Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F  (Read 245412 times)

Zil

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #660 on: May 04, 2013, 02:36:43 PM »
She's very all-or-nothing. She's either taking no damage at all or dying instantly. Personally, when I used her, I found her to not be durable enough as well, but overall party level is going to make a significant difference. I don't know about you, but I generally tried to keep my team as low a level as possible while still exploring everything. But if somebody's grinding for bosses and reaching higher levels, especially if they're using, say, a draft team with lots of weaker characters, she probably ends up a much more potent character.

That, and as someone who was just trying her out to see how well she works, you've probably invested less skill points in her than someone who knows they're going all the way with her. She'll be lower level as well, etc. All of that matters more than you'd expect, since as I mentioned she's a character who needs to stay just above a certain threshold of invincibility. A bit to weak and she's suddenly crap.

Raikaria

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #661 on: May 04, 2013, 03:18:27 PM »
Well, I'm in the mood to try and actually complete some kinda of self-imposed semi-challenge run without getting some save error or blooper where I erase the save file by accident somehow. [Or a Virus on my laptop which forces me to wipe the entire thing]


If there are people interested in a draft run, I'll organize said run, probobly in about 5 or 6 hours. If not, I'll do something I tried before, and RNG some numbers, and decide a party of 12 that way. [Which involves generating numbers from 1-40 on RNG.org or a similar RNG [I just use RNG.org because I can pluck multiple at once], and applying those numbers to characters. Reimu = 1, Marisa = 2, Remilia = 3 and so on]

If I recall last time I tried that the closest thing I had to a real tank was Ran.


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Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #662 on: May 04, 2013, 03:42:18 PM »
Yeah, sounds about right. Yukari's 81, Reimu's 97 and Tenshi 88. Although the differences are smaller than I'd think from looking at the wiki's level up difficulties.

Thats cuz the level up ratio on the wiki is telling you their differences assuming equal level, but they are t equal for very long. Soo, naturally reimu's level 97 is going to be alot more than 90% of yukari's 81's 140%.. Reimu's 81 was that ratio but her 82 was more, and her 83 even more, etc.

Raikaria

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #663 on: May 04, 2013, 09:16:09 PM »
OK, I found a better mass RNG which can create unique numbers at once!

So, let's see what 12 numbers I made...

10 14 25 3 19 22 7 18 36 12 1 21

So that's...
10- Youmu
14 - Yuugi
25 - Mokou
3 - Remilia
19 - Sanae
22 - Reisen
7 - Meiling
18 - Suwako
36 - Kanako
12- Rumia
1 - Reimu
21 - Ran

Well, on one side, I got Meiling, Reimu, and Ran.

On the other hand I lack any *real* magic nukes. Kanako and Mokou don't really cut it. I have physical damage from Youmu and Yuugi.

I also lack great trashclearing [I guess I can go full MAG Sanae and make use of Guest Stars, and a more offensive Ran build], and speed buffs.


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LadyScarlet

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #664 on: May 04, 2013, 09:26:54 PM »
Hey, Reisen has an AMAZING debuff and Suwako has an outstanding paralysis nuke only trumped by Mystia; can't complain about that  :V

Plus, you got the entire Moriya crew!
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #665 on: May 04, 2013, 11:42:51 PM »
Quote
I also lack great trashclearing [I guess I can go full MAG Sanae and make use of Guest Stars, and a more offensive Ran build], and speed buffs.

You might want to build Suwako for trash clearing then. None of the others look like they are very good for trash clearing. Youmu can can clear, but that's late game where she has the SP to start using her nukes.

Raikaria

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #666 on: May 04, 2013, 11:48:02 PM »
A trashclearing Suwako is an option, but her natural growths are pretty good.

I just realized that the fast enemy types are going to be a complete nightmare, as I lack any fast characters.


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Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #667 on: May 05, 2013, 12:12:53 AM »
Remi's fast... Granted she can only scrag one at a time but it still helps =p.
Honestly that makeup is better than id expect a random to be.

Raikaria

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #668 on: May 05, 2013, 12:46:24 AM »
Remi's fast... Granted she can only scrag one at a time but it still helps =p.
Honestly that makeup is better than id expect a random to be.

You're randoming 12/40. The odds that at least someone good will slip through [Like Meiling, Iku, Reimu, Minoriko, ect] are pretty high. I got quite a few, but this is balanced out by the fact I've got a severe lack of speed and trashclear, as well as magic nukers. Mokou/Kanako are not exactly great, and Suwako's nuke is physical, when I have two other physical nukers.


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I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #669 on: May 05, 2013, 01:55:42 AM »
I think people pay more attention to the balance of physical/magical nukers sometimes then is actually important.

There's a pretty small number of battles where it actually matters (Yuyuko, a couple random enemies), and even then Double Hibachi is the only one where it's seriously something to pay attention to. And the bosses where it matters at all are all fights you can get away with just fighting later when you're overleveled.

You've got enough of the powerful "team core" members, along with other quite useful people, that... really, you shouldn't have a lot more issue then a normal party run. It'll be more irritating in some randoms and several of your members are pretty SP-costly to deal any good damage, but it's a very good draw for randomized.
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Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #670 on: May 05, 2013, 02:06:52 AM »
Okay, I'm just wondering: How much do you really need to grind up for Yukari? Because my party is sitting somewhere between levels 60 and 70 and Floor 16 is a bitch to grind on (I can kill everything with the exception of those freaking ghosts with the PAR effect and those dark elemental guys) and it takes pretty much forever to gain any levels. At this point, I'm about ready to give up this game, because I can't stand the randoms anymore.
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Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #671 on: May 05, 2013, 02:23:35 AM »
It's better to grind on one of the lower floors, really. EXP difference is really small and the battles go a lot faster.

Reimu level is the one people pay attention to more. Beating Yukari would be somewhere in Reimu 70s probably.

Main thing to keep in mind is Yukari has like, 0 debuff resist. Lay them oooon. And when she's about to form shift, you can nuke the hell out of her before your sp gets drained off, as you know her next two moves will be harmless.

She's weak to NTR, but unless you're using Suwako, this probably isn't very significant.
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Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #672 on: May 05, 2013, 02:39:04 AM »
Okay, yeah, grinding is a lot more smooth on F15. No more enemies slamming me with paralysis, poison, and occasionally silence. I even turned off battle animations so grinding goes even faster.
My Reimu's 69 right now, I think. I don't think that's enough for Yukari, though (considering the one time I tried to see how screwed I would be, I got Discarder off once before losing almost all of my party to her insanely fast attacks. She's FAST).
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Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #673 on: May 05, 2013, 02:56:27 AM »
Yukari stomped me hard on my first playthru and made my jaw drop when everyone else said she was easy.
Then i found cootiesuke to be a complete pushover and made my jaw drop when everyone said he was crazy hard... Looking forward to seeing what you think about him =p.

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #674 on: May 05, 2013, 03:09:56 AM »
I have to get to him first, though. Of course, it sounds like he's hard with the whole elemental form thing, but I haven't actually fought him or seen the fight, so... yeah.
Also, Remilia has finally been supplanted by someone else on my title screen! By whom? Meiling. Yep. For some reason, I'm using her as my front slot person while grinding, even though I was using Komachi earlier (because Helbemares on F16 dislike Instant Death... most of the time). Not that it really matters who is in my front slot right now, because the only things on F15 that can actually get a turn in are the tengu people, but unless they do Slash Dive they aren't a threat (plus I'm pretty much almost able to completely outspeed them at this point due to all the grinding).
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Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #675 on: May 05, 2013, 04:30:09 AM »
(considering the one time I tried to see how screwed I would be, I got Discarder off once before losing almost all of my party to her insanely fast attacks. She's FAST).
Yeah, I liked having Cirno for immediate full speed debuff on Yukari, actually. >>
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #676 on: May 05, 2013, 07:15:08 AM »
yeah that's true... yukari is def a boss that kinda benefits from the player not sticking with 12 characters at all time more than most bosses (unless your 12 is already good for her).. when I fought her, I didn't have ANY good debuffers...or suwako... speed (and mag) debuffing her really really helps. even if your debuffer is behind in levels and skp, they can really contribute....At that point though I gave up with debuffs because of too many previous bosses resisting my attempts.

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #677 on: May 05, 2013, 01:49:30 PM »
I'm perfectly aware of the fact that Yukari has 0 debuff resistance, hence why I have Reisen for Discarder. Hopefully I can get a third Blue Saber for her so she can have 12% more SP recovery. I'm already swimming in the various F15 drops (like Rings of Hades, Crystal Orbs, and Explode Monkey Lord DXs). I should really sell some of those for extra SKP.
My Reimu is now level 78, by the way. So, she's jumped 9 levels since yesterday. I think I'm getting to the point where I can take on Yukari, but I'm going to grind out a few more levels before then. I simply just fight on F15 until I get 50000 SKP, then level everyone and distribute SKP, then repeat. Every run levels everyone at least once (sometimes twice) and gives a few drops. It's definitely better than the horrors of F16.
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SirChaotick

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #678 on: May 05, 2013, 02:57:42 PM »
I'm perfectly aware of the fact that Yukari has 0 debuff resistance, hence why I have Reisen for Discarder. Hopefully I can get a third Blue Saber for her so she can have 12% more SP recovery. I'm already swimming in the various F15 drops (like Rings of Hades, Crystal Orbs, and Explode Monkey Lord DXs). I should really sell some of those for extra SKP.
My Reimu is now level 78, by the way. So, she's jumped 9 levels since yesterday. I think I'm getting to the point where I can take on Yukari, but I'm going to grind out a few more levels before then. I simply just fight on F15 until I get 50000 SKP, then level everyone and distribute SKP, then repeat. Every run levels everyone at least once (sometimes twice) and gives a few drops. It's definitely better than the horrors of F16.
That seems about fine. I seem to remember having Reimu level 73 when I beat her, and I'm pretty much a newbie as well, so it should be feasible to strike her down at your level. Although it did take several tries.

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #679 on: May 05, 2013, 03:52:23 PM »
And she's done. That was somewhat intense, but I got through it without losing anyone except Iku, I think (she's supposed to have a really good MND, so how the hell did she die so easily???). But whatever the case, it's time to move on to Floor 17! Woo!
Also, I find it funny that some people think that once she uses IN Quadruple Barrier in her third form, it's all over for you. I just kept piling on the Discarders and Narrow Confines of Avicis to bring her back down to size.
EDIT: So basically, Floor 17 is just something you rush through? Okay then. I'll just get through this quickly and head for Floor 18 as soon as possible.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 04:02:57 PM by Validon98 »
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #680 on: May 05, 2013, 05:55:08 PM »
Anybody knows why my NG+ Gets corrupted? Like characters start with exp or broken aff, why does this happen? I had to download a clean NG+ (Plus BP done) for my game, otherwise i would be abit screwed

I am thinking of doing the game again Now surely without changing characters mid run and the same build via level up

Meiling-HP
Reimu-MAG
Marisa-MAG
Kaguya-MAG
Utsuho_MAG
Renko-SPD
Suika-ATK
Yuugi-ATK
Aya-ATK
Flandre-ATK
Komachi-ATK
Ran-MAG

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #681 on: May 05, 2013, 06:25:50 PM »
Ahh yes, yet another person who thinks def stats are useless =/.
Mag reimu is silly, hp china when you have a komachi is also questionable, i suggest defensive ran too but her complsite attack CAN be good, though doesnt it benefit from mag more? I forget.

I suggest defensive renko too.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #682 on: May 05, 2013, 06:48:18 PM »
Ahh yes, yet another person who thinks def stats are useless =/.
Mag reimu is silly, hp china when you have a komachi is also questionable, i suggest defensive ran too but her complsite attack CAN be good, though doesnt it benefit from mag more? I forget.

I suggest defensive renko too.

Well thats for what SKP are for, dump into them what you cant on level up  :V And SPD renko is what allowed me to par lock winner to death

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #683 on: May 05, 2013, 06:57:08 PM »
SKP is also used to boost the stats that you boost from level ups. Honestly, an HP built Meiling through "active" level up boosts and DEF only raised by the "natural" level up boosts and SKP is not as good as a DEF built Meiling. I might not have played as long as you, but I understand leveling mechanics and builds. >.>
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #684 on: May 05, 2013, 07:04:28 PM »
SKP is also used to boost the stats that you boost from level ups. Honestly, an HP built Meiling through "active" level up boosts and DEF only raised by the "natural" level up boosts and SKP is not as good as a DEF built Meiling. I might not have played as long as you, but I understand leveling mechanics and builds. >.>

I honestly prefer Hp meiling over her Def due to the number of def ignoring moves on plus disk

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #685 on: May 05, 2013, 07:05:30 PM »
I honestly prefer Hp meiling over her Def due to the number of def ignoring moves on plus disk

That's what Komachi is for. :P
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #686 on: May 05, 2013, 07:20:07 PM »
That's what Komachi is for. :P

To stop arguing I also prefer atk Komachi  :3

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #687 on: May 06, 2013, 02:34:22 AM »
HP Komachi is really pointless unless you're purely bringing her in for a Last Judgment tank or seriously do not care about any of her offense moves because you're gonna dump her or something

But anyway, "that's why skp is for" isn't really a valid answer. You're gonna use SKP on those no matter which stat you put levelup bonuses into, the point is that you want lots of SKP -and- your levelup bonuses on them :P

Reimu's heal is perfectly fine in a MND build (And her attacks still aren't much good in a MAG build, I did that on my first playthrough). You at least have a decent reason for a Meiling hp build, even though I'd still recommend DEF. Renko can go either way because she doesn't really need to stay out in boss fights a whole lot of the time.

Also Ran's composite attack is ~*~amazing~*~
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Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #688 on: May 06, 2013, 05:23:47 AM »
Also Ran's composite attack is ~*~amazing~*~

Yes it is...but spending level up points into attack is just shooting yourself in the foot... if you want an attack ran use magic.. not only does that buff her other spells too, but it buffs her composite attack just as much as atk does... In fact, it would buff it MORE becuase the formula uses both atk and mag equally, and ran naturally has higher mag, so upping her mag% via level up bonuses is only going to contribute more to the overall formula.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #689 on: May 06, 2013, 08:32:39 PM »
his post said MAG on Ran at the time of my response and I never said anything about raising Attack over Magic, so o:
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore