A Balanced Game of Mafia (Over; town wins)

[ActionDan]

Well Tidelliwinks!!!  :]  This sure is fun!

I have some opinions (some more strong than others).  The only thing I'll give away is that my vote is staying.  UK says bard "fxed it", I say otherwise.
It would be tactical of me to shut my trap for now and I think this would also help out another player also (EUHHWAHH! speculate that *****s!)

I would like HH and Kiro to defend/change their vote AND I want to bomb the foxholes of the remaining lurkers  :getdown: THIS IS WAR! STOP BEING COWARDS SISSIES!!

This will be my last post for a while unless someone really presses me, but there is FAR FAR more on this table than small potatoes!

OVER AND OUT~~buzz

[Sect]

UK: Dunno why HW's post was bad: Shadoweh asked for an opinion that she didn't say anything about herself, and a gut feeling vote doesn't seem like a terrible thing on Day 1, especially less than six hours into the game.

At the very least, he actually gave reasons why he's voting for her.

Action: Slow down, tiger. It hasn't even been six hours, and there's more than sixty hours left.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Okay, that's enough.

##Unvote
##Vote UncertainKitten

Shouldn't you be actively scumhunting instead of throwing out votes on people and hoping they give you reasons to vote for them by tripping up later? Because what you just tried to do is not a townie approach to finding scum. It's way too easy for a scum to say "hey, I'm scumhunting!" while taking your recent course of action but instead tripping up weaker townies and netting mislynches. This is more worthy of a vote than Shadoweh is (though my case on her was just an ED1 push anyway, I'm willing to drop it completely if I think she's improved after we get into more srs discussion).

@Bardiche: Hourai and I are scum together. Our buddy is Edible. Seriously though, how do you expect me to answer this?

@Shadoweh: If you're asking for my opinions, then Dan is silly but not scummy, as I already said. I didn't say anything about the other two because Bard was tutoring which is not worth looking into since he's not speaking as a player and UK's only notable post was already covered by Bard when he voted for her. My gut was not my primary reason for voting you and I really only included that sentence as a joke, sooo.

[UncertainJakutten]

@HW: Hey, how unexpected, you voting me because I caught you as scum. Way to willfully misunderstand what I said. What I meant was you're going to continually make it manifestly obvious you're scum, and you have failed to disappoint~

I have a case on you, actually. It's all cute and written up and everything. I just see no need to post it since you're squirming so well yourself.

Continue to flail, please~

[Shadoweh]

I have no idea what to make of that post. More weirdness then cuteness. But it's off to work, bring me more opinions for when I get home!

Cut by Sect: My opinion of it is both types of UK would clear a newbie if they were acting town. I don't feel like she's stomping discussion into the ground like last time and her opinions satisfy me for now. Bard is being.. Bard. Dan is bouncing off the walls with enthusiasm. You should pick up some of it and take it to a case against someone.

Stop cutting meeee the rest of you get to wait till I get home damnit!

[Edible]

Votecount: Brought to you by Mountain Dew Throwback - "Ya-hooo!  It's made with REAL sugar!"

Bardiche (1) - Action Dan
Sect (2) - Hanged Hourai, Kiro
Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
UncertainKitten (2) - Bardiche, huh what
Hanged Hourai (1) - Shadoweh
huh what (1) - UncertainKitten

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@ UK:  How are you going to convince others to vote this apparent scum!me if you're not going to post an actual case, then? I'm expecting a response like "they'll figure it out because it's obvious derp derp", but what about people like Sect, who have openly stated that he doesn't understand your vote? Your convictions are worth nothing for town if you're not going to convince other people you're right and get scum lynched, so withholding a case on who you believe to be scum is being selfish and anti-town. But that obviously doesn't matter to you if you know that your target is town anyway, so hey. Seems like you're playing scum to me.

Also, my vote on you has nothing to do how your vote is currently on me, it's because of how you went about it. I would still be voting you over Shadoweh if you were attacking, say, Polly or Dan or my BFF Hourai.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Unless you're town trying to play into Shoe meta, in which case I think it would be obvious to you that I'm not scum at this point barring tunnel vision on your part, but whatever.

[UncertainJakutten]

Perhaps I'm looking for something outside of you, HW. You seem overly concerned about my vote if no one's going to understand it, though. You're nervous.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I'm not nervous, but if you want to interpret my posts like that, then there's not really much I can do about it.

I'm focusing on your vote because I believe the way you've went about it is scummy (as I've explained), and therefore my case and vote on you revolve around it. I don't see how that makes me overly concerned about it in a defensive manner like you are implying.

[Bardiche]

You are attacking her because she refused to explain her meta vote on the Mod and self-diagnoses it as anti-town behavior.

And you're attacking me on the basis that there was something better at the time or that it was a bad action. It's a lose-lose scenario you present: either I contributed to jokevote phase, voted you, or did nothing.

None of those alternatives really come to equal standing with a vote on UK; explaining why she favours acting according to a certain meta is certainly more interesting than voting someone for joking, or voting you for asking a question!

Your case hinges on that I did something bad; but you must argument why it is A Bad Thing, rather than look at an isolated action and ignore the context.

Now then, unless there is an alternative I did not present, what is objectively wrong with my conduct at the start of this game?

[Bardiche]

As for the Huh What x UK fanfics writing themselves here... I'm more hesitant now to give UK a pass based on "it's UK"; the aggressive style where UK declares someone scum but refuses to further explain this point is not damning on its own given it is pretty much UK, but I am curious about this case you've written up based on Huh What's solely singular post in this game where he voted Shadoweh.

Certainly, if it is something you can troll around (you'll forgive me for calling it trolling a little, right? It's kinda provocative) then it must be something you can share with the group.


Huh What, I kinda meant, "Your attack reeks of a chainsaw of Hourai, given the attack on Shadoweh seems founded in 'What Hourai did is not scummy', rather than a construction of why Shadoweh's reasoning is faulty".

[Kiro]

I don't understand Shadoweh's #46 at all. How are you determining that Hourai is ignoring the Dan/Bard conversation at the time when he simply may not be checking the thread at all? Feels like a bit of a reach for something that doesn't look like RVS.

Thus, I have no issue with HW's vote on Shadoweh and don't understand why UK thinks HW is flailing. Although I think the vote change from Shadoweh onto UK now seems a bit weird. Don't agree with his view on UK currently because I know she can play like this as Town.

HW: My vote on Sect was RVS, but halfway to serious. Mucking around with something like, "will Edible count this vote on Roukan" felt weird to me. It's a time-waster statement. This is not a bastard mod game, there will be no shenanigans with players not in the player list. Impression of him hasn't changed since.

Dan: I hate it when people tell me to change my vote without giving any reason to. My current impression of you is newbie excitable Town, but seriously, cut all the noise/static out of your posts. The more gibberish you put out, the more I'm going to doubt my read on you.

Shadoweh: I don't feel like you're contributing right now. #64 definitely feels noncommittal and close to IIoA while you stick on your point with Hourai which doesn't make sense to me.

##Unvote Sect
##Vote Shadoweh

[UncertainJakutten]

@Kiro: That's one of the reasons I found him flailing. His vote switch was weird and felt more to discredit and less to hunt scum. Wouldn't have worried about it except for the prior posts badness. Still waiting for the rest of everyone to show up. Your Shadoweh vote is kind of bad, but you wouldn't know why. Read prior games with her as town. This is a fairly normal start. If it keeps up though, I'll be more amenable to your point of view.

@Bard:

[ActionDan]

Wanna say a couple of quick things while waiting for other ppl.  Mafia is a fun Game.  Perhaps stressful for some, but definitely fun (why would you guys bother playing otherwise?). But honestly, you guys can be such hard***es at times.  I think I'm pretty damn clear and straight forward. Kiro, do you hate ppl prodding you? so what about the Prod that HW gave you? except you answered the call! btw small point- I asked you to defend or change your vote. more later

[Sect]

The difference was tact, Action: you were rather abrupt and forceful about getting Kiro and HH to explain or change their votes on me, while HW simply asked.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I have had less than four hours of sleep and spent somewhere around 10 hours straight working on an assignment yesterday.
This will be fun. Anyway.

Action Dan's #60 strikes me as odd.
I mean, he states that he is both withholding information from town and that he is not going to say anything until pressured for a while.
That and he also pulled a WIFOM and admitted doing as much in response to Bardiche's questioning over his WIFOM earlier.

Shadoweh is reading a bit weirdly to me right now.
In addition to what Kiro said about her #46 and #64, her #58 basically handwaves huh what's argument against her.
What kind of response is "I'm sure if you look hard enough even you can find a comment to make on it." anyway?
That, and Keine is the superior mafia player.

Tired. Don't want to go to uni. Gddmn Assignments. All hail breaks.
I'll try to make another post when I have lunch or something.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Sleep deprivation is awesome.

[ActionDan]

Sect: I feel I'm being misreped here. apparently my sense of funny doesn't click with everyone else.

Some more stuff: Man I wrote this, but didnt post it earlier T_T. I agree that shadow has mostly fluff posts, and I was suspicious of her vote on Hourai mainly because I thought she was catering to me (I was waiting on someone to pick up on this but w/e).  However HW accused her of questioning Hourai on me/bard/UK while not providing much herself. This is fine and good.  But he doesn't rly tackle this issue either T_T.  Anyway I am still focused on Bard.  I still have no idea why UK's meta and what she has to say about it are more interesting to you than UK saying I'm town. What rly boggles my mind is why not one person has said anything of substance regarding our convo.  I am still assuming UK saying it for later.  Does everyone think its just some dumb ED1 arguement?  Because I beg to differ. I think it was a scumslip.

cut by Dormio, give me a sec

[ActionDan]

Action Dan's #60 strikes me as odd.
I mean, he states that he is both withholding information from town and that he is not going to say anything until pressured for a while.
That and he also pulled a WIFOM and admitted doing as much in response to Bardiche's questioning over his WIFOM earlier.

the WIFOM in question here is in post #35 according to bard (it took me until #45 to realize this).  The WIFOM within my #45 you are refering to is this  "it's hard for me to think like scum!me (although I realize this is in itself a WIFOM)."  If you are being critical of that... well... that's a bit too critical.

Otherwise your post is pretty much summing up the HW/shadow thing. I beg you to look at the dan/bard thing Instead!

[Hanged Hourai]

Boop

Ok, I fail to see how I became scummy for telling Sect he's bad for prolonging RVS, and thus, putting off hunting. Can someone who said I was scummy explain why I was scummy?

Dan-
Really, really, really loves Sect.  Not to mention how he blantantly tells the people voting him to either get off or defend themselves.
#43 says the "Sect scene" was "worthless" and then grills me for being on him. Either you're contradicting yourself, or you just don't want people attacking him.
He says how I made "ill motives" for Sect, when I was telling what he did and why it was bad.

I don't like how people write him off as overeager, new scum can be eager too.

Shadoweh-
Cool, vote on me. You tell Sect to try harder, but you vote me for "attacking newbies." He's played before. And then you proceed to question me on a conversation that didn't really exist without you saying anything on it, or even on the people involved in it. Why does Sect get a pass on it? And no, I'm not going to address it because I don't really see much to learn from it. You haven't actually made a case on anyone else since you voted me, and that gives me the feeling that you wanted to wait for me to say something so you could start actually attacking me.

Sect-
Your name shows up a lot in this post. You haven't done anything to make me change my opinion of you. Can you make a case?

UK- So are you ever going to actually address the case you said you had? I would prefer a yes or no over cool/troll faces.

##Unvote
##Vote: Action Dan
Uber defending someone who doesn't really deserve defending earns him my vote.

Also, I don't care if it's in jest, don't buddy with me.

[Shadoweh]

This entire exchange of votes is giving me headaches. It's like a bunch of monkeys with chainsaws chasing each other in circles. I've been trying to decide which bothers me more, huh what jumping in to defend Hourai's vote choice or UK immediately blazing in to my defense, followed by a blatant huh what OMGUS, followed by Kiro jumping to both Hourai AND huh what's defense. What annoys me the most is none of these people are named Hanged Hourai.

huh what: So now that Bard isn't tutoring what do you think about him? How about Kiro, does he make a case against me more/less palpable? Answering a question with an obvious joke doesn't help us actually get an opinion from you beyond 'UK is scum because she's voting me.' Your case against UK is hilariously bad. If she's not trying to convince people you're scum, why are you worried other people will come to the conclusion you are on their own? If you're town, then act like it.

UK: The sentiment is appreciated, but I don't think I need someone to tell people how townie I am. I have no vig shot to look scum with this game.

Kiro: That's nice. I plan to determine Hourai's motives and opinions by hearing them from Hourai, not someone named huh what or Kiro. I don't need you to tell me what I should think of it, you're not the one my vote is on. Hourai is a big crimson doll helper, he doesn't need bodyguards.

Dan: I don't get what you mean by catering. I'm not interested in my own opinions, I already know I'm town. 'You didn't answer first' isn't a valid excuse to avoid answering a question in the same post. If you have something you want me to answer you'll have to ask me yourself. You'll have to forgive us for not trusting you at your word to be straightforward, just build cases and don't think about it too hard. The proof is in your actions and intent.

Sect: There are these things we have, called votes. We use them to say who we think is scum! Seriously, I don't care who, pick someone and lay waste.

People I forgot were playing: NeoSerela, Omba, Polaris

Cut by HH: Out of words! Like post. Hate huh what.

##Unvote
##Vote: huh what

[Omba]

UK: What I guess you're trying to do is working, but you'll have to explain your reasoning later on and obviously with enough time of the day left to discuss it.

ActionDan: Still pursuing Bardiche over that seems rather pointless to me. Unless you've got some new ideas about it, in which case it would be nice if you shared them with us. Also derp.

huh what: Either someone makes a mistake on their own, or you'll have to lend them a hand. And making a mistake does not mean you're scum, it's how you go about making it and for what reasons. So implying she's trying to get mislynches this way seems at least strange to me when this method can go both ways, only depending on whether she's scum or not.
Apart from that, you're jumping on her because she jumped on you because you jumped on someone else who previously also jumped on someone else.
What irks me is that out of those four, you're the one acting by far the most defensive.

##Unvote
##Vote: huh what

cut by Shadoweh

I would have said I'm waiting for more input from you, but that post cleared up the slight suspicions I had about you for now.

[Omba]

Blargh bold.

##Unvote
##Vote: huh what

[Sect]

I really don't like this trap that UK's set up, the one that most everyone probably sees, because I can't really get a good read on her about it. The case that UK has on HW didn't exist when she voted him: there really isn't anything damning that I see about his vote on Shadoweh. All she was trying to do is draw attention, and vote whoever responded that seemed the weakest. Luckily for her, HW played into her hands by being defensive.

Still, it's a trap that doesn't really say anything about the person laying it: if UK's town, then she's doing a pretty good job alienating herself, and if she's scum, well, she's scum.

So, a question for UK: why HW? There's already a small posse forming on him, thanks to you, so you might as well share with the class.

-cut cut cut-

Oh hi everyone!

[Shadoweh]

More words! I forgot to add this:

What rly boggles my mind is why not one person has said anything of substance regarding our convo.  I am still assuming UK saying it for later. Does everyone think its just some dumb ED1 arguement?

Yes. 

Cool, vote on me. You tell Sect to try harder, but you vote me for "attacking newbies." He's played before.

Sect has played once and dropped out before the end of Day 1. Are you calling this experience? If you thought he wasn't a newbie then my argument against you is dropped completely, but really. I'm always willing to give newer players a chance to prove themselves, though the longer they stay without a vote the less I feel that way.

Cut by Sect not voting anyone.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sect

So who do you think is scum?! You sound like you think UK is scum, so why aren't you VOTING FOR HER? If you don't think she's scum, who is? Vote for them! Vote SOMEONE!

[Hanged Hourai]

I am aware of his past experience. If anyone did the same thing, I would have done what I did, regardless of experience.
Also, why did he get a pass on getting asked about the "dumb" ED1 argument?

[Polaris]

Aaah, and I was going to try to be unforgettable this game?but I wanted to run some ideas through K4U first, and even after that my thoughts are refusing to form coherent sentences to write my post with.

I just don't like Dan right now. It feels like he's just tunneling on Bard at the moment, and not responding to Bard's counters doesn't really help. He seems to be forcing his opinions on everyone else without really letting them think on their own, and basically declaring his own interpretation as fact (or something like that). ##Vote: ActionDan If you would, Dan, please answer Bard (post linked above) and tell us why you think the dumb ED1 argument was a scumslip.

[Shadoweh]

I am aware of his past experience. If anyone did the same thing, I would have done what I did, regardless of experience. Also, why did he get a pass on getting asked about the "dumb" ED1 argument?

Fair enough. I find a lack of a vote more of a problem then a lack of opinion. There's no point in asking what he thinks of something if I can't even tell what direction he's looking yet.

[Hanged Hourai]

I'm having a hard time understanding why he got his pass in #46. His lack of opinion made him excluded from hunting?

At that point, all I had was saying he's bad for prolonging RVS. All he had was prolonging RVS.
Neither of us had acknowledged the ED1 argument .

I'm not seeing how he got the pass.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

People who are passing off my reasons for voting UK as simply being "she jumped on me" and/or calling it an OMGUS need to start actually reading my posts. I'm not sure where Shadoweh has seen me worry that other people will come to the conclusion I'm scum on their own, so I assume she either didn't fully grasp something I said or is misrepping me. Her entire case is pretty horrible from what she's said about me considering that it barely explains what was wrong about my case on UK and really makes me think that she hasn't read anything I've said so far at all.

I find it amusing how fast Shadoweh's willing to drop her case on me just to pressurevote Sect, though. Her eagerness to drop her current case for one on an active lurker reminds me of my switch to Hourai in Zombie Mafiers, as it shows that she's prioritizing her cases awkwardly which seems like something a scum who knows everybody's alignments would do (I've done that a lot myself, sooo). Not to mention that Sect basically did this exact same thing as town in his first game. Still think she's trying too hard to seem town. Like, even harder than usual.

To answer her questions, I don't have any particular opinions on Bard and Kiro beyond "they seem reasonable enough to me", which they do. Not sure what is expected here, I'm not going to start filling my posts up with one-liners on every single player if there's nothing interesting I have to say about them.

Kiro does have a point that UK could probably do this as town, but ugh, that doesn't make it any more satisfying to me. I might switch back to Shadoweh if UK's thought process revolving me reads as townie enough when she actually posts it, but for now I'd like to keep the vote down to give her some motivation, since I've honestly been wondering if her statement that she had a case on me was a bluff. People should stop trolling as town, it messes with my scumdar (hi Bard and PX from last game).