Miscellaneous Questions Thread 2 (Please look here before anywhere else)

[Zengar Zombolt]

There's also a fabric that exists which is so thick that Yukari can't pass through it. Toyohime uses it to tie Yukari up in Silent Sinner in Blue, and the Suwa shrine is defended by that fabric also (which is likely why Suwako says to Yukari that her shrine has no holes Yukari can sneak into in her Touhou Hisoutensoku win quote) (like most ZUN things, this fabric actually exists in real life apparently and is at the real world Suwa Shrine, though of course ZUN probably took some liberties)

I wonder, could this be a Shimenawa (The thing that Kanako has on her back, that is also in front of the Suwa shrine in the form of a HUGE knot)?

[Tiamat]

Yea, that's it.  Silent Sinner in Blue specifically points out that it's hanging in front of the Suwa shrine, too.

Basically the reason why she could do it now and not then is because the boundary was complex and she couldn't figure out how to wiggle it open. Once she was able to figure out how it became much easier.

Hmm, that could be it. The current translation at the wiki says "she didn't have enough power at the time", but prior to and after that, it stressed the complexity of the barrier, so "power" might be referring to a different context than what I was originally thinking.

On another note, I just read in Perfect Memento that the Hakurei Border actually consists of several different types of barriers.  The tree barrier was just one of many.  She definately didn't set all of that up just by snapping her fingers.

[Drake]

The phrase she uses in CiLR is 「それは思ったよりも複雑で時間のかかるものでした」 which is more or less literally "It was more complex than she had thought, so it was [long] spanning of time".

[Tiamat]

Ah, I wish I could read Japanese (and well, obviously)

Thanks for the tidbit! That's good to know.

[Excelsus]

Why Miko Toyosatomimi doesnt have a spirit world of her theme?

[Drake]

There isn't really any reason...

[Zengar Zombolt]

I prefer to think that you're so knee-deep into the spirit world already that there isn't too much of a change when you trance.

[Mеа]

Is Flandre really insane? Her dialogues in the Aya interviews suggest that she is actually capable of holding a conversation without blowing stuff up, and isn't spouting crazy nonsense.
Also, what would have happened if Youmu actually did manage to collect enough spring for the Saigyouji Ayakashi to bloom? What would Yuyuko be like?

[Drake]

Is Flandre really insane? Her dialogues in the Aya interviews suggest that she is actually capable of holding a conversation without blowing stuff up, and isn't spouting crazy nonsense.

This is actually a pet peeve of mine, so copypaste time.

Flandre stays in the basement of her own volition because she respects her sister and looks up to her as a motherly figure. It would be easy for her to break out at any time. Remilia holds frequent parties, and Flandre comes out at these times as well; she isn't as bound as most people think she is. Remilia is slowly training her to use her powers on a smaller scale as to not become a menace to the peaceful world they moved to. She doesn't tell Flandre that she eats people because Flan would likely not know any better and flatten the human villages without a second thought. Without human blood to feed on, they would likely both die; so this is necessary for their survival.

She taught her the spell card system, which she actually uses when playing with the heroines, and Remilia fated a meteor to enter Gensokyo's orbit so that Flan could destroy it. While many people think of Remilia as a spoiled bitch, she may be, but she is looking out for her sister and is keeping her powers under control in the best possible way she can. Whether is was out of fear for her life and for others is a different matter entirely. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If Flan wasn't insane to begin with, her powers could have likely driven her to her current state, as well as keeping out of contact with people for many, many years. Social contact is the main influence for people to mature, which Flan did not have. As such, she is burdened with a childish mind, and when she's in the basement her imagination can run wildly, which would also be a large factor.

Flan, if let outdoors, would be able to catch her own food easily, as she would just kill random humans as she pleased, whether she's insane or not. It's her social ineptitude that makes her unable to care for herself and have such a dependence on her sister; as it was probably planned by Remilia in the first place. If Flan's power was that unstable, then making her dependent on the only person who can control her is the perfect way to keep her in check. Flandre respects Remilia more than anyone else and Remilia takes advantage of that to keep her still.

Flandre is obviously more childish than Remilia. If not shown by the dialogue in-game that Remilia is actually fairly civilized as opposed to Flandre, it's also shown in PMiSS and BAiJR. Yes, Remilia is childish, but only in the sense that she might whine or cry when something bad happens, or that she's a bit self-centered. Mostly, she's fairly mature and put-together. The entire reason people call Flan insane to begin with is that nearly any time she's introduced, she will destroy something because of her childlike state of mind and unstable powers, and nobody can see beyond that because they're afraid of her. The difference between Remilia being insane and Flandre being insane isn't because Flandre actually is insane, but because Remilia has been exposed to social interaction her entire life (500 years is enough to act fairly civilized, one would think) and her powers aren't destructive enough to blow up a meteor.

The reason Flan doesn't mind being down in the basement all the time is because ever since she was five she's been locked up. It's what she has done her entire life. She is let out on some occasions, but these are probably regarded as privileges and a special treat, not the basement being a punishment. She looks up to her sister and does what Remilia thinks is best for her, which is probably true.

Flan's behaviour is much like a child; and what would a child do with the power to destroy? They would end up weaving a path of destruction, most likely. Calling it ADHD would be a misdiagnosis. Her psychological and social development is stunted and her powers make her dangerous, but she is not insane. The respect she holds for her sister at the very least shows that she isn't just a maniac. Without her destructive powers, what would she be? Just an "everyday" vampire. There would be no need to keep her in the basement, she would not be socially underdeveloped, and she would probably sit at Remilia's right hand. She would not be dubbed insane.

I conclude that her powers are the entire problem, Flan as a result has a childlike psyche and she is in fact, not insane.

Here's another way of thinking about it. Remilia can manipulate fate. Flandre obeying her and staying in the basement is accomplished because Remilia uses her powers to control Flan' fate. Flan never questioning what she eats, Flan coming up only when Remilia wants her to and respecting Remilia in general: is all controlled by her powers. Why do you think they moved to Gensokyo? Why does Flan only escape from the mansion immediately after the heroines defeats Remilia, and the heroines just so happen to be there on the day Flan gets loose? Think about it.

[Sophilia]

Also, what would have happened if Youmu actually did manage to collect enough spring for the Saigyou Ayakashi to bloom? What would Yuyuko be like?

In that case, there would be no Yuyuko at all.  Blooming the tree would break the seal on the Ayakashi and cause Yuyuko's soul to return to a long-dead body, resulting in death again.  Either her soul would pass into the cycle of reincarnation, or it would be devoured by the Saigyou Ayakashi.  Either way, Yuyuko, as she is, would cease to exist.  Plus, that tree waking up and eating souls would not be good for the afterlife as a whole, seeing as it's, well, full of souls.  So Yuyuko actually succeeding in her plot would pretty much be the equivalent of her pulling an unmarked Fuck The World Lever.

[Excelsus]

Can someone tell me the instrument used in Futo's theme?(I know it is MIDI) I adored it ,it has this old Edo-like japanese theme... especially the harmonica like sound...

[Drake]

SD series banks, Solo 041 Violin 2 vib or SlowVln 2 vib.

[Romantique Tp]

I'm not sure what instrument it is, but I don't think it's either Violin 2 vib or SlowVln2 vib, or even Fiddle 2 vib.

Out of everything I have tried, I found that Halion One's Ryuteki sounds the most like the instrument you hear in Futo's theme.

[Drake]

I'm almost certain it's the violin, but it does sound a bit different (bit smoother, bit less stringy?) in the song than vanilla. Whether it's filters or something I dunno.
it's totally not the ryuteki though

[Arcengal]

Are there any characters in Touhou that can't fly?

Reimu flies through orbs and badassness, Magicians fly through magic, Vampires have wings, ghosts float, Suika turns into a fogbank and goes whereever she wants, but what about the others? Can Rinnosuke fly, for instance?

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Well ... Reimu couldn't fly under her own power in the PC-98 games, so there's at least some special-ness about it. For Rinnosuke in particular, I kind of want to say "no," but I'm not sure this has been explicitly stated one way or the other.

[Drake]

Possibly Rika due to tanks, possibly Rikako although it's said she just doesn't want to.

[KrackoCloud]

I'm not too sure if Marisa can fly. She's always using her broom.

Well, she does fly broom-less in SWR and such, but at the same time, winged characters have limited flight in the fighters, so yeah.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I was always under the impression that Marisa can fly just fine on her own, she just uses a broom because "that's what witches do".

[VIVItheFujoshi]

Well ... Reimu couldn't fly under her own power in the PC-98 games, so there's at least some special-ness about it. For Rinnosuke in particular, I kind of want to say "no," but I'm not sure this has been explicitly stated one way or the other.

in CoLA chapters, he never flies, but i don?t know if is because he don?t like it (he don?t like the danmaku fighting, so flashy) or he can?t. when go to Moenzuka he walks...he have more interest in obtain a shikingami for help him in his dairy works, the traditional or the "outside world" ones. (And now who im thinking, he don?t like to much bright lights, maybe is something with his half breed condition. Or with his eyes.)

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Are there any characters in Touhou that can't fly?

Reimu flies through orbs and badassness, Magicians fly through magic, Vampires have wings, ghosts float, Suika turns into a fogbank and goes whereever she wants, but what about the others? Can Rinnosuke fly, for instance?

Akyu claims in PMiSS that "even without wings we can all fly", although Akyu isn't necessarily the most reliable source.

[Tiamat]

Akyu isn't the most reliable source, but that's only regarding things you shouldn't expect her to know (mainly things to do with the afterlife, long-past history, outside world, or other stuff you just can't expect a human being to know. And the only reason the first three are unreliable is because the Ministry of Right and Wrong and Yukari are sometimes lying through their teeth). In regards to "We can all fly", presumably she's speaking of something that's common knowledge.

I'm pretty sure anyone with enough spiritual power can fly in Gensokyo, unless they have some other thing that would make them a rare exception. For example, Flandre's wings don't work. Sakuya's time stop isn't what enables her flight. Same with Mokou's hourai elixir or Kaguya's relics (Kaguya actually needs items to use spell cards) or power of eternity. They're all able to fly, anyways.

Also, yea, one of Marisa's profiles or something says she can fly just fine without her broom. She just uses it cause it's a witch thing.

[OkashiiKisei]

Akyu isn't the most reliable source, but that's only regarding things you shouldn't expect her to know (mainly things to do with the afterlife, long-past history, outside world, or other stuff you just can't expect a human being to know. And the only reason the first three are unreliable is because the Ministry of Right and Wrong and Yukari are sometimes lying through their teeth). In regards to "We can all fly", presumably she's speaking of something that's common knowledge.

I'm pretty sure anyone with enough spiritual power can fly in Gensokyo, unless they have some other thing that would make them a rare exception. For example, Flandre's wings don't work. Sakuya's time stop isn't what enables her flight. Same with Mokou's hourai elixir or Kaguya's relics (Kaguya actually needs items to use spell cards) or power of eternity. They're all able to fly, anyways.

Also, yea, one of Marisa's profiles or something says she can fly just fine without her broom. She just uses it cause it's a witch thing.

Iku's heavenly garments apparently have the power to grant flight though. Not sure if this means Iku can't fly without her magical clothes or not.

[Tiamat]

Some chars have items that do enable flight. Usually based off of some real world myth or lore, knowing ZUN. Regardless of that, it's still likely probable that anyone can fly in Gensokyo (generally speaking, barring some sort of unique exception, of course). I doubt Akyuu would say something so casually if something that universal could be so easily disproven.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Iku's heavenly garments apparently have the power to grant flight though. Not sure if this means Iku can't fly without her magical clothes or not.

next mental image: iku flying naked.

[_cf]

Timeline question: So today I read this doujinshi (default danbooru warnings apply): http://danbooru.donmai.us/pool/show/4297

It's a rather nice story about the SDM moving into Gensokyo. By the last page, I "corrected" some people who asked about Sakuya, etc. I said then that the SDM arriving in Gensokyo happened a bit after the hakurei barrier closed in 1885, but when I went to check the sources for that I got confused. I had a rather clear head-canon about the SDM timeline but now I'm unsure of what's speculation and what's "fact" (IYKWIM):

So, the main questions:
1) Was Patchouli already on the SDM when it made the jump to Gensokyo?
2) What about Meiling?
3) What's the possible timeframe for the jump?
3) The first vampire incident (where the vampires go on a rampage and are stopped by powerful youkai): How far ago it happened?

I'm tentatively writing a fic about these events, and I don't like contradicting canon (except when I do, but even then I should know the official version to warn the readers beforehand)

[Arcorann]

Regarding the questions above, here's my best attempt:

1. There is no source as to when Patchouli arrived at the SDM. However, she has spent about 100 years (i.e. all her life) around books, and PMiSS states that since the library is very large, it is likely she has lived there for a long time.
2. There is no source as to when Meiling arrived at the SDM, and no evidence to support any date at all.
3. The SDM has been confirmed to be in Gensokyo as early as season 113 (1998); it can be assumed that Remilia and company were residing in it at that time, though this cannot be ascertained. If Patchouli was residing in the SDM at the time of the jump (likely, given that the library contains a large number of books from the outside world) then it must have occurred less than 100 years ago. According to the timeline on thwiki.info, Akyu believes that Remilia arrived after the Vampire Incident, however I have yet to find the evidence that supports this. Combining these, the most likely period for the SDM's arrival in my opinion is shortly before 1998, though of course this is only speculation.
4. The first vampire incident is explicitly stated to occur after Gensokyo's sealing, and assuming the above, must also have occurred before 1998. Any dating in between these is unclear, though it is likely that it occurred relatively close to the implementation of the spell card rules (EoSD, season 118 or 2003 CE).

[Tiamat]

Some extra stuff in case you're interested.  None of the below are confirmative proof for anything, sadly. It's here in case it may help you come to a conclusion about things or avoid contradicting these things, although that conclusion will have to be a speculation since... well, none of the below confirms anything.


The library was originally and specifically built for Patchouli's private use (you can use this fact in combination with the PMiSS fact that it grew so large to guestimate some things... maybe).

Sakuya is not from Gensokyo

Akyu's speculative story speculates that Sakuya was in the mansion before it moved to Gensokyo. She also speculates Sakuya from her mannerisms is at least 100 years old and slowed down her aging using her power to manipulate time (Sakuya herself claims to be in her teens)

Remilia stated that Sakuya has been working at the SDM for so long that it's almost unfitting for her to call Sakuya a human.

Meiling makes enough references to her homeland that it's more than safe to assume she is originally from China (whether or not she went to the SDM or to Gensokyo first is still unknown, of course)

The majority of foreign youkai (besides the SDM, obviously) that weren't from Japan came to Gensokyo 500 years ago during the great youkai immigration project (obviously not applicable if you beileve Meiling came with the SDM).

Far as I can tell, the amount of time between the vampire incident's concluding battle, the contract drawn up afterwards, and the spell card rules drawn up after that is unknown. It could have been a matter of days in between each of those, or maybe even a matter of years (though I imagine the original contract was made very shortly after the battle. Otherwise the vampire would starve).

...um, I still need to look into what's reasonable regarding the SDM's knowledge about outside world travel to the moon. I forget the details on that (beyond Sakuya wondering what the heck an "Armstrong" is).

[game2011]

Are the spell card comments on Touhou Wiki done by ZUN?  Savory pointed out that there are mentions of Shinki in Byakuren's spell cards there.

[Drake]

Only the comments for IN, StB and DS (and Grimoire of Marisa) are by ZUN. The rest are quite well done, but fanmade.