Revolutionary Girl Utena Mafia - Night 3 (Student Council Thread)

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

One absolutely spectacular fail at attempting to keep track of time later, I am here again (and hopefully there shouldn't be any more of these episodes again). Now to catch up on the day's posts.

[Polaris]

Now my question here is this: why PX in particular? The game is just as eager to come together and lynch bofh, from what I'm aware. Why are you anxious about one wagon but not the other?

I disagree. I don't think everyone cares about bofh nearly as much as they do PX.

[SB]

I don't think I lurked that hard yesterday? It was only 48 hours, it's not like it needs 500 posts. Rairai you should really remember what I've done seeing as I helped start the not-you wagon. <_< Just a quick look at yesterday shows really weird pressure on Rai because he wasn't compromising on vote choice. I am slightly confident in starting questioning here.

Something about this really bugs me, it's like "I helped to not get you lynched!" when we lynched a townie anyway? I don't know, it just feels like Shadoweh is appealing to Raikaria here in a way I can't really describe and I don't like it.

Just something about your D1 made me stop and go 'This isn't the Shadoweh I know'.

Is this scum!Shadoweh, or just different!Shadoweh in general? The latter isn't a tell imo, because just because a person is playing differently doesn't mean they're scum. I agree that Shadoweh's play has been kind of bad but I don't think this is a good reason to be suspicious.

I had this post open for 4 hours tabbed out oops. I should probably reread some people.

[BigBangMeteor]

I agree with what SB said about Shadoweh in that last post.

@Polaris- Why do you keep bringing up Serela and how he's worse than other people (both yourself and just now me) if you don't find him suspicious? It feels like redirection. The PX bit is relevant because no, pointing out that everybody is suspicious of PX does not set foundation for wagon analysis. It gets you the obvious answers of "somebody was bussing" if he flips scum or "scum attacked him" if flips town, but that doesn't actually help you or anyone else find out who the scum on the wagon are. At best it's useless fluff. At worst it's trying to spread paranoia if you're scumbuddies, or trying to distance yourself if he's town.

[Raikaria]

Is this scum!Shadoweh, or just different!Shadoweh in general? The latter isn't a tell imo, because just because a person is playing differently doesn't mean they're scum. I agree that Shadoweh's play has been kind of bad but I don't think this is a good reason to be suspicious.

I had this post open for 4 hours tabbed out oops. I should probably reread some people.

Actually as I pointed out later if anything different!Shadoweh is a towntell because most of the time we're in the game game it's scum!Shadoweh.

Waiting for Alice's opinions after he/she has caught up.

[SB]

Okay upon rereading Shadoweh I don't like her. She didn't do a lot day 1 except attack Paladin with one line reasoning she borrowed from BBM. And that was all she said on him besides the fact that he should claim later on. Her PX vote doesn't really seem like a real vote to me, it feels more like a prodvote to get him to answer a question, with no real commitment, and she's said nothing on him since then. Apart from that she's waffled on Serela, did that really odd Raikaria appeal I pointed out a few posts ago, shouted down announcerspec (which is okay) and basically townread Sky's counterwagons (or at least nullread) which made it seem like she was pretty much fixated on the Sky lynch, even though she's said basically nothing on him. Rou's responses to me make me feel better about him so I'm going to

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

[Serela]

Shadoweh is in my top 5 worst reads this game, so in the future that's a definitely a thing worth looking into, but I'd rather lynch PX or Polaris I think.

[Serela]

(the other two are SB and Bofh mostly because of unreadability but SB's d2 is looking alright so far and bofh is hopefully about to not be nonexistent)

[Polaris]

I brought Serela up because I thought it would provide insight into my thought process. I brought Serela up when questioning huh what because I thought I could get insight into huh what's thought process. I completely disagree with what you say about the whole PX thing. At best it's helpful for me to keep track of my own thoughts, and if you haven't noticed I'm a very stream-of-consciousness type of person. Do you actually think all this is scummy or do you just have a problem with my play style?

Shadoweh does need to post more but the same can be said for other people in the game. I put a blanket suspicion on her for lurking reasons and that hasn't really changed. I'll look at her again because of SB though.   SB do you mind quickly commenting on the leading wagons?

[Raikaria]

One absolutely spectacular fail at attempting to keep track of time later, I am here again (and hopefully there shouldn't be any more of these episodes again). Now to catch up on the day's posts.

OK this was almost 4 hours ago now. Right now in my head it's between you and PX to lynch; and the longer you go by without doing anything after showing us you are still alive the worse my opinion of you gets. At least PX may get replaced/modkilled at this rate.

[Raikaria]

Also I find it amusing I'm the only one who reads Shadoweh acting different to normal as a towntell. That said; IDK what Town!Shadoweh usually is like. Is town Shadoweh usually this lurky?

[SB]

Also I find it amusing I'm the only one who reads Shadoweh acting different to normal as a towntell. That said; IDK what Town!Shadoweh usually is like. Is town Shadoweh usually this lurky?

Isn't this completely contradictory?

@Polly, PX isn't great and I would be fine with lynching him, just like the rest of the game. As for you I'm not sure, NNR's one post wasn't good but none of your posts make me think super scum or anything. I dunno.

[Raikaria]

Isn't this completely contradictory?

Well I figured initially that since Shadoweh was acting diferent to normal Shadoweh may be scum.

Then I figured Shadoweh is normally scum so therefor being different is a towntell.

Then I just realized that I don't even know what 'normal' town Shadoweh is like.

It is a developing train of thought.

[BT]

##Unvote
##Vote Polaris

I'm still not super happy about this. In fact I'm looking at the rest of this post retroactively and I'm already regretting this. Anyway I think I'll resort to questioning now:

Just something about your D1 made me stop and go 'This isn't the Shadoweh I know'.

Can you go into detail?

Actually; on the Shadoweh topic; in most games both me and Shadoweh is in; Shadoweh is scum. So maybe Shadoweh acting different from what I consider normal is a townread?  :wat:

...I'm actually wanting to factcheck this. When was Shadoweh scum in the last forever, anyway? GHW? This "in most games" shtick sounds like you made it up on the spot.

Give me your priorities too. All I see from you right now is a vote on PX which you're sitting real cozy on. What about the rest of the people you listed in your Lurker List(tm)? For what purpose did you list them if you weren't going to actually consider them today from the looks of it? Okay you mentioned bofh too but that's just the other obvious lurker and is an effortless backup vote.

You didn't answer when I said your comment on Polly is weird. Are you avoiding me? You could have plainly seen that he was in the game by virtue of him POSTING MULTIPLE TIMES WHEN THE DAY STARTED so it sounds like you made it up to discredit his slot.

Another thing: it kind of bothers me now that you didn't really care that much for my case when I put your motives behind Skypush into question. You're like "yeah I was pushing really hard, dangit Sky! Also BT that's a legitimate case". It's like I get the feeling you WOULD have confronted it if people piled on you instead of PX but since your position's fine it doesn't bother you. I think you would have reacted to it as town too. So yeah.

THE QUESTIONS END THUS

I'm trying to explain what bugs me about Polly's defense and it's probably how he lays down his behavior for Serela and slams him for not getting all that himself. Serela's vote was fine at a glance so it's kind of a sharp reaction and it's making me think he's trying to get his attackers off him by making them feel their votes are shit. Same thing for BBM's vote - it wasn't BBM not understanding Polly's Serela/PX stances, it was Polly's Serela/PX stances not being clear, and his response to "you aren't scumhunting" is "what do you want? I've looked at the main wagons". It's an unreasonable attack on their cases and the same thing I said Rai was doing to PX on D1.

Next order of business is settle just what I think about SB and Shadoweh considering the former's vote on the latter.

[Raikaria]

Can you go into detail?

It's mostly gut. Shadoweh's been a lot less active than usual; and something about how Shadoweh's posts sounded D1 felt different. It's something very hard to quantify.

...I'm actually wanting to factcheck this. When was Shadoweh scum in the last forever, anyway? GHW? This "in most games" shtick sounds like you made it up on the spot.

Well remember we're looking for games that both me and Shadoweh played in. It certainly feels like Shadoweh turns out scum in most games I play with her.

Give me your priorities too. All I see from you right now is a vote on PX which you're sitting real cozy on. What about the rest of the people you listed in your Lurker List(tm)? For what purpose did you list them if you weren't going to actually consider them today from the looks of it? Okay you mentioned bofh too but that's just the other obvious lurker and is an effortless backup vote.

You speak as if I am the most narrow-minded person in the game right now; when I considered more things than most seem to have.

And you ask me for a list of priorities; but where are your own?  I gave priorities towards the end of D1; and besides Alice moving up over time; very little has changed; as very little has actually occurred D2.

You didn't answer when I said your comment on Polly is weird. Are you avoiding me? You could have plainly seen that he was in the game by virtue of him POSTING MULTIPLE TIMES WHEN THE DAY STARTED so it sounds like you made it up to discredit his slot.

Honestly I'm pretty neutral on Polly. I generally have a null read on him.

I have a null read on Polly. He hadn't done much of note D1 and was a strongly null read so I overlooked him. I am not discrediting the slot; the slot at the time had not done anything. Please do not make out I am 'avoiding you'. I am being open and honest.

It's an unreasonable attack on their cases and the same thing I said Rai was doing to PX on D1.

PX never had a solid case. Ever. I was far from the only one to question PX's vote on me too. Literally all PX has done this game is tunnel on me. I'm not even sure if his posts have mentioned other people except for the one where he voted everyone involved in the Dormio escapade.

[Raikaria]

Just a friendly reminder that I am not voting PX simply for inactivity. I stated I disliked PX back when I first voted Sky; and he has not improved with what little he has contributed since. In fact; his D2 sheep and continued tunnel makes things even worse.

[SB]

Shadoweh is in my top 5 worst reads this game, so in the future that's a definitely a thing worth looking into, but I'd rather lynch PX or Polaris I think.

(the other two are SB and Bofh mostly because of unreadability but SB's d2 is looking alright so far and bofh is hopefully about to not be nonexistent)

Is your read on us due to the fact that we're lurking (well, CF7 did in my case) or something else? Plus tbh I think I've posted a decent amount today for you to get a read on my by now so the fact you keep coming back to this is kind of annoying me because I feel like my posts are just kind of being ignored. I dunno if this is actually scummy though.

Would digest BT and Raikaria's exchange but I'm just gonna head to sleep instead.

[BT]

It's mostly gut. Shadoweh's been a lot less active than usual; and something about how Shadoweh's posts sounded D1 felt different. It's something very hard to quantify.

Except one can usually point to exactly what felt different about someone. Shadoweh did not have a lot of posts. It must have been something she said or did that would explain this sort of thing. I want you to tell me what it is that was the source of this gut read.

Well remember we're looking for games that both me and Shadoweh played in. It certainly feels like Shadoweh turns out scum in most games I play with her.

Again, I can only recall GFW as an example for this.

You speak as if I am the most narrow-minded person in the game right now; when I considered more things than most seem to have.

And you ask me for a list of priorities; but where are your own?  I gave priorities towards the end of D1; and besides Alice moving up over time; very little has changed; as very little has actually occurred D2.

And? I'm not criticizing you as much as I'm questioning you so you can tell me things I don't know yet. Bouncing the question back to me is really passive-aggressive here, plus I clearly said what I was going to do next.

I have a null read on Polly. He hadn't done much of note D1 and was a strongly null read so I overlooked him. I am not discrediting the slot; the slot at the time had not done anything. Please do not make out I am 'avoiding you'. I am being open and honest.

Um. I'm not asking you for your read. I'm asking why you claimed you forgot Polly was playing when it was impossible to do so unless you literally didn't read the thread.

PX never had a solid case. Ever. I was far from the only one to question PX's vote on me too. Literally all PX has done this game is tunnel on me. I'm not even sure if his posts have mentioned other people except for the one where he voted everyone involved in the Dormio escapade.

Okay but there's "questioning a case" and there's "I'm going to explain my behavior and then attack this guy because look, I explained my behavior". PX's case was not solid but that's not the issue.

[BT]

GHW*. GFW is a cool game but isn't really relevant here.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I forgot that Shadoweh was playing this game.

[Raikaria]

Except one can usually point to exactly what felt different about someone. Shadoweh did not have a lot of posts. It must have been something she said or did that would explain this sort of thing. I want you to tell me what it is that was the source of this gut read.

It's the tone of the post. The post as a whole. I'm not an expert at analyzing text to point out what gives me the feeling.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Raikaria and BT are both really obviously town pls stop fighting. At the very least I get the impression BT just wants to keep his case alive and is now pushing nitpicks like the "I forgot Polly was playing" quote (hint this is a stock phrase, you can say it about somebody you knew was playing, like I did 2 posts ago) because of it.

[ActionDan]

I forgot I was playing

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Re-read Shadoweh and would definitely support that lynch. Don't like how her D2 suspicions are written like questions (and arbitrary, how is what Rou did scummy and not angry town? I half-expect town!Shadoweh would've instantly concluded it was the latter tbh). Don't like the passive-aggressive threat to Serela which isn't supplemented by an actual read on him.

I still like Polly lynch the most. His response to me didn't affect my opinion since he was just all "I don't care about people"... He doesn't have to vote somebody he doesn't care about to answer BBM's request; it's possible to read players while still voting your #1 scumspect and I think BBM's point is that his bofh vote just looks like a votepark while he focuses on neither bofh nor anybody else.

[FinnKaenbyou]

It is seriously frustrating me that PX and Alice have managed to grind the game pretty much to a halt simply by not existing.

Besides the lurkers wagons I can get behind today are Polly (general attitude in the place of actual hunting, replacing the already questionable NNR) and Shadoweh (as close to lurking as physically possible without lurking, odd shaming policy early on, and resigned herself to voting Paladin while saying she didn't like the wagon - with 16 hours still left in the day, which seems really early to give in). On policy alone though I think Lynch All Lurkers takes priority because otherwise scum gets a free pass to sit back and let town talk itself to death. No-one else immediately strikes me as scummy though I admit I haven't read the last few pages very intently.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Remember that time I said we should recreate MotK Mafioso?

Seriously though I kind of want to off PX on LALu alone.

[Shadoweh]

Also I find it amusing I'm the only one who reads Shadoweh acting different to normal as a towntell. That said; IDK what Town!Shadoweh usually is like. Is town Shadoweh usually this lurky?

Only when I sleep for 14 hours. Also stop starting every page with a comment about me, it's creepy.

huh what: I already instantly concluded Rou was angry town once. The problem with that is I have to factcheck it against how Rou is a paranoid leader type as scum. I didn't have a read on Serela, threatening him is how I get one. I actually still don't have one though, I keep reading his posts and they're like ?_?

I don't get why Polaris is a wagon, his attitude just seems to be lynchable to people for some reason. I also don't.. think PX has posted today? It's hard to tell when you don't use your name ever.. nope no posts from PX. Super.

[Kilgamayan]

Too Tired To Think Of A Funny Utena Situation Vote Count

BigBangMeteor (0): Roukan
bofh (2): Polaris, ActionDan
Raikaria (1): BT, PX
Serela (0): BigBangMeteor
PX (3): Raikaria, Roukan, Shadoweh
Polaris (4): Prims, Serela, BigBangMeteor, BT
Roukan (0): Serious Bananas
Shadoweh (1): Serious Bananas

Not voting (1): bofh

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have 22 hours remaining.

[Shadoweh]

Also 15 posts of Shadoweh is lurking doesn't help either of us you know. What do you want to hear from me?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

yawn

##Unvote
##Vote: PX
Swinging wagons. Have some incentive to post.