Moriya Shrine Mafia II (Day 5)

[Schezo]

While I did jump on Bob early, I later came back and gave legitimate for why I thought what I did, while here you are copying reasons people have already said again.  Also when did I defend reVelske?  For not hammering him here while I thought Bob was acting scummier?  You're still very suspicious to me and I'll leave my vote on you until you can come up with something better.

[Hanged Hourai]

Also, Hourai, I just want to point out that your wagon jump on Schezo is pretty much of the same ilk as Schezo's jump on Bob. Why should you be exempt from your own reasons to vote somebody, if you supposedly agree with Affinity so much?

Seeing as how using a derp is out of the question, I'll do my best for an answer.

Affinity had valid points, like Schezo's parrot + wagon in addition with his silence.

Schezo's only thing on Bob was that he wasn't going on a scum crusade. Which is probably a testament to Bob's own personality rather than his motives.

New reply yadda yadda

But you didn't even put any pressure on him to come up with a reply. You took the wait-and-see, which gives all the more power to scum. Had you put pressure on, then I might have a different opinion.

[Doll.S CUBE]

While Rev's actions are suspicious, I don't think his scum because he says he was going to lurk and that is just stupid if he was scum as it's bringing undue attention onto him, like now. But then, what if that's what he wants people to think....@.@

Also, I'm convinced Hourai is town now for similar reasons as Rev.

As for who I think are scum, no one particular. Although I have my suspicion on Roukan, VGtame and Schezo but for no real reason except a feeling, so my view is not to be trusted.

[PX]

Doll, what have you done all game? Absolutely nothing! You've just thrown jokevotes over lurkers, trying to help everyone, and not helping town at all. Not to mention you have said you were going to be passive, AKA active lurking, like a few others that have taken dirt for doing. Why shouldn't you?

##Vote: Doll

[Doll.S CUBE]

I said I was going to be passive? When?

[Vibri]

I have to apologize for my weak D1 play. This is the last time I?m going to do this, but I?m going to pull out my newb card.

This entire time, we?ve seen him defenseless. And you guys just write it off as him being a derp/confused. AND MAYBE THAT?S WHAT HE WANTS. He could be a scumbag hiding behind that as a shield, and you guys just fall straight for it. It?s been working perfectly so far.
His derpiness is the perfect natural defense.

there is some serious fuckin' disconnect in this post right here.  Hourai your whole 'please ignore how bad I was on day 1' thing is kind of ridiculous and honestly the way you're going at it like you had some intense personal revelation N1 just makes me think you have some kinda outside influence that told you to shape up.  An influence like the other members of the scum team am I right

[reVelske]

Saying that day 1 arguments are helpful and then saying that you're not going to participate in them does not make you look smart.  It actually just makes you look extremely scummy.

It's a moral choice, as said before, I simply have no interest in throwing baseless accusations around, if you believe that to be scummy, so be it. Don't you think there would've been far better options to stay low profiled than to piss on everyone's battery? Hell, I could just repeat what everyone else said like Schezo to look pro-town, hell, I could just shut up and say nothing like Bardiche to fly under the radar, hell, I could act like I'm still a complete newbie and look completely uncertain about everything like DollS to be more or less ignored. The lack of logic behind believing someone to be scum when they openly wish not to participate in Day One crap is really mind boggling. I do agree that lurking is bad and I have always welcomed lurker-lynch for day one when there is no better option, but to continuously harp on how I've played and accuse me of doing squat is a little too much.

So you thought that the reasons everyone put forward weren't enough to justify a lynch of Bob or Schezo

Wrong, read what i said. I had my suspicions on Schezo, but it seem stupid to have a new player voted off on the first day when they've hardly get to enjoy the game. Besides, I consider it rather beneficial to the town to have one of them lynched when you have two huge wagons like those going regardless of their alignment, as I've stated before, the only BAD thing that could happen is if a PR gets lynch, nothing wrong with a vanilla town lynch.

well considering your track record this game I'd say you're bad lmfao peace

I say you still need your definition revised.

But yeah yeah, I'll get on with some scumhunt sooner or later, when I have both the patience and the time.

[Doll.S CUBE]

VgameT, what makes you think Hourai is scum particularly? He could be a pro-townie role that discovered something about Schezo with his night power.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

It looks more like tunnel vision than a power role to me.
That said, I'm still leaning town on Hourai because of the whole wagon-tying issue. Honestly not seeing how his motivation is coming off more like he got a push from his scumbuddies than that he just felt like doing better rather than floundering around (because obviously as a townie he'd want to improve himself to better help his alignment too). Though it is irritating how he is trying to convince everyone to ignore his D1 completely.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

In all honesty though, I'm beginning to wonder if Schezo / Hourai may be a town vs town struggle, but ugh Schezo's hop on the Bob wagon doesn't settle well enough with me to completely convince myself. I would like the people who have been passing off Schezo as derptown so far to explain why they are doing so, so that I can at least understand both sides of the argument a little more. Nobody who has said "Schezo is obvderp" whatever has actually explained why, and that bugs me a little.

Speaking of which, has VgT said anything about Schezo so far this game? Because I don't think he has, which is a little bit odd since Schezo was the other big wagon D2. Unless I completely missed something.

[Vibri]

VgameT, what makes you think Hourai is scum particularly? He could be a pro-townie role that discovered something about Schezo with his night power.

uhhhhh I'm not sure what makes you think that about him in particular but given that he was all over Schezo D1 as well that seems kind of unlikely?  I mean any living player with a vote out could be a power role who investigated the person they're voting for as scum.  It would be weird to actually make that assumption about anyone though.  Also,

While Rev's actions are suspicious, I don't think his scum because he says he was going to lurk and that is just stupid if he was scum as it's bringing undue attention onto him, like now

That argument assumes that scum never do anything suspicious or stupid, which isn't the case.  This game would be pretty hard if the scum played perfectly.  The idea that they make mistakes that allow us to find them is kind of an integral part of the game.  If you write off every scummy thing someone does because it makes them look scummy, and scum wouldn't want to look scummy, you're left with nothing to work with.  This might be why you only have gut feelings to work off of.

as for Hourai: His D1 play really is bad, especially on a reread.  He goes for a lurker vote early on and immediately throws the new player card when called out on it.  He blatantly bandwagon-votes Schezo, and when people call him out on it he just goes "oh no I made a noob mistake!!!"  Pesco asks him why he thinks Schezo is scummy and he basically says "I don't know, but I want him dead."  He follows up with "whoops I mean, there's no way to know he's town, someone has to get lynched, and I think he's scummy" which sidesteps that question entirely. 
Multiple people call him out after that, both at the end of D1 and the beginning of D2, which he completely ignores in favor of saying "everything D1 doesn't count because I'm a new player."  He then hammers Schezo for not having any defense.  Soooo that's pretty ridiculous.  I don't think his point about Schezo clearing reV is really valid, either.  It's kind of a stretch to say "you gave reV a pass for his post" when Hourai said absolutely nothing about reV D1, instead focusing super hard on Neo for some reason.  A lot of the reasons he has for voting Schezo can also apply to himself.

reV: I will probably keep saying you've done nothing until you've, like, done a thing.  until then please feel free to keep badly defending yourself and then saying "I'll do a thing when I get around to it guys, really"

cut by jack noir:
I think I said something about him not making sense before, which is still kind of true.  To me it seems like he's legitimately trying to bring up points for discussion and hunt scum, even if his actual logic is kind of wonky.

[Bardiche]

Catching up on what's happened. Sorry for my absence thus far.

[Bardiche]

##VOTE: reVelske

The asshole attitude doesn't do you favours, and although you complain I posted less than you did, I didn't choose to lurk and do nothing openly. If you think a leading train is bad, you should spend every effort to dissuade Town and go for the more likely one. If we all played by your book of Mafia, we would just sit back on D1 and wait for deadline to fall while doing nothing, and honestly, no. You said yourself that lynching lurkers on D1 is a perfectly valid strategy─I don't see why we should  excuse your active lurking.

As for the rest.

I see a lot of derps have been passed around and a lot of huh what (d'oh hoh hoh) moments have come to pass. The newbie squad is falling over itself in the derpsicle that was D1, while someone like huh what is following a surprisingly derptastic line of reasoning and he is my second candidate for scum thusfar.

The thing that irks me about huh what is that he first calls attention to my public role and then he slams the guy who inquires about it. Bob was entirely correct in diagnosing that my role was a non-tell, and the rationale behind inquiring about my role is not as bad as Inaba and Huh What would like us to believe.

For one, there was specific attention called to it. Can you blame a man for inquiring about something that was called attention to? Huh What, who fished for information in a subtle manner, has done nothing but drive home the point that Bob must definitely be scum for blatantly rolefishing, and it is a point that is most egregiously short-sighted for someone who's played Mafia so often before. It honestly feels like a trap that's been sprung and hammered home to astounding effect.

Hourai, PX, and Doll honestly need to gather their opinions, analyse why they think someone's scum and come out with solid reasoning, because all this "I agree with person x" justifying a vote is incredibly likely to only cause problems later on.

Schezo's OMGUS isn't particularly impressive and I can definitely see why he should be lynched, but between reVelske's "You're all fucking morons and I don't want to participate in D1" and Huh What's bizarre pursuit of Bob, he only comes in at third rank for me. Also, newbie pass to some rather silly statements like "Bob seems the most scummy to me", without ever providing what exactly is so scummy.

His initial vote for Bob was blatant panic-wagoning with the "end of day is near" comment, and "liability to town" is never a good reason to vote. Calling reVelske "I have no reason to believe you're not scum" (what is up with that reasoning?) and yet keeping his vote on "liability to town" while also defending Bob sort of is just downright bizarre.



In summation:
reVelske, no, just "you are fucking morons" does not excuse letting a bad wagon go by uncontested while admitting you were there, you were active and you were reading along.
Huh What, your reasoning on Bob was bad and you should feel bad.
Schezo, why was Bob "the most scummy" and why do you excuse reVelske, given you were withholding a vote pending his opinion, and his opinion so far has been "you guys are fucking morons"?

[Doll.S CUBE]

My reasoning for thinking that Rev and Hourai are town are that those "scummy" signs are too obvious and I like to think that people are smart, but then that's just me They're not even trying to hide it...

[Bardiche]

"They are so scummy that it's impossible they're scum". Do you realise how flawed this reasoning is?

[reVelske]

reVelske, no, just "you are fucking morons" does not excuse letting a bad wagon go by uncontested while admitting you were there, you were active and you were reading along.

AGAIN, don't misinterpret my Day One stance, it's not that I think people are morons, it's just that I simply do not enjoy making something out of nothing and throwing accusations around for the minor things and blowing them out of proportion just to make things happen. And also, AS I'VE EXPLAINED, the double wagon situation is perfectly fine IMHO, and seeing how I did not have a strong case against anyone in particular nor do I have faith in persuading anyone to get off those wagons, it was better to leave the situation be.

People really seem to enjoy simplifying my stance as me calling everyone idiots then making it clear that I'm gonna lurk, that was far from the case, mind not oversimplifying and twisting what I said?

And what's so scummy about what I'm doing anyways? I have reasoned all my actions, if you see some flaw in my reasoning, say so, not simply brushing it all aside and scumpaint me .

[Doll.S CUBE]

Like I said, I like to think people are smart *shrug*

[Bardiche]

And what's so scummy about what I'm doing anyways?

I dunno, replying only to excuse your active lurking with nothing to show for it, and blatant disregard for town's effort to hunt scum while cheerleading bandwagons doesn't sound scummy to you?

[Bardiche]

Like I said, I like to think people are smart *shrug*

So beside "these people are scum so much they must be town", do you maybe have any "these people are scum so much they must be scum" to share with us? :V

[reVelske]

Blatantly disregard for town's effort? No?

And it's finally lunch town, I'm busy going through shit, gimme a break, geez.

And as for the wagons, what, would you rather have the entire town agreeing on a single specific lynch at the end of the day? Or have the town scatters its votes everywhere?

[reVelske]

*Lunch TIME, fgsfds. wtf Lunch town.

[Bardiche]

You seem like a smart fella, so why do you twist my words?

[reVelske]

I am? Well you seem to have some issue against me "cheerleading" the bandwagons, and I do not quite understand your "Blatantly disregard for town's effort" comment.

Just to double check, am I correct to assume that Hourai and Schezo are new to the game?

And just to continue defending myself on the matter of lurking, my supposedly "imma-gonna-lurk" post is done on my Saturday morning (which is after my evening of gaming and just before I sleep), nothing much took place up till that point aside from all the back and forth between Bob and Bob-haters, as much as I really should've commented on that, I was tired and not really bothered. Most of the activities (page 3 - 4) happened during my sleep, which I responded to after I got up in the morning and the day soon ended. Soo.... there wasn't actually all that much lurking TBH :V

Anyhow, still going through shit.

[reVelske]

Alright, let's see.

First of all, sure, I've been spending most of my posts defending myself rather than actually scum hunting, but what's so wrong about that? Would you rather that I give some half-ass defense and go straight onto some scum hunting mission? I'm certain it would've been more suspect if I only started scumhunting when pressured whilst giving very little defense. Besides, I have perfectly good reasons to have played the way I've played, no reason to keep myself silenced about it.

Now...  not that it matters much, but Mod: there's an error on the final Day One vote count, Affinity moved his vote off Schezo so he is suppose to be L4 with Affinity name grayed out.

And Doll, anything to say about not participating in any voting action at the end of Day One?

I'm not a particular fan of huhwhat, Pesco and VgT's votes on Bob, all three were done very early in the game with pretty weak ass reasons and never received any follow-ups towards the end of the day, Pesco and huhwhat attacked Bob for his supposed "passiveness" by misinterpreting his "I'm not going to be aggressive" and his supposed rolefishing attempt (when all I can see is a show of curiosity, which huhwhat has done himself as others have pointed out), VgT initially defended Bob indirectly on that matter by pointing out how huhwhat may be trying a little too hard, but went on to vote for Bob a little while later for the supposed OMGUS and accusing the vote of having "absolutely no rationale or scumhunting attached", considering how weak pesco's reasoning was and how he did not retouch on the subject, I don't see how a counter-vote against Pesco would be any less rational and scumhunty than any other posts at the time. And this is straight after he slapped  huhwhat on the wrist for his oversensitivity.

Rouk was the first on the wagon for weak reasoning as well, but unlike the others, he actually continued to bash Bob even towards the end of the day, now despite the fact that I found his end day Bob-bashing to consist mostly of random crappy word-twisting, at least he tried and made some valid points. (still mostly crap)

Now that's out of the way...

Speaking of which, has VgT said anything about Schezo so far this game? Because I don't think he has, which is a little bit odd since Schezo was the other big wagon D2. Unless I completely missed something.

Nothing aside from this.

Now from what reVelske said just now is curious because he decides to not do anything at all to aid the town in trying to get some actual discussion going that will prove useful later on.  He calls our current discussions pointless crap yet does nothing to add to it and also admitted to active lurking, so whenever he does post his opinion, it better be insightful.  I will have to wait for your commentary to convince me now that you aren't scum.  However, bringing your opinion too late will probably sway a bandwagon into getting a random lynch and leaving us with less to work with on day 2.

Until then I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

I still don't like that and Schezo's general posting mannerism (tone, if you'd like to call it), the above post is the the first pro-active post made by him (which most members managed to do with a single sentence) with of an exaggerated paragraph of crap that looks nothing less than him trying too hard to sound pro-town whilst staying reasonably neutral. His posts lack the aggression and conviction to make them convincing, and most of them are simply weak prods and re-wording of what others have said.

You've just want me to defend myself on stuff that already happened and what will get us nowhere

And that's just plain BULLSHIT.

##vote: Schezo

Not only does he seem suspect, if he does flip scum, the double-wagon at the end of day one will potentially provide a lot more information than what it does now.

With that out of the way...

PX has been MIA for too long, he needs to post.

Hourai just seem like an over-aggressive newbie, I see very little merit in attacking him for it... yet.

Now I just wasted my 2 hours lunch break (which is really 1 hour, but I can sorta stretch it) for this, hope you bastards are at least happy.

[reVelske]

I'm also a little curious to Affinity's lack of reaction to my "lurking", he did made minor mentions about how he's not exactly happy about it, but they were very minor mentions whilst speaking of other subjects.

[Affinity]

@reVelske

Well, I played with you before, reV, so I was used to this attitude.  It was not as if anything I would have said would change your conviction of 'being fine about the double wagon', and I can't say I don't understand that either.  Your absence didn't affect D1, and so you would be around the same as Doll, effectively starting the game later on D2, which while not comforting, was fine.

One thing I'm curious about your opinion is how Schezo's lack of defense is 'bullshit'.  What would you expect to see that matters other than a renewed case on someone else (he gave an original reason on Bob)?  And yes, I would rather you not defend yourself and made the post you just made; I was almost going to say how the entire body of posts you made so far were fluff that did not matter.

---

I honestly think most of the votes on reVelske were made due to bitter feelings over his posting style, so hopefully that will be over after the voting post he made.  I'm interested as to why no one voting reV was voting Doll, since she had almost the same participation without the sincerity behind it. 

Hourai, I'm quite alright with his code of conduct so far; going after Schezo solidly while giving a clear train of thought does speak for his towniness, especially the rather easy reV hate at the beginning of the day, even if I feel that his line of query is a little flawed (e.g he DID give an original reason for voting Bob, which I agreed with).  He's also following up on D1 suspicions and introducing new points other than OMGUS! and bandwagon jump!, what with Schezo's lack of pressure on anyone, which is pretty much true.

Schezo, I was impressed with his observation that Bob voted for pesco before voting for him when he could have here, which was more original than most things raised yesterday.  However, his sparse posting and rather intermittent pressure, as well as his rather weak OMGUS against Hourai, don't exactly speak well against him, especially when he seems to be playing defensively now without giving any clear views on anyone else.  Combine this with the flip, and his bandwagon jump seems more prevalent now. 

Schezo, what do you think of people like Doll and reVelske?  Anyone else who is second on your scumhunting hierarchy?

However, while Schezo is currently second on my list, Roukanken is first.  He has given absolutely no evaluation on Schezo other than the observation that 'he makes no sense' and that 'he's more derp than town'.  Other than this he says nothing, and yet questions on why people are... voting him, without referencing anything like the OMGUS and the bandwagon jump.  This is especially prevalent at the critical point here, where one would expect careful weighing of Schezo and Bob, but this was not expressed in the slightest.  This singular pressing for Bob's lynch, coupled with the unreasonable, indirect defense of Schezo seems rather off.  There is also absolutely nothing on anyone else on D2 other than a he may be he may not on Hourai, in comparison to everyone else.  Will probably move to Schezo soon, but for now, I want to pressure Rou.  His reasons for his Bob vote are rather... meta-ish as well without consideration for the situation on D1 (e.g newbie scum will aggressively rolefish but not passively apparently because all newbies are obviously the same!  Rolefishing automatically clouds town's thought processes too but did that happen? It's more of we are clouding ourselves etc.). 

##Vote: Roukanken

[reVelske]

One thing I'm curious about your opinion is how Schezo's lack of defense is 'bullshit'.  What would you expect to see that matters other than a renewed case on someone else (he gave an original reason on Bob)?  And yes, I would rather you not defend yourself and made the post you just made; I was almost going to say how the entire body of posts you made so far were fluff that did not matter.

I was referring specifically to "what will get us nowhere" part, which I've quoted in bold but that's not very visible. And what I meant was that analyzing posts and actions from the previous days is far from pointless.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Right, some more reading. Let's see what's happened since my last post.

First, because Zak has been absent, a quick votecount:

reVelske (4): Rou, VgameT, huh what, Bardiche
Schezo(2): Hourai, reVelske
Hourai(1): Schezo
Doll(1): PX
Rou(1): Affinity

Not voting - Neo [;_;], Doll

Now, posts that come to mind:

134 - reV blatantly admits he doesn't give a shit about d1. What I like [read: can't stand] is that he spends so long defending himself and not doing any actual attacking.

138 - Doll stop reading into flavour and start posting some useful stuff kthx.

141 - Hourai is STILL tunneling on Schezo, and with horrible logic like 'maybe he's PRETENDING to be derp!'. If you put it that way, we have no reason to think PX isn't pretending to be derp, or YOU aren't pretending to be derp. Also, what are your opinions on players who are not Schezo?

142 - I like VgT, keeps his stuff short and sweet, and I agree with a lot of it. I like this guy.

143 - Besides the idea that Bob/Schezo is a Town/Town wagon? That is a pretty good reason for scum!Hourai to put his vote there.
As for my opinion on Schezo, in terms of content I decided it mostly on this post. In general, I can't see scum [or indeed scumteam] letting a buddy get away with spouting this sort of nonsense. I'll agree that he needs to step up his game today, but generally I didn't think there was enough against him that seemed genuinely malicious.
More prominently, and as I said here, I was turned off by the impossible speed the Schezo wagon appeared in. Four Townies do not conveniently come to agreement on the same suspicion within such a short span of time.

144 - 'Sup guys, disregard all the scummy things I did D1 plz'. You can't just ask not to be accountable for your play, Hourai.

147 - I am...uncertain about how to feel about this post.
While pressing Schezo for defense on his earlier actions without any obvious questioning isn't really very Townie, Schezo isn't doing much hunting because of it. Schezo, same question I asked Hourai - opinions on some more players that aren't 'what other people have already said'?

153 - A word comes to mind when I read this. I'm not sure why.
Seriously though pressing Doll for lurking when you have uh been lurking all game? I am disappoint.

156 - Pre-emptive 'oh boy, it's a reV post, this'll be fun'.
The more I read this the more I am reminded of Kefit and how he always got bandwagoned early on because he didn't give a damn about D1. The problem is that a) Kefit then usually went on to give USEFUL analysis and info in later days and b) Kefit was not such a massive jerk about it.
reV, seriously. People are not more likely to agree with you if you call them stupid every five freaking seconds.

162 - I like the point on HW, admittedly. I'd prefer Hourai, still, but given the way Hourai gets cleared as town because HW can't think of a reason for scum to close up a potential town/town wagon I'd not have trouble believing a HW/Hourai scumpair.

163 - I want to cry.

173 -

First of all, sure, I've been spending most of my posts defending myself rather than actually scum hunting, but what's so wrong about that? Would you rather that I give some half-ass defense and go straight onto some scum hunting mission?

Um...Yes?
The saying goes that the best defense is a good offense. If you're under suspicion, rather than trying to convince people that the reasons they suspect you are wrong, go out and make a case against someone else that is better than theirs. Sitting around and arguing tiny points about why you are Town DOES NOT HELP TOWN.

OK, saying this one last time to see if it gets through. reV, ahead of being a lurker and all that, the reason everyone is so angry at you is that you are acting like an asshole. Seriously man, if you want anyone to take you seriously a) contribute and b) stop being such a jerk.

175 - Again, four votes in eleven posts, which were posted in the space of just over three hours. That was enough to turn me off from the Schezo case, and in a generally meh D1 Bob was the best case I saw.

-----

tl;dr - I will admit from Affinity's point that my personal opinion of reV plays a lot into my vote on him, but I feel there's enough actual meat on the case for him to be worth looking into.
Hourai has only become worse. He reminds me of myself as scum in Patchcon with the overexaggerated opinions and insistence on clarifying my points every post rather than making new ones and never letting go of the case ever. I figure that if reV's on L-2 right now I can afford to put another of my suspects up there.

##Unvote
##Vote: Hanged Hourai

The other person who's flaring up my suspicions is PX. Practically invisible D1, contributed to the horrible horrible HORRIBLE Schezo bandwagon, then jumped on Doll today for a reason that is completely hypocritical.

Super tl;dr - REV STOP RAGING

[WHMZakeri]

First Count of Day Two

ReVelske (L-4) Roukanken, Huh what, Bardiche
Schezo (L-4) Hanged Hourai, ReVelske
Hanged Hourai (L-4) Schezo, Roukanken
Robotic Doll.S (L-5) PhoeniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-5) Affinity

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to Lynch

Boy, I'm glad I managed to get a votecount in before someone complained I was too slow.
Cut:

[reVelske]

134 - reV blatantly admits he doesn't give a shit about d1. What I like [read: can't stand] is that he spends so long defending himself and not doing any actual attacking.

For the last fucking time, no, that's NOT what I said, I do not ENJOY flinging shit around, but I still appreciate how such actions promote activities that can be used later during the game. I. JUST. DON'T. ENJOY. DOING. IT. MYSELF.

And it's easy to reason my choice of actions, I have time for that whilst I work (eg. now), but to go through the thread and actually scumhunt requires a lot more effort and time, that's why I left it for lunch time, in case it was not clear enough.

reV, seriously. People are not more likely to agree with you if you call them stupid every five freaking seconds.

Give some specific examples please, I'm a little oblivious with this supposed "me calling everyone stupid" accusations.

173 - Um...Yes?

The saying goes that the best defense is a good offense. If you're under suspicion, rather than trying to convince people that the reasons they suspect you are wrong, go out and make a case against someone else that is better than theirs. Sitting around and arguing tiny points about why you are Town DOES NOT HELP TOWN.

Oh you people say that now, but I frigging bet you it would've bit me in the ass later with some crap like "reV refused to post anything until he was pressured, clearly he had every intention to lurk the entire game, oh so scummy." I want to make it VERY clear EXACTLY why I played the way I played before I moved onto other things, but it seems like nobody is listening to my explanation anyways.

OK, saying this one last time to see if it gets through. reV, ahead of being a lurker and all that, the reason everyone is so angry at you is that you are acting like an asshole. Seriously man, if you want anyone to take you seriously a) contribute and b) stop being such a jerk.

Yeah no, I really need someone to explain this whole "omg you such a jerk" thing to me, I know my posts are rather arrogant, but to say I act like an asshole does not seem to make any sense to me. Or is calling things "crap" and referring to day one scumhunting "shit flinging" enough to make me an asshole? Sheesh, the bar for assholes is set rather low these days.

And I'm not raging. VgT's choice of words are somewhat upsetting but that's about it? I can tank this shit.