TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth

[AnonymousPondScum]

Aaaaand NEW THREAD TIME! Old thread was here.

In retrospect I think I was too harsh on 13.5, even if there's some things I find strange about it and the circumstances of its release.

On the subject of 13.5's endings,

Spoiler:

holy crap Reimu actually got some donations.

<Tengukami> It helps to update the new thread with at least some basic information about the game ...

In case you've just awoken from a coma, Hopeless Masquerade is a fighting game, with some pretty interesting mechanics at play. Here we come to the conclusion of the Religious Conflict arc that I'm sure we've found fun and interesting.

The playing cast has a couple surprises. The full roster is:

Reimu Hakurei
Marisa Kirisame
Ichirin Kumoi
Byakuren Hijiri
Mononobe no Futo
Toyosatomimi no Miko
Nitori Kawashiro
Koishi Komeiji
Mamizou Futatsuiwa
And the mysterious new girl

Spoiler:

who was behind the religious conflict THE WHOLE TIME

, Hata no Kokoro.

As it is, there is no English patch yet available, due to  the particular vertical arrangement of the characters, but some of our guys are working on a solution.

[Kingault]

Aaaaand NEW THREAD TIME! Old thread was here.

In retrospect I think I was too harsh on 13.5, even if there's some things I find strange about it and the circumstances of its release.

On the subject of 13.5's endings,

Spoiler:

holy crap Reimu actually got some donations.

I dislike how

Spoiler:

both Miko and Byakuren are stuck with the belief that their method fixed everything. As if I didn't like them already due to their beliefs and what they say...

[AnonymousPondScum]

I dislike how

Spoiler:

both Miko and Byakuren are stuck with the belief that their method fixed everything. As if I didn't like them already due to their beliefs and what they say...

Spoiler:

And Nitori gets away with profiteering off of the villagers, too.

[Clarste]

I dislike how

Spoiler:

both Miko and Byakuren are stuck with the belief that their method fixed everything. As if I didn't like them already due to their beliefs and what they say...

Really? I thought that part was hilarious.

[Sagus]

I dislike how

Spoiler:

both Miko and Byakuren are stuck with the belief that their method fixed everything. As if I didn't like them already due to their beliefs and what they say...

That's entirely in-character for them, though.

[Starxsword]

@Koishi's ending: Eh? I disagree with the interpretation that it was a depressing ending. I think it is a hopeful ending. Kokoro's story route pretty much expands on more or less the same thing.

That's entirely in-character for them, though.

My sentiments are the same. I think that ending is good. It isn't like it isn't true, but it isn't just them that fixed it.

[Sagus]

My sentiments are the same. I think that ending is good. It isn't like it isn't true, but it isn't just them that fixed it.

Yeah, exactly. Those two are just too full of themselves to admit it.

Although maybe it's more like, Miko is full of herself, and Byakuren just really really really wants to believe that her methods can help youkai.

Poor deluded woman ; . ;

[AnonymousPondScum]

Byakuren shows a surprising lack of knowledge of youkai psych.

She thinks Koishi is close to Nirvana when really she's practically very, very far away from it---Nirvana is supposed to be a sort of stillness and Koishi...Well, isn't still.

I had an interesting conversation with Hinacle about the subject earlier which explains it much better than I could. Hopefully he reads this.

[Hinacle]

I had an interesting conversation with Hinacle about the subject earlier which explains it much better than I could. Hopefully he reads this.

Isn't Buddhism about reaching enlightenment through life to finally being to die peacefully and reach Nirvana? Humans most likely have a tough time reaching this, but what about Youkai? Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Youkai immortal (or at least have a very long lifespan)?
Why would a Youkai want to discard all of those (possible thousand) years of life just to reach enlightenment? Aside from reaching Nirvana, they don't get much out of the deal. Most Youkai don't cooperate by nature (aside from Tengu and Oni), so keeping them in a temple might be a bad idea. If anything the Youkai are at her temple just for free food and living space. :V

[Kingault]

Yeah, exactly. Those two are just too full of themselves to admit it.

Although maybe it's more like, Miko is full of herself, and Byakuren just really really really wants to believe that her methods can help youkai.

Poor deluded woman ; . ;

Yeah, it's in-character. Doesn't mean I can't dislike them for it, though.
Eh, I still consider Nitori's massive greed in this game worse.
She could take all the assballs she wanted.

Isn't Buddhism about reaching enlightenment through life to finally being to die peacefully and reach Nirvana? Humans most likely have a tough time reaching this, but what about Youkai? Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Youkai immortal (or at least have a very long lifespan)?
Why would a Youkai want to discard all of those (possible thousand) years of life just to reach enlightenment? Aside from reaching Nirvana, they don't get much out of the deal. Most Youkai don't cooperate by nature (aside from Tengu and Oni), so keeping them in a temple might be a bad idea. If anything the Youkai are at her temple just for free food and living space. :V

Also, some of them just want powers like Byakuren's.
The poor, naive fool.

[Sagus]

Yeah, it's in-character. Doesn't mean I can't dislike them for it, though.

Sorry, thought you meant that you disliked the endings in the "doesn't make sense" kind of way.

Isn't Buddhism about reaching enlightenment through life to finally being to die peacefully and reach Nirvana? Humans most likely have a tough time reaching this, but what about Youkai? Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Youkai immortal (or at least have a very long lifespan)?
Why would a Youkai want to discard all of those (possible thousand) years of life just to reach enlightenment? Aside from reaching Nirvana, they don't get much out of the deal. Most Youkai don't cooperate by nature (aside from Tengu and Oni), so keeping them in a temple might be a bad idea. If anything the Youkai are at her temple just for free food and living space. :V

Some youkai do seem like they might somewhat enjoy her teachings, though. Ichirin seemed pretty devout (although we know, through SoPM, that she likes to drink sake and party behind Byakuren's back). And Shou is a good Bishamonten avatar... although, since he's not a buddhist god (since there is no such thing), it doesn't necessarily mean she is a good buddhist.

[iK]

From the sounds of it, Miko's bravado is exactly how I thought about her already and every bit more of why I love her so much.

My prince~

[monhan]

Ah! I forgot to hide the spoiler!

Spoiler:

At least Byakuren and Miko's solution eventually helps lead to what can actually solve the problem, having Kokoro not rely on the masks. The new mask from Miko helped make Kokoro realize that she can't have others make a mask for her(or made a mask from them) and Byakuren let her stay in the temple and taught her Buddhism to help her control her own emotions. They might not solve it completely but at least Byakuren got the right idea.

Besides, it would be boring if they fixed the problem on the spot. What use are the other characters?
Some might not do much, but characters like Koishi or Mamizou, even Ichirin helped Kokoro make her decision. It can be said that the whole story of HM is everyone(save a few) encouraging Kokoro to finally step up on stage and attain her own emotion. I think that's a good way to do the story and is actually very heartwarming.

Here, have some Kokoro's smile, it's damn worth it.
http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1433688?tags=hata_no_kokoro+smile

[Kingault]

Sorry, thought you meant that you disliked the endings in the "doesn't make sense" kind of way.
Some youkai do seem like they might somewhat enjoy her teachings, though. Ichirin seemed pretty devout (although we know, through SoPM, that she likes to drink sake and party behind Byakuren's back). And Shou is a good Bishamonten avatar... although, since he's not a buddhist god (since there is no such thing), it doesn't necessarily mean she is a good buddhist.

Shou does drink as well.
Heheheheh.

[Hinacle]

Shou does drink as well.
Heheheheh.

I love how none of her close followers acted as Buddhist-y as Byakuren had previously thought.

[Sagus]

Shou does drink as well.
Heheheheh.

...she's a god! She does whatever she wants! :V

[AnonymousPondScum]

...she's a god! She does whatever she wants! :V

She is an *avatar*. That basically makes her a car that a god drives. :V

I love how none of her close followers acted as Buddhist-y as Byakuren had previously thought.

The real irony is that Ichirin and Futo wound up having swapped personalities from what I expected---with Futo in "Awww, crap, gotta pick up after my master again" mode and Ichirin in "CRUSH TINY TAOIST BABIES" mode.

[cuc]

ZUN, Unabara and other Tasofro members will have another HM design meeting soon. This means game balance and... Kokoro?

[Starxsword]

Let's hope its new character + Kokoro.

[cuc]

Oh, and by "soon", I meant "in a few minutes, maybe already begun".

New characters are unlikely. The only reason IaMP had Meiling, was because Tasofro wanted to make her. She was not part of ZUN's plans. Now that HM character sprites are much more costly to make than previous games (larger AND more frames), adding new characters is harder.

[Ciel]

Oh, and by "soon", I meant "in a few minutes, maybe already begun".

New characters are unlikely. The only reason IaMP had Meiling, was because Tasofro wanted to make her. She was not part of ZUN's plans. Now that HM character sprites are much more costly to make than previous games (larger AND more frames), adding new characters is harder.

I'm suspecting that they are debating on making the next installment for HM? Like how Soku came out when SWR was released? D: I'm just shooting holes around here.

Either way, I'm sure it would be great. =]

[TrueShadow]

I love how none of her close followers acted as Buddhist-y as Byakuren had previously thought.

And SoPM also said Murasa still caused water accidents...

I feel bad for Byakuren...She's a really nice person with a nice goal, except she has no idea how to realize it. And when she arrived in Gensokyo, where some humans DO make friends with Youkai, she's too focused on her Buddhism that she refuses the chance to. (Reimu's parties). Not to mention she's somehow oblivious to her followers' behavior. At least as far as Ichirin, Murasa, and Shou are concerned, she's their Lord and Savior.

I'm suspecting that they are debating on making the next installment for HM? Like how Soku came out when SWR was released? D: I'm just shooting holes around here.

Either way, I'm sure it would be great. =]

Hopefully.  :3
But unless they take out background characters or implement remove-character-from-background-when-picked feature, then our only candidates are Watatsuki sisters (super unlikely), Meiling and Flandre (maybeee, but a bit unlikely IMO), and Akyuu (non-fighter)...or maybe they will introduce new characters or use DDC cast?

[cuc]

I wouldn't mind them to animate Satori's animals first, so they actually look like living animals.

[Shizzo]

Dunno if anybody noticed this before, or I could be seeing things since it's so fast...

But does Mamizou really have -six fingers- on her hand during her spellcard-declaration cut-in?

[Kilgamayan]

Yes.

[Kingault]

Hopeless Masquerade was ready.


Wait, isn't one of the major things in Buddhism ahimsa, or nonviolence?
Then we have Ichirin... and Murasa... and probably most of the youkai that follow Byakuren... Probably Kyouko as well, judging from her dialogue with Reimu...
Good fight, Byakuren.

[Clarste]

Hopefully.  :3
But unless they take out background characters or implement remove-character-from-background-when-picked feature, then our only candidates are Watatsuki sisters (super unlikely), Meiling and Flandre (maybeee, but a bit unlikely IMO), and Akyuu (non-fighter)...or maybe they will introduce new characters or use DDC cast?

Kasen?

[Captain Vulcan]

Kasen?

My fingers are crossed...

[Starxsword]

Now that HM character sprites are much more costly to make than previous games (larger AND more frames), adding new characters is harder.

Is it more costly relatively comparing? Back then, the computers aren't as good as now. There should be better rendering software and computers to help out on the game making process. I am not sure how much it offsets it, since Hopeless Masquerade is much more graphically intensive than Immaterial and Missing Power.

[Clarste]

Is it more costly relatively comparing? Back then, the computers aren't as good as now. There should be better rendering software and computers to help out on the game making process. I am not sure how much it offsets it, since Hopeless Masquerade is much more graphically intensive than Immaterial and Missing Power.

How does rendering software help them draw sprites?