this. Do you mean a 'present-tense flashback'?
-
Something to consider, too - not every girl REALLY needs a man. Doesn't mean a man won't pursue her, but she doesn't have to be receptive.
My view on Alice screams 'bachlorette for life', be it with a male or female partner. Doesn't mean I wouldn't turn my charm and sexy super sexy baritone sauve-ness up to eleven around her. A for Effort, you know.
As much as I'm in the same boat as you DeathShot, this. Pushing it will only make things seemed forced and that will most likely kill interest.
I'll use Mystic Mutation for an example; I have about 3 male OCs in it as of now (The manticore Gao-san, the tiger who is unnamed for now, and the pheonix Suzaku). I could easily pull them all off and stick them with Yumemi, Chiyuri and Rikako in that order, but I choose to weave the story including them first. Let the reader see who these guys are and get a feel for them first (as said before).
-
Good day, and thanks for answering my question in my last post.
Anyway, I'm experimenting with this certain style of : present-flashback-present narration in my writing.
My main problem is when to use it, when it is over-used, and when it lacks context that it confuses the reader. Any tips? I would be thankful.
Up until the final chapter I think you were doing it perfectly. I'm not sure you can overuse it, since your story was set up from the beginning to include flashbacks, so the reader is expecting them. Of course the flashbacks have to be interesting on there own, but that's true of any block of writing.
The confusion came in the last chapter. Your flashbacks need to have a way of conveying when they are. I couldn't tell when that dream was in relation to the other flashbacks, or if it was a dream on it's own (in which case duplicating the flashback's visual style was probably the error.) The other flashbacks were fairly clear as to their chronological order (though it helps that I know MS).
Still it's only a small thing. I expected it'd be cleared up in one of the later chapters. Just keep track of which of your flashbacks don't give a good indication of when they happened and use the ones that are well set up to keep them organized.
-
Yeah, I'm not even gonna start on how shipping with OCs is playing with fire. It's possible to do it well, but it's the kind of thing where if you posted it on Fanfiction.net or whatever, some idiots would flame you for it even if you were the second coming of Shakespeare. It doesn't automatically make them Marty Stus, but it's the kind of thing that raises red flags.
Shipping between OCs, now ... mmmm, yaoi
-
Shipping between OCs, now ... mmmm, yaoi
.....To be sadly honest, my Yaoi Fanboy means I have indulgded in this a few times. Never going to write it, though, because I'm well aware of how few people actually want to see that.
Another thing I do my best to avoid is having characters only revolve around one other character, barring shorts of course. They need to have an independant web of interactions if at all possible (you don't make it easy Koa!). That's one of the things thats tying up my Maribel/Renko story (and will tie it up for some time...)
Yup, that?s one of my really big problems: When I thought all the crap I came up with in my mind, I realized that my OC?s focused basically all of their attention on one touhou girl, and no one else?even their own family. Tanner did nothing but bug Ran, despite having a shikigami (Yuji) and being a shikigami himself. Aeon did nothing but be angsty around Aya, even when he had his two brothers to go to for help. Ezio and Grigan talked with Koishi and Satori constantly, despite being brothers. Elrich barely communicated with anybody besides Remilia, despite seeing the other SDM residents every day.
?..But dealing with all these relationships can be difficult as fuck. My goals are way too ambitious.
My view on Alice screams 'bachlorette for life', be it with a male or female partner. Doesn't mean I wouldn't turn my charm and sexy super sexy baritone sauve-ness up to eleven around her. A for Effort, you know.
That?s basically what she?s written as in the fic: She goes to insane lengths to kick Giovanni out of her house, and has no interest in him (besides killing evicting him), but always fails in the end?..
-
I'm actually tempted to continue the self-insert fic from the Weekly Writing Challenge. Though I don't know if anyone would actually be interested in reading it. :V Does this sound like anything anyone would consider actually reading?
-
I'm actually tempted to continue the self-insert fic from the Weekly Writing Challenge. Though I don't know if anyone would actually be interested in reading it. :V Does this sound like anything anyone would consider actually reading?
Yes, and I've had the same idea for mine, too. Maybe turn it into an Origins story for the Esifex in the MotKverse (psychic german sarcastic observer)
-
I saw the self-insert contest and thought it was a pretty neat idea, but I'm already kinda doing that in RPG. :x
-
I keep toying with the idea of making an Ijiyatsu/whatever fic in which Muffin excessively tries to prank Sana, but each time fails in the face of Sana's excessive Sananess.
-
I'm actually tempted to continue the self-insert fic from the Weekly Writing Challenge. Though I don't know if anyone would actually be interested in reading it. :V Does this sound like anything anyone would consider actually reading?
Please have a look at the Librarian stories and think again whether no-one wants to read self-insert stories. :3
I for one would love to see your story continue, especially with the cut-in-use~
Same for Esifex's story~
-
I keep toying with the idea of making an Ijiyatsu/whatever fic in which Muffin excessively tries to prank Sana, but each time fails in the face of Sana's excessive Sananess.
We have some IjiFics, and now some IjiTextAdventureGames, both starring Sana. I, for one, wouldn't object to more well-done contributions~
-
Up until the final chapter I think you were doing it perfectly. I'm not sure you can overuse it, since your story was set up from the beginning to include flashbacks, so the reader is expecting them. Of course the flashbacks have to be interesting on there own, but that's true of any block of writing.
The confusion came in the last chapter. Your flashbacks need to have a way of conveying when they are. I couldn't tell when that dream was in relation to the other flashbacks, or if it was a dream on it's own (in which case duplicating the flashback's visual style was probably the error.) The other flashbacks were fairly clear as to their chronological order (though it helps that I know MS).
Still it's only a small thing. I expected it'd be cleared up in one of the later chapters. Just keep track of which of your flashbacks don't give a good indication of when they happened and use the ones that are well set up to keep them organized.
Thanks for the reply, I'll keep that in mind.
Chapter 5 is a little bit weak compared to others, but it's mostly because I'm still inexperienced.
-
Thanks for the reply, I'll keep that in mind.
Chapter 5 is a little bit weak compared to others, but it's mostly because I'm still inexperienced.
Sometimes chapters just end up weaker. Especially when you've got something like exposition to give or have written yourself into a corner. You just have to do your best and make sure that the story as a whole moves you through that spot.
So long as the weak point isn't the beginning or the end, and so long as you keep working at it you should be able to smooth it over.
-
So long as the weak point isn't the beginning or the end, and so long as you keep working at it you should be able to smooth it over.
Hmm. Found EverWanderers' weakness; too much exposition at the beginning, I reckon?
-
Please have a look at the Librarian stories and think again whether no-one wants to read self-insert stories. :3
I for one would love to see your story continue, especially with the cut-in-use~
Consider it in the queue! :D
Hehe, and I second the Esifex continuation too~
-
Sometimes chapters just end up weaker. Especially when you've got something like exposition to give or have written yourself into a corner. You just have to do your best and make sure that the story as a whole moves you through that spot.
So long as the weak point isn't the beginning or the end, and so long as you keep working at it you should be able to smooth it over.
I don't have a problem with the plot right now, it's still going as planned. It's how I tell it that really makes my writing slow.
]
Especially when you've got something like exposition to give
Can someone elaborate this? I didn't quite understand...
-
I'm actually tempted to continue the self-insert fic from the Weekly Writing Challenge. Though I don't know if anyone would actually be interested in reading it. :V Does this sound like anything anyone would consider actually reading?
I actually considered this too, being the piece itself had potential for continuing but I decided against it since it probably wouldn't be very interesting to others anyway. To be honest, the cut ins you used in that one shot were what got my attention, if you use those in the fic, you'd no doubt do the same to others who pass by.
-
Can someone elaborate this? I didn't quite understand...
Exposition is when you put the storytelling on hold and explain a lot of stuff.
It'd be like giving a history of the feud between Kaguya and Mokou instead of actually describing the fight they're having on this particular day that your story takes place.
-
Tanner [...] Yuji [...] Aeon [...] Ezio and Grigan [...] Elrich [...] Giovanni
There are characters named Remilia, Patchouli, Murasa, Yuyuko, and Cirno.
Grigio [...] Yuyuko [...] Jennifer [...] Remilia [...] Christia [...] Marina
Okay seriously you need to tone that down. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AerithAndBob)
-
Heh. Magtheridon, Master of the Netherstorm! ... and his girlfriend Kim.
-
I actually considered this too, being the piece itself had potential for continuing but I decided against it since it probably wouldn't be very interesting to others anyway. To be honest, the cut ins you used in that one shot were what got my attention, if you use those in the fic, you'd no doubt do the same to others who pass by.
But I want to see what happens if you get to Shinki. :<
I like the idea of using 'gimmicks' in fiction to spice it up and/or keep things refreshing and interesting (though nothing on the level of House of Leaves, ehehe :toot:). In the Dating Service thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2834.0) way back, that's why I started using images. Also, judicious use of text formatting. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2834.msg125858#msg125858)
I guess i'm destined to write visual novels or something :V
-
But I want to see what happens if you get to Shinki. :<
I don't. Sakuya fucks shit up.
J/k
Seriously though, I might do it, but I'll have to keep a serious watch on the Sue status. I'm already pushing it with a self insert (which was justified in the weekly challenge).
-
Okay seriously you need to tone that down. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AerithAndBob)
I don't see what the problem about having a large variety of names in a work of fiction is. I think I'm entitled to name them whatever I please.
-
I don't see what the problem about having a large variety of names in a work of fiction is. I think I'm entitled to name them whatever I please.
I didn't click on the link he was showing you - because TVTropes is a terrible, terrible place - but I'm guessing he's talking about pairing characters together where one has some wondrous, otherworldly name and the other has a very mundane, every-day name.
Personally, I think it's worth a chuckle as a gimmick in a comedy, but it's been done a lot.
-
Yeah, that's basically what the trope "Aerith And Bob" is. It's like, you're naming your group Arthos, Porthos, Aramis, and Phil. Or Larry, Curly, Moe, and Grignr. It's justified if Aerith and Bob are explicitly from different nations/cultures/whatever, but either way it's a bit silly.
-
"By what name are you known?"
"There are some who call me... Tim?"
-
"By what name are you known?"
"There are some who call me... Tim?"
THE CONJURER!
-
To be fair, there's some odd variety to names in canon Touhou anyway. Although there may be patterns to it -- I think just about everyone in Gensokyo who has a non-Japanese name is some sort of youkai, aren't they?
...If you don't count Marisa.
-
To be fair, there's some odd variety to names in canon Touhou anyway. Although there may be patterns to it -- I think just about everyone in Gensokyo who has a non-Japanese name is some sort of youkai, aren't they?
...If you don't count Marisa.
Considering that the amount of humans that are in the series is really underwhelming, I wouldn't be too surprised. :V
-
I don't see what the problem about having a large variety of names in a work of fiction is. I think I'm entitled to name them whatever I please.
Sure, you're allowed to name them however you please, but it's still rather jarring to have Jennifer and Tanner be best friends with Aeon and Grigio. It looks like you're just choosing names based on Rule of Cool more than anything else.
-
Sure, you're allowed to name them however you please, but it's still rather jarring to have Jennifer and Tanner be best friends with Aeon and Grigio. It looks like you're just choosing names based on Rule of Cool more than anything else.
Remember, Tanner and Aeon are from two completely different societies, where their names make sense and fit.
In HellFire Catharsis, Jennifer is an American and Grigio is French. Plus, it takes place in modern day times, where it's quite common for people to quite differenf names.
-
Okay, just as long as this is clear in-story.
-
Exposition is when you put the storytelling on hold and explain a lot of stuff.
It'd be like giving a history of the feud between Kaguya and Mokou instead of actually describing the fight they're having on this particular day that your story takes place.
Thank you for clarifying. I didn't know that's what it was called.
...Arthos, Porthos, Aramis...
Those are the Three Musketeers, am I correct? For some odd reason, I found the whole post a bit entertaining when I saw these three names.
The name discussion seem to remind me of Poe's Thingum Bob...
-
Those are the Three Musketeers, am I correct? For some odd reason, I found the whole post a bit entertaining when I saw these three names.
Yes, they are, thanks. |3
Also, I'm guilty of wall-of-text exposition. It's one of the reasons my RNL arc in my comic was such crap ... In my prose, though, I try to keep it to single paragraphs at a time, and break it up so I only reveal it on a "what is relevant right now" basis.
-
I RETURN
So, that Marisa/Tagento story's sorta going well.
I'm lying, of course.
Well, it's not going to hell, but I have one big problem: I'm really crappy at adding detail to stuff. Dialougue? Sure, that's easy. But actually detailing things? Oh, god, I fall apart. Those who believe in the way of the trope would recongnize my writing style as Beige Prose (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeigeProse). I'm just really bad at this kind of thing. Plus, even though Marisa is narrating the story herself, she rarely ever gives her opinion on things, espicially when there's a conversation going on: She usually just sits there and reports what's being said, but she almost never makes some kind of comment on the events around her.... witness (Note that these are first drafts):
Marisa is introducing Tagento to her house.
Inside my house, Tagento admired quite a few of my possessions. "Looks very.....Japanese...."
"That's because it is Japanese."
"How'd a little girl like you get a house like this?"
Oh, there you go with that little girl bullshit again.
"Look, I'm twenty-two. That's a fact."
"But....you look like a ten-year-old......"
"Why? Is there something about me that makes me look so young?"
"I guess it's the hat."
I wondered what he thought about me without the hat, so I took it off. "Well, how about now?"
"Well....you look older and younger at the same time. You look older because you don't have the ridiculous hat on. On the other hand, You appear younger because of your hair and your face....but I must say, you are rather cute, like my....n-nevermind."
I didn't know why, but his comment made me feel better for some reason. I didn't want to admit it, but I blushed a little.
"Oh, sorry."
"It's nothing. I mean it. It's just....I dont think anybody has ever called me cute-well, lots of girls, but no guys....They all think I look like a little girl, like you did."
"Well, you look like a little girl and a grown woman at the same time...but it's that strange contrast that makes you cute." He smiled in a sort of smirk, but it wasn't insulting. He clearly was a person who loved to caustically insult people and rearely hand out compliments.
I was about to say something, before I realized I hadn't told Tagento my name. "Wait, I haven't even told you my name! I'm Marisa. Marisa Kirasame."
"Well, I must thank you telling me your name. I was wondering if you had one at all."
"Um...come on into the guest room."
I led Tagento into the guest room, a room I had furnished with things from the outside world (I picked them up at Rinnosuke's). It was made in case someone from the outside went through the boundary and landed up near my House, which, in case you bothered to read what I had just wrote, had just happened. However, I ended using it as a reading room--hey, don't get mad at me, sofas are comfortable!
As such, it was absolutely packed with books. And it seemed that Tagento really loved books, because as he saw it, he basically had an orgasm. Seriously, he acted like I didn't even exist and bolted for the shelves, and he must've spent at least an hour picking ones off the shelves, putting some back, picking up some more, putting some back....by the time he was done, he had a armful of literally 20 books.
".....So I guess you like books."
"What made you guess?" He said in a light-hearted tone.
I dont know, the fact that you spent an hour picking them out?
"I guessed."
"...It's not use trying to get a straight answer out of you." He pulled one off the top shelf. "But I noticed something. A lot of these are magic books. I mean, magic doesn't exist."
"Yes it does." I deadpanned.
"No, it doesn't-"
"It does. We're going to Yukari."
....That isn't winning any awards. On the contrary, I currently believe that above excerpt would make literay critics want to gouge their eyes out. However, I have a tendency to insult myself and believe everything I do is crap, so maybe I'm overreacting. Well, am I?
-
A few more little sarcastic asides from Marisa, or maybe a little more detail in her descriptions of the actions.
-
Been reading the Advent Cirno comics again and I have to ask...has anyone ever made a story about the Scarlet Devil Sky Pirates? Patchy as a mechanic is just so...awesome!
-
I have another question, if it isn't too much trouble.
This is about mixing Japanese language with an english fiction:
As her prayer rose in tempo, Reimu became composed and seemed to be enveloped in white light. Reimu clasped her hands together and shouted at the top of her voice.
"Kami Gi [Ya Hou Ki Baku Jin]!!"
Would it had been better to put the english name instead? I know its a matter of preference but if it adds too much confusion, it loses it charm.
-
Just leave it like that. In fact, I would even recommend putting it in Kanji and hiragana.
If people want to translate it, they can use the internet.
It's like how I've been adding sentences in German to my fiction without giving any translations~
If it's done right and fits the story, I think using another language at times adds to the charm and atmosphere.
-
It's like how I've been adding sentences in German to my fiction without giving any translations~
If it's done right and fits the story, I think using another language at times adds to the charm and atmosphere.
Difference being, though, so far the German hasn't ever actually been plot-important. You're also not going overboard with it, keeping it simple and restricted to one or two lines per story.
-
It's really best to keep your readers in mind when it comes to things like this. If they're english speakers, putting random bits of other languages into it is pretty much saying "Hey guess what, you aren't allowed to actually know what this means!". So if you're being intentionally obscure, it's a good idea to make certain the payoff is worth it. It can give a good for'n feel, but there's a whole lot of things to keep in mind when doing that. Otherwise you get into stuff like people who speak english but then say oui instead of yes, which no one actually does.
I'm of the opinion it shouldn't be done without a very good reason.
-
Well, it appears to me Coin Spire only wants to use the Japanese for attack/spellcard names, which I personally find okay.
Also, I think if one uses another language, best use some simple sentences that Google Translate will get right, so that everyone has a fair chance of understanding them. :D
-
Yeah, if you're going to make your readers have to make the extra effort to understand your story, when they're doing you the favor to reading it to begin with, at least make it not so difficult.
-
I have another question, if it isn't too much trouble.
This is about mixing Japanese language with an english fiction:
Would it had been better to put the english name instead? I know its a matter of preference but if it adds too much confusion, it loses it charm.
While attack names are normally okay to leave in Japanese, in Touhou spellcards are an intricate part of the setting. For example I knew that was Omnidirectional Demon Binding Circle from the description, but the spellcard declaration itself looked wrong. I don't consider it a serious distraction, but I'd suggest using the English names in this particular case.
-
Thank you for the opinions, it was very helpful.
I'll try to keep the pointers given in mind.
Well then, I should try to at least make my future works easier to understand. ;)
-
Hey, I was wondering: should this (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction) be updated?
-
Yes, however, its hard to remember that part of the wiki even exists...
Then there's the fact that the number of updates at this point is up Tenshi's skirt to high heaven. :ohdear:
-
That looks like something that, if it were really up to day, would be a sprawling useless mess and kinda there mostly for vanity.
But this is what wikis are for. Go for it as you all please~
-
I think it could well be organized and easy to navigate if changed to be so. Nothing saying it must keep its current format, nor that it would be vanity (unless you only added your own material). It could be great.
Anyway, it was just a thought.
-
A quick question:
Is this place for Touhou fanfics only, or can I post and ask for advice on, let's say, a Hetalia fanfic?
-
A rare Baity!Post appears!
Any type of fanfic flies here. Go nuts (figuratively speaking of course).
For example, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5944.0) isn't Touhou-related. Well, unless you want to count a derivation of a derivation of a derivation but that's besides the point.
So yes, you can post and ask advice on well, just about writing fiction in general here.
Well, this is from what I'm gathering by lurking around anyway
.
-
A rare Baity!Post appears!
Any type of fanfic flies here. Go nuts (figuratively speaking of course).
For example, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5944.0) isn't Touhou-related. Well, unless you want to count a derivation of a derivation of a derivation but that's besides the point.
So yes, you can post and ask advice on well, just about writing fiction in general here.
Well, this is from what I'm gathering by lurking around anyway
MISINFORMATION >:(
Nah, it's cool. My recommendation is that you might want to put something like [Hetalia] in the subject so people don't assume it's a Touhou fic at first glance. This might not be the ideal audience for some followings. Though you'll probably be able to find a Hetalia fan or two around here they might be closer than you think write nao plz :<
-
I see, Nobu, I see BV
Fav yaoi-pairing? I'll do anything except RussiaxAnyone other than China or UK/USxJapan. I refuse to do Japan.
DenSu and GerIta are a big +.
-
F-Fav yaoi pairing? But they're just all buddies, right? :ohdear:
-
Sure, sure... *Cue evil cackling*
And Russia is only giving China a massage now and then...
And those funny noises Japan hears almost every night is just Germany and Italy playing Twister...
Srsly, no pairings you like?
-
Since we're talking fiction, I may as well get something out of the way.
Am I the only one here who's never really confident in anything he writes? With every update I make to Rising Star I find myself wondering 'Crap, have I blown this? Have I taken the story down the wrong direction? Did I miss a bunch of silly looking typos? Am I going to look bad for screwing this segment up?', and I can't calm down over it until someone comments saying otherwise.
Is that part of the job description, or am I just paranoid?
-
All part of the process, Rou.
-
I can work myself into feeling confident about a piece, but even then there's lingering doubts. I'm pretty sure it's standard writing procedure really. If you use it as a reminder to proofread your work it can be a useful reaction. Otherwise try to ignore it.
-
Since we're talking fiction, I may as well get something out of the way.
Am I the only one here who's never really confident in anything he writes? With every update I make to Rising Star I find myself wondering 'Crap, have I blown this? Have I taken the story down the wrong direction? Did I miss a bunch of silly looking typos? Am I going to look bad for screwing this segment up?', and I can't calm down over it until someone comments saying otherwise.
Is that part of the job description, or am I just paranoid?
All part of the process, Rou.
Seriously.
I used to feel this way, until I stopped caring and wrote what I felt was the best. If I think I need some help, then I ask for it. Plain n' simple.
-
I'm still halfway through that phase myself - anything that doesn't get positive feedback starts to wither, a la Everlasting Wanderers. Is that on the third page by now? Hah.
-
Feedback and useful criticism helps a whole lot. I try to leave it whenever I read something.
-
Yeah ... sometimes, when I finally release, I'm feeling like "argh, but I still need to ... BAH SCREW IT I'LL JUST PUT IT OUT NOW IT IS TIME TO PUT IT OUT NOW"
-
Having little to no feedback on your written work is the same as folks saying "We're too concerned with other stories to care about yours, keep writing and we'll continue to not care."
-
Having little to no feedback on your written work is the same as folks saying "We're too concerned with other stories to care about yours, keep writing and we'll continue to not care."
You just made me think "Then I might as well just forget about my fanfic and do something else."
...But then again, it is Hetalia, and this forum is generally for Touhou, so... >_>
-
It may also mean that they have nothing to add, that they doubt their critiquing abilities, that they prefer to just read, etc.
-
I'm with Ammy here. A number of fics get few comments, but the View-count indicates that a lot of people are reading it. Don't let lack of comments discourage you.
-
I run a text-adventure game on the RPG board, and even if there are only a few regular players/posters, both the viewcount and some private comments let me know that people are continuing to read it. It's not fanfiction, but it's still related to what you're talking about, so...
-
Indeed, don't discount the viewcount.
-
New feature proposition for Bizarro MotK: the Like button.
-
I'm gonna start another Hetalia fic~
...But IDK who's gonna be in it.
...
...
...NOOOOOBUUUUUU. What characters do you want me to useeee~?
I won't make yaoi out of it :3
Maybe...
-
New feature proposition for Bizarro MotK: the Like button.
I've been thinking Favorites - like Metafilter's system, where they serve as both Likes and bookmarks - for comments and threads would be good for MotK, too.
-
New feature proposition for Bizarro MotK: the Like button.
Okay so we need to implement the feature, so I can Like the post, so we can encourage the mods to implement the feature....
-
Since we're talking fiction, I may as well get something out of the way.
Am I the only one here who's never really confident in anything he writes? With every update I make to Rising Star I find myself wondering 'Crap, have I blown this? Have I taken the story down the wrong direction? Did I miss a bunch of silly looking typos? Am I going to look bad for screwing this segment up?', and I can't calm down over it until someone comments saying otherwise.
Is that part of the job description, or am I just paranoid?
I feel this, too. I'm writing the "Touhou - The so-called Baby Boom" in an English version based on the Portuguese version I made previously. The versions are somehow very different from on to another, because I feel that I screwed up the plot on thew Portuguese version, so I'm reiventing the plot on this English version.
I have a thing that I say to mimself when I'm writing, and I'm not sure if it's true, but...
The thing is: "If you have fun when writing something, the reader will have fun when reading that."
-
"If you have fun when writing something, the reader will have fun when reading that."
It depends, I suppose, but that sounds about right.
-
More or less. Of course, then you get into things people don't think are fun even though you know it's awesome to write it...
-
Well, assuming "skilled writer," it more-or-less works. Though yeah, I've found myself capable of writing things I wouldn't want to actually read/consume ...
-
More or less. Of course, then you get into things people don't think are fun even though you know it's awesome to write it...
It's called eccentricity isn't it? It's a fun trait to have, in my opinion.
-
It's called eccentricity isn't it? It's a fun trait to have, in my opinion.
Sure, whatever.
-
Don't you just hate it when you have a bunch of material that you want to work with, have written outlines for a number of scenes you really like, and yet you're missing that one important plot thread that allows them all to fit together logically? I know where I want to arrive, I'm just not sure how to get there in a way that's internally consistent. =/
-
Don't you just hate it when you have a bunch of material that you want to work with, have written outlines for a number of scenes you really like, and yet you're missing that one important plot thread that allows them all to fit together logically? I know where I want to arrive, I'm just not sure how to get there in a way that's internally consistent. =/
Sounds like every story over a page I've writen ever. Writing the connecting lines between the punch scenes is always a pain. It's especially hard if those scenes aren't the beginning and end, so you need to create something to draw in the audience. And sometimes scenes get altered a lot from the connecting bits. You just have to roll with it.
My only suggestion is to sit and beat at them until something forms. Occasionally I'll skip to the part I can write and work from there, but I've burnt a lot of hours staring at the screen.
The only thing I hate more are the times when I have a scene, but don't know how to write it.
-
The only thing I hate more are the times when I have a scene, but don't know how to write it.
This is me all the time.
Also holy shitballs that avatar.
-
Also holy shitballs that avatar.
I only wish I'd found it for the contest, so I could have Marisa pouring out a bottle of 40 for Reimu.
-
My only suggestion is to sit and beat at them until something forms. Occasionally I'll skip to the part I can write and work from there, but I've burnt a lot of hours staring at the screen.
Oh, I've been fishing for a few days on this one, now. Other elements are becoming clearer, but this (and a couple others) still elude me.
In this case, the bit that I'm missing happens to be part of one of the most vital elements for the whole ongoing plot, believe it or not. It's kind of odd to know much of the how, and the why, but not the what.
-
Weird, in that Draco's problem is exactly how I do most of my writing.
I'd try to offer advice, but short of you sending me what you've got and letting me draft up the connecting plotlines, there's probably very little I'd be able to do. And then, it'd be a collab, and not your own story. Dunno how well that'd go over for you.
-
Honestly, I gotta ask. Am I the only one here who listens to music while writing for a fan fic? When I wrote the fight scene in Kirisame Shenanigans I was listening to stuff like Dance of Curse from Escaflowne. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaB8frCu47Y) Who else does this?
-
I listen to music while writing for SanaJana Adventure all the time, and if it's appropriate, I post it in the update. I've only done it once so far though, because whatever I'm listening to doesn't usually match what I'm writing. How about you?
-
I listen to music all the time while writing, I can't stand silence.
I usually choose music that fits the atmosphere of what I'm writing at the time.
Though, iirc, one of the chapters of Murder Mystery was written while listening to Black Rock Shooter on endless loop :V
-
I listen to music while writing for SanaJana Adventure all the time, and if it's appropriate, I post it in the update. I've only done it once so far though, because whatever I'm listening to doesn't usually match what I'm writing. How about you?
UN Owen was her? get's spammed to Makai and back on my end while I update Flandre quest. I took a rough count, over 50 remixss of UN Owen on Youtube, and only 3 or 5 are any good(such as sound sepher) imo. For Kirisame, I bounce between like 30 songs. From a characters theme, to Love Colored Master Spark to Maidens Cappricio ~ Dream Battle to Tales of Nights
-
I've tried to listen to music while writing in the past, but as with everything else, it proves too distracting. My driving instructor even told me I have no business listening to music while driving; my concentration is just too narrow, easy to break.
-
In opinion, the best way to write fiction is to write from another angle. You may think of something unexpected, unnatural, interesting or even horrid, mix it up with Gensokyo, and boom. Alternatively, you may want to read other fanfictions and try to think of something unconventional.
-
I first got into using FireFox because of its ability to have multiple tabs in one window. Now I can have YouTube up and listen to music constantly while I do anything online.
My cellphone sucks at everything but making phonecalls, and playing music. And it plays music more than I make phonecalls.
My secondary laptop is loaded to the brim with school notes, story notes, stupid-silly pictures, and all the collected music I've ever downloaded in the past four years since getting it. This laptop sits next to me in bed (I have a Queen size bed to myself) and plays music at a low volume while I go to sleep.
I also do my writing on that laptop to begin with. In short, everything I do is to music, and for various reasons, not the least of which is inspiration. I have a segment in EverWander planned out - for whenever/if ever I get back to it - that'll involve careful timing of the writing to make it match up with some music. I imagine it'll be a pain in the ass but if I can pull it off right it'll make the story that much better.
-
In opinion, the best way to write fiction is to write from another angle. You may think of something unexpected, unnatural, interesting or even horrid, mix it up with Gensokyo, and boom. Alternatively, you may want to read other fanfictions and try to think of something unconventional.
I did that. Anyways, I do it with every Fic I write.
-
Music while writing
I can write in total silence. But for action or emotional scenes I use music to help me write out the 'emotions' of the characters better. Depending on the track I use, the dialouge may come out completely different than what I originally planned.
In opinion, the best way to write fiction is to write from another angle. You may think of something unexpected, unnatural, interesting or even horrid, mix it up with Gensokyo, and boom. Alternatively, you may want to read other fanfictions and try to think of something unconventional.
I do this for both Writing and Drawing, at least when producing Touhou related fanworks. I look for what people never do and never think of and do it myself. I would atest this with my utter hatred of doing what everyone else does, or seeing the same thing done over and over with no change.
-
For me, whenever I think up a new fic, I think up of a badass creed. The entire story goes round to a character saying that.
Unconventional, and explains why mine are never regularly updated :3
-
Something that's been on my mind lately with regards to long fiction pieces (as a Writing Contest assignment has taken on a life of its own, and I'm now actually working a semi-serious fiction piece that's shaping up to go way beyond what I normally write) - I've come to the conclusion that it's best to write the entire thing beforehand, but post it a chapter at a time, with a couple days between chapters.
Bear with me here. Let me explain:
The problem with dumping an entire lengthy piece into a thread - or posting a link to it - is that, if we're totally honest with ourselves, most people are not going to read the whole thing. It's just not going to happen. I realize this is also the case with chapter-by-chapter pieces, too, but a giant wall of text is a lot more intimidating than easily digestible 1000-word morsels.
Secondly, there's the discussion. One giant piece, all at once, is pretty much going to result in comments like "Wow." and "GJ" and "This was really great, thanks for sharing this!". There's nothing wrong with any of these comments in themselves, of course, but it's not really a discussion of your story. No plot details or character developments are being discussed. Rather than a lively and engaging conversation between readers about your story, it's just flat praise that doesn't tell any other readers anything about your story.
When you piece out your very long story in easily-digestible chapters, though, you help ensure that your entire story will get read, eventually, one chapter at a time. Between chapters, if you allow a window of time for discussion, readers can comment, complain, speculate, criticize - they can engage, in other words, which will entice more readers to check out what they're missing here.
However, there's a danger in posting chapters as you write them. It's called real life. Even if you are certain that you're going to have the time to write and post each and every chapter in full and on schedule, you really cannot account for outside influences beyond your control interrupting your work. And even if you move to a cabin on top of a mountain with nothing but your laptop and a powerful connection to a satellite hook-up, you also cannot account for the dreaded writer's block, which can strike anyone at any time. By posting as you write, you run the risk of falling behind schedule, disappointing your readers, and weakening their trust in your ability to deliver.
Another danger of posting while you write is that the process of writing a story is never about going from A to Z. As you edit, you will go back, changing details, moving plot points forwards and backwards, removing previous dialogue that contradicts things said later on, or vice versa.
In the end, I think it's best to have the entire story written and polished beforehand, but to kindly serve it to your readers, one chapter at a time, allowing them some room to discuss the story thus far, without leaving them to wait to long before the next chapter arrives.
-
Keeping things short is what I planned for Gourmet's Road, being I usually write large chapters in whatever story I may have started. It's a change that I'm willing to experiment with to see if I should cut back on what I write and go for a simpler approach rather than writing walls every time I update.
Although keeping a constant schedule for updating is something difficult for me, being I operate on impulse. If I feel like writting I'll write, if not I don't. If I force myself it'll only succeed in coming out shitty and rushed. I should start doing it though, it helps to keep me focused on what I need to write and also keeps my wandering interest on the story I need to write (a huge flaw with me is that I go elsewhere and get into other shit which distracts me, if I can stop doing this I can get alot more done).
-
I've come to the conclusion that it's best to write the entire thing beforehand, but post it a chapter at a time, with a couple days between chapters.
That probably is the best way as far as overall quality goes. If your story is more a series of collected scenes you can get away with writing in chunks, but having long term editing potential is a good thing. Also with the story already finished you'll never have to worry about giving up in the middle of it.
On the other hand not all writers can pull off something like that. I know the long fic I'm writing right now would have just quietly died if I hadn't gotten reader input. I never really had enough interest to write the middle part of the story before now. I know the quality will suffer a little, but on the other hand it'll actually get done.
-
Yes, keep in mind I'm speaking for myself here. Just wondering what y'all think.
-
That's what I'm doing with my Kaleidoscope Origins story. I've got the damn thing up to nearly 70 pages already, and aside from what I posted in the WWC thread, none of it is up yet.
Maybe I should start posting it - 70 pages is long enough to buffer out the remaining time till I get it finished...
-
I'm noticing something like that "lengthiness effect" from Helepolis's "Smooth Gentlemen" fic. The chapters themselves are of reasonable length, but he's updating so often I feel like I barely have enough time to react to one chapter before he's already banged out the next one. It's still good, but I feel vaguely overwhelmed.
-
Yes, keep in mind I'm speaking for myself here. Just wondering what y'all think.
Yeah, I get what you mean. Right now I feel like i'm in a pinch, because the stuff that i've come up with for later chapters don't really mesh up perfectly with the first chapter of TnT. I could retcon it, but that's not an ideal solution. :/
-
I mostly agree with your points, Ammy, but it overlooks one of the major motivating factors for a lot of writers, feedback.
One of the most inspiring things are responses and discussion. It does a lot to help force one out of a rut. Banging the whole thing out beforehand, without a bit of indication there would be any interest, means it's pretty likely you'd have a hard time pulling yourself out of a rut. I find others encouragement keeps me knowing that there is actual interest in what I write, so I don't feel I'm wasting my time when I hit a hard patch.
Mind you, this doesn't deny any of your points about blocks and realify getting in the way.
-
Yeah, comments show that people are interested really do help while in a rut, which I have hit hard btw. What are some good ways you guys know of or use to help shake free of a rut or a writing block, a point when you can't come up with anything decent?
-
Yeah, comments show that people are interested really do help while in a rut, which I have hit hard btw. What are some good ways you guys know of or use to help shake free of a rut or a writing block, a point when you can't come up with anything decent?
1 - Keep banging at the problem until something shakes loose. It's my most common method, and it usually works over the long term, but it's still painful.
2 - Write something else quick. Sometimes writing a short story will clear my mind. On the other hand it can also get you distracted fast, so this only works if you're dedicated to the work you want to continue. Also don't worry too much about the quality of your quick work. Sometimes it's better just to write.
3 - Time. Just put it away and make a note to come back to it. Write it on next months calender page or something. After a bit of time sometimes ideas will just flow better. Once again you'll need to do something to keep you writing.
4 - Don't get stuck. This seems like stupid advice, but it's my biggest problem. If you have the idea WRITE IT NOW. It doesn't matter about time, or if you haven't finished the middle yet, write that part down. You can edit it later.
Now if I could only practice what I preach better....
-
1 - Keep banging at the problem until something shakes loose. It's my most common method, and it usually works over the long term, but it's still painful.
2 - Write something else quick. Sometimes writing a short story will clear my mind. On the other hand it can also get you distracted fast, so this only works if you're dedicated to the work you want to continue. Also don't worry too much about the quality of your quick work. Sometimes it's better just to write.
3 - Time. Just put it away and make a note to come back to it. Write it on next months calender page or something. After a bit of time sometimes ideas will just flow better. Once again you'll need to do something to keep you writing.
4 - Don't get stuck. This seems like stupid advice, but it's my biggest problem. If you have the idea WRITE IT NOW. It doesn't matter about time, or if you haven't finished the middle yet, write that part down. You can edit it later.
Now if I could only practice what I preach better....
1. Very Painful, and my best idea's recently all involve someone being killed... I'm not aiming for that direction though :V
2. Good idea... Disgaea + Touhou anyone :V
3. I'm a gamer, on summer vacation, who sleeps in till noon. Time is the one thing I can't keep track of, setting a decent chunk of 30 min+ seems crazy to me, but still a good idea.
4. I'm trying to not get stuck ;-; I got a few random ideas, but one is already in use somewhat X_X
Thanks, I'm glad to have some advice to see me through, I don't want my fic AND quest to die on me cause of this.
-
I try not to worry about it if people don't comment. Though *try* is the functional word. Sometimes the silence is deafening. :ohdear: I know you can't expect everyone that reads to comment on it every time, but I still feel like a kid on Christmas that keeps checking under the tree or in the stocking for a present I may have missed. :x
-
I try not to worry about it if people don't comment. Though *try* is the functional word. Sometimes the silence is deafening. :ohdear: I know you can't expect everyone that reads to comment on it every time, but I still feel like a kid on Christmas that keeps checking under the tree or in the stocking for a present I may have missed. :x
Yeah this. All the worse because I tend to write during the dead time of day.
-
Feedback? I wouldn't mind some of that. For Mystic Mutation, I've gotten to the point where I just don't really care anymore. I beat myself in the face with my keyboard to come out with a chapter that I know will revive the dying story, and...I don't get shit to show for it. Feels like I did everything for nothing, y'know?
-
Feedback? I wouldn't mind some of that. For Mystic Mutation, I've gotten to the point where I just don't really care anymore. I beat myself in the face with my keyboard to come out with a chapter that I know will revive the dying story, and...I don't get shit to show for it. Feels like I did everything for nothing, y'know?
A thousand times this. (And people wonder why I never feel motivated to update my fanfics ...)
-
I'm not sure if this is an answer, an idea or even true for anyone but me, however I find that the ease of commenting and communication increases how much feedback I both give and receive. For the VN I'm on chat discussing chapters, and the feedback there is usually far more in depth then anything I've given or received on a forum. And there's the added bonus of being able to ask about specific parts you worry about. On the other hand I have no idea how this would help a forum.
-
As a writer, feedback is something so luxury I could never have. Most of the comments outside were
I didn't want to disturb the flow.
With that reason, they didn't comment on my fic, but rather talk about it somewhere else (yahoo messenger, Hamachi,...) But still, it's quite sad to see the whole topic with just your walls of text.
-
Sadly, readers severely underestimate the power of their feedback; there is perhaps no better way to inspire the author you're following to continue than by commenting. Even half-assed generic comments are superior to nothing at all.
-
I must add, a good comment may even change the storyline when it's stuck.
So people, please comment more often :(
Also right back at myself XD
-
These past few posts are essentially saying everything we all discussed in this wonderful thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6536.0) here.
The influx of new users who've been commenting on the stories can only be a good thing; I don't remember all their names offhand, but they're new blood, and that's something PSL could desperately use.
-
This is just an unrelated observation on my part, don't mind me.
Reading about all the strikes going on in Europe, I stumbled across a reference to Bertolt Brecht. I couldn't place the name, until I remembered that Brecht was the guy my friend JJ, one of my best friends in high school, used to tell me about all the time. She was an IB student, and a theatre geek, so she wrote her Extended Essay on Brecht, and would often tell me about how interesting his Verfremdungseffekt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distancing_effect) technique was. And being in the writing mindset I am right now, I wish to seek some way to do this kind of thing in my fics-- maybe a short story. That would be really neat.
-
ATTENTION: TO ALL CURRENTLY EMPLOYED LIBRARIANS.
YOU MAY NOTICE A SLIGHT CHANGE IN YOUR UNIFORM. THIS IS DUE TO THE POWERS ABOVE MAKING A HORRIBLE MISTAKE ALLOWING ONE AMONG YOU TO DETERMINE THE NEW LIBRARIAN DRESS CODE. ALL OTHER DUTIES ARE AS NORMAL. CONTINUE.
-
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1852/patchugj.jpg)
-
So while I was browsing Spacebattle.com I found this fic:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=170551
It's really interesting and could be good if done right, what do you guys think?
Also, is this topic appropriate for this thread? cause this is for fanfics and all.....
<Sakana> Moved this to Koakuma's for general discussion
-
So while I was browsing Spacebattle.com I found this fic:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=170551
It's really interesting and could be good if done right, what do you guys think?
Whoa, shanejayell posts there? :o He's one of my favourite yuri authors!
A crossover, you mean? Sure, I guess it could be done well. Granted, I haven't read a good crossover in ages (and if I have, it has slipped my mind), but I guess it could happen.
-
Some things blend easier then others. Negima's cast herd goes well with Touhou. But then you have to be able to write for a cast herd. Not an easy thing. The Yue/Patchouli bit add a bit of fun of course.
Of course it's also a substitution crossover fic, which is always a little dangerous because eventually one of the series is going to have to bend to work for the other. Eventually either your characters are going to act OoC, or your plot's going to change. Actual universe mixing avoids that, but then you end up with powerlevels and a bigger cast herd. There end up being a lot more points of failure.
Not that it can't be fun. I've seen a couple of good starts. They've all just died halfway through so I can't recommend them.
-
Changing the subject...
Along this week, since last week's Saturday, I got mimself into an Inspirational Spree. Suddenly, I've got an almost unlimited amount of inspiration and artistic sensibility. Because of this, I've devoted mimself in writing my Fics and drawing. My thoughts travelled through my mind at lightspeed, and every idea that I came up with flowed nicely.
However, today all this inspiration simply disappeared in mid-air! I was writing the Baby Boom when, suddenly, I couldn't come out with any idea to keep on writing it! I have ran out of inspiration so hard that I can't even draw or write a single line! Seriously, this is getting me awfully frustrated.
Is it they call "Writer's Block"? How can I manage to get inspirated again?
-
I cure writer's block by writing. It doesn't matter what, it doesn't matter if it's garbage. The act of writing creates ideas for me.
Barring that, going for a long walk and talking to myself about story ideas.
-
I would like some feedback on this.
Well a while back, I was listening to some music, it happen to be an extra medley of some extra bosses themes. I don't know where this idea came from, but bear with me even though it's sort of strange.
A long time in the future, about 579 years. A lot of things have changed. But notably, way down in the Hell of Blazing Fires, Utsuho begins to question about the voice she had heard during the events of Subterranean Animism. Maybe she was supposed to rule a different world, maybe the outside world. She decides to pursue taking over the outside world. She easily convinces Koishi and tries to convince others.
And they would all have to go through a lot over government systems to do it, so it would get sort of complex, like "Death Note" for those of you who've heard of it.
It's been bugging me to get the idea out though, even if I don't do it the idea is there for someone else so feedback.
<Nobu> Moved this to general discussion thread. Kimashi FYI, we like to keep fanfiction discussion in the like to this thread, and save new topics for the fiction itself.
-
Whoa, that's an indigenous idea!
I like ideas that are daring to do something new and unexpected.
-
Alright so, I have the prologue and chapter 1 of my story ready, the problem is. I'm wondering about some things.
So the prologue has absolutely nothing to do with gensokyo, or even touhou(Though the rest of the story takes place in Gensokyo), is that a good way to start off?
Second, I was thinking of dividing my story in not only chapters, but days as well,since the days are important in the first part of the story.What do you guys think?
And thirdly, I need help on something, I've got 2 >>>GUYS<<< trapped in the Hakurei Border, trying to reach Gensokyo, they are basically walking inside the boundary trying to find an opening, these two have a major impact of the story, and it would be boring to only say that they are walking around. I need help, any suggestions on how to make this part of the story interesting?
Thanks in advance.
-
Alright so, I have the prologue and chapter 1 of my story ready, the problem is. I'm wondering about some things.
Gotta start somewhere.
So the prologue has absolutely nothing to do with gensokyo, or even touhou(Though the rest of the story takes place in Gensokyo), is that a good way to start off?
Like I said, gotta start somewhere. Is it related to the story, though? If not, then you can probably do without it. I'm hoping it does, though, if you're using it as the prologue.
Second, I was thinking of dividing my story in not only chapters, but days as well,since the days are important in the first part of the story.What do you guys think?
This is very doable. 'Days' can just be your word for 'chapters'. Unless each chapter deals with a minor arc, unique from each other, I don't think it's really all that necessary for you to divide the chapters into days, unless you just really feel like it. Whichever way you pick, though, make sure you stick with it; if a day has chapters or a chapter has days. Don't try to change chapters in the middle of a day unless the plot calls for it (i.e. major developments)
And thirdly, I need help on something, I've got 2 >>>GUYS<<< trapped in the Hakurei Border, trying to reach Gensokyo, they are basically walking inside the boundary trying to find an opening, these two have a major impact of the story, and it would be boring to only say that they are walking around. I need help, any suggestions on how to make this part of the story interesting?
You say that like having guys in Touhou is a new thing. No one assumes that Gensokyo is entirely populated by just women and loli-youkai.
Anyways, I like the concept here - that the barrier isn't just a paper-thin field of spiritual energy that separates the mundane world from Gensokyo. If you want to, perhaps you can give some insight on how out-of-touch with standard reality the barrier-space is, some thoughts from your guys about how confused they are with just looking at their surroundings. Finding a way to invoke a sense of desolation and lost/hopelessness would be a good thing for this, if they're essentially stuck between the worlds. Where's their guarantee that they're going to make it through to Gensokyo, or failing that, back to the real world? Oooh, scary scary.
-
Ok, I'm having a slow bit in my story(but not a block), and this is a bit I felt I should ask about. My character, Shinku, has incredible potential, and her power can become anything with the proper teacher, I am now trying to pick which of the roughly 100 Notable's to use for this. The problem should now be rather obvious :V Anyone have any suggestions or ideas for this?
-
Ok, I'm having a slow bit in my story(but not a block), and this is a bit I felt I should ask about. My character, Shinku, has incredible potential, and her power can become anything with the proper teacher, I am now trying to pick which of the roughly 100 Notable's to use for this. The problem should now be rather obvious :V Anyone have any suggestions or ideas for this?
Pick something simple and easy, and apply it in unorthodox and outlandish fashions.
To use an example I'm familiar with - in Everlasting Wanderers, Sara uses the psychic feedback she deals with constantly due to being a telepath as a way to force Acied's mind to basically do a cold-restart, to daze and disorient him. Because she was near Patchouli Knowledge, a fount of intellect and magic power with a very overpowering psychic imprint, she essentially took her ability to link up with another persons mind and used it semi-offensively by dumping what she was acclimated to into someone else's mind - someone who wasn't used to that kind of white noise.
Later, she dives into Acied's mind again (in a temper tantrum) and turns off his sight receptors for a second, causing his eyes to black out, temporarily blinding him.
To take this line and run with it, let's say you use the ability to manipulate sound. Simple enough - you can talk without opening your mouth, or you can make your voice carry really far, or you can warp peoples words on their way from their mouths to their audience's ears, or you can amplify it to the point of destructiveness, or you can mute someone.
Hang on, wait - destructive sound? Sure, we've all heard a five-year-old let out the most ear-piercing scream, but little do most people know, sound waves can be focused to the point of causing concrete to disintegrate. Imagine being able to make someone's head pop just by laughing maniacally a keylock dissolve into dust by whistling at it.
-
Like I said, gotta start somewhere. Is it related to the story, though? If not, then you can probably do without it. I'm hoping it does, though, if you're using it as the prologue.
Well, yeah, the story is more centered in my character's (one in particular) than in actual touhou, while touhou takes a special part in his story, I still need to hint at the facts that happened before this,(NOTE: The "touhou part" in this character's story, is, very late, to say the least, kinda like end-game-ish) so, I was thinking that hinting that to build up hype and make the readers get curious would work, though I'm not so sure...
This is very doable. 'Days' can just be your word for 'chapters'. Unless each chapter deals with a minor arc, unique from each other, I don't think it's really all that necessary for you to divide the chapters into days, unless you just really feel like it. Whichever way you pick, though, make sure you stick with it; if a day has chapters or a chapter has days. Don't try to change chapters in the middle of a day unless the plot calls for it (i.e. major developments)
Well, I was thinking of something like, every day has one/multiple chapters, though not every chapter is a day. (Like, day 1 is chapter 1, while day 2 is chapters 2 and 3), I had this idea because, like I said, Days have a major part in the first part of the plot.
You say that like having guys in Touhou is a new thing. No one assumes that Gensokyo is entirely populated by just women and loli-youkai.
Anyways, I like the concept here - that the barrier isn't just a paper-thin field of spiritual energy that separates the mundane world from Gensokyo. If you want to, perhaps you can give some insight on how out-of-touch with standard reality the barrier-space is, some thoughts from your guys about how confused they are with just looking at their surroundings. Finding a way to invoke a sense of desolation and lost/hopelessness would be a good thing for this, if they're essentially stuck between the worlds. Where's their guarantee that they're going to make it through to Gensokyo, or failing that, back to the real world? Oooh, scary scary.
Well, I said it like that because only girls appear in the actual games, so I thought that maybe some people would have negative feedback regarding that, yeah, I thought that the whole "inside the border" was quite unique too, oh god, the things that my mind can work out when I'm bored to death :3
The whole "out of touch" thing I can really make it out, and I will also hint (and later on say it out) about one of these "out of reality" things is, , and the whole sense of "desolation" and "hopelessness" is going to be... Kinda hard, because I feel that these two guys and kinda Gary Stue-ish (Though some of my friends don't agree with me.) however the whole thought about "are we really going to make it?" can be rather easy to do, depends on how my mind works at the time.
Sadly, I'm going to have to work my brain out crating a "rule" to making this work, though I've already thought about a story that can easily make around 6 games, with a gigantic number of spin-offs, nothing I can't do :3
-
Confidence in your abilities; very good.
If you'll allow me to toot my own horn (toot toot), lemme recommend to you my own 'OC' story.
Behold, Everlasting Wanderers (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,2569.0.html).
Peruse it to take some more direct clues and hintings from me - the best way I can explain is by simply showing you an example.
Also it gets more people to read my story :3
-
Sorry if this counts as Necromancy, and sorry if this isn't the place to ask., but, I've had an idea for a fan fiction thing in my head for a while now, and I was wondering if there's any one willing to help me shape this idea some, kind of need some one to bounce ideas off of and whatnot. Any help is fine, though I'd sort of like some one experienced with working with Original Characters. Thanks in advance.
-
Hmmmm I could help. Although I've never actually made a complete fanfic, I've been a Touhou fan for a good maybe five years so I know the characters very well.
-
Any help is fine, though I'd sort of like some one experienced with working with Original Characters. Thanks in advance.
Confidence in your abilities; very good.
If you'll allow me to toot my own horn (toot toot), lemme recommend to you my own 'OC' story.
Behold, Everlasting Wanderers (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,2569.0.html).
Peruse it to take some more direct clues and hintings from me - the best way I can explain is by simply showing you an example.
Also it gets more people to read my story :3
Lemme know if you have any questions.
-
note to self: before trying to describe an alcoholic drink, sample said drink first
addendum: ask brother to bring home sake
-
Good sake is dry and smooth. When served warm, it send this lovely warm wine-ish vapor up into your nose.
-
Good sake is dry and smooth. When served warm, it send this lovely warm wine-ish vapor up into your nose.
Good sake is dry and smooth.
Good sake
Dammit
-
Is there any way to write a main character, female OC for the whole "Dumped into Gensokyo" genre, without making her a Mary-Sue? While still making her have a traumatizing past?
I've been toying with the idea for a while. The main idea is to create a character with real flaws, like "Cannot form freindly relationships with people due to previous trauma" or "Stepford smile type A&B", and dump them from traumatizing enviroment into Gensokyo, where character development takes place.
Generally, I don't even like OCs, but Touhou is special.
-
Is there any way to write a main character, female OC for the whole "Dumped into Gensokyo" genre, without making her a Mary-Sue? While still making her have a traumatizing past?
Yes. Don't be a terrible writer.
It's not hard not to write a mary-sue. People just don't realize it, because of how perverted the concept of OCs have been by self-inserts and the like.
-
You can be the best writer in the world, but if reality itself bends around to put your OC at the forefront of everything and everyone's minds, then she'll still be a Mary Sue. Just make sure to remember that the natives of Gensokyo shouldn't care too much about your OC without having good reason to do so, and you're already ahead of the game. Writing an angst-filled character is fine as long as the other characters react to that angst reasonably.
-
As a writer who's played with Touhou OCs before - one of whom I'm about to bring back out of the closet - I can offer some advice here.
- As has been mentioned, do not make what I'll call a Solar Sue - a character who everything revolves solely around. While creating a new character and having a story involving their daily routine or a particular event that involves them is fine, making this so important that other characters simply serve to give your character a reason to talk isn't. There's a difference between being the main character and being the only character.
- Do not make your character flawless. This is not to say that your character should be angsty, because contrary to popular belief angst is very good at annoying some readers. They don't read to be nagged to, they read to be entertained.
The character should have a difficulty of some sort, which is preferrably not the sole reason the plot is taking place (or else you risk stepping into the aforemented Solar Sue). This difficulty gives the character a chance to fail - which is important, because unless there's a possibility of failure people won't be curious as to whether the character will succeed - and also allows them to grow as the story goes on, producing character development.
- On the other end of the scale, don't make your character pathetic in every single manner. While humbling, this also makes your character thoroughly dull if they fail at everything they try and whine about something every five seconds.
- In terms of writing Touhou, the concept of a human OC is extremely difficult to pull off because unless you create a Solar Sue as mentioned above, the girls of Gensokyo generally won't have much reason to have an interest in your character. The typical solution people find for this problem is to make their human character special somehow, which leads to the overpowered Mary Sue situation everyone knows about more often than not. Unless you, say, surround her with other human OCs who are on a similar wavelength, she's unlikely to have anyone who has much interest in her.
So in short, writing a human OC into the Touhou universe is pretty difficult, because you risk either not giving her enough traits to be interesting or overstepping it and making her too powerful to be believable. It's a fine line, and one I haven't had the nerve of walking properly myself. My only endeavour so far has been a youkai who in terms of usefullness is about as helpful as Aquaman, so.
Best of luck, and I'm sorry I don't have any more helpful advice.
-
You can be the best writer in the world, but if reality itself bends around to put your OC at the forefront of everything and everyone's minds, then she'll still be a Mary Sue. Just make sure to remember that the natives of Gensokyo shouldn't care too much about your OC without having good reason to do so, and you're already ahead of the game. Writing an angst-filled character is fine as long as the other characters react to that angst reasonably.
That's a very good point. Frankly, that's one of the things I'm trying to avoid- The dreaded Black Hole Sue.
As a writer who's played with Touhou OCs before - one of whom I'm about to bring back out of the closet - I can offer some advice here.
- As has been mentioned, do not make what I'll call a Solar Sue - a character who everything revolves solely around. While creating a new character and having a story involving their daily routine or a particular event that involves them is fine, making this so important that other characters simply serve to give your character a reason to talk isn't. There's a difference between being the main character and being the only character.
- Do not make your character flawless. This is not to say that your character should be angsty, because contrary to popular belief angst is very good at annoying some readers. They don't read to be nagged to, they read to be entertained.
The character should have a difficulty of some sort, which is preferrably not the sole reason the plot is taking place (or else you risk stepping into the aforemented Solar Sue). This difficulty gives the character a chance to fail - which is important, because unless there's a possibility of failure people won't be curious as to whether the character will succeed - and also allows them to grow as the story goes on, producing character development.
- On the other end of the scale, don't make your character pathetic in every single manner. While humbling, this also makes your character thoroughly dull if they fail at everything they try and whine about something every five seconds.
- In terms of writing Touhou, the concept of a human OC is extremely difficult to pull off because unless you create a Solar Sue as mentioned above, the girls of Gensokyo generally won't have much reason to have an interest in your character. The typical solution people find for this problem is to make their human character special somehow, which leads to the overpowered Mary Sue situation everyone knows about more often than not. Unless you, say, surround her with other human OCs who are on a similar wavelength, she's unlikely to have anyone who has much interest in her.
So in short, writing a human OC into the Touhou universe is pretty difficult, because you risk either not giving her enough traits to be interesting or overstepping it and making her too powerful to be believable. It's a fine line, and one I haven't had the nerve of walking properly myself. My only endeavour so far has been a youkai who in terms of usefullness is about as helpful as Aquaman, so.
Best of luck, and I'm sorry I don't have any more helpful advice.
Hmm, I'm not very interested in making a character that angsts all the time, because how many people do that in real life? It's more a case where her abuse shows in her behaviour and attitude towards others, instead of going "exposition angst" all the time. It's not so much angst as it is trauma after prior abuse, and it's all supposed to be very implied, and nothing about her past is revealed until further on.
Oh, and most youkai want to eat her rather than talk. I'm not planning to give her any extreme traits, just make her a broken little kid with issues and try to have her sort them in a realistic(or as realistic as you can get in Gensokyo) way.
Good points, though. I'll remember them, and try anyhow.
-
Is there any way to write a main character, female OC for the whole "Dumped into Gensokyo" genre, without making her a Mary-Sue? While still making her have a traumatizing past?
I've been toying with the idea for a while. The main idea is to create a character with real flaws, like "Cannot form freindly relationships with people due to previous trauma" or "Stepford smile type A&B", and dump them from traumatizing enviroment into Gensokyo, where character development takes place.
Generally, I don't even like OCs, but Touhou is special.
While we're grading and debating this sort of thing, could I get a little feedback on my self-insert OC (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6598.0.html) MotK origin story? I'm not just trying to say 'this is how Esifex came to be in MotK, nurhur', I'm also shooting for a worthwhile and well-written story. I'm trying to avoid being the Black Hole, but considering the sort of things that're going on in the story, do you all think the direction its going is good? Not like, plot-wise, but actually literary quality-wise? I have still been working on it and adding to it, despite the lack of a recent update, but I'm also getting a bit nervous about it and am craving feedback. It's like a drug to me :v
-
Interesting advice, Roukanken, I'll have to remember those things, and, the biggest concern with this OC is making it so she isn't to much of a Mary Sue, I've fixed some things, but there's probably a few things that are still questionable. Should probably get to reading a few OC Fics, learn a thing or two, or something.
-
Hm... Suggestions for OCs... Normally I use OCs to fill in side characters.
Well there's hunting through TV tropes and finding out what not to do. They've got quite the section on Mary Sues. As for more specific OC flaws...
Firstly always make sure your OC fits in the universe. It's far too easy to get caught up in your characters plot, and not use the rest of the cast as anything except pieces in that plot. You have to make sure the original Touhou characters rate more then backdrop pieces (unless you're doing something on a totally different level).
Secondly have a good grasp on any character you write. If you write a bad Alice and place your character in the same set, it's going to make your character look like a Mary Sue or bad character even if that wasn't your intent.
Thirdly, try try try your best to never have your OC be the last best hope for X. Gensoukyo is filled with people that make Superman cry. If you are going to have your OC incident solving have a damn good reason why no one else is doing it. And never ever ever have your OC "fix" canon. That always sits poorly.
-
Those are all basic guidelines, tips and hints I'm well aware of. What I was actually asking was for someone to let me know how well I was adhering to them.
-
Ah sorry. That was just in general to the thread. As for your not self OC I think you're doing well. The only story quirk on full review is something that's unconnected and might be resolved later.
Setting your character up as the villain, though a sentimental one, is something that usually bypasses a lot of the OC incidents. So long as you write the story passibly well in the first place.
-
For the last few
weeks months, I've been wondering what would happen if I somehow ended up in Gensokyo: who I would like to meet, what I would do, who I would miss from home, anything that would set me aside from a normal villager, ect. If I wrote a fanfiction of what would happen, I probably wouldn't post it though, as much of my past I'd like to keep a secret (I have an unusual past). I didn't expect there to be so much to be considered for this type of writing.......
While we're grading and debating this sort of thing, could I get a little feedback on my self-insert OC (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6598.0.html) MotK origin story? I'm not just trying to say 'this is how Esifex came to be in MotK, nurhur', I'm also shooting for a worthwhile and well-written story. I'm trying to avoid being the Black Hole, but considering the sort of things that're going on in the story, do you all think the direction its going is good? Not like, plot-wise, but actually literary quality-wise? I have still been working on it and adding to it, despite the lack of a recent update, but I'm also getting a bit nervous about it and am craving feedback. It's like a drug to me :v
I really have been enjoying it so far, but I have a serious lack of comment posting courage. The literary quality is really good (or perhaps I might like it to much to find any flaws :3).
-
So I was at Barnes & Noble today waiting for my sister to get out of freshman orientation and I came across the writing/publishing section and found a book called 'the 10 rules of novel writing'. It was all pretty interesting, but there were a couple that made me curios. 'Never use any verb other than 'said' to describe someone talking' and 'never use an adverb to describe someone's talking' (paraphrased, of course). When I thought about it, using verbs other than said does feel kind of silly sometimes, but using the 'said' anytime anyone talks also seems kind of awkward to me. So I was wondering, what do you all do when it comes to characters saying things and what are your reasons for it? Said only? Verbs to fit the circumstance? Omit them completely? I crave to know! O.O
-
It depends.
I'll use said on occasion, or I'll do some other verb if it fits, like shouted, hacked, mumbled, croaked, etc. I'll usually avoid using anything at all if the speaker is implied, however, since it gets annoying to have to read adverbs after each line of dialogue over and over again on a long conversation.
Really, I have to say that that's a horrible rule. It goes for the single most uninteresting and blandest word possible and says ONLY USE THIS NEVER USE ANYTHING ELSE. Makes me wonder how bad the other rules were.
-
Ah yes. The said only bit. It's passable advice but with all advice you can overdo it. My current stance is never replace "said" with more then a single word. But I think a variety of language is better then repetition (unless your deliberately trying to repeat yourself.) The best trick is to use action movement and thought to avoid having to use said all together.
Also, remember a lot of "writing books" are designed with literature in mind. I learned a couple tricks from one, but I had to hold my nose through the five page self righteous speil where he claimed film wasn't real art and compared science fiction writing to pornography.
-
Makes me wonder how bad the other rules were.
They weren't horrible per se, though I didn't agree with a few of them, mainly the first one: 'never read anything that begins with weather'. But a lot of it was 'never do this unless you're [insert famous author here]' so it did have a bit of a pretentious vibe to it. I was curious about those two specific pieces of advice, though.
-
The way I see it, you should read authors whose writing styles you like, then adapt their styles into something you can enjoy and write comfortably. If you don't enjoy writing like Hemingway (why in God's name you would is beyond me), then don't write like him. If you enjoy writing like Lovecraft, then write like him.
I've never read a book on writing in my life, but people tend to like my work. I guess it partially depends on the writer as well.
-
I've leafed through a few writing books in my time. They give... well ,generally good advice, but a lot of it seems geared to people who are just starting out. The best writing advice I've ever heard personally is to write for yourself and to write from the heart. It's important to discover who you are as a writer for yourself, rather than finding it through the words of others.
-
I once got to take part in a Touhou fanwriter's conversation on IRC between UsuallyDead, Hungry Youkai, Trilkk, and a coupla o' others. UD heard that I had never touched a writing book in my life (not so anymore, but true back then), so he started talking to me about writing books that he had read in the past, and all the advice they'd given him. Hungry Youkai came in and pointed out that he'd never read any of those books either. UD an' HY had totally different approaches to their art, but it still worked out for the both of 'em in their own way.
I don't put much stock in writin' books meself, except for two in particular that were assigned to me in Creative Writing class in college: A Writer's Book of Days and Writing Down the Bones, both of which were meant to stimulate creativity rather than set guidelines for your writing (though the former did have lists of writing prompts and ideas for every day). Both of 'em were very good, I should hope-- White Rose began in that class, after all.
-
Where do I post my ideas for a fanfic?
It's not going to get written soon, but I just want to put it down first for comments.
-
Where do I post my ideas for a fanfic?
It's not going to get written soon, but I just want to put it down first for comments.
If they're just ideas for a fanfic, right here in this very thread should suffice, if it pleases ye.
-
Being a student, I've always enjoyed Literature/Writing classes, and enjoy signing up for them (I'm a total bibliophile :V). Most of the lessons I learned were about narrative writing, as it is easier to write about personal experiences than to make something completely up. One of the things reinforced by my teachers early on is that "said" should be use rarely, if at all. Books that enforce that type of writing seem to be quite silly (at least for me), as that type of writing would be undeniably dull, even for expository writing.
-
If they're just ideas for a fanfic, right here in this very thread should suffice, if it pleases ye.
*breathes in*
Today is a peaceful day at the Hakurei Shrine, peaceful within the Hakurei Shrine only.
She does not seem to notice it, because the skies are still blue, still clear of aliens, and the Hakurei Shrine is still empty, inside and outside, devoid of youkai desperately begging for the miko to solve their problems.
She does not seem to notice the huge amount of metal being transported around the youkai mountain.
She does not seem to notice the huge amount of bullets being transported throughout Gensokyo.
She does not seem to notice the huge amount weapons called "aircraft" flying around Gensokyo.
She does not seem to notice that the spellcard system is not in use.
She does not realize that the coup d'?tat has taken place.
And that's the introduction.
Oh yeah, this is a crossover fanfic, so feel free to ask questions and point out my grammatical mistakes.
I think I messed up bad...
-
And that's the introduction.
Oh yeah, this is a crossover fanfic, so feel free to ask questions and point out my grammatical mistakes.
I think I messed up bad...
This is the Touhou/1942 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRKis5QAC4&feature=related) crossover, isn't it? :O!
-
This is the Touhou/1942 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRKis5QAC4&feature=related) crossover, isn't it? :O!
Actually it's not. I couldn't find a single term to cover Kamui, R-9, P-38 Lightning (1942), Hibachi(Dodonpachi), so I just used the word "airplanes".
I always have this problem of making far too ambitious projects that I'll never be able to finish.
How am I supposed to keep everyone's personality different anyway?
-
Sudden question: how do you writey-lot motivate yourself to actually write? Motivation is my biggest problem so I intend to
thoroughly rip you all off try the techniques you guys use(unless you're those enviable types who can do it whenever with no thought).
-
There is a bottle here of rose water extract. I keep it near my desk for those times I need "motivation".
This stuff is better than crack and ten times more legal :]
Naw, seriously, I just go and write. Whenever I'm not suffering from writer's block, at least. It just comes naturally. On the rare occasions that I have had to write when I just didn't feel like it, I reminded myself that it was never going to get any easier and did it anyway.
But I'm also a lot more self-motivated than a lot of people I know, so my method might not work for you. In which case, I really do recommend the rose water. Or strawberries, which are also better than crack, and not only much more legal, they're also cheaper! :derp:
-
Let's see, currently I'm using shame. In that my readers will be disappointed if I don't get something out. This is a fickle mistress though, so use it sparingly.
If I have a story I really want to write I find it really hard to not write it. Of course that's kind of hit or miss as well, but I've never been let down by following that impulse.
Lastly once you've built up momentum writing you tend to keep writing. I've actually been doing other things, so I lost a lot of momentum, and I'm noticing the difference. Hopefully this week will help get me back in gear.
-
There is a bottle here of rose water extract. I keep it near my desk for those times I need "motivation".
This stuff is better than crack and ten times more legal :]
I am totally gonna get me some of this. :V
Let's see, currently I'm using shame. In that my readers will be disappointed if I don't get something out. This is a fickle mistress though, so use it sparingly.
If I have a story I really want to write I find it really hard to not write it. Of course that's kind of hit or miss as well, but I've never been let down by following that impulse.
Lastly once you've built up momentum writing you tend to keep writing. I've actually been doing other things, so I lost a lot of momentum, and I'm noticing the difference. Hopefully this week will help get me back in gear.
Shame seems motivating, but I have no fans to disappoint(that I know about). I'm jealous~
And yeah, momentum is great. Once I get started I'm like YEAH LET'S DO THIS even if it takes days for me to actually finish. But opening that document is like derp derp derp.
-
Motivation for me is hard to get as well, because let's face it, I'm a lazy fuck. It's just something I get now and then at random, although sometimes after beating myself senseless and get off my ass and write.
Then there's this, which seems to be working fine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dOsoMvq0-k)
-
I make myself sit down and type. That's really it. Waiting for inspiration won't help, as a big part of writing is outlining, maybe researching, and looooots of editing. You just have to compel yourself to keep typing. Don't worry if you're typing crap; you can polish and edit it later.
-
Don't worry if you're typing crap; you can polish and edit it later.
And I myself tend to skip this phase entirely :derp:
-
And I myself tend to skip this phase entirely :derp:
Me too!
Thank you for your input, everyone. I feel motivated already(for the next ten minutes or so). :V
-
The said rule is a very good and important rule, and you should follow it.
The reason why it exists is because you want to have the emphasis be in your dialogue and not in your narration. You shouldn't have to do more than denote speaking, and who is doing it. The dialogue itself should express what you're trying to get across. 95% of the time, you want said to denote that <Character X> is making a statement of some kind. Exceptions are when said just literally would not fit (shouting and whispering). Playing the synonym game just detracts attention from your dialogue to the synonym you're using. If you can avoid using said altogether, though, do this as well. It's even better for having good strong writing.
As for "said <adverb>", you shouldn't have to do this. Your dialogue should be able to express that emotion itself. Don't tell people that she said sadly, what what she said sound sad! Make your text as lively as you can! The only time descriptors ought to be needed is when what someone is saying is truly at odds with what they mean, and even then, there's better ways to do it. Have actions and body language express it instead.
Also, if you want a book about writing, read 200 Ways Not to Write a Novel. It shows why those things are bad very nicely. And is also hella funny.
-
Here's a completely-made-up-on-the-spot example:
He grinned through clenched teeth. "No, actually, I'm doing perfectly fine," he said.
-
That doesn't even need said on it, in my opinion, it's pretty clear the clenched teeth guy is speaking.
-
I wrote an entire chapter (The Alice chapter) at work, when I got home and actually typed it out, it turned into something completely differently, but something I liked a lot better then what I had down. Sometimes stuff like that just needs to happen.
-
Yes! I write at work with pencil and spiral notebook. Helps me think things through to not be able to write as fast as I can think.
-
I usually don't write story chapters when I'm away from my comp. When this is the case, I write up outlines and notes of what I want to do with the story and what characters I want to appear and what their like, shit like that. I have like...a shit ton of "databases" on different stories and characters tucked away in a huge folders, packets and even bags (because I ran out of space), all of which are from my days in middle/high school.
-
Yes! I write at work with pencil and spiral notebook. Helps me think things through to not be able to write as fast as I can think.
I usually don't write story chapters when I'm away from my comp. When this is the case, I write up outlines and notes of what I want to do with the story and what characters I want to appear and what their like, shit like that. I have like...a shit ton of "databases" on different stories and characters tucked away in a huge folders, packets and even bags (because I ran out of space), all of which are from my days in middle/high school.
I write whole chapters with a small notebook and pen I can fit in my pocket, then when I transfer from notebook to computer small parts with change or be altered. Of course what happened with my last chapter was I wound up changing almost EVERYTHING about it. But it's a lot better of a way to spend down time at work then sitting their twiddling my thumbs (I don't work at a place that has internet).
-
I remember once I used to ha this plastic packet I kept all my story/comic notes in for high school. The thing with me is, I don't simply write the database, I draw something up pretaining to it too, especially if it's a character. I dunno why, but that's what I used to do everytime I wrote down notes...I'd plug in some form of visual of what I'm talking about and then keep on writing about it.
Oh and that packet I had? It burst open when I was nearing the end of the school year...I mean, literally split open because there was so much inside it. I shit you not.
-
I make outlines and notes like that too. I just need to take better notes when I get too far ahead of where I'm actually at in the story. I get to looking over stuff and am hit with a what the hell did I mean here, it's happened more times than I'd like.
And speaking of clarity, does anyone else ever worry too much about how clear the story is going. I mean I'm constantly arguing with myself. Going "I don't know if they've got it, I better have her say her motivation." "That's too blunt, I should put more clues." "That's too much, I should take some away." etc, etc. And I end up with what looks like a contrived coincidence :ohdear:
-
Yes, but as a general rule, it's always best to go with "show, don't tell". Demonstrate instead of explain. Even then, though, you have to let it flow naturally and give your readers the benefit of the doubt to get the message. Being obtuse is less annoying than hitting the reader over the head. And as always, let other trusted eyes read it before you release it.
-
How much you say depends a lot on what kind of writer you are. I don't consider my self that great of a writer but hey, that's why I'm writing in the first place. I try to just flow my story how I feel it works best and if the readers have a problem with something I'm doing in some way I'm always more then welcome to taking suggestions on my style or changing something up. I have a general outline of where the story needs to go but the little details I fill in as I write the chapter so those can always be changed. That's the great things about writing in this kind of forum, it's not like your writing a book so there is a possibility of feedback.
Don't worry to much about whether it's hard for the reader to understand, the people reading what you write are probably a lot smarter then what you give them credit for. If you really think the reader needs to understand something, try to find a cleaver way of "explaining" it without explaining it.
-
If you really think the reader needs to understand something, try to find a clever way of "explaining" it without explaining it.
A.k.a. showing and not telling. Saying "He walked into the old woman's shop and, when she turned her back to answer the phone, reached behind the display case and take several gold chains before walking out of the store, whistling a happy tune." as opposed to "Character X is not a nice person, and generally doesn't have any qualms with stealing from others."
But generally speaking, err towards under-revealing - having to think about what's going on in a story is generally at least less irritating than having the author spoonfeed the story to you.
-
Thanks for the tips. I really like the "show, don't tell" rule. I'm still a little worried cause I'm pretty bad at explaining things.
-
Thanks for the tips. I really like the "show, don't tell" rule. I'm still a little worried cause I'm pretty bad at explaining things.
It's actually a lot of fun. A quick way to do this is, when presented with an idea or concept you want to convey to the reader, ask yourself, "What event would demonstrate this concept to be the case?" In the above example, the concept you want the reader to understand is that Character X is remorseless and amoral. The event that conveys it is him stealing from an old woman and whistling happily as he walks away.
-
Ack. I made my short-stories thread with the intention of forcing myself to start writing more, and it nearly works, but...
every time I sit down to start writing, the concept for the idea I had just goes *whff* right out the window.
I need to cultivate some more ideas, but... so far everything I can think of is starting to turn into a one-trick pony deal for me... it's all related to telepathy or inner thought processes.
I look at this rut I'm digging and try to convince myself I can get away from it, but every time I open the thread and start writing, it turns out the same - it has to do with one of the satori, or it's like the first story I wrote into it (A day in the life of - the inner thought processes of Alice as she starts her day and deals with a quick visit from Marisa).
I can't come up with anything new :v
A while back I tried to counter this by suggesting a collaborative work, and IcedFairy rose to the occasion by providing me a lot of excellent information pertaining to what we'd chosen, and even though I have all I need for a good foundation of a story, I can't be bothered to write it >.o
-
Ack. I made my short-stories thread with the intention of forcing myself to start writing more, and it nearly works, but...
every time I sit down to start writing, the concept for the idea I had just goes *whff* right out the window.
I need to cultivate some more ideas, but... so far everything I can think of is starting to turn into a one-trick pony deal for me... it's all related to telepathy or inner thought processes.
I look at this rut I'm digging and try to convince myself I can get away from it, but every time I open the thread and start writing, it turns out the same - it has to do with one of the satori, or it's like the first story I wrote into it (A day in the life of - the inner thought processes of Alice as she starts her day and deals with a quick visit from Marisa).
I can't come up with anything new :v
A while back I tried to counter this by suggesting a collaborative work, and IcedFairy rose to the occasion by providing me a lot of excellent information pertaining to what we'd chosen, and even though I have all I need for a good foundation of a story, I can't be bothered to write it >.o
My suggestion: Listen to music, try to think of something involving touhou characters. Don't let the first idea you have bother you, try to get a couple, write them down as they come with you, discuss each one with a friend (could be the same friend or a different one, doesn't matter. I have one go-to person for all my Touhou banter). Choose whichever idea you feel you -really- want to make into a story that got a good response from your friend.
-
A while back I tried to counter this by suggesting a collaborative work, and IcedFairy rose to the occasion by providing me a lot of excellent information pertaining to what we'd chosen, and even though I have all I need for a good foundation of a story, I can't be bothered to write it >.o
It's okay. I'll just sit in the corner and cry as my research languishes.... :ohdear:
As a serious suggestion perhaps try some crack work? I'm using that to try to get back into gear. Not working perfectly but I feel like I'm doing something.
Assuming Neonie's suggestion doesn't work.
-
Another suggestion is to maybe look at lots and lots of fanart of characters you like. You could see a scene and be all like "oh hey cool" and suddenly desire to explore how that scene came to be... or something.
-
My suggestion: Listen to music
I go insane if I don't have some kind of music playing at all times :ohdear: and I don't mean like, rap my knuckles on the desk and breath heavily, I mean like seriously start hallucinating some whacked out shit. Either that or I really am a latent telepath and the music keeps it from turning on when I least expect it ANYWAYS MOVING ON
discuss each one with a friend (could be the same friend or a different one, doesn't matter. I have one go-to person for all my Touhou banter). Choose whichever idea you feel you -really- want to make into a story that got a good response from your friend.
All my friends are sick and tired of me discussing anything even remotely Touhou related to them - a few of them have gone so far as to scoff when I bring up any Touhou musical arrangements (their loss).
Another suggestion is to maybe look at lots and lots of fanart of characters you like. You could see a scene and be all like "oh hey cool" and suddenly desire to explore how that scene came to be... or something.
I should try this. Must use the 'badass' or 'epic' tags in conjunction with 'touhou' on Danbo more often.
It's okay. I'll just sit in the corner and cry as my research languishes.... :ohdear:
:qq:
As a serious suggestion perhaps try some crack work?
I'm gonna need a definition on that one - what do you mean, 'crack work'?
-
I'm gonna need a definition on that one - what do you mean, 'crack work'?
Well, I kinda feel my Mechwarrior crossover is crack. And then there's the Succubus Manor sim I'm doing on the RPG board. And the thing I'm writing for later this month....
Basically just amusing things. Not necessarily good, but amusing.
-
Me, my problem is "I know basically exactly what I want to have happen next, but actually sitting down and writing a paragraph of prose, which would probably take up five panels of comic which would each arguably be a whole lot more effort than the paragraph, but when I sit down to type it up I'm all 'behhhhh, I don't wannaaaaaaaaaaaa ...'"
-
Me, my problem is "I know basically exactly what I want to have happen next, but actually sitting down and writing a paragraph of prose, which would probably take up five panels of comic which would each arguably be a whole lot more effort than the paragraph, but when I sit down to type it up I'm all 'behhhhh, I don't wannaaaaaaaaaaaa ...'"
my bretheren! I have longed to meet one who has the same prose problem as you!
Sometimes it's so bad, I don't write for a while...not mentioning other factors >~>
-
Me, my problem is "I know basically exactly what I want to have happen next, but actually sitting down and writing a paragraph of prose, which would probably take up five panels of comic which would each arguably be a whole lot more effort than the paragraph, but when I sit down to type it up I'm all 'behhhhh, I don't wannaaaaaaaaaaaa ...'"
Yeah this. Describing things and moving them on in a way that feels even a little organic is torture.
-
All my friends are sick and tired of me discussing anything even remotely Touhou related to them - a few of them have gone so far as to scoff when I bring up any Touhou musical arrangements (their loss).
I have almost the exact same problem. Only one of my friends is still alright with it, but some of the others have resorted to instantly turning off any Touhou arrangements I send them or making nearly incessant pedophilia jokes. Thankfully, I still have that one friend and my mother to talk about it with.
On another topic, doesn't it suck when you have ideas for writing absolutely everything that isn't the one thing you're trying to write about? I have a novel that I should be working on, but I have no motivation to write it, instead going for half-assed Touhou fiction. :derp:
-
All my friends are sick and tired of me discussing anything even remotely Touhou related to them - a few of them have gone so far as to scoff when I bring up any Touhou musical arrangements (their loss).
I have almost the exact same problem. Only one of my friends is still alright with it, but some of the others have resorted to instantly turning off any Touhou arrangements I send them or making nearly incessant pedophilia jokes. Thankfully, I still have that one friend and my mother to talk about it with.
Isn't that why you guys have us~? <3
On another topic, doesn't it suck when you have ideas for writing absolutely everything that isn't the one thing you're trying to write about? I have a novel that I should be working on, but I have no motivation to write it, instead going for half-assed Touhou fiction. :derp:
Hahaha, I'm the same way. In the end, Touhou is far less intimidating than something original. :V
-
On another topic, doesn't it suck when you have ideas for writing absolutely everything that isn't the one thing you're trying to write about? I have a novel that I should be working on, but I have no motivation to write it, instead going for half-assed Touhou fiction. :derp:
I've definitely been there. The upside to that, though, is that taking a break from longer projects by taking a side project just to take a change of tone for a while can be refreshing, though. I just finished, both typed up and hand-written, the rough draft to a pretty long story. I know I should get the handwritten bits typed up, and then flesh out the story better. But I've been in the head of one main character for months now, and I need a little air, so I'm doing an unrelated, much shorter story with a different cast. I tend to do this most often when I feel the longer piece is losing steam. Coming back to it when I've finished the side project, and new ideas are there that I didn't see before.
-
Remember how I said Sara and Acied were characters from another story I'm working on?
Yeah. That story isn't double-spaced, like everything I type up to be submitted here, and it's at 130 pages at 12pt font.
The collected works I've written for the Touhou fandom are quickly overtaking that number - FFitK itself was nearly 60-70 pages long.
-
But I've been in the head of one main character for months now, and I need a little air, so I'm doing an unrelated, much shorter story with a different cast. I tend to do this most often when I feel the longer piece is losing steam. Coming back to it when I've finished the side project, and new ideas are there that I didn't see before.
Oh god, this so much. Sweet Dreams is the short story to White Rose's long sprawling tale; I try to update them on-off each week, but it has gotten to the point sometimes where I just can't bring myself to touch White Rose, so I do Sweet Dreams instead. It really works.
-
All my friends are sick and tired of me discussing anything even remotely Touhou related to them - a few of them have gone so far as to scoff when I bring up any Touhou musical arrangements (their loss).
I don't have this problem because 1) I don't talk about Touhou to people who don't know it (it only leads to a conversation death) and 2) I have no true friends...at least not any that are around my home anymore.
As for other stories besides my main ones.
I consider Mystic Mutation my main story (only in the sense of it being my first serious piece of Touhou fiction), Gourmet's Road is (another) attempt at something that's far more dark and morbid than what I had in mind for MM. So you could say that Gourmet's Road is where go to put down all my dark thoughts instead of trying to find a way to squeeze them into Mystic Mutation. This helps to avoid ruining the overall mood of MM while still allowing me to be as cruel as I want in a different story.
-
How do you people ever manage to organize all your written stuff? I've never had the patience to file them all in a neat manner. >.<
-
How do you people ever manage to organize all your written stuff? I've never had the patience to file them all in a neat manner. >.<
I think i love everything about your name, avatar and sig.
Also I only have like two stories I'm working on, both are touhou related. One I'm not sure if I'll ever show anyone.
-
How do you people ever manage to organize all your written stuff? I've never had the patience to file them all in a neat manner. >.<
What do you mean by that?
I just keep everything I write in separate files for each story and plop them all in My Documents.
-
How do you people ever manage to organize all your written stuff? I've never had the patience to file them all in a neat manner. >.<
Well, for one, all the organized works here were summarized and organized in a massive team effort, from a group of like eight or nine different people working together.
Now, if you mean personal works, you have to understand - not many of us actually have more than two or three stories to our names, not counting our respective short-story threads.
I think I have all of... lessee...
FtF
AO
EW
FFitK
Just four stories? And one short-story thread, though, to be honest, AO could go there, too.
Judgment of Jack Van Kirk isn't a story, and I don't consider it one - it's more like, a writer's monument, you know?
-
How do you people ever manage to organize all your written stuff? I've never had the patience to file them all in a neat manner. >.<
This is why I use my signature the way I do.
-
This is why I use my signature the way I do.
I like how your links get progressively shorter as they move to the right :derp:
-
I like how your links get progressively shorter as they move to the right :derp:
Well, shorts and skirts look better the shorter they are, if you know what I mean :3
-
I CALL BEES! "Let's Tour MotK" is LONGER than "Sweet Dreams"!
-
If we count what's currently in progress, I have PLotSS and DRK.
Including complete/discontinued works I've got PLotSS, DRK, TEiPW, CFoRH and RS. Still not actually that much, and I don't like the idea of linking to my fics via sig - feels like advertising. :S
On another degree, anyone here ever find themselves suddenly writing more? In the last year or so I've gone from being intimidated by writing 2k words for an update to writing 10k in a night for the Rising Star finale. Is it just a matter of adding more detail or trying to write more adventurous and complicated stories?
-
I've been having trouble writing a couple of my stories.
First, I've been working on the pretty ambitious project of novelizing every Touhou game to date, starting with HRtP. However, given the general lack of plot in the game, I've basically used this as a sort of freebie, introducing characters that didn't exist until the Windows games (or didn't exist at all). My main concern is how I'm using Kasen... I'm guess the best analogy would be she's Reimu's Gandalf. She'll appear and disappear throughout the early stories, helping when it's needed then sort of fade away. I'm conflicted about what to do with Rin - she's going to play a BIG role in the early stories, and might even show up in the later ones, though it's more likely she'll get written out and make small appearances occasionally.
Connecting the PC98 and the Windows storylines is a major theme here, but there are elements that I'm not sure about... for instance, Ruukoto. Should Reimu get her, and what purpose should she serve? I've thought briefly about changing her to a robot combat maid, (lol). I've also been thinking about how I should handle the narrative of the later games, with more than one leading character. Should I keep it first person, or maybe make only Reimu's parts FP... this was a major issue for me with August Star, which was originally all Maribel's POV, and I wanted multiple plot threads going.
Next, I was writing a Reisen origin story called Mare Desiderii. After reading Ruroto's White Rose, I wanted to try my hand at a war epic, but I soon realized that while I knew how I wanted to start it and how I wanted to end it, I knew very little about the in between... this actually tends to be a problem for a lot of my work. There was also an problem with characters. This was to be set on the Moon, during the Lunar War, so apart from Reisen most of the characters would have to be OCs. And as most people know, OCs can either make or break a fic. Usually the latter.
I guess my question here is what do most of you do when you absolutely must use an OC?
Wow... this turned out to be a bit longer than I thought it would be. Thanks to anyone who reads it.
-
I guess my question here is what do most of you do when you absolutely must use an OC?
Wow... this turned out to be a bit longer than I thought it would be. Thanks to anyone who reads it.
If I have to use an OC, then I use an OC. Simple as that.
You're probably already aware of what to avoid when using an OC so...I won't play the broken record here.
-
I myself dislike the idea of OCs in fanfiction, since it's...well, fanfiction. It's a story based on the events and characters of another person, and I feel bringing in your own characters sort of goes against the whole idea. If you want to make your own story with your own characters, then do so! Or at least give me a good explanation for why Naruto suddenly became best friends with your white-haired bishonen with red eyes and dark secret past that he can't remember because AMNESIA.
(I admit that was a rather strawman argument, but still, I never saw any benefit to bringing in OCs to fanfiction, and I really tend to avoid any fic that has the word "OC" in it, especially if they're paired with a canon character)
-
I personally don't see fanfiction and "regular" fiction as an either/or binary with no overlap. No genre of fiction is defined by what kinds of characters it can have. Comedies can have tragic figures, drama pieces can have funny characters, and fanfiction can have OCs. The problem isn't so much with having them as being very, very careful that you avoid putting yourself in a piece of fanfiction. Authors self-insert in regular fiction all the time, but in fanfiction, to do so is often seen as the writer engaging in their personal fantasy kick, hanging out with their best buds, the fictional characters someone else created. But that doesn't necessarily mean that writing OCs into fanfiction is automatically a self-insert, nor that it somehow violates the sanctity of fanfiction.
-
One of the things I think can fit original characters into is an almost entirely OC fic. To go off the Naruto OC fanfic example, there is a lot more to that world than the characters of Naruto. Maybe you'd want to explore what some other villages are doing during the current crisis, which necessitates the creation of almost an entire village of OCs. I would say it's like an original story set in the same world as an already created story, much like the Star Wars EU. (now that I think about it, the Star Wars EU is precisely like it.)
-
(now that I think about it, the Star Wars EU is precisely like it.)
You could say that anything not written by George Lucas is fanfiction - except those particular fans happen to have distributors :B
-
And everything written for The Simpsons not penned by Matt Groening.
-
Not that I was putting the EU down of course, I think the EU is one of the best parts of Star Wars. It gives a sense of a world beyond the main story. probably why Renko and Mary are high up on my character list, they give a sense of a world that's bigger than that of just the main story.
-
Not that I was putting the EU down of course, I think the EU is one of the best parts of Star Wars. It gives a sense of a world beyond the main story. probably why Renko and Mary are high up on my character list, they give a sense of a world that's bigger than that of just the main story.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the EU in my book, either.
Hell, if I'd taken pictures of the back room of my parents house when I was growing up, you all would've cried manly tears of pride.
A thick realwood waterbed frame was turned up onto its side. This gave it a depth of about 18~20 inches. Dad built frameworks to go inside the actual frame and turned the entire thing into a giant bookshelf (queen size waterbed, mind you).
Three books deep and stacked two high along four levels of this massive bookshelf. Almost literally, every Star Trek and Star Wars EU novel was there. My parents are huuuuuuuge sci-fi geeks, though they'd never admit that to anyone. It's like its their dirty little secret.
-
If I have to use an OC, then I use an OC. Simple as that.
You're probably already aware of what to avoid when using an OC so...I won't play the broken record here.
And most importantly...give them a personality.
-
And most importantly...give them a personality.
White Rose's first chapter has a number of OCs. They get killed off by Yumeko pretty quickly.
On the other hand, I do also have Sumire, Shikieiki's most loyal fairy general of Higan. (And like the other generals, she's named for a character from Sakura Taisen.) Strangely for a Touhou OC, I have received various compliments from readers for her, mostly admiring her loyalty to Shiki, which is both her strongest point and potential Achilles Heel.
So yes, if you're going to have a recurring OC, give him/her a personality and flaws, so the OC isn't just some annoying tagalong.
-
So, what do you guys think of novelizations of games/movies/etc? Like, taking whatever media you're watching and putting it to words, like what UD did in his Touhou Ibunshu series.
I think they're great fun to do, especially for games that aren't too text-heavy or give huge insight into the characters. I'm currently working on a Metroid Prime 2 novelization and I'm really having a lot of fun with fleshing out Samus's personality, but what do you guys think? Do they add depth to a story or do they take away from the original?
-
So, what do you guys think of novelizations of games/movies/etc? Like, taking whatever media you're watching and putting it to words, like what UD did in his Touhou Ibunshu series.
I think they're great fun to do, especially for games that aren't too text-heavy or give huge insight into the characters. I'm currently working on a Metroid Prime 2 novelization and I'm really having a lot of fun with fleshing out Samus's personality, but what do you guys think? Do they add depth to a story or do they take away from the original?
Pure red flag for me. It's something that makes me pause when I pick up a fic. I already created a view of the game when I played it, so a novelization is going to clash, sometimes harshly with that. I can ignore clashing views of characters really easily when there's something else for me to follow, but with novelizations of the games the plot is something I know, and all I end up with is characterizations I may or may not agree with. It seems a polirizing factor.
Admittedly this may be because of UD's ESoD work, which contained almost everything I don't like in a Touhou fic in one package. I've seen a couple of novelizations I actually liked (mainly those played for humor value) and I'm totally fine with retellings like Void of Fantasy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4948.0.html). So I may just have a bias. Then again those all add something to the story that interests me.
As for writing novelizations... I'd much rather put a twist in the story then retell something I've played through before. Makes me feel more like a writer then a chronicler. But that I'm sure is pure personal preference.
-
I'm totally neutral on the subject. The mechanics alone of using the elements of a game or movie and making it into a novel aren't intrinsically bad or good. It's wholly up to the author whether they take those elements and build upon the existing canon, create a nice variation, or create something altogether different and wonderful.
-
So, what do you guys think of novelizations of games/movies/etc? Like, taking whatever media you're watching and putting it to words, like what UD did in his Touhou Ibunshu series.
I think they're great fun to do, especially for games that aren't too text-heavy or give huge insight into the characters. I'm currently working on a Metroid Prime 2 novelization and I'm really having a lot of fun with fleshing out Samus's personality, but what do you guys think? Do they add depth to a story or do they take away from the original?
It all depends on the final product, really. The process itself isn't automatically flawed or flawless. It's the same concept as fanficton, which novelizations generally are.
-
So, what do you guys think of novelizations of games/movies/etc? Like, taking whatever media you're watching and putting it to words, like what UD did in his Touhou Ibunshu series.
I think they're great fun to do, especially for games that aren't too text-heavy or give huge insight into the characters. I'm currently working on a Metroid Prime 2 novelization and I'm really having a lot of fun with fleshing out Samus's personality, but what do you guys think? Do they add depth to a story or do they take away from the original?
Depends on how much leg room the literary version has. If it can clear up or expound on things the original had, then I wouldn't mind it. Otherwise, it'd just be like reading a screenplay copy.
-
Good morning/evening
I've been having problems on writing my story because it's becoming hard to write it more simply without losing content. However, my present writing style in Specialis Libri has become too complex and hard to understand, and I want to improve it.
Is there any way to reduce to complexity of a story without losing too much of its content?
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. ^^
*sigh* Maybe I should stick to drawing stuff...maybe writing is just way over my head...
-
Good morning/evening
I've been having problems on writing my story because it's becoming hard to write it more simply without losing content. However, my present writing style in Specialis Libri has become too complex and hard to understand, and I want to improve it.
Is there any way to reduce to complexity of a story without losing too much of its content?
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. ^^
Sometimes you have to sacrifice content. Whether it be something you reveal in an authors note or just something you put into play and have everyone in universe accept. For example I never fully explained the relationship between the magicians in a New World, but eventually enough hints dropped down so that people could make educated guesses that were close to the truth.
If you're worried about having too many plot threads, start collapsing them. Figure out what you NEED for the story and try drawing the rest of the plot back towards that. Maybe sit down and plan your work out again. See where you stand, and where you need to go, and try to replot things. I've done that a lot with the visual novel.
*sigh* Maybe I should stick to drawing stuff...maybe writing is just way over my head...
Ack! No no no no no! You're really good at this. Don't abandon us. :ohdear:
-
Admittedly this may be because of UD's ESoD work, which contained almost everything I don't like in a Touhou fic in one package.
I'm curious. Could you elaborate on what things you don't like?
I mean, I imagine it has something to do with the fact that he goes at right-angles to canon in ways my alternate-universe-fics can only dream of, and he takes various ideas from Touhou and runs the other way with them when he isn't simply flatly contradicting canon (starting with the fact that only the most powerful beings in Udverse can fly and running from there), and the stories are generally much more Srs Bsns with no hint of the Spell Card rules, and every single fic involves either a character getting naked or some other fanservice for no particular story-supporting reason, and ... uh, I've pretty much answered my own question, haven't I? ;)
I mean, for the most part, I don't mind all that because he isn't actually a bad writer exactly. But Still.
-
I mean, for the most part, I don't mind all that because he isn't actually a bad writer exactly. But Still.
I personally consider Marisa's unnecessary speech impediment bad writing. It's one of the reasons I didn't get past Meiling.
Normally I wouldn't bring it up, but I figure it's a good thing for people to remember in general. Speech tics work very poorly in written form unless you're really good, or can work off someone elses voice work. I try to avoid them mostly.
-
Oh, yeah, that too. The way the narration described it at the beginning of RoSD made me think of Jar-Jar Binks.
-
I thought Marisa's speech impediment was cute :ohdear:
Although I see what you mean, canon defilement is one of the things I can't stand in fanfiction. I always try to stay strictly within canon in my stories.
-
Well, that's the thing about Touhou: Canon is vague enough that one man's "strictly according to canon" is another man's "canon defilement."
-
Sometimes you have to sacrifice content. Whether it be something you reveal in an authors note or just something you put into play and have everyone in universe accept. For example I never fully explained the relationship between the magicians in a New World, but eventually enough hints dropped down so that people could make educated guesses that were close to the truth.
If you're worried about having too many plot threads, start collapsing them. Figure out what you NEED for the story and try drawing the rest of the plot back towards that. Maybe sit down and plan your work out again. See where you stand, and where you need to go, and try to replot things. I've done that a lot with the visual novel.
Thanks a lot, I'll try reorganizing my outline to clear out the unnecessary plot.
Ack! No no no no no! You're really good at this. Don't abandon us. :ohdear:
I was just joking. :)
Specialis Libri is all about giving Kana a solid backstory.
-
Alright, I've become curious. I usually write my stories sequentially without skipping anything to write a later part. But I've heard other people skip around in their stories when they get stuck. What do you all find works better for you? And if you skip around, do you usually find yourself changing later parts when you go back to parts that come before them (if that makes any sense at all)?
-
Alright, I've become curious. I usually write my stories sequentially without skipping anything to write a later part. But I've heard other people skip around in their stories when they get stuck. What do you all find works better for you? And if you skip around, do you usually find yourself changing later parts when you go back to parts that come before them (if that makes any sense at all)?
I do skip around occasionally. Usually I do it when I have a very clear picture on how I want a scene to turn out, so I don't have to do much rewriting when I catch up, but there's always little edits. Of course that forces me to edit the work again, which is always a good thing.
-
Alright, I've become curious. I usually write my stories sequentially without skipping anything to write a later part. But I've heard other people skip around in their stories when they get stuck. What do you all find works better for you? And if you skip around, do you usually find yourself changing later parts when you go back to parts that come before them (if that makes any sense at all)?
As much as I'd like to, I never skip. It's much less confusing for me if I write events as they occur. And I hate going back over my stuff to rework it myself.
-
I only skip if the scene I'm skipping to is coming to my head so often that it distracts me from what I'm trying to focus on.
-
I tend not to skip a scene. If for some reason I'm bored or frustrated with it, I'll leave it alone for a while and go for a long walk, talking it out. Might even work on a separate story. But I always write sequentially.
-
I only skip if the scene I'm skipping to is coming to my head so often that it distracts me from what I'm trying to focus on.
I do this myself. I store it away in a separate document so it won't get in the way of the part of the story I should be working on, and then I just continue.
-
I think I've figured out that one of the reasons I'm dragging my feet on RFO in particular is the fact that it's mostly action sequences. I need to figure out how to condense it without making it seem like I'm skimming ... or make the action-sequences more interesting, both for myself and the reader ...
-
I don't like skipping scenes alot being I have a horrid memory and odds are I'll forget something. So I try to limit the amount of scenes I skip to a minimum of two or one. If I go over this, I'm only asking for trouble and a fucked up story.
-
I don't like skipping scenes alot being I have a horrid memory and odds are I'll forget something. So I try to limit the amount of scenes I skip to a minimum of two or one. If I go over this, I'm only asking for trouble and a fucked up story.
Same here. The reason why I take breaks and then come back to it, as opposed to skipping ahead, is for the sake of consistency. I know other people can write a story non-sequentially, bouncing forwards and backwards across the pages, but I just can't. I need to stay in the groove to keep the story cohesive.
-
I think I've figured out that one of the reasons I'm dragging my feet on RFO in particular is the fact that it's mostly action sequences. I need to figure out how to condense it without making it seem like I'm skimming ... or make the action-sequences more interesting, both for myself and the reader ...
I have that problem with action scenes too. I feel like I'm spending a lot of the battle explaining what the cards do and I'm pretty sure most everyone here reading it knows what the cards do and I can't see that being all that entertaining to read or write for that matter. Sometimes I throw in something crazy awesome like having Yuugi catch one of Kanako's logs with her horn and throwing it back at her to keep it fresh.
-
Sometimes I throw in something crazy awesome like having Yuugi catch one of Kanako's logs with her horn and throwing it back at her to keep it fresh.
You need to find someone to draw this, cuz that would be crazy awesome.
-
I do write fight scenes myself for the game I'm running, and while I don't have to have everything planned ahead for it (since the players will be making each move for me), I do have to put a lot of thought into how I actually write those actions, and the actions of the opposition, out. Since the players have to know what's happening in order to issue commands, I feel like describing everything in detail is important, but I also try to find a balance or break things up enough that the action doesn't feel like it takes effort to read.
What I find works best is trying to visualize the action yourself. This may not seem like very good advice, but visualization put into motion (i.e. mimicking movements, bending your limbs to match the action, etc.) helps me when I write physical fight scenes. if you're writing a fight scene that takes place with bullets in the air or something, you can physically check your descriptions if you're writing about dodges and things like that.
-
I don't use daku in my fiction, I just have them battle as they would in the fighting games. :P
Or really supper out of control stuff like Marisa's fight with Cirno.
-
I found that the secret to writing a good battle scene is to minimize bloody details of what the particular attack does/what it looks like. Something along the line of 'she shouted and out came a torrent of those damned blue and white arrowheads, spreading for miles. I pulled back, nimbly dodging the projectiles, yadda yadda' works fine. It keeps the scene fast paced and exciting for both, the writer and the reader. As I tend to be an action oriented person who has action scenes in both his serious and silly stories in addition to having been in a myriad of forum RP's for years, I've gotten accustomed to writing battle scenes.
In other words, don't try to write things like how they are in the shmups. Visualize yourself in that battlefield, fighting that spellcard duel and let it flow. It should be closer to the fighting games really.
-
Slight tangent:
I have the tendency to write battle scenes as bloodily as possible. This has nothing to do with my supposed attention to detail and everything to do with my bloodlust
fetish. But it does have the interesting side effect of making the fights more realistic.
Though, the scenes in White Rose where Higan and Makai's armies are fighting were not written with my fetish in mind! Rather, it's because there are few things on this planet I hate more than war, and in the same vein (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun) as The Red Badge of Courage, I really hate the mentality that war is glorious, so I go out of my way to make it horrific. One of the things I regret most is that because this is Touhou, fairies' wounds don't last, and ultimately the carnage turns out to be bloodless (damn that Hell of Blazing Fires) which is why there's a scene with Alice working in an almost Civil War-era field hospital to make up for it. My conscience just wouldn't let me get away with making war look less horrific than it is.
More on-topic: You want a way to learn to write good fight scenes? Then watch a lot of them. Give your brain more material to draw on, and sit down with some movies that have the kind of combat you're thinking of. Space battles? Watch some Star Wars. Hand-to-hand combat? Watch some old-school kung fu movies. Danmaku is a bit harder, but videos like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2H8pL8gTXo) can help with visualizing that. And when all else fails, play the fighting games-- describing those moves alone would make for some really good fights.
-
Danmaku is a bit harder, but videos like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2H8pL8gTXo) can help with visualizing that.
Another slight tangent: that video is amazing.
-
Another slight tangent: that video is amazing.
Very true. Very very true.
Also, I've been trying to cut back on un-needed info in my story, and that video makes me cry a bit, both happy and sad tears. I just went through a fight scene in my story, against Utsuho, and that video blows it out of the water with Utsuho's 1st Non-Card. ;-;
-
I've learned that spellcards can be really, really hard to effectively translate into a 3D environment. A spellcard that can be absolutely terrifying in the games can seem rather easy in real life.
Such is the pain of making fanfiction from a vertical-scrolling shooter.
-
I've learned that spellcards can be really, really hard to effectively translate into a 3D environment. A spellcard that can be absolutely terrifying in the games can seem rather easy in real life.
Such is the pain of making fanfiction from a vertical-scrolling shooter.
Explosion Sign "Tera Flare" was actually not that hard for me, thanks to that FFX+Touhou video Seymour Fusion, and the Dogfight video.
Also, cliffhangers, I have 0 idea if I'm any good with them. ;-; Lack of comments on my story really helps that as well D:
-
I tend to be a sucker for giving details to attacks, more or less, the larger (more epic) variety. However, I only do well with physical violence being Danmaku is one of the things I'm not too big on.
-
Wow, what a convenient discussion to walk into. I recently had the idea of writing a story that had supplemental Danmakufu scripts included, to flesh out the fight scenes beyond descriptions of the patterns (which to be honest, are a pet peeve of mine). Would anyone be interested in reading/playing a story like that?
-
I recently had the idea of writing a story that had supplemental Danmakufu scripts included, to flesh out the fight scenes beyond descriptions of the patterns (which to be honest, are a pet peeve of mine). Would anyone be interested in reading/playing a story like that?
Holy shit. That would be incredibly awesome. Yes, I would love to see something like that.
-
Holy shit. That would be incredibly awesome. Yes, I would love to see something like that.
Seconded
-
Hmmm.
Okay, but only if you don't need to defeat each individual pattern to get to the next one (i.e. they're freely selectable). Reading a story is an entirely different experience from playing a danmaku game. I know you're not saying the danmaku things are required to enjoy the story, but if you can't, or it's too hard, the reader might feel like they're missing out on something.
I dunno ... it has the flavor of something "too gimmicky" or possibly "if you can't enjoy the danmaku you won't enjoy the prose-story," even if it isn't literally that way. Maybe I'm remembering too clearly how Enter the Matrix had vital plot-information that explained certain things in The Matrix: Revolutions that didn't make sense from just the movie.
-
You would be able to choose between individual patterns or the full boss, and you would be allowed to use continues (personally, I think 3 lives is plenty already). The only things the danmaku would have that the text wouldn't would be the patterns and the music. It's additional imagery, not a second medium for the story, so you don't have to worry about being left out if you're terrible at danmaku.
I didn't think anyone would support the idea, so I'm pleasantly surprised. I haven't written any kind of narrative before, but I'm a decent writer otherwise. I hope to live up to expectations. :D
-
I also thrid or 4th or w/e the idea of the Danmaku stuff for fight scenes. It sounds like a great idea!
-
As long as you have an option to make it auto-play the pattern or something, for those of us who are truly horrendous at all manner of danmaku.
-
It's a great idea, really! And for those who dislike playing the patterns, I'm sure there will be some people in HME/RaNGE/AA who'd be happy to record themselves playing and post them on YouTube, as well. :3
-
I can see how this would sound "gimmicky", but honestly, I think this could work so long as two things were in place: 1., an option to skip the danmaku that of course doesn't mean the reader loses part of the story, and 2., that the danmaku at least be run on a platform that anyone can easily use. Danmakufu, for example, would not be a good idea.
Apart from that, I think it would be a nice ornamental element to the story, and could certainly be a lot of fun.
-
I think if we just allowed infinite continues and no drawbacks to doing so there shouldn't be much of a problem.
-
Hi dear people of PSL,
some of you may or may not have seen this topic here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7285.0.html)
It would be nice if you all could have a look at the idea discussed there and comment on it here or in the thread, so we can get an opinion from the ones this idea is actually relevant for: You, the writers of PSL ^^
-
Hm... I read it and I'm kinda torn. While I like the idea of a seperate writer title, there's also the mess that comes with titles in general. Of course the artists seem to handle their title just fine....
I think I'm generally in favor of it. I trust the people here. I do agree Librarian's a job not a prize. You don't even need to qrite to be a Librarian after all. Just read and organize.
-
You don't even need to qrite to be a Librarian after all. Just read and organize.
More like, you needed to be so crazy as to sign up for helping out with reorganizing PSL back then and do such a good job at it that it was decided you should suffer further. That's how Chao and Rou got the job :]
-
I am okay with this idea.
-
I vote just use the Artist tag for the writers as well - this is going along in the same line of thought as the 'we don't need more tags' is using.
-
I don't think a writer tag is necessary. The Artist tag is quite encompassing, and having more tags would just clutter stuff up.
-
how bout we just give the writers the artist tag too :getdown:
-
Yeah, I guess it's settled. If a writer is so outstanding they deserve a reward, it will be RA.
-
I said that partly in jest, but hey if it works then it works :V
-
More like 'lets give them photoshop jockeys the RA tag and join our elite bastion of artists' hurhur
-
I said that partly in jest, but hey if it works then it works :V
Well, it was something that was brought up and more or less accepted in the thread I linked as well, so yeah :V
-
This is more a board suggestion than a fiction topic, but I've been noticing a trend lately where new-ish writers will start topics not with a story, but rather with an outline, or a character list, basically asking for encouragement or suggestions from others. Further along in these threads, story chapters might get fleshed out.
I think there's clearly a demand for some sort of "writer's workshop"; perhaps a stickied thread where people with ideas or outlines that they want feedback on can post in. Once they feel confident enough, or feel the story outline is more solid, then they can go ahead and start a thread on their story.
My reasoning for this suggestion is that such a thread would be an invaluable resource to others trying to work out their own writing - tips on style, organization, dialog and outlining would all be in the workshop thread. It would coalesce the help people could get. Secondly, when they do get around to posting a story, it would stand alone in all its glory, instead of following a couple pages of asking for feedback and getting it.
In other words, a writer's workshop thread would turn into a great resource for people who want help with their fiction ideas, whether they post in the thread or not, and the new stories that arise from that help would get more of the attention they deserve.
-
Actually, Koakuma's was already for that purpose as well, but we can try with an extra thread as well.... hmm, let me dig around, I'm fairly sure we had a thread for story ideas and stuff before. I'll then merge them all together into a workshop thread and sticky it.
-
Actually, Koakuma's was already for that purpose as well, but we can try with an extra thread as well.... hmm, let me dig around, I'm fairly sure we had a thread for story ideas and stuff before. I'll then merge them all together into a workshop thread and sticky it.
Sounds good. Look forward to it!
-
I've noticed something that's pertinent to a lot of fics on the site so I figured I'd make a general comment on it. Or rather start a discussion since I'm really not sure how to handle the matter perfectly myself.
Specifically I figured I mention the first post. The thing everyone's going to see when they open up the thread the first time. I've noticed a lot of really short openings in the past couple of months, and I think that's a mistake. I know I have a hard time getting a feel for anything more then the barest hint of a writers style off a very short intro. I feel the introductory post should give the reader a good feel either for the characters or the plot (as it is in the beginning) by the end of it. If you don't do that your chances of getting solid comments isn't all that great.
On the other hand it should be easy to read too. I imagine some of the longer fics still scare people off, and a very long intro probably does something similar. So I'm not really certain I've mastered it myself.
Anyway what's everyone's opinions for starting out? Good content is, of course, necessary but what do people feel a good length is?
-
I don't really care how long or short something is but these paragraph long fics that are supposed to have some larger plot or something kind of baffle me
-
I notice these are coming from new writers who maybe aren't used to writing 500-1000 words in one sitting. It does take time to develop even that much stamina. And as we've had a number of new faces here, that probably explains the trend. My outlook is that if a single paragraph at a time is what they can manage, that's understandable, and maybe readers are alright with that. But I know the very short pieces leave me feeling there's not enough there to spark a reaction. Like Iced, I want to see a solid intro.
-
Like Iced, I want to see a solid intro.
Speaking of solid entries (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7437.msg467940.html#msg467940), this took long enough
:|
You're such a tease, Ammy.
-
Speaking of solid entries (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7437.msg467940.html#msg467940), this took long enough
:|
You're such a tease, Ammy.
Thanks!
Speaking of which, I need more time with that project you gave me. Got two articles due this week.
-
YOU'RE ALL GONNA JOIN THIS! NO EXCUSES! KEYBOARD ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7476) :getdown:
-
YOU'RE ALL GONNA JOIN THIS! NO EXCUSES! KEYBOARD ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7476) :getdown:
Lunatic Mode. Handwritten and scanned...using your non-dominant hand!
-
Is there a section in this forum where I can put fiction non-affiliated with touhou?
Currently balancing Crossing the Border and this new idea of a story I have in my head.
-
Is there a section in this forum where I can put fiction non-affiliated with touhou?
Currently balancing Crossing the Border and this new idea of a story I have in my head.
There's no rule against non-Touhou-fiction, so feel free to post it here.
-
There's no rule against non-Touhou-fiction, so feel free to post it here.
Ahh Ok. Thank you! :)
-
I feel that everyone needs to read this. Consider it 'straight from the mouth of babes' - sometimes the acknowledgements written by an author can be just as interesting and intriguing as the story they've written themselves.
This is the afterword by Brent Weeks, author of the Night Angel trilogy. The Night Angel trilogy gets the Esifex Full Stamp of Approval - it's the only set of books that hooked me so hard that I read each one in a single sitting - and these are 600+ page behemoths. The story is vivid and manages to hook together several different plots without being convoluted or confusing, there are ample twists and turns as not only is the reader discovering hidden plots and schemes, but the characters are as well. The stories build upon what starts as a basic need for survival and doing everything in your power to meet that goal, then as your power grows, a demand for justice to be carried out replaces that former goal. The trilogy is based out of a pit of corruption and filth - the first book is almost entirely based out of the slums and ghettoes of a run-down, oft-conquered city of Cenaria. Examples of humanity found where you'd least suspect it is counter-balanced by such human filth in positions of power that you can't help but rally to the cause of the characters, even if at first you despise many of them.
I very, very strongly recommend picking these books up if you have any interest in Fantasy Fiction, or even just liked playing the Assassin's Creed games - the main character is a Wetboy, a magically powered Assassin. Another difference, though, is that 'Assassins have targets because they miss sometimes. Wetboys have deaders, because once the contract is taken, their target is dead already - they haven't been told yet.'
Enough of my rambling, this is gonna be a beastly wall of text already as it is.
Acknowledgements by Brent Weeks, Author of 'The Way of Shadows'
It was all downhill after seventh grade. That was the year my English teacher, Nancy Helgath, somehow made me cool when she encouraged me to read Edgar Allan Poe to my classmates at lunch. They sat goggle-eyed as I read "The Pit and the Pendulum," "Berenice," and "The Raven." But I had eyes for only one: the tall, smart girl I had a crush on - and was terrified of - Kristi Barnes.
I soon started my first novel. I would go on to become an English teacher and a writer, and marry Kristi Barnes.
This book wouldn't have happened without my mother - for more than the obvious reason. I started reading late, and when I did, I hated it. This wasn't helped by a teacher who shouted "Choppy sentences!" at me for my inability to read smoothly in the first grade. My mom took me out of school for a year to home-school me (insert social-awkwardness joke here), and her dedication and patience gave me a love for reading.
Thank you to my little sisters, who begged for bedtime stories. An enthusiastic and forgiving audience is a must for a budding teenager storyteller. Any princesses in my books are their fault.
It's one thing to love reading; it's another to write. My high school English teacher, Jael Prezeau, is a teacher in a million. She inspired hundreds. She's the kind of woman who could chew you out, cheer you on, make you work harder than you've ever worked for a class, give you a B, and make you love it. She told me I couldn't break the grammar rules until I was published. It was a rule up with which I could not put. She tried.
In college, I briefly considered politics. Horror. A few people turned me from disaster. One was an industrial spy I met in Oxford. On reading a story I'd written, he said, "I wish I could do what you do." Huh? Then my best friend Nate Davis became the editor of our college literary journal and held a contest for the best short story. Wonder of wonders, I won the cash prize, and realized I'd earned slightly better than minimum wage. I was hooked. (It was better than I would do again for a long, long time.) I started a new novel, and whenever I tried to do my homework, I could count on Jon Low to come knocking on my door. "Hey, Weeks, you got another chapter for me yet?" It was irritating and flattering at once. I had no idea I was being prepared for having an editor.
I must thank the Iowa Writers Program for rejecting me. Though I still sometimes wear all black and drink lattes, they helped me decide to write the kind of books I like rather than the books I ought to like.
My debt to my wife, Kristi, cannot be overstated\. Her faith kept me going. Her sacrifices awe me. Her wisdom has rescued me from many a story dead end. To get published, you have to defy overwhelming odds; to marry a woman like Kristi, you have to knock them out.
My agent Don Maas has an understanding of story that I've not seen rivaled. Don, you've been a reality check, a wise teacher, and an encourager. You make me a better writer.
Huge thanks to the amazing editorial team at Orbit. Devi, thanks for your many insights, your enthusiasm, and your guidance ushering me through an unfamiliar process. Tim, thanks for taking a chance on me. Jennifer, you were my first contact at Orbit, and I have to tell you, the fact that I'd e-mail you a question and get an answer the same morning was a big deal. Of course, then you started sending me paperwork - and then I knew I wasn't dreaming. Alex, thanks for your brilliant Web page design, the beautiful billboards, full page scratch-and-sniff ads in the New York Times, and those nifty little cardboard display stands at Borders. They're fab. Lauren, thank you for taking my ones and zeroes making something real. Hilary, copyeditor extraordinaire, a special thanks for two words: bollock dagger. They made the novel.
I also want to thank all the other people at Orbit and Hachette who do the real work while we artists sit in cafes wearing black, drinking lattes. I'd mention you by name, but I don't know your names. However, I do appreciate what you do to take my words and make something out of them. So, layout people, art people (by the way, Wow!), office go-fers, accountants, lawyers, and the mail guy, thanks.
Crazy dreamers need a lot of encouragers. Kevin, your being proud of me is about the best thing a little brother can get. Dad, one of my first memories is of sharing my worry with you about the space shuttle poking holes in the atmosphere and letting out all of Earth's air. Rather than rushing to correct me, you listened - and still do. Jacob Klein, your encouragement and friendship over the years have been invaluable. You were there at the very beginnig (4 A.M. in Niedfeldt, I think). To the Cabin Guys at Hillsdale College (Jon "Missing Link" Low, Nate "My Head Looks Like PK's Butt" Davis, AJ "My Girlfriend Will Clean It Up" Siegmann, Jason "I love butter" Siegmann, Ryan "Mystery Puker" Downey, Peter "GQ" Koller, Charles "Sand Vest" Robinson, Matt "No Special Sauce" Schramm), I wouldn't have shared a slum house with better wangs. Dennis Foley, you were the first professional writer who gave me time and guidance. You said you'd tell me if I should give up and get a real job - and that I shouldn't. Cody Lee, thanks for the unbridled enthusiasm; it still makes me smile. Shaun and Diane McNay, Mark and Liv Pothoff, Scott and Kariann Box, Scott and Kerry Rueck, Todd and Lisel Williams, Chris Giesch, Blane Hansen, Brian Rapp, Dana Piersall, Jeff and Sandee Newville, Keith and Jen Johnson - thanks for believing in us and helping make the years of work and waiting not just tolerable, but fun.
Thanks to everyone over the years who, on finding out I was a writer, didn't ask, "Oh, are you published?"
Last, thanks to you, curious reader who reads acknowledgments. You do realize the only people who usually read acknowledgments are looking for their own name, right? If you're quirky enough to read acknowledgements without knowing the author, you and I are going to along fine. Picking up a book by an author you've never read is a leap of faith. Here's my offer: you give me a couple of pages, and I'll give you a helluva ride.
Not only does he write for us to read his story, but he writes for the sake of his friends and family, and especially himself. Brent Weeks is a guy who seriously enjoys what he does, and it shows in some of the interviews with him.
But he didn't go it alone, and he remember everyone who helped him out along the way. Most of everyone, at least.
The important bit here is that not only are you writing for an audience, but you're writing for yourself, for your friends, for everyone you know who would enjoy a good story.
Don't stop. Keep on keepin' on.
-
GLORIOUS REVOLUTIONS
-
GLORIOUS REVOLUTIONS
PSL is currently experiencing a Great Leap Forward. Please stand by and await further instructions.
-
Shall we change the name back? It was named Communism Fanworks before, wasn't it? :derp:
-
Too bad I couldn't find Pravda's slogan. I would have used that instead. :<
-
Too bad I couldn't find Pravda's slogan. I would have used that instead. :<
"Organ of the Soviet Communist Party". Yeah, doesn't sound too sexy, does it?
-
A reference, if anyone needs it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8)
-----
To Cirno's I came, seeking fortune
But they're making me post till I'm dead
The Janitors have it so easy
The mod's putting gold on his bread
The people of Patchy's are hungry
But think what a feast there could be
If we could create a book-loving state
That cared for the writers like me...
I am the man who arranges the books
That are written by authors just like you
When their deed is completed, I read
Till the end is decreed, then file them through
Sometimes it seems that to skim fics is fine
And the tale will reach its ending soon
Then I see that there's plenty to go (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,183.0.html)
And I'll have to discard my afternoon
Can I have a short one, please?
Why must these infernal fics tease?
I am the man who arranges the books
That continue to fall from up above
Come, those who write! Let the authors unite!
A collective regime of peace and love
I work so hard in arranging the books
But the mod team and admins bleed me dry
But the readers will RISE, we will not compromise
For we know that CPMC must die
Long live Ruro, ban our foes
We salute the strawberry rose
I am the man who arranges the books
That continue to fall from up above
The books on the shelf can't belong to yourself
A collective regime of peace and love
I have no choice in arranging the books
And now Sakana rules, what she says goes
The rule of the game is we all are the same
And my fics must create unbroken prose
Long live Tuna, she loves you
Sing these words, or you know what she'll do
I am the man who arranges the books
That the one-weekly contest brings to pass
They come two weeks late, and they're meme-spamming bait
But it's still posted, even if it's ass
I am the man who arranges the tanks
So our enemies' blood will freely flow
The artists are dead! And Ruro is RED!
Let us point all our guns at the TSO!
We shall write forever more
We can start a flaming-post war!
I am the man who arranges the words
That are building a project Gappy fears
Frolic in glee for the great library,
For our VN is fueled by artist's tears!
I work so hard in arranging the books
But on IRC I can't vent my steam
It took ages for me to create my OC
And now she's been reduced to phweeing memes!
Pointless work for zero pay
This is one game I shall not play
I am the man who arranges the books...!
...But, tomorrow, I think I'll go outside.
My writing is poor, can't produce anymore,
Who will care if I let my fanfics slide?
Maybe folks will like me too
IF I WRITE A MARY-SUE!
I am the man who arranges the books
That continue to fall from up above
My OC is me, and he's clearly OP
Tell me, why should I care for peace and love?
My OC is me, and he's clearly OP
Tell me, why should I care for peace and love?
Peace and love
Peace and looooove!
-----
And now the shelves are down
The admins frown
There's Marty Stus all over town
The Tuna's lair: Well, don't despair
There's filleted fish surrounding there
The fairies gave us crystal meth
And Ruro bled herself to death
But now that Fate has stopped the hating
Who'll get in our way?
So we reject generic prose
And once again, respect the rose
Prepare the crosses, let them fly
Resign our posts? We'd rather die
We shall against the artists fight
We shall display our authors' might
We shall produce our fics and write
Forever and a day
Fiiiiiiic ooooveeeeeeeer.
-
Rou you are a genius :>
-
Woah. Rarely I look upon thee fics anymore, but I guessed the newfound Communist regime will produce something of that caliber. My hat off to you, Rou!
-
Oh, jesus. Here, too?
Ah, well. It'll pass, with time, or, I'll get used to it. No point bitching about it anyways :P
Fuckin' commies.
-
Oh, jesus. Here, too?
Weekend communism. On Monday, we are back to capitalism as usual.
And Rou: That was awesome.
-
Weekend communism. On Monday, we are back to capitalism as usual.
Color scheme, like communism, is invincible! ...for a little while.
-
Weekend communism.
I lol'd
-
[23:39] <&Sakura-Rurouni> Oh, I just realized
[23:40] <&Sakura-Rurouni> Forums are back up, so is it time to end weekend communism?
[23:40] <Iced> Probably
[23:40] <@Chaore> yep
[23:40] * Gate_To_Erebus shrugs
[23:40] <Lloyd> o_o Weekend Communism?
[23:40] <Gate_To_Erebus> If that's how it's gonna be.
[23:40] <Tenken-Matsuri> Sure!
[23:40] * Gate_To_Erebus picks nose.
[23:40] <&Sakura-Rurouni> Lloyd, check out PSL.
[23:41] <Lloyd> Ah, thanks for pointing~ <3
[23:41] <Lloyd> Gwaa!! o___O;;
[23:42] <Lloyd> solid... yellow & red... colors........@___@;;
[23:42] <Iced> Fear not comrade. Now that you have seen it, the socialist state shall live on in your heart.
-
ANNOUNCEMENT!
As of today, the KGB is located in the depths of PSL, don't disturb the Russian's, they're just doing their job.
No, actually it's Koakuma opening her bookstore.
What does she sell there?
Completed books of course, what a silly question.
KGB is a storage for all completed story-threads. Librarians are enabled to move completed threads over there. No worries about the Fanworks Listing, the links on there work just as well even if the threads are moved around, so you can always access them from there as usual.
-
We don't have to pay anything to take out books do we? BV
-
We don't have to pay anything to take out books do we? BV
No worries, the KGB already knows your account information and will take care of the necessary payments on its own. :derp:
-
!?
Wait when did you...
:ohdear:
-
too many stickies!!
-
too many stickies!!
That reminds me, I should probably finish judging the end-of-summer contest by the winter solstice.
Which is, like, tomorrow (actually more like in two days).
... well, if I'm lying in bed sick, I might as well put that time to good use!
-
That reminds me, I should probably finish judging the end-of-summer contest by the winter solstice.
Which is, like, tomorrow (actually more like in two days).
... well, if I'm lying in bed sick, I might as well put that time to good use!
:O
I was hoping to make use of that wonderful loophole you'd stitched into it... dawww. Oh well~ Better luck next time
-
That reminds me, I should probably finish judging the end-of-summer contest by the winter solstice.
Which is, like, tomorrow (actually more like in two days).
... well, if I'm lying in bed sick, I might as well put that time to good use!
I was gonna make a joke about that, but you ended up sick so I felt it would be wrong to be picky there. Still it would be nice to see the outcome (and inevitably reread all the entries.)
As for other stickies that might be trimmed, there's the wiki fiction reorg. Not sure if that went anywhere, or if it just faded away. (Though if you want to revive it I'm willing to be drafted. It'd be something interesting to help boost the new wiki).
-
As for other stickies that might be trimmed, there's the wiki fiction reorg. Not sure if that went anywhere, or if it just faded away. (Though if you want to revive it I'm willing to be drafted. It'd be something interesting to help boost the new wiki).
Oh my goodness gracious, you're right. =o
After I'm done with this, at least. This would be the perfect thing to get the wiki away from wikia, what with new content and all!
-
Oh my goodness gracious, you're right. =o
After I'm done with this, at least. This would be the perfect thing to get the wiki away from wikia, what with new content and all!
Oh heh, so we're gonna do the reorg after all? Good, since I wanted to remove that sticky ages ago and was told to leave it because we're gonna do it at some point :V
-
I am interested in this project and would like to subscribe to the newsletter
-
I am a bit bored. Are there any fics you guys recommend? *whiteroseofchireiden*
-
I am a bit bored. Are there any fics you guys recommend? *whiteroseofchireiden*
anything by me :smug:
-
I am a bit bored. Are there any fics you guys recommend? *whiteroseofchireiden*
Are you looking for a finished work, or does it not matter?
-
I am a bit bored. Are there any fics you guys recommend? *whiteroseofchireiden*
Naturally, I suggest anything by myself, but that's because I like to shamelessly promote my own work.
Autobiographies of Interesting Characters has a bunch of short chapters, one per character covered, and is here: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7685.0.html
(But both stories have links in my sig).
For the full library of works here and elsewhere, with descriptions, go here:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4840.0.html
EDIT: Ryuu and Hanged Hourai, out of curiosity, which of your stories would you suggest?
I know you two have written a lot, but the library link isn't particularly easy to track by author, and is about a month from it's last update. So which of your stories would you suggest?
-
If you're looking for something long I'd hunt through the stuff in Koakuma's. Roukan, Ammy and I both have some solid longer completed works that I can recommend without hesitation, but I know there's some good older stuff (and probably new stuff that just finished) that I just can't pull off the top of my head.
If you're looking for simple shorts off the top of my head I'd suggest
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5014.0.html
What Winter Left Behind. My first and in my opinion possibly my best short
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5471.0.html
The Journal of Patchouli's Loyal Assistant. Coin Spire's got a very unique style here that I really like.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7228.0.html
Wriggle on Stage. Ryuu does an interesting team 9.
There's of course a whole bunch more that I'm missing due to forgetfulness, personal preference and because I'm putting out stories I know are done. I can only encourage wandering the library in general and finding the authors that best suit your own tastes.
Edit: Fixed my links.
-
EDIT: Ryuu and Hanged Hourai, out of curiosity, which of your stories would you suggest?
I know you two have written a lot, but the library link isn't particularly easy to track by author, and is about a month from it's last update. So which of your stories would you suggest?
ummm I guess Wriggle on Stage!! like Iced said
if you like parsee, I hear good things about Girl in the Cave(though I'm not done with it yet)
and my shorts thread is my shorts thread, but I tend to be really polarized between super fluff and violently ripping people apart
...oh wait those are my only three threads
EDIT: oh right I forgot about Palaquin Ship's Captain's Log, which is pretty low content-wise but it's enjoyable if you want something quick and simple
sry murabro
-
This doesn't really matter but, eh.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5471.0.html
Wriggle on Stage. Ryuu does an interesting team 9.
That leads to Journal of Patchy's Assistant.
New reply yadda yadda
I only have 1 story thread, so yeah.
-
I am a bit bored. Are there any fics you guys recommend? *whiteroseofchireiden*
White Rose is for people who don't have any pressing things to do for the next three to five days, depending on reading speed :V
My own recommendation should be relatively obvious (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4895.0.html). If Rou does not toot his own horn for Rising Star well enough, then I will do it for him.
-
Also, anything Usually Dead writes is good.
http://www.usuallydead.com/
-
TakerFoxx, too. (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2281223/TakerFoxx)
-
Are there any good stories about Patchouli? I've already read usuallydead's requiem bibliophilic and "The journal of Patchouli's loyal assistant" by Coin Spire, and I haven't really seen much else.
-
Hm... so I'm back.
/gets slapped for abandonning his works
Ouch... anyways...
/gets slapped again
I'm thinking, I'm very bad at writing series, the story poped up and got longer, to the point my hands can't keep up with my mind anymore. It's much better to write one-shots, but you know what? It keeps running in my head to a 200 episodes anime. Is there anyway to stop that? I love writing, but the only way I can complete my fic is typing non-stop. If I stop for a nap, a meal, or even a leak, my head goes ahead and when I sit back to the computer, the story is way behind my imagination. It's a pain to re-create it in my head again, usually because I tend to rush...
/sadyoukaimoe.jpg
-
I'm thinking, I'm very bad at writing series, the story poped up and got longer, to the point my hands can't keep up with my mind anymore. It's much better to write one-shots, but you know what? It keeps running in my head to a 200 episodes anime. Is there anyway to stop that? I love writing, but the only way I can complete my fic is typing non-stop. If I stop for a nap, a meal, or even a leak, my head goes ahead and when I sit back to the computer, the story is way behind my imagination. It's a pain to re-create it in my head again, usually because I tend to rush...
White Rose is, at the moment, two months shy of its two-year anniversary.
Even if it's slow going because you have so much stuff you want to get to already and you're impatient with all the early stuff you have to do, go for it. The buildup is hella rewarding.
I know how you feel, though. There are some parts in White Rose I would have liked to skip with just "and then they all arrived in Hokkai after traveling a lot" or something. God, why can't I get to the fun part already?
-
Hm... so I'm back.
/gets slapped for abandonning his works
Ouch... anyways...
/gets slapped again
I'm thinking, I'm very bad at writing series, the story poped up and got longer, to the point my hands can't keep up with my mind anymore. It's much better to write one-shots, but you know what? It keeps running in my head to a 200 episodes anime. Is there anyway to stop that? I love writing, but the only way I can complete my fic is typing non-stop. If I stop for a nap, a meal, or even a leak, my head goes ahead and when I sit back to the computer, the story is way behind my imagination. It's a pain to re-create it in my head again, usually because I tend to rush...
/sadyoukaimoe.jpg
I know the feeling.
Half the reason I write the way I do, with incredibly short chapters that cover as much as possible in as few words as possible, is to get to the next part before I get bored and am no longer able to write. Although I can't binge-write like that, and I actually have to let my (very short) chapters sit a bit and alter lines so that the quality doesn't nosedive.
Though I really can't shorten my chapters any more than I already have. It's already been reduced to only the dialogue and the bare minimum needed to keep the readers up-to-date.
Personally, I would (as in, am currently attempting in my own work) write all the branching storylines. It feels like writing 6 different one-shots at the same time.
-
Yeah, I have problems working up Writing Energy myself, especially when I'm doing other stuff like Create.swf Adventures and Villainmad ...
-
So...
I can't find any fics about Rika.
She's a tank builder from one of the earlier touhou games. stage 1 boss and extra boss. I've taken an interest in the character.
Are there any fics that feature her?
If not, do you have any suggestions about ones featuring Patchouli?
-
So...
I can't find any fics about Rika.
She's a tank builder from one of the earlier touhou games. stage 1 boss and extra boss. I've taken an interest in the character.
Are there any fics that feature her?
I can't find any either, not any that I know of.
But creating a fic about her would seem like an excellent idea. Jotting down some ideas...
-
Rika plays a major role in my story later on. At the rate I'm writing I should get to her around early 2037 :3
-
Specialis Libri has a fair amount of Rika in it.
-
It would be interesting to see story reviews for some of the stuff in the bookstore, but I'm wondering about the potential drama that might arise :x
-
It would be interesting to see story reviews for some of the stuff in the bookstore, but I'm wondering about the potential drama that might arise :x
why would that generate drama
-
why would that generate drama
Because a public review stating "This story has good ideas, but terrible execution," would inevitably lead to drama. And I'm sure there's at least one story that fits this category in KGB. (Note: I don't have a story in mind when I say that. I'm just using law of averages here.)
-
why would that generate drama
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1860/1278339909849a.png
-
Because a public review stating "This story has good ideas, but terrible execution," would inevitably lead to drama. And I'm sure there's at least one story that fits this category in KGB. (Note: I don't have a story in mind when I say that. I'm just using law of averages here.)
I can't even begin to list the number of reasons that shouldn't generate drama
unless the review isn't a review so much as senseless bashing
-
It would be interesting to see story reviews for some of the stuff in the bookstore, but I'm wondering about the potential drama that might arise :x
I agree with Ryuu and second this motion, though I doubt it works that way.
Lets be frank, I need some pretty brutal reviews if I'm going to get anywhere in my stories. By brutal, I mean, I need to be criticized for having my characters make boring or uncharacteristic decisions, so that I can go back and rewrite the section of my story that is uncharacteristic, or improve a writing style that is dull, or add detail when the audience demands it.
Going through the stories, and telling authors when their stories are boring, or when the subject matter isn't very interesting, is an important part of good writing. If we can increase the quality of the writing, we should do it, as the two functions of fanfiction are to entertain readers and entertain the writers. If a fic fails at the former because the author can't get into his reader's head, then it is in all our best interest to tell the author how he is falling short so that he can improve.
-
I agree with Ryuu and second this motion, though I doubt it works that way.
Lets be frank, I need some pretty brutal reviews if I'm going to get anywhere in my stories. By brutal, I mean, I need to be criticized for having my characters make boring or uncharacteristic decisions, so that I can go back and rewrite the section of my story that is uncharacteristic, or improve a writing style that is dull, or add detail when the audience demands it.
Going through the stories, and telling authors when their stories are boring, or when the subject matter isn't very interesting, is an important part of good writing. If we can increase the quality of the writing, we should do it, as the two functions of fanfiction are to entertain readers and entertain the writers. If a fic fails at the former because the author can't get into his reader's head, then it is in all our best interest to tell the author how he is falling short so that he can improve.
I can't ^ this post hard enough
-
I agree with Ryuu and second this motion, though I doubt it works that way.
Lets be frank, I need some pretty brutal reviews if I'm going to get anywhere in my stories. By brutal, I mean, I need to be criticized for having my characters make boring or uncharacteristic decisions, so that I can go back and rewrite the section of my story that is uncharacteristic, or improve a writing style that is dull, or add detail when the audience demands it.
Going through the stories, and telling authors when their stories are boring, or when the subject matter isn't very interesting, is an important part of good writing. If we can increase the quality of the writing, we should do it, as the two functions of fanfiction are to entertain readers and entertain the writers. If a fic fails at the former because the author can't get into his reader's head, then it is in all our best interest to tell the author how he is falling short so that he can improve.
Holy crap, this to the north star and back.
I actually encourage people to come at me with this stuff. I want to get better at this, and if that means getting a brutal critique of how my shit's not good enough, then fine.
-
Geez, why did noone bring that up on the channel? I totally missed the idea of reviews in here.
Actually, there is something in that direction in planning already :3
-
Geez, why did noone bring that up on the channel? I totally missed the idea of reviews in here.
Actually, there is something in that direction in planning already :3
oh :3
-
I was wondering if someone could help me out with a story of mine? In it, my character, Savory Misori,m is on a journey to bring the power of wishes to Gensokyo.
The setting right now is Youkai Mountain, but I am having some trouble writing it in. What I'm trying to lead up to is having Savory meet Aya as well as the Moriya Gang, finally resulting in a meeting with Tenshi.
But I'm not so good at mountain environments.
-
I admit, SquidTentacle's was good.
(note: I have nothing to do with judging these stories)
SquidTentacle
It feels weird to say that my primary criticism is that it was dark. But it is fair to point out that dark stories often turn people away. And I know it was dark because it actually made me laugh. See, I can't quite cope with death very well, so I often laugh when faced with things that are morbid as a way of coping, since laughter is much easier to face than depression. So yeah, when something becomes difficult to read, regardless of quality, the fact that the audience has trouble reading it to the end will often turn them away.
Second, I note that it wasn't quite a touhou story. I mean, Orin was there, but at it's core it was a story about facing death; who was there wasn't as important, and it could have been a hallucination or anyone and still held about same impact. I mostly point that out because one of the primary advantages of this fandom is to use the unique abilities and attributes of the characters, which you did, to form a story that wouldn't be possible anywhere else.
The only possible concrete flaw I could point to is the main character's back story. All things considered, your use of logic, your presentation, heck your story as a whole was executed exactly the way it should have been, and the only things left to critique would be the story itself. It's very well written.
It's pretty good, but I do not want to say it's the best story. The reason is simple - When Sect said you wrote the best story, I mixed up yours with CS's and I thought I agreed with Sect. Then I realized that he was refering to your story, not the one about the bully. Thus, the fact that Sect thought yours was the best improved my opinion of the story I thought was yours without actually changing anything about the story. It's a psycological phenominon where people like what's popular, and while author's should take advantage of that phenominon, judges shouldn't be swayed by it.
CS - Your story is also pretty good. Though the turn-about for your bully isn't in character. In fact, your bully falls well into parody, but it's very satisfying. Keep in mind, he falls under the psychopath personality - he appears to have literally been born without a conscience, and thus, he wouldn't be able to form one at any point in the story. The ability to empathize would not ever develop in this type of person. Ironically, because your story has a concrete flaw I can point to, I have less to say because I don't have to look for things that would make your story better, or critique the story aspects of your story. Though many of the same things that applied to SquidTentacle apply to you - it's hard to read through because it's dark but not the same emotional kind of dark as squid's, and while it does get into the touhou canon faithfully it could apply to any canon.
Both:
Also, beware the OC. Some people will not read a story that starts with the OC. That is because the first thing they know about the story is that it won't be about a touhou character. It might be better to start the stories with Orin and Yukari, simply so that the reader knows it won?t be all about your OC. Once you get your readers past the first few lines, you?ll be golden, but if the first thing they knew is that it?s about someone they don?t know being a bully or dying, they may not even bother with the rest.
-
capth: maybe instead of telling people to worry about the amount of readers, you should tell them how to improve upon the stories themselves : |
nothing is wrong with having a dark story or a story with a well done OC
-
capth: maybe instead of telling people to worry about the amount of readers, you should tell them how to improve upon the stories themselves : |
nothing is wrong with having a dark story or a story with a well done OC
@ Ryuu - Honestly?
It's because my perspective is different than yours.
My perspective isn't "how good is the story" but rather "Is this a story I would have read?"
It doesn't matter how good chapter 2 is if I don't see something I want to read about by the end of chapter 1.
There are lots of people here who can judge quality on the standard of how good the witing is. I don't feel a need to judge that, because anyone here could do it and would probably do a better job than me. Rather, I do feel a need to judge whether I would have read the story at all, and whether it's a story I would want to see to the end; qualities that may have nothing to do with the quality of the writing itself.
See, I don't want to read about OC's, so I ignore any story where the first character is not from touhou to attempt to filter the content. After all, there's a lot of touhou content, so I have to make a cut-off somewhere. That's why I warn about starting with an OC - The only reason I read CS and SquidTentacle was because they were in this thread; in normal circumstances, I would not have even gotten to the part where Yukari whisks away the boy in CS's story before deciding I was done. So I feel obligated to warn the writers about the OC cutoff keeping a lot of people who would have normally enjoyed their work from even getting to the touhou part. I only mention the part about them being dark because that is another common theme that turns people away; not me personally, but it's a common turn-off.
Our writing is about two things; appealing to ourselves, and appealing to others. Especially when the thing that keeps people from enjoying a work has nothing to do with the quality of the work, the author should be warned about the pitfall so that he doesn't fall right into it.
-
Constructive criticism is made to better the writing of an author.
In no way should you let your personal biases or predispositions towards reading for pleasure get in the way of such endeavors. Furthermore, not everyone gives a shit about the kind of things you're interested in reading or disinterested in reading. If you may notice the entire point of this contest, it's to try and improve the quality of the writing of the new authors in this community.
To be frank, nobody gives a damn if you refuse to read stories with OCs in them for whatever reason.
It shouldn't get in the way of bettering someone's writing. Nothing should.
-
except you constantly referenced words like "audience" and "people"
writing is about one thing and that is telling a good story
no one cares what you like. no one cares what you want to read. it's unbelievably arrogant and smug to critique others based off of your taste. people posted in this contest for critiques from the judges and you're posting what you'd rather their story be, which is against the goddamn rules (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4846.msg239065.html#msg239065)
respectfully, stop posting critiques. especially when you have no idea what you're talking about.
-
ALL criticism is subjective, except for the absolutely most dry proofreading. There isn't even a point if we can't bring in our own tastes. And if you choose to ignore my opinions because I have different opinions than yours, then I can't complain.
Second, I am not criticizing the direction the work is going in. I'm criticizing what's already been completed, which is different than suggesting a new story altogether or suggesting a path for the story, and thus it's not against the rules. But the whole point of this thread is to review the content of the work, not to be a microsoft word grammar checker. If it's inappropriate for me to voice my opinion, then I'll stop, but I don't want any of you holding back out of coutesy when you review my work.
Now, keep in mind that I consider good writing and popularity synonymous. Even the really awful ones are good in there own way, and that's why they're popular. I firmly beleive that if penguins make your story more popular (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleul0owi4irvy5), then adding penguins to your story makes you a better author, since you know that's what they want. That's because I'm an odd person with unusual views, and you should feel no obligation to take my advice.
-
ALL criticism is subjective, except for the absolutely most dry proofreading. There isn't even a point if we can't bring in our own tastes. And if you choose to ignore my opinions because I have different opinions than yours, then I can't complain.
Second, I am not criticizing the direction the work is going in. I'm criticizing what's already been completed, which is different than suggesting a new story altogether or suggesting a path for the story, and thus it's not against the rules. But the whole point of this thread is to review the content of the work, not to be a microsoft word grammar checker. If it's inappropriate for me to voice my opinion, then I'll stop, but I don't want any of you holding back out of coutesy when you review my work.
Now, keep in mind that I consider good writing and popularity synonymous. Even the really awful ones are good in there own way, and that's why they're popular. I firmly beleive that if penguins make your story more popular (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleul0owi4irvy5), then adding penguins to your story makes you a better author, since you know that's what they want. That's because I'm an odd person with unusual views, and you should feel no obligation to take my advice.
no
please stop.
-
no
please stop.
Fine.
But please, criticize my work based off of your tastes, and absolutely not just the quality of the writing.
EDIT: I mean, how else can I tell if my ideas are stupid?
EDIT2: I admit, I'm surprised about... that as well, but if I thought something like penguins would be stupid, do you really think I would have written Shoot the Moon the way I did? I have no sense of common sense about some of these things, and I apologize.
-
Fine.
But please, criticize my work based off of your tastes, and absolutely not just the quality of the writing.
EDIT: I mean, how else can I tell if my ideas are stupid?
Because you put penguins in them?
Cap, putting things that are popular in your stories doesn't make you a good writer, it just means that you're putting things that are popular in your stories. Just because your story doesn't suit someone's tastes doesn't mean that you're a bad writer; one of the highest praises I've recieved for a story was that I managed to get the person to actually read it and enjoy, despite the fact that it was a male on male erotica piece, which that reader abhored.
EDIT: ... Of course, while I'm thinking of it, one of the less... complimentary reviews I've recieved was the fact that I actually wrote a male on male erotica piece...
-
Cap, if you want a really good counterexample to "popularity is the definition of quality," see: Twilight. (Or, better yet, don't.)
-
Capt H. Two things.
> Popularity != good writing. Just because you appeal to memes, injokes and fanservice does not mean your writing is actually any good. Here's a question - if two people were to write fanservice fiction on the same subject, how would you decide which was better? Would you favour the story with more blatant appeal to the audience, or the story with more effort to it, where the author has placed the importance of plot and logic ahead of getting quick views and responses?
> OCs are difficult to pull off, but there's no reason to avoid them entirely. People are familiar with the Touhou characters, true, but that means that there's less room for originality since the characters are laid out [unless you intend to just fly in the face of canon in which case whyyyyyyyyyy]. OCs give writers a chance to look at an angle we wouldn't see otherwise.
ALSO SECT YOU WROTE YAOI I AM DISOWNING YOU >:< (joking, before I get misinterpreted on this)
-
capt h:
you say popularity = good writing right
okay
this is the most popular fanfic ever written (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5322714/1/bMy_b_bImmortal_b)
it's spawned spinoffs, retellings, reposts, in depth analysis and is extremely famous across the internet
if this doesn't convince you that your stance might be incorrect, I don't think anything will
-
Basically what Rou said ahead of me.
I honestly don't think that being a writer means you have to completely sell yourself out to what's popular and all that mess. Writing should be done to have fun and to have creative freedom, not to adhere to how your audience sees you and your work. Writing for me in the touhou fanbase is my only safe haven from all the yuri and what not that I quite honestly can not stand. With my ability to write, I am able to create a place where I don't have to look at so much shit in one barrel alot of things I dislike and risk running my blood pressure up to areas that could literally lead to me tearing my computer apart piece by piece.
OCs are pretty much the same. Would you have been able to find a T-Rex loli running around in Gensokyo? Yeah, probably not. Would you like to see one? If yes, then a writer just might be willing to produce said T-Rex loli.
-
Basically what Rou said ahead of me.
I honestly don't think that being a writer means you have to completely sell yourself out to what's popular and all that mess. Writing should be done to have fun and to have creative freedom, not to adhere to how your audience sees you and your work. Writing for me in the touhou fanbase is my only safe haven from all the yuri and what not that I quite honestly can not stand. With my ability to write, I am able to create a place where I don't have to look at so much shit in one barrel alot of things I dislike and risk running my blood pressure up to areas that could literally lead to me tearing my computer apart piece by piece.
OCs are pretty much the same. Would you have been able to find a T-Rex loli running around in Gensokyo? Yeah, probably not. Would you like to see one? If yes, then a writer just might be willing to produce said T-Rex loli.
omg erebubbles u dont ship yuugixparsee ur an awful ritur
-
Now, keep in mind that I consider good writing and popularity synonymous. Even the really awful ones are good in there own way, and that's why they're popular. I firmly beleive that if penguins make your story more popular (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleul0owi4irvy5), then adding penguins to your story makes you a better author, since you know that's what they want. That's because I'm an odd person with unusual views, and you should feel no obligation to take my advice.
It's definitely an odd view alright, not to mention it's a completely blatantly incorrect take on so many levels...
Of course, I won't force you to change your opinion on it, but I'm just saying.
Even as someone who desperately begs for attention in all creative pursuits, I still even have the decency to acknowledge this basic reality that popularity is not directly correlated with the quality of one's work.
-
capt h:
you say popularity = good writing right
okay
this is the most popular fanfic ever written (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5322714/1/bMy_b_bImmortal_b)
it's spawned spinoffs, retellings, reposts, in depth analysis and is extremely famous across the internet
if this doesn't convince you that your stance might be incorrect, I don't think anything will
I've known about My Immortal forever.
It's popularity is the reason I don't think too much about the technical quality of the writing.
Let's get to the point - My Immortal is hilarious. It's a great read. Lots of people love reading it, including myself. It is completely successful, even though it was not a success in the way the author intended. I would love to write a fanfic as beloved as My Immortal, even if the fic is loved for all the wrong reasons. And at a technical level, it's a terrible story. However, it still manages to hit all the right notes such that it became both the best (http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=best+fanfic+ever&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) and worst (http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=best+fanfic+ever&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#hl=en&sugexp=gsih&xhr=t&q=worst+fanfic+ever&cp=2&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=0l&aqi=&aql=f&oq=wost+fanfic+ever&pbx=1&fp=b3c35be7e34d2e3f) fanfic of all time.
What you have to remember is that I didn't always think popularity = quality. I only grew into that opinion when I realized that each page view is +1 person that enjoyed my story. And as an author, I view each page view as an individual I entertained in some way. The technical side doesn't matter, because at the core, the terrible fanfic that gave more people a good time than any other fanfic ever, My Immortal, was the best at entertaining people. And I would rather entertain people than be a skilled author.
-
I opened My Immortal to search for Penguins. I used Ctrl+F and couldn't find any Penguins. Didn't read it. :C
-
I opened My Immortal to search for Penguins. I used Ctrl+F and couldn't find any Penguins. Didn't read it. :C
Can't argue with that logic.
You can't change the audience, nor is it your job. You can only try to entertain it. And you won't be able to entertain everyone. But you can aim high.
And I can't judge anyone for Ctrl+F. They're the audience. I have no right to complain about how they treat my work; they're the ones doing me the courtesy.
-
Question, Capt.
If you wrote something for yourself, with no audience to appeal to, what would you write? What could you write that would make you happy?
If you have an answer to that question, why the hell aren't you writing it?
-
Why not just strive for both? :derp:
Hey just look at Shakesphere, he wrote well yet still appealed to the masses with plenty of comedy, romance and violence.
-
What you have to remember is that I didn't always think popularity = quality. I only grew into that opinion when I realized that each page view is +1 person that enjoyed my story. And as an author, I view each page view as an individual I entertained in some way. The technical side doesn't matter, because at the core, the terrible fanfic that gave more people a good time than any other fanfic ever, My Immortal, was the best at entertaining people. And I would rather entertain people than be a skilled author.
The technical side doesn't matter, because at the core, the terrible fanfic that gave more people a good time than any other fanfic ever, My Immortal, was the best at entertaining people.
Personally, I'd rather write a piece of fiction that I enjoy reading and writing for myself before selling out my personal work for viewership reasons. Sure, I want to entertain people. But I'm also entertaining myself and trying to get my messages through in my writing, and if the readers don't like that, there are plenty of other fics out there they can read.
Would you sacrifice your art for the transient tastes of others? Are you the type of person who would make a terrible summer blockbuster that rakes in a lot of money or a niche art film that touches the hearts of the few viewers who see it? Who are you trying to entertain, and why? Who are you doing it for? What's the purpose of it all?
Viewership is important, yes. But it almost sounds like you're suggesting sacrificing technical quality and personal story direction in favor of this idea of "viewership."
Why not just strive for both?
Best answer right here. Write well, pour your own heart and mind into your work, and manage to entertain people all at the same time! I feel that as long as you create your works with personal conviction and feeling (and good quality ofc), you'll always find an audience that enjoys it.
-
Question, Capt.
If you wrote something for yourself, with no audience to appeal to, what would you write? What could you write that would make you happy?
If you have an answer to that question, why the hell aren't you writing it?
You know, that's a good question, and I had to think about that.
Well, I would probably write a first person account about despair. The villain has the narrator and is psychologically torturing them. I would run into problems keeping myself from writing the narrator as having given in, where he starts laughing hysterically, or from overpowering the villain in some way, because I would want the narrator in a state of fear and hopelessness but I couldn't stand writing him/her fearful, hopeless, and powerless. It might even include quite a bit of inappropriateness, if you know what I mean. And then I would look back and be horrified at what I've done. There would be a mental conflict between what I consciously want to happen, the hero wins and get out of the situation or at least the story skips details; and what I subconsciously want, the hero falls into the deepest pits of despair, and that despair makes me feel alive (Yes, I've been reading White Rose). The only problem is that I couldn't stomach it. I would desperately want the hero to get out, just so that it ends. I love the strong emotions it evokes in me, and yet I have trouble handling them and watching the characters in those situations greatly bothers me.
(actually, it's utter desolation, despair, hopelessness, Sophie's choices, fear, basically any psychological torture you could imagine plus death.)
A lot of my writing decisions are devoted specifically to avoid falling into my own traps. If I didn't use Mokou, or even if I made it so that she could be contained, then I would have trouble stomaching my own work.
The opposite side of that coin might be Shoot the Moon, which I did write for myself, and actually contains many chapters I haven't posted yet because I don't think they're good enough, even though they're good enough for me. It's chaos, randomness, and frankly I wouldn't want to read the unedited version myself. That's the other side of me, the one that doesn't want anything to do with the so-dark-I-upset-myself stories, the side whose stories I wouldn't be scared to have a record of on my computer.
Personally, I'd rather write a piece of fiction that I enjoy reading and writing for myself before selling out my personal work for viewership reasons. Sure, I want to entertain people. But I'm also entertaining myself and trying to get my messages through in my writing, and if the readers don't like that, there are plenty of other fics out there they can read.
Would you sacrifice your art for the transient tastes of others? Are you the type of person who would make a terrible summer blockbuster that rakes in a lot of money or a niche art film that touches the hearts of the few viewers who see it? Who are you trying to entertain, and why? Who are you doing it for? What's the purpose of it all?
Viewership is important, yes. But it almost sounds like you're suggesting sacrificing technical quality and personal story direction in favor of this idea of "viewership."
Best answer right here. Write well, pour your own heart and mind into your work, and manage to entertain people all at the same time! I feel that as long as you create your works with personal conviction and feeling (and good quality ofc), you'll always find an audience that enjoys it.
Honestly? If I were being paid, it would be 100% for the audience. If it's a summer blockbuster, the fact that I think it's terrible doesn't change the opinions of the seven million other people who saw it. And the fact that I think the niche art film is great doesn't change the tastes of the people I'm trying to entertain. If it's for money, the job is to give people what they want to pay for. Heck, I don't even believe in art anymore. That is, I believe there are popular paintings, music, etc., classical music, liturature, etc., and that all has value. But the entire concept of a thing deriving value from something other than people is something I deeply detest.
And I have nothing against going for both viewership and making a work you can be proud of yourself for at once.
If it's for free, you can post it because you want people to appreciate your work, which is arrogance, or you can try to post something other people will enjoy, which is generous. Or you can keep it to yourself.
-
I find it quite ironic that people bring up Twilight and My Immortal as examples of "writing written for popularity" when in both cases the authors wrote purely for themselves.
As Emouse would say, these things aren't mutually exclusive.
-
I find it quite ironic that people bring up Twilight and My Immortal as examples of "writing written for popularity" when in both cases the authors wrote purely for themselves.
As Emouse would say, these things aren't mutually exclusive.
I mean, there's also quality control involved (which is an entirely different beast altogether), but yes, people can write for themselves and somehow manage to be popular as well. But I think Twilight and My Immortal were being used more as examples of people writing badly (emphasis on badly) for themselves but still somehow becoming popular, though for vastly different reasons...
Edit: Unrelated to the topic, but I played your visual novel, the one with the table. I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. (Don't get me wrong though, I liked it. :P)
-
Why not just strive for both? :derp:
The fact that we're all standing around here talking about this is a testament to this statement's value.
After all, ZUN made Touhou for himself, since he wanted to create a game that he himself would like to play. He didn't make it for anybody else. And it ended up appealing to the unwashed masses anyway.
-
I mean, there's also quality control involved (which is an entirely different beast altogether), but yes, people can write for themselves and somehow manage to be popular as well. But I think Twilight and My Immortal were being used more as examples of people writing badly (emphasis on badly) for themselves but still somehow becoming popular, though for vastly different reasons...
Then I think the point is this. You guys can argue about whether or not you should strive for quality or quantity all you want, but keep in mind that it's a pointless endeavor. What is it that makes something 'good'? What is it that makes something 'popular'? There is no true definition. It's all subjective and situational. It's easy to look at something once it's done and say 'this is good' or 'this is popular', but that's only because you have other complete works to compare it with. When you're actually writing, who the hell knows?
If I make Flandre kill Marisa in a fight, does that make it good? Maybe it ties in with the whole theme of broken innocence that I'm trying to portray, so then is it good? Is it good writing to confine yourself to a single theme and write everything around it? It would give the story structure sure, but does that mean it's good? Are unstructued stories no good then?
A good story should be deep? What if I write about deep concepts that exist in everyone's lives? Does that automatically make it a good story? Do philosophy textbooks make good stories?
A good story should be well structured? Accurate? Make perfect sense? What if I write an extremely detailed and perfectly accurate with every single fact correct recount of a day in my life. Does that make it a good story? Do math and science textbook make good stories?
And then popularity, who can predict that anyways? Someone could, then I bet there are thousands of buisnesses out there willing to give them millions of dollars for thier answers. Sure it's easy to say "Oh romantic vampires sure are popular these days", but does that mean if I write a story about vampiric melodramas then I'll get more popularity then if I wrote about something supposedly unpopular like a story about mathematicians who use thier skills to help people? Do I have to confine myself to certain theme to make something popular? So does that mean something like a story about some toys thrown away by thier owner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_story_3) can't be popular?
The answer to all of the above is you dont know. No one really knows. That's why writing is an art, not a science.
Writing is about exploration. You write to learn. Learn about yourself, learn about others, learn about what exists, and learn about what doesn't. And then using what you learned you write more. Throw your prejudices out the window, kick reason to the curb, and just write. You'll never know what you'll figure out along the way. 8)
Speaking of which I don't nearly write enough myself huh :ohdear:
Edit: Unrelated to the topic, but I played your visual novel, the one with the table. I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. (Don't get me wrong though, I liked it. :P)
You can expect a lot more where that came from this summer BV
-
The answer to all of the above is you dont know. No one really knows. That's why writing is an art, not a science.
Writing is about exploration. You write to learn. Learn about yourself, learn about others, learn about what exists, and learn about what doesn't. And then using what you learned you write more. Throw your prejudices out the window, kick reason to the curb, and just write. You'll never know what you'll figure out along the way.
Basically what I was trying to say, but more elegantly and coherently. :)
-
Basically what I was trying to say, but more elegantly and coherently. :)
It comes with experience BV BV BV
-
Then I think the point is this. You guys can argue about whether or not you should strive for quality or quantity all you want, but keep in mind that it's a pointless endeavor. What is it that makes something 'good'? What is it that makes something 'popular'? There is no true definition. It's all subjective and situational. It's easy to look at something once it's done and say 'this is good' or 'this is popular', but that's only because you have other complete works to compare it with. When you're actually writing, who the hell knows?
If I make Flandre kill Marisa in a fight, does that make it good? Maybe it ties in with the whole theme of broken innocence that I'm trying to portray, so then is it good? Is it good writing to confine yourself to a single theme and write everything around it? It would give the story structure sure, but does that mean it's good? Are unstructued stories no good then?
A good story should be deep? What if I write about deep concepts that exist in everyone's lives? Does that automatically make it a good story? Do philosophy textbooks make good stories?
A good story should be well structured? Accurate? Make perfect sense? What if I write an extremely detailed and perfectly accurate with every single fact correct recount of a day in my life. Does that make it a good story? Do math and science textbook make good stories?
And then popularity, who can predict that anyways? Someone could, then I bet there are thousands of buisnesses out there willing to give them millions of dollars for thier answers. Sure it's easy to say "Oh romantic vampires sure are popular these days", but does that mean if I write a story about vampiric melodramas then I'll get more popularity then if I wrote about something supposedly unpopular like a story about mathematicians who use thier skills to help people? Do I have to confine myself to certain theme to make something popular? So does that mean something like a story about some toys thrown away by thier owner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_story_3) can't be popular?
The answer to all of the above is you dont know. No one really knows. That's why writing is an art, not a science.
Writing is about exploration. You write to learn. Learn about yourself, learn about others, learn about what exists, and learn about what doesn't. And then using what you learned you write more. Throw your prejudices out the window, kick reason to the curb, and just write. You'll never know what you'll figure out along the way. 8)
Speaking of which I don't nearly write enough myself huh :ohdear:
You can expect a lot more where that came from this summer BV
You know, I'm not an artist. I can't write "art" at all. In fact, I think of the whole world simply running on a complex set of rules, and while you can't know all the rules, you can know enough of them to succeed. A lack of flexibility has caused me problems before, and I get science a lot better. So every once in a while the things I would get if I had an intuition escape my notice because they aren't within my ruleset yet. Writing is a new field for me, so I don't have many of the rules laid out yet.
I usually treat everything as being run on some type of ruleset. General norms of behavior, personality types, how people will act in a given situation, etc. I'd have trouble kicking reason to the curb, although my readers say otherwise. Though I probably need more experience.
I didn't know you wrote a visual novel. What's it about, what's it called, and where can I see it?
-
You know, I'm not an artist. I can't write "art" at all. In fact, I think of the whole world simply running on a complex set of rules, and while you can't know all the rules, you can know enough of them to succeed. A lack of flexibility has caused me problems before, and I get science a lot better. So every once in a while the things I would get if I had an intuition escape my notice because they aren't within my ruleset yet. Writing is a new field for me, so I don't have many of the rules laid out yet.
I usually treat everything as being run on some type of ruleset. General norms of behavior, personality types, how people will act in a given situation, etc. I'd have trouble kicking reason to the curb, although my readers say otherwise. Though I probably need more experience.
Actually I agree for the most part. I also think that there a rule or set of rules, which could be either complex or simple, that govern this ever complex world of ours. The thing is looking from the outside, it's WAY too complex. Think about it like this. Ever seen a Mandlebrot set (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set)? The rules for making one is super easy; take a number, square it, add a constant, repeat, but the result is a graph so complex that we can't even figure out what happens if we tried zooming in infinitely. If you just looked at the graph itself and tried to logically deduce how it was made, can you image how difficult that would be? You can form a billion theories of how certain parts look similar to others and how you get specific shapes by zooming in a certain amounts but how do you get from there to that simple formula that actually makes the set?
It's the same with life. We know so many things about people and life but that's only information gathered looking from the outside. We know so much and yet we can't even figure out how living things came to be in the first place. We don't know the truth. We don't have a solid logical basis when it comes to people, like we do for math. So that's why we have to fill in the gaps ourselves. We try to deduce the basis on our own using our own experiences and ways of thinking. What we come up with may or may not be true, but what is true is that fact that we came up with it. And what is to say if that conclusion in and of itself has value or not?
Art isn't something different from science, it's just a different perspective. Art and science actually look at the same things, but from different angles, and that can make all the difference.
I didn't know you wrote a visual novel. What's it about, what's it called, and where can I see it?
Ironically enough I didn't write it. Tengukami/Amaterasu :V
You can find it in the Fanworks Listing but I'll link it here for you: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5728.0.html
-
I find it quite ironic that people bring up Twilight and My Immortal as examples of "writing written for popularity" when in both cases the authors wrote purely for themselves.
actually I brought up my immortal because capt h said
Now, keep in mind that I consider good writing and popularity synonymous.
which has nothing to do whether or not my immortal was written for the author or the readers but the fact that it's a steaming pile of trash that happens to be entertaining
-
I wrote a story a while back
- It was for an english assignment
- It isn't touhou related
- It's very hammy
- it is 5.6k words long (31,000 ch) and takes 13 pages on a Word document
Would I be allowed to post it?
-
@ Sukima - I started that visual novel.
It's... interesting to put it nicely. To put it not so nicely - there really needed to be a warning.
-
Oi,
Down On The Corner - Visual Novel edition! NSFW!
Yeah.
-
Oi,
Yeah.
This is why you read the label :derp:
-
Didn't notice the label.
-
It says "Please note that this story is NSFW" right below the download links. :V
-
<.< >.>
Alright this seems like a good place for it.
I'm going to mention one thing that appeared a lot in the New Writers contest. And a lot in new fanfiction in general. Unattended dialogue.
A lot of people moving into fiction writing, espcially those coming from comics, movies, tv or games, seem to write in a script format. Dialogue is left ownerless. The people speaking are mentioned once at the start and they talk back and forth. This is especially common during a string of one liners or simple banter. It's written out just like the scene in your head, with the two characters speaking to each other.
This is the exact opposite of what you should do.
Your readers will never have the same view of a scene as you do, and they need reference points, even if their mind glazes over them. Otherwise things get jumbled up in their heads and they have to slow down to read the work instead of visualize your scene.
Sentences should almost always indicate who the speaker is. Even if it just indicates things by context. If the speaker ever changes, the fic should indicate that immediately. And if the speakers change in rapid succession you NEED to tell the readers who is talking in each line. Otherwise confusion will reign.
Now like all stylistic rules you can ignore this sometimes. But it's usually only safe to do that with a long body of text, that allows you to emphasize who is speaking with unique dialogue. And you should still be careful there.
Take a look at some fiction works you'd like to be able to write like. See how they do it. I'm reading through a book right now as I write this, and I see several time that the writer doesn't announce a switch, but it's always clear, because she only does it rarely and at well defined points. Details like this can advance your writing a lot.
But if you just want a hard and fast rule? Never give a line of dialogue without referencing a character.
-
"Is it time yet?"
"Yeah it's almost ready"
"This is going to be big isn't it?"
"Haven't you heard?"
"What?"
"There's going to b*shot*
-
You know, at the time I was doing that dialogue thing you said not to do deliberately. I thought it was a bad idea to announce the speakers after every. single. line.
Whoops.
-
You know, at the time I was doing that dialogue thing you said not to do deliberately. I thought it was a bad idea to announce the speakers after every. single. line.
Whoops.
doing he said she said he said she said over and over will get annoying
imo it's better to do things like
"blah blah blah" dude said as he stared intently out the window
"but nyah nyah nyah blah!" chick screamed in retort
"....blah." dude slammed his hand down in frustration.
you don't have to say said or screamed or whispered all the time, but you can use body language to add substance to the scene and make it easy to follow who is saying what
-
you don't have to say said or screamed or whispered all the time, but you can use body language to add substance to the scene and make it easy to follow who is saying what
I do this sometimes, because I honestly get fed up with 'said' and all that shit.
But if I can't think of the right word I just leave if blank like above :V
-
I'd still rather see he said she said then not have any idea who's talking. I've seen writers do the speech with no context thing with more then two characters having a conversation too. It's bad enough when you can, if you have to, trace back to the start of the conversation and work out who is who. That said, I think there is something to be said for he said she said. Obviously incorporating physical cues etc. into your writing is preferable but if you want to produce a quickest dialogue with the focus being on what is being said then using he said/she said is a nice, easy to ignore contextual cue so the reader can keep track of who's saying what without it interfearing to much in the pace of the conversation.
-
You can easily do dialogue without saing "he said" or even anything at all, but there does need to be a clear indicator of who's talking: if you do a paragraph where it's only dialogue, the next line should have an indicator of who's talking.
I'm going to use an example from the book "Mass Effect: Ascension" by Drew Karpyshyn (page 116).
"When will he come to see me?"
"Soon," Kahlee promised. "I'll tell him you're waiting."
Gillian smiled. "You like Hendel."
"He's a good friend."
The girl's smile broadened even further. "Will you two get married some day?"
Kahlee laughed in spite of herself. "I don't think Hendel wants to get married."
Gillian's smile slipped, but didn't disappear completely. "He should marry you," she insisted, matter-of-factly. "You're nice."
The dialogue was easy to follow, even though there were lines where no speaker was indicated, and the word "said" wasn't used at all. You can easily get a feel for how each character was speaking or the tones they were using by the descriptors used.
-
I've actually read a couple of places that "said" is generally the best bet from the reader's perspective, since it really isn't all that noticeable. Yes, you-the-author might notice it, but the readers really won't. If you can combine it with other actions, so much the better.
You can also do away with it by combining it with an action, like this quote from a random page of Feet of Clay by Terry Pratchett:
The Patrician stirred, and looked at Cheery through watery red eyes. "Tell me, young man, are you a policeman?"
But in general, "said" is preferable.
-
I went back to practice some Imperishable Night spellcards.
If you've read anything of mine, then it should be obviously that Mokou is my favorite character. But I like canon (in game, not SSiB or PMiSS) Mokou a lot better than most interpretations.
By that I mean, not angry, not a tsundere, not in love with Keine, Kaguya, or Mystia, not angsty, and not psychotic; just a normal, pleasant person who happens to be immortal and chills even in a battle against Yukari.
I've never seen that interpretation. Not once, in any story. Any thoughts on where I might find it?
-
Well, since PMiSS is supposed to be canon (regardless of what you think of SSiB) ... well, I'm not sure what to tell you, really.
-
I wouldn't know. Most of the stories I've read have Mokou characterized as one of those things (usually the token, angry loner), as it seems to be generally accepted among writers and fans that Mokou is an angry butch. I remember reading on Pooshlmer of a Mokou Bad End story (from Touhoh Love Stories: The Bad Ends), that didn't really follow this route for Mokou and, from what I remember is the closest I can think of that fits this 'chill!Mokou' you mentioned. Even if she did hold this constant distance from the MC.
-
By that I mean, not angry, not a tsundere, not in love with Keine, Kaguya, or Mystia, not angsty, and not psychotic; just a normal, pleasant person who happens to be immortal and chills even in a battle against Yukari.
I've never seen that interpretation. Not once, in any story. Any thoughts on where I might find it?
In mine. Just that I didn't write it in English.
I'd say she is more or less a girl that lost care in the world. She lives without any trouble or serious feelings, much like a college high school that already had a job. I like writing Mokou as a "cool" friend to everyone. In the fic she long forgot about loneliness, hatred and other negative feelings, and she treats Kaguya as someone she can most openedly talk to (It's funny to talk in buddy manner where shit language involved to a princess, you know?). Of course sometimes they fight over trivial things, but after rip other's heads off they laugh and go back to Eientei to have a tea.
-
When I asked, I might not have been thinking totally straight about characterization (it was 2 AM when I posted). The thing is that a picture is worth a thousand words, and her profile picture has a dissonance with her common interpretations.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/thumb/3/3e/Mokou.png/200px-Mokou.png
Regardless of previous angst, anger, etc. it looks to me that Mokou is supposed to be a "chill" character. Any stories that follow that route?
In mine. Just that I didn't write it in English.
I'd say she is more or less a girl that lost care in the world. She lives without any trouble or serious feelings, much like a college high school that already had a job. I like writing Mokou as a "cool" friend to everyone. In the fic she long forgot about loneliness, hatred and other negative feelings, and she treats Kaguya as someone she can most openedly talk to (It's funny to talk in buddy manner where shit language involved to a princess, you know?). Of course sometimes they fight over trivial things, but after rip other's heads off they laugh and go back to Eientei to have a tea.
Well that's a pity. I can't read non-English. If you know where I could find a mediocre translator (google doesn't seem to like Japanese) and provided a link, I'd read it.
EDIT: I don't think I'd ever stick to one interpretation of any character I find interesting like that. At the very least, the one interpretation would have to be insanely deep. I'd want to write psycho Flandre and innocent little girl Flandre, psycho Mokou and cool-headed Mokou, evil manipulator Satori and pitiable, hated Satori, air-headed Okuu and mad genius of nuclear fusion Utsuho, etc. Half the fun is writing all the interpretations at the same time. Though Mokou especially has a baggage issue - stories usually pertain to interactions with others and the character's activities (which makes Patchouli stories rare since she never leaves the library), and Mokou especially is defined only through her quest for vengeance against/battles with/mild irritation towards Kaguya and her suspiciously close/incredibly exaggerated friendship with Keine.
-
don't use the wikia wiki
use this (http://www.touhouwiki.net)
-
Patchouli stories rare since she never leaves the library.
You can have characters come to her, that's what I did with a (cancelled) Patchouli story I was writing and it looked okay with me (granted the main cast consisted only of Patchy, Koakuma, and Belial a demon summoned to guard the deepest reaches of the library). You're main focus doens't have to go anywhere to interact with people, especially if there are people who live close by with them.
-
Well that's a pity. I can't read non-English. If you know where I could find a mediocre translator (google doesn't seem to like Japanese) and provided a link, I'd read it.
That fic was in Vietnamese so you'll probably never read it. I used a lot of Vietnamese ref in there so don't wanna translate it either :) But I'll think about writing another one.
Patchouli stories rare since she never leaves the library.
True, but it doesn't mean she won't have interesting stories to share :D An idea just popped up in my head...
Another peaceful day... I'm sitting on my chair reading a book, as usual. Koakuma is rearranging the books somewhere, but still managed to pour me a delicious cup of tea. Everyone said I'm a shut-in, but well, I don't care. Reading books is fun, just flip a page and everything will appear in my hands. History, Science, Myths, even stories that most people don't know about.
I'm the type that can't stop reading, and try to find out everything possible from a single sentence. And I love to dream of myself being in the book's world. Of course, sometimes I read a book that doesn't quite fit my taste, but I keep reading anyway. Like right now, I'm holding the "Famous Haunted Stories Collection". Heh, people outside is still scared of ghosts. What is this, Robert the Doll? He's clearly possessed by some youkai, and people made such a fuss. Also, I think I saw a big doll in the storage too. Remi said she's too old for it and Flan will just break it anyway. Haha, maybe after the years it will be lonely and become alive too. Just think about it, the doll will slowly stand up in the dark, sneakily open the storage's door, walk out the hallway to find his "master". Remilia wouldn't like that haha.
As if it can be true, idiot. This is the Scarlet Devil Mansion, no soul can be that foolish to haunted us...
"Click."
Hm?
Silence. Did I imagine it?
"Click."
"Koakuma?"
No respond. Strange, she should answer me. The silence covers the huge, candle-lit library. My ears start to hear the constant "u-u-" sound.
"Koakuma, come here."
Maybe she went upstairs to fix my supper? Anyway, what am I scaring about? Stupid head, stop thinking about those haunted stuffs.
"Click."
"WHO?"
I made a small fire ball, ready to shoot it a wherever that sound came from.
Silence... Bu I can vaguely feel it... there is SOMETHING walked into the library.
... something like that :D Nothing is impossible if you have a good imagination.
-
That fic was in Vietnamese so you'll probably never read it. I used a lot of Vietnamese ref in there so don't wanna translate it either :) But I'll think about writing another one.True, but it doesn't mean she won't have interesting stories to share :D An idea just popped up in my head...
... something like that :D Nothing is impossible if you have a good imagination.
I mentioned Patchouli off-hand because she's a character who, under normal circumstances, should have more material devoted to her, not because of any difficulty in writing the actual story. She's near the top of the popularity polls. Being a fan of Patchy, I kind of wish there was more to read about her, but since she's always in the library she's not a very common main character.
Back to the point about Mokou being a cool-headed character, check out the GoM picture for her; it's insane.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:GoMIllus-Mokou.jpg
-
Please continue to use en.touhouwiki.net, NOT Wikia. Here's the link. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:GoMIllus-Mokou.jpg)
-
Please continue to use en.touhouwiki.net, NOT Wikia. Here's the link. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:GoMIllus-Mokou.jpg)
I would if I could, but you just linked me to a 403 error.
-
Yeah, they're moving things around. This is the correct one. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Mokou.png)
Still change your bookmarks. That old wiki is becoming more and more out of date every day.
-
1. Copy link
2. Paste link
-
Yeah, they're moving things around. This is the correct one. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Mokou.png)
Still change your bookmarks. That old wiki is becoming more and more out of date every day.
That link is also returning a 403 error. EDIT: And the link from my previous post, which was working a few days ago, is now returning a 403 error. It doesn't appear possible to link to images on touhouwiki.net at this time.
-
I've never seen that interpretation. Not once, in any story. Any thoughts on where I might find it?
I can't tell if my interpretation of her in my main story lives up to that one....
checked, I went with the angst... (I couldn't really resist using it. It seemed to fit the current situation at the time)
The second encounter caused her to be a little more sociable... but not by much...
EDIT: Checked the second encounter and she was more helpful.
-
That link is also returning a 403 error. EDIT: And the link from my previous post, which was working a few days ago, is now returning a 403 error. It doesn't appear possible to link to images on touhouwiki.net at this time.
Can't replicate it, sorry. Those links both work fine to me.
Try this one? http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/3/3e/Mokou.png
-
Can't replicate it, sorry. Those links both work fine to me.
Try this one? http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/3/3e/Mokou.png
That's not working either. Not in Firefox or Internet Explorer on a Windows 7 computer. I'd report it, but I really don't know who to report it to.
If you're using a different browser or a Mac, that could be it, but otherwise there is something very wrong with the links to the images on touhouwiki.net.
It's a 403 error, and it says I don't have permission to access it on this server. But I shouldn't need permission to access publically available files.
-
The image sometimes doesn't show when I follow the link directly or hotlink the image, but if I copy and paste or refresh the page a few times the image usually shows up. Server stress?
-
More like linking issues, the danbooru-kind...
-
That's probably it then.
-
Try refreshing the page once you click on the link. As in, click on the address bar and press enter (F5 doesn't do it).
That works. It's definitely not working correctly if I have to do that, and I'd report it if I knew where, but that solution works for the meantime.
Anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words, and this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/e/e5/GoMIllus-Mokou.jpg) picture from GoM along with her IN profile picture made me realize that Mokou is a surprisingly relaxed character. Definitely not a social one, but insanely relaxed in battle. Do we have any stories to match that interpretation?
-
I have been notified of this issue, and will be working to resolve this.
EDIT: The issue has been resolved. Thank you for your patience. =)
-
Hooray!
-
Good, images are back up.
I always follow several rules whenever I work on anything.
1. Never introduce original characters.
If an original character is introduced, it is to support the main character's story while remaining unimportant and possibly nameless.
(EDIT: this rule is for fanfics ONLY, not original works. This is because I'm only interested in fanfics for the characters from the original works, and much like I have no interest in the original characters of others when looking for works about Yuuka, I don't expect anyone to have an interest in my original characters.)
2. Never use the spell card rules in a confrontation.
Nobody, especially me, wants to read about pretty spellcard patterns that they can't see. They probably want to read about how a manipulator of fate uses her skill to take out a creator of history, or about how an immortal uses her inability to die to counter someone who can break anything with a flick of the wrist. I can't justify writing the PG visually (if there were visuals in writing) flashy version, nor am I interested in it. I am curious though about what would happen if the touhou abilities were let fully loose, as that question is unresolved. So I always ignore the spellcard rules to get the matchups I have an interest in.
I have other rules as well, but those are my top two.
What rules do you guys follow when writing?
-
What rules do you guys follow when writing?
I don't assume that things that apply to me apply to everyone and make sweeping generalizations
I don't assume that what I'm interested in is what everyone is interested in
I don't assume that people are even interested in what I'm interested in
I don't talk about my methodology like it's truth
-
1. Never introduce original characters.
This seems to be contradicted by
If an original character is introduced, it is to support the main character's story while remaining unimportant and possibly nameless.
Additionally,
2. Never use the spell card rules in a confrontation.
Nobody, especially me, wants to read about pretty spellcard patterns that they can't see. They probably want to read about how a manipulator of fate uses her skill to take out a creator of history, or about how an immortal uses her inability to die to counter someone who can break anything with a flick of the wrist. I can't justify writing the PG visually (if there were visuals in writing) flashy version, nor am I interested in it. I am curious though about what would happen if the touhou abilities were let fully loose, as that question is unresolved. So I always ignore the spellcard rules to get the matchups I have an interest in.
is a ridiculous rule. For one thing, spellcards are one of the foundations of Touhou in general. They were created by Reimu to lower the mortality rate of Gensokyo and create something resembling a balance between humans and youkai. Remove spellcards and you remove a good chunk of the beauty and attractiveness of Touhou.
If you have trouble describing spellcards, practice. Describe simple ones like Heaven and Hell Meltdown, or Mercury Poison, or Moonlight Ray. Then work your way up to more complicated ones. But don't just remove them altogether.
As for my own rules, I find that everything is taken care of if I make a concerted effort to become the character(s) I'm writing about. Like method acting, but with multiple characters. It's not easy, but the results are apparently acceptable.
-
They were created by Reimu to lower the mortality rate of Gensokyo and create something resembling a balance between humans and youkai.
That's exactly why I never use spell card rules. Sky high mortality rates where the only resolution lies in the power to alter reality at will, where the balance of power is lost and the country is in chaos, sounds amazing.
-
What rules do you guys follow when writing?
1. Only write what I would like to read.
2. Don't think too hard about it; just flow with the ideas.
3. When actually writing chapters, don't second guess myself as I write; if I write it one way, leave it that way.
4. It pays to proofread at least three times; I never seem to get everything with only one or two times.
5. Make it fun; writing needs to be as entertaining to me as it is to those I'm writing for.
Yeah, that about sums up the major ones. OC focus is bothersome, but not completely bad, and I personally love reading written descriptions of danmaku and spell cards, and am trying to learn how to do the same myself.
-
1. Only write what I would like to read.
2. Don't think too hard about it; just flow with the ideas.
3. When actually writing chapters, don't second guess myself as I write; if I write it one way, leave it that way.
4. It pays to proofread at least three times; I never seem to get everything with only one or two times.
5. Make it fun; writing needs to be as entertaining to me as it is to those I'm writing for.
Yeah, that about sums up the major ones. OC focus is bothersome, but not completely bad, and I personally love reading written descriptions of danmaku and spell cards, and am trying to learn how to do the same myself.
I think you should also note that you should use paragraphs when needed. As in, Not a paragraph EVERY OTHER SENTENCE, or everything clumped together in one big paragraph.
-
I think you should also note that you should use paragraphs when needed. As in, Not a paragraph EVERY OTHER SENTENCE, or everything clumped together in one big paragraph.
Well, I don't know if I can abide that completely... I dislike the artificial visual lengthening that it gives to use single lines... Paragraphs feel more right to me, and I can't bring myself to break a paragraph in half or less if I can help it.
And trying to do that would probably have me breaking my third rule!
-
as long as you lot remember to start a new paragraph whenever a new character is speaking tee hee hee
-
What rules do you guys follow when writing?
Don't go to anything distracting when writing is serious business.
Be loose. Be free. be creative.
Have fun.
Uhm...that's about it.
-
My main rule is to not give just one character preferential favor. I mean it's boring to have just one character on screen all the time and for them to win every confrontation.
Kind of related to that, my second rule is to allow a max of six in the main "party." And have at least three of them to be static. That way people and myself won't get bored. And having more than six would make things crowded. Using M4 as an example, the main party is Marisa, Alice, Meiling, Tewi, and Ichirin with a rotating sixth spot.
A fun rule, have at least one "Boke And Tsukkomi Routine" per arc. Try to have it before the boss fight or things get to serious.
-
What rules do you guys follow when writing?
1. Enjoy yourself while writing.
2. Detail is important, though it could depend on situations.
3. Sound like you're telling a story instead of rambling on.
4. Introductions should include description and detail to provide a clear image in the readers head.
5. If little to no one is replying about your work, keep writing it.
6. Don't work too hard at it, you may exhaust yourself.
7. There is no such thing as a bad story idea.
8. Plan a decent amount of the story ahead of time.
9. Format appropriately so that the text is actually readable.
10. Update stories with at least a good amount of it for the reader to read.
11. When using quotes, make sure the reader knows who is saying what.
12. Play around with personalities. It's interesting to see characters with something off the scale or not commonly seen.
13. ......................
14. Be careful with punctuation.
That's it I think.
-
I've been toying with an idea for a format for a (textual) story. I was thinking of MS Paint Adventures, and how nowadays it's pretty much just releasing a few comic-panels-with-captions a day, and I thought: why couldn't you do that with just prose? So I was thinking of a story which was released in ... bite-sized chunks of only a few pages at a time, rather than entire "chapters," and this could result (if you kept on a schedule) in a higher output with less ... indiviudal effort, I guess you could say. Wonder how well it would work.
-
I've been toying with an idea for a format for a (textual) story. I was thinking of MS Paint Adventures, and how nowadays it's pretty much just releasing a few comic-panels-with-captions a day, and I thought: why couldn't you do that with just prose? So I was thinking of a story which was released in ... bite-sized chunks of only a few pages at a time, rather than entire "chapters," and this could result (if you kept on a schedule) in a higher output with less ... indiviudal effort, I guess you could say. Wonder how well it would work.
That kind of already happens. (http://touhou-project.com/gensokyo/) The only thing I don't like about it is that almost none of the main characters are from canon - you never see the world from the point of view of Mokou or Yuuka or Flandre.
-
you never see the world from the point of view of Mokou or Yuuka or Flandre.
umm maybe you should read one of the billion mokou/flandre centric doujin
-
Or the canon Mokou short.
-
Or the canon Mokou short.
Oh Cage in Lunatic Rangate. No one reads you.
*sighs*
-
I was refering specifically to the stories on the website http://touhou-project.com/gensokyo/.
EDIT: Iced - Isn't the translation for Cage in Lunatic Renegade only completed through chapter 6?
-
EDIT: Iced - Isn't the translation for Cage in Lunatic Renegade only completed through chapter 6?
Yes, but since Mokou is Chapter 4....
-
That kind of already happens. (http://touhou-project.com/gensokyo/) The only thing I don't like about it is that almost none of the main characters are from canon - you never see the world from the point of view of Mokou or Yuuka or Flandre.
I didn't mean an actual audience-driven story, I meant just, y'know, prose. And it'd be on my site. ;P
-
You know, if you're talking about updating a story daily, then I tried that in Shoot the Moon. Worked great until I ran out of energy, and I had a lot more energy working on it than I ever did for any of my other projects due to the constant feedback. I actually think it's a great way to write. As I reader, I might only check in on your story weekly due to personally liking larger chunks, but as a writer it works great; the readers were very helpful in suggesting good directions for the story, and my readers loved that story. The only problem I had is that I'm an inherently low-energy writer that works in waves and has trouble completing anything, and I slumped a mere 30 or so entries/days in.
-
You know, if you're talking about updating a story daily, then I tried that in Shoot the Moon. Worked great until I ran out of energy, and I had a lot more energy working on it than I ever did for any of my other projects due to the constant feedback. I actually think it's a great way to write. As I reader, I might only check in on your story weekly due to personally liking larger chunks, but as a writer it works great; the readers were very helpful in suggesting good directions for the story, and my readers loved that story. The only problem I had is that I'm an inherently low-energy writer that works in waves and has trouble completing anything, and I slumped a mere 30 or so entries/days in.
This happens to me often.
Every story I've written so far have periods of where I slump on my work, most of them had fallen prey to be ended abruptly because my interest waned.
-
That kind of already happens. (http://touhou-project.com/gensokyo/) The only thing I don't like about it is that almost none of the main characters are from canon - you never see the world from the point of view of Mokou or Yuuka or Flandre.
That's because the staple of the stories on TH-P are to use a VN protag, which is usually a faceless male, and take it from his point of view. That and being either of those aforementioned characters would sorta kill some of the difficulty. The way I see it, when you're a VN protag, you're pretty much playing on Hard mode right there, anything can kill you, you have to walk on eggshells the first half of the game to not die or get royally screwed over, and watch out for certain characters being they too can fuck your life and your chance at a good end (sometimes even might just flat out bad end you, depending on the writer). If you're a Touhou half of that stuff is chucked out the window but, also grants some extra freedom being you can survive half the crap the writers throw at you.
There are stories with there from a Touhou's prespective though. I've read one that was hinted to be Kogasa's pov.
-
Kay. I think that when I have a little less on my plate (*cough*CSA*cough*), I'll try it with this little EX-Rumia backstory kinda thing I've been meaning to do something with. (I'll still work on i.e. Different Story of an Eastern Wonderland and the like, but ...)
-
For the most part, yeah, a handful of the writers here have already tried to adopt the 'update each day' approach to their stories, but that takes a lot of foresight and planning to pull off well. If you're ab-libbing it, you run the risk of coming up against a scene where you're REALLY not sure how the characters would play it out, and you get stuck, and run up on your self-imposed deadline.
Probably, in my opinion, the best way to do this is to have the entire story and all the little scenes involved therein fully planned out ahead of time, and knowing exactly how each conversation will turn out before they start. Then, when you get to those specific points, you take a little extra liberty in crafting the exact conversation itself.
-
For the most part, yeah, a handful of the writers here have already tried to adopt the 'update each day' approach to their stories, but that takes a lot of foresight and planning to pull off well. If you're ab-libbing it, you run the risk of coming up against a scene where you're REALLY not sure how the characters would play it out, and you get stuck, and run up on your self-imposed deadline.
Probably, in my opinion, the best way to do this is to have the entire story and all the little scenes involved therein fully planned out ahead of time, and knowing exactly how each conversation will turn out before they start. Then, when you get to those specific points, you take a little extra liberty in crafting the exact conversation itself.
He means the ENTIRE story. Not just a general idea. That might not be practical if your story explodes.
The problem is the "middle" part. I knew exactly how "Shoot the Moon" would end from the beginning of the story. But then I started writing my story, and I realized that there was a huge amount between point A and point B that I didn't think about. It never occured to me that I would still be on day 5 an entire 40 pages into my word document. And this is even with about 15 posts/chapters future chapters already written.
Incidentally, I never formalized the daily updates, which allowed me to write in Kogasa and Nue when I actually had an idea of how the two would act. Had I not waited, they would have been much less interesting characters. The audience will often let you me know what its expectations are, which can be even better than the direction you were I was planning although it can derail an entire outline. You want I wanted to be flexible enough to incorperate the wisdom of the audience although I did it a the cost of maintaining daily updates.
I started to implement a timer in my story to avoid plot holes. It might not be necessary to include a timer in the content of the story, but it is an extremely good idea to know when all the events are happening in relation to eachother (this may be more true of complicated stories than daily update stories).
I found it essential to write several chapters ahead, and have posts in reserve. I also found it necessary to choose a story I would absolutely always return to, even if I were to take a few weeks off. I selected my story after contemplating it for nearly a month, so I knew it had some staying power with me. The story you pick should be a story you absolutely will want to tell even six months from now.
-
Oh, I know, that's always a risk. There's a similar dynamic going on with Create.swf Adventures, actually; admittedly, in the latter case there's more direct audience-participation, but even then I've run into "slumps" once or twice when I was at point A and didn't know exactly how to get to point B. (As an aside, while I've had to miss CSA updates a few times, it's never been specifically because of not knowing what to do.) I know it isn't really the same thing, but the principle is similar.
-
Hey, how do you all deal with character's 'voices'? One of the complaints I've gotten before is that when I write dialogue the characters sound like me and I think I'm running into that problem again. Does anyone else have this problem? Or do you even worry about it at all?
-
A good exercise for learning how to do voices is you pick a character that you, personally, have absolutely nothing in common with. You might even loathe this character, but it's not necessary. The important thing is picking a character very unlike yourself. Then you put yourself inside them - what shaped this person, how do they look at the others around them, what's important to them, what do they love, fear, need? Try really being that character that's so different from you, and getting the voice right. Much like multiple runs on Hard will make Normal seem easier, doing this will make adopting distinct voices for the characters you can relate to that much easier.
-
I usually don't worry about it. The minute I do, I start fucking up.
The most I do is I think of what that character would say or how they would react to come up with good dialouge for them.
-
For me, it helps to actually imagine what the conversation would sound like - not just what they're saying, but what they're saying, in their own voices.
Then again, coming from a guy with 'SFX' as his handle, you can only expect me to think in audio terms. I've gone through and paired up a bunch of expected voices to the various characters by linking them with voice actors/actresses or characters in TV shows, and in a lot of cases, applying that characters' personality to the Touhou in question. From that point, I cross the two ingredients over.
Lets say, for example, that I'm using the English VA of Major Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell for Yukari. Kusanagi is typically 'all business', but she has been known to crack a good joke every now and again, especially at the expense of her second-in-command. This personality links up with my interpretation of Yukari pretty well; very serious when it comes to safe-guarding Gensokyo's stability, but not without a sense of humor. If I need her to have a conversation with (for some reason) Mokou, who I've tagged the VA for C.C. from Code Geass (for this example, at least), I would imagine how the conversation from those two personalities would go, but talking about whatever the plot demands of them for my story. From there, I get the word structure for their dialogue, and the personalities from the parent-voices bleeds through and is subtly tweaked by my interpretation of the Touhou in question.
-
I've been wondering if logical scientific principles can be brought to touhou. Can magic in touhou be treated the same way Full Metal Alchemist treats alchemy? - Spells run on mathematic precepts that are discrete, but not directly known to the audience. You know what happened and how the chemistry was manipulated (the character manipulated the oxygen molecules in the air and created a spark to cast a flame, for example) but perhaps not the underlining mechanics.
I'm wondering if that would work in a story, or if it would fall apart due to the sheer impossibility of some of the abilities.
-
I've been wondering if logical scientific principles can be brought to touhou.
Yes and No.
Scientific principles can be brought to anything. After all science is studying how things work. If uttering 10 specific words and tossing a ball of sulfer makes a fireball every single time, then that's science even if it doesn't match real world science.
However SSiB and Grimoire have specifically stated that results in Gensoukyo are based on belief and faith, and are thus not reproducible. In short a spell works because the caster thinks is should work and not because of any merits of the rituals used. So science as a field is kinda useless. Experiments that only work for you can gather some great technobable, but that's only good for making your magical style more prevalent, not figuring out how the world works.
-
Well alchemy was used back in the Middle Ages and before then, when people started to discover the use of minerals and such. There's a theory that the concept of magic came from alchemy uses. The user would have to know a wide variety of minerals, but their knowledge about some of the minerals would be limited unless they had tested their use before.
If the time period is set around the time when alchemy was actually being put to use in creating specific objects, plating, and grinding lenses, then it's entirely possible for the user to have access to the minerals as there were many.
Fire can easily be created, as so can incense and other smells from the minerals being used. Chemical reactions in alchemy are pretty much contained when being done. So creating chemical reactions and using it out of the air may be a little preposterous. It's cool and all, but not entirely possible.
That's my input.
The above statement was because I misinterpreted the question. But alchemy in Touhou is entirely possible.
Scientific and mathematical concepts could be applied to Touhou i.e. speeds and velocities of danmaku and their paths. But doing so would require incredibly precise calculations and things that are beyond normal physics.
-
Yes and No.
Scientific principles can be brought to anything. After all science is studying how things work. If uttering 10 specific words and tossing a ball of sulfer makes a fireball every single time, then that's science even if it doesn't match real world science.
However SSiB and Grimoire have specifically stated that results in Gensoukyo are based on belief and faith, and are thus not reproducible. In short a spell works because the caster thinks is should work and not because of any merits of the rituals used. So science as a field is kinda useless. Experiments that only work for you can gather some great technobable, but that's only good for making your magical style more prevalent, not figuring out how the world works.
((2.5g belief + .25g color + 1.35 kg love) * 300 KJ * 500 m/s^2)/ (.6 * (400 C spark - atmospheric temperature)) = Love Colored Master Spark. :V
Though Patchouli is the last person I would quote when it comes to distinguishing science from magic, considering she was the former page quote on tvtropes for Clarke's Third Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitletnnwhqnhdt9x).
EDIT: I need sleep. I could have sworn someone made a Patchouli reference.
"The essence of magic is to determine the root cause of all things. There's no distinction between science and magic. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Hisoutensoku/Translation/Patchouli's_Script)" - Patchouli
But I really wasn't talking about canon. I meant if I were to try to make touhou obey the laws of physics - such as apply aerodynamics to flight spells - do you think it would fall apart when Yukari starts gapping around, or Sakuya manipulates time? Or would it be possible to write touhou as a world ruled by different fundamental scientific principles that make sufficient sense within the pre-set rules of the world?
-
Scientific and mathematical concepts could be applied to Touhou i.e. speeds and velocities of danmaku and their paths. But doing so would require incredibly precise calculations and things that are beyond normal physics.
But you CAN change the laws of physics in Gensokyou to fit your needs. It'll just be that they are abnormal compared to the real world.
Just saying that the rules might be complex to write.
EDIT: And Clarke's Third Law could work in this case.
-
I'll let you know, I'm not all that much into writing canon. In a world ruled by physics and chemistry that imposes natural law even on the tragectory of magic spells, I'm not going to try to justify danmaku that breaks the laws of physics.
Rikako had something about unified fields theory and magic. The sufficiently advanced theory works well with the assumption that Gensokyo has an energy source completely distinct in nature from heat, kenetic energy, electricity, etc. They already gave it the name magic, and going with the idea that magicians channel magic mechanically rather than spiritually would mean that the spells still have to follow laws like action-reaction, gravity, etc. I've been tinkering with the idea of the barrier as more of a magic dam than a physical obstruction as well.
Do readers generally prefer that authors follow the spell card rules, or would readers be more interested in stories where the touhou characters use their full abilities to their greatest extents in combat?
-
Do readers generally prefer that authors follow the spell card rules, or would readers be more interested in stories where the touhou characters use their full abilities to their greatest extents in combat?
Eh. I think readers have their preferences (I, for one, like to research the hell out of canon so I know exactly which bits of it I'm shattering to pieces as I write), but can accept either one as long as it's well-written. I personally like the use of full abilities, but I know a lot of people like spellcards instead. Up to you, really, as long as you can do it well.
-
Rikako had something about unified fields theory and magic. The sufficiently advanced theory works well with the assumption that Gensokyo has an energy source completely distinct in nature from heat, kenetic energy, electricity, etc. They already gave it the name magic, and going with the idea that magicians channel magic mechanically rather than spiritually would mean that the spells still have to follow laws like action-reaction, gravity, etc. I've been tinkering with the idea of the barrier as more of a magic dam than a physical obstruction as well.
Do readers generally prefer that authors follow the spell card rules, or would readers be more interested in stories where the touhou characters use their full abilities to their greatest extents in combat?
With what Rikako said, it would be Fridge Logic regardless.
The use of spell card rules or full abilities is entirely up to the author. If you find it more awesome and action-packed to have characters use their full ablities to their greatest extent, then by all means do it. It's your story.
Now that your think about it. Full abilities would be awesome...
-
I don't see why you'd have to choose between the two. It's not like you can only have onetype of battle in a story. I decide which to use on a scene-by-scene basis. Using my current story, Orphan, as an example, the battles with the demons have been real fights. Orphan held herself back for other reasons in her fight, but Wriggle wasn't holding back during her fight with one. Wriggle's upsoming fight with Marisa, on the other hand, is going to be a danmaku fight. Use whichever's best for the scene; there's no reason you can only use one throughout an entire story.
-
Characterization is far more important then powers or spellcards really. For some characters thier powers are an innate part of their character I feel (like Mokou's immortality), which for others it's merely a distraction (obsessing over Yukari's gap abilities is... a waste probably). For newer authors I'd avoid powers, or for that matter combat, entirely until you have a firm grip on characterization.
Unless you're writing mecha combat. Mecha combat is it's own unique awesome thing.
-
For some characters thier powers are an innate part of their character I feel (like Mokou's immortality), which for others it's merely a distraction (obsessing over Yukari's gap abilities is... a waste probably). For newer authors I'd avoid powers, or for that matter combat, entirely until you have a firm grip on characterization.
I have used powers powers before, just as plot devices rather than combat... or subtleties in description of actions.
Combat isn't difficult if there is an understanding of power.
-
Characterization is far more important then powers or spellcards really.
I would agree; a story can be said to be masterfully written, but only under the condition that its characters can be acknowledged as human; and not idle portraits upon a ceiling, for that matter. It is through exploitation of that actuality that the more capable of authors grow to success. The appreciable virtues of their craft is to be found within the implementation of humanity into their prose, so as to do away with isolation between character and audience, and allow the two to be provoked into an association.
-
Characterization is far more important then powers or spellcards really. For some characters thier powers are an innate part of their character I feel (like Mokou's immortality), which for others it's merely a distraction (obsessing over Yukari's gap abilities is... a waste probably). For newer authors I'd avoid powers, or for that matter combat, entirely until you have a firm grip on characterization.
Unless you're writing mecha combat. Mecha combat is it's own unique awesome thing.
(Yukari as a character is a distraction. If you told me you made a character that could manipulate any conceptual border, I would have told you to throw that character out. She's too powerful to be a hero or a villian, any defeat immediately starts "why didn't she just...?" questions, and its very difficult to like a character that can resolve any problem with a quick shift in the boundary between safe and danger but decides to nag a weaker character into resolving it instead. Especially since you can argue that merely the declaration of a boundary makes it conceptual - I declare that there is a boundary between doing nothing and saving the world, then the concept of that boundary is formed, and Yukari can manipulate it all she wants.
I could even sympathize if she didn't do anything because she didn't want to, and was tired of solving everyone's problems. But she seems to put more effort into getting other people to resolve incidents than if she just did it herself.)
I would agree; a story can be said to be masterfully written, but only under the condition that its characters can be acknowledged as human; and not idle portraits upon a ceiling, for that matter. It is through exploitation of that actuality that the more capable of authors grow to success. The appreciable virtues of their craft is to be found within the implementation of humanity into their prose, so as to do away with isolation between character and audience, and allow the two to be provoked into an association.
Are you two talking about written fiction specifically? Because I can think of a whole bunch of awesome movies that seemed to ignore characterization. Generally, action movies are very light on good characterization.
Truth be told, I consider myself to be fairly good at the characterization part, at least for characters I care about. Not so much for characters I haven't developed an interest in. In concept, it's easy to make the character have a great deal of depth, but I always have trouble getting the depth across. I think it's easier to do characterization in the first person, as long as the main character is interesting. It seems harder to do the characterization of other characters though, and being outside the head of the character is always the hard part for me; - the thoughts are what make the characters interesting, and if you can only see them through actions, then getting across things like motivations and their true feelings is hard, especially in a not particularly forthcoming character.
It doesn't help that I can't really pick up on the cues that make a character's real thoughts clear.
-
Yukari as a character is a distraction.
It's in fact one of the better examples. Even if you assume her power is absolute (something a lot of people do to my annoyance) it doesn't say anything about her loves, goals and thoughts.
Let me use a more common example. Superman. Stories about Superman's powers are universally dull. Stories about Superman, Krypton's last son, a man who can't save everyone despite how strong he is, are good stories.
Are you two talking about written fiction specifically?
Yes. Written works are different from film. If you write like an action flick you'll write terribly. Similarly writing a manga work is terrible. You need to write like a novelist.
Truth be told, I consider myself to be fairly good at the characterization part, at least for characters I care about.
Er... Your writing seems very four komaish at best.
-
(Yukari as a character is a distraction. If you told me you made a character that could manipulate any conceptual border, I would have told you to throw that character out.
thankfully you are not the head of touhou character design because then we'd be out what is, in my opinion, one of the better characters in the series
She's too powerful to be a hero or a villian,
since when does power have any bearing on alignment? or whether or not you can be either or? haven't you ever read comics?
any defeat immediately starts "why didn't she just...?" questions,
no it doesn't. especially as how yukari has been defeated in canon(iamp and swr)
and its very difficult to like a character that can resolve any problem with a quick shift in the boundary between safe and danger but decides to nag a weaker character into resolving it instead.
it's really easy to like yukari imo. and why shouldn't she nag others to fix things? I can think of a million reasons. for one, it might not even be her problem. maybe it's fun to watch them solve things. maybe she wants them to grow stronger. maybe she just likes to bother people. maybe she wants to see their limits. maybe she wants to see how they fight or think. I'm not even scraping the surface with these few statements.
Especially since you can argue that merely the declaration of a boundary makes it conceptual - I declare that there is a boundary between doing nothing and saving the world, then the concept of that boundary is formed, and Yukari can manipulate it all she wants.
think avatar: the last airbender for a second. just because what's-her-face can bend water doesn't mean she can control the entire ocean at once.
I could even sympathize if she didn't do anything because she didn't want to, and was tired of solving everyone's problems. But she seems to put more effort into getting other people to resolve incidents than if she just did it herself.)
this methodology just strengthens the reasoning behind many of the possibilities I listed above.
Are you two talking about written fiction specifically? Because I can think of a whole bunch of awesome movies that seemed to ignore characterization. Generally, action movies are very light on good characterization.
I would really like some examples as to what movies completely ignore characterization as even the most plotless and paper thin characters have characterization if the movie is any good. while yes, it does take a back seat in action movies, it's still there and not ignored at all.
Truth be told, I consider myself to be fairly good at the characterization part, at least for characters I care about.
you shouldn't. especially considering the things you say in the rest of your paragraph.
In concept, it's easy to make the character have a great deal of depth,
actually it's supposed to be quite a lot of work.
but I always have trouble getting the depth across.
this is one of the lines I meant. if you're bad at getting depth across, how are you good at characterization?
It seems harder to do the characterization of other characters though, and being outside the head of the character is always the hard part for me; - the thoughts are what make the characters interesting, and if you can only see them through actions, then getting across things like motivations and their true feelings is hard, especially in a not particularly forthcoming character.
actually a lot of the depth in a character comes from their actions. especially the little things. if yuugi is talking about a pretty girl and parsee balls up the fabric of her skirt in her hands, it paints a pretty clear image that parsee is (of course) jealous. and is much more entertaining and interesting than "parsee got jealous"
It doesn't help that I can't really pick up on the cues that make a character's real thoughts clear.
you should really work on that if you want to be as good at characterization as you claim to be
-
Er... Your writing seems very four komaish at best.
:colonveeplusalpha:
I'm that bad?!
I mean, I believe it. When you compare me Japanese puns translated into English, I can see why.
If I make another chapter/story with all the quality of my average, it means I stopped caring about what people think of my quality. If I post something interesting in the library, it means I decided to put the effort in to be good. But don't wait for anything.
Thanks Iced! I needed to know that.
-
:colonveeplusalpha:
I'm that bad?!
I really think you should not be feeling that concerned about your style and execution. It's what makes an author unique and inspiring. Do it the way you want it to sound.
EDIT: Maybe you want to look at prolificacy vs. quality. That's really difficult to work out sometimes.
-
Really, creativity is, in some part, the craft of the subconscious. Your mind only analyses ideas and evaluates their feasibility, but that can occur days or even months after the preliminary basis of a concept is actually composed. It is impossible to command yourself into producing the perfect idea; brainstorming is an action that conduces no certain result. You're basically exploring your mind, and memory, in particular, for a notion which satisfies, but you're never necessarily capable of imagining something that's alien to yourself.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's fruitless to tyrannise yourself into changing the nature of what you imagine; the best of its attempt should only procure a chaotic turmoil of disorganised thoughts whose insensible entanglement can only be confusedly interpreted by your mind. Represent yourself in a manner that allows your expressive character to flow, otherwise writing will become more tedious than enjoyable.
As I mentioned previously, the most successful fiction involves characters who can be recognised as human; they're not going to be perceptible as such if they're not created by an aspect of your imagination that you're familiar with. Go to any bookstore and search for a, "Best sellers," collection, or something of the like - even the most mediocre establishments are likely to display them. I can guarantee that most of the fiction novels there are admired for their play upon society, and the so-called, "Human condition," that authors such as Jane Austen are celebrated for; even those that appear to focus upon a concentric topic of science fiction or adventure must necessarily involve a character relationship that engages the reader in a way that no explosive plotline ever could.
No body wants to know about a broken cup; but imburse that shattered artifice with a voice, and a human intellect, and all of a sudden you have an opportunity for a story.
Well, I certainly went from one idea to another.
-
Really, creativity is, in some part, the craft of the subconscious. Your mind only analyses ideas and evaluates their feasibility, but that can occur days or even months after the preliminary basis of a concept is actually composed. It is impossible to command yourself into producing the perfect idea; brainstorming is an action that conduces no certain result. You're basically exploring your mind, and memory, in particular, for a notion which satisfies, but you're never necessarily capable of imagining something that's alien to yourself.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's fruitless to tyrannise yourself into changing the nature of what you imagine; the best of its attempt should only procure a chaotic turmoil of disorganised thoughts whose insensible entanglement can only be confusedly interpreted by your mind. Represent yourself in a manner that allows your expressive character to flow, otherwise writing will become more tedious than enjoyable.
As I mentioned previously, the most successful fiction involves characters who can be recognised as human; they're not going to be perceptible as such if they're not created by an aspect of your imagination that you're familiar with. Go to any bookstore and search for a, "Best sellers," collection, or something of the like - even the most mediocre establishments are likely to display them. I can guarantee that most of the fiction novels there are admired for their play upon society, and the so-called, "Human condition," that authors such as Jane Austen are popular for; even those that appear to focus upon a concentric topic of science fiction or adventure must necessarily involve a character relationship that engages the reader in a way that no explosive plotline ever could.
No body wants to know about a broken cup; but imburse that shattered artifice with a voice, and a human intellect, and all of a sudden you have an opportunity for a story.
Well, I certainly went from one idea to another.
You know, your posts would be much easier to read if you didn't use so much purple prose (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PurpleProse).
But the nature of what I imagine is what I have been writing in some sense. I only put limits on at the advice of outsiders because they outright tell me that my default writing style is mediocre. And frankly I haven't the slightest interest in writing about the "human condition." I'm fine with characterization, but the human condition is one topic that I refuse to touch. In fact, I would rather give up writing altogether than discuss what makes a man a man.
It's for philosophical reasons. I don't think there is anything to analyze about being human. You're human, and that's the end of the conversation - anything beyond that is pointless, and possibly even regressing from what I think is the correct view that there is nothing more or less about being human than having the biological characteristics of a human being. Because I think the deeper the discussion about the human condition becomes, the more the participants are turning away from what I think is the functionally correct answer (correct de facto in the physical interactions of people rather than correct by philosophical proof or formal recognition), I am adamantly opposed to the whole notion of a human condition.
The "human condition" is one of those things I feel strongly about, and about which my opinions run very contrary to the norm.
-
You know, your posts would be much easier to read if you didn't use so much purple prose (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PurpleProse).
that post was super easy to read and had no purple prose what are you talking about
But the nature of what I imagine is what I have been writing in some sense. I only put limits on at the advice of outsiders because they outright tell me that my default writing style is mediocre.
if one person tells you it's mediocre then you can just shrug it off
if multiple people are saying that your writing--or really anything you do(and this goes to everyone)--is mediocre then maybe you should take into account what they are saying because it's probably true.
I don't think there is anything to analyze about being human.
whaaaaaaihsioghoipgahsdgopahgopsghsgpaosg
You're human, and that's the end of the conversation - anything beyond that is pointless, and possibly even regressing from what I think is the correct view that there is nothing more or less about being human than having the biological characteristics of a human being. Because I think the deeper the discussion about the human condition becomes, the more the participants are turning away from what I think is the functionally correct answer (correct de facto in the physical interactions of people rather than correct by philosophical proof or formal recognition), I am adamantly opposed to the whole notion of a human condition.
The "human condition" is one of those things I feel strongly about, and about which my opinions run very contrary to the norm.
:colonveeplusalpha:
-
I don't even know what a, "Human condition," is intended to refer to, in all honesty; whether it be our social tendencies or something else entirely, I know not. I see it mentioned when discussing the virtues of authors who are apparently successful in its representation, but my own confused understanding of it is what made me to emplace it between speech marks, so as to imply how it is, really, specialised terminology.
My intended point was that it is the illustration of humanity that is often most attractive to an audience.
(In order to diminish upon my, "Purple prose," I replaced several words and phrases in this post with more colloquial alternatives)
-
that post was super easy to read and had no purple prose what are you talking about
I hope that's sarcasm.
if one person tells you it's mediocre then you can just shrug it off
if multiple people are saying that your writing--or really anything you do(and this goes to everyone)--is mediocre then maybe you should take into account what they are saying because it's probably true.
Yes. Yes I know that you and Iced Fairy think I'm mediocre. Actually, that's probably a euphamism. I'd be surprised if you two didn't think my writing was just plain bad.
The truth is that Iced Fairy writes stories I have an interest in all the time, and I wouldn't mind writing in Iced Fairy's style one bit. So I agree with his criticisms, which will probably bring me more in line with his style because it follows his philosophy on good writing.
You on the other hand are a mediocre writer. And while I know it has no bearing on the perfectly legitimate criticisms you are offering, I do not want to improve my way into your style. I happen to like my writing style, and while I would consider Iced style an improvement, I would consider yours as a downgrade. Don't put to much stock in that though; I would consider Rou's style a downgrade as well - he just uses to many words, and I can't read his stories to the end in spite of him being good.
-
Well, I certainly went from one idea to another.
The first part is one grand idea. The other seems more like how to appeal in writing.
I hope that's sarcasm.
You on the other hand are a mediocre writer. And while I know it has no bearing on the perfectly legitimate criticisms you are offering, I do not want to improve my way into your style. I happen to like my writing style, and while I would consider Iced style an improvement, I would consider yours as a downgrade. Don't put to much stock in that though; I would consider Rou's style a downgrade as well - he just uses to many words, and I can't read his stories to the end in spite of him being good.
Capt. H... seriously...
If he usually is taking your posts and answering each section with a witty remark of his own, then DON'T deal with him. And saying shit about him in return makes it worse.
So far, from what I have seen, he's been going at it with you like he has a grudge. Please, just don't pander to his nonsense, or make it worse by saying stuff like this. Because doing so causes more anger to be thrown around.
-
Someone once said (and where exactly, I can't remember) something about writing so that a character sounds the way they want them to sound... This seems both easy and difficult (to me, anyways), but when writing scenes in my head that aren't to happen for many chapters in the future (inefficient, I know) I've come to the conclusion that I like the idea of Yuuka sounding like a Cardassian from Star Trek.
More specifically, like a female Gul Dukat from Deep Space Nine; she would constantly ooze false sincerity and sound incredibly confidant and smug when speaking to, say, Reimu. I don't know... When imagining out the scene that I had come up with, each time Yuuka spoke, that was what I was thinking. I haven't been able to connect anybody else's voices to characters from anywhere else, so I can't be certain that this is something I would want to concentrate on, but I figured I'd say something, and maybe get an opinion (preferably from people that know what I'm talking about, since it wouldn't do to get an opinion from someone that had never heard the character before).
Hmm... I guess I'll have to give it more thought... or maybe less...
-
The first part is one grand idea. The other seems more like how to appeal in writing.
Capt. H... seriously...
If he usually is taking your posts and answering each section with a witty remark of his own, then DON'T deal with him. And saying shit about him in return makes it worse.
So far, from what I have seen, he's been going at it with you like he has a grudge. Please, just don't pander to his nonsense, or make it worse by saying stuff like this. Because doing so causes more anger to be thrown around.
You're right. sorry.
Someone once said (and where exactly, I can't remember) something about writing so that a character sounds the way they want them to sound... This seems both easy and difficult (to me, anyways), but when writing scenes in my head that aren't to happen for many chapters in the future (inefficient, I know) I've come to the conclusion that I like the idea of Yuuka sounding like a Cardassian from Star Trek.
More specifically, like a female Gul Dukat from Deep Space Nine; she would constantly ooze false sincerity and sound incredibly confidant and smug when speaking to, say, Reimu. I don't know... When imagining out the scene that I had come up with, each time Yuuka spoke, that was what I was thinking. I haven't been able to connect anybody else's voices to characters from anywhere else, so I can't be certain that this is something I would want to concentrate on, but I figured I'd say something, and maybe get an opinion (preferably from people that know what I'm talking about, since it wouldn't do to get an opinion from someone that had never heard the character before).
Hmm... I guess I'll have to give it more thought... or maybe less...
If your audience is as unable to hear the characters talking with the voices you intended, well...
I do not hear the characters voice when I read. I don't know about how other people read stories though. But if you have in mind a "Vito Corleone" voice for a character, unless you tell me he sounds like Vito Corleone I will never be able to guess the voice, or even think to give the character a voice.
I only speak for myself because I don't know what the average is. Maybe most people assign roles to voices when they read. I do know that having characters for which the audience knows that there is in fact a voice and letting the audience know what the voice is makes the characters much, much better. It's why I liked Agatha Christie's Poirot's books much more after watching the show and learning how Poirot sounds. But if you use words alone, subtlety will not work in the slightest. Describing the voice and it's texture will not be sufficient. Pointing at exactly the voice you intend to convey is the only thing that will get through to me. And even that won't work here, because I don't know what the character you are referring to sounds like. (EDIT: In this case, to get through to me personally, you would pretty much have to post a youtube clip of her voice or I will not be able to picture it.'s sound)
That said, I kind of hope most readers can pick up on the Columbo voice with a good description alone rather than simply telling the audience it's Columbo's voice. Not all of them (because I won't be able to), but most of them.
-
I do not hear the characters voice when I read. I don't know about how other people read stories though.
Haha well of course, one can only interpret the world through their own eyes.
-
I was the one who mentioned the character-voice technique.
I only do that to plot out how exactly they'd talk - would they be precise and to the point, would they chatter, would they meander about from topic to topic, would they offer a smartass remark in return to a request for whatever...
Stuff like that. All it does is helps me write. If I can pull it off successfully, the readers will start to develop their own image of the character, and I can refrain from the 'he said, she said, he said, she said' rigmarole and trust the readers to understand who's saying what just by what is being said.
But sometimes its fun to point out and assign voices to the characters, like Roukan's 'Jack' in Del Sancti. I read his lines, and imagined them as being said in Hagrid's voice, from the Harry Potter movies.
RE: Difficulty reading - if you think some of the stuff being discussed here is loaded on purple prose, or that Roukan uses too many big words, I recommend expanding your reading habits. Before you can write well, you should be able to read, and enjoy it. I don't mean dive directly into 'Pride and Prejudice' or something like that, but in some of your free time, read a book or two, rather than veg out on games or something. Especially if you want to pursue a writing hobby - it'll only help.
-
Oh god pride and prejudice, what a masterpiece.
I never managed to finish reading it; I totally have to pick it up sometime and do so with promptitude... I'll contrive to finish Blue at the Mizzen before I should, though; I'm affectionate towards completing the Aubrey-Maturin series before I should adventure upon anything different.
-
Re characters speaking:
I know I'm on to something when the character changes one of my lines to better suit the characters views instead of my own. That's a rare occurrence though.
More importantly you have to remember textual speech isn't real speech. It should sound like something a real person could say, but it'll always be more detailed because you need to convey more information. Word choice and vocabulary is really helpful here, though admittedly it's hard to keep consistent without a proofreader. When I did my Battletech crossover getting Clan speech right (no contractions) was much harder then it seemed like it should be.
Before you can write well, you should be able to read, and enjoy it. I don't mean dive directly into 'Pride and Prejudice' or something like that, but in some of your free time, read a book or two, rather than veg out on games or something. Especially if you want to pursue a writing hobby - it'll only help.
This. A thousand times this. There are writing tricks suffused throughout the English language and they just don't teach them in English class. At least not well. Only by reading lots of different works can you fully appreciate things like diction, and how they make the writing move. My ideas for Touhou may have come from the Sandman and Mage: the Ascension. But my writing is drawn from Heinlein to Brust. I may default to Stackpolesque 'brick to the face' prose, but sometimes you need something more in depth. A writer should be able to write a full chapter on something as simple as eating a good meal, and they should be able to indicate their characters had a good meal without ever using the words "a good meal" or giving any description of the actual food involved.
(Note: Most of my reading has actually been within the Fantasy-Scifi area, though of course I branch out. The main thing isn't the "quality" of the work from an English major standpoint. It's reading a diverse body of works in depth and actually watching the language flow.)
-
sms: there's only one person I have a grudge on and it's not capt h, thank you very much. there is no anger going on here, unless I am pissing off capt h in which case I apologize.
capth:
-if I am mediocre, then please offer examples as to why you think so
-tbh I am actually quite fond of your enthusiasm for writing which is why I am so hard on you
-the criticism I am giving you is not to "improve into my style" or however you say it, it's just general advice.
-you should really learn to appreciate styles you don't like. while I am not fond of any sort of (real) purple prose, I can still recognize a talented prose writer compared to an amateurish one. this will not only help you find exactly where you should be as a writer, but make your comments on writing seem much, much more legitimate and not so opinionated.
-related to above point, just because someone writes in a way that makes it difficult for you to understand, it does not make them a bad writer.
-you seem to be very hung up on how you see things and how things affect you, and while that is good information to have if someone were to aim to please you specifically, the truth is that most of us aren't. in fact, many of us just write for ourselves. imo you should probably try and take a step back and think about how other people like things and how things affect other people, instead of just yourself.
-also what everyone else said
quoting posts and then pulling them apart is too much effort
-
I'd like to point out the fact how sometimes what people say is being thrown around and used as be related to other things, out of context.
sms: there's only one person I have a grudge on and it's not capt h, thank you very much. there is no anger going on here, unless I am pissing off capt h in which case I apologize.
It's the way you respond or try to give him advice.
When he's making an opinion or stating what he feels, breaking up the post and answering to snippets at a time does not look like advice or response. It looks more like you're nitpicking at what he's saying.
-
I'd like to point out the fact how sometimes what people say is being thrown around and used as be related to other things, out of context.
It's the way you respond or try to give him advice.
When he's making an opinion or stating what he feels, breaking up the post and answering to snippets at a time does not look like advice or response. It looks more like you're nitpicking at what he's saying.
I am nitpicking. it's easier to respond to each separate thought that way.
that doesn't mean I have a grudge on him
-
that doesn't mean I have a grudge on him
So far, from what I have seen, he's been going at it with you LIKE he has a grudge.
ending my portion of discussion here
EDIT: I'm sorry if I use similes and metaphors in my writing. My writing is poorly worded, I guess.
-
Can we please end this line of discussion here? I don't particularly relish the idea of this conversation continuing in Koakuma's. Take it to more private channels.
-
To sum up what I think is Ryuu's best point here -
Pull the ZUN approach to writing. If you can't find a story out there that you like and enjoy reading, then maybe you should write it. If you write it, at least you'll know you like it.
-
OK, I have had it pointed out to me that I am pushing myself way too hard.
Not so much in terms of workload as it is pressure. Writing started as something I did for fun, and as I got into bigger and bigger stories with more and more readers I found myself feeling obligated to keep going, even when the tank started to run low. That led to a low work output over a long time, which lead to me saying to myself 'goddammit look how little I've done over all this time I need to get writing' and pressing myself when I had nothing left to give, which led to a low work output...
So I'm stepping away for a bit. I'm working myself too hard, to the point where writing feels more like an obligation than it should be. It should be fun, but when I'm sitting there wincing at how I can't get the next scene of DRK to work it's anything but.
I'm sorry if this disappoints people who want to see what I do next. I'll come back when I feel properly replenished. When that'll be, I have no clue in hell. =_=
-
Rou's Taken A Break
:D
About time, man. You're only obligated to write for yourself for now. None of us are reeeeeeally published ('cept maybe... nah, nevermind) so it's not like you have deadlines to meet.
-
OK, I have had it pointed out to me that I am pushing myself way too hard.
Not so much in terms of workload as it is pressure. Writing started as something I did for fun, and as I got into bigger and bigger stories with more and more readers I found myself feeling obligated to keep going, even when the tank started to run low. That led to a low work output over a long time, which lead to me saying to myself 'goddammit look how little I've done over all this time I need to get writing' and pressing myself when I had nothing left to give, which led to a low work output...
So I'm stepping away for a bit. I'm working myself too hard, to the point where writing feels more like an obligation than it should be. It should be fun, but when I'm sitting there wincing at how I can't get the next scene of DRK to work it's anything but.
I'm sorry if this disappoints people who want to see what I do next. I'll come back when I feel properly replenished. When that'll be, I have no clue in hell. =_=
If you need help, I'd be more than willing to give it. Sometimes you just need a little input from someone else. I know it's helped me.
-
If you need help, I'd be more than willing to give it. Sometimes you just need a little input from someone else. I know it's helped me.
While your offer of aid is nice, in this case I'm sure it's overwork pushing Rou down.
Something to remember writers. Proper writing makes you tired mentally. Just because you're jittery physically doesn't mean you've still got the power to write. Write when you have mental strength. And if writing ever becomes a chore try taking a break before brainstorming again. It'll make you happier.
-
While your offer of aid is nice, in this case I'm sure it's overwork pushing Rou down.
Something to remember writers. Proper writing makes you tired mentally. Just because you're jittery physically doesn't mean you've still got the power to write. Write when you have mental strength. And if writing ever becomes a chore try taking a break before brainstorming again. It'll make you happier.
This is why EverWander died, and why I haven't updated Sealed Fates in forever. In fact, I haven't really written anything since the last update to the Librarian stories, and even then, that was sporadic.
-
So I'm stepping away for a bit. I'm working myself too hard, to the point where writing feels more like an obligation than it should be. It should be fun, but when I'm sitting there wincing at how I can't get the next scene of DRK to work it's anything but.
I'm sorry if this disappoints people who want to see what I do next. I'll come back when I feel properly replenished. When that'll be, I have no clue in hell. =_=
Ahhh, you bastard, that means I actually have to update soon. You jerk. Oh well.
Come back soon so I can laze around more :<
-
While your offer of aid is nice, in this case I'm sure it's overwork pushing Rou down.
Possibly, but getting help from someone tends to alleviate that, I've found. You can take a break while someone else kicks it around for a bit. Again, it works for me.
Anyways, it's your choice, Rou. Just thought I'd make the offer. I hope you feel up to writing more soon, because your stuff, especially DRK, is excellent.
-
Coming Soon: DRK Continues, as told by Esi!
Sango gets a head-mounted laser cannon
Koishi fights with a broadsword
Mokou uses a ball-and-chain flail
Tewi gets a mecha
AND THE RETURN OF YUKARI AS GOD
-
Coming Soon: DRK Continues, as told by Esi!
Sango gets a head-mounted laser cannon
Sango gets molested by Koishi
Koishi fights with a broadsword
Sango gets molested by Nitori
Mokou uses a ball-and-chain flail
Sango gets molested by Koishi and Nitori
Tewi gets a mecha
Sango gets molested by the entire Scarlet family and staff
AND THE RETURN OF YUKARI AS GOD
Because her rebirth was charged by dolphin molestations
Fixed that for you. :V
-
That led to a low work output over a long time, which lead to me saying to myself 'goddammit look how little I've done over all this time I need to get writing' and pressing myself when I had nothing left to give, which led to a low work output...
I actually wanted to ask something semi-related to this.
I enjoy writing, I really do. I wouldn't do it in my free time if I didn't. But whenever I do write I usually end up quitting after fifteen or twenty minutes. I stress over things not sounding the way I want them to or whether or not I should re-write something I've just written (and usually do it several times. I did it at least three just with that last sentence in this post). As a result my work output is incredibly low and I end up not writing very much. This is bad because I desperately need the practice but my word count just tends to sit around the same amount no matter how much time I spend on it.
I know that making sure my writing has a good quality is important, but would it be beneficial to maybe just write something I'm not so involved with or just try and continuously write without going back and changing anything? Any advice at all?
-
My suggestion would to be to write something without going back, then editing it after you're done. Perhaps give yourself a time limit on edits too. Editing one line over and over not only burns time, it's not a good editing strategy because the words will need to fit into the paragraph as a whole.
-
Hello inhabitants of the Writing Parlour! :V
If any of you've ever check AAA, you might have seen this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8394.0.html). In short, I'm making visual novels out of people's touhou stories.
My current planned lineup is as follows:
Down on the Corner (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4876.0.html)
Douchebag in Gensokyo (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,3357.0.html)
Touhou Love stories: The Bad Ends (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Fiction_found_on_imageboards)
Now although the last one is quite long in and of itself, because of the positive response from artists, we might need more stories to work on, and it doesn't hurt to overprepare.
So I'm looking for some suggestions on other stories from PSL/KGB for me to work with. Pile 'em on me BV
-
I actually wanted to ask something semi-related to this.
I enjoy writing, I really do. I wouldn't do it in my free time if I didn't. But whenever I do write I usually end up quitting after fifteen or twenty minutes. I stress over things not sounding the way I want them to or whether or not I should re-write something I've just written (and usually do it several times. I did it at least three just with that last sentence in this post). As a result my work output is incredibly low and I end up not writing very much. This is bad because I desperately need the practice but my word count just tends to sit around the same amount no matter how much time I spend on it.
I know that making sure my writing has a good quality is important, but would it be beneficial to maybe just write something I'm not so involved with or just try and continuously write without going back and changing anything? Any advice at all?
Well, the obvious thing that comes to mind is that you're trying to get a perfect first draft. Writing doesn't really work like that. Get SOMETHING written first and foremost, with the intent of some quality but not nitpicking. When the first draft's done, then you can start picking at details.
-
My writing strategy is typically to begin with a draft upon paper. I find a blank sheet to be more commodious than a blank screen; it's easier to provoke myself into a flow when I've a pen in hand. It's only when I transcribe that initial manuscript to the computer that I commit myself to refining and editing - the efficiency of a keyboard is more suitably adapted to the dirty work. Overall, my writing is perhaps a little less efficient, but I find it to be more comfortable.
-
So I'm looking for some suggestions on other stories from PSL/KGB for me to work with. Pile 'em on me BV
From the KGB -
The Sound of the City (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7187.0.html)
Forsake the Future, Pursue the Past (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,2314.0.html) (herp derp self-advertisement, no ego whatsoever)
From PSL -
Dolphin Rider Koishi (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6913.0.html) - even though it's not finished yet, the sheer amount of material will keep you busy for a while.
Any of the winning Weekly Writing Challenges (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5084.0.html) - these would be short, sweet, and to the point.
And of course, TALES FROM THE LIBRARY (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5020.0.html) :derp:
-
From the KGB -
The Sound of the City (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7187.0.html)
Ooh more stuff from Ammy
Forsake the Future, Pursue the Past (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,2314.0.html) (herp derp self-advertisement, no ego whatsoever)
And you :V
From PSL -
Dolphin Rider Koishi (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6913.0.html) - even though it's not finished yet, the sheer amount of material will keep you busy for a while.
And of course, TALES FROM THE LIBRARY (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5020.0.html) :derp:
It would probably be best for me to work on stuff that's done since I like planning out things throughly before I get working
Any of the winning Weekly Writing Challenges (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5084.0.html) - these would be short, sweet, and to the point.
Any ones in particular? Or is it time for me to read through 22 pages of fun :V
-
Any ones in particular? Or is it time for me to read through 22 pages of fun :V
Take the ff.net-style slashfics, totally :derp:
-
Take the ff.net-style slashfics, totally :derp:
No no no. You should do the SPAM fics. :V
Honestly though, it'd be cool to sorta organize the WWC sets.
-
Take the ff.net-style slashfics, totally :derp:
No no no. You should do the SPAM fics. :V
Honestly though, it'd be cool to sorta organize the WWC sets.
oH bOyO i do loves some QUALITY writans :getdown:
-
Right, so. Continuity. The dreaded enemy of the long story. I had ideas when I started with DRK, though not concrete, and now I'm concerned that a point I'd mentioned a while back doesn't fit with what I'm saying now.
In short, what's the best way to deal with an error in your continuity? Fix the issue by editing previously posted text - thus ensuring you confuse people who've already read the 'flawed' text and have no idea where the change came from - or keep it as it is, hope no-one notices, and prepare to be called an idiot the instant someone finds it? :|
-
While I've not read DRK, I will say that there are ways of fixing continuity issues without breaking the story or otherwise feeling foolish; it all depends on what, specifically, you are contradicting. Since you seem to be leaning away from a rewrite (which I wouldn't suggest, anyways, since it's already a long story), the best thing to do is work something into the upcoming chapters that will allow you to nullify whatever is causing the problem; if it was something someone said, you can make them simply be mistaken or misunderstanding, if it's something closer to a law of physics, well... there's plenty of ways you can correct that (there's enough dimensional shenanigens available to explain anything that seems off, if you're willing to go that far). If all else fails, time travel; just avoid the paradox on the way back and you should be golden.
The more I reread it, the more amateurish these suggestions feel, but they are the best I could come up with; someone else who has actually read it might be able to give you more specific advice on what to do.
-
It's a matter of 'narrator says A happened, while completely trustworthy character says B happened'. So either I've got to force people to question the character (which they have no reason to, they're totally right) or worse they have to question the narrator.
I know I can literally fix this all up by adding one line in the latest update, but the feeling of changing what I've already written is rough.
-
It's a matter of 'narrator says A happened, while completely trustworthy character says B happened'. So either I've got to force people to question the character (which they have no reason to, they're totally right) or worse they have to question the narrator.
I know I can literally fix this all up by adding one line in the latest update, but the feeling of changing what I've already written is rough.
Ironically, this is the reason I place all my stories here before placing them on fanfiction.net. I'm never going to get the continuity/grammar right the first time, and I probably need the feedback anyway.
Well that, and I want to make sure I can finish a story before I post another one on that site.
-
Issues like this are solved with what's called a Ret-con. Retroactive .... contradiction? I dunno. But it involves just simply and straight up saying 'We said that? Nope, it was wrong, it's actually like this, end of story!'
Seems like a bit of a dick thing to do, and going overboard with it either becomes incredibly zany or totally kills a story. One or two for honest mistakes that keep the story going in a cohesive manner don't typically have negative effects, unless it's something like suddenly revealing one of the characters is in fact the opposite gender and they just recently had sex with another character - then you have another glaring issue to resolve, involving both characters' sexuality and yadda yadda yadda snowballing problems it all just goes downhill from there.
Just ret-con it, make a note of it before the next update explaining what was changed, and the readers will be like 'oh okay then' and most likely keep going into the story.
-
Honestly, in this kind of setting, I would go ahead and go back and alter things early on, so it matches up to what you want. It's electronic, not paper published, so it's pretty damned easy, and no one here will be upset if you say "Hey, I screwed up earlier, made some changes, here's where it is". If it helps you learn and make a better product, then do it.
As an example, I know a guy who's rewritten the same story about... seven times? At this point it doesn't even resemble the original story... Though, that's kind of an extreme example.
-
Hell, my two stories are a matched pair, but when I started writing the second one, it was for the first version of the first one, and since I started rewriting the first one in order to better elaborate on what I'd originally written, I realized that I needed to rewrite the first couple of chapters of the second one in order to make it fit properly.
That was a month ago, however, and I got about 4/7 of the way done with the first chapter before stopping and have made no progress since then. I think the fact that there were no spell cards in Mystic Square makes writing danmaku combat more difficult, and therefor I'm stuck just before the Yumeko fight (note that MS extra is basically already written, since I described that fight in my rewrite of the first story). I'd actually work on it if it weren't for my brain writing a completely different chapter for the first story that won't come about for some time from now in the last week or so... >_>
-
White Rose, being a first draft and unedited, has these sort of errors all over the damn place. And it has some errors that will pop up later, obviously (kinda what happens when you write a story over the course of years and yes I'm still writing it augh). I just go back and edit it as I go if it's too bad (ie: people being alive when they're not supposed to be), but for the rest, meh, I'll save it for later >___>
-
Retroactive Continuity, Esi.
Anyway, I've found a way to convince the two statements to support each other by making another statement later on, which patches up the gap pretty nicely. I think I gave it too much thought earlier, frankly, considering it was still a relatively small point, but I think it's still a good thing to discuss.
To an extent, I might be holding myself to the wrong standard again. That sort of continuity error in, say, a published novel is unacceptable, because you read it all at once and the problem is obvious, not to mention this is after several drafts. DRK, on the other hand, is not quite at that level of quality control, and besides that the two offending sentences are months apart in terms of when they were written. Which brings up another question - if the writers here were to write a full blown novel, how would their system of writing change? How would they go about second, third drafts? Planning?
Sect: I have already done that once in PLotSS, though that was for a glaring error in physics and geometry. And yes, I freaked out like nuts over that as well. >_>
-
First rule to avoiding continuity errors : Don't publish until it's done.
Of course if you then decide to keep in continuity you have problems... (I want to use Letty in New World, but she's dead. Why did I do that?)
Still if I were working on a personal Novel I'd probably have more outlines. Not necessarily drafts but story flowcharts. The editor will make you write more drafts. (So many more drafts).
-
Which brings up another question - if the writers here were to write a full blown novel, how would their system of writing change?
I imagine I'd be doing much the same thing I am doing now-- writing the first draft, and waiting 'till it's all done to begin the grueling proofreading process.
-
Man, this place doesn't get nearly the amount of traffic of CPMC huh :V Well I might as well try opening up the floor.
Why do you want to write?
I say want because there are probably a number of people (like myself) who have many ideas that they want to write but lack either the time or motivation to do so.
Is it just because you want to get these ideas out there? Or just because these ideas buzz around in your head until you write them down?
Is it a means of expressing yourself? A mirror to your own life? Or do you want to tell a story about fantastic characters that couldn't exist in reality?
Do you write with a purpose? Or do you write for writing's sake?
Do you write from ideas? Or do you write from experience?
Does your mind drive you to write? Having ideas that you think are brilliant or not yet explored and so you want to bring them to reality.
Or your soul? Having the desire to tell a story that has meanting to both yourself and life in general.
Do you write for yourself? In order to release and express the thoughts that only you hear.
Or do you write for others? In order to tell a story to capture the emotions and minds of anyone who reads it, and contribute to expand thier persepectives.
Why do you write? Why do you want to write? Whatever your reason is, please share it.
-
Hmmm, let's see.
For one, as meta as that may sound, I like the feeling of arranging words into something bigger. Putting together the right words to make them describe a scene, an action, a character just the way you imagine them in your head is something I just love. Having one sentence flow into the other to build a continuing story is hella lot of fun to me. Words are a wonderful thing, and being able to use them well is a skill I wouldn't want to trade in for anything else.
Now I don't actually use very detailed descriptions in my own style, but I noticed that apparently the images I want to give still come over as intended most of the time, which is very nice to see. That already leads to my second point: I like to do stuff that people enjoy. I enjoy writing, but I also want it to be enjoyable for the readers, I don't write only for myself. When I know that someone can read what I wrote and have fun with it, smile at it or be amused, then I have reached my goal. I don't want to achieve "good writing" in the sense of a refined style, I want to write things that are enjoyable for others, so they can take a break from the pressures of the outside world and just relax for a bit. :3
(This also means that chances of me ever writing a really serious story are slim. There are tons of people out there who are way better with that stuff than I am. My domain is entertainment via amusement.)
On a third note, I also love to see how ideas play out. I am not someone who plans ahead a lot, I start off with a vague idea and let it take form as I write it out. Then I will talk about it with people and often new ideas are born there as well. Seeing how an idea I had plays out when I actually write it is half of the fun of writing for me. I have a list of things that are gonna happen in the Magical Librarians story later on, most of those are ideas that came to me while writing the story already, or from talks with people~
-
I dunno.
More often than not, I write (or rather want to write) because it's a way for me to get my ideas on paper and bring them to life. They're no good in my head being they have a very high chance of being devoured by the beast of forgetfulness and thus lost forever. Building a world, creating characters, locations and various other concepts is what I like most about writing (and drawing as well). Even more so if I'm writing something completely original, like Hotblooded Pig. There was some aspect of just having fun with writing but that slowly gave way to a more serious approach as I realized I needed to improve and I couldn't do that while goofing off. By this point, I can probably afford to have a little fun now, but I still make the same stupid mistakes here and there that make me rage at myself for being a retard.
Another minor reason is to see how others react to these works. People have different views and opinions on what they see, I'd like to know what others will say when they read my work. Do they like it, do they hate it, does it confuse them, it's all something I can use to either better myself in one way or the other.
-
Hm. Several reasons spring to mind.
- Put simply, writing is fun to me. I think of it as having a picture in my head, and trying to draw the picture with words. It's an entertaining challenge.
- Other people enjoy my writing, so it feels like I'm producing something worthwhile. I get to write silly mahou-shoujo dolphin riding antics, and other people enjoy reading them. In the end, everyone wins. :P
- In terms of characters reflecting myself, it depends on the story. With silly random shorts that's not the point, but in bigger works it does play in a hell of a lot. Half the reason I never finished the first draft of Del Sancti was because Sango reminded me too much of my worst parts, and it sort of hurt to write. -_-
- No-one else is going to write the sort of story I like, so I may as well write it myself.
-
Writing has been a biological need of mine, like eating or urination, since I was able to spell my own name. Which isn't to say it's made me particularly good as a writer; just that it's something I have needed and do need to do on a regular basis or I feel myself starting to whither inside.
Just the act of putting words onto paper/doc/screen is enough to make me feel at ease with myself. My motivations depend entirely on what I'm writing. Often times it's to help pay the bills. It might be to bring something to light or to inform, or to make people laugh, or - in the case of fiction - to put into words a world, or a part of a world, in my head, and in so doing make it tangible.
Whatever the motivation is at the time, underlying them all is the primal, reptilian need in my blood to make words. Like Bill Burroughs said, language is a virus.
-
I write for several reasons.
One of the main reasons is the ability to create something. I'm constantly inspired by the things I see on a daily basis, with music in particular being a major inspiration. When I listen to music, it will always make me picture something, whether it be a scene or a character or a landscape or a whole story. Part of my drive to write is describing and detailing these things I imagine. I've also always loved making my own interpretations of things, case in point being all the Touhou fanfiction I've been doing. Honestly, writing is simply the easiest artistic method for me to display the things I've created.
I also write as a form of venting. I very rarely talk to people about the issues in my life, and writing gives me a way to express what I can't on a daily basis, which is part of the reason most of my stories are darker in tone. Branching off of that, I write what I know. I can't think of a single scene I've written where I haven't felt what the characters at that point felt, or at least something similar. All the characters I write about I at least have some trait in common with, which is enough to allow me to get into their heads and know how to properly express myself through them. It's emotionally draining and, depending on the characters and scene, sometimes even painful, but by the time I've finished and have a chance to step back and pull myself back out, I generally feel better.
Having ideas that you think are brilliant or not yet explored and so you want to bring them to reality.
In order to release and express the thoughts that only you hear.
So pretty much this.
-
- No-one else is going to write the sort of story I like, so I may as well write it myself.
ilu Rou you rock and never forget that
-
I love stories. And I love characters.
That's the biggest reason for me. A well crafted story is loads of fun for me. Especially if it enhances a character I like.
I've always put together stories in my head (still do) and now that I've gotten in the habit of writing my mental stories tend to branch out more. I'd always scribbled down ideas, but now I'm bringing more of them to fruition.
What actually gets me out and writing? Having an audience helps a lot. I started writing Touhou fics in order to try to shift the focus on fanon (Ha!) but I stuck with it because I knew my writing was reaching someone. Add in some stubborn pride, and a need to finish what I start, and you get my current writing status.
But at the start it's about stories.
-
I like writing cause it's fun and I can't draw with a damn. Not that my writing is any better. Seriously, one of my main reasons for writing is self improvement. I write mostly for myself. I mean I am constantly thinking up plots and stories in my head and if I don't write them down, I forget them after awhile and it all seems like a waste. I mean I set there with them in my head and just keep building and building with these characters for months at a time. Even now I have four stories in my head on top of M4 and still thinking up things for all of them. I'm only on the fourth arc of a planned nine.
-
All you people with actual reasons to write make me feel jealous.
Yeah, I don't know why I do it >__> I just hit the keys and what comes out is sometimes interesting to think about, so I keep doing it.
-
What actually gets me out and writing? Having an audience helps a lot.
That's pretty important, too. I've stopped most of my writing on Sealed Fates because my audience promptly dropped off once I killed some nameless/faceless mooks, and also because I'm not that great at writing Sakuya.
Iced continues his BattleTech crossover because people like me are big into it. Ryuu finished 'Girl in the Cave' because I wanted to see how it ended, and I bugged him about it. Sakana finished the MotK Murder Mystery becau-
...oh, wait, that's right :V
-
Sakana finished the MotK Murder Mystery becau-
Someday, when the main reason why I am losing tons of time and motivation has been resolved... :P
-
Someday, when the main reason why I am losing tons of time and motivation has been resolved... :P
Esi did it
-
Ryuu finished 'Girl in the Cave' because I wanted to see how it ended
actually I finished it because the parsee in my soul kept roaring at me and it was distracting
-
Well... I write to organise my thoughts. It's a measure of system in a chaotic movement of life. And then there is to mention that inexpressible pleasure that accompanies a notion of triumph in your craft.
-
I write because I hate the story to stuck in my head. Also proving how my Touhouverse > yours is a wonderful feeling.
That aside, I have some question to ask. I'm actually fond of poetry and did quite a large amount of poem before. So I'm curious how English write their poems? I read some poem online but it didn't give me any clue. I mean are there rules? About the rhymes, the rhythms, the amount of word in each sentence? Poetry is serious business in the East, I managed to understand 6 kinds poetry and the rules are really strict (except from "free-style poetry"). It's different because one word in English can have more than 1 syllable.
-
Hooray, activity! :V
I'd answer my own question, but I'm being bogged down by exams. :ohdear: Still, I want to keep the discussion going, so here's another question.
It seems that most people have answered the previous question with something along the lines of "I have ideas that I want to bring to life, thus writing is a means of accomplishing that." So in liew of that, my next question is this:
If you had the power to make one of your ideas/stories read by every single person in the world, what would it be?
What kind of story do you want to be read? A tragic story? An epic tale? A comedic piece? A collection of short stories?
Would it be a single book? A trilogy? Or an entire long running series?
Would it have some sort of message? Will it exist to bring light to a specific issue? Or maybe to human nature as a whole?
Who would it be written for? To your friends? To your family? Your city? Your country? To all of humankind?
This is a chance for you to have your story be heard by absolutely everybody; so what would it be about?
-
Hrm... That's not really fair. I mean if I could force everyone in the world to read something I wrote I'd be aiming for something a lot more important then one of my fics here. Something that shook people up and maybe got them to start thinking. It'd have to be a book sized manifesto with four or five years of research slammed into the thing. Because honestly that's too important an opportunity to pass up.
Limited to fiction? A story of triumph over adversity. Heroism tempered with reason. I love that classic narrative no matter how overplayed it may seem.
Now for something a little more down to earth like something I've written that I'd want everyone on say this site to read? I still hold great love in my heart for What Winter Left Behind. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5014.0.html) I know I've written both better and worse fics since then, but I think that was one of my most pure pieces.
-
I'd force everyone to read my awesome Cinro vs Sukowa FF parady from the first contest I entered here! :V
Seriously though, it be the The Order of Artemis . I have been "working" on it for years. I have been going over rough ideas and fine tuning it forever. I've even thought out many of the minute tiny details for it that I usually don't get to until I actually start writing.
Basically it's a fantasy piece. It's about this girl "Al"ice and her sister Lucy. At the start of the story Lucy gets pulled into a mysterious hole along with a crew member of the Artemis. There they meet a couple from a planet that was enveloped by complete darkness. Together they fight there was back out and back home. Afterwords, Al sneaks aboard the Artemis and after a couple of adventures forces herself into being a crew member and drags her sister along for the ride as they search about these mysterious holes and a way, if any to restore the missing planets.
Along the way a mysterious illness sweeps across the planet killing the inhabitants and a man in golden armor stands against the Artemis. They also meet a phantom from a world called Mu that has been on the planet before the holes appeared. And the phantom reveals that the holes are part of an ancient intersteller passage way called Tartarus, but even deeper than that is the Imaginary Data Space, where the true threat, Angra Mainyu lies. The crew keep investing Tartarus, trying to find a way into the IDS, until a giant hole rips across the sky and Angra Mainyu threatens the world.
Again, it's purely selfish, but I've been working on it and still am. So yeah, I'd like everyone to read it.
-
I wouldn't mind specifically; I would just be grateful for that universal audience.
-
Hrm... That's not really fair. I mean if I could force everyone in the world to read something I wrote I'd be aiming for something a lot more important then one of my fics here. Something that shook people up and maybe got them to start thinking. It'd have to be a book sized manifesto with four or five years of research slammed into the thing. Because honestly that's too important an opportunity to pass up.
Limited to fiction? A story of triumph over adversity. Heroism tempered with reason. I love that classic narrative no matter how overplayed it may seem.
Now for something a little more down to earth like something I've written that I'd want everyone on say this site to read? I still hold great love in my heart for What Winter Left Behind. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5014.0.html) I know I've written both better and worse fics since then, but I think that was one of my most pure pieces.
I said ideas/stories implying that it could be something that you haven't written yet :derp:
-
Oh hey, stuff. Maybe answering some questions might help. Maybe.
Why do you want to write?
I... Just really love stories, to be honest. I love the way the best stories can enthrall the imagination and set ablaze such wonderful pictures inside your head, the way they can take you to the gates of heaven, or plunge you down into the bleak depths of hell. A good story lasts generations, and the best stories never truly die. I... Just want to tell stories, really. I want to come up with something that people will talk about for a long time to come, I want something of mine to last after I've gone, I want someday for someone to be at least somewhat moved by my stories. I just want to know that somewhere, at least someone thought something I did really counted, and that one day they'll tell the story to someone else and when asked "who wrote that?" the reply would be "Moerin".
...Well, not "Moerin", more like my real name, but, um, still. >.>
If you had the power to make one of your ideas/stories read by every single person in the world, what would it be?
I have this one idea. I've had it in my head since I was a kid, and it's grown and grown ever since then. I could go on about how it's a reconstruction of the magical girl genre, or how it's everything I've ever thought of as "cool" thrown together in the hope that it'd work, or that it's just some silly, stupid little "Gurren Lagann with frills" kind of thing, but... In the end, it's just a story of someone who never gave up on their ideals, hope and the ones they cared about, despite insurmountable odds, soul crushing despair and seemingly the entire universe trying to get in the way. It's... Really, really stupid when I describe it, and there's no way it could ever be as good as the vague pictures of itI have in my mind, but... It's just... Something I just really, really want toget down at some point. Something I have to do, no matter how hard it is. Something that I have to see through eventually, even if the strain of getting it out kills me in the end.
...Um... Sorry for the overdramatic pretentiousness in that last bit. >.<
Ugh... I just want to write something that people will enjoy. I'm never happy with anything I write, but as long as at least one person gets some enjoyment out of it, it wasn't a wasted effort, was it? Sorry, I've been droning on incoherently, kinda delirious at the moment. Maybe when I'm in a clearer state of mind I can reiterate this all in a way that actually makes sense.
-
What I'd have someone read?
Legend of a Hot Blooded Pig because alot of work is actually mapping shit out to make it a good story now that I'm not pressured by time.
-
Sorry for the off-topic, but suggestion: Should we make a separate topic or something along those lines for recommendations? There are almost definitely a ton of great fics out there that won't be archived in PSL, and I think it's part of the job of a librarian to share good fiction.
As such, here's something I found looking around TVTropes' fic recs - Alice's Glorious Homestead Defense (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6316842/1/Alices_Glorious_Homestead_Defense).
-
Sorry for the off-topic, but suggestion: Should we make a separate topic or something along those lines for recommendations? There are almost definitely a ton of great fics out there that won't be archived in PSL, and I think it's part of the job of a librarian to share good fiction.
As such, here's something I found looking around TVTropes' fic recs - Alice's Glorious Homestead Defense (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6316842/1/Alices_Glorious_Homestead_Defense).
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
You'll annoy/offend everyone who doesn't make the cut, but Sturgeon's Law does apply, and I would be far more interested in reading something because it was recommended than because it was recently updated.
-
You'll annoy/offend everyone who doesn't make the cut, but Sturgeon's Law does apply, and I would be far more interested in reading something because it was recommended than because it was recently updated.
You seem to misread Rou's intent. He's asking about recommendations for fics that are off-site, so not PSL stuff.
-
You seem to misread Rou's intent. He's asking about recommendations for fics that are off-site, so not PSL stuff.
Honestly, I would like both.
There may be a ton of fics on other sites I know nothing about simply because I don't know much about the other sites. If Rou wants to make a noteworthy author list, or a noteworthy fic list, regardless of whether it's only for MOTK or it only contains authors that don't post on MOTK I would be strongly interested.
Basically, any system that makes it easier to find the Dolphin Rider Koishis, the A New Worlds, and the White Rose of Chireidens among all the Shoot the Moons sounds great to me.
There are two reasons I thought you meant fics on-site as well:
1. Because the library catalog (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4840.0.html) hasn't been updated in a while, and I thought you meant not all of the listings on-site would be archived. I wanted to apologize for thinking that, but also let you know that that's what I thought you meant when you said they wouldn't be archived.
2. Because we actually do have a lot of links off-site in the catalog. UsuallyDead, KimikoMuffin, and TakerFoxx are all in the catalog.
Anyway, absolutely yes to off-site recommendations, since I'm not going to find them on my own. I may not even know about some of the sites they are on, so a system for finding good fics and sites sounds wonderful.
EDIT: Incidentally, as a complete Mokou fanatic I hadn't read too many chapters at the time, but I did find Touhou: Journey to the Smashing Beyond (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5681268/1/Touhou_Journey_to_the_Smashing_Beyond) to be interesting. I mostly post it because it's one that you'll likely miss, due to it being in the crossover section and that I've never heard anyone here mention it.
Basically, it's pretty good, easily the longest touhou fic on fanfiction.net, and exactly the kind of thing that would probably be overlooked if there isn't a recommendation for it.
-
Hmm. I admit I haven't been working on any of my fics this past week, but: I'm kinda not sure about continuing to post my fics here, since I do so seldom enough that, well, it could be months between posts, and, y'know, the 14-day limit on stuff.
-
Hmm. I admit I haven't been working on any of my fics this past week, but: I'm kinda not sure about continuing to post my fics here, since I do so seldom enough that, well, it could be months between posts, and, y'know, the 14-day limit on stuff.
For what it's worth, the 14-day limit is waived for PSL and AAA and danmakufu projects.
-
There's an actual limit on posting times, as opposed to the usual nekomancery etiquette or the CPCM? Either way, that's good to hear, considering that I really need to put more shorts on the RSS...
-
There's an actual limit on posting times, as opposed to the usual nekomancery etiquette or the CPCM? Either way, that's good to hear, considering that I really need to put more shorts on the RSS...
I think you got that wrong. The 14-days-rule *is* the necromancy etiquette for the rest of the boards, but there is no rules on thread-necro for PSL, AAA and danmakufu projects, exactly because taking over two weeks before something new is posted is normal there.
-
Oh, okay, got it. I wasn't clear on that part.
-
Well, I was working on one of my stories, when Iced mentioned:
Er... Your writing seems very four komaish at best.
So I thought about it, and I agreed with him. I decided to leave Shoot the Moon behind and try to write less 4-komaish. Decided to ask E-Nazrin to help me edit, did a lot more detail. I posted the most recent chapter, and well...
Wow, this was super funny before and it just got all super serious. And what happened to poor Cirno? She's just a puddle now.
The problem is that I agree with both criticisms. So now I'm conflicted. I'm not really sure what direction I should take my stories to be good, to make them better, and to be better at this.
-
So, I'm considering trying my hand at submitting some short stories to journals, but frankly I don't have a clue how to actually go about it. Where to publish, what to write, who to aim for...anyone on PSL have experience with it?
-
Well, I was working on one of my stories, when Iced mentioned:
So I thought about it, and I agreed with him. I decided to leave Shoot the Moon behind and try to write less 4-komaish. Decided to ask E-Nazrin to help me edit, did a lot more detail. I posted the most recent chapter, and well...
The problem is that I agree with both criticisms. So now I'm conflicted. I'm not really sure what direction I should take my stories to be good, to make them better, and to be better at this.
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like it's bad without humor. It was just a really sudden change seeing it go from light-hearted and silly to something dark and serious. My suggestion, though easier said than done, is to try to find a middle ground. If you're going for that seriousness, then split up those dark plot points with moments of light humor, like you were doing before.
-
Note that when I said 4-komaish I was speaking not just about the humor, but about the flow.
-
Note that when I said 4-komaish I was speaking not just about the humor, but about the flow.
I noticed. I wrote the chapter completely differently because I wanted to work on the flow.
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like it's bad without humor. It was just a really sudden change seeing it go from light-hearted and silly to something dark and serious. My suggestion, though easier said than done, is to try to find a middle ground. If you're going for that seriousness, then split up those dark plot points with moments of light humor, like you were doing before.
Don't worry. The tone change isn't permanent. I think I'll keep the new flow, but I'm not going to make every chapter into a ghost story, and I happen to like the humor. Keep in mind though, that I agree; the tone change is very jarring, whether or not it's good without humor.
I think I need to continue having an actual plot. Not a dark plot, but a plot that can be taken seriously. I'm probably going to make it funny at the same time. Though I'm a little worried about sabotaging my own plot with humor.
-
Hello!
Ah, I've been lurking for some time. I'm kind of interested in maybe posting some of my writing up here from time to time, but can't seem to find a clear guideline on length allowed, or what all can be in a story? I'm not so worried about outright gore or sexuality or anything, but it really never hurts to double-check this things, especially in a case like myself. So, er, I thought I'd ask. :blush: Closed circle loop, yegads! I've also been tempted to incorporate visual or musical effects into my work... But am too lazy and|or without time to learn onscripter. I'm sure there's a message in their, somewhere, ehehe. Any recommendations on that? Well, I suppose that'll be all. Thanks!
-
We've got a few NSFW pieces here, and as long as its not over-the-top and taken to an extreme, pretty much anything goes, so long as it's not an eyesore to read. Even if it's not Touhou related, it's welcome here, but be warned - this IS primarily a Touhou forum. Don't expect a lot of interest in non-Touhou works.
If you want to post a story with sexually explicit scenes in it, just mark it in the Subject line with the {NSFW} prefix.
-
Ah, thankee! Well, in that case, I'll say with cheerfulness that my stuff should be good to go here! I'm all about subtle imagery - or what I *think* is subtle imagery, but turns out to be about as subtle as a jackhammer. But hey, so long as there is a place for my hackishness, I'd be honored and pleased to be here! :D
-
This just hit me, and I'm kinda fuzzy on it, but I figured I'd post it while it was fresh in my mind.
I've often said that newer writers should probably work on shorts, and for that matter that shorts are my favorite type of writing. I've had several reasons for the first, but now I think I know why I like shorts so much. They stick in the mind better then longer stories.
Why would I say that? Well think on this, we're all Touhou fans. What's the longest official piece of writing that involves your favorite Touhou character? Have you even read that writing? How long is the average doujin in terms of words?
As you can see, a small number of words can create a very memorable effect. I could probably recite "Exiles" or "Ramadan" from the Sandman to a passable degree, and they imediately pop to mind whenever I think about writing stories about stories or dreams. In a longer story the key themes might get caught in the plot, or get glossed over.
For that matter short stories and factoids tend to break down into seeds of stories quicker. Every time my literature teacher throws out a writing technique or narrative concept I find myself with a need to write it. Similarly looking up Laevatein for something completely unrelated reminded me that Loki kills and dies to the Rainbow Bridgekeeper Heimdell, something that's influenced my concept of Meiling and Flandre's relationship ever since.
That's not to say a longer story can't move someone, far from it. But I think a lot of people get caught up in their epic views of long stories and forget how a simple 5-10 pages can touch someones heart. Or at least give them something that lingers in the back of their mind.
And I'm rambling. :ohdear: Ah, well it just struck me for some reason today.
-
I like that view a lot. My writing is in journals and pieces of paper scattered around my room like some kind of creepy nest, ehehehe- but, seriously, most of my work is around that short, and part of the joy I find from it is finding ways to tie things together; this also goes for my longer works, but there is something magical about reading a well-loved story, perhaps five to ten pages long, noting the tenderness in the way it's been put together - and then finding continuity with something else. Or perhaps it's my love of connections and serendipity speaking...
Anyway, short stories tend to bear a stigma - they're shorter, so they must be 'easier' to produce (in addition, the idea that something easier to write is synonymous with worse, a bizarre form of mental sadomasochism.) And while that can be true, the best short stories are built from the love of the writer and the characters, which is often challenging to capture - but for writers of all skills and tempers, is amazingly satisfying to put to paper. It's like coming home to an old friend whose put the kettle on, or smelling fresh-baked bread, or some emotion unique to that writer's sense of happiness. Anyway, rambling - but I couldn't agree more.
-
I'll be honest: if a story is good, I want it to be long. If you engage me in a story, make me fall in love with the plot and the characters, and end it after ten pages, then I'll miss seeing those characters in action almost immediately (for me, the characters makes the story). I'll want to read on as soon as possible, and to see stories cut off so soon is a little sad when they're good. The better the story, the more disappointed I'll be when it ends.
-
I've actually thought about this for a while and found that shorts might be the best ways for me to write a story. Mostly in part due to how absolutely, fucking retarded I am to keeping my own stories updated at a steady pace. With a short story, I can just pop one out and just be done with it and not have to be at my own throat forcing myself to write another update. After all, my favorite author had alot of short stories~
I dunno, I hardly write enough to have an opinion anyhow, so meh.
-
To me, I'd say both are just as good as each other. In fact, with how I tend to do things (and the amount of ideas I spam in my notebooks) I write both for specific reasons.
For me, I'll go with this thing I tend to do. When I look at my plans, I make a note of:
what characters are involved
how many characters are involved
who it centres round
what the plot is
From there, I know whether to make it a short or a pretty long story. A story that involves less than 5 normally results in me making it a short story. However, if it focuses on less than five, but the five aren't together, I could be swayed to writing it some what longer. At the end of the day, it really depends on what you have in front of you.
On the other hand, I tend to write longer stories more often and, like most people, do struggle with keeping it all updated. However, I always come across moments where connections between my stories are sort of left hanging. This isn't intentional; it just happens. This is normally when short stories come into play (when I'm not doing them for contests and other stuff.) If I do a short story to tie up the ends of one story and lead it on to the start of the next, my mind often tells me that 'it's not as important since it's only a short.' But I know that isn't true since I find that events that happen in the shorts aren't spread out between chapters. This means that I feel like I can write as much detail about that event than I could in longer stories. (Unfortunately, I'm one of those that has to spread longer scenes across chapters for the sheer case of my mind won't allow it any other way in a long story.) Because of that, in my opinion, it allows me to take the reader along with me, rather than leaving them waiting mid-way through. It's good to do, but not every time.
Well, that's my opinion on the whole thing. As I said, I use each in a nice balance and wouldn't write any other way. ^^
-
Okay, so, first things first, hello everyone. I'm sort of new here and such. But, to the main point; I've been itching to write something lately, and I think I wanna' do a Touhou fanfic. Problem is I have issues with writing mainly because the -first- time I tried writing a fanfic in general, it turned out badly. I have one or two ideas in mind, but both of them would be self-inserts or OCs, and I have very little confidence in my ability to not screw it up. In other words, I think I'm asking:
A) Whether a self-insert fanfic is alright,
B) For a bit of help on how not to mess up this time (last time I failed because I have a habit of making stuff really short),
C) If there's a way that I could somehow make myself more confident that I can indeed pull this off right.
AndthiswouldbemehittingthesubmitbuttonbeforeIgettoonervousaboutpostingandchangemymindentirely.
-
A) Whether a self-insert fanfic is alright,
Sure it would be. What puts people off about self-inserts are when a writer depicts himself as being somehow unbelievably lucky or overpowered, e.g., "Reimu's eyes fell upon my rippling physique, her eyes filled with desire. I worried for a moment about Marisa getting jealous, but I'm a free agent, baby. That's just how I roll" would be an example of a poor self-insert (unless you were trying to be ironic). A good self-insert amounts to you just being yourself; a human, flawed, believable character.
B) For a bit of help on how not to mess up this time (last time I failed because I have a habit of making stuff really short),
"How can I write better?" is a pretty broad question, but the general rule to getting better at writing is, in my opinion, two-fold: keep reading good writing, and keep writing. Also learn to let other people read it, encourage their constructive criticism, and actually take what they say to heart.
C) If there's a way that I could somehow make myself more confident that I can indeed pull this off right.
Confidence brings on good writing, to be sure. I think that in the end, an artist creates to please themselves primarily, and as you write you should be thinking in terms of what sort of story appeals to you. If you like writing short comedies most of all, then chances are your short comedies are going to be your strongest pieces. The encouragement of the community here will also help you gain more confidence.
Criticism and the fear thereof also tends to poke holes in a writer's confidence. When you receive criticism, you can't let it shake you emotionally. Rather, step back, as if you were a friend of yours reading your story and your critic's remarks, and try to assess as rationally as possible how accurate the criticisms are. If they have merit, they will help you improve as a writer, and if they don't have merit, well, then you don't need to be concerned about them at all. So it's win-win, really.
-
A) It is, although I've been seeing a lot of these kinds of stories pop up. You have to be careful not to set your readers off, like what the other poster said.
B) Sometimes, short stuff are good. They just need to catch the attention of readers quickly to make up for the length.
C) I got nothing. Do what ZUN did; he just made the games so he could enjoy them. So write something you'll enjoy! And if you still think you're not going to execute it properly, ask for the advice of others. Get an editor.
why did I even post my advice sucks
-
Sure it would be. What puts people off about self-inserts are when a writer depicts himself as being somehow unbelievably lucky or overpowered, e.g., "Reimu's eyes fell upon my rippling physique, her eyes filled with desire. I worried for a moment about Marisa getting jealous, but I'm a free agent, baby. That's just how I roll" would be an example of a poor self-insert (unless you were trying to be ironic). A good self-insert amounts to you just being yourself; a human, flawed, believable character.
A) It is, although I've been seeing a lot of these kinds of stories pop up. You have to be careful not to set your readers off, like what the other poster said.
Hah. If anything I'd probably depict myself as having the worst luck anyone could possibly have (probably because, often times, I feel like I do), and me overpowered would.. Yeah, no, I can't see that. I personally believe I'm a walking construct of flaws and bad luck. Most of the time at least. >>
"How can I write better?" is a pretty broad question, but the general rule to getting better at writing is, in my opinion, two-fold: keep reading good writing, and keep writing. Also learn to let other people read it, encourage their constructive criticism, and actually take what they say to heart.
B) Sometimes, short stuff are good. They just need to catch the attention of readers quickly to make up for the length.
I think it's partly that I'm both used to seeing that the well-liked stories have chapters that are huge, and yet I sit down and write a chapter and it turns out to be two or three paragraphs.
Confidence brings on good writing, to be sure. I think that in the end, an artist creates to please themselves primarily, and as you write you should be thinking in terms of what sort of story appeals to you. If you like writing short comedies most of all, then chances are your short comedies are going to be your strongest pieces. The encouragement of the community here will also help you gain more confidence.
Criticism and the fear thereof also tends to poke holes in a writer's confidence. When you receive criticism, you can't let it shake you emotionally. Rather, step back, as if you were a friend of yours reading your story and your critic's remarks, and try to assess as rationally as possible how accurate the criticisms are. If they have merit, they will help you improve as a writer, and if they don't have merit, well, then you don't need to be concerned about them at all. So it's win-win, really.
C) I got nothing. Do what ZUN did; he just made the games so he could enjoy them. So write something you'll enjoy! And if you still think you're not going to execute it properly, ask for the advice of others. Get an editor.
Confidence... Is... Something I lack in many, many occasions. What little I have tends to be unhelpful, most of the time.
On criticism... I don't have much to say other than I'm very bad at understanding what the person means. Sometimes I'll take it the right way and sometimes I won't, I'm sort of weird like that.
As for enjoying it, I find it hard to take enjoyment in things I know (whether perceived or no) I'm bad at. Which ties into the whole confidence thing. Which ties into why the heck I haven't written anything yet.
But now I have to ask -more- questions. Namely, whether I'm planning on dropping myself into Gensokyo, or whether I plan on meeting a character here in this 'outside world'. Speaking of which, I dunno who I'd drop in. Probably Mokou though... Or... Yeah, I dunno. Stupid indecisiveness.
Also on an unrelated note, this is the longest post I've written in my life. Go me. >>;;
-
As for enjoying it, I find it hard to take enjoyment in things I know (whether perceived or no) I'm bad at. Which ties into the whole confidence thing. Which ties into why the heck I haven't written anything yet.
I think I got something. Maybe you could think of things you want but couldn't possibly do and tie this ambition to the Touhou-verse so that you can make a plot out of it. It doesn't have to be you, mind you; you could use anyone else like an OC or an already existing character in the Touhou canon.
For example, if I had the ambition of being better than everyone around me (a very wild dream), I could write about a youkai (say, Wriggle) who wants to become the strongest youkai of the forest she lives in, and we have to remember that powerful youkai can be found in so many places in Gensokyo, including the said forest. Since it's something you also want to do, maybe the things you want to write will come more easily to you, because you know you can relate to it.
-
I think I got something. Maybe you could think of things you want but couldn't possibly do and tie this ambition to the Touhou-verse so that you can make a plot out of it. It doesn't have to be you, mind you; you could use anyone else like an OC or an already existing character in the Touhou canon.
My first idea, the one where I drop a character into the outside world, was actually spawned out of a dream I had where I ended up with a sick Mokou staying in my house. It didn't really make sense to me either. >>
The -other- idea, was simply to drop me into Gensokyo and go from there. I dunno what the heck I'd be doing. I'm not sure which idea I want to do, or what character, for the first one.
-
For that other idea, well, I had that problem in my first (and scrapped) story, too. Then I had to think of a goal my OC wanted to reach for my current story. There always has to be a goal, or else, why is your character doing the things he's doing?
-
Yeah, that tends to be how I just hit a brick wall. I run out of ideas to use, and I can't think of any more, and so it kinda' just... Dies, really. If I went with the first idea I'd have a lot to do, particularly since I know much more about here than there. Plus, then I can make whoever I've got with me play games~
-
Hrm, the danger of OCs and the danger of wish fulfillment stories kinda overlap, in that in order to reach a goal a young writer will often screw up plot, flow or character in the process. This is especially true when you're doing a self insert wish fulfillment story.
The problem of course is it's hard to start writing if you don't want to write something. I could suggest seeing if you could write a story about Reimu and Marisa sitting down to tea as a good practice exercies, but it'd be a sucky exercise if you didn't like the idea.
So I think the best advice I can give you is think out where you want to go, read some good material in similar vein (I always suggest Sandman for Touhou work) and then take a stab at it.
-
i dunno about you guys but i won't want to read another "outsider lands in gensokyo" story, it's predictable as hell and most of the time it's a masturbatory fantasy
if you're really intent on writing such a story, think about what your character would offer gensokyo instead of a grand tour of gensokyo through yet another outsider's perspective. slice of life is fine but cute girls doing cute things loses its appeal. write a story with plot in mind first and then use the characters as you see fit, not the other way round
Honestly, I don't think I'd have much to offer Gensokyo, aside from maybe my ability to paint things (I'm not particularly patient with it, but I do well enough), or maybe building stuff. 'Sides, I dunno what I'd do in Gensokyo anyways~
Hrm, the danger of OCs and the danger of wish fulfillment stories kinda overlap, in that in order to reach a goal a young writer will often screw up plot, flow or character in the process. This is especially true when you're doing a self insert wish fulfillment story.
The problem of course is it's hard to start writing if you don't want to write something. I could suggest seeing if you could write a story about Reimu and Marisa sitting down to tea as a good practice exercies, but it'd be a sucky exercise if you didn't like the idea.
So I think the best advice I can give you is think out where you want to go, read some good material in similar vein (I always suggest Sandman for Touhou work) and then take a stab at it.
Wish fulfillment isn't really my goal as far as I know, although admittedly, having someone from Gensokyo come over to visit (in any way) would be pretty freaking awesome. I do rather like the idea of a freeform plot, though, where I just write out whatever I want until it comes to a suitable stopping point (and then maybe continuing it -anyway-, maybe tying idea 1 and idea 2 together?). As for not wanting to write it, I -do- want to write something, and it may as well be Touhou since that's the only thing I've touched recently, I'm just afraid it'll be received poorly because I did something wrong. Though, that's a constant no matter what I'm doing, really.
-
For the second part of your post, I suggest you read CS's short stories. There kinda like that.
-
If you really want to do an "outsider enters Gensokyo" story, just use Renko (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Renko_Usami) and Maribel (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Maribel_Hearn), and come up with your own spin on the whole "what the hell is Yukari's connection with Maribel, anyway?" deal. And you don't even have have to make up your own characters! ;)
I've been writing an article about OCs and why they're disliked, and how to do OCs well. Now I'll probably also have to devote a section to self-inserts, as well; my recommendation is, don't do it. I have to echo other peoples' advice here, use a "not based on the author" OC or a canon-character.
-
That or make OCs who is born in Gensokyo instead. I did that with Infiltrator.
-
The first rule of having an OC in a fic is to ensure that other characters exist. Your OC is an addition, not the be-all-and-end-all of the story.
Self-inserts are a dangerous territory, because there are some very bad ones in two distinct flavours - the 'I'm fantastic at everything' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) character, and the 'I'm not actually good at anything but everyone's still paying attention to me' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiSue) character.
Put simply, you want your character to be able to offer something to the group. A new viewpoint, a new personality, a new set of strengths and weaknesses. But if someone's the best at something you'd better have a DAMN good reason for your character to be better. For example, if you want to make a character who's a better swordsman than Youmu, he'd better have decades of intense training under his belt. He can't just be 'talented'.
If you want an otherwise ordinary human being in Gensokyo, it really isn't particularly viable - being a normal guy surrounded by superpowered girls means your character will either be overshadowed by the original cast or get more attention than he's due.
So in short, Touhou isn't a very good universe for self-insert humans. Youkai are probably a much better choice in terms of constructing an interesting story, because they give you a lot more power and potential to work with. Again, this power does have to be used responsibly, so don't make characters that are TOO amazing. Flaws build a character as much as strengths do, so strong characters typically have both.
-
For the second part of your post, I suggest you read CS's short stories. There kinda like that.
CS? Who's that?
If you really want to do an "outsider enters Gensokyo" story, just use Renko (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Renko_Usami) and Maribel (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Maribel_Hearn), and come up with your own spin on the whole "what the hell is Yukari's connection with Maribel, anyway?" deal. And you don't even have have to make up your own characters! ;)
I've been writing an article about OCs and why they're disliked, and how to do OCs well. Now I'll probably also have to devote a section to self-inserts, as well; my recommendation is, don't do it. I have to echo other peoples' advice here, use a "not based on the author" OC or a canon-character.
I prefer to use OCs because then I know exactly how they're going to act and such. I'm not good at doing that with canon characters, particularly with Touhou since I don't have a whole lot to go on.
...That said, now I can just use a Gensokyo OC instead of a canon character and plop her into the outside world, can't I?
That or make OCs who is born in Gensokyo instead. I did that with Infiltrator.
I might end up doing that, I think.
The first rule of having an OC in a fic is to ensure that other characters exist. Your OC is an addition, not the be-all-and-end-all of the story.
Self-inserts are a dangerous territory, because there are some very bad ones in two distinct flavours - the 'I'm fantastic at everything' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) character, and the 'I'm not actually good at anything but everyone's still paying attention to me' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiSue) character.
Put simply, you want your character to be able to offer something to the group. A new viewpoint, a new personality, a new set of strengths and weaknesses. But if someone's the best at something you'd better have a DAMN good reason for your character to be better. For example, if you want to make a character who's a better swordsman than Youmu, he'd better have decades of intense training under his belt. He can't just be 'talented'.
If you want an otherwise ordinary human being in Gensokyo, it really isn't particularly viable - being a normal guy surrounded by superpowered girls means your character will either be overshadowed by the original cast or get more attention than he's due.
So in short, Touhou isn't a very good universe for self-insert humans. Youkai are probably a much better choice in terms of constructing an interesting story, because they give you a lot more power and potential to work with. Again, this power does have to be used responsibly, so don't make characters that are TOO amazing. Flaws build a character as much as strengths do, so strong characters typically have both.
I have no intentions of going to either extreme. I have no (positive) illusions as to my skills, but I'm not horrible at -everything-. I'm definitely not going to be a match for even an underpowered youkai, in my opinion. I think the only thing I'd ever beat -anybody- at is maybe a card game. Maybe not even then. Though to be honest, I didn't really plan on writing that much fighting, at least for a while... But yeah, a Youkai OC would likely fit in better (though I think it might still be a self-insert in a way), if I knew what her abilities were. I have trouble making overpowered characters, to be honest. I could make a god character and still make him beatable by a human. I've done it once. I think it's harder for me to think of strengths than flaws, being the person that I am, but I can definitely try.
...Kay, hopefully I wrote that right and I'm not bouncing all over the place.
-
two distinct flavours - the 'I'm fantastic at everything' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) character, and the 'I'm not actually good at anything but everyone's still paying attention to me' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiSue) character.
I'm going to have to steal that exact phrasing. ;)
-
Well, this is kinda' bad. I don't know whether I want to use Mokou, or a Gensokyo OC.
[Facedesks.]
-
Again: what works best for the story you're planning?
-
Well, I can't think of anything that'd justify why Mokou would be there other than some plan of Kaguya's. More or less the same with said OC, though with a different character. Maybe Yukari got bored, or something. I want to use Mokou (Mainly 'cause I'm a Mokou fangirl), but I can't really think of a good reason.
-
Well, this is kinda' bad. I don't know whether I want to use Mokou, or a Gensokyo OC.
[Facedesks.]
It depends. And I couldn't know without knowing the story.
Mokou is Mokou. You pick her, you have someone who is very much defined by her immortality. Interpretation varies from their, but she's often defined as being a loner type and by her relationship with Kaguya and Keine.
You pick an OC, and you get an OC. I'm told that OC's can work, but they are really dangerous.
As someone who uses Mokou a lot, I have to say that she is the best choice if you want a story where a normal character would die repeatedly. I follow the belief that in a story, events should only happen if they are exactly what you would expect to happen. For example, if an OC picks a fight with Yuka, the OC should probably die; because that is what I would expect to happen when a normal person picks a fight with Yuka. I also would expect the OC to be a normal person - no handy dandy plot armor. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor) (warning: links to Tvtropes, which may cause lost hours.) For example, if the OC was created to be the center of the plot, I would assume a human OC would lose to Mystia, and a Youkai OC would be weaker or equal to Meiling. If your OC is created as a side character or to explain a plot point, the OC can be significantly more powerful. But generally speaking, I would not expect an OC to be very impressive in Gensokyo. naturally, this is not an overarching rule, and I tend to start flame wars with my opinions on writing, but it's a rule of thumb I tend to follow.
In addition to the rule of thumb, your OC should be treated no differently from the plot than any other character. If your OC can do it, other characters should be able to do it as well. The other characters in the story should react no differently to your OC at first than they would any other nameless character and should not befriend your OC unless they would befriend someone like your OC. You OC probably shouldn't have all the good ideas, or be the best at danmaku, or any of those things, and your OC probably shouldn't be anyones best friend because all the characters already have their circles of close friends worked out. For example, if your OC is friends with Cirno, she shouldn't be Cirno's best friend because Cirno barely knows your OC and has established ties to her other friends.
Basically, my rule of thumb is that any character in a story should be exactly what you would expect, and OCs are no different. If anything, if I were to make an OC, they would have quite a bit less protection and be on significantly less friendly terms with the canon characters than other canon characters, because my OC's would be very average and not have the connections to canon characters that the canon characters have to eachother.
These are the conditions under which I would consider writing an OC. You can write an OC however you want though, as fundamentally it's all up to you.
Well, I can't think of anything that'd justify why Mokou would be there other than some plan of Kaguya's. More or less the same with said OC, though with a different character. Maybe Yukari got bored, or something. I want to use Mokou (Mainly 'cause I'm a Mokou fangirl), but I can't really think of a good reason.
Heh. Have you read Mokou and Cirno Crossover into Pokemon (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7814.0.html)?
-
As for the story, I'm set on writing a self-insert where I end up having a character from Gensokyo staying with me for a while. It was a very weird dream I had at one point, and yes, the character was Mokou, before you ask. It's really the only idea I've had for anything Touhou-related that I could actually write, so I figured why not. Again, I more want to pick Mokou because of my fangirlishness, but at the same time I want to have a valid reason for her to be there, without being lazy about it. I didn't plan on much fighting taking place, mainly because it'd be rather short unless Mokou wasn't involved. I can't really say I've ever used plot armor, despite the numerous opportunities I've gotten to do so, not all of which were during fanfic writing, and I don't plan to.
On OCs, I would plan on writing her like I would any other character, really. She has her flaws, her strong points, and the things she's okay but not great at. Long stuff short, she's likely to be a Youkai or maybe (but not likely) a half-Youkai, and she's probably going to stay within reasonable rules. That is to say, she's not going to pick up something new and instantly know how to use it (like some people I've seen do in the past), or be invincible, or anything like that.
Also, Mokou and Cirno crossover into Pokemon?...... Yeah, no, I'll pass.
[Isn't a fan of Pokemon.]
-
As for the story, I'm set on writing a self-insert where I end up having a character from Gensokyo staying with me for a while. It was a very weird dream I had at one point, and yes, the character was Mokou, before you ask. It's really the only idea I've had for anything Touhou-related that I could actually write, so I figured why not. Again, I more want to pick Mokou because of my fangirlishness, but at the same time I want to have a valid reason for her to be there, without being lazy about it. I didn't plan on much fighting taking place, mainly because it'd be rather short unless Mokou wasn't involved. I can't really say I've ever used plot armor, despite the numerous opportunities I've gotten to do so, not all of which were during fanfic writing, and I don't plan to.
On OCs, I would plan on writing her like I would any other character, really. She has her flaws, her strong points, and the things she's okay but not great at. Long stuff short, she's likely to be a Youkai or maybe (but not likely) a half-Youkai, and she's probably going to stay within reasonable rules. That is to say, she's not going to pick up something new and instantly know how to use it (like some people I've seen do in the past), or be invincible, or anything like that.
Also, Mokou and Cirno crossover into Pokemon?...... Yeah, no, I'll pass.
[Isn't a fan of Pokemon.]
A half youkai that travels around with Mokou...
Without knowing the plot, I could suggest Keine, with the reason for being there involving history alteration/research. She is the only character Mokou is fairly sociable with, and you can have Keine going just about anywhere if the reason is to collect material for her classes - She could go to Chireiden to learn about the history of hell, the youkai mountain to learn more about the outside world, Yuka's flower field to learn about plant biology, or Hakugyokurou to learn about death. She would probably be the perfect character to insert yourself into for what you're describing.
-
Well, originally, it was going to be something along the lines of "Gensokyo character gets lost in the outside world, ends up staying with me until finding a way back". However, I do like the idea of Keine staying around to do research...
...I also now want to make myself a half-Youkai, and not know it.
[Facedesks again.]
-
Yeah, don't. Explore language problems (it'd be amusing) and trying not to get them to run amok everywhere, kidnapping humans/"exterminating" youkai by beating them over the head with gohei/doing drive-bys.
...
I just realized that two of my stories - "Eientei (eventually the rest of Gensokyo) deals with a tar-black, destructive Ex-Rumia)" and "Koishi and Satori fight off a demon invasion" sound extremely similar to Imperfect Metamorphosis and The White Rose of Chireiden.
Except the former's Ex-Rumia is more like a predatory Eldritch Abomination in the vein of The Thing that wants to be left alone and the latter is more DooM-styled (Makai was getting invaded as well). And neither of them delve much into POLITICS!
-
Yeah, don't.
Don't what? The half-youkai bit is what I'm -guessing-, but...
-
Half-youkai bit. Most people are going to scream Mary Sue at it and stop reading it, bad enough it's an SI. I don't doubt your writing, but it'll be most people's reactions.
-
Don't what? The half-youkai bit is what I'm -guessing-, but...
Half-youkai bit. Most people are going to scream Mary Sue at it and stop reading it, bad enough it's an SI. I don't doubt your writing, but it'll be most people's reactions.
You know, Keine IS a half youkai.
-
It'd be infinitely more likely that I'd perceive myself as an Anti Sue (not that everyone else agrees, mind you), considering that's how I do act a lot of the time.
...Then again, useless info is useless, huh?
-
It'd be infinitely more likely that I'd perceive myself as an Anti Sue (not that everyone else agrees, mind you), considering that's how I do act a lot of the time.
...Then again, useless info is useless, huh?
Maybe I should rephrase. You wanted to make yourself a half-youkai. There is already a half-youkai in canon. Therefore, you can make yourself the canon half-youkai.
I can't honestly say I don't use self-inserts, if only because I consider every character I ever write that has any level of depth to be an insertion of myself into the character - they're all characterized by facets of my personality and my interpretations of how I would behave in their shoes. Thus, I'm kind of wondering why you don't use the canon character as your self insert, since you want to insert yourself into Gensokyo as a half youkai anyway.
Unless the issue is that you don't want to insert yourself as that particular canon character, in which case nevermind.
Incidentally, an author self insert into a canon character needs some tinkering to work. When using a canon self insert, Keine isn't you, you are Keine. You are a were-beast that teaches in the human village and creates history. But Keine isn't you, the author, and won't act like you would in the same situations. Half the fun and the creativity is figuring out the things that your canon self insert does fundamentally different that you would expect, as a product of being themselves rather than you.
EDIT: I was just told on the IRC that what I mean is "extensions of my personality".
-
Erebus' key tips and tricks to writing OCs (in Touhou);
- First and foremost, avoid pumping them full of cool powers and all that. I know it's tough to resist, you like giving your custom character cool attacks and shit (anyone who's played a game that has a custom character feature would relate), but giving your OC a broken power that equals to Yukari is an obvious no-no. If you really want to give them a power, try to aim for something small and give them reasonable limiters. Maybe they can tank magic attacks, but can't do it unless they have a certain amount of energy. Perhaps they were blessed with the ability to control wax but, they lose all resistance to fire and heat (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._3), maybe they can't produce their own wax unless they have it on hand?
It pays to be creative with it, but also not to let yourself go overboard. It sounds restricting, but with the right amount of thinking you can pull it off.
- Second, make them support characters, if you can. People read Touhou fanfiction to see their favorite Touhous doing shit. Having a story focus on someone who isn't (technically) a Touhou is a good way to get folks to not pay attention to your stuff. You'll need to hold off on using them in any arcs or side stories that focus solely on them until people get a feel for the OC and can ultimately stand being apart from their favorite touhous to let you do your thing. If you can pull this off with little to no bitching from the audience, then you know you've done well with an OC.
- Lastly, if you really want to make your OC the focus of things, then it's best that you try and make them interesting characters (not saying that you shouldn't do this regardless). If people are going to be focusing on someone who is not a Touhou, then you need to give them a reason to pay attention to them. Otherwise you just won't catch anyone's interest. And before you say anything, yes...background/support characters CAN be interesting. Give them flaws, personality quirks, a bad habit, a moe verbal tic like 'Pwheee!', some angst COULD help in this department, but it's best to avoid it.
I've used OCs for...god knows how long in most of my short stories and these are pretty much the rules I go by. Never seemed to get any flak for any OCs I've used since then. Also, there's the usual Mary Sue traits to look out for, but those go without saying and should be something you're well aware of regardless.
Seems this was mentioned before...fuck it, I'm letting this be known here anyhow since I'm the only prolific user of OCs as it is anyway. I use OCs most of the time, because sometimes...Gensokyo just doesn't have what I'm looking for so I turn to my own creativity to add more spice to the story I wish to write. like in Mystic Mutation, there were no chimera in Gensokyo when I started writing it (which was years before Nue came along) and I needed one as a plot point in the story...what did I do? Make one, of course.
There were no dinosaurs in Gensokyo either and I needed one to appear in the story. So I made T-rex loli as a result. Sometimes I want to write a bit of romance, but I hate yuri in Touhou, so I make an OC to help give me some room.
Sure, OCs can be a bit dicey to use, but they can also open up new doors of creativity.
-
Erebus' key tips and tricks to writing OCs (in Touhou);
- First and foremost, avoid pumping them full of cool powers and all that. I know it's tough to resist, you like giving your custom character cool attacks and shit (anyone who's played a game that has a custom character feature would relate), but giving your OC a broken power that equals to Yukari is an obvious no-no. If you really want to give them a power, try to aim for something small and give them reasonable limiters. Maybe they can tank magic attacks, but can't do it unless they have a certain amount of energy. Perhaps they were blessed with the ability to control wax but, they lose all resistance to fire and heat (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._3), maybe they can't produce their own wax unless they have it on hand?
It pays to be creative with it, but also not to let yourself go overboard. It sounds restricting, but with the right amount of thinking you can pull it off.
- Second, make them support characters, if you can. People read Touhou fanfiction to see their favorite Touhous doing shit. Having a story focus on someone who isn't (technically) a Touhou is a good way to get folks to not pay attention to your stuff. You'll need to hold off on using them in any arcs or side stories that focus solely on them until people get a feel for the OC and can ultimately stand being apart from their favorite touhous to let you do your thing. If you can pull this off with little to no bitching from the audience, then you know you've done well with an OC.
- Lastly, if you really want to make your OC the focus of things, then it's best that you try and make them interesting characters (not saying that you shouldn't do this regardless). If people are going to be focusing on someone who is not a Touhou, then you need to give them a reason to pay attention to them. Otherwise you just won't catch anyone's interest. And before you say anything, yes...background/support characters CAN be interesting. Give them flaws, personality quirks, a bad habit, a moe verbal tic like 'Pwheee!', some angst COULD help in this department, but it's best to avoid it.
I've used OCs for...god knows how long in most of my short stories and these are pretty much the rules I go by. Never seemed to get any flak for any OCs I've used since then. Also, there's the usual Mary Sue traits to look out for, but those go without saying and should be something you're well aware of regardless.
Seems this was mentioned before...fuck it, I'm letting this be known here anyhow since I'm the only prolific user of OCs as it is anyway. I use OCs most of the time, because sometimes...Gensokyo just doesn't have what I'm looking for so I turn to my own creativity to add more spice to the story I wish to write. like in Mystic Mutation, there were no chimera in Gensokyo when I started writing it (which was years before Nue came along) and I needed one as a plot point in the story...what did I do? Make one, of course.
There were no dinosaurs in Gensokyo either and I needed one to appear in the story. So I made T-rex loli as a result. Sometimes I want to write a bit of romance, but I hate yuri in Touhou, so I make an OC to help give me some room.
Sure, OCs can be a bit dicey to use, but they can also open up new doors of creativity.
YES! A basic guide to writing OCs! Why hasn't anyone done this before? :getdown:
-
Maybe I should rephrase. You wanted to make yourself a half-youkai. There is already a half-youkai in canon. Therefore, you can make yourself the canon half-youkai.
True.I can't honestly say I don't use self-inserts, if only because I consider every character I ever write that has any level of depth to be an insertion of myself into the character - they're all characterized by facets of my personality and my interpretations of how I would behave in their shoes. Thus, I'm kind of wondering why you don't use the canon character as your self insert, since you want to insert yourself into Gensokyo as a half youkai anyway.
Unless the issue is that you don't want to insert yourself as that particular canon character, in which case nevermind.
I'd rather not. The main reason I want to use an OC/self-insert is more or less because I'm bad at figuring out how canon characters would act in a given situation. Probably why writing characters I didn't make is hard for me. >>
...I just thought about what some of the people I know would say to that.
"So? Practice."
Erebus' key tips and tricks to writing OCs (in Touhou);
- First and foremost, avoid pumping them full of cool powers and all that. I know it's tough to resist, you like giving your custom character cool attacks and shit (anyone who's played a game that has a custom character feature would relate), but giving your OC a broken power that equals to Yukari is an obvious no-no. If you really want to give them a power, try to aim for something small and give them reasonable limiters. Maybe they can tank magic attacks, but can't do it unless they have a certain amount of energy. Perhaps they were blessed with the ability to control wax but, they lose all resistance to fire and heat (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._3), maybe they can't produce their own wax unless they have it on hand?
It pays to be creative with it, but also not to let yourself go overboard. It sounds restricting, but with the right amount of thinking you can pull it off.
I was actually thinking about what powers I -did- want to use. I came up with these:
- Probably accelerated healing
- A limited control over water, maybe?
- Skill with either swords, a bow, or maybe a quarterstaff. I'm unsure which.
And hopefully it's not too limited and not too good. >>
- Second, make them support characters, if you can. People read Touhou fanfiction to see their favorite Touhous doing shit. Having a story focus on someone who isn't (technically) a Touhou is a good way to get folks to not pay attention to your stuff. You'll need to hold off on using them in any arcs or side stories that focus solely on them until people get a feel for the OC and can ultimately stand being apart from their favorite touhous to let you do your thing. If you can pull this off with little to no bitching from the audience, then you know you've done well with an OC.
- Lastly, if you really want to make your OC the focus of things, then it's best that you try and make them interesting characters (not saying that you shouldn't do this regardless). If people are going to be focusing on someone who is not a Touhou, then you need to give them a reason to pay attention to them. Otherwise you just won't catch anyone's interest. And before you say anything, yes...background/support characters CAN be interesting. Give them flaws, personality quirks, a bad habit, a moe verbal tic like 'Pwheee!', some angst COULD help in this department, but it's best to avoid it.
That was, more or less, why I wanted to tie my two plot ideas together, with the first part being mainly focused on either Mokou or Keine, most likely, and then the second part shifting focus more to OC/self-insert. The first bit would be both a bit of a test to see A) How well I'm doing, and B) To see how well OC/Self-insert is received.
...Or... Yeah, something like that.
-
So apparently no one in any country can teach English worth a damn before the Senior year of college. If you're lucky.
However there's actually a lot of literary theory out there that can be useful for getting ideas. Narrative styles, wording techniques and characterization patterns that might turn on a little light bulb.
So here's a glossary of those terms : http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/lit_terms_A.html I wouldn't suggest treating these as gospel. After all the best works usually differ from the formula, but they're great for outlining.
-
I wouldn't suggest treating these as gospel.
I can't think of anything I -would- treat as gospel. But yeah, I'll take a look.
-
Totally tooting my own horn, here, but Fresh Faces in the Kaleidoscope (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6598.0.html) was my entry in the 'Self-insert Prompt' for the Weekly Writing Challenge way back when. I had a lot of fun with tweaking it - for example, I am not a girl, though to make it flow with Touhou's canon better, I did a self gender-swap, and fiddled a bit with the personality. End result was a character heavily based enough on me that you could point at it and say 'yep, that's Esi,' but at the same time, had room to develop into a character of her own.
I addressed the issue of powerlevels by using Yukari as my plot coupon - she would be able to outfit Sara with the gear she would need to help her survive not just a feral youkai attack, but the wilderness itself. On top of that, her high empathy slowly evolves into raw telepathy, earning her a satori-like status as a minor youkai. Despite suddenly gaining magical mind-reading powers and being a quasi-youkai, Sara was still terribly weak - relying entirely on spellcards to be any manner of a threat because of how useless she was with a sword - and in fact was nowhere near as good as she thought she was. Yes, Yukari and Reimu end up having to pay attention to my wretched creation, but in my opinion (again, self-horn tooting) it was justified. Even though the story was told from Sara's perspective, she ended up becoming an antagonist to Gensokyo, and we all know who handles troublemakers. A potent troublemaker in that she was planning to willfully wreak havoc with her growing mind-powers, and essentially mind-rape the majority of the human village.
I'm operating under the assumption that you're not fully reading everything being linked to you, so I'll sum it up - Sara is yanked from the real world to Gensokyo by Yukari, originally looking for more breeding stock. Since Sara's life was in danger, Yukari pulled her along just to be a Good Samaritan. Exposed to the highly magical nature of Gensokyo, Sara's latent psychic nature - high empathy - begins developing into proper telepathy. Before she's clued in to this, Yukari feigns being disinterested in caretaking Sara anymore and dumps her outside the human village, conveniently in Koishi's path. At this point - like Erebus suggested - Sara becomes a supporting character for Koishi, using the full youkai as a sort of sounding board and role-model while Koishi drags her around by the hand (figuratively). Upon reaching the human village, Koishi leaves Sara to continue being a vagrant, and Sara ingratiates herself with the town guard because of the armor and sword Yukari had generated for her. The guard later organizes a hunt for a feral youkai that had been preying on their livestock, and requests Sara take point because of said armor and S'n'S. Sara inadvertently ruins her reputation with the guard by unleashing combined spellcards, causing her to not only attack the feral youkai but also some of the guards. Later, she reveals that she found out that she's developing telepathy, and suddenly the guard is suspicious of her. She decides to leave the village, but on the way out is accosted by three guardsmen. She fights them, again relying on dumb luck and spellcards to overpower them and escape the village. Yukari brings Koishi and Sara both back to Mayohiga and presses upon Koishi to train Sara in how to control her telepathy. After a short while (training montage! woo), Koishi and Yukari are both satisfied with Sara's progress and Yukari once again unleashes Sara upon Gensokyo. Sara, however, was still harboring resentment towards the town guard and wanted to explain her case, or at the very least, exact revenge on the guards. Koishi picks up on this and warns Yukari, who'd had suspicions of this, and Yukari goes to Reimu, and together confront Sara and Koishi, who in the intermittent time has befriended Sara after she explained herself and promised not to act vengefully. Reimu and Yukari don't hear this exchange, and instead Reimu launches directly into an attack and subdues both psychics. Yukari then wipes Sara's memories and gaps her over to Mangekyou, or, the MotK-verse, and just wipes Koishi's memories of the incident, to prevent Koishi from trying to find gaps in the boundaries between the worlds and leaving Gensokyo/trying to pursue Sara into Mangekyou/being a Wandering Koishi.
The End, except not really because now Sara is known as Esifex and is one of the Librarians and the continuing story can be read in the Librarian Stories :O
-
I actually -do- try to read the stuff people link to me. I don't always comment on it, but I do read it. Though, the part with Yukari erasing Sara's memory reminded me of a book I read. That one turned out... A bit better, to say the least.
I had a lot of fun with tweaking it - for example, I am not a girl, though to make it flow with Touhou's canon better, I did a self gender-swap, and fiddled a bit with the personality. End result was a character heavily based enough on me that you could point at it and say 'yep, that's Esi,' but at the same time, had room to develop into a character of her own.
I'm considering doing the same thing to myself (minus the gender-swap, though). I doubt I'd be a good character to read about as I am currently. >>
-
I am now going to interrupt the current discussion with something entirely unrelated! :justasplanned:
The other day, I was talking to some writers on another site and talking about how to write fight scenes. One of them linked me to this (http://impishidea.com/writing/29/writing-action-scenes-part-1) and its page 2, but the link is currently dead. However, I still have the content, and so I shall repost it here, as the question of how to write action scenes comes up fairly often 'round these parts.
Writing Action Scenes (Part 1)
Action sequences and fight scenes are a necessary element of many genres of stories, but they are also tricky to write. In fact, some published authors write terrible action sequences.
Mistakes
Let?s begin by examining a passage from Eldest.
The monsters had the advantage of surprise and quickly cut down four men, forcing the rest of the warriors, men and dwarves alike, to cluster around Ajihad in an attempt to protect him. Swords and axes clashed as the groups pressed together. Light flashed from one of the Twins, and an Urgal fell, clutching the stump of his severed arm.
For a minute, it seemed the defenders would be able to resist the Urgals, but then a swirl of motion disturbed the air, like a faint band of mist wrapping itself around the combatants. When it cleared, only four warriors were standing: Ajihad, the Twins, and Murtagh. The Urgals converged on them, blocking Eragon?s view as he stared with rising horror and fear. (p. 10)
So, as you might have guessed, this is a poor action sequence. I could make a long list of why this is so, so I will.
Lack of detail.
?The monsters had the advantage of surprise and quickly cut down four men.? How? How were the men cut down? How many Urgals cut down four men? Did they cut down four men in an organized thrust of halberds? Did a bunch of them just run in with machetes? The point of a fight scene to convey the movement of the fight to the reader. My mental image of this line, as it is written is, ?Four Urgals step up together, raise their swords, and behead four men.? Real exciting.
?Swords and axes clashed as the groups pressed together, but then a swirl of motion disturbed the air, like a faint band of mist wrapping itself around the combatants. When it cleared, only four warriors were standing.? Have you ever watched one of those really old animated cartoons, like Tom and Jerry? Often when the characters got in a fight, you would see that cheesy dust cloud and an occasional limb, instead of the actual fight. This was for two reasons. Animating an actual fight is a lot of work, and animation was hard back then. And also because the animators thought some of the fighting was inappropriate for adults. It?s almost like this book was written in a really lazy way, and portraying actual combat would be too much work, or this book desperately wants to be a young adults' novel, which I guess it is.
Sentence Length
In a fight scene sentences should be kept short. More on this later.
Bad Writing for Plot Convenience
Bad tactics. For battle trained warriors, these people demonstrate a stunning lack of tactics. Since it should be obvious that the Urgals are trying to kill Ajihad his men shouldn?t be clustering around him. The Urgals start behind the men. So if Ajihad?s men really want to save him, they should form a line to block the Urgals, allowing Ajihad to run ahead and back to safety. But since Ajihad?s death was a plot device, it doesn?t matter.
Spacial inconsistency. ?The Urgals converged on them, blocking Eragon?s view.? As I recall, Ajihad was already surrounded by tons of men, dwarves, and Urgals. Why is it that only now Eragon?s view is bad? Because him not seeing Murtagh and the twins escape is another plot device.
Now, let?s address some of these points, and see how we might be able to fix them.
Detail
A fight scene is all about conveying detail, but a different kind of detail than normal description.
Consider:
?Jaecyn avoided the sword. The sword was pure steel, wrought in steamforges before the plague, and it was decorated with gold leaf and emeralds. Jaecyn attacked.?
Versus:
?Jaecyn avoided the sword. Jaecyn attacked.?
Which do we prefer? The first conveys more information, but at a high cost. The flow of the fight is ruined by the description. In a longer description of a fight, where the tempo is established, this would stop the action dead. This actually applies to more than just action sequences. Generally long blocks of description disrupt the story.
Now consider:
?Jaecyn avoided the sword. Jaecyn attacked.?
And then:
?Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at Lord Strent?s extended arm.?
Again, we prefer the second choice. Instead of using the vague terms ?avoid?,?attack? some of the actual movement is shown. This is the kind of detail that we need. However, this still isn?t where we want it.
Actors vs. Actions
When writing these scenes, verbs need to be attributed to the actors.
This has half of it:
?Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at Lord Strent?s extended arm.?
This is better:
?Lord Strent thrust his sword arm forward to stab. Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at Lord Strent?s extended arm.?
Now the action is actually attributed to someone, and it isn?t just mysteriously there. Now we have a problem, the sentences are long and clunky.
Even better:
?Lord Strent thrust his sword forward to stab. Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at the extended arm.?
For the purposes of imagining this scene, we only need to know Jaecyn shifted right, and not something slightly different and more specific. This cuts down on clunky-ness in the sentence. Further, now that the action is clearer, we don?t have to signal that an action is made to ?attack? or ?Evade? or such nonsense.
?Lord Strent thrust his sword forward. Jaecyn shifted right, and cut at the extended arm.?
This still isn?t perfect, but we will stop here for the moment. We will further refine this in part two of the article.
----
Writing Action Scenes (Part 2)
Action-Reaction
Fight scenes are nothing if not Action-Reaction. The name should be pretty self descriptive. We are pretty familiar with this concept already.
Lord Strent thrust his sword forward. Jaecyn shifted right.
That was an action-reaction sentence.
Jaecyn shifted right to avoid Lord Strent?s thrust.
That was not an action-reaction sentence, because we placed the reaction before the action. This is something you?ll want to avoid, because it disrupts flow. If you have a series of action-reaction sentences and then suddenly you pull a reaction-action things get thrown off. The reader should see the reason for the reaction before the reaction. Thus action-reaction.
Action-reaction plays an important role in portraying a fight. The person with action is implied to have the initiative in the fight, as the other person is reacting to his movements. When the direction of the battle switches, ie. someone takes the initiative you break the paragraph, and then continue with the action-reaction sequence.
Changing Initiative
Strent chopped down. Jaecyn raised the chair, and caught the sword in the back of the chair. Strent raised his sword and tried again. The wood splintered, but this time the sword stuck in the chair. Jaecyn twisted the chair, trying to wrench Strent?s sword out of his hand.
Observe the first two action-reaction pieces. ?Strent chopped down. Jaecyn raised the chair? and ?Strent raised his sword and tried again. The wood splintered?. Even though in the second action-reaction, Jaecyn?s action isn?t explicitly stated, his action is implied. But then the underlined next sentence begins with an action by Jaecyn?he has gained the initiative here, and the following paragraph will involve Jaecyn?s actions and Lord Strent?s reactions.
Interruptions
This is another way initiative can be stolen. When the first person has the initiative, but is interrupted during his action.
Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. He ducked as the china exploded overhead.
Here Lord Strent has gained the initiative, he turned what was going to be Jaecyn?s action into his Action-Reaction. Jaecyn is forced to react to his interruption.
Caveats
There is a caveat here. For concurrent actions, the action-reaction model doesn?t exactly work. You?ll still want to start with the action of whoever has the initiative, even if they are happening at the same instant. This can help preserve flow.
While Lord Strent swung, Jaecyn lunged forwards.
In the larger context of several action-reaction models, this doesn?t sound at all out of place. The important thing is to be mindful of the way words can change the time frame we view things in.
Lord Strent cut, Jaecyn stabbed.
Sounds like they are taking turns.
Lord Strent cut and Jaecyn stabbed.
Sounds more like they are acting in the same moment. I?ll use this to lead into a discussion of time flow.
Time
Time in fight scenes can be kind of tricky, because there are two interactions. On one hand, sentence and clause length functions as an indicator of time.
He cut.
Sounds like it happened faster than
He twisted his wrist in an elaborate circular motion to cut.
Doesn?t it? This is why the following is a bad passage:
?Out of the corner of one eye, Eragon watched as a humpbacked figure leaped toward him, extending its leaf-bladed sword so as to impale him. The world seemed to contract around the thin, narrow point; the tip glistened like a shard of crystal, each scratch a thread of quicksilver in the bright light of dawn.
He only had time for one more spell before he would have to devote himself to stopping the Ra?zac from inserting the sword between his liver and kidneys. In desperation, he gave up trying to directly harm the Lethrblaka and instead cried, ?Garjzla, letta!?
It was a crude spell, constructed in haste and poorly worded, yet it worked. The bulbous eyes of the Lethrblaka with the broken wing became a matched set of mirrors, each a perfect hemisphere, as Eragon?s magic reflected the light that otherwise would have entered the Lethrblaka?s pupils. Blind, the creature stumbled and flailed at the air in vain attempts to hit Saphira.
Eragon spun the hawthorn staff in his hands and knocked aside the Ra?zac?s sword when it was less than an inch from his ribs. The Ra?zac landed in front of him and jutted out its neck. Eragon recoiled as a short, think beak appeared from within the depths of its food. The chitinous appendage snapped shut just short of its hood.? (p. 46)
Those two bold sentences are the Action and the Reaction. Remember, it is Action-Reaction, not Action-awholelotofotherstuffthatjustgetsintheway-Reaction. With so many words there, that felt like the world?s slowest leap and thrust, didn?t it? In fact, everything in this scene seems to happen in slow motion, as the Action-Reaction is constantly being delayed by words. Sentence length plays a big role in the perception of time. Any word that isn?t essential to the understanding of the scene should be cut, so that the action is crisp and clean, not cluttered. I?ll use that to lead into our discussion of description.
Description
Let?s revisit a but of that excerpt.
?Out of the corner of one eye, Eragon watched as a humpbacked figure leaped toward him, extending its leaf-bladed sword so as to impale him. The world seemed to contract around the thin, narrow point; the tip glistened like a shard of crystal, each scratch a thread of quicksilver in the bright light of dawn. ? (p. 46)
This is wrong. The description interrupts the narrative flow, is terrible, and isn?t appropriate for an action sequence. There are only two kinds of description that are appropriate in action sequences. There is the kind you would remember in the heat of action. Imagine you were in the middle of a bull run in Spain. What would you notice in the moment? Probably the flashes of red, the smell of sweat, and the shouting. In fact, these are the things that you can describe if you must. Color, smell, and sound. Perhaps feel, if appropriate. These are the things someone in the moment would be capable of observing. In the middle of a bull run, you won?t have time to compare the red of the headbands and cloaks to flowing blood and the lips of your lover. If you have that kind of time, it?s probably because a bull has trampled you, and you are dying. Poetic imagery isn?t for survivors.
The other kind of appropriate description is anything important to the reader?s understanding of the physical circumstances.
Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. He ducked as the china exploded overhead.
Here the description of china plate is acceptable as a description of the physical properties of the plate. It won?t simply clatter like a metal plate would.
Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. He ducked as the plate exploded overhead.
It could be argued that once you add the second paragraph you could remove the china descriptor, because the fragility of the plate is now implied. However, I kept it in as an indicator of status. As always, there are exceptions to rules that can be made.
Use the Environment
Far too often, fights just happen in generic open spaces, and the author gives no consideration to how terrain might affect a fight. The fight we read above from Brisingr is purported to be fought in a cave, but this is never an important fact. Are the characters? movements ever constrained due to the low space? Do people ever use chokepoints in tunnels to make sure they aren't double-teamed? No, no. There seems to be infinite space in this cave, because these enormous Godzilla-esque lizards are prancing around in it. Saphira is getting attacked by two Lethrblaka. If she backed into a narrow tunnel, only one would be able to fight her at a time.
You should always keep your setting in mind when choreographing a fight. High ground is useful for people who leverage that advantage. A fight on a staircase will only feel like a fight on a staircase if you keep aware of the inherent dangers present. One false step and you could tumble to your death.
Putting This Together
I?ll go through the process for writing a fight scene.
It?s important to keep your characters in mind, so I?ll give some background. Jaecyn has just returned from an exile imposed in large part by the Strent family. Although he is suspicious, he cannot afford to offend, so he attends a feast hosted by the Strents to ?celebrate? his return. Lord Strent has other ideas. Jaecyn fights with a smallsword, primarily used for quick thrusts. Lord Strent comes from a traditional school of sword fighting that favors using a cutting weapon to deliver a single fatal stroke. He uses a broader blade to cut. Jaecyn has the advantage of reach and quickness here. The battle takes place in a feast hall, so the long table will be the center piece of the action.
Jaecyn was the only one in the hall. He sat at the head of the long table, across from the entrance. For the time, he enjoyed the food alone. Lord Strent strode into the room. Jaecyn saw the black scowl on his face, and stood up from his chair, alarmed. Lord Strent drew his sword, and now Jaecyn was sure. I can?t say I didn?t expect this.
He approached from the right. Jaecyn circled, keeping the table between them. As they circled, Jaecyn got closer and closer to the doorway. He glanced at the open door. Lord Strent saw the look, and dashed for the doorway. Caught off guard, Jaecyn sprinted, but Strent got there first. Lord Strent cut, and Jaecyn had to slow and scramble back to avoid being hit. Strent slammed the door shut while Jaecyn regained his footing and drew his smallsword.
?Please let me leave,? said Jaecyn.
?I don?t think so.?
Lord Strent charged, holding his sword low. Jaecyn rapidly backtracked. Strent swept his sword in an upward arc. Jaecyn braced; intercepted with the forte of his sword. His sword was nearly swept away as the cut swung past. Lord Strent rushed past, and turned to charge again. As Strent approached a second time, Jaecyn vaulted over the table, knocked over a jar of wine, and landed on the other side.
?Coward,? said Strent as he faced Jaecyn across the table.
?Better than dead, at any rate.?
Strent tried to cross the table, but Jaecyn threatened. Strent cut, and Jaecyn stepped back as Strent bumped into the table. He lunged and thrust his sword forward. Jaecyn sidestepped, and struck Strent?s outstretched arm.
?Agh!?
Strent grimaced, then grabbed a chair and lobbed it. Jaecyn hesitated. I should duck. Strent jumped onto the table, kicking aside several plates of fowl. The chair struck Jaecyn and he managed to avoid injuring impact by catching the chair. Strent hopped down and faced Jaecyn. Reeling slightly, Jaecyn took a step back. Strent chopped down. Raising the chair, Jaecyn caught the sword in the back. Strent raised his sword and tried again. The wood splintered, but this time the sword stuck in the chair.
Jaecyn twisted the chair, trying to wrench the sword out of Strent?s hand. He twisted back and the sword broke free. He readied another attack, but Jaecyn pushed the splintered back of the chair into his stomach. He staggered, as the breath him. Jaecyn took this chance to dive across the table, flying into all manner of puddings and utensils.
He landed with a half tumble and tried to ignore the broken piece of bowl he landed on. Standing and drawing three daggers, he threw them. Strent roared as one glanced off his forehead and left a long cut. Another struck his left shoulder, and stuck.
Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. Jaecyn ducked as china exploded overhead. By the time he got up Lord Strent was already across the table, scattering salad bowls in his wake. Jaecyn lost his composure, he panicked, there wasn?t enough time to think.
Snarling, Strent cut vertically. Jaecyn tried to sidestep, but there was no space. As the stroke bore down Jaecyn was forced to block, and he was driven to his knees. Strent swung at Jaecyn?s neck. Jaecyn tumbled backwards and away.
?Why are you trying to kill me??
?You murdered my son!?
?It, it was an unfortunate accident, for all of us.?
?This?ll be an accident too, you bastard.?
Lord Strent charged. Stubborn. He wants to deliver the deathstroke. Jaecyn grabbed a heavy cauldron and flung it in his path. There was a flash and a crunch, and Strent was on the floor screaming as the hot soup scalded him. Jaecyn jumped forward, landed on Strent?s stomach. Amid the soup he saw a bulging adam?s apple and slashed at it. Blood ruptured from beneath the covering of soup as Strent gurgled.
When Jaecyn finally stood, the blood intermingled with the overturned soup. The red blended and swirled in the soft cream. He breathed heavily, trying to regain his composure, but as he breathed in the savory smell of the soup the sharp stench of blood overwhelmed. He held his breath, trying to avoid it, but it was too much. He heaved up the meal he had just eaten. He fell to his knees in exhaustion. And there was Lord Strent, dead, amid what had been a perfectly good clam chowder.
I think my favourite part was "Poetic imagery isn?t for survivors. " :V
Anyway, this isn't perfect, but I think it should serve as some kind of placeholder answer to those people who ask how to write action scenes, at least!
-
Ooh, interesting! I may just have to give this a more thorough read-through for when I need it.
-
Indeed. Some good stuff there. I'll have to review it.
-
Very informative and useful. I haven't really written a lot of action-y stuff, but that's still helpful information to keep in mind for the future.
-
Thanks, Ruro. That's a great help. By any chance, will you also post part 2 as well? I'd like to see the rest of it if at all possible.
-
I'm terrible at action sequences, so I'm glad you posted that. I'll try to put some of these into practice.
-
Thanks, Ruro. That's a great help. By any chance, will you also post part 2 as well? I'd like to see the rest of it if at all possible.
It's there, I just didn't want to split it into two posts. Beginning with Action-Reaction.
-
It's there, I just didn't want to split it into two posts. Beginning with Action-Reaction.
Oh, okay. Thanks a lot, then.
-
Wonder if my STALKER/Touhou story would have qualified for the weekly writing challenge.
-
Depends. I think WWC topics can be suggested to the PSL bigwigs, not entirely sure though, but give it a shot anyway if you wanna give it a try. Although, don't expect to many entries since this sounds like the kinda deal that only a select few will be able to jump in on (since not everyone knows of STALKER).
Also, bleh quitting on WWC leaves a sour taste in my mouth, but with what I have planned my recently cancelled entry will see the light of day anyhow so at least I'll get to get out there (eventually).
-
Let's hope the next WWC is something I could manage to write.
Hopefully.
-
The dream prompt was something I could have entered. Too bad I was too lazy.
*Crow groans in regret
-
http://borderofgensokyo.foroactivo.com/f40-fanmade-patchy-s-library
Can I take this as an excuse to rename this place after a better character and call it Aya's Awesome Archives
BV BV BV
-
(http://i56.tinypic.com/125t747.jpg)
But then we'd lose the demon assistants. We can't have that!
Also "AAA"? :P
-
Damnit, I just want to get away from those awful people at the SDM, how dare you remind me of Koa and how cute she is ;__;
-
Chireiden's Archives of Writings.
We could be themed after Okuu. CAW, CAW!
-
Coveted Holding of Emotional Narrative.
or
Cumilative Happiness through Experiences New
CHEEEEEEEEN
-
What.
I told you about the names, bro. I told you, dog!
-
Welp. (http://www.fanfiction.net/community/Patchoulis_Library/90156/)
-
Viole, or whatever the real name for the SDM Library was.
Because none of the Touhou fanboys are smart enough to think of the real name of the library.
-
Viole, or whatever the real name for the SDM Library was.
Because none of the Touhou fanboys are smart enough to think of the real name of the library.
Voile, and hi. (http://voile.gensokyo.org/)
-
Tengu Mountain Newspaper Archives, with Hatate's Souvenir Shop as the new Koakuma's. Need something for the Momizi fans, though...
-
Tengu Mountain Newspaper Archives, with Hatate's Souvenir Shop as the new Koakuma's. Need something for the Momizi fans, though...
Momizi's Monthly Manuscripts to replace the WWC? May as well start being honest. ;3
-
I hate you, but I like it.
:flowerpower:
-
Except that Aya is already assigned to the FPH, since there is a *Bunbunmaru* tag and all. And our tag is *Librarians*, which kinda needs a library to work with.
If ya want stuff to worry about, pick real problems, will ya? :P
-
inb4 Librarians changed to Bouncer Tengu or Reporter Tengu
-
All the cool writers get let in :<
-
A couple of questions:
1) How do I shot web, or rather, what's the usually accepted way to post a fic here? Should I copy/paste inside a new reply? Start a new thread?
2) This is important: I'm not a native English speaker (Brazilian here) AND I'm trying to write. So I think I ideally need a native speaker that could proof-read for me. I kind of got 28 pages (and counting!) written already and my grammar and sentence construction is as good as you're seeing here. Worse if I'm in a roll.
-
1) I'd rather that someone else answer no. 1, but as I've seen so far it's starting a new thread. I'm not entirely sure, though.
2) Maybe I could help you with the proof-reading. :getdown:
-
The usually accepted way of posting a fic is to start a new thread.
In addition, I can proof read grammar. But I find the best way to get a proofreader is to go to the PPIrC channel linked below and ask for a proofreader. Although I can proofread grammar, a lot of people seem to have a less than postive impression of my story quality, so I may not be the best person to ask if you want more general advice. (Besides grammar, spelling, and how to add comedy. I can (probably) do that.)
http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=scarlet-library
-
Argh.
Bleh.
I'm wondering if I should a few of my stories into one alternate-universe Gensokyo or leave them as standalones. A lot of my stories (including the Flandre/Yuuka one) are based off one continuous RP, but the co-author/other player doesn't really care much for the novelization and I'm trying to rewrite Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers (due to getting dinged on another fanfiction board for it, due to the whole "Flandre has a rather interesting reaction to Yuuka's blood" scene).
-
(due to getting dinged on another fanfiction board for it...).
Dinged?
And does this mean that someone else came along and said some flippant comment about how your story should go and you decided to change it?
Really shouldn't worry about that so much, dude. Write the story how you want to read it first, then worry about the audience.
Yes, they're the people reading your story, but if it weren't for you, they'd have nothing to read. They owe you, not the other way around.
-
Yes, they're the people reading your story, but if it weren't for you, they'd have nothing to read. They owe you, not the other way around.
I think its a little bit more complicated than that. While in the case of works given for free the reader isn't paying you for your work, by posting a story instead of keeping it to yourself, you work under the assumption of an audience. A good entertainer's job is to entertain the audience, and you aren't going to become a better writer by deciding the audience owes you. Likewise, you don't become a better writer by doing what the audience tells you to do - they don't know what they want. It's your job as a writer to create what they want, under the assumption that they don't know what it is yet because it hasn't been created - the "surprise" factor that makes works unique.
None of this pertains to any particular story, but rather my own understanding of how to be a good writer in general.
-
Update on my post a few posts above:
Thanks to Immaterial Crow and capt. h for answering. I posted the five first chapters of my first fic on a new thread, anyway. So you guys feel free to tear into it and tell me what I did wrong there. :P
-
Dinged?
And does this mean that someone else came along and said some flippant comment about how your story should go and you decided to change it?
Really shouldn't worry about that so much, dude. Write the story how you want to read it first, then worry about the audience.
Yes, they're the people reading your story, but if it weren't for you, they'd have nothing to read. They owe you, not the other way around.
It sounds a lot like Flandre orgasmed from sucking on Yuuka's blood in the initial write-up. My co-author was not amused, and neither were the mods (the board, Spacebattles, was having a flame war over crap like loliservice).
No, it's more like a time constraint thing and "lol canon" stuff. The RP's weird and has stuff like Elly/Koishi (no, I still don't know how this happened) and trips to other Gensokyos by Yukari (which I tried to retcon), and I'm wondering if I should have them all tied into one continuity or not.
jesus god this "Gensokyo goes to Hell to battle demons totally not from Dorf Fortress" story still sounds a fuckton like White Rose.
-
jesus god this "Gensokyo goes to Hell to battle demons totally not from Dorf Fortress" story still sounds a fuckton like White Rose.
Oh gods, do want. I hope I can read things like Flandre cancels drink: Throwing a tantrum. there.
-
You bet.
Also features Reimu fighting a Cyberdemon.
-
Library Newsflash:
So, over the last months it's become noticable that with the increased activity in PSL (which is a wonderful thing btw, keep it up ^^ ) our original plan of keeping the Fanworks-Listing updated as new works pop up was a bit too ambitious in long term. So now we have quite the backlog to work through, and as you can imagine, this will be a lot of work for just us perma-Librarians.
So while it's not yet official, and will probably not happen till August, I'll already make an announcement of how we are going to handle this: We're gonna shift to a new system where we will try to have a big "cleanup" every few months (or maybe twice a year), where we sort through all unsummarized works and file them into the Fanworks-Listing.
And for that, we will take any volunteers that want to help out, old regulars as well as new people.
A recruitment notice will be up in time before we actually start, this here is just to inform everyone of the overall plan for now. :D
-
My body is ready.
-
Ooh. Interesting. I promise not to be distracted by shiny objects. Often.
-
/in
Wait, this isn't Mafia. Thank god.
-
Can I help, somehow?... I'm not very good at stuff like this. I still haven't gotten around to uploading my infos on Undead Corporation into the wiki- but. I'd really like to help if I can. Like, as a trainee member..? I'll make coffee for all of you and provide advantageous moral support!
-
As said, there will be an official notice up soon, and then everyone interested can apply. Basically everyone on the team will get a list with works in PSL to read and summarize, and all those summaries will be put in the Fanworks Listing to complete it.
So really, it's more of a time-intensive job than a hard one, but don't underestimate it either ;)
Probably gonna have a maximum team size of ten people, to keep things organizable, but otherwise everyone with interest is welcome ^^
If you wanna get a bit more of an idea how exactly this goes down, just read through the early posts here in the Fanworks Listing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4840.0.html). We're gonna do pretty much that again, only instead of having to do all of PSL this time, we are gonna clear up the backlog.
-
Wow - it looks time and interest intensive... But for a good cause, and fun too. I'll re-confirm my commitment after I no longer have guests to entertain, but unless something drastic happens in my life, I would absolutely love to do this. :) And thank you for the link; not only does it grant a better idea of what is involved, it looks like some good things to read in the meantime, as well! :D
-
I used to read this blog, and his views on creativity are a little different than most. He mostly writes about video games, but what he says about creativity could be applied to any medium.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/email-regarding-your-stance-on-creativity/
-
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/email-regarding-your-stance-on-creativity/
Oh wow, this is just great:
Show me a ‘creative person’, and I will show you a loser filled with vanity. The path of ‘creativity’ doesn’t lead to fame, wealth, and happiness. What I see is that it leads to defeat after defeat in the marketplace and creates great unhappiness.
"Wealth rewards those who pander to their audience; poverty punishes those who try to be creative instead. There are winners and losers. Losers are broke. Root for the winners."
Someday we'll all pander enough to make money from our ideas. Like ZUN! Oh, wait:
P1: What games do you want to create in the future?
ZUN: I'm going to keep making games that stand out. If so all my fans disappear I'm still happy if I can keep doing the games I want.
Q. What's your motivation for making games?
A. Because I like it. Otherwise I couldn't make anything.
Interesting blog post, though. I wonder if the writer really understands that aiming to ignore creativity in the name of being 'successful' in the marketplace is anathema to the fundamentals of the doujin game community--
P1: What do you think is the most honourable part of making doujin games?
Z: To be able to create everything, from planning, graphics, programming, cover and music - everything! And that you then can sell it to the players. I find a great pride in experiencing game creation to 100 percent.
... which takes pride in creating and bringing together gamers and designers-- not aiming for profit.
-
I used to read this blog, and his views on creativity are a little different than most. He mostly writes about video games, but what he says about creativity could be applied to any medium.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/email-regarding-your-stance-on-creativity/
A lot of this rubs me the wrong way.
I can understand where this is coming from when it mentions the audience matters and all that. What really seems to gripe me is the fact that people, like me, who want to create their own little worlds and settings should stop trying because being creative is apparently a bad thing and that being creative always leads to disaster and misfortune.
I can guess that the reason this bakes my beans so much is because I like doing things to my own beat of the drum without having to 'pander' to anyone's needs. To me creativity is my freedom and what this guy is saying is that I should give up my freedom because it will lead to bad things.
On the other hand, it does make me wonder if this may be the reason as to why I'm so under the radar from a writer/artist standpoint. Do I have to give up my freedom to be popular? Do I have to ditch the one thing I love about myself in order to cater to the tastes of others? If that's the case, then I'm not sure if I really want to continue writing then. I may be dipping itno his 'vain modern artist' trope but, god dammit, I like being able to create things from my imagination.
-
While I agree on many things he says, that guy should have tried to define 'creativity' better before going off on a rant about it. His definition of creativity is that it's the word that artists use as an excuse for bad writing; when they are asked to justify thier decisions, they give a stock reply of "oh it was my creativity", kinda like the old "it's my opinion so nothing you argue has any relevance" line. While I do agree with this view, it doesn't have much to do with actual 'creativity'.
Saying Metroid Other M is a "creative" work and Brain Age, Nintendogs, Wii Sports, and Wii Fit shows that he feels this way, but the thing is he simply has the definition wrong. Those examples of 'non-creative' things are hardly uncreative. Brain Age has a freaking floating polygonal head that talks to you and encourages you to keep solving puzzles to reduce your 'brain age', Wii sports is a game where you get to play as caricatures of yourself while wielding a remote control that captures your actual physical motions and translates them onto the screen. If that's not creative I don't know what the hell is.
The thing is anything that you create and you made decisions for expresses your creativity. Ultimately any plotline when stripped down doesn't seem creative. Touhou is about little girls with random powers that shoot lasers, Madoka is about little girls who fight witches but turn into those witches when they get sad. There's a saying that states that there are only like 20 original plotlines or something. So what is creativity? Creativity manifests itself when you make decisions. If you and I were to write a touhou fanfic right now about Unzan, and you write about his past life as a gentle old man and I write about... this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imvSdt0Hxb0#t=35s)... each of our choices is a manifestation of our actual creativity. We took the same simple idea but we put our own spin on it. That's why creativity is not expressed in the general idea, but rather in the details.
Why is My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic so popular in the internet? The setting is old and cheesy, the characters are targeted to little girls, the plotlines are simple and generic. But the writing is good. And why is the writing good? Because of all the attention to detail. The little things like the pacing, the general atmosphere that's girly but not overly girly (so about as much girliness as the average K-ON like moe show), the way the characters are developed such as Fluttershy's assertive personality, Celestia's extreme trolling, Pinkie Pie's inner insanity, and the occasional witty lines like "the punch got spiked", make the show. If you do a generic synopsis of the show and compare it with older version of the show, there's hardly any difference. Little ponys in Ponyville have fun with thier friends, wow so 'creative'. But when you watch them it's completely different. MLP:FiM is much more creative than it's previous iterations.
One thing I agree with him on is creativity can't come from just your head; it comes from the world around you. The world influences you, which influences your decisions, which becomes your creativity. The thing is he says this is an example of 'uncreativity' while I say that this is exactly what creativity is. On the other hand I get the feeling he's only calling them 'uncreative' for the sake of argument, but he didn't do it properly. :V
So basically it's an issue of semantics.
As usual :V :V :V
-
I used to read this blog, and his views on creativity are a little different than most. He mostly writes about video games, but what he says about creativity could be applied to any medium.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/email-regarding-your-stance-on-creativity/
Ah yes, the arrogant ramblings of someone who's accomplished so much, I've never heard of him before. His claims show the very lack of research he decries and a terrible understanding of the subject matter, and the true issue he should have been confronting. He comes off as something of a hipster's hipster, mindlessly fighting for conformity because he spends so much time with people who mindlessly fight against it. The great irony being that he has a solid point to make in there, but his personal vendettas and insistence on giving the audience the hard body blows he thinks they want prevent him from actually articulating it.
And of course the point he should have made is blindingly obvious. Creativity alone is not enough. You have to do good work too. Other M didn't suck shit because it was creative, it sucked because it was sexist, poorly written and from what I heard not that great a Metroid game (I've only watched it not played it). In fact considering that writing sexist garbage with ham fisted metaphors is so common it would have been MORE creative to do it right.
The parts where he talks about audience and market share are arguable if your job is to make money selling shit to people, but utterly worthless and meaningless if you're just creating art for the fuck all of it like us fanfiction writers, so they can be safely discounted.
I personally advise anyone uncertain of their writing to ignore this screed and go look up something on writing fundamentals. Or just read a good book. That'll help you far more then this nonsense.
Edit : Suikama gave the polite version. And probably too much credit to the fool. I figure anyone who whines about creativity then gets creative with the meanings of words deserves a hearty dose of scorn.
-
*flop* Maaaaaaan ... I have just not had any energy for creative-writing lately.
I keep wondering if I'd be more likely to get any of my stories done if I was working with an artist to make comics.
-
*flop* Maaaaaaan ... I have just not had any energy for creative-writing lately.
I keep wondering if I'd be more likely to get any of my stories done if I was working with an artist to make comics.
I heard you mention somewhere that you liked starting with no end or punchline in mind. Have you tried starting with the punchline and then working backwards?
A long while ago, when I used to do Garry's Mod comics, I'd write the punchlines first and spend the rest of production building up to them. People who write by the seat of their pants think this limits creativity, but during principal photography and editing, I'd often add jokes on short notice while working up to the main punchlines. The cool thing about this is that even if the jokes I add on short notice don't work, I know the main punchlines should.
-
I heard you mention somewhere that you liked starting with no end or punchline in mind.
Nah, that's just with the individual Nekokayou comics. The prose stories, I kind of over-plan, not always in the right place for me to Get This Next Bit Written (there's half a dozen Hidden pages where I've sort of skipped ahead), but even then my problem is just getting the energy.
-
I used to read this blog, and his views on creativity are a little different than most. He mostly writes about video games, but what he says about creativity could be applied to any medium.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/email-regarding-your-stance-on-creativity/
*I had a gigantic post all typed up and then my browser ate it. Dammit....*
The main problem that I had with this article is not the author's definition of creativity?which I admit is...curious, but oh well?but his thoughts on how research, knowledge, and understanding of how things work should interact with the creation of works.
The winners in the Theater of the Mind all tend to have one thing in common: they do everything they can to understand the world around them. They read history, literature, math, science, current news, law, all sorts of things. This allows believable stories to be told. Moby Dick could not have been written had Melville not sailed on a whaling ship three times. Shakespeare could not have written much without a solid grasp of history, law, botany, and his studies on Ovid.
What makes ?Science Fiction? possible? It would be ?science?. It was the science fiction writers studying science which allows all our Sci-Fi TV shows to be able to exist (like Star Trek). It did not emerge from any ?creativity?.
What makes ?Fantasy? possible? Tolkien could only write Lord of the Rings due to his steep academic study into ancient mythologies and societies (as well as his Catholicism).
That Moby Dick is considered to be a classic is helped by the fact that Melville did his research on (relative to him) contemporary whaling techniques. But if one were to take a class on the book itself, I am quite positive that most, if not all, of the lectures would be about things other than the factual correctness and consistency of whaling as it is portrayed by Melville, and instead would focus on things such as the depth of the characters, the symbolism of the various things found in the book, and Melville's usage of pose. I highly doubt that a literary professor would hold up Moby Dick and go, ?Behold this masterpiece by Melville! See how his description of spermacette is consistent with reality, and how the art of whale hunting is historically accurate!? A history professor might do that, but not a literature professor.
What this means is: it is not enough to simply know about the world to create a quality work. It can help you create a more detailed, consistent, and deep setting and plot without having to come up with everything and check for consistency yourself, but knowledge by itself is irrelevant and powerless, despite the old adage; it is the application of knowledge that truly brings about something great.
This, by the way, is the definition of creativity that I use, lifted from Mark Rosewater (lead designer of the Magic: The Gathering trading card game): creativity is taking what you know, believe, and understand, and creating connections where none previously existed. Star Trek draws upon (and pitilessly violates) science, particularly astrophysics, and if Gene Rodenberry knew absolutely nothing about astronomy we really might not have had Star Trek. But a pile of facts about astrophysics, extraterrestrial biology, and socialism does not equate to Star Trek, anymore than a bowl of flour, eggs, milk, sugar, and butter equates to delicious cookie. It was Rodenberry's connecting the dots between what he knew, Tolkien taking and mixing his interpretations of old myths and Christianity, that led to Star Trek and the Lord of the Rings. It was not enough for them to simply know to create their masterpieces, but that they put it all together in unique and interesting ways that allowed them to make some of the most influential works in 20th century fiction. And doing this, this mixing and structuring and combining of ideas and facts, requires, I think, creativity and imagination.
The rest of the article, aside from the parts that seem to mostly be annoyed at people who avoid verisimilitude and implementing ideas without trying to think about whether or not it'll actually work, rests strongly on the blogger's opinion on art/creative works. This touches on a rather unclear issue; What is the Purpose of Art? And this, in turn, is connected to a long-standing question that mankind has yet to answer despite humanity's finest minds trying to tackle it for centuries: What is Art? It would be interesting if the blogger could provide a rational, concrete definition as to what indeed the purpose and nature of art is, but until that happens, I think this article safely rests in the ?Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man? category.
(Though I must admit that the author's rather...bold and steadfast belief in the uselessness of creative works if they do not sell to be rather disturbing. Judging the quality of a work based on popularity is a tricky thing at best, especially given the fact that the tastes of the general public changes with the wind. Is Classical music automatically inferior to modern music? After all, the only people who listen to Classical nowadays are hardcore fans, old people, and asian kids whose parents forced them into picking up the violin, the cello, or the flute. It certainly used to be popular, in a certain portion of the world, but not any more, outside of being used in movie soundtracks and commercials. And I sure as hell hope Mozart's not the best classical composer ever, cuz I hate Mozart--give me Rimsky-Korsakov or Bach anyday. :V Granted, I'm not especially fond of ?shouting into the emptiness?, as I call it, i.e. the act of spending a good portion of my time and energy making something that no one will ever know about or care about, but nonetheless, the idea of saying whether or not a creative work is any good based on how well it sells disturbs me. Does that mean even the best-written novel is bad if the guys marketing it fail at their jobs? Hmm.)
P.S:
Like a plague, it was spread throughout the entertainment mind and is a huge reason why so much entertainment content literally sucks.
I always thought it was because what most people like and what specialists in a given medium like are radically different. :colbert:
-
Eh, I want to get angry at the Sean Malstrom rant on Creativity, but I see from where guy comes. The biggest issue I have with the rant is that he creates a dichotomy between doing your homework and being "creative" that simply doesn't exist. Doing research and getting to know about your subject matter should be a given if you're serious about creating, but having an entire encyclopedia of knowledge at your disposal doesn't imply you'll start writing masterworks.
Also, I can't help but parody the guy: "This allows believable stories to be told. Call of Cthulhu could not have been written had Lovecraft not sailed on small ships to R'lyeh three times."
What he says about trusting the audience imagination is brilliant, however. To put the discussion on topic, ZUN manages to do this all the time, and I actually have no idea of how he actually does it. I mean, the guy is a solid music composer and game creator, but his dialogue writing is ... quirky and ZUN-art is an acquired taste, to put it mildly. But still, there's some charm at how he does things that can't help but to capture the imaginations of a huge chunk of the fandom. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I'm talking about things like Rumia's hair ribbon/charm or Flandre's wings, little touches of WTF that seem to be aimed directly at the audience's sense of wonder and speculation.
I don't even know if there's something intrinsic to ZUN's creations that made them into such huge successes or if it's just Japan having another bad case of fad/follow-the-leader syndrome. What I know is that the angry rant managed to make me thing about Touhou's uncanny success story.
-
My my~ the green introduction text hit me somewhere nice, it was excellently written :3
You have an idea for something but want the opinions of other people before starting your work?
You want to know how your fellow writer's work?
You need inspiration?
You want to discuss writing fiction in general?
You want to write something for the first time and don't know how to start?
Well some of that would be great. I'm new to this forum so still learning what is all here, so i stumbled across this.
I like to write stories, in fact i have my own (non touhou) story in progress. To add to this I have considered starting a Touhou fiction of my own.
Some opinions would be nice, but my biggest problem is I have no idea how to really start with any of my ideas. Getting to know some friendly and experienced writer's would be nice as well since I'm just a lone amateur.
Also this would be helpful but I suppose it wouldn't be neccessary to my writings, but if anyone would know of some good 'writing music', something to get you in the mood and make you feel like you're in the story yourself kind of stuff would be great.
It's nice to meet all of you and I look foward to my future experiences here.
-
Welcome to PSL, Sonae! Don't worry, there are lots of people here who could help you.
Also, woo newcomer to PSL woo!
-
Well, Sonae, what I do is basically just wait until I have an idea, jot down a few main key elements, then just imagine how it plays out and write that down. I can't really force the creative process, so I don't write very much fanfiction, but for me just dictating the story from my mind works. Oftentimes, the story writes itself in ways I never expected. I'm working on one right now (waiting until the NWC is judged to post the first part) and it went in an entirely different direction than I was expecting it to.
Edit: Crow Cakes, has anyone ever told you that your avatar is freaking adorable? Because it's freaking adorable.
-
It's nice to meet all of you and I look foward to my future experiences here.
Fool! Once you have entered the Madhouse, there is no escape! The howling dead shall torment you, till you forsake the world and join their countless legions!
(http://i.imgur.com/Zh9oL.jpg)
[ruro]please don't hotlink[/ruro]
(More seriously: Welcome to Maidens of the Kaleidoscope. :V)
Some opinions would be nice, but my biggest problem is I have no idea how to really start with any of my ideas. Getting to know some friendly and experienced writer's would be nice as well since I'm just a lone amateur.
For writing stories, I find that beginning with an interesting scene, premise, or idea and building around that scene, premise, or idea helps. It's not the only way to come up with stories, of course, but it's a start.
For example, let's say that you want to write a fic about, oh, Reimu and Marisa resolving an incident. (Not the most original premise, but it's there for the sake of example.) This idea, “Reimu and Marisa resolve incident X”, is what I call the 'core', around which you build your story. You can also have a story with multiples of such 'cores'; the “Reimu and Marisa resolve incidentX” story could also be about “How Reimu and Marisa each deal with psychological issue Y”. But beware that having too many cores might make for an overly-complex and cumbersome story.
Once you've picked an appropriate number of 'cores', the broader elements of the story, such as overall plot and which characters appear when, can be filled in. Let's say that “incident X” is “Yuugi goes insane and starts wrecking Gensokyo”. This begs a number of questions:
Why does Yuugi go insane?
How does Yuugi go insane?
Who, if applicable, made Yuugi go insane?
What do Reimu and Marisa do about it?
How do Reimu and Marisa find out about Yuugi's madness?
Does anyone else get involved?
And so forth. These questions, in return, may require further questions, and those questions may require their own questions, etc. The answers to all of those questions will be the details that make your story what it will become.
Again, this is just one way of going about it. Someone else might be able to tell you a different and/or better method of coming up with a good story.
One rule of thumb I like to keep in mind for coming up with story ideas:
There is no such thing as a bad idea, only bad executions
That is; it's less important to have a “cool” and “interesting” premise than it is to be able to take that premise and make it into something interesting. One of my favorite Touhou comics, Mistress' Home Party Epic Battle, is basically about Remilia trying to hold a party at the Scarlet Devil's Mansion: not the most exciting of premises, but the way the author shows how everything goes hilariously to hell for Remilia, and how Remilia reacts to it all, makes it into one of the funniest Touhou doujins I've ever read.
Also this would be helpful but I suppose it wouldn't be neccessary to my writings, but if anyone would know of some good 'writing music', something to get you in the mood and make you feel like you're in the story yourself kind of stuff would be great.
I personally dislike listening to music while I'm writing (or, indeed, doing anything that requires concentration) as I end up being very distracted, but that's probably because of the way I listen to music. In any case, you probably want something that isn't particularly attention-grabbing. Music either without lyrics (Classical stuff) or with lyrics that you can't understand (Gregorian chant) might work, though in the former case the melody and harmony must also not be particularly interesting as well. My personal favorite music for working, if I bother to turn on music for work, in Gregorian chant. To each their own, though.
-
Thank you all for the welcomes! : D
Well, Sonae, what I do is basically just wait until I have an idea, jot down a few main key elements, then just imagine how it plays out and write that down. I can't really force the creative process, so I don't write very much fanfiction, but for me just dictating the story from my mind works. Oftentimes, the story writes itself in ways I never expected. I'm working on one right now (waiting until the NWC is judged to post the first part) and it went in an entirely different direction than I was expecting it to.
Hm I'm usually able to advance-ly imagine the story in my head like if it were an anime. So I just write and describe what i see in my mind really...
There is no such thing as a bad idea, only bad executions
I hope I don't mess up the execution QQ
As for ideas... -pulls out notepad and flips through- I have a simplistic list of characters that would be the main focus of the story. This list includes;
- Sakuya
- Yuyuko
- Yukari
- Letty
- Rumia
- Satori
- Hina
- Murasa
- Maribel
And that's just to name a few. I wouldn't know how unique my ideas would be, but I'd probably still want to write it even if the idea was used.
Oh also there is no people who steal ideas here right? Cause I'm sorta worried about giving out too much info about my ideas thinking someone might just drop by and steal it x:
-
As for ideas... -pulls out notepad and flips through- I have a simplistic list of characters that would be the main focus of the story. This list includes;
- Sakuya
- Yuyuko
- Yukari
- Letty
- Rumia
- Satori
- Hina
- Murasa
- Maribel
And that's just to name a few. I wouldn't know how unique my ideas would be, but I'd probably still want to write it even if the idea was used.
By ?main focus?, do you mean ?main characters?? If so, then my immediate concern is that you may have too many characters to focus on, unless you lump them into larger groups and focus on each group as a whole instead.
Or did you mean something else?
-
Also this would be helpful but I suppose it wouldn't be neccessary to my writings, but if anyone would know of some good 'writing music', something to get you in the mood and make you feel like you're in the story yourself kind of stuff would be great.
Look up Two Steps from Hell. You won't regret it. They've got music for damn near every occasion.
Swing by our Library IRC chat sometime if you want. We don't discuss literature exclusively - meaning you're very unlikely to actually come in on a conversation about storywriting - but if you ask for advice, you WILL get it. Especially if any of the main channel OPs are on - they're all the Big Cheeses here in PSL.
If you don't have an IRC client on your comp already, we have a webchat client that you could potentially use - assuming it's not broken, which I think right now it is.
Here's your handy dandy clue link (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=scarlet-library).
As for experienced writers, well, the PSL Acolyte - Sakana - or any of the Librarians can help you out, but of course there are other people who are exemplary writers as well - like Iced Fairy, the guy currently running the New Writer's Contest. If you want to pick other peoples' brains, the IRC is the best place to find them.
The NWC has closed and is undergoing judging currently, so you're a bit late to jump onto that one
Oh also there is no people who steal ideas here right? Cause I'm sorta worried about giving out too much info about my ideas thinking someone might just drop by and steal it x:
While we can't make any guarantees about that, if you report that you think someone is harvesting ideas from you and using them elsewhere, report it to the PSL Acolyte. That's what he's there for. If anything is happening, he'll get the ball rolling towards getting it taken care of.
Otherwise, the community here is normally really awesome about that sort of thing. I went ahead and posted the first arc from a novel I'm working on just to see if anyone was interested in it, and I haven't exactly found any clones of the story on the net.
Then again my story can be very loosely compared to Star Wars without a lot of effort
-
By ?main focus?, do you mean ?main characters?? If so, then my immediate concern is that you may have too many characters to focus on, unless you lump them into larger groups and focus on each group as a whole instead.
Or did you mean something else?
Each all seperate story ideas. Usually there would be maybe 5 charas, maybe 10 at most.
I can't go on any online chats x:, my computer doesn't like them.
-
The webchat (which isn't broken, my computer was just giving me a hard time) is a web-based browser. It isn't without glitches, though - sometimes it'll just up and stop updating, causing you to have to re-connect/refresh the page. It shouldn't be too much of an issue for any computer, really - especially since it's based in IRC. There is absolutely nothing fancy about IRC - it's been quoted as being 'multiplayer Notepad'.
-
Oh yeah, I should probably try going on the PSL IRC some time. Especially since I'm writing one with a super underused character right now, and I'm not sure how well it'll work out. I'll deal with that when it isn't 1:00 A.M. though.
-
Right, so as most of you probably know I write a lot of long stories with questionable update times. This seems to be biting me in the ass, because I think people just can't be bothered getting back into a long story that hasn't been updated for three months. Anyone here familiar with the issue, and are there any good ways around it? I've been told to try writing summaries before each update to get people just about up to speed, but that feels a little clunky...
-
Anyone know what to do with a writer's sphere? You know, the exact opposite of writer's block. I can't remember where I picked up the term but it is where you have so many ideas floating around in your head, you don't know what to do with them. I let my mind wander way too much when coming up with stuff for the challenges or anything really. I have three stories I've been going over in my head that have nothing to do with anything.
And if I'm not careful I'll get an idea that would made The Stand blush, length wise. Of course I can't write that in a week or three. So I make edits and cut some things out. But I still won't characters to show up and that ends up making a BLA moment. That's solved by just not having said character show up, but I'm so weak xD.
But my worst problem is when I actually set down to write. I get like thirty or so minutes in and my ADD kicks in or an awesome song comes on my playlist and I got to move around. Or even worst I get impatient and want to get to a better part in my story. And I end up doing something stupid like throwing a fight scene in the middle of leisurely stroll or skip the stroll all together.
So PSL, cure my ADD and make my fingers barf up my ideas better, please.
-
I have to wonder if a site like this has many people who remember Digimon World 3 (2003 for PAL players). You know, that one RPG whose level grinding system made it way longer than necessary, as well as really flat characters and plot. While the game itself certainly wouldn't attract people other than hardcore Digimon fans, I've felt for a long time that it (at least, it's story) actually had potential to be really good. I mentioned this once before in another thread, but I recently played through DW3 again to help set up my own rewrite of the game. I know, working with a basic plotline that's already laid out for me may not be the most "creative" thing out there (never mind that creativity discussion farther up the page), but the fun part for me is more working with all the little pieces I'm adding to it, hoping to go way beyond what the original game presented. I already have a few scenes written, though I'll probably hold off on posting anything until a fair portion of the story is completed.
Again, I bet a good deal of people here aren't terribly familiar with DW3, but for those who are, do any of you also think it could have been good?
-
I know, working with a basic plotline that's already laid out for me may not be the most "creative" thing out there
What do you think everyone who's writing Touhou fiction is doing? So you're planning to re-tell a specific story that's been told already; so? By your word, it was a very bland story. Give it some spice. That's what writers do; they tell stories, and try to make them interesting enough to keep peoples' attention.
-
Right, so as most of you probably know I write a lot of long stories with questionable update times. This seems to be biting me in the ass, because I think people just can't be bothered getting back into a long story that hasn't been updated for three months. Anyone here familiar with the issue, and are there any good ways around it? I've been told to try writing summaries before each update to get people just about up to speed, but that feels a little clunky...
I'm familiar with the issue, of course. I just never thought this was a problem, or cared much. Maybe it's a disdainful approach, though. Whenever I lose track of a story by the time it updates, I just go back to re-read it. Generally I'm quite happy to do so, since merely abandoning a story is far too common, so I put in the effort for my favourite writers.
Anyone know what to do with a writer's sphere? You know, the exact opposite of writer's block. I can't remember where I picked up the term but it is where you have so many ideas floating around in your head, you don't know what to do with them. I let my mind wander way too much when coming up with stuff for the challenges or anything really. I have three stories I've been going over in my head that have nothing to do with anything.
When that happens, I open up a .doc file for them and write them down. For me, I have Chireiden.doc (which is White Rose) and Chireiden_extras.doc, which is not actually extras for White Rose all the time-- I just throw other miscellaneous story ideas in there that float around in my head. A blank screen is intimidating to me, so even if the stories have nothing to do with each other, simply having them there gives me the confidence to write them down. And who knows? They might actually find a home in my main story someday.
But my worst problem is when I actually set down to write. I get like thirty or so minutes in and my ADD kicks in or an awesome song comes on my playlist and I got to move around. Or even worst I get impatient and want to get to a better part in my story. And I end up doing something stupid like throwing a fight scene in the middle of leisurely stroll or skip the stroll all together.
So PSL, cure my ADD and make my fingers barf up my ideas better, please.
There's really nothing to be done here but discipline. There are no tricks or rewards programs you can give yourself that won't wear off after a while. Self-control is the only advice I have to offer here-- just sit down, grit your teeth, and do it. And if you get distracted, then you get distracted. And your story never gets written. There's no in-between.
-
So once again I figured I'd mention something that seems to affect a lot of fics in general, and this time it's something that just doesn't affect newer writers. It's something that's a unique issue with fanfiction, characterizing your villains.
People read fanfiction because they want to see stories about the characters they enjoy, and sometimes different views on characters they aren't as interested in. A lot of the people who sit down and read stories love Touhou, and they love the characters too. Which is why they tend to get annoyed when they feel those characters are denigrated or misrepresented.
Characterization of course is always important. Still, canon in Touhou is fairly loose, and even if you decide to go way off base well written and interesting characterization will make it likely people will stay around. (Note I say interesting, not amusing.) Most readers are willing to suspend their personal opinions and stick around to see where a story is going. Especially if they like where the story is going.
However when you make an existing Touhou a villain, especially a serious villain, your audience is no longer going to give you the benefit of the doubt. The readers are going to want to know why the character they loved has started kicking puppies. And if the answer isn't REALLY good, not "This is how I see the character" but "this is a perfectly understandable mistake / reaction to circumstances," it's going to come off as poorly researched character assassination. This isn't to say you should never write a fic where a Touhou character is the villain or antagonist. But it's a whole lot harder, and you're probably going to hurt people's enjoyment of your work unless you pull it off perfectly.
How to do that? Well in addition to getting a proofreader who will help with these things, I have a passable rule of thumb. When you look back at the villainous Touhou's actions, would you be seriously tempted to do the same things they have? If you can't answer yes, then you're probably wandering into dangerous territory.
-
Usually, something like "lol possession by grimderp forces" or something that makes them not themselves can offset this, but it can come off as an excuse when poorly written.
The same principle goes for a character who isn't canonically an ass being an ass (...outside of Reimu...).
-
On the subject of antagonists...
If I want my readers to sympathize with the antagonist, whose point of view should I focus more on, the pro- or the ant-? I've seen many emphasize with latter's point of view, but can I also use the protagonists' point of view to do the same thing? And is a deep reason always better than a shallow one?
-
"lol possession by grimderp forces"
:ohdear: You've found my secret :ohdear:
No seriously that's usually my fall-back in my stories. My debut entry to MotK, Forsake the Future? Marisa pries into Alice's Grimoire and gets fucked up by it. My current arc in the Librarian Stories? Sentient Magic Tome possesses highly Psychic character. Fresh Faces in the Kaleidoscope? 'Possessed' - may not be the right word, but if you stretch it thin enough, it might get the job done - by a misplaced sense of righteous indignation. Bonus points for that one being written from the point of view of the antagonist.
/me stops stroking own ego and shamelessly plugging stories
But yes, to be honest, an interesting villain/antagonist is really one of the few things that keeps me in a story; the other is good characterization and a fine attention to details. It's shortcomings in both departments that turn me away from a lot of the stories that I don't follow anymore.
-
On the subject of antagonists...
If I want my readers to sympathize with the antagonist, whose point of view should I focus more on, the pro- or the ant-? I've seen many emphasize with latter's point of view, but can I also use the protagonists' point of view to do the same thing? And is a deep reason always better than a shallow one?
If your protagonist similarly sympathizes with the antagonist it should be possible to use their view. As for reasoning, a reasonable reason is the best. Whether that reason is an understandable mistake or serious mental trauma is an exercise in writing.
-
However when you make an existing Touhou a villain, especially a serious villain, your audience is no longer going to give you the benefit of the doubt. The readers are going to want to know why the character they loved has started kicking puppies. And if the answer isn't REALLY good, not "This is how I see the character" but "this is a perfectly understandable mistake / reaction to circumstances," it's going to come off as poorly researched character assassination. This isn't to say you should never write a fic where a Touhou character is the villain or antagonist. But it's a whole lot harder, and you're probably going to hurt people's enjoyment of your work unless you pull it off perfectly.
How to do that? Well in addition to getting a proofreader who will help with these things, I have a passable rule of thumb. When you look back at the villainous Touhou's actions, would you be seriously tempted to do the same things they have? If you can't answer yes, then you're probably wandering into dangerous territory.
Am I missing something here, or are you actually suggesting as a rule of thumb to reduce youkai, immortals and gods of a eastern setting to the same ethical and moral framework of a western human from the XXI century?
-
Am I missing something here, or are you actually suggesting as a rule of thumb to reduce youkai, immortals and gods of a eastern setting to the same ethical and moral framework of a western human from the XXI century?
The rules of society have changed, but emotions and desires have not. Mokou's drive to kill Kaguya are hardly within the norms for western society, but getting revenge for your parents is understandable, and if properly written sympathetic. However, if you can't convince yourself that you too could follow that path, you aren't going to convince your readers.
-
:ohdear: You've found my secret :ohdear:
No seriously that's usually my fall-back in my stories. My debut entry to MotK, Forsake the Future? Marisa pries into Alice's Grimoire and gets fucked up by it. My current arc in the Librarian Stories? Sentient Magic Tome possesses highly Psychic character. Fresh Faces in the Kaleidoscope? 'Possessed' - may not be the right word, but if you stretch it thin enough, it might get the job done - by a misplaced sense of righteous indignation. Bonus points for that one being written from the point of view of the antagonist.
Yeah. Hell, in my story (that I'm rewriting, derp) where a bunch of shoot 'em up characters fought against Touhoes, the Touhou cast had been hijacked by some sort of evil force that basically turned them into flanderized grimdark versions of themselves (psychotic Koishi, Oni-Miko, amongst other things).
Also, if you ask me, most youkai, immortals, and gods of an eastern setting have the same ethical and moral framework of an eastern human from the XXI century. Granted, ZUN writing. >.> (Besides Okuu's wackoness and Koishi spouting out bullshit. I'm damn sure Koishi was being weird. Hell, if you want to go with "but youkai make death threats!", remember that Reimu and Marisa make similar threats during the games.) I mean, Mokou and Kaguya aren't weird about their morality, and Kanako and Suwako have been reasonable so far. (By reasonable, I mean plotting.)
Also, I'm disregarding everything from Inaba/Inaba as canon. :V
-
The rules of society have changed, but emotions and desires have not. Mokou's drive to kill Kaguya are hardly within the norms for western society, but getting revenge for your parents is understandable, and if properly written sympathetic. However, if you can't convince yourself that you too could follow that path, you aren't going to convince your readers.
This is frustrating to explain. :P
Let's see: Youkai have a drive to eat people. Gods have a drive to collect faith. Faeries have a drive to play pranks. They are not human beings, they only look the part. Yet, in Gensokyo, they all sit down and have a tea with Reimu after an incident is over. The cognitive dissonance this creates is, I feel, part of the Touhou series' charm. I mean, Remilia is both the vampire that sent a bloody mist over the entire country with a flick of her wrists AND the little girl who let Reimu grab and give her a nogging (or whatever ZUN tried to show there. I'm talking about the EoSD ReimuA ending)
. Yukari is both a terrifying elder being and the quirky girl that eats Reimu's food while the miko is away under her orders and then teases her about it. Rumia is a rather dense and innocent girl that flies with her arms spread because she misheard something about Christ, while thinking on the next human she'll eat and so on.
With this being said, I despise the "humans with funny ears/hats" mindset that's so prevalent on fantasy (which I believe is a big part of why fantasy isn't taken seriously as a genre). What's the point of writing stories about monsters if you're limiting yourself to human emotions and desires? These beings age differently, eat differently, sleep differently than us. Some of them don't do these things at all. Is it really a huge leap to conclude that they think differently?
(busy day here, so I'm concluding this post here. I want to write a lot more on the subject, however. This issue is a huge pet peeve of mine)
-
Let's see: Youkai have a drive to eat people. Gods have a drive to collect faith. Faeries have a drive to play pranks. They are not human beings, they only look the part. Yet, in Gensokyo, they all sit down and have a tea with Reimu after an incident is over. The cognitive dissonance this creates is, I feel, part of the Touhou series' charm. I mean, Remilia is both the vampire that sent a bloody mist over the entire country with a flick of her wrists AND the little girl who let Reimu grab and give her a nogging (or whatever ZUN tried to show there. I'm talking about the EoSD ReimuA ending)
. Yukari is both a terrifying elder being and the quirky girl that eats Reimu's food while the miko is away under her orders and then teases her about it. Rumia is a rather dense and innocent girl that flies with her arms spread because she , while thinking on the next human she'll eat and so on.
Here's the thing. The details are different but the emotions that drive the story are the same. Gods need faith or they die. You as a human will never understand what it means to need faith, but you can understand the need to survive. And that's the difference. If you write Kanako as a villain who is doing what she must to survive as a goddess then her motivation is understandable. If you simple handwave it with "because she's a god, and gods don't care about things we care about" you're just doing it wrong.
With this being said, I despise the "humans with funny ears/hats" mindset that's so prevalent on fantasy (which I believe is a big part of why fantasy isn't taken seriously as a genre). What's the point of writing stories about monsters if you're limiting yourself to human emotions and desires? These beings age differently, eat differently, sleep differently than us. Some of them don't do these things at all. Is it really a huge leap to conclude that they think differently.
If a writer can't explain the differences between humans and other races but instead leave it to the assumptions of the reader, they shouldn't be surprised when the readers assumption ends up being the writer doesn't care. And honestly they'd be right. If you feel that a youkai's habits will make them do something completely inhuman, you've obviously thought of a reason WHY that is true, and you'd best give that information to the audience.
And if that reasoning casts them in a bad light, expect it to receive a thorough investigation.
As an aside, I'm not sure a series that takes stuff from an animistic religion and makes them MORE human is the best place to fight against things being human like in fantasy.
-
Also, I got the feeling that there were varying levels of how human-like a youkai is, raging from feral things to extremely human. It'd be like comparing chimps, gorillas, and cro-magnons/neanderthals/INSERT HUMANOID HERE to humans. Except that some chimps are rabid. And I forgot where I was going with this.
And do all of them want to eat humans?
In my opinion, fantasy isn't marginalized because it's "too human", it's marginalized because snobs will be snobs and bitch about anything fantastical or futuristic.
-
"The Scarlet Devil Mansion is having another party/open house. (Y'know, the kind that happened in SSiB, or that one Maribel and Renko story in one of the CDs.) You get a chance to meet the Scarlet Devil herself, in person, and you chat for a bit. She's rather polite and a bit charming, for the most part, and you do your best to be polite in return and you think you've given her a generally good impression of yourself. But from the human perspective, she isn't normal. She looks like a ten-year-old and acts like a haughty fortysomething noblewoman. And there's just something about her -- some gut instinct, some deep-lizard-brain reaction -- that tells you that one of the things she sees when she looks at you is 'lunch.' After all, that's what's flowing through your veins; she is a vampire. And if she were to decide that you should be her next meal, the only thing that would really stop her from drinking your blood until you died was the fact that she has the body of a ten-year-old, and is physically unable to drink enough to kill you."
Figured I'd throw this sort of thing together to fit into this discussion. Y'know, as an alternative to "she is evil, BLAHAHAHAHAHA"
-
Here's the thing. The details are different but the emotions that drive the story are the same. Gods need faith or they die. You as a human will never understand what it means to need faith, but you can understand the need to survive. And that's the difference. If you write Kanako as a villain who is doing what she must to survive as a goddess then her motivation is understandable. If you simple handwave it with "because she's a god, and gods don't care about things we care about" you're just doing it wrong.
Totally agreed here. Any kind of handwave is bad. That's why you research the material beforehand, etc. For instance, I'd like to write about the Scarlets past, so I started to read about Europe at the XVI century to see in what kind of world they did start their lives. Reading about when Yukari or Kanako were young is much more difficult. The japanese pre-history is a lot of patriotic myths and few facts. But what I'm finding is interesting, at least :P
If a writer can't explain the differences between humans and other races but instead leave it to the assumptions of the reader, they shouldn't be surprised when the readers assumption ends up being the writer doesn't care. And honestly they'd be right. If you feel that a youkai's habits will make them do something completely inhuman, you've obviously thought of a reason WHY that is true, and you'd best give that information to the audience.
And if that reasoning casts them in a bad light, expect it to receive a thorough investigation.
Oh well, alright. It took me about 3 posts out of me running around the criticism the judges addressed against my Yukari's characterization. I feel defeated for having to show what pulls the characters' strings. A great part of the fun I have reading a book is trying to figure what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe for writing fanfic the rules are actually different. So, let me talk about moustache twirling Yukari, at once:
Yukari loves Gensokyo. It's the realm she dearly created and maintained for centuries, both as a personal retreat, and also as a general haven for her endangered species. While she didn't start the creation process alone (the original Hakurei helped) she has poured a great deal of power and influence into the land, more than any other being. So, Yukari's mindset for me starts at the very understandable love for her land.
With this love in mind, let's see how nicely Yukari actually behaves when there's something threatens Gensokyo, by reading her story mode in Scarlet Weather Rapsody. Fans of whimsical, lulzy Yukari will be utterly disappointed as she dishes out a no-nonsense beating that starts with Reimu ("why isn't the shrine restored yet?") up to Tenshi. For more of the same, check Iku fight against her on the same game. That's the Yukari I'm writing about. The one nasty enough to resort to the playground tactic of saying what your opponent is saying, only in reverse, and you can't even get angry. Because she's right.
Then there's the Scarlet sisters. I don't believe I need to explain at length why Yukari has for them the same love she has for Tenshi and Utsuho. And yet, she's forced (by who? the canon isn't clear, and this is one of the parts the fandom must supply. My answer for that is "Yuugi") to endure the existence of all these people in HER land. How to deal with it? The only Yukari-like answer I can find is by not being nice to these people, whenever is convenient and fun to do. This can be done by using Remilia's kiddy's enthusiasm to send the vampire on a rocket to the moon, or by witholding Patchouli's presence in a council, where the magician could say something sensible that troubled her plans. (Patchouli, unlike Remilia, is a great observer and it's actually very intelligent). Is it petty? It's very petty. Is it evil? Yes, because the right thing is to forgive, but in Yukari's head, it's payback for the threat they are to Gensokyo.
I hope that this concludes the investigation as pertaining to that story.
As an aside, I'm not sure a series that takes stuff from an animistic religion and makes them MORE human is the best place to fight against things being human like in fantasy.
I for one plead guilty to thinking too hard about doujinshi shooting games about lolis in silly hats. Thing is, ZUN makes quite an effort on characterization, having released volumes of nothing but backstory. His writing, as seen directly in CiLR, is pretty keen on showing, for instance, that Mokou lives a completely alien life (because she doesn't need to eat, sleep, etc) but at the same time clings to Kaguya out of the very human need for company and acceptance. Likewise, every Remilia profile is basically a variation of: "This a terrible being of untold strength and power. Also, spoiled little girl." This is the cognitive dissonance I tried to show in the previous post and that I want to see on more stories. Remilia can flatten a building with her brain OR her brawn if she feels motivated, but she's also a kid who feels genuinely sad and lost if things are not going as she expected. Yukari is a combination of alien elder being/angry bitchy boss/imposing older sister. Ignoring any of these facets is, for me, demeaning to the original.
I'm all for gag-manga and general silliness, and I actually believe these all belong together in Touhou, and if possible in the same story.
And don't get me started on Eirin. If you guys read my fic and thought Yukari was bad, you'll gonna utterly hate what I do with miss Yagokoro.
Finally, the villains' bit: I don't believe in villains, period. I think that the most interesting stories are about people antagonizing each other without any obvious moral winners. I think Gensokyo is a pretty good setting for this kind of story, because it puts on the same pot a lot of quirky, bitchy, alien people all rubbing shoulders with each other. The "villain" in a Gensokyo story for me would be the entire human civilization (at least the ones who sent a war expedition to the moon) and even THEM would have a perfectly valid reason to antagonize the entire land of Gensokyo (there be monsters, kill them). It's just that I'd not want to change the POV to show their (ours) side.
-
I think a "well that's just, like, your opinion, man" is warranted here, since there's 95843905843583045890 different interpretations to Yukari (hell, every damn character ever) and everyone could argue on which is more canonical. I doubt you'd appreciate me turning Yukari into an extremely silly trollish woman who never stops joking even when the situation is serious, or Eirin actually caring for (and protecting) the residents of Gensokyo, and we could argue on and on about which one is more canonical. And that's not diving into whether we take gag manga as absolute gospel.
...Also, Mokou being too lazy to eat or do anything isn't alien. Ask any nerd. :V
...Where's the Black Tewi image.
-
I think a "well that's just, like, your opinion, man" is warranted here, since there's 95843905843583045890 different interpretations to Yukari (hell, every damn character ever) and everyone could argue on which is more canonical. I doubt you'd appreciate me turning Yukari into an extremely silly trollish woman who never stops joking even when the situation is serious, or Eirin actually caring for (and protecting) the residents of Gensokyo, and we could argue on and on about which one is more canonical. And that's not diving into whether we take gag manga as absolute gospel.
...Also, Mokou being too lazy to eat or do anything isn't alien. Ask any nerd. :V
...Where's the Black Tewi image.
Can't really argue with ... uh, what again? I guess we can at least agree that Reisen, with her firearms affinity, is the most cannonical touhou.
-
This. (http://i53.tinypic.com/2z3pevq.png)
-
Oh well, alright. It took me about 3 posts out of me running around the criticism the judges addressed against my Yukari's characterization. I feel defeated for having to show what pulls the characters' strings. A great part of the fun I have reading a book is trying to figure what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe for writing fanfic the rules are actually different.:
That was part of what I was trying to convey. When you're writing fanfiction there is someone out there who loves the character more then you do, and who knows that character better then you do. Your writing must stand up to their scrutiny.
So, let me talk about moustache twirling Yukari, at once
Yukari loves Gensokyo. It's the realm she dearly created and maintained for centuries, both as a personal retreat, and also as a general haven for her endangered species. While she didn't start the creation process alone (the original Hakurei helped) she has poured a great deal of power and influence into the land, more than any other being. So, Yukari's mindset for me starts at the very understandable love for her land.
With this love in mind, let's see how nicely Yukari actually behaves when there's something threatens Gensokyo, by reading her story mode in Scarlet Weather Rapsody. Fans of whimsical, lulzy Yukari will be utterly disappointed as she dishes out a no-nonsense beating that starts with Reimu ("why isn't the shrine restored yet?") up to Tenshi. For more of the same, check Iku fight against her on the same game. That's the Yukari I'm writing about. The one nasty enough to resort to the playground tactic of saying what your opponent is saying, only in reverse, and you can't even get angry. Because she's right.
Then there's the Scarlet sisters. I don't believe I need to explain at length why Yukari has for them the same love she has for Tenshi and Utsuho. And yet, she's forced (by who? the canon isn't clear, and this is one of the parts the fandom must supply. My answer for that is "Yuugi") to endure the existence of all these people in HER land. How to deal with it? The only Yukari-like answer I can find is by not being nice to these people, whenever is convenient and fun to do. This can be done by using Remilia's kiddy's enthusiasm to send the vampire on a rocket to the moon, or by witholding Patchouli's presence in a council, where the magician could say something sensible that troubled her plans. (Patchouli, unlike Remilia, is a great observer and it's actually very intelligent). Is it petty? It's very petty. Is it evil? Yes, because the right thing is to forgive, but in Yukari's head, it's payback for the threat they are to Gensokyo.
I hope that this concludes the investigation as pertaining to that story.
Hm... I think in trying to combine five different critiques into one something was lost. Allow me to clarify.
Your setup for why Yukari didn't like Remilia was well done. And while some of the other judges and I disagree with most of the steps in your personal canon, you presented your variant history correctly, allowing me to follow your reasoning.
The reason your Yukari got panned was because she didn't just act like a huge bitch to Remilia. It was because she was acting like a huge bitch in general, to her own detriment. Half of her little games actually work against her end goal, given Remilia would normally support the matter. Her needlessly brutal treatment of Keine drew a lot of ire as well, and at no point do we see, the Yukari from the manga or games. Those were the points that needed explaining.
And, yes, there's an amount of opinion here. But if you don't carefully cultivate the ground to make your opinion look reasonable and flow smoothly, you turn your fic into an clash of ideas. And that doesn't help tell a story.
I for one plead guilty to thinking too hard about doujinshi shooting games about lolis in silly hats. Thing is, ZUN makes quite an effort on characterization, having released volumes of nothing but backstory. His writing, as seen directly in CiLR, is pretty keen on showing, for instance, that Mokou lives a completely alien life (because she doesn't need to eat, sleep, etc) but at the same time clings to Kaguya out of the very human need for company and acceptance. Likewise, every Remilia profile is basically a variation of: "This a terrible being of untold strength and power. Also, spoiled little girl." This is the cognitive dissonance I tried to show in the previous post and that I want to see on more stories. Remilia can flatten a building with her brain OR her brawn if she feels motivated, but she's also a kid who feels genuinely sad and lost if things are not going as she expected. Yukari is a combination of alien elder being/angry bitchy boss/imposing older sister. Ignoring any of these facets is, for me, demeaning to the original
In this case I think we're having a disconnect on what human is, and what a human can understand. That's a philosophical point worthy of a focused discussion, but kind of an aside.
-
It's also Touhou and not a horrifying fairy tale of old. ZUN's youkai aren't meant to be faithful to whatever evil eldritch things historical youkai were, like modern fairy tales.
-
Just to check:
Would written out touhou rap battles come under this section or Sara's section?
-
It's fiction, so it would be in here I think? The other choice would not be Sara's, but the Addict Recovery Center.
-
It's also Touhou and not a horrifying fairy tale of old. ZUN's youkai aren't meant to be faithful to whatever evil eldritch things historical youkai were, like modern fairy tales.
<==== (points to Avatar pic)
With everything said, I think funny and adventure trump drama or horror any day of the week.
Also, thanks for the black Tewi link. If I knew this link beforehand, I'd not have to write so much here.
"The Scarlet Devil Mansion is having another party/open house. (Y'know, the kind that happened in SSiB, or that one Maribel and Renko story in one of the CDs.) You get a chance to meet the Scarlet Devil herself, in person, and you chat for a bit. She's rather polite and a bit charming, for the most part, and you do your best to be polite in return and you think you've given her a generally good impression of yourself. But from the human perspective, she isn't normal. She looks like a ten-year-old and acts like a haughty fortysomething noblewoman. And there's just something about her -- some gut instinct, some deep-lizard-brain reaction -- that tells you that one of the things she sees when she looks at you is 'lunch.' After all, that's what's flowing through your veins; she is a vampire. And if she were to decide that you should be her next meal, the only thing that would really stop her from drinking your blood until you died was the fact that she has the body of a ten-year-old, and is physically unable to drink enough to kill you."
Figured I'd throw this sort of thing together to fit into this discussion. Y'know, as an alternative to "she is evil, BLAHAHAHAHAHA"
Also, the little noblewoman has distressingly real, large, black bat wings attached to some point of her back (her dress elegantly hides the point of attachment of her wings under a fold of satin).
-
Your avatar still gives me nightmares.
-
I dunno, I think Byaku!Snuffy is kinda cute~
-
Your avatar still gives me nightmares.
Yours is from a rather bleak piece of fic. If I'm remembering it right it's the one where Remilia vampirizes Reimu, destroying the maiden's mind in the process.
I thought about changing my avatar, but I'm still looking for one who tops the current one. I'll probably look forever O_o;
-
Yeah, it is. And then
Remilia realizes this too late and breaks down into tears.
Eh, I always found Asatsuki Dou's work to be hilariously overwrought and unintentionally funny rather than sadly dramatic. I mean, come on, in another doujin, REIMU IS DYING OF MAGIC AIDS FROM YUKARI AND RAN KILLS HER, OLD STYLE!!11ONE
He's got some weird thing for yuri tragedy cliches. Also, I needed a "why do you do this" face for an avatar.
His parodies and comedy are better.
-
I needed a "why do you do this" face for an avatar.
Which brings up the question: why do you do this? ;)
-
Same reason why anyone does anything: for the lulz.
I think.
-
(http://girlandtwilight.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/anime-why-would-you-do-that.jpeg)
-
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_G8I3DxqMsW8/S3l6fSWgYRI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/pQGcbnwBMXA/s400/i-sorry.jpg)
-
Uh, so, last reply was like a month ago, but since this isn't locked and is a sticky, I guess I can post here no probs(Unless the generic help for fanfiction thread changed since last time I asked for help :derp:)
Anyway, I just need a few tips for a story I'm starting to write, the story is a one-shot, very, very, VERY LONG fighting scene between two gensokyans, both of them have very evenly matched powers, I also have two observers during the story.
Both fighters have a trump card, Fighting Girl 1# does not know about Fighting Girl 2#'s trump card, however, while Fighting Girl 2# knows of Fighting Girl 1#'s trump card.
Also, this ISN'T a danmaku fight, it's more like an all-out duel to the death, or something, both of them are allowed to use magic, physical attacks, danmaku or whathaveyou.
I just need some general tips on this story, as most of it is already laid out, I'm really concerned about the observers though, I have no idea what to do with them :V
-
I just need some general tips on this story, as most of it is already laid out, I'm really concerned about the observers though, I have no idea what to do with them :V
Observers are tricky things. Often I see them used as sportscasters for fights, nothing more. Too many writers seem to have picked up an unfortunate tendency to provide a character solely to do the play-by-play (“Oh, look! [character A] has just declared [spellcard Y] –insert detailed description–which has had [effect Z]! How amazing!”) I like it when observers get to DO things, not just encouragement, but influence the fights. That might not work for the scene you've got in mind, but I still suggest that you give the observers things to do.
-
Observers are as much audience to a scene as a reader would be. Their sensations and remarks can therefore help to influence those of your readers.
-
Better yet, you can deceive them and surprise the reader~!
-
That kind of already happens. (http://touhou-project.com/gensokyo/) The only thing I don't like about it is that almost none of the main characters are from canon - you never see the world from the point of view of Mokou or Yuuka or Flandre.
Try http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?40712-Leave-Me-Alone%21-%28A-Text-Adventure-starring-Flandre-Scarlet%21%29.
The ones with a cannon character as the view point can be interesting though, theres one with Cirno, another with that bird youkai that Reimu mugged.
-
I'm planning on doing a Yukari Quest, but it's going to be satirical and parody ever damn aspect of Touhou fandom.
-
Question for the authors of PSL.
I've been doing a bit of reading about writing, if that makes sense. I've been having moments where I get too nervous to write, where I get convinced that my writing isn't good enough, that people will pick holes in everything I produce.
But evidently, I'm not alone in that. In fact, from what I've seen in a lot of articles I've read on the subject, fear may actually be part of the writing process.
I'm willing to believe that the majority of writers - if not all writers - are abnormal. Writing is at some level a personal endeavour - you are passing on a small part of yourself in the story, and that means exposure to everyone who might read your work. That's understandably terrifying.
And it's not reduced to amateur writers either. Take this quote:
"It's just a run of the mill book. And the awful thing is that it is absolutely the best I can do. ...I've always had these travails...I never get used to them."
Sounds like any generic Mike R. Writealot. Except this quote is credited to John Steinbeck, while he was writing The Grapes of Wrath.
Maybe the fear of writing is never something you fully escape. No matter how much you study, no matter how much you write, no matter how popular you are or how well you sell, the same fears will always grip you.
And that's why writing takes a degree of courage. The courage to write in spite of your concerns, your fears, your desire to throw the manuscript away and act like it never happened. Maybe my problem is that I hope at some point the fear will go away, but it never does. So maybe I need to learn to write even though it scares me shitless.
Am I alone in this? Anyone else have experience with the fear that comes with exposing a part of yourself to the world? [No, not those parts. Stop thinking dirty, Sect.]
-
I'M AWESOME AND I NEVER FEEL BAD ABOUT EVERYTHING EVER BECAUSE EVERYONE SHOULD LOVE WHAT I WRITE BECAUSE IT'S ME! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Almost every time I update White Rose, the next few hours are spent huddling in a corner somewhere eating comfort food because I'm scared as hell that I just managed to ruin the entire ride for everyone, including myself. It's terrifying.
-
I'm taking an expository writing class this semester, and the first assigned reading was about a food critic talking about "shitty first drafts." He talked about how every time he started he was convinced this was the time he would fail, that this was the end for him. Then he got started after ages of moaning and it turned out fine. I think this is just as true for amateur writers than professionals, perhaps even more since we're not aiming for a paycheck.
-
Hell, I get that feeling even before I start writing. I worry far too much about what I'm trying to get down, and how it's no doubt going to sound extraordinarily stupid if I actually get it down, and how no one would want to read my stupid stuff anyways and gaaah. >.< It doesn't help that I alternate between this, inpenetrable writer's block or a mix of the two at all times. Sigh...
...Also, I guess we need a new tea room now. >.> See you all in the new parlour, I guess!
-
Hell, I get that feeling even before I start writing. I worry far too much about what I'm trying to get down, and how it's no doubt going to sound extraordinarily stupid if I actually get it down [...] and gaaah. >.<
This is pretty much how my writing's gone. Moxie of the Sea is so lonely without me there to update it. :<
Also, you are right; let's give our hosts a chance to clean up a bit, and the parlor will be open again shortly!
-
Furniture is being rearranged, cobwebs are being cleaned, books are being dusted off. Please watch warmly~