Mirai Nikki Mafia (Day 5 LYLO)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Dormio, what do you have to say to the one-line rebuttal to your 50-line case, that Raikaria acts similarly to this in most of his games?

That it's scummy, and I will vote him for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Dormio, is Raikaria your only scum read?

No, but I need to actually organize my thoughts surrounding the others, and I have classes and other stuff to do.
I'll get around to posting about other people later. Maybe.

Dormio, the fact that you're hyperfocussing on Raikaria to the point of writing walls about him and nothing about anybody else is Really, Really Bad.

?\_(ツ)_/?

Dormio's 185 is too wordy and lucid to come from a day one town dormio. I agree with the later assesments that it feels like scum trying to gather enough solid reasoning to have a flawless vote where one shouldn't exist.
This really brings the point home. His immediate response to the accusation is to point out that there's no holes in the logic he used.

I'm all for discussion, though.

Also Serela is being useless and I don't like NNR calling Serela's fluff "content".

Warning - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Yeah trying to make a post while I'm also writing down notes isn't working out all that well.

[Serela]

Also Serela is being useless

there is an overabundance of people doing things worth voting them over

the things in question are very simple and can be adequately explained in a single sentence

it's not my fault they're making it too easy, I'm even asking them to stop

...okay, on a more serious note, stuff like the blank unvoting is obviously not an entire reason to vote someone by itself, but pretty much there's a grab bag of people doing things that are bad (yet not explicitly scummy, but what do you expect this early anyway) and I think at this point the pressure should be more on them to improve before there's just too much inadequacy.

The people who can't deliver better content are more likely to be scum then the ones that don't. I care more about who fails to get better then who doesn't look great in the first 24 hours of the game. Regardless of whatever else I said I think those two sentences are probably the most important thing about my current opinions

[Serela]

on them to improve before there's just too much inadequacy.

what the heck was I even trying to say

it's 1:30am I'm sorry

[Conqueror]

I feel like I've already made it clear that there are at least answers that would have satisfied me.

I tried to write up a coherent response to this but the best I can come up is with
Given stuff like this

What I want are the reasons for you saying this, and I can think of three - one that makes you scum, one that makes you null, and one that is impossible in this setup.

I don't really see how his answer would have been relevant at all. Like, I'm trying to run my thought process through this but I can't follow through the logic. If he's scum he's not going to give an answer that makes him scum? So in any case the answer he gives is going to be null? Like I said, what was the point of the exercise? A trap?

Also the point about my stance on Raikaria - What's wrong with letting people talk about something just because I don't care? Raikaria's not in danger of getting lynched at the point, so I have no reason to defend him directly.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the situation at the time? Raikaria was getting a decent amount of negative pressure, and it could have easily gone to a lynch, so no idea where you're getting that he wasn't in danger of getting lynched?

Dormio's 185 is too wordy and lucid to come from a day one town dormio. I agree with the later assesments that it feels like scum trying to gather enough solid reasoning to have a flawless vote where one shouldn't exist.
This really brings the point home. His immediate response to the accusation is to point out that there's no holes in the logic he used.

Ahahaha, nope. I'm making an executive declaration right now that all cases about Dormio being scummy because of his style of casemaking are invalid. It essentially boils down to a playstyle attack and it's invalid when you look at stuff like town!Dormio's stupid wallfights with Chocola in Micro 31. I'm wary of how many people are pushing this point because it's an easy way to discredit Dormio and paint him as scum.

That said, Dormio, if you're town here, throw me a bone. What makes this different from the Raikaria you've seen in other games, and why are you ignoring the rest of the game just to talk about Raikaria? Cut by Dormio: oh, okay, as long as you post it. What do you think about Zak btw?

[Conqueror]

serela im sure you have rudimentary voting priorities, pls share

[Conqueror]

That it's scummy, and I will vote him for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

also dormio this statement you made basically sums up my point: if you think he's scummy in every game, don't you think you should recalibrate your scumdar a little to allow for that? not saying raikaria is def!town in this game, but just saying, maybe you just dislike his face.
i just dont want micro 31 all over again pls no not that game

[NekoNekoRex]

I don't think Zak is very town atm, tbh, he doesn't have any scumreads and his vote isn't actually too good.
Mostly reluctant to vote him because he has so few thoughts on other players.

[BigBangMeteor]

I might not have said anything about Zak, but I don't think I've talked only about Dormio.

I could go for a Zak lynch though, he just keeps talking about possible scum intent behind declaring Serela confirmed town when Prims already covered why there isn't really much scum intent there. If Zak seriously thinks there IS scum intent, he should explain what it is instead of just saying it exists. Also I find Dormio suspicious but Zak's reasons for it look really weird. Too tired right now to place my finger on it exactly. I'll consider it in the morning.

Dormio, why are you sadfaecing to Prims's comment on your hypertunnel rather than actually commenting on other people? Okay, we get that you can't go fully into depth right now because you're busy, but even just throwing down the identities of these other scumreads and leaving it at that until you have time is still better than vaguely promising that you might talk about someone else.

Conq- between your first assessment of Raikaria and your latest, he's had only two posts- #173 and #174. What made you change from "same as always" to "actually his play can't be dismissed". I'm not in favour of just dismissing someone because they're always scummy either, but at least it means that you try to look for the more minor things that differ between their scum and town play. Also cut by your last post- why are you suddenly asking Dormio why Raikaria is different this game than normal when you just said that you also believe this, or at least believe that it doesn't matter if he isn't?

Considering right now whether I'd rather vote Dormio or BT. BT's self-deprecation looks out of place and his blatant lack of any sort of commitment despite raising some valid points is bad. Plus 75% of his content revolves around pushing Raikaria even though he's not voting Raikaria and doesn't find him scummy. Also what someone (Kilga?) pointed out, that pushing Schezo for not going gung-ho in his offence against NNR when BT doesn't even have an offence is pretty hypocritical. I also don't remember his play being so bleh in the 3-4 games I've played with him.

[Schezo]

wooooooooowowowowowwow

I see someone with a blank unvote, another person with a blank unvote, someone who never had a case on anyone to start with, someone voting HW over calling me confirmed town until they give up and go back to an ed1 vote, and...

Serela you better call the fucking cops for that line because Jesus.  I want to punch you in the teeth for this "naughty naughty you gaiz" attitude when you literally said fuck all in the 4 posts you made just now.  Ok cool.  There was some textbook scum stuff done page 5.  Why don't you hard call someone out instead of this general handwave nonsense you're pulling?  Whoever said 203 was actual content got tricked by the vaugeness Serela pulled with it.  It looks like he's doing something but when you really look at it I have no idea who he wants to vote since the whole "anyone can be justified in being voted here" thing is ludicrous given that he hasn't voted anyone.  I mean you gonna call 4+ people out, vote someone.  Shit.

I mean Dormio just called him out on this and he does the same fucking thing 211 hoooooooooooooooooooooooooly
Notice.  None of the people he called out are Raikaria who his vote is currently on.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Serela

NNR don't make a post with that codebox ever again it stretches my screen.  Thank you.

Given that I actually read Dormio's case when it seems some of you haven't the only thing I really have problems with are his inability to give other people the attention he gives Raikaria which seems to me to be :derp:
I don't dismiss it just for being huge if anything I'm writing it off because of tunnel vision and there is no comparison to how he thinks other players are to Raikaria.

gonna get this post out there because I'm having a hard time wording how I want to respond to Zakeri

[WHMZakeri]

zakeri continuing to push the "confirmed town" point and choosing to ignore all the everything else that has already happened in the thread is going for refuge in audacity. like, seriously.

Would it help if I told you I had a reason?

I agree there are a lot of people being bad for various reasons, but it's important to sort them out individually. Just going by the people Serela mentions in 206 (minus myself) ...

BT hasn't made a single vote all game. I guess the only reason people are going after my supposed votepark is because I'm not doing a good job of hiding like a scum would and instead trying to put myself out there to get an answer for my vote. I Ignored it in favor of him defending against the vote on NNR, but trying to ISO him is painful because you can't even tell what he's talking about without other people's posting for context. There's absolutely no content here.

As for Raikaria ... well, I'm getting really sleepy right now and I feel like even if I read him I'd get a null reading since his meta makes him resistant to every reason I remember reading people are suspicious of.
NNR as well, I've already explained a little about why I think he's town, but he's clearly voting and moving his vote around to gather information. The later votes and arguments against all feel like targeting his confusion and frusteration in order to make him look statistically bad.

CF7 is, if we are going to start punishing lurkers on principal, a good place to start, but it's much more null than where BT is at right now.

Most people who weren't voting you were not talking about you. You can't seriously argue everyone is paying attention to you.

I can't argue it anymore than you can argue that nobody is paying attention to a guy who currently shares the tag of "Most likely to be lynched" at time of writing. As deadline approaches, just being one of the leading wagons is going to force people to look into me in due time. Unless you all magically forget about me, you're not going to just ... forget about me.

I'm starting to see why my thought process is hard to follow when you're not me, I blame my lack of foresight for that, but I'll try to accommodate with future explanations.

If he's scum he's not going to give an answer that makes him scum? So in any case the answer he gives is going to be null?

But this is exactly what I'm asking for. If he gave an answer it would end up being null rather than town ... but I'm not voting people I have null reads on.
If he's town and has a reason, then why not give it?
If he's town and doesn't have a reason, which everyone seems to believe ... then why not admit it?
I'm voting him because he's being incredibly evasive, and I don't like it.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the situation at the time? Raikaria was getting a decent amount of negative pressure, and it could have easily gone to a lynch, so no idea where you're getting that he wasn't in danger of getting lynched?

I don't remember how many games you've had with Raikaria, but it's getting to be a tired old tune. I tend to pay more attention to content of posts rather than votecounts on day one, so it didn't even register to me if he was in danger of getting lynched at the time I brushed it off. It's also pretty much the fact that it's the first 24 hour period and MotK is known for stretching days out as long as possible even when that's a bad idea.

Ahahaha, nope. I'm making an executive declaration right now that all cases about Dormio being scummy because of his style of casemaking are invalid. It essentially boils down to a playstyle attack

...So it's just a playstyle attack, regardless of the fact that I think the reason the post was written that way was directly because of a difference between scum and town's approach to casemaking?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Schezo stop voting Confirmed Town.

I'm 100% serious when I say my role PM tells me Serela is town-aligned.

[Paperblade]

Is there a way to read isos on this forum software or do I actually have to reread the thread? Haven't reread for that Zak thing yet because of that but as I mentioned earlier I didn't really like CF7's posts but he's not been around in a while. No one else has seemed too unreasonable but I'd need to double check that.

@Yosh: I don't like your argument because it feels like you're trying too hard to find a scumread where none exists. Which is pretty scummy.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Okay, we get that you can't go fully into depth right now because you're busy, but even just throwing down the identities of these other scumreads and leaving it at that until you have time is still better than vaguely promising that you might talk about someone else.

CF7, Serela, NNR (?), need rereads on HW/Kilga.

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Yeah....

[Serela]

None of the people he called out are Raikaria who his vote is currently on.

but raikaria -is- one of the five people I called out

[Conqueror]

Conq- between your first assessment of Raikaria and your latest, he's had only two posts- #173 and #174. What made you change from "same as always" to "actually his play can't be dismissed". I'm not in favour of just dismissing someone because they're always scummy either, but at least it means that you try to look for the more minor things that differ between their scum and town play. Also cut by your last post- why are you suddenly asking Dormio why Raikaria is different this game than normal when you just said that you also believe this, or at least believe that it doesn't matter if he isn't?

I'm saying that if his play is always scummy, then you can't make cases that that person's scum for his typical behaviour. At the same time, you can't just dismiss them and say "they're always scummy." So basically, yeah I agree that you look for the minor stuff that makes someone townie or scummy. It's why I'm waiting for Raikaria's reads update to solidify an actual read on him. It's also why I asked Dormio the question I did, because I think Dormio is missing the forest for the trees.

[Conqueror]

Is there a way to read isos on this forum software or do I actually have to reread the thread?

click a person's name to get to their profile, then show posts. it shows all their posts across the forum so it's a little inconvenient for some users, but it's better than nothing.

[BigBangMeteor]

Zak- you argue that you are in the spotlight because even though not that many people are talking about you, you are a leading wagon due to votecounts. Yet you say later in the post when you're talking about Raikaria that you don't even pay attention or care much about votecounts. Reconcile this please.

anyways good night

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Very slowly responding to :wikipedia:.

also dormio this statement you made basically sums up my point: if you think he's scummy in every game, don't you think you should recalibrate your scumdar a little to allow for that? not saying raikaria is def!town in this game, but just saying, maybe you just dislike his face.

It's the most interesting thing, so it's what I'm going to stick with. I mean just because he does this as town doesn't mean that he doesn't do it as scum.
In fact, it should be more pronounced when he's scum, and I think it's more pronounced right now, so yeah.

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Screw this.

[Conqueror]

asdfksadjhljl

trying this again

If he's town and has a reason, then why not give it?

I'm 100% serious when I say my role PM tells me Serela is town-aligned.

at this point huhwhat has stated stuff to this effect multiple times in the thread. do you have any reason to disbelieve this? i can tell  that you're paying attention to other players from your latest post, so if so... why are you still sticking to this? either huhwhat's pm doesn't say serela is town-aligned, in which case i can't fathom how that makes huhwhat more likely to be scum than town, or it does say that serela is town-aligned, in which case we don't need to know any more. unless you're going to make the case that huhwhat scum is protecting serela for some reason?

...So it's just a playstyle attack, regardless of the fact that I think the reason the post was written that way was directly because of a difference between scum and town's approach to casemaking?

No, I'm saying Dormio's cases are always nitpicky, if he bothers making them. What would town!Dormio's case on Raikaria look like if you're making that claim?

[WHMZakeri]

still futilely responding to every six posts before my last post. There's nothing important there, guess I'll move on and FINALLY.
of course, now that it's happened, I'm racked with doubts. I've got no choice but to be forward with it though since I've lead everyone around with it.

Basically, I'm counter claiming Huh what. My role tells me that there is a Yukiteru Amano and that he is sided with the town.
Him claiming this role was basically the scenario that caused me to think he was scum.

Zak- you argue that you are in the spotlight because even though not that many people are talking about you, you are a leading wagon due to votecounts. Yet you say later in the post when you're talking about Raikaria that you don't even pay attention or care much about votecounts. Reconcile this please.

Like I said, I don't pay attention to votecounts. HW's claim that I was leading cause me to think I had one or two more votes than I did, or at least more than anyone else did. I overreacted.

[WHMZakeri]

I guess I already addressed the first half of your post.

I guess I'll relax the Dormio point in your favor. At the very least it would require digging through more meta than I'm comfortable using at once.

[Conqueror]

ughh

what makes you think that
1) there couldnt be two such roles in a game?
2) your role makes huhwhat's claim scum?

##unvote
##vote bt

too tired to figure out what's going on right now, will look at this tomorrow.

[Conqueror]

~_~
also explains why zak was hung up on that the way he was but seriously this entire line of inquiry looks like a red herring now, especially as shadoweh told us not to outguess the mod. there's the also the obvious option that huhwhat was initially joking, so i dont know why you took it super seriously >_>

[Serela]

What a coincidence HW, my rolepm also confirms to me that Serela is town

I was going to turn this into a post of using zakeri as an example of why I do things but I'm just too tired so I'm going to bed instead

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

So Serela is literally going to do nothing for the entirety of D1, huh?

[Schezo]

Well I was going to say Zak was derping it up harping about HW but now I feel trolled.
I mean the CC is like "I guess" but I don't know it feels too setup gamey for me.  I really don't have any problems with Zakeri once he started talking about others.

Paperblades has made 2 drivebys at Dormio for the words case and I think isos are coming but there's a huge gaap of content here.

Serela is still the most frustrating thing I've seen all game.  I don't know I'll go with HW's confirmed town thing for now.
##Unvote:
##Vote: BT

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Zak's claim doesn't really make me feel better about him; he could easily have that role as non-town.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Actually Zak is probably SK.

[Conqueror]

kind of a risky play for zak!sk to make though wouldnt it?
this is why i hate rolegaming and making plays based off rolegaming, it makes people impossible to read

[Conqueror]

zak, if you're town, move your vote somewhere else unless you're going to make a huhwhat!scum case independent of the claim. im not touching this claim business with a 10 foot pole.