Doctor Wars Mafia - Game Over

[Serela]

So Dan it's good that you think Raitaki is the scummiest and want to go with that, but I'm afraid it's already consolidation time (like 20 hours left in the day, and nighttime will take half of that for probably everyone in some form or another) and you have literally no case on him except "I think he's scummy" to try to convince anyone with, nor do I remember there being a significant amount of calling raitaki scummy from others (one or two people to a mild degree maybe) so

well tl;dr you should probably vote someone who might actually be lynched due to how late it is in the day

[ActionDan]

20 hours is plenty.  Also all that vote count means is that 3 people are on you and anyone can potentially be a CW.

[Serela]

motk just has issues lately with consolidating going really badly and then it's just SHENANIGAN FESTIVAL in the last few hours to deadline because of it

[Serela]

like flashwagoning 4 people in a row and then making a crappy lynch decision in the end, or being forced to lynch X because there's just no way around it anymore ;_;

[ActionDan]

9 people all votes are intrinsically worth more

[Raitaki]

@Dan: My post #31 was basically just making -anything at all- happen. It was some time after D1 started (seemed longer than 12 hours to me since I wasn't around when it started, and still too lazy to change time zone on my profile), and the game was still barely on the first post of second page, and I was angrily mashing F5 to see nothing happening, so eh.

Regarding the Serela vs. Sky_Pal thing: both still read null to me, with Serela looking slightly better. Feels like it might be town vs. town in fact. Don't feel like lynching either over Dan or DNA atm.

NNR could go either way. It looks like he's putting in effort, but his arguments are mainly pretty basic and simple (SB was twitterposting, Raikaria's fluffy wagon hop, etc.) and could be as easily typed up by scum imo. I find the amount of weight he gave SB's RVS-era blurbs weird, and an ISO of his posts kinda suggests no one but Dan, SB or Raikaria exists (and that Serela is some distant historical figure whose existence he briefly defended).

Zakeri ga shinda, someone bring him back

SB would look town to me if he didn't start a trend of vote first, explain later this game, except for the Dan vote which honestly anyone could make at this point. Which is basically saying yeah NNR does have a point.

Dan looks lynchable to me. Forgive the bias but slinking off for like the entirety of the game up til now just to have "eh looks solid but this one RVS-era post looks weird as fuck" as the case behind his vote is just insufficient.

Raikaria looks kinda like how he usually goes about early game. Uncertain.

Once agaaaiiin not enough people agree with my vote, and I think a couple even townread DNA, so I guess I should switch votes for now, especially since I don't know if I'd have transportation to arrive home before deadline tomorrow. Reading this game is mildly tough, partly because of the amount of content so far and partly because there are 4 fewer people for me to look at and for other people to interact with.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

[Raikaria]

##Unvote:
##Vote: Raikaria

This has gone from terrible to straw-grasping conspiracy theorist bad.

I'm sorry but what has been happening Day 1 the last few games is someone votes Sky for a bad reason, pushes on it, Sky takes the bait and gets himself lynched; generally by over-reacting or saying something really silly.

It's happened the last 2~3 games in a row.

It's hardly 'conspiracy theorist' when it's already happened before.

Not happy with Dan's 'content', but it is content. Also I'm a male Actiondan.

I don't like this game. Aside from Serela [Who I have said is minor] no one really stands out as really scummy to me. I *am* grasping at straws. I'll freely admit that.

[BT]

Votecount 1.6

Serela: (3) Raikaria, Zakeri, Darkninjaabc
ActionDan: (2) SB, Raitaki
Raitaki: (1) ActionDan
Raikaria: (1) NekoNekoRex
Sky_Paladin: (1) Serela

Not Voting: [1/9] Sky_Paladin

You have 14 hours and 8 minutes. 5 votes are needed for a majority.
(Countdown)

[WHMZakeri]

Also I'm a male Actiondan.

All ActionDans are Male ActionDans.

I read through the whole thread an managed to have all of the information pour out of my eyes before I could process any of it.



##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
I really don't like that he's trying to push Raikaria as scum for thinking Serela is trying to get an easy mislynch and then using the fact that Sky hasn't been mislynched yet as evidence that Raikaria is scum for his line of thinking. I'm not sure what the purpose of treating Raikaria as if he was just released from an asylum is.

Willing to lynch Dan since I usually just ignore him. Normally I'd be cursing policy lynches but time and again proves we need them to actually happen.
Honestly, I feel like NNR is just as bad as Dan, except that where Dan doesn't bother hiding it anymore and everyone knows what to look for NNR just hung back quietly and didn't bring attention to the fact.

[ActionDan]

It's a pretty bad point against Serela though zak

[Sky_Paladin]

I am back and sober.  It only took a month.  Wow. 

I have a couple of issues with what people have said today. 

NNR
I touched on NNR earlier here but I was too exhausted to format it neatly and it appears everybody ignored what I said. 

NNR made a number of posts since then so I'm going to omnislash them up. 
Preliminary case against SB. 
Backstory:  NNR voted for SB because of SB's rvs vote.  This prompted SB to countervote with 'defending his scumbuddy (Serela)'. 

NNR

Granted these are RVS reasons for a vote but it was a serious RVS vote.
Then you OMGUS'd me when there was no indication I was even defending Serela.

This is simply a misrep. 
What does 'it was a serious RVS vote' even mean?  It's either random, or it's serious.  I'm not trying to split hairs here, it just seems like an illogical thing to say. 
The misrep part is that NNR is disassociating his defence of Serela.  NNR, you voted SB because of his vote on Serela.  That is the very definition of defending. 

Also, why are we lynching Serela again?

  More 'not defending' Serela? 

Apparently people think I'm still defending Serela (I haven't even said anything about Serela herself the entire fucking game), which is hilarious.

Up to this point, only SB said NNR had been defending Serela.  That is hardly 'everybody', but NNR is feeling...something...enough to want to complain that everybody is doing it. 

NNR not mentioning Serela some more -

Why are people voting him, exactly? Because he's trying to stick to a shitty vote and even improve on it later, even after people are telling her it's a dumb vote? I think that just looks like an idiot townie.
Scum would have switched off a vote that town didn't like by now, but Serela's been sticking to her guns. Looks townie enough to me.

NNR is chainsaw defending/suppressing votes.  He is doing this by saying that Serela is an idiot and therefore we shouldn't consider the motive behind her posts for determining her scum intent.  That's exactly the opposite of what we should be doing.  'Scum would have switched'... is WIFIOM.  Bad argument in defense of a bad argument and a bad vote.  Red alert. 

For the record, we lynch players who tunnel others because tunneling - refusing to consider any other player - is scummy.  It's a tactic to fake towny-looking effort. 

Then we get a push from NNR on Raikaria - an attempt to sway the lynch? 

More vote suppression defence of Serela. 

Taking his most worthless post and quoting it isn't really doing anyone justice, but I digress.

 
This is a blatant misrep of SB.  Serela had not posted anything of merit at this stage.  You are welcome to go and find the post to dispute this fact.  Tip:  You won't find one.  I know this because I looked when I was making my case against Serela.  NNR apparently didn't check.  Why? 

Then more defence of Serela etc etc uses sarcasm to goad SB into a vote on Raikaria. 

NNR
Vote suppression on Raikaria. 

Raikaria sounds like he doesn't even really know why he's voting Serela, except that he can't think of anyone better. Sounds like the conviction a real pro town would have, I'm sure.

It's scummy because NNR isn't making a case on Raikaria.  He's trying to insinuate that Raikaria must be scum because he is voting Serela.  Note that NNR also chose to pursue SB because of his vote on Serela.  SB vote switches to ActionDan, Raikaria doesn't.  Guess who gets NNR's vote?  Yep, it's Raikaria. 

For somebody who insists they aren't defending Serela, well...all your posts are defending Serela or suppressing the people who are voting for her. 

***

I'm voting NNR for chainsaw defending of Serela, vote suppression tactics, attempts to silence criticism of Serela, and indirect buddying.  I don't agree with his case on Raikaria because it seems to rely on begging the victim rather than actual logic and analysis of posts. 

##vote NekoNekoRex

I'm voting NNR over Serela because in my experience the defender is usually scum rather than the defendee. 

I will be afk for hammer unless I wake up crazy early, which could happen.  I actually wanted to put a case on DNA as well but I am out of time; and I would happily lynch a male ActionDan since his performance has not really improved. 

[DNAbc]

you should work to make stuff more palatable if you are making a genuine attempt to be understood. that said its still something i need to work on myself so lol

[DNAbc]

and since i haven't heard any further arguments against me at the moment i am going to case raitaki.

heres what raitaki did to me
-he started the attack on my bad case
-came to conclusion of bad play=scummy
-i told everyone this is d1 and right out of rvs
-raitaki drops case on me, jumps to dan
-leaves a remark i think some people are townreading DNA even so i will drop this atm

ok, so now we have all these. why is raitaki scum? because he was opportunistic for wagons and ignorant of gamestate, both of which defining scum traits.

for opportunistic, raitaki jumped hurriedly onto me, as per tradition of motk to lynch wordy players d1 because less material=higher chance wordy people piss people off by saying wrong stuff. after raitaki was met with the aforementioned rebuttal, he quickly retracted his attack even and latched onto dan with a vote park.

for inaware of game state, raitaki caught my eye with this segment of this post,

@Dan: My post #31 was basically just making -anything at all- happen. It was some time after D1 started (seemed longer than 12 hours to me since I wasn't around when it started, and still too lazy to change time zone on my profile), and the game was still barely on the first post of second page, and I was angrily mashing F5 to see nothing happening, so eh.

Regarding the Serela vs. Sky_Pal thing: both still read null to me, with Serela looking slightly better. Feels like it might be town vs. town in fact. Don't feel like lynching either over Dan or DNA atm.

NNR could go either way. It looks like he's putting in effort, but his arguments are mainly pretty basic and simple (SB was twitterposting, Raikaria's fluffy wagon hop, etc.) and could be as easily typed up by scum imo. I find the amount of weight he gave SB's RVS-era blurbs weird, and an ISO of his posts kinda suggests no one but Dan, SB or Raikaria exists (and that Serela is some distant historical figure whose existence he briefly defended).

Zakeri ga shinda, someone bring him back

SB would look town to me if he didn't start a trend of vote first, explain later this game, except for the Dan vote which honestly anyone could make at this point. Which is basically saying yeah NNR does have a point.

Dan looks lynchable to me. Forgive the bias but slinking off for like the entirety of the game up til now just to have "eh looks solid but this one RVS-era post looks weird as fuck" as the case behind his vote is just insufficient.

Raikaria looks kinda like how he usually goes about early game. Uncertain.

Once agaaaiiin not enough people agree with my vote, and I think a couple even townread DNA, so I guess I should switch votes for now, especially since I don't know if I'd have transportation to arrive home before deadline tomorrow. Reading this game is mildly tough, partly because of the amount of content so far and partly because there are 4 fewer people for me to look at and for other people to interact with.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

this bolded segment is pure distilled tunneling and wagon hopping, both of which are what raitaki accused his 'scumreads' for. moreover, the only people explicitly pointing out that they read me as strong town was Dan. now given raitaki is apparently aiming to gun dan, him ignorant of such an unpopular opinion made by dan is clear proof that he hasnt been paying attention to his lynches, another defining trait of scums. in fact if you were the people being called out on by raitaki you would notice his so called 'accusations' are vague and ambiguous enough that they only conclude your general behavior, or sometimes are even completely off the mark (like saying many people townread  DNA when in reality its only dan, raitaki's scumread)

##Unvote
##Vote:Raitaki
mb we should lynch him instead of consolidating on people, especially since dan did actually make an effort to play

[ActionDan]

I'd agree in general though I could have sworn some people were giving you mild town reads

[DNAbc]

really? i will need to reread the rhread, but in all honesty i dont recall people giving me town reads lol

[Serela]

It depends at which part of the thread we're talking about, I knew it happened at some points but it might have been after that. That being said I keep getting assigned earlier shifts lately and sleeping in is sooooo gooooood so I have to consolidate and leave. Deadline is a few minutes after my work shift ends so yeah.

There's two on Dan, NNR, and Raitaki (and for everyone who's wondering, my wagon is down to 1 now). I'm not really feeling the Raitaki lynch. :T While I'm there, about DNA's case against him

-i told everyone this is d1 and right out of rvs

TBH this is kind of justification for Raitaki's case being what it is, because on d1 you don't -have- anything to go on but this kind of shenanigans yet. And if people actually were townreading you at that point in time then your arguments against him don't add up to much; the deadline hop thing is legit consolidation, although you might have a point with the tunneling part since I don't remember Raitaki's posts super well after just getting out of bed. That being said I could see town!dna having this reaction and the amount of people townreading him -now- seems to be increasing so I probably shouldn't worry about it this much when I kind of need to vote and leave soon

Okay so that's Dan or NNR
Dan is actually (kind of?) sheeping NNR's sb read that I thought was weird, and NNR's been putting in effort and pushing things pretty well etc, which in general means even if he's scum we should hopefully be able to tell even easier later, I'd rather lynch Dan than that not to mention Dan's vote in the catchup post is "Well I don't like Raitaki's face even though it's pretty solid" during consolidation time, even though he actually has more solid stuff against other people

and well I could keep going on but I'm sleepy and might not be explaining things very well anyway, and I need to eat breakfast before I have no time to do so before work

[Serela]

OH WAIT I NEED TO ACTUALLY VOTE
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan

[NekoNekoRex]

##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
I really don't like that he's trying to push Raikaria as scum for thinking Serela is trying to get an easy mislynch and then using the fact that Sky hasn't been mislynched yet as evidence that Raikaria is scum for his line of thinking. I'm not sure what the purpose of treating Raikaria as if he was just released from an asylum is.

Willing to lynch Dan since I usually just ignore him. Normally I'd be cursing policy lynches but time and again proves we need them to actually happen.
Honestly, I feel like NNR is just as bad as Dan, except that where Dan doesn't bother hiding it anymore and everyone knows what to look for NNR just hung back quietly and didn't bring attention to the fact.

Me?!?
This is all wrong.
I think Raikaria is scum for doing an obvious wagon hop onto Serela. He doesn't even sound serious about the vote till much later (which he admits), then he admits it's partially based off policy (even worse), and now he's just making stuff up to convict Serela based on events which haven't happened yet. Using meta (the worst crime of all).
Also, I have to sleep, you know. I can't watch this thread all hours of the bloody night.

[NekoNekoRex]

Fine, if we're going to play this game,  then Dan makes a good enough lynch for me, anyway.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

I think people are forgetting the that to lurk I need to actually be reading the thread.

[NekoNekoRex]

That's L-1 btw

[DNAbc]

you dont put ppl at l1 without wanting to end the day, retract your vote like now ty

[ActionDan]

Sigh.  I'm a conformable pr.  Also I'm doctor von DOOOOOOOOM.

[ActionDan]

And by confirmable I mean the friendly neighbor kind of confirmable

[NekoNekoRex]

##Unvote
Fine, I didn't even think it was L-1 until I looked.

Anyway, Skypal's vote on me is what baffles me the most.

I'm voting NNR over Serela because in my experience the defender is usually scum rather than the defendee. 

This makes no sense to me. None whatsoever.
Look, I'm defending Serela because there are scummier players, and Serela in turn is just an idiot townie in comparison. Not because I'm putting Serela off the hunt-list, but because there are worse to lynch.
Second, defending isn't even indicative of alignment unless Serela actually flips scum, and even then I'm just a townie trying to get people to vote someone I think is worse. If that's 'vote suppression' or whatever fancy term you want to call it, fine.
Defending in itself isn't even that bad unless the player obviously has ulterior motives in doing so (like if the defendee is a scumbuddy) so I don't see the problem.

It's scummy because NNR isn't making a case on Raikaria.  He's trying to insinuate that Raikaria must be scum because he is voting Serela.  Note that NNR also chose to pursue SB because of his vote on Serela.  SB vote switches to ActionDan, Raikaria doesn't.  Guess who gets NNR's vote?  Yep, it's Raikaria. 

First off, Rikaria is scum because he is voting in a horribly lazy way, and being waffly about it, and making poor arguments. Second, both Raikaria AND SB are scummy, and I'm not done with SB by any stretch, so you're just plain misguided. Third, they're acting like scumbuddies together anyway, since SB is blatantly ignoring any scummy behavior from Raikaria. So I have plenty of reason to be voting one or the other.

[NekoNekoRex]

##Vote: Raikaria Okay, sure, I'd like to be masons with Dan.

I'm sorry but what has been happening Day 1 the last few games is someone votes Sky for a bad reason, pushes on it, Sky takes the bait and gets himself lynched; generally by over-reacting or saying something really silly.

It's happened the last 2~3 games in a row.

It's hardly 'conspiracy theorist' when it's already happened before.

Not happy with Dan's 'content', but it is content. Also I'm a male Actiondan.

I don't like this game. Aside from Serela [Who I have said is minor] no one really stands out as really scummy to me. I *am* grasping at straws. I'll freely admit that.

Actually, yeah, nothing here convinces me that he's town. Scum by default have a harder time scumhunting, and this is a classic case of such.

[NekoNekoRex]

Although last time I saw that claim it was cult, but I don't think BT is that much of an idiot to put cult in a small game.

[DNAbc]

I don't have the energy to quantify the reasons why I am scumreading NNR but I am scumreading him, with my gut.

[SB]

Skimmed the thread. See votes on Raitaki and NNR and I'd really rather not vote that way. Would prefer to go DNA, with Raikaria as a backup. Gonna read more in depth now.

[SB]

ugh tbh i'm not motivated enough to make a big post now, sorry guys

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

There's more of a chance of this going through than DNA.

[DNAbc]

SB, why do you want to lynch me? Provided that you believe I am scum, why am I scum? Elaborate please.