Author Topic: Justice Juice Mafia Thread I (NIGHT 3)  (Read 104543 times)

Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #960 on: November 11, 2013, 02:55:22 AM »
^ pff oh my god

the second quote cheez quoted is just hilarious

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #961 on: November 11, 2013, 02:57:50 AM »
Anyway, up to page 16. ISO is coming.  Please don't hammer. 
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Cheez8

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #962 on: November 11, 2013, 03:00:13 AM »
Also, "Cheez is scum" is not a valid argument for why Polaris is scum when Cheez is not scum.
To clarify, since this is prime material for being taken out of context: "Cheez is scum" is not a valid argument for why anyone is scum when Cheez is not scum.

Sorry, I got Validon mixed up as Polaris because - and this is actually pretty funny sigh - Validon, Palidan, Polaris.  So many o's and a's and i's.  It was totally Polaris. 
You have my sympathies.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #963 on: November 11, 2013, 03:05:14 AM »
That ISO of Polaris has absolutely no analysis. It's just a recounting of everything he's done this game. The closest it gets to analyzing something he's doing is where you say he's voting Serela with Dormio and even then not really. Cheez also brought up a pretty good point with you saying they're scum for voting you because you thought they were scum.

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #964 on: November 11, 2013, 03:06:19 AM »
I'm not done.  I'm linking everything I need.  I'll analysis when I've finished that pass. 
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BigBangMeteor

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #965 on: November 11, 2013, 03:08:49 AM »
Waiting eagerly.

Also apparently you did follow up on Polaris, so my apologies for that. But I still want reasons for why he's scum other than that he's voting for you to save Cheez.

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #966 on: November 11, 2013, 03:23:37 AM »
OK, where were we?  Ah yes.  Polaris ISO. 

Polaris defends Dormio again.

Then there's this little exchange where Cheez8 and Polaris both joke about being scum. 

Dawn of day 2.  Polaris' opening post looks great.  But at the end, he says this:
Quote
I dunno what to say about Cheez, Sky Palladium, and Dormio but I figure I should mention them for posterity. It really depends on where things go from here for them. Kilga and Darkninja can also fall under this category. I shouldn't need to say Post More Things but do so anyway so that there's more to look at.
 
First of all; he apologises for the mislynch of Serela.  I did it too, but when I did it, Dormio tunnelled me, and he ignored Polaris. 
Then Polaris mentions Cheez8 and Dormio and me.  You know, the same people who are, by coincidence voting for me at the start of today ^_~  BY COINCIDENCE. 

Polaris talks about switching his vote to Shadoweh, and discusses Dormio and I.  He even says "I should probably consider Dormio as an option".  But he doesn't.

Here is Polaris' initial handwave dismissal of everything Mitsuki has to say.

Here is Polaris' next post.  The key quote: "It's ok that Mitsuki has unique and interesting opinions but I'm unhappy with her staunch refusal to care about anyone else, which seems unnecessarily stubborn and could border on tunneling."  This is, ironically, what Polaris is doing right now, to me.  Then he says a third time that Mitsuki's case is dumb without saying why. 

Day 3.  Polaris starts by voting for Cheez8

Then there's this fairly epic post from Mitsuki which sums up why Polaris is scum just from his own, stand alone position and self-contradictions. 

At this point, I voted Polaris because I agreed with Mitsuki's scumread on him, and also because Polaris continued to criticise Mitsuki instead of her arguments.  Isn't that one of those 'attacking the person' logical fallicies?  It's a scumtell all on it's own. 

Then there's this where Polaris back-and-forths about Cheez8 and I as which-one-is-likely-scum. 

In response, Polaris finally for me, but there's no supporting case.  He does earlier say something like that I am sheeping Mitsuki.  Instead of following it up with a reason at the time, he has a pokemon battle >.>;;  Remember, Polaris was already voting for me.  He didn't post a reason for it prior to doing this. 

Then we catch up this current situation, started by my post accusing Dormio, Cheez8, and Polaris.  Okay.  Let's hit post and do the analysis. 
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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #967 on: November 11, 2013, 03:31:47 AM »
the thing about these ISOs is that it proves you are literally making stuff up. if everything you pointed out was truly bad then you should have had some sort of issue with it when it happened. you're only saying it's bad now because you're forcing the evidence to fit with the conclusion you arbitrarily decided beforehand.

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #968 on: November 11, 2013, 03:33:32 AM »
So the actual analysis. 

Overall, I have an impression of a teamwork relationship between Dormio, Polaris, and Cheez8.  They often talk to each other, focus on each other, and ignore other people.  For example, there's that little 'Are you scum' 'maybe are you scum' exchange which was kind of lol.  Then there's the times when Cheez8 and Dormio and Polaris will criticise each other but they never really vote.  Polaris was voting for Cheez8 at the start of the day but as soon as it appears there was a credible threat to Cheez8 in the form of Kilga, switched his vote to me. 

My initial read of Dormio (instead of Polaris) is because while I was away from the computer, I was thinking about Dormio.  In my mind he was more likely scum.  It wasn't until I went back and did the ISO of Dormio that I saw how much he, Polaris, and Cheez8 were interacting. 

In regards to, specifically Polaris - I think out of the three, he is the one I am least confident on.  He has actually done more scumhunting than the other two. 

However, there's alarm bells because of who Polaris specifically defends - especially mid day 1, when Serela voted for Dormio.  Cheez8 was already voting for Dormio, but Polaris only attacked Serela about it - several times.  Why the bias? 

Then there's the fact that Polaris mentions Dormio as somebody who he should look at but never does; even in his night 1 analysis acknowledges that he doesn't have anything to say about Cheez, Dormio, and I. 

The whole handwaving of Mitsuki's arguments was a big red flag for me.  He just attacked Mitsuki and said she was dumb.  Dormio did the same thing.  They didn't dismantle what she said so in my mind it still stands.  When I read this post I was suspicious of Polaris.  When Polaris attacked Mitsuki instead of her argument, saying something like she should go back to Weenie Burger, I felt strongly that Polaris was scum.  That's why I voted for him, at the time. 

I could have expected Polaris to vote for me at that point.  But he didn't.  Instead he went silent and said 'I have to consider'.  I assume this means, confer with his scumbuddies, who they would try to counterlynch to save Cheez8.  And then, there's a vote on me, for nothing more substantial than 'Sky is sheeping Mitsuki'. 

Well, now I am definitely not sheeping Mitsuki, and his reason is 'because Sky is voting for Cheez8'. 

Why do you care if I vote for Cheez8?  Do you, in the face of Kilga's analysis, believe Cheez8 to be town?
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Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #969 on: November 11, 2013, 03:37:43 AM »
I'm back from lunch and laffo.

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #970 on: November 11, 2013, 03:38:38 AM »
Anyway, regardless.  There's more than five people in the town although only five of them appear to be here right now :D 

I'm only seeing attacking me personally arguments from those three.  I am posting lots of points back at them.  There's nothing substantial coming from them, in fact, they are just quoting the things I am saying in the last 12 hours.  There's no history of support to back up their so-called-analysis. 

I've done as you asked.  Now please consider my request, and review what I have had to say more carefully. 

For what reason is Cheez8 voting me?  -> Because he is up for lynch, and I am the strongest counterlynch. 
For what reason is Dormio voting me?  -> ??? Because he thinks I am scum based on my argument that he is scum. 
For what reason is Polaris voting me?  -> ??? Because he wants to save Cheez8. 

Why would Polaris want to save Cheez8 when Kilga's anaylsis shows Cheez8 is very likely scum?
Why is there a game history of Polaris, Cheez8 and Dormio all interacting with the exclusion of most other players?
Why do these three often do the same thing (often in pairs only)? 
Why did Polaris, initially, vote for me?

They'll just say something like 'because we think Sky is scum.' 

But the only reason they thought that in the first place, according to their todays argument, is because of my post from twelve hours ago. 

BUT THEY WERE ALREADY VOTING FOR ME BEFORE THEN.
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Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #971 on: November 11, 2013, 03:40:25 AM »

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #972 on: November 11, 2013, 03:42:36 AM »
Well in the end, it comes down to two votes.  NNR and BBM :) 

Please take the twenty minutes to go-reread the last few pages and make your choice. 

Cheez8 or Sky_Paladin? 

Please consider Cheez8 in the context of the scum team.  You can easily associate him with Dormio and Polaris. 

If you want to vote for me, please consider me in the context of a scum team, and who those people might be.  Are they the ones I am pushing to lynch right now?  The same ones that are voting to lynch me?  How can that be a team?  What combination of players can possibly have me as scum? 

At the very least, you must agree that Cheez8 and I can't be on the same team.  So if you must lynch me today, don't let Cheez8 get away tomorrow. 

Please choose wisely. 
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BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #973 on: November 11, 2013, 03:43:18 AM »
shit I just remembered that my role means there's a good chance that Sky is town sfgfsda

##Unvote

Not particularly up to lynching Sky anymore. I know this is like wtf flip-flop but urgh.

Can we have votals?

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #974 on: November 11, 2013, 03:44:22 AM »
They often talk to each other, focus on each other, and ignore other people.
Pretty sure I've talked to a lot of people during this game. In fact, I'm pretty sure I rarely ever discussed anything with Polaris. The only other people I think I've not had much discussion or debate with were Shadoweh, Mitsuki and NNR.

For what reason is Cheez8 voting me?  -> Because he is up for lynch, and I am the strongest counterlynch. 
Well, duh. Why wouldn't I vote for somebody who I believe to be scum?


....
Huh? The heck is your role?
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #975 on: November 11, 2013, 03:44:37 AM »
well shoot

is this information something you want to divulge or should i just trust you blindly >______>

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #976 on: November 11, 2013, 03:46:20 AM »
Sure :)  Votals are here.

At the moment, I am L-2 and Cheez8 is L-1. 

Cheez8 (4): Kilgamayan, Validon98, Sky_Paladin, Darkninjaabc
Sky_Paladin (3): Dormio, Cheez8, Polaris
Polaris (1): BigBangMeteor
Darkninjaabc (1): NekoNekoRex
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Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #977 on: November 11, 2013, 03:47:53 AM »
This is kind of a last-minute stunt you're pulling but I'm interested in hearing this, especially if it means I'm on the wrong track right now.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #978 on: November 11, 2013, 03:48:31 AM »
^ literally did not read the game

the point of the votecount is to update all the votes you know

cheez - kilga, sky paladin, darkninja
sky paladin - dormio, cheez, polaris
darkninja - nnr, validon

not voting: bbm

Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #979 on: November 11, 2013, 03:48:49 AM »
that was aimed at sky paladin by the way

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #980 on: November 11, 2013, 03:49:06 AM »
Hmm?

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #981 on: November 11, 2013, 03:49:48 AM »
Ah sorry, I just copy pasted from the last update that I saw. 
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BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #982 on: November 11, 2013, 03:50:41 AM »
I don't particularly want to say why. If I die it should be obvious based on what I've said and if I don't I'll out tomorrow. It's just that any explanation other than Sky being town would probably require more role power than I expect town to have in this game.

BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #983 on: November 11, 2013, 03:52:36 AM »
Yeah okay ##Vote: Cheez

Sky's case on Polaris sucks because it relies on associative reads without a flip and sheeps someone I would find scummy if I hadn't replaced into their slot but grr.

Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #984 on: November 11, 2013, 03:53:23 AM »
i hate everything

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #985 on: November 11, 2013, 03:55:36 AM »
Yeah okay ##Vote: Cheez

Sky's case on Polaris sucks because it relies on associative reads without a flip and sheeps someone I would find scummy if I hadn't replaced into their slot but grr.
Thank you. I don't understand why nobody else gets this.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #986 on: November 11, 2013, 03:56:22 AM »
it's kind of ironic you're saying thank you to a post that puts you at l-1

BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #987 on: November 11, 2013, 03:58:24 AM »
I'm inclined to read that as Cheez being scum and giving up but feeling happy that at least someone realized how bad Sky's case is.

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #988 on: November 11, 2013, 03:58:34 AM »
Yeah.

Like I said, it's pretty clear that the immense amounts of uncertainty I've surrounded myself with aren't helping anybody. I've expected to be lynched for a while, so I've just been commenting on reasons and logic while I wait to try to keep people from going too far off course.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: Justice Juice Mafia (DAY 3)
« Reply #989 on: November 11, 2013, 03:58:51 AM »
shoot no that was a response to Palidon I'm not scum
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.