The iDOLM@STER Mafia Thread 1 (Locked)

[DNAbc]

I guess its all beans out of the bag, but anyway, on a whole I was glad I didn't rely on my cop role so exceedingly since d1.

The worst case scenario of what happen would probably be that I cop someone, someone turns out to be town with alt-wincon, wagon lynches townie, cop gets scumread.

I pushed for CF7 at d1 because unlimited cop sounded really fishy. I did expect the neighbourhood qt infected with godfather scum, or just framer scum, which is why I didn't even bother to cop anyone in the qt.

I wasn't tempted to cop CF7 at all back then, he's now leaning on the extreme side of either end, so he would be either nk'd or just lynched.
Therefore I decided on copping the candidates whom I believe we have overlooked.
Serela was most suspicious out of those null reads I had, so I copped him, returned positive, started attack on him.
Then Vhaltz got wagoned before I even reached home, dammit.
The solo wincons pretty much screwed up everyone's mentality, and I see minor suspicions starting to build up around me, therefore I decided to claim.

That's about what happened.

[Serela]

Dude are you people blind?

I claimed having an alternate win condition that is not the town win condition (in addition to the town win condition, but)

That's why I returned positive.

Now, there is the matter of my alternate win condition actually being pretty damn pro-town, but since it gives me an independent not-town win I can totally see it qualifying (It makes sense that all the ITP wins would activate Darkie's power)

However, for the sake of being cooperative and not getting lynched in the face, I'll claim.

Like BT, if I fulfill a certain condition, I obtain the power to vig somebody. Unlike BT, I only get my independent win if I kill someone who opposes my intentions. (My rolepm has some pretty vague wording but it's probably just "scum"; maaaaaybe ITP townies would qualify and now that it comes to mind I'll ask PX, but I don't think they will and I want to kill SCUM and get a TOWN WIN anyway)

There is more to my role, but it's explicitly related to fulfilling my conditions and I don't want to risk actually being able to do so unless you guys really make me. It's not like I ever need to worry about getting nightkilled at this rate >_>

GTG to work BBL

cut by CF7 never claimed unlimited cop what are you smoking, he claimed nighttalk enabler? o_O (Also a non-limited cop wouldn't be that weird, it's a pretty powerful role but not a particularly rare one)

Also we haven't explicitly lost Vhaltz because he can still post, at least.

[Serela]

also while I do still expect to be able to fulfill my conditional I'm preeeeetty sure it's not gonna be for awhile yet after all these shenanigans occuring (don't expect to see me vigging someone before d4)

[Vhaltz]

Lol vig-lyncher combined ITP wincon was something I suspected could exist, but I thought it would work through vigging a specific character instead of scum and I figured I was wrong because nobody was fishing for flavor.

That said I'm still skeptical because of the way Dark said his cops work. It says is looks for non pro-town motives and it could be argued that all ITP wincons are not pro-town but there's at least 4 ITP wincons out there, which means 7/14 would investigate as scum and that makes me feel like it would make a distinction between the ITP wincons that hurt town and the ones that don't, or something.
I also suspect that an existing 5th conditional power may also be an ITP wincon so 8/14 investigating as scum would just make the cop useless as fuck and more of an anti-town role that's expected to mislynch a townie with an ITP wincon and then get lynched right after. That would just makes this game way too scum-slanted and if this were a thing I'd expect literally all townies to have ITP wincons to chase after since the town wincon would be useless.

Yeah I think I still want to lynch you after that. The amount of hard defenses on your slot compared to pretty much everyone else is just too much to be a coincidence.

[Vhaltz]

Also upon mulling this over for a bit it doesn't really make sense for the game to gain two vigs around N3-D4 either. BT's power would've activated after the third hammer.

[DNAbc]

Like BT, if I fulfill a certain condition, I obtain the power to vig somebody. Unlike BT, I only get my independent win if I kill someone who opposes my intentions. (My rolepm has some pretty vague wording but it's probably just "scum"; maaaaaybe ITP townies would qualify and now that it comes to mind I'll ask PX, but I don't think they will and I want to kill SCUM and get a TOWN WIN anyway)

There is more to my role, but it's explicitly related to fulfilling my conditions and I don't want to risk actually being able to do so unless you guys really make me. It's not like I ever need to worry about getting nightkilled at this rate >_>

GTG to work BBL

cut by CF7 never claimed unlimited cop what are you smoking, he claimed nighttalk enabler? o_O (Also a non-limited cop wouldn't be that weird, it's a pretty powerful role but not a particularly rare one)

Also we haven't explicitly lost Vhaltz because he can still post, at least.

I was messing up my wording, thought i guess for the sake of clarity i will rephrase my mindset.

When I was given the role PM, I thought unlimited cop and  was too good to be true, so I either expect myself to be insane, mafia to have blockers, and et cetra.

Which is exactly why I didn't cop CF7 N1, I assumed he would either be framed or happens to be the godfather. Nor anyone in our QT for if scum was mixed in there they would probably have immunity.

Of course later we all realized what happened, it wasn't that the cop result is going to be unreliable, its that there's simply a bunch of town ITP wincons.

Notice how swift and passionately conqueror pushed for the respective wagons for pretty much any candidate. His dedication is also completely lacking in pursuing any of his cases.
tl;dr he jumps on the someone, forms a case and chases them continuously while only showing minimal interest for other factors (lurking SB for being a highly overlooked example).

Is there any reasons behind? Possibly related with your alignment/wincon/abilities?

[WHMZakeri]

That's an interesting take on sanity. Instead of limiting the number of times they can cop, the mod just goes and makes LITERALLY EVERYBODY SCUM.

I've looked into Vahltzo's Case on Serela from a while back, and I don't have anything to bring up against it.
It's worth noting that any scum can claim to have an added ITP condition if they find themselves targeted by Ninja's cop. Although, considering that Serela's been dancing around that since before Ninja's claim, it's probably not made up.

[Vhaltz]

I've looked into Vahltzo's Case on Serela from a while back, and I don't have anything to bring up against it.
It's worth noting that any scum can claim to have an added ITP condition if they find themselves targeted by Ninja's cop. Although, considering that Serela's been dancing around that since before Ninja's claim, it's probably not made up.

One of these sentences implies you'd be cool with lynching Serela. The other implies that you think he is town with an ITP wincon.

Can you be a little clearer about what you think of Serela right now?

[WHMZakeri]

Umm ... to be honest, it's kind of both.

Reading his posts, I've usually been able to tell when he's super townie despite (or in some cases because of) his way of fumbling around with the game, but that's not there this game. Skipping out on a large part of the day and reappearing after deadline is a pretty damning piece of evidence as well.

I think the only thing that's iffy about a scum!serela is that I can see a few places that might look like breadcrumb for his conditional role. I don't think straight up scum would have that planned out in advanced, unless he's a mafia with ITP bonus variant.

As a result, the read as a whole is null-scum.

[SB]

ugh, sorry, I just can't keep up with two games at once right now

Requesting replacement

[Conqueror]

thisgame.jpg

Notice how swift and passionately conqueror pushed for the respective wagons for pretty much any candidate. His dedication is also completely lacking in pursuing any of his cases.
tl;dr he jumps on the someone, forms a case and chases them continuously while only showing minimal interest for other factors (lurking SB for being a highly overlooked example).

I really hope you're not invested in this Serela lynch because you think I'm defending a Serela scumbuddy, since that's just dumb. Also, how am I lacking in dedication for my cases? Have you ever seen any of my towngames where I relentlessly push my lynches or are did you only read my scumgame where I poke at everyone minimally?

Serela has been crumbing a ITP role since forever. I want Serela to make explicit the terms of his vig ability and condition though for various reasons.

(ftr you can cop me if you want but it'll be a waste of time)

[Conqueror]

stupid browser crash. let's try that again.

That said I'm still skeptical because of the way Dark said his cops work. It says is looks for non pro-town motives and it could be argued that all ITP wincons are not pro-town but there's at least 4 ITP wincons out there, which means 7/14 would investigate as scum and that makes me feel like it would make a distinction between the ITP wincons that hurt town and the ones that don't, or something.
I also suspect that an existing 5th conditional power may also be an ITP wincon so 8/14 investigating as scum would just make the cop useless as fuck and more of an anti-town role that's expected to mislynch a townie with an ITP wincon and then get lynched right after. That would just makes this game way too scum-slanted and if this were a thing I'd expect literally all townies to have ITP wincons to chase after since the town wincon would be useless.

If the cop is as claimed, I doubt there's a distinction between ITP wincons. There's also the option of a mafia cop (because a part of me doubts that even PX would put a PGO ITP cop in a game) but I'm not really leaning that way.

Yeah I think I still want to lynch you after that. The amount of hard defenses on your slot compared to pretty much everyone else is just too much to be a coincidence.

The only hard defense on the Serela slot iirc has been from me, so I'll repeat that thinking I'm defending a Serela scumbuddy is a dumb reason for wanting to lynch Serela. Don't be biased against me, Vhaltz.  :3


actually i have a question for darkninja because something doesn't quite add up. what happens if you're nightkilled by town? does that townie become and innocent child?

[Conqueror]

That means I scumread you and your every single argument, Conqueror, I shall be taking it on you, just not now.

Fight me. Bring out your Serela arguments again if we're going to do this. The argument that Serela "has a non-town wincon" won't cut it since I think it's pretty likely Serela is ITP.

[Vhaltz]

SB also hard defended Serela for reasons that were really iffy.

I'm not biased Conq I just think you're scum because other people aren't scum and almost every scumteam I think of includes you :V

Ftr Ninja crumbed his role in the quicktopic early D1 and his crumb and claim combined are at least 500% more believable than Serela's RVS joke and claim.

Why do you not want to lynch Serela so badly Conq?

[Conqueror]

would be nice if shadoweh and zakeri would do something other than point fingers at each other and go "na na na"


also realized i should probably respond to this:

(lurking SB for being a highly overlooked example).

SB's posting has seemed relatively fine to me. SB is usually a hard read for me (as in I've scumread his playstyle incorrectly so many times that I've pretty much given up) so I usually leave him up to other people. The amount of lurking he's doing here is about normal compared with the lurking in his other town games. Of course, I haven't seen a scum game of his, so etc.

[Conqueror]

SB also hard defended Serela for reasons that were really iffy.

I'm not biased Conq I just think you're scum because other people aren't scum and almost every scumteam I think of includes you :V

Ftr Ninja crumbed his role in the quicktopic early D1 and his crumb and claim combined are at least 500% more believable than Serela's RVS joke and claim.

Why do you not want to lynch Serela so badly Conq?

-.- Well, I'm not scum so your scumteams are wrong and your assumptions are wrong. Look, take the position that I'm town, which I am, and look at the game again because this is warping your view of the game.
As for the second question, I don't think Serela is scum. Look, if I were mafia I'd be all over this lynch; it'd be the easiest thing ever in the world with a claimed guilty. I think this entire tangent is a red herring. I think this cop role, if it's town, is intended to be a red herring with all the false positives. Why would a cop crumb early D1 in a way obvious to everyone in a QT, even if it's only a few people? I think it's possible that darkninja has another facet of his ITP wincon that he hasn't mentioned, given that at the time of his claim he wasn't even under pressure and so this could just be a drive for the win.

Ftr I never base reads off of crumbs because they're not reliable alignment tells.

[Conqueror]

Also upon mulling this over for a bit it doesn't really make sense for the game to gain two vigs around N3-D4 either. BT's power would've activated after the third hammer.

under normal circumstances it's unlikely that bt's power would ever activate
also i wouldnt be surprised at 2 vigs, 3 vigs, or even 4 vigs in the game with all the shenanigans going on

[Conqueror]

okay screw it
##unvote
##vote nnr
he's been pretty much coasting since d1 after people like me were townreading him; this latest blank serela vote is just icing on the cake

[Conqueror]

As for why I think Serela is town, it has to do with the energy of his posting. I think you know what I mean Vhaltz. Like take the latest push on ActionDan by Serela. I don't think it's something he would push that hard as scum. As scum he'd just jump on with meh reasoning like in Final Fantasy mafia or whatever game it was when he jumped on NNR for really superficial reasons.

[Conqueror]

I'm not biased Conq I just think you're scum because other people aren't scum and almost every scumteam I think of includes you :V

coming back to this statement because it kinda annoys me on a personal (aka not this specific game) level when I've been towninating all over the place while other people are derping around. Am I just held to a higher standard of towniness or whatever? Next time I'll just play dumb and drop fake towntells and make empty votes on people I think are scum.

but on a more serious note, thinking I'm nebulous PoE scum is just dumb. Bring out your concerns and we'll hash them out in the thread because this isn't useful to anyone (and I hate being around in endgame and being suspected makes me less likely to die overnight, so :V)

[Vhaltz]

He's been pretty much coasting since d1 after people like me were townreading him; this latest blank serela vote is just icing on the cake

This case is bad and you should feel bad.

Show timestamps and how any of his play post-AtE classifies as coasting.

[Vhaltz]

Also why would NNR as scum would resort to AtE with only one vote on him from a slot that was heavily suspected at the time

[Vhaltz]

I also like how you apparently find it ok for two vigs to pop simultaneously into an 11vs3 game at N3/D4 phases where MyLo is either imminent or happening (it renders one of them useless for town, BT would use his because it allowed him to achieve his wincon immediately but Serela's as claimed so far would make him risk a loss after BT's shot), but a PGO ITP wincon for a cop to balance out all the other ITP wincons hurting town is a really ridiculous role just because it is when taking it out of the game's context.

You also can't really say your reads have been more accurate than anybody else's so far this game because both Raikaria and Mitsuki/I have flipped town.

[Conqueror]

Also why would NNR as scum would resort to AtE with only one vote on him from a slot that was heavily suspected at the time

Christ. Why is using AtE a scumtell or a towntell? It's not.

This case is bad and you should feel bad.

Show timestamps and how any of his play post-AtE classifies as coasting.

If I forget someone's playing in the game, they're coasting. Okay seriously, how do you not classify his play as coasting.

My god you're actually going to make me do this.

Oh, it was reset, neato.

##Vote: Serela

coasting on a cop claim without any other commentary

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

I thought about it a bit and decided that a complete lack of scumhunting is worse then anti-town play from Validon. Although I guess that makes Validon my #2

I still feel like Ninja is simply too ridiculous to be scum, I expect his scumbuddies would be trying to help him not make terrible posts. Maybe needs to be vigged to make sure, imo.

Do you think I'm doing any better Valthz or do you think I'm still scum? Thoughts on my blurb on Validon?

I'm ISOing Palidin atm too

I'm  not waffling on Shadoweh, in the sense I think he might be town, I'm just unsure if he's worth voting or not over someone I actually have gut and a case on.

All I have on Shadoweh is "made a vote on Raikaria, sheeped Conq later to support the vote, pushed the wagon to eternity", while his posts don't sour my gut any.
I don't actually know/recall what Scum!Shadoweh is supposed to read like though

coasting by hopping onto the shadoweh wagon with weak reasoning after waffling on him

I basically haven't had time to ISO people until I finally got home from school after my internet was too shoddy most of the day to load anything, and class, and my commute home, and it stagnated my reads as a result. Anyway, ISO time.

So I started with Validon.

As of Post 221,
The first thing I don't like about Validon is that he blindly trusts the doc claim, which a lot of the other players pointed as null (I certainly wasn't voting Raikaria for the claim). I don't like how he simply dismisses the case on Raikaria without any real reasoning behind it. There's some blind trust of CF7's claim as well as the "don't lynch" read, instead of having reasons to find him town that are legitimate (like again, I find him town for the way he repeated Mirai Nikki with his claim, it's another genuine misread he isn't likely to do as scum).

Afterwards...He rubs the whole "I white-knighted Raikaria" until the ennnnnnd! thing, which is really bad to do as town. (I actually alluded to this earlier, indirectly in my post #355). I don't really care myself if it was peer pressure or whatnot myself, but the lynch was inevitable, agreement or not.

As is that point would be null, though. ...Except he spends an entire page ranting about it, which is really ridiculous.
Where is the big Shadowh case I was promised?

He's basically vanished now, but I'm disappointed he wasted all his time glorifying his Raikaria Defender cred instead of pushing a Shadoweh case.

(I actually have to ride the bus again now so more ISOs will have to wait)

##Vote:Validon since that is literally all I have until I reread other people.

iso of a random lurker to show content but this is all dropped now and there's no followup.

[Conqueror]

I also like how you apparently find it ok for two vigs to pop simultaneously into an 11vs3 game at N3/D4 phases where MyLo is either imminent or happening (it renders one of them useless for town, BT would use his because it allowed him to achieve his wincon immediately but Serela's as claimed so far would make him risk a loss after BT's shot), but a PGO ITP wincon for a cop to balance out all the other ITP wincons hurting town is a really ridiculous role just because it is when taking it out of the game's context.

You also can't really say your reads have been more accurate than anybody else's so far this game because both Raikaria and Mitsuki/I have flipped town.

Okay, fuck you. I'm also a conditional vig, okay? I wouldn't be surprised if half the game were vigs because trolololol PX setup.
And yes, a PGO ITP wincon for a cop is ridiculous in the game's context. How does it balance out all the ITP wincons hurting town? It doesn't. You're just piling on bullshit on top of bullshit.

If you're going to attack the accuracy of my reads, then screw you. How about the accuracy of your reads, eh? Mitsuki was wrong on Raikaria. You're wrong on me. So that puts us about even and you're confirmed town, eh? So I guess I'm not really doing that bad! I've taken time out of real life stuff that I should have been doing instead to post in this game when it looks like no one cares. Like today, people are just sitting on Shadoweh or Serela or Zakeri or whoever and going blah blah blah. And now we're all sitting around the tree going wheeee cop result on a claimed ITP.
Look, if I think someone is scum, I'm going to push them. That's the way I play, that's the way I've always played. If you think that sitting on my haunches and dropping in to make an "accurate" vote on scum once in a blue moon is better town play, then sure, go with that. Have fun.

I think I need a break from mafia after this. This game pisses me off more than it used to.

[Conqueror]

I'd replace out here because this game pisses me off but there are apparently two other people ready to replace so lol. Are we going to get mass modkills for them or what?

[I have no name]

Trying to break the setup is lame.  I'm not paying too much attention to ~*role shenanigans*~ because if someone is scummy on their own merits in thread, I'm going to want them lynched regardless of what role they claim.  After all, PX said -everyone- can get fakeclaims.

Since votes reset I'll re-##Vote: ActionDan for now because I don't care how good his quicktopic play is, it's easier to fool 3 people than a dozen and I don't trust anything I'm not seeing with my own eyes.

darkninja's claim doesn't clear him, IMO.  Enough time past that it could have been coached and even though I'll admit the ED1 slapfight is likely town it could just as easily be explained by a newer player not knowing when to back down.

Going to re-read NNR/Serela/Shadoweh/Zakeri/Validon and see if my opinions on them change, though at the moment I still suspect I want Shadoweh lynched over anyone else in that list.  Why is the entire game scum  :derp:

Look, if I think someone is scum, I'm going to push them. That's the way I play, that's the way I've always played. If you think that sitting on my haunches and dropping in to make an "accurate" vote on scum once in a blue moon is better town play, then sure, go with that. Have fun.

+1

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Good Morning from Australia

Song: Hello!!

ActionDan (1) - Serela, I have no name
Shadoweh (1) - Zakeri
Serela (2) - Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex
NekoNekoRex (1) - Conqueror
Not Voting: CF7, Shadoweh, ActionDan, Sky Paladin, Validon98, Serious Bananas

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||(90%)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[I have no name]

Actually lemme just post this quick list of things just to organize my thoughts a little better
CF7/me: Town
Shadoweh: Scum?  Need to re-read
Vhaltz: Stump
Raikaria: ded
NNR: I thought he was pretty town but Conq has good points so I'll re-read and re-evaluate
ActionDan: LURKSCUM by thread, active town by QT that I can't see apparently?
Sky Paladin: ObvTown
Validon: Un-memorable either way...
SB: ProbTown
Conq: ProbTown
darkninja: I honestly don't know, which is why I'm going to re-read
BT: ded
Serela: I don't know what to think
Zakeri: lurky, though usually lurky?  Unmemorable though, so re-read

NNR/Serela/Shadoweh/Zakeri/Validon/darkninja=6 people to re-evaluate, which I'll do after I eat some food.  Waking up at 4 PM sucks.
At least my overall understanding of this game is slightly improved...and a whole lot more confusing.

[Serela]

zakeri you realize I -outright claimed having a ITP win- before Darkie did his cop thing, right?

It's not a matter of planning it in advance, I literally claimed it >_>

Although yeah there is the start-of-the-game crumb too but w/e

Noteable notes:Darkie was the cop crumb in the QT at the start of the game (and the reason the neighbors were assuming all in the QT to be town), Me+BT+Conq have all claimed and/or flipped as conditional vigs that lead to ITP wins in some fashion.

Vhaltz, what does SB hard defending me have to do with anything? If you think I'm scumbuddies with SB so much you're sure SB is scum, go lynch SB. >_> For that matter there's more people then SB going around defending me. (See:Conq, who is p.town imo, and Shadoweh and flipped town BT have both declared me solidly not-scum even if they weren't exactly hard defending me) Townreading me is not some strange incident isolated to Conqueror.

Darkninja's cop isn't "fucking useless" because getting a town result still declares someone to be town, which is still pretty powerful.

And on the matter of the ITP vigs, I don't know about Conq, but so far they seem pretty damn hard to actually activate. It'd be safe for a mod to assume one-to-zero of them would actually get to fire. Hammering 3 times means D4 if you actually pull it off every day, and don't get lynched/nk'd by then- those are actually pretty low odds.

As for claiming my conditional, I'll consider doing that if it actually looks like I'm going to be lynched today.

Just got home from work so I'm going to relax for a little before getting to rereading and stuff (Plenty of people I need to evaluate!) but I'm still here for non-intensive responses to things

ActionDan: LURKSCUM by thread, active town by QT that I can't see apparently?

At this point I think the bulk of the in-qt reasoning for Dan being town was just the pass given over Darkie crumbing cop and not getting nightkilled. BUT I HAVE NO IDEA SO NEIGHBORS CAN CORRECT ME ON THIS