Justice Juice Mafia Thread I (NIGHT 3)

[Kilgamayan]

Yes, please, more people should suspect me. Maybe then scum will avoid killing me tonight and I'll smash another one of their team members in the face on D3. Whaddaya say, scummies? Are you feeling lucky?

I'm not going to have time to respond properly to that deluge of words until D3 because I'm not getting home until 2.5 hours before the deadline. I will say I find it humorous that replacing the player hasn't changed the playerslot's opinion that Shadowy is town for no reason. Apparently blatant lying is a null tell now? That's news to me.

I just said I wasn't going to hammer, don't shout at me to not hammer. Fearmongering much?

Cheez: SB's gone at the end of the day, so I still want to give him some time for one more post if he wants it, even given how recently he posted.

[Mitsuki]

Shadoweh is null, not town.
When are you saying that she lied, anyways? I haven't noticed that.

Sooooooosh Kilga, you can reply whenever you want. It's not like you'll get lynched today...
I'm not shouting at anyone, sorry if it gave that impression. Also, I don't even know what to say about the "fearmongering" thing, I didn't even know what it meant until now and it just feels like you're critisizing my personality. But I'd rather not keep talking about this. If you're not scum, show me why you're town, not why I'm a terrible person or something.

[Kilgamayan]

I apologize if my attitude is off-putting, both this game day and the past few days at work have been very frustrating. Shadowy's constant misrepresentation of what's been brought to bear against her and general emotional predatory tendencies have been tiring, and seeing a case I've put a game day-and-a-half of effort into get brushed aside as 'a bunch of null tells' pushed a really big button.

Shadowy's blatant lie is covered in the second bullet point of #581. You'll have to go back over late Day 1 to actually see it in action. I've mentioned several times since then, which makes you saying you didn't see it further disheartening.

As for the hammer comment thing, your "Seriously, don't hammer" right after I said I was going to wait for SB to post at least once more looked like you were trying to paint me as scummy (since it was right on the heels of a large case against me) by accusing me of threateninf to hammer early. This is what I meant by "fearmongering" - it looked like you were trying to make people think I was going to hammer when I said I wasn't. It has nothing to do with player personality.

You claim you think Shadowy's null but you've said you won't vote for her (or NNR), "probably not even to secure a lynch." This is pretty incongruous. Why would you let No Lynch happen instead of securing a lynch on someone you don't have a super-strong town read on?

[Shadoweh]

##Unvote
##Vote: Kilgamayan

What blatant lie? Are you talking about that SB thing? Reading the link it seems you are. You know once you pointed them out I told you I hadn't read what he'd said and dropped it right?

[Shadoweh]

Also rofl at 'general emotional predatory tendencies'. I AM THE BIG BAD SCARU SHADOWEH. Newsflash that is what I do as town. Stop trying to lynch me for being me.
Not that I expect this to work but I don't think you'll live through tomorrow like this.

[Mitsuki]

My internet connection isn't working well today (and I'm always being way too paranoid anyways). My intention was telling everyone not to hammer, and I feared that my post would be skipped and someone would hammer, so I had to repeat that (>_<)

I won't vote for Shadoweh because my scumreads are strong this game. But well, that shouldn't be a problem for people who actually want to lynch her...

Anyways, if you mean this is Shadoweh's lie... I don't really see it. I'm not saying she was right, because she wasn't, but the reasoning doesn't seem like a lie to me, it just seems to be wrong.
... I don't really see why afterwards she says you said she was right, though. She should definitely clarify this, but I don't get why anybody would lie in such an obvious way, it serves no purpose. I think she just misunderstood you.

Shadoweh: Here

[Mitsuki]

Kilga, I didn't notice that you suspected Shadoweh D1. From what I've seen, the SB kill made you change your opinion on her, and you classified her as neutral in your reads list, changing your opinion afterwards. Ok, I now I see your Shadoweh vote makes sense, ignore the part of my case where I say it doesn't.

[Kilgamayan]

Mitsuki: That first link brings up the Post Reply page. :V Regardless, the lie in question is in #275, when Shadowy says SB is scummy for "clinging to the DNA wagon when everyone else fled it and won't return." I call it a lie instead of a misinterpretation or just being "wrong" because (a) it would have taken no time at all to see SB hadn't posted since the DNA wagon dissolved, and (b) she claimed in #296 that her comment was justified.

Basically, in really simplified terms, here's what happened.

"SB is scummy for (thing that is easily seen to be factually incorrect)."
"That comment isn't justified because that's not what had happened when you posted."
"It is justified and you agreed it was justified when you pointed out that thing he said after I made the comment in the first place."
"No, I didn't agree with you, and it still didn't happen. (Later: "Also, it still isn't justified by that post I pointed at.")
"I should actually read SB to see if he's voteworthy."

Does that really look like honest townie scumhunting to you? Making an assertion about someone being scummy that's based on a premise that's factually incorrect and then admitting you didn't actually read the person's posts when you get called on it?

[Raikaria]

Votecount 2.85

Shadoweh (5): Sky_Paladin, Validon98, Polaris, NekoNekoRex, Darkninjaabc
NekoNekoRex (1): SB
Sky_Paladin (1): Dormio
Dormio (1): Cheez8
Kilgamayan (2): Mitsuki, Shadoweh

Not Voting (1): Kilgamayan

It's 6 to lynch and 8 hours 29 mins remaining.
(Countdown)

[Mitsuki]

What I think is that she didn't pay enough attention so she misinterpreted what happened and then afterwards she realised about her error. It happens to me a lot and I try hard to avoid it, so I can see that happening to someone else who is clearly not motivated.

It just feels like she doesn't care much about the game. I know it's not the proper thing to do, and it's definitely not something that helps town. But it's still something neutral in my opinion.
Not like this matters now, anyways... (=w=u I'm going to focus on finishing my Validon post.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Yo, what's up.
I'm going to assume that nobody wants me to hammer right now and work along with that assumption.

I can't really find myself agreeing with Mitsuki's Kilgamayan case.

Also, I'm not the only one that finds this post to be hilarious, am I?

[Mitsuki]

Dormio, did you read me? You'd have noticed that I said not to hammer twice. I still have things to say.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I skimmed.
I just got onto the computer and it takes me a while to read things.
ESL, yo.

[Mitsuki]

Validon

The main reason why I suspect him are associative reads with Kilga, but there's actually more than what I've already pointed out. Do you remember how Kilga kept suspecting him? This is the closest thing to a reply he's done, and it came after Kilga's unvote (a day later, and he had been posting meanwhile)

Okay, listen. I've been looking at everyone's posts and seeing whether or not they could be scummy. I'm doing the fucking best I can, and I'm not going to go "[INSERT NAME HERE] is the scum" when I have my fucking doubts. I have been getting a LOT of nullreads this game, and frankly it's really annoying when people are jumping on me for not being able to find a solid case. The only cases I had were against Serela and SB, but they both ended up town, so what when do I do? I ISO people who are leaning scum.

I don't think anyone realizes this yet: D1 sucks for me. I am NOT someone who just jumps on little tiny details and expect it to reveal scum. No, I look at what's there and try my best to suss out a case from what's there, but I know I will more often than not fail to do so.  I have had a VERY difficult time sussing out any cases this time around, and the ones I DID suss out ended up being wrong in both cases. It also doesn't help that I've been dragged away from the game by school and other IRL shit. So pardon me if my play is subpar. I can only do so much and be here for so long before my head starts hurting and I need to do other things.

I'm tired of looking through posts that don't seem scummy to me. I'm just going to vote for who I currently think is the scummiest, because CLEARLY if I don't then I'M the scum.

If this was a reply to Kilga, I don't see how he didn't say all of this before. I think this is more of a general reply to people who were beginning to suspect him by that time. Only PX voted him, but other players were expressing suspicion towards him just before this post.
(I know I'm not taking into account Polaris here, but he's my third suspect so everything here still applies)

Kilga didn't worry about Validon not replying to his case either, which is something that I'd expect him to do. (Can someone confirm/deny this? I might be relying too much on my intuition with this)

There's also a contradiction there, which I'm quoting again for convenience:

I'm tired of looking through posts that don't seem scummy to me. I'm just going to vote for who I currently think is the scummiest, because CLEARLY if I don't then I'M the scum.

If he didn't see scummy posts how could he think someone was scum? It's also convenient that it's Shadoweh, who was (and still is) the main wagon.

No, you should be trying to lynch scum if they make themselves obvious.

There's also this, which is just a minor thing but I still think it's relevant. Specifying ?if they make themselves obvious? feels like he's saying that he's scum and not being obvious, because that's someting only scum would find relevant enough to point out.
Actually no, that could be Validon not seeing anything scummy to point out. Except for the fact that he was voting Dark and giving reasoning, so I'm leaning towards the first interpretation.

Kilga seems to know what he's doing and he's one of the towniest people here, so...

Why would Validon think that Kilga knows what he's doing if Validon himself is town? He is supposed to be a strong suspect from Kilga's perspective, after all, so at least he'd know Kilga was wrong with this, one of Kilga's main points through the game. Add this to the fact that he plainly ignores Kilga's D2 case on him, as I've explained, and it all only makes sense if they're scumbuddies ? Otherwise Validon would be doing something about the scumreads on him and having different lines of thoughts, but since he relies on his scumbuddy he feels no threat at all coming from Kilga's words.

[Validon98]

Argh, I have to do homework and stuff and I'm feeling rushed and aaaaaaaaaaaaa. Okay, quick defense against Mitsuki's post on me:

If this was a reply to Kilga, I don't see how he didn't say all of this before.

It was a reply to Polaris, not Kilga. At the moment I had realized that my entire D1 play was really lacking, and I was getting angry at that moment that Polaris was yelling at me for giving ISOs (particularly the fact that I started with CF7, which I only did first because it would be the quickest to do and I wanted to see if there may have been something I missed... which I didn't). So it was mainly me yelling at Polaris, and it just ended up blowing up into general feelings.

If he didn't see scummy posts how could he think someone was scum? It's also convenient that it's Shadoweh, who was (and still is) the main wagon.

I said that didn't seem scummy. In other words, during D1 I wasn't really sure with my reads. It all seemed really null to me with some wagons leaning more towards scum than others. Polaris at that moment was yelling at me for not placing a vote, so I finally just did in response. I placed it on Shadoweh because out of all of the reads I had that leaned scum, my read on her was strongest.

There's also this, which is just a minor thing but I still think it's relevant. Specifying ?if they make themselves obvious? feels like he's saying that he's scum and not being obvious, because that's someting only scum would find relevant enough to point out.
Actually no, that could be Validon not seeing anything scummy to point out. Except for the fact that he was voting Dark and giving reasoning, so I'm leaning towards the first interpretation.

That was me arguing against Dark's "I lynch nulls" policy thing he talked about. What I was trying to say with that was "you should be lynching the people who seem scummiest." The way he phrased his thoughts made me think he was saying "LYNCH NULLREADS," and I was arguing against that. The "make themselves obvious" part should be read "if they look really scummy."

Why would Validon think that Kilga knows what he's doing if Validon himself is town? He is supposed to be a strong suspect from Kilga's perspective, after all, so at least he'd know Kilga was wrong with this, one of Kilga's main points through the game. Add this to the fact that he plainly ignores Kilga's D2 case on him, as I've explained, and it all only makes sense if they're scumbuddies ? Otherwise Validon would be doing something about the scumreads on him and having different lines of thoughts, but since he relies on his scumbuddy he feels no threat at all coming from Kilga's words.

I've been ignoring the scumreads from him because other people are more of an issue at the moment. In other words, I didn't feel like I needed to argue with Kilga about the scumread on me at that moment because I figured that it would be more important to talk about if I start becoming the main wagon. Granted, I probably should have addressed it, but I was more focused on looking at other people.
And the "Kilga knows what he is doing" part comes from the fact that I know Kilga is good at mafia and I was getting a townread on him based on his other cases. He supported them well and I didn't see anything really scummy from them.

In short, I don't get exactly why you're associating me with Kilga, because frankly I find him more towny than anyone else at the moment. >_>;
Also quick defense was more drawn out than I thought. Need to do homework and stuff, will be back later to follow-up if necessary.

[Sky_Paladin]

##unvote

So I can read the thread without the threat of hammer. 

[Sky_Paladin]

In light of Mitsuki's posts, I am re-ISOing Shadoweh.  I'd like it if Mitsuki could ISO Shadoweh, also.  I am posting again with my results in about thirty minutes, I think. 

[Shadoweh]

I've been ignoring the scumreads from him because other people are more of an issue at the moment. In other words, I didn't feel like I needed to argue with Kilga about the scumread on me at that moment because I figured that it would be more important to talk about if I start becoming the main wagon. Granted, I probably should have addressed it, but I was more focused on looking at other people.
And the "Kilga knows what he is doing" part comes from the fact that I know Kilga is good at mafia and I was getting a townread on him based on his other cases. He supported them well and I didn't see anything really scummy from them.

In short, I don't get exactly why you're associating me with Kilga, because frankly I find him more towny than anyone else at the moment. >_>;
Also quick defense was more drawn out than I thought. Need to do homework and stuff, will be back later to follow-up if necessary.

The finding him townie when everyone else is getting scum vibes from him is a good start. How did he support his cases well anyways? I think he's just putting more effort into his cases. Which well.. he kind of writes huge walls as scum too.

[Mitsuki]

I've been ignoring the scumreads from him because other people are more of an issue at the moment. In other words, I didn't feel like I needed to argue with Kilga about the scumread on me at that moment because I figured that it would be more important to talk about if I start becoming the main wagon. Granted, I probably should have addressed it, but I was more focused on looking at other people.

Why did you reply to Polaris one day later when you didn't feel the need to reply to him before?
Also, you were the main wagon back then, even if it was just the start of D2, so your reply is invalid. And by the way, not replying even if Kilga isn't your scumbuddy is scummy; scum wouldn't want to reply to avoid attracting attention, which seems to have worked perfectly on you.

I said that didn't seem scummy. In other words, during D1 I wasn't really sure with my reads. It all seemed really null to me with some wagons leaning more towards scum than others. Polaris at that moment was yelling at me for not placing a vote, so I finally just did in response. I placed it on Shadoweh because out of all of the reads I had that leaned scum, my read on her was strongest.

How can you have a scumread on someone whose posts don't seem scummy to you?


I'd try to write my case on Polaris but I'm too tired (it's late here) and I have a huge cold. Oh well, I guess it can wait.

Sky Paladin: Uuuuuuuuuuuugh, okay...
This ISO was really quick. I still see noting scummy, just things that could be interpreted as townie or scummy but that when I think about it I realise that those are still null and tell me nothing about her alignment.
In the unlikely event that someone wants to lynch Validon please tell me now, I won't be here for the deadline and I'll leave soon.

[Sky_Paladin]

Okay, Mitsuki.  Those are some pretty epic posts right there.  I've gone through and re-ISO'd Shadoweh.  A lot of people asked why I was voting for them, but I didn't post about it because I thought the case was clear and me posting more would just make it more confusing.  But you raised some good points so now I have to question my own reasoning, too.  I guess I'd like you to ISO Shadoweh to the same degree you have Kilga and Validon.  I know you said that you have a null read on Shadoweh, however you also said you didn't read in great detail (or something like that) so I feel like you suspected Kilg/Validon and just focused on them.  That's my suspicion.  That said, having a new player enter the field does have the big bonus of they are likely to pick up questionable details that everybody has just assumed is the truth. 

My position on Shadoweh started day 1 http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1038954.html#msg1038954.  (On a related note, could somebody please show me how to make it so I can hide the link behind a word like 'here'). 

And if I thought CF7 was worse, Shadoweh is just horrible.  They have also posted zero content posts, and largely made no effort to even defend themselves.  This is such a massive difference from their previous game.  It's a big red flag for me.

I feel like this trend continued.  Shadoweh didn't appear to be scum hunting.  At the time, I voted SB for the same general reason, although I tipped SB over Shadoweh because I felt SB's coaching to be malicious and harmful.  Unfortunately, it turned out to be genuine and supportive.  Oh well. 

Shadoweh then voted for CF7 http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1039083.html#msg1039083 for no specific reason other than to 'not vote for Serela'.  To be clear, it wasn't a scumhunt - it was lynch somebody who wasn't posting. 

I'm gonna throw down a vote down and see if people want to change their minds considering I don't want to vote any of the major wagons AS USUAL

. 

The reason I finally voted Shadoweh was in this post:  http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1039373.html#msg1039373

At that time, I voted Serela because of meta "better to lynch than no lynch on d1".  However I had picked SB because I thought at that time they were voting for CF7, not Darkie.  Kilga pointed out my mistake. 
So my argument should read:

"What he is doing is voting for CF7, at this stage a fairly useless vote. However, CF7 is not doing anything.
CF7 is one of my scum picks. Shadoweh is one of my scum picks. Why would scum vote for scum -> when there is no danger.
What's the danger in day1? For scum, it's 1- town lunches a scum, and 2, town lynches not-scum.
Scum want to make non contributing votes on day 1 that appear contributing.
The easiest way to do that is to vote for an afk - town may switch to afk CF7 and pop! Shadoweh will have helped lynch scum, therefore appearing town.

Why not help lynch Serela? Because scums want the lynch to fail today regardless if it's town or scum."

However, I didn't state that clearly in my post where I voted for Shadoweh.  I guess that's why people were confused about my reasoning.  I voted for Shadoweh because;
1:  I thought the vote on CF7 was a ploy to escape suspicion, and
2: They didn't actually do any scumhunting up until this point, and finally
3: I felt that she was playing in a significantly different style than to her previous game.  In particular, Shadoweh was posting a lot less, and not bossing people around.  Shadoweh did a lot of work in the previous game.  In this one she just appears to be coasting. 

I voted for Shadoweh TODAY because she was part of my day1 scumhunting picks and I wanted to see how the day panned out.  I had started to look at Dark and Validon because I thought, "What if it really was just as straightforward as this:  SB was killed because scum were worried he was too close."  Then Shadoweh had a pretty bad fumble (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1039972.html#msg1039972).  SB's death and the reason we knew it wasn't a vighit (he could vote) were key points of the discussion up until that point.  It should have been relevant!  How did Shadoweh miss it?  Then when Cheez8 pointed it out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1039983.html#msg1039983) Shadoweh was best friends for ever with Cheez8.  I feel like towny's would have been paying more attention to these details and not missed it in the first place, basically. 

Also in that same post, Shadoweh then votes for the afk slot - NekoNekoRex/CF7.  NNR then had this to say about me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1040326.html#msg1040326) and I was just incredulous that anybody could have been suspecting me over Shadoweh at this stage.  I thought the most obvious answer was that NNR was trying to save Shadoweh, probably because they were scumbuddies.  This was largely because NNR straight up focused on me without any consideration of Shadoweh.  That's the reason I asked Mitsuki to ISO Shadoweh also.  I want both sides of the argument considered.  But I don't consider Mitsuki as automatically scum because unlike NNR, she used good reasoning and showed a lot of effort and consideration went in to her post.  NNR just copy pasted things out of context and made stuff up.  So it looks bad for them, and by association, Shadoweh. 

At this point there was a solid d2 wagon going on Shadoweh and their only contribution was to say "Sky did you just accuse Neko, the slot I've been suggesting we lynch every day, of being my scum partner?" with no rebuttal except for a handwave 'people need to stop associating before players are flipped'.  How about an argument to defend yourself or even helping us narrow down other targets, if you aren't scum. 

Then finally there was this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15788.msg1040718.html#msg1040718) which sounds like giving up.  But where's the fight?  I didn't see...ANYTHING...from Shadoweh the whole time.  There's not a single scumhunting post or even an effort at defense.  I'm really shocked by it. 

And that catches us up with today.  Please have a look at these points, Mitsuki, and see if it changes your opinions at all. 

[Mitsuki]

... I'm very sorry, but I can't really make the effort to answer to all of that now. It's almost 1am, I have to wake up early tomorrow and I need to rest so that my cold gets better (TwT)
I'll try to make up for this D3.

[Shadoweh]

I don't think Mitsuki should bother because I'm obviously getting lynched here and opinions on the people still alive are more useful. Trying to understand me never works, I'm a renegade.

Your case is pretty amazing Sky P. I was not pushing for a no-lynch on Day 1. In case of emergency we will all push through lynches, so saying I was voting CF7 because I didn't want anyone to get lynched is wow. Maybe Neko suspects you over me because I'm not scum and he's known me long enough to watch me go through effort phase. I'm just not in the mood to fight the inevitable today. Do you think it's scummy for someone to not care if they're lynched? Scum want to survive you know.

[Sky_Paladin]

Shadoweh, I can also consider I am wrong. 

If you were a towny (and you did claim vanilla town, iirc), who are your scumpicks?  Throw me a bone here :/

[Shadoweh]

If I knew who the scum were I'd be making cases on them.
At the moment I'm alright with the Kilgamayan/Validon assumption. I would never lynch Polaris or Mitsuki, I'm not sure how I feel about the DNA/Cheez/Sky P triumverant of weird posting styles, and Dormio is nonexistant. I supose it could be NNR, but it's likely one of you three.

[Raikaria]

Votecount 2.9

Shadoweh (4): Validon98, Polaris, NekoNekoRex, Darkninjaabc
NekoNekoRex (1): SB
Sky_Paladin (1): Dormio
Dormio (1): Cheez8
Kilgamayan (2): Mitsuki, Shadoweh

Not Voting (2): Kilgamayan, Sky_Paladin

It's 6 to lynch and Just under 5 hours remaining.
(Countdown)

[Polaris]

Was too lazy to post yesterday and now I'm facing the repercussions with my GARGANTUAN WORD COUNT LOOMING OVER ME AAAH D:

but like mitsuki are you scum?

because like I seriously don't know how you can just waltz in with scumreads the two people generally accepted as town (kilga and me, sorry for being a pretentious) while simultaneously refusing to consider any of the existing wagons, and adamantly at that. your credibility is decreased because it seems like you haven't really looked at the game properly, which makes me wonder if you're even serious about these cases or if you just made them up because you're trying to look SO HIP and PRO TOWN by challenging a widely held belief.

^ basically my first impressions of mitsuki. not a fan of nitpicky quotestrippy cases either `_`

[Polaris]

By the way, Sky Paladin, what exactly was your reason for rereading Shadoweh again? (and making the huge post on Shadoweh)

[Validon98]

Okay, I'm going to be on and off for the next several hours because I'm going to have to cook dinner, do chores, finally do some RPing with a group of online buddies that I haven't been able to do in a while and I need to be there for, etc., but I will be here for the deadline. So if I don't say something for a while, don't worry, I'll address any questions you might have of me before the deadline, just don't expect immediate responses because this game doesn't take up all of my focus and energy.

@Sky_Paladin: *sheds tears at how comprehensive your case is*
That is as far as I can tell the entirety of why Shadoweh has a wagon on her right now, and pretty much EVERYONE on the wagon has used at least some of these reasons somewhere as their reasons for voting her. I honestly can't fathom why Mitsuki isn't looking at this, but her opinion is her opinion.

The finding him townie when everyone else is getting scum vibes from him is a good start. How did he support his cases well anyways? I think he's just putting more effort into his cases. Which well.. he kind of writes huge walls as scum too.

I'm... not sure how to respond to this, because the first sentence confuses me. Are you talking to me first of all, and second of all what do you mean by "a good start"?
As for the effort thing, well, that's mainly why I currently have a townread on him. I mean, I guess it could be more null, but I've just been seeing it more as town.

@Mitsuki:

Why did you reply to Polaris one day later when you didn't feel the need to reply to him before?
Also, you were the main wagon back then, even if it was just the start of D2, so your reply is invalid. And by the way, not replying even if Kilga isn't your scumbuddy is scummy; scum wouldn't want to reply to avoid attracting attention, which seems to have worked perfectly on you.

Because I was too busy with IRL and other stuff at the time and I wasn't as focused on the game, so I glanced over stuff at points and then tried to revisit it later when I had time, and I focused more on trying to find scum rather than defend myself, because I thought finding scum was a priority over my own defense. Again, I spend time doing other things than focus on this game, and during D1 I wasn't as invested in this game as I was with other things.
Now, of course, if Kilga wants to say anything about me now, go ahead, I'll respond this time because I actually am prioritizing defending myself unlike before, when I was more worried about scumhunting.

How can you have a scumread on someone whose posts don't seem scummy to you?

Okay, let me explain more about what I originally said. This is the sentence you find a problem with:

I'm tired of looking through posts that don't seem scummy to me.

This is what I meant by that: I was ISOing a few people. There were a lot of posts that didn't seem scummy when I was looking through them. I did not mean that every single one of those posts didn't seem scummy to me. If you looked at my actual ISOs, I pointed out things that I thought were either weird or seemed scummy. Of course I found some things that I thought implyed scum, but I was hesitant to vote based off of them alone. When Polaris yelled at me about just going ahead and voting, I finally did because I was angry that me not having yet decided to vote someone for sure was being taken as scummy, because apparently if you're not pushing someone, you're scum, and that really set me off because I was reading and I wasn't sure who I should push.

@Cut by like six posts: @Polaris: I know, right? I see you and Kilga both as town, and reading her post on Kilga just kind of made me go "wait what." It's mostly all using the idea that he alternated between pushing on me and not... which makes sense because he was pushing other wagons at the time. It's not like he abandoned the thought that I was scum or anything. Worse, she's using that as an associative read on me. I mean, what?

[Shadoweh]

Replacements tend to waltz in and have different opinions from the people in the game. Which is a good thing because they're not brainwashed. The only reason you're considered a town read imo is because you're the other BEST PAL and it was stupid of us to lynch one of you in the first place.

Also more then a few people have mentioned gut feelings of scum Kilga so you're wrong about that one.

[Shadoweh]

ASSOCIATIVE READS ARE THE WORST THINGS WHY WOULD ANYONE USE THEM GOD
BY THE WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM WITH NEKO, SERELA, AND PROBABLY SOMEONE ELSE I THINK IS SCUM TOO
IM TOWNIE OBVTOWN YEAH!!!!!!!!

Validon: You finding Kilga super townie is the part that makes you linked to him, yes. Why the hell are you prioritizing defending yourself, aren't you about to lynch a scumbag and get ~*~Super Cred~*~? What are you worried about? Kilga can put in effort as scum. If you can't tell me something you read him say that sounds townie there's something wrong with your assumptions.

@Cut by like six posts: @Polaris: I know, right? I see you and Kilga both as town, and reading her post on Kilga just kind of made me go "wait what." It's mostly all using the idea that he alternated between pushing on me and not... which makes sense because he was pushing other wagons at the time. It's not like he abandoned the thought that I was scum or anything. Worse, she's using that as an associative read on me. I mean, what?

OH MAN HOW DARE SHE NOT BE PART OF THE HIVE MIND
LET'S LYNCH THE WEIRDO BEFORE SHE BECOMES CONTAGIOUS
ONE OF US
ONE OF US

If you guys don't lynch Kilga and Validon together after today I will be crying tears of rage.