Author Topic: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!  (Read 101400 times)

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2010, 10:37:13 AM »
One little request to start. From now on, can people refer to Steven Stone as just Steven, and Stone Mason as just Mason? My head is starting to throb trying to figure out who's who here.

Shannon, from my interpretation Stuff was trying to take Saki's words completely literally. I wouldn't call that scummy - it's too blatant to be scummy, it's just plain derp.

I haven't seen anything to convince me away from my Gamzee vote for now. Mason and Miyamura's votes are pretty crud, aye, and of the two Mason's is undoubtedly worse, but it's hard for me to believe they're both scum doing the exact same thing. And I only count 4 votes on Gamzee right now, which is hardly a landslide.

Of all the lurkers, I'm willing to agree with Shannon that Sandor's SHUT UP ##VOTE: SHOE FOR BEING A JERK is the worst of the lot so far. We haven't heard a thing from Satoshi, though, so that's something to keep in mind.

So I'm probably at something like Gamzee > Sandor > Mason right now.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2010, 12:06:02 PM »
I'm going to put a question mark here: you say "in part"... what is the other "part" to voting Shoe?

I am unsure of what to think of Miss McDowell. How does voting for Miss Shoe change whether or not she would stay on Mr. Stone?  Could you outline your entire case on Miss Shoe please?  I apologize if I am misunderstanding your words, but you make it sound like there is more to your case than that....

The other part was that I felt like it. Though, i'm not inclined to change my vote at this juncture, in part because the new current bandwagon and the way it was formed don't look very appealing. I do not like Miyako or the Mason's bandwagoning very much either Shannon, but especially not Miyako's addition. Where is this encouragement you mentioned Gamzee gave Saki in the first place? I assume you're referring to this, but all I see is criticism of Saki for saying that she'd support Shoe if not for being so sure about her first vote, and then throwing a prod vote towards me on the very next line.

And the other part this time? I still don't like you, Shoe. Your 'scumhunting' has consisted of batting around a weak case on Stone Steven into the ground, then turning your guns full force on the first person to comment on it and not abandon their stance at the first sign of pressure. You say that "It's quite easy to see my early actions as trying to get the game moving and trying to find scum, cause guess what? That's what they WERE." I agree that you were trying to get the game moving, but i'm not so sure it was because you were trying to find scum.

Also, where's your vote on Gamzee anyway? Does the idea of being third on this bandwagon worry you if he flips town? You said it yourself how important D1 analysis is, and I feel this might be some caution on your part. Especially since it seems you've all but abandoned your case against Steven except as a reason to attack Gamzee.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2010, 01:51:51 PM »
Oh, hi foolish Evangeline. You seem to have completely changed your case on me to something even more ridiculous. May I first ask what happened to your prior allegations? Or are you trying to evade the question by making stuff up? I do indeed wonder. What's REALLY interesting is how utterly INACCURATE your current allegations are. Why, only a fool could dream up something so outlandish.

However, I am not an unreasonable kitty. I want you to prove me wrong. Link me to EVERY allegation you level against me, rather, to every point where I've committed it. It's highly doubtful you even CAN, given your propensity towards bullshit, to use a vulgar term, but on the off chance you come up with something, I'd very much like to fire a few magic missiles at it and reveal it's inaccuracy explicitly.

As for voting Gamzee, I haven't done it yet since you and Sandor BOTH need to reply before I can properly assess your probabilities of being scummy. There are several responses possible and it would be QUITE remiss of me to dismiss any possibilities at this juncture. And plus, I STILL haven't gotten a response from Steven, and I STILL haven't gotten a response from Gamzee. So, what we have is four people who haven't responded, and you're asking me why I haven't jumped on Gamzee yet? You really seem interested in painting me as scum no matter what, no matter what evidence occurs, and no matter what proof of towniness I provide.

I can't be sure if you're just stupidly close minded or very foolish scum, given how suspicious you make yourself look.

Yes, there's a lot more posted, and I'm not sure I like all of it, but I'd prefer to address these things AFTER these hanging threads have been resolved. Because within these hanging threads, a scum exists, and that scum will make themselves obvious under the dancing lights of my inquisition!

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2010, 01:59:48 PM »
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (1): Shoe
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (4): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Shannon
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Shoe and Gamzee are at L-4. About 15 1/2 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2010, 03:18:06 PM »
@Macdowell

Quote
HoW SaKi kEePs sAyInG ShE DoEsN'T LiKe sTeVe wHiLe aVoIdInG GeTtInG A FuCkIn vOtE On hIm aLl uP In hErE Is rUbBiNg mE ThE WrOnG WaY. mAn i cAn sEe iF ShE ThInGs eVaNgElInE Is wOrSe oR SoMe sHiT, bUt wHeN ShE OrIgInAlLy cAlLeD HiM OuT It sEeMeD LiKe sHe wAs jUgGlInG TwO PoTeNtIaL VoTiNg tArGeTs yEt cHoOsInG ThE OnE ShE CoUlD FoCuS On tO MoCk fPmH. iN fAcT iT eVeN sEeMs LiKe ShE's FoCuSiNg MoRe On StEvE, whHaT ThE MoThErFuCk iS Up wItH ThAt? It's wEiRd hOw sHe's dWeLlInG On sTeVe mOrE ThAn tHe pErSoN WhO ShE CuRrEnTlY HaS A VoTe oN.

The only reason why you would lynch Steven is because of blatantly bad play (which Saki has given the reasons for), and Gamzee is saying that Saki should have voted for Steven because'his vote on you was "rubbing off the wrong way."  Yet, Gamzee votes Shoe for sprouting 'fluff' and 'for thinking that 'bad play=scum", the latter of which Saki has done too.  The above paragraph feels sort of useless, and he seems sort of unsure as to what to stand on and inconsistent, almost as if he wanted to defend Steven.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2010, 05:02:22 PM »
@Saki:

Let's start from the beginning of your posts.
##VOTE: Miyako Miyamura

Third on the bandwagon is always scum. Always. FPMH

That was your first vote and one that you claim as serious because you said the following:

Fantastic Shoe. I'd be right there with you if I wasn't busy lynching the incredibly scummy Miyako. Steven Stone is now my second candidate. GJ
In case people haven't noticed HEY IT'S THE START OF DAY 1, SHITTY REASONS TO VOTE PEOPLE ARE GOOD REASONS BY THIS POINT BECAUSE IT BEATS VOTING RANDOMLY.

This isn't about any sarcasm that may or may not have been implied. You made a claim, so take responsibility for it. Specifically that you said it was not a jokevote at all.

What are you going on about Gamzee? I'm not putting down jokevotes, I explained my reason. FPMH, best reason ever. Also, third on the wagon is always scum. Always. It's not a jokevote, it's a serious vote. Not like there was any better stuff to vote at the time. I think I have better stuff right now in my ninja though.

---------------------------

Put a vote down or go down the gallows, I say, and I'd dedicate myself to the cause if I wasn't so sure that third on the wagon is always scum.

The latter half of the quote shows you're quite set on third-on-the-wagon-is-scum. Your certainty of it has been stated clearly.

Not happy with Evangeline either. Quoting Shoe and voting him for the exact same reason he votes Stone (Ha ha, old chap! BAD LOGIC) doesn't make a compelling case. Start putting in the elbow grease, woman.

##UNVOTE: Miyako
##VOTE: Evangeline


Well, at least until you can explain what about his reasoning is so bad that he must be voted, as clearly his case and your case are similar: voting people for bad reasoning. This is terrible reasoning, just a step down from bad reasoning.

So again, why would you get off your first target to park a prod vote when said first target had not posted anything to sway opinion? You voted Evangeline and then go ahead to push Steven. The way you unvote indicates that you were quite aware of who you were targeting. The vote has no pressure in the form of accusations. There's no followup pressing on her either.

Summary of what's wrong about Saki:
Claims a serious vote and tries to shake off responsibility of it.
Changes that vote for a weaker one.
No analysis to contribute as scumhunting, read her posts in isolation and it will be apparent.


Shoe's the one that raises my hackles.  That abrasiveness, that stubbornness, she's playing it up way too much to be believable.  I don't see any townie intent there, and I'm not going to believe that she's just making an ass of herself "to try and draw out scum."  Grandstanding like that is never pro-town, and I don't believe that Shoe is enough of a newbie to think it is.

##Vote: Shoe

Let's get this out the way first. Whoever's playing Shoe, it's blindingly obvious and frankly you should clearly also know better than to vote just because you don't like her playstyle.

For now, want to pressure Gamzee. And thank you for stopping the alternating capitalization. Figured it would be one of dem ROT13 dealies.
##Gamzee Makara

That's nice and all, but can we see some real reasons for jumping on the emergent wagon?

@Razeluxe: Did you post yet? This is not a post. That's just to avoid an inactivity prod.

Of all the lurkers, I'm willing to agree with Shannon that Sandor's SHUT UP ##VOTE: SHOE FOR BEING A JERK is the worst of the lot so far. We haven't heard a thing from Satoshi, though, so that's something to keep in mind.

I have trouble believing that the underlined was unintentional. What are you doing trying to hide a vote in that? The only reason it didn't show in the count was because you didn't unvote.

I'll get to other people that require effort to decipher their posts later.

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2010, 05:24:47 PM »
@StuffMan: My first vote was serious business and I can't remember purporting it to be otherwise. If nothing would've happened I'd've started lobbying for people to join me in training on Miyako for being the third on a bandwagon. Show me where I claimed it was a jokevote.

Like I said, it isn't rocket science that people change their minds. OK, I changed mind in mid-post. I didn't completely edit out all traces of this change-of-mind.

Maybe it'll get through to you this way:
Quote
Summary of what's wrong about Saki:
Claims a serious vote and tries to shake off responsibility of it.
Changes that vote for a weaker one.
No analysis to contribute as scumhunting, read her posts in isolation and it will be apparent.

- The vote was serious and I never claimed it to be otherwise. I may have been sarcastic about the FPMH, but I am completely and utterly serious when I say my vote was serious as can be. When someone jokevotes that jokevote, out of all eligible targets lands on someone who ALREADY HAS TWO JOKEVOTES, that's reason enough to put down a serious vote.
- Evangeline hopped on Shoe because of "senseless drivel". I think "putting a serious vote down without explanation" is worse than "putting a jokevote down on someone who already has two jokevotes on him". Again, this isn't rocket science. If you think that Miyako was a worthier target to keep pursuing, by all means, no one's stopping you. I just think staying on Miyako would be weaker because it sure pales to Evangeline's (and Steven's) mishaps. I wanted Evangeline to explain why she voted Shoe. She recognised this intent. Why can't you?
- Guilty as charged, I've been too busy waiting for Evangeline and seeing the Shoe crap go down without understanding why everyone takes so much issue with it.

You still haven't replied to my question: How did you arrive at the conclusion that I was sure Steven was scum?[/u][/i]

Your devotion to me feels misguided, especially as you show with Roddy's citation and misunderstanding it.

Reply to Eva in next post.

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2010, 05:33:24 PM »
The other part was that I felt like it.

So if I understand this right, you voted Shoe because you felt like it, and because you think/thought it would affect whether Shoe'd stay on Stone or not. Forgive me if I find those reasons to be really, really, really bad.

What's worse, you're now telling Shoe to vote Gamgee? What's with all these people telling others how to vote? Why would you pressure Shoe on his absent vote on Gamgee?

Vote stays. I'm not happy with that attitude.

Sandor with his one-post miracle of jumping on Shoe is still there, of course. But other people are on him so I'm content to leave him be unless he doesn't respond timely. Because so far he's pulling off the lurk and not many seem to recognise this/give it due attention.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2010, 05:51:03 PM »
I never had the conclusion of you calling Steven anything. I've only ever talked about your serious vote on Miyako, any talk of people being scummy or scum was about your stance on Miyako.

Your vote only appears stronger now that Evangeline has gone and posted badly. At the time of your switch, it was a prod vote. What part of 'Start putting in the elbow grease, woman' and 'Well, at least until you can explain...' can anyone regard as an accusation of scumminess? There is none and that's why your vote was weak.

My quote from Roddy is not a misunderstanding. Why would he put Sandor's action in the full and proper notation for voting when he can just say the same without the notation?

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2010, 05:59:36 PM »
Quote
What's worse, you're now telling Shoe to vote Gamgee? What's with all these people telling others how to vote? Why would you pressure Shoe on his absent vote on Gamgee?
I think this is a completely valid thing to do, actually. Shoe is quite aggressively pursuing Gamzee, has many great points that more then justify a vote on him, yet... holds to a rather weak case on Steven? On that note, though, I'd really like Steven to come back and participate. He posted in RVS twice and disappeared; he hasn't even voted yet. This makes Shoe keeping the vote on a little less bad, I admit.

Saki's opinion on Sandor pretty much covers it. He comes in mid-day, does a jump onto the easy wagon because "She's being too irritating for her to be town", and disappears. He also didn't comment on absolutely anything else so far, and I'm not sure if him having only one post makes that less or more bad. I wouldn't mind switching my vote to him if it looks like I can't get a Gamzee lynch today.

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2010, 06:09:29 PM »
Quote
What are you doing trying to hide a vote in that?

You're accusing him of trying to hide a vote. That seems like overreacting when he was just paraphrasing Sandor. I agree the full vote copy wasn't really necessary but I hardly see it as a sneaky hidden vote.

And I must've misunderstood. So you mean Miyako. I wasn't aware people thought "third on the bandwagon = scum" was to be applied in the full literal sense of the word, that voting third on any bandwagon is an immediate sign of scummitude that makes all else pale? Uh, if you honestly think I thought that, then sorry? That's all I can say.

As far as Evangeline, I have kept repeating I thought her apparent logic for voting was awful. Then afterwards, she reveals it is awful, not just apparently so. Sure, I could've jumped on Steven, or kept on Miyako. To what end? Steven had/has Shoe to answer to. And what was Miyako to say? "Oops"? "It was just a jokevote"? No, no matter how you wiggle, voting Evangeline was the better course of action at the time.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2010, 06:32:58 PM »
OK, here's the thing, I thought I had a lot more time to make this work, but I don't. I probably shouldn't reveal this so early but the ruse was a distraction regarding Gamzee. I was expecting some interesting reactions from Evangeline and Sandor, and I got neither. FURTHER, I was hoping to get a reaction from Gamzee, but that didn't pan out either. I honestly could care less about Steven at this point, except for the fact he's apparently gone as well. The trouble is, a lot of people have acted in a way most would perceive as subjectively scummy at this time. Rather, a lot involved.

As mentioned several times, Sandor's disappearing act is REALLY terribad, given he just hopped on a popular wagon. Honestly, I think he even held the swing vote position for a little bit, which at the very least increases his probability of being scum on the sheer basis of I know I'm town. I can't really argue that since that's information you all don't have for sure. Further I'm not sure how far along the Gamzee wasgon was at the time, so it might not be a swing vote tell, so much as pushing a bad wagon for bad reasons, which is still pretty scummy.

Evangeline has established she doesn't really care so much about scumhunting so much as lynching Shoe, which is of course also scummy. I'd say marginally less scummy than Sandor because she's at least sticking to it rather than hiding. And, I'll admit, I'm sometimes hard to deal with, though can you blame me when I have such an utterly moronic wagon on me?
(Note: Roleplay fluff, if you don't feel like reading don't bother) I mean, seriously, I was dragged into this game, and fully expected fellow participants in the game to actually try to play, but apparently you silly humans and your ridiculously overcomplex emotions got in the way of clear thought. How plebian. (End flavor)

And of course, I've said my piece on Gamzee. I'll also say at this point I have a bad feeling he's just stupid town, despite that ridiculous box I stuffed him in. The only reason I went so overdramatic is because I was expecting one of Evangaline or Sandor to react scummily, but neither of them even touched it (Sandor not even posting). We don't have a lot of time, but at this point I prefer a Sandor lynch, but will easily support a Gamzee lynch, since it would be foolish to completely ignore everything I dug up in favor of a gut feeling.

##Unvote, ##Vote Sandor

tl;dr: His vote and disappearance thereafter are scummy, especially given his position on the wagon. It reads as scum who found a highly probable mislynch (I'm really sorry I have to use that case given how subjective and ineffective I've proven it already, at least in some cases), and justified it for shitty reasons because there weren't any real ones, and expects to get away with it because obviously scum wouldn't be so silly as to go for a mislynch on playstyle disputes.

Now, non Evangaline/Sandor stuff. Stone lost a few townie points with the insubstantial jump on Gamzee's wagon. Why just "pressure?" What were your reasons for voting? Those that agree with me are NOT exempt from thinking! Also, regarding the Sandor swing vote thing, it wasn't. The Gamzee wagon was at one vote at the time, however, Sandor's reasoning still blows for the fifth vote.

It would be appreciated if Razeluxe elaborated on who he believes to be the scum on my wagon. At least three of them are VERY caseable. His choice will be enlightening.

I had a gut negative read on Shannon's post, but it's gone away now that I reread it. Stuff Man doesn't bug me, but I don't see any issues with your logic. And yes, Miss is correct, though it doesn't really matter that much.

Now, John McLane, I find it QUITE interesting you've ignored my MULTIPLE pleas to clarify the case on me, yet are still voting me. At first I thought you were sincere, but I can't be so certain of that it seems. In fact, your entire post is a waste of space, accomplishing nothing except making it look like you are here. Could you catch up with the rest of us, please, and answer the questions asked of you? I'd REALLY appreciate it. I mean, I'd hate to have to use Charm Person so early in the game.

Miyako's post kinda makes sense, but I think defenses can get decent reactions. After all, you can't cast a good spell without a few risks. And divination is a school of magic. Generally I'd consider a defense good for getting the reaction of the person receiving it and determining how they take it. Granted, with Stone at one vote, I quite agree Gamzee's defense is way off. The second paragraph is accurate, so I should clarify what I mean by defense, and that's being reporting a town read on a person. Whether you support that town read is up to you, but using some support is helpful. Attacking someone's attacker isn't generally a good idea unless their case genuinely comes with scum intent. And, finally, Miyako is right about bandwagon analysis. That's another reason I didn't vote Gamzee. I wanted to see who'd take the swing vote, but no one did.

That should cover everything I ignored, I do apologize for being so long winded, but sometimes it can't be helped if one wants to communicate! Especially someone on such a level as I am. It's hard to compress my thoughts into words I'd expect others to understand, given my massive intellect, but I'm trying my best! Hopefully this elucidates anything you all were worried about :3c.




Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2010, 08:24:25 PM »
Wait, so that hugely aggressive case was just a ruse to get reactions out of Gamzee, Sandor, and I? And despite all that you've been saying, you suddenly go "Eh, I have a bad feeling he's actually town now, but if you guys are dead set on voting him then i'll vote him too. Let me hop on Sandor since the general consensus is that he's scummy." Yeah, that stinks. You still haven't actually voted, you just said that "I'll vote for whichever one of the two has the bigger bandwagon when it comes down to the wire". And here, i'll quote you again:

Now, you know what the most reliable gauge of someone's D1 opinions are? Their vote. Holding back your vote is VERY scummy as it's hiding information about your intent.

Sandor feels scummy but you feel scummier, thus i'm sticking my vote on you. I see where people are coming from in regards to Gamzee, but I feel like those are null tells coming from his reaction to overly aggressive action towards him. It just amazes me that you would make such a big case on Gamzee and then switch to Sandor.

@Saki:

So if I understand this right, you voted Shoe because you felt like it, and because you think/thought it would affect whether Shoe'd stay on Stone or not. Forgive me if I find those reasons to be really, really, really bad.

You said it yourself: bad reasons are better than RVS. Actually, immediately after the post where I voted. :derp:

Quote
What's worse, you're now telling Shoe to vote Gamgee? What's with all these people telling others how to vote? Why would you pressure Shoe on his absent vote on Gamgee?

What the Moon Brat said. You spend multiple posts attacking a player, and I assume it's going to end with a vote. I'm not telling her how to vote, i'm waiting for Shoe gives me a good reason why she has this sudden town inclination towards Gamzee and prefers to temp-shift to Sandor instead of sticking to the case she just made.


Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2010, 08:54:44 PM »
My quote from Roddy is not a misunderstanding. Why would he put Sandor's action in the full and proper notation for voting when he can just say the same without the notation?
Because I like my aesthetics?

Alright, now Stuff is just trying way way too hard for this. Laddie, let me ask you one question here - I've been saying all this time that I haven't wanted to vote Shoe. Why would I want to hide a vote for her in plain sight rather than, you know, giving reasoning? I'd hardly be able to defend myself when the vote is right cruddin' there in the count. The attack doesn't make any sense.

Likewise, asking someone to stay consistent with their first post of the game, literally the first serious vote of the game, is just bleedin' nonsense. I'd like you to clarify why you spend so long looking for mistakes in semantics and misinterpretable statements rather than actual scummy posts.

As for Shoe...oh, what in the name of crud?
I probably shouldn't reveal this so early but the ruse was a distraction regarding Gamzee.
the gamzee ruse was a............distaction
It annoys me, but there's one weird piece of continuity - she insists that voting's what matters, and proceeds to not vote for Gamzee as part of the ruse. I'm willing to give her a derptown clear for now, but following a Gamzee lynch I REALLY want to take a closer look at her.

I'm not against a Sandor lynch at all, and I definitely wouldn't want to have anyone other than Sandor/Gamzee lynched at this late juncture, but Gamzee's convenient disappearance for the second half of the day hasn't made him look any better in my book.

Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #104 on: August 07, 2010, 09:59:03 PM »
Alright, Shoe.  Didn't talk about you much last night because your posts give me headaches.  But hey, I appreciate you keeping me in mind.  After all, it's not like I haven't said my piece for you to read, or, have you been overthinking what I've been saying, and not actually reading what I said?  Just like your stuff is way too hard for me to wrap my simple grunt head around.

Now, I've got some specific beefs with you, but I think I'll start with that lovely list you tossed at Gamgee since it'll do for what I had to say about you as well.

1. You are voting me because I called out Steven on rolefishing and railroading, where you have an alternate theory where he's just noob town, and thusly I am the one going for an easy mislynch?

Rookie, or possibly not as charismatic, they both lead to the same end.  And I wouldn't call it easyl.  Get a man looking so bad that the folks you dupe into joining you agree that it couldn't have been a terrorist mislead because they all saw how guilty the dead guy looked.  That's some impressive work, if you can pull it off.


2.  How does it go from "Shoe accuses Steven Stone of rolefishing and railroading with scum intent" to "Shoe is pushing an easy mislynch"? What is the missing link here?

Perspective.  Depending on what you are, the first is either what you believe, or what you're aiming for us to believe.  And the other is what it looks like to other people.


3.  How does this logic work with your own admittedly dubious actions of jumping on a wagon with less than stellar reasoning?

Skipping this one as I didn't wagon hop, and my reasoning isn't dubious.


4. Why am I not an easy mislynch whereas Steven is?

You very clearly know what you're doing, you press hard when you talk, and you talk a lot.


5. What makes your case on me stronger than mine on Steven?

A lot of what you had on Steve was interpreting what he said, leading his answer, and then interpreting that in a way that'd lead him further off course.

As for the rest, it's a lot of small things.  You spend a lot of words insulting and attacking the credibility of the people who question you instead of what they actually say.  You keep on using "But I know I'm not a terrorist" like it means a damn thing.  You spend a hell of a lot of time talking about game theory, expecting that to justify your actions.  And there's definately been times where the theory has been nothing more than fluff used to deflect an attack without actually saying a damn thing.

Now, I've gotta buck the trend.  I've read that Sandor guy's post, and I gotta say.  I'm not seeing where everyone's coming from on him.  Part of it may be that he's thinking same way I am, but he's out hard, and saying stuff that can be tied to him.  And, he's already been proven right about one of his observations on Shoe.  That she'd be using a blind to try and provoke reactions.  Call me crazy, but I can't see him being a terrorist.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2010, 10:22:48 PM »
Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (0): Shoe
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (4): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (2): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone
 
8 votes will lynch, so Shoe and Gamzee are at L-4. About 7 hours to go in Day 1.

Satoshi has dropped out. If I do not find a replacement by the end of the day, he will be modkilled and have his card flipped.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2010, 10:36:36 PM »
Taking some time to think about my remarks, I admit that they have been naive (and a bit careless). I apologize for my behavior and any sort of inconvenience it may have caused, and I suppose I should also apologize for my sudden disappearance. I don't expect this to have a great impression on anybody (in fact, it may serve to further implicate me), but I can at least try it.

At that point I had never believed that delaying my vote was a suspicious act, so I suppose I should try and make amends.

##Vote: Shoe

Firstly, I apologize in advance for any sort of stupidity or ignorance that you may find.

I first had my suspicions prior to my "derpy" remark, and I still have my doubts. You seem to have gone out of your way to accuse someone who directly opposed you (although both parts were done facetiously). However, you reacted rather strongly to a simple act of naiveness followed by a lack of voting (I'm obviously referring to myself, here). Assuming that you are scum, that means that I could be a (very minor) threat, while if I assume you're town, you probably have an intense hatred for stupidity, though I fail to see the benefit of voting because of stupidity. Of course, I did refuse to vote at the time, so I can see why you decided to vote me, although the reasoning is a bit weak.

In any case, you act very outspoken and stubborn, which makes it seem painstakingly obvious that you're scum, which means that you're intentionally trying to appear as scum, assuming that you know this behavior makes you suspicious. Declaring your own innocence isn't too helpful either. I can't see any reason why anyone would attempt to look like scum without some sort of malicious intent behind it, other than the case brought up earlier about trying to draw out actual scum with this behavior. I realize that I am restating Mr. Clegane's words, but his words do make some sense in this situation.

I hope there was enough stupidity in this explanation for you.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2010, 10:47:26 PM »
For a swing vote, Steven's post here stands up about as well as an Englishman after a pint of whiskey.

Why did you never bother to mention these suspicions you apparently had of Shoe before your mason comment? Did this tiny fear of Shoe being a Mason somehow paralyze you from commenting?
And as he himself admits, most of his reasoning's just regurgitated from Sandor, who a lot of people think was spewing nonsense anyway. Once again, I'm just seeing it as Shoe's player trying too hard to RP as a jerk, especially given that she's continuing it after being called out on it.

If people are using this sort of cruddy reasoning to jump on the Shoe wagon, I'm more than happy to stay on Gamzee.

Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2010, 10:51:04 PM »
Since you showed up, then perhaps you could give us something else.  Who would be the next two people you would vote for, and why?

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #109 on: August 07, 2010, 11:00:07 PM »
Backtracking a bit here, Steven...

Before your derpy remark, Shoe was engaged in the roleplay. He made a comment about people's train on Stone Mason, and then voted Sailor Moon. You, uh, had suspicion of scummitude at this stage? Then why didn't you vote him or voice these suspicions?

Your scenario of why he could be town or scum is weird at best. If Shoe is Town and hates stupidity, OK, there's a case to make for that. (see: ALL the remarks over how stupid everyone is) But if he's scum, what... what manner of threat could you possibly be from making one idle conjecture that there may be masons and that that's a good reason not to vote during RVS? I don't see why you bring up those two scenarios as Shoe jumping on you isn't really a decisive tell, unless you argue he was trying to go for the easy lynch. (in which case it horribly backfired)

How is being outspoken and stubborn "painstakingly obvious that [he] is scum"? That's a web of WIFOM you're having there. "You act so scummy it must be scum intentionally acting scummy so we'd fall for 'too scummy it can't be scum'"? I'd subscribe to "It's so scummy, he must be scum", but not to "Your overtly scum behaviour is obviously scum masquerading as obvScum". How is Shoe "painstakingly obvious[ly]" scum?


@Evangeline: I suppose you have a sort of point, but I'm still not too happy with your explanation coming THIS late into the day, and your new reasoning for voting Shoe still not being stellar. This may just be because of playstyle differences where I think Shoe's siege on Steven Stone wasn't that awful, and that his current attack on his own attackers is permissable given the entire attack on him is just nonsensical.

##UNVOTE: Evangeline

Keeping my eye on you, though.

##VOTE: Steven Stone

If that isn't Blatant Bandwagon Hopping at its finest I don't know what's what anymore. I thought Sandor was already "Wait, what?", but Steven here tries too hard.

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2010, 11:08:25 PM »
Because I'm not on-board for more of this... to iterate, I'm jumping off of Evangeline because I think Steven's a better choice at this stage. Evangeline... I can sort of understand what she means but then I don't agree with it. Willing to let it slide for now, D1, if she's scum she'll slip up later and give me reason to re-occupy her +1 Vote parking spot.

Steven just, no. I outlined him above.

Sandor is still all sorts of URGH as well, and it's either of those two by now. I just kept him back in my head at first because of Evangeline taking priority but reading back to his posts (lol), he bandwagon hops because "town would never attract such a huge profile"... right, because scum does want a lot of attention. WIFOM. Don't like it.

I wish I had two votes. I'd be voting both of them so hard, but I have to pick and Sandor already has people on him by now and Steven just takes the top by posting more WIFOM as reasoning.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2010, 11:19:22 PM »
Figured I'd catch flak for that. But you know what? I really don't care. The people who are protesting hardest are the people who also haven't an ounce of common sense, and have chosen to choose the wrong bandwagon. Even more hilarious is the involved OMGUS dearest Steven makes. I understand others are protesting but they actually see the logic, which certain people have blinded themselves to in a bid to get my head.

I'll put this out there now.

You're not lynching me today. You all might want to dumbass your way to getting me to L-whatthefuckever, but you WILL not secure my lynch. We have 6 hours to kill one of you fools, since it's manifestly obvious my wagon REEKS of scum at this point. I'm willing to call it two at this point. Honestly, I don't like the attempts to form strange counterwagons at this point. Sandor, sure, I'll accept that, we still had about 1/4th of the day left and he stinks. But all the vote hopping that isn't me, Gamzee, or Sandor stinks at this point. There are a lot of scum but day is coming to a close and we need a decision. I'm likely to switch to Gamzee if the Sandor wagon doesn't pick up. I don't think it'll end as well but I did hammer quite a few stakes into him, so I'll roll with it.

I should be able to make a final vote before the end of the day.

Either way, in the vein of the last paragraph, why are you voting off-wagon Saki? Even the Sandor wagon is stronger than the Steven wagon at this point.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2010, 11:23:53 PM »
Unfortunately, I wasn't aware that it wasn't a good thing to wait to post my suspicions or make a vote. I wanted to have a better understanding of what Shoe was doing before a clear accusation. Of course, my reasoning isn't too good either, but there's not a lot of time left and apparently it's fine to use "stupid reasons" as a basis for voting.

At Mr. McClane: Assuming you're asking me who I would vote for if I didn't vote for Shoe right now, I would have to say that Mr. Makara and Ms. Marimi are slightly suspicious, although I don't believe that both of them could be scum?only one of the two, at most. It's hard to say which one of the two is more likely to be scum, though.

Edit: Looks like I'll have to respond to Ms. Marimi here, too. First of all, I wasn't saying that Shoe was obviously scum, but that the behavior implies that she could be scum. I was assuming that Shoe knew this, which means she was intentionally acting this way, and I don't see how town can benefit from that.

Besides the facetious vote towards Sailor Moon, the only vote Shoe made was towards me, because I was being stupid and playing badly. Considering Shoe made remarks about how nearly everyone here was stupid, there would be no reason to single me out and vote based on it alone. Although I will admit that the threat comment was excessively stupid, and doesn't exactly hold water.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2010, 11:32:56 PM »
@Saki: Why did you answer for Roddy's failvote? What business do you have in defending his action? Especially now that he's gone and parroted your response, I still don't believe it was something that can just be brushed off as roleplaying or the so called aesthetics.

And I must've misunderstood. So you mean Miyako. I wasn't aware people thought "third on the bandwagon = scum" was to be applied in the full literal sense of the word, that voting third on any bandwagon is an immediate sign of scummitude that makes all else pale? Uh, if you honestly think I thought that, then sorry? That's all I can say.

Nice backtrack. You called it a serious vote and stood by it, now it's not something you're willing to retain as a reason for making a serious vote.

@Roddy: You haven't been saying that you weren't going to vote Shoe at all. She's not in your top 3, but you haven't called her anything of the townie sort either. Basically she's sitting in the bad half as far as I can see from your few posts.

Likewise, asking someone to stay consistent with their first post of the game, literally the first serious vote of the game, is just bleedin' nonsense. I'd like you to clarify why you spend so long looking for mistakes in semantics and misinterpretable statements rather than actual scummy posts.

Saki's handling of things has been scummy that's why I'm voting her. You taking up the chainsaw doesn't help.

Goddamnit you people and your post cutting. I'm a slow reader.

Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2010, 11:36:21 PM »
Finally had the time to give a good hard look over to people besides Shoe, and there's some quality stuff there.

Raze, why are you so sure there's scum on the Mason/Shoe trains?

Mason's seems odd since it was just three random votes at the start.
Shoe, on the other hand, the likeliest implication is that he's town.   Is that what you meant?  If not, why are you so sure there's scum on his train?


Stone Mason also looks way worse than Sandor.  At least Sandor came out and gave opinions about people, Mason, on the other hand, says some fluff on his random train, says silent people should talk more, and puts a vote on Gamzee to pressure her.  Why?  No damned clue.  He sure as hell didn't say why.  The closest he comes to an opinion is when he says he agrees with Shoe's logic, then tears into Shoe for a bit.

Steve, I won't touch since he looks bad, but hell if I can piece together what he is.  Maybe after he talks a bit more.

Miyako also worries me.  The two big things are her getting on Gamzee's case for defending someone, and also trying to pressure someone to vote for the person she's defending.  Seems pretty either or here.  Either she is trying to defend someone, or she is not.  Which tells me that Miyako is either seeing what she wants to see, or is making shit up.  Toss in something I notice terrorists love to do, which is trying to pressure things so that everybody is eyeing only two people.  Get two matching trains lined up, and it can be hard to get eyes off of those trains.  Which is good news for them if the two folks involved are clean, and it sounds like nice clean thinking to boot.

Now, as bad as I think Shoe looks, I'm thinking that Mason's active, and passive, lurking looks one hell of a lot worse.  So, let's put some attention on him.

##Unvote: Shoe,  ##Vote: Stone Mason

Edit: Been ninja'd will reply later.

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2010, 11:41:55 PM »
I don't generally restrict my choices based on "who is a popular target". I go for "who I think is scum". If in the last hour or two I won't get my way I'll go for who I think deserves it most AFTER my No1 suspect, but I prefer my No1 suspect. Right now, if I can't have Steven I'll have Sandor, but I'll probably not move on to either of the other wagons because hell if I agree with them.

Sandor may have started WIFOM derpton, but Steven's the one who picks the WIFOM ball, and decides it must be absolutely correct. That's severe misguided, and I can't really pass that off as "whoops naive believing what others say" because it's harmful at this point due to Easy Bandwagon HopTM.


Ninja. Stupid reasons only cut it for eD1. Evangeline's reason to jump on is still stupid, and only now has she refined it to be against Shoe's behaviour which is STILL stupid. I'm honestly having a hard time deciding who is the worst now. The more I think about it the more confused I get.

Evangeline: gets on bandwagon with DERP, stays on it with DERPFOM.
Sandor: gets on bandwagon with DERPFOM.
Steven: gets on bandwagon with Sandor's DERPFOM and AMPLIFIES it.

I still don't get why you hold WIFOM against Shoe. You can argue that Scum would act Townier than Town because it's SCUM who want to look like Town, and Town assume all their actions are Town. But you'll never know. It's not reasoning that can be analysed, scrutinised and picked apart because while it's theoretically possible, it's just not testable until a lynch, and you sort of want to lynch for solid, good reasons.

Not a "Well, he may be acting Scummy because he knows we'll rea--" not ending that. It's just too, too, TOO much "Genius Mastermind Gambit" and honestly? I don't really believe Flamboyantly Aggressive = Scum. I've acted really loud, really aggressive in past games, too, and I wasn't scum back then.

I mean, by the same token. What you're doing is really, really confusing and hard to follow. Scum knows doing those kind of things will get them scrutiny, so maybe you're scum acting incredibly derp just hoping we'll pass it off as derptown. It's impossible to defend against those kind of allegations without flipping.



@Stuffman: Because it was an absurd call on your part that Roddy supposedly hid a vote. That's just trying too hard to pretend to look at others. You're still solely focused on me mainly. All you've done is prod others a little, and raised a ridiculous accusation against Roddy based on Hyper Paranoia.

I'd think scum'd avoid "stealth voting" because it's too obvious. In the next votecount everyone'd realise if he did it right. It's just an absurd attempt to pretend you're looking at others.

And stop trying to twist the logic. It was a serious vote, but it's not a reason I'd saunter around as THE BEST REASON EVER as there are better reasons to vote people and when they arise I will use them. Third on the train = scum is better than "lol masons i won't vote".

I can't follow your train of thought in the slightest. Tunnel vision much?

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2010, 11:48:03 PM »
As much as I appreciate you jumping off me John, I dislike the fact you've jumped from one of the major bandwagons with less than 6 hours left in the day. Granted, I realize that lynch will occur no matter what, but it intrigues me you've chosen to not be on either wagon. In fact, you've effectively cast a swing vote towards lynching Gamzee, given the rules. Again, I don't mind this from a self preservation standpoint but it worries me.

If you were so worried about 'terrorists' focusing the game on two people, why did it take you so long to stop tunneling on me to look at others? Why did you wait til there was less than 12.5% of the day left to effectively try to start a new wagon? This disorganization is REALLY bugging me at this point.

@Saki-ninja: That's admirable, but it skews results. But, admittedly, having reread how the early lynches work, I'm not worried about losing the lynch as much now. What DOES bug me is this sudden outpouring of weak counterwagons rather close to the deadline, which feels in and of itself like a distraction.

Anyway, what makes John's agreeing with Sandor's logic different from Steven?

Also, is this:

Quote
I mean, by the same token. What you're doing is really, really confusing and hard to follow. Scum knows doing those kind of things will get them scrutiny, so maybe you're scum acting incredibly derp just hoping we'll pass it off as derptown. It's impossible to defend against those kind of allegations without flipping.

Directed at me?


Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #117 on: August 07, 2010, 11:57:10 PM »
I must've missed John. Urgh, the WIFOM... I forgot about this place's levels of DERP. I'll give John a look over but honestly, that just makes the Shoe train incredibly weak and I'll be utterly aghast if it pulls through, regardless of flip.

And no, that's directed at Steven.

Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #118 on: August 07, 2010, 11:58:23 PM »
Sigh, y'know Shoe.  One of the real issues I have with you is that I don't know exactly how much of my drive to vote for you is because I think you're a terrorist, and how much is just pure satisfaction at seeing you get hauled up and hung for your crap.  Because hell knows, if anyone here deserves it, it's you.  I just hope that God has mercy and you aren't Town.

That said, we still got a few good hours to go.  And enough time to turn these trains around if someone's found out.  So, I'm gonna call bullshit on your only three trains matter now.  Especially given how they seem to be two people you want dead, and one you claim doesn't have a hell of a chance to go off.


Steve, when I asked for who you'd vote for, I also asked why.  You didn't say why.


Ninja, by Shoe of all people.  Lovely.

I'll just say this.  You say six hours isn't enough time.  I say I've seen a man stop a train at L-1, and get a man at no votes lynched in fifteen minutes.  In rules that said that there would be no lynch if there wasn't majority lynch.  And I also say that Stone Mason's jack all is the worst looking thing in the field right now.  Though, if it doesn't stick, well, just like you, I've got a major train to fall back on that I just happen to agree with.

As for why it took so long, I only have so much time.  If a lot of stuff happens while I'm gone, can't help that.

Edit: Saki, why do you think that Sandor is worse than Stone Mason?  They've done the same things, but Mason was worse on every count.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 1: The Game Begins!
« Reply #119 on: August 08, 2010, 12:01:07 AM »
Quote
Sigh, y'know Shoe.  One of the real issues I have with you is that I don't know exactly how much of my drive to vote for you is because I think you're a terrorist, and how much is just pure satisfaction at seeing you get hauled up and hung for your crap.  Because hell knows, if anyone here deserves it, it's you.  I just hope that God has mercy and you aren't Town.

Cry moar.