Disgaea Mafia -Game Over-

[Serela]

already fuckin' late to work and my uniform isn't even on why am I posting in mafia

IHNN you say you did that to try to understand me more and then you start talking about other things without commenting on whether it actually affected your opinion of me or not and it's like you aren't actually voting me

except you are

I mean did you forget or something

I would probably word this better if I didn't have to leave FIVE MINUTES AGO but talk to me when I'm back
##Unvote ##Vote IHNN
still okay with Affinity wagon too
HW talking about drrawr being lurkscum when it's barely over a day into the game seems weird (It partially looks worse just because rawr makes a nice post immediately after)
gotta go like holy shit why did I even make this post

[Serela]

I would probably word this better if I didn't have to leave FIVE MINUTES AGO but talk to me when I'm back

tl;dr I'll explain this better when I'm home because I do not have time

[Dorian White]

OK, I'm here, I'm alive and I have no idea why I'm doing this, so lets see what we have here ?

First thing first: Gambits are witchcraft! Burn heretic! Bard overreacted, I don't see HW's ?acting? as scummy as Bard thought it was and the quickness the wagon build up make me doubt that I find scum here. Ergo in dubio pro reo  ##Unvote

Now to the miler, I'm personally not so sure that he wouldn?t do it as scum, I even think that I've seen it happen before but that doesn't matter, the claim in itself is null just the same.
But there are other things.


Lets start with his HW case:
Huh Whats ?gambit was really retarded?
NNR ?don't like the amount of manipulation and tomfoolery he's been posting?
NNR ?don't like his tunneling PX for doing nothing even after RVS?

I can agree with the first point but that's unfortunately doesn't implicate scum intent and the accusation of tunneling was plain silly at this point. That only leaves the second point but ? manipulations? are only scummy if you see scum intent behind it in the first place, what I will assume here to leave the last bit of substance it had.

And now let me try to summarize his current BT case:
BT's case is based on meta
BT's case is on a Town read (Conq)

I can't help but to get here the impression that he dropped a case based on scum intent in favor of a case based on bad play and the fact that I can't really tell if NNRs next posts are meant to attack BT or to defend himself doesn't help that impression either.
And here comes another point of your case that seems to be the actual main issue you have with BT, that he suspects you based on your claim which is a misrepresentation. Not that his proposal of a policy lynch and his scum read that seems to be based on interaction are that much better but it's clearly two different things and not one as you made it out to be.

My preliminary conclusion:
I think NNRs first vote was already questionable but his current vote just a noisy and half artificial counterattack. ##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Geez, that took me forever and there is even a new page that wasn't there as I started to write this, just wonderful.^^;;
I'll address everything else after a lunch break and some catching up.

[NekoNekoRex]

To be more specific, Dormio is wondering about what NekoNekoRex thinks of Hero999 since Hero999 was actually the one to note NekoNekoRex's vote as OMGUS and BT just adopted Hero999's though

I'm aware Hero brought up the claim (as a question, presumably for BT), but BT painted it far  worse then Hero, adding that not only is it OMGUS, but that the vote is just a Conq sheep.

I have other stuff coming but I have to read two pages first and this caught my attention.

[Schezo]

Im glad the character I'm grinding can 1 shot the map

Dorian (0):
BT (4): Conq, NekoNekoRex, Affinity, Drrawr
Shadoweh (1): PX
Dormio (0):
PX (1): Shadoweh
Ihavenoname (1): Serela
Affinity (0):
Drrawr (0):
Conq (1): BT
NekoNekoRex (2): Dormio, Dorian
HuhWhat (0):
Hero999 (0):
Serela (3): Hero999, ihavenoname, Huh What

Not Voting: No one

With 13 left Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

~34 hours left

[NekoNekoRex]

First off, I think Dorian's case is rather well written, but unfortunately I think it ignores the case of BT himself. Dorian, you don't like my case on BT, but what do you think about BT himself?

I think there is scum intent in BT's accusations. As Conq pointed out, he would have intent to vote me were it not for my claim, despite Conq having no vote support at all.  I might even think you're blowing off my case as defense of myself and Conq, rather then an attack on poor scumhunting, which is the case.
Regardless, I do think bad play is paramount to scum intent, since scum cases are much likelier to be flimsy. It's part of my policy to "Lynch All Losers", and it's done pretty well for me in the past.

Now for the main course.

Ye olde splitting of posts.
Enough of this crap. I used the aid of meta where you (not "you" specifically) usually use meta on this site to get 90% of your reads. Calling my scumhunting bad for this is dumb and you know it. I... what?
Yes, HW was basing the vote off PX's meta so it doesn't ignore everyone else. But that was RVS
You're making it sound like a chore. I wasn't expecting some sort of specific reaction but I DID expect SOME reaction. Conq ignoring it and then saying "yeah, it turned sour" only after questioned about it is scummy. Conq wasn't even part of the Gambit. The Gambit was for Bard. A lack of reaction doesn't say anything.
It's easier to catch scum when they're half-asleep. That's a pretty terrible way to go about finding scum. The post was made when I hadn't even read the whole game yet, commenting about RVS.
Why So far I've noticed a lot of bias because of my claim.
No you didn't.

Could use some reasoning for that BT vote,

What is the point of this part? "Conq looks town in those posts for :reasons: I won't be bothered to list"
Yep, you "said it", but the tone is all forgiving. [col"or=green]"Whoops you were right but it's still bad because imo the tone"[/color]
... Even if I'm wrong in your eyes, how is that a scummy thought process at all? Misrep makes me look worse then I actually am.
Why would I need an "excuse" not to go for an NNR lynch? Why do you have an excuse? You aren't voting me for my claim, and there's no support for a Conq lynch. You say that you don't want to vote me on lack of support, but the only support you yourself can muster is talking shit about me while voting Conq. This is why I think you're scum.

[NekoNekoRex]

To be clear the only meta I've ever been aware I've used is that "Serela waffles a lot, especially in LYLO" and the experience I have playing Mafia with Huhwhat for the last 2 or so years, which I sometimes use to make gut reads on him.

On that note I still don't really like Huhwhat because he's still pretty bent on Bard, but he's at least moved on to Serela which is okay I guess (although I don't get the case on Serela that much). I await his thoughts on Bard's replacement now that he's posted.

[NekoNekoRex]

(not "you" specifically)

Somehow missed this part of that sentence, so I guess it wasn't directed at me after all. Still don't know how that helps his case considering he and Conq are still arguing over meta.

[Schezo]

I think the 11th rule is just up there for its health too.

[Dorian White]

First off, I think Dorian's case is rather well written, but unfortunately I think it ignores the case of BT himself. Dorian, you don't like my case on BT, but what do you think about BT himself?

I think there is scum intent in BT's accusations. As Conq pointed out, he would have intent to vote me were it not for my claim, despite Conq having no vote support at all.  I might even think you're blowing off my case as defense of myself and Conq, rather then an attack on poor scumhunting, which is the case.
Regardless, I do think bad play is paramount to scum intent, since scum cases are much likelier to be flimsy. It's part of my policy to "Lynch All Losers", and it's done pretty well for me in the past.

I have to admit that put the the whole Conq vs BT conflict aside as a town vs town thing, sue me, I wasn't even playing at that point. I guess a reread is in order to clarify things.

However I still think that I understand BTs reasoning so far, maybe aside from his most recent post but that's likely because it's a bloody mess of a quote bacon. I don't agree with most of his points but I see him rather as misguided town that run head first in to the wrong idea than scum, I seen it before and I also recall that I had a similar issue with his ?sudden unvote? as BT had.
I hope that answers your question.

Also your claim would be hardly a obstacle for scum-BT to vote you, to be honest I would expect  scum-BT to switch to you instead of continue his tilting at windmills.


Wait, what?

BT (4): Conq, NekoNekoRex, Affinity, BT

Is this correct?
It is now

[I have no name]

IHNN you say you did that to try to understand me more and then you start talking about other things without commenting on whether it actually affected your opinion of me or not

Those message were in in the cuts and I skimmed it because i was so tired because it was 3 in the morning.  However, allow me to quote some stuff from my post.

taking one last look at the posts surrounding the HW wagon, I can say I finally understand it.

It's an RVS wagon, with very little to understand.

Where did I say I was trying to understand you, specifically, more Serela?

Serela's vote on the HW wagon is completely null since it was literally the first post of the game.  More recent stuff doesn't make me want to move my vote.

Ok, so I didn't go as in-depth as I could. Post #135 is a huge wall of text...that amounts to would not vote Conq/BT, Dormio is hypocritical EXCEPT NOT, a 'lrn2read' aimed at me, I can't read RVS end stuff, EVERYONE IS NULL except Affinity, who is only being silly but not scummy.  Net content: fluff/bad PoE scumread.  Everything else you did was defend that scumread beyond that until...

I would probably word this better if I didn't have to leave FIVE MINUTES AGO but talk to me when I'm back
##Unvote ##Vote IHNN

To me, this reads as an OMGUS.  Not moving my vote.

[NekoNekoRex]

I think the 11th rule is just up there for its health too.

Doesn't that rule usually just apply to usernames? It's not like I'd be able to help if it I wanted to get birthday-powered or something.

[NekoNekoRex]

I have to admit that put the the whole Conq vs BT conflict aside as a town vs town thing, sue me, I wasn't even playing at that point. I guess a reread is in order to clarify things.

However I still think that I understand BTs reasoning so far, maybe aside from his most recent post but that's likely because it's a bloody mess of a quote bacon. I don't agree with most of his points but I see him rather as misguided town that run head first in to the wrong idea than scum, I seen it before and I also recall that I had a similar issue with his ?sudden unvote? as BT had.
I hope that answers your question.

Also your claim would be hardly a obstacle for scum-BT to vote you, to be honest I would expect  scum-BT to switch to you instead of continue his tilting at windmills.

I would agree with this if it weren't all speculation. Frankly it doesn't look misguided because of the earlier stated scum intent.  The thing about scum voting regardless of claim works as the reverse for townies. Nobody is going to push a lynch with no support for very long, so why is BT sticking to his guns on Conq?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I don't want to lynch NNR. We already know what alignment his flip will be, so it provides us with zero wagon analysis that isn't WIFOM. I'm also reading him as town. If he dies, it should be by vig.

People who are terrible:
Hero999: you need to do something
Shadoweh: you need to do something
PX: you need to do something
IHNN: Not as bad as the others but you don't seem to be putting much effort into analyzing stuff while you're around. What about BT and Conq?
Serela: "still okay with the Affinity wagon" you never had a reason to be okay with the Affinity wagon, also rawr posting immediately after my callout making me look worse makes no damn sense when I don't have foresight. IHNN vote isn't horrible but doesn't really impress me, you still had no reads until there was something easy to jump on.

Hero doesn't feel like scum and I at least agree with IHNN's vote. Shadoweh is starting to read scummy to me because she's still holding onto her case from ED1 that was absolutely awful - PX has no control over how people react to him, and for him to draw no attention means that both townies and scum were ignoring him. You might as well call me confirmed town for being put at L-1 that early in the day, or you obvscum because there hasn't been a D1 Shadoweh powerwagon yet.

BT / Conq is really reminding me of that one time I thought I had a case on Conq but is was actually terrible and he thought I was scum BSing. BT looks worse by a small margin (too much conviction on a weak case is scummier than whatever Conq did but it's still not nearly as bad as Conq makes it out to be imo) but I don't really think either is scum. Conq obviously isn't getting lynched today though, so seriously BT, give it up man.

Dorian's post is neutral imo. Could use opinions on non-me and non-NNR and I'm not really big on lynching NNR like I said.

[Serela]

I am going BACK TO BED but first I'm going to respond to IHNN (also I have work tomorrow but I will be back in the morning and like 3 hours before deadline so it's fine, assuming I figured deadline being around 11pm~midnight east coast time to be right)

Where did I say I was trying to understand you, specifically, more Serela?

I was trying to get a better understanding and I asked if it was what I initially thought.

You then later stated this was definitely a response to me.

Your next response to me takes a quote from your HW wagon analysis and implies it was supposed to be about why you were voting me?  Okay well lesse.

who is only being silly but not scummy

I say silly a lot in games, I generally mean silly=weird=questionable. If something in your case is "silly" then that pretty clearly implies saying something is wrong with it, which would be a not-good thing? D: (This isn't a complaint at you as much as just me talking in ways I think are clear but then most people don't get it, which basically is a daily thing for me)

PoE scumread

Uh no not really, not thinking other people are scummy looking yet =/= just picking Affinity for not being them
But that being said, 24 hours into the game I'm not really expecting to have much of a case

I still think Affinity's votes have all been a little weird in some way. But, I digress.

EVERYONE IS NULL except Affinity,

This is also halfway a response to Conq, in that the reason I went into :words: is I figured some people would be pretty >:T about me thinking the majority of people are totally null (Despite th majority of people having 1~2 posts that aren't insignificant)

To me, this reads as an OMGUS.  Not moving my vote.

At this point, your reasons for voting me aren't bad. But when I called you out on it, whether your case even still existed or not wasn't clear. That's A Bad Thing(tm), and playing catch up later doesn't really make it better IMO. Especially how you seem to practically retcon your previous post by forgetting part of it, implying part of it was something it clearly wasn't originally, and then not pay attention to the actual reason I voted it. (Granted, I was REALLY UNCLEAR at explaining it before because time.)

Basically, the reason I voted you is because, when I responded to your vote/question to me, you went "Oh, I was just trying to understand you better" and then dropped the subject, which is really because I'm the person you're voting. If it's not clear why this isn't good, it's basically the equivalent of voting someone and making a case on them, and when they respond the person says "Oh, okay." and then keeps their vote there regardless and talks about something else.

[I have no name]

The part right after I quoted your "way2misrep" was in a direct response TO way2misrep, and only that part.  I wasn't sure why you didn't want to vote those people, I asked if it was the way I assumed it was, you responded.  That was the ONLY part I was trying to get a better idea of what it meant.

Maybe i didn't word it the best but that's what tends to happen when I have a post sitting there for more than 5 minutes, it looks all Frankenstein-y.

So, if I'm clear now, you're voting me because of a misunderstanding?

[Shadoweh]

So yeah, Shadoweh's still a thing. I still don't know why you're voting me other than other people should be voting me. That said, you still ignored this post,

I clearly didn't ignore it, I noted that your only response was to vote me and basically ignore the rest of the game happening when I wasn't here.

but I guess I shall explain what I meant by the huh what thing even though I don't even fully understand wtf I was saying myself. Simply huhwhat was reading everything as either black or white, and trying to force everyone else to do so as well, which made me want to both vote and not vote him, so I simply kept my vote on him since that would produce the most effect towards moving the game forward. So, why am I scum?

I asked you something simple though, 'what out of doing that makes huh what worth of a vote?' You're just telling me what he did again and making it seem like it's obvious which part is townie and which is scummy, either that or you're saying you had no reason and trying to play off as if that was a good reason and not worthy of a vote on its own merits.

huh what: I am doing something. Vote PX.
Someone asked about BT so will go read back and look

[Schezo]

Gameboards differ from each person who runs one but it personally annoys the piss out of me when people swap Avis midgame.

The deadline is at 8 PM CST so in about 27.5 hours

[BT]

##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex

Why do you have an excuse? You aren't voting me for my claim, and there's no support for a Conq lynch. You say that you don't want to vote me on lack of support, but the only support you yourself can muster is talking shit about me while voting Conq. This is why I think you're scum.

You say I'm misrepping you (when I'm not - you pretty much need to thank Conq for your vote) but then you pull something like this. I am not "talking shit" about you, plus I only have one vote. You think I'm scum because you've decided my scumhunting is bad for bad reasons and keep waving my "bad scumhunting" around like some kind of magic wand.

so why is BT sticking to his guns on Conq?

Because he's scum and I actually have more non-meta reasons for you to look at now. But wait, you completely disregarded that post. Despite your vote basing off of my "bad scumhunting".
And TBF I was sure your wagon wasn't going to get support so it'd be a legit waste of time. I was also hoping my last few posts will change ~*~something~*~ but whatever.

BT / Conq is really reminding me of that one time I thought I had a case on Conq but is was actually terrible and he thought I was scum BSing. BT looks worse by a small margin (too much conviction on a weak case is scummier than whatever Conq did but it's still not nearly as bad as Conq makes it out to be imo) but I don't really think either is scum. Conq obviously isn't getting lynched today though, so seriously BT, give it up man.

You didn't answer my question earlier. And really, how is the case 'terrible'?

I don't want to lynch NNR. We already know what alignment his flip will be, so it provides us with zero wagon analysis that isn't WIFOM. I'm also reading him as town. If he dies, it should be by vig.

It's NEVER going to provide us with wagon analysis and he's scum.

Serela: "still okay with the Affinity wagon" you never had a reason to be okay with the Affinity wagon, also rawr posting immediately after my callout making me look worse makes no damn sense when I don't have foresight. IHNN vote isn't horrible but doesn't really impress me, you still had no reads until there was something easy to jump on.

The Affinity vote was okay. And we're not lynching Serela today.

IHNN: Thoughts on other wagons? Why did the Serela vote read as OMGUS?

Shadoweh needs to answer my question. Posting like this does pretty much nothing.

[Shadoweh]

Oh, Conq keeps asking because BT is the highest wagon right noww, that's a good reason.

If I'm reading this right actually, the entire BT wagon is based on BT vs Conq? And Conq is basically winning because he's cuter faster stronger better?

BT / Conq is really reminding me of that one time I thought I had a case on Conq but is was actually terrible and he thought I was scum BSing. BT looks worse by a small margin (too much conviction on a weak case is scummier than whatever Conq did but it's still not nearly as bad as Conq makes it out to be imo) but I don't really think either is scum. Conq obviously isn't getting lynched today though, so seriously BT, give it up man.

This sounds like a good summation of my thoughts on it actually. It's hard for me to judge eitheer because of how blaringly I would prefer a huge toppling elsewhere, but BT sounds convinced of his points. I don't really think the Neko vote is good though, death miller notwithstanding. I think he is a worse wagon then PX and more likely to be a townie who got caught on the wrong end of an argument.

To answer BT's last questions at me, the first one answers itself in the post he quotes, the second one is a bad question. Why don't you read PX and tell me? I just told you what I think is bad about him. I can see you think he leans town for his post with the vote on me, why? -.- Cut: asking the question like that does nothing either. I would prefer you read what he's been saying and agree he's lurking scum rather then listen to me because I'm telling you he's lurking scum.

Also the wagon on Serela is retarded dumb not smart bad and everyone on it (Including Serela? I assume that's huh what's vote) should feel bad and leave his derpiness alone.

[Conqueror]

Hmm.

##Unvote
##Vote: PX

Would take IHNN over Serela right now.

Will respond to BT and other stuff in a bit.

[Shadoweh]

1. Bardiche Dorian
2. BT
3. Shadoweh
4. Dormio
5. PX
6. Ihavenoname
7. Affinity
8. Drrawr
9.  Conq
10. NekoNekoRex
11. HuhWhat
12. Hero999
13. Serela

I supose that's a good start. Although huh whattles has proven he likes to pull weird role shit as scum to confuse people, he did that as a desperation measure and I'm pretty sure he wasn't really worried about being lynched at this point. I don't think he takes stuff personally as scum either so I'm pretty sure he's town. Then again I am a horrible judge of huh what's character

Skimming argument re: meta on Conq and I'm willing to give him a pass for it if only because I've had the exact same frustration as town trying to show people how my meta clearly shows the way I act as scum. From a self-perception standpoint I would never link people to obvious proof from my pov that I'm scum.

As inventive as Neko is I really wouldn't expect him as scum to come out with a Death Miller claim. We could always lynch him for a pick-me-up (100% scum lync gais!) But the arguments that it's a waste of time are true. We literally can't learn from his lynch.

Dormio is cute. As long as he keeps posting like that I will keep him forever. Dormioooooo <3

Serela = pretty Serelaey. I saw one of Conqq's arguments were 'Serela is using too many words to say stuff' when uh, using lots of words isn't the part where he's scummy. At the least he's trying to push more out, which he's not capable of sustaining as scum anyways.

I said my stuff pretty clearly on BT and Bardorian I think. I haven't have a chance to read the other guys yet but I vaguely recall Rawr not actually bothering me so I guess scumteam caught, whoo! (not really but lynch PX and I'll be able to think 100% clearer) (because we'll have a scum flip)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Not actually sold on town!Serela, but lemme re-read PX. I don't want to lynch NNR or BT.

[NekoNekoRex]

##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex
You say I'm misrepping you (when I'm not - you pretty much need to thank Conq for your vote) but then you pull something like this. I am not "talking shit" about you I was referring to your "case" on me, plus I only have one vote. You think I'm scum because you've decided my scumhunting is bad for bad reasons and keep waving my "bad scumhunting" around like some kind of magic wand. I've pointed out the flaws in your case

Because he's scum and I actually have more non-meta reasons for you to look at now. But wait, you completely disregarded that post. Despite your vote basing off of my "bad scumhunting". I put down my two cents on that argument, but I'm not going to respond on behalf of Conq for your responses aimed at him. Also I don't like how you just put your hands in the air and give up on my case on you, waving it off as me spouting buzzwords. It doesn't make you look any batter
And TBF I was sure your wagon wasn't going to get support so it'd be a legit waste of time. I was also hoping my last few posts will change ~*~something~*~ but whatever. Maybe come up with or get on a case that's actually good?? ??

[NekoNekoRex]

*I've pointed out the flaws in your case and I'm not going to re-summarize it for you since that would obviously be a waste of time, considering your current opinion on it. Your play is bad, and therefore scummy, and your intent looks scummy enough, so I'm going to keep my vote where it is (alebit I'll have to change it if the wagon continues to fall apart)

I need to reread Serela and IHNN because apparently they're both garnering votes and i can't figure out why.

I can agree that Shadoweh has been pretty much useless this whole day, along with a few other select people (like Rawr and Hero). I need to look at them too and see if they're worth a secondary or tertiary vote.

[Serela]

I can agree that Shadoweh has been pretty much useless this whole day

I'm really not sure how you can say this after her last couple of very recent posts, especially considering how you're putting her on the same level of Dr.Rawr and Hero.

NNR is useless tier lynch today because whether scum or town he'll flip scum so it's 100% useless on information, and on D1 it's REALLY COOL to have a lynch that tells you something. Vote someone else. I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch him later, but Death Miller is like the worst d1 lynch ever even if it's lying scum.

Need to reread people like PX/Dormio. (Also respond to IHNN again and reevaluate Affinity. This is like, a checklist for me to remember what to do, or something.)

Anyway I'm making dinner and doing rereads after, actual post incoming... at some point before I go to sleep, I don't know. (And BT/Conq are still both not getting lynched. Shadoweh too. Also NNR. Shadoweh's checklist isn't perfect IMO but it's pretty darn close for right now.)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

There's nothing really "objectionable" about the PX lynch; feels like he's trying to convince Shadoweh she's scum and not the town and otherwise he's done shit all. Would take him over BT and NNR. After recent posts I'm settling on Shadoweh not trying to take advantage of silly townies enough to be scum. Meta read but I can usually pin town!Shadoweh pretty well when it's not Eyes so. Her blurbs about Serela don't really convince me, though, how do Serela's posts not match his scum thought process? Similarly, BT, how the hell could you call Serela's Affinity vote "okay"?

Also weirdest thing about NNR is him just handwaving Serela for no reason which makes me think he hasn't even read any of Serela's posts.

RE: BT: Already explained why the meta point is weak, but as for the voteswitch, I think Conq is actually being more productive by switching his vote when the wagon on me can't possibly be pushed any further and he says he's going to judge me based on play. Since then, his posts haven't really been that objectionable. I'm pretty sure "He is basically spinning a bunch of things that aren't scum as scum" is the exact same way Conq felt about you, so yeah.

Scum aren't posting is just because I think most active people are town.

[Serela]

Vote someone else.

And yes, we're in the last RL day of D1 (or we will be in about an hour, now that Schezo has shown me I was wrong about the deadline) so consolidation will be a thing and it's always better to get started early. Pesco is 100% right that motk takes way too long to decide to lynch. This is why there's so many weird lynches from crazy last-few-hour scrambles.

Scum aren't posting is just because I think most active people are town.

History says "Scum aren't posting" is often pretty true on D1 anyway, with a few meta exceptions like HW/Shadoweh.

Oh right. Dinner. So then I can do that and get to work on trudging through the thread again and stuff.

[Conqueror]

... It really doesn't. What I was referring to is early D1 and you guys didn't seem to post anything then. The earliest things I see is "has done nothing memorable" and "probtown for late push by Shadoweh".

If you remember, I voted you that game for not doing anything memorable, which matches up with my comment on you in the QT (esp if you add up the "leaning town" or "do not want to vote today" comments on the other people I provided in the same post, so you were a PoE "do nothing vote", how deja vu). But it should be pretty clear that I wasn't bs'ing my vote on you in that game, which is the relevant part of this conversation. The Shadoweh bit was from D2 when I thought she was scum iirc.

... Well, that logic is sound, but the thought I had in mind was "okay, he's pushing for a counterwagon, wait why is he moving his vote to me and ignoring that". It's like you pushed the wagon to gain something but proceeded to do nothing with it. The fact that you say that the wagon turned sour and whatnot only afterwards is fine and dandy but why didn't you say anything THEN? It's for that reason I think the push was not townie and now you're backing up your mistake.

The reason I said literally nothing about huhwhat when I unvoted is that I didn't actually have a reason to think huhwhat was more town despite all that. >_> It just gave me a feeling, so I wanted to move and think about it later. If I'd tried to put it in words at the time I would have been trying out for Serela's wafflehouse.

That seals the deal. Let's assume that this post did show me that my case was bad. I wouldn't be aware that it was "smoke and mirrors" before then so you're basically accusing me of not realizing it on my own, which I had no reason to. This is awful.

You're basically saying here, "Why don't you know I'm town? How dare you call me scum for doing stuff I wouldn't be aware of as town."
Do you see the problem with this? If you're scum you would have known you were peddling smoke and mirrors. If you're town you were pushing a bad argument. I don't know your alignment beforehand.

My effort to start the wagon IS the exchange, because yes, it's not going to happen out of thin air if people backpedal because of the claim. And I never said the claim makes him scummy, let alone "a big part" of it.
You're treating the fact I didn't place a vote as if I'm not making an effort. That's a spin.

You didn't make an effort before a few posts before this one. Before that it was just potshots about how NNR was ~*so scum*~.

If anything the gutso should show you that I'm not forking around. If I'd been insecure about it you'd just have mentioned that.

Not sure what this means. The point is that you were using strength of words to force through a poor argument (imo). Town can do this sure, but it's a favorite method of scum who use charisma to overcome the fate of being scum.

Why would I need an "excuse" not to go for an NNR lynch? If my case is really "smoke and mirrors" why don't I just move to NNR? You're saying things without thinking them through and painting them as scum.

You realize that's part of why I was voting you, right? The point is that scum!BT doesn't think the NNR lynch will go through, so he makes excuses to keep his vote on me even while presenting stronger arguments for scum!NNR.

He is basically spinning a bunch of things that aren't scum as scum. Lynch.

Feeling's mutual.

But despite that I'm willing to take a step back. Don't feel as strongly about BT scum as before, and I'm willing to sheep Shadoweh and huhwhat on this one.

[Conqueror]

In other words, PoR 2.0 vibes, plus I saw some other stuff.

Shadoweh is 100% meta!town, plus I agree with her list basically to the letter. Would firebomb PX/IHNN first though, and I find Affinity fairly town.