Author Topic: Revolutionary Girl Utena Mafia - Night 3 (Student Council Thread) (Read 103407 times)

Serela · « **Reply #120 on:** December 05, 2013, 02:03:08 AM »

I'm too tired to give a proper opinion but at the least I'm going to say that Rou doesn't "have no way to possibly know" what Dan did last game. >_> Yeah he can't be expected to because he wasn't a player, so it's not like your reasoning is actually bad, but you're just overstating it to a silly degree :V It's not like non-players are not allowed to read the mafia threads, and it was the game that just happened so it wouldn't be all that weird if he did.

Also for the sake of those who have no idea, Rou used to play mafia on here a few years back.

Anyway, from rereading, Sky's reason for voting Rou is that Rou is being "unnecessarily zealous" in pushing Dan. At my current state of ability to think... I'll just leave my response to that at "I disagree that this is a reason Rou looks scummy"

BigBangMeteor · « **Reply #121 on:** December 05, 2013, 02:51:26 AM »

...but you think Rou is scum due to him attacking Dan. If this is not why you think Rou is scum, then please elaborate.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #122 on:** December 05, 2013, 02:54:16 AM »

ZETTAI
UNMEI
MOKUSHIROKU

Shadoweh (0): Serela
Serela (2): Shadoweh, Prims, PX, Zakeri
Prims (0): Serela, PX
ActionDan (3): PX, Roukan, Prims, NekoNekoRex
BT (0): PX
Raikaria (1): PX
PX (0): Prims, BigBangMeteor, Serela, BT
Zakeri (1): CF7, NekoNekoRex
Roukan (1): Sky Paladin, Raikaria
NekoNekoRex (3): BT, ActionDan, Serela
Sky Paladin (1): BigBangMeteor

Not voting (2): bofh, Raikaria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have about 20.5 hours left to vote.

BigBangMeteor · « **Reply #123 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:05:36 AM »

Quote from: Serela on December 05, 2013, 02:03:08 AM

I'm too tired to give a proper opinion but at the least I'm going to say that Rou doesn't "have no way to possibly know" what Dan did last game. >_> Yeah he can't be expected to because he wasn't a player, so it's not like your reasoning is actually bad, but you're just overstating it to a silly degree :V It's not like non-players are not allowed to read the mafia threads, and it was the game that just happened so it wouldn't be all that weird if he did.

Also for the sake of those who have no idea, Rou used to play mafia on here a few years back.

Anyway, from rereading, Sky's reason for voting Rou is that Rou is being "unnecessarily zealous" in pushing Dan. At my current state of ability to think... I'll just leave my response to that at "I disagree that this is a reason Rou looks scummy"

Well, yeah, he could read that game if he wanted to, and it wouldn't be weird if he did, but Sky is expecting him to have done so, which you obviously can't do. Finding him scummy for not realizing that Dan is playing the same way as he did last game is still bad. And there's nothing scummy about being "zealous" or pushing reads hard either.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #124 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:07:05 AM »

I think that Rou is scum because they are pursuing (insert name) here. It just happens to be Dan.

I initially decided not to vote for Dan because I am deliberately suspending the meta scum reads that are popular here, and going with another set. Because Shrinemaiden is not familiar with Megatokyo scumslips, maybe I'll find something interesting. This does imply that I found Dan scummy; but under the mtf-mafia category, we ignore mistakes and bad play. We focus on...another set of categories. Anyway, I don't want to give it away at this point because I'll ruin my experiment if I do.

But I'll put out the posts here and mark their severity on the scumdex so I can refer back to here later after the game.

Rou's first post - 0% scummy.
Rou's second post - 20% scummy.
Rou's third and fourth posts - 30% scummy each.

My stated reason is 'more zealous than required'. There's a specific wordset that I would use that I want to keep secret for now.

It's enough for me if you don't agree and vote elsewhere. This is primarily for my own personal assessment of the meta here.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #125 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:08:20 AM »

BBM you are still misunderstanding/misrepresenting me. This has nothing to do with Dan, except by coincidence.

Serela · « **Reply #126 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:35:14 AM »

pressuring is only scummy if the methods you're using to do so in themselves are scummy IMO (like if the logic of their pressure was bad or they were using loaded tactics)

Pressuring people can also help you tell if they're actually town, so

in this case I am interpreting overzealousity as "applying much pressure" but if this is a mistake you can tell me!

It's getting more and more awkward to comment on this without having read the stuff you and the relevant parties are doing in depth >_> I'll be better after I get a good night's sleep. No work tomorrow, but probably have to do other errand shenanigans at some point.

ActionDan · « **Reply #127 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:38:29 AM »

you know I'm trying to lay off saying x is town.

but I think Sky Paladin is town.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #128 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:50:10 AM »

Quote from: Sky_Paladin on December 05, 2013, 01:58:44 AM

I am not voting Rou because he is pushing Dan.

I am voting Rou because I think he is scum.

Yeah, except your only stated reason (From what I can tell) for thinking Roukan is scum is because of the way he pushed for Dan.
Which kind of makes it yeah you're voting him for pushing dan.

Poor Kilga, preparing a rant on how to do Captain Planet properly only to find out he had been shown up from the very beginning.

Serela's responce to my case on him doesn't clear all of the doubts about him, but it does introduce a lot of doubts on my own case on him Admitting it wasn't purely joke makes the omgus on Huhwhat seem less scummy for some reason I can't place, and the fact that he actually has an explanation prepared for why it's dumb neuters my point on why the vote for PX was bad.

I don't have much besides a pressure vote for PX, a sheep onto NNR, or wait for new content while holding onto my Serela vote. Between the three I think the vote on PX is the least useful right now.
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: PX

cut: Sky, I understand that you're saying the target of Rou's pressure has nothing to do with how you feel about the way he is pressuring, but the way you word it is confusing because you're trying to deny the fact that Dan is involved when he clearly is. I don't think anyone actually thinks your scum for this (with the possible exception of BBM unless he's scum trying to distract us by going after dumb logic) but it's kind of distracting.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #129 on:** December 05, 2013, 03:51:48 AM »

I should have removed that first paragraph considering my last paragraph.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #130 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:22:55 AM »

I changed my mind I dont actually want to play mafia lol.

The questions from Dan that irked me were the ones targeted toward me because he was talking in circles about semantics and I really had no answer beyond "uhhh, I don't know what to say to this???". Right now though my gut says Dan is null and I just found his ED1 annoying.

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoRex

Listing off a bunch of things Dan has done and treating reactions to Dormio's claim scummier than they actually are is worse than Dan's actual posts. People supporting Captain Planet aren't scummy; brazenly requesting role help ED1 is more town than not since it's a polarizing move that draw attention to the player, and we'd also know Dormio's role was activated.

Raikaria's Rou vote is invalidating Rou's question just for the sake of having a vote. Like the post literally reads as if he pointed out a townie being silly, then slapped on MISREPS ARE BAD and voted so he'd be doing something. Rou wasn't even voting PX. Backpedaling just because Zakeri said "no ur wrong" is questionable too, how was Zakeri's line of thought more convincing than his own?

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #131 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:33:22 AM »

Quote from: Prims on December 05, 2013, 04:22:55 AM

how was Zakeri's line of thought more convincing than his own?

Because I was correct.

It slipped my mind as I was posting but the empty unvote did reach my concern. I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt for now but I'd happily polcy vote him tomorrow if he doesn't deliver something promising by the end of the day.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #132 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:34:04 AM »

Refering to Raikaria's actions in that last part if that wasn't clear.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #133 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:35:29 AM »

hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii everyone
you posted so many words! i bet they're anggrtyv words
im just posting to let yoyu know!
that i lobe you! yuou live everyone single one of you/! im so happy to have met you a;;
except serela >:C yhtstio is all i wanted to saY TNTOUGH
also trhat i had my work patrty and i probably would n;t post again tonight
okay byyyyyyyye

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #134 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:37:53 AM »

Yes but Raikaria wouldn't know you're correct....... unless he's scum

I just think the submissive "I guess you're right" looks unnatural. There's no rationalizing or explanation of why he thought Rou was scum in spite of what you said but changed his mind. Basically there's not enough TOWNIE FIGHT!! in him.

Actually I just convinced myself to vote him over NNR.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

Serela · « **Reply #135 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:39:32 AM »

HW that girl's chin is triangular as fuck

Serela · « **Reply #136 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:40:29 AM »

oh wait the shaded part is still part of the face

I didn't realize that I thought it was her neck

...this is a sign I really should go to bed

also Shadoweh hi <3

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #137 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:43:55 AM »

anime

PX · « **Reply #138 on:** December 05, 2013, 04:59:46 AM »

Hi
Just posting from work
To say that I'm at work
Post after

BigBangMeteor · « **Reply #139 on:** December 05, 2013, 05:22:31 AM »

Those percentages are extremely arbitrary and linking to Rou's posts does not tell me or anyone else why said post is 20% scummy or 30% scummy. This is sort of reminding me of Zak's Villains scumplay (yes, I know he is not you) where he'd make up random numbers and percentages of how people were scummy to pad his posts and make his suspicions out to be more than they actually were. Why is being zealous scummy? What is the scum intent in any of his posts? What is the "townie" level of zealotry? Your argument against Rou makes no sense to me, even if we discount who Rou's target is.

Zak- if the PX vote is least useful, why are you voting for him

I know I'm sort of tunneling on Sky. >_> I think BT's vote on NNR was pretty good. would sheep. Raikaria gets easily swayed and gives up his opinions quicker than he should like every game and IIRC that was a part of why he was lynched last game too.

Dan, why is Sky town?

Shadoweh, do you swear to drunk you're not god?

BT · « **Reply #140 on:** December 05, 2013, 06:14:28 AM »

I'm kind of ellipsis at Zak's backing off of Serela. Seeing as I thought his case was that Serela was being nonchalant and opp. with voting PX, why would it change things for Zak if Serela explained his lacking reasoning later? The source of his doubts comes off as weird and unconvincing. This point is important++ because the "used bad reasoning to switch off of an unpopular target" argument is cool and I like it. The PX vote is just as underwhelming because it's just adding more pressure to a pressure wagon. Why go for a pressure vote over "a sheep", by the way? You'd be pressuring the other dude all the same. <_<

BBM's fixation on Skypal is a bother. I don't really have a problem with the push itself but I would've expected him to have a bigger scope, so he gets to be "weird" by meta. Speaking of which, it's hard for me to swallow Skypal right now - I was fine with him using a gut-esque argument on Rou at the time he used it but it's become his one and only mission, kind of similar to BBM actually.

Wait nevermind BBM made another post. I thought it was Noname playing as Mr. L, not Zak, though I could be wrong. I'm kind of in ageeement on Rai but it's mostly for a different reason, that he was like this last game behavoir-wise but man do I hate myself for this. I got really mad when I pretty much asked him to meat up his posts and his reply was "lol there's almost nothing to talk about" when he didn't even address my case or talk about NNR or Zak or BBM or Sky or anything. I'll go with my old MO of letting him live for a bit and see if his scumhunting is decent. Bleh.

Does NNR know this day is 48 hours long?

ActionDan · « **Reply #141 on:** December 05, 2013, 06:28:02 AM »

Quote from: BigBangMeteor on December 05, 2013, 05:22:31 AM

Dan, why is Sky town?

Shadoweh, drunk

I don't have a good explanation (I would have given it this time had I one); I'll have to revert to some vague answer like 'feels genuine' or 'trying to scumhunt'. actually 'trying to scumhunt' might be appropriate. being suspicious of someone for being 'over-zealous' is natural enough if you think the amount of stuff that someone throws at others is unwarranted. for example Prims said I was asking chaff and thought that was scummy. Same principle.

ActionDan · « **Reply #142 on:** December 05, 2013, 06:28:21 AM »

also I want more drunk Shadoweh

BT · « **Reply #143 on:** December 05, 2013, 06:41:53 AM »

Actually this is disgusting. PX and bofh and possibly someone else I'm forgetting (oh god CF7 is in the game) are donothings and we have, like, 16 hours remaining. What the fuck.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #144 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:13:58 AM »

Quote from: BBM

Zak's Villains scumplay (yes, I know he is not you) where he'd make up random numbers and percentages of how people were scummy to pad his posts and make his suspicions out to be more than they actually were

I would like to reiterate that I it had nothing to do with being scum. It was to pad my posts out with flavor that was all acting with absurd overconfidence while at the same time mistakenly believing that I was actually making my stances clearer by assigning definite values to certain actions.

Quote

Zak- if the PX vote is least useful, why are you voting for him

Sorry I meant the opposite of that. I was trying to say that voteparking on Serela and wagon hopping on NNR would be less useful since my read on Serela was shaken and also because NNR was naturally gathering votes at the time and I figured I'd join in when it's closer to consolidation time.

Quote from: BT

I'm kind of ellipsis at Zak's backing off of Serela. Seeing as I thought his case was that Serela was being nonchalant and opp. with voting PX, why would it change things for Zak if Serela explained his lacking reasoning later? The source of his doubts comes off as weird and unconvincing.

Part of the reason why my read got shaken up was because I realized a lot of my comments against him were presumptions on how scum would act in his position and then seeing his thwart all of them in one way or another. It's too early for a town read, and you're right in that it was probably too early for a not-lynching-day-one read as well.

I was tempted to keep my vote on Serela that as I said above, it felt like a votepark, and considering my status as a lurker, I've been slammed with votepark accusations as town, even when I felt like I had justified them which leads to paranoia regarding staying on one case for too long.

This post is probably incrimination defensive so I'm going to wrap it up with a passive aggressive comment on how PX is promising content later

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #145 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:19:08 AM »

BBM, why is Rai not worth acknowledging? I'm baffled why Zak would prefer a PX votepark over voting Rai too. In any case I'll support a NNR wagon at deadline if everybody just wants to wait and see on Rai.

The BT comment about BBM's scope is actually funny since people tend to push him for attacking too many people when he's town but I don't think it means anything here (and I also think his posts so far have been good).

"Good god no. If I join I plan to, y'know, actually be an active player. >_>" - alice margatroid, 2013

also i didnt even realize cf7 was playing lolllll

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #146 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:56:33 AM »

Right, things that need saying.

-BOFH. CF7. SAY THINGS. (also counts for PX if he doesn't follow through on his 'will post after work' thing)

-Raikaria makes me uncomfortable. He was tunneling on me slightly before but what really worries me is how after Zak pressed him on the case he was just like 'well okay, unvote' without trying to go for any sort of alternative. I have to agree with Huhwhat here in that he doesn't seem to be trying with regards to scumhunting.

-~~Rex-nyan~~ NNR is probably the opposite of Rai in a lot of ways. NNR pushed the Dan wagon crazy hard, while Rai didn't try to push the Rou wagon hard enough. Pushing questionable wagons is reasonably worse than not pushing a wagon at all.

-Dan and Sky are really hard to judge. Sky in particular really feels town to me. Despite being called out and told his arguments are silly he's still trying to push them. That doesn't read like scum trying not to be lynched. (Also kinda reminds me of how I used to play...>_>)
Dan is a bit more nebulous but he's definitely not a main point of consideration any more.

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

BBM: Please explain what makes you think the Sky case is better than the NNR case.

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #147 on:** December 05, 2013, 07:58:52 AM »

Double post to clarify: 'Pushing questionable wagons is reasonably worse than not pushing a questionable wagon at all.' Rai is still iffy and he needs to give a real argument when he comes back, but for now Rex takes the cake for pushing Dan on silly reasons.

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #148 on:** December 05, 2013, 08:06:38 AM »

actually the more I think about this the worse Rai looks.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

I think this should up the votes on both of them. Will go for whichever of the two fails to deliver with regards to explanation/a decent case.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #149 on:** December 05, 2013, 08:29:01 AM »

Wow, do we really only have 16 hours left? @_@
Sorry, I sobered up enough to type words that make my normal amount of sense. I just have had the hiccups for six hours also staring at the words to read them hurts my eyes i discovered this justn ow i am putting myyself in pain for you i hope your happy
Hmm. Serela's last effort post shows a strange level of apathy. I supose I feel better about him for not trying so hard to make up nonsense. I don't think im in a position to judge but my alcohgol induced brain says he is legit. since when has Captain Morgan ever lied to me?
I agree with BBM about Sky P's percentages because uuuuuh you're still voting Rou for voting Dan and then saying you have other reasons but I REFUSE TO TELL THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE 20% COOLER! Saying it just happens to be Dan doesn't remove that your reason for voting ROU doesn't exist.
I'm not sure why people are voting Rai tbh. Or Neko? I supose Rai hasn't done much other then defend his HEART, but seriously are we going for a Day 1 lynch record or
Trying to decide whether I would rather lynch Neko or Rai since that's what people's hearts are set on isn't doing it for me. This leads me to believe I don't actually want to lync either. So I'm gonna vote for the guy spouting nonsense and hope you all join me.

##Vote: Sky Paladin