Doctor Wars Mafia - Game Over

[NekoNekoRex]

Where's Serela's scum intent? A terrible vote isn't a sole reason to lynch someone.

[NekoNekoRex]

Riakaria openly admitted he likes voting Serela off policy, and you're defending him as town because of tone.

Good job.

[SB]

By "lots of posts" you mean this:

I won in full lylo twice!

Admittedly one time I was trying really, really hard to lynch the person who wasn't scum.

Also Raikaria my case has kind of expanded past that you know :C

which there really isn't anything to say about, and a proddodge (since I last really replied to Serela.) That isn't a lot of posts.

Serela's scum intent in pushing a terrible vote like that is because it blatantly reeks of trying to mislynch Sky.

I agree with your point that Raikaria's vote is bad but I'm not gonna ignore that I don't feel like he's mafia, so shrug.

[Raikaria]

Also, why are we lynching Serela again?

Bad initial reasoning for his vote, followed up by more bad reasoning to push the vote through, combined with the 'Serela LYLO' meta that I kinda want to avoid.

At least, that's why I think Serela should be lynched.

That and as I said before, no-one else really seems too scummy, although I've not that that much time to read. I'll do so later. I kinda have an exam tomorrow which I'm prepping for atm.

-Double Cut-

Scum intent I am not sure about, other than the fact that Serela's bad votes are on Sky who has been the general 'Day 1 easy lynch'. So, yeah using that might be Serela trying to get an easy mislynch.

--double cut again--

Part of my reason is Serela's meta to screwing over the town when he is alive. The other part is his actual actions.

[DNAbc]

I went for 3 or 4 hrs and suddenly theres a pile of activity. Okay.

Sure. My problem with your case was you basically voted Sky_Pal for following through on something he said he wanted to do outside of the game. Unless we're talking about something downright bad like "I wanna act like all of D1 is RVS every time" I don't see how that makes him scummy. I don't even know what the "intentional obliviousness of known player behavior" part was about, if someone's a known lurker and they haven't shown any signs otherwise what's wrong with voting them for lurking?
Also, you did the thing you accused Sky_Pal of (pointless filler stuff that pretends to contribute but not really) with that useless blurb about Dan.

I don't think you have been following what Sky P did, as he has just told us, Sky P himself voted for Dan with a poorly explained reasoning behind of which I find obvious errors. As such I cited the error I noticed (Dan lurks anyway) and poked Sky P in an attempt to kick us out of RVS if it wasn't obvious enough already. As Sky P has already ninja'd me in his big wallpost, I believe it is better to come up with a mediocre case that can actually facilitate discussion and participation as opposed to standing on the sidelines poking at the unresponsive lurkers, it is just a massive waste of time, and I don't like wasting time.

And Raitaki if you don't know anything about why lurkers are bad for the game because their alignment cannot be discerned due to lack of material, and known lurkers have even less of a reasoning to lurk because it has been a known town detrimental game trend for years now, you must not have played any mafia before. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like the case here. So I am assuming you are just smacking us with a massive 'fuck this i am too stupid i don't comprehend anything let me just vote someone to look contributive' card on the face.

tldr lurkers are bad for town, known lurkers lurking is even worse, D1 gives us a really cheap and convenient lynch to dispose tumors in the game so why not use it for the betterment of town?

so my blurb was actually not useless lol because it expresses my distaste for lurkers, show that I am willing to consolidate lynch Dan and provides proof to the argument against Sky P that Sky P is deliberately overlooking known player trends which Sky P complained specifically about, hence scum behavior.

tbh i am really tempted to vote raitaki now, hes just playing coy to get by, and as people have said it already, bad cases do not equate to scummy player. if that is the meta here raikaria would be lynched every time since D1, as opposed to most of the time. (lol)
---------
Anyway
 
Serela lynch is always supported, while i just made fun of raikaria literally a sentence ago, I do agree with him this time that stats give us a really good reasoning anytime to shoot Serela in the face. Because D1 lynches are generally harmless and gives us a convenient option to not deal with troublesome players whose play are detrimental to town either way, so yeah.

----
For the people who can't really bother to parse shit and walls of text this is a simplified version of what i did;

-my case is bad and i know it, i was just kicking us out of rvs
-raitaki is just playing stupid and i want to lynch him because thats scummy
-i can lynch dan because he lurks and its D1
-i can lynch serela because he loses games and its D1
-i expressed my hate for troublesome players and why we should revolutionize the meta and deal with them asap

cut by 2

[DNAbc]

ok so i noticed a bunch of grammatical errors and wrong vocabulary choices that may seem confusing but sry i am sleepy and hopefully you still get the gist of my message mmmkay bye

[SB]

Meh.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

It's been over 48 hours and he's done basically nothing. I don't expect Dan to be a bastion of activity but he's contributed absolutely nothing to the gamestate and as town I feel he would've at least done something.

[NekoNekoRex]

Policy lynching or not, I always gun for players I feel are totes scum.

By "lots of posts" you mean this:

which there really isn't anything to say about, and a proddodge (since I last really replied to Serela.) That isn't a lot of posts.

Taking his most worthless post and quoting it isn't really doing anyone justice, but I digress.

Serela's scum intent in pushing a terrible vote like that is because it blatantly reeks of trying to mislynch Sky.

Oh yeah, sure is scummy for trying (and struggling) to push a case that nobody else is buying.  Totes scum. Maybe I should counter that Serela doesn't have a scummy tone? If we're all gonna be hypocrites here.
You're basically arguing that because he has a shitty vote, his scum intent is that his vote is really bad.

I agree with your point that Raikaria's vote is bad but I'm not gonna ignore that I don't feel like he's mafia, so shrug.

So wolfy.
"I am pushing someone who has a legit terrible vote, but when presented with someone else who has an equally terrible legit scummy vote, I am going to say I'm not ignoring it, but really I'm ignoring it for tone."

[NekoNekoRex]

Bad initial reasoning for his vote, followed up by more bad reasoning to push the vote through, combined with the 'Serela LYLO' meta that I kinda want to avoid.

At least, that's why I think Serela should be lynched.

That and as I said before, no-one else really seems too scummy, although I've not that that much time to read. I'll do so later. I kinda have an exam tomorrow which I'm prepping for atm.

-Double Cut-

Scum intent I am not sure about, other than the fact that Serela's bad votes are on Sky who has been the general 'Day 1 easy lynch'. So, yeah using that might be Serela trying to get an easy mislynch.

--double cut again--

Part of my reason is Serela's meta to screwing over the town when he is alive. The other part is his actual actions.

Raikaria sounds like he doesn't even really know why he's voting Serela, except that he can't think of anyone better. Sounds like the conviction a real pro town would have, I'm sure.

[SB]

Taking his most worthless post and quoting it isn't really doing anyone justice, but I digress.

This was in response to your #89 saying Serela has "all these posts" when he really didn't.

Oh yeah, sure is scummy for trying (and struggling) to push a case that nobody else is buying.  Totes scum. Maybe I should counter that Serela doesn't have a scummy tone? If we're all gonna be hypocrites here.

Um. What does the fact that nobody else is buying the case have to do with anything? And my reads don't have to match yours, so I don't even get what you're trying to say here.

You're basically arguing that because he has a shitty vote, his scum intent is that his vote is really bad.
So wolfy.

Considering that I can't see how he could come out with a vote like that from a town mindset, pretty much?

"I am pushing someone who has a legit terrible vote, but when presented with someone else who has an equally terrible legit scummy vote, I am going to say I'm not ignoring it, but really I'm ignoring it for tone."

yeah pretty much, fite me

[DNAbc]

did i just get beautfifully ignored and sb placed a random gut vote

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

I don't feel comfortable lynching a lurker over someone who has a clear track record of losing games, far as policy lynches go, I prioritize Serela.

[SB]

I'd rather lynch a complete non-player at this junction than someone who's mildly scummy but hasn't been around due to Actual Reasons(?) as far as I can tell. Town Dan isn't someone who expect to post heaps of content but last game he did nothing and turned out to be scum, and this was true for a couple of other games too (Defcon and idolmaster iirc?) so I'd rather not get fucked over just because half of the scumteam has decided that posting is stupid, in the case of scum!Dan.

All of this "Serela loses games" crap should probably stop. If you think he's scum for actual content vote him but if you're arguing that he's a detriment to his wincon I'm sorry but that's a bad reason and honestly I'd consider Serela one of the better players in this game (don't mean to offend anyone, but a lot of the game lurks or gets mislynched early a lot, so you could argue pretty much anyone as a policy lynch if you tried to spin it in a certain light.)

NNR is making me want to reconsider my Raikaria read, so meh. Starting to read DNA as scum over Serela just because that last post looks heavily opportunistic.

[SB]

Wait did DNA just make a wallpost saying why lynching lurkers D1 is a good idea and then call my Dan vote dumb? Yeah I'm good with lynching DNA over Serela now I think.

[BT]

Votecount 1.5

Serela: (3) Raikaria, Zakeri, Darkninjaabc
Sky_Paladin: (1) Serela
ActionDan: (1) SB
Darkninjaabc: (1) Raitaki
SB: (1) NekoNekoRex
Raikaria: (1) ActionDan

Not Voting: [1/9] Sky_Paladin

You have 1 day, 3 hours and 34 minutes left. 5 votes are needed for a majority.
(Countdown)

[SB]

@Mod, Are there prods in this game?

[Raikaria]

Eeh; let's make a list:

1: Raikaria - MEEEE! I'm not putting in as much *effort* as usual because exams. Sorry. But I'm the towns. Trust me.

2: Actiondan - Non-existent Lurkscum. Only post of any interest whatsoever, which also happens to be his only post with more than one line except a vote line, falls into suspiciously specific denial territory; especially as Serela didn't come across to me as trying specifically to defend Actiondan as much as argue against Sky to further his 'case'.

Serela is only defending me because I got her the best cake.

I don't have any reads just yet.

Would lynch.

3: NNR - I am of good opinion of NNR, Generally when NNR puts in this kind of effort he's town.

4: Raitaki - Worryingly absent compared to normal. Don't *really* like his vote reason for DNA. Don't like him asking me to respond to Serela's other posts either, I didn't address them because they didn't change my opinion really, if anything his 'justifications' made my opinion worse.

5 - Serela - Still don't like him. He made a bad case on Sky, and then when pressed on it I don't like his justification. Throw in Actiondan's SSD, and you have a pretty good lynch, especially when combined with the fact... it's Serela. Also, I've yet to see anyone actually say anything to redeem Serela's content in my eyes. Including Serela. Like, NNR asking about scum intent. It's to get a mislynch on the current 'Easy target' who's been D1 mislynched a lot recently. What's the town intent of his bad vote?

6 - Sky - Kinda null to me, despite his amount of content. I don't think he's scummy but nothing really comes off as really really town either.

7 - SB - Don't like his random terminology he uses on occasion, but otherwise fine.

8 - Zakeri - Comes across pretty null, but others have said they are reading him town.

9 - DNA - I'm not 'null' on him, but I'm kinda torn. On one hand I don't like his Sky Paladin vote. I don't like that he seems to be agreeing on my Serela vote because of Serela's play history rather than what Serela's actions are.On the other hand, he does seem to be putting in legitimate town effort.

Right now I'd lynch Dan and Serela [Serela first]. Wouldn't lynch SB or NNR at all. DNA could very quickly swing either way.

[ActionDan]

Ok now I'm active lurking.

I have one town read.  I guess. 

You'll get a more substantial post in 4 hours

[BT]

@Mod, Are there prods in this game?

I haven't been paying that much attention since it's a 9 player game. I'll prod repeat offenders at later stages.

[SB]

dan just post what you have now seriously

[Raitaki]

What SB just said to DNA. If town should lynch lurkers, why does the fact Dan lurks as both factions make a lynch on him any worse?

And Raitaki if you don't know anything about why lurkers are bad for the game because their alignment cannot be discerned due to lack of material, and known lurkers have even less of a reasoning to lurk because it has been a known town detrimental game trend for years now, you must not have played any mafia before. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like the case here. So I am assuming you are just smacking us with a massive 'fuck this i am too stupid i don't comprehend anything let me just vote someone to look contributive' card on the face.

Uh, yes, I know lurkers make the game hard to read, that's why I said there was nothing wrong with voting one :I I really don't get what you're trying to do here, except pulling the "I'm gonna post a confusing mess so I can insult someone" card in my face.

Also that blurb wasn't your dislike of lurkers at all. It was "I hate lurkers but Dan always lurks so there's no point". No who is scum, no who do I want to lynch, nothing. Back to same spot, etc. Also you're acting like the fact someone always lurks is a defense against voting them for lurking or something. It's not.

It's also hilarious how after me and SB poked DNA he started going I can lynch Dan this I can lynch Dan that and still maintain Sky_Pal was scummy for voting him.

In fact, if you admit your SP vote was bad and designed to get out of RVS, now that you have another scumread why is your vote still on SP?

I know I'm kinda tunneling, but it's inconvenient to read multiple people at once on phone so that'll come later

[SB]

9 - DNA - I'm not 'null' on him, but I'm kinda torn. On one hand I don't like his Sky Paladin vote. I don't like that he seems to be agreeing on my Serela vote because of Serela's play history rather than what Serela's actions are.On the other hand, he does seem to be putting in legitimate town effort.

isn't this literally your case

screw you i'm townreading the other rai now >:

[Raikaria]

My case is Serela's vote on Sky and the fact he's sticking to it and 'reinforceing' it with still bad reasons.

The meta thing is secondary, yet it seems to be the only thing DNA is voting Serela for.

[Raikaria]

Also I might bring up the 'Serela may be sticking with his bad case to provoke Sky into saying something that gets himself lynched' thing which happens every game recently.

[Raitaki]

Okay nvm, DNA voted Serela instead, so I'll take back the point about him keeping vote on SP. I think voting someone for their track record of being in LyLos where town lost is a bad reason, but I guess that's not inherently scummy in itself.

[Serela]

continued to vote even when reason for vote was disproved.  Scummy because fake intent, vote parking,

Excuse me, when was my reason for voting you disproved? The "didn't jokevote in rvs" thing may have been but obviously that wasn't very solid of anything in the first place, and in the post I made following I kind of expanded into actual reasons. Fake intent whaaaaaa, did you seriously just accuse me of that? Okay now I actually Really Want You Lynched.

You just voted and retroactively justified!

Uh. Are you blaming me for only having legitimate justification for LITERALLY THE FIRST NOT-RANDOM VOTE IN THE GAME after I made it? Really?

SkyPal actually has literally no opinions on the game apart from me being scum and a sidecomment that DNA has town intent in his posts even if they're bad. Dan is basically a votepark over Dan's meta (although I'd say that's moreso null than scummy, given Dan's meta is really bad and he deserves to get some pressure) except, wait, uh. SkyPal is saying he'd much rather lynch Dan than me, because Dan doesn't contribute. But since Dan isn't contributing, he's going to... unvote Dan... and FoS me while empty unvoted... even though he'd much, much rather lynch Dan then me. This makes no sense. He's cheerleading my lynch on whilst empty unvoting away from the person he'd MUCH rather have lynched. This would make sense if he actually needed to use my vote on me, but, uh, he's empty unvoted, so this is horrible.

Anyway as a side-comment, about me not doing other things already, nothing interesting really happened (apart from the ones I was directly related in already) until after I went to bed last night. If you went through this slot-by-slot the same would be mostly applicable to the vast majority of the players at that point in time.

Okaaaay time to catch up with everything else and use the Real Content Has Appeared to see about other reads.

We'll see what happens about Dan when he posts, which theoretically should be not too long. Lurking this much up to now is less typical of town!dan than scum!dan, but within reason; that being said I'd be saying "I'd be fine with settling for a dan lynch" if he hadn't posted the alert of giving a substantial post soon, so take that as you will!

I wasn't against DNA but then I saw SB's 102 and "...huh" and maybe a DNA lynch wouldn't be so bad. Raitaki for the most part seems pretty reasonable and fine to me. NNR... uhm, he's doing effort and stuff and that's good but apart from not wanting to lynch me his opinion of the game feels very foreign and strange. I'm not entirely sure what this is supposed to mean in terms of his alignment since I could argue it either way >_>; I think that's all my noteworthy opinions. Maybe I should look into the Raikaria case more, but I'm not really feeling anything worth bringing up in Raikaria land.

tl;dr skypal lynch is best idea (but I have a feeling no one will support me as usual :C This is kind of the story of my mafia life) Dan depends on his upcoming post and having to consolidate onto DNA would be okay with me

Wow that votecount was depressing ;_; Also I'm not going to be around in the last several hours before deadline, but I'll be here like 6 hours beforehand so. (also for the next few hours right now of course, but)

[Serela]

oh oops it's pretty unclear

the quoted bits are from skypal

[NekoNekoRex]

Also I might bring up the 'Serela may be sticking with his bad case to provoke Sky into saying something that gets himself lynched' thing which happens every game recently.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Raikaria

This has gone from terrible to straw-grasping conspiracy theorist bad.

[NekoNekoRex]

"So, if this thing happens, which may not actually happen, and hasn't happened yet. Consider that, if that thing DOES happen, Serela might be scum."

This is Raikaria right now.

[ActionDan]

I got to page 4. well I have some opinions.  they may change as I read this page. standby

[ActionDan]

Ok well I really shouldn't say this but I really think NNR/DNA are very strong town here, NNR a little more so. 

Scum reads are SB/Raitaki (and yes the above sentence is connected).

I still can't get over how out of place post #31 was. Yes it looks like early whatever herpaderp flim flam compared to the 10000 walls over the last 3 pages but it looks sooooo contrived. 

To continue with Raitaki specifically I think his later content feels like he's "running with it" with the DNA suspicion.  His posts look pretty solid constructed etc. but I dunno.  This is kind of limited to an opinion because there's nothing really to question.

As for SB I would c/p most of NNR's posts but also I think his publishing his reads with hints about their projection and small changes is awkward taken all together.  He is voting me now for example which doesn't particularly jive with the concern about deciding which of Serela/DNA is the better vote.

The only other person I have much of a concern with is Raikaria for questionable consistency and half baked opinions throughout her posts. but uhhh, not super problematic atm.

##unvote
##Vote Raitaki

Because post #31 really really doesn't sit well with me