Darker than Black Mafia (Game Over Scum win)

[UncertainJakutten]

Actually, the hypocrisy I'm more referring to is the whole "SCHEZO WANTED CAPT. H DEAD! NEVERMIND THAT I WAS THE ONE THAT REALLY GOT THAT WAGON GOING!" At any rate, if you are finding something scummy, then as town, you shouldn't be doing it, right? Because after all, you are a town intended person, and something a scum intended person would do shouldn't even be in your list of actions. So therefore, if your cases seem to be the pot calling the kettle black, I think you might be scum knowing what scum intended people do, or trying to fake it.

As for the change, just because they aren't lurking NOW, Hele, doesn't mean they weren't lurking before. Serela was on my list of lurkers, and had already come out pretty badly with his not following my directions at all post. Yonowaaru was worse about following it and providing less opinions, but I have high hopes for HW to either reveal he's scum or reveal he's town. I'll admit part of my vote for Yono was frustration at the utter uselessness of his player slot. Granted, the "opinions" he gave were far from town so...

Also Serela's latest post is 10 kinds of terrible. So, a confluence of factors...or maybe Fate?

Finally, the five lines thing was more a fond hope, honestly. Though Serela was the most egregious abuser.

So, tl;dr, they both can hang, I find HW to be more useful as either alignment but if he proves scum in his posting, then I'm willing to switch back to him. Oh, also, hypocrisy has scum intent behind it, see above article for details!

[Schezo]

Ok then.

Dormio: I found myself liking him earlier when he said stuff and didn't ramble about nothing like he has been doing recently. Though that point on Conqueror seems to be one that rings true. That's twice he's ran off after saying stuff about select people then promising more about others and just getting away with it. Please post about the others Conqueror.

It would have been cool for Bard to confirm answer my questions. :< I think he skirted around the Shadoweh ones and maybe answered the Zakeri one but I would like to know why he's cleared please unless "he makes good sense" is all it's based off of, in which case, ok.

NeoSerela: I feel just fine about my vote being on him today when his latest post is just a bunch of babbling with fluff thrown in for good measure. If the capt. H case wasn't hugely exciting, why did you stay on it instead of persuing another, more exciting one?  I mean that just reads as a go with the flow attitude that scum have no problem using and as he keeps explaining his actions, they keep seeming to contradict each other. From earlier he said that capt h would be an easy target for scum, yet in his recent post, "he ~was~ antitown so that's why he wanted to lynch him" instead of doing other things like he keeps claiming he wanted to do yesterday.

(why you all have to cut me when I'm on mah phone? ;-;)

[Helepolis]

Yonowaaru was worse about following it and providing less opinions, but I have high hopes for HW to either reveal he's scum or reveal he's town. I'll admit part of my vote for Yono was frustration at the utter uselessness of his player slot.

* Helepolis stares at UncertainKitten with questionable eyes and shakes his head gently.

High hopes for a new player, who is replacing the player who was until now the worst? What kind of nonsense is that? The guy did not even spoke yet and you are already neutral-ing him? Mainly because Yono was a terrible player, we know little about him. Those useless reports several people gave about him were absolutely telling nothing.

[UncertainJakutten]

HW actually plays mafia. He's worth keeping around, at least long enough to say something.

I'm...not sure what your point is at this point Hele?

[Helepolis]

I'm...not sure what your point is at this point Hele?

Point is, until he starts posting, he is just in my eyes Yonowaaru v2.

[UncertainJakutten]

All right. Feel free to feel that way~. I can't really fault you for it. I just get attached to some players ;.

[Conqueror]

Oh you guys.  I'd love to be able to draw up insta-rereads on people, but until I suddenly gain Super Scumhunting Powers (TM), that's not going to happen. Regardless, let's continue with the second installment. This time we'll be looking at 4 more players! The other 3 will have to wait for a few more hours.

************************Happy Happy List Time Part Two************************

Speaking of lurkers, where's Hanged Hourai again? I thought he was pretty bad at first from memory, but the posts themselves seem...ok. The downside is that they're mostly full of clarification questions and one-liners about alignment. Okay, so he doesn't look so good after all. Looking at his votes, he kept a vote parked on Helepolis for most of the day, and later promised a switch to either Dormio or capt. h for unknown reasons (and he ended up not moving the vote anyways). Low presence is not an indication of scumminess in itself, but at the same time, I'm not sure at all who Hourai thinks is scum, which is bad. Hey Hourai, who do you think is scum and why?

Dormio posts way too much, how the hell am I supposed to read all this. Hmm, currently has a D2 vote on Zakeri based on Zakeri tunneling on UK, but this is now partially invalid seeing as Zakeri came in and made a case on Schezo. I'm a bit confused, is your vote on Zakeri basically based on his ninja hammer now? I'm not sure at all who else you want to vote for - you waffle way too much. So, same question I asked Hourai goes to you: who do you think is scum and why? Also, lol at Dormio calling me out for delayed posting when you do pretty much the same thing (it's not like the rest of us don't have RL stuff either).

rdj is questionable. Scratch that, I got nothing on rdj. His votes are questionable from a wagon analysis point of view, but the reasons for the votes seem reasonably clear. PXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!

Helepolis - That's weird. Even though I got a town feel from him earlier, I realized he hasn't really done anything today. You said this: "I will also support the plan of coming down on Lurkers hard. So I am curious if our precious Lurkers are going to show up or not. Depending on that, I will place my vote." But you've done nothing of the sort. It looks like you're sitting back and waiting for the cases to come to you, despite making no effort to draw out those cases. The lurkers, for the most part, have come in and had their say - what do you think about them now?

tl;dr version: Helepolis, Hourai, and Dormio are all suspicious because I don't know where they stand on issues. rdj looks good for now.
Ordered listing: Hourai > Helepolis > Dormio >>>>>rdj.

@Bard Re: Why am I doing reads on certain people first - Because arguing with you, UK, and/or Zakeri is going to be painful and/or time-consuming and I am not really looking forward to it. >_> I'll get to you three by the end of the day though.

Catchup: Serela's new post lumps everybody else together as town. >_> Schezo's latest post is better than Serela's. Happy with my vote where it is right now - none of the four mentioned above are worse than Serela atm.

[Bardiche]

Conq, that's like saying you're going for the easy targets.

[UncertainJakutten]

Oh! Hele! I have an idea! I'm a bit busy but if you have some free time do some vote count analysis with the flips we have regarding capt. h.'s and Zak's wagons. For the purpose of this exercise, assume Zak is town, though feel free to post one where you assume he's scum as well. I'm curious to see what you come up with.

[Conqueror]

@Bard: If you're going to twist it that way, sure.  :wat: But I've stated that's not my intention, so...anyway, wait a few more hours for my next post.

[Bardiche]

It's just that I am much more interested in who you think are scum. You've so far gone out of your way to discredit just about everyone in the game except for UK, Zak and I, stating you've only neglected doing so because we are "tough to deal with"... in other words, you think we're scummy as well.

So who, concretely, are not scummy to you? "everyone's scum!" is cools, but until you get a role that lets you kill everyone at once, it's not a helpful stance to take.

[Conqueror]

Scumminess is a continuum - townies can do scummy things, but scum will always somehow lurch ahead. The people I think are most likely to be scum are Serela, Hourai, Schezo, and possibly you or Zakeri pending a reread. By process of elimination, if I were to pick not scum, I'd choose me, PX, Dormio, Helepolis, UK, huh what, and possibly you or Zakeri pending a reread.

But see, just saying this is fairly useless. Do you really want me to make a detailed post on why I think certain people are more likely to be town than others?

Also, Bardiche, who do you think is scum? You haven't really done anything after claiming except plopping a vote down on Schezo for being lurky. When half the players are lurky.

[Bardiche]

I haven't done much because as I asserted, I can currently follow the trains of thought of nearly all active players in who they find scummy and why, and find the way their votes went to who they did to be like a mathematical equation flowing from cause to effect.

Since Schezo has always been lurking hard when he was scum with me, I determine this as a scum trait in his playstyle; he was not previously so, and I dread to think he believes himself to be putting up a good fa?ade of town as is.

The other lurkers dropped and let themselves be replaced.

[Helepolis]

Oh! Hele! I have an idea! I'm a bit busy but if you have some free time do some vote count analysis with the flips we have regarding capt. h.'s and Zak's wagons. For the purpose of this exercise, assume Zak is town, though feel free to post one where you assume he's scum as well. I'm curious to see what you come up with.

You were spying again from the balcony in my room again, weren't you? No wonder Patchouli-sama is often angry at Miss Meiling.

[Bardiche]

Also Conq, no. But I want to know who of the people you listed as having scummy traits come off as town to you despite their scummy traits.

[Conqueror]

I haven't done much because as I asserted, I can currently follow the trains of thought of nearly all active players in who they find scummy and why, and find the way their votes went to who they did to be like a mathematical equation flowing from cause to effect.

Since Schezo has always been lurking hard when he was scum with me, I determine this as a scum trait in his playstyle; he was not previously so, and I dread to think he believes himself to be putting up a good fa?ade of town as is.

By that logic, I could just take it easy all game and say, "I understand where everybody is coming from." Scum can understand townie processes too - I want to be able to see your thought process. I do agree somewhat with the point on Schezo, but meta doesn't really work that well for a player who's been continuously scum.

I guess the best way to explain it is that like you said, I can follow their lines of thought and they seem to go along with what a townie player in their situation might think. Scum might have valid thought processes as well, but their lines of thought are naturally aimed at getting mislynches on people they know are town. Naturally, it's hard to distinguish, but I can try. Take for instance, Dormio, whose waffling strikes more of indecision rather than refusal to take a position in preparation for a wagon jump. Or Helepolis, whose laid-back approach to the game seems to be the result of a different style of play rather than opportunistic scum. Or UK, whose voting pattern is suspicious at first glance but seems to be accounted for by genuine frustration and anger. Etc.

Anyway, just because I think some people are more likely to be town doesn't mean I don't want clarification from them when I see actions from them that might be scummy. That's the point of bringing these things up - so they can respond to them, and I can better see where they are coming from, and whether this direction is helpful to town or not.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Warning - while you were typing 26 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
5:30am 6am 6:30am.
MAFIA PESCO IS RUINING MY LIFEEEEEEEEE.

Firstly, NeoSerela.
Again, I'd like to state the terrible D1 where he did nothing but jump onto bandwagons and makes a few posts on other people that all call people as being possibly town or scum.
Also, reread of Zakeri, is it ever going to happen?
And NeoSerela's only cases on people are Schezo for being the first person to vote for capt. h on D1 and Yonowaaru for lurking.

I really don't like this post of Bardiche's.
I mean, he's just been joking around the entire game.
Combine this with the fact that he calls other people out for being spectators when he admits to doing the same thing.

Uhh, running a bit low on time, seeing as I have to go out soon and I have done nothing yet.
So I'll post on Zakeri once I return from uni.


The following error or errors occurred while posting this message:
Your session timed out while posting. Please try to re-submit your message.
Holy what?

[Pesco]

Voting
Zakeri(1): Dormio
Schezo(4): Zakeri, NeoSerela, PX, Bard (L-2)
NeoSerela(4): Hourai, Schezo, Conqueror, UK (L-2)
Bardiche(1): Yonowaaru

Not Voting
Helepolis

11 alive, 6 to lynch.
24 hours remain

[Bardiche]

How is my post an admission of "spectating", and how does my joking around validate that I am scum?

[UncertainJakutten]

You were spying again from the balcony in my room again, weren't you? No wonder Patchouli-sama is often angry at Miss Meiling.

So...uh...Conquerer, instead of telling us why people aren't scum, could you produce the promised reads on us stragglers? Shouldn't take too long, right~?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Reporting for duty.

I'll re-read the thread and post when I get the chance.

[PX]

Totally not even going to try to read that wall fest known as Day 1 when I couldn't follow it when I was spectating.

Based on what's been going on D2, NeoSerela looks like he deserves the vote. His vote on Schezo is completely invalid now, and he's not even making an attempt to put a case, just leaving the vote there.

##Smoke
##Throw out last cigarette
##Look for money to buy more
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela

[Hanged Hourai]

@Conqueror
The only person I really think is scum for the time being is Neo. The others in this post, I'm just suspicious of.

Neoscumrela-
Pops up later in D1 and wants to start a new wagon with no reasoning or evidence, but only if others started doing it. When I asked him on it, he says it was bad. And his hypocrisy on his case on Schezo combined with overwhelming fluffiness make him look worse to me.

Dormio-
I dunno, I just don't get good vibes. When I said how he was willing to get on both wagons with little conviction, he counters it with how he said he already didn't like them. Then he goes and says how he is willing to lynch half the people in the game.
Defends with how he was willing to wagon either person with how he already voiced willingness to lynch. Then he says how he wants to lynch 5 people. Seems like he's giving himself a cushion in the case where if it comes down to 2 wagons, and he gets on the one that flips town, he gets to say he was already suspicious of others.

And also, he jumps and says how I said that he was scummy, which I never did. Twisting my words. I said I was suspicious of him, not that he was scummy.

He likes reporting on how much time people have before a prod, which I find to just be needlessly spreading suspicion. Once they pass the deadline, sure, but before just seems to be throwing names out.

Yonopansyfordroppingout-
Is there anything left to even say at this point? Please be better than him, HW. ;-;

PX reply

BRB, crying in a corner.

Done crying, ok. D1 IS IMPORTANT, WTF ARE YOU DOING!?!?!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You took 24 hours to come up with that? Other people please?
If it wasn't for rdj convincing me so hard that he was newbtown, I don't even know.

[UncertainJakutten]

That's L-1 by my count! Vote carefully.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

##Unvote
##Switch huh what and PX
##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche
First of all, I reallllly don't like the manner in which Bardiche has been handling his apparent role. The way he responded to capt. h's original request was actually rather anti-town - by sending out another fake action, he was both potentially using it as a chance to get in another action (the use of which we can not be sure of) and encouraging capt. h's pursuit regarding the role. The townie thing to do would have simply been to ignore the matter or deny the request without posting any fake actions, thus not drawing more attention from scum and having a lower chance into trapping the possible town!capt. h into rolefishing. The first instance of this could have at least been passed off as earlygame jokery, but it still does not excuse Bardiche's further shenanigans at the start of day 2 here and here, which have the same problem. I'm not buying into the idea that Bard should be cleared due to his roleclaim either, Serp's D1 posting patterns showed little suspicion against Shadoweh, which makes it hard to buy that he would have vigged her out of nowhere. Additionally, the flavor character that is apparently Bardiche's role could easily have entirely different functions than what Bard claimed (ie, causing the target to explode at the end of the day, killing them), so accepting the claim just because of flavor is silly. It should also be noted that Bardiche's role combined with the results of D1 make it easy for him to confuse town in regards to how scum's killing powers work, though I'm not entirely sure that this is the case here. If Bard is scum, I don't think that he turns people into bombs in the mafia sense, though.

Roles aside, his play itself did not seem particularly town-aligned. I dislike how easily he jumped off of rdj and handeled his Zak vote - he says that he found rdj to be badtown when unvoting, but what is it about rdj that caused Bard to feel rdj was more badtown than newbscum? An explanation for that seems to be missing. Furthermore, the jump on Zakeri that follows actually feels like a weaker case than his vote on rdj since Zak had at least provided an opinion unlike rdj, yet even after Bard seems to find Zakeri's point more acceptable, he still appears to be ignoring rdj and has Zak as his second priority even after claiming he was ready to move on from the Zak case. Considering that there were already two votes at the time Bardiche jumped on to Zakeri, it seems as if Bard was simply finding a nice wagon to rest on at the time. His later hop back onto Zakeri seems to support this theory of the original vote being an attempt to get onto a wagon, since Zakeri was suddenly even more of a viable lynch following Dormio's vote. Even the later voteswitch to capt. h made little sense, Zakeri was still a possibility for a lynch and there was no real reason for Bardiche not to stick to his guns at that point, and he also yet again failed to properly explain what made him so willing to vote his new target over his previous one. Going for the easier target, perhaps? A lack of proper stances on anybody other than Zakeri and a weak lurker meta-vote today is disheartening as well.

Naturally, a lot of this is less valid if Zak turns up scum any time soon, but considering the way everything has gone so far, I am more inclined to believe the Bard/Zak interactions are scum chasing after a townie.

tl;dr Bard ditched his previous cases on D1 multiple times in favor of weaker cases without properly explaining his switch, and the center case of his on that day seemed like he was scum resting his vote on a wagon. This was topped off by an unexplained late-in-the-day hop to the easiest wagon at the time, which then flipped town.

As for others, I don't like how much Serela has been buddying up to Bardiche so far this game, and his D1 stance on town!capt. h looks bad in light of the flip and the case on Schezo is hilariously weak. Not much to say on that that hasn't already been said, but out of all the current wagons, I would want Serela gone the most as I pretty much agree with most of the votes on him despite having little to add. I also thought rdpx's IIoA+lack of a serious vote until he was pressured looked bad on D1 (hence me not believing Bard's hop off of him was justified), and his willingness to jump off of Serela just because of the flimsy Schezo case. Alongside that, PX's sudden placement of Serela at L-1 + refusal to read D1 seems like something that would come from a lazy scum replacement to me. Dormio is unmemorable and might be worth looking into as well because I think that the Zak wagon was bad news despite its lack of a flip. I keep forgetting Hourai is playing too and that's probably a bad sign. Not willing to buy into the Schezo case because I don't see much in it beyond "he's lurking", and Schezo's capt. h vote actually felt solid to me even if it did start a wagon.

Priorities are currently something along the lines of Bard > Serela >> rdpx >>> Dormio and Hourai > everyone unmentioned > self, basically. As a warning, I probably won't be able to post after this until the next time the mod is online, so expect inactivity.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I	didn't	think	that	would
be	a	wall.	Apologies.	Nevermind
about	my	inactivity	by	the
way,	hopefully	this	shall	suffice.
We'll	see	how	it	goes.

[UncertainJakutten]

* The Least Ammy Kitten In The World slow claps

WELL then, HW. That...ah...took care of most of my complaints about Yono, really. And it's a pretty decent analysis. I'll want to reread Bard sometime tomorrow (going to bed soon), but you might be onto a thing.

[PX]

Currently *attempting* to read the crapfest known as D1, I have to ask something. How is putting a person at L-1 at this point a scumtell? It has been confirmed that we can talk during Twilight. The only thing that changes is that the lynch for the day is set and votes cannot change.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I don't think you're scum for putting a person at L-1, just for the manner in which you went about doing so.

That, and there's always the possibility that the hammered player could have produced something to change everybody's mind, ie a proper roleclaim.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

... In hindsight, I guess I didn't explain that very well when attacking you.

Basically, I felt that your vote on Serela was a rushed votepark coming from somebody who was being inattentive and didn't realize he was placing Serela at L-1. Considering that Serela is a dominant wagon right now, this type of laziness seems more likely to come from unmotivated scum who just replaced in than town, in my opinion.
I'm more willing to suspect you for rdj's play than your recent actions, though.