A Balanced Game of Mafia (Over; town wins)

[ActionDan]

EBWOP: None of that existed when Bard voted UK, I just thought voting UK for the reason he did was scummy, not a true prod, and more of a way to Mudsling!.  I have already presented his alternatives in a previous post. So my case on bard really had nothing to do with you Sect. Hourai probably misinterpreted #42 and #60 and that is why you are a point of contention between us.

[ActionDan]

From Bard to UK on HW:

Certainly, if it is something you can troll around (you'll forgive me for calling it trolling a little, right? It's kinda provocative) then it must be something you can share with the group.

From Dan to Bard on Dan:

Certainly, if it is something you can troll around (you'll forgive me for calling it trolling a little, right? It's kinda provocative) then it must be something you can share with the group.

[Polaris]

Kiro: I was [supposed to be] asking for clarification from Omba on whether or not I understood the post correctly, but what you're saying tells me that I did understand it correctly. I guess it was sort of odd because I myself would think that views on UK would be heavily affected by huhwhat's flip, so I guess it's just a matter of disagreeing instead of true scumminess. I'm willing to give Omba a clear based on this post, though, considering the question asked.

Regarding Dan:
Dan seems incredibly detached from the game for some reason. His posts seem to just consist of whatever's on his mind at the moment, which gives off the impression that he's not paying attention to the game. If I'm correct he has ignored or made throwaway comments on everything that does not immediately pertain to him, which just feels bad.

Regarding Dormio:
I don't see any waffling from my perspective, Kiro, but I admit that I didn't pressure him mainly because there were no points to pressure him on besides wanting to see more of his opinions (and that would make me feel like a hypocrite). At this point I think everyone can unanimously declare Dormio as Bad right now. It looks like he's unsure about Shadoweh after running out of things to say about her, but still keeps his vote on her nonetheless, and there were also lazy pokes at Kiro where I'm not sure what Dormio was actually trying to achieve.

Regarding Shadoweh (and huhwhat):
Shadoweh vs. huhwhat is at a standstill due to huhwhat not posting anything so they have both been pretty uninteresting for now. It looks like Shadoweh is taking some time to look at other people so I would like her to clarify who her top scum pick is besides huhwhat.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Why no mention of Omba in your #137 opinions about others when he happens to be voting you? Also, I'm frowning at your town meta read on Serela. Care to explain why you feel that way about him?

I was asked for opinions on people who weren't voting me. Omba was voting me.

The amount of buddying up to Shadoweh and UK on his part raises an eyebrow, especially when he made an entire post attacking a majority of Shadoweh's wagon, considering that she can certainly defend herself. If Shadoweh is town I could maybe see him being newbscum trying to buddy up to townies for points, and I could definitely imagine them as buddies too. So yeah, I don't like Omba very much.

I'm having trouble putting my meta read on Serela into words, honestly. It's something along the lines of me thinking that scum!Serela would be more cautious in his posting.

Okay, where did this sudden Dan wagon come from? Dan is suddenly kind of buddying up to Shadoweh as well, though not as blatantly as Omba. It seems kind of weird considering what he has said about her in the past. I still want to see him take more definite stances on  people other than Sect the easy target and Bardiche, particularly the more polarizing cases today (UK and myself). Not agreeing with the Bardiche case at all either, some of the points seem to be a bit of a stretch (esp. in #175). Shadoweh is still my top pick and my opinions on her haven't really changed since my last post, but I'll switch to Dan for Not Me Over Me reasons if necessary.

I kind of want to punch Dormio for the amount of stuttering and fence-sitting in #163. It makes him seem unsure of himself, and I would associate that kind of behavior with scum. I'd like to know why he's still voting against Shadoweh when a lot of his recent posts have been focusing in other directions, and even when he did post his case on Shadoweh, it seemed pretty lackluster to what he has on a lot of other people. Dormio, post explaining your priorities on your current suspicions.

I'd like to hear some new opinions from Bard on people other than Dan and Shadoweh, since he went roughly a page without posting.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

RE: Polly ninja

Clearing Omba over his question is pretty silly, considering that scum are willing to ask questions that make them seem ignorant in an attempt to gain townie points. I recall doing something like that in Zombie Apocalypse at one point, at least.

[Shadoweh]

Wow, that Dormio post sure is a thing! Those things being terribad and fucking awful. Did you seriously use "Because" as a reason? So those points you have stopped being useful about.. a day ago? If UK is your second prime suspect you can't just skip her posts. Like.. you did those other three people. I don't believe in lynching people to clear another person as town, not even myself, but I can get behind lynching someone for not having an opinion at all. It sure would be cool if you learned to get one.

Seconding NeoSerela's ice cubey fate.

Dan: I'm not a trap. ;-; But you still haven't actually answered what I've asked of you. Your points against Bard for letting me go suddenly for 'being chalk full of townie intent' can be applied just as easily against you. I'm glad you were touched and saw the light but I still have no idea how you got there in the first place.

Bard: The weddings back on! <3 I get angry at people for not saying how they feel about an argument, it doesn't mean I want them to ignore the rest of the game.

I would compare how I feel about other cases to huh what but seeing as he hasn't posted for long enough to deserve a prod ever since his defense started failing I'm not budging. Maybe if he stops laying low I'll think about being distracted off him. Oh hey cut by huh what. Your Serela read sadly won't matter long since he's REPLACING OUT >:C So it's nice that your opinions on me haven't changed in a day. I'd like you to look over the posts I've made since then and tell me how they make me worse then the other points on people that you've presented here. That said, this post actually does make me feel better about you, and I'm going to look over my other suspects and do the same.

Polaris: If I'm not staring holes into huh what it would be Dan for not making any sense or Dormio for being a complete derptard. I'd also have to look at UK and see if I want to get that war I never had. I don't like the idea of ignoring a wagon because the subject disappeared off the face of the planet. Now that huh what is back you can pretend to be interested and comment on him properly.

[ActionDan]

Shadow: as for the scummy--->scummier--->townish.  Yes this looks odd.  But each came from a different perspective.  I originally thought you looked bad because you thought that HH's stance on me held merit. I thought you looked scummier later when I considered the issue a little more from HH's PoV.  I thought perhaps you were intentionally approving a misguided town's case.  Then HH starts his "DAN LOVES SECT; HEAR ALL ABOUT IT YOU NON-BELIEVERS!" stuff all over again.  That's when I concluded that HH was out of his mind. In regards to this, do you think HH's case holds water? HH: do you still think your case holds? 

So how did you go to townish?  I actually don't have much of a reason to support a town!shadow over scum!shadow or vise-versa   

[ActionDan]

OOPS, I hit post!  :]
that ended on a funny note lol  :V
I'll continue in a second

[ActionDan]

So how did you go to townish?  I actually don't have much of a reason to support a town!shadow over scum!shadow or vise-versa.  BUT I think Bard is scum... and I have reason to believe HW is also.  I'm making a case for HW shortly.  with two people who look seriously scummy on your wagon, I had reason to believe you were a mislynch target.  Your posts up to now didn't seem scummy at all, more like a frustrated town, so I had little reason to doubt you.

Since I've answered a few of your questions and concerns, please answer a few of mine.  Why are you giving Bard a pass? Do you not find his vote hop strange?  You criticise me for changing my opinion for the better on you, and now think I'm the next scum after Huh What,  but you clearly find Bard's "OK shadow, you don't have tunnel vision :V, you fine, pretend I never voted for you" A-OK. Seriously, what's with that?

Final Note- about Dormio: I had labeled him as a town PR role.  Why? because he was active lurking while pointing out little observations (that made sense early on). However, I agree that at the moment he looks like he's not even trying (Bard feels the same way too right now).  Still I would like people (especially UK) to consider this possibility.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Dan: I consider this "possibility" the scummiest fucking thing you've said all game. Shame on you!

[UncertainJakutten]

EBWOP: That answer also means I'd like no one else to answer it or even acknowledge it. That was terrible.

[ActionDan]

Remember what I said about Polaris? That he looked like he could be a town PR, or if not, scum?  Well Dormio could be just that, scum.  I highly doubt that she's a VT in anycase.  There are a few differences between Dormio and Polaris.  Dormio doesn't seem to have a friend in the world, if he were scum, I'd imagine that someone by now would have said something.  However, Polaris seems to be receiving encouragement, even after his incredibly scummy first post.  It's true Dormio hasn't done more to defend his vote, but the Shadow wagon has come and gone by this point (especially with HW telegraphing his next move i.e. voting me).

So UK, all I want to say is to keep an open mind, except on Bard, clear scum.  In other news, what did you think of HW's last post? I'm sure you have got something to say on it.

[Polaris]

Dan - This post: First paragraph about Hourai seems like fencesitting because he never really declares Hourai as either town or scum (and ironically, he berates Sect for fencesitting afterwards). His thoughts towards Sect seem to end up towards "scum", but I don't quite follow his thought process in how he came to that conclusion.
Also, you seem to want to keep painting me as scummy without explaining your reasons, so you should do that. Along with that I'm patiently awaiting what you've promised to bring, including what you mean by "interesting posts" and your case on huhwhat.

huhwhat - quote:"Okay, where did this sudden Dan wagon come from?" Does this mean you're against the wagon? It seems like you're saying that Dan has been pretty bad so far, but then you go and say "Not Me Over Me" as the only reason you would switch from Shadoweh to Dan. Kind of waffly to me.

Shadoweh - After huhwhat bringing up Omba attacking people on your wagon, I realized that you haven't mentioned that at all. Do you have anything to say?

[UncertainJakutten]

I love how Dan is continuing to discuss things scum are more interested in discussing. If you are town, I really suggest you cease that line of reasoning regarding PRs. Because, you know, scum benefit from that a fuckalot more than town does. HW's latest post is absolutely uninteresting and does nothing to change my read of him. If I had something to comment on from it, I would have.

[Hanged Hourai]

HH: do you still think your case holds?

Indeed I do, no matter how much you try and drag my name through the mud and try to call me misguided or derpy.

As for your "case" on me, all that I can decipher from you is that you thought I was terrible and scummy for saying Sect was bad for prolonging RVS, how my case on you is a big "misrep" and then the rest is how other people interacted with me, not the other way around.

Polaris-
Please clarify for me who is your second scum pick and why.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Since apparently people hate me forever for going after two people.

I'm not sure if you skipped this or just missed it, but what really is your opinion of Kiro?

Kiro's done a few things that seem off, but doesn't seem scummy to me yet.

Now explain Shadoweh.

It's mostly because of the interactions with Sect earlier in the day.
I don't get why people like to forget about things like that, but whatever.
##Unvote

If UK is your second prime suspect you can't just skip her posts. Like.. you did those other three people.

Uh... what is there to make of UK's post and Omba saying "going to sleep now".
And who were the other two people I ignored?

I guess at this point UK > Shadoweh in terms of scummy-ness because Shadoweh hasn't done anything terrible recently.
##Vote Uncertain Kitten

Anyway.
I don't really like either of the current wagons.

ActionDan is reading town to me because I don't really understand the case on him right now. Will reread.

And huh what's looks town to me because the only case on him was built around him being defensive over Uncertain Kitten's attack on him.

I don't have anything to add to my UK case right now.
I'll be back in a few hours hopefully to post again.

Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
orz
As UK says, Dan seems interested in seeing who the PR are?
Anyway, more in a couple hours.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:/

[UncertainJakutten]

Wrong answer Dormio

##Unvote, Vote Dormio

First, link me the post with your case on Shadoweh. Second, your case on me will now be defeated!

UK wrote around 10:32 PM last night:
1) Are you seriously saying I have a town read on someone based on being scum? That doesn't even deserve a response.
2) I said nope not answering about my meta and placing a vote. And yes, that was anti town. And?
3)chenwhat.jpg
4) Misrep. I wouldn't mind a Sect or Hourai lynch, and I also was initially for an Omba lynch but he's improved. Please to be reading, sir.

So, basically, your case is I defend people I think is town. Fucking amazing, guy.

The points correspond to your initial post with links on me.

[UncertainJakutten]

EBWOP: Sorry, point three should be

3)

[Hanged Hourai]

Urgh, Dormio, you are missing the point of my questions.

What makes him not perfect? What's wrong about him?

Kiro's done a few things that seem off, but doesn't seem scummy to me yet.

What are these things that make him seem off to you?

Also, Dan, if you think Sect is derpscum, why do you seem so intent on using my post saying he's bad for prolonging RVS as a point in your case on me?

[ActionDan]

UK: Fine, Fine, I get it. I'll shut-up about PRs, It's mostly speculation anyway.  Also let me ask you what I asked Shadow:  What do you think of Bard's vote hop off her wagon and onto mine? He has yet to give an explanation. 

Polaris: painting you as scummy? Look at your first post!

Aaah, and I was going to try to be unforgettable this game?but I wanted to run some ideas through K4U first, and even after that my thoughts are refusing to form coherent sentences to write my post with.

I just don't like Dan right now. It feels like he's just tunneling on Bard at the moment, and not responding to Bard's counters doesn't really help. He seems to be forcing his opinions on everyone else without really letting them think on their own, and basically declaring his own interpretation as fact (or something like that). ##Vote: ActionDan If you would, Dan, please answer Bard (post linked above) and tell us why you think the dumb ED1 argument was a scumslip.

You accuse me of tunneling on Bard and not responding to "counters" yet at the same time all you did was post about me. Isn't this hypocritical? I didn't force anything on anybody.  You are free to agree or disagree.  Why don't you make a case on me, instead of "painting me scummy".

cut-cut-cut-cut-cut

[UncertainJakutten]

I think it's Bard being Bard. Bard is probably not getting lynched today. With some flips, his "vote hop" may be more important. I don't see it as anything right now. And PR speculation is a terrible thing. You shouldn't do it.

[ActionDan]

HH: I no longer think Sect is derpscum, I think he voted me due to a misunderstanding (pending his reply), but I always thought (and still do) that you HH were scummy.   

Your question to me reads: "If you thought Sect was scum, why'd you go and point out that I really had no case against him?"  BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T
Should I have instead embraced your crap case, to attack Sect? If you thought that I labeled Sect as  derpscum, why did you give out a case against me that proclaimed, for all the world to hear, that I had been actively defending Sect?

I have come to realize that your points are absolutely, and beyond a doubt, utterly unsupportable.
##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai
By God, do I have FPMH!

[Shadoweh]

Dan: I didn't agree exactly with the points Hourai was making on you. I said earlier that it seemed more to me like you were mentioning people linked to Sect as if he were already obvscum. But looking back, it does seem like you disliked serious cases on him at first, then changed your mind. I've accepted your reasons for changing your mind on him but don't like that you presented them afterwards. My reasoning for disliking you isn't related to Hourai's case. Your answer to my question is noted but highly suspicious. At this point I'm not going to believe you when you say you're making a huh what case until you actually make one.
To semi-answer your question about Bard, I'm not actually going to answer what I think of him right now beyond that I don't think he's worth pursuing today. If it comes up suddenly as a pressing point I might address it. I don't think you'll be able to move enough opinion his way to make it an issue.

And seriously, keep power speculation on the inside. I do not want to call you Capt.Dan.

UncertainKittan: Please come out and present the re-reads of other players you said you would do earlier, we need opinions to hold you by. Your updated opinions on Dan, Dormio and huh what are appreciated. Do you think Kiro is wrong for pressuring you into looking at other options? I sense claws out waiting to pounce but I'm not psychic. Tell me your thoughts! 

Warning - while you were typing 10 ne(ry
Why ;-;

Polaris: If you mean post #148 I don't see anything wrong with it. It's more questions for the people on it then attacks. Compare to Dan's reaction where it was a reason to go to war.

Dormio: The three would be Omba, Kiro, and My inability to count. Other then that, your post is totally convincing and I have seen the light!

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

That was horrible. You aren't even going to try and justify why you ignored everything I've done since ED1? Since you still sound like you think I'm scum this isn't good enough. What has UK done lately compared to what Shadoweh has done lately to convince you that Shadoweh is still scummy but UK is worse? A case, with post links, and maybe even realizing how WRONG you are and going after someone that stands a chance of being lynched today would be great.

Dan: SO HOW ABOUT THAT HUH WHAT CASE?!

[Shadoweh]

EBWOM: @mod about rule 4, do we need to reach the majority of 7 or just a clear majority on someone to lynch?

[ActionDan]

@edible, could you post a votecount?

Before I post anything more, I'm gonna cool,
At this point,
I'm willing to lynch Bard, HH, or HW.

My reasons for HW are actually pretty simple.  His first post voting shadow for going after HH, his telegraphing his votes before placing them gives off the impression that if questioned, he can say something like "but I said I would vote this person, see?".  He has generally handwavy stances against everyone besides shadow. He bandwaggoned shadow with bard to L-2.  Now he's wondering why I have a wagon even though earlier he said he was up for a Dan lynch.  His buddying arguements with Omba are WIFOM. 
cut-cut

[Hanged Hourai]

Your question to me reads: "If you thought Sect was scum, why'd you go and point out that I really had no case against him?"

No, my question is, "If you think Sect is scum, why use my ED1 comment on him as a point on my case?"

Should I have instead embraced your crap case, to attack Sect? If you thought that I labeled Sect as  derpscum, why did you give out a case against me that proclaimed, for all the world to hear, that I had been actively defending Sect?

Except you blatantly did call him derpscum.

Later you admit the "ActionDan" situation boggles you. To me you look like  :derp:scum.

If I'm understanding this right, to answer the question, I made the case of you defending him before you said he was derpscum. Your point is moot.
Can you direct me to the point where you change your opinion of Sect being derpscum to being a misunderstanding?

[Edible]

Votecount

Shadoweh (1) - huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - NeoSerela, Dormio
huh what (1) - Omba
Action Dan (4) - Hanged Hourai, Polaris, Sect, Bardiche
Dormio (3) - Kiro, UncertainKitten, Shadoweh
Hanged Hourai (1) - Action Dan

Not voting:

~14.5 hours remain in the Day.  With 12 alive, 7 are required to lynch.

[Polaris]

In response to Hourai, Dormio is my second scumpick because of his lack of conviction on the Shadoweh vote and ending up switching to UK only because everyone poked him about it. His case on UK basically seems to stem from him being lazy and choosing one of huhwhat or UK instead of actual scumhunting.

In response to Shadoweh, to me it seemed like it [Omba's post] was defending you, so I expected some kind of comment from you in response to that. Since your interpretation of it is different I can't fault you for it, I guess.

I would obviously prefer lynching Dan over Dormio, but the latter is fine too.

[ActionDan]

HH: I thought Sect was  :derp: scum after his 3rd to last post.  After his last post, I cleared him.

I'm assuming what you call "my case" is my post #143.  (this post was way before I called Sect derp scum)

At that point, I had no idea as to Sect's alignment.   I was using your RVS post to say that you were scummy.  You interpreted that as a defense of Sect.  then you ask me this recently,

Also, Dan, if you think Sect is derpscum, why do you seem so intent on using my post saying he's bad for prolonging RVS as a point in your case on me?

I respond:

Should I have instead embraced your crap case, to attack Sect? If you thought that I labeled Sect as  derpscum, why did you give out a case against me that proclaimed, for all the world to hear, that I had been actively defending Sect?

you respond

Except you blatantly did call him derpscum.

That was WAY WAY after post #143 a.k.a the case I made against you. You made the case against me where you declare that I defended Sect RIGHT AFTER I made the case against you.
YET, you have this to say

If I'm understanding this right, to answer the question, I made the case of you defending him before you said he was derpscum. Your point is moot.

CORRECT!  So how does that make the case against you come AFTER I call Sect derpscum? TIME PARADOX!

[ActionDan]

Just so my last post didn't get missed.  HH clearly slipped up here, If this is not a scum slip,  I don't know what is.