Miscellaneous Questions Thread 2 (Please look here before anywhere else)

[LuphosKyogia]

Mildly interesting questions to me...pretty new at this forum, sorry if I posted too many or something...I'm a curious guy I guess...
Remilia's ability Manipulation of Fate. To what extent does that work? I know it's one of those less explained "theoretical class" abilities, but if that thing's powerful enough, it could be more game-breaking than Yukari's Border Manipulation (which I've always thought is basically gensokyo's end-all cheat)
Anyone know if Flandre has a range to her "Breaking anything" ability?
Chen has no official last name? It's not "Chen Yakumo", just Chen?
And if obedient shikigamis have power near identicall to masters, isn't Ran then a less random Yukari?
Shinki=goddess of makai, but also PC98-Alice was a human. How does Shinki=Alice's Mom then? and how'd Alice turn youkai?
If Cirno can freeze things, can she freeze...time? makeshift a Za Warudo?
Meiling's Manipulation of Chi...she can then shrug off chi-based attacks against her like nothing?
Yuuka's Mansion...is on the border of dreams or something? Doesn't make much sense.
I know she keeps saying she's human, but Marisa is quite probably a youkai by now. Alice changed appearance when she became a youkai, and marisa used to be a redhead! did marisa merely bleach her hair?

interesting point i found one day...
I read once that Sariel, angel of death, was killed by reimu, and resurrected by her hakurei yinyang orbs into a fairy. It doesn't say exactly what fairy, if ANY specific fairy at all, but...if Sariel kept any of her physical features...Sariel was very powerful with 6-wings, blue hair, blue and white colored clothes. What fairy we know fits that description?  :derp:

[Drake]

Remilia's ability Manipulation of Fate. To what extent does that work? I know it's one of those less explained "theoretical class" abilities, but if that thing's powerful enough, it could be more game-breaking than Yukari's Border Manipulation (which I've always thought is basically gensokyo's end-all cheat)
Can't really say. Aside from the whole "changing fate to control the mansion" thing probably going on there isn't much in canon she does with the ability.
Border Manipulation is pretty much end-all, though. You can't really surpass that by going "i changed ur fate so you have no border powerz lul" or "you spontaneously explode" or whatever.

Anyone know if Flandre has a range to her "Breaking anything" ability?
She has to see it, and it has to have an "eye" she can hold. It likely also has to be a physical object too. How those actually work is unknown.

Chen has no official last name? It's not "Chen Yakumo", just Chen?
Probably since Chen is Ran's shikigami, not Yukari's. Might as well say Chen Yakumo though, since Yukari can short-relay commands through Ran.

And if obedient shikigamis have power near identicall to masters, isn't Ran then a less random Yukari?
"Power" is different than "Ability". Ran doesn't possess the power to manipulate gaps, but her danmaku is still very similar to Yukari's.

Shinki=goddess of makai, but also PC98-Alice was a human. How does Shinki=Alice's Mom then? and how'd Alice turn youkai?
Alice turned into a youkai by using the Grimoire. The rest is fanon speculation, aside from Shinki outright saying everything in Makai is hers.

If Cirno can freeze things, can she freeze...time? makeshift a Za Warudo?
No. Stop that.

Meiling's Manipulation of Chi...she can then shrug off chi-based attacks against her like nothing?
It's possible, doesn't really have any basis though. "Manipulation of" is also a stupidly vague term ZUN uses on purpose.

Yuuka's Mansion...is on the border of dreams or something? Doesn't make much sense.
Neither does a of of PC98.

I know she keeps saying she's human, but Marisa is quite probably a youkai by now. Alice changed appearance when she became a youkai, and marisa used to be a redhead! did marisa merely bleach her hair?
does reimu get eye contacts every game? no it's just design changes
probably messed it up with magic; i don't see changing hair color being something difficult to perform
her blonde hair might be her "natural" color anyways

I read once that Sariel, angel of death, was killed by reimu, and resurrected by her hakurei yinyang orbs into a fairy. It doesn't say exactly what fairy, if ANY specific fairy at all, but...if Sariel kept any of her physical features...Sariel was very powerful with 6-wings, blue hair, blue and white colored clothes. What fairy we know fits that description?  :derp:
I haven't ended HRtP ever, but somehow I doubt that kind of info was released in 'canon'. I'd be wary about stuff like that, even without the whole Cirno implication.

[8lue Wizard]

If Cirno can freeze things, can she freeze...time? makeshift a Za Warudo?

Possibly, but she wouldn't have any way to unfreeze it... so she'd just have to wait around for it to thaw out. And she doesn't have that kind of patience.

[Kyaksa]

Koumakyou The doujinshi... I really want to find out who's the artist.

The one where Remilia does the red mist again to provock Reimu into trusting themn toi help her being human other than a System.

TT0TT Made opf awesome.

PS: this question will probably take forever to find but... since I have limited time I wanted to ask another question.

What's the symbolic meaning behind Remilia dropping (everything!) stuff? I mean in most videos you do see it often so I'm a bit curious

[Sungho]

Koumakyou The doujinshi... I really want to find out who's the artist.

The one where Remilia does the red mist again to provoke Reimu into trusting them to help her being human other than a System.

I think it's Chado's from Tohonifun. I'm not sure.

[Helix ⑨]

Where can I get a score.dat for shoot the bullet that unlocks all spellcards? I want to have a go at extra stage.

[OkashiiKisei]

If Cirno can freeze things, can she freeze...time? makeshift a Za Warudo?

Cirno's ability is 'manipulation of cold', not 'power to freeze things'. Cirno can't freeze time by literally making it cold so no, she can't freeze time.

[Drake]

The prevailing theory is that she has the ability to manipulate temperature as a whole, so she would be able to slow particle movement to the point of no/little energy transferal. I guess in some people's minds it would somehow "slow time down". There are just so many things wrong with that kind of speculation, though.

[Zengar Zombolt]

I don't think lack of energy can be perceived as slowing of time, in my opinion.
But having the potential to reach absolute zero is quite scary.

[Drake]

It just gets to that point when people interpret "Manipulation of" as some kind of complete and absolute control over whatever the next word is. "Cold" doesn't even exist if you want to talk scientifically about a magical phenomenon. If you wanted to literally godmode how Cirno's powers are described it would be "to control the flow of energy/heat in an endothermic reaction" or some crap like that, which not only wouldn't make sense in thermodynamics since the energy doesn't actually go anywhere, it wouldn't actually make ice. Cirno's ability lets her freeze the water vapor in the air and condense it into manageable forms of ice, or uncontrolled it becomes mist or something like that. It's goddamn magic. There's no point in comparing depths of science to Gensokyo; even when science is actually involved, such as Kanayamabiko no Mikoto making a metal necessary for cold fusion out of essentially nothing. It's science, but you shouldn't care about how it/if it works.

[Forte Blackadder]

Remilia's ability Manipulation of Fate. To what extent does that work? I know it's one of those less explained "theoretical class" abilities, but if that thing's powerful enough, it could be more game-breaking than Yukari's Border Manipulation (which I've always thought is basically gensokyo's end-all cheat)

Fate is a string, and Remilia can do whatever to one's string. However, the string isn't existing by its own, it connects to others. So change one tiny bit she can bring the whole system down (like the "time travel" thing). Because the risk is too much Remilia can't probably use her power much, most of the time she would just observe. Yukari's gap ability in other hand something out of all rules, she can change something from another dimension so it won't affect anything else. (e.g you're in the 3rd dimension, so to the 2nd dimension like a paper, you can erase a paragraph, a picture without touching other part of the paper.)

Anyone know if Flandre has a range to her "Breaking anything" ability?

Like Shiki's eyes (typemoon), but instant hit regardless the distance as long as she can see the target.

Chen has no official last name? It's not "Chen Yakumo", just Chen?

She's not good enough to be a Yakumo. Not yet.

And if obedient shikigamis have power near identicall to masters, isn't Ran then a less random Yukari?

Shikigami is something that summoned by the master and act independently with its master's power. But it's just about mana actually.

Meiling's Manipulation of Chi...she can then shrug off chi-based attacks against her like nothing?

Nope, like how a fire pokemon still gets hit by a fire attack, thought it does get reduced in power. Meiling has control on Chi but it's her own Chi, like a master of kungfu, she may be able to change the flow of Chi with techniques seen in Wudang, but she can't just sit there and take the hit without getting damaged.

Yuuka's Mansion...is on the border of dreams or something? Doesn't make much sense.

Why are you talking about sense in a world where 1700+ years old hags look like 17 years old high school girls with absolute juicy bodies and 2 kids are living alone beating monsters daily for fun?

I know she keeps saying she's human, but Marisa is quite probably a youkai by now. Alice changed appearance when she became a youkai, and marisa used to be a redhead! did marisa merely bleach her hair?

Marisa is as youkai as Reimu is a zombie.

If Cirno can freeze things, can she freeze...time? makeshift a Za Warudo?

Coldness makes things moves slower. And we all know that "time" is defined by lightspeed. So if Cirno can take an area to absolute zero, where nothing moves (no heat), then it possible to get a za warudo in one's view point (of course, when you see nothing moves you guess it's freezed time right). However this is only temperament, because as soon as "heat" gets in the area (sunlight or any kind of fast movement like Aya's) the za warudo gets crushed. So I say it's possible for Cirno to "stop time", but impossible to maintain it to do anything. Sakuya's ability on the other hand doesn't work the same way, but heck, I'm not qualified to explain it.

[Drake]

hey guys i have a great idea let's make up rules in a thread about canon

Fate is a string, and Remilia can do whatever to one's string.
If those rules were actually hinted at and applied, maybe. Really we know very little about what "fate" means.

Like Shiki's eyes (typemoon), but instant hit regardless the distance as long as she can see the target.
Like I said before, the only things we can really say is that she has to see it and it needs an eye. We can't really say it's autokill, even if she did blow up a meteor.

She's not good enough to be a Yakumo. Not yet.
lolwat

Shikigami is something that summoned by the master and act independently with its master's power. But it's just about mana actually.
" Shikigami aren't a particular class of youkai, but is more like a status condition. When this condition is in effect, we write that here as being "possessed". "
The familiar spirit that possesses the slave grants power proportional to the distance between them and their master. There is no real "mana", but it does take a lot of power to be able to keep a link between yourself and your familiar spirit. I guess you could say they act independently, but they still have to follow orders.

Nope, like how a fire pokemon still gets hit by a fire attack, thought it does get reduced in power. Meiling has control on Chi but it's her own Chi, like a master of kungfu, she may be able to change the flow of Chi with techniques seen in Wudang, but she can't just sit there and take the hit without getting damaged.
You're still making up your own rules. You can't concretely say anything about it if it hasn't been explained or shown anywhere. It's probably safe to assume that she can't just get hit by any chi technique without damage, but there's nothing that says she can't nullify it or bounce it or whatever. There's not really any foundation for anything on this subject.

Marisa is as youkai as Reimu is a zombie.
As far as defined canon goes I'd have to agree; but I do maintain the belief that Marisa is slowly becoming a youkai magician, since there are various hints in canon that point to her becoming one. But that doesn't really matter.

Coldness makes things moves slower. And we all know that "time" is defined by lightspeed. So if Cirno can take an area to absolute zero, where nothing moves (no heat), then it possible to get a za warudo in one's view point (of course, when you see nothing moves you guess it's freezed time right). However this is only temperament, because as soon as "heat" gets in the area (sunlight or any kind of fast movement like Aya's) the za warudo gets crushed. So I say it's possible for Cirno to "stop time", but impossible to maintain it to do anything. Sakuya's ability on the other hand doesn't work the same way, but heck, I'm not qualified to explain it.
hrmrmrmrrmrmrmrm not really.

[Forte Blackadder]

Actually those rules will never be given in Touhou canon. If we wanna discuss with what ZUN said we better not discussing anything at all, because I have the feeling he doesn't even know about them himself. ZUN just made the game with danmaku, put random ability on random character and spend all his time composing music, that's all.

"Fate" can be described as a thread in Greek Myth, or a book in Chinese Myth which is absolute and controllable by the authorities. But it's heavily connected to other fates so rarely it changes. Of course we don't know about fate or there is any scientific evidence on that, so we just assume. And I admit I have to assume it based on my viewpoint.

I don't say Flan's ability is OHKO, I always think of it as a very strong force that crushes the target. However it has to have something to do with the target's weak points.

About Meiling, I don't say she can't nullify Chi damage. I said "if she doesn't do anything she will get hit". So if she uses a technique, provided she does master Chinese kungfu, she can damn well nullify any force. These points I used from various Chinese martial arts, real and also fiction, and it's the only source on Chi actually.

It's certainly impossible to not applying your rules/viewpoint to a matter in a discussion, that's the whole point of "discussion". And apart from character's background, attitude and relationship don't use canon in Touhou discussion. Because you know it's too vague and ZUN made them up using other canon too (hence why he called it "a doujin game"). I'm using other materials that I see fit to apply to Touhou, if you think it's no good then I'll stop, but note that it may be what ZUN used.

[Drake]

That's a good enough answer for me.

[OkashiiKisei]

It just gets to that point when people interpret "Manipulation of" as some kind of complete and absolute control over whatever the next word is. "Cold" doesn't even exist if you want to talk scientifically about a magical phenomenon. If you wanted to literally godmode how Cirno's powers are described it would be "to control the flow of energy/heat in an endothermic reaction" or some crap like that, which not only wouldn't make sense in thermodynamics since the energy doesn't actually go anywhere, it wouldn't actually make ice. Cirno's ability lets her freeze the water vapor in the air and condense it into manageable forms of ice, or uncontrolled it becomes mist or something like that. It's goddamn magic. There's no point in comparing depths of science to Gensokyo; even when science is actually involved, such as Kanayamabiko no Mikoto making a metal necessary for cold fusion out of essentially nothing. It's science, but you shouldn't care about how it/if it works.

Except the showcases of Yukari's power in the backstory and the novels certainly show this is the case. Yukari can manipulate borders all the way to the metaphorical point. After all, she can manipulate like the border between life and death and the border between fact and fantasy. If she didn't have absolute control of the the word 'boundary' she wouldn't be able to do that. Yukari would only be able to control literal borders, like walls and the borders between countries and areas.

If we assume magic 'rules' are relatively consistent in Gensokyo any ability can be used in such a way. Cirno could theoretically use a temporary time freeze following the thermodynamics logic if she trained enough and had enough power to back it up. 'Manipulation of' is a very vague term to begin with. To manipulate something is to literally control it, so whatever the next word is you gain complete control over it. However, practice is most likely crucial when usng these abilities, since you need to learn how to control the ability's word and its various applications.

I personally really like this approach for abilities. It allows one to come with very original uses for even the most (seemingly) useless of abilities. The game-breaking potential of this ability gets canceled out due to everyone having such an ability, basically balancing it. Besides, the official material have hardly explained to what extent the abilities can be used, not has it described limits. It's safe to assume that one has full control of their 'word', though not everyone is equally powerful because experience and personal, raw, magic force also play major roles. Because of this it is very hard to make out how strong a Touhou really is and powerleveling in Touhou is basically impossible. Every Touhou character might have some hidden trump card, secret power, additional skills and held back strength that they save for a real fight between life and death. Experience, smarts, tactics and terrain advantage also play very large roles.

However, in the end the ol' 'Touhou is vague and completely open for speculation' rule comes into play yet again. My explanation might be every, very wrong, but it's impossible to be sure.

[LuphosKyogia]

If Cirno can freeze things, can she freeze...time? makeshift a Za Warudo?

I actually asked this semi-jokingly, :ohdear: and was kinda satisfied with "no, stop that"...

If this question's any less theoretical...Does the giant catfish actually exist in gensokyo, or was that strictly Meiling's dream? It says at the end that she saw another figure in her dream, worse than Taisui Xingjun, that one day all of gensokyo may have to work together to defeat (but can't remember what it is, cause SDM woke her up), which made it seem like the giant catfish was actually a proper character, and Meiling actually solved an incident.

[Whatthe]

Does anyone know if either Stephen or Jack Quire are aware that their Greatest freak out ever (ORIGINAL VIDEO) is referenced in Heartful Nekoromancer's PV?

[Drake]

Are you aware that the video is referenced constantly in many many other japanese videos as well?

[Whatthe]

Are you aware that the video is referenced constantly in many many other japanese videos as well?

Referenced? I had thought it was mostly remixes. But yeah, never mind about that question.

Better one: Does the original "Yukkuri shiteitte ne!" ASCII art still exist anywhere? (Not just the top part?that's everywhere?what I'm curious about is the complete "Marisa and Reimu with floating heads" picture.)

[Drake]

The original picture is just the floating heads.

　　 _,,....,,_　 ＿人人人人人人人人人人人人人人人＿
-''":::::::::::::｀''＞　　　ゆっくりしていってね！！！　　　＜
ヽ:::::::::::::::::::::￣^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^Ｙ^￣
　|::::::;ノ?￣＼:::::::::::＼_,. -‐ｧ　　　　　＿_　　 _____　　 ＿_____
　|::::ﾉ　　　ヽ､ヽr-r'"?　　（.__　　　　,?　_,, '-?￣￣｀-ゝ 、_ イ、
_,.!イ_　　_,.ﾍｰｧ'二ﾊ二ヽ､へ,_7　　　'r ?　　　　　　　　　　ヽ、ﾝ、
::::::rｰ''7ｺ-‐'"?　 　 ;　 ',　｀ヽ/｀7　,'＝=─-　　　 　 -─=＝',　i
r-'ｧ'"?/　 /!　ﾊ 　ハ　 !　　iヾ_ﾉ　i　ｲ　iゝ、ｲ人レ／_ルヽｲ i　|
!イ? ,' |　/__,.!/　V　､!__ﾊ　 ,'　,ゝ　ﾚﾘｲi (ﾋ_] 　　 　ﾋ_ﾝ ).| .|、i .||
`! 　!/ﾚi'　(ﾋ_] 　　 　ﾋ_ﾝ ﾚ'i　ﾉ　　　!Y!""　 ,＿__, 　 "" 「 !ﾉ i　|
,'　 ﾉ 　 !'"　 　 ,＿__,　 "' i .ﾚ'　　　　L.',.　 　ヽ _ﾝ　　　　L」 ﾉ| .|
　（　　,ﾊ　　　　ヽ _ﾝ　 　人! 　　　　 | ||ヽ、　　　　　　 ,ｲ| ||ｲ| /
,.ﾍ,）､　　）＞,､ _____,　,.イ　 ハ　　　　レ ル｀ ー--─ ?ルﾚ　ﾚ?

[Whatthe]

The original picture is just the floating heads.

Oh, no wonder.

I had read was something along the lines of "the heads were cut off by mistake" so I thought that meant they had bodies that they were cut off from.

Thanks!

[touhoumaniac]

Is there a patch for MoF to fix marisa B?

[Drake]

Vsync patch gives you an option to remove it.

[touhoumaniac]

Thanks. I just finished watching the WR score for MoF lunatic marisaB and it looks like it is allowed to use the bug o.O?

[Drake]

Of course using the bug you can get higher scores due to spell card bonuses, and the cleared danmaku means you can kill more enemies. But to manage your power at 3.00 means that you always have power items everywhere, so the faith potential there is lost; it means you need to deathbomb on purpose so you don't receive the bombing faith drop (and failing results in a life drop which kills 100k and the clear bonus right there), and in general it makes for a more exciting experience, I suppose.

[Tengukami]

Marisa B can be a lot of fun, as Drake said, and while 3-second spell cards are hilarious, there is an added challenge in dodging power items, pointlessly bombing to maintain 3.x, and having to ride it out with a weak as hell shot type if you drop below this by a hair.

[LHCling]

Don't forget, clearing Spell Cards at not!MaxPower means that you're also missing out on potential Point Items, which really hurts your score more than a part of the Spell Card bonus from "time lost".

Is there a limit to how many user replays you can have that will show up in-game?

15+45 for a total of 60 for PCB and IN. Unconfirmed for EoSD but I think it would be the case there as well.
25 for MoF
25+50 for a total of 75 for SA onward.

[Yukarin]

How many games in Touhou besides PC-98 are affected by rank?

Is grazing fuckin useless in MoF?

[Zengar Zombolt]

How many games in Touhou besides PC-98 are affected by rank?

EoSD, and very small portions of PCB.

Is grazing fuckin useless in MoF?

Yes.

[Wark]

In PoDD, Kotohime's level 2&3 spell attacks are called "All-directional E.E.B.". What does "E.E.B." stand for?