Town Mafia (Game Over)

[WHMZakeri]

Bedcount
Raitaki:            ActionDan (1)
ActionDan:      BT, Validon98, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:     Dormio (1)

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to kill.
You have 69.5 Hours left in the day
v--Because I forgot numbers.

[Validon98]

Whoa, hold the phone here: How is ActionDan at K-2 if it takes six votes to lynch?
Also, something I didn't mention earlier because I wasn't sure if it was important or not: It's Dormio's "day" posts. They're all about complaining about Steam or something. It's kind of reminding me a bit of Polaris/Celery's role where he posted a bunch of celery puns in order to fulfill a condition for a new power. Whether it's true or not I don't know, but it set off an alarm in my head.
@Shadoweh: Dan didn't really explain all of his reads, though. For example, he doesn't explain why he thought I was town despite the big wagon piling on me. If I was such a big deal, why did he more or less ignore it before? I wasn't the only one who noticed that. I forget who did, but I know I wasn't the only one.

[Shadoweh]

I think if he'd gone into detail explaining why you're town rather then why the scummy people were scum it would have been more of a waste of time. Keep in mind this is immediately after lynching Serela for spending his time defending Vhaltz to death.

Also, I note there isn't a 'it takes X to lynch' either. There's some shenanigans afoot.

[Validon98]

Hmm... there could be a hate spreader. The problem is is that it could be town or scum, so it doesn't necessarily imply Dan as either one. That or it's a repeat of what you did in Rewrite, as in it could be voluntary. I would suspect you of being involved, but you're also pointing it out, which you couldn't do in Rewrite, so I don't think it's you for once.
Of course, I'm not going to try to go too in depth into it. The last time I went into depth with it things went bad (although I remember from the Mod QT and everything that Dormio already caught it before I pointed it out so it's not my fault yet I of course made all of the mods laugh at my "I'M SO SORRY" reaction).
ENOUGH OF THAT THOUGH.

And on Dan, I guess that's true. Still, his handwaving of BT's argument is fishy. I still don't trust him.

[PX]

I Give Up On Pretending to Have Died Votecount
Raitaki:            ActionDan (1)
ActionDan:      BT, Validon98, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:     Dormio (1)
Not voting:     Everybody else

ActionDan is at K-3
With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to nightkill.
You have 68 Hours left in the day

[Validon98]

...Okay, never mind then.

[Raitaki]

Firstly, an explanation of my D1 Shadoweh vote. Back then she looked scummy cuz despite the amount of words she posted, it was mostly stuff like commenting on people's play (not alignment) and why X is not scummy, and the actual parts about why/who are scummy were tiny. Though that was still kind of early in the game so I'll look at her again.

This post doesn't particularly look good to me. "Probably mislynch victims" strongly implies that Shadoweh wasn't sure Raikaria and BBM were really in the informed minority; this is further reflected in her explanation paragraphs, which imo doesn't really accuse anyone of being scummy, and also implies forgiveness if content improves, which again is pretty much calling their plays bad, not scummy, while still leaving open the possibility of pressing onto them if desired. It looks like neither scumreads nor scumhunting, but a load of "you should stop this or I'LL PUSH YOU". Meanwhile the crux of her Validon push was "this is not like his normal meta". While I can't say that is an inherently scummy argument, it's still an easy and safe claim for scum to make w/o people taking much of a problem against it cuz meta is subjective. She also didn't have any definitive opinion about the quality/scumminess of Validon's actual content, rather just focused on comparing it to his past games.

But then uhhhh the near-deadline part. That's quite some soft defending of Serela. I don't think any scum would defend sinking Serela D1 when they're the counterwagon, but then again busing Serela is expected so nwjhef  jeewf WIFOMs. Dunno what this says about Shadoweh's alignment. Aaand as of D2 I haven't seen Shadoweh done anything to scumhunt, unless you count throwing around townreads. Would lynch.

ActionDan: I can see why he's having a wagon on him. But on the other hand, voting him is easy as hell and he's not even TRYING to be helpful or town, and Dan usually posts little as both alignments until later anyway, so I dunno about him yet. I guess he's on the level of the average lurker in my book, which isn't very high up the lynch-o-meter.

to be continued

[Affinity]

I realize I have been a bit narrow-minded yesterday; everything I've said has Validon as a pivot.  Despite Validon's one-sided D1 (he only spoke original stuff on BBM, addressing Serela only at the last moment), I still think he's town. His responses regarding my qns on the BBM case make me feel that he is earnest. 

I was tired two days ago and thought Serela town, so I remembered Shadoweh's day-long push and sudden drop (did not mention this) on Validon (which I did not like) and called it a day.  But now I don't really think Shadoweh is a right lynch precisely because of her dropping Validon, which seemed rather graceful.  If scum!Shadoweh really wanted to defend Serela I would imagine that she would push her Validon case more rather than suspend judgement and ask clarifying questions, so yeah.

##Kill: Serious Bananas

Don't like SB the most, and despite his amount of content, I don't think it is all that great or illuminating.  He spent D1 voting Vhaltz and Validon, and he fleshes his suspicions out really well according to his own lines, nitpicking their posts constantly.  But Vhaltz gave mad theories and Validon had many null reads, and I think that they are rather easily attackable, especially for scum looking to lay low but not too low (if Vhaltz and Validon are town, which I think they are). 

I remember he thought BBM as town, but he did not give much on Shadoweh and Serela, the people relevant to yesterday's end-state.  The fact that he throws away his Validon and Vhaltz completely while going for something rude ActionDan said also makes me suspect him a lot.  So... yeah.

[Affinity]

Re: Affinity, how do people's townreads hold in light of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15168.msg999170.html#msg999170) about Serela?

Can you rephrase this question?

===

Will talk more on BT a bit more later.  On ActionDan, I don't find him interesting at all; he's merely typical this game.

[Affinity]

@Dormio, Raitiki:

Do you seriously think there were double scum wagons on D1 (again?).  If so who do you think were bussing?

Also, Raitiki, how do you find Shadoweh's pushing of Validon different from BT's?

[Raitaki]

Affinity: Barely posted anything at all, so not much to look at. Though I wonder what happened to his issues with BT's vote on Validon. Also the "Expecting too much maybe?" in his post voting BT makes it sound like he wasn't too sure about it and was just grabbing something slightly out of place to vote, but by #141 it suddenly escalated into an accusation of BT conveniently molding reasons to fit the specific situation he was voting Validon for, but then by #172 he switched to Shadoweh without any sign of remembering BT existed at all. Affinity, what was going on here?

-cut- @Affinity: Double scum wagons aren't really something scum can control, what's wrong with one happening again? Also, to answer your question, a good chunk of Shadoweh's push on Validon hinged on how different his behaviour is from last game, but gave little thought to Validon's actual content itself. Meanwhile from what I've seen BT voted Validon D1 solely over the fact his content suggested he wasn't paying attention. That's kind of on opposite sides of a spectrum. Where did this question come from again?
Blarp stop sidetracking me and making me reread again D:

[Raitaki]

Also since I haven't seen any real issues with other people yet I'll ##Kill: Shadoweh for the time being

[Shadoweh]

Affinimu: Well, I'm not asking what your opinion on yourself is, but it was an odd defense of Serela. I was asking other people if they still thought you were town from it. You did go out of your way to explain your thoughts on it though. (I imagine you would have less trouble bussing Serela then any of us!)

Raitaki: :V It is almost like Validon's posts had no content, and once his posts improved with the content I was looking for I stopped wanting to vote him. As for wagons not being something scum can control, that's not really true. You're saying that both me and Serela got bored of trying to push against other people at the same time, ensuring that scum had no control of who was getting lynched, while Serela voteparked on me the entire time.

And I'm not sure of anyone who's in the informed minority, because I'm not a part of them and I'm not psychic. It would be a short game otherwise.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Meep(o).

##Unkill Shadoweh

Don't like Raitaki one bit.
D1 doesn't have much content, I suppose that's excusable given ~reasons~ but let's look at the content that is there.
I don't like the defending of Vhaltz here.
Also two biggest scumreads at that point are Shadoweh and Raikaria and one of his points against Shadoweh is that she is only attacking Validon and Raikaria. Of course this has probably been mentioned before but whatever.
Raitaki's D2 is amusing to me. This post in particular is hilarious for reasons undisclosed.
Tempted to vote.

Dislike Dan, but there's nothing really to talk about.
Would probably vote if there weren't more tasty options available.

Reading through Bananas doesn't interest me at all.

##Kill Raitaki

I'll probably read more people later but I'm feeling lazy and ~steam summer sale~

[Shadoweh]

So how about you tell us what you think of people who aren't Dan and Shadoweh, because right now I'm your only suspect and since I feel confidently over the Day 1 getting lynched speedbump you're probably not going to get that wagon suceeded anytime soon.

Cut: Dormio let's go get married in the scum QT again <^_^> If we kill all the other scum it's like being a hydra right?

[ActionDan]

hmm.

I'll have to read Raitaki's further posts sometime tomorrow. 

I think that the duel shadoweh Serela wagons is definitely good enough to make Shadoweh not a good lynch, and probably town.  It's just how these things go.  Also Vhaltz, Conq, Shadoweh, Validon are still town.

I sort of agree with Affinity that SB had nitpicky posts, but they seemed homogenous, in that he nitpicked everybody so.. I'll have to look at that again.  And maybe look at Dormio.

oh cuts.  oh, is hilarity ensuing? that seems like fun

cuts cuts

[ActionDan]

btw Raitaki, "possibly mislynches victims" is a joke....  Like if we lynch town, it's a mislynch... harhar get it? 

[Validon98]

We'd all love to see the marriage, Shadoweh. ^^;

In seriousness, looking at Dan's recent posts he's improving, although him handwaving BT's think urks me a little bit. Granted, SB urks me too and I haven't voted him. Hmm... not sure what to think on them personally. They're probably the scummiest but there's still Affinity and Raitaki and I'm not sure what to think of them. Also a few people haven't posted yet so I want to wait for their opinions on current matters.

[Vhaltz]

Managed to read through just before having to leave

Dormio what do you think of people aside from your vote (Raitaki) and those who make you terribly apathetic (SB/Dan)?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Dan is making me apathetic? I think you're misunderstanding.
It's just that Dan has virtually nothing to his name that makes him noteworthy.
I do want him lynched, but would rather see Raitaki go.

As for everyone else, I don't really care about them right now. I don't see why I should care.

[BT]

##Unkill ActionDan

I'll drop it for now. Mind you, he did vote BBM(town) at a critical point, and despite discouraging a Shadoweh vote and saying he could lynch Serela, he never did so until Conq did. But all this still probably went before Serela had time to raise the white flag. Whatever.

Affinity brought up what would have been my main gripe with SB, but aside from that I'm fairly content with his posts when I'm reading them right now. It's weird.

You know what? Votecounts.

First Votecount
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Raitaki:    BT (1)
Serela:    Shadoweh (1)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo (2)

First DEATHCOUNT
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh (2)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Incoming Count
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, ActionDan (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh, BBM, Dormio (4)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Dust in the Wind
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio (3)
BBM:     Conqueror, Validon, ActionDan (3)
BT:    Affinity (1)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Dust Kick Slide
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
BBM:     Validon, ActionDan (2)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Speeding Gumball
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98 (5)

Pudding for Dinner
Validon98:    Shadoweh, Serious Bananas (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT (6)

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

Lovely Replace All, the rest of the post is nbd. I'll continue this sometime later.

[Shadoweh]

##Unkill ActionDan

I'll drop it for now. Mind you, he did vote BBM(town) at a critical point, and despite discouraging a Shadoweh vote and saying he could lynch Serela, he never did so until Conq did. But all this still probably went before Serela had time to raise the white flag. Whatever.

Affinity brought up what would have been my main gripe with SB, but aside from that I'm fairly content with his posts when I'm reading them right now. It's weird.

You know what? Votecounts.

First Votecount
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Raitaki:    BT (1)
Serela:    Shadoweh (1)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo (2)

First DEATHCOUNT
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Dormio, BBM, ActionDan (4)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh (2)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Incoming Count
Validon98:    Raitaki (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, ActionDan (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BT, Shadoweh, BBM, Dormio (4)
BBM:    Validon98, Vhaltzo, Raikaria (3)

Cats howling in the night.
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki (2)
Vhaltzo:    Serious Bananas (1)
Raikaria:    BBM, Dormio (2)
BBM:    Raikaria, Vhaltzo (2)

Dust in the Wind
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio (3)
BBM:     Conqueror, Validon, ActionDan (3)
BT:    Affinity (1)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Dust Kick Slide
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
BBM:     Validon, ActionDan (2)
Serlea:    BBM Vhaltzo (2)

Speeding Gumball
Validon98:    Shadoweh, BT, Serious Bananas (3)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98 (5)

Pudding for Dinner
Validon98:    Shadoweh, Serious Bananas (2)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT (6)

NightKill
Validon98:    Shadoweh (1)
Shadoweh:    Serela, Raitaki, Dormio, Affinity (4)
Serela:    BBM, Vhaltzo, Conqueror, ActionDan, Validon98, BT, Serious Bananas (7)

Lovely Replace All, the rest of the post is nbd. I'll continue this sometime later.

quoting this because blue on yellow makes my eyes burn otherwise

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

My eyes burn regardless. Discrimination against the colorblind!

[BT]

I forgot what colors you had trouble with. Sorry.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

It's fine, I just look at the BBcoding anyway.

So are you going to do anything with the votecounts or are they just there?

Also I guess I'll try to get another post out before I go to sleep or something.

[BT]

Maybe later. I just think there's merit in looking at the wagons before Serelarising. If I can't find anything but others can, that's fine too (and is the point of posting VCs like that).

[Shadoweh]

He has troubles with red and green. That's why his posts are always so confusing, he can never tell what alignment he is! I also like how you caught all the mod spelling errors.
I think I would find it odd if Dan and Validon scum had fled BBM in order to crush Serela full force. Validon even had a good reason to jump on me after I was attacking him all day. Vhaltz deciding he suddenly hated Serela would just be plain uncalled for. With my own assurances about BT, that leaves either Bananas being available in case we wanted to lynch myself, Conq being Serela's buddy, or the idea that nearly the entire town besides me decided Serela needed to die with no bussing, yet the scum being two out of three of the biggest bussers in history. Raitaki wasn't here, so his motive for not bussing would be literally missing the wagon.

What I'm thinking probably needs more proof to be uttered. My battery is kind of running out though so you'll have to wait till tomorrow for it.

[Conqueror]

I can think of several reasons for why BBM might have been killed over me or Vhaltz but the most immediately relevant is that Vhaltz and me were both calling hard for Shadoweh's head at the end of yesterday. Unfortunately for my Pictures of Birds Revenge Scenario, this only works with Shadoweh town, which I'm coming around to given the way Shadoweh's opened today.

But Shadoweh, why wouldn't you offer to hammer Serela yesterday when he was your counterwagon? Also, what were your thought on BBM etc at the time you made that post giving up on the Validon wagon? (Also, preemptively looking for bussers on a scum wagon which might not be there is as dumb a mafia-finding tactic as it always has been and I will fight you every time you use that strategy. Bring it, sister.)

Anyway, I don't think I can see any team besides Raitaki and SB at this point.

##Kill Raitaki first because then it'll get you people to stop wanting to kill Dan and Dormio. I'll make more detailed posts later.

[Shadoweh]

Mmm. I logged on to check in case I was needed for hammering. There was someone around to hammer but not enough votes to do anything else so I was kind of in a funk. I made the comment that handing the hammer to the person's counterwagon is stupid already. Not me over me is the most unhelpful reason to vote. That said I don't think I ever implied I wouldn't hammer Serela if no one else was around, it's the kind of thing people should assume without being said.

My thoughts on BBM were conflicted. It's not worth talking about much right now since he's dead. Let's just say Day 1 was unclear for me and I'm rather glad it's over because I don't operate well without data to chew on. (You tell me not to look at bussers but even you admit there probably is one :V It's a short list dood)

I was about to say I was town that game but I'm thinking of Adorable >.> I was a p cool owl that game bus all buddies and didn't afraid of anything.

[Conqueror]

(You tell me not to look at bussers but even you admit there probably is one :V It's a short list dood)

(If you had hammered, then with my working scumteam theory there would have been no bussers on the wagon. :V)

I JUST dislike pigeonholding assumptions in general. I have FAITH in that the POWER OF SCUMHUNTING will reveal all.