Ten Desires Mafia - Game Over

[Decade]

Assuming Miko's last post included a question of who I think is scum:
Right now I'm leaning scum on Soga, Seiga, Mamizou and Marisa following Soga's post. I'm leaning more on Soga/Seiga than Marisa/Mamizou however. I still find you claiming lack of notice towards Futo strange and scummy, but I cannot conclude that you're scum without more evidence of scummy behaviours from you and/or Futo's scum flip.

D1, yes, I did think Youmu was scum. I'm sorry for my choice of wording.
-cuts-
Okay, this Yoshika vs. Reimu needs to stop. Yoshika hasn't had any new opinions on Reimu for quite a while now, so your push against her is getting VERY stale. She did go about doing things, so stop pestering her to do more things.
Also, who's Fake Fever?

[Kaku Seiga]

First the defense of why I'm not nailing Reimu into the ground right now. 

Why should I take it upon myself to not have a second thought about who may be scum overnight?  At the end of the day Reimu was the one who I considered a viable wagon and the one most likely to flip scum in the events surrounding Youmu's lynch.  Kyouko's words in the middle of the nigh helped me to consider giving Reimu another chance and not to quicklynch her into oblivion like Nue would like to suggest I do. 

As for why I requested a post from Marisa and Nue, I thought I would use their post to solidify the reads I had.  I felt it was better for me to get more of their opinions out so I can clearly see where they were headed.  Now I can place what I was going to do out there.

If you're voting Marisa over Nue, you're doing it wrong.
Marisa may not have the highest amount of content but her opinions are clear and it's plain to see where she's headed when she does post. 
Nue on the otherhand spent the majority of day 1 with a votepark on Yoshika before sheeping the popular Youmu case.  I actually don't approve of the way she used her vote.  She started her vote on Yoshika in what I thought was conviction of scum, but drops it and claims it was just to pressure Yoshika after being called out on having a bad vote.  I'm pretty sure the motive for doing fits when she tried to get a bandwagon on Yoshika for her roleplaying figuring that most would sheep it for Yoshika being annoying to read.  When that didn't happen her fallback was to just get back to weak fosing people.  Her Reimu post doesn't show weather Reimu is either scum or not and gives her breathing room to form whatever opinion she finds fit, be it scum or town.
Since she decides today that her vote on Mamizou was indeed crap (it was) this brings all of her day 1 to a grand total of sheeping the Youmu case and firing off a weak townread on Reimu.
To respond to this travesty:
-No, it is not ok that you justify your lack of reads AT ALL as ok due to laziness or lack or paying attention.  You didn't have reads day 1 so don't write off the fact that you didn't as ok.
-I was in fact adressed in her will as a townread.
- I've already explained why I'm not "ignoring Reimu completely" and how that isn't even true.  Reimu is doing better than you and Toziko so I'm fine with letting her off again.

Also, considering her main targets have been Reimu, Youmu, and recently Marisa and me, Seiga feels like she's trying to dive into every possible posting policy lynch candidate, especially as seen by bashing Youmu pretty much only for her fluff and "not reading the game".

This line doesn't make sense.  I said I would give input on you and Marisa not that I fosed you, get it right.  That, and you're going to have to take apart my case on Youmu on why it was a fucking policy lynch if you want to throw out buzzwords.  I expect to see this.  You'll see it was far from a policy lynch and actually a standard case.

Following her [/Reimu] just now I find her behaviours very damning.

Again, what the fuck?

I want you to clearly show me how: "I think that Reimu's end of day play is still pretty bad and was viable as a counter wagon but as a new day we have a better lynch.  I am in no way clearing her yet but giving her a null read that she needs to really contribute to because I want to see the light of town!Raymoo."
got translated into
"Granted, she did acknowledge that she can't possibly get Reimu lynched today"
What the fuck was that?

Your latest posts' order of who you fos is riddled with disconnect.  Seriously you place the two people who you barely started fosing today,
My case which I'm having a real hard time finding anything resembling actual logic and your sheep towards Toziko over
Mamizou, who you voteparked day 1 over and are starting to drop for no reason and Marisa who you have more content towards why you fos her. 
Safe to say, Nue is scum.

I will make the response to Toziko in another post since this is enough for now.

[Faiz]

This is what we're looking for. Looking back, she was pretty much taking a back seat with the Youmu lynch for the majority of D1. Questions are mostly directed at other people while "Youmu is still scum". When it comes down to it, her involvement in the wagon is minimal. Also, the only point concerning Nue between the initial "bleh, null" read and today is #335, in which no actual conclusion is given. D1 has been a lot of open ends in general. Now Kyouko's 'case' exists so I'm an option and Nue gets voted for the same reasons from earlier - why is she scum now and wasn't scum then? The fact that Marisa's play can be considered similarly active-lurkish and helpful-but-unhelpful to my D1 yet there's a noticeable gap in attention is also one of the reasons making me look in this direction.

Why would there be a conclusion in a post that is questioning someone?
As for why I think she's more scummy now than then, her response to #335 was after I left. I wanted to be sure about her reasons before attacking her for them. It's pretty hard to show updated opinions if you're not around.
This really comes off as "look at this person doing the same thing, aren't they worse?".

I find the thief, at the very least, exceptionally rude for refusing to at least acknowledge the existence of the yamabiko's request of her after she was prompted a second time.

I thought what I had posted was enough, but ok. Will attempt to elaborate more in my next post.

[Kick Hopper]

Okay, this Yoshika vs. Reimu needs to stop. Yoshika hasn't had any new opinions on Reimu for quite a while now, so your push against her is getting VERY stale. She did go about doing things, so stop pestering her to do more things.

does this mean you also think yoshika is also scum?

sadly as it pains me to say this a reimu lynch at this point would be a waste as would be yuyuko.

##Vote: Nue
out of all the people coasting threw d1 with no reads on anyone, probably the worst.

[Faiz]

I thought what I had posted was enough, but ok. Will attempt to elaborate more in my next post.

PS include town reads y/n?

[Skull]

Dearest, I can understand the vitriol surrounding some of what was presented against you, but I do indeed still see the strong potential for enemy hiding in the shadows, yes. The general lack of follow-ups is what it is, and the vote for the gardener was still predicated on things already mentioned by others, even if it was not exactly as the yamabiko portrayed it in comparison to your vote for Miyako-chan. There is something to be said about simply seeing a proposal one agrees with, yes, but you will also notice that, twice now, in my pursuit of someone highlighted by others before me (the gardener and yourself), I have added my own take on issues I find that had not been previously covered. That the gardener was indeed acting like an enemy but turned out to be a misguided ally makes a vote such as yours, with no original content, more likely to be of enemy in origin than that of those that have tried to make their own case to a degree.

Miyako-chan, if you had cast your vote before the Hakurei maiden had made her presence known, for whom would it have been? I would also like to see you address the reasons the yamabiko and myself have brought up for the Hakurei maiden's likely townhood, since my previous post only implied that I wanted to hear this dialogue instead of outright asking for it. I grow nervous that you are trying to hang onto this vote in an effort to coast through the day given I believe a lynch of the Hakurei maiden is exceedingly unlikely.

"Miss" Houjuu, while I appreciate your list of people you find suspicious, why have you not voted for someone yet?

Miss Thief, I would only include town reads if you feel them pertinent. Claiming that you think someone no one is seriously suspecting is an ally is not particularly helpful information.

[Skull]

Ah, one more clarification thing. "Miss" Houjuu, "fake fever" has been previously established as my poor wife. The name is likely a reference to the Dragon Palace Messenger's use of electricity.

[OOO]

kyouko you card, you could have said that bit about reimu yesterday instead of being all coy.

anyway, i'm going to ignore the bit where reimu "forgets" about sanae's death because it's a particular brand of :wtf: that's actually not all that hard to fake, but at least reimu is pursuing her targets today in a way i can understand (and better yet, she has actual opinions). i also realized that most of the arguments i brought up yesterday about reimu not really thinking her vote through aren't really as strong since reimu's an obvious newbie. it's not like yuyuko has done anything townie anyway. a question for reimu though; does your suspicion of marisa stem mainly from her (relative) inactivity?

nue's reads on the other hand are all over the place. i don't see a logical transition from her day one opinions and all in all it's the same passivity and mostly null fluff she was showing yesterday. now she admits the mamizou vote was a "survival tactic" so combined with the yoshika vote that she disavowed that's two votes from yesterday she's not willing to stand behind. combine that with the fact that she still has yet to put a vote out today and vOv.

Right now I'm leaning scum on Soga, Seiga, Mamizou and Marisa following Soga's post.

there's no indication what parts of the marisa case you agree with, and in any case i dont know why you would sheep the case on someone who is apparently one of your stronger scumreads? case on seiga is pretty lol too but i think she's covered that.

I still find you claiming lack of notice towards Futo strange and scummy, but I cannot conclude that you're scum without more evidence of scummy behaviours from you and/or Futo's scum flip.

i don't understand why this is strange and scummy and nue hasn't talked about why it would be strange and scummy. it looks to me like nue is opportunistically cherry picking a point from kyouko's overnight post without really thinking about what she's saying. which is what most of her posts are like, really.

tl;dr nue has no scumreads beyond :sheep: and her content is all surprisingly unoriginal for someone with so many words.

##vote: nue

posting this first for now while i read up on other people but the amount of cruft nue has put out so far today is really annoying.

[Punch Hopper]

Prod dodge. Actual post in the next ~2 hours.

[OOO]

Seiga's explanation of her Reimu stance isn't faulty but at the same time it's damning that she had to wait a night to settle that Reimu might be town despite everything when she's been denying that during D1. You normally make sure you're sold about X not being town before you push X off a cliff, and this reconsideration is something that should have happened yesterday (let's not forget that reimu was being called town by several). Weighing in here is also the fact that her vote on me is flawed for reasons already stated. This is where my vote goes if it isn't Marisa.

Anyway, people are more or less dropping Reimu now, but D1 is something to look at. Seiga actually reads fine here considering she actively compared the Youmu and Reimu votes, but then there's Futo. Nothing concrete, but the stances on Youmu and Reimu look like they're there for the occasion. Handwaving Youmu as townfail still doesn't sit well with me, in direct contrast to yelling at people to look at Reimu at the same time.

don't understand how you get from "seiga's comparison of youmu and reimu was fine" to "seiga is scummy because she took a night to consider reimu!town"; looks like a suspicion driven by omgus. don't understand what you mean by my opinions being "there for the occasion" either, since i gave my justification based on their votes and words and i wanted reimu lynched over youmu because i thought she was more likely to flip scum, fancy that. handwaving schmandwaving; it's scummier that you're just handwaving everything i said as "handwaving" (look i can use buzzwords too.) i stand by the opinion that even without the benefit of the flip, if you just looked at the effort that youmu and reimu were putting into the lynches yesterday, reimu was a lazy git who deserved the lynch more.

also want to see the dialogue between seiga/soga/miko develop further before i can reread a conclusion; don't like soga's double standards towards townreads though. soga, why do YOU think reimu is town?

would like clarification on what yoshika wants reimu to "do."

want to see where kogasa goes with her posts today before passing judgement on her, especially a followup on this statement and how youmu's flip affects her reads:

Apart from Yoshika/Nue, I have zero interest in lynching anyone else who currently has a vote on them, and I want Youmu's flip before deciding more how I feel about either. Would be sunshine and happiness if Yuyuko was lynched, but I'm also totally happy with Youmu lynchings, so sunshine and happiness anyway! Hooray! I also think that Marisa is town and Youmu's Raw Potato claim is bs for :reasons:.

Youmu, don't get hung up over it. I have a ton of actual reasons I'm voting you. Or, well, pretend-voting you. It's like a little pebble on a hill.

stuff like this still makes me think kogasa was addressing town!youmu despite her protestations to the contrary.

[Faiz]

Houjuu Nue: Scum. Please die. No scum reads D1 (aside from Youmu apparently). Seemingly willing to go after anyone.
Soga no Toziko: Second choice for scum today. Mainly sheeping Miko's case now  :derp:.  Though I still don't like her vote on me in that it seems like she's trying to deflect suspicion for her D1 play onto me.
Miyako Yoshika: Third choice. Why is she ok with Nue when her reasons for voting Reimu (no case, appeasement, etc) are equally applicable to Nue?
Hakurei Reimu: I guess this counts since Yoshika is going after her? Anyway, "I really can't see her as scum after what Kyouko pointed out though. Particularly #83 and #91 give the impression of trying hard to get town headed towards a win. Call it gut I guess." from #462.
Kaku Seiga: A couple people were looking at Seiga IIRC. Don't see scum waffling over lynches like she did with Youmu and Reimu. Considering her strength on the Youmu wagon, it would have been easy to let it ride out as scum. Reads Town.
Everyone else is null or town and no one is really interested in them that I remember. So yeah.

I'm off for today. Will be back in a while.

[Decade]

She started her vote on Yoshika in what I thought was conviction of scum

I've already said, my initial vote on Yoshika wasn't serious. D1 I also had a weak scumread on Mamizou, but since it was weak and I was already voting Mamizou anyway I didn't state that outright. You said you wanted input from me and Marisa earlier, so I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted that as casting a suspecting look in our direction. And if I go back to your (initial) Youmu vote, I can see that your reasons for voting Youmu was her fluff, her not reading the game and her voting Yoshika for "trolling". My FoS at you only came up today because only today I see you shrugging off Reimu after others vouching her townread and then doing what I thought was taking an interest in Marisa and me. As for Soga, Kyouko posted a case against her during the Night, half of which I believed in. Now if sheeping that now is disconnected and scummy then wouldn't that be the case for anyone having (and will have) an interest in voting Soga today because of reasons similiar to those outlined in Kyouko but expressed no interest in her D1?

@Mamizou: What. No. That Yoshika has produced no addition significant reasons for pushing Reimu is a fact, scum or not.

@Futo: Now where was it...Oh yes here:

BREAKING NEWS
Player rereads game, gets different opinions
Story at 3

Kyouko posted a bunch of cases/opinions over the Night. If I was having trouble getting clear reads on everyone and none of that makes me think that any of the people she FoS'd is scum then I'd be tumbling through this game not reading anything. For the Marisa case, I agree with Kyouko's statement (which later somewhat echoed by Soga) that she was quite lacking in opinions in non-Youmu people, and that she was trying to lurk and leaving options open. As for why I though Miko claiming ignorance concerning Futo was scummy:

I think Miko deserves some scrutiny, as it looks like scumbuddies attempting non-association to me.

Also yes whoops I forgot about my vote. ##Vote Soga no Tojiko

[OOO]

I think Miko deserves some scrutiny, as it looks like scumbuddies attempting non-association to me.

Given that you don't seem to show suspicion of me or Miko individually how does this follow and how is it different from any of the other non-associative tells other people have with each other? It's a fluff opinion.
Curious: Marisa's D1 aside, what do you think of her D2 opinions given that she's voting for you? I'd think that would be relevant to your read on her but it doesn't look like you've had much to say on that angle.

[Kaku Seiga]

" And if I go back to your (initial) Youmu vote, I can see that your reasons for voting Youmu was her fluff, her not reading the game and her voting Yoshika for "trolling"."
In what way are any of these a policy lynch, and not just scum action?

"Now if sheeping that now is disconnected and scummy then wouldn't that be the case for anyone having (and will have) an interest in voting Soga today because of reasons similiar to those outlined in Kyouko but expressed no interest in her D1?"
False dichotomy, respond to the rest of my case.

I don't feel like respond to Toziko right now, my apologies madam.

[Decade]

The only way I can evaluate it without pointing out hypocrisy is that she just saw a fairly easy target, nail in "no scumreads = scum" and tunnelled on. Now that I'm really looking at her vs. me case, her case felt like she was testing the ice with weak reasons and poking first, and once people started paying attention and making more solid cases against me she took the leap and proclaimed "DEF SCUM KILL IT".

Screw it I'm going to add anyway that choosing to tunnel me instead of other possible targets, tunnelling me for taking a stance similiar to hers (difference being I threw out weak votes and opinions to save face while sheeping, while she only sheeped wagon then provided opinions about not at all) and going :WECAUGHTASCUM: right after other players joined in looks scummy to me.

The part that addresses me in this post looks particularly bad. Summary: Repeat what I just said, decide that's scummy, and the rest is fluff + restate Miko's words. I don't see how anyone would want to make their options limited if it's D1 and they have few clear reads, especially considering how almost all her options were unexplored D1 and therefore 100% open.

-cut-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but fluffing is bad behaviour NOT exclusive to scum. Neither is not reading the game nor voting a person for "trolling". Now forgive me for my distaste in Yoshika's RP, but it didn't make her appear to be serious or worthy to be taken at face value at all.

Let's see, which part of your case haven't I addressed...
"I am in no way clearing her yet but giving her a null read that she needs to really contribute to because I want to see the light of town!Raymoo." <--This felt to me as an equivalent of "well she's not getting lynched now so I'll just watch". Given Reimu seemed far from danger of a lynch ED2 making her a null read that she has to work to keep is no different from waiting for a while then check back on her for any new towniness imo. If you want to know why I even started this line of questioning, it was because I thought you were FoS'ing me and Marisa and that combined with your initial Youmu push made me feel like they were PLs.
As for my "Reimu post", that was solely directed at Mamizou, and it wasn't my opinion on Reimu at all (aside from the fact that Reimu didn't make it clear whether she still suspected Yuyuko or not).
@Your reply to my post: First point: I DID have a scum read on Mamizou by end of D1 (which I can't do much to pursue much now except by pointing how Mamizou's still sheeping it up instead of posting anything else), and if you still have problems with me only having 1 D1 scumread I have no non-meta defense against it, I admit. Second point: I was referring to the people Kyouko mentioned outside of the list. I mentioned this because you slipped my mind because Kyouko barely mentioned you at all.
@My sheeping Soga over Mamizou: Well, during the Night I only have 1 scumread, the suspect has barely posted anything, Kyouko posted a decent case against Soga. If I were to keep pushing for Mamizou lynch instead, what new point am I going to tread on? Also, for the disconnection problem, see my response to Futo.

[Decade]

Oh gawd no I made a HTML fail.

[Punch Hopper]

Not interested in a Reimu lynch for today, would be flipping a coin which we could have done yesterday. We had our chance to get rid of her D1 and you guys killed Youmu instead. Meh.

##Vote Marisa

Has spent considerable effort all game to stay out of the line of fire. Does give opinions and reads to a degree, but there's a pronounced sense of reserve in there.
The cautiousness oozing from her posts reads scum. Read them, notice it and vote accordingly.

Needs a post from the umbrella girl. Not going to want her dead over Marisa today unless she does something particularly egregious or Marisa somehow does something townie, though.

Not interested in the Nue case. Could be persuaded to hang Seiga solely on gut, but would much prefer a Marisa lynch because I actually know what makes me think she's scum.

[NekoNekoRex]

>V-V-Votecount!
Soga no Toziko (3): Toyosatomimi no Miko, Kaku Seiga, Houjuu Nue
Houjuu Nue (3): Kirisame Marisa, Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Mononobe no Futo
Hakurei Reimu (1): Miyako Yoshika
Saigyouji Yuyuko (1): Hakurei Reimu
Kirisame Marisa (2): Soga no Toziko, Saigyouji Yuyuko
Not Voting: Tatara Kogasa
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. You 48 hours have left in the day!

I'll be honest: I have no experience with the new characters Ten Desires introduced. Not a clue. Everyone else? You're all good in my memory. Ten Desires? Nada. It's a mystery.

[NekoNekoRex]

Tatara Kogasa has been prodded.

[Kaku Seiga]

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but fluffing is bad behaviour NOT exclusive to scum."
It has more scum benefit than town benefit and is in fact a scum action.  You're wrong.

"Neither is not reading the game"
So if I voted someone and it was apparent I didn't read the game to come to my vote conclusion, that would be an acceptable town thing to do?  No, you're wrong.

"nor voting a person for "trolling""
When it was apparent she wasn't trolling.  Still wrong.  This isn't a policy lynch, it is a scum lynch based on what I perceive as scum actions.

If your first response when I ask for more content from the two of you is to omgus because you thought I was fosing you when all I requested was content, you're being over defensive and thus scum (whoa).

Yuyuko may be vigged from this point on.  Why don't you start by pointing out what is over cautious, why she's worse than Nue and why you disagree with the Nue cases popping up?  There's some damning stuff in those that it's bad for you to just overlook because god knows why.

[Skull]

A busy evening has come to a close, and I must depart for slumber. I apologize for being unable to properly investigate the thief's total play tonight; I will make it a top priority tomorrow.

I do not have a problem with Kaku-san at this juncture, her posts seem well-substantiated to me and I find the arguments brought to bear against her rather lackluster. I could go into further detail about this but I think her responses to them do that sentiment sufficient justice that I do not feel I need to.

Should I not be able to have my poor wife escorted from the premises, I would next support the removal of the shapeshifter, something I say full in the knowledge that the shapeshifter's vote sits on my dear Tojiko-chan at present. Given both are under heavy pressure today I do not think an attempt at distancing is out of the question. This preference is due to a combination of my words, Kaku-san's words, and Futo-chan's words. I am not sure where her latest comment about finding tunneling on her scummy comes from, as near as I can tell all of the dissatisfaction coming in her direction originated from people that have considered the possibility of other people being enemies.

I believe the ghost princess is acting in her own best interest, which, amusingly enough, will probably end up getting her killed. That aside, her behavior is decidedly anti-town; I have not felt meaningful effort from her to get her fellow players to buy into her opinions. Strong language, perhaps, but that strong language is largely empty rhetoric. This implies a lack of care as to whether or not she gets what her votes would indicate she wants, which in turn implies a desire to coast through the day over more active participation, which is a decidedly scummy mindset. I am not sure which of her and Miyako-chan I dislike less, though I do know I dislike both of them less than my poor wife or the shapeshifter.

Putting aside the fact that I have lacked the time to study the thief in-depth, I do not think terribly ill of anyone else at present, though I would like to see more from the raccoon than what she had provided so far today.

[W]

I noticed my account had a message... it was a prod!

...from two years and a month ago in SA Mafia.

I'm amazed it still hadn't been checked before now, because yes, it was a new and unread message :V

Anyway, seriously,
##Vote Yuyuko Saigyouji

As I've said before and everyone's noticed by now, her D1 content is nigh-nonexistant, and her post today is, while not as bad as that stuff, still pretty darn lackluster.

...blargh, procrastinating on posting until after midnight is bad x_x First I read the Soga cases right after I wake up and am tired and groggy (I went back to sleep after >_>) and now I'm tired again. My scum senses aren't tingling but I'm not really capable of actually comprehending what it's about either, so- yeah :T

I'm similarly incapable of producing anything on Nue for the moment, although I still don't like her.

Blah I need to NOT procrastinate after I wake up tomorrow, so that I can actually like, make a post that doesn't suck.

I think I can safely say that I prefer Yuyuko's lynch over any others today, though. And we're NOT lynching Marisa :T

I'll go through Nue/Soga stuff after I sleep, it'll be useless gibberish if I try now >_< G'night.

[Ryuki]

does your suspicion of marisa stem mainly from her (relative) inactivity?

Partially that, and the fact that her D1 had hardly any substance to it with what she did post, and she just sorta... climbed on the Youmu wagon.

Still not impressed at Yuyuko at all. Seems to me she's just re-iterating the existing arguments for Marisa, although at least it's not jumping on a wagon [Jumping on Nue or Soga would be more likly that], so at least she's, I wouldn't say pushing, but voting for whoever she thinks is legitimately scum.

The arguments about Marisa being careful and making effort to stay out of the line of fire apply even more so to herself, seeing as she's hardly posted, let alone of substance, so there's nothing to be used against her. If she is suspecting Marisa as scum for reasons that apply more to herself, that is not a good sign.

Seems like I'll need to wait longer to make up my mind on Kogasa.

Happy with what Futo has said, in terms of content and coming out from the shadows she's been in.

On the Nue stance, I will say that pretty much everything you could say against Nue on weak votes and lack of scumreads applies doubly so to Marisa, and Marisa also lurked D1 rather heavily, and rode the wagon too. I would support a Marisa lynch over a Nue lynch anyday right now, and a Yuyuko lynch over Marisa.

[Kiva-la]

Uuuuuu~
YoSHika Know quEstIOn abOUt YoshikA THinkING MEan laDy soMEwhere buT noT boTHer find...
YoSHikA actuaLLy thINk mEAn laDy noT sCUm sinCe YOShikA Say unDerstanDIng thinKIng...
YoSHIka jUSt wanT MEan laDY ConTribute so VoTE meaN laDY...

YoShika noT knoW what DOing TodAY so YoshikA spEnd manY time readING...

YOSHika do Agree  cAse todaY FAKe fevER buT yOSHika nOT new THinkinG to Add aboUT...
YoshIka wANt reaD more PrincESs buT AgreE what REad TodAY...

##Unvote, Vote Kogasa Tatara

YoShikA stIll thinK aTTack oNLy dEfend mEan ladY bad!

##Vote Yo-UHHHH actually with all the votes on her you can just pretend I'm voting her while I'm not actually doing so.

Apart from Yoshika/Nue, I have zero interest in lynching anyone else who currently has a vote on them, and I want Youmu's flip before deciding more how I feel about either. Would be sunshine and happiness if Yuyuko was lynched, but I'm also totally happy with Youmu lynchings, so sunshine and happiness anyway! Hooray! I also think that Marisa is town and Youmu's Raw Potato claim is bs for :reasons:.

YoSHikA aLso noT like This poSt!
CraZy umBRella sAY still INterest in YOShika lyncH bUT also deterMine HalFbReed bad foR YoshikA reaSon!
NoT maKE mENtion YoshiKA agaiN!
YOshiKA woNDer how Crazy UmbreLLA fEel abOUt YoshiKA after HAlfbReed Flip!
YOshika alsO wonder whY meNTion YOShika if VoTE HalfBReed foR voTE YOshika!

NoT cONtent in SEcond DAy... YoshiKA waitiNG...

YoshiKA reAd PRincesS now...

YOShika HungRy...

[Kiva-la]

Miyako-chan, if you had cast your vote before the Hakurei maiden had made her presence known, for whom would it have been? I would also like to see you address the reasons the yamabiko and myself have brought up for the Hakurei maiden's likely townhood, since my previous post only implied that I wanted to hear this dialogue instead of outright asking for it. I grow nervous that you are trying to hang onto this vote in an effort to coast through the day given I believe a lynch of the Hakurei maiden is exceedingly unlikely.

YosHIka finD what loOKing foR earlY!

WhERe is NyanNyan...?

[Kiva-la]

YoshIka cAn see wHAt other say abouT PrinCesS buT YoshikA nOT thINking pRIncess scum...

[Faiz]

Now that I'm really looking at her vs. me case, her case felt like she was testing the ice with weak reasons and poking first, and once people started paying attention and making more solid cases against me she took the leap and proclaimed "DEF SCUM KILL IT".

My "weak reasons" seem to be a pretty integral part of the other "more solid cases" as well. Anyway, #462 should make it clear that I thought you were scum before other people jumped on you, since I'm saying you're obvscum in it.

(difference being I threw out weak votes and opinions to save face while sheeping, while she only sheeped wagon then provided opinions about not at all)

I don't think my Youmu vote was as bad since I was the first to point out the weak Yoshika vote.

The part that addresses me in this post looks particularly bad. Summary: Repeat what I just said, decide that's scummy, and the rest is fluff + restate Miko's words. I don't see how anyone would want to make their options limited if it's D1 and they have few clear reads, especially considering how almost all her options were unexplored D1 and therefore 100% open.

So part of why you find me suspicious is that I was "leaving options open", yet you're defending how you did the same thing. Pretty hypocritical.
How is the rest fluff?

YoSHikA actuaLLy thINk mEAn laDy noT sCUm sinCe YOShikA Say unDerstanDIng thinKIng...
YoSHIka jUSt wanT MEan laDY ConTribute so VoTE meaN laDY... [...]
NoT cONtent in SEcond DAy... YoshiKA waitiNG...

Oh boy, this again. So you voted Reimu to get her to make content, you're voting Kogasa to get her to make content. Also

WaIT and sEe sCUm!

:V
What's your opinion of Nue, again? Since my question in #489 was apparently not explicit enough.


Don't have anything to say about Yuyuko that hasn't been said. But I'm not interested in lynching her today due to there being worse people.

[Kiva-la]

What's your opinion of Nue, again? Since my question in #489 was apparently not explicit enough.

Yoshika sAY noT reALly THinking AliEn ScuM EarlY...
NoT tiMe rEreAd buT CuRrent THinkiNG noT chanGe...

Oh boy, this again. So you voted Reimu to get her to make content, you're voting Kogasa to get her to make content.

NoT!

[Ryuki]

Just quickly popping in to say that later I'll be re-reading this extensively to decide fuller opinions on everyone. A short re-read of stances on Yuyuko has persuaded me to keep her as the vote we should default to if we can't come to a consensus at any point in the game, unless, of course, she gets killed or shapes up before then. Finding hidden scum and scumhunting actively is more important that just sitting on Yuyuko right now.

This is mainly to stop myself tunnel visioning on someone the town already seems to agree is anti-town at best. In all honesty, she's so blatantly anti-town at this point I'm starting to wonder if she's a third party that may win if lynched, or something along those lines.

##Unvote Yuyuko Saigyouji

I agree with Marisa on the 'Yoshika is voting people to make them make content'. That said, Nue did this before to get Yoshika to make what she wanted clear before.

[Den-O]

Plenty of steam blowing was to be had.

##Unvote, ##Vote Seiga

Seiga. When town sees someone calling their vote bullshit they either prove them wrong or reconsider their stance. You blatantly ignored me, yet at the same time you have no problem staying super convicted and calling people out for not looking my way. Maybe you haven't noticed, but you didn't justify your vote. It is literally equivalent to not being there. I'm dumfounded that no one else had it in mind to call that shit out. I have no reason not to believe she hasn't responded because it's easier that way. Look at Miko's reaction for the expected kind of reaction. Now look at Seiga's lack of a reaction to her votee that is directly calling her out for the vote. See it? Good. She found enough time to reply to Nue but my case is different entirely fsr.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough earlier in regards to her Reimu stance. The problem isn't reconsidering reads overnight. The problem is not doing so when you wanted to swing the damn wagon from someone you also thought was scum. The problem is also needing an insomniac innocent child to read Reimu again and discover that she might need a second chance and, again, not doing that when she was actually lynching her. D2 is a fresh start as if D1 hadn't existed at all. You bet Nue had the right idea here when she accused you of not staying true to your D1: if you were convicted enough to swing the wagon and announce scum!reimu if town!youmu, suddenly seeing it in a different light and acting like it's fine and dandy is like pretending you didn't have a D1.

Feeling this stronger than Marisa, but my thoughts there are more or less unchanged. No, I do fully expect you to post your thoughts on something instead of dryly stating faults and waiting for a reply if they're enough for a vote a day later while staying exactly the same. Nue's response wasn't much of anything, so I don't see how that'd give you a clear green light to anything if it wasn't there before. Also relevant is how your end-all reason for voting her is lack of reads when it was a recurring theme during the entire game so far. You could have chatted about Nue's uselessness on D1 too but you didn't, because a wagon was happening and you were content with that. You're doing it now because it's useful to getting a wagon going.

I'm pointing out reasons your play is different from mine, actually. You would reach the conclusion that I was comparing our play if you only read the last sentence. Apparently that's enough to go on and accuse me of deflecting, though. What the hell? This would be the only thing you brought up against me too, since you rightly concluded that all else you're doing is sheeping to cases. I'm fully expecting people to give her hell for this when she finds it enough to justify a switch (since apparently it's enough to rank me above Yoshika).

I feel like I should note Marisa's reason for clearing Seiga. Apparently it's easy to stay on Youmu considering the wagon's strength but it's impossible for scum to use that time to build a followup lynch instead.

Futo: Reading isn't hard. I was noting someting that could apply to my scumread so I noted that it, specifically, doesn't. It's completely unrelated to what I found bad about her. Why is that weird at all? No, I'm not handwaving "everything you said" about Youmu because you didn't say more than two comments, and those were "townflail" and "reimu is worse", so yes, my accusation stands. I would argue that 'buzzword' is being used as a buzzword at this day and age but that's unrelated. As for double standards - fair enough. What I'd say is going for Reimu (and what made me think good of her on d1 too) is that her thought process is crystal clear. It's horribly misguided and disruptive at times and people have taken full advantage of that, but it's authentic and that's what matters when you try and figure out if someone's to be cleared as town or not.

I should make it clear that I don't buy into Yoshika's prod business - why are you prodding her for lacking content when you've been pushing her off a cliff for it on D1? No, this didn't look like a prod and doesn't look like a prod. Nor should you be opting for prods at all if you clearly suspect people. But that's explained - conclusion on Seiga has been on delay for the entire day and I'm not getting lynched because she has nothing original to add to the cases. Yeah, you read that right.

I'm giving you one last chance to convince me you're horribly ignorant town: you're sheeping to the cases against me when my latest post was specifically all about addressing that people shouldn't sheep to the cases and give things an actual look-see. What I want from you is the following: Show me your scumreads. Explain why they're your scumreads. And put your vote where it should be - on your scumpick, without any of these excuses. If you fail to deliver today I will not be holding back tomorrow.

Notable is that Nue is also guilty of sheeping the case when I specifically told people not to. You explained your stance to some degree but I have no idea where that ranks up with Seiga or Marisa, the latter of which you expressed more dislike at recently. In fact you've posted a lot more on other people. Just because I'm the other wagon doesn't mean your vote belongs there, sis. I have faith in you (already stated that i like your opinions today) so actually look around and change that vote. And town have nothing to :ohno: about from wagons, so you should act accordingly.

Ironically Yuyuko showed more content in two lines than the person voting her for it. Kogasa, dudette, I know it's hard, but try to actually read the game, hmm? Why is Marisa not a lynch to you?

Reimu, get back in here and snuff out your scumreads. I know you can do it.