Medaka Box Mafia - Night 4

[Bardiche]

Dan:
There really isn't much to say about Dan. Throughout Day 1 he kept his option open on CF7, whereas he never expounds much aside from saying "stumbles around". Instead, Dan keeps his vote on Zakeri the entire game over the reasons in the previous post linked, and only swaps to CF7 after Dr Rawr's put down the hammer. In fact, five minutes later which just seems very weird "look, I'm also on this wagon" behaviour when factually he only gave tacit approval for it while lurking hard through Day 1 without any case-making that wasn't grounded in RVS shit.

His Sky Pal vote comes unexplained and apart from numerous one-liners Dan doesn't do any scumhunting. In fact, Dan's contributions are incredibly limited.

I honestly think he's scummy for never doing anything and lurking mega-hard. Would want to see dead for extreme lack of effort and maximum lurking/coasting. This could be Town!Dan signing up to games he doesn't have time to play, but I think it's likely enough that it's Scum!Dan signing up to a game he doesn't have time for and adding in some extra no-effort posts when he does post.


Sacchi:
Avoids CF7 wagon Day 1, then spends Day 2 hopping from Sky Paladin to O4rfish. There just isn't much content. It's like there's little content period in this game, which is absurd given 26 pages. I do dislike this post where Sacchi admits to believing in Sky Pal's VT claim, but keeping the vote there regardless, and saying she wants the Day to last as long as possible for more scum hunting. I don't buy that a Townie who grows less confident in their chosen wagon would not re-evaluate the options and actually look for other stuff. When Sacchi does, it's a hop onto O4rfish. I think the reasoning here is really lazy as before that time Sacchi didn't mention O4rfish much (or Kingault) and the voteswitch is accompanied by:

O4rfish has seriously not done anything significant to making people think he's a townie,

Which is hunting for lack of Town behaviour rather than hunting for presence of scum-motivated behaviour.


Zakeri:
I still don't like this post. Top scumreads in order, he picks the third, with a reason that's basically void the moment Serela develops scumreads. I also don't like this post for the following line:

I kind of avoided giving an opinion about Sky considering people are already deciding scum wouldn't claim Vanilla town even if he was one.

And then he proceeds to continue avoiding giving an opinion about it.  Obviously the first line here is him admitting to being scum who can't stand writing walls, lynch pls.


Out of these three I'd lynch Dan>Zakeri>Sacchi, but I feel like I should read BT/SB again. Slowly starting to look like everyone is Scum, but I believe in Shadoweh at least. I just can't see her doing anything untoward to people during the night except maybe send angry glares.

[Bardiche]

Zakeri before Sacchi because GUT!!, but I'm honestly not sure where I'd place them.

Everyone is scum. Some are green-coloured scum. But they're all scum.

Where is my vig.

[SB]

I wish the new post button would like, not skip all of the other posts I hadn't read.

Um, yes, voting people who are doing basically nothing worth anything at all, is a completely legit course of action.

It's also completely hypocritical, considering that you hadn't done anything yourself.

What? Are you being serious here? I can't even understand how you can -seriously- come to this conclusion. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this though, because it's fairly meta I guess? But I think this is a ridiculous accusation.

You basically dismissed CF7's scuminess throughout the day because you considered him a newbie, but then you attack Sky who started playing here after CF7, which is what?

This is also ridiculous. I have a day power I'm literally probably not even going to use otherwise, I see no reason not to test BT's claim with it just in case. Yeah, I highly doubted he was lying, and even if he was scum he was probably a scum ascetic. But if I'm not even going to use it otherwise, why in the world is it bad for me to test the claim?

Okay, you've got me there.

I read over everyone and said in probably the same sentence that I can't tell who it'd be. CF7 actually flipped scum though so. Anyway, if you look back at D1, there's a part where CF7 comes back and he's just like "well I could vote X, Y, or Z I guess I'll vote Z lol bye" and I immediately went "uh, okay cf7 you're making it really hard for me to argue you're null anymore >_>;" which is supposed to explicitly imply "god that post was scummy" and in my later posts I explicitly say that, especially once he never came back and said anything else. I didn't just accept his lynch, CF7 make a post that was actually scummy as hell levels of lazy and he never came back, so he actually became really bad. At the end of the day I had forgotten it for a minute so I was searching for a different wagon but then I realized that wouldn't work, and only afterwords remembered cf7 probably needed lynching after all :V

Let me explain this a little better. It looked like you were defending a buddy at first and then changed your opinions to get bus cred when he seemed to be too far gone.

This is a big misrep of how I handled o4rfish; I was saying "Well, he's new, but... well actually these posts are pretty scummy." Then I complained about the bickering over Kingault's presence and said that part was null but, that, again, o4rfish's actions were actually fairly scummy. After awhile I remembered BT had given reasons for the slot to be town, and upon that I immediately started going against the o4rfish lynch. BT never restated those reasons though like I asked (He said -himself- he was going to do it before I even asked, so I figured that was fine, the second time I didn't have any time to do it myself) so bah.

No. This post has "oh town O4rfish is definitely possible but they're really scummy!", which is pretty much what I said. The other stuff isn't really relevant to what I was saying, but okay?

...but yeah all the parts where I didn't really scumhunt d2 are totes legit `-` But, uh, half of your case misrepresents me and the rest I feel are completely unwarranted pokes. Still want you lynched even if I never actually made a case on why *coughcough* but I'd probably not feel bad about OMGUS'ing you for this case if it wasn't that it's Kingmaker today.

Not really? I'll admit the ascetic thing was wrong but all of my other points are pretty legit.

[SB]

Who do you think would be scum with Serela btw, I don't see anyone that would explain the PX-level weird kills. Serela is also a, let's say simple killer and I don't see him avoiding the hard people to nightkill two people that commonly get themselves lynched, as townie as people were perceiving them.

Strong town players sometimes get mislynched too, and I don't think Rawr and NNR were ever going to be mislynched if they kept up what they were doing. Well, maybe not on Rawr, but I don't think NNR would ever have been lynched. But real talk: Dan maybe? I dunno, I'd say Dormio or something due to his N1 kill of me in Justice Juice but he's the host so erm.

[SB]

It's also possible that they were killed because of their suspicions I guess?

[ActionDan]

Alright back to Zak being my preferred lynch choice.

[Sky_Paladin]

To do;

1) Conqueror - - ISO
2) Serela - not really helpful, less waffly than usual, possible neighbour
3) Sky Paladin - sigh
5) Zakeri - - ISO
7) Shadoweh - super gold star pro town
Sacchi Hikaru - - ISO
9) ActionDan - back to power lurking unhelpful
11) SB - afk until a fire lit under his ass then goes straight for Bard, re-ISO
12) BT - active contributing, I colored him town after my last ISO
13) Bardiche - active contributing
XX) NNR - NNR's neighbour didn't report themselves yet.  That means it's either a group of 2+ neighbors who agreed not to show their hands yet, but I think it's more likely they are a scum neighbor that didn't want to out themselves. 
XX) Rawr - why did rawr get hit. The only thing I could see was that he was the one who hammer CF7.  Maybe there's something in his posts to give it away. 

***

Conqueror.  I'm going to try and avoid doing what I did with SB and only insinuate based on confirmed flips.  My ISO pattern is basically to post a link to anything that looks unusual or interesting and see if I can see a pattern *or something*. 

Generally on day 1 I didn't pay much attention to Conqueror for some reason.  I think because I was focused more on Hikari/King's interactions and I kind of blurred out CF7/Conq/BT/Rawr interactions because I wasn't involved.  So this is actually my first real read of Conq at this stage. 

Claims hated.  RVS Shadoweh.
Revote Shadoweh.  Possible coaching of Hikari.
//Questions Rawr over flavor overlap/Rawr's 'I'm 90% sure..."
Clarifies Shadoweh revote was RVS.  Vote Zakeri for not really sure why.  Querying players who vote for CF7.  Fairly soft defence of CF7 not really scummy imo.
Conq quizzes Kingault on his L-2 vote for CF7. 
Clarifies his Zak vote as 'Zak's vote on CF7 is bad' (generally) which is actually the same thing that happened with my vote on King. 
Revote Shadoweh (no claim yet).
Response to SB. Questions Bard's Serela Crusade and a few others.  Post that shows that Conq is paying attention to the game and especially to what people are doing and why they are doing it.  Is actually in the middle of a Shadoweh claim however...
Claim.  Start of Shadoweh/Conqueror back and forth. 
Challenges CF7 on his scumpicks (which includes 'maybe Conq').  Seems like the kind of detail scum would let slide.  Town. 
More pressure on CF7 *albeit indirectly*.  Playing nicely with others. 
Conq holding the middle ground.  He's not really defending CF7 so much as saying "I can see why people think he is scummy, I disagree, but CF7 really should come in and defend himself."  Echoes of me in the previous game.  CF7 just kind of dies in the bum. 
Admits lack of scumreads, says that is is towntell.  Picks Shadoweh/Kingault, possibly Dan.  Serela's ability = red herring. 
Vote Kingault as part of discussion with Shadoweh. 
Discussion intensifies on why is Shadoweh voting CF7. 
//I ID'd Rche as Conqueror in Villains2 because of a certain thing he does which he isn't doing in this game, which is to ask lots of targeted questions 'why are you doing xyz'/'why did you not do yxz?'  In VA2 he was scum, in Dwarf Fortress he as town, so this is a null tell on the surface.  I think that scum Conqueror trying to save his scumbuddy CF7 would have been going after more than just Shadoweh.  This looks to me like Conq is genuinely suspecting Shadoweh so I think it's really town at this point. 
Lining up lynches:  Shadoweh on conditional flip of Kingault (oops). 
Supports CF7 lynch over Serela.  Townclears Conq imo unless we later find out it was a choice between two scums. 
Following up on his questioning of Shadoweh.  Start of about a page long back-and-forth with Shadoweh. "It'd be like me saying if I was scum with CF7 here I'd have bussed him right from the get-go for the cred (I only tend to defend those buddies that will survive to the end) (but scumplay isn't static anyway)"  Not the kind of thing I'd expect scum to say seeing their buddy at L-1 (Conq just voted him), and "I've decided Kingault can be left to the vigs. I can't deal with this nonplayer shit. I want to lynch it on sight."  I'm totally up for lynching afk/unhelpful players in the absence of good leads.  So towny. 
(End day 1).  Its depressing that this is not even halfway. 
Reasonable looking high level analysis and 'here is what I think' type post.  Like it a lot. 
Conq discussing with BT about Kingault/Oarfish. 
Conq checks Sky's vanilla claim.  Oh noes. 
Conq asks for Zak to do something. 
Conq delays quickhammer on modcounterclaimed Sky to hear from Zak.  Town level:  Bulletproof doc. 

I'm going to stop here because Conqueror is painfully town.  If we later need to relook at Conq, I'll start from here. 

***
POE:
1) Conqueror - town
2) Serela - not really helpful, less waffly than usual, possible neighbour, some soft townclears
5) Zakeri - - to do ISO
7) Shadoweh - super gold star pro town
Sacchi Hikaru - - to do ISO
9) ActionDan - back to power lurking unhelpful scum
11) SB - afk until a fire lit under his ass then goes straight for Bard, to do: re-ISO
12) BT - active contributing, I colored him town after my last ISO
13) Bardiche - active contributing

***

I would lynch Dan, and Zak or Hikari as they are low enough on the interactions radar that I didn't get around to ISOing them yet.  Hikari because I can't remember what he did this game except for voting me for my vote on King, and Zak because he just hasn't had much presence. 

Also for some reason Dan and Conq keep wanting to lynch Zak.  I'll probably look in to that next. 

[Sky_Paladin]

I think that Serela is personally very annoying and not so much as unhelpful as actively getting in the way.  Her conversation level is way lower than usual though which makes me think she's putting it all in a quicktopic somewhere, hence why I picked her as NNR's scummy neighbour.  She's more chatty this phase which is consistent with somebody getting a bunch of time back. 

I mentioned previously a couple of times some soft townclears of Serela.  I'm struggling to think how or what NNR would have done when neighbor Serela claimed vote blocker.  I'll need to review NNR and see if there's any other clues. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Who is NNR's neighbour?
Maybe not Serela. 
Could be Conqueror, which is annoying as I've just town-cleared him.  Possibly also Hikari. NNR spends most of day 2 part 1 tunneling me for picking a Kingault/Hikari scum team.  We know it's not King, so it could be Hikari. 
Could be Serela again.  Wanted to lynch Serela most of day 1 but now they are pals.  When did that change? 
Protective of Hikari. 
ActionDan nice boat. 
More 'how dare you look poorly at Hikari' stuff. 

Ok.  On meta, I'm going to pick Serela.  On actually looking at his posts, I'm going to pick scum!Neighbour-Hikari.  Guess I'd better ISO Hikari over Zak. 

[Bardiche]

Why is NNR's nb scum?

[Sky_Paladin]

I figured the reason for NNR's night kill was because he had a scum neighbour.  I also figured that a towny neighbour would report "I was NNR's neighbour". 

I wouldn't actually know, I've never been a neighbour before. 

[Bardiche]

I've never been a neighbour before.

>before
So... are you saying you're NNR's neighbour?

[Sky_Paladin]

No, I'm saying I haven't been a neighbour before.  Like, ever. 

[Bardiche]

It's the "before" that's throwing me off; it implies that you are a neighbour now. Proper English dictates that "before" indicates a situation preceding "now".

And if you did claim NNR's NB you'd need to die obviously. :V

[Sky_Paladin]

I'm an English teacher so I'm saying it's okay. 

"Have you ever eat natto?"  "I've never eaten natto before."

If I was NNR's neighbour, the first thing he would have said when I claimed vanilla towny was "Sky is a neighbour so he is lying about his claim", not wait for Dormio to say 'there are no vanilla townies'. 

[Sky_Paladin]

And if you did claim NNR's NB you'd need to die obviously.

  Of course~~~~

For anybody else to be his neighour is not necessarily a death warrant imo. 

But it's totally you, isn't it :3

[Sky_Paladin]

Actually it's now possible to check the validity of the scum neighbour situation. 

Sometime soon (even today) you should put me up for lynch on the basis that I could be the neighbour. 

The real neighbour should speak up.  If they don't, when I flip not-neighbour, we'll know the real neighbour is scum.  We're now hitting 3 am though so I'm not going to argue if this is a great plan.  I'm also not 100% sure about my grammar point because even though I really am an English teacher, I am supposed to teach American English and I really don't know US English grammar apart from what I picked up from TV.  I learned Australian and they don't teach grammar after elementary school because of a phonics based syllabus.  THE MORE YOU KNOW. 

That's also why I spell it towny and neighbour fyi. 

[Bardiche]

Why are you so insistent on getting lynched, holy fuck.

[BT]

It's "Have you eaten", like "Have you seen" or "Have you walked" or etc.. You are forgiven.

Anyway, you're obviously not the neighbor. You would've been called out by NNR yesterday.

A much less convoluted plan than the one you suggested that gives the same result is that we force the neighbor to claim and if no one claims we assume they're scum. That's stupid though, both because having the neighbor claim is useless and because scum neighbor would claim town neighbor all the same as they have no reason NOT to. It's a free fakeclaim.

Stop cluttering the thread with this now.

[SB]

I figured the reason for NNR's night kill was because he had a scum neighbour.  I also figured that a towny neighbour would report "I was NNR's neighbour". 

I wouldn't actually know, I've never been a neighbour before.

This is silly, neighbours claiming after their other half dies makes it easy for scum to hunt down other more important roles.

[Sky_Paladin]

Ah, okay. 

I'm sorry for suggesting it.  I guess I'm just really tired :/

[SB]

Also I'm going to ##Vote: SB and see if I really am voteless for when Dormio gets here.

[Shadoweh]

you guys are incredibly silly. I mean the neighbour is patently obvious and wouldn'ty be able to get away with not claiming anyways.

Let me check where we are with claims.

1) Conqueror - Haruhi
2) Serela - Day Voteblocker
3) Sky Paladin - Vanilla town :>
5) Zakeri -
7) Shadoweh - MY LITTLE PONY SO MAGIC AND LOVELY
Sacchi Hikaru -
9) ActionDan - Receives three useless gifts a phase or something, reverse fruit vendor?
11) SB - Governator that ends the day phase completely?
12) BT - Action-Immune but still killable
13) Bardiche -

And dead:
Neko - Neighboour
Oarfish - Action Sharer (p good role tbh)
Rawr - Universal Abnormal Backup where no one has flipped Abnormal so far >_>

vs
CF7 (Jack of all kills) + x2 or 2 + some third party weirdo.

<_< So basically one of Bard and Zak is the neighbour. It would probably be best for them to claim at this point anyways since literally everyone else is outted.
Sacchi doesn't have to claim because spoilers I already know what his role is.

[Shadoweh]

Also for the power of CF7's role we sure have alot of garbage. <_< Oarfish is the only role that doesn't suck cocks, so that's kind of disappointing.

[Bardiche]

>Claiming before LYLO

I only consider NNR's vote appreciable there. I'd borrow sugar from him without fearing for getting shanked.

Because I'd only borrow sugar from a neighbour, unless I suspected he'd shank me. This is also why I said NNR knew I'd sheep him on SkyPal because I told him so in our QT, except that I like not blindly voting one person.

Also, Shadoweh: Unless you think Sacchi or Zakeri is a roleblocker, there's at least one lie in that list.

[SB]

11) SB - Governator that ends the day phase completely?

Ends the day in nl, yeah.

Oarfish - Action Sharer (p good role tbh)

Only as good as the stuff it shares. Scum doublekills aren't fun.

It is possible though that there are parts of roles that haven't been outed yet though, I guess.

[SB]

Neighbour claim makes me think Bard is probably town now though, due to stuff I said about earlier.

[Shadoweh]

>Claiming before LYLO

At this point you can make that accusation at everyone. :V I half-wonder if Neko got shanked because he hadn't claimed a shitty power. Uh, you were talking with Neko during that entire episode yesterday? Did you two talk privately about that whole thing and uh getting him to calm down?

Also of course someone is lying, there's mafia.

[SB]

Not entirely sure that the roleblock came from mafia yet though. Town needs some sort of actual power from somewhere.

[SB]

Wait Bard claimed the not!Neighbour. Never mind.