Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Akyu's Arcade => Genji's Battle Arena => Topic started by: Helepolis on March 15, 2011, 10:18:01 AM

Title: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 15, 2011, 10:18:01 AM
Old thread here: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6811.0.html



TOUHOU GENSOKYO: Defense of the Shrines
< incoming fancy banner or something here >

Touhou Gensokyo: Defense of the Shrines is a variation on the Defense of the Ancients game. This is a WarCraft 3 map made by Chinese people, so the map itself is in Chinese, simplified. It is extremely fun, though a little bit unbalanced. Just a little bit.

Touhou Wiki article: here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Defence_of_The_Shrines) (contains translated descriptions for the game, heroes and items)
Official DoTS forum Chinese: here (http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
Unofficial promo video by shrinemaiden: DotS promo video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iViVL5PtRt4&hd=1)

About our community
We got many different time zone players, but most of our players are from the EST and GTM time zones. We always try to spawn at least 4 vs 4 games, because they are the most fun. Generally we play the latest chinese version of the map. This might scare some people, but since the wiki is frequently updated , it shouldn't become an obstacle. The latest map is always updated in our IRC channel and we try to maintain the wiki as much as we can. If you are interested in playing a game of DoTS, feel free to drop in our IRC channel.

IRC channel
irc.ppirc.net:6667
#DotS-Meido
Webchat link (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=dots-meido)

How to play
To play public or with us, make sure you can join shrinemaiden battlenet. Read here  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8051.0.html)how to join. Logically you require Warcraft III and Frozen Throne installed along with patch 1.26. Without these, you cannot play.

Chinese font support for Warcraft III
- Download FONTCRAFT: http://rapidshare.com/files/69872447/FontCraft.rar

Instructions:
1) Extract all the files frmo FontCraft.rar
2) Boot the executable
3) Pick the truetype font from the browse
4) PICK THE SECOND OPTION not the first
5) Patch it!
6) Check whether the characters show up correctly ingame.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 15, 2011, 10:20:27 AM
Jerk Hele you're no fun :<

Support Koishi is just her getting a whole bunch of support items like Reitaisai and parasol.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 10:21:41 AM
As support Koishi, don't forget to whore Jinkela/Tea.
Gotta keep your teammates alive.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 15, 2011, 10:24:14 AM
Nonexistant attachment pics in the hosting guide btw.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 10:26:55 AM
Hey, is this new thread my fault?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 10:31:27 AM
Quote
<Helepolis> the rambo guide was funny
<Helepolis> it should be reposted Dormio

A QUICK GUIDE ON EFFECTIVE RAMBO BY DORMIO

This will just be a few pointers on how to rambo effectively, you need to learn by doing.

1. Don't pick a support.
This step is important. If you screw it up, you're destined to end up like Trance. (jk ilu Trance)

2. Ignore the minimap.
You don't have the time to give a fuck about what is happening elsewhere on the map WHEN YOU NEED YOUR FULL UNDIVIDED ON CHASING THOSE BITCHES THAT THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY FROM YOU. IS A TEAMMATE PINGING SOMETHING? IGNORE IT. YOU DO NOT GIVE A FUCK.

3. Do not communicate with teammates.
Silence is golden. Remember this rule, and remember it well. You need to concentrate on getting kills dammit. You can't waste those precious second(s) typing when you could be chasing those squishies.

4. Whore runes.
There are only 2 negative runes in the game, explosion/poison, compared to the 5 positive runes, regen/double damage/defence/invisibility/speed. The positive runes will save your life when you're diving into a 4v1 at the enemy tower.

5. Make sure your name is Hero999.
If you do not want to fail during your rambo attempt, this is the most important step. Disregarding this step will result in unavoidable failure.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 10:33:04 AM
5. Make sure your name is Hero999.
If you do not want to fail during your rambo attempt, this is the most important step. Disregarding this step will result in unavoidable failure.
Why?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 10:36:04 AM
Hero999 is one of the best players in our community.
Hero, Dular, and I like to rambo a lot.
Hero, unless I have godluck, has the most success with rambo'ing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 15, 2011, 10:36:40 AM
Hero999 rambo 4v1 and doesn't afraid of anything. Oh and he generally wins them :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 10:45:18 AM
Hero999 rambo 4v1 and doesn't afraid of anything. Oh and he generally wins them :V
He usually wins!? WOW
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on March 15, 2011, 10:48:23 AM
Hero999 rambo 4v1 and doesn't afraid of anything. Oh and he generally wins them :V

That's usually after he farms like 20 kills from ganking everyone, everywhere and jerks start derping against him.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 10:52:25 AM
I need more experience by battling against real people instead of cpu's
But I can't do that because of my bad internet connection.
It sucks  :(
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 10:55:22 AM
Yeah.
Playing against the CPU, especially the CPU on the non-AI map, doesn't really help you develop your skills.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 15, 2011, 10:56:12 AM
What support koishi? I just got Reitaisai and then just buying a bunch of green tea. Parasol is for people who are bad and cant last hit
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 11:02:42 AM
Yeah.
Playing against the CPU, especially the CPU on the non-AI map, doesn't really help you develop your skills.
Yup.
I always battle with the insane ones
But cpu's rarely use their good skills against me. They are pretty easy to beat. Except if it uses Alice. It can destroy a tower before I acquire my W skill. That is a lot of trouble
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 15, 2011, 11:09:02 AM
What support koishi? I just got Reitaisai and then just buying a bunch of green tea. Parasol is for people who are bad and cant last hit

WRONG.

Parasol is for:

A) Providing a damage and armor aura to help your teammates deal more damage and take more punishment
B) It makes you charismatic with the aura effect
C) Cheapskates because the item build-up is wonderful

Yup.
I always battle with the insane ones
But cpu's rarely use their good skills against me. They are pretty easy to beat. Except if it uses Alice. It can destroy a tower before I acquire my W skill. That is a lot of trouble

Wait, there's a difference?

Anyway, my Sanae guide is in the midst of writing. I will post it soon.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 11:18:05 AM
Wait, there's a difference?
The others manage to destroy a tower about when I was lv9 or 10.
I don't know what happened, but probably Alice just keep summoning her dolls so that she rarely gets attacked.
And destroyed the tower quickly.
That's why I vote Alice in the poll because she is overpowered.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 11:21:16 AM
...
You really shouldn't be judging based off AI.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 11:27:38 AM
Using Alice is hard though. You'll be wasting your time trying to assign different tasks to her dolls.
I guess cpu's has the advantage because they can do that quickly
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 11:31:32 AM
I'm not saying that a good Alice isn't scary, because Alice in the hands of a skilled player is a monster.
But the CPU is terrible at DotS.
Like, seriously, Tanaka and I used to have competitions on who could rake up the most kills against CPUs. (Tanaka won with almost 60 kills while I had 50, 40 minute game)



(http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx317/AeshmaEst/DotS%20Icons/BTN_byakuren-1.jpg) Byakuren Hijiri, - A guide by Dormio

Blah blah blah words go here later.

The Skills-

The Skill Order-

The Items-

The Skill Order, Continued-

Something-

How To Play-

Things To Watch Out For-



Dormio is writing, please wait warmly.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 11:49:31 AM
Utsuho Reiuji, - A guide by Dormio

Will write this once I finish Byakuren.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 15, 2011, 11:55:03 AM
Trance obv you've never seen support koishi, buying tea is much better and keeps ur other heros on the seige. while parasol provides a semi-decent aura which using jinkela can do the same thing and more. id rather seige longer then get an aura that doesnt stack. also tea heals everything even genji and using jinkela on him pwns
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 15, 2011, 12:00:34 PM
Trance obv you've never seen support koishi, buying tea is much better and keeps ur other heros on the seige. while parasol provides a semi-decent aura which using jinkela can do the same thing and more. id rather seige longer then get an aura that doesnt stack. also tea heals everything even genji and using jinkela on him pwns

You said Parasol was for people who don't know how to last hit and are bad.

I didn't say jack shit about it being bad for Support Koishi.

I was proving that Parasol is a useful item in general.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 15, 2011, 12:02:46 PM
Yea id rather buy 31green teas then buy parasol on anyone.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 15, 2011, 12:12:39 PM
Are you gonna keep informing us about the guides you wrote until you finish your guide of all the characters and then post all of them at once?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 15, 2011, 12:23:38 PM
Nice guide Trance.
I still like my wording for "You're Sanae, so sooner or later, you're going to die" more though.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 15, 2011, 05:24:25 PM
Hurr Yuugi guide when I get time to try more things type stuff and have people review it to make sure it isn't junk.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on March 15, 2011, 05:32:09 PM
Actually, if someone on the team is going to get a Frozen Frog, isn't it better to put it on a non-carry because it doesn't stack or require procs? All you need to do is tag someone with a ranged attack to get the full effect, and the stat boosts you get from it benefit squishies more. I would think a carry would want something that makes better use of their attack speed.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 15, 2011, 05:34:41 PM
That is the more economical idea of using the frost orb item. But it requires the team knowing who will get it and playing accordingly.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on March 15, 2011, 10:11:23 PM
Has anyone messed around with the kappa pistol yet? It looks neat, being so cheap and giving a nice armor bonus on top of that.

What kind of girls would you get it for?

(I'm just going to assume the phoenix wings are awesome)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 15, 2011, 10:19:11 PM
Yes phoenix wings is awesome.... also kappa pistol someone needs to test if it effects spell or not to see if its awesome. If it does, its awesome, if not not worth 1.1k unless you're one of those heros with bad attack animations like mino or yuyuko.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on March 15, 2011, 10:26:41 PM
Kappa pistol seems good on item-dependent carries like Flan or Sakuya who needs to farm alot for their build.
It's a bit of agi, and almost +5 armor, so it seems good for jungling. (gogo jungle flan)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 15, 2011, 11:11:19 PM
I would think a carry would want something that makes better use of their attack speed.

Carries also tend to be very squishy as well... So it's a toss-up
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on March 16, 2011, 03:00:21 AM
good guide hele btw i suggest for getting blue card for remi (more useful at mid game btw) because ramboing with ult+hax ms seems nice to me.....while yellow ones only slows one girl
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Prody on March 16, 2011, 06:43:21 AM
Am I the only one hyping over the Enoch item just because its El Shaddai?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 16, 2011, 06:50:57 AM
Yes. :V
Anyway, derpgame.

Hakurei
Stuffman (Yuuka)
Panda (Meiling)
Rizock (Sakuya)
DollS (Utsuho)

Moriya
Whitewish (Letty)
BrownBeta (Patchouli)
Murasaki (Kogasa)
Dormio (Shikieiki)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on March 16, 2011, 07:37:07 AM
Hmm, I think I'll write a serious guide for new people to the game, as I'm quite-ishsomewhatkindamaybenot new myself and new people need some general advice..I think..

                                                                               In other words, it's the don't make the same mistake as me guide.-By DollS

1. Get a easy hero to start with. Don't try for complicated ones like Alice or someone where you need good map awareness (Like someone squishy) etc.. I recommend choosing Tenshi as a beginner as she was recommended to me to play after I flopped badly with Alice and she's quite good and easy to play if I say so. Cirno was also recommended and definitely easy to play, so you can choose her as well.

2. Don't be afraid to ask for help when your in a bad situation. I still make this mistake sometimes, taking on heroes that I couldn't really handle.

3. Not sure if others will like it but lane with someone if your not sure you can handle them by yourself. You can survive better and won't feed your opponents much.

4. Listen to your teammates, if they say back, go back, even if you think you can kill one of your opponents. You may just kill them but that's not likely.

5. Run if the situation looks bad. These situation include: Your creeps are dead and the enemy creeps are coming. Your health is red and you can't heal and there's a enemy girl coming for you. All teammates died when you were all trying to push etc. There are more I think but I can't think of anything now.

6. Don't Rambo. No ramboing. Nope. Nadar.

And these are the advice for new players that I can think of right now. Now, these advice are recommended if your new but you can start being loose on some of them when you get a hang of the game but you should still listen to them even if you become the No.1 DotS player....I think.

So, tell my if guide helped you cause I'm not sure if this is good or not...




Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 16, 2011, 07:54:59 AM
That seems more like a tips/suggestions post than an actual guide, but I have to give it a lot of credit for some really solid advice.

I agree with it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 16, 2011, 10:22:31 AM
Am I the only one hyping over the Enoch item just because its El Shaddai?
We discovered later on it was Enoch but kept naming him Blonde_dude :V And we used to hype as well until they made it expensive as hell.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 16, 2011, 11:27:41 AM
Nice Alice guide! I've been having problems with controlling Alice. The hotkeys tip is really useful 'cause I usually clicked on a creep or other stuff instead of her dolls
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 16, 2011, 01:47:26 PM
Modified guide on Remilia as well as on the wiki to clarify the bug on the bats. The skill is simply bugged.

Quote from: #dots-meido
[14:39:58] <Helepolis> TranceHime
[14:39:59] <Helepolis> http://i54.tinypic.com/m9rclh.jpg
[14:40:04] <Helepolis> could you tl please what it says
[14:41:40] <TranceHime> Remilia splits into 7 bats which fly and attack. Bats are capable of attacking, and their power increases with each level. They can also Lifesteal if you took levels in it. After the duration, Remi takes the place of the bat with the absolute highest HP. Remi dies if all the bats die.
[14:42:14] <Helepolis> ok so tooltip confirms it as TranceHime says
[14:42:17] <Helepolis> basically it is a bug

=.=
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 16, 2011, 09:30:00 PM
Hour long 4v4 that involves stuns, Scythes, flowers, UFOs, HP stats and Butterflys

Hakurei
Cirno (rizock)
Yuugi (Rikter)
Yuyuko (Dular)
Loolicon (Tenshi)

Moriya
Momiji (BrownBeta)
Nue (WhiteWish)
Yuuka (Sodium)
Kisume (Hero999)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 16, 2011, 11:13:39 PM
When you think Hakurei was winning, shit becomes serious and the game turns. Then again few were spiking and lagging making it harder to play.

Hakurei Pesco (Satori), WhiteFish(Mokou), Rikter(Yugi), Stuffman(Reimu)

Moriya Dolls(Tenshi), Rizock(Komachi), BrownBeta(Sanae), Helepolis(Remilia)

Chat contains me shouting and typing now and then complaining. But eventually our team succeeded in playing correctly. I was amazed by the teamplay. In fact, I myself died 2x because I farmed bit too much like a rambo. orz. Also game contains girls with awesome builds. Tenshi with mods :V Komachi with Phoenix etc :V

[attach=1]
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on March 17, 2011, 12:36:42 AM
hurr why u guys posted all replays where i'm lose  :(
btw that mokou x tenshi bug happens to me in that replay lol
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 17, 2011, 01:05:54 AM
'cuz u sux fishdish. (jk)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: shadowbringer on March 17, 2011, 03:25:28 AM
general advice/thoughts/opinions/suggestions/etc:

early game:
- melee heroines which don't benefit from spending their mp on their enemies (for example, trying to lane as Tenshi, vs Minoriko) can alternatively buy two cakes for their regen, so you can stay in the lane for a longer time (if you play carefully enough) and avoiding losing exp from healing at the base (one of the cakes can either be turned into Bento/Reitaisai ticket later, or Scythe)
- you can start with bento if you feel you can harass your opponents (Tenshi feels better off with two cakes, though, if you start with Fissure and masochism passive) with your mp
- blue (movespeed up) cards are useful if you feel you're a squishy, gankable heroine, or if you want to be able to chase better for a low price (enemy heroines running towards their towers may not expect you to use one)
- if you're having difficulties to farm and lane exchange options aren't seemingly viable either, think about surviving for long enough for your team members to farm well enough without the other heroines on your lane feeding on you. You may die a couple times as a support heroine, but if your teammate manages to have more kills/levels/money than the person laning against you, you increase your team's chances in most cases
- sometimes purposefully not killing heroines early (around lvl 3, 4, somewhere) but effectively denying them exp from your damage potential threat is more effective. If they leave you no choice (regarding you denying them exp) and you can kill them.. check the minimap quickly for the other enemies :D
- when you're at the side lanes, you can buy tickets and the small/large hp/mp regen items (not consumables) -- cakes, provided that you're not against a nuker or against a dps or against a disabler+someone else, can make you stay in the lane for longer
- when you're at the mid lane, you can (with proper timing) bring the neutral creeps near the middle tower towards the middle tower (they don't stay at the middle tower, though). Like in DotA's scourge side, this earns you early exp and gold, and brings the enemy creep line towards your tower, which is good in early game since it keeps the laning opponent from trying to deny creeps, under the risk of a disable or being attacked by the tower if they attack your heroine (or if the tower's target dies and then the opponent's the nearest target). Speaking of bringing enemy creep lines nearer to your towers, you can try to block creeps while you go along with them to delay them (like in DotA, as well)
- if both you and your opponent are melee heroines (and neither of you are dual-laning), you can sometimes bait your opponent into hitting you if this will cause the allied creeps near him/her to aggro him and do more damage than the single attack you've taken
- watch out for heroines which are in the mid lane, since at times she has the mobility/disables/damage (which goes well if the one you're laning with is a disabler, for example) to try to assist the person at the nearest lane
- keep in mind how much damage the heroine laning against you can do, and also mind the extra safety hp you'll need if Tenshi's on the opponent team, or if you're laning against Komachi (over 50%) or Yugi (at least over 25% if she doesn't proc the horn; timing out her ult will still guarantee 25% damage, though)
- also keep in mind the opponent heroine's mp, if they can't combo and kill you, you can deny and last hit better
- heroines with escape mechanisms (blinks, movespeed, stuns, slows, etc) are safer to start learning how to play, though you still can die from ganks (being outdisabled, for example). For example, Alice, Reisen and Tewi are riskier to play in this aspect.
- finally, get used to spending money with Bus Tickets, not only can you switch lanes quickly for helping minimize damage on the towers there, but they can save you if you're caught far from your tower (against enemies who can't withstand tower damage well enough for killing you and getting out alive) if you try to use them while the opponent's disable is on cooldown, for example. (this also means that, if you and the opponent are in an inverse situation, you can wait for the opponent heroine to start teleporting and then use your disable to cancel it)

character specific advice:
- if you're using Tewi, it's very likely that someone on the opponent team will pick Tenshi for her harassment (fissure and ult), given Tewi's low hp. Have your team decide how to deal with this (by trying to babysit Tewi or by switching lanes on sight), or if Tewi is really worth picking in this scenario.
- same case with Kanako, where someone on the opponent team will likely try to pick Letty for outranging MoF and thus evening both team's siege potential (or likely shifting it towards Letty's side -- haven't seen Kanako's side trying to use Soy Sauce in this scenario, though)
- if you plan on using Cirno so that your ult disables your opponents' front line, keep in mind that Tenshi's passive rock will interrupt the chanelling
- Hina's ult is countered by Sanae's or Reimu's, and alternatively, Hina herself can be focused if she uses ult (so to minimize the amount of damage she reflects), but generally, if she's collecting damage done to creeps/summons/allies, especially through AoEs from your team, RUN.
- if you're using Rumia, the opponent team has the option to pick either Momiji or Wriggle since their anti-invisibility skills can make Rumia more disable-able (Momiji herself can reveal+shieldbash Rumia, for assisting or running away, until Rumia decides to switch lanes for easier heroines to kill, at least :p)

mid game:
- if you need to farm neutrals, you can try to farm neutrals which are near to the opponent's base for the sake of denying the opponent team; make sure that the opponents are visible on the minimap first, though, since being ganked can lead to a situation where not only you die, but some players trying to save you also do die by being outnumbered by the opposite team if they regroup first
- when enough players of the opponent team have died, your team has an opportunity to push. Don't try to inflict heavy damage to double towers, though, unless your team really can reach them with a good amount of hp/mp and has means of getting away alive (in some cases, teamfights at the towers don't occur, just the damage to towers before the defending team is regrouped)
- when enough players of the opponent team have died but your team's hp isn't enough to attempt a push, farm the lane or neutrals while pushing forward, you can even farm neutrals but try to stay near your teammates so that you can help them if the opponent team try to start a teamfight; leaving your team to be outnumbered is disadvantageous. Think of the exp and gold (equipments) the opponent heroines will gain faster, and the level gaps.
- start discussing with your teammates about who's getting which item (for example, if someone's getting Phoenix, you can try to get Parasol, or Reitaisai, or Moderators, or Myon, or ZUN glasses, or Inaba Stick if you have aspd, among other options)

character choices:
- think of how much disables you and the opponent team have (consider AoE disables such as stuns, slows, as well as single-target ones); having too much tankers on your team may mean they can't get in to the other team without taking severe damage, plus being outdisabled means it's safer for the opponent team to try to push, as well as saving themselves and punishing your teammembers for trying to attack them
- if the opponent team has strong magic damage potential, make use of healing skills and other support skills such as Nazrin's pendulum and magic-invincibility skills (Koakuma and Remilia are special cases, in which it's disadvantageous to try to get many people to try to attack them at once. Still, Sanae's ult, for example, can allow your team to fight without taking Koa's massive bouncing damage, provided that your team can kill someone before Sanae's ult ends)
- think of the opponent team's push potential (for example, heroines who can deal heavy damage against towers and heroines who can kill creeps faster). For example, Letty can blizzard creeps while Yuuka can ult and then melee towers while she casts sunflowers around herself. Rin can bring flaming zombies which both remove creeps and converts them into more flaming zombies which in turn deal damage to towers, Alice can rush towers, Kanako can defend towers, Hina can use her ult emergencially to help kill creeps while her teammates are arriving (or waiting for respawn). Reimu can duplex tanks being attacked by the towers, Nazrin can cast pendulum too.
- there are certain heroines which rely more on teamplay than others, and those using them should consider the teammates' character picks (examples that come to mind now are: Letty, Flandre and Alice. There are characters which are relatively safe to use due to defensive resources but don't have as much teamplay potential or their potential doesn't change much inside and outside teamfights, examples being imho Suika, Marisa and Kaguya)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on March 17, 2011, 10:28:08 AM
Quote
- melee heroines which don't benefit from spending their mp on their enemies (for example, trying to lane as Tenshi, vs Minoriko) can alternatively buy two cakes for their regen, so you can stay in the lane for a longer time (if you play carefully enough) and avoiding losing exp from healing at the base (one of the cakes can either be turned into Bento/Reitaisai ticket later, or Scythe)
Like I was discussing in IRC, unless you are positive you are going to rush scythe I don't get the point of a second cake; why not buy teas instead? It takes over three minutes for a cake to regen as much HP as one tea. If you're at critical HP with double cake you still need to go heal, with tea you don't.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 17, 2011, 11:43:37 AM
Green tea is risking. It can get dispelled if you get hit by anything, wasting 100 points. You cannot wander among the creeps to risk getting hit. This is why double cake + bra is much more beneficial on the longer term. I would get lover card for emergency cases and keep sending your yukkuri forth and back for additional healing. Leaving the lane is something you should not be doing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 17, 2011, 12:23:40 PM
I warned you about that team composition bro.

Hakurei
TranceHime (Minoriko)
Dormio (Tenshi)
Infinity (Komachi)
Rikter (Utsuho)

Moriya
WhiteWish (Hina)
DollS (Shikieiki)
Reverie (Shizuha)
Necrodesu (Flandre)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 17, 2011, 12:26:13 PM
Next time I am literally going to bark out orders on which heroes people should use.

Seriously. :fail:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 17, 2011, 02:48:38 PM
I kinda felt like trying some carry or something that game but that would have been a bad idea due to lag and lol me playing a carry.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 18, 2011, 11:48:50 AM
Spiders take over the world, and then some.
Also, Hakurei jerks Kuriboh by going on TeamSpeak and not typing at all.

Hakurei
TranceHime (Meiling)
Dormio (Mokou)
Amraphenson (Yamame)
Kuribohlv9 (Suwako)

Moriya
ApharmdB (Reisen)
Infinity (Wriggle)
DollS (Utsuho)
Reverie (Nue)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Reverie on March 18, 2011, 12:54:05 PM
Spiders take over the world, and then some.
Also, Hakurei jerks Kuriboh by going on TeamSpeak and not typing at all.

Hakurei
TranceHime (Meiling)
Dormio (Mokou)
Amraphenson (Yamame)
Kuribohlv9 (Suwako)

Moriya
ApharmdB (Reisen)
Infinity (Wriggle)
DollS (Utsuho)
Reverie (Nue)

that was a depressing game.its as if your team was telling us to piss off
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on March 18, 2011, 01:46:19 PM
Well that's what happens when one team has TS and the other doesn't :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on March 18, 2011, 02:27:33 PM
The targeting on the Spiderman ult is really awkward. I'd like it to attack enemies it latches onto rather than targeting something else. Other than that, I think this is a nice guide.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Reverie on March 18, 2011, 06:27:52 PM
dular 1hp escape

hakurei
dular (okuu)
amraphenson (yamame)
tapsa (mystia)
reverie (cirno)

moriya
sodium (suika)
magical_loolicon(nue)
brownbeta(patchy)
rikter(shizuha)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on March 18, 2011, 10:39:45 PM
That was my most glorious moment in Dots to date.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 19, 2011, 01:01:26 AM
Quote
Sanae is a cocky goddess
lol i see what you did there

Quote
I am sure there will be plenty of disagreements like "Go full kebabs only" etc. But yea, opinions.
who ever took that srsly should jump off a cliff... a really high cliff

Quote
. I would either get four kebabs then built additional items and sell kebabs
better to just consume them, unless you cant farm for crap. swr and such should get you enough money for anything, especially with the KS
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: shadowbringer on March 19, 2011, 01:39:07 AM
opinions:
- nice guide, though I prefer to use Tenshi as a "tank who has two disables" and occasionally can harass with fissure :p
- I usually play her counting on regen item for her masochism skill (two cakes give the same regen one bun gives, and are cheaper and also lead to her farming well enough for bun which means you're closer to Reitaisai if your team doesn't have one or needs one but is having problems getting money/not getting killed before finishing it), don't like to pick keystone early because in most cases it's less useful (low str at beginning and how enemy heroines aren't as easily harassed by it, at least not more than they can harass you too) -- I'd say more situational
- haven't tried bra+cake yet, maybe this will also lead to bra+two cakes if I'm using Tenshi on a side lane against someone who doesn't deal a lot of damage in a short time
- Tenshi has a situational combination which hardly kills people but it's good to know: if you don't have the MP for fissure+ult, you can melee your laning opponent as if you were just meaning to harass her to deny last hits/denies, then stun her with fissure then TP to fountain, refill MP and then ult before she has the time to realize your goal. Ult is useful if some of your teammates have been killed and thus giving the opponent team an opportunity to push your towers. Just lowering their health a bit can spare your towers from being damaged too much, plus ults don't take too much time to cast again imho; another situation where ult can be used, is right after one of your teammates have been killed; you can do this unless you really want to spend it on the laning opponent.. (it's not like not getting kills is harmful to your team, if you can also send some enemy heroines in other lanes to heal at the fountain)
- Scythe is good but I usually skip it (for Myon/Reitaisai/Phoenix) unless the team has someone else to tank towers (or some sort of support skill for that purpose)
- gonna try parasol and/or mask for tank supportness someday :p
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Hero999 on March 19, 2011, 02:11:14 AM
who ever took that srsly should jump off a cliff... a really high cliff
better to just consume them, unless you cant farm for crap. swr and such should get you enough money for anything, especially with the KS

going full kebobs for awhile works pretty well early game, you just gotta get better items afterwards... since kebobs are mostly meant to help you farm better or use empty spaces.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 19, 2011, 02:11:41 AM
Troll game is troll.

Hakurei
PX (Kisume)
DollS (Shikieiki)
Sodium (Kaguya)
Ace-Royale (Flandre)
Dular (Yukkuri)

Moriya
Rizock (Eirin)
Dormio (Koakuma)
Infinity (Komachi)
Rikter (Nue)
Hero999 (Yukkuri)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 19, 2011, 02:13:49 AM
Game features intense 5v5 action along with other highlights.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 19, 2011, 02:15:01 AM
Like the best Kaguya build ever.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on March 19, 2011, 02:18:05 AM
We need to give the yukkuris concordias next time.  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on March 19, 2011, 02:26:27 AM
My army of Yukkuris shall rule the world! :V

But yeah, that was a pretty good game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 19, 2011, 03:37:54 AM
Hakurei
TranceHime (Cirno)
Dormio (Sakuya)
Dular (Nitori)
Kuribohlv9 (Suwako)

Moriya
Hero999 (Nue)
Rizock (Suika)
DollS (Yuugi)
Sodium (Marisa)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on March 19, 2011, 07:20:48 AM
going full kebobs for awhile works pretty well early game, you just gotta get better items afterwards... since kebobs are mostly meant to help you farm better or use empty spaces.
yeah i also suggest for 4 mushrooms+1 yukkuri+1 sdm tea as starting items for that.works well for tenshi and we can eat those kebabs if we needs a freeslot to get her core and luxuries
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 19, 2011, 05:00:14 PM
You know, yukkuris should never be considered as part of essential starting items. Why? What are YOU going to use them for? It's a courier, but not everyone actually makes use of that function or they simply don't have the micro controlling skills. It's a very technical difference when you include something like that in the guide because the overall idea for playing a particular hero well does not actually require you to have a courier.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on March 19, 2011, 09:01:32 PM
Someone once told me "Just buy a yukkuri dammit, it'll help!" and I said "FINE!"

Then I bought a yukkuri and it sat there through the game.  Yukkuri's are optional and when teamed up with (me as)Yukari, sure to cause some rage when they are all teleported.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 20, 2011, 12:39:10 AM
Hour long 4v4 that starts with Dular slaughtering Hakurei. Then suddenly headcrabs hit level 16. Also includes some troll procs against scum PX.

Hakurei
Ace-Royal: Byakuren
Headcrabs: Yuyuko
Rikter: Yuugi
Shadowbringer: Ran

Moriya
Magical_Loolicon: Mokou
DollS: Hina
Dular: Utsuho
PX: Murasa
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 20, 2011, 12:45:11 AM
If yukkuris could be shared properly, then you only need to buy one.

But then, they are not shared properly. So w/e.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on March 21, 2011, 03:25:01 PM
About the Mokou guide, I don't have much experience with her, having played all of 1 game as her and sucked since I still don't know exactly how much hp her dive takes away from her (calc says it ought to be 625, but the question is whether this is reduced by hero mag res...) :x But I think diving in to a fight first then activating your ultimate works better if you have some sort of disable from your team or you have insane luck with the basher procs. Otherwise, the cooldown on the dive is long enough that your target can simply run away and wait out your ult. Sure, she has something like 480 ms with sukima and ult on, but you're still vulnerable to stuns yourself, allowing your target to gain distance. Also, you can dive up/down cliffs when running away or chasing people. Marisa can do this too. And if you want to cross the river up north, but the boat's not around, just dive as near as possible to the opposite bank, then egg, and you'll appear there. </useless tips>

Just for fun, a replay from a couple of days ago... highlights include luckyass gambles by Shizuha in more than one 1v1 duel at the bottom lane winning the fight by 1 hit's worth of health, "How to Derp so Hard" by Shizuha and Meiling, a.k.a. dying with Hourai Elixirs unused, and Free TPs by Koishi, a.k.a. come near me in sub-modo for free and easy ride back to fountain. Also, it takes a team of disables just to counter Koishi later on.

Hakurei
Loolicon (Aya)
Rikter (Reimu)
Reverie (Nue)
Amra (Koishi)

Moriya
Sodium (Meiling)
Mikudesudesu (Eirin)
WhiteWish (Suwako)
ApharmdB (Shizuha)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on March 21, 2011, 05:20:49 PM
lol that replay.....btw mokou's selfdamage from D can be reduced by zun's glasses
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 21, 2011, 06:37:47 PM
Old dive intended that you take the damage advertised as the *extra* that you took was cancelled by your mag res. New dive costs HP percentage, dunno the figures.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 21, 2011, 11:06:31 PM
Koishi is easy to counter with disables, yeah

Problem: Not everyone likes using heroes with disables, so it's frustrating.. :fail:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 22, 2011, 06:31:51 AM
Would  3-steps-knockout count as a disable :V As the girl cannot move for 3-5 seconds :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 22, 2011, 06:33:13 AM
I count it as a disable.
Not sure about what others think though.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on March 22, 2011, 06:41:31 AM
60-ish second disable, more like :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 22, 2011, 06:43:14 AM
It's a soft disable
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on March 22, 2011, 08:16:22 AM
I think that counts as disables
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 22, 2011, 09:58:15 AM
It's a soft disable, that is to say - the target can still act and move, but they are penalized in doing so or are penalized during the duration for it. It just so happens in Yuugi's SS case, that penalty is death :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on March 22, 2011, 10:17:31 AM
It's a soft disable, that is to say - the target can still act and move, but they are penalized in doing so or are penalized during the duration for it. It just so happens in Yuugi's SS case, that penalty is death :getdown:

Psuedo disable :V Doesn't fully disable them but has the effect of forcing them to be disabled to an extent.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 22, 2011, 02:32:15 PM
Death is a pretty nice disable and the one that works the best consistently.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 22, 2011, 02:36:31 PM
Death is a pretty nice disable and the one that works the best consistently.

Except it doesn't work consistently when you need it to work the most ~~
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 24, 2011, 08:54:02 PM
Theme pick: Girls with  ha-hi-hu-he-ho in their names.

Hakurei: Helepolis(Kaguya), Dular(Utsuho), Stuffman(Meiling,host), Loolicon(Tenshi)

Moriya: Hero999(Yugi), Pesco(Hina), Rizock(Nue), Whitewish(Shizuha)

Hakurei won. Yea I farmed Sukima, 3D, Ghgm, HJbug. 3D on Kaguya is extremely painful and even more jerk with Utsuho passive. Oh yea, Dular killed me TWICE in this game by jerk Utusho radiation. Goddamn it =[
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Gunbazca on March 26, 2011, 03:46:36 PM
Any idea where to get the latest English version for this, guys?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 26, 2011, 04:42:13 PM
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Defence_of_The_Shrines

right here at the bottom
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
The latest english one is pretty old though.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2011, 10:19:52 PM
FLYING SPIDERS.
Also, Brodium gets jerked around a lot and Rikter buys TWO BENTOS.

Hakurei
Dormio (Mokou)
Rikter (Utsuho)
Magna (Yamame)
Headcrabs (Meiling)

Moriya
Sodium (Mystia)
kactaplb (Tenshi)
Loolicon (Keine)
Pesco (Eirin)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 27, 2011, 01:59:35 AM
So many derp.
Also, lolYuugi.

Hakurei
Panda (Kisume)
Dormio (Utsuho)
Shadowbringer (Yamame)
TranceHime (Meiling)

Moriya
BrownBeta (Patchouli)
DollS (Yuugi)
Hero999 (Kogasa)
Eronar (Remilia)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 27, 2011, 03:33:12 AM
:colonveeplusalpha:

I refuse to play DotS now.

I knew it was a bad idea to join the game. God, I'm a failure...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 27, 2011, 09:35:28 AM
Helepolis raging.

Hakurei
Helepolis (Eirin)
Pesco (Shikieiki)
kactaplb (Tenshi)
Dormio (Mokou)

Moriya
Amraphenson (Sanae)
Infinity (Kogasa)
Tapsa (Yamame)
DollS (Yuugi)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on March 27, 2011, 09:49:55 AM
Epic support~
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 27, 2011, 11:24:28 AM
Nice ending, bro.
This was a pretty tight game until some bad pushing decisions were made.
Also, contains a lot of RAEG in the Hakurei chat.

Hakurei
Helepolis (Byakuren)
Dormio (Hina)
DollS (Letty)
Tapsa (Suika)

Moriya
Reverie (Shizuha)
Amraphenson (Sakuya)
AparmdB (Utsuho)
Pesco (Eirin)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 27, 2011, 04:03:53 PM
Also, contains a lot of RAEG in the Hakurei chat.
Out of all goddamn targets, Suika tosses me.

[attach=2]
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Tapsa on March 27, 2011, 04:44:24 PM
And there was this moment when I was going to toss low hp shiz further into our side but you just had to run into me... ah well, she died.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 28, 2011, 02:00:57 PM
I honestly don't know why I still play this freaking game anymore. All it's done to me is made me into a raging pile of bitchfits and I honestly hate it. I can no longer enjoy this game as I once did back when it was still relatively new in the community. At this point, I can no longer consider DotS as a game I can play for fun now. Too much rage inducing bullshit and not enough is being done to tone down the mass power-creep that's been going on as new developments have been introduced. I admire the devs in a sense that they managed to make a really graphically beautiful map using WC3's engine, but I don't think that's enough to convince me that DotS is a game I should spend my free time playing if all it's going to do is make me feel like a pile of shit. ::)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: shadowbringer on March 29, 2011, 01:00:30 AM
I still have a lot of things to try on this map, mainly regarding teamplay potential (provided that the players from both teams select characters and items meant for team battles/pushes/harasses/etc), this is an exercise (which is where I get fun from) that gets me motivated to play (lots of setups and counters to be thought of). Also, progress is noticeable, if you for example learn how a defeat could've been avoided (example: Aya vs. a team without disables).

This said, I think that more (non-useless, of course) options would be nice, for adding depth to the game. There are quite a lot of options in DotA (maim, lifesteal, helm of dominator for neutral creeps, Necronomicon, refresher orb, blade mail, backstabs, team setup potential, etc.) which aren't as common in DotS.. I'll wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 29, 2011, 05:50:42 AM
You should tell us that you want to run testing games. We still get to play after all, so there should be no problem taking it easy like that.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 29, 2011, 05:54:06 AM
Quote
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> what the fuck
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> is with you people
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> and complaining
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> can you guys
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> not
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> bitch
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> and moan
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> and bitch some more
<Fujiyama_VolKeine> and actually play the game?
I mean come on.
Can't you even take it easy in AR HJ?
(This isn't directed at you Trance, srs games are srs but this was a fucking HJ game, really DollS?)

DollS spent the entire early game whining about getting Meiling in HJ, then proceeded to hug enemy towers for the entire game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 29, 2011, 06:43:02 AM
If postgame rage doesn't disappear before playing the next game, kthnxbai.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 29, 2011, 07:18:29 AM
The only thing I rage about is how everybody else bitching. (And Koishi/Wriggle/Rumia but that's another story)
Because that HJ (read: HJ) game was DollS just bitching so much.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on March 29, 2011, 08:35:23 AM
Hey, I didn't witch that much. :(
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 29, 2011, 09:25:55 AM
I mean come on.
Can't you even take it easy in AR HJ?

It's precisely of people like you that drive me away from playing DotS. I cannot play well in an environment full of unnecessary, unadulterated bullshit and NOT whine and moan about it. I want to play my best and show that I am capable of doing as such, I don't need bullshit like over-extending Yuugi ult getting in the way of my enjoyment, as such it would be easier for me not to play. It's much easier for me to have fun in game like HJ because everything was intentionally made to be hilariously broken and overpowered, but in vanilla DotS the devs seriously call what they do with the heroes "balance?" No, that is NOT balance. You might as well make every game HJDotS because that's way more amusing than vanilla DotS.

I know you weren't really targeting me in particular, but it still pains me to see people react so insensitively to this sort of mentality from others.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 29, 2011, 09:31:27 AM
I want to play my best and show that I am capable of doing as such
There was a time when I used to think like that.
Real life (parents) beat it out of me.

Also, I was saying that in regards to the HJ DotS game that we had just had.
I know full well that vanilla DotS is taken seriously (though devs use the ZUN method of balancing their map), so I wasn't saying anything about that.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on March 29, 2011, 09:37:50 AM
TIME TO MOVE ON FROM DOTS ON MY PART.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 29, 2011, 10:16:39 AM
Needs more NotD in here. When's Infinity gonna write up a guide for us?

And cut out the passive aggressive shit.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on March 29, 2011, 10:24:20 AM
Needs more NotD in here. When's Infinity gonna write up a guide for us?

And cut out the passive aggressive shit.

Wat.

back is much more experienced at NotD than I am lol. Get him to write a full guide.

I can only give some small pieces of advice :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on March 29, 2011, 07:46:10 PM
(though devs use the ZUN method of balancing their map)
this
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 29, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
Quote
[22:12:48] <DrRawr> someone count the days for me
[22:12:49] <Sodium> @choose 1minute or 1hour or 1day or 1month or never
[22:12:50] <+Keine> Sodium: I choose...never! ^_^V
[22:12:55] <Sodium> Keine has spoken
[22:12:58] <Sodium> Rawr will never play again
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 29, 2011, 09:30:27 PM
It's precisely of people like you that drive me away from playing DotS. I cannot play well in an environment full of unnecessary, unadulterated bullshit and NOT whine and moan about it. I want to play my best and show that I am capable of doing as such,
Serious question: Makes me wonder, why would you want that when our games are not some contest/tournament or large communities for famous names. Why would you want to "show" you are a skilled player when we (our community) already knows you are one.



Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 29, 2011, 11:08:18 PM
Serious question: Makes me wonder, why would you want that when our games are not some contest/tournament or large communities for famous names. Why would you want to "show" you are a skilled player when we (our community) already knows you are one.

Not really conducive to the conclusion if all I've been doing in every single game is fail horribly/do decent but lose anyway. :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on March 30, 2011, 12:51:12 AM
Serious question: Makes me wonder, why would you want that when our games are not some contest/tournament or large communities for famous names. Why would you want to "show" you are a skilled player when we (our community) already knows you are one.

While winning is nice, what's more important is THAT THEY LOST!!


But seriously though, although I certainly do my fair share of herping, and I facepalm whenever other people derp hard, and sometimes mistakes happen(Apparently Reimu's shield prevents Komachi's ult and I didn't know that), but isn't dots in general good fun?  Sometimes it's like I went to a little league game to watch my kid play and all the other parents are out for blood, and building human pyramids when they win or rioting when they lose.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: shadowbringer on March 30, 2011, 03:00:26 AM
@Trance:
just..

- if your team has equal or better matchup advantage
---- be bothered if you or your team missed a chance to win (or even if you win but could've avoided some critical mistakes), don't be bothered if you, and everyone else (from both teams) have pushed themselves well enough :p
- else (matchup disadvantage)
---- stop caring :D (this may be difficult if you don't foresee the teams' potentials -- escape options, effectiveness of front line characters, pushing ability, stuns/disables/heals for controlling the flow of teamfights, harass at early game, etc.)

maybe you didn't have enough chances to employ your playstyle effectively (surely, people around here are getting familiarised with who thinks with portals the allies or not). Maybe an important element (imho) is being overlooked, which is.. team character selection (sometimes I screw myself because the character I meant to pick was meant to support someone else from my team, but then said person -- not exactly you the last time we played, but other examples which were more synergic imho -- switches the character, making it hard for me to try to foresee how to make our gameplay safer), and trying to create a team strategy and/or frustrate the opponent team's.

I know you've said once that if you had to think about character selection, you'd rather play DotA instead, but for me, thinking about strategies and making lots of decisions through the game is what makes this (and other games) fun for me. It may be that DotA is more flexible, regarding individual characters' matchups (less cases of a character having too much advantage/disadvantage against another), favoring both team strategy and individual/small team battles.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 30, 2011, 06:52:51 AM
Not really conducive to the conclusion if all I've been doing in every single game is fail horribly/do decent but lose anyway. :getdown:
Well as you indicated (and what I can conclude), you seem to hate yourself more for this, than others hating you for playing bad.

Why should you be hating yourself for doing bad when this isn't like work in real life. There is no reason to take performance in a game this serious. And I rage now and then as well, or headdesk for doing bad performance. But that is momentarily discomfort for myself or perhaps my surrounding.

Gaming is like being a fan of a sport (soccer, baseball etc etc). Rage happens. Nothing new. Nothing special. As long as you don't turn it into an obsession. Then it becomes bad, but then people will quickly start pointing that out.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 30, 2011, 09:36:17 AM
I know you've said once that if you had to think about character selection, you'd rather play DotA instead, but for me, thinking about strategies and making lots of decisions through the game is what makes this (and other games) fun for me. It may be that DotA is more flexible, regarding individual characters' matchups (less cases of a character having too much advantage/disadvantage against another), favoring both team strategy and individual/small team battles.

I can't credit DotS for that sort of thing if all it encourages is PICK GOOD CARRY HERO FARM/GANK GOOD STEAMROLL EVERYONE

SUPPORT? JUST USE THEM FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN HOPE SOMEBODY DOES THE GRUNT WORK FOR YOU INSTEAD

it's disgusting and horrible and I find the mere concept of the current metagame repulsive upon thinking about it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on March 30, 2011, 09:38:46 AM
I can't credit DotS for that sort of thing if all it encourages is PICK GOOD CARRY HERO FARM/GANK GOOD STEAMROLL EVERYONE

SUPPORT? JUST USE THEM FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN HOPE SOMEBODY DOES THE GRUNT WORK FOR YOU INSTEAD

it's disgusting and horrible and I find the mere concept of the current metagame repulsive upon thinking about it.
Well it is nothing new. We are all aware of how Dots is currently. We can't do anything than just (yes it sounds stupid) to deal with it. I don't see how that is worth to rage over and over because until the devs (lol) make changes, it will remain the same.

So if you wish to simply not play due to this, that is fine. Just saying it isn't worth raging about continuously. (Isn't quite good for ya health either)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 30, 2011, 09:40:41 AM
Well it is nothing new. We are all aware of how Dots is currently. We can't do anything than just (yes it sounds stupid) to deal with it. I don't see how that is worth to rage over and over because until the devs (lol) make changes, it will remain the same.

So if you wish to simply not play due to this, that is fine. Just saying it isn't worth raging about continuously. (Isn't quite good for ya health either)

Consider me done with this game, then.

I highly doubt "balance" will ever touch this game from what I've heard about the supposed new entries (Shou/Lunasa/Parsee).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 30, 2011, 09:44:22 AM
Lunasa sounds like Koishi v2. :/
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 30, 2011, 01:14:47 PM
Lunasa sounds like Koishi v2. :/

As much as introducing new girls to the game is a hypeworthy activity, the current fact of the matter is almost all the girls are at some point or to some degree a huge amount of bullshit and that's just not something a game of this nature should have, it should be more skill-based with regards to map awareness, teamwork, unit control, map control, etc. versus passive skill-based as in farming, last hitting, denying, etc. The ideas themselves seem novel, but the execution just promotes more and more farm and that's just not something that's conducive to the team game I originally envisioned the god-damn freaking genre to have as a whole. It's just really something I can't stand, and forgive me if I've been bitching on this for a while now, but I honestly can't stand it and I've been keeping this in for the past few months or so.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Reverie on March 30, 2011, 01:45:42 PM
balance in imbalance   :V
edit:
no. i dont want to argue.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on March 30, 2011, 08:08:21 PM
Well trance i still hope you come by the channel for non-related dots fun, or if when ever you're in the mood for dots :3  :toot:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on March 30, 2011, 10:53:32 PM
Murasa does some good ol' fashioned stomping, even to late game Aya, also intly antics.

Hakurei
Whitewish(Suwako)
Murasa(Dular)
DollS(Hina)
Herasy(Medicine)

Moriya
kactaplb(Meiling)
hero999(Aya)
Pesco(Eirin)
Sodium(Satori)


Disclaimer: Regardless of what I say, mean, smell, or what other people say, everything I say and/or type should be taken with a bit of salt, satire, or great hilarity at other peoples expense.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 30, 2011, 11:11:10 PM
Well trance i still hope you come by the channel for non-related dots fun, or if when ever you're in the mood for dots :3  :toot:

i doubt i'll ever play DotS again to be honest but thanks i guess.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: kactaplb on March 31, 2011, 06:13:37 AM
hoho. so there was a thread.

i doubt i'll ever play DotS again to be honest but thanks i guess.

Sad to read hear it- it was your post/guide that led me to dots. And am I enjoying it. I certainly hope I don't end up so jaded.

Some fresh perspective, but for me, it's the opposite. Games like dota and lol have become so focused, that the matchups have become stale. Sure, they might be more fair, competitive and balanced,  but the process closes off choices. True balance means everything is the same-which is boring. But really, how fun is it to play your favorite girl in a rofllolspam ability fest? I should film myself playing this, really I can't stop laughing, even as murasa/DORMIO anchors me to my death. yamame spider SPAM. rin zombies on fire. yukari gap. hj is even better-minoriko potato lolheal. What other game can boast even a percentage of this? Don't mix things. Dota is dota. Dots is dots. Besides, is dots the type of game you want to be competitive at? Thought people flocked to the land of gensokyo for their waifus, not ego. dots. op. unfair. always fun if you make it so. wouldn't have it any other way.

anyways, give it a second...or third/fourth. chance~  Remember what made you like dots in the first place.

Plus, I'll feed you plenty if that isn't more incentive.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 31, 2011, 06:58:28 AM
You haven't fed me at all. Jerk :ohdear:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on March 31, 2011, 09:32:44 AM
Some fresh perspective, but for me, it's the opposite. Games like dota and lol have become so focused, that the matchups have become stale. Sure, they might be more fair, competitive and balanced,  but the process closes off choices.

I disagree.

Have something called "imagination." It'll get you places.

Not-so-subtle ad hominem aside, I can see where you're coming from. DotS does offer something "new" to the table. I'll respect that much. What I can't respect is that the game itself promotes a playstyle that is not conducive to why I found DotA/LoL/etc. enjoyable in the very first place. I started playing DotA because it was an addictive team game that required more skill than just being able to kill creeps, farm and destroy your opponent in that way. Sure, you can argue that DotS was intentionally made to be the way it is, but that's why I'd just rather play HJ DotS instead because that's actually hilarious. There is a clear difference between trying to be serious with a map and completely FAIL at it than to just throw it out all at once like what the HJ ver. devs did.

Quote
Don't mix things. Dota is dota. Dots is dots

Kind of hard not to do that when I've been playing DotA for over 6 years...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on March 31, 2011, 05:09:27 PM
Eh... I'm going to be taking a break from gaming for a while, including DotS / IRC. School-related stuff and such, and it seems like I've been wasting too much time on the computer lately :/. It'll at least be a month before I come on again, so yeah~

Whatever, hopefully DotS will be a bit more balanced by the time I'm back :)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on March 31, 2011, 06:57:16 PM
Merlin the anti-carry tank :V

[attach=1]

Innate - Every 4 attacks will give her a bonus on the next attack it seems.
D - nuke with some small aggro enabler kind of thing.
F - Buffs damage and ms, debuffs mag res and armour. Castable on anyone
R - Passive HP regen boost based on HP remaining I think.
W - Damage return if it's damage from a target girl. Return percentage and duration increases per level.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on March 31, 2011, 07:00:07 PM
Hatate seems lame. Pics of skills included in attatchments.

D - BLINK
F - AoE Bunbun but doesn't seem to give pure damage
R - Attack speed buff of some sort
W - No clue what this does some buff?
C - Gained with ult Goes invincible then teleports back to fountain in 3 seconds.

Has something setting her MS to a value. I was stuck at 360 most of the game. Also her Cellphone kills things,
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on March 31, 2011, 07:07:05 PM
Just saying, Merlin's max hp increases by 1 every time she kills something. It's part of her passive, besides the added dmg every 4 hits. Start last-hitting....
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 31, 2011, 09:52:41 PM
0.959c -> 0.9601a (FFFFFFFFFFF TROLLAN)

-A SHITLOAD OF BUG FIXES THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT
-HP gained with STR reduced from 19 -> 18
-Hero base HP improved from 190 -> 220
-Creep bounty changed from 30~49 -> 40~45
-Super creep bounty changed from 15~30 -> 20~25
-Point item drop rate decreased from 20% -> 15%
-Creep EXP increases every 3 waves.
-Base assist bonus reduced from 150 -> 100
-Tower damage improved from 75 -> 100
-Hisoutensoku and Genji's HP regen improved from 8 -> 20
-Final towers now have a chance to stun.
-Total number of rune effects changed to 8.
-Runes are now refreshed every 2 minutes.

CHARACTER CHANGES
-Aya, Tenshi, Yamame, Kogasa and Minoriko can check effects by pressing 'Esc'.
-Marisa's Magicannon "Final Spark" cooldown reduced from 140/110/80 -> 100/85/70
-Flandre's model changed, range improved from 100 -> 130
-Flandre's Destruction "Core Breaker" bonus increased from 12.5% -> 15%
-NEW CHARACTER ADDED: MERLIN PRISMRIVER
-Yuyuko's base damage improved from 21~28 -> 22~28
-YUKARI MODERATE REVAMP
-Keine's Land Sign "Hidden Sacred Treasure - Headbutt" damage decreased from 120/155/190/225/260/295/330 -> 120/150/180/210/240/270/300
-Tewi's Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest" bonus damage improved from 0.75/1.5/2.25/3% -> 1/2/3/4%
-Tewi's Runaway Rabbit "Fluster Escape" duration changed from 2/3/4/5 -> 1.5/3/4.5/6
-Tewi's Runaway Rabbit "Fluster Escape" adds a passive effect to Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest" that reduces the enemy's armor by 2/3/4/5 (1 second)
-Tewi's "Lucky Inaba" activation chance improved from 36% -> 40%
-Tewi's "Lucky Inaba" damage absorbtion improved from 12/24/36% -> 13.3/26.7/40%
-KAGUYA MAJOR REVAMP
-Medicine's Confusion "Into Delirium" cooldown increased from 24/20/16 -> 120/100/80
-Shikieiki's Judgement "Last Judgement" no longer stuns allies.
-Shizuha's Autumn Sign "The Autumn Sky and a Maiden's Sleep" cooldown improved from 60 -> 60/55/50/45
-Aya's "Bunbunmaru" damage changed from 11/19/35/67 -> 15/27/46/67
-Aya's "Wind God Girl" allows"Wind God Girl" to be used for 2 seconds at level 1. (4 seconds at 2/3)
-Sanae gained an innate passive ???. Every 120 seconds Sanae gains 1 faith and she gains 2 faith for assists.
-Kanako's Rice Porridge in Tube "God's Rice Porridge" landing time reduced from 1.6/0.8/0.53/0.4 -> 1/0.5/0.33/0.25
-Kisume's Well Bucket "Flying in a Well" AGI modifier improved from 1/1.5/2/2.5 -> 1.2/1.8/2.4/3
-Kisume's ???(R) cooldown improved from 16 -> 14
-Kisume's ???(R) damage reduction improved from 6/9/12/15% -> 7/10.5/14/17.5%
-Kisume's ???(R) damage duration changed from 120/180/240/300 -> 120+AGI*1.2/180+AGI*1.8/240+AGI*2.4/300+AGI*3
-Yuugi's Feat of Strength "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe" activation chance changed from 6/9/12/15% -> 5/10/10/15%
-Yuugi's Feat of Strength "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe" damage changed from 400 -> 300/350/400/450
-Kogasa gained a new passive. ???. Adds 1% aspd and 2 AGI under some condition, 30 charge max.
-Byakuren's Superhuman "Byakuren Hijiri" bonus reduced from 20/40/60 -> 15/30/45
-NEW CHARACTER ADDED: HATATE HIMEKAIDO

ITEM CHANGES
-Gum HP increase reduced from 250 -> 230
-ZUN Hat HP increase reduced from 180 -> 170
-Recipes requiring the above two items have also had HP bonuses reduced.
-Heaven Peach aspd bonus reduced from 25/12.5% -> 20/10%
-Lover Card heal amount reduced from 225 -> 210
-Stopwatch MP cost removed.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 31, 2011, 10:59:09 PM
SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEW CHARACTERS.

Hatate Himekaido. Ranged hero.
D - Blink skill, passive effect of adding movement speed.
F - AoE Bunbunmaru effect.
R - Attack speed increases for a short time as if she were insane.
W - Share vision with an enemy. At level 2 gain aerial view. Something about portals.

Merlin Prismriver. 150 Mid range hero.
Innate passive - every 4 attacks she deals an additional 4% of her max HP as bonus damage. Every time she kills something, she gains 1 max HP.
D - Bonus damage and terror effect. (deals double damage during terror)
F - Increases aspd/ms, reduces armor, bonus damage % on(for?) target.
R - something to do with her HP ratio, all allies around her and herself gains 2 something.
W - Bonus AoE damage when she kills something.Reflect damage.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on April 01, 2011, 12:50:42 AM
Just saying, Merlin's max hp increases by 1 every time she kills something. It's part of her passive, besides the added dmg every 4 hits. Start last-hitting....

yeah and you need like 200~500 last hits for it to make a difference.

good luck getting that kind of cs in DotS! huhuhuhuhuhuhhuhuhu
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 01, 2011, 12:55:34 AM
Her D and S seems really good for farming, though.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on April 01, 2011, 01:01:08 AM
Her D and S seems really good for farming, though.

somebody should try

you know my stance on the game...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 01, 2011, 01:06:04 AM
I would have thought that you'd hate Merlin.
Considering how, you know, she's pretty much the epitome of SOLO FARM TO WIN.

Either way, I can't wait until this weekend.
DotS new version coinciding with HELL WEEKS OVER? Hell yes.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 01, 2011, 01:08:07 AM
Thoughts on Merlin:

She is a troll.  She appears to regen hp based on how much hp she is missing and the aggro skill can really ruin peoples day.  Designed to be part siege due to her 3rd skill massive hp regen it seems.  People put too much emphasis on her innate max hp, but with my best thoughts, at best in an hour long game, I could come up with about 250 bonus hp.  And if you have 250 kills from creeps, your thought isn't on your bonus 250 hp, it's the fact that you probably have almost all your items.  In a typical hour long game?  100, 150 if you put in farming time and last hit/deny like a boss.

Her troll skill can be semi-countered by furiously clicking, more obvious when you know it's coming, which is whenever she is on the screen.  Seriously, it'll be the first thing she does.  You can't run, but at least you won't go to the enemy side.  Cooldown could use a 3 second longer wait time, that'd be enough.

Her ult: I remember hearing that the Chinese prefer 1v1 and 2v2.  Well this hero will probably be banned as a result due to short cooldown.  Due to her strengthness, getting 2000hp early on is easy if you skimp on building a singular item.  Anti-carry, anti-gank, short cooldown.  Crazy useful and borders on hax.  Needs a longer cooldown in my opinion.  Like 60-80 seconds.  If you get ganked, this skill basically goes "You'll kill yourself before you kill me."  Flan is more likely to kill herself before she kills you late game.

Her 2nd skill is a weird one.  It makes enemies gain a lotta damage, attack speed, and movement speed, but they also lose like 10 armor at level 4.  Useful if you have a partner with disables or can easily outspeed them, or physical-heavy attackers, they'll love you for it.  You can also buff your allies with this if your confident they won't get hit or they need the boost to catch up.  This skill is especially dangerous on Youmu if you buff her before she makes Myon.  Quite evil, but also quite useless in just as many situations.  You could potentially skip this skill entirely.


Thoughts on Hatate:

I can see the potential, you can really see the newspaper reporter theme with her skills, which have some relation to Aya.  But her problem is the fact are her skills are basically 'where the enemy is.'  or 'Get outta/into dodge'  Her attack skill, AoE bunbunmaru, doesn't add as much damage and doesn't seem to be pure, so she has to rely entirely on items to do well, unlike most other agi carries who can kill a lot of creeps with just their skills.  I've heard the 'Like Aya' and it rings true, but Hatate, unlike Aya, can chase regardless if the hero blinks/dashes away, subdolls beforehand, and whatnot.  But unfortuantely, Hatate has a terrible strength growth and doesn't have blinking fury, and has to take a beating as a result.  But this is just rambling.

Basically, it feels like she is designed to pick off low hp heroes, and is 100% reliant on items for her killing ability.  But maybe she isn't supposed to kill early game.  Maybe she is supposed to stay back and almost hide while trying to farm faster than everyone else, so she can start participating.  But what do I know, eh?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on April 01, 2011, 01:14:14 AM
I would have thought that you'd hate Merlin.
Considering how, you know, she's pretty much the epitome of SOLO FARM TO WIN.

i'll probably start bitching and moaning about her once i've actually seen her in practice to be honest.

but that's not happening since ~*~i'm not playing~*~
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on April 01, 2011, 01:54:50 AM
Why do you hate me so, ojou-sama?! T.T I curse you and your chains of miserable fate~

*Morale Break*
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on April 01, 2011, 02:11:56 AM
Right now Hatate seems like the most mobile friggin character in the game. AGI character with ranged attack with an instant animation and an instant blink and ability that extends sight and an invincible teleport if she actually does get in trouble, I couldn't chase her down even as Nazrin.

Hardest carry in the game apparently :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 01, 2011, 02:15:47 AM
not that strong in late game compared to other agi because in late game almost any carries got max aspd imo
but yeah at early-midlate game she is really scary
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on April 01, 2011, 02:20:55 AM
3 Carrys vs 2 Anti carrys this can only end well. Game lasts an hour and a half.

Hakurei
Rikter - Reimu
Sodium - Iku
rizock - Hatate
Magnaduelist - Koishi

Moriya
WiteWish - Sikieiki
DollS - Merlin
Stuffman - Nazrin
BrownBeta - Patchouli
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 01, 2011, 02:25:52 AM
Right now Hatate seems like the most mobile friggin character in the game. AGI character with ranged attack with an instant animation and an instant blink and ability that extends sight and an invincible teleport if she actually does get in trouble, I couldn't chase her down even as Nazrin.

Hardest carry in the game apparently :V

None more mobile than Aya.  Dash, blink, dash and your at the other end of the map.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on April 01, 2011, 08:26:11 AM
All right, hear hear you people:  Kogasa, Yukari, Kaguya skills are all translated on wiki.

Tl dr;  Yukari border invul/silence gone -> became single creep drop.  F gap away nerfed in CD.
Kogasa -> passive,  using her W succesful = ++stats (see wiki for exact info)
Kaguya -> major changes, read wiki :V

Merlin is a bitch and Hatate is awesome.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 01, 2011, 04:59:38 PM
DOTS 6.61 .96b is out!  And they went "Woah, we kinda messed up on Kaguya!"

BUG FIXES!
Fixed Kaguya's plant unlimited duration.
Fixed a bug with Kaguya's tree planting skill that would destroy the tree if she had a mini hakkero
Fixed a bug with Rumia's "?Is that so?" that gave it an incorrect cooldown
Fixed some incorrect descriptions
Fixed some bugs with runes not giving their described effects
Fixed a bug that scaled the damage of Sakuya's Time-stopping Knife with her intelligence stat by an extra 0.25%


Some skill icons have changed.
The nothing rune should be working once again.


SKILL AND OTHER STUFF CHANGES
Marisa base armor 0->2
Time Sign 'Sakuya's Special Stopwatch' agility increase 4->3.6
Buriallusion Phantasmic Killer agility increase 6.5->6.0
Shanghai Dolls Assault Mode duration 12->10
Merlin's Spirit of Clifford cooldown 9->10
Yuyuko base damage 22-28 to 22-29(whoopee)
Kaguya revive skill 15%mp+200 to 25%mp+200
Kaguya Impossible Request cooldown 75->120
Kaguya Impossible Request cost 300-500-700 to 500-800-1100
Kaguya Impossible Request health 600/900/1200 to 400/600/800
Kaguya Impossible Request Damage Reflection 10/20/30%  to 7/14/21%
Kaguya Impossible Request Health Regeneration 8/16/24 to 5/10/15
Kaguya Impossible Request now floats 300 from 400 around her.
Kaguya Impossible Request Area of Effect 800 to 600
Sanae's Esoterica Forgotten Ritual mana regen 50->30
Sanae's Divine Virtue mana cost 125/175/250 to 200/300/400
Iku Light Dragon Sigh 85/90/95/100 -> 60/80/100/120
Kisume Burning Ring of Fire base protection 120/180/240/300 -> 100/150/200/250
Kisume Burning Ring of Fire scale protection x1.2/1.8/2.4/3.0 -> x1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5
Hatate Far Sightedness Tengu Psychography cooldown 90/75/60 ​​-> 180/150/120
Utusho?s ?Hell?s Artificial Sun??s gravity effect reduced by a factor of 5
*Stolen from Apharm.  Mwahaha*
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 01, 2011, 05:03:12 PM
Well the "0.???a" maps are usually quite short-lived. 0.961b is out - http://www.mediafire.com/?p162j3by6dhbv90

Warning - choo choo i'm a train

Whoops, looks like Dular already pasted the changes from IRC. I only have the following to add then...

Utusho?s ?Hell?s Artificial Sun??s gravity effect reduced by a factor of 5
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on April 01, 2011, 05:24:22 PM
Hatate seems like an amazing carry:  blink, extra damage (is it pure?), and with lol aspd, you can just stack proc items, rambo in with that blink, (cast adamantine for good measure even if it sucks even more with that hp nerf) pick off their carry, proceed to tele back to base, and push 4v3.

I'm just theorycrafting, of course.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: PX on April 01, 2011, 06:06:45 PM
Actually, that's exactly what happens with Hatate.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 01, 2011, 11:13:30 PM
Hatate seems like an amazing carry:  blink, extra damage (is it pure?), and with lol aspd, you can just stack proc items, rambo in with that blink, (cast adamantine for good measure even if it sucks even more with that hp nerf) pick off their carry, proceed to tele back to base, and push 4v3.

I'm just theorycrafting, of course.
y know fuzzy wuzzieh?give him blink dagger ranged attacks and loltelehome...u got hatate
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 02, 2011, 07:40:52 AM
y know fuzzy wuzzieh?give him blink dagger ranged attacks and loltelehome...u got hatate

I didn't know Hatate got a skill that scaled on her hp, a shockwave type move, and did additive damage orb effect!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 02, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
I didn't know Hatate got a skill that scaled on her hp, a shockwave type move, and did additive damage orb effect!
lolk but many ppl other than me said so...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on April 02, 2011, 09:25:07 PM
So ApharmdB found out all of the SDM are bugged and have 30 less base HP than everyone else.

There is a spread sheet with a bunch of info in the channel topic with all this. It contains info on all of the heros.

Yuugi also has one of the best attack animations Nitori has the best, Nue has the longest cast times(And Byakuren but Byakuren doesn't need to aim), Rumia, Mystia and Wriggle have no natural HP regeneration in the daytime but Rumia and Mystia have 5x natural regen at night.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on April 03, 2011, 12:35:34 AM
Come on man look at Byakuren's back swing man, it's abysmal. That thing is like 1.5s or possibly longer.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on April 03, 2011, 02:23:15 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?669tmtdz93ginim#1

This is the link to the sheet. And after checking Rumia out in game she actually does have HP regen without items in the daytime.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 03, 2011, 02:26:52 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?669tmtdz93ginim#1

This is the link to the sheet. And after checking Rumia out in game she actually does have HP regen without items in the daytime.

Probably because of her strength.  She just doesn't have any natural hp regen.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 03, 2011, 04:19:04 AM
Probably because of her strength.  She just doesn't have any natural hp regen.

Yep all heroes have a hp regen of (0.03 * strength) hp/s. The hp regen bonus stat is from the racial hp regen bonus in vanilla warcraft 3 (e.g. night elves regen faster at night, undead regen only on blight, etc).

Projectile speeds added. The file is at the same link that Rikter posted. I think the animation statistics are presented in the reverse order of how playdota presents them (read the footnote in the file). I merely extracted the data out from the world editor in the sequence that the fields came in from top to bottom.  :3
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on April 04, 2011, 09:33:51 PM
Was good match. We couldn't finish all racks in time. Bah =V

HAKSOE!
Heroe - Tenshoe
Heloe - Kaguyoe
Kactoe - Remiloe
Aphoe - Reisoe

vs

MOOII <-- Winning tiim
Pescii - Yugii
Headsii - Komahii
Whiteii - Hatatii
Dulii - Hinaii
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on April 05, 2011, 04:54:51 PM
I remember that I read on a Mortred guide that phase boots would disable her crits while it's activated. In DotS, kitsune stops Flan's ults from working while it's on, as well. Does this occur for other heroes as well, if you have a nice boat, and you use kitsune, would it stop crits from proccing?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on April 05, 2011, 05:45:35 PM
It should stop all crits from activating
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 06, 2011, 08:48:14 PM
So we play other games on occasion, you know?  Sometimes random games, Jurassic Park, Poker Tower Defense, plain old poker, but recently we got another game(in english no less) called Scarlet Devil Mansion Defense, it uses the same models and was made by the same people who made dots, and it is crazy fun.  Drop on by, because it's an easy way to waste 2 hours and is crazy fun as I said.  Max people is 5 players though.


Now I woke up this morning and said to myself "I'm going to make a little list of what I think the heroes are like!"... So I did!  Now to all people who may berate me, and say 'This is wrong, you are wrong.'  This list is from my experience and opinion.  If you don't like it, then don't follow it.  Kinda like saying sub-doll Hina or tank hina is stupid when compared to the other, blah blah blah.  Anyways!  These are the heroes and general playstyle!


This guide is generally for full house games!



Reimu:

Reimu's role to to simply be there and rack up as many points as possible.  Genji is her damage, her buff is titanic to carries(Sakuya in particular), and her last word weakens ALL enemies map-wide.  Her job is simple to stay alive.  As such, tank items would be nice. Reimu needs score critically, if she is not killing Yamame every round, she'll just be gimped later.

Works best with: Anyone
Reimu can share a lane with anyone, as long as she's middle and killing Yamame.  Genji will always be able to sneak in a few kills.

Works worst with: No one
Reimu works best when she actually isn't killing creeps, except for creeps another lane can't handle. She mainly sits around and kills Yamame and racks up points.  She can solo mid if no one else wants to.



Marisa:

Marisa is a score hog, plain and simple.  Early on her orreries sun deals super damage and pretty much clears creep waves by itself, easily obtainable, and can rush to it, few other people can do it, but later on she slows down... Until she gets Master Spark, which can really save the day if you max the reactor.  She needs score about as much as Remilia, which is not that much.

Works best with: Patchouli
Patchouli can't kill so good mid game, but can really stomp late game.  Marisa covers for her until Patchouli can cover her Marisa.

Works worst with: Remilia, Flandre
Flandre needs score, fast to increase her innate and Marisa is too jerk to let that happen!  Remilia likewise needs to kill as slow as possible, which hampers Remilia's farming.



Remilia:
Remilia's job is to farm AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.  Give her a miko divine suit and a donation box and she will get a MILLION points at the sin wave, provided no one interferes and you do the time stop.  Even more if you can shop while very slowly killing the wave.  She does good damage with magic and tanks well with her innate and last word, just in case.  She is simply an enabler for the other carries, and probably needs score the least out of all heroes.

Works best with: Reimu, Patchouli
Reimu and Patchy generally stays out of the way with Genji/Koa, and you can invite Reimu/Patchouli to kill the creeps sans Genji/Koa.  The two will get some extra score that Remilia doesn't really need.

Works worst with: Instagibbers
Let's face it, the carries will get to the point where they will explode any creep wave isntantly.   Remilia needs the creeps to live as long as possible, and these characters will not do.




Flandre:
Flandre is a boss killer.  With life leech, four of a kind, and Q.E.D she can tank pretty much any mob.  She's a pretty simple person to play, but almost needed for what she does.  Score is nice on Flandre, needed until level 7 or 8 or 9.  You shouldn't really care too much about it after.

Works best with: Tenshi, Patchouli
Tenshi and Patchouli don't kill creeps too fast, Flan doesn't kill creeps too fast.  They work surprisingly well together.

Works worst with: Marisa, Sakuya.
The early instagibber of Marisa and the later instagibbing of Sakuya hampers Flan's farming, she needs the score to get her innate up and the creeps to get her money up and these two don't let that happen.



Sakuya:
Sakuya is a-move hero.  Her strongest assets are passives, but her defensive ability isn't up there.  Against bosses, she needs a tank such as Flandre.  Against waves, she'll one shot them ALL later on.  Simple, and the glass cannon rings true with her.  If they don't die in one or two shots, she'll die.  She works best if she solos, but should lane with another person once her passive reaches level 6 or 7 and take turns killing creeps.  Give the solo to someone that needs score more.

Works best with: Tenshi(If Remilia is around), Suika
Surprisingly, Tenshi works well with Sakuya early on if Remilia is around.  Remilia gives Tenshi a Cheongsam and an Oar and the two can actually take turns instagibbing creeps.  Tenshi gibs 6 enemies, then Sakuya gibs six enemies.. Weird relationship.  Suika falls under the same umbrella, they'll both have almost equal score if they are together for the game.

Works worst with: Remilia
Oddly enough, Sakuya doesn't work well with her master, the two have directly opposed play styles, and just shouldn't be near each other.



Patchouli:
Patchouli ranks right up there with Flan in late game ability.  Koakuma at max level is more hax than Flandre and Philosopher Stone is beastly, but she needs score, cannot solo early on, doesn't earn money too well, but later she is hojesus strong if you take care of her.  Patchouli needs score badly, but not as much as Reimu.  Her late game spells can cost more mana than she actually has, and the boost will give Koakuma even bigger damage.

Works best with: Reimu, Remilia

Remilia tank creeps and pretty much sit there and use their spells and wait till they are dead, and Reimu lets Genji do the work.  Patchouli merely last hits for her share and bides her time before she can contribute with Koakuma.  With Reimu, they make the summoning team!

Works worst with: Sakuya

Sakuya once again instagibs the creeps, which is terrible for Patchouli, even if she gets Koakuma.




Meiling:
Meiling is the tanker hero, but she can pull off nice DPS as well  Kinda a mix of both, but doesn't excel at either.  Her innate is probably the second best, with armor doubling with each level, but she needs to solo, and she'll take time, and she can become magic immune for 1 second with a 2 second cooldown. Very useful, but she needs her own lane to get strong and start REALLY tanking.  If you lane her with an instagibber, or someone that takes score, she'll gradually turn into China, the useless character.

Works best with: Flandre, Remilia
You lane early with Remilia and snipe her mobs with your spin, it does 5x the damage and has a large AoE, she won't mind TOO much.  She will be a little miffed about it if there is no other way though.  You tank for Flandre on bosses late game thanks to her lovely lifesteal and China can hold her own against bosses with her Inner Dragon Chi and natural crit.

Works worst with: Everyone else(Including Flan early)
Seriously.  She needs to solo or team up with Remilia.  Literally everyone else(except Tenshi) can kill better than her.



Suika:
Suika is a beast early on, beast middle, and a beast later on.  Probably THE most overpowered character in the game overall, she enables Yamame killing almost immediately and only gets stronger from there.  All you need you know is that she is freaking OP.
Suika needs score about as much as Flandre.  At level 8 or 9, you don't really have to care much anymore.


Works best with: Sakuya, Flandre
Suika is quite weak for a good part of the same without her mini-suika, Sakuya will gladly pick up the slack since she doesn't need score that much.  Flan will too if you two don't mind taking turns.  Mini-Suikas last for about half a creep wave, if a little less.

Works worst with: Every not instagibber
Suika typically instagibs, even if it doesn't last a creepwave.  The not instagibbers need score the most and your presence isn't helping.


Tenshi:
Tenshi is the most tank in this game with her temperament, but she needs a boss item that gives armor to really bring out the tenko in her.  Her passive is also is a boon for most of the game, but she needs score and items to really bring her out, and early game that isn't gonna happen.  Babysitting her will be required if you don't have Remilia.  Her innate is MASSIVE AoE by the way.  It will reach you, I promise.  Tenshi needs points badly and fast, which is sad because without items her killing ability is the smallest.

Works best with: Remilia(in the game), Patchouli
Remilia is practically needed for Tenshi to become worthwhile on the front lines.  Her killing ability otherwise is terrible minus her keystone press, but when the game gets to the point where Patch can almost kill creeps but not quite, Tenshi will be there and happily help out if there is no Remilia.

Works worst with: Carries(minus Sakuya if Remilia is around)
Carries kill creeps as fast as possible, and Tenshi simply cannot get in on that action unless the carry purposefully kills slow, which in some spots may prove fatal.



Iku:

Iku is a rather versatile character, able to do any situation well, but she excels when you focus in two or even one of three areas.  Of course the areas are tanking, DPS, and support.  She works with just about any character well, and needs... and I mean NEEDS a kappa lightsaber later on.  Don't be fooled into thinking her passive doesn't give a very good shield, it has another very powerful ability.  Iku needs score a lot early on, but even at level 5 she'll be pretty set after that.  Just killing things normally will give her level 7 or 8 near Rumia.  Unlike Sakuya though, she only gets more benefits from higher score.  Oddly enough, Iku can use power the LEAST of any hero and still do excellent, maxing one normal skill and still getting to Rumia but depending on what area you want to focus on, you might end up using a little more.

Works best with: Everyone minus Remilia
Iku is a versatile character as I said, she can instagib to lane with Suika, Sakuya, and Tenshi, and she can fast-kill with Flan, Reimu, and Patchouli.  The only character that really disagrees with this is Remilia, as Iku does not have a slow-kill button.

Works worst with: Remilia
Remilia slow kills.  Iku, although versatile, cannot not kill fast.   Don't work too well.





This is a general guide.  If you don't know what this stuff means, come by and play to learn, and we'll play some Defense of the Shrines too.  It'll be fun!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 07, 2011, 01:37:34 PM
Well if anyone wants info on the SDMD waves, I compiled the info below from eaji-modo for those who want to remind themselves of which wave does what.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rcm591o9dbaf2g1 (updated with 0.26b stats, difficulty adjustments and boss info (incomplete))

Gonna try building Reimu with 6 cheongsums and lvl 3 Fantasy Seal next time :P

Edit: Database updated with Mystia's evasion and the last boss' two active spells. Thanks WhiteWish!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 07, 2011, 06:10:05 PM
thx 4 the database btw advent cirno has 2 active spells the first one is straight path stun (similar to tenshi's D but no block) the second ones is stun area
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Reverie on April 08, 2011, 11:23:59 PM
SDMD 5man team. we managed to clear rumia's wave .
heres the replay
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on April 09, 2011, 10:29:54 AM
Here's another sdmd replay with 4 people. We actually managed to get past Rumia even with the lag but was killed by bashers. Got too overconfident there.

Also, Godly Tenshi.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 09, 2011, 07:01:02 PM
.961D!  Changelog is as follows.

MANY BUG FIXES!


Magic Sign Stardust Reverie Cooldown 9->8 seconds
Eye am the strongest!  Mana cost 25->29
I'M NOT STUPID!!! cooldown 120->119(seriously?)
Time Sign 'Sakuya Special Stopwatch' agility growth 3.6->3.4
Buriallusion Phantasmic Killer agility growth 6.00->5.8
Shanghai Doll base attack speed increased from 1.10->1.25 seconds
Shanghai Assault Mode attack speed increase 50%->35%
New England Doll base attack speed increased from 1.40->1.50 seconds
New England Doll Artful Sacrifice damage decreased to 85/110/135/160 -> 80/100/120/140
New England Doll Siege bonus damage decreased to 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0 -> 1.2/1.6/2.0/2.4
Spirit of Clifford berserk time reduced to 1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5 -> 1.0/1.4/1.8/2.2 seconds
Exciting Trumpet Piece - First Movement duration reduced from 6/8/10 -> 6/7/8
Sword Skill Thousand Cherry Blossoms damage reduced to 50/80/110/140 -> 50/75/100/125
Spirit 'Secret of Spirit and Wisdom' mana cost increased to 60/70/80/90 -> 100
Outer Force 'Semi-Bordered Flying Object' damage reduced to 135/175/215/255 -> 135/170/205/240
Night Sparrow Midnight Chorus Master once again works with bento(not entirely sure)
Illusion Imperishable Night Shroud cast range 600 -> 550/700/850/1000
Medicine Sign Butterfly Dream Pill additive effects +40% -> +60%
Rabbit Sign Great Fortune Crest damage ratio increased to 1/2/3/4% -> 1.25/2.50/3.75/5.00%
Kaguya Impossible Request Armor aura 4/8/12 -> 3/6/9, hp regen 4/8/12-> 2/4/6
Kaguya Impossible Request Treasure armor 0->3
Immortal Flying Fire Bird Flying Phoenix cooldown reduced to 13/16/19/22 -> 13/15/17/19
Honest Man's Death base attack time is reduced from .15->.20 seconds
Cursed Field Purification River Deposit absorption rate 30/50/70% -> 40/50/60%
Cursed Field Purification River Deposit debuff absorption damage reduced from 50 -> 20
Dragon Fish 'Kamina' cooldown reduced from 100 -> 100/90/80
Hell's Artificial Sun gravity effect reworked to 110/165/220G -> 140/170/200G
Suwako can no longer gain bento charges with mana shield on.

Unfortunately I'm not Chinese, and there is only so much I can work out on my own.  These are the skills(in glorious engrish) that I couldn't work out.


- - 夜雀声符「领唱者」便当回魔无效化Night bird sound symbols "cantor" lunch back to the void of magic
- 夜雀声符「领唱者」回魔效益按便当的收集列表运行 - Night bird sound symbols "cantor" back to the collection of magic-effective list run by lunch
- 所有消耗性物品便当收集无效化 - Lunch for all expendable items collected invalidation
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on April 09, 2011, 07:06:36 PM
Quote
「小小青蛙不畏风雨」便当收集无效化 - "Little Frog undeterred by the rain," Invalid collection of lunch
This probably means Suwako can't get charges on her bento while she's using her mana shield.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: PX on April 09, 2011, 07:09:20 PM
- - 夜雀声符「领唱者」便当回魔无效化Wing Lam "Butterfly Dream nightmare pill" additive effects on their own +40% -> +60%
- 永琳「永夜归隐」施法距离600 -> 550/700/850/1000 - Wing Lam "stay night Hermitage" cast range 600 -> 550/700/850/1000

Eirin's [Medicine Sign "Butterfly Dream Pill"] Attack Speed Boost +40% -> 60%
Eirin's [Illusion " Imperishable Night Shroud"] Cast Range from 600 -> 550/700/850/1000
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 09, 2011, 11:25:41 PM
Ehh it looks like I'm late to the party this time round. Cursed sleeping hours and all. :P

This probably means Suwako can't get charges on her bento while she's using her mana shield.

Eh it means that Suwako activating her mana shield will not charge an enemy's bento.

Anyway, bug fixes....

Fixed a bug where units in flight would remain flying indefinitely after using a jump pad
Fixed a bug where the SDM heros had lower than usual base hp (time for me to update the DotS stats list)
Fixed the description of Sakuya's "Phantomic Killer in the Night Mist" skill
Fixed a bug that gave Sakuya an additional 340 max hp when using Private Square
Fixed a bug that gave Alice's New England Dolls an additional 50 max hp when in battalion mode
Fixed a bug with Yuyuko's Deadly Dance "Law of Mortality" that returned only 5 mp per unit killed at all levels
Fixed a bug with Suika's "Misty Labyrinth" skill that allowed it to be activated after initiating a TP without interrupting the TP
Fixed a bug that gave Suika's vision range to any creep thrown by her (? ambiguous phrasing in the original)
Fixed a bug with Kaguya's "Udonge Planting" skill that failed to give the trees invisibility
Fixed a bug with Shikieiki's "Last Judgement" skill that would not stun guiltless enemies
Fixed a bug that made Nazrin appear twice on the scoreboard at the end of the game
Fixed a bug that upgraded Minamitsu's boat skill to lvl 3 when using the substitution doll or having an illusion of Minamitsu created by any other means (?)
Fixed a bug that frequently made Hatate's "Hatate's Journalism Training" ineffective (no mention of whether it was the passive movement speed bonus or the blink that was ineffective; the latter seemed mighty effective all the time)
Fixed a bug that made the watermelon sword's and other orbs' effects ineffective with Hatate's attack

I'll uh.. add on to the other fixes later if needed.. looks like the rest have been translated, albeit into google engrish form.

Edit: I figured the previous translations didn't pick up on one MAJOR change with Kaguya's ult.

Marisa's "Stardust Reverie" cooldown changed from 9s to 8s
Cirno's "Eye am the strongest!" mana cost changed from 25 to 29
Cirno's "I'm not stupid!" cooldown changed from 120s to 119s
Sakuya's Strange Art "Knife of Eternity" damage scaling with agility changed from 3.6 per 5 points of agility to 3.4 per 5 points of agility (in the wiki, this skill is called Time Sign "Sakuya's Special Stopwatch")
Sakuya's Buriallusion "Phantomic Killer in the Night Mist" damage scaling with agility changed from 6 per 5 points of agility to 5.8 per 5 points of agility
Alice's Shanghai dolls' attack cooldown increased from 1.1s to 1.25s
Alice's Shanghall dolls' Doll Assault Mode attack speed bonus decreased from 50% to 35%
Alice's New England dolls' battalion mode attack cooldown increased from 1.4s to 1.5s
Alice's New England dolls' self explosion damage reduced from 85/110/135/160 to 80/100/120/140
Alice's New England dolls' damage multiplier to buildings reduced from 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0 to 1.2/1.6/2.0/2.4
Merlin's "Spiritual Music" taunt duration changed from 1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5s to 1.0/1.4/1.8/2.2s (The skill's name directly translates to Ghostly Music "Spirit of Clifford".)
Merlin's "Exciting Trumpet Piece - First Movement" duration changed from 6/8/10s to 6/7/8s
Youmu's Sword Skill "Cherry Blossom Flash" damage changed from 50/80/110/140 to 50/75/100/125
Youmu's Spirit "Secret of Spirit and Wisdom" mana cost increased from 60/70/80/90 to 100 at all levels
Yukari's External Force "Orbital Pull" damage changed from 135/175/215/255 to 135/170/205/240 (in the wiki, the skill's name is Outer Force "Semi-Bordered Flying Object"... although the name hasn't got anything to do with borders. Tricky translation.)
Mystia's "Midnight Chorus Master" now does not trigger mana recovery when using a bento, but it does charge up enemies' bentos when it triggers
Tewi's "Great Fortune Crest" percentage of enemy max hp used in damage bonus calculation increased from 1/2/3/4% to 1.25/2.5/3.75/5%
Eirin's "Butterfly Dream Pill" bonus effect to self increased from +40% to +60% (did this skill always work better on Eirin than on her teammates? Made sense for balancing if so.)
Eirin's "Imperishable Night Redux" cast range changed from 600 at all levels to 550/700/850/1000
Kaguya's Impossible Requests now revolve about the spot where they were summoned instead of revolving around Kaguya herself
Kaguya's Impossible Requests' armour bonus decreased from 4/8/12 to 3/6/9 and mana regen bonus decreased from 4/8/12 to 2/4/6
Kaguya's Impossible Requests' treasures' armour increased from 0 to 3
Mokou's Immortal "Fire Bird - Flying Phoenix" cooldown changed from 13/16/19/22 to 13/15/17/19
Mokou's "Honest Man's Death" base attack speed reduction increased from 0.15s to 0.20s
Hina's Curse Sign "Curse Storage" damage absorption (and reflection) changed from 30/50/70% to 40/50/60% and damage bonus for negative buffs decreased from 50 to 20
Iku's Heaven Sign "The Drill that Pierces the Heavens" cooldown changed from 100 at all levels to 100/90/80
Utsuho's "Hell's Artificial Sun" gravity effect changed from 110/165/220G to 140/170/200G

"Kero-chan Braves the Elements" now does not charge enemies' bentos when activated
Consumable items now do not charge enemies' bentos when used

The updated DotS stats file is now at http://www.mediafire.com/?6585yll7m91l6lo (only the SDM heros' base hp changed)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: miruza on April 10, 2011, 02:04:21 AM
Here's another sdmd replay with 4 people. We actually managed to get past Rumia even with the lag but was killed by bashers. Got too overconfident there.

Also, Godly Tenshi.

finally i found some wc3 touhou thread about sdmd :3
yay

first i'd like to ask those sdmd
how to pick tenshi? i heard you need to type magic word to make tenshi/iku playable
and 2nd about replay i quote, i dont have the map SDM_Defence_V1.26b_MOD.w3x
so i cant really watch the replay
i play with map v0.26b same with the 1st replay
and defeated on mystia wave

whats the difference on 2nd replay map
is it newer?

it suck this map doesnt have skip command
play in easy mode keep me n my friend bored waiting wave to come
and defeated on hero wave
lols

btw thx for the table and some info
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 10, 2011, 06:12:27 AM
first i'd like to ask those sdmd
how to pick tenshi? i heard you need to type magic word to make tenshi/iku playable
and 2nd about replay i quote, i dont have the map SDM_Defence_V1.26b_MOD.w3x
so i cant really watch the replay
i play with map v0.26b same with the 1st replay
and defeated on mystia wave

whats the difference on 2nd replay map
is it newer?

In the original map, only player 1 (red) could select Tenshi by saying "tanshiopen". In the modified map, I think anyone can select Tenshi or Iku just by clicking on them.

The modified map adds a "-skip" command, usable by player 1. Player 1 is also able to change the waiting time between waves once during the game (110s is the default). It also displays more information, e.g. the number of the current wave.

Mystia has high evasion, so you'd need to either defeat her with spells or overcome her evasion with brute force like Flan's critical striking with high aspd.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: miruza on April 10, 2011, 06:21:47 AM
In the original map, only player 1 (red) could select Tenshi by saying "tanshiopen". In the modified map, I think anyone can select Tenshi or Iku just by clicking on them.

The modified map adds a "-skip" command, usable by player 1. Player 1 is also able to change the waiting time between waves once during the game (110s is the default). It also displays more information, e.g. the number of the current wave.

Mystia has high evasion, so you'd need to either defeat her with spells or overcome her evasion with brute force like Flan's critical striking with high aspd.

for the god sake
-skip commanddddddddd

i really want it
could u share the mod map

also
do you have any formation for fighting againts the boss char
from alice and other stronger boss
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: blabla1994 on April 10, 2011, 06:35:57 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?5omx8ebymocn2jt

Here ya go.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: miruza on April 10, 2011, 07:00:56 AM
thanks so much

let see how far tonight defense will be
yukari anyone? :D
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 11, 2011, 03:04:51 AM
SDMD really ought to get its own thread, but it doesn't seem like something one would post up many replays of since it's essentially a puzzle game. Anyway, the sdmd wave database has been updated with all the abilities in the various waves, boss stats and difficulty multipliers and all that jazz, just so that you can see what'll own your team on Extra mode, although it's still incomplete (armour values for the last 2 stages are missing and remain as their 0.19 values.) Choose the difficulty at the top of the sheets - 1 = Easy, 2 = Normal, 3 = Hard, 4 = Lunatic, 5 = Extra.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rcm591o9dbaf2g1

Stats should all be there now. Didn't put in the items held by the bosses. Also probably gonna leave that alone now that I'm satisfied that my macro works (I created it to pull info out for the DotS stats) and also in light of indications from the sdmd forums that the entire map is being reworked for the next revision  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 11, 2011, 04:15:48 AM
wow you put much effort to create that database thx a lot
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on April 14, 2011, 10:12:31 AM
LotP is Lore of the Protectors, a corny DotA-rip off.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 15, 2011, 11:23:21 PM
<Rikter> Also I officially declare Alien Month over

Hakurei
Pesco (Eirin)
Dormio (Mokou)
Rikter (Utsuho)
Ace-Royale (Flandre)

Moriya
Helepolis (Sanae)
Tapsa (Merlin)
Reverie (Byakuren)
WhiteWish (Ran)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 17, 2011, 04:12:13 AM
Remember that guide on sdmd about... sdmd?  Since Iku is working again, here are my thoughts on her.

Iku:
Iku is a rather versatile character, able to do any situation well, but she excels when you focus in two or even one of three areas.  Of course the areas are tanking, DPS, and support.  She works with just about any character well, and needs... and I mean NEEDS a kappa lightsaber later on.  Don't be fooled into thinking her passive doesn't give a very good shield, it has another very powerful ability.  Iku needs score a lot early on, but even at level 5 she'll be pretty set after that.  Just killing things normally will give her level 7 or 8 near Rumia.  Unlike Sakuya though, she only gets more benefits from higher score.  Oddly enough, Iku can use power the LEAST of any hero and still do excellent, maxing one normal skill and still getting to Rumia but depending on what area you want to focus on, you might end up using a little more.

Works best with: Everyone minus Remilia
Iku is a versatile character as I said, she can instagib to lane with Suika, Sakuya, and Tenshi, and she can fast-kill with Flan, Reimu, and Patchouli.  The only character that really disagrees with this is Remilia, as Iku does not have a slow-kill button.

Works worst with: Remilia
Remilia slow kills.  Iku, although versatile, cannot not kill fast.   Don't work too well.


I'll edit my previous post a bit ago to include Iku.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 17, 2011, 05:18:58 AM
well in sdmd iku can dps and suport yes (especially from her last word) but tank is quite no lol (needs to maxing her her 15P skill..maybe i missed something since i didn't play sdmd for almost  2 weeks)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on April 17, 2011, 06:24:50 AM
You just ain't lookin' hard enough then, there is quite a tough tanker/something else build for Iku.  It can't stand on it's own of course.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Reverie on April 17, 2011, 03:42:18 PM
You just ain't lookin' hard enough then, there is quite a tough tanker/something else build for Iku.  It can't stand on it's own of course.
so how do you unlock iku?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Tapsa on April 17, 2011, 04:33:34 PM
so how do you unlock iku?
Play the modded SDMD. Unless if there's commands for unlocking Iku in the original, but overall the modded one is just IMO better with the -wait and -skip commands...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on April 17, 2011, 11:49:12 PM
1 hour 54 minute 4v4 consists of way to much stuff to even consider explaining

Hakurei
rizock - Suwako
Looli - Sanae
WhiteWish - Koakuma
Sodium - Merlin

Moriya
Hero999 - Eiki
Shadowbringer - Cirno
DollS - Mokou
Rikter - Utsuho

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 21, 2011, 04:13:24 AM
Ok, 0.962c released.

I'll translate the changelog once I get home from uni in a few hours.
In the meantime have the Shou skill info:

Passive innate - Shou gains a pillar every 12 seconds. Whenever she uses a skill, she can consume a pillar to deal an additional [35 + mMP*3%] damage. 6 pillar maximum.

1st - Adds armor and magic resistance for 6 seconds. Returns a set amount of damage if hit whilst this skill is active. Loses effect once hit.

2nd - Deals damage to the target. Gains additional skills upon learning, consumes pillars. Does not share cooldown.

3rd (Passive) - If an enemy girl is within 250 range and is on x% of HP, the girl will take X damage and be stunned for 0.X seconds. Additionally, if a girl is killed after being marked by this skill, she will give extra bounty.

Ult - Deals damage and stuns. 5 pillars are used.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 21, 2011, 04:33:00 AM
Some miscellaneous skill changes.

-Tewi's traps are now marked for allies.
-Momiji gains a passive which allows her to crit for 2x damage on a 15% chance.
-Raymoo gains a passive which gives her 5 gold every 12 seconds. She gains an extra 100 gold for assists.
-Suwackerz gains an innate nuke that deals [50 + INT*1.2] damage. 4s cooldown.
-Nitori's 3rd now does an additional 50% damage every 5 times it hits a girl.

New items:

-Watermelon: +12 attack, -3 armor
-Some camera thing: +40 AGI, +30% aspd, 70% chance to deal an additional [mHP*7%]damage.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 21, 2011, 04:45:19 AM
Quote
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> HEY
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> DO
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> YOU
[14:47] <TranceHime> Tell me about it Stuffman.
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> KNOW
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> HOW
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> MUCH
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> MP
[14:47] <Sodium> OR HAY GUIZE, SHOU CAN'T DIE
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> SUWACKERZ INNATE COSTS?
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> BECAUSE
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> IT'S
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> FUCKING
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> 1
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> MP
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> 1 WHOLE FUCKING MP
[14:47] <Sodium> AW YEAH
[14:47] <Sodium> HI5 EVERYONE
[14:47] <TranceHime> It's... 1 mp.
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> FREE SPAMMABLE
[14:47] <Sodium> ANOTHER MASTERPIECE FROM DOTSDEVS
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> NUKE
[14:47] <rizock> DORMIO
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> THAT DOES 80 DAMAGE
[14:47] <rizock> CALM DOWN
[14:47] <Dormio|Lab> AT LEVEL 1
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> FOR
[14:48] <Sodium> it's range is melee range right?
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> 1
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> WHOLE
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> MP
[14:48] <rizock> DORMIO
[14:48] <rizock> CALM
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> 700 RANGE
[14:48] <Sodium> or is it range?
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> 700
[14:48] <TranceHime> ...
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> RANGE
[14:48] <Sodium> AW YEAH
[14:48] <Sodium> FUCK YES
[14:48] <Sodium> SUWAKO IS TOO GOOD
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> SUWACKERZ
[14:48] <Dormio|Lab> GOD TIER
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 21, 2011, 05:17:42 AM
Edit: Translated changelog and map download link at http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg611749.html#msg611749 instead.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 21, 2011, 05:35:46 AM
OMG APHARMBD WHY?

You know how I said I'd tl this at home?
I lied.

Hero Changes:

-Reimu innate added.
-Marisa's Ritualise Space "Orreries Solar System" cooldown reduced from 30/28/26/24 -> 18
-Koakuma's "Devil Librarian" 0.10 MP regen gain for every 2% MP lost changed -> every 2.5% MP lost
-Patchouli's Sun Sign "Royal Flare" effect changed.
-Sakuya's Time Sign "Sakuya?s Special Stopwatch" AGI damage gain reduced from 3.40 -> 3.25
-Sakuya's Buriallusion "Phantasmic Killer" AGI damage gain reduced from 5.80 -> 5.50
-Remilia's Scarlet Sign "Red the Nightless Castle" no longer protects from certain debuffs.
-Alice's War Command "Sonic Rush" MP cost reduced from 600 -> 300
-Alice's War Command "Sonic Rush"  cooldown increased from 54 -> 75
-Merlin's Exciting Trumpet Piece - First Movement cooldown increased from 60/50/40 -> 100/90/80
-Yukari's base armor increased from 0 -> 2
-Suika's Qi of Oni "Deep Fog Labyrinth" cooldown changed from 15 -> 30/25/20/15
-Tewi's Cunning Rabbit "Ancient Duper" is linked with her innate.
-Tewi's Cunning Rabbit "Ancient Duper" is now shown in red to allies.
-Tewi's Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest" damage % increased from 1.25/2.5/3.75/5 -> 1.5/3/4.5/6
-Kaguya's innate MP cost reduced from [25%+200] -> [20%+200]
-Kaguya's Impossible Request "Dragon?s Necklace?Indomitable Will- Everlasting Life-Patient Mind" cooldown reduced from 120 -> 60
-Shikieiki's Judgement "Guilty or Not Guilty" targets are now able to check their own guilt.
-Nitori's Chemistry "Light Saber Energy Reaction" no longer depends on Optics "Photon Cannon Cucumber.II" and follows Nitori's base level instead.
-Momiji's innate chance decreased from 20% -> 15%
-Suwako innate added.
-Koishi's base attack changed from 19~25 -> 19~24
-NEW CHARACTER ADDED: SHOU TORAMARU

Item Changes:

-Ice cube cost reduced from 2350 -> 2200
-Bento now only charges the first time a skill is used. (Skills charged resets whenever bento is used)
-Brother Sharp cost reduced from 4600 -> 4300
-Portable Donation Box bounty increased from 32 -> 40
-Unknown Stopwatch stop duration increased from 1.12 -> 1.44
-Oar attack bonus increased from 26 -> 28
-Anchor attack bonus increased from 26 -> 28
-Nice Boat attack bonus increased from 60 -> 64
-You Sure That's Enough Armor? price reduced from 3579 -> 3333
-Wing of a Pheonix price increased from 4200 -> 4800
-3D Escapade price reduced from 5100 -> 4800
-Jiao Show's Mask effect changed from 800 AoE 40% damage reduction -> 300 AoE 40% movement speed reduction
-Jiao Show's Mask duration and cooldown changed from 6s duration, 15s cooldown -> 3s duration, 25s cooldown
-New Item: High-Tech Camera
-New Item: Watermelon
-Watermelon Sword recipe changed from Screwdrive x2 -> Screwdriver + Watermelon
-Watermelon Sword effect changed from +48 attack, -7 armor corruption for 5s -> +36 attack, -9 armor corruption for 2s
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 21, 2011, 06:44:20 AM
Shou
Range: 275

Innate
Every 12 seconds, Shou accumulates one magic pillar, up to a maximum of 6.
Her active skills use these pillars and additionally recovers 35 + 3% of her max hp/mp as health/mana.


D
Uses up 1 pillar to increase Shou's armour and magic resistance for 6.0s.
Within the duration, Shou's first attack after activating the skill carries bonus magic damage.
TThe armour and magic resistance bonus is removed after Shou's first attack.

Cooldown: 14/12/10/8
Mana: 80 (bugged, doesn't use any mana)

Level 1: 8 bonus armour, 16% additional magic resistance. 120 additional magic damage on first attack.
Level 2: 12 bonus armour, 24% additional magic resistance. 180 additional magic damage on first attack.
Level 3: 16 bonus armour, 32% additional magic resistance. 240 additional magic damage on first attack.
Level 4: 20 bonus armour, 40% additional magic resistance. 300 additional magic damage on first attack.

F
Uses up 1 pillar to create a blue/red magic pillar (use E for red, F for blue. They have separate cooldowns.)
If a unit comes within a certain distance from the pillar, the pillar will cause damage in an AoE.
The pillar lasts for 10 seconds.

Cast range: 600
Activation distance: 90
Damage AoE: 90
Cooldown: 6/5/4/3
Mana: 45/55/65/75

Level 1: Does 80 magic damage.
Level 2: Does 135 magic damage.
Level 3: Does 190 magic damage.
Level 4: Does 245 magic damage.

R (Passive)
Instantly kills a unit targetted by Shou that is below a specified percentage of its maximum health.
Enemies killed by this skill give additional bounty and adds 1 pillar.
At the same time, it deals magic damage and stuns in an AoE around the target.

Damage AoE: 250

Level 1: Instant kill on units below 2.5% of max health. Additional bounty of 2 gold, 40 AoE damage and 0.30s stun.
Level 1: Instant kill on units below 5.0% of max health. Additional bounty of 3 gold, 60 AoE damage and 0.50s stun.
Level 1: Instant kill on units below 7.5% of max health. Additional bounty of 4 gold, 80 AoE damage and 0.70s stun.
Level 1: Instant kill on units below 10.0% of max health. Additional bounty of 5 gold, 100 AoE damage and 0.90s stun.

W - "Complete Clarification"
Shou uses magic to move to the target location, creating 5 magic pillars from her location that damage and stun the target. Uses 1 pillar.

Cast range: 700
Length of pillar: 1100
Damage AoE: 180
Cooldown: 90
Mana: 250/300/350

Level 1: 220 magic damage and 1.0s stun.
Level 2: 440 magic damage and 1.5s stun.
Level 3: 660 magic damage and 2.0s stun.

Edit:Let the rage over OP Shou begin  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 21, 2011, 06:51:28 AM
Suwackerz's passive

Range: 700
AoE: 60
MP Cost: 1
Cooldown: 4s
Deals [50+INT*1.2] damage.

Royal Flare

Casts for 2.5 seconds before dealing damage and stunning for 3 seconds.
If the enemy gets 1000 units away from Patchouli, Royal Flare goes off immediately, dealing 75% of its damage.
Range: 800
MP Cost: 150
Cooldown: 16/14/12/10
Damage: 75+INT*2/150+INT*3/225+INT*4/300+INT*5

Bar of Ten Kings

will post at home
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 21, 2011, 07:21:38 AM
Hm while Dormio's in class, here's another piece of the picture and it looks quite scary.

Judgement of Ten Kings (Passive)
Passively increases Shikieiki's intelligence and agility and buffs her attack with pure damage.
Every [10 - current guilt]th attack on an enemy girl, Shikieiki will add 1 point of guilt to the enemy girl and deal bonus pure damage.

Level 1: Passively adds +2 int, +1 agi, +4 pure damage. Bonus 60 pure damage and guilt lasts 90s.
Level 2: Passively adds +4 int, +2 agi, +6 pure damage. Bonus 90 pure damage and guilt lasts 135s.
Level 3: Passively adds +6 int, +3 agi, +8 pure damage. Bonus 120 pure damage and guilt lasts 180s.
Level 4: Passively adds +8 int, +4 agi, +10 pure damage. Bonus 150 pure damage and guilt lasts 225s.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on April 21, 2011, 02:44:15 PM
gogo google translate!

v0.962c -> v0.962f
some bug fixes

Reimu passive from 100 > 80 gold per assist
Reimu 3rd skill mp cost 45/60/75/90 -> 50/75/100/125
Patchouli Royal Flare base damage 75/150/225/300 -> 100/150/200/250
Patchouli gem cooldown 15 > 21 sec
Patchouli ult mp cost 20/40/60 -> 25/50/75
Suwhacker passive base damage 50 -> 30

Ran out of time :/
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on April 21, 2011, 09:47:25 PM
Hurrr sorry to ask this of you ApharmdB but can you get the inate skill icons for:
sanae
mokou
tewi
merlin
kaguya

you should teach me how get into the map details or w/e so i dont have to keep bothering you about this  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on April 22, 2011, 01:42:38 AM
So don't place Nazrin Pendulum under Shou Pillars. It crashes the game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on April 22, 2011, 01:45:48 AM
So don't place Nazrin Pendulum under Shou Pillars. It crashes the game.

How ironic that that combination would work so poorly :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on April 22, 2011, 02:27:46 AM
Actually they where on opposing teams.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on April 23, 2011, 08:13:01 PM
Well, all the tables are done and before i start adding notes/stuff i need a couple of questions answered before i start adding something that isnt true  ;)

1. Damage type of reimus ballz -> all of its magic
2. damage type of momiji shield bash -> its magic jerk reverie
3. scaling on yamame spiders
4. who has gay effects with phoenix
5. keine D damage type in exmode
6. hinas damage type with all her skills -> magic
7. yukas damage type with flower stun -> magic
8. who has gay effects with subdoll
9. does everything effect remi while in nightless
10. what nues innate does ITS SO UNKNOWN -> kills a clone or does damage: your base damage
11. damage on neutrals with hatates F
12. tenshis keystone, how its broken
13. i forgot does kogasa spin still ignore omae? -> no
14. mokous self damage on dive, is it life loss or self magic damage. it goes through invulnerability so idk -> magic damage can be reduced but not negated
15. does pressing S in middle of yuyuko channeling not cause cool down? -> no cd yo
16. can  wriggles swarm die while wriggle is alive? ive seen it happen before but who knows.... -> yes they can
17. also with wriggles swarm, if they dont return to her will they not heal? -> no return means no heal
18. gugnir is pure damage right? -> yes
19. reisen slow, is it really a orb idk i havent really tried putting frog/watermelon on -> its an orb
20. what does stop china ult, so many changes to it  :X
21. damage return on merlin ult -> just plain old returns damage not a damage type or life loss
22. iiw really cause 100% cleave chance for komachi passive? -> no
23. damage of sakuya knives -> base is magic
24. what about crashing the game with nazrin/shou?
25. pressing S in middle of youmu ult stop it? -> no
26. nazrin pendulum damage -> magic
27. +damage type on reisens passive -> magic
28. damage cap on kisume ult?
29. name of katana
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Reverie on April 23, 2011, 08:17:52 PM
2.physical
14.self magic
 
the rest is....
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on April 23, 2011, 08:39:11 PM
9. does everything effect remi while in nightless
We don't need. Needs extensive re-testing.

18. gugnir is pure damage right?
I hope that is a joke question.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on April 23, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
also 33,300 somalia shillings to ever can answer all those in one post  :smug:

zimbabwe just doesnt work
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on April 23, 2011, 09:10:39 PM
also 376 zimbabwe dollars to ever can answer all those in one post  :smug:

You're missing a few zeroes bro.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Messiah on April 24, 2011, 12:12:06 AM
25- Youmu ult isn't stoppable by S button.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Hero999 on April 24, 2011, 03:15:04 AM
3) the 1st number increases with str, i think the ratio is somewhere about 5 str to increase 1, agi increases the %, and the rate to increase is like 40agi to 9% so its somewhere around 4.5 agi per %...
4) That depends, on what u mean by *gay* effects,
China > stun skill stacks with phoenix in which the phoenix dmg can stun if it hits.
Remilia > the dmg stacks with LS and help dmg with aoe and nightless
well yah it depends
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: shadowbringer on April 24, 2011, 03:46:58 AM
Well, all the tables are done and before i start adding notes/stuff i need a couple of questions answered before i start adding something that isnt true  ;)

8. who has gay effects with subdoll
10. what nues innate does ITS SO UNKNOWN
12. tenshis keystone, how its broken
19. reisen slow, is it really a orb idk i havent really tried putting frog/watermelon on
20. what does stop china ult, so many changes to it  :X

8. Byakuren seemed to have the damage from ult on her clone (not sure about the lifestealing), dunno about the current version
10. besides making clones disappear, I don't know
12. besides people stacking str food on her, I don't know
19. not sure, but that would be a reason why I wouldn't get Katana on her (not sure if Katana also stopped working with clones).. also I'm not sure if High-tech camera is not an orb-effect, or it's not doing its job while Reisen's using it (if it happens to be an orb effect, then Reisen loses her slowing, or she doesn't do the bonus damage..)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on April 24, 2011, 04:54:12 AM
shadow katana and camera isnt an orb they can stack with frog and watermelon, and yes katana doesnt work on her clones
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on April 24, 2011, 05:16:27 AM
reisen's F counts as orb i try to use IIW on her and my F didn't come out at all
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Kylesky on April 25, 2011, 02:14:53 PM
Hi, uhh... me and a friend of mine started playing DotS recently and we were wondering when the usual times of activity were? Well since DotS is a lot funner with other people and the AI doesn't necessarily "hone your skills" :V

Oh yeah... most of you guys will probably not know who the hell I am... so... kylesky from RaNGE here... I rarely go to any other forums except for frontpage headlines, so yeah... it's kinda my first time posting here :ohdear:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on April 25, 2011, 02:32:44 PM
Just lurk the IRC channel and hope that you can catch a game starting since we have people from almost all the timezones now.

You're much more likely to see a game during weekends and holidays because we have school/work/whatever.

Oh, and hi, nice to see another DotS player. :)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Kylesky on April 25, 2011, 02:48:27 PM
Thanks :D I guess I'll just start tomorrow cause it's getting late here...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on April 25, 2011, 04:25:22 PM
all that remains and the one that are answerable, doubt we can actually figure out why the cd on tenshi key stone is borked


3. scaling on yamame spiders
4. who has gay effects with phoenix
 -china
 -shou
 -remi(idk if i should add this)
 -yamame
8. who has gay effects with subdoll
 -wriggle
 -yuugi
 -byak
 -iku
11. damage on neutrals with hatates F
28. damage cap on kisume ult?
29. name of katana

also im thinking kisume ult is actually physical damage but id probably have to test this first
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on April 28, 2011, 09:23:25 AM
Tested out Remilia with Dormio and Rizock, following interesting results were detected and updated on wiki.

Nightless:
- No longer resistant vs GHGM, Minamitsu flush and anchor pull.
- However, the skill STILL works while under the effect. i.e: if Remi got yukkuri'd while in Nightless mode, you won't see the radiating charisma but you get damaged. Same goes for Flush.
- Nightless is NOT turned off if hit by GHGM, anchor pull or magician hat
- Nightless IS turned off AFTER flush effect ended

Remilia's vampirism passive:
- Works even for moderators. If the moderators are in range of Remilia they will additional lifesteal for her. Aprox 10~14 HP stolen per moderator strike.
- Works even for tentacles, but the damage output is so bad, you hardly notice it.

TL DR; Remilia is a bitch.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on April 28, 2011, 04:29:39 PM
So we (Bystander and I) just tested - as of v0.962j, placing Nazrin's pendulum under Shou's pillars (one, or both) doesn't crash the game anymore.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on May 02, 2011, 05:29:57 PM
Quote
[19:27:18] <Helepolis> let me first put on some cloths
[19:27:24] <Pesco> no
[19:27:25] <Loolicon> naked Hele/
[19:27:25] <DrRawr> no
[19:27:26] <DrRawr> play naked
[19:27:26] <Helepolis> i just got out of shower =.=
[19:27:26] <Loolicon> pics or fake
[19:27:28] <Pesco> get on ts while naked
[19:27:33] <DrRawr> :V
[19:27:33] <Helepolis> k
[19:27:45] <Pesco> i wanna hear the sound of Hele's boobs
[19:27:55] <DrRawr> xD
[19:27:55] <Bypander> or his gungnir
[19:28:03] <Thanuris> gay
[19:28:05] <Bypander> real men don't wear pants during dots
[19:28:11] <Pesco> teaspit.jpg
[19:28:24] <Thanuris> well i hope that you aren't a real man :v
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 02, 2011, 10:04:25 PM
Re: Updates

Gddmt devs.
Why must the map always be released whilst I sleep?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 10, 2011, 06:39:53 AM
If you are going either left or right lane and pull the mid lane... DONT! yea thats it  :fail:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 10, 2011, 06:55:03 AM
I usually play v0.961d simply for the improved AI. I really want to play as Yukari but, even after reading all the old thread posts about how to play as her, I just can't pull off a win. From what I could understand from those posts, I basically have to stockpile on friendly creeps early game which I'm then going to use for ganking enemy heroes once I get the proper skills. But my problem is that I provide such incredibly low damage contribution during the early game that my bases are pretty much overrun by the time I finally get my skills right.

Could someone give some hints to help me so I'm not being comepletely helpless during the early game?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 10, 2011, 07:05:02 AM
usually the best thing you can do is not play the ai and play with us :V. you'll get more experience in actual games and get better. i guess the only real contribution of the ai maps are just to help you learn about the skills and items, but just a quick look through on the wiki does that too.

for yukari as the game goes on her damage gets lower, but the fact that she provides a stun every 4 seconds and can gap people away is what shes great at. but i guess a usual solo gank as yukari involves gapping enemy hero away and then using her mass drop to deal as much damage as possible. that works most of the time early game but later on its best not to use mass drops and just use her single drop.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on May 10, 2011, 07:47:53 AM
Yukari has three fairly different stages at all game points.

Early game/laning phase=Denying, a character that either keeps the enemy hero farther away than the exp range of creeps or constantly denies own creeps.  In Yukari's case, gapping them away.  Yukari has it easy since on top of gapping, she can choose to deny further(Really giving the enemy slim pickings) or gather up gold of her own.  She has high base damage and high int, so she can last hit well with the right starting items.

Mid game=Ganker/nuker.  You get a nice little stockpile at this point and your teleport and gapping skill should be adequate enough for you to start moving around and sneaking behind people in their own lanes for easy kills.

Late game=pusher/support.  By now Yukari's lack of damage is really noticeable, but her gapping skill is now such a fast cooldown you can stockpile enough creeps for a short fight, amass a small army for when you succeed, and gap away dangerous enemy heroes or saving ally heroes from a super skill(Omae doesn't even do damage if in gap).  Dropping creeps also has a large range so use that to pester and weaken them.


... Actually this post gave me a very good idea on a Yukari item build, I'll have to test it sometime.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 10, 2011, 09:48:21 AM
Quote
Mid game=Ganker/nuker.  You get a nice little stockpile at this point and your teleport and gapping skill should be adequate enough for you to start moving around and sneaking behind people in their own lanes for easy kills

I'm trying to work on that one actuallly. I just did another game a few hours ago and decided to screw it with the stockpiling and simply cause group stuns constantly during early game until my creeps finally dominate my side of the map. It worked, surprisingly. Though, as expected, I started my mid game with a depressing lack of ganking ammo. I'm hoping that giving a lot of focus on reducing my gap cooldown as soon as possible and slightly holding back on the single drops might help with the problem.

Oh and I also got my very first win as Yukari with that game. Yey!....I literally Forrest Gumped my way through that one though so I'm hardly pleased by it. :V

Quote
... Actually this post gave me a very good idea on a Yukari item build, I'll have to test it sometime.

Please do share it when you have the time. Being a complete noob, I simply listed down the biggest MP regen items I could find. It made sense at the time though since I'm basically spamming my gaps majority of the game and I'm not gonna lie at how easier things get once the yagokoro doll gets pulled out.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 10, 2011, 09:55:30 AM
With the new Yukari, I'm not sure how much of the "mid-game ganker" still applies.
I've yet to play the new Yukari so I don't know yet, but it looks kind of eh...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 10, 2011, 12:57:28 PM
With the new Yukari, I'm not sure how much of the "mid-game ganker" still applies.
I've yet to play the new Yukari so I don't know yet, but it looks kind of eh...

After playing my copy of the old english version again, I could easily see what you mean. She clearly had better uses back then. Now, Barrier is gone (now I know why those old posts kept mentioning a "barrier") and multi-drop is severely gimped. So yeah, compared to back then, I'd say she IS pretty much eh...... :(
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on May 10, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
While she certainly lost a big role in what she does as support, the basics are still there at least.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 11, 2011, 02:06:31 AM
Things you shouldnt do to genji, else he gets stuck:

1. use yamame web on him
2. yukari teleport him
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on May 11, 2011, 03:08:39 AM
Things you shouldnt do to genji, else he gets stuck:

1. use yamame web on him
2. yukari teleport him

These only apply if there isn't anything to immediately get his head back in the game.  Like Koishi, he will do nothing unless there is an immediate target.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 11, 2011, 09:58:53 AM
yea but becomeing invisable/blinking/teleporting/killing everything will just get him to stop again  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on May 11, 2011, 10:46:14 AM
Tenshi quake Genji's path and he begins walking back to base. Quake its path again and he will return normal :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 14, 2011, 03:59:45 AM
Just by looking at the map alone, I notice that Moriya has more towers than Hakurei. I was wondering if Hakurei has some other unique feature to counter this and are the characters specifically designed for the factions they are in?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 14, 2011, 04:49:06 AM
actually that extra tower moriya has, is part of a pair (the final tower next to shrine), moriyas final towers have bash and can attack 2 different targets(two towers :V), while hakurei final tower gets a large aoe damage and does more damage and has a larger attack range.

But regular towers for moriya has a speed boost for a short time. Hakurei regular towers have a self heal and a +armour aura for a short time.

Also about the character part, each girls skills tries to match up with the girls themselves. But the developers don't seem to have balance in mind sometimes when creating these skills  :getdown:

Want a closer loook: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Defence_of_The_Shrines
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 14, 2011, 06:15:22 AM
actually that extra tower moriya has, is part of a pair (the final tower next to shrine), moriyas final towers have bash and can attack 2 different targets(two towers :V), while hakurei final tower gets a large aoe damage and does more damage and has a larger attack range.

But regular towers for moriya has a speed boost for a short time. Hakurei regular towers have a self heal and a +armour aura for a short time.

Also about the character part, each girls skills tries to match up with the girls themselves. But the developers don't seem to have balance in mind sometimes when creating these skills  :getdown:

Want a closer loook: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Defence_of_The_Shrines
Ah now I get it. Thanks.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on May 14, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
All pick is the default game mode for the map when red AFK's to long (AS THEY COMMONLY DO FOR US) so even if they had skills tailored to being on one side then it would mean nothing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on May 15, 2011, 08:39:36 AM
Wow....
I've managed to beat 4 insane AI's alone
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on May 15, 2011, 02:08:45 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong.. But isn't it the same AI level regardless of what the lobby level says..

Oh BTW I'm Night4ce.. I'm new here.. Fan of Touhou for a few years now and have been playing DotS with the DS group for about 9 months now.. I heard of a more active group here and I decided to stick my nose in some places! XP I hope you guys don't bite.

p.s. Ack... blue text doesn't show well.. lol
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 15, 2011, 02:47:43 PM
AI are weak regardless of what you're playing.
Also, welcome. :)
And we don't bite for the most part anyway.

If you want to get into games with us, just lurk our IRC and hope that a game gets organized while you're around.
We just play whenever enough people want to. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on May 15, 2011, 03:45:58 PM
lol night4ce you decided to play in here too?
also beware of D2 virus
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 15, 2011, 09:56:35 PM
Just saying since it doesn't appear to be anywhere, High-Tech Camera is banned lol. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on May 15, 2011, 10:25:08 PM
Even if you're facing dumb AI's, battling 4 of them is hard they will start hammering at your tower at the start of the game and 4 of them are on the middle lane, while having myon balloon, hj bug, and llama doll in their inventory. If you can prevent less than 3 towers destroyed until you reached about lv14, you can turn the tides around because it's very easy to troll them, different from the improved AI in v0961d. They just start to run when I used Shizuha's ult (the best ult to use against the old AIs), but I still can wil.

I'm gonna practice more in this new map.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on May 15, 2011, 10:25:43 PM
The ultimate test on the improved AI map is 1 on 2 against Flandre and Shiki (I think)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 16, 2011, 11:17:43 AM
Won't the difficulty in AI games still be dependent on whatever girl you and the AIs are using whether its the Improved AI map or not? (Though I'll have to admit that not using the improved AI map always results in some supremely retarded games)

Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong.. But isn't it the same AI level regardless of what the lobby level says..

I kind of want some confirmation on this too actually. Does it also differentiate AI difficulty through the amount of xp/gold bonuses they get like the dota AI map?


Anyway. While sifting through the girl roster, Kaguya also came to mind. Looking at the wiki article gave me the first impression that she's another pure support character. Until I tried her out, that is. Maybe it's just me being new to the game that I can only see the most obvious tactics but...if I were to stock her up with MP regen items, aren't I basically spamming rainbow danmaku throughout the entire game?

I'm considering on using her more often though if only because of her  :derp: face. XD

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 16, 2011, 12:28:34 PM
Well yea either spamming mp regen or getting higher mp could work. But mpst of the agility heros can put out so much dps and with the katana(mp burn) kaguya wont stand a chance too long. Also she spawns with less hp if she dies again within 10seconds. But yea she is pure support and her pillars are there to tell melee to fuck off :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on May 16, 2011, 01:08:38 PM
Dumb AI Komachi uses ult to kill creeps and only creeps.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: mark2000 on May 16, 2011, 02:00:23 PM
Well yea either spamming mp regen or getting higher mp could work. But mpst of the agility heros can put out so much dps and with the katana(mp burn) kaguya wont stand a chance too long. Also she spawns with less hp if she dies again within 10seconds. But yea she is pure support and her pillars are there to tell melee to fuck off :V

Oh no. I'm not saying like she'll make a good front liner but, man, she has one heck of an easy time literally wiping out hordes of creeps for a pure support character. It's something I did not expect from that type of hero class.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 16, 2011, 02:09:40 PM
Ah i see but iirc at around creep level 15~20 level creep wave you either have to hit with almost all pillars else you wont kill anything. But yea she does have a powerful nuke
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on May 17, 2011, 12:49:11 AM
Well, if her F skill is changed to a non-worthless one unlike the current one, she can stand a chance against the other girls
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on May 17, 2011, 03:59:30 AM
Oh no. I'm not saying like she'll make a good front liner but, man, she has one heck of an easy time literally wiping out hordes of creeps for a pure support character. It's something I did not expect from that type of hero class.
err wiping creeps really fast isn't really amazing for pure support char (i'm looking at you reimu and letty) also kaguya isn't a pure support int (especially since that ressurection uber nerf)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on May 17, 2011, 07:49:44 AM
Forgive me for being noobish... But what's the IRC? What software do ya'll use to connect? I do wanna play some of ya'll.. What time is best to be on to get a decent game in?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on May 17, 2011, 08:05:10 AM
Use the webchat link in the Genji's House Rules thread seeing as you don't know IRC and liekly don't have a client to connect with.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on May 17, 2011, 08:53:00 AM
Forgive me for being noobish... But what's the IRC? What software do ya'll use to connect? I do wanna play some of ya'll.. What time is best to be on to get a decent game in?
To access the IRC, type webchat.ppirc.net in your browser. When you get there, type your nickname in the nickname box and #dots-meido in the channels box.

You're ready to chat and play :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on May 17, 2011, 09:38:04 AM
Thanks! I'll be getting some sleep now.. I'll be on in about 27 hours..

*P.S. Gonna play 1 game then head to sleep*
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on May 21, 2011, 06:09:06 AM
Sooooo should we switch over to wc3 1.26seeing as its safe and...


Quote from: 'Lucky Charat'
let's see...

I believe you guys have 962p?

Also, most of us are using the Warcraft 3 1.26 patch now, update it as it solves some graphic lag issues.


Theres no point in not updating with no problems occur, and you can use a version switcher (which aph provided) if you want to use a older version for some other reasons
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on May 21, 2011, 11:48:03 AM
Just realized after updating the bot's wc3 files that it can host both 1.24e and 1.26a games, so feel free to switch over whenever. It doesn't totally get rid of fps lag - that's still dependent on your hardware and what you've set your graphics details to in wc3's settings, but it's a heck lot better. Okuu's ult no longer lags my mouse cursor after the explosion for example.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on May 22, 2011, 11:07:06 PM
Sweet.. I won't be lagging like hell froze over.. Now I can nuke without the recoil of being killed in the after effect.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on May 24, 2011, 01:57:23 AM
As everyone may or may not have realized by now, version 1.26a of Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne is now standard for Genji's Battle Arena.

For the update files, refer to ApharmdB's post in the update thread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg636503.html#msg636503).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Antorory on May 27, 2011, 10:32:14 PM
Testing 1..2..3 ok   :3
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on May 30, 2011, 02:58:06 PM
Apparently there's a new guy who's wanting to join us...
Welcome :V

For Warcraft v1.26b patch, I already downloaded it from other sites and it doesn't seem to work.
I hope ApharmdB's link works, I'll download it tomorrow...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on May 30, 2011, 04:23:44 PM
The key to doing anything is following instructions. Just do exactly as Aph says and it'll work.

On that note, I arranged for Aph to get Spechul for his work in giving us all these nifty wc3 features.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on May 30, 2011, 07:35:26 PM
hi
i have a question about dots because when i play the new versions of dots  wc3 closes itself after 30-40 minutes without any message and i dont know how i can fix it.
sorry for my bad english
and when i have post in the wrong forum also sorry   ( i searched in, help me erin but i did not find a thing)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on May 31, 2011, 12:34:56 AM
try to change the sound provider settings?got that problem long time ago and it works
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on May 31, 2011, 04:52:32 PM
thank you for the fast answer.  i will try this out and hope it works.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on May 31, 2011, 07:38:44 PM
Translations of skills

First up, Chen.

Innate
Direction Sign "Kimontonkou"
When Chen receives physical damage, the skill lowers all damage by 18.


D
Rolling Sign "Rolling Ball"
Roll towards the targeted location.

Cast range: 300/400/500/600
Mana cost: 40
Cooldown: 3.2

F
Yin Yang "Large Pentagram Crest"
Does magic damage to the targeted unit.
After 3.0s, does magic damage again and curses the target.
If the target casts any spell under the curse, the target will be stunned.

Cast range: 500
Mana cost: 100
Cooldown: 9

Level 1: Does 50 magic damage. The curse lasts for 0.8s.
Level 2: Does 75 magic damage. The curse lasts for 1.2s.
Level 3: Does 100 magic damage. The curse lasts for 1.6s.
Level 4: Does 125 magic damage. The curse lasts for 2.0s.

R
Heaven Sign "Immortal Sage's Rumbling" (Passive)
Everytime a skill is cast or ended, there is a 25% chance to create an earthquake nearby that does magic damage to enemies and reduces their attack and movement speed for a duration of 1.50s. This only works with Chen's active skills.

Area of effect: 250

Level 1: Does 75 magic damage and lowers attack and movement speed by 15%.
Level 2: Does 100 magic damage and lowers attack and movement speed by 20%.
Level 3: Does 125 magic damage and lowers attack and movement speed by 25%.
Level 4: Does 150 magic damage and lowers attack and movement speed by 30%.

W
Wizard Sign "Incarnate Immortal Sage"
Passively increases attack damage. Upon casting, every time Chen attacks an enemy girl, Chen's attack damage increases. The added attack damage lasts until Chen does not attack an enemy girl for 6s.

Level 1 - Increases attack damage by 30. Every attack on an enemy girl increases attack damage by 20.
Level 2 - Increases attack damage by 45. Every attack on an enemy girl increases attack damage by 30.
Level 3 - Increases attack damage by 60. Every attack on an enemy girl increases attack damage by 40.


Next up, Lyrica.


W
Key Ghost "Rhythmic Keyboard Piece - First Movement"
Causes a targeted ally to be invulnerable to all damage for the duration of the skill.

Cast range: 350
Mana cost: 150/200/250
Cooldown: 120/105/90s

Level 1 - Lasts 5s.
Level 2 - Lasts 6s.
Level 3 - Lasts 7s.

R
Gensokyo's Phantasmal Music
Lyrica plays a beautiful tune that mesmerizes all enemies in the area, lowering their stats.

Area of effect: 900

Level 1 - Lowers enemies' stats by 2 points.
Level 2 - Lowers enemies' stats by 4 points.
Level 3 - Lowers enemies' stats by 6 points.
Level 4 - Lowers enemies' stats by 8 points.

F
Dark Keys "Soul Stirring Music"
Targets an ally. Within the next 8 seconds, the next time the targeted ally attacks an enemy girl or is attacked by an enemy girl, causes the enemy girl takes additional magic damage and lowers the enemy girl's movement and attack speed by 35%.

Cast range: 750
Mana cost: 90
Cooldown: 12

Level 1 - Does 80 magic damage. Slow effect lasts for 1.00s.
Level 1 - Does 120 magic damage. Slow effect lasts for 1.50s.
Level 1 - Does 160 magic damage. Slow effect lasts for 2.00s.
Level 1 - Does 200 magic damage. Slow effect lasts for 2.50s.

D
Key Ghost "Bosendorfer"
Lyrica materializes at the targeted location, causing her allies nearby the location to recover health.

Cast range: 600
Area of effect: 250
Mana cost: 90
Cooldown: 18/15/12/9

Level 1 - Recovers 100 hp.
Level 2 - Recovers 150 hp.
Level 3 - Recovers 200 hp.
Level 4 - Recovers 250 hp.



Finally, Ran.


D
Shikigami's Radiance "Charming Siege from All Sides"
Places a siege flag at the targeted location. Allies nearby receive a bonus to attack speed while enemies nearby receive an attack speed penalty. The flag is invulnerable and only one flag can be placed at any time. New flags will replace old ones.

If Ran casts the skill on a flag, she will swap locations with the flag.

Cast range: 800
Area of effect: 600
Mana cost: 75
Flag cooldown: 0s
Location swap cooldown: 15/13/11/9s

Level 1 - 10% attack speed bonus/penalty.
Level 2 - 16% attack speed bonus/penalty.
Level 3 - 22% attack speed bonus/penalty.
Level 4 - 28% attack speed bonus/penalty.

(Due to a bug, this skill currently cannot be leveled up past level 1.)

Innate
Shikigami's Shot "Unilateral Contact"
Passively grants Ran 1s of invulnerability every 25s.

Stealth change to Ran's ultimate - it now lasts for 9 seconds only. Mana cost is 200/300/400, cooldown is 100s. Armour bonus is 20/30/40 and hp regen bonus is 40/60/80.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on May 31, 2011, 08:14:55 PM
what is the shrinemaiden battelnet ( cant follow the link ) and does the fontcraft only shows the chinese characters or run the maps better with it
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on May 31, 2011, 08:27:45 PM
also lyrica's innate gives 65 bonus damage on next attack after 4 normal attacks

oh also if chen cast F on someone and after 3.0 s the target doesn't visible, it doesn't stun only deals damage
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on May 31, 2011, 09:05:29 PM
what is the shrinemaiden battelnet ( cant follow the link ) and does the fontcraft only shows the chinese characters or run the maps better with it

This link? http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.msg515830.html#msg515830

I don't think there's any other way to log in to the MotK bnet server really, since you need to change the gateway to do so. Fontcraft simply enables your copy of WC3 to display chinese characters. You can still run the map without using Fontcraft, but you will not see the chinese characters at all which makes the map a little jarring to play.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 01, 2011, 08:40:11 PM
This link? http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.msg515830.html#msg515830

I don't think there's any other way to log in to the MotK bnet server really, since you need to change the gateway to do so. Fontcraft simply enables your copy of WC3 to display chinese characters. You can still run the map without using Fontcraft, but you will not see the chinese characters at all which makes the map a little jarring to play.

Thank you.  And the MotK bnet server is needet to play dots with someone of you?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2011, 09:56:38 PM
Yes, we only play using the bnet server, so yeah.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: TripleDenial on June 02, 2011, 10:11:59 AM
Tell me pls, what is active effect of Dragon Star ?!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 02, 2011, 10:14:24 AM
It gives you four seconds of status immunity, excluding buffs.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: TripleDenial on June 02, 2011, 10:16:25 AM
Does it mean, I may be stunned but will not recieve dmg during this time?
Does this immunity affect physical attacks?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 02, 2011, 10:18:38 AM
No, once you activate it, status effects such as stuns and sleeps will not affect you.
It does not block any damage.
I haven't tested it thoroughly but I assume that if you have it active whilst getting hit by something like Storm Bolt, you'd take damage but not get stunned.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: TripleDenial on June 02, 2011, 10:20:57 AM
Thx!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 02, 2011, 11:16:05 AM
Finally found the thread that I've been looking for.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 02, 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Yes, we only play using the bnet server, so yeah.
Thx
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 02, 2011, 01:36:54 PM
Hm. This is probably useless for now, but EX-Rumia...

Innate
Darkness "Dark Cycle"
Grants EX-Rumia 10% evasion rate and an additional 10% magic damage resistance.

D
Dark Faith "Infernal Slice"
Instantly teleports to the targeted location and causes damage to units in the immediate vicinity.

Cast range: 600
Mana cost: 65
Cooldown: 7/6/5/4s

Level 1: Does 120 magic damage.
Level 2: Does 160 magic damage.
Level 3: Does 200 magic damage.
Level 4: Does 240 magic damage.


F
Dark Sleep "Dark Rest"
Causes EX-Rumia's surroundings to darken while she sleeps for 4s and recovers a large amount of hp. EX-Rumia is invulnerable for the duration of the spell.

Mana cost: 100
Cooldown: 25s

Level 1: Recovers 125hp.
Level 2: Recovers 200hp.
Level 3: Recovers 275hp.
Level 4: Recovers 350hp.

R
Midnight "Horrible Night"
Passively increases attack damage and grants bonus damage during the night.

Level 1: Adds 34 damage and an additional 14% damage during the night.
Level 2: Adds 51 damage and an additional 21% damage during the night.
Level 3: Adds 68 damage and an additional 28% damage during the night.
Level 4: Adds 85 damage and an additional 35% damage during the night.

W
I See Only Darkness
EX-Rumia's attacks have a chance of causing darkness and killing her target.

Level 1: For every 1.0% of hp that the target is missing, EX-Rumia has a 0.12% chance of killing her target on attack.
Level 2: For every 1.0% of hp that the target is missing, EX-Rumia has a 0.15% chance of killing her target on attack.
Level 3: For every 1.0% of hp that the target is missing, EX-Rumia has a 0.18% chance of killing her target on attack.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 02, 2011, 01:54:13 PM
I'm add this to the wiki right?
 :trollface:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 02, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
Someone's gotta edit them item list. :|
I can't read Chinese text/font.

EDIT: Also; Added the v0.965c Download Link to the wiki since it only has v0.954b.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 02, 2011, 03:05:34 PM
Items should be updated unless im missing something?

Oh actually i see you're looking at the wikia, yea we stopped editing that one long ago

please look at this one: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 02, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
Items should be updated unless im missing something?

Oh actually i see you're looking at the wikia, yea we stopped editing that one long ago

please look at this one: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines)
Nobody told me anything about this, I got left behind. <_<
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 02, 2011, 07:14:55 PM
By Great Scythe of Shinigami, The blade that pierces truth and HI-tech Camera stands (does not stack with similar types) Does that mean any passive skill of the heroes or other items?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 02, 2011, 07:38:52 PM
No one has anything similar to those abilities so can't tell, but having multiple of the same item wont increase the effects for them. So unless you want them for stats no point in buying multiples of them.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 02, 2011, 07:55:43 PM
No one has anything similar to those abilities so can't tell, but having multiple of the same item wont increase the effects for them. So unless you want them for stats no point in buying multiples of them.
thx   i thougt Enlightened Sword "Rise from Delusion" (passive) and The blade that pierces truth would not stack while both reduces stats (1. armor 2. mana ) the similar part confused me^^
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 03, 2011, 12:04:17 PM
Base chance of getting Ex-Rumia: 1/5000
People who have effect on Ex-Rumia chance:
Rumia = 0
Yukari = .5
Tewi = .5
Hina = 2
Sakuya = .85
Koa = .85
Patchy = .85
China = .85
Flan = .85
Remi = .85
Cirno = 0.6375
Okuu = .75
Wriggle = .75
Mystia = .75

Having Rumia makes it so Ex-Rumia unobtainable, Hina trolls and makes it harder to select her.
Example of finding your chance to get Ex-Rumia
5000*.5(Yukari) = 2500
2500*.5(Tewi) = 1250
1250*.6375(Cirno) = 796.875

So if your team wants Ex-Rumia your best chance of getting her would be 1/796.875  :toot:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 03, 2011, 09:42:01 PM
is the mokou guide still current and are there any guides for youmu and utsuho?
where is ex-rumia in dots? can you find her on the map with a hero?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 03, 2011, 09:44:15 PM
No you can only get her through random, thats why i listed the chance to get her in my previous post

also no major changes to mokou, so the guide is still usable, for youmu and okuu no guides but they arent too hard to figure out ;)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 03, 2011, 09:51:11 PM
No you can only get her through random, thats why i listed the chance to get her in my previous post

also no major changes to mokou, so the guide is still usable, for youmu and okuu no guides but they arent too hard to figure out ;)
thx
to get ex rumia i must took random and when the teammates took the heros that you post gave you a higher chance to get her.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 03, 2011, 09:53:57 PM
yea they all increase the chance of getting her except for hina who makes it harder to get ex rumia, and rumia makes it impossible to get exrumia. But still best out comes is about 1/250~
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 03, 2011, 10:01:29 PM
its maybe a stupid question has anyone ever played with ex rumia with this small chance to get her
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 03, 2011, 10:02:41 PM
IIRC some guy got her once on the day the map came out.
I haven't even had the time to play a game on 0.965c yet. orz
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 03, 2011, 10:03:10 PM
no havent been able to play her yet, and i dont think anyone here has played her yet
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 05, 2011, 12:27:07 AM
zzzz best guesses on tenshi passives

Drizzle(mp regen) - increases mp of "Sword of Worry and Joy" by 5
Scarlet Mist(lifesteal) - increases mp gain of "Sword of Worry and Joy" by 5
River Mist(invisable) - increases stun of  "Sword of the Unyielding Soil" by 1 second
East Asian Rain(acid rain) - increase damage of "Scarlet Weather Rhapsody of All Humankind" by 100 damage
Spring Haze(armour) - decreases cool down of "Sword of the Divine Justice" to 240/str
Typhoon(+attack) - increases damage of  "Sword of the Unyielding Soil" by 85
Snow(slow) - increases stun of "Sword of the Divine Justice" by .6 seconds
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 05, 2011, 02:40:58 PM
Ok im done with this, dont bother me to play dots till the same people every game stop picking a hard carry every game. Honestly yea i can counter pick, yea i can counter with items such as iae, ghgm, hsa but having to do this every game takes the fun out it for some im sure. Also for new people to the game this shows just how easy and great these heros are and they themselves will start picking them also causing less fun and more bullshit for the other team. So unless we start handing out bans again, or people learn to actually not to pick hard carries every game im not playing. Ill keep the wiki updated and i may play with a certain few people but seriously this is getting dumb seeing aya/momiji/hatate/(pre-nerf)reisen for the past X games ive played. 
:colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 05, 2011, 06:38:30 PM
Hmm I kinda feel that way more and more often. The best games of DotS I've had happened when neither team had such a hard carry but I see some people only ever play such carries. Maybe that's why I spec more than play these days or prefer playing other maps. It's still fun to poke around the map though. The wild and crazy idea to poach the resources to build a more balanced version of DotS as a game design exercise ever crossed my mind, but there're too many originality and copyright issues to bother with. Bah.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 05, 2011, 07:17:11 PM
unless we start handing out bans again
Hmm sounds a good idea i was one of ppl who "pick hard carry like no tommorow" but now i start picking another heroes
Why people keeps picking the very same girls lol we got 57 girls to choose so why picking the very same girl again and again and again and again
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 05, 2011, 07:22:35 PM
Clearly everyone should go for ExRumia every game from now on :V

So how about a poll for the bannings then? How many options?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 05, 2011, 07:25:13 PM
The ones most of us will agree on is aya,momiji,hatate,youmu,nitori. but other then that everyone else is manageable

Also rather then taking a poll on who to ban we should have a poll on whether we should ban girls
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BlackSparda on June 05, 2011, 09:02:14 PM
i have a question because
i always buy the same items with every hero is that a bad idea when i bought these items with every hero?
Suwako Nice Boat, Devil?s Milk Tooth of Chaos, Myon Balloon, Hakurei Shrine Amulet, Substitution Doll, Llama Doll (Limited Edition Type), 
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: kactaplb on June 05, 2011, 09:46:30 PM
wow thats a very expensive build.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 05, 2011, 09:53:54 PM
i have a question because
i always buy the same items with every hero is that a bad idea when i bought these items with every hero?
Suwako Nice Boat, Devil?s Milk Tooth of Chaos, Myon Balloon, Hakurei Shrine Amulet, Substitution Doll, Llama Doll (Limited Edition Type),
u mean for every agi/some str?because thats a bad item build for int heroes
Myon-i think for agis they don't need myon since their base armor is alr insane
Subdolls-only for some int who lacks escape method or benefits from aspd+int bonus
Rainbaw Llama-isn't necessary not worth the price (sukima and red Llama do better job)
HSA-situational (because HSA can't block ultimate skills)
DMT chaos-isn't necessary but some heroes benefits alot from that item (suika,yuugi,etc)
Niceboat-works best for almost every agi ingame
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 05, 2011, 10:25:05 PM
Yeah, I miss when we played for fun, not to win.
Because some of the newer people will do pretty much anything to win.
Which is really lame.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 06, 2011, 11:18:22 AM
Didn't think this would fit in the general replays thread, but for those interested in seeing EX-Rumia in action, this is a replay from the chinese forums - http://www.mediafire.com/?6lf84mp8sll1xkw

You'll need to version switch to 1.24e and put your DotS map in the \maps\td folder to view the replay.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 06, 2011, 04:20:18 PM
Yeah, I miss when we played for fun, not to win.
I always play for fun, dunno about the others.
Mino FTW.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 07, 2011, 02:24:34 PM
Hmm sounds a good idea i was one of ppl who "pick hard carry like no tommorow" but now i start picking another heroes
Why people keeps picking the very same girls lol we got 57 girls to choose so why picking the very same girl again and again and again and again

It's the way games are. Back in CS, everyone played de_dust and de_dust2 like it was going out of style the next day or something, despite other maps being a lot more interesting. Some heroes are just easier to figure out and use than the others. Although it's not a bad idea for someone new to the game to stick to one hero for a while too... I probably haven't tried half the heroes myself. Maybe it's due to the memories of playing a melee squishy hero back when I had 3-5 seconds of lag... :P
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 07, 2011, 06:14:39 PM
i think its cool that aph plays meiling. she's so attractive she deserves to be picked every game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 07, 2011, 08:59:12 PM
This is why I typically random or if the other team is a jerk team(or if I feel jerk), counterpick.  Fun>Winning
Quote from: ApharmdB
i think its cool that aph plays meiling

I've done carry with China before though.  China against carries which are usually squishy tends to have China winning if you do her right and a bit of luck.

I beat up a freaking Nazrin with her shields up as China.  Rar!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on June 07, 2011, 10:04:50 PM
I beat up a freaking Nazrin with her shields up as China.  Rar!

Was that me? I think that was me. I was like WHY IS SHE WINNING D:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2011, 10:06:41 PM
KICK, PUNCH! IT'S ALL IN THE MIND! :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 07, 2011, 10:52:13 PM
This is why I typically random or if the other team is a jerk team(or if I feel jerk), counterpick.  Fun>Winning
I've done carry with China before though.  China against carries which are usually squishy tends to have China winning if you do her right and a bit of luck.

I beat up a freaking Nazrin with her shields up as China.  Rar!

Wut? How was that my quote? :P China's pretty fun to play, but she's a bit like canon Youmu - really quite powerful but surrounded by even more overpowered jerks. The way I see it, she's pretty dangerous if she gets lucky with her F skill since it ignores armour (i.e. screw nazrin's shield). But if you get games where you can count on one hand the number of times her bash procs.... :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 08, 2011, 08:31:28 AM
Wut? How was that my quote?

I don't do transitions very well.  In a different forum, I started talking about sharks when the topic was about MMO skinner boxes.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 08, 2011, 09:04:37 PM
Wut? How was that my quote? :P China's pretty fun to play, but she's a bit like canon Youmu - really quite powerful but surrounded by even more overpowered jerks. The way I see it, she's pretty dangerous if she gets lucky with her F skill since it ignores armour (i.e. screw nazrin's shield). But if you get games where you can count on one hand the number of times her bash procs.... :V
for me before her nerf (when spin has hawt AoE etc etc) shes a beast.But they nerf semi-OP heroes and buff obv gayOP ones (momigay and ayagay everyone?) i alr almost give up on playing her (from replay thread you can see my meiling went ghgm build and for me its her core LOL)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 09, 2011, 04:07:53 PM
true meiling goes double bra, to support her bountiful bust during combat.
no other items needed.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 09, 2011, 04:09:27 PM
What about the dragon star   :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on June 09, 2011, 06:10:08 PM
Anyone have experience with Lyrica yet? She looks really fun.

I think Ran and Chen were more interesting when they were together though D:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 10, 2011, 12:08:13 AM
true meiling goes double bra, to support her bountiful bust during combat.
no other items needed.
oh u
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 10, 2011, 04:52:00 AM
Anyone have experience with Lyrica yet? She looks really fun.

I think Ran and Chen were more interesting when they were together though D:


lyrica is hella boss.
she's a really good support hero and also has a very strong lane presence. also her nuke combos well with a lot of things, especially right click spikers like nitori.


but that d skill is so good.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 10, 2011, 07:11:17 AM
Anyone have experience with Lyrica yet? She looks really fun.

I think Ran and Chen were more interesting when they were together though D:
lyrica=really cool INT support hero but when devs made her, they went drunk mode and put AGI as her primary attribute so yea
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 10, 2011, 10:16:26 AM
The poll is stupidly long. Gonna remove the girls with 0 votes every once in a while until we got the main hated list of carries.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 11:18:56 AM
lol pesco i just meant for a y/n poll  :yukkuri:

also lol ex-rumia
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2011, 12:36:47 PM
<Akiyama_dorMio> just ban all agis, excluding mystia, and rumia
<Akiyama_dorMio> problem solved
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Lunaca on June 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
someone chose to ban eiki
thats sick!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 12:40:37 PM
It cant be as bad as banning reisen  :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on June 10, 2011, 01:47:38 PM
5 votes isn't enough.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 01:55:07 PM
I don't think that tengus are OP. They are very mobile but thats it, they have weak early game (aside from wolves), and they don't  scale very well late game. Also, dont forget that the bash hammer is nerfed. Banning the tengus will make countering invisible girls/ substitution doll even harder.
The real Op girls are okuu, byakuren, yuuka and maybe merlin and suwako. They cant be countered. Okuu deals twice the damage of a nuker with twice the durability and her ultimate is golden. Byak is just op, she has godlike scaling. Yuuka can get only tanky items and still deal super high damage, which also scales into infinity. Suwako can become very tanky, deal good damage and disable like a boss. And Merlin is the ultimate troll.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 10, 2011, 02:06:26 PM
Basher still stuns for 1.0s on melee heros, 0.4s on ranged heros fyi.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 02:16:24 PM
obviously someones bad at this, no death = no down time in farming/exp = more farmed hard agi carry = pick on an int squishy and win. All those things tengus can do easy do to there insane ms/aspd. Saying there stats dont scale well is all retarded  aya gets around 100 agi late game which then her passive stirs shit and causes people to die easily while she laughs away dashing across the map, momiji early -> late game again gains criticals, have invisible wolves go around trolling squishy ints and that 4second stun to pick anyone off laning. Hatate free maphack, max aspd, and pure damage buff, oh look a blink, AND LETS NOT FORGET HER FREE ESCAPE FROM DEATH NO MATTER WHAT. byakuren no doubt has shitty early and mid game and wtf do you mean she scales well? she has a bad attack animation and just to make up for that she has to buy all this aspd. Yuuka yea i admit she can drop towers pretty fast but you know buying an iae makes her pretty useless in any situation, and buying ghgm which is in almost every game allows us to remove any unnecessary clones from the battle field. okuu is lol yea she can have a good early game but that doesnt make her god like. buy zun glasses and a couple kebabs and babysitting ur carry could probably allow you to outfarm her and troll her the rest of the game, or hell take the extra step and buy a green dam and get 6seconds of lol'ing at her. Merlin yet again zun glasses/green dam or hell even a stun allows her ult to do nothing and lets you step away for a couple seconds and then go back in and start killing stuff. About the no counter to invis/subdoll ever buy a tengu/wards? yea they hard counter them pretty well. saying tengus have bad early game doesnt mean anything, if there getting pressured by someone they can always just jungle(which there all good at) and just come out for ganks on the weakest enemy hero. Also katana makes a sad frog.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 04:05:08 PM
And just tower hugging/team pushing makes all tengus useless. They have no utility in team fights. They cant blink out of the game when the other team is pushing. This is supposed to be a team game, right? And I am talking about Merlin's taunt, its just game breaking if used right. Byak has superior scaling.She can get a peach and get some beautiful int items with clickies, and still tank like a boss.  And she brings and aoe stun+flying saucer to team fights.

If tengus get green dam, dragon star or both, your teams agility carry can just destroy them, since tengus have 1-2 skill dedicated to scouting-mobility and not bring much to a real fight.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on June 10, 2011, 04:11:33 PM
Hatate and Momiji have no need for second to destroy things and the main point of using Aya's "Scouting skill" is to get Pure Damage bonuses. Also Momiji has a 3.5 second stun which brings quite a bit to a fight.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 04:41:28 PM
your right they have no support, thats why there hard carrys, that thing thats supposed to kill the enemy team no help yours, comparing a hard carry to a semi carry is dumb. saying its a team game means nothing we dont know the heros and we dont know how experienced they are, but in general game play they can out dps anyone. stats mean nothing tengus use items to kill everything and are able to farm easily, aya is just get agi and her scaling/slow/high proc rate passive will pretty much out dps everyone. your right a farmed byakuren is a dangerous as with ANY OTHER HERO WHO GETS FARMED. merlin taunt is only scary when combo'd with another hero who can abuse it.

Also mid game tower hugging doesnt work, tengus can tower dive and escape if things go wrong.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 04:46:52 PM
Aya's dash= mobility+a little damage
Aya's tornado= real combat skill
Aya's bunbunmaru =real combat skill+scouting/invisible counter
Aya's ultimate=mobility

Hatate's blink= mobility
Hatate's rapid shot=real combat skill (quite a powerful one)
Hatate's spirit photo=real combat skill+scouting/invisible counter (still, 38 damage is not that much)
Hatate's ultimate=troll mobility(nice combat use but very long cooldown)+scouting

Momiji passive=real combat ability
Momiji's wolves= nice combat ability early game (but pretty much useless in team fights)+scouting
Momiji's far sight= pure scouting
Momiji's stun= real combat ability
Momiji's ultimate= real combat ability+mobility (she is not that much mobile compared to other tengus)

Now compare them to some other girls

Nazrin's passive= extra gold (that mouse can get those points hidden under creeps)
Nazrin's rush= little mobility but also low cooldown
Nazrin's passive= real combat skill (much more powerful than attack speed, cause its a different multiplier)
Nazrin's guard pendulum= real combat skill (One of  the most powerful non-ultimate skills, both defensive and offensive)
Nazrin's ultimate=real combat skill+scouting+more gold

Flandre's passive=real combat ability
Flandre's clones=real combat ability
Flandre's lavatein=real combat ability
Flandre's lifesteal=real combat ability
Flandre's ultimate=real combat ability

Also, true damage is not that important when you are attacking squishies.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 05:03:12 PM
Oh i see now that ive proven your other points wrong you changed arguments entirely, in dots mobility is a huge factor and allows more then just "real combat ability": allows escape and chase for kills. both nazrin and flandre have an escape but neither of them are 100%. yet again if you escape you dont lose out on any farming. and saying true damage isnt a factor is yet again dead wrong, girls like reimu or other high armour buffs mean nothing to aya/hatate with there aspd/pure/passive proc. while either flandre and nazrin either have to follow and hope not to get ganked or run away. idk if your trying to compare damage or what but having both high dps and mobility means you can pretty much be anywhere and still get farmed/kills
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 10, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
true damage is always relevant, because any bit of armor will lower your dps elsewise.

the reason why aya is considered so op is because she has high damage, fast scaling, and high mobility. Being mobile means being able to gank more often, and avoid ganks.
Specifically, her rush is extremely long range (2100 at level 4, just level 2 is enough to escape from anything), her F adds a huge amount of damage (it's like +67 pure damage, against a hero that has maybe 7 armor, that's the equivalent of over 100 physical attack), and her R deals spell damage and scales very well with her agility. Her C means she can avoid being slowed while chasing someone, or can escape even if slowed. She carries as hard as she does because she has a lot of additional damage that ignores armor, and has enough mobility to get in out of any situation.

Aya is going to end up farming better than most other carries, as the benefits of a kill don't usually outweigh the detriment of dying, which she can avoid.


But really ero, if you want to discuss this, go on irc. I understand where you're coming from, but you're picturing these girls in some sort of 1v1 deathmatch, rather than the context of a longer game.
Edit: specifically, irc because it's easier to discuss these things on irc then on a forum
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on June 10, 2011, 05:18:51 PM
Obviously I'm the one who voted Eiki, I don't actually expect anyone to ban her, I just fucking hate everything about her. :V

Did getting that crit passive really make Momiji that good? The wolves aren't a deadly threat by themselves and Momiji herself you can see coming, I don't recall ever being in a game where I was scared of her; she can't really burst out of nowhere and fuck you up like some other agi girls. I think Nitori is much worse, if you're at half health she can just fly across the map from anywhere and murder you. Flying is a cute gimmick on Mystia, but Nitori's noclip is just bullshit. Same deal with Aya.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 05:39:01 PM
No, I am behind my words :)
I am proving how useless they are in team fights. Even if they farm safely, get kills and get away with that, they cant unlock the true potential of items they get. If you are annoyed by their farming/tower diving/ganking potential don't play the game by their rules, just push their towers. You can't counter everyone with same strategies, just adept to the situation. And still, the objective of the game is destroying the enemy shrine, and you cant achieve this without pushing.

Lets say opposing aya is raping squishies here and there, and you decide to push. But their okuu single handedly stops your push with some meat shield help, then aya comes in and kills the survivors. Which one do you think is the OP one? Or you are pushing and Merlin taunts your melee agility and their team rapes it, after that aya comes and the fight turns into a 3v4 from 4v3. Who do you think won the game now? Or their suwako ulti+aoe stuns your team for 4 seconds, while aya destroys people without opposition. Any carry can do that. She could just dash/blink in and get  destroyed in 1 second even with the help of her teammates . Now if Byak was doing the same thing, she could stun everyone, tank lots of damage and nuke the squishy. And she can do this with half the items aya has. Also gold is not infinite, if you can get away with less farming, your teammate can make use of that gold instead.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 10, 2011, 05:44:52 PM
Eronar, i have a serious question.

Do you not buy any defensive items on your carry heroes?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on June 10, 2011, 05:56:16 PM
Momiji was great before getting her Innate. She has a very long stun and her wolves are extremely good for harass or outright killing. If she can get the stun off and have wolves out she pretty much has already won against almost anyone early.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 05:57:14 PM
again assuming teams, in a general situation tengu's will pick off any squishy(int or not) before a siege will occur and get away with it because of there mobility. As i said before in mobility is a huge factor in dots. at some point this leads to tengu's being over farmed, be able to put out dps and still survive. team support means shit if your support is dieing do to some tengu ninja. only reasonable counter would be chain disables from enemy team, but again tengu also has allys so wasting everything you got on aya just to kill her isnt viable. also note ganking/tower diving plays a huge role in dots, in almost all the games ive seen if a tengu gets a chance to come and gank they will. also please quit assuming teams, for all we know aya may show up from a random.

Also adapting and such isnt viable we play for fun not competitive everyone having to go out of there way to just counter one enemy girl is so trouble some and with new players showing up having to deal with hard to kill carrys such as the tengus/nitori/flan isnt very viable.

your comparison seemed to prove that tengus have team support huh?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 10, 2011, 05:58:08 PM
Obviously I'm the one who voted Eiki, I don't actually expect anyone to ban her, I just fucking hate everything about her. :V

Did getting that crit passive really make Momiji that good? The wolves aren't a deadly threat by themselves and Momiji herself you can see coming, I don't recall ever being in a game where I was scared of her; she can't really burst out of nowhere and fuck you up like some other agi girls. I think Nitori is much worse, if you're at half health she can just fly across the map from anywhere and murder you. Flying is a cute gimmick on Mystia, but Nitori's noclip is just bullshit. Same deal with Aya.
the thing is, Momigay for me is one of best solo laner in game even shes AGI melee (agi melee supposed to be WEAK at early game but not for momizi which is dumb)because wolves can pretty much screw everyone's farm at early.Ok so we tower hugging but problem doesn't solved at all.Tower hugging=no exp for ya since denying in dots=no exp at all which is another fail devs job and she go tralala i'm in heaven 12 mins adamantine.decent farmed momizi at mid game can instagib every squishies ingame or even some str's.Don't forget her underused reveal skill (which suprises me why that skill is underused lol) can be devastating just like hatate's reveal

for eiki well after they give her new 3rd skill i can see why.With hp stacking and aspd items she can pretty much kill everything (but you still need tank to do that tho)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 10, 2011, 06:01:48 PM
Eronar, i have a serious question.

Do you not buy any defensive items on your carry heroes?
good question i was wondering that too
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 06:21:11 PM
Yay, everyone is teamed up against me

I mostly build defensive or support items, because I almost never play carries. What I am wondering is how  your support/squishies die that fast, are they building offensive items?  And I am not defending tengus because I like playing them, I am defending them because they are innocent  :)  They excel at doing annoying things ,thats why people think tengus are the reason they lost. People always remember that aya that killed them when they were running to safety.

-If a team cant kill a tengu trying to kill their squishy they deserve to lose, because they have no team coordination.
-Momiji's wolves are powerful, she may force you to tower hug, but that also makes her easier to gank. Just put someone who can hold their own against her.
-Of course tengus will have team support too, but they are medicore in straightout fights. That is not an opinion, that's a fact, it's just siting there at the corner, like the Law of Gravity.


Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 06:29:44 PM
Yay, everyone is teamed up against me

I mostly build defensive or support items, because I almost never play carries. What I am wondering is how  your support/squishies die that fast, are they building offensive items?  And I am not defending tengus because I like playing them, I am defending them because they are innocent  :)  They excel at doing annoying things ,thats why people think tengus are the reason they lost. People always remember that aya that killed them when they were running to safety.

-If a team cant kill a tengu trying to kill their squishy they deserve to lose, because they have no team coordination.
-Momiji's wolves are powerful, she may force you to tower hug, but that also makes her easier to gank. Just put someone who can hold their own against her.
-Of course tengus will have team support too, but they are medicore in straightout fights. That is not an opinion, that's a fact, it's just siting there at the corner, like the Law of Gravity.

-having to pool all your resources into one hero is dumb
-momiji isnt easily gankable do to her forever stuna dn ms
- medicore how? they have dps with out even trying do to aspd crits and passives

you keep ignoreing the fact that they have DPS, MOBILITY,  and SURVIVABILITY

maybe the reason everyone is against you is beacuse your dead wrong and playing the game actually shows how wrong you are k?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 06:32:30 PM
Nah, if the majority was always right, we would be living in utopias right now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 10, 2011, 06:37:15 PM
no because majority != everyone so it wouldnt be called utopia because minority wont admit there wrong
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 10, 2011, 06:43:22 PM
stop arguing
theorycrafting is pretty retarded, because you never have enough context.

Ero, you stopped playing with us anyway, why don't you start joining the irc again?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 06:48:55 PM
Majority believes in 'strength in numbers' , they think their word is law, because they have power, but don't forget, power corrupts. If you want to ban tengus, ban them because they are annoying/unfun to play against, not because they are OP. I cant play DotS much anyways, and I almost never play with tengus. I also never had problems with tengus (Even when hero/WW were playing with them). I couldn't care less . But I am doing this for the sake of justice. Yeah, justice for video game characters... its still justice.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: eronar on June 10, 2011, 06:50:26 PM
Had some final exams/ takehomes. Going to join you soon  :)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on June 10, 2011, 06:55:08 PM
Flandre dies to every nuke in the game,(unless you get more HP by items, but the tengus can do that too right) Utsuho lanes against something with regeneration and she sucks, Merlin can't tank everything because her str growth is pathetic for a "tanky" character(also if your enemy isn't stupid he can just hold out the taunt). Byakuren is a good character IMO but she isn't a good carry either, at late game she needs to hope that an actually good carry like nazrin/hatate/reisen got farmed. Also, mobility is IMPORTANT, in DotS and DotA and all the AoS that you can think about, since that if you can't pursue a hero, you can't kill it (if an aya with adamantine isn't dumb you won't be ganking her anytime soon, or escaping from her... you can't even juke her because of bunbunmaru!)

Don't you think that if you towerhug the whole game so you can avoid getting killed by momiji/aya/hatate the other team is going to farm the other lanes or go to neutrals?

Also this:

Quote from: eronar
-If a team cant kill a tengu trying to kill their squishy they deserve to lose, because they have no team coordination.
You can't expect the whole team to be together early game, and that is the moment where heroes like momiji must get the upper advantage. Only thing that you can do is put wards in the jungle/jumpspots so you can avoid the ganks, but in a public game that won't be happening anytime soon

Anyway i think that you are theorycrafting too much, we say that the tengus are dumb because we saw them ruining games(but i still think that the dumbest hero is nitori :P)

EDIT: Dang this panda too fast
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 10, 2011, 06:56:51 PM
... So uh, them Minamitsu innate.  What is it?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 10, 2011, 07:01:52 PM
Ghost Sign "Super Ship Crashing Skills"

When Murasa is in the ship when it dies, if it's over land she is slowed for a long duration. If the terrain cannot be unloaded on, she dies.
She is the captain, and goes down with the ship.



Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 10, 2011, 07:09:31 PM
Ghost Sign "Super Ship Crashing Skills"

When Murasa is in the ship when it dies, if it's over land she is slowed for a long duration. If the terrain cannot be unloaded on, she dies.
She is the captain, and goes down with the ship.

I thought Innates were supposed to be good!  For days, weeks I eagerly awaited Murasa's innate.  Who knows what it would be?  Wider hooks?

And then they give us boat crashing that will troll me at least once?  The only way this is useful is if I want to troll myself and die to prevent the enemy from getting the final shot.  Boo T_T
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 10, 2011, 07:14:53 PM
I thought Innates were supposed to be good!

Cirno would like to have a word with you :P
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 10, 2011, 07:58:57 PM
Ghost Sign "Super Ship Crashing Skills"

When Murasa is in the ship when it dies, if it's over land she is slowed for a long duration. If the terrain cannot be unloaded on, she dies.
She is the captain, and goes down with the ship.
oh hoo more nerf semi-OP or balanced girls and buff more OP ones eh?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on June 10, 2011, 08:19:52 PM
Well didn't Murasa die anyway if she was on water, and slowed if she was on grass when ship went down with her on it? So afaik nothing changed with addition of this passive.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 10, 2011, 09:05:25 PM
Yeah, as Ace said, it's not actually a skill. It's just like a tooltip that explains what happens when the boat crashes.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2011, 09:41:54 PM
Aya/Momiji/Hatate. Useless in teamfights.
Excuse me, I'll be laughing over there.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: PX on June 11, 2011, 02:05:08 AM
5 is not enough votes to get rid of the Agi carries.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 11, 2011, 12:17:46 PM
Haven't able to get on the comp *sigh*

And ban Aya & Momiji! *votes*
Cirno would like to have a word with you :P
That's a actually a good thing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 13, 2011, 09:28:38 AM
None of the girls have to banned if they would have just balance out their skills.

Wait, something in my previous line makes no sense.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2011, 09:32:17 AM
>DotS
>Balance

도대체 무슨 말 하고 있냐?

What the hell are you to say?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 13, 2011, 09:39:36 AM
- We could all write essays on how the balance should be or not.
- We could summon 50 threads talking about dots
- We could create dozens of polls to "investigate" certain things.

The problem is: we are not the devs, it is not our project, aka: We have to DWI or simply not play.

We all know how these so called "Community projects" unfold. Dots is the proof of it. I gave up the hopes long ago (all the way in v952). Dota has no passive abilities for the girls, LoL has. Failure to imitate as well.



Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2011, 09:43:51 AM
We have to DWI or simply not play.
Yepyep.

I gave up the hopes long ago
Wait, you had hopes of DotS being balanced? :o
:V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 13, 2011, 09:51:04 AM
Between 949c and 952 or so, there were useful tweaks and bug fixes. As well as tweaking out some stuff on some girls. It made the games more enjoyable. We barely raged back then, remember?

Of course, there was never the real obvious balance (as Rumia still remained gay with Koishi and Nitori) but Wriggle was not banned back then, remember?



TL DR;  There was never balance, but it wasn't as fucked up as it was since 0.952.


Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 13, 2011, 05:51:23 PM
Poll narrowed down.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 13, 2011, 06:56:19 PM
Now I'm just a stupid ol' person who hasn't played dots for a week now, due to massive gaming on my end, and I certainly don't like facing Momiji too much(unless I'm Koakuma or Merlin or something), but I've never had too much of a problem with Aya or Youmu or Hatate.  Youmu is entirely physical, picking up a Myon or something else high armor really invalidates her, and 3D escaping yourself(or her!) makes her cry.  Aya and Hatate suffers from a similar problem, although as you guys said, mobility is high with these two which helps their game tremendously.

Instead of me rambling on, I'm just going to put it like this.  The heroes that people favor right now are particularly weak to these three.  There are a slew of characters that are also strong against these three, but nobody picks them because they'd rather also pick similar characters.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 13, 2011, 07:42:21 PM
There are a slew of characters that are also strong against these three, but nobody picks them because they'd rather also pick similar characters.
obv some of us do that but...
Honestly yea i can counter pick, yea i can counter with items such as iae, ghgm, hsa but having to do this every game takes the fun out it for some im sure.
this
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 13, 2011, 07:49:16 PM
...except you not aiming for fun in playing DoTS at all (why do you think this game is a really good media for having fun anyway more like good media for anger management training)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 13, 2011, 11:43:56 PM
i think the main arguing point about certain heroes is how much countering they require.

Some carries don't really require additional countering aside from +armor, but then there are those like Rumia that specifically need stacking slows or mass disables.

as for 3d, i like the idea but while it stops you from getting killed by Aya, it doesn't stop Aya from escaping if you use it on her, nor does it stop her from killing someone else if you used it on yourself. it's definitely an awesome item though, you're right that more people should get it.

also i actually don't mind hatate at all. the nerf to basher and her r hit her hard, and even before then she wasn't a particularly outstanding carry hero. Her scaling is spike damage from R, so if you don't get gibbed by the R (which can be done by getting armor), then she's an agi hero with nothing to boost her dps. I think her mobility is very reasonable in that respect.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: HOENA on June 14, 2011, 03:05:21 AM
I've seen the game, dots, I think really what is needed is some corrections to some characters: Rumination. koishi and Wriggle.
the latter could not do as Rikimaru

I see a serious flaw in this Playlands terrasque because it does not regenerate anything: S

As for the tengus we could wait out an item like Orchi.

I have a question. the item You Sure That's Enough Armor?, really good, because it does not cure state, which state no more cure. I use it when I am poisoned with full bar and nothing happens, it's a bug perhaps?, this item is used for cases other than to revive faster.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on June 14, 2011, 05:45:02 AM
I myself haven't used 3b much at all... I'll be trying it later to feel it out.. As for "You Sure That's Enough Armor".. Says it removes all negative statuses from you with the exchange of a full charge... Maybe a bug.. or maybe Poisson or anything that isn't a negate on a stat *armor, strength, dexterity* isn't affected because it isn't a "Negative" status.. It's a effect..
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 14, 2011, 06:54:08 AM
So I've been surfing the touhou.cc forums more these days to see what they actually think of the various heros. Less srsbsns discussion there and more derping around, which is why if you guys play with the Chinese/Taiwanese, you're more likely to run into people who're just there to get in a game and mess around with their favourite Touhou character instead of actually defending a shrine. Also, different playstyles as everyone here already knows. I thought this one was funny, and also demonstrates how an early ward might pay off if creatively used (mental note: I need to get these things more often), so I'm sharing it here (taken off http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=39254&extra=page%3D1)

Suika's starting items for the day...
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4918/95843286.jpg)

Ward the high ground!
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2664/33888946.jpg)

Don't really know how she did it, but Suika stalling creeps...
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8093/84317053.jpg)

Target decided - the old hag's gotta go.
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2548/80178577.jpg)

Come closer baby...
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8811/92471284.jpg)

Take a ride
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1743/19994239.jpg)
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/82/72138163.jpg)

No need to say anymore...
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/28/65056494.jpg)

Side note: Someone posted a link there to a map with ex-rumia unlocked, but I decided to go for lunch first and download it later instead. When I got back, the post was locked... *facepalmheaddeskargh*
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 14, 2011, 07:33:14 AM
So I've been surfing the touhou.cc forums more these days to see what they actually think of the various heros. Less srsbsns discussion there and more derping around, which is why if you guys play with the Chinese/Taiwanese, you're more likely to run into people who're just there to get in a game and mess around with their favourite Touhou character instead of actually defending a shrine.

Does not compute.  dots, dota, LoL, HoN is srs bsns only.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 14, 2011, 07:38:07 AM
wall of pics
that becuz yukari is insanely stupid why she meleeing suika lmao
also i needs teh map *drools*

EDIT:maybe they doing that on purpose my bad lol
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 14, 2011, 08:23:58 AM
that becuz yukari is insanely stupid why she meleeing suika lmao
also i needs teh map *drools*

EDIT:maybe they doing that on purpose my bad lol

Actually from the previous pic, I think Yukari attacked Letty for some reason and in that one attack, Suika closed the distance and tossed her up. Yukari didn't move from her initial spot at all and we know the kind of latency (or lack of) that these guys play with...

I need that map too. :( If only I weren't so hungry earlier on... Posts there about EX-Rumia tend to get locked and deleted the moment a moderator comes online, especially if they involve modified maps... Argh!!!! >.<

Does not compute.  dots, dota, LoL, HoN is srs bsns only.

Heh this is the crap that goes on in their games... (from http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=39295&extra=page%3D1)

Quote
(Translated)
Just had a public game...
The opposite team's Keine just finished a gank and headed back to the shrine using the lower jump pad (Moriya's side) with almost no health. Our team's Mokou was at the jump pad too and silently watched Keine retreat into the distance...

Our team scolded the Mokou player for not using her dive skill to finish Keine off there and then....
He replied "I will be very sad if Mokou kills Keine"
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
This is love!
I was in tears after hearing that!
How will I ever deal with such sadness in future?!

:V

Reminds me of Sengoku Gensokyo and its affinity bonuses/debuffs. Using Keine to fight Mokou in that game reduced their abilities while once you had Mokou on your team, putting her alongside Keine raised both their stats, sometimes to rather crazy levels. It was rumoured that the DotS devs were considering putting such a feature into the game back in the days of the 0.95x versions since characters with affinities/enmities for each other were already nicely grouped. No idea what happened to that. I suppose they took the route of "the more characters the better".
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 14, 2011, 09:19:04 AM
What DrRawr said about fun and what WW agrees on is what I have been shouting like for dunno-how-many-versions.

@ Aph, the whole setup of Dots is obviously becoming more a "fuck around" style. I did notice the average play time has dropped from 40 minutes to 25 or so. Games quickly take a one-sided balance thus causing steamrolling. I've seen various chinese videos where their items are meant for solo-fucking-around.

Yesterday's game I played proved how stupid a once sided game can be. We got steamrolled in like 20 minutes, but defending 30 minutes or so while the loss was obvious. Stalling a loss, I think I am going to stop doing that from now on as well.

Also @ the screens, that Yukari is fucking stupid to get trapped there.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BallerSupreme on June 14, 2011, 02:36:09 PM
that mokou player...

he understands the true meaning of manliness.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 14, 2011, 03:38:16 PM
What DrRawr said about fun and what WW agrees on is what I have been shouting like for dunno-how-many-versions.

@ Aph, the whole setup of Dots is obviously becoming more a "fuck around" style. I did notice the average play time has dropped from 40 minutes to 25 or so. Games quickly take a one-sided balance thus causing steamrolling. I've seen various chinese videos where their items are meant for solo-fucking-around.

Yesterday's game I played proved how stupid a once sided game can be. We got steamrolled in like 20 minutes, but defending 30 minutes or so while the loss was obvious. Stalling a loss, I think I am going to stop doing that from now on as well.

Also @ the screens, that Yukari is fucking stupid to get trapped there.

Lol that game. Moriya could've ended it a lot faster by sending another pair of sokus, but I guess they were on cooldown or something. That and if Ace wasn't fooling around as Shou so much. Frankly, I don't mind shorter games if they're done right. Like D2, it's a chore to level up early on even though it's part of the game, so I think the devs did the right thing in boosting the experience gain to speed things up. I think there was even a small chance that we could even have made a comeback... if we had a carry of our own.

Also, I wish the map could be more consistent in the way skills interact with each other. :| Gonna do some tests with Shizuha's entangling roots skill when I get the free time - it seems that some skills are disabled while entangled while others aren't.

Anyway, I think most Suika players would've tossed their target somewhere else in that picture so I shared that pic since I thought it was a neat trick if really situational. Yukari may have been dumb by remaining in melee range (Suika with a broom is a lot faster than Yukari btw), but melee heros may not be able to avoid the toss so easily if they want to farm creeps.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 14, 2011, 04:21:16 PM
Ace didn't really fuck around much, he was on par with my Komachi because I was making his life miserable with souls. I started ganking mid to help out siege, but Shizuha (DrRawR) was already fed as he had melon sword and AGI items.

About Shizuha, you can use Marisa's dash while you are in her roots. Same goes for Aya as well I think.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 14, 2011, 04:57:25 PM
I am most certainly down with a game to play for the love of Touhou fandom and pairings. Yeah let's play more silly and say 'Screw defending the stupid mikos' shrines!' :D
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on June 15, 2011, 01:36:20 AM
The Miko's would rather destroy their own shrine.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 15, 2011, 02:21:07 AM
Heh this is the crap that goes on in their games... (from http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=39295&extra=page%3D1)
manly_tears.jpg
man that mokou's kindness.....teaches us the true meaning of love
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 15, 2011, 07:37:18 AM
Yeah let's play more silly and say 'Screw defending the stupid mikos' shrines!' :D

No wai, my faith in the shrine is always strong.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: kactaplb on June 18, 2011, 07:02:28 PM
...speechless. so manly! although if this happened in our games, rage would ensue I'm sure.

needs more theme picks regardless, and less counter picking or worrying about this or that.

srsbsns opinion, I don't think any girls should be banned except exrumia as long as said girls aren't pick every single game yea? Anyways, I rather enjoy playing against jerk picks. It simply means the team has to pick up the slack with skill. YEA! or I'm an m. Anyways...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 18, 2011, 08:40:43 PM
needs more theme picks regardless, and less counter picking or worrying about this or that.
That's why whenever I'm first player, we do hide pick.  And more theme picks would be nice.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Nightkriss on June 18, 2011, 08:48:36 PM
Why won't we host games with modes 2-2 ? Right now players are not choosing girls,which they want to play but just chars to troll other team girls. It's ruining the fun from game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on June 18, 2011, 10:01:48 PM
I'm also in favour of 2-2 after a couple games at the Taiwan room. It tends to force people to think about their hero choices and how they synergize, which is better for increasing the skill of players. Also, 1-2 generally leads to counterpick (well, I usually make my hero choices based on other team, so I'm assuming it'd be same for others) which just takes the fun out of the game. :(

I also wouldn't mind experimenting with unbanning every girl (fine, maybe not Rumia, she's just dumb.) / item / weather (the +mp / +attack seems cool)  just to see if our skill would improve. The games at Taiwan wasn't as rage-inducing as I thought it'd be, even with chars like Youmu being picked frequently there. Those chars force you to play better, to mapwatch, and teamplay. (spamming truesight wards if Wriggle appeared for example, or not overextending if Momizi is mia.) Of course it might lead to gay chars being picked every game, but it's just a thought I had. We rage half the time in our regular dots games anyway :/
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 18, 2011, 10:25:28 PM
You guys make me sad with all the Rumia hate. I just like how adorable she is but nobody likes to play with her ;_;
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 18, 2011, 10:53:07 PM
I'd let Rumia eat me up.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 19, 2011, 01:05:16 AM
I would LOVE for weather to be unlocked.  Adds a whole new dimension of faith using.

That and Tenshi's innate would be useful!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 19, 2011, 04:24:19 AM
I would LOVE for weather to be unlocked.  Adds a whole new dimension of faith using.

That and Tenshi's innate would be useful!
YES! YES!![/Bison] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs) Seconded.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 19, 2011, 07:48:06 AM
I would LOVE for weather to be unlocked.  Adds a whole new dimension of faith using.

That and Tenshi's innate would be useful!
i suggest unlock only Drizzle weather (the ones which provides +3 mp/s regen) because its the only ones i find not stupid like the rest of weathers.
Also i suggest 2-2 BUT no one randompick (prevents "yo dawg my team randompicks and got rumia koishi momigay aya so no rm plox letz continue ze~)
You guys make me sad with all the Rumia hate. I just like how adorable she is but nobody likes to play with her ;_;
/me hugs Pesco and cries together ;_;
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 19, 2011, 08:15:17 AM
i suggest unlock only Drizzle weather (the ones which provides +3 mp/s regen) because its the only ones i find not stupid like the rest of weathers.

The only one I might have an issue with would be Spring Haze, which isn't so bad due to it's high faith cost early and middle on.  The rest are fairly okay, each having their ups and downs on certain characters, and ALL weathers are situational.  If I was China or someone, you bet I'd use me some East Asian Rain right off the bat.

Actually I'm not averse to spring haze either since at least it'd extend dots gameplay as well.  No longer would an accidental teamwipe be the end of the game!... Well it still would, because Spring Haze only lasts 25 seconds compared to the usual respawn time of 70 seconds, but the thought is there.  It'd also slow down the agi-carries who rely on physical damage a whole lot to do anything.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 19, 2011, 08:46:24 AM
The only one I might have an issue with would be Spring Haze, which isn't so bad due to it's high faith cost early and middle on.  The rest are fairly okay, each having their ups and downs on certain characters, and ALL weathers are situational.  If I was China or someone, you bet I'd use me some East Asian Rain right off the bat.

Actually I'm not averse to spring haze either since at least it'd extend dots gameplay as well.  No longer would an accidental teamwipe be the end of the game!... Well it still would, because Spring Haze only lasts 25 seconds compared to the usual respawn time of 70 seconds, but the thought is there.  It'd also slow down the agi-carries who rely on physical damage a whole lot to do anything.
Maybe we should unban some (or maybe all) weathers and lets see what happened about 1 week
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 19, 2011, 08:54:53 AM
I'm willing to give this a try and see how our metagame changes
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 19, 2011, 09:46:32 AM
Heads up about the weather: I played a few games on Garena before with weather on when I first started (before playing more games here) - one common strat if you can figure out when your opponents are going to use weather is to deny them its use by using it first. The cooldown affects both teams. /uselesstip

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 19, 2011, 02:54:32 PM
Every time I pick Tenshi... Something Bad Happens.

That's the fifth time in a row <_< Hero999 DC 3 times, Me once & now Amra
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 19, 2011, 08:41:16 PM
Would like to say that please decide on weather you are using whether before the game starts or while picking.  Many people appear to have computers made out of rocks and modems made out of smaller piles of rocks, and the effects tends to lag them horribly.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 20, 2011, 02:04:00 AM
Would like to say that please decide on weather you are using whether before the game starts or while picking.  Many people appear to have computers made out of rocks and modems made out of smaller piles of rocks, and the effects tends to lag them horribly.
i lol'ed but thats kinda mean
well ppl start using weather btw lets see if the game become more stupid than before or not
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BrownBeta on June 20, 2011, 02:07:20 AM
Would like to say that please decide on weather you are using whether before the game starts or while picking.  Many people appear to have computers made out of rocks and modems made out of smaller piles of rocks, and the effects tends to lag them horribly.

I DONT LAGGG!!

i just dc  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 20, 2011, 02:59:30 AM
My next computer casing will be hewn from a block of granite. Just so that I can have an actual computer made out of a rock. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 20, 2011, 09:54:30 AM
Weather system is terrible designed and does actually improve gameplay but only worsen it. Before all of you start throwing in arguments, the following is logically subjective opinions.

Drizzle - probably the most useful weather which has no terrible effect on the game. No unbalancing or no fucking ups for gameplay.
Scarlet Mist - is pretty much ignorable. LS? It might perhaps stall creep laning bit more but it will do nothing amazing.
River Mist - when you want to go Metal Gear solid 2, this is your weather. Though everybody starts behaving different when this weather is on. And only 40 seconds.
East Asian Rain - This weather halves creeps HP to 50% for sure, it is pretty good counter to stall stuff. Probably 2nd useful weather in this game.
Springe Haze - GOOD THING DEVS LET THE BUILDINGS GAIN ARMOUR AS WELL. Before, they didn't which made this weather fucking retarted because Youmu or other fast AGI could tear down towers/rax and you could do NOTHING about it. Now it is good for stalling. But.... Patchouli, Marisa and other spell users will benefit from this weather most as the armour is like Reimu's border, physical blocking. So yea good luck trying to harm them while their magic attacks dmg the shit out of you.
Typhoon - ...35% dmg?. Do I need to say more?
Snow - you will think this weather is nice to use when chasing, NOT. As it backfires also on your own ass. Basically it is a weather for blink-abusers and dashers. Or perhaps stalling.


TL DR;  Drizzle, East Asian Rain are only non-fuckup weathers.

People who mention Tenshi's passive ability with weather, it is cute but poorly designed: Weather has fucked up long cooldown and as if you are going to 24/7 camp the weather controller, wasting effort, focus and faith just to get some extra bonus out of Tenshi. It seriously does not make up.

I wish they would turn the weather into a toggle-able option in the lobby so it randomizes a set of weathers per lets say, 10 minutes? That way it will be more like a SURPRISE-FACTOR instead of trying hard to meta it up.

But we know all how this game is being developed.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 20, 2011, 10:35:47 AM
TL DR;  Drizzle, East Asian Rain are only non-fuckup weathers.
People who mention Tenshi's passive ability with weather, it is cute but poorly designed
win
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 20, 2011, 10:43:29 AM
You know how everyone like to disable weather for SWR? Yeah that.

But let's give it another chance here. Consider that the most hated on girls according to the poll are physical damage dealers, with weather usage the metagame can shift to favouring magic damage carries for a change.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 20, 2011, 11:35:51 AM
computers made out of rocks and modems made out of smaller piles of rocks, and the effects tends to lag them horribly.
My comp is old, but it doesn't lag when the weathers are enabled :| and DC is my arch nemesis!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 20, 2011, 04:55:50 PM
Drizzle - probably the most useful weather which has no terrible effect on the game. No unbalancing or no fucking ups for gameplay.
Scarlet Mist - is pretty much ignorable. LS? It might perhaps stall creep laning bit more but it will do nothing amazing.
River Mist - when you want to go Metal Gear solid 2, this is your weather. Though everybody starts behaving different when this weather is on. And only 40 seconds.
East Asian Rain - This weather halves creeps HP to 50% for sure, it is pretty good counter to stall stuff. Probably 2nd useful weather in this game.
Springe Haze - GOOD THING DEVS LET THE BUILDINGS GAIN ARMOUR AS WELL. Before, they didn't which made this weather fucking retarted because Youmu or other fast AGI could tear down towers/rax and you could do NOTHING about it. Now it is good for stalling. But.... Patchouli, Marisa and other spell users will benefit from this weather most as the armour is like Reimu's border, physical blocking. So yea good luck trying to harm them while their magic attacks dmg the shit out of you.
Typhoon - ...35% dmg?. Do I need to say more?
Snow - you will think this weather is nice to use when chasing, NOT. As it backfires also on your own ass. Basically it is a weather for blink-abusers and dashers. Or perhaps stalling.


TL DR;  Drizzle, East Asian Rain are only non-fuckup weathers.


This probably won't change yer mind, but I would like to note that all weathers are still situational.  All that stuff you said about Spring Haze, yeah that sucks, but I would also applaud the other team for getting the idea to use Spring Haze and a character like Patchouli or Marisa, who are of the few characters that can do magic damage to towers.  Snow is good for chasers who are way faster than usual, or have a different method of chasing(Murasa, blinking types, etc), and can be hilarious to certain enemies if you are Letty.  Scarlet Mist is good with most melee carries, or if you need a quick method to heal if you don't want to go back to base, River Mist is good if you are Kaguya or have a tengu or anything like that.

Just last night, we were in a game where we spammed the crap out of drizzle, because our team used mana a lot and they had Mokou and Koishi, who couldn't use the weather at all.  This is the prime example of using strategy with weather.

The only one I have a bit of an issue with is Typhoon, which is +35% damage and slightly wonky, but the bonus isn't given to just the enemy team.  You have it too!  If you are or have a team member that is a heavy hitter type, then it'll be crazy useful if you can set up a gank or something.  If you get ganked, well that's your problem.  Would also like to know if it's +35% total damage or base damage.

TL DR; you use weathers to give yourself an advantage and if possible, the enemy a disadvantage.  That's pretty much the entirety of strategy.


Before I forget, the whole 'pile of rocks' thing is a joke I make to my friend because her computer still runs Windows 98.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 20, 2011, 05:44:51 PM
actually only marisa/okuu can do noticeable damage to towers with spells. patchys fire ball does like what 50? damage, but then its reduced  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 20, 2011, 06:10:35 PM
Would also like to know if it's +35% total damage or base damage.
based on your base damage (similar to trueshot/command aura)
Just last night, we were in a game where we spammed the crap out of drizzle, because our team used mana a lot and they had Mokou and Koishi, who couldn't use the weather at all
more like those people didn't want to be a real jerk (maybe) so they spammed the most sane weather
well don't get me wrong i'm actually neutral with this weather debate (at least decrease the bonus from weathers tho..i find that invis weather quite interesting for some reason)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on June 20, 2011, 06:42:25 PM
Some uses for East Asian Rain, because good examples were given for other weathers.

It can be used to completely destroy creeps, which is good for defending. However, with reitaisai + healers like MoF / Eirin, you can siege the enemy tower and weaken the enemy girls. You can kill yukkuris / girls with low hp that are running away. If they have 40x hp, Tenshi, cast the weather ans SWR :V

It also trolls the squishies too, good for tank teams
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 20, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
actually only marisa/okuu can do noticeable damage to towers with spells. patchys fire ball does like what 50? damage, but then its reduced  :V
Royal flare

and

Chiko



@ Dular,
I agree on all given arguments in your post. So we can both safely assume it is an extremely situational thing to get weathers right or wrong. Either way, if people want to play with it, that is fine. Just as long as they highlight the others (before the game starts...) so no whining/raging occurs when suddenly someone surprise weathers.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 20, 2011, 09:04:42 PM
except 20 updates ago they made it so royal flare couldnt target buildings anymore :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: shadowbringer on June 21, 2011, 03:38:44 AM
actually only marisa/okuu can do noticeable damage to towers with spells. patchys fire ball does like what 50? damage, but then its reduced  :V

RF and Philo Stones are good against towers, and her firelol is good against the creeps coming to defend them. But still, there are faster alternatives for taking out towers (Yuuka, Reisen) and Orinpush's explosions do damage to towers as well.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 21, 2011, 11:10:17 AM
philo stones and yuuka dont work when they have 5000 armour though
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 21, 2011, 12:41:22 PM
except 20 updates ago they made it so royal flare couldnt target buildings anymore :V
Too bad Devs cannot decide whether they want to let it target buildings or not.

---

@ Shadow,  what Rawr said. Phil stones are physical and magical damage mixed. Most of the damage is physical, thus doesn't do anything to Spring hase or strong armour units.

@ Rawr,  afaik Flowers had piercing damage. Perhaps they will. Need to test out to be sure.

Edit: Flowers don't puncture AP during spring hase. Only F will deal damage for Yuka, but that's about it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: TripleDenial on June 22, 2011, 12:47:34 PM
Hi all!
I'm looking for a place where people gather to play DotS.
If you know anything - chat, channel, conference, etc. - where I can find people to play DotS with, tell me PLS!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 22, 2011, 12:49:28 PM
Threads and section for DotS/WC3 is here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/board,39.0.html)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 22, 2011, 12:53:43 PM
We like to hang out and organize games on our IRC channel (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=dots-meido).
As for actually playing with us, we play on the MotK battlenet server.
Instructions for setting it up can be found here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.msg515830.html#msg515830).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: TripleDenial on June 22, 2011, 01:01:18 PM
I tried this server but couldn't catch any game to enter. When do u usually play? What time, what timezone?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 22, 2011, 01:03:24 PM
We don't hang around on bnet.
Unfortunately, if you only lurk bnet, you're not going to get into any games.
This is because we organize all of our games on the IRC beforehand.
As for timezones, we play at all times, though games are more common on weekends. Since we have players from pretty much everywhere.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: TripleDenial on June 22, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
So tell me pls, how to join ur IRC channel??
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 22, 2011, 01:06:50 PM
Click on this link (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=dots-meido) and put in a nickname before hitting "Connect".
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on June 22, 2011, 03:01:26 PM
Seems like somebody doesn't like reading. ;D
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 22, 2011, 03:30:40 PM
Threads merged for justice.



Raito already had his/her first game with us. He/she seems familiar with the game, just suffering from delay. Kind of like Amra.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 23, 2011, 07:04:47 AM
We should have DotS Achievements. Because just about every other game has these things nowadays, even single player Portal 2. (non srsbsns rubbish coming up)

Achievement Unlocked!
Pacifist Run - Be on the winning team with no kills.
Legend of Hourai - Be on the winning team with no deaths.
Ip Man - Solo kill an entire team with no assists from teammates or teammates nearby. (You need to have watched the Ip Man movie to get this reference... or just http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=127940685472 :V)
Lunatic High - Successfully graze 3 spells within 10 seconds with red hp.
Apparitions Stalk The Night - Random EX-Rumia. :V
Unidentified Flying Fantastic Girl - Hit with 3 consecutive UFOs within 15 seconds as Nue.
Greedisgood - As Minoriko, heal yourself when there's a red hp teammate nearby. :V
So Yandere... - Wreck 2 towers within 10 minutes of the game starting.
So Tsundere... - Deny an entire creep wave.
Inaba of the Earth - Grab 10 runes with positive effects in a game.
Resurrection Butterfly - Kill your killer within 15 seconds of your death.

/random

Adding a new one just because...

So VERY Yandere... - Deal at least 5000 damage to a single target within 0.5s (after taking armour/magic resistance into account)

I watched a chinese replay sometime ago where someone did this in a hilarious way.  :o Hint: It wasn't done with Flan.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on June 23, 2011, 07:18:37 AM
Pacifist Run - Be on the winning team with no kills.

I've done this a couple of times before :V

Legend of Hourai - Be on the winning team with no deaths.

I've done this once as my first and only time as Meiling :V

Ip Man - Solo kill an entire team with no assists from teammates or teammates nearby. (You need to have watched the Ip Man movie to get this reference... or just http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=127940685472 :V)

This sounds like Dormio when his luck is agreeing with him :V Not like me at all though.

Lunatic High - Successfully graze 3 spells within 10 seconds with red hp.

I think a lot of us have done this a few times including me :3

Apparitions Stalk The Night - Random EX-Rumia. :V

I WILL ONE DAY GET THIS.

Unidentified Flying Fantastic Girl - Hit with 3 consecutive UFOs within 15 seconds as Nue.

I fail as Nue :V and I played as her twice only.

Greedisgood - As Minoriko, let a teammate die near you when your Apple or Potato Cart skills cooldown is off. :V

Fairly sure I don't qualify for this :V

So Yandere... - Wreck 2 towers within 10 minutes of the game starting.

I rarely random pushing heroes orz

So Tsundere... - Deny an entire creep wave.

What is this 'deny' ability you speak of, I have Australian delay, screw you all :V

Inaba of the Earth - Grab 10 runes with positive effects in a game.

I AM NOT DORMIO SCREW THIS.

Resurrection Butterfly - Kill your killer within 15 seconds of your death.

I've done this randomly a few times :3
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 23, 2011, 07:22:52 AM
Ip Man - Solo kill an entire team with no assists from teammates or teammates nearby. (You need to have watched the Ip Man movie to get this reference... or just http://www.facebook.com
/random
ROFL IP MAN
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 23, 2011, 07:24:06 AM
Pacifist Run - Be on the winning team with no kills.
I don't think I've done this.

Legend of Hourai - Be on the winning team with no deaths.
Definitely not. If it's not the enemy team killing me, it will be the runes.

Ip Man - Solo kill an entire team with no assists from teammates or teammates nearby.
Sign me up.

Lunatic High - Successfully graze 3 spells within 10 seconds with red hp.
Hi rizock. Your Nue loves me.

Apparitions Stalk The Night - Random EX-Rumia. :V
Haven't randomed since EX-Rumia came out.

Unidentified Flying Fantastic Girl - Hit with 3 consecutive UFOs within 15 seconds as Nue.
Don't play Nue.

Greedisgood - As Minoriko, let a teammate die near you when your Apple or Potato Cart skills cooldown is off. :V
Don't play Minoriko either.

So Yandere... - Wreck 2 towers within 10 minutes of the game starting.
Uh, don't thinks so.Actually, Tanaka just reminded me that I got this as Alice once.

So Tsundere... - Deny an entire creep wave.
When I was hosting, yep.

Inaba of the Earth - Grab 10 runes with positive effects in a game.
This, and its inverse, has happened many, many times to me.

Resurrection Butterfly - Kill your killer within 15 seconds of your death.
I do this regularly.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 23, 2011, 07:33:01 AM
This, and its inverse, has happened many, many times to me.

You need a new achievement.

Runemaster - Picked up 50 runes in a game.

Lol
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 23, 2011, 09:10:01 AM
Hey, isn't denying creeps means killing your own creeps?

AIs in DoTA have done this a lot.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on June 23, 2011, 10:32:12 AM
Hey, isn't denying creeps means killing your own creeps?

AIs in DoTA have done this a lot.

Denying your own creeps and last hitting enemy creeps is common.. Everyone needs to learn how to do it to some degree else they don't qualify as good players.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 23, 2011, 11:06:13 AM
How about cardmaster achievement :D
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on June 23, 2011, 11:26:14 AM
Pacifist Run - Definitely. Usually whenever I get Letty, though I TEND TO SNOWBALL KS. NOT MY FAULT.
Legend of Hourai - On the rare occasion I play Kaguya, or Mokou if I'm really trying.
Ip Man - HJ. OKUU. Or spiders derping everyone.
Lunatic High - Lolno. My luck is horrible.
Apparitions Stalk the Night - NO. NEVER. I REFUSE. NOT. ONE. BIT.
Unidentified Flying Fantastic Girl - lolol. But what if there's no one left alive to UFO~?  :3
So Yandere - I pride myself on my ability to do this.
So Tsundere - When I bother. Or play old Okuu.  :3
Inaba of the Earth - I ALWAYS FORGET ABOUT RUNES AFTER LIKE 10 MINUTES
Inaba of the Moon - I ALWAYS FORGET ABOUT-*shot*
Resurrection Butterfly - Yamame main. That is all.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 23, 2011, 05:03:39 PM
Pacifist Run - Be on the winning team with no kills
Apparitions Stalk The Night - Random EX-Rumia. :V
Unidentified Flying Fantastic Girl - Hit with 3 consecutive UFOs within 15 seconds as Nue.
Greedisgood - As Minoriko, heal yourself when there's a red hp teammate nearby. :V
So Tsundere... - Deny an entire creep wave.

These are the only ones I've yet to get on that list.  Mostly because I've played Nue once and I've yet to play Minoriko.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 23, 2011, 06:33:42 PM
How about cardmaster achievement :D

Feel free to make up more :D

Moar Achievements!
Satori's Recollection - Use 15 spellcards in a game (seriously, does she really count as the single Touhou character with the most spellcards? I swear the Mokou boss fight in IN Extra involves more spellcards.)
Border of Life - Stay at red hp for over 2 min without dying when there're enemy units/girls within a distance of 1000 units :V
Stole the Precious Thing - Steal a concordia from someone
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 24, 2011, 03:40:49 AM
can only think five four atm lol
Kappanet - buy only cucumber for the whole game (tea,cards,and even yukkuris is not allowed) and win the game
Unfaithful - never use any faith (i.e genji devour, moriya stun, etc etc) and win the game
Cardmaster(from my previous post) - buy AND use 30 cards (any type)
Queen of Yukkuris - buy 40 yukkuris and get at least 2 kills with them (you can give item for those yukkuris)
 EDIT:removed trickster achievement because its next to impossible
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on June 24, 2011, 03:47:40 PM
Never Gonna Give (You) Up - Go canon build for a girl, buyback every single time you die.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 24, 2011, 07:19:08 PM
You are (not) alone:never stays near 2k range from allies past 10 mins
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 25, 2011, 02:25:06 AM
Pacifist Run - With AIs? Never, but I can do that. Just make their hp red and they will run away to their base.

Legend of Hourai - Obvious with AIs

Ip Man - Same as above

Lunatic High - Need to do this with real people

Apparitions Stalk The Night - Epic Fail :V

Unidentified Flying Fantastic Girl - I forgot,maybe I did this once.

Greedisgood - Who needs allies when fighting AIs?

So Yandere... - Did this with Alice and Koishi.

Inaba of the Earth - I only grabbed a rune twice. One of them makes me explode which makes me less likely to pick them up again.

Resurrection Butterfly - A lot.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on June 25, 2011, 03:37:14 PM
AI does not count for these achievements.

EDIT:

Since we're getting achievements, here's mine:

AchievementRequirements
Cirno's Math ClassWin as Cirno while having items that provide INT (tickets, drinks, cards, yukkuris are not allowed).
You Can (Not) AdvanceWin a 2 hour long game.
And Then Will There Be None?Have a total wipe of all players in the game.
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody of all HumankindWipe out all enemy heroes with Tenshi's Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.
Master EngineerWin with only non-recipe items.
Operation Ten-GoKill two heroes (allied or enemy) with Minamitsu's boat crash ability while being inside.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Hero999 on June 25, 2011, 03:52:44 PM
Eye'm the Strongest - Achieve 9 Kills 9 Deaths 9 Assists

fufufu
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 25, 2011, 03:55:59 PM
The helepolis: Last hit all enemy towers
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 25, 2011, 04:42:29 PM
Killing 2 Birds with 1 Stone - Kill 2 birds with 1 stone

Angry Bird - Charge into the enemy team at least 3 seconds ahead of your own team, taking out at least one girl and dying. Can only be gotten with certain heros. :V

Whosyourdaddy - Be invulnerable/invincible (i.e. a state where you cannot take any damage) during a team battle for at least 15 seconds continuously.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 25, 2011, 07:55:26 PM
DOTS .966B!  OMG!  =O

For the record, this was entirely translated from engrish, so it might not be 100%.  I do this because no one else is on hand to translate.

WEATHER
Scarlet Mist consumption Faith 8 -> 5
Consumption of Faith East Asian Rain 8 -> 12
Drizzle consumption Faith 8 -> 12
Add weather wind level
River mist consumption Faith 15 -> 20
Added weather sun
Added weather storm
Spring Haze consumption faith spend 15 -> 35
Faith cap 99999--> 100 !


SKILLS
Rumia icon to remove the extra skills(?)
Rumia innate skills added
Rumia's "is ~ that ~ so ~" The girls can not afford to eat the damage and restore blood 150/200/250 -> 300/450/600 (?)
Meiling's, "Fierce Tigers inner strength" damage 50 -> 30 + x3% maximum health
Flandre's destruction "core breaker" bonus damage 15% -> 12.5%
Lunasa Added
Merlin str 22 + 2.10 -> 24 + 2.30 21 + 1.80 int -> 19 + 1.60
Merlin "Prismriver Concerto - Trumpet Solo" value changed from 6% to 10% max hp
Merlin Maddening Fantasy Music health regen +2.5 -> +3.0
Merlin Exciting Trumpet Piece - First Movement return rate 80/100/120% -> 100/125/150%
Lyrica's Agi 22 + 2.10 -> 24 + Str 21 + 1.80 2.30 -> 19 + 1.60 (?)
Lyrica Key Ghost "Bosendorfer" cooldown 18/15/12/9 -> 19/16/13/10
Lyrica Key Ghost "Rhythmic Keyboard Piece - First Movement" cooldown 135 -> 120/110/100
Wriggle's Lamp Sign "Firefly Phenomenon" (D) -> innate skill
Wriggle new  skill "unseasonable Butterfly Storm"
Wriggle Insect Sign "Insect Storm"  new buff, +10hp +1 attack for each level Wriggle has.
Mystia "Blind Nightbird" Damage Done 0 -> 150/275/400
Tewi Cunning Rabbit "Ancient Duper" bomb time 180 seconds -> 240 seconds
Kaguya Impossible Request "Hourai Barrage -Rainbow Danmaku-" cooldown 14 -> 12
Kaguya Udongein Planting cooldown 190/150/110/70 -> 160/130/100/70
KaguyaImpossible Request "Dragon?s Necklace?Indomitable Will- Everlasting Life-Patient Mind" health 400/600/800 -> 400/700/1000
Mokou Immortal "Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix-" cooldown 13/15/17/19 -> 17
Medicine "Sweet Poison" silence time 3/4/5/6 -> 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0
Nitori Chemistry "Light Saber Energy Reaction"base damage 15/30/45/60 -> 16/32/48/64
Sanae Divine Virtue "Bumper Crop Rice Shower" cooldown 120 -> 135
Suwako  Native God ?Gushing Spring of the Ancient? cooldown 16 -> 13
Iku Thorn Sign "Thundercloud stickleback" damage 40/60/80/100 -> 40/55/70/85
Iku Light Star "Dragon God?s Sigh" damage 40/60/80/100 -> 40/55/70/85
Yamame Poison Sign "Japanese Foliage Spider" Agility 2% per IAS 9 -> 4% IAS
Yuugi Oni's Voice "Annihilating Roar" damage 155/210/265/320 -> 110 + force x1.10/140 + power x1.40/170 + power x1.70/200 + power x2.00 (Needs better translation!)
Yuugi Oni's Voice "Annihilating Roar"cooldown of 8 -> 11/9.5/8.0/6.5
Yuugi Feat of Strength "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe" probability 5/10/10/15% -> 5/8/11/14%
Yuugi Feat of Strength "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe" knockback from 700 -> 500
Utsuho "Hell and Heaven Meltdown" mana regen 6/12/24/48 -> 5/10/20/40
Utsuho "Hell's Tokamak" reduced by 3% to 23% -> 2% to 18%
Murasa Nice Boat "Spinach" increase in STR from 36/48/60/72 -> 33/44/55/66
Shou Demon of Purification damage 80/135/190/245 -> 95/145/195/245
Shou "Complete Clarification" damage 220/330/440 -> 250/375/500
Suika Missing Purple Power no longer lose mana on cast.
Sunny Milk added

ITEMS

Don't wanna.  Someone else do it.  Here it is in glorious chinese and engrish though.

- 新增物品很值钱的礼物 - Add a very valuable gift items
- BL符冷却时间30 -> 20 - BL Fu cooldown 30 -> 20
- 新增物品月面之弓弦 - New items on the bow side
- 护士人偶合成修改为初期魔法教学(450) + 天狗的护符(500) + 合成卷(150) - Nurse dolls for the initial synthesis of modified teaching magic (450) + Tengu's Charm (500) + Synthetic Volume (150)
- 护士人偶智力+6 攻速+12% 可施展技能急救 - Nurse dolls Intellect +6 +12% attack speed can display their emergency skills
- 网引合成修定河童手枪(1100) + 面罩(1000) + 小改锥(1800) + 制作书(1000) = 总价(4900) - Net synthesis revisions cited Kappa pistol (1100) + mask (1000) + small screwdriver (1800) + production of the book (1000) = total (4900)
- 网引属性力量+14 敏捷+14 护甲+4 攻击+26 - Network attributes cited Armor +4 Strength +14 Agility +14 Attack +26
- 网引效果持续6秒->5秒降低智力60->50 - Network quoted for 6 seconds -> 5 seconds to reduce intelligence 60 -> 50
- 三次元合成修定很值钱的礼物(1100) + 登月制作章(1000) + 酒(875) + 制作书(1825) = 总价(4800) - Coordinate synthesis of a very valuable gift revised (1100) + the moon making Chapter (1000) + wine (875) + production of the book (1825) = total (4800)
- 三次元属性力量+14 智力+14 回魔+160% - Coordinate property back to the magic power of +14 Intellect +14 +160%
- 替身人偶合成修定护士人偶(1100) + 猫爪(1000) + 冰精祝福过的青蛙(900) + 制作书(1700) = 总价(4700) - Stand-in puppet doll nurses synthetic revised (1100) + Cat's Claw (1000) + ice fine blessed frog (900) + production of the book (1700) = total (4700)
- 替身人偶智力+14 敏捷+14 攻击+25 攻速+25% - Stand-in puppet Intellect +14 Agility +14 attack +25 attack speed +25%
- 钱玉合成修改为蘑菇系列(540) + 小锤子(1400) + 合成卷(410) - Qian Yu synthetic modified mushroom series (540) + small hammer (1400) + Synthetic volume (410)
- 钱玉全能力+4 -> 全能力+6 攻击力+26 -> +20 - Qian Yu full capacity +4 -> full power attack +26 +6 -> +20
- 龙星总价4200 -> 3800 持续时间4秒->5秒 - Lone Star's total 4200 -> 3800 duration of 4 seconds -> 5 seconds
- 红马总价1700 -> 1600 - Red horse total 1700 -> 1600
- 蓝马总价1550 -> 1600 - The total price of the Blue Horse 1550 -> 1600
- 这样的装备没问题吗? 7个便当清除所有负面Buff -> 启动即清除 - This equipment is no problem it? 7 lunch remove all the negative Buff -> start of clearing



These are the skills I wasn't able to make sense of.  Tell me what they are and I'll edit the post.
- Orange-day break "angel Ming moving" engine rate of 30% -> 35%
- 灵梦神技「八方鬼缚阵」冷却时间120 -> 135 - Spirit Dreams nirvana "Octagon ghost tied array" cooling time 120 -> 135
- 白莲施法前摇0.5 -> 0.4 - White Lotus magic before shaking 0.5 -> 0.4
- 白莲「超人圣白莲」替入技能「星剑之护法」 - White Lotus "Superman holy lotus" into the skills for "Star Sword of law enforcement."
- 白莲「超人圣白莲」终极技能-> 天生技随「星剑之护法」成长 - White Lotus "Superman holy lotus" ultimate skill -> natural skills with the "sword of the law-enforcement Star" Growth
- 山女瘴气「原因不明之热病」降低5% -> 增加5% - Mountain Women miasma "of fever of unknown cause" reduced by 5% -> 5%
- Yi Jiu "feathers if empty" start point to upgrade their skills shock damage 10/20/30/40
- 幽幽子樱符「全然墨染之樱」 冷却时间8 -> 6 - Faint sub-cherry character, "the cherry dye ink completely" cooling time of 8 -> 6
- Red Penglai sister, "fast-Ching Kai Feng," with an explosive attack 18%
- 妹红爆炸效果变成提昇爆炸伤害 - To enhance the sister becomes red explosions explosive damage
- 文基础攻击28~30 -> 34~36 - Text-based attack 28 30 -> 34 ~ 36
- 文风符「风神一扇」伤害20+敏捷x0.9/27+敏捷x1.05/34+敏捷x1.20/41+敏捷x1.35 -> 30+敏捷x0.8/38+敏捷x1.0/46+敏捷x1.2/54+敏捷x1.4 - Style character "Fengshen a" harm x0.9/27 + 20 + agility agility agility x1.05/34 + x1.20/41 + Agility x1.35 -> 30 + agility x0.8/38 + Agility x1 .0/46 + agility x1.2/54 + Agility x1.4
- Four Seasons trial "rather pear-Net trial," the crime of conversion of 10% for each attack -> no conversion
- 转转厄符「噩运储存」冷却时间90 -> 125 - Around Ecuador character "Caucasian Save" cooling time 90 -> 125
Title: Re: [WC3 - DotS] Strategic guides on Girls.
Post by: XpyM on June 25, 2011, 09:06:01 PM
Hello everybody.
I couldn't decide in what topic I should write, so writing here. I see only guides here, so delete my post if it's not wanted.
I like play DotS and I like Sakuya, but think she is weak and can't understand why is she being nerfed over and over again. So I decide that just can not play her right. So could someone wright a guide "How to play Sakuya", please? Maybe just some advices in private message. Thank you.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on June 25, 2011, 09:55:46 PM
If it makes you feel any better none of us understand half of the changes the devs make either :V

As for a guide getting made most people around here don't write guides. It was a thing that kinda happened for a week or 2 then just stopped because everyone is like "Durr all heros are easy."

On a side note one of the new Weathers is 522 ms.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 25, 2011, 10:18:43 PM
Meiling is temporarily banned until the stupid Devs learn to test their stuff proper before releasing.

Reason:
- Missing model aka invisible
Title: Re: [WC3 - DotS] Strategic guides on Girls.
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 25, 2011, 11:09:41 PM
Hello everybody.
I couldn't decide in what topic I should write, so writing here. I see only guides here, so delete my post if it's not wanted.
I like play DotS and I like Sakuya, but think she is weak and can't understand why is she being nerfed over and over again. So I decide that just can not play her right. So could someone wright a guide "How to play Sakuya", please? Maybe just some advices in private message. Thank you.
There are two ways to play Sakuya.
One is to build her into a carry, like any other AGI carry.
The other is to build her burst damage when she uses her ult.

Whenever I play Sakuya, I go for the latter. What you're aiming to do with the burst damage is to build up your mana pool so that, when you use your ult, you can spam the hell out of your knives and hopefully kill the enemy right then and there.
This method probably isn't as efficient as carry Sakuya, and it's also harder to play than carry Sakuya, and it will punish you for experiencing and lag or delay, but I find it more interesting.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 25, 2011, 11:11:49 PM
I thought we went over this, building int only on sakuya yields less damage then having more agi. Its probably better to balance them both out
Title: Re: [WC3 - DotS] Strategic guides on Girls.
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 25, 2011, 11:12:49 PM
This method probably isn't as efficient as carry Sakuya, and it's also harder to play than carry Sakuya, and it will punish you for experiencing and lag or delay, but I find it more interesting.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 25, 2011, 11:14:07 PM
Yea im talking about the same method, her spamming your knives will deal more damage with having a higher agi then int
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 25, 2011, 11:15:32 PM
I'm not saying you ignore AGI altogether, you know.
Just you don't get nearly as much as you would if you were going for the carry build.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 25, 2011, 11:20:39 PM
Well im just saying building int/mp up would be a waste all together. Sakuyas ult increases mp cost percentage wise, so theres probably some break point you can come up with where getting more mp would be insufficient. Probably having 1 hakkero(for damage) on sakuya would suffice rest being agi items
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 25, 2011, 11:21:53 PM
Who knows.
I don't play Sakuya nearly enough to care about that.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 26, 2011, 01:22:27 AM
Well, I use AGI items like Kitsune Exalt to boost her damage and SubDoll for her mana. The others are up to you.

Never tried this on real people yet, but AI's are helpless with her ult. Takes 2 seconds to kill multiple AIs.

Killing 2 Birds with 1 Stone - Kill 2 birds with 1 stone

With Suika I threw a dying AI to another dying AI. Double kill LOL :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Hero999 on June 26, 2011, 02:09:36 AM
Well im just saying building int/mp up would be a waste all together. Sakuyas ult increases mp cost percentage wise, so theres probably some break point you can come up with where getting more mp would be insufficient. Probably having 1 hakkero(for damage) on sakuya would suffice rest being agi items

Int build up is now effective :3
Go Go Bow Item Int x 4 + 200 Har har har
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on June 26, 2011, 02:22:24 AM
Well, I use AGI items like Kitsune Exalt to boost her damage and SubDoll for her mana. The others are up to you.

Never tried this on real people yet, but AI's are helpless with her ult. Takes 2 seconds to kill multiple AIs.

With Suika I threw a dying AI to another dying AI. Double kill LOL :V

AI does not count.

Don't think we play at the level of the DotS AI.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 26, 2011, 02:23:45 AM
Well, I use AGI items like Kitsune Exalt to boost her damage
not a good item for sakuya tho because she has 4 active and cast any skill=exalt ended
shes good actually its just she needs many items to become effective compared to other agis
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on June 26, 2011, 02:29:38 AM
AI does not count.

Don't think we play at the level of the DotS AI.

I try to play at that level  :flowerpower:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 26, 2011, 03:34:15 AM
aw cmon don't cornering tbax-chan~...well play ai to learn how2lasthit and testing builds or get used to a hero who you wants to main not to learn the depths of the game
also dat yuuka
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 26, 2011, 12:22:00 PM
LOYAL SIDEKICK : Get 30 Assist
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on June 26, 2011, 12:45:08 PM
I try to play at that level  :flowerpower:

You play at a level of jerk :V

aw cmon don't cornering tbax-chan~...well play ai to learn how2lasthit and testing builds or get used to a hero who you wants to main not to learn the depths of the game
also dat yuuka

:V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 26, 2011, 06:27:02 PM
Tbax is fine with the girls, just needs to learn which item works better in what situations. Though I started out with somewhat same items as Tbax did :V so yea!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 27, 2011, 12:19:37 PM
Thanks hele, now I've made a new item build. So' I'll try it later
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on June 27, 2011, 05:52:46 PM
Moar achievements that I mentioned on IRC

You win at Life: Land the killing blow as Eirin with Game of Life.
Sniper: Fire Game of Life at maximum range and hit the target 5 times.
Tom and Jerry: Use Chen or Orin to chase Nazrin for at least 10k  distance continuously.
KFC: Feeder Mystia :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on June 27, 2011, 06:38:43 PM
Translated stuff about Tenshi

Daughter of Bhava Agra (Innate)
--------------------------------
Sunny - I'm in a good mood today
River Mist - Earth Sign "Sword of the Unyielding Soil" stuns for an additional 1.0s
Typhoon - Earth Sign "Sword of the Unyielding Soil" does an additional 85 damage
Tempest - Earth Sign "Sword of the Unyielding Soil" range doubled
Scorching Sun - Heaven Sign "Sword of the Divine Justice" does an additional 90 damage
Snow - Heaven Sign "Sword of the Divine Justice" stuns for an additional 0.60s
Spring Haze (it's 35 faith cost) - Heaven Sign "Sword of the Divine Justice" cooldown set to 240/strength seconds
Scarlet Mist - Earthquake "Sword of Worry and Joy" recovers an additional 5 hp
Drizzle - Earthquake "Sword of Worry and Joy" recovers an additional 5 mp
East Asian Rain (Monsoon?) - "Scarlet Weather Rhapsody of All Humankind" does an additional 25% damage
Calm - "Scarlet Weather Rhapsody of All Humankind" recovers 50% of its damage as health for allied girls



Earthquake "Sword of Worry and Joy" (R)
-------------------------------------------------------
Recovers hp and mp upon receiving physical damage.

Level 1 - Recovers 2 hp and mp.
Level 2 - Recovers 4 hp and mp.
Level 3 - Recovers 6 hp and mp.
Level 4 - Recovers 8 hp and mp.


For Rikter, a translation of Utsuho's skills. Not much missing from the wiki, except perhaps the radius of the sun and the note about the burn damage.

Utsuho

Explosion Sign "Peta Flare"
Rapidly overloads the target with energy, causing an explosion at the target and dealing damage to nearby units.

Cast range: 700
Mana cost: 75/90/105/120
Cooldown: 10/9/8/7s

Level 1 - Does 75 damage and an additional 40 damage over 3 seconds in the surrounding area.
Level 2 - Does 150 damage and an additional 80 damage over 3 seconds in the surrounding area.
Level 3 - Does 225 damage and an additional 120 damage over 3 seconds in the surrounding area.
Level 4 - Does 300 damage and an additional 160 damage over 3 seconds in the surrounding area.


"Heaven and Hell Meltdown"
Rapidly increases Utsuho's energy regeneration at the cost of suffering radiation damage to herself and units in a 450 unit radius. Lasts for 10 seconds.

Cooldown: 10s

Level 1 - Recovers 5 mp per second while suffering 5 magic damage per second of radiation damage.
Level 2 - Recovers 10 mp per second while suffering 10 magic damage per second of radiation damage.
Level 3 - Recovers 20 mp per second while suffering 20 magic damage per second of radiation damage.
Level 4 - Recovers 40 mp per second while suffering 40 magic damage per second of radiation damage.


"Abyss Nova"
Gathers and focuses internal energy at a point, glowing brighter and brighter in the process, before finally releasing it in a large explosion that deals 460 damage. Utsuho can move freely during the preparation phase.

Mana cost: 200
Cooldown: 20.5/17.0/13.5/10s

Level 1 - Preparation phase lasts for 20s.
Level 2 - Preparation phase lasts for 15s.
Level 3 - Preparation phase lasts for 10s.
Level 4 - Preparation phase lasts for 5s.


"Hell's Artificial Sun"
Creates an artificial sun that causes nearby enemies to gravitate towards it, dealing damage per second to them in the process before finally exploding, causing massive damage. The sun's gravitational pull and final explosion damage increases proportionately with time. If Utsuho's channeling is interrupted, the sun explodes immediately.

Cast range: 750
Radius of the sun: 250
Gravitational effect radius: 750
Explosion radius: 750
Mana cost: 300/400/500
Cooldown: 120s
Channeling time limit: 6.5s

Level 1 - Gravitational pull strength of 140G, burning for 80 magic damage per second and max explosion damage of 600 magic damage.
Level 2 - Gravitational pull strength of 170G, burning for 120 magic damage per second and max explosion damage of 800 magic damage.
Level 3 - Gravitational pull strength of 200G, burning for 160 magic damage per second and max explosion damage of 1000 magic damage.

(Note: Only units touching the sun (which has radius 250) suffer the burning damage over time.)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 28, 2011, 02:49:11 AM
KFC: Feeder Mystia :V
This one :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on June 28, 2011, 05:33:41 AM
Actually, the sun aura and dmg was reported already.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Nightkriss on June 28, 2011, 01:54:43 PM
What char were buffed in 966? China, Mystia, Mokou, Yuugi and ?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on June 28, 2011, 06:00:20 PM
What char were buffed in 966? China, Mystia, Mokou, Yuugi and ?
2 many 2 mention read the changelog
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on June 28, 2011, 10:01:28 PM
I'll see you in hell!:  With a ranged character, die after you attack, but before the enemy girl dies as well.
Spatial unawareness: Get ganked 5 times in 1 game.
Survivor: Be the only girl alive after a teamfight.
Flandre wannabe: Critical for one thousand damage with a character that has no critical skill.
Burble burble: Die while in water.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on June 29, 2011, 12:05:00 AM
Divine Judgment - Get 10 or more kills with Eiki's ultimate clone.
Achilles Heel - Obtain 4 Concordias.
Pocket Pals - Teleport the same Genji / Soku 3 times with Yukari's ultimate. (The Genji/Soku cannot die)
Signal Sign: Unidentified Fantastic Object - UFO down on an enemy as soon as they're recalled from Byakuren's flying saucer.
Power of the Yukkuri - Play a game with yukkuri only. Only the yukkuri is allowed to get items and fight, but the girl chosen can still farm/kill creeps.
Q.E.D - Wipe the entire team within 5 seconds using IIW's cleave.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on June 29, 2011, 06:22:43 AM
Strike Out!!! : With Suika throw an enemy girl to another enemy girl, both of them must die after the throw.
A Sign of The Devil : Get 6 kills, 6 deaths, and 6 assists
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on June 30, 2011, 09:13:49 PM
Stay off my lawn: Use Yuuka to defend a lane and don't lose any towers.
Disco queen: Do the drill dance with Iku and take out 2 opponents.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on July 05, 2011, 05:04:26 PM
I always have delays and can't aim the drill properly @_@
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 06, 2011, 10:14:28 AM
Any leads about why the devs are making those meaningless yuyuko ms buffs?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 06, 2011, 10:42:10 AM
its some kind of gag, dont think too much of it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 06, 2011, 10:46:35 AM
Yeah, it's just doesn't make any sense. I'll ignore that for now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on July 06, 2011, 01:52:08 PM
And then Yuyuko gets Aya's ultimate as innate due to a glitch
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 06, 2011, 10:06:32 PM
Inb4drama and endless arguments.

- For experimental reasons we unbanned Koishi after a discussion on TS while at the same time banning Lunasa.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 06, 2011, 11:29:22 PM
No complaints here :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on July 07, 2011, 07:14:12 AM
Nice to know, Helepolis. Looking forward to seeing Koishi in the game again.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 09, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
Note that I'm just reposting

Parsee's confirmed official movelist:

Innate: Tongue-Cut Sparrow "Jealousy of the Humble and Rich"
(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/1107060059e9b18ef57ef0f4bb.jpg)
Instantly summons a copy of herself at low health while the real Parsee hides from view, if the fake one is killed, it deals damage equal to 100+Parsee's Level x 20 damage.
Usually Parsee dies anyway since she's so paper, but it's nice to take someone down along with you. This is not a counter-attack skill, sadly.

D: Resentment "Grudge Returning"
(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/11070523141ad5277b2d345aa5.jpg)
Improves the duration of debuffs of ally and Parsee skills for every enemy heroine near Parsee, maximum 10% each.
This should be mained if you have a lot of teammates with Stun, Slow, etc. Momiji's feared Maple Vanguard now deals a maximum 5 second Stun. No point learning this if your team has Marisa, Koishi or Hatate.

F: Jealousy "Jealousy Bomber"
(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/1107052314d96a8a917d8753c9.jpg)
Throws 3 bombs that takes time to land and detonate, similar to Reimu's Yin Ynag Jade. At level 4 it deals 150 + Intelligence x 1.25 damage and 2 seconds Slow.
It takes about 1 second to hit the ground and the area of effect isn't large, but the damage it deals is powerful especially at mid-to-late game.

R: Envy "Green-Eyed Invisible Monster"
(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/1107052314b5eaf3ac100895a5.jpg)
Summons 2/3/4/5 modelless monster with green ballseyes, they have low attack but extremely high attack speed, capable of melting anything more paper than Sanae in a few seconds if they don't move. Their attacks increases equal to Parsee's level. Note, Chen's innate makes these monsters completely useless as she is capable of absorbing a set amount of small damage at 100% rate. In Starcraft 2 term's she's like a reverse Immortal, able to take on rapid and weak damage no sweat but cannot take big damage in one hit. Definitely Parsee's main skill.

W: Malice Sign "Midnight Athema Ritual in 7 seconds"
(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/1107052314318e7dd8d3ba4602.jpg)
Chooses a hero, and creates a Voodoo doll next to her. In 7 seconds the hero will immediately die unless:
-The voodoo doll is destroyed
-Parsee is killed
-Escape from 600/900/1200 of Voodoo Dolls's AoE
-Parsee leaves within 600/900/1200 of Voodoo Dolls's AoE.

If they don't die, they take damage equal to 25% of their max HP, so even if they escape or kill the Doll/Parsee, if their HP is less than 25% they STILL DIE BECAUSE I WANT THEM TO DIE.

Never use this on a Hina unless you want SELF TEAM WIPE.

Screenshots:
http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/1107052311b355d4fa1b69bb81.jpg Screenshot too big, -Hele

(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/11070523361b788997d4102880.jpg)

December almost mentions how to properly use Parsee, what to avoid, best heroes, worst enemies but I'm not going into detail(too long) but here's a default Parsee startup build and recommended items:
(http://touhou.cc/bbs/attachments/month_1107/1107052349780e276100a6ea1a.jpg)

A Wind Hat may not be the best item, but it's definitely Parsee's staple.
Why Wind Hat?
- Affected by Parsee's D
- Use it on an enemy, 3 seconds on air, 3 seconds wasted. Parsee also times her F bombs and R monsters, surround the enemy and slow, OHKO GG.
- They decide to kill you, Parsee blows herself, they can't kill you so they have to kill the doll instead, but the doll has high Armor so unless they have good nuke spells, they have to run to avoid getting OHKO'ed

If there's a lot of DPS characters (Youmu Reisen Aya Koishi Flandre etc.), get 3D after the Hat. If there are alot of spellcasters (Sanae Marisa Utsuho Lunasa) get a GHGM. A stopwatch after you have a steady MP regeneration is great too. Don't get stopwatch early as Parsee lacks MP to do so early game. IAE is another great option as it wastes another 3 seconds for the enemy. So combine Wind Hat and IAE, they only have 1 second to kill or run away from Parsee/Voodoo doll.

Finally, get something that buffs up Parsee's HP (Tsundere, Tacitus), she's paper after all.

Control Rod is great, that means lesser time for spell cooldown and mana regen. Hakkero isn't recommended, Parsee is not a nuker, she annoys and restricts heroines.

Usually you get your invisible monsters first, then Parsee terrorist bombs late game as they do sad damage early game.

In my opinion, a Bloody Parasol wouldn't be bad for Parsee either, it can be another one of Parsee's Staple. +20 Attack aura and you give it to 5 invisible monsters who deal extremely fast but low damage = ???

Note: Parsee is an Intelligence hero

Note 2: Her title is called "The Jealousy Which can Never be Released in DotS"
So...
(http://www.touhou.cc/blog/attachment/201106/29/27657_13093685917SJh.jpg)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on July 09, 2011, 03:34:50 PM
I already know what i'm going to try on parsee first thing when all we really knew about was the rumored ult.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on July 12, 2011, 09:08:59 AM
I played chen yesterday  :3 and I noticed that I may have missunderstood Chen's ultimate

Level 3 - Increases attack damage by 60. Every attack on an enemy girl increases attack damage by 40.

If I have 100-100+60 Damage, and I hit an enemy girl once, will my attack be 100-100 +100 then?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 12, 2011, 09:25:44 AM
Yes.
But the bonus damage only stays if you can continue to hit enemy girls.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on July 12, 2011, 09:30:18 AM
Yes.
But the bonus damage only stays if you can continue to hit enemy girls.
yeah, for 6 seconds as right? well yesterday it didn't change at all ^^ I watched the replay twice

thanks for information
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 12, 2011, 09:34:28 AM
I dunno, I recall Panda having numbers like +600 damage when he played Chen. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: victorino123 on July 13, 2011, 07:13:37 PM
I think someone should do a thing like that:
http://www.dx0790.com/thd/girls/Girls.html
But in english ^^
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 13, 2011, 07:24:14 PM
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines/Characters

UPS TOO LATE  :toot:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on July 21, 2011, 09:01:28 AM
.970c is apparently soon.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on July 21, 2011, 01:39:12 PM
>still no Daiyousei
>raging hard
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 21, 2011, 01:51:37 PM
Yeah, all the fairies should be added as quickly as possible. Starting with Daiyousei, Lily White/Black, Luna Child, and "the other blue fairy"
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on July 21, 2011, 06:31:29 PM
What the ef happened to the site <_<?

Too bright for my taste ;_;
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on July 22, 2011, 02:36:41 AM
What the ef happened to the site <_<?

Too cute for my taste hnnng >_<
ikr
imagine blues clues
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on July 22, 2011, 03:32:24 PM
Happy B-day to Dormio since it says B-day on this status/position.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on July 23, 2011, 10:21:38 AM
Oh btw, why did SDL's dmg got nerfed? I never asked :|
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on July 23, 2011, 02:22:19 PM
Because the Devs like to troll us...


and Parsee.. They love trolling her..
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 28, 2011, 01:20:53 AM
http://tinypic.com/r/213dy/7

WHAT, WHAT IS THIS MADNESS
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on July 28, 2011, 07:59:11 AM
http://tinypic.com/r/213dy/7

WHAT, WHAT IS THIS MADNESS

lol wut?? Costumes??

Apparently v0967a is now out... I'm a bit overwhelmed by the changes.. and a remake? wut!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on July 28, 2011, 08:03:11 AM
Mugetsu Skin?  :o
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on July 28, 2011, 08:25:30 AM
Seems so.. lol.. So much change.. v0967a is a bit too much at once.. lol
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 28, 2011, 09:47:50 AM
Fucking wiki changes took me entire morning (because also working for Uni)

Items + Girls updated except for Innates and rehauled skills/girls. Please help out editing those.

GODDAMN HAKKERO DOES NOT WORK WITH REMILIA'S SKILLS. F**** THESE DEVS FOR HATING ON REMILIA AND NERFING HER MOST RELIABLE SKILL.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on July 28, 2011, 03:51:38 PM
Fucking wiki changes took me entire morning (because also working for Uni)

Items + Girls updated except for Innates and rehauled skills/girls. Please help out editing those.

GODDAMN HAKKERO DOES NOT WORK WITH REMILIA'S SKILLS. F**** THESE DEVS FOR HATING ON REMILIA AND NERFING HER MOST RELIABLE SKILL.

well the damage got increased and CD reduced but is now magic damage without hakkero... is magic damage so "hard nerf"?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 28, 2011, 04:55:52 PM
It can be reduced using %resis. It can be blocked with Green Dam or other immunity skills.

TL DR; it sucks.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Nightkriss on July 28, 2011, 08:28:34 PM
Guys I have strange problem. It happened since 967 map. I have ping about 100-150 and fps 20-30. The same as always, but in garena, game ranger, single,lan it works fine. On the other hand BN.... is a mess. I have 1s dealy every 3-7s. 1-3s delay when someone uses skills. I thought that having map in /w3/maps/download was the cause. But in the next game I moved the map form downloads to /w3/maps and it was even worse. I had disconnect windows too. It applies only to BN MotK. AS I said garena,lan,single works fine. How can I fix it or where should I look for the cause of this issue ?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on July 28, 2011, 11:19:24 PM
Fucking wiki changes took me entire morning (because also working for Uni)

Items + Girls updated except for Innates and rehauled skills/girls. Please help out editing those.

GODDAMN HAKKERO DOES NOT WORK WITH REMILIA'S SKILLS. F**** THESE DEVS FOR HATING ON REMILIA AND NERFING HER MOST RELIABLE SKILL.
LMAO
i think only that innate is what you can call "remilia's true buff"
also what the s*** hakkero not working with nightless and teh doom spear thats just depressing

Guys I have strange problem. It happened since 967 map. I have ping about 100-150 and fps 20-30. The same as always, but in garena, game ranger, single,lan it works fine. On the other hand BN.... is a mess. I have 1s dealy every 3-7s. 1-3s delay when someone uses skills. I thought that having map in /w3/maps/download was the cause. But in the next game I moved the map form downloads to /w3/maps and it was even worse. I had disconnect windows too. It applies only to BN MotK. AS I said garena,lan,single works fine. How can I fix it or where should I look for the cause of this issue ?
huhwat we played loong time enough you still wondering why?its because the host (bot) is based on US while in garena (i assume you playing in TW dota 1) the host is based on Taiwan
for LAN games obv no delay at all duh except the pc used for hosting is made from bricks and whatnot
also i suggest to play wc3 that located on your pc not on external hard drive/usb because that causes lag
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on July 29, 2011, 09:38:18 AM
... So someone explain this Yuyuko + Youmu relationship thing..

Says "-Yuyuko's relationship with Youmu is now +1" in the change log..

I'm puzzled..
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Nightkriss on July 29, 2011, 10:14:24 AM
wc3 is on internal drive. Taiwan or USA makes no difference because both are far away from me ;P Bu before 967 I didn't get any delays on MotK. It all started when Sakuya broke ;<
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on July 29, 2011, 10:33:26 AM
... So someone explain this Yuyuko + Youmu relationship thing..

Says "-Yuyuko's relationship with Youmu is now +1" in the change log..

I'm puzzled..

Devs trolling.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on July 29, 2011, 12:33:52 PM
wc3 is on internal drive. Taiwan or USA makes no difference because both are far away from me ;P Bu before 967 I didn't get any delays on MotK. It all started when Sakuya broke ;<
either your PC or because we using different bot (reisen)

Devs trolling.
^
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 29, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
Actually hakkero does effect remi's skills. HI5 for dev tools  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on July 29, 2011, 08:39:38 PM
zzz is IRC down? Both the webchat link + mIRC isn't able to connect to server.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 29, 2011, 08:40:45 PM
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10388.0.html
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 30, 2011, 07:57:16 AM
Poll added for experimental unbanning of two more girls.

Please vote + post your what you have voted. I want to see who voted from our community so we don't get people from non-dots voting in favour. I will be counting the votes INSIDE the posts, so the poll is just a guide for me.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on July 30, 2011, 07:58:49 AM
Might as well tell people to PM you their votes then.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 30, 2011, 07:59:45 AM
Might as well tell people to PM you their votes then.
PM spam, too troublesome =.=
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on July 30, 2011, 08:00:15 AM
I'm for sunny getting unbanned.  With that nerf hammer hitting her hard, her role seems obvious.  Strong early game, harasser, and late game she is designed to simply stun and pick off low hp heroes.  Her no cost only screams "You harass a lot!" at me.

Wriggle though?  Hah.  Not until they hit her hard with the nerf hammer.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 30, 2011, 08:02:49 AM
Voted sunny milk only , the nerf looks reasonable enough to test her out in combat. Wriggle they just increased the scaling again of her insects so gtfo wriggle :[

why don't they just nerf her beetles and fade time then she is goddamn fine.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 30, 2011, 08:05:56 AM
Voted for Sunny Milk only.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Tapsa on July 30, 2011, 08:08:10 AM
Sunny should be unbanned because I haven't even seen in the first place why she is so bad.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on July 30, 2011, 08:26:52 AM
What is the Sunny Milk nerf?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 30, 2011, 08:29:27 AM
Not much, mostly reduced movement speed bonus and removal of bonus damage from her windwalk.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on July 30, 2011, 08:43:04 AM
Sunny was banned in the first place because no mana cost and quite possibly the strongest early game of every hero, which I think at the time, meant due to how Wriggle is, made us all afraid that we'd have another wriggle.

Except her skills don't scale so well.

Edit: At least I think that's what happened.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Yukarin on July 30, 2011, 08:58:37 AM
I am noob, and I don't know what the fuck am I doing.

What are good characters for first-time noobs like me?

Also, I'm planning to Yukari it up. Any tips?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on July 30, 2011, 09:11:18 AM
The best entry character would either be Utsuho, Yuugi, or Tenshi.  They are simply to play and can have big payouts with their skills.

Additionally, look into our IRC channel #DotS-Meido(located in the Getting Started thead, which is stickied and just above this thread!) for where we organize games and we'll give you a proper hazing.  A trial by fire if you will.

Additionally, please use our Dots wiki(http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines) to research what a girl can do, what skills say, and items.  They are all translated, so feel free to look up what you want BEFORE you start playing.  Because knowledge is power!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 30, 2011, 09:19:10 AM
Alice

Tenshi can be a fairly good character to start off with.
All you need to really learn with Tenshi is how to manage your MP when you don't have a lot of it to spare and map awareness.
Having both of these things will help out when you start playing other characters too.
Okuu is a decent starter too, she's fairly hard to punish.
It all depends on how you want to play, though.

Pointers on Yukari:
If you don't do something about it, your survivability sucks. You should probably try to fix that.
Your auto attack sucks. Don't bother with it.
Always keep a tab on how many creeps you have.
Be aware of the timings on your skills.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on July 30, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
Another alternative might be Ran, since she pretty much needs no items to be useful and you only need to press a key to help in teamfights (well, maybe two :V)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 10:33:51 AM
Sunny unbanned only. Her skills doesn't scale that much and she's pretty killable even in early-game.
As for Wriggle, still banned. She instagibs ints by sneaking near them then attacking with D (which silences), use F, and there you go, easy kill. You can kill other girls easily by doing this.

For new players, I recommend Suwako, she can farm fast and also with your ult, you can learn to pay attention to other lanes and also learn to save allies from ganks.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on July 30, 2011, 10:35:24 AM
Ran is squishy. Minoriko rather because heals are cool.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Yukarin on July 30, 2011, 11:19:37 AM
Anybody from the girls who mostly acts like Nevermore from DoTA? I'm quite good with him, and I think I can do the same in DoTS.

EDIT: OMG PATCHOULI YOU ARE INVOKER NO I WILL NOT USE YOU
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 11:35:53 AM
Err, no. There are no skills in DotS that matches to Nevermore's, except the armor reduction aura. Kogasa has it.

For using Yukari, gap your own creeps, not enemy's because it will reduce your exp gain. If you gap your own creeps, the person laning against you will lvl up slower. Yukari plays a role in team fights, so you can't gank solo with her.
Your job is to gap escaping enemies and dropping 1 creep on them so you can get kills, massive creep drop in team fights and also saving teammates with your ult.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:14:52 PM
I honestly dont even understand why she was banned before.

- She has bad str growth
- Takes extra damage from everything
- Doesnt scale at all
- Her being a early game harass is a joke, she need all of her skills max to even harass properly else its weak
- Her ult is also terrible, with hero armour spell reduction and zun glasses it does sad damage. would probably need 30+ balls to do enough damage to someone(assuming you hit with all of them)

Im guessing some people got owned in a game or two by sunny do to her play style being new to us, but banning her was a pretty dumb ^^.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on July 30, 2011, 12:27:39 PM
Unban Wriggle (and maybe Sunny too?) only someone like Momigay and Youmulame seems more fitting to added in banlist

Anybody from the girls who mostly acts like Nevermore from DoTA? I'm quite good with him, and I think I can do the same in DoTS.
Kaguya and Shou
Kaguya plays her "razes" quite different but not rewarding anymore like what it used to (reason:uber nerf)
Shou quite resembles SF but you only have 2 razes  and it works like slayer's stun+raze
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 12:35:52 PM
- Takes extra damage from everything
- Doesnt scale at all
Takes extra damage from everything ???
Her ult scales, her str affects the number of balls she shoots.

Kaguya plays her "razes" quite different but not rewarding anymore like what it used to (reason:uber nerf)
Shou quite resembles SF but you only have 2 razes  and it works like slayer's stun+raze

Oh, I didn't realize, sorry Yukoishi Yakomeiji...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 30, 2011, 12:37:40 PM
so you can't gank solo with her.
I disagree, as will anyone that has fallen victim to gap->massdrop.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on July 30, 2011, 12:41:03 PM
- Her ult is also terrible, with hero armour spell reduction and zun glasses it does sad damage. would probably need 30+ balls to do enough damage to someone(assuming you hit with all of them)

Now this is a big laugh, I remember Sunny's ult doing extreme damage when I used her and I got hit by her. Something like 1K burst damage was taken and enough to wipe people out.

- Her being a early game harass is a joke, she need all of her skills max to even harass properly else its weak

I was able to outlane Yuyuko and Tenshi in the same lane when I was alone pretty easily just by using R.


- Doesnt scale at all

Not true, her ult scales according to her strength.

Yukari plays a role in team fights, so you can't gank solo with her.

What? Yukari can't gank solo? The heck.

Just gap the hero you're ganking and then mass drop on the area where they've been gapped.

Just wondering but have you ever played Yukari or seen Yukari being played by a real player?


Anyway in regards to the poll, I accidentally clicked to keep both banned but I'm in favor of unbanning both :V Sunny's been nerfed enough that I don't mind, still wish she had some mana cost to her skills. Wriggle is meh.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 12:44:46 PM
I disagree, as will anyone that has fallen victim to gap->massdrop.

Oh right, that combo hurts, but the fact that she's vulnerable still remains. Just don't gank in dual lanes.

Well, I'm not that pro anyway, so I make mistakes often T_T
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
None of her skills scale damage wise, my bad, and yet again her play style is new too people, shes easily counterable. Ive played many games against sunny milk and as sunny milk, she isnt easy do to her squishyness and her not scaling part. also to get 1000+ damage wouldn need 20+ balls so unless who your facing is a complete retard and wants to take damage, moving around in a circle dodges most of them. Her skills are terrible early game, her stun is 200~ aoe at early which is trying to hit with satori nuke only a little better. her laser does meh damage on its target and only deals decent damage on its one bounce. her invis seems only good right when you get it to level 4 because of being able to semi-maintain it. Did i forget to mention shes squishy? buying a tengu = gg agi carry will have fun with you all game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on July 30, 2011, 01:02:47 PM
None of her skills scale damage wise, my bad, and yet again her play style is new too people, shes easily counterable. Ive played many games against sunny milk and as sunny milk, she isnt easy do to her squishyness and her not scaling part. also to get 1000+ damage wouldn need 20+ balls so unless who your facing is a complete retard and wants to take damage, moving around in a circle dodges most of them. Her skills are terrible early game, her stun is 200~ aoe at early which is trying to hit with satori nuke only a little better. her laser does meh damage on its target and only deals decent damage on its one bounce. her invis seems only good right when you get it to level 4 because of being able to semi-maintain it. Did i forget to mention shes squishy? buying a tengu = gg agi carry will have fun with you all game.

As I said I'm willing to see how she is now that she's been nerfed.

Oh right, that combo hurts, but the fact that she's vulnerable still remains. Just don't gank in dual lanes.

Well, I'm not that pro anyway, so I make mistakes often T_T

Quick tip, get more experience before saying things.

She's not really vulnerable if she's the one ganking... She just needs to gap -> mass drop which doesn't leave a good Yukari vulnerable. 
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on July 30, 2011, 02:31:28 PM
Keep them banned~!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on July 30, 2011, 02:53:49 PM
I'd say unban sunny for awhile and see how that goes. Once people accept that true sight is a viable counter to invis and wards are not a massive resource drain then we could try Wriggle.

As for wasy starting characters Tenshi is easy. She's pretty much Earthshaker with Zeus's ultimate.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Tapsa on July 30, 2011, 04:41:57 PM
Sunny Milk's ult sounds similar to Hourai dolls' infamous danmaku spam, except the point where Sunny Milk doesn't do pure damage but magical and thus will never be able to even scratch a hero.

edit:
...moving around in a circle dodges most of them.
Wait, you can even dodge them? Another reason why the ult sucks compared to Tripwire's converging green orbs of death...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 30, 2011, 07:49:10 PM
SunnyMilk is now unbanned from regular games, just like Koishi for experimental reasons.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on July 31, 2011, 01:13:27 AM
Soo.. Who is on the banned list as of now..?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 31, 2011, 01:20:21 AM
Quote
<%Rinnosuke> Banned item/girls: Wriggle Rumia LunarBow Camera Weather Lunasa BrownBeta Alice

Alice is only on there because she's bugged right now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on July 31, 2011, 01:51:15 AM
My thoughts on Sunny Milk after playing her for a few games:

Sunny Milk is a melee Wriggle that is visible for longer.  Her skills do little, and she requires element of surprise heavily, and only late game does she start to become a brawler type that oddly enough, is not a very good brawler compared to the likes other brawlers.  Her saving grace and causes rage is her invisible.  Seriously, get a Tengu and she can't do much to her by herself.

Rage worthy, but people don't want to use countermeasures so they lose.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Stuffman on July 31, 2011, 02:43:25 AM
It's because the cost of detection is bullshit <_<

In Wriggle's case, you cannot make a profit fighting her unless you manage to kill her with every single ward you use, and someone in every lane has to have them. Wards/tengu are an enormous drain on resources.

But of course if detection was easy to get then those girls would be useless. That's why stealth in RTS games has always been a shitty mechanic, it's always all or nothing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on July 31, 2011, 04:20:46 AM
It's because the cost of detection is bullshit <_<

Dots:
Kappa Life Detector: 200gold, 1600 sight range, 1000 true sight.  Lasts 3 minutes.  2 charges
Tengu Spy Camera: 200gold, 900 sight range, 900 true sight.  Lasts 3 minutes, placeable only on trees(they cannot be destroyed by any means).  2 charges.
Baby Tengu: 750gold, 1000 true sight range, drops on death.

Dota:
Sentry Ward: 200gold, 70 sight range, 950 true sight.  Lasts 3 minutes.  2 charges.
Dust of Appearance: 180gold, all enemies within 1050 range gets revealed for 12 seconds.  2 charges.
Gem of true sight: 700 gold, 1100 true sight range, drops on death.


It's about as costly as it is in dota, and earning money is probably a lot easier in dots than dota.  Wriggle is basically Rikimaru with a +100+(lvlx10) physical attack that silences instead of 120+agility damage, more invisibility, and no slow/long silence but instead gets additional attack(bugs) that heal her for 40% damage of each bug at the end.  Which in a typical case scenario, about 300.

As for where I'm going with this... It's pretty similar to deal with Wriggle in dots as it is in dota and Rikimaru.  If you don't buy wards, have an tanker ally with a gem/true sight ability, then yes, you will rage.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Yukarin on July 31, 2011, 04:45:49 AM
As for where I'm going with this... It's pretty similar to deal with Wriggle in dots as it is in dota and Rikimaru.  If you don't buy wards, have an tanker ally with a gem/true sight ability, then yes, you will rage.

I fought Riki in DoTA with Mortred once. It was a crit fight, haha.

Also agree. With gem, Riki (And in this case, Wriggle) is useless. Perma invi bonkers woo.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: PX on July 31, 2011, 04:50:41 AM
The costs might be around the same, but the effectiveness in DotS is a lot lower. I did get a Tengu, but then proceeded to get nuked by the entire enemy team. And one of the most rage inducing parts about fighting Sunny is that she'll Windwalk, stun you, get a few attacks, and then just windwalk and run away, repeating. Even with a Tengu, Sunny will most likely just run away with that 2.4 second stun and the extra movement speed from windwalk. Wards are very inefficient considering the large lane size, the jump pads, and the forests with multiple paths through them, compared to DotA where almost everyone goes through the same 2 spots to gank. And getting a Tengu early game is a giant waste of money against Sunny considering it's very easy for you to get jumped, even if you her from a range, as the stun is more than enough for the people in lane to kill you.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on July 31, 2011, 05:03:11 AM
True enough, ganking is a lot easier in dots than dota.  But the tank with large survivability and an 'oh dear' ability, such as Suika, China, is the one to hold the gem, and that will always ring true, regardless of dota or dots.  If you pick the caster or even certain agi types, they only just die from a jungle attack, or even from fighting the invisible person.  Gem stops Wriggle pretty well on most characters, but on Sunny?... Mmm.

If I had to compare though, I'd compare Sunny to Nerubian Assassin.  It'd certainly help a lot, and you probably won't die if you know what you are doing, but the escape speed and stun makes it much harder for a one man person to get you.  Unlike Nerubian, Sunny can invis way more often and has far far weaker attacks.  More annoying than deadly if anything.

Gem won't let you kill Sunny maybe, but it'll sure make you a lot less dead.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on July 31, 2011, 08:15:12 AM
I am not happy with unban Sunny Milk to be honest, but I am open for experimental unbans when we notice girls being tweaked.

I am agreeing with Stuffman here on the concept of Stealth in RTS games. It is plain stupid and ghey. Having stealth is one thing. Having free stealth is retarded. Eirin is the only 'official' stealth caster which costs MP. The duration is pretty balanced and it doesn't grant the invisible person extra abilities.

Wriggle and Sunny are stupid because they gank abuse the element of surprise without effort and 0 skill.

I disagree heavily on the concept of "lolyou buy ward/gem, make them useless". You people make it sound easier than it is. (Yes, it is easy to buy those shit and they don't cost much perhaps). The point is: You mostly play in a 4v4 setup meaning there are more girls you should worry about. Nobody is going to spent 750 for a baby tengu early game and spamming wards too much will burn you down (see Stuffman's post). There are tons of examples I can give but it is all theorycrafting which is dumb.



I wouldn't be surprised if the Devs intentionally troll us. Sunny Milk is obviously a troll character, because she is one of the three mischievous fairies pulling pranks unseen. Well if that is the case, the devs accomplished their mission.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Yukarin on July 31, 2011, 08:59:13 AM
What about making Sunny and Wriggle a Bone Fletcher? No stun, but windwalk?

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 31, 2011, 09:33:03 AM
it doesn't grant the invisible person extra abilities.
Except for the part where it gives the target extra stats and magic resistance. :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Nightkriss on July 31, 2011, 09:45:51 AM
unban for wriggle, ban for Sunny milk.

With the new tacticus and her skills scaling with strength she is a little annoying(if not OP).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on July 31, 2011, 11:06:41 AM
unban for wriggle, ban for Sunny milk.

With the new tacticus and her skills scaling with strength she is a little annoying(if not OP).

Tacticus is banned now. And about WRIGGLE, read my comments about her :

As for Wriggle, still banned. She instagibs ints by sneaking near them then attacking with D (which silences), use F, and there you go, easy kill. You can kill other girls easily by doing this.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on July 31, 2011, 12:35:24 PM
Buying wards/Tengu extremely early is not really a viable choice to get extremely early unless you know for a fact you will be the one laning Sunny. Even then you likely wouldn't be able to capitalize on them well because she can just run away with Wind Walk.

Anyways an Ichirin model was added to the DotS map as some of you already know. After deprotecting and looking through the map it actually has animations but I found no Unzan/triggers for them.

Also Tact isn't banned people are just overreacting to a new thing
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on July 31, 2011, 03:04:30 PM
I disagree heavily on the concept of "lolyou buy ward/gem, make them useless". You people make it sound easier than it is. (Yes, it is easy to buy those shit and they don't cost much perhaps).
you can buy wards/tengu but....
DotA:invis based heroes without invis=meh
DotS:invis based heroes without invis=still rapes soon or later
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 31, 2011, 08:53:04 PM
Any money that you spend on detection is money that you're not using to buff up yourself, whilst the enemy team doesn't have to worry at all about wasting money on detection if you don't have a stealth hero on your side.
Which is lame.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on July 31, 2011, 10:41:52 PM
Oh i see people would rather use that 750/200 gold on there control rods, phoenix wings, tacticus and such. Rather then getting a myon or tengu because those items are junk right? why should we auto counter one squishy hero when we can get those really nice items? wards last 3 mins, that means there are plenty of creep wave spawns to farm that 200 gold back. 3 minutes should be enough time to siege or defend. Oh right we get 2 wards for 200 gold, so if you place one at a time we get 6 mins of anti invis?

Guys come on, unless youre horrendous at  farming or you played satori, money isnt that much of any issue. Saying everyone has to buy them for there lane is not correct. Most mid games i see nowadays i see everyone go mid and start pushing or go left/right and push side tower down so having one person with a tengu/carry wards is viable. Im not saying wriggle isnt op(i hate her new D) but they do have a counter, ive played many matches on TW with people playing sunny and wriggle and i do have to say getting a tengu really helps.

If you want to ban girls with perma invis with awesome effects you may want to ban eirin also, it looks pretty bs to me.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on July 31, 2011, 10:55:19 PM
I do buy tengu and the like. :V
Nobody else on my team was buying detection though. :(

I just dislike how you need to waste money for a hero that may or may not be wherever the hell you set up your detection.

I thought wards were shorter than 3 mins, that's good to know.

I'm not opposed to the Sunny unban (Wriggle can go die in a fire for all I care though) I just dislike the invis things. Dislike = Subjective
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on August 01, 2011, 06:38:02 AM
In theory, yes we're supposed to buy those items. And I do admit that even though I know I'm supposed to, I don't exactly want to. It's the same kind of countermeasure as buying mag res against nukers. I consider it one of those differences between a noob/casual and a pro/serious player. Noobs don't make the nuance plays that are indicative of playing for the long term.

Assuming equal play skill between a Sunny and some other girl. Spend 200 on wards. Sunny creeps in and you kill Sunny because you planted wards. Get 200 gold back from the kill. You're effectively about 50 gold ahead now because you got your money back and have 1 more ward still.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on August 01, 2011, 09:53:12 AM
I think Sunny's invis is not the real problem in here. It's the stun that got a nerf and that stupid ultimate danmaku thing.
You just have to wait till the enemy is alone and noone is in disable range, then you stun and press W, you win  :V just like that stupid suika ultimate.  :D

*cough* Koishi vs Suika bash duel
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on August 01, 2011, 12:17:03 PM
So guys I was going through the ability data to find where certain values are so they could be edited should anything go through with the balance stuff.

Important things I learned

"Shou's "Complete Clarification" damage increased from 220/330/440 to 250/375/500" -This change never happened

And there are 2 skills one labeled Kumoi01 and the other KumoiUZ1
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on August 01, 2011, 01:08:08 PM
I'm neutral but i will say this. Support heroes should be the one who buys tengu/wards but the thing is we have roflmao aya with permaslardarsprint youmu with zomg -48armor mokou with zomg lv 1 lionulti AoE and you still dares to buy ward/tengu 24/7 you serious? Can Satori snipes people with 800 hp only? Can Ran tank like a god if her items are only broom+2 kebabs? Can Sanae avoid 0-15 score only with bento+cards at 9-10 mins? All the answers obv no
TL;DR supports should be the one who buys wards/tengus BUT they needs some farm too so don't expect you can see invis that easy (except someone is strong enough to carry tengu and early tengu is nono except you went push strat)
the metagame is really different compared to dota/hon/any AoS maps you can name
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on August 01, 2011, 04:43:12 PM
Assist in a kill and you have almost the gold for the wards (not the tengu... who gets tengu early game? unless you are steamrolling).

Also:

 Can Ran tank like a god if her items are only broom+2 kebabs? Yes, press W :V. Satori can't get items anyway even without buying wards/tengu, her farming sucks...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on August 01, 2011, 08:18:18 PM
Can Ran tank like a god if her items are only broom+2 kebabs? Yes, press W :V.
no
why?because Ran was my main and i can tell you that
Also i assume the situation is where both teams has both decent players so no zomg Shou went SF youtube style or w/e that is (that means both teams got simillar score at early-mid) so assist gold isn't that much useful because enemy ganks you too as much as you do)
of course you get much assist gold when your team steamrolls hard but whats the point of buying wards/tengu if your team got like 20-0 at about 25 mins?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on August 01, 2011, 09:31:56 PM
[04:28] <tbax704> is lucky finished yet
[04:28] <M-Reimu> [06:28] <tbax704> is lucky finished yet  < ask this 3 months later
[04:30] <Infinity> [07:28] <M-Reimu> [06:28] <tbax704> is lucky finished yet  < ask this 8 months later
[04:31] <Dorakyura> [23:30] <Infinity> [07:28] <M-Reimu> [06:28] <tbax704> is lucky finished yet  < ask never again
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on August 02, 2011, 03:54:35 AM
My thoughts on Sunny Milk after playing her for a few games:

Sunny Milk is a melee Wriggle that is visible for longer.  Her skills do little, and she requires element of surprise heavily, and only late game does she start to become a brawler type that oddly enough, is not a very good brawler compared to the likes other brawlers.  Her saving grace and causes rage is her invisible.  Seriously, get a Tengu and she can't do much to her by herself.

Rage worthy, but people don't want to use countermeasures so they lose.

I disagree completely, Sunny is fairly frightening early game and I played her for a while too. If you know how to use her R right it's a pretty amazing laning tool early on and her windwalk works wonders not only due to invisible but faster MS. Her ult is also rather painful for most early on. But she is more balanced with her latest nerfs so I'm happy.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on August 02, 2011, 04:11:01 AM
no she has terrible strength growth, terrible damage, only viable thing about her is ability to run around and stun people in a tiny aoe but even then they would have to be slow fat or standing still to get hit by it. Patchy can pull off more damage with just her ficus, except its aoe, can do more damage, and can actually kill people. while sunny would have to spam her spells on cd just to reach that damage. She has little nuke damage, she has abysmal str, squishy do to her innate, and cant right click. Only viable thing is her ability to surprise people but after that she cant really follow up on that unless she has allies or some how got farmed from last hitting.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on August 02, 2011, 07:20:06 AM
Thats why ppl in garena use SDL as her core because she needs to constant gank
whats more shes not a really fast farmer (and shes not supposed to farm 24/7 for the 1st 30 mins lol)
i don't get it why devs nerf all the damages from all her skills instead of putting manacost for each of them
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on August 02, 2011, 12:07:05 PM
i don't get it why devs nerf all the damages from all her skills instead of putting manacost for each of them
Troll character I tell you. I see no other reason for it. Because it makes no sense. So must be troll.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on August 02, 2011, 08:31:05 PM
So apparently some of Patchy's skills crit? I for sure saw Ficus do so. Should we test?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on August 03, 2011, 12:28:40 AM
So apparently some of Patchy's skills crit? I for sure saw Ficus do so. Should we test?

Fairly sure anything that's physical damage crits now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on August 05, 2011, 04:13:36 PM
for those who dont lurk enough over at DS lucky got a english board over on a chinese website  :V

so i guess you can go post stuff there i guess

http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/forumdisplay.php?fid=115&page=1
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Yukarin on August 06, 2011, 08:52:22 AM
Holy Rumia.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on August 11, 2011, 02:31:04 PM
Might as well just record this little fact about Mugetsu here for now.

If Yukari, Tewi, Yuuka, Sakuya, Reimu, Alice and Marisa are selected, the last hero, if random, will be Mugetsu. Otherwise, the chance of selecting Mugetsu through random-ing is 1/1000.

To see how she plays like, this is a video recorded by a Chinese player introducing the hero - http://www.bilibili.tv/video/av127789/

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on August 12, 2011, 12:42:51 PM
Did you know?

Just to highlight: Blonde dude (aka Is that enough armour item) stacks with Keine's passive ability.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2ij6ec9.jpg)
My Keine was lvl 25.

Though it doesn't seem to be exactly 50% in total. Otherwise I should've had 45s in Ex mode. So the bonus is applied separately as Dorakyura explained on IRC.

Also nice to know:

Also, Moderators (**** QBs) will hit faster if your girl has more AS (not AGI). It seems that the Attack speed modifier such as on Subdoll etc add to the Moderators hit speed. Momiji's endurance aura greatly enhances their attack speed.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on August 14, 2011, 05:47:58 AM
Epic teamwipe taken off touhou.cc. Probably related to one of the achievements in Dular's post.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/b683yt.jpg)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 14, 2011, 05:51:46 AM
... shiZEUSha.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on August 23, 2011, 11:02:12 AM
Hey guys... I just brought a friend of mine into DotS...  *he has everything I have. Bnet, Pvpgn loader, Fontcraft, WVS, and he is using 1.26..* We tried using BNet 1st and both of us were able to log on.. We could see each others hosted game but nether of us could join the others game... What could be causing this issue?? I had it this before with another friend but we quickly went to *eww* Garena to play.. Any help?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on August 23, 2011, 11:05:30 AM
Forward your ports.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on August 23, 2011, 11:09:35 AM
Ports 6112-6119, to be specific.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on August 23, 2011, 11:55:51 AM
Hey guys... I just brought a friend of mine into DotS...  *he has everything I have. Bnet, Pvpgn loader, Fontcraft, WVS, and he is using 1.26..* We tried using BNet 1st and both of us were able to log on.. We could see each others hosted game but nether of us could join the others game... What could be causing this issue?? I had it this before with another friend but we quickly went to *eww* Garena to play.. Any help?

When you want to use bnet or pvpgn bnet, you have to set the TCP and UDP ports 6112-6119, as Dormio said already.
But you also have to check if your computer allows incoming traffic on these ports (local firewall)
On XP you can just disable the firewall, on Win7 you should also disable the firewall service because it might block even when it's disabled.

When you use a firewall program, you should either disable it or allow all ingoing traffic for the program and for the "System" service ("System"Service has to forward the IP informationen to the specified program, therefore it gets all ethernet traffic (can't remember the right name of it, I can help when I'm at home ^^))
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on August 24, 2011, 11:03:04 AM
I just realised our old girl guides are useless. Mainly because DotS changed major due to item changes and girls.

I just finished updating Chiko (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9096.msg580642.html#msg580642). She is now based on 0.967f. Will soon add Komachi and later on adjust Remilia as well.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on August 25, 2011, 04:56:46 AM
Ugh, I want to scrap my old guide. What with Yamame's changes, her playstyle is a lot more aggressive now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on August 25, 2011, 07:07:27 AM
Here are some quick Chinese video tutorials on how to use...

.... Yuugi in 15 seconds: http://static.youku.com/v1.0.0182/v/swf/loader.swf?VideoIDS=XMjk4MTAxMjcy&embedid=-&showAd=0

.... Youmu in 15 seconds: http://www.bilibili.tv/video/av135015/

 :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on August 25, 2011, 07:24:23 AM
trololololo videos.

@ Amra, its because of them devs man.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on August 25, 2011, 08:39:17 AM
Ugh, I want to scrap my old guide. What with Yamame's changes, her playstyle is banned now.

Fixed  :V

the videos, trololol, special thanks to the german raging kid (ICH WILL UT SPIELEN!)

You could make an how to Komachi in 15 Seconds out of this:  (for those who haven't seen it yet :-P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V749kJRfIB0&hd=1
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on August 25, 2011, 12:57:43 PM
0.967g  released people. Some fair and unfair changes. Read Aph's changelist and

MAKE SURE YOU DOWNLOAD THE MAP SO WE DONT HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOU. I'LL GUNGNIR ANYBODY WHO DOESNT HAVE THE MAP

Now it is time for tea.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Night4ce on August 27, 2011, 11:23:07 AM
When you want to use bnet or pvpgn bnet, you have to set the TCP and UDP ports 6112-6119, as Dormio said already.
But you also have to check if your computer allows incoming traffic on these ports (local firewall)
On XP you can just disable the firewall, on Win7 you should also disable the firewall service because it might block even when it's disabled.

When you use a firewall program, you should either disable it or allow all ingoing traffic for the program and for the "System" service ("System"Service has to forward the IP informationen to the specified program, therefore it gets all ethernet traffic (can't remember the right name of it, I can help when I'm at home ^^))

Thanks.. Didn't know what ports Bnet used.. I got them allowed on my laptop but my router doesn't have enough space for the new ports.. Damn.. I have too much shit port forwarded..
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on August 27, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
You only need 1 port forwarded for your computer to be able to host, e.g. forwarding port 6112 to your desktop will allow it to host on bnet/pvpgn. If you want more than 1 computer to be able to host, you need to forward a different port between 6112 and 6119 to each of the computers, e.g. 6112 to your desktop and 6113 to your laptop. For computers that use ports other than 6112, you need to indicate which port you're using under Options->Gameplay in WC3.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 01, 2011, 08:18:06 PM
Do we need another lesson on what counts as backdoor again?  :fail:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: EyeMtheStron9est on September 01, 2011, 08:22:06 PM
Hey there. I just wanted to ask how to start up playing this. I have WC3 and I have a bunch of touhou maps (and some other maps) that the bot list didn't have. Is there someone to talk to/somewhere to go/blah blah to set up on playing with you guys?

Skipped one line** Will redo the initial post.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 01, 2011, 08:23:32 PM
Its all right here http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.0.html
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on September 01, 2011, 08:24:35 PM
Why not just add backdoor to @bans and define it, would clear it up for everyone.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: EyeMtheStron9est on September 01, 2011, 08:24:47 PM
Its all right here http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.0.html

Thanks. The 'click here' was off-limits to me.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 01, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
Thanks. The 'click here' was off-limits to me.

Do join the IRC channel #dots-meido if you haven't already though. It's where games are organized. Instructions here: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16.msg70.html#msg70
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 01, 2011, 08:45:41 PM
FINE IF I MUST DEFINE WHAT BACKDOOR IS!

EXAMPLES:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on September 01, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
9. Using Suika ult only to attack tower, then run away after the duration ends :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 01, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
uhhh kinda already said attacking tower with no creeps around
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on September 01, 2011, 11:45:56 PM
mini suikas are totally creeps  :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on September 02, 2011, 12:51:27 AM
well, I think we could just define bd as "attacking enemy buildings when enemy creeps are behind you in the lane."
So after you cleared all the enemy creeps behind you, I'd say having eiki clone tank the tower, (or yamame spider, or w/e) until your creeps have arrived wouldn't be bd.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 02, 2011, 02:38:52 AM
but youd also be stopping the creep wave from going past you if you were tanky enough(or summons). which leads to the point that youre attacking enemy towers way ahead of creep wave.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on September 02, 2011, 03:27:27 AM
If a natural creep wave isn't within the sight range of player owned units that are attacking a tower that's back dooring. This applies to spells as much as it does to summons and normal attacking. And this does not mean you can be retarded and say "OH I HAD VISION BECAUSE TENSHI SWR SO I WAS IN SIGHT RANGE". Any creeps that are brought to the area via spells does not change that you are backdooring.

Get it through your skulls, it's not that hard to know what backdooring is.

And if I see people backdooring ingame I'm warning them, then kicking if they want to act retardedly.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 02, 2011, 06:53:42 AM
Oh boy, this discussion again. I think stuff was already said. It is not hard to define backdooring yourself. Common sense, all you need. (inb4commonsensejokes)

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on September 02, 2011, 06:59:00 AM
Common Sense, wh-

(inb4commonsensejokes)
Damn it, Helepolis!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 02, 2011, 07:41:35 AM
I did bd and I'm sorry, the creeps were max 1800 distance behind the clone and there where no creeps between the clone an the creeps, but a creepwave just spawned. :blush: I pulled the clone back (quite late),   killed the new creepwave and attack the tower again, in the meantime the creeps were in line of sight about 800 distance away.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 02, 2011, 08:09:27 AM
well, I think we could just define bd as "attacking enemy buildings when enemy creeps are behind you in the lane."

I think this is a good working definition of bd. If the enemy creep wave has moved far ahead enough to be out of the TOWER's attack range, attacking said tower is backdooring.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 02, 2011, 09:10:46 AM
ERRR yet again whats stops you from taking next creep wave while creep wave behind you dies, then you start attacking tower while YOUR creeps arent even there.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 02, 2011, 09:13:14 AM
Tank the tower at your own risk.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 02, 2011, 09:17:30 AM
You have to see an assault on the tower as green light traffic. If your creep wave is within tower range, you get green light to assault. If your creep wave dies after the 'green light', you still remain eligible to hit the tower until you die or pull back. Some people pull back out of risky reasons or "fair sports" (aka even if I am eligible, I just keep it fun)

Common sense, it is not hard. (inb4commonsensejokes#2)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 02, 2011, 09:19:04 AM
People still like to try beat the amber/yellow/red light :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 02, 2011, 09:23:04 AM
Which is again common sense. If you ask yourself the question whether you are being a dick/lamer , and if the answer is  yes or close to yes, it remains yes. There is no in between, it's either: yes, I am backdooring. No, I am BE OF GOOD CHEER SPORTS.

(inb4commonsensejoke#3)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 02, 2011, 09:33:49 AM
When you drive a tank, you don't care what light it is.

If a traffic cop happens to be there, you still get a ticket :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 02, 2011, 09:37:25 AM
"I am sorry officer, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my awesome tank"
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 02, 2011, 09:38:00 AM
what if you run the cop down, do you still  get a ticket?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 02, 2011, 09:43:55 AM
Then you win at life.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on September 03, 2011, 01:42:10 PM
No, when the cop sees you, you say "Whiskey, officer?" *trollface*
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on September 05, 2011, 01:43:38 PM
More cops will try and give you more ticke- I mean... more cops will come to taste you butthole.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BrownBeta on September 11, 2011, 10:58:33 PM
UNBANNN RUMIAAAAAA

shes pretty easy to counter anyway all you need is a ward in team battles and run when she uses D :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 11, 2011, 10:59:52 PM
you dumb? that only counter her d. lrn2playfirst
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 11, 2011, 11:00:34 PM
Running is lame. Slam a ward and chain disable her.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on September 11, 2011, 11:01:02 PM
Ban everyone.
Yukkuri only.
No items.
3 Stock.
Mid only.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: BrownBeta on September 11, 2011, 11:17:54 PM
you dumb? that only counter her d. lrn2playfirst

Rumia without D == soft tingz
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: PX on September 11, 2011, 11:41:57 PM
Ban everyone.
Yukkuri only.
No items.
3 Stock.
Mid only.
Final Destination
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on September 11, 2011, 11:58:01 PM
conc yukkuris whar?

*I'd say SDL but derp you can't SDL yukkuris :< (they're wards)*

Well... you can kill Rumia pretty easily with wards + camera, and a farmed agi  (at least lvl 16 or so)with ada or some other hp item. Thing is you need at LEAST 30 min to farm that much, while Rumia can start snowballing at lvl 6...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on September 12, 2011, 02:27:01 AM
Final Destination

But it's imbalanced

I am also not trolling when I say this.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 12, 2011, 07:17:25 AM
UNBANNN RUMIAAAAAA

shes pretty easy to counter anyway all you need is a ward in team battles and run when she uses D :V
so a girl who can got like 12-0 score with str Llama and cards while playing with mouse only is not imba
niiice
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on September 12, 2011, 07:58:31 AM
Rumia > not manly.
She`ll just d or eat you when she`s dying.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 12, 2011, 08:00:11 AM
I hope you guys know Brown was only posting that to up his postcount. It's not a serious discussion.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 12, 2011, 04:16:04 PM
I hope you guys know Brown was only posting that to up his postcount. It's not a serious discussion.
I'M ASHAMED NOW QQ
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on September 12, 2011, 07:25:16 PM
So a couple days ago I said "Man, dots would be so much cooler with like.. A mini-agahnim."  So I made one, much to the scorn of people saying I should make blademail.  :V

Of course this item probably isn't very balanced right now, so I'm posting it here and see what opinions I can get on it before I submit it to the dots devs, who will probably ignore it and never put it in because of massive extra coding.

Sword of Kusunagi
+10 to all stats
+250hp
+150mp
+10 attack
+3 armor
Improves skills of girls

Recipe
One +10 stat item-1000
Zun Hat-1200
Fruit Knife-400
Grand Dress-250
recipe-1300
Total-4150

Suika-Qi of Oni "Deep Fog Labyrinth" lasts 1 second longer at all levels
Chen-Heaven Sign "Immortal Sage's Rumbling" increased to 42% chance
Ran-Shikigami's Radiance "Fox-Tanuki Youkai Laser" increases damage to 135/170/205/240, and increases bounces by 2.
Yukari-Outer Force "Semi-Bordered Flying Object" deals 10% of the dropped creeps current hp.
Marisa-Ritualise Space "Orreries Solar System" gets an additional familiar.
Reimu-Treasure Sign "Yin-Yang Jade" gets a fourth bounce, also doing 1/3 damage
Yuugi-Oni Sign "Mysterious Powers and Disrupting Spirits" gets an additional +10 strength
Komachi-Soul Sign "Soul Games", you do not take damage for 2 seconds after switching, enemy does take not damage for 1 second.
Eiki-Judgement "Bar of the Ten Kings" becomes every [8-current guilt] from [10-current guilt].
Keine-all skills now have max level 8.  Full Moon "Creation of the Future - Lunatic Moon" increases all skill levels by 2/3/4.  Ikarunga becomes 7 second cooldown at level 8, Buretsu Crisis becomes 7 second cooldown at level 8, Headbutt becomes 300 bonus damage, 1.0 stun, 750 blink range at level 8.
Mokou-Hourai "Fujiyama Volcano", each attack adds 10/15/20/25% attack speed, phoenix flame becomes 25% chance to proc.
Alice-Shanghai dolls get 6hp with each point of intelligence, New England and Hourai get 5hp per point of intelligence.
Koakuma-Taboo Grimoire Index gets an additional bounce at all levels.
Meiling-Supreme Colour "Colourful Light Chaotic Dance" decreased cooldown to .75 seconds, and increases radius to 275
Patchouli-Sun Sign "Grimoire of the Sun" boosts all spell damage to 21.5%, Moon Sign "Grimoire of the Moon" recovers 35% of the mana cost.
Flandre-Clones now get 3/6/9/12 bonus chaos attack based on the level of Laevateinn
Sakuya-Time Sign "Sakuya's Special Stopwatch" throws two knives side by side instead of one, and each knife now does 70% damage.
Remilia-Scarlet Sign "Bloody Magic Square" converts 12/16/20/24% damage into health.
Lily-Lily's Lake/River of the Wild lasts 5.5/6.0/6.5/7.0 seconds and heals 18/36/54/72 hp.
Lyrica-Gensokyo's Phantasmal Music lowers enemies stats by 4/8/12/16.
Merlin-Maddening Fantasy Music grants 5hp/sec regen.
Lunasa-Violinist "Melancholic Strings" adds 10/20/30/40 magic damage, and her target now takes 3/4/5/6 additional magic % damage from each attack.
Youmu-Enlightened Sword "Rise from Delusion" now decreases armor by 1/2/3/4 per hit.
Yuyuko-Deadly Dance "Law of Mortality" also does 10/20/30/40 damage in a 600 AoE whenever Yuyuko kills a creep.
Kisume-Well Bucket "Well Destructor" only requires 3 charges, and gets a bonus of +25 damage.
Yamame-Disease Sign Miasma-filled Grounds lasts 15 seconds and does 6.5% Yamame's and Spiders damage.
Koishi-Rekindled "The Embers of Love" range increased to 1500 range, and gives 7/10/13/16 increased attack.
Satori-Recollection "Terrible Souvenir" has max charge of 8.
Orin-Resurrected Zombies now gain 10% attack damage based off Orin's attack damage.
Utsuho-Hell's Tokamak reduces magic resistance by an additional 4%
Sanae-Esoterica "Forgotten Ritual" occurs once every 30/25/20/15 seconds and heals hp as well as mp.
Kanako-"Battle Field" now strikes twice every .75 seconds instead of once.
Suwako-Native God "The Red Frog in the Fourth Year of the Houei Era" gets an additional lightning flash at all levels.
Hina-Wound Sign "Exiled Doll" creates 4/5/6/7 dolls.
Shizuha-Autumn Sign "The Autumn Sky and a Maiden's Sleep" bonus damage lasts 30 seconds, and sleeps for 8/7/6/5 seconds.
Minoriko-Honesty Sign "Apple" heals 100+7.5%/150+10%/200+12.5%/250+15% as well as damage/novas for 75/100/125/150
Aya-Agi multiplier becomes .8/1.0/1.2/1.4 for Wind Sign "Wind God Fan".
Hatate-Continuous Shooting "Rapid Shot" lasts 6 seconds.
Momiji-Dog Sign "Rabies" increases to 2.5x critical damage
Nitori-Optics "Photon Cannon Cucumber.II" increases range to 2500 and does 230/310/390/470 damage.
Tenshi-Earthquake "Sword of Worry and Joy" gets a 1/2/3/4% chance to negate all damage for .1 second.
Iku-Light Star "Dragon God's Sigh" increases chance to 14/16/18/20%
Cirno-"Eye!  Am the Strongest!" does 90/110/130/150 cold damage and 75/85/95/105 cold area damage to nearby enemies.
Rumia-Sealed "Darkness Cycle" grants an additional 8% evasion and 8% magic resistance.
Wriggle-Wriggle Sign "Night Bug Tornado" summons 7/10/13/16 insects and lasts 9/10.5/12/13.5 seconds.
Mystia-Night-Blindness "Song of the Night Sparrow" to 500 range, and lasts one second longer.
Letty-Cold Sign "Lingering Cold" increases Winter Sign "Flower Wither Away" damage by 5/10/15/20.
Yuuka-Now gains 6 attack per sunflower.
Eirin-"Brain of the Moon" gains +1 int every 71 seconds.
Kaguya-Imperishable Night "Rising World" reduced to 16%+150 mana to revive.
Reisen-Lunatic Gaze "Lunatic Stare Tuning (Illusion Seeker)" Reisen now has 13.5% chance to create copies, copies have 3.5% chance to create copies.
Tewi-Cunning Rabbit "Ancient Duper" lasts 300 seconds and detection range increases to 150 range
Sunny Milk-Light Sign "Blue Deflection" bounces a third time, dealing 150% of its original damage.
Medicine-Confusion Sign "Into Delirium" deals 2.5% of their maximum health as magic damage each second.
Kogasa-Umbrella "Super-Water Repelling Bone-Dry Monster" now grants 10/15/20/25 agility, and lasts one second longer.
Nazrin-Rod Sign "Busy Rod" chance increased to 24/32/40/48%
Murasa-Nice Boat "Spinach" lasts 1.5 seconds longer.
Shou-Vajra of Perfect Buddhism lasts 6 seconds, and gives 12/16/20/24 bonus armour
Byakuren-Light Magic "Star Maelstrom" costs and deals 25% Byakuren's max spirit.
Nue-Nightmare in Heiankyo gives 12.25/26.50/40.75/55.00 bonus magic damage.

I will be submitting it whether anyone says to or not, so don't say "Dude don't submit it, waste of time."  Why not try to make it more submit-worthy instead?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 12, 2011, 08:19:32 PM
mmm  good idea but some girls doesn't get much benefit from that item (like yamame and rumia) noway they gonna spent 4350 for such a small upgrade rite
while some girls can become really broken (eiki and momizi)
but well the idea is ok and numbers can be adjusted easily
my suggestion is make the price cheaper its mini aghanim where it upgrades one of non ulti skill
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on September 12, 2011, 09:05:07 PM
Orin's Zombies getting attack speed based off of Orin's attack seems a bit weird and doesn't seem natural. I personally think it would make more sense if it gave the zombies bonus damage based on a % of her damage (Or have Orin gain damage based on the number of Zombies active but that would probably be even more ridiculous).

I'll post more comments/ideas when I feel like it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Ace-Royale on September 12, 2011, 10:23:58 PM
"Flandre' - Taboo "Lavatein" slows an additional 2%, and stacks once more." is ridiculously broken. 70% aspd/mspd slow (practically a permaslow, about as troll as Letty's ult) is DEFINITELY not something Flandre should have, especially since this item is only 4350 - about 950 gold cheaper than Frozen Frog, and gives better stats.

I would suggest either -
*clones last 2-3 seconds longer
*clones have extra 5% atk
or if you want to keep the bonus for laevateinn -
*Laevateinn gives additional 5/10/15/20 chaos damage per strike.

on the other hand,Kaguya-"Help Me Eirin!" requires 4/3/2/1 second(s) channeling time. seems really weak. 2 seconds is usually enough to rescue someone, assuming they aren't made of paper with only 1k hp. I would suggest an extra 20/30 damage per danmaku pillar (140/210 in total), passive change to 17% + 150 MP, or reducing cooldown of her ward by 15 or so seconds.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on September 13, 2011, 12:44:36 AM
Okey dokey, I lowered the price by 200 gold, Rikter Orin's buff means damage, I'm sorry you were confused that it was attack speed, even though there wasn't any mention of attack speed.
Changed Flandre's buff to "Clones get 3/6/9/12 bonus chaos damage from leveling Laevateinn"
Changed Kaguya's to Imperishable Night "Rising World" needs 16%+150 mana to revive.
Eiki changed from 5-current guilt to 8-current guilt
Rumia's effect increased to 8%.

Not sure what to do about Yamame though.  I definitely do not want to buff spiders further.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on September 13, 2011, 03:15:03 AM
When in doubt about Yamame, call Amra. :V
1) Increase chance of Miasma
2) Let it rebounce to already afflicted
3) Increase number of bounces.

Or do something about ult. Like, adds damage equal to Yamame's with each use. Basically a free attack with each cast.
Or do something with Net. Increase AoE, make it so that netted units also randomly net one unit adjacent (increased duration of disable if one person gets netted multiple times due to RNG)
Or make the innate's damage come out faster.

Hina's is a little weak, since they bork so often. Give them a small amount of damage reduction as well, maybe? 15 or so. Or improve the percentages on link or spin.
Satori's is also a little meh.
Aya's is kinda useless.
Hatate's is ridiculous.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on September 13, 2011, 03:55:13 AM
Okay Yamame will now.. Um... Her innate does 10% damage as disease but now only lasts 6 seconds... No.. Um... Lasts 15 seconds and is.. 6.5%.  That sounds about right.

Satori's is about right I think.  Extra 140 damage, another .2 second stun, and it's a lot more powerful in teamfights when everyone is spamming.  It's probably about fine.

Aya is tough, but I'll change it to "Illusionary Dominance stuns for one second whenever you hit someone."

Hatate is also fine.  She remains as weak as ever to disables.  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on September 13, 2011, 12:22:17 PM
I could have sworn I saw attack speed there.

And giving Aya a disable is just no. While they already have one it is at least not very good.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on September 14, 2011, 02:11:28 AM
Tornado speed rape is enough for Aya's purposes. Really, all domination stun serves to do is be redundant. Unless she perfectly hits someone in the midst of dash, she takes a second to get to them anyway. So it's either dash next to someone and rape, dash past someone, walk to them, then rape, or somehow perfectly land a dash slightly past someone and rape more than usual. What you gonna do?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on September 14, 2011, 05:44:45 PM
Call the Ghostbusters ???
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on September 15, 2011, 12:31:13 AM
Also, if it lasts 15 seconds, be specific about the interval. Normal poison lasts for 12s, does 5% per tick, and ticks every 2s.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on September 15, 2011, 05:37:41 AM
I imagine it'll tick every 1.5 seconds, so instead of 6 tics it'll do 10 tics as well.

And Aya will now have a uh... Agi multiplier becomes .9/1.1/1.3/1.5 for Wind God Fan.

I'd like to submit this idea by Saturday as well, so please complain about what you don't like now :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 15, 2011, 05:44:01 AM
And Aya will now have a uh... Agi multiplier becomes .9/1.1/1.3/1.5 for Wind God Fan.
Are you making an HJdots motk version?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on September 15, 2011, 06:21:55 AM
Well bear with me, at the point where she gets a smoking dude(or more likely a camera) and this item, it does only about an extra 55 or so extra damage.  Or would it better if I made it increased by .2 instead of .3?

Then the bonus damage would only be like, 30 or so.  Magic damage mind you, so reduced by innate hero defense and zun glasses.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 15, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
No my question was more like general: Are you making a HJdots here or ? ? ?

Because looking at the list on previous page, there is so much wrong with it that it makes me think it is an imba/omgdots version or something.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on September 15, 2011, 10:30:18 AM
It would be awesome if the devs made an imba dots (like imba dota) with -apss mode :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on September 17, 2011, 06:49:18 AM
^Would be awesome.
Then again there was already an Imba DotS.. no random skill  or bonus skill mode though and outdated.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 17, 2011, 02:27:53 PM
yeah thats really sad me wants HJ Lunasa and Kisume!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on September 18, 2011, 04:48:50 AM
Or make an OMG DotS

Everyone pick Aya's ult :V

But lol, there're lots of jerky combinations. like Flan ult with Momiji stun
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 18, 2011, 05:35:52 AM
But lol, there're lots of jerky combinations. like Flan ult with reisen range increase
fixed
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on September 18, 2011, 05:48:42 AM
Yamame with Minoricow cart instead of chain poison. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on September 19, 2011, 08:43:04 AM
Cirno with brain of the moon.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 19, 2011, 10:24:03 AM
Hina Ultimate + Okuu Ultimate

Flan Ultimate + Flan Clones + Aya Ultimate (blink criting)

Kaguya with Mokou Egg (since egg recovers full HP and MP)

Kaguya with Merlins Ultimate (omg)

Yuuka with Masterspark  :flowerpower:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 19, 2011, 10:51:53 AM
Actually egg doesnt recover mp but w/e
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: [Y]oukai [J]esus on September 19, 2011, 10:57:55 AM
Put Ex-Rumia back and include Mima.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on September 19, 2011, 11:48:18 AM
Lyrica Ult + Sanae Ult + Keine F + Suika Ult lol

Everyone pick Tenshi's and Suwako's Ult :V (all activate at the same time obv)

Flan with Gungnir :P




Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on September 19, 2011, 12:55:03 PM
Put Ex-Rumia back and include Mima.

EX-Rumia hasn't been in the map for a while.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 19, 2011, 01:09:01 PM
She was just removed this version
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 19, 2011, 01:19:16 PM
Put Ex-Rumia back and include Mima.

Ultimate:
Twilight Spark:
Global Range 99999
Hits every creep and every player (except Mima) on the map.
Does 99% of the Targets Max HP as pure damage. Immunity does not save you from the damage.
4 Seconds Channeling.
Mima gets gold for friendly kills.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 20, 2011, 03:50:13 AM
innate:intangible
gets zero collision permanently
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 20, 2011, 01:45:21 PM
Dotsdevs should stop wasting MBs for useless secret girls and just implement 10D girls already. And implement a 5v5 version already as well.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 20, 2011, 01:48:05 PM
why stop at 5v5? make it a 6v6  8)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 20, 2011, 02:09:18 PM
why stop at 5v5? make it a 6v6  8)
A 5v5 map can be played 6v6 style as well I guess? But seeing WC3 standard has 10 player slots at max? Or do they have more?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 20, 2011, 02:10:55 PM
its 12 max :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 20, 2011, 02:20:41 PM
12 excluding the referee spots I assume. Then they should simply enlarge the map to support 5v5 play. Current map is slightly too small for 5+v5+ games (and the mechanism is lacking).

That reminds me of good old times where we did 4v4 on 949 map. Man that was one huge crowdfest.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 20, 2011, 02:53:12 PM
do want SC2 map Style, 15 Players?, that's a 5v5v5 or 7v7  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 20, 2011, 05:53:10 PM
so today i heard about silly tenshi remake plan
...and my reaction is always WTFdevs.jpg
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 21, 2011, 10:12:30 AM
so today i heard about silly tenshi remake plan
...and my reaction is always WTFdevs.jpg
Proven once more that there is no logic to making DotS an "enjoyable" and "playable" game.

z z z z
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 21, 2011, 10:19:49 AM
Put Anchor and Nice Boat on her and crit all day long with D and F skills :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 21, 2011, 10:23:56 AM
Put Anchor and Nice Boat on her and crit all day long with D and F skills :V

Wait, what? right, both are physical now and can crit?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 21, 2011, 11:35:35 AM
When the new patch comes around, yeah her D and F skills will do scaling physical damage. Anchor would be really suitable for her since she can tank damage. More suitable than Heaven's Peach. Who'd have thought... heh
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 21, 2011, 12:07:24 PM
lol i forgot about.skill crits xD, been awhile since ive abused it
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 21, 2011, 12:15:09 PM
Well, Anchor is pretty expensive to rush as it will gimp your Chiko. Though Titanic oar isn't that bad to built next to her Scythe.

Though you still need to effort A LOT in STR items since they went gay on her formula. 2s+formula. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . why =.=
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: [Y]oukai [J]esus on September 21, 2011, 01:42:54 PM
I hit Infinity at far range. With Gungnir. While he was invis. Epic win.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on September 21, 2011, 03:48:17 PM
A 5v5 map can be played 6v6 style as well I guess? But seeing WC3 standard has 10 player slots at max? Or do they have more?

There's 12 player slots in WC3.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on September 23, 2011, 10:56:49 AM
Hey Raymoo
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/ronvic101/Gif/raymoosexual.gif

No GIF anim with the filesize of elephants in [img]  tags yo -Hele
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 23, 2011, 03:04:41 PM
I DON'T REMEMBER I'M DOING THAT KIND OF THINGS YOU GOD DAM PAPARAJJI
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 23, 2011, 08:08:29 PM
Not sure who's actually still interested in such a thing, but I'm so close to being completed now...

http://imageshack.us/g/402/27993307.jpg/

Just left with a couple more heros, and some user interface phrases, though I'll be busy over the weekend. Oh well.

What's not seen in those pictures though are some improvements made to some of the triggers, e.g. re-writing triggers to use timers instead of the buggy TriggerSleepAction command and preloading of skills...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 23, 2011, 11:42:34 PM
Looks good, also having a up-to-date english map would look good for new people. I guess having to look through the wiki and all the moon runes can be overwhelming.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on September 24, 2011, 12:55:17 AM
Yeah and you can have an easier time memorizing things, and you don't have to play "guess the item recipe looking at the item prices" (i'm looking at you 3d escapade)

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 24, 2011, 01:07:53 AM
i keep forgetting dragon star  :fail:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 24, 2011, 08:12:51 AM
i keep forgetting how to make lunarbow and IIW despite i use them on daily basis  :V
anyway up to date english map do want
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on September 25, 2011, 04:52:30 PM
ApharmdB, looks interesting. I've got some suggestions about your map patch. Can you e-mail me (since I can't PM you)?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: HOENA on September 25, 2011, 06:52:49 PM
do not understand, the patch is a new map in English and this is a program that converts the language?


And because no new versions out?, Do not understand what exactly happens in the official forum
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 25, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
uhhh i dont think its a patch, i think he just edited the map and all its values to be in english. after he finishes this he can just use macros to refill in all the values on newer maps that come out and just need to modify whats new.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 26, 2011, 12:54:04 AM
What Rawr said. It's an unofficial translation after all. All I did was edit the strings and triggers really, so this isn't a patch but a separate file/map altogether. The upshot of this is that, barring drastic changes such as complete wipe/remakes of heros, translating future versions shouldn't take more than a couple of hours; most of the time is spent compiling and testing the thing anyway. The map's now on both bots - use !load dotseng967 to load them.

3 heros remain untranslated - Mugetsu, Parsee (harhar) and Ex-Rumia. Because of how the translation was done, there may be a couple of things that I missed out, and the formatting of the text probably looks ugly for some skills with terribly lengthy descriptions (like Yukari, whose ult is a blatant attempt to break the border surrounding tooltips in WC3 :V). Maybe I'll get around to fixing it in the next version...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on September 26, 2011, 05:05:55 AM
ApharmdB, well, I wasn't able to answer your message (obviously, my post count < 10, so I cannot create PM), so could you send me your contacts (skype id/icq #/e-mail address is fine)?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 26, 2011, 07:52:15 AM
Oh I didn't realize replying was disabled as well. Details sent via pm.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 27, 2011, 09:12:55 AM
Optimized Chinese DotS v0.967g map - http://www.mediafire.com/?8aa8us2034qm6xv
Basically the map was run through a widgetizer specially made for optimizing chinese maps. Takes about 3s to drop the map's usual 30s loading time to roughly 9s for me. Pretty impressive considering the usual widgetizer tool takes a couple of minutes on my comp to process the map (and then it throws me errors). This map now replaces the usual DotS map on both bots.

English DotS v0.967 map - http://www.mediafire.com/?if7tmc7vqt6nrpk
This one is flagged Eng7 FinalX and has had some optimization done to it so it loads faster than before. I did something boneheaded for the Eng5 version which removed all the descriptions of status effects, so use this one instead. Heh. Running the chinese widgetizing tool with default settings on this map truncates skill descriptions, so this won't load as fast as the optimized chinese map, but still quite a bit faster than the non-optimized one (timed it at about 20s for me). Both versions now load equally fast  :V

If anyone notices any anomalies when playing on either map, post it here or prod me on IRC and I'll look into it. :)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 27, 2011, 09:22:04 AM
have to look for my loading time next :V
I haven't done this lately, since the loading time went up with every new release
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Rikter on September 28, 2011, 12:34:04 AM
Isn't EX Rumia just a grand total of 2 skills leftover at this point?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 28, 2011, 06:22:59 AM
ok loadingtime is awesome  :D 10 seconds and I opened my window to late to see the "press a key" thing...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 28, 2011, 07:56:44 AM
English version yesterday night loaded like balls train.

Thanks for all the hard work Aph.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on September 28, 2011, 08:38:31 AM
Seconding Helepolis' statement.
:D
Naisu stuff.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 28, 2011, 02:02:42 PM
English version yesterday night loaded like balls train.

Thanks for all the hard work Aph.
Thirded
ApharmdB can i marry you xD
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on September 28, 2011, 02:05:18 PM
tbax loaded in 30 seconds. As opposed to 130 seconds. :o
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on September 28, 2011, 02:40:12 PM
Lol thanks guys :D

Unfortunately I have to go back on my word on Eng7 Final being the last release. Got some feedback via PM (not here) that some people cannot "Press Any Key to Continue", causing people to wait... Yeah I don't understand either :( But well, since the original map doesn't require pressing the legendary "any key" and it's a quick fix, here's Eng7 FinalX, where you don't have to press any key to continue....

http://www.mediafire.com/?if7tmc7vqt6nrpk

In other news, since people won't be pressing the "any key" anymore, it now feels a little bit lonelier.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 28, 2011, 03:08:17 PM
great now all we need is parsee
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 28, 2011, 03:28:29 PM
Lol thanks guys :D

Unfortunately I have to go back on my word on Eng7 Final being the last release. Got some feedback via PM (not here) that some people cannot "Press Any Key to Continue", causing people to wait... Yeah I don't understand either :( But well, since the original map doesn't require pressing the legendary "any key" and it's a quick fix, here's Eng7 FinalX, where you don't have to press any key to continue....

http://www.mediafire.com/?if7tmc7vqt6nrpk

In other news, since people won't be pressing the "any key" anymore, it now feels a little bit lonelier.

 :V inb4 6.66 seconds  :3, playing Remilia and getting 6/6/6 in one game
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 28, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
great now all we need is parsee
laughingdevs.gif
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 29, 2011, 05:41:55 AM

great now all we need is parsee

laughingdevs.gif
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2i6ndop.jpg)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 30, 2011, 08:47:02 AM
[10:49:01] <Helepolis|Research> @removeban lunarbow
[10:49:03] <Rinnosuke> - Removed lunarbow from banned -


Because hipster QQing people claim Bow is "balanced" , we are giving you fanboys 1 week to play around with it. (Until next Sunday).

Personally I find the item dumb no matter what excuse you come up with. It is close or perhaps camera-tier dumb in my opinion. Nothing comes good from an item giving 42% AS and free spammable nuke. People claim we never got to test this out before it got banned,  I call it nonsense, but w/e

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 30, 2011, 10:28:39 AM
>saw lunar bow unban
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2qkl7jb.png)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on September 30, 2011, 10:34:24 AM
M-Reimu your animation is annoying  :sword!:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 30, 2011, 12:56:37 PM
M-Reimu your animation is annoying  :sword!:
:P
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 30, 2011, 01:28:18 PM
its actually a bit to large but none of my business
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on September 30, 2011, 01:43:59 PM
its actually a bit to large but none of my business
It is. Its 2.8mb, which is forum rule breaking yo. Changing it into a link.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on September 30, 2011, 01:57:26 PM
It is. Its 2.8mb, which is forum rule breaking yo. Changing it into a link.
sry didn't know that thx
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on October 01, 2011, 07:16:14 AM
Time to use Eirin again.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 01, 2011, 06:09:31 PM
seems lunar bow rarely used even after that shocking unban dunnowai
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 01, 2011, 06:36:07 PM
im pretty sure thats because everyone knows its a gay item and nobody wants to be THAT fag that goes and rushes it and proceeds to win
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 01, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
inb4 people forcing helepolis to unban camera
if that happens everyone shat bricks
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 01, 2011, 08:14:57 PM
We'll see about unbanning camera in the long off future.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CrowCakes on October 01, 2011, 10:20:49 PM
Following my first game on B.net, I am now scared like hell of gankers. Inb4ikufailjump

Can I ask for advice on item builds for int types? My current late game build is str llama + stopwatch + kitsune + party basket (amulet) + adamantine/watermelon blade + w/e, and my early game just goes for the first three.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 01, 2011, 10:28:44 PM
ints dont need watermelon blade or kitsune

build the go home and get married rather and control rod, and if able to farm enough get hakkero
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 01, 2011, 10:53:21 PM
build the go home and get married rather and control rod, and if able to farm enough get hakkero
That depends on the hero, though.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 01, 2011, 10:55:24 PM
all those items are typical int items, which int wouldnt get any of those
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 01, 2011, 10:56:58 PM
Suwackerz?

Regarding GHGM over Control Rod, that is.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 01, 2011, 11:00:31 PM
i didnt really say which order to get them, like some people would rather rush hakkero over a anything else. also nothing wrong with suwako getting a hex for like 8? seconds of disables
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CrowCakes on October 01, 2011, 11:25:37 PM
I'm trying Yuyuko. Which one is better, control rod or adamantine? Hakkero might be out of the question, because I can't farm 6000 points.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on October 02, 2011, 06:37:45 AM
Get Yuri/Lily if you don't level sleep, both are good, but adamantine is better since you can ult without getting interrupted.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 02, 2011, 07:43:18 AM
I'm trying Yuyuko. Which one is better, control rod or adamantine? Hakkero might be out of the question, because I can't farm 6000 points.
It is situational yo. Adamantine is for making your Yuyu more sturdy and protective. I would bother getting Stopwatch / GHGM (hex) / control rod first. It has better built up for your INT, which means regeneration in return. Rushing hakkero on Yuyuko is not quite required, because the only spammable skill you got is your D anyway which damages. (Not that it is bad but...)

If you go for control rod / stop watch or ghgm, you will become a disabler Yuyuko which is more more useful in team combat. Most of your kills will come from your ult anyway by poor heroes who cannot run away. The Lily item is a nice troll item, but it doesn't make up for what you can get if you just farm bit more.

DrRawr :[ you make me sad :[ what about to our good old Surprise! You're dead Yuyuko subdoll :[  (oh right, the item is no longer INT beneficial...)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on October 02, 2011, 08:27:22 AM
I'd suggest rushing hakkero for some nukers though, if only because you can win pretty easy if you manage it. Marisa and Suwako have enough farm speed to do so, but it's not an easy strategy.
I wouldn't suggest hakkero at all for Yuyuko, since her ultimate isn't really damage at all.

Kebabs are good if you're having trouble surviving, as well.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 02, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
Hakkero's major problem is farming up the ingredients for it. 2x Stolen Grimoires (4200) is really something that is not easy to get, especially if you want it to count most (Mid->Late). For this purpose, I hear Sakuya really benefits from Hakkero; the main problem is Sakuya starts of insanely slow early game, and requires a constant stream of points in order to even farm up the components for it because really Hakkero's build-up is a piece of shit. I think anyone who's played with me in a game where I manage to farm Hakkero on Sakuya will know what I'm talking about.

Re: Lunar Bow
Lunar Bow is a really silly item, but I think what most people fail to realize is that the damage is physical, which means you CAN at least mitigate the shittons of damage dealt from Bow by stacking armor (or Agility if you're an Agility girl). The major complaint I think that's worth noting is that it's basically a super-powered Dagon, in which if it gets rushed by somebody or more than one person, they can pretty much instagib you and then you really can't do much about it unless you gank or you chain disables on them...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 02, 2011, 03:44:39 PM
except for the part where you need about 20 armour just to reduce is by 50%~ so if the bow does about 500 damage its still a spammable 250 damage hit every 20seconds. also bow is aoe, scales, super range, decent mp cost for an int. i dont think you should try comparing it to dagon seeing as it can reach much higher damage. last thing, every game ive seen with lunar bow, who ever gets it first seems to win. also getting armour to counter an int, but its usually also have a nuke that does spell damage....
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 02, 2011, 04:06:53 PM
Brownbeta got a bow.

And he lost :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 02, 2011, 04:10:22 PM
Tried it myself on a Sanae with a fully upgraded rocket as well and I was late game, so I was doing about 600 damage with the bow.

... I think I prefer the rocket if I had to choose between the two.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 02, 2011, 10:45:45 PM
Well, I was going to save this for once the week ended, but since people seem to be posting about it now.

First of all, bow is relatively easy to farm and every item inside the buildup is beneficial to an int.
On top of only requiring 4k gold, the build up consists of 500/500/500 (Lunarite), 450/500/150 (Yagokoro Doll), 400 (Fruit Knife), 1000 (Lunar Landing Rocket Manual).
In other words, it's an extremely easy buildup.
But most people aren't complaining about that, so let's move on.

The nuke. It costs 120 mana to cast, which is nothing for most ints.
Assuming that an INT rushes it and gets it during the early/mid phase, they should have roughly 50 INT at that point, which means that the bow is dealing 340 damage before reduction. Most people should have around 1~1.5k HP (2k for STR) at this point, but relatively low armor. Which means that you get a nuke that should do roughly 1/4 of the enemy's damage that is spammable.
It only takes 165 total INT to reach the damage of a level 4 Gungnir. And 165 total INT is not that hard to get.
It scales rather well to the lategame, assuming that people don't get armor.
"Oh, but you can just get armor to counteract it." A problem here is that, by getting armor, you're only counteracting a single nuke. Ints don't usually rely on auto attacks and have several other nukes, so armor should be pretty useless against everything else they do.

And then, with a nuke like this, it should be hard to aim, right?
I mean, Gungnir travels slowly and has that weird hitbox and Nue's Arrow has that windup time and doesn't reach as far as Gungnir.
Well, the Lunar Bow's nuke has neither of these things.
The arrow travels quickly, is fairly wide, hits multiple units, and has no windup time.
In other words, the only thing that should be giving you trouble with aiming the bow is the fact that it's an item and therefore its hotkey is far away from the rest of your skills. (Unless you use third party programs to remap your keys)

So, uh, yeah. I dislike the bow.
The question is, though, is the bow as stupid as the only other item to get banned? (Camera)
I think that, at this point, it's borderline leaning towards yes.
It's definitely up there among the stupid items, and I would definitely like to see it nerfed. Perhaps the INT modifier could be reduced to something like 2.50x?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 03, 2011, 12:00:49 AM
"Oh, but you can just get armor to counteract it." A problem here is that, by getting armor, you're only counteracting a single nuke. Ints don't usually rely on auto attacks and have several other nukes, so armor should be pretty useless against everything else they do.

Armor counters most hard-carries that rely on auto-attacks to do damage, and I have noticed that in our community, Corruption isn't a very popular item as opposed to several months ago. Armor also mitigates creep damage late-game. Armor is incredibly useful, so I'm not sure why you're looking at it from such a narrow-minded perspective. The reason why nobody ever actually invests in armor is because half the time you want to get stuff to kill faster, because ~*~killing is good~*~, except when you're the one getting killed and everybody forces their own builds half the time. Remember a recent game with PX where he had Tewi and was tankier than Tenshi because he had 30+ armor and after that began to stack HP? Yeah, eHP is a really frakking big deal in DotS and eHP isn't just stacking HP, it's also armor stacking. This is why I say Agility heroes have it easier, because they get high natural armor scores.

errata:

except for the part where you need about 20 armour just to reduce is by 50%~ so if the bow does about 500 damage its still a spammable 250 damage hit every 20seconds. also bow is aoe, scales, super range, decent mp cost for an int. i dont think you should try comparing it to dagon seeing as it can reach much higher damage. last thing, every game ive seen with lunar bow, who ever gets it first seems to win. also getting armour to counter an int, but its usually also have a nuke that does spell damage....

Except 20 armor isn't very hard to get - Myon Balloon; okay you're done. Most girls have high natural armor scores in the first place, so I'm not sure how reaching the 50% benchmark is a big deal. Actually, if anything, I'd complain about how incredibly easy it is to get for what it does - 1500+1100+400+1000 (4000) - is really freaking cheap for something that has the potential to deal 70% of almost anybody's life and 4000 PTS worth of items is actually really easy to get given that kind of build-up... Also, Dagon is pretty much the ONLY thing you can compare Bow to, and Bow is pretty much superior to it in all ways simply because it scales! If it never scaled, or had a nerfed INT modifier, then it'd pretty much be on par with Lv5 Dagon. And we already have Scarlet Rocket, which is the token Dagon of DotS anyway.

Again, "armor to counter an INT" - I say armor counters a lot of shit in this game; inanely high tower damage, inanely high creep damage, auto-attacking hard-carries, etc.

... I think I prefer the rocket if I had to choose between the two.

Well Rocket has this thing where it stuns people.

Lunar Bow is designed just to outright kill people. I think most people would take the latter.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 03, 2011, 12:23:39 AM
Corruption isn't a very popular item as opposed to several months ago.
lolwut? The reason why you don't see corruption as much is because most people don't like to pick the AGI carries that would normally use it, since almost all of them are so stupid.
I didn't bring up team composition because that can vary wildly. I mean, if the enemy team has a lot of rightclick carries, then of course armor will be great. If they have a whole bunch of nukers with a few bows, what do? And you're making the assumption that the ints won't be nuking you down with magic damage. Remember, bow is just a small addition to their plethora of nukes.

And on the topic of Tewi, there's also the part where her ult reduces incoming damage by 1/3.

The SDL has this thing where its buildup is worse that the Bow's, costs more, and is rather useless until higher levels.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 03, 2011, 12:28:44 AM
I didn't bring up team composition because that can vary wildly. I mean, if the enemy team has a lot of rightclick carries, then of course armor will be great. If they have a whole bunch of nukers with a few bows, what do? And you're making the assumption that the ints won't be nuking you down with magic damage. Remember, bow is just a small addition to their plethora of nukes.

the only major and actually popular candidate for bow who has a bazillion nukes is Patchy.

Eirin just has Game of Life which, while it DOES hurt like a mofugger, is easily run out of (unless you lag or you're just dumb). I have seen Amra try to go for Bow on Hina, but I haven't really seen it do much more than 450+ damage in the late-game... When you actually get Bow is a big deal too. I'm not trying to say that it isn't ridiculously dumb but some of the things you're telling me are a bit hard for me to believe, especially since I've never actually seen a dedicated nuke-team in for-fucking-ever in DotS (at least in any games I've played here) ... There's almost always at least one or two carries on the enemy team.

Re: SDL
I got a Lv3 SDL in 17 minutes. As Hina.

It is NOT hard to farm for it, meng.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 03, 2011, 12:38:42 AM
which leads us to the same point we need a myon and zun glasses/green dam to counter heavy nukers like remi or byak who both have high int and deal large amount of spell damage. why should i have to devote every game where some nuker buys a bow and need to waste 2-3 inventory slots just to not die in 10seconds from them.

a similar game ive had before, ww was mystia and for some reason was able to dps all of us to death. it wasnt because she had killing items, all she had was 2 tacticus and a sukima. the reason she was able to do so much was because of her aspd she got. saying armour lowers the damage sum~ is also narrow minded, yea it can lower the damage but having crap tons of aspd is was agi carries have what most others dont have. ever see a 6 lunarite eiki? able to ruin people just because of her being able to attack so fast.

also note the thing about most hard carries in dots is that most of there auto attacks that amplify there damage or just get by armour so no it doesnt really help against them or to a degree where they deal so much damage armour doesnt matter

im pretty sure remi,byak,eiki,koa,kaguya and any other nukers in that range deal enough spell damage/ have enough int to make lunar bow hurt(note hakkero is typical for any of those also)

last note tewi has that aura thing that reduces damage by 44%
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 03, 2011, 12:41:21 AM
Re: SDL
I got a Lv3 SDL in 17 minutes. As Hina.

It is NOT hard to farm for it, meng.
I'm saying that it has a worse build up than bow and is more expensive. Getting that first 5~6k item within 20 minutes is not that rare.

which leads us to the same point we need a myon and zun glasses/green dam to counter heavy nukers like remi or byak who both have high int and deal large amount of spell damage. why should i have to devote every game where some nuker buys a bow and need to waste 2-3 inventory slots just to not die in 10seconds from them.
And Rawr cut me but that's pretty much what I was going to say.

last note tewi has that aura thing that reduces damage by 44%
Oh, I forgot it got buffed again a while back.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 03, 2011, 04:05:32 AM
Alternatively, we could bother SiG to bother the dots devs to make it.. Say.. Cost 20% total mana or something.  The power will scale, but so will the cost.  Every int hero using skills runs out of mana pretty dang fast.  After a minute of flinging my spells as a late game patchy(Like, 3000mana), I'm down to 0 instantly.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 07:14:06 AM
Enjoy the bow until end of the week, because it is returning into the ban can. Until these dumb devs do something about it, but we already know the answer to that.

Also, SDL is more "fair" item in comparison because it got nerfed few versions ago. SDL used to hit like a truck, remember?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 03, 2011, 08:28:29 AM
suddenly after motk problem for short time, many posts comes
anyway wall of text go

I'm trying Yuyuko. Which one is better, control rod or adamantine? Hakkero might be out of the question, because I can't farm 6000 points.
>yuyuko
>farm lily adamantine
>lolgg

Re: Lunar Bow
Lunar Bow is a really silly item, but I think what most people fail to realize is that the damage is physical
more like scythe problems. Many STR users whos underfarmed farming that thing same as underfarmed ints farm lunar bow and expect they can do zomg shit lolfail

Tried it myself on a Sanae with a fully upgraded rocket as well and I was late game, so I was doing about 600 damage with the bow.
shes a bad lunarbow user for me dunno why

Corruption isn't a very popular item as opposed to several months ago
its true i only uses corruption for hatate momijay and youmu

also low hp high armor=low EHP
high hp low armor=not so big EHP
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 03, 2011, 08:31:51 AM
I'm saying that it has a worse build up than bow and is more expensive. Getting that first 5~6k item within 20 minutes is not that rare.

I'm pretty sure SDL is just the Fruit Knife and the Manual and the recipe. And the recipes themselves only cost 800. So I'm not sure what you're quantifying as "worse," to me it just seems like you're hating on SDL just because you require 4000 gold to attain its maximum potential... Furthermore, 800/SDL level really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. And again, you guys make it sound like I'm defending Bow; I'm not, I'm just trying to reason out some of my views on it.

>Getting that first 5~6k item within 20 minutes is not that rare.
In bolded - the most important point I want to get across - in practice, getting all sorts of expensive shit quickly is really damn easy here (for some reason).
This kind of argument sounds like it'd be sound on paper, but in practice, people DO get all sorts of expensive shit quickly. The fact that Lunar Bow is much cheaper than SDL just cements how fucking stupid it is.
THAT is my major complaint towards Bow. If you're going to make an item do that much ridiculously powerful shit, at least make it ridiculously hard to get.

also low hp high armor=low EHP
high hp low armor=not so big EHP

That's why you get high HP, high armor.

u dum
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 03, 2011, 08:34:40 AM
I'm pretty sure SDL is just the Fruit Knife and the Manual and the recipe. And the recipes themselves only cost 800. So I'm not sure what you're quantifying as "worse," to me it just seems like you're hating on SDL just because you require 4000 gold to attain its maximum potential... Furthermore, 800/SDL level really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. And again, you guys make it sound like I'm defending Bow; I'm not, I'm just trying to reason out some of my views on it.
Wait, it's only 4k? Oh, they changed the price when they nerfed it, right. Forgot completely about that.
Wait so are you for or against bow. Your stance is really confusing to me, here.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 03, 2011, 08:36:06 AM
Wait, it's only 4k? Oh, they changed the price when they nerfed it, right. Forgot completely about that.
Wait so are you for or against bow. Your stance is really confusing to me, here.

I'm against the bow but not because of what it does, but because it's so easy to get FOR what it does.

Really, I've lost hope on the developers actually properly balancing their item numbers, so I just go with what's there. But for the sanity of the other players, it's especially important that such ridiculously broken items need some ridiculously hard requirements, right? It's only fair.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 08:42:11 AM
Ye, I was also under the impression Hime was not defending bow, but more like having a general debate about it (unsided). Explaining both the good and bad sides.

Regarding armour/HP against bow: I was going to say: "can't block what you don't have". Building HP + Armour isn't something you do at #1 option. Even tanks don't built tank items because you will do shitty gimp damage mid game. (inb4tanksaresupposetotankandnotdealdmg). I, myself,  am not going to spent money on HJbug + myon and be cute mid-game or "prepare myself" against bow. Only Kaguya does that kind of shit. As an STR user, I rush 9 out of 10x Scythe. As INT I rush ghgm/stopwatch depending on what we need. I don't play bitch AGIs so screw you :V

In average farm games, you get your first expensive item (scythe, ghgm etc) around 25min. If you got fed, you will get it below 15 for sure.

Quote from: Kalia
If you're going to make an item do that much ridiculously powerful shit, at least make it ridiculously hard to get.
Pretty much this. Hakkero makes up for the bonus because its 6000 (like Michael Jackson). Bow does this not. The 42% godly AS and active == broken item == dumb.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 03, 2011, 09:48:18 AM
That's why you get high HP, high armor.
u dum
i was just clarifying it
ANYWAY THANURIS IS THAT YOU
also balancing lunar bow is p hard i bet even icefrog got headache trying to balance that shit if bow exist in dota
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 10:34:07 AM
Shit items remain shit. You can tie a ribbon to it, but it will remain shit.

There is no way bow is able to be balanced, because they try hard to make it an OFFENSIVE item. The whole idea/concept of firing off an item piercing and requiring little skill to pull off is a major fail. Even if they give bow a 60s CD, it would remain a shit item. We don't need a Lunar Bow in dots. If they would remove it from the game, I would go: "Nothing of value was lost". Use SDL more if you care about ranged damage items.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 03, 2011, 11:37:24 AM
You can't balance items like Lunar Bow, yeah.

Everything about it is conditional to the point that it's impossible to make it not too powerful and not too useless.

I'd go into more depth about it as I have in the past, but I think everyone knows that I was always of the belief that the item didn't belong in DotS. At all. Much like DrRawr doesn't belong to a group of doctors. At all.

And as for items for INT heroes, depends on which hero. There are generic builds for each hero but yeah. I don't see any INT hero really needing DPS items like Watermelon Sword.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 03, 2011, 12:01:31 PM
Imma just say we should balance the game by upping our standard of play :V

Really, we're a smalltime playgroup that's afraid of new stuff. I think I've only seen one or two kills with bow shots. Not much in the way of being poked in lane with a bow. So (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/Themes/Zalgo/images/Jerk.png)
                             
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 03, 2011, 12:53:39 PM
So youre saying we should balance a game by allowing even more op things? Sound like dots dev logic
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 03, 2011, 12:56:21 PM
I don't like these koreans  :o, picking all melle carrys against Iku, Medi and Merlin, welcome to public games
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 03, 2011, 01:30:55 PM
I don't like these koreans  :o, picking all melle carrys against Iku, Medi and Merlin, welcome to public games

Actually, I picked Medicine after they already confirmed.

It's because I really fucking hate carry teams like that, so I intentionally counter pick because I'm an ass.

Imma just say we should balance the game by upping our standard of play :V

I think I've only seen one or two kills with bow shots.

You haven't played enough games with rushed Bows, then. I played a game recently with M-Reimu (Patchouli) and Thanuris (Eirin) on my team, and they both got Bows, and proceeded to demolish everybody with them. :V I think it just widens the gap in skill between players and causes some intimidation towards those who want to enjoy a fun game.

There's nothing stopping you from playing on Gayrena if you want to play on No Man's Land terms, anyway.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 01:38:56 PM
Pesco u b trollan.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 03, 2011, 04:16:23 PM
No Hele. From a mod's perspective, why should only the lower end of players be catered for? I don't have to like the opinions of people who play every game to win, but their say is just as valid.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 03, 2011, 04:27:42 PM
if people want to play around with the bans we got theres always gayrena.

most of us who have been here longer or are experienced all seem to know that bow is a pretty gay item.

its up to the mods on who they want to agree with and decide if it should be banned or not.i dont think they should take majority
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 04:47:45 PM
No Hele. From a mod's perspective, why should only the lower end of players be catered for? I don't have to like the opinions of people who play every game to win, but their say is just as valid.
From a level designer / scripter / danmakufu / map editor point of view: A good editor, always tries to ensure pleasure (gameplay) above sorrow (greed). Pleasure flows from balance, good gameplay.

You cannot compare a 'mod' to a full scripted game like DotS. Different elements, different styles.

TL DR: Lunar Bow is not (as judged by many players) a vital item for the gameplay of DotS. It does not add game play. It does not add any vital strategy (such as disable items). What Lunar Bow adds is pure jerkness in the form of retarted game play. Which is for any mod, game, level, mutator considered: bad



Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 03, 2011, 04:49:22 PM
Mod as in us moderators of this section.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 03, 2011, 04:59:48 PM
Also note the only thing that scales as hard as lunar bow is youmus ult, and we all know shes gay tier agi
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 05:01:23 PM
I think my previous post goes up in the same concept if you are talking about that. You just replace out the words and delete the 2nd sentence.

We unbanned bow for a week. I've played actively played games with a bow and spectated games with bow users. It breaks games. I can tell you already, the results are bad. Not because of people's mass complaints, but because I seen, played and experienced.

Edit: We unbanned Koishi for experimental reasons as well. Even that caused better results than bow now.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 03, 2011, 05:27:21 PM
We've still got a few days and I'd like people to drop their prejudices.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 03, 2011, 06:25:55 PM
Fine with me,  I don't count my own vote anyway. Would be biased. I just express my opinion.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 03, 2011, 11:46:29 PM
We've still got a few days and I'd like people to drop their prejudices.

If retarded op shit that doesn't belong in any moba game remains unbanned, then so be it.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with it existing in the first place. I've already mentioned that if it really has to stay, then the devs should really do something about how accessible it is, but I guess we're not even getting that much. It's not something as shallow as "catering to the lowest common denominator," I'm just finding it really hard to believe that you appear to have little issue with the item itself despite almost everything about it being horribly and utterly wrong.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 04, 2011, 12:22:33 AM
Well in unrelated lunar bow new, we should be expecting awesome byakuren, maybe awesome tenshi, patchy with EVEN MORE SKILL OPTIONS, maybe suika with a new R, tokiko.

Anything else?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 04, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
Isn't it sad, Parsee?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on October 04, 2011, 02:54:27 AM
a;oebv'aoiebvo[arng'o[aiwf parsee whar apienbv'aewpnv'oarbga

Anyways. I've only seen M-Reimu, Thanuris, and myself rush that. Everyone else seems to only get it in response. It's like picking youmu/aya/momi/flan; people are going to react to it.
I suppose if we three refrain, no one's really gonna bother unless they have some baller build idea. Like that time that korean guy went balling around as Nue with bow, rocket, and hex. (but didn't push and dragged game)
We, as in the community, all realize it's stupid, but outside of us three, no one really gets it even if it's available. Brown doesn't count.

But anyways. Looking forward to what's going on with some of the heroes.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 04, 2011, 03:03:20 AM
just because no one gets it doesnt it make it any better. like saying conc is ok because no one gets it yet it can be game breaking easily
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 04, 2011, 05:57:32 AM
Well in unrelated lunar bow new, we should be expecting awesome byakuren, maybe awesome tenshi, patchy with EVEN MORE SKILL OPTIONS, maybe suika with a new R, tokiko.

Anything else?
I am still wondering how a scaling Tenshi exactly is going to impact the game. Guessing, late game she isn't going to shine like she used to if the enemy has better tanks. Because her core damage comes from the keystone being smashed every 2s. That is going to be history soon.

I feel like Tokiko is going to be our next rage inducing girl :V

Also as dormio said, isn't it sad Parsee? Even if you are a bitch bridge princess, nobody wants your ass around =[
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 06:36:35 AM
Imo bow's there and it really doesn't make things that much more jerk than they are now. Amra or M-Reimu gets the bow and they pwn harder. So what? They're spending an item slot for a dodgeable nuke instead of an undodgeable damage booster/disable. SDL is a plain fire-and-forget spell. Bow actually takes aiming.

If the item is so accessable, then it's an option for the weaker player to give themselves an edge in the fight. Now I don't know if it's possible to quantify the effect of items on a player's skill but I think they're purely additive. Assume bow adds 50 to a player's skill rating. Weak player (rating 30) and strong player (rating 100) become 80 and 150 respectively. There gap is still the same, but the weaker player has the benefit of a better ratio now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 04, 2011, 06:40:41 AM
According to that logic, shouldn't everything go back to being unbanned? :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 06:45:49 AM
Eventually. And by then it would be nice if we could all man up and learn to deal with whatever is in the game.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 04, 2011, 07:06:22 AM
I'd rather not.

There are certain things (hi Camera) that will make me refuse to play.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 07:09:51 AM
You can have your social agreement with the people in the game to not get such items.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 04, 2011, 07:15:53 AM
I don't know about you, but I'd rather not see our metagame devolve into rushing a camera to win the game.

I'd rather it be the other way around, to have a social agreement to allow those items.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 04, 2011, 07:35:11 AM
Just 2 observations of mine - 1. I'd rather face an enemy team with 4 bows than 2 SDLs (anyone in that game where Hakurei's Hina and Kaguya farmed SDLs each would probably agree with this), and 2. the camera is damn overpowered yes, but I'm slightly amused by the recognition of this fact and the lack of QQ over Tewi who, after taking her R and W skills into account, has a pretty high chance of doing more than 12% of your mHP per hit (6% base multiplied by 2 from proc chance, multiplied by 1.4 yet again from Lucky Inaba (stacks multiplicatively, not additively), and then taking into account the free -8 armour on attack she gets from her R skill....) And since it's physical damage, heaven help you if she farms a nice boat, because after taking into account all the fun multipliers, she has a chance of doing over 50% of your mHP per hit then, and actually has the aspd to take advantage of stuff like that...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 04, 2011, 07:42:17 AM
I lump Tewi into the "lolagi" group. V:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 07:56:26 AM
We're not banning Tewi. Ever. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 04, 2011, 08:07:24 AM
If the item is so accessable, then it's an option for the weaker player to give themselves an edge in the fight.

Watch as the weaker players fail to use the Bow properly :V

I think we all have one example in mind :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 04, 2011, 08:25:01 AM
I think we all have one example in mind :getdown:

Dangit Brown.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 04, 2011, 08:31:29 AM
We're banning Tewi?

Fine with me.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 04, 2011, 09:30:34 AM
I don't think we need to ban Tewi. She is strong but not super OP like Flan or Aya.
She is on a Nazrin level of power. So if we ban her we should also ban Nazrin aswell and Flan, Kisume, Nue, Koishi, Aya, Hatate, Mokou, Kaguya....
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 04, 2011, 09:58:04 AM
Just ban dots.

You can still start dots with a crowd of rowdy people, but you may not play dots.  That might be imba.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 04, 2011, 10:43:36 AM
Dora, that was obviously a joke :V

------------

[12:37:47] <Pesco> @removeban yamame
[12:37:48] <Rinnosuke> - Removed yamame from banned -


We are unbanning Yamame conditionally that you don't use her ult.

"WTF HELEPOLIS, DUMB". DWI. She plays fine without her ult (blame devs for fucking around with it) and it is kind of sad that just because of that, she is banned. We'll see how this works until end of the week.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 10:52:13 AM
HELEPOLIS U DUM
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 04, 2011, 10:55:23 AM
Even I am cringing at unbanned Yamame unban.  Those spiders man.. Just the spiders.

Kills Yuugi instantly I saw.  5000hp Yuugi, cast spiders, Yuugi forced to stand there because net, dead.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 11:02:45 AM
It's okay. We'll just have the person playing Yamame not use any of her good skills.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 04, 2011, 11:09:06 AM
Make new achievements. Yamame trap only. Only her Net is allowed and must kill someone within that period.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on October 04, 2011, 02:42:54 PM
But Yamame needs her ult against jerks with disables! I'd rather see her banned instead of having to play her without ult (same as Rumia)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 04, 2011, 04:18:24 PM
inb4 Amra replies "I CAME"
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 04, 2011, 04:20:43 PM
inb4 Amra replies "I SAW"
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 04, 2011, 05:16:11 PM
inb4 Amra replies "I CR*****"

But Yamame needs her ult against jerks with disables! I'd rather see her banned instead of having to play her without ult (same as Rumia)
No she doesn't. Noway you can compare her to Rumia.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on October 04, 2011, 05:34:14 PM
KOREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA- That's all I have to say :|
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 04, 2011, 11:50:47 PM
I don't think we need to ban Tewi. She is strong but not super OP like Flan or Aya.
She is on a Nazrin level of power. So if we ban her we should also ban Nazrin aswell and Flan, Kisume, Nue, Koishi, Aya, Hatate, Mokou, Kaguya....

>Nazrin
>Not super OP

Yeah, right. Pendulums that grant effective invulnerability, gay double attack procs that carry effects, stupid to escape most situations, radar of retarded attack speed. Also Kaguya and Kisume is in that list why  ??? They're not some gay OP carries.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 05, 2011, 06:08:46 AM
while sometimes its really hard to kill Kaguya, outsmarting her danmaku is piss easy if you know how
for Nazimouse...you can't stop her farming because pendulum wipes creeps ijij and has retarded cast range, innate that picks point drop only by walk to them, and doubleattack that makes weaver's germinate looks like a joke
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 05, 2011, 06:21:27 AM
KOREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA- That's all I have to say :|
me actually not really have problems with this. Its not a bad thing (not really sure about this either). Playing with new people makes you learn something new rite? If they pick powerhouses why we didn't do that instead of QQtheypickfurandureshitandmomigay? Imagine this is gayrena :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 05, 2011, 06:46:49 AM
this is gayrena :V

Garena? THIS IS SHRINEMAIDEN *kicks Midnight-chan into the pit of happyness*

Anyway, such games can be so gay when you play with them because all of them will be carrys. How to win with that  ???
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 05, 2011, 07:00:40 AM
while sometimes its really hard to kill Kaguya, outsmarting her danmaku is piss easy if you know how

Needs someone on the team who can effectively use the katana, or else even a decently played Kaguya who knows how to spin will be a royal pain to go up against.

What people don't realize is that her danmaku has a blindspot right next to her. It will never hit any target that's within 100 range of her. But melee heros generally have slightly more range than that, so unless they force m-move right on top of her before attacking, they will still end up eating all that tasty danmaku.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 05, 2011, 07:02:12 AM
Anyway, such games can be so gay when you play with them because all of them will be carrys. How to win with that  ???

Pick Sanae, Merlin, Tewi, Medicine. GG :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 05, 2011, 07:52:02 AM
Needs someone on the team who can effectively use the katana, or else even a decently played Kaguya who knows how to spin will be a royal pain to go up against.

What people don't realize is that her danmaku has a blindspot right next to her. It will never hit any target that's within 100 range of her. But melee heros generally have slightly more range than that, so unless they force m-move right on top of her before attacking, they will still end up eating all that tasty danmaku.
circling arround kaguya to avoid danmaku? Noob tactic that works 90% of the time :V
Also needs some1 who is a good katana user
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 05, 2011, 02:28:22 PM
Skilled katana user? More like skilled girl user. Aya / Nazrin / Tewi ? Especially Nazrin. Busyrod == twice chance of Katana procs.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 05, 2011, 03:42:59 PM
Pick Sanae, Merlin, Tewi, Medicine. GG :V

Hello, you are the "foreigner". You 4 man team has Youmu, Mokou and Kitsune.
WHAT TO PICK!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 05, 2011, 03:46:50 PM
also getting in 100 distance of kaguya isnt the problem, its staying in 100 distance i think because of the spinning
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 05, 2011, 04:09:21 PM
Hello, you are the "foreigner". You 4 man team has Youmu, Mokou and Kitsune.
WHAT TO PICK!

Minoriko.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 05, 2011, 04:12:38 PM
Minoriko.
shiz
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 05, 2011, 08:48:47 PM
shiz
Medicine  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 06, 2011, 05:54:37 AM
Hello, you are the "foreigner". You 4 man team has Youmu, Mokou and Kitsune.
WHAT TO PICK!
Depends on enemy team.

Standard: Preferred tanks, nukers would (might) also do but then it becomes too much pressure on Youmu and Mokou.
If you don't care: Minoriko.

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 06, 2011, 06:14:03 AM
Why not just pick another carry and join in the fun?  :D Then lose horribly and hope that people learn that picking 3 or 4 carries in a team vs a team that's designed to counter carries is pretty darn stupid and not do it again.




I still have faith in humanity and common sense... right? Right?  :ohdear:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 06, 2011, 06:53:13 AM
Teamstack. It works all the time :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 06, 2011, 06:59:15 AM
I still have faith in humanity and common sense... right? Right?  :ohdear:
You disappoint me Aph =(((( how could you doubt in me!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 06, 2011, 09:32:11 AM
when in doubt, pick Hata-tan Flandre
play her with mouse only to balance the game
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on October 06, 2011, 11:46:58 AM
Go pick Byakuren and kill your team :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 06, 2011, 12:54:47 PM
when in doubt, pick Hata-tan Flandre
play her with touchpad only to balance the game

fixed
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 07, 2011, 01:33:39 PM
Today i remembered about my old hatred where LOLLEIMUTEAMSTACKDOESN'TEXISTUGOPLAYNEATSHITINTEAMHAKUREI
and when Korea players comes finally i can show all of those ppl about
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff404/M-Reimu/1317139694822.jpg)
Quote
[20:13] <Midnight_R> i remembered someone saying this nonsense about
[20:13] <Midnight_R> LEIMU THERES NO SUCH THING AS TEAMSTACK
[20:13] <Midnight_R> i just say to all of em
[20:13] <Midnight_R> fucking bullshit
[20:13] <Infinity> ^
[20:13] <Midnight_R> now i want to hear that again?
[20:13] <RyougiShiki> that
[20:13] <RyougiShiki> is bullshit
[20:13] <Infinity> I never said that ever
[20:14] <RyougiShiki> yeah
[20:14] <Midnight_R> WHERES IDIOTS WHO SAYING THAT TO ME???
[20:14] <Midnight_R> about couple of month i still remembered that shit
[20:14] <Midnight_R> where i got teamed by riktar bystander and whatnot against
[20:14] <Midnight_R> pandaherodular in one team
[20:14] <Midnight_R> and now iwanna show em what teamstack means
[20:14] <Midnight_R> amiwrong?
[20:14] <Naoto_Dormogane> teamstack
[20:15] <Infinity> and people do this shit to me
[20:15] <Midnight_R> holy shit i scream like
[20:15] <Midnight_R> balance pls
[20:15] <Midnight_R> they just
[20:15] <Naoto_Dormogane> I usually don't look at lobbies
[20:15] <Midnight_R> lool leimu tamstack is not exist lolplay
[20:15] <Midnight_R> actually i'm just pretending dinner
[20:16] <Midnight_R> i just loled for those who saying lolteamstack not exist
[20:17] <Midnight_R> i just wanna make em shallow the whole bullshit they saying
[20:17] <Infinity> but my god don't make me ever do that again
[20:17] <Midnight_R> not embrassing em in front of irc
PS to those ppl: if want to saying bullshits at least be funny k? You know what when u ppl said that to me i smash my mouse and broked it, along with smashing my phone and it took couple of days to be repaired. If this shit was last for 3 days or so then i can tell its just looljk and i just lolk but it lasts for WHOLE month which is retarded. I even was thinking whole people here wants to bully me.
Now one of my old hatred is gone and i'm happy
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 07, 2011, 01:41:16 PM
Well Reimu, I could've told you that it was complete stupidity when people said team stacking doesn't exist.

But oh well I'm glad you're happy. As long as you never make me do that again. Ever. I've already had enough of that happening god.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 07, 2011, 02:02:12 PM
Well Reimu, I could've told you that it was complete stupidity when people said team stacking doesn't exist.

I'm pretty amazed there are people with the balls to even say team stacking doesn't exist.

:/
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 07, 2011, 02:18:11 PM
Wait, this is a joke right? There is no way what WW describes happened right? I didn't knew you had so much rage Whitewish =|

Seriously now. Every game I am spectating/playing, I mind the playerlist. If I spot stacking, I ask people: Balance out or else don't QQ post-game. Especially when playing with new/low skilled members. Now if more people asked this more often, it would be nice.

Edit: or is this teamstacking with the heroes?

EDIT2:  I added a glossary to our sticky thread, because nobody likes scrolling to lookup something. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.0.html
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 07, 2011, 02:33:03 PM
Edit: or is this teamstacking with the heroes?

The game was:

Infinity, Katelin, RV29 and a Korean player (Hakurei)
vs
panda, Dormio, a Korean player and myself (Moriya)

Hakurei did picks, Moriya did all in-game random, Moriya randomed:
Keine (me)
Reisen (panda)
Murasa (Dormio)
Utsuho (Korean player)

I'm pretty sure it was player teamstacking
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 07, 2011, 02:56:23 PM
im pretty sure you can just !sp till everyone is satisfied, team stacking isnt much to complain about when that feature is available on the bots
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 07, 2011, 03:05:00 PM
Wait, this is a joke right? There is no way what WW describes happened right? I didn't knew you had so much rage Whitewish =|

Seriously now. Every game I am spectating/playing, I mind the playerlist. If I spot stacking, I ask people: Balance out or else don't QQ post-game. Especially when playing with new/low skilled members. Now if more people asked this more often, it would be nice.

Edit: or is this teamstacking with the heroes?

EDIT2:  I added a glossary to our sticky thread, because nobody likes scrolling to lookup something. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.0.html
Its old times where we don't even have thanuris and dorakyura here
aand at that time you take a break from DotS if memory serves so you didn't have any idea whats going on.
I'm not QQing with lolraped but i mad at dat bullshet
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 07, 2011, 03:14:52 PM
why are you getting so mad about something that happened months ago  :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 07, 2011, 04:08:43 PM
not really that mad obv at this time its just i want those people to eat their own bullshit :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 07, 2011, 04:20:11 PM
no i believe the argument was, if there teamstack: say something, else you shouldnt say something after the game.

I remember this specifically happening because rikter was complaining about me and panda being on the same team, and so we would separate ourselves every game.(with an attitude of course)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 07, 2011, 05:55:50 PM
no i believe the argument was, if there teamstack: say something, else you shouldnt say something after the game.
at that time (which is looong tiem ago) i already moaning about teamstack IN THE FCKING GAMELOBBY like "sigh another hakurei reipu here we gao" or "swap x for y person plz" but the culprit just spouting that bullshet all over again so no. Oh its last for a month too so imagine each time you go to school/college, someone throw a dirt to you and (logically) you went maad. But everyone arround you just LOLITSJUSTDIRTGROWUPBUDDY and you saying lolwaisomad
GG
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 08, 2011, 12:40:44 AM
Wait, this is a joke right? There is no way what WW describes happened right? I didn't knew you had so much rage Whitewish =|

Seriously now. Every game I am spectating/playing, I mind the playerlist. If I spot stacking, I ask people: Balance out or else don't QQ post-game. Especially when playing with new/low skilled members. Now if more people asked this more often, it would be nice.

Edit: or is this teamstacking with the heroes?

EDIT2:  I added a glossary to our sticky thread, because nobody likes scrolling to lookup something. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,555.0.html

Teamstacking with players yo, what was I supposed to do in that team I DON'T KNOW.

To put things into perspective, Yuyuko was using her ult on creeps to farm in my lane (Which kept pushing my lane for no reason), Mystia blocks me from killing Utsuho and for half the game just sits behind the lanes doing nothing and letting Reisen farm while KS'ing me, RV randomly leaves my lane to leave me underleveled vs 2 heroes and still lets Reisen farm etc etc.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on October 08, 2011, 02:30:17 AM
rikter line of thought:

Is WW/Dular/Hero on my team?
if no teamstack
if yes !start

he is the only one that really complains a lot about teamstack even if the teams aren't actually stacked  :V

also pick flandre AUTOMATIC BALANCE, clearly dots devs pictured this situation already and gave you a solution for it!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 08, 2011, 02:55:10 AM
Screw this, I'm getting tired of being team stacked against, happens again today.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 08, 2011, 03:58:03 AM
also pick flandre AUTOMATIC BALANCE, clearly dots devs pictured this situation already and gave you a solution for it!
(http://i51.tinypic.com/16m9iwy.jpg)
Also i nominated this quote as Quote of the Year no one can deny this

also
Quote
WW
fcuk u
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on October 08, 2011, 06:18:48 AM
...huh. No clue what to say about Yamame being unbanned. I...guess I'm happy? If ult is banned, though, that just makes her boring...
Don't know what to think.
And Helepolis, I'd really dispute her being 'fine' without ult. 1) She's boring as fuck, and 2)...well...w/e, I guess.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 08, 2011, 07:04:28 AM
It's not just her ult Amra. It's her spiders and web too. You can only level R and stats :smug:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 08, 2011, 08:03:10 AM
In this scenario, Yamame is a gun.  Gun is very lethal, so banned.  We try unbanning the gun, but just to make sure nothing too bad happens, they ban bullets instead.  Now gun useless.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 08, 2011, 08:32:45 AM
I dunno man. Throwing guns can hurt people quite a lot.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on October 08, 2011, 08:37:15 AM
Actually I would prefer her spiders to be nerfed, or making it back to her old spiders. Her ult doesn't instagib that much because she hardly had the mana to spam it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 08, 2011, 09:04:09 AM
In this scenario, Yamame is a gun.  Gun is very lethal, so banned.  We try unbanning the gun, but just to make sure nothing too bad happens, they ban bullets instead.  Now gun useless.

Quote
Guns don't kill people. I do!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 08, 2011, 10:54:35 AM
I dunno man. Throwing guns can hurt people quite a lot.
somehow i laughed more than i should from this
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 08, 2011, 01:57:43 PM
Unbanning Yamame and putting restrictions on her is pointless. Either ban her or unban her.

For the record I think she should be banned. But whatever, it doesn't matter to me any way.

In this scenario, Yamame is a gun.  Gun is very lethal, so banned.  We try unbanning the gun, but just to make sure nothing too bad happens, they ban bullets instead.  Now gun useless.

People shoot guns?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 08, 2011, 03:10:17 PM
Coming up next, Camera unban! Only on #dots-meido
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 08, 2011, 03:23:08 PM
It's probably possible to play Yamame without much loss in effectiveness by banning only her ult. Maybe the Kitsune Protection and other additional ms items can be used to mitigate the loss of the webslinging effect, but ehh... that wasn't my point. Thanuris is right. She'd be friggin' boring to play, maybe second only to Koishi-BRBLOLAFK-Komeiji. Unless you go farm 6 active items.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 08, 2011, 04:12:47 PM
>yamame
>farmfarmfarm at early
>get Yata
>backdoorfest
inb4 i got killed by Amra (also this is why i hate fighting her in garena)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 08, 2011, 07:32:44 PM
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9512.msg728687.html#msg728687
Now we can judge girls's powerlevels based from this
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 08, 2011, 07:33:39 PM
We're banning Yamame because she lags games extremely bad with her spiders or w/e the hell. We played a very nice 1 fps game today. Broken ult + broken girl == bye
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 08, 2011, 07:34:09 PM
Now for Lunasa next!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 08, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9512.msg728687.html#msg728687
Now we can judge girls's powerlevels based from this

Powerlevel discussions are banned :smug:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on October 08, 2011, 09:53:19 PM
Tbax, until you use up all 3/4/5 uses of ult, or until 15s pass since you last used it, Ult doesn't cost mana after the first use.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 08, 2011, 10:34:31 PM
I like how quick yamame was banned again :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 09, 2011, 12:35:56 AM
I like how quick yamame was banned again :V

:V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on October 09, 2011, 06:21:51 PM
Is Lunar bow banned again?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 09, 2011, 10:46:53 PM
its perma unban
also that sig w t f
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 10, 2011, 06:53:29 AM
No NSFW sigs.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Teetoku on October 10, 2011, 02:59:56 PM
Darn it... and I'm kinda surprised that PB didn't delete this sig. Awesome.
its perma unban
also that sig w t f
I can smell what the rock is cooking now.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 14, 2011, 08:35:00 PM
Kaguya who has auto lock on danmakus, items that gives you statgain each assist/kill, Minoriko that has only 3 skills, etc etc
What happened to you DotS?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 14, 2011, 08:37:44 PM
What.

That is all.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 14, 2011, 09:03:57 PM
Rage with the changelog. Let's not get too spent all at once y'know :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 14, 2011, 09:05:12 PM
I already have the Korean changelog.
Raging.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 14, 2011, 09:21:15 PM
Dots do.. Do you need an intervention?

We are all worried about you.  We are here to help you.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 14, 2011, 11:14:04 PM
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff404/M-Reimu/4c66c40fd84305f0fb6cd06e153a42c9-1.jpg)
Someone called me? Miaaww~
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 15, 2011, 12:13:20 AM
I will be posting a list of all the items (0.977) here.

Consumables
Good girl card (70) - Active - Reduces target's attack speed/movement speed by 40% for 5 seconds. 600 cast range. 90 second cooldown.
Bad girl card (70) - Active - Increases your movement speed by 30% for 5 seconds. 90 second cooldown.
Lovers card (70) - Active - Heals the target for (150 + Level x 15) HP. 90 second cooldown.
Sad girl card (70) - Active - Drains (70 + Level x 7) MP from the target, dealing the MP drained as damage. 600 cast range. 90 second cooldown.
SDM Red Tea (75) - Active - Restores 150 MP over 16 seconds. Dispels if attacked.
Hakurei Green Tea (75) - Active - Restores 350 HP of the target over 10 seconds. Dispels if attacked.
Bus ticket (65) - Active - Teleports to an allied structure. 4 second cast time. 60 second cooldown.
Yukkuri (50) - Active - Creates a Yukkuri to carry items for you.
Kappa Detector (150) (2 Charges) - Active - Places an invisible ward to spy on a 1400 area for 180 seconds.
Kappa Life Detector (200) (2 Charges) - Active - Places an invisible ward to spy on a 1400 area for 180 seconds. Has true sight.
Crow Tengu Detector (300) (2 Charges) - Active - Places a crow on a tree to spy on a 900 area for 180 seconds. Has true sight. Has aerial vision.
Baby Tengu (700) - Gives 1000 range true sight. Drops on death.

Merchandise Shop
Snack (325) - HP regeneration +2.
Bun (800) - HP regeneration +4.
Soft Drink (375) - MP regeneration +1.
Sake (875) - MP regeneration +2.
Apple (350) - HP +130.
Gum (1000) - HP +245.
Wing (2000) - HP +475.
ZUN Hat (1000) - HP +170, MP +150.
Grape (350) - MP +110.
Little Bird (1000) - MP +200.
Witch's Broom (500) - Movement speed +35.

Clothing Shop
Grand Dress (250) - Armor +2, Magic Resistance +5%.
Sailor Uniform (450) - Armor +4.
Swimsuit (1200) - Armor +8.
Metal Chest Protector (300) - Reduces incoming physical damage by 6. This item cannot be stacked.
Bloomers (450) - Magic Resistance +9%.
Sin Sack (1200) - Magic Resistance +17%.
Candle (1200) - Evasion +15%. If multiple items with the evasion effect are used, the highest value will be taken.
God's Right Hand (2000) - STR +19.
Tengu's Fan (2000) - AGI +19.
Stolen Grimoire (2000) - INT +19.

Weapon Shop
Fruit Knife (400) - Damage +9.
Scissors (1000) - Damage +16.
Hammer (1500) - Damage +22.
Screwdriver (2000) - Damage +30.
Concordia (6000) - Damage +350. Drops on death.
Tengu Talisman (500) - Attack Speed +12%.
Ice Frog (900) - Damage +9, Attack Speed +9%.
Knife (750) - Lifesteal +10%. This item cannot be stacked.
Bench (1350) - Damage +15, Lifesteal +7.5%. This item cannot be stacked.

Stats Shop
Branch (150) - STR +3.
Cat Mint (150) - AGI +3.
Recipe of Oz (150) - INT +3.
Cucumber (53) - All stats +1.
Graffiti Petal (450) - STR +6.
Cat Ears (450) - AGI +6.
Basics of Magic(450) - INT +6.
Mushroom (185) - All stats +2.
Paper Mask (1000) - STR +10.
Cat Claws (1000) - AGI +10.
Lunar Landing Rocket Manual (1000) - INT +10.
Ice Cube (2300) - All stats +10.

Movement Shop
Magician's Broom + Recipe = Red Llama (1600) - STR +6, Movement speed +50, HP regeneration +20%.
Magician's Broom + Recipe = Green Llama (1500) - AGI +6, Movement speed +50, Attack speed +25%.
Magician's Broom + Recipe = Blue Llama (1700) - INT +6, Movement speed +50, MP regeneration +30%.
Magician's Broom + Recipe = Nine Ball (1100) - Movement speed +50. - Active - Randomly blinks to an area 300~700 units from your current location. 28 second cooldown.
Magician's Broom + Recipe = Gap Generator (2300) - Movement speed +65. - Active - Teleports to any allied unit or structure. 4 second cast time. 60 second cooldown. Cooldown is shared with the bus ticket.

Magical Defense Shop
Gum + Bun + Metal Chest Protector = PAD (2200) - HP +245, HP regeneration +4, reduces all incoming physical damage by 15. This item cannot be stacked.
Sailer Uniform + Swimsuit + Recipe = Myon Balloon (2650) - Armor +15. - Active - Adds an additional 5 armor, and causes the frost effect on enemies that melee attack you for 2 seconds. Lasts 6 seconds. Cooltime 25 seconds.
Wings + Swimsuit + Recipe = Phoenix Wings (4600) - HP +475, Armor +8, Causes 30 divine damage per second to all enemies around you in a 500 AoE. This item cannot be stacked.
Karakasa's Umbrella + Swimsuit + Recipe = Blood Stained Parasol (2800) - Armor +4, Gives +4 armor and +22 damage aura to all allies in a 600 AoE.
Sin Sack + Bloomers + Recipe = ZUN's Glasses (2650) - Magic resistance +30%, When you are hit by an attack that deals more damage than your current HP the damage is reduced by 50%.
Ice Frog + Candle + Recipe = Heaven's Peach (2500) - Attack +9, Attack speed +9%, Evasion +20%, For every 200 damage that you take you gain a charge that gives you +9% attack speed for 12 seconds. Maximum of 6 charges. If multiple items with the evasion effect are used, the highest value will be taken.
Swimsuit + Sin Sack + Recipe = Celestial's Scarf (3200) - Armor +8, Magic Resistance +17%. - Active - Pushes everything in a 300 AoE around you away 300 units. 40 seconds Cooldown.

Mushroom Cafeteria
Snack + Soft Drink + Recipe = Bento (750) - HP regeneration +2, MP regeneration +1. - Active - Gains a charge for every skill used within a 1500 AoE. Maximum of seven charges. Each charge can restore 16 HP and 8 MP. 45 second cooldown.
Bun + Sake = Luxurious Bento (1600) - HP regeneration +5, MP regeneration +2.5.
Grand Dress + Fruit Knife + Bento + Recipe = Are you sure that's enough armor? (3333) - Attack +18, Armor +4, Magic Resistance +9%, HP regeneration +4, MP regeneration +2. - Active - Gains a charge for every skill used within a 1500 AoE. Maximum of seven charges. Each charge can restore 40 HP and 20 MP. Also removes debuffs.
Ice Cube + Luxurious Bento + Recipe = Hakurei Shrine Amulet (4000) - All stats +10, HP regeneration +5, MP regeneration +2.5, Blocks a targetted spell once every 20 seconds.
Snack + Snack + Recipe = Shikeiki's Rod of Remorse (650) - HP regeneration +2, HP regeneration +2 aura.
Shikieiki's Rod of Remorse + Portable Donation Box + Gum + Recipe = Reitaisai Ticket (3200) - HP +400, 600 AoE HP regeneration +4 aura. - Active - 600 AoE 240 HP heal. 60 second cooldown.
Soft Drink + Soft Drink + Recipe = [1?] (750) - MP regeneration +1, 600 AoE MP regeneration +1 aura.
Small Bird + [1?] + Recipe = Yatagarasu (2250) - MP +200, 600 AoE MP regeneration +2 aura. - Active - 600 AoE 120 MP heal. 60 second cooldown.
[1?] + Sin Sack + Recipe = God's Onbanshira (2550) - MP regeneration +2, Magic Resistance +7%, 600 AoE Magic Resistance +11% aura.

[2?]
Apple + Recipe = Portable Donation Box (750) - HP +130. - Active - Deals 600 damage to the target unit and gives you 15 gold. 300 cast range. 50 second cooldown.
Portable Donation Box + Paper Mask + Cat Claws + Lunar Rocket Landing Manual + Recipe = Bone Flute (4000) - HP +130, All stats +10. - Active - For 4 seconds all ally's movement speeds are increased by 40%. 60 second cooldown.
Grape + Recipe = Lunar Hairpin (750) - MP +110, For every 5 seconds that pass you will gain 3 experience points.
Small Bird + Small Bird + Luxurious Bento + Recipe = Hell's Nuclear Control Rod (4750) - MP +400, HP regeneration +5, MP Regeneration +2.5, Reduces cooldown of all skills by 25%.
HJBUG + Recipe = Storm's Crow (3750) - HP +515, MP +450 - Active - Become invulnerable and fly into the air for 4 seconds. 40 second cooldown.
Apple + Grape + Recipe = Maiden's Fresh Fruit (750) - HP +130, MP +110, Every time you level up you have 130 HP and 110 MP restored.
ZUN's Hat + Maiden's Fresh Fruit + Recipe = Lily(2700) - HP +310, MP +260. - Active - Links yourself to the target. If your target gets more than 600 units away from you the link is broken. Lasts 7 seconds. 35 second cooldown.
HJBUG + Maiden's Fresh Fruit + Recipe = Adamantine (5500) - HP +645, MP +560. - Active - You become invulnerable for 2 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

Dangerous Goods Shop
Fruit Knife + Recipe = Watermelon (1500) - Damage +12, Reduces the enemy's armor by 3. Effect cannot be stacked.
Fruit Knife + Scissors + Recipe = Oar (2000) - Damage +26, 20% chance to perform a 1.5x critical attack.
Lunarite + Bench + Recipe = Non-Deciduous (3250) - Damage +20, Attack Speed +30%, 7.5% Lifesteal, 100% Accuracy.
Screwdriver + Bench + Knife + Recipe = Devil's Milk Tooth (5200) - Damage +50, 17.5% Lifesteal. - Active - Attack Speed +100, Movement Speed +30%, +12.5% Lifesteal, Receive 130% damage. Lasts for 7 seconds. 35 second cooldown. Lifesteal cannot be stacked.
Tengu Talisman + Tengu Talisman + Recipe = Lunarite (1500) = Damage +5, Attack Speed +30%.
Mushroom Food + Hammer + Recipe = Tax Collecting Yin Yang Orbs (2350) - All stats +6, Damage +22, Gain a 20% chance to gain an additional 33 points when killing a creep. This effect cannot be stacked.
Oar + Banana + Recipe = Anchor (4000) - Damage +32, All stats +4, 20% chance to perform a 2x critical attack, Movement speed +10%, Every 200 damage you take gives one charge that increases the chance to perform a critical attack by 5%. Maximum of 6 charges. Effects cannot be stacked. Cannot be used with Heaven's Peach.
Hammer + Recipe = Abandoned Umbrella (1550) - Damage +11, 600 AoE +11 Damage aura.
Hammer + Branch + Recipe = Lunar Rabbit's Hammer (2700) - Damage +26, STR +3, 15% chance to perform a {1;melee/0.4;ranged} second stun on attacks.
Watermelon + Screwdriver + Recipe = Watermelon Sword (4500) - Damage +42, Reduces the enemy's armor by 9. Effect cannot be stacked.
Oar + Screwdriver + Recipe = Nice Boat (6000) - Damage +75, 20% chance to perform a 3x critical strike on attacks.

Three Dimensional Shop
Kappa Pistol + Paper Mask + Screwdriver + Recipe = Internet Addiction Eliminator (4900) - STR +14, AGI +14, Damage +30, Armor +4. - Active - Reduces the target's movement speed to 0 for 2 seconds that is recovered over 3 seconds. If the target has more INT than you their INT will be consumed until they regain their movement speed.
Sunflower Hairpin + Wing + Gum + Recipe = Sword of the Gods (5600) - STR +8, AGI +8, HP +750. - Active - Taunts all enemies in a 350 AoE around you for 2.1 seconds. 80 second cooldown.
Mushroom + Recipe = Historian's Records (1000) - All stats +5, Reduces your death timer by 25%.
Ice Cube + Historian's Records + Ice Frog + Recipe = Frozen Heart's Eye (4500) - All stats +15, Damage +9, Attack speed +9%, Reduce your target's movement speed by 35% for 1 second when you attack them.
Very Expensive Present + Lunar Rocket Landing Manual + Sake + Recipe = 3D Escapade (4800) - STR +14, INT +14, Magic Evasion +4%. - Active - Send the target to the 2D world and cause them to take 44% more damage from magic and reduce their movement speed by 35%. The target can neither attack nor be attacked during this time. Lasts for 4 seconds. 450 cast range. 24 second cooldown.
Mushroom + Mushroom + Recipe = Banana (1000) - All stats +4, Movement speed +6%.
Ice Cube + Lunar Hairpin + Recipe = Permanent[?] Hat (4500)- All stats +10, MP +130, If you inflict magic damage on a girl for the next 1 second they will be slowed by 25%.
Yagokoro Doll + Cat Claws + Ice Frog + Recipe = Substitution Doll (4700) - INT +14, AGI +14, Damage +30, Attack Speed +30%. - Active - Creates a clone of yourself and turn yourself invisible. The clone takes 85% damage.Clone and invisibility lasts for 7 seconds. 30 second cooldown.
Historian's Records + Recipe = Moderators (2000) {The recipe can be bought again to level up the item. Maximum level of 5} - All stats +7{+3}. - Active - Creates 3 incubators with 200{+50} HP, 40~40{+10} Damage, 370{+38}Movement speed that have a 0.5{+0.25}% chance to perform a stun every 0.1 seconds. The incubators will multiply every 12{-2} attacks. Incubators last for 30 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
Sunflower Hairpin + Misfortune Charm + Third Eye of Jealousy + Recipe = Light of the Fireflies (6000) - All stats +21, Reduces the length of all negative status effects by 25%, Gain +2 to all stats every time you kill a girl, Gain +1 to all stats every time you get an assist for killing a girl. You lose all bonus stats when you die. Deal Stats Lost x100 magical damage to any girl that kills you. Deal Stats Lost x50 magical damage to any girl that gains an assist for killing you.

Shop of Ease
Branch + Branch + Cat Ears + Recipe = Sunflower Hairpin (1600) - STR +8, AGI +8, Reduces the length of all negative status effects by 15%. This effect cannot be stacked.
Scissors + Graffiti Petal + Recipe = Shinigami's Coin (2350) {The recipe can be bought again to level up the item. Maximum level of 5} - Damage +16, AGI +3{+0.5}, STR +6{+1} - Active - Blinks towards the target location. Maximum distance of 300{+100). 120{-20} second cooldown.
Sunflower Hairpin + Ice Frog = Explorer's Hat (2500) - STR +8, AGI +8, Damage +9, Attack speed +9%. - Active - Removes 275 MP from the target and reduces their accuracy by 40% for 4 seconds. 700 cast range. 30 second cooldown.
Cat Ears + Paper Mask + Hammer + Recipe = Dragon Star (3800) - AGI +6, STR +10, Damage +20. - Active - For 5 seconds reduce the duration of all status effects to 1/998 of the original duration. 75 second cooldown.
Recipe of Oz + Recipe of Oz + Graffiti Petal + Recipe = Misfortune Charm (1600) - STR +8, INT +8. - Active - Gain one misfortune charge for every girl that perishes within a 900 AoE of you. You can deal 50 + 100xCharges magical damage to a target. Maximum of 4 charges.
Basics of Magic + Bun + Recipe = Cure Star (1950) {The recipe can be bought again to level up the item. Maximum level of 5} - STR +6{+1}, INT +6{+1}, Evasion +4%. - Evasion - Heals the target for 250{+100} HP. 600 cast range. 130{-20} second cooldown.
Stolen Grimoire + Branch + Branch + Branch = Hakugyokurou's Fan (2450) - STR +9, INT +19. - Active - Releases a wave that deals 200 + 4xMinutesPassed damage. 975 range. 30 second cooldown.
ZUN's Hat + Graffiti Petal + Lunar Rocket Landing Manual + Recipe = Green Dam Youth Escort (3700) - HP +170, MP +150, STR +6, INT +10. - Active - Blocks all incoming magic damage for 6 seconds. 75 second cooldown.
Basics of Magic + Cat Mint + Cat Mint + Recipe = Third Eye of Jealousy (1600) - AGI +8, INT +8. - Active - Deal 300 magical damage to any girl that kills you. Deal 150 magical damage to any girl that gains an assist for killing you. This effect is not stackable.
Fruit Knife + Recipe of Oz + Recipe of Oz + Recipe of Oz + Recipe = Scarlet Devil Launcher (1750) {The recipe can be bought again to level up the item. Maximum level of 5} - Damage +9, AGI +5{+1}, INT +10{+2} - Active - Fires at 200{+100} damage rocket with a 0.01{+0.25} second stun at a target. Cast range of 400{+100}. 60{-5} second cooldown.
Kappa Pistol + Lunar Rocket Landing Manual + Tengu Talisman = [3?] - AGI +8, INT +10, Armor +4, Attack speed +12%, Each time you attack you place a charge on the target that reduces their magic resistance by 5% and causes them to take an additional 25 magic damage for 2.5 seconds. Maximum of 5 charges.
Cat Claws + Basics of Magic + Bench + Recipe = Crucifix (3650) - AGI +10, INT +6, Damage +15, 7.5% Lifesteal. - Active - Evasion +100% for 4 seconds. 75 second cooldown.

Miscellaneous Stats Shop 1
God's Right Hand + Scissors + Snack + Snack = Shinigami's Scythe (3700) - STR +19, Damage +16, HP regeneration +4, {25;Melee/15;Ranged}% chance to deal an additional 20 magic damage as well as (YourCurrentHP - Enemy'sCurrentHP) x 0.14 magic damage. Not an orb. This effect cannot be stacked.
Paper Mask + Paper Mask + Recipe = Tentacles (4000) - STR +30, 5% chance to stun the target for {2;Melee/1.2;Ranged} seconds when attacking. - Active - Creates a ring of tentacles 500 units wide. The tentacles last for 9 seconds. 20 second cooldown.
Ice Cube + God's Right Hand + Sailor Uniform + Recipe = Poisonous One-Piece (5300) - STR +29, AGI +10, INT +10, Armor +4, Deals 20 + Enemy'sHighestStat x 0.4 magical damage when attacked by a hero. Returns 50 damage to creeps. Maximum(mis-tl?) damage is 50. Effect is not stackable.
God's Right Hand + God's Right Hand = Tacticus (6000) - STR +45, Restores 1.75% of your missing HP every second.
Screwdriver + Cat Claws + Tengu Talisman = Roukanken (3500) -  Damage +30, AGI +10, Attack speed +12%, Burns 4% of the target's maximum MP on every attack and deals {70;Melee/40;Ranged}% of the burnt mana in extra damage. Not an orb. Effect cannot be stacked. Illusions do not gain this effect.
Tengu Fan + Banana + Recipe = Brother Sharp (4000) - AGI +24, All stats +6, Movement speed +14%. Does not stack with other movement speed +% items.
Ice Cube + Tengu Fan + Knife + Recipe = Red Sword of Distortion (5500) - STR +10, DEX +29, INT +10, 10% Lifesteal, Gain 15% bonus damage when attacking a girl or creep.
Tengu Fan + Tengu Fan + Recipe = High Tech Camera (6000) - DEX +45, deals Enemy'sMaxHP x 0.035 magical damage on attack.
Fruit Knife + Lunarite + Lunar Rocket Landing Manual + Yagokoro Doll = Lunar Bow (4000) - Damage +14, INT +16, Attack speed +42%. - Attack - Fires an arrow that deals 100 + 4 x INT damage. Arrow travels 2000 range and is 100 wide. 60 second cooldown.
Stolen Grimoire + Sake + Recipe = Go Home Get Married (4400) - INT +25, MP regeneration +3. - Active - Transforms the target into a Yukkuri for 2.5 seconds. 800 cast range. 120 second cooldown.
Ice Cube + Stolen Grimoire + Bloomers + Recipe = Depressing Violin (5100) - STR +10, INT +29, AGI +10, Magic Resistance +9%, Ignores 35% of the enemy's magic resistance.
Stolen Grimoire + Stolen Grimoire + Recipe = Hakkero (6000) - INT +45, Increases magic damage by 30%.

Miscellaneous Stats Shop 2
Branch + Mushroom + Recipe = Mushroom Kebab (580) - STR +4, All stats +3. - Active - Permanently increases STR by 3.
Graffiti Petal + Soft Drink + Recipe = Very Expensive Present (1100) - STR +8, MP regeneration +1, Gain 5 gold every 10 seconds.
Branch + Graffiti Petal + Paper Mask + Recipe = Jiao Shao Mask (2400) - Damage +5, STR +18, AGI +3, INT +3. - Active - Reduces the damage of enemies in a 300 AoE by 40%. Lasts for 4 seconds. 600 cast range. 60 second cooldown.
Paper Mask + Very Expensive Present = Burning Sake Dish (2800) - STR +23, MP regeneration +1. - Active - Reduces the target's movement speed and magic damage by 40%. Lasts for 4 seconds. 600 cast range. 60 second cooldown.
Cat Mint + Mushroom + Recipe = Mushroom Pie (580) - AGI +4, All stats +3. - Active - Permanently increases AGI by 3.
Cat Ears + Sailor Uniform + Recipe = Kappa Pistol (1100) - AGI +8, Armor +4, Increases damage on non hero targets by 45.
Cat Mint + Cat Ears + Cat Claws + Recipe = Kitsune's Mask (2400) - Damage +5, STR +3, AGI +18, INT +3. - Active - Increases movement speed by 15 and gains 0 pathing. Lasts for 7 seconds. 14 second cooldown. You cannot perform critical strikes whilst Kitsune's Mask is active.
Cat Claw + Little Bird + Recipe = Smartphone (3000) - AGI +16, MP +300, You gain a charge that gives you +5 AGI and restores 5 MP every time you attack. Charges last for 5 seconds. Maximum of 5 charges.
Recipe of Oz + Mushroom = Mushroom Soup (580) - INT +4, All stats +3. - Active - Permanently increases INT by 3.
Basics of Magic + Tengu Talisman + Recipe = Yagokoro Doll (1100) - INT +8, Attack speed +12%. - Active - Heals 240 HP but loses 45 HP every second for 5 seconds 10 seconds after the initial HP gain. You cannot die from the HP loss.
Recipe of Oz + Basics of Magic + Lunar Rocket Landing Manual + Recipe = Broken Stopwatch (2400) - Damage +5, STR +3, AGI +3, INT +18. - Active - Stops the target for 1.44 seconds. 400 cast range. 80 second cooldown.
Sake + Basics of Magic + Lunar Landing Rocket Manual + Recipe = Magician's Hat (2950) - INT +19, MP regeneration +2.5. - Active - Lifts the target up into the air for 3 seconds turning them invulnerable. 700 cast range. 85 second cooldown.

FINALLY DONE.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 15, 2011, 03:10:19 AM
Quote
[14:08] <Shou_Dormamaru> DOTS HAS A FUCKING BLINKDAGGER
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 15, 2011, 08:51:59 AM
Whelp, I'm calling for a Renko ban.  Something ain't right about a 40% chance 300% crit.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 15, 2011, 08:58:57 AM
Dude, that's with everyone.
Hanyu was saying 40% because he had two nice boats. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 15, 2011, 04:58:53 PM
Something useful for 0.977 - a large version of the mini-map.

http://i55.tinypic.com/8x91ms.jpg

And...

http://i55.tinypic.com/2yuklub.jpg

... well, hello there. One of her other companions is also in the map and they both have absolutely stupid skills. But that should be expected by now eh?  :wat:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on October 16, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
APH, GO BE THE HERO AND SAVE DOTS!!!

There're some things I like in the new map, like Suwako's F and Remilia's new gungnir animation, but mostly are crap like reducing max lvl to 20 and too much scaling with too many items. Also, the map is kinda leaky
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 16, 2011, 08:37:34 PM
APH, GO BE THE HERO AND SAVE DOTS!!!

Quote
[03:33] <SiG> wakata desu~
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Nightkriss on October 16, 2011, 08:48:53 PM
Why they nerfed the towers in 977b... It was fun, though genji/hisous get too much bonus.... so they could backdoor as well ;p
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 08:18:49 AM
More cool items is cool, but they overdone it, these items are so overpowered.
(M-Reimu, remember my QBs, and I was super derping that game, I can't play Nue against Remi and Marisa xD)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 17, 2011, 09:07:45 AM
new items still tolerable for me (only for some items btw i.e rod of remorse and miracle fruit)
many INTs has skills that scales makes me wonder which one is the real carry : AGI or INT?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 09:11:08 AM
new items still tolerable for me (only for some items btw i.e rod of remorse and miracle fruit)
many INTs has skills that scales makes me wonder which one is the real carry : AGI or INT?

Magical Nukers are the better carrys since magical damage scaling is so crazy, and ZUN glasses are useless (except the second passive) when they have hakkero and Lunasa's violin. Well you can stack Zun glasses thought
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 17, 2011, 09:13:12 AM
Stack ZUN Glasses and lose out on stuff to kill with.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 09:24:48 AM
Stack ZUN Glasses and lose out on stuff to kill with.

Play Yuugi and don't care at all  :V

I have yet to test Yuuka with Blinkdagger, the problem is that it has to be the 4th recipe since the first 3 I think of getting is Yata -> Kogasa (or Parasol) -> Redllama
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 17, 2011, 10:14:36 AM
APH, GO BE THE HERO AND SAVE DOTS!!!

F10+S, done ;)

Quote
[03:33] <SiG> wakata desu~

Who's this SiG dude? He sounds lame :P

Waiting for people to try out Yuuka and get a surprise (her flowers do half their listed damage... it's a design decision. A pad will reduce that damage to 9 even at max level, and will also nullify spider damage from Yamame now.)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 11:18:37 AM
F10+S, done ;)


Who's this SiG dude? He sounds lame :P

Waiting for people to try out Yuuka and get a surprise (her flowers do half their listed damage... it's a design decision. A pad will reduce that damage to 9 even at max level, and will also nullify spider damage from Yamame now.)

really? I thought they changed the scaling to less imba, so it's a good thing to get parasol since the damage of the flowers is lower now. But it didn't make any big difference since I micro flowers to focus as often as possible. I was quite suprised that the flowers did 7 damage on a tower :V (or so)

I like how the dev thought of getting less rng into the game (Aya procs, PAD procs and so on) but why did they miss out Yuugi's fucking horn.
There was a korean two days ago, He was level 1 and proced 2 times in a row, then on level 3 he proced my teammate with 2 horns. then another creepwave after that he proced 2 creeps  :o. And when fighting against her she proced close to every first hit on me or an ally. Maybe they bugged her procchance.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on October 17, 2011, 12:08:11 PM
New DotS > some new skills are nice, but why all the scaling, too many items, some are good like blink dagger,
                       but some breaks the game like violin, frost hat is retarded, unless they changed yuyuko's aura to
                       pure damage

I can't tolerate the fact that they reduced max level to 20, so dumb
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 17, 2011, 01:11:23 PM
In what way is a blink dagger good  ::)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 01:44:12 PM
In what way is a blink dagger good  ::)

It's good, in a good way,
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 17, 2011, 01:57:55 PM
In what way is a blink dagger good  ::)
Blink in -> Do stuff -> win
or
Walk in -> Do stuff -> blink out -> win.

Either way, think of the scenarios you can create with lolBlinkdagger. Ever played Hatate? Well that is how it is.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 02:11:07 PM
Blink in -> Do stuff -> win
or
Walk in -> Do stuff -> blink out -> win.

Either way, think of the scenarios you can create with lolBlinkdagger. Ever played Hatate? Well that is how it is.

I have yet to see blinking Tenshi Blink Fissure Blockade, Yuuka Blink, Suika Blink Throw,  Okuu Blink Nova (not the Ult thing...)

Thinking of Mugetsu, Sakuya, blink in, damage blink out ^^
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on October 17, 2011, 02:52:59 PM
Blinking Kaguya :P

Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 17, 2011, 04:04:09 PM
Blinking Kaguya :P

Wasted Money
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 17, 2011, 04:51:41 PM
also some of you guys will probably need a rewrite for your guides :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 17, 2011, 09:12:31 PM
also some of you guys will probably need a rewrite for your guides :V
Lets first wait until the map becomes confirmed final including all items and shit. I am not going to rewrite anything until we got something.

Tokiko is retarted OP at first glance. 37 - 15 - 37 as starting stats? Even Yuugi doesn't have those starting stats.

Also lvl 20 heroes. . . for what fucking reason?

So many trollin, it aint funny.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 17, 2011, 09:16:18 PM
I find Renko more retarded but could be fun to play.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 17, 2011, 09:18:08 PM
Sadly it doesnt seem troll, seeing as they released a second version, qnd there are models for more charqcter in it(miko). Im expecting a change on items and there shops though.

Renko is more retarded by her balance and her spells :V wtf they make no sense
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 17, 2011, 10:36:15 PM
rather than THD, devs should rename this map into THLOL
...and i don't like it welp
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CrowCakes on October 18, 2011, 05:32:58 AM
Yuyuko + Hakugyokurou fan.

Anyway, I have a question. Does oar/boat on Suika work?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 18, 2011, 09:09:32 AM
Sadly it doesnt seem troll, seeing as they released a second version, qnd there are models for more charqcter in it(miko). Im expecting a change on items and there shops though.

Renko is more retarded by her balance and her spells :V wtf they make no sense
Still think this is a lolmap. If december was announced as release month, why would they bother releasing stuff now. Unless it got leaked or w/e and thought: "Well, let us just release half-assed even more unbalanced version.

This map is broken in every form.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 18, 2011, 09:28:04 AM
This map is broken in every form.

I like the Yuuka with 1/2 Flower Damage, She's quite Balanced that way.
 :flowerpower:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 18, 2011, 09:37:14 AM
Don't think Yuuka was the biggest concern in 0.977b or 0.967g :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 18, 2011, 09:52:31 AM
What I don't understand is, why'd they update the map from 0.967f to 0.977 instead of 0.967g to 0.977. This means that some old bugs and 'game features' are back, e.g. Shou's pillars can now be used with both E and F hotkeys again. Actually, screw that. I'm not even sure if they updated from 0.967f now that I look back and realize that the change to Shou was made in 0.967a.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Bog42 on October 18, 2011, 09:54:11 AM
Is there going to be a translation for all the new things girls got?
At least for new skills like Byasha's F or Nazrin's ult, etc.
I get what those new modifiers for skill damage do though.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 18, 2011, 09:56:48 AM
Aph has the 977 changelogs (skills etc.) here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg732324.html#msg732324) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg733134.html#msg733134).
I have the items here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8685.msg732434.html#msg732434).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Bog42 on October 18, 2011, 09:59:25 AM
that's not what I meant.
I mean smth like
Youmu now has a new innate skill
Kaguya has been remade for the nth time
Shizuha's skills have been remade
Letty's R skill has been remade
etc.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 18, 2011, 10:02:09 AM
It'd be easier if there was a list of skills that were remade/changed, but it seems like almost everything needs re-translating. The changelog is just useless when the devs don't even bother to keep track of their own changes, e.g. Satori's F skill was changed but the change isn't listed.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Bog42 on October 18, 2011, 10:25:59 AM
At least could you please translate those things that you mentioned in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg732324.html#msg732324)?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 18, 2011, 10:34:18 AM
IMO we wait with the wiki changes , except for the new girls.

The items, re-organization of shops and shit can wait. I want a full solid version first . . .
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 18, 2011, 10:36:21 AM
At least could you please translate those things that you mentioned in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg732324.html#msg732324)?

I'm going to wait for a stable release before I help anybody with translations or if Aph hasn't already done them before I do anything
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 18, 2011, 11:25:43 AM
I just think they wanted to troll all of us with this THlol version.
Nukers are carrys now and carrys are useless  ::)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Bog42 on October 18, 2011, 01:06:48 PM
Thank you for translating those things to us.
Sincerely, rudots nerd.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: metabound on October 18, 2011, 01:17:27 PM
ok new items is so lol, even the frost hat works with damage return from medicine's dress
and is the IIW removed or they just forgot to put it back at the shop?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 18, 2011, 01:20:23 PM
ok new items is so lol, even the frost hat works with damage return from medicine's dress
It works on Yuyuko's Heartstopper. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 18, 2011, 02:57:20 PM
It works on Yuyuko's Heartstopper. :V

How retarded. Inb4 new "frozen frog" effect works on Yuuka's flowers
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: metabound on October 18, 2011, 02:59:29 PM
It works on Yuyuko's Heartstopper. :V

wut? its a good thing dat phoenix is divine damage lol
now i am curious how many char get changed
but where is IIW ;_;
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 18, 2011, 07:09:50 PM
How retarded. Inb4 new "frozen frog" effect works on Yuuka's flowers
i lol'ed for some reason
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 19, 2011, 11:27:25 AM
Stupid Keine combo: D, F, R, W, D, R....  normally it stops here, but... Shinigami's Coin (blink dagger, any level will do), D, F, R....

The blink dagger undoes any transformation and removes any effects... the side effect is that it refreshes all cooldowns for Keine when used in her hakutaku form since it returns her to her normal state.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 19, 2011, 11:33:33 AM
Stupid Keine combo: D, F, R, W, D, R....  normally it stops here, but... Shinigami's Coin (blink dagger, any level will do), D, F, R....

The blink dagger undoes any transformation and removes any effects... the side effect is that it refreshes all cooldowns for Keine when used in her hakutaku form since it returns her to her normal state.
So before Hakutaku mode ends, blink dagger -> Re-Hakutaku ?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 19, 2011, 11:36:16 AM
More like Hakutaku -> Blink Dagger -> Normal
And since changing from Normal to Hakutaku and from Hakutaku to Normal will reset all CD's except W it's  really stupid.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 19, 2011, 11:45:10 AM
Yep what Dora said. When she comes out of hakutaku form, her D, F, R cooldowns are normally refreshed. The blink dagger just forces that to happen earlier. (Shouldn't have said that it refreshes all cooldowns - her W cooldown is obviously not refreshed otherwise it'd be horribly broken.) It's really a lot more lethal in fights than it sounds and since heros generally have less hp now, it can easily take out a support hero in a flash.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 19, 2011, 12:03:10 PM
+ you are immun for 4 seconds of the fight (+ silence the enemy or immun an ally), + stuns + high "travel distance"

really broken
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 19, 2011, 02:59:04 PM
my god all of my why for proper blink item in dots
hina spin > get slowed and stunned > "LOLHINAUWEAK" > blinks when about to explode > OH SHI-
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 19, 2011, 03:00:00 PM
hmmm would hina spin and kanako mof count as a transformation?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 19, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Hina's ult isn't a transformation, so yes she can use that blink when using her ult.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on October 19, 2011, 06:26:43 PM
Here is something ApharmdB helped me make would be a new design for Nitori so that she is more true to her canon self and not be a gundam. We (As in ApharmdB only) is going to present it to the DotS dev in hopes they like it and change it (Not likely...) and I'm wondering what you all think of the changes. Here goes:

Quote
/Nitori stats/
Melee
Str: 19 + 1.8
Agi: 14 +1.3
Int (M): 27 + 2.9
Health: ?
Mana: ?
Move speed: ?
Model (Wishful thinking): On foot with a bag that has robot arms coming out of it
Aspd: ?
Atttack animation: ?
Title: Super Youkai Warhead or Aquatic Engineer

/Skills/

~Innate, Kappa "Exteeeending Aaaaarm"~

Effect: For every lvl gained, increases Nitori's attack range by 10

~First skill, Optics "Optical Camouflage"~

Effect: Turns Nitori sorta-invisible and prevents damage from one attack (Except instant kills) during it's duration
Duration: 8/9/10/11
Cool down: 30/25/20/15 sec
Mana cost: ?

~Second skill, Cucumber Missle Barrage~

Effect: Bombards a area of 300 with missles for 4 secs.
Damage: 75/100/125/150 dps for 4 secs
AOE: 300
Cast range: 600
Cool down:15 sec
Mana cost: ?

~Third skill, Water Sign "Kappa's Flash Flood"~

Effect: Launches a missile that lands after a while in a splash of water that deals 60/90/120/150 magic damage and slows for 25/30/35/40% for 4 secs and pushes heroes from the center of the splash 200 distance with a maximum distance of 280 from the center of the splash.
Damage: 60/90/120/150 magic damage
AOE: 280
Cast time: 0.75 sec
Caste range: 650
Cool down: 15 sec
Mana cost: ?

~Ult, Super Youkai Warhead~

Effect: Launches a homing missle at the target that takes sometime time to activate
Damage: 400/650/900 magic damage
AOE: 325
Move speed: 250/290/330
Unit type: Ward
Health: 400/600/800
Cast time: 1 sec
Activation time: 3 sec
Cast range: 2000
Max range: 3500
Cool down: 90 sec
Mana cost: ?

Also, ApharmdB is thinking of making Nitori like this or something for a future English DotS release. I am so happy :D Nevermind, just some misunderstandings on my part. Seems he will make a mock version on a map and submit it for the devs. But I'm still happy! :D

Also, yeah, it ain't really complete but it's only minor details... >_>

Edit: Alright, Nitori is a melee hero. Forgot to add that....

Edit2: Inspiration goes to Gyrocoptor and Tinkerer (Even though there's barely anything of him in the idea) and a thanks go ApharmdB for helping me :>
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 19, 2011, 07:32:52 PM
Whar the scaling skills
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Bog42 on October 20, 2011, 12:38:41 AM
Yeah
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 20, 2011, 01:41:30 AM
her D skill is UP even for DotA standards
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on October 20, 2011, 04:19:31 AM
Thinking of a real game with the new Nitori, I'd nerf first skill and buff other three.
What about ultimate missile activation? Is it automatic, or Nitori can activate it during its flight?
Would Nitori remain melee hero (by the definition), after innate skill was maxed (basically, 20 level)?

On a side note, I've tested almost all items on actual bonuses.
Also, Tokiko innate does not gain proper refund from almost half of the items.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 20, 2011, 05:15:36 AM
In this changelog, agi now no longer have a passive stunning item, making characters like Mokou very very bad at what they do.

And now like everything gives massive resistance to counter scaling ints.  As Apharm put it, "It's League of Legends with Diablo Balancing(make everything stronger and stronger)."
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 20, 2011, 05:19:22 AM
Not to mention the bazillion other items which have mistakes in their displayed costs... I made a translated document of all the items, ready to import into the stable version when the time comes to do the English translation, and if I'm to believe the math in there, well... screw math education yeah

That version of Nitori was conceived based on an idea of balance that doesn't exist in 0.977 :V

Edit: Oh dear god, I just opened up the 977a map to see the changes. The tower/rax changes were sofaking lazy and retarded!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on October 20, 2011, 07:53:38 AM
Checking the code...
What I see: Pad - Reduces incoming non-hero damage by 50%
What I get:
Code: [Select]
if UnitHasItemOfTypeBJ(target,'I02V')then
    set phyduce = phyduce * (1 - 0.40)
endif

Also, bug with Grand Dress and Bloomers is not fixed. Now with more magic resistance on latter!
Code: [Select]
set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.09)
set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.14)
// developers just have to replace 'I018' with 'I015' in the first line to fix that bug

ZUN's Glasses seems to be only "fixed" item from the bug list posted earlier.

Yeah, the way it should be. :colbert:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 20, 2011, 08:32:01 AM
Thinking of a real game with the new Nitori, I'd nerf first skill and buff other three.
allofmywhy.gif
the skill only blocks one attack (i assume it can block both physical and magical damage btw) and it has long cd and like i said its UP even for dota standard (DotS>DotA in terms of imbaness). Imagine how sad that skill vs someone like yamame/nazrin/rumia and everyone who has multihit spells/passives

That version of Nitori was conceived based on an idea of balance that doesn't exist in 0.977 :V
lol
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Doll.S CUBE on October 20, 2011, 03:10:05 PM
allofmywhy.gif
the skill only blocks one attack (i assume it can block both physical and magical damage btw) and it has long cd and like i said its UP even for dota standard (DotS>DotA in terms of imbaness). Imagine how sad that skill vs someone like yamame/nazrin/rumia and everyone who has multihit spells/passives

Well, my first thought for that skill, I was thinking it could return 100% of the mana used if you don't hit while it was activated and 50% mana if you do get hit as well but then I thought that was a bit too much....

Edit: Actually, if you all could help as well and think up suggestion and tweaks for the skills it be neat. Also, the missle activation delay thing is it taking it's time to launch from the platform Nitori would set up for it.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 20, 2011, 03:43:57 PM
I should add that the reason why DollS mentioned that her D skill turns her "sort of invisible" is because it's not meant to be the usual kind of invisibility that Wriggle/Sunny has. It's supposed to remove her model and shadow and health-bar, turn her targeting priority to 0 and remove her from the mini-map, i.e. the only way you're going to know where she is is if she attacks something, and even then you need to figure out where to click to target her. It's a little iffy though, because although it's doable, making a skill like that relies on exploiting a (long-standing) bug in the WC3 engine.


Checking the code...
What I see: Pad - Reduces incoming non-hero damage by 50%
What I get:
Code: [Select]
if UnitHasItemOfTypeBJ(target,'I02V')then
    set phyduce = phyduce * (1 - 0.40)
endif

Also, bug with Grand Dress and Bloomers is not fixed. Now with more magic resistance on latter!
Code: [Select]
set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.09)
set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.14)
// developers just have to replace 'I018' with 'I015' in the first line to fix that bug

ZUN's Glasses seems to be only "fixed" item from the bug list posted earlier.

Yeah, the way it should be. :colbert:

Mm.. will post that in the dev group. Thanks. There're so many of these typos and bugs because they didn't bother to playtest changes one by one  :wat:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 20, 2011, 03:46:51 PM
But in effect, even true-sight items won't reveal her then.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 20, 2011, 03:52:29 PM
Yep, it's meant to be like that so that countering the skill requires manual observation (yeah, not always easy) instead of buying true-sight items/wards. Makes it more useful for running away (hey she's a shy kappa) too. The damage-block part of course has its counters (not as easy to counter with Yamame as one might think though), but that's why the skill has 2 effects.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 21, 2011, 05:36:04 AM
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaJi85QO0qzdGJqazhsanBFY0dGZ3hjeXFqdmd1SlE&hl=en_US

For those who don't want to math, after fooling around with the above spreadsheet, one can safely say that Kaguya effectively had about 1.5 to 1.6x her listed health prior to 0.977b, and about 1.4 to 1.5x her listed health in 0.977b with the damage reduction change. Unless you have very high damage attacks, e.g. via Concordia.

Feels less Hourai Immortal-ish now and more Juggernaut-wannabe.

Edit: This also means that if Kaguya's hp regen per second is at least 0.35 x her attackers' dps (after taking into account considerations from armour/pad), it is impossible for her attackers to kill her.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on October 21, 2011, 10:01:03 AM
Quote
Yuugi's Shackles Sign 'Shackles a Criminal Can't Take Off' movement speed reduction increased from 30% to 45%,
attack speed reduction decreased from 30% to 25% and now does 25% magic damage
That's not correct. There should be written "reduces target's magic damage by 25%".

Also as expected, Momiji still stuns/damages twice with her R skill. :colbert:
Code: [Select]
set w = CreateUnit(GetOwningPlayer(caster), 'n001', GetUnitX(target), GetUnitY(target), 0)
call UnitAddAbility(w,'A09T')            // this ability does 60/90/120/150 damage
call SetUnitAbilityLevel(w,'A09T',level) // and stuns for 2.0/2.5/3.0./3.5 sec
call IssueTargetOrder(w,"thunderbolt",target) // stun cast #1

call UnitMagicDamageTarget(caster, target, 30 + level * 30 + GetHeroInt(caster,true))
call UnitStunTarget(caster, target, 1.2 + level * 0.4, 0, 0) // stun cast #2
Stun #1 duration obviously does not scale with items' passives like Sunflower Hairpin.

On the other note, I discovered an item called "Hourai Branch", which was implemented in 0977+ versions, but have not been added to the shop yet.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 21, 2011, 10:03:54 AM
Feels less Hourai Immortal-ish now and more Juggernaut-wannabe.
Kaguya swap makes Komachi swap become more shittier than it is
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 21, 2011, 11:20:24 AM
Kaguya swap makes Komachi swap become more shittier than it is

u dum, kaguya doesnt have a swap
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 21, 2011, 12:16:06 PM
Train wreck. These devs are train wrecks.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 21, 2011, 12:33:52 PM
u dum, kaguya doesnt have a swap

well not a swap but a stupid teleport thing that does either damage enemys or heals allys. It will force the unit to teleport x into the direction the unit is viewing, so you can just "push" enemys into your 5 man ball (which is the idea of swap I guess)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 21, 2011, 12:36:57 PM
Its just force staff
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 21, 2011, 12:39:10 PM
Its just force staff

doesn't change the fact that it's stupid
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 21, 2011, 12:48:56 PM
I didnt say it wasnt....  :wat:,

Also new tower/rax placement looks fun
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 21, 2011, 12:51:35 PM
That's not correct. There should be written "reduces target's magic damage by 25%".

Thanks. Will correct the changelog when I'm back. I really shouldn't be translating or doing any form of reading immediately after waking up... Waitwut.. the Chinese changelog just says "magic damage 0% -> 25%". Bah. I'll just assume that you had a peek at the code for the skill and saw its actual magic damage reduction effect yes?

And yes the Hourai Branch is a future item. The graphic is already in the map, labeled hilariously as neetwood.

Kaguya swap makes Komachi swap become more shittier than it is

The healing potential from that skill makes Minoriko cry. And with her passive, Kaguya is more M than Tenshi :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 21, 2011, 01:01:27 PM
Also i guess this would be version D? If we counted it starting from c. Do they still plan to make anymore major changes?

Less i edit the wiki now, more work in the future orz
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 21, 2011, 01:16:29 PM
Nope this is version b :3

The 0.977di??? versions were just... pre-alpha releases or something. Notice that only 0.977a and 0.977b were posted by December herself. Besides, with the tonne of bugs in the map currently and balance tweaks to be made, I wouldn't expect this to be stable any time soon...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 21, 2011, 01:32:26 PM
 :colbert: well crap, i may just edit my own user page and have stuff there so when the time comes i can just copy paste, srsly the work is pileing up and becoming so much :effort:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 21, 2011, 02:38:50 PM
u dum, kaguya doesnt have a swap
simillar to that but she doesn't sent herself to got raped by enemies and its instant
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 23, 2011, 05:49:31 PM
Hey, would a lot of you be opposed to the idea of taking Renko and Tokiko, some items(probably have to put in a new shop as a result), new innates, and possibly 5v5 from .977 and refitting them for .967?

I think a lot of us would rather play Defense of the Shrines rather League of Maidens.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on October 23, 2011, 07:39:06 PM
No, this version is best version (it's not like 967 is THAT balanced anyway)

Also let developing to the original devs, some day they will get it right, we just need to wait  :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 23, 2011, 09:04:27 PM
Also let developing to the original devs, some day they will get it right, we just need to wait  :derp:
I've been waiting for around a year. All it did was get worse. :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 24, 2011, 01:25:33 AM
Hey, would a lot of you be opposed to the idea of taking Renko and Tokiko, some items(probably have to put in a new shop as a result), new innates, and possibly 5v5 from .977 and refitting them for .967?

I think a lot of us would rather play Defense of the Shrines rather League of Maidens.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/23vxrmv.jpg)
why not? 5v5 and Tokiko+Renko mod for 0.967 is already enough for me

No, this version is best version (it's not like 967 is THAT balanced anyway)
my little Thanuris can't be this baka!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on October 24, 2011, 05:30:16 AM
I assume, the idea was to make all  spells more useful in the late game phase. If main attributes scale as the game play goes, why spells should have fixed damage all time? I have not played LoL/HoN/whatever, but that's how I think.

Quote
- Magic resistance is now an integer statistic for each unit and will follow the same calculation as damage reduction from armour
(e.g. each point of armour/magic resistance will add 6% effective health vs physical/magic damage)
I'd agree with that, if I haven't found "DefenseArmor=0.05" string in the map archive. This means lesser damage reduction for 1 point of physical armor.
However, function of calculating magic resist involves 0.06 coefficient.

Quote
- Items that grant physical damage reduction against non-hero physical damage will now work at half-efficiency against physical damage from summoned units and buildings
This was introduced in 0.977a. I guess they forgot to tell that earlier.

Quote
- Grudge Bow's magic resistance reduction of 5% changed to magic resistance reduction of 5
There should be 1.5.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on October 24, 2011, 05:55:30 AM
The stupid thing is that it completely invalidates the carries, who were the only ones who scaled into late game before. If the casters, who were meant to either end the game early or support said carries until they got powerful, suddenly become as powerful late game, there's no point to having a carry.

Because the spellcasters are carries now, but with AoE.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 24, 2011, 05:59:42 AM
Thanks. Corrected the typo. Regarding armour, I haven't been poking around the map much recently, waiting for a stable version first before starting on any translation/optimization, but I wonder if the devs meant to change the armour coefficient to 5%. Could've sworn it used to be 6% as well.

The 967 to 977 change seems to be as divisive here as it is over at touhou.cc/HF game rooms. I think the scaling issue is being blown out of proportion though - after tweaking things around, the final damage of most spells should remain the same or near what they were in 967g, taking into account hero base stats+attribute bonus skill. The difference that it makes is that it'll take more time for skills to reach their full potential, and at the same time give some leeway for int heros to improve the potency of their nukes at the cost of survivability (notice that hp values are much lower in 977 generally). The max hero level reduction was also supposed to achieve this effect, making survivability items that much more important to everyone, especially in a 5v5 game. It does make it more irritating to play, because it's now harder to gauge when a spell will be able to finish off someone without doing some calculation, so it'll take time for people to adapt and gain the experience needed for gauging such things. As for the new items, they're just... well, I don't think they were needed and still don't think they add much to the game, but it's a choice whether one wants to go for them or not. Some don't even make sense (I'm looking you, Miko's Divine Sword.)

Regarding casters vs carries, the 977 game is quite different now, hence the proliferation of magres items. It's now a bit more of a Final Fantasy-like system of counters. If one team has chosen too many casters to carry their late-game, it's possible to stack magres to ridiculous levels and nullify their damage, even if they buy things like Hakkero and the Violin. On the other hand, it's still harder to nullify agi carries' physical damage output. Agi carries can still win the game, but they'll have a much harder time now in a 5v5 environment with crappier survivability. As I mentioned though, tweaks are still on-going, e.g. Alice's dolltrain could do >1k damage each time the train crashed into you with 12 dolls in 977b. :V The biggest thing that I'm not liking about this is how they're going about the balancing, and some of the other devs have said the same thing too in the QQ chatroom, so I don't know why upward balancing is still the default way.

Lack of playtesting results in funny bugs like this

(http://i51.tinypic.com/jrfibl.png)

(I've seen Tenshi with 8 of those things before.)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 24, 2011, 06:04:48 AM
I assume, the idea was to make all  spells more useful in the late game phase. If main attributes scale as the game play goes, why spells should have fixed damage all time? I have not played LoL/HoN/whatever, but that's how I think.
assume i'm one of devs
-dammit they whining about gayagis but me don wanna nerf mai waifu!!
-*giggles* oh wow LoL is faannn dude xD lets force this shit for our DotS...agis are imbashit winbutton so wai not buff non agis???Killing two birds with one stone rite XDD
-"saw many players raged about this metagame"
-YOUDONTLIEKMAIGAMESYOUMUSTBEATROLL
-ban any comparing DotS with LoL threads in touhou.cc
odear
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 24, 2011, 06:11:34 AM
-dammit they whining about gayagis but me don wanna nerf mai waifu!!

I rage at this being the biggest failure of the devs.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on October 24, 2011, 07:39:06 AM
Also let developing to the original devs, some day they will get it right, we just need to wait  :derp:

Agreed, except for the part that they will get it right someday :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 24, 2011, 07:46:43 AM
5v5 matches are going to be pure chaos and tremendous ganking is what I am guessing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 24, 2011, 07:59:11 AM
Some don't even make sense (I'm looking you, Miko's Divine Sword.)

Did you know that Miko's Divine Sword (神之剑) gives more HP than Tacticus? :V

And the taunt effect on it sucks, I already tried using it because it looked like a funny item, and well... Uh, yeah, I can see what you mean. A lot of the new items that were added seem to just be there to add flavor to the game rather than having any actual worth in usage... I recall Cure Star being run on a Tokiko (I forgot who) but I'm not sure if I ever saw it used. Furthermore, some of the new recipes are a hassle to remember now (Yatagarasu = Little Bird + Lantern???) and there are way too many shops. :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 24, 2011, 08:08:36 AM
Go to the changelog page (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9111.msg736794.html#new) and search for "Yuuka"

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4531/bbc08f7306b377cca81061b.jpg)

[...]
new recipes are a hassle to remember now (Yatagarasu = Little Bird + Lantern???) and there are way too many shops. :getdown:

Super easy those new recipes :-)
Yata is 2 drinks + recipe + birdy + recipe. Giving a mana reg aura and mana on use, and extra mana for your mana pool. Hurray
Lets see, Red Llama: Broom + RED LLAMA
EASY!!!!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: trancehime on October 24, 2011, 09:26:26 AM
It took me 5 minutes to figure out which shop to actually check the goddamn recipe for Lantern (which is indeed 2x Soft Drink).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 24, 2011, 11:18:36 AM
Miko's sword is basically the old M-Ko effect on Karasa surprise box?

THERE ARE TOO MANY SHOPS IN DOTS NOW. THE *****.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 24, 2011, 01:12:30 PM
New topic: unban everything except yamame,weather, brownbeta, magicalness, QQ, and backdoor. Yamame was rebanned for that insane lag she causes :V. Camera was nerfed and character wise, well lets say that everyone can be lunasa, and everyone can be rumia. Wriggle im sure is lol easy now, her base hp was lowered and she was already squishy before.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 24, 2011, 04:55:10 PM
there are way too many shops. :getdown:
Same retarded shit as THDB god that map mfw 11 items+ needed to make high end items??
still refuse to call 977 a DotS map
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Tapsa on October 24, 2011, 06:27:07 PM
Complaining about too many shops and enormous item builds? You haven't seen anything yet, go play Moo Moo.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 24, 2011, 06:40:55 PM
Once we finished processing the wiki pages, we can start with unbanned girls and items ye.

Like rawr said, we keep the other stuff banned.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 25, 2011, 04:51:44 AM
Typing -cloth01 in the character selection screen lets you select the alternate model for the girl, e.g. Sakuya, Mystia, Sanae, etc while -cloth00 selects the normal one. This works in the 0.977 maps, but I'm not sure if it works in 0.967g...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: swdn on October 25, 2011, 05:18:33 AM
Item - 6 ball

Recipe: (1050)
Witch's Broom - 500
Total - 1550

Stats:
+50 movement speed

Movement speed does not stack with Llamas, 9 ball, Gap Generator.

Effect: Nuclear Fission (passive)
When dealing magic damage, ignores 4 target's magic resistance.

Item - Gensokyo Diary

Recipe: (1100)
Bloomers - 450
Sailor Uniform - 450
Historian's Book - 1000
Banana - 1000
Total - 4000

Stats:
+12 all stats
+6 armor
+6 magic resistance
+9% movement speed

Movement speed bonus does not stack with Banana, Brother Sharp, Anchor.

Effect: Gensokyo Origins (passive)
Reduces resurrection time by 25%. After death adds +8 to all stats for 240 seconds.


However, according to map script, Gensokyo Diary does not give magic resist bonus, and stats bonus after death lasts 180 seconds. Also, while checking magic resist function, I accidentally found bug with Merlin F skill, which increases target's magic resistance (but should reduce it as well as armor).
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Conqueror on October 25, 2011, 05:21:20 AM
So I hear Lyrica can permanently reduce cooldowns with each kill.

 :trollface:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 25, 2011, 05:49:47 AM
Quote from: ApharmdB 0.977d3 translation
Yuyuko's Sakura Sign 'Perfect Cherry Blossom of Sumizome' damage changed from 60/90/120/150 to 60/90/120/151

Here we go again.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 25, 2011, 11:59:19 AM
its actually started when they increased her aura damage by 1 :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on October 25, 2011, 04:40:30 PM
Here we go again.

The movement speed was funny to a degree.  This is just unnecessary :|

Words!

While yes, I think some of us(myself included) are blowing this out of proportion, the thing is that this dots group was formed to play.. Well, Touhou dota, not League of Legends Touhou.

For a videogame example, imagine you are playing Chrono Trigger, possibly Earthbound but suddenly halfway through it turns into a Final Fantasy game.  I think most people would have the right to be upset.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 25, 2011, 05:33:53 PM
Actually, since I've never played LoL before (only seen videos of it), the comparisons between THDotA and THLoL don't mean so much to me. For the record, I'm no big fan of DotA either, but that's not because of the gameplay which I'll admit is very very well done. The characters are still more or less the same (don't know what Renko and Tokiko are doing in there though), the gameplay still involves the same elements of ganking, laning, last-hitting, denying, pushing, etc, except that it's less prone to devolving into 1v4s ala 967g's Flandre/Tengus, and the map's still mostly the same (minus some towers and a large doll). Unless one exclusively played Kaguya in 0.967g, it's hard for me to see how the game is completely different now.

Objectively speaking, after playing a couple of 0.977 games and 0.967, I think 0.977 does make some progress in balancing the gameplay. It may have made a few strides backwards in some areas but also several forwards and with some (a lot) more number tweaks and bugfixes, it should be much better soon.

My version of the videogame analogy would be playing Red Alert and then suddenly having Red Alert 2 units show up as reinforcements. There's more to the game than damage calculation formulae and most of the old items are still there after all. Being apprehensive about such a massive change is understandable after all and being upset about the lack of playtesting is perfectly fine, and yes there's nothing stopping any group from staying at 0.967g. But claiming that 0.977 has jumped the shark is premature and I think a little silly, given that it's starting to look better now. Generally, the players over in the HF rooms are moving towards 0.977 now. There're only a few 0.967 games around these days compared to when 0.977's first release, but that's expected when there's such a large change. Sure, the next tournament there will still be held on 0.967g, but that's because it's unlikely that 0.977 will stabilize and that players will have fully adapted to the changes before the tournament. (They're also considering postponing the tourney and having it on 0.977 instead.)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 25, 2011, 05:59:03 PM
Objectively speaking, putting all my rage aside, there isn't any problems with CHANGE-WE-CAN.

But if you look at the primary inspiration of DotS, it is (no matter how you look at it), a touhou-fied DotA. Logically, people expect it to be DotA alike and not follow the tracks of LoL. Now I don't know how DotA2 exactly evolved. Whether DotA2 has scaling skills or not, who knows (anybody?).

0.977 isn't really hopeless, but it isn't really look any good either. They are still releasing half-assed stuff. I thought the month december was going to be release month? What made them release suddenly these versions prematurely? I think the biggest concern is their lack of play-testing. If they would play test more and stop releasing these versions like Christmas candies, it would become more acceptable and less anti-movement.


Aside my manly tears and raging on IRC, I remain serious about this game and development around it. I have already started editing the items on wiki. Once that stuff is done, I will remove ALL bans (except few exceptional) on Rinnosuke. We'll simply have to restart our view and start accepting that this is the future of DotS.

It may sound dumb, but we have to DWI simply. Real men and women do this.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on October 25, 2011, 09:18:03 PM
THERE ARE NO REAL MEN OR WOMEN ON THE INTERWEBS!!!

:V

:effort: to relearn the game really
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 26, 2011, 06:53:08 AM
There isn't much to relearn, except for the location of the items and new recipes. Though most things remain the same, such as IAE , Control rod etc. It is just that items such as HJ's BUG now became pure HP/MP items and are built different.

If you wikiedit like me, you learn faster :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 26, 2011, 07:33:35 AM
But if you look at the primary inspiration of DotS, it is (no matter how you look at it), a touhou-fied DotA. Logically, people expect it to be DotA alike and not follow the tracks of LoL. Now I don't know how DotA2 exactly evolved. Whether DotA2 has scaling skills or not, who knows (anybody?).

Wasn't DotA2 a close to 1:1 copy of Dota with some tweaking? As far as I know, Tanks are tanky, Nukers are nukey. And Carrys are carriey because their stats and their skills and stats are supposed to scale with items. Not like lol dots where some carry don't scale as much as a stupid nuker anymore.
(you can take a look into the dota2 wiki :-) http://dota2wiki.com/wiki/Lina)

I personally hate too much scaling
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on October 26, 2011, 12:14:55 PM
DotA2 is the same as DotA but with upgraded graphics/shop systems/interface (it's more like a remake of DotA than a sequel, and i'm guessing that there will be new heroes on it eventually)

by the way: best version
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 26, 2011, 12:53:12 PM
Honestly, after playing a couple of games in 977 game play isnt to different. Just needed to get use to how game turning some things can be.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 26, 2011, 01:07:17 PM
I haven't played any games yet in 0.977 so cannot judge yey, maybe tonight.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 26, 2011, 02:17:32 PM
I haven't played any games yet in 0.977 so cannot judge yey, maybe tonight.

yes, yes, YES, want to be Rumia since it's allowed again  :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on October 26, 2011, 02:32:05 PM
dude rumia last night was stomped on, by EVERYONE.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on October 26, 2011, 03:05:09 PM
Rumia can barely survive with all the nuking going on. O_o
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on October 26, 2011, 03:16:36 PM
dude rumia last night was stomped on, by EVERYONE.

yeah because Carry are no carry anymore, they are just derp  :derp: :derp: :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 26, 2011, 04:39:47 PM
want to be Rumia since it's allowed again
horoshocked.jpg
 
by the way: best version
Quote
my little thanuris can't be this baka!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 26, 2011, 09:04:13 PM
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines/Items

0.977d3 items == go.

thanks Aph for the CC link and help
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on October 27, 2011, 01:45:02 AM
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines/Items

0.977d3 items == go.

thanks Aph for the CC link and help

take my money (and my gratitude)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on October 29, 2011, 06:31:56 AM
Any idea why latest version of DotS League of the Shrines got spiked hard sometimes in every single game? How lame when you tries hard to counter and failed because 1 uber spikesland
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on October 29, 2011, 06:34:12 AM
Yuyucow's ult seems to cause big spikes.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on October 29, 2011, 07:35:46 AM
The new damage system wasn't properly implemented and leads to several infinite loop bugs which cause massive slowdowns (not related to ping). The most common cause is someone buying the Grudge Bow. It gets worse when someone buys the Grudge Bow and uses an AoE spell - depending on how the damage loop is written, you'll either deal nigh infinite damage (e.g. Mokou, Reimu, Sanae, etc) or no damage at all (Marisa, Byakuren, etc). In fact, anyone who is able to reduce magres can cause such spikes, but the Grudge Bow is by far the worst offender.

The bug has been identified though and probably the reason why the next version is taking such a long time to be released is because rectifying it involves re-writing lots of triggers.

To see the bug: http://www.mediafire.com/?fjpzk1cgpt6qcx6
(Note: Doable with only lvl 1 in the spell. Now imagine 10 of these things going on at once :V)
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on October 30, 2011, 06:59:04 PM
Well, we still keep the "play 977 at own risk msg" for a reason.

You know what kind of hurts my soul ? :V Poor Aph is TLing all these changes but the devs keep failing making it almost look like he is TLing for nothing :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on November 03, 2011, 01:23:57 PM
Quote
Hakurei Shrine Tea's effect changed from healing 350 health over 10 seconds to healing 250 health over 25 seconds and is now uninterruptible
what a hillarious way to make tango-like item
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on November 03, 2011, 01:24:57 PM
i think its more like LoL potion, heal for meh amount over a really long time.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on November 03, 2011, 01:49:22 PM
oh so its an item from LoL
asd why devs y u do dis
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on November 03, 2011, 03:03:45 PM
oh so its an item from LoL
asd why devs y u do dis

For more rage
RAAAAAAAAGEEEEEE

I guess they love this stupid stupid stupid game. LoL is the worst AoS, just cause
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Goodwarrior on November 07, 2011, 03:38:24 PM
Hi
I want play League of Maidens.  :V
Can i play here?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Captain Infinity on November 09, 2011, 12:18:47 AM
oh so its an item from LoL
asd why devs y u do dis

It because it's to differentiate it from LoL rite. The devs seem to be in denial about how it's TH LoL instead of TH DotA now :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Thanuris on November 09, 2011, 12:25:33 PM
Hi
I want play League of Maidens.  :V
Can i play here?

Hello Goodwarrior, i have no idea about what happened on Bunbunmaru but feel free to play with us! (i already told you guys that you were welcomed here anytime!)

In case you did not know, you need to join the IRC (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=dots-meido) to play games with us.

by the way oppyasik u dum
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on November 09, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
by the way oppyasik i'm baka xD
finally someone who is really honest
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on November 15, 2011, 09:14:44 PM
Crossing my fingers in hopes the new buff system works and we get some form of balance.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Amraphenson on November 15, 2011, 10:36:51 PM
Don't jynx it, bro.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on November 16, 2011, 09:07:08 AM
Don't jynx it, bro.
TOO LATE.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on November 16, 2011, 04:00:49 PM
Well, there's always hope that the dev team merger with the folks over at luren.cc after the .978 version will result in something good. I wonder if they'll just throw out the jass code entirely and replace it with their own systems.

On the other hand, those guys did imbadota...
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on November 16, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
only good things can happen when dots devs and dotaimba devs combine  :getdown:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dular on November 16, 2011, 06:00:33 PM
only good things can happen when dots devs and dotaimba devs combine  :getdown:

Updated HJ dots?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on November 17, 2011, 08:34:45 AM
dotsimba, yes we can.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on November 19, 2011, 06:55:56 AM
OMG DotS! GOGOGO!!!
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Conqueror on November 19, 2011, 11:34:10 AM
I almost spotted a wild dots game in its natural habitat today.   :ohdear:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on November 19, 2011, 11:36:05 AM
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I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dorakyura on November 19, 2011, 02:28:50 PM
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I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM.

Boing~♥  :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :V :derp:
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on November 20, 2011, 10:53:28 PM
977g is out i wonder who was lucky enough to get 40hp per str :V


Well im dieing to know how komachi, flandre, cucumber connon were changed
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on November 22, 2011, 10:44:32 AM
December is closing in. So can we finally get a good non-troll version release?
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: CloverNaght on November 23, 2011, 08:10:21 AM
December is closing in. So can we finally get a good non-troll version and non-retarded metagame release?
fixed
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on November 23, 2011, 09:37:48 AM
Flandre's nerf is makes her quite balanced I think, Nitori is more comfortable to use and Komachi becomes quite OP (perhaps, but I'll have to take a look in-game to confirm). Yeah, I think December may bring good updates to DotS
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on November 23, 2011, 09:47:42 AM
inb4 it takes 3 months for 977h to come out, thereby skipping December entirely.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Pesco on November 23, 2011, 09:54:43 AM
But dawg, December said in December (ry :V
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on November 23, 2011, 10:14:39 AM
inb4 it takes 3 months for 977h to come out, thereby skipping December entirely.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: tbax704 on November 23, 2011, 12:12:24 PM
Tried in-game, Flan becomes quite fun to play and not OP, Komachi's ult become similar to Huskar's Life-break, 50% current hp dmg instead of instakill if hp below 50%, and actually there was no change to the amount of hp/str, everyone gets 18hp/str. lolwrong, I thought the changelog was hp/str, it's hp gained/lvl. Well, good thing it's not hp/str that was changed, Yuugi could have 10k hp if that applied

NOW THE BALANCE STARTS!!!

inb4 it takes 3 months for 977h to come out, thereby skipping December entirely.

Maybe it's because the devs are merging with imbadota devs :3
Something good will come out I guess
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: ApharmdB on November 23, 2011, 12:46:55 PM
The merger will only take place in v0.978 though. I'm guessing nobody really wants to look at a bug-ridden map and have the first task of the day be "fix them all". Fun fact: v0.977g2 is supposed to be the equivalent of say.. 0.967a.. in the development cycle, i.e. a map that's just ready for beta-testing.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Dr Rawr on November 25, 2011, 11:02:49 PM
Post 999 and this game doesnt seem to be getting better :V, pretty much same meta the whole time, buff system, scaling, and map changes didnt seem to do much. Only 5v5 seems to be the real game changer and maybe 100faith cap. And the items, those are all pretty dumb.
Title: Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
Post by: Helepolis on November 26, 2011, 12:06:20 AM
needs new thread, copy pasta