Author Topic: Judging a Phoenix  (Read 7264 times)

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Judging a Phoenix
« on: February 11, 2011, 04:08:01 AM »
(Note: I might change the thread title if this becomes my shorts thread)

___________________________________________


“You are to appear to before the honorable judge of the dead, Shikieiki Yamaxanadu.”

“I’m not dead yet.”

“No, you died one hundred twenty six thousand and three times. Your time to be judged is long overdue.”

“Am I going to… die? And stay dead?”

“Looks like it,” The woman continued, yawning. “Now hurry up. You’re my last passenger today.”

Before me stood a red-head wielding a scythe. She was oddly dressed, a blue dress adorned with unusual coins. But her casualness about death was what surprised me the most. While I have no idea what she meant by passenger, I wasn’t sure that I wanted to die. Four hundred years ago perhaps, but I started liking being alive. Not that it would matter to this woman. She clearly had years of experience in bringing souls to the court of the dead.

“Now come on,” she said, summoning a small boat and a wave out of nothing for it to float on. She clearly had a lot of water-based abilities.

“And if I don’t want to die?”

“You could always fight me,” the woman replied, instantly jabbing through my heart with her scythe. “But I wouldn’t advise it.”

Admittedly, I might have fought her anyway, but I still had to decide whether or not I wanted to die. It was a rare opportunity for me. Not that fighting water with fire sounded like fun. So I walked onto the boat.

“By the way, I’m shinigami Komachi, and I’ll be your guide across the Styx.”

“A death god? Never thought I would see one of those.”

“Well perhaps today is your lucky day.”

She might be right. It could be lucky.

______________________________________


“Well, here we are.” Komachi declared. We made it somewhere all right. The place looked like a Greek temple on the outside, steps running down the front right up to the water of the Styx. But it was huge. It was impossible to tell just how tall it was since it poked right through the clouds with no end in sight, but to call it as big as a mountain would be an injustice to its size.

“You made it…” a short green haired girl said. Though her voice made it clear she was a little disappointed.

“I’m off. Good luck Shiki,” and Komachi left me alone with the little girl.

“I was really hoping I would never have to meet you,” the little girl told me.

“Is something wrong?”

“Come on.”

The two of us, rather than attempting to walk up the thousands of steps leading up to the building, took flight.

“You have died more times than anyone in history. Did you know that?”

“No. But most people only die once, so it’s not surprising.”

“It’s not that,” the girl continued. “As the judge of the dead, I have to judge everyone who’s died. Unlike most creatures that have rejuvenation but will eventually truly die, the elixir of immortality is one of those things that was never meant to exist and for which we have no rules. So I have to judge every one of your deaths, and sentence you as a mortal.”

“Is that a problem?” I asked, as we passed through the huge marble columns into the main building.

“First, I have to judge every one of your now one hundred twenty six thousand and four deaths. And there are a lot of sins that shouldn’t be applied to immortals.”

We reached the inner chamber of the courthouse, where Shikieiki sat behind a hundred foot tall podium.

“Please sit there.”

Shikieiki gestured to a small folding chair in the middle of the room. Clearly it was intended to intimidate the accused, but it was hard to be intimidated when the judge was only four feet tall. Although sitting in the rickety folding chair, staring up Shikieiki’s giant mahogany podium to see the judge herself, somehow was both ridiculous and terrifying at the same time.

“Now let’s begin. The first death was a stoning. The villagers though you were a demon, and a rock bashed you skull in. Prior to that death, you killed a man to steal the hourai elixir. The next death was part of the same stoning, and that was due to blood loss. The third death was caused by your lungs being punctured. The fourth death was caused by your skull being cracked in the same stoning. The fifth death was caused by thirst, the sixth death was also caused by thirst. The seven death: mauled by a wolf. Death eight: died of hunger. Death nine: eaten by a youkai. Death ten: eaten by the same youkai. Death eleven: eaten by the same youkai. Death twelve;” Shikieiki paused for a moment. She looked somewhat ill. “Death twelve: cast yourself into a volcano. You committed the sin of suicide.”

“Does it count as suicide if I’m immortal?”

“Yes, it does,” she said. Hesitating again, she continued down her list. “Death thirteen: cast yourself into a volcano. Suicide.”

“That isn’t right. I think my next death was another mauling.”

“You misunderstand. You healed inside the lava and died again almost instantly. It was the same act of suicide as the original death, but you healed and died 236 times inside the volcano. That’s 236 individual acts of suicide according to the rules.”

Then it hit me. I’m going to hell. There’s no way I could make it anywhere else.

 “Death fourteen: cast yourself into a volcano. Suicide. Death fifteen: cast yourself into a volcano. Suicide. Death sixteen: cast yourself into a volcano. Suicide…” Shikieiki paused a moment. “Would you like me to tell you your sins now?”

I wasn’t sure. Did I want to give up the last hope of getting out of hell?

“Just tell me.”

“Each time you attempted to kill Kaguya was considered a murder attempt in spite of her immortality, and the times you succeeded considered a murder. And since the primary reason you die is in fights to the death with Kaguya, each of those lives contains mortal sin. In addition, almost every time you use your fire or blew yourself up you died from the burns, so they’re all considered suicide. Of your deaths, over ninety percent of them land you in hell. About five percent of them might land you in Hakugyokurou. And less than half a percent of them would get you into heaven.”

Shikieiki sat in silence for a moment, and I collected my thoughts. I was going to hell. Without a doubt, I was going to hell. In a few hours, I would know eternal torment. And the only reason I wasn’t there now was a technicality. Maybe I should just…

“Don’t even think about running away. Only a shinigami can make it here; everyone else eventually falls into the Styx, which is the direct route to hell.” She paused again.

“…Death seventeen: cast yourself into a volcano. Suicide…”

_____________________________


“Death one hundred twenty six thousand and three: burned to death. Suicide. Also homicide, since you killed Kaguya. Death one hundred twenty six thousand and four: impaled through the heart by a shinigami. Komachi, apparently.”

It took a week for Shikieiki to list every last death. I wasn’t sure what to do. So I sat, stared at the floor, and thought.

“So now what happens to me?”

“Now, I sentence you. Since the overwhelming majority of your lives land you in hell…” Shikieiki looked pale, like she was about to vomit. “I can’t sentence someone who is alive to hell.” That was good to hear. “But… I have to sentence those hundreds of thousands of lives to hell.”

She was silent for a moment. It was tense. I felt like I was suffocating from the silence. Not that I needed another death to add to the total.

“I sentence you to the former hell,” Shikieiki declares, banging a rod on her bench. A huge, fiery chasm appeared below me. I was able to fly above it fortunately, but Shikieiki was higher still, holding her rod.

“Next time you meet Komachi, well, I can’t tell you to fight her, but I’m not saying you shouldn’t.”

“Huh?”

“You don’t have to make her job easy next time you meet her.” Shikieiki said.

“There’s a next time?”

“Perhaps.” Then Shikieiki’s expression changed. She gained confidence. She knew what to do, though I didn’t know at the time. “Now feel the weight of your sins!”
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 07:52:19 AM by capt. h »

Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 06:40:44 AM »
You know, I'm not sure you actually meant this as a comedy -- it certainly didn't read like a comedy -- but something about this story overall made me giggle on a fundamental level.

Smallfry

  • Life.....Death.....
  • I own it all
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 05:23:10 AM »
How did she manage to get there if she can't die in the first place?
SOMETIMES YA DON'T NEED TO BE FASTER THAN THE BEAR, JUST FASTER THAN THE GUY NEXT TO YA

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 09:16:26 PM »
You know, I'm not sure you actually meant this as a comedy -- it certainly didn't read like a comedy -- but something about this story overall made me giggle on a fundamental level.

Son of a DUCK.

The worst part is that I agree. EDIT: No, it's not a comedy. This was me trying very hard to NOT make a comedy, but when I read it I know exactly what you mean.

How did she manage to get there if she can't die in the first place?

Of course she can die. She died one hundred twenty six thousand and four times. If she couldn't die, then there wouldn't be a reason to judge her.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 10:38:41 PM by capt. h »

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2011, 09:17:37 PM »
Shikieiki raised her rod into the air. I raised my arms to block it. Then she brought the rod down, and both arms snapped as I was hurled into the pit of flames. It burned my skin, right down to the bone. The light from the fires was blinding as well, and scorched its way into my retinas. As I tumbled down under the force of the judge’s mighty blow, I knew hell.

And yet, I thought it would be worse.

I burn myself to death out of boredom. I’ve died thousands of deaths. Was hell really just going to be more burning?

Then I hit a lava lake. It was hard to remember much after the lava melted my skull, but lava hurts. It’s like caramel in that it’s thick, sticky and hard to get off, but leaves some nasty burns. The next thing I remember is floating on top of the lake. My legs were no longer there, my arms were on fire, and the light was blinding, but my head was working well enough to fly out of the lake at least.

 The lake was huge. In fact, it was an ocean punctured only by stalagmites. I glanced up, noticing the ceiling for the first time. As vast as the ocean before me, I could not see where it ended, or even how it didn’t collapse under its own weight. It was rough and craggy, and like the ocean red stalactites adorned it.

“Beautiful, isn’t it?”

So there was more to hell then the fires it seems. Hell needs demons as well. Slowly, trembling, I turned my head to see this visitor.

Instead of a horribly mutilated demon come to torment my eternal soul, it was just a very pretty, tall woman with raven wings, an arm cannon, a red demonic eye sticking out of her chest, and a concrete slab where her foot should be. Which, looking back, does make her a horribly mutilated demon, but hell has a funny way of making itself both beautiful and terrible.

“Welcome to the former hell. You’re our first guest in ages. I’m Utsuho Reiuji, caretaker of this hell.”

“Former hell?”

“Yes,” Utsuho continued, “Though I’m warming it up. Tell me, who are you, and how did you get here?”

“My name is Fujiwara no Mokou. I was thrown in here by a death god.”

“So you’re not from around here,” Utsuho furrowed her brow, deep in thought. “Then that means you’re from above, correct?”

I replied, “Well, yes.” It was such an odd question though. It was a natural thing to ask and I should have expected it, but still, it was like asking me whether or not I breathed air. Only in Gensokyo could something so fundamental be questioned.

“And you must know all about the overworld.”

“Correct.”

“Well then, you’ll have to tell me all about it over a drink.”

Weird. I thought the only thing in hell would be the lava lake. It hadn’t occurred to me that there would be a bar. Though the groaning hinges of Hell’s ceiling told me there’s a lot more to this place than I first assumed. Slowly the ceiling parted as Utsuho strained herself under the weight of the stone.

“Well come on!” Utsuho commanded with a broad grin. “Unless you prefer the heat!”

Do I prefer an eternity of burning to death or drinking with a hell demon? As long as I’m stuck here, might as well have some fun.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 10:06:49 PM by capt. h »

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2011, 12:21:29 AM »
Why did only that one death send Mokou to Shiki? Did it have something to do with Komachi being the one who killed her?

Also, does this mean Shoot the Moon is on hiatus?

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2011, 03:52:21 AM »
Author's notes:

Why did only that one death send Mokou to Shiki? Did it have something to do with Komachi being the one who killed her?

Also, does this mean Shoot the Moon is on hiatus?

Oh no, not at all. Komachi brought Mokou to Shiki directly. Death had nothing to do with it.

I'm surprised that there's confusion about that point. Komachi brought Mokou directly to the court of the dead because she died thousands of times and her judgement was long overdue. No death sent Mokou to Shiki; Komachi did.

Sorry to ask, but there is something confusing about my story. I think my use of death is different than yours. What understanding do you have about death and how death works in regards to touhou?



Shoot the Moon is on hiatus because I hit a writing block that drained my interest. It's all the middle parts of the story that get me, and if I could ignore them, I would. There were some questions about whether Nue and the other UFO characters would appear. I thought I would include them, because I felt like I needed them. The only problem is that I have absolutely no interest in those characters, which caused me to hit a writers block. I'm hoping to make this story short enough that I finish it before I come across a part that makes me stop.

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 06:35:53 AM »
Well, about the writer's block, I might have a way to get past that: have something exiteing happen. It doesn't have to be too important to the overall plot; just have the millitary attack somebody or something like that, preferably a group that doesn't expect it (such as the UFO characters or, if you don't want to use them, someone else, maybe the Moriya shrine group), although even one that does expect it could work. The important part is to get something happening.

So, yeah, pretty simple, but it works. Or it has for me, at least.

And about the death thing, the confusion was that you never actually stated how Mokou ended up at the Sanzu River. That's all it was (for me, at least).

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 07:27:04 AM »
Oh.

Well, you see, she isn't at the sanzu river. Komachi summoned the Styx river to her. That's what I meant when I said:

?Now come on,? she said, summoning a small boat and a wave for it to float on. She clearly had a lot of water-based abilities.


GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 07:33:48 AM »
Ah. Well, that clears it up, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 05:27:00 PM »
I thought the way that you handled Mokou's "deaths" was pretty clever: it's not so much immortality as it is skipping Shikieiki entirely to be reincarnated. Right back where you were. I'm wondering how she got out of that volcano the first time around.

Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2011, 06:19:56 PM »
I'm wondering how she got out of that volcano the first time around.

My guess is that she didn't go that far in and floated back to the top like with the underground lava lake (magma is more dense than Mokou and whatnot). Of course, steam and smoke are less dense still, not to put too fine a point on it.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2011, 10:06:21 PM »
I should probably sit on my updates longer than I do before posting them. This is a revision of the previous section.

___________________________________

Hell isn?t so bad. Well, the former hell isn?t so bad. There is a bustling city above the flaming pit, a lively one whose denizens love nothing more than parties, drinking, and tests of strength. Apparently, they?re exiles from the surface, who?ve sealed themselves underground and have enjoyed themselves ever since. Unfortunately, they?re also fascinated by the surface, and I?m not very good with people.

Utsuho rested her stone glass on the stone table of the stone bar, lying back on her stone chair. If there?s one thing plentiful down here, it?s rocks. ?I?m told that the surface has a sun,? she began. ?Can you explain it to me??

?Well, it?s too bright to look at, and it?s warm. It travels across the sky.?

?What?s the sky??

?Er? well it?s the absence of a ceiling.? This is definitely going to take a while.

?If there?s no ceiling, then what?s above you?? Utsuho wasn?t going to make this easy, was she? I guess I shouldn?t be surprised. It looks like most these demons, these youkai, have never seen the sun.

?During the day, the sun is above. At night, there are little specks of light we call stars and a large orb we call the moon.?

Utsuho gave me a blank stare, and then glanced upwards in thought. ?Day? and night??

I sighed. She really wasn?t making it easy. ?During the day, the sun is out, and it?s easy to see. At night, there?s not much light and it?s hard to see.?

Placing her fingers on her temples, she continued, ?So it would be better if the sun was always out, right??

?No. Well, maybe. It?s always been day half the time and night half the time, so I wouldn?t know.?

?I don?t quite get it.?

?If we ever make it to the surface, I?ll show you.?

?That?ll never happen.? I looked around, and realized that quite a few people, demons, or whatever they call themselves, were staring. They were all shapes and sizes, but this one had a red horn with a star on it. She was also slightly tipsy, but it was the foot-long centipede on her plate that had my attention. ?We stay down here, they stay up there, and everyone?s happy.? She sucked out the innards of her meal, leaving a husk behind.

Utsuho looked down at her hands, er, hand and arm cannon, before responding. ?Suppose hell?s domain expanded a bit. Suppose hell went to the surface. Then we could see the sky, couldn?t we??

The demon, I believe it was an oni, said, ?Yep. If hell was above, then we could visit it. But that?ll never happen!? she declared with a swig of her mug.

Though Utsuho?s determined smirk seemed to disagree with the oni. ?Let?s make it happen,? she said, raising her arm cannon.

The oni raised her glass in response. ?Cheers to that!?

?I doubt the people at the surface would approve. I do have a friend or two up there.?

?Had.? Utsuho corrected. The oni added ?Now you?re stuck with us!?

They had a point. They lived in hell their entire lives underground. If they had no way to the surface, I doubt I could make it. I emptied my glass.

?Is there really no other way up??

?There is one other option,? the oni went on. ?Down town there?s a bridge out of hell, to a well that?s been sealed up for decades. That?s the closest place to the surface. But it has to be opened from both sides.?

?Which means,? Utsuho continued, ?That to open it, we would have to make the residents of the surface want to open it.?

?It can be bypassed by a couple oni and youkai that need regular access to hell, and I even have a friend up there right now. But Okuu is right. If you want to get topside, we?ll either need a different route or to make the overworlders want it open.?

?Okuu?? I don?t know an Okuu.

?Me.? Utsuho answered. ?It?s a nickname I?ve had for ages.?

Smallfry

  • Life.....Death.....
  • I own it all
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 11:06:11 PM »
While this is a great story, I have one nagging complaint. It's not possible to be sent to hell or heaven if you're still alive. Mokou can't die.

Excerpt from official profile:

Humans who never age can't fit into the human world, so Mokou was forced to live as a wanderer... Humans usually can't survive alone, but she can't die. However, she still suffers from hunger if she doesn't eat and pain if she becomes injured. She still feels pain, but can never truly be dead.

SOMETIMES YA DON'T NEED TO BE FASTER THAN THE BEAR, JUST FASTER THAN THE GUY NEXT TO YA

Kips McKipzerson

  • I never did learn
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 03:57:08 AM »
While this is a great story, I have one nagging complaint. It's not possible to be sent to hell or heaven if you're still alive. Mokou can't die.

Excerpt from official profile:

Humans who never age can't fit into the human world, so Mokou was forced to live as a wanderer... Humans usually can't survive alone, but she can't die. However, she still suffers from hunger if she doesn't eat and pain if she becomes injured. She still feels pain, but can never truly be dead.
fanon =/= canon.
Though you are correct in every sense. In touhou, death is when the soul is ripped from the body, but the Hourai Elixer makes it so the soul reincarnates the body each time she dies. She also cannot do to the netherworld because of this. However, Shikieiki is a judge of souls. I'm pretty damned sure she can bend the laws of everything to judge someone, per say, allow mokou into hell by disabling whatever. But yeah, mokou cant go to the netherworld. Ever.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 10:10:39 PM »
While this is a great story, I have one nagging complaint. It's not possible to be sent to hell or heaven if you're still alive. Mokou can't die.

Excerpt from official profile:

Humans who never age can't fit into the human world, so Mokou was forced to live as a wanderer... Humans usually can't survive alone, but she can't die. However, she still suffers from hunger if she doesn't eat and pain if she becomes injured. She still feels pain, but can never truly be dead.
fanon =/= canon.
Though you are correct in every sense. In touhou, death is when the soul is ripped from the body, but the Hourai Elixer makes it so the soul reincarnates the body each time she dies. She also cannot do to the netherworld because of this. However, Shikieiki is a judge of souls. I'm pretty damned sure she can bend the laws of everything to judge someone, per say, allow mokou into hell by disabling whatever. But yeah, mokou cant go to the netherworld. Ever.

Sorry that this is a non-update, but I'd like to tackle this.

People who are in the Netherworld are considered dead. However, residents who leave the Netherworld are also considered dead, even when not in the Netherworld (Yuyuko). Furthermore, ghosts can die, in spite of being dead, while in the Netherworld. This brings the contradiction of How can Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya be alive if they've died?

From Reimu, against Yuyuko:

Quote
We can't know before we try.

And by the way, uninvited girl,

being here at this point in time is like dying.

Being here in this place is equal to being dead.


While Youmu gives us this from her battle against Reimu:

Quote
...it must be because a living human has come here.

Which is followed by a bunch of lines about how just about anyone can get into the Netherworld.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Cherry_Blossom:_Reimu%27s_Scenario

I'm working on the assumption that living people can in fact enter the Netherworld very easily, and that Yuyuko's line was a threat against Reimu. Truthfully, first time I played the game, I assumed she was threatening Reimu and only learned that Yuyuko was referring to "the Netherworld" as "this place", as opposed to "this place" meaning "in front of Yuyuko" later.

Now for Mokou's boast, the other half of the reason people assume she can't visit the Netherworld:

Quote
Ghosts without a soul cannot be born...
People who can't die cannot know the world of the dead.

Eternally born into darkness is life
Eternal death at the end of the dark.

The only problem is that when she said this line, it was completely impossible for to know if she could go to the Netherworld directly, with a living body, because she's never tried. She can't know the land of the dead because she can't die to get there, and thus she can't go the way most people get there, but it is impossible for her to know one way or the other whether she could fly there unless she flew there herself. And Yuyuko doesn't exactly confirm or deny it: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Ghost_Team%27s_Extra

In otherwords, the assumption that Mokou can't go to the Netherworld is based on two things: 1. A threat Yuyuko used on Reimu, which could be true but doesn't completely hold logically, and 2. A boast Mokou had no way of knowing was true or not. On those premises, and the ease of which Reimu got in without an in-canon explanation for why Mokou can't use the same method, led to this interpretation.

Incidently, the reason I assume Mokou can is that I can't figure out anything that would stop her. Sure you can say Mokou can't be in the Netherworld, but then you have to justify why when the border between life and death is as effective as a "Do Not Enter" sign.

EDIT: It might be better to continue this in the "ask a question" section of the Hakurei shrine board.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 10:14:55 PM by capt. h »

Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2011, 10:32:46 PM »
I suppose the simplest answer, as far as this particular story is concerned, is that the Sanzu river and Shiki's court aren't technically part of "the afterlife" as such, they're just sort of stopping-points on your way someplace else. And the Former Hell is just that: a former hell, and now it's just an ordinary physical location (while still a valid place for Shiki to send Mokou due to lolbureaucracy).

GuyYouMetOnline

  • Surprisingy not smart for lynch dodging
Re: Judging a Phoenix
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2011, 01:47:30 AM »
It also depends on what you mean by 'die'. Mokou's died a shitload of times, but she resurrects.

...Yeah, trying to make sense of Touhou canon is futile.