Revolutionary Girl Utena Mafia - Night 3 (Student Council Thread)

[FinnKaenbyou]

Are you trying to imply something when you quoted 75?

Mainly that you were trying to use it to sell yourself as town when your reasoning made no sense. Your argument was 'town stands to benefit more from activating random silly powers than scum does!' which is nonsensical and honestly extremely dangerous. More often than not kooky powers like that are third party and do not benefit town whatsoever.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Sorry for double post, but another piece I just noticed:

I'll wait for everyone else to punish PX.

This feels like wagon distancing. Do you support the PX case? If so why don't you support it enough to put a vote against it?

[Sky_Paladin]

I guess I should point it out since my joke maybe wasn't so obvious. 

Shadoweh (0): Serela
Serela (2): Shadoweh, Prims, PX, Zakeri
PX (0): Prims
Prims (0): Serela, PX
ActionDan (2): PX, Roukan, Prims
BT (0): PX
Raikaria (1): PX
PX (3): BigBangMeteor, Serela, BT
Zakeri (1): CF7

Some of these numbers are not like other numbers.  A lot of people, actually.  Hell, Prims has two votes and is on 0.  Special maths?  Or does half the game have some kind of vote squelch ability?

[Sky_Paladin]

##Vote Rousaka Hiyoko

Based on mainly just a feeling, and a little bit that the pursuit on ActionDan is more zealous than required. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Also I kind of want to see if Rousaka has some kind of mystic vote squelch ability, too. 

[NekoNekoRex]

Check it out, Neko's here.

##Vote: Zak for his "I'll wait and see on PX" comment, struck me as odd and scummy.

Dan seems pretty scummy, he's making a bunch of terrible posts, like reacting real hard on votes, making a nonsense read on Darkie (despite him replacing). His approval of letting the ITP blindly win doesn't look anything like how cautious town should be when dealing with blatant role shenanigans.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

EDIT: Cute by Rou somehow making the same point about Zak.

Also:
If I ever make a Captain Planet role it's going to have a negative impact on the rest of the game so that nobody is tempted to blindly follow it. That's a lame ITP role with almost no challenge needed.

Stop cutting me

[Sky_Paladin]

I'll cut you as many times as I want! 

If I ever did a Captain Planet role, I'd make it so that when you used it, instead of winning the game, you could kill off some number of the players who you quoted.  Maybe all of them. 

Great for LYLO situations imo. 

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Ugh. ~14 hours, and we have a third-party victory and a replacement? Give me a few minutes to actually read this, I have an awful headache currently for some reason.

Warning: while you were writing this 7 new replies have been posted. Oh you can't be serious.

[Sky_Paladin]

At first I wanted to vote for Dan too because he is being evasive and asking weak questions in a poor attempt to deflect and pretending to answer when not really answering.  But then I thought I am actually really tired and just read the thread and only skimmed a little bit.  In the end I zeroed in on Rousaka because Dan was exactly like that last game when he was miller.  So it's probably patently unfair. 

What does yolol mean anyway. 

AND NOW IT IS EIGHT.

[BT]

##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex

Dan's opinion on public roleshens isn't indicative of anything. Stop lunging at it like it is. Would ask Rou what makes him think Dan was trying to 'sell himself as town' with that because that seems out of the blue. NNR's the worse of the two, though, because he takes the extra step of making things up - there was no DNA read nor was there an "approval of letting the ITP blindly win". Further, town has no obligation to be cautious around this sort of stuff and the bit about "terrible posts" and "reacting real hard" is an exaggeration.

Some of these numbers are not like other numbers.  A lot of people, actually.  Hell, Prims has two votes and is on 0.  Special maths?  Or does half the game have some kind of vote squelch ability?

Your quote doesn't show it but Kilga bolded the actual votes and left the unvotes in italics. The votals are fine.

If I ever did a Captain Planet role, I'd make it so that when you used it, instead of winning the game, you could kill off some number of the players who you quoted.  Maybe all of them. 

Great for LYLO situations imo. 

Don't do this.

[FinnKaenbyou]

@Sky_Paladin - you made a mistake quoting the vote count. Kilga uses bold for votes that are currently in place and italics for votes that were placed and have since been retracted. So from what I can see there isn't a vote squelch in play.

Also I'm struggling to parse your reasoning. You say that you found Dan scummy, then drop it on the basis of 'he was like that when he was town last time'. You also spend a lot of time talking about stuff that doesn't really matter (how you'd design roles, the 'vote squelch' no-one but you can see) instead of making a proper argument. Please expand on your reasoning.

On the subject of people who need to expand, PX needs an argument beyond 'you're an idiot' in his next post. The third party win was dumb but he just says 'it's dumb' without really trying to make a case. PX, of the five people who you voted for, who are you most suspicious of and why?

Ninja:

Would ask Rou what makes him think Dan was trying to 'sell himself as town' with that because that seems out of the blue.

More a gut feeling there than anything. It felt like the statement about 'town is better off activating stupid roles' was built on the inherent premise of 'I'm town so I know what's best for us don't question me'. I admit it's not worth much on its own but given I was calling him up on earlier statements I thought it was worth pursuing.

[Sky_Paladin]

I wasn't aware of the vote-redact thing.  So never mind that :3

I initially thought 'hmm the way Dan is acting is not sensible'.  But last game playing as scum I saw that a lot of common tells that people apparently bought as scum reads were just on hapless townies.  So I decided to go with my previous experience in scumhunting from a different forum.  Basically, making mistakes or playing badly doesn't mean you are scum.  Plenty of innocent people can make mistakes.  The more they post the more it can get picked up on.  This is especially true with people like DarkNinjaABC who, as town, lied about being a vigilante and then an ITP for no reason.  You can't get a good read following the 'usual rules' because some people don't know those rules and some do. 

So I went with you because I didn't see you making a mistake.  I saw you being unnecessarily zealous.  That's exactly what I did when I was being scum last game. 

[FinnKaenbyou]

I don't like the argument of 'he does this scummy thing when he's town so let's not vote him'. I don't know if Dan has a reputation for this but even if he does I don't think it excuses him.

Also what I don't understand here is why Dan's behaviour doesn't qualify as 'unnecessarily zealous' as well. Immediately snapping at the first person who votes him, pressing the tiniest things on other players, and so on. What made me appear more zealous than him in that case?

[WHMZakeri]

Sorry for double post, but another piece I just noticed:
This feels like wagon distancing. Do you support the PX case? If so why don't you support it enough to put a vote against it?

Because I support the vote against Serela more.
And also because I know PX is going to be an easy target.
And also because Serela already jumped on him with a vague follow-up statement.

I agree Dan's trying too hard to look town but after last game, I'm leaning null on that rather than the usual scum trying to force brownie points.

I'm already coming up with plans for a Captain Planet role that changes everything we know about captain planet roles - starting with the fact that they're always itp instant win condition.
To fill Rou in: Dan got lynched for being a miller in a game after having gathered the reputation of scum who's able to bullshit himself out of a lynch and then screwing the rest of the game over. There was a lot of hurtbert afterwards regarding people's response to policy lynching him despite him actually being town that game.

[BigBangMeteor]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Sky

PX still needs content but Sky's vote is terrible. "Dan was suspicious but then I realized that this is his town meta, so I'm going to vote the person going after him instead". Except Roukanken wasn't in the last game (and I don't know how many games he's played with him in the past, if any) and has no way of knowing how Dan played as Miller. And pushing something hard is not scummy and has no inherently scum intent in it.

[Sky_Paladin]

You two are both misrepresenting me. I am not saying that I think Dan is scummy. I am saying that I think he is making mistakes and playing poorly. This is consistent with his miller fiasco.  I also said that I believe this forums scum meta detector is flawed, which is why I'm not voting for Dan (ultimately) and Rou instead. 

[Raikaria]

ZETTAI
UNMEI
MOKUSHIROKU

Shadoweh (0): Serela
Serela (2): Shadoweh, Prims, PX, Zakeri
PX (0): Prims
Prims (0): Serela, PX
ActionDan (2): PX, Roukan, Prims
BT (0): PX
Raikaria (1): PX
PX (3): BigBangMeteor, Serela, BT
Zakeri (1): CF7

Not voting (5): ActionDan, Sky Paladin, NekNekoRex, bofh, Raikaria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have about 36 hours left to vote.

I am voting ActionDan. Silly mod.

I direct you to this post for my 'reasoning'.

## Vote: Actiondan

Adctiondan even called me out on it.

##Unvote
##Vote: Kilgamayan

Sorry for double post, but another piece I just noticed:
This feels like wagon distancing. Do you support the PX case? If so why don't you support it enough to put a vote against it?

I'm not even sure there really is a 'PX case'. Sounds like misrepping silly RVS stuff to me. I mean the two votes from Serela and BBM are clearly not serious, and 'why' and 'clearly the least helpful for the shenanigans' is not a 'case'.

And misrepping is bad.

##Unvote
##Vote: Rousaka

[BT]

That's a really tiny thing to latch on to.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I'm not even sure there really is a 'PX case'. Sounds like misrepping silly RVS stuff to me. I mean the two votes from Serela and BBM are clearly not serious, and 'why' and 'clearly the least helpful for the shenanigans' is not a 'case'.

I'd argue that after Dormio ascended to heaven and became a beautiful star, the RVS phase was more or less over. It gave everyone some definite behaviours to consider and yet PX didn't really clarify his suspicions beyond 'you're all idiots'.

And in the post in question Zakeri quite clearly said 'I'll wait for everyone else to punish PX'. Ergo he clearly thought there WAS a PX case but preferred to pursue his own. I'm really not sure how this qualifies as misrep, all things considered.

In other news, CF7! You're still sitting around with a vote on Zakeri which you never bothered to explain. Was it an RVS vote or did you have reasoning for suspecting Zak?

[Raikaria]

That's a really tiny thing to latch on to.

Well there's a really tiny amount of real, serious content.

'I'll wait for everyone else to punish PX'. Ergo he clearly thought there WAS a PX case but preferred to pursue his own. I'm really not sure how this qualifies as misrep, all things considered.

I took it as a jibe about the sudden 2 votes that had no reasoning at all directed at PX immediately preceding this post.

And if you say 'He wished to persue his own' then what's so bad about that anyway? That just means he thought his choice of vote was more important than the PX votes and 'case' [And I use that term VERY loosely] but wanted to say 'Yeah PX is worth mentioning too.'

Which is hardly a legitimate reason to vote him either.

At worst it's outright misrepping, are best it's exaggeration of the importance of his PX statement. Depends on your interpretation.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I took it as a jibe about the sudden 2 votes that had no reasoning at all directed at PX immediately preceding this post.

I find that a very strange reading given the time and instance. If he didn't have some meaning behind it why was it so important? Two quick votes on one person early out of the RVS stage isn't an extraordinary event.

And if you say 'He wished to persue his own' then what's so bad about that anyway? That just means he thought his choice of vote was more important than the PX votes and 'case' [And I use that term VERY loosely] but wanted to say 'Yeah PX is worth mentioning too.'

Except there was no clear sign that was what he meant until I pressed him on it. I read his 'I'll let everyone else punish PX' as a potential scum play of 'I will vaguely support this wagon to get this player killed, but then because I never actually made a case for it I'll look okay when he flips town.' That is why I pressed him for clarification.

What's your opinion on other cases that have come up today, like the case against Dan or PX's vote on you?

[Raikaria]

I do not think the ActionDan case has much merit; and I am not inclined to comment too much. I don't know meta much; especially about ActionDan; who is rarely in the same game as me. The arguments are based on ActionDan's usual behavior. I tend to stay out of meta arguments unless they are about a player I almost always play with; like Serela, Shadoweh or Dormio.

I don't even care about PX's vote on me. It's RVS where he listed everyone in the whole Captain Planet thing in order. I happened to be last. His vote means nothing; and I already addressed it anyway by saying I did it completely by accident.

I took the timing of the comment about PX as a sign of it not being serious. It was made after his main point; his vote. After his reasoning. It was like a footnote. Thus didn't read as important to me.

[Shadoweh]

I don't like the argument of 'he does this scummy thing when he's town so let's not vote him'. I don't know if Dan has a reputation for this but even if he does I don't think it excuses him.
Also what I don't understand here is why Dan's behaviour doesn't qualify as 'unnecessarily zealous' as well. Immediately snapping at the first person who votes him, pressing the tiniest things on other players, and so on. What made me appear more zealous than him in that case?

The scummy thing Dan tends to do as scum isnt asking alot of questions, it's powerlurking to the point of not being here. I don't think asking questions is scummy anyways. I agree that he's being just as 'zealous' as you are, which is another thing he doesn't tend to do as scum. He has more /care. Since Captain Dormio already escaped, I'd go so far as to say Dan is prob-town and is getting jumped because he has a face.

Because I support the vote against Serela more.
And also because I know PX is going to be an easy target.
And also because Serela already jumped on him with a vague follow-up statement.

I agree Dan's trying too hard to look town but after last game, I'm leaning null on that rather than the usual scum trying to force brownie points.

Are you saying Serela isn't an easy target compared to PX? :V Also if playing the game is Dan trying too hard, I would prefer he always try extra super hard then punish him for it.

I don't think voting for either Rou or Dan is a good idea right now. However town reads are easy to find, so now I will attempt the magic of finding something 'scummy'.

RE: Serela. You have not posted anything I can read beyond 'hoping' DNA got copped. I don't actually think you're having ED1 reactions to stuff because you're super not fluffing it up, which is weird for you. You can start by explaining what 'least helpful RVS reaction' even means.

You two are both misrepresenting me. I am not saying that I think Dan is scummy. I am saying that I think he is making mistakes and playing poorly. This is consistent with his miller fiasco.  I also said that I believe this forums scum meta detector is flawed, which is why I'm not voting for Dan (ultimately) and Rou instead.

I agree there are flaws in what people are saying, but Dan not actually being scummy isn't really a reason to vote Rou. Being zealous is how the ED1 gets played, someone has to make that push on questionable evidence and make something of it. What did Rou do that set you off in particular? It really reads like you're voting for Rou because you think Dan is town.

[WHMZakeri]

Yeah, no, sorry Raikaria but Roukan is 100% innocent so far (which to be clear isn't saying much since ed1). It's clear from the way he worded his post and directed it at me that he was asking me to clarify my stance on PX. It's not strictly a town thing, but it's not going to work as an angle to dig scum up.

@Shadoweh: That's kind of the feeling I get from Dan as well, although I couldn't put it into words because I'm not able to define people's meta nearly as clearly as you just did.

Also voting Serela is very hard for me because he's always town getting picked on for bad play.
But yes, his play this game has ticked an alarm in me. Particularly the way he switched his vote to Huh What for omgus which he'll later just claim "But I was joking, it was rvs!" and also his switch to PX in which BBM is asking why PX made that vote post the way he did, and Serela's like "That's so bad, I'm not even going to question or think about it and just vote for, like, a reason I guess."

brb, rereading Sky because I don't remember why he's suspicious of Roukan and the part where he explains why he's not voting Dan doesn't clarify that.
Ahh, okay, it was because he went after Dan who's probtown now. It makes sense at least.

[ActionDan]

gonna point out that votes reset after Dormio left in case Kilga is annoyed how some people missed it in his mod QT.

##Vote Neko

I could say 'what BT said' and I will say that.  No more passes.  I learned that from last game with Neko.  That post positively radiates mischaracterizations of my play. 

[Raikaria]

Yeah, no, sorry Raikaria but Roukan is 100% innocent so far (which to be clear isn't saying much since ed1). It's clear from the way he worded his post and directed it at me that he was asking me to clarify my stance on PX. It's not strictly a town thing, but it's not going to work as an angle to dig scum up.

Fine; if you say that's the case. But I'm just popping in just before sleep so I got nothin else to go on atm. Will re-read when I'm not about to nod off; but for now:

##Unvote

[Serela]

back from work~

I'm already coming up with plans for a Captain Planet role that changes everything we know about captain planet roles - starting with the fact that they're always itp instant win condition.

After I introduced the Captain Planet role I quickly realized it's a horrible horrible ITP win condition, so I made it a delayed role activator instead. And then functional vanilla that looked like it did something >:V But yeah NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO REALIZE IT'S A BAD ITP WIN CONDITION (Kilga gets points for trying to circumvent how easy it is, but AHAHAHAHA I'm sorry Kilga but at least it was amazing)

Well there's a really tiny amount of real, serious content.

Yeah. While the discussion is slowly getting better as usual, most of it feels even more inane then in normal ed1s. >_> We're getting caught up over semantics with ActionDan? AGAIN?!? Dan being somewhat of an oddball in those regards was a thing before the miller shenanigans last game, we're not going to get anything worth caring about over his reaction to Dormio knowing how to have fun with role shenanigans.

RE: Serela. You have not posted anything I can read beyond 'hoping' DNA got copped. I don't actually think you're having ED1 reactions to stuff because you're super not fluffing it up, which is weird for you. You can start by explaining what 'least helpful RVS reaction' even means.

That's because next to nothing happened before I went to bed last night other then CAPTAIN PLANET HE'S A HERO (or some weird cultist guy apparently?) >:V Anyway, it was "least helpful" because PX just came in and said "lol you're all idiots" and left.

Also voting Serela is very hard for me because he's always town getting picked on for bad play.
But yes, his play this game has ticked an alarm in me. Particularly the way he switched his vote to Huh What for omgus which he'll later just claim "But I was joking, it was rvs!" and also his switch to PX in which BBM is asking why PX made that vote post the way he did, and Serela's like "That's so bad, I'm not even going to question or think about it and just vote for, like, a reason I guess."

wut
Well, I wasn't 100% joking, but probably like, 90%, yes. This was maybe the first not almost completely joking (or captain planet related if you count votes on dormio) vote in the game? (2lazy2reread2see) Anyway, I thought voting PX's post was pretty self-explanatory since all he did was accuse people of being idiots >_> Or at the least, that my one-liner of reasoning explained it. Zakeri's line of how I went about it seems misrep-tier overblown, because even to not-me people it's obvious I at least had some form of reason for the vote. (Which was also still barely-out-of-rvs tier, where to be honest "I'll just vote for like a reason I guess" is a fairly valid thing)

This is what I got from my initial skimming, and from looking over things again... 'k.

Rou/Prims drowning in the AD silliness I gave my opinion on earlier, meh. More actively dislike NNR's reaction to it because it feels much stronger so I disagree with it harder, wheras Prims/Rou could totally just be seeing the first thing worth paying attention to in the game, considering ED1. Bofh is fulfilling his meta by saying he'll post and then it's 12 hours later and he never did, but I feel for him otherwise, because oh god why?

Total agreement with BT, brings up a case pretty much equal to how I feel about NNR except he used more words and specific reasoning which I tend to laze past.

Tired from work and not possessing enough :care: to comment on what I reread past BT's post. Suffice it to say though that I don't think there's much more I can really draw noteworthy conclusions on without waiting for things to develop more, though.

##Unvote ##Vote NekoNekoRex
if I was voting someone else maybe it'd be zakeri, other reads require more posts from people

[Serela]

I need to stop forgetting to disable smilies. I used >:V a lot ;_; It's all ruined.

[BigBangMeteor]

At first I wanted to vote for Dan too because he is being evasive and asking weak questions in a poor attempt to deflect and pretending to answer when not really answering.  But then I thought I am actually really tired and just read the thread and only skimmed a little bit.  In the end I zeroed in on Rousaka because Dan was exactly like that last game when he was miller.  So it's probably patently unfair. 

The bolded highly implies you found Dan suspicious, if you were on the verge of voting him for it. And the stuff you say is certainly worthy of a vote if you feel he is doing all that. But either way, regardless of whether or not you found Dan suspicious, voting Roukanken because they're pushing someone you think is town based on meta they have no ability of knowing is bad.

Anyways I'll be busy for a few hours. Sorry.

[Sky_Paladin]

I am not voting Rou because he is pushing Dan. 

I am voting Rou because I think he is scum.