Author Topic: Ten Desires Mafia - Game Over  (Read 91799 times)

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #210 on: August 17, 2012, 03:02:02 AM »
ughhhh

reimu creates a unreliable gambit and yuyuko votes her because "policy lynch". Reimu completely ignores the reason for why yuyuko is voting her and votes her back just because of the gambit. She explains shes voting yuyuko because of the gambit she made so she wouldnt have to randomly vote people for some reason. The problem with that is shes just creating a reason for herself to vote. Yes that maybe better then randomly voting but shes putting herself in a situation she created so she could have a vote(incredibly lame one). She talks about how mafia we should be convincing people about who are scum suspects are but does 0 :effort: to do this. in her 117 she unvotes because yuyuko isnt popular enough apparently. Her dropping her vote do to unpopularity and also talking about how mafia is about convincing people where she put no effort into convincing anyone(she even mentions how her gambit isnt even reliable in catching scum) makes me think shes scum.

-cut-
Quote
I find it strange that you keep insisting that Reimu still suspects Yuyuko
because she does

Quote
unless you're talking about Reimu's suspicions on Yuyuko, which would make that post out-of-place as no one said anything about Reimu's suspicions either
uhhhh it never went away, the fact that her reasoning for keeping it is lame. its not out of place either if her reasoning was incredibly weak why not drop it completely?

Quote
even if said suspicions are still there, why would scum seriously "suspect" town? Scum would prefer to avoid tunneling anyone, especially this early in the game, and leave their options open, don't you think? And even if I'm wrong about that last sentence, why would scum want to appear to be suspicious of anyone this early into the game over an unreliable gambit?
quit telling me what scum can and cant do.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #211 on: August 17, 2012, 03:06:04 AM »
Miyako Yoshika (3): Soga no Toziko, Tatara Kogasa,
Hakurei Reimu (3): Saigyouji Yuyuko, Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Miyako Yoshika
Konpaku Youmu (3): Kirisame Marisa, Kaku Seiga, Kochiya Sanae
Kochiya Sanae (2): Toyosatomimi no Miko,  Konpaku Youmu
Soga no Toziko (0):
Houjuu Nue (2): Mononobe no Futo, Kasodani Kyouko
Not Voting: Hakurei Reimu, Houjuu Nue

because

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #212 on: August 17, 2012, 03:09:04 AM »
She's either scummy or didn't think through her posts at all. I'm leaning more towards the later, but I might change my mind. Her previous posts seem to be nitpicking on people to jump on easy cases to me.

Also IIRC, Reimu's gambit was just about the end of RVS, so when I saw Yoshika immediately levitating towards Reimu I shrugged and winged a random vote at her and hinted my slight distaste for her attitude. After that I just kept the vote their because [reason already stated].

-cut-
Now it might be true Reimu still has suspicions, but I don't see how that would matter. Again, if Reimu was scum then it'd be unwise to me that she'd keep clinging to one target like that and not consider other options after the first one collapsed.
Also, Reimu's post is ambiguous enough to not make it clear whether she still suspected Yuyuko or not. Unless you can explain why the existence of Reimu's suspicions matters, I don't think your line of reasoning is going anywhere.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #213 on: August 17, 2012, 03:11:20 AM »
Quote
Now it might be true Reimu still has suspicions, but I don't see how that would matter
I wouldnt even if her the original reasoning behind her suspicions wasnt lame

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #214 on: August 17, 2012, 03:13:14 AM »
Miyako Yoshika (2): Soga no Toziko, Tatara Kogasa,
Hakurei Reimu (3): Saigyouji Yuyuko, Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Miyako Yoshika
Konpaku Youmu (3): Kirisame Marisa, Kaku Seiga, Kochiya Sanae
Kochiya Sanae (2): Toyosatomimi no Miko,  Konpaku Youmu
Houjuu Nue (2): Mononobe no Futo, Kasodani Kyouko
Not Voting: Hakurei Reimu, Houjuu Nue
fixed.

Just pointing out that Miko's vote is her random vote and that she hasn't posted in 16 hours.

Also adding that I will likely not be posting for a similar length of time due to travel.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #215 on: August 17, 2012, 03:15:17 AM »
I wouldnt even if her the original reasoning behind her suspicions wasnt lame
So you admit that Reimu's suspicions don't matter. Yet you keep repeating they still exist because...?

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #216 on: August 17, 2012, 03:24:44 AM »
uhhhh ill probably need to rephrase that

It matters because the reasoning behind the vote and suspicion were incredibly bad. If she had completely dropped it all together or did create such a shit gambit i probably would have unvoted

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #217 on: August 17, 2012, 03:26:29 AM »


Such noise! Thank the fates I had designed these for just such an occasion.

I do not presently believe the Hakurei shrine maiden is our enemy. I think she is inexperienced in battles of wits and has no problems displaying this inexperience. (After all, it is my experience and understanding that the Hakurei shrine maiden has no need or wants for wits when she can and will instead simply barrel through whatever obstacles she feels present themselves.) I am reminded of the previous kerfuffle in this forum where two neophytes drew undesirable attention early on the first day for doing neophyte things.

I do not presently believe Kaku-san's jiangshi is our enemy. I think she has been far too clamorous over her case to be one who works via shadows. I would also probably find her case agreeable if it targeted someone I knew for sure to be more experienced than the Hakurei shrine maiden; while I think it is misguided in this particular instance, I can appreciate the core content.

I also do not presently believe the umbrella is, at least in the context of this soir?e, our enemy. Kaku-san's jiangshi dislikes the umbrella for much defense of the Hakurei shrine maiden, but from what I can tell, most of this defense is necessary to support her reasons for her vote for the ghost princess, so I do not hold it against her.

The raccoon I could see as an undesirable; in reading through the transcript of this game, I find that I see much of her face, but by the time I am done I also find that I remember very little of anything she has said. The shapeshifter is similar in this regard.

The gardener swordswoman, however, I find myself more concerned with. Her initial vote for Miyako-chan is based on the presime that pressing one's point is scummy, which is both unexplained and a position I do not agree with. Herattempt to discredit another point of Miyako-san's is nothing but, as saying that "Waiting to make a more informed decision would benefit a player playing as scum or as town" is a generic punch-less statement that fails to take into account the large amount of information already present (which Miyako-san points out here). There are also statements like this:

I also believe Yoshika is scummy due to the way she's pushing for Reimu-repeating a statement over and over doesn't make it true.

the content is the same point repeated over and over, almost as though she's trying to convince herself that Reimu's appeasement is scummy.

However she has done nothing to flip my read of her, and her reaction to being asked a question is to leave.

These are all very unfair, disingenuous statements. The first two are unfair because Miyako-san has been pushing her points because other players (including you, my dear gardener!) have been prompting her to do so, by asking questions or trying to refute points. The third is unfair because Miyako-san had just spent the last three and a half hours posting like crazy, responding to prompts left and right. These are nothing but attempts to sow seeds of dissatisfaction with Miyako-chan in the hopes the sentiments will stick in the minds of others.

Her reread "result" seals the deal for me; suddenly Miyako-chan is okay, with no explanation given as to why the reread made her look better. I would expect at least a few words given how engaged the two had been throughout the last several hours. It is worth noting that this comes after the previous general interest in thinking Miyako-chan is our enemy has died down a bit. The hop off of Miyako-chan comes with an equally unexplained hop onto the living goddess. The gardener claims "Sanae's earlier posts had made her need rope"? How? Why? This vote was completely untelegraphed - search through her notes for comments about how undesirable Sanae is, you'll find nothing - and with the total lack of explanation, completely unjustified, outside of noting something Futo-chan pointed out. With, of course, no explanation as to why that one line is voteworthy above all else that has transpired.

##Unvote
##Vote: Konpaku Youmu

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #218 on: August 17, 2012, 03:31:20 AM »
Quote
The way I see it, seeing Reimu as town has little effect on Yoshika being scum. Your case is simply Yoshika is scum because the way she pursues Reimu.
I said this because what she said was kind of extraneous. She said that the way you interpret Yoshika's actions affects how you view Yoshika as well, but she votes Yoshika simply because of how she pursues Reimu, implying that it would still be scummy had she pursued someone different. In other words, her case is based on the method used, not the target of the method.

Youmu voted Yoshika because she didn't like how Yoshika was pushing her case. I'm voting Youmu because her vote wasn't backed up with reasons that weren't convincing to me, and because I wanted her to clarify things that she left somewhat vague (at least for me). I don't see the hypocrisy here?

Either way Yoshika seems better after the re-read so ##Unvote
I'd still lynch her if she was a wagon at deadline but Miko and Marisa need to say more (Miko has all of 1 post near the beginning about 12 hours ago and Marisa has 2 or 3 in the same span).

-cut by Futo-
How did I not catch that about Sanae  :derp:
Sanae's earlier posts had made her need rope but that observation just seals the deal.
##Vote: Sanae

I can't be the only one who sees something wrong with this.
Yoshika suddenly looks better? What exactly changed your mind about her in the reread? I mean, in the post right before it you're still questioning her, which implies you're willing to pursue her. But then the sudden shift.
And of course, it's on to me, who happens to be voting you. Hmm. Regardless of that, what exactly makes me scummy again? I've already refuted the alleged hypocrisy above, so you're left with "my earlier posts made me need rope". Ok, if you're implying that my posts were lacking, why not bring it up earlier? This is literally the first time you've mentioned it, at least. Once again, clarification, please.

My vote stays on Youmu, because of her lack of clarity in shifting off Youmu onto me, adding on to what I didn't like about Youmu earlier. I'll look at Nue and Mamizou into a bit more depth, but from a cursory glance I don't think either Nue or Mamizou are scummy (or scummier than Youmu, anyway).

Cut by Miko who seems to have covered the same thing.

Ouja

  • Ouja
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #219 on: August 17, 2012, 03:33:43 AM »
I was having doubts about Miko's roleplay being difficult at first but I see that those doubts were unnecessary. :V Kudos to you for being fantastic at being Miko.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #220 on: August 17, 2012, 03:51:25 AM »


Your laudation is most appreciated, my dear. This is the least I can do for everyone else's enjoyment.

"Miss" Houjuu, if that is your real name, I noticed that, when Futo-chan voted for you, she asked you (however succinctly) about who you believe to be the enemy. I notice your response did not address that question, and you have not placed your vote since removing it from Miyako-chan, nor have you given any other opinions on who you think the enemy is, only discussing how the Hakurei shrine maiden might or might not be and you don't think she is but you aren't really sure. Your words are not the words we want to hear from you. I will repeat Futo-chan's question - who do you find undesirable? (Ideally, your response will include a vote that reinforces your opinion with the public firepower you possess.)

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #221 on: August 17, 2012, 03:53:54 AM »
Yoshika looked better after the re-read because I looked at it with a fresh mind, not "k jiang-scum ahoy"  Of course, there's nothing else I can say that hasn't already been said.

I thought I had mentioned Sanae before, apparently not.  I will clarify when I get the chance though.  Quick comment for now though: repeated pushing of me to answer points that were already, I think, well explained on Yoshika alongside clearing Nue for being subtlely different up until recently or something.

Overall this game I've been coming to the same conclusions as other people have it seems after they already have, and have been getting cut on them.  I'm probably going to get voted even more for this, but I'm too tired to defend myself properly right now.  I'll try and put together a better response tomorrow morning before leaving.


D1 trend I'm noticing: the more vocal players tend to be voted simply due to more content > more ways to build a case.  Perhaps I should try being less vocal in future games?


Apologies for any incoherence in the post.


-cut-
I thought I addressed Nue in my most recent post.  Looking back apparently that paragraph was lost.  gah, stupid back button.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #222 on: August 17, 2012, 04:00:59 AM »
Fine, I'll reiterate. Right now Mamizou seems scummiest to me. Agree that Youmu's recent doings are also scummy.
##Vote Mamizou
I've got to go now, though. I'll look over things more closely and give a firmer opinion tomorrow.

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #223 on: August 17, 2012, 04:05:01 AM »
>V-V-Votecount!
Konpaku Youmu (4): Kirisame Marisa, Kaku Seiga, Kochiya Sanae, Toyosatomimi no Miko
Hakurei Reimu (3): Saigyouji Yuyuko, Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Miyako Yoshika
Houjuu Nue (2): Mononobe no Futo, Kasodani Kyouko
Miyako Yoshika (2): Soga no Toziko, Tatara Kogasa
Futatsuiwa Mamizou (1): Houjuu Nue
Kochiya Sanae (1): Konpaku Youmu
Not Voting: Hakurei Reimu
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have 24.5 hours left in the day

Sorry for lack of votecounts, has mainly been because of high posting rates and the players beating me to them like twice.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #224 on: August 17, 2012, 04:32:22 AM »


What, this is all I recieve after my efforts? I was hoping for a little more to work with while I am actually present. Not all of us can spend all day sending off messages as if they were going out of vogue, you know. Unfortunately, the time has also come for me to depart.

The gardener's pseudo-defeatist attitude, pseudo-appeal to emotion is noted, as is the lack of anything tangible as to why her opinion on Miyako-chan reversed. Can you please point to specific quotes or behaviors that made you change your mind about her? Things you thought were malignant before but no longer feel so now, and reasons thus.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #225 on: August 17, 2012, 04:47:03 AM »
I find many of the points brought up against Youmu agreeable, will be keeping my vote there for now.

I can't find where Sanae actually cleared Nue instead of merely saying that Youmu was worse.

Quote from: Konpaku Youmu
Mamizou's reasons for voting Reimu as a whole seem to be based off of interpretations of Reimu's actions.

What else are you supposed to vote people for if not how you interpret their actions?

Will try to make a post on Nue soon.

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #226 on: August 17, 2012, 06:04:42 AM »
Could you be a little more vague Kirisame? I almost understood your thought process there. What points against Youmu do you find agreeable?

The three people I find should have protected me with their viggable bodies right now are Yuyuko, Soga no Toziko and Marisa. There's something about Mamizou that pegs me as off but I honestly can't see anything wrong with what she's doing.

gonna sit on this votepark because I can. Go ahead and stop me. B|


Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #227 on: August 17, 2012, 06:41:58 AM »
Bleh. Nue reads as mostly null. I guess I would be willing to vote her later if necessary. If she didn't want to lynch Yoshika, why not try to get her to elaborate without voting her?

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu
Knowing we only had one No Lynch, I suggested I thought it was a good idea, looking for someone to jump on this as a reason to lynch, looking for the hastiest person to lynch someone, especially someone attempting to organize the town in one direction. A ripe choice for the scum, the one attempting to guide everyone to a unified decision.
How does this make someone scum if townies are also supposed to convince people to lynch their target?

Quote from: Kasodani Kyouko
Could you be a little more vague Kirisame? I almost understood your thought process there. What points against Youmu do you find agreeable?
Quote from: Toyosatomimi no Miko
Her initial vote for Miyako-chan is based on the presime that pressing one's point is scummy, which is both unexplained and a position I do not agree with.
...
These are nothing but attempts to sow seeds of dissatisfaction with Miyako-chan in the hopes the sentiments will stick in the minds of others.
...
suddenly Miyako-chan is okay, with no explanation given as to why the reread made her look better.
...
The gardener claims "Sanae's earlier posts had made her need rope"? How? Why?
Quote from: Kaku Seiga
This kind of stuff is just a lot fluff and game strats to make it look like she's contributing when really it's not.  Her arrogant attitude towards what I consider some stirring events that give a few reads on players is jarring to me.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #228 on: August 17, 2012, 07:56:09 AM »
Well, I'm awake now and I come back to a fair amount of questions.

he says he played the gambit to try and reveal the scum. well, reimu, who's the scum?

Unfortunately, the gambit itself has not revealed who the scum is conclusively, it may have given something to use later on, but there's not enough to go on now. You yourself said the gambit was to try and reveal the scum. Trying doesn't mean succeeding.

As for my opinions on the posts made while I was asleep, I'll save those for last.

@kyouko
vote dropped suspension hasnt

Well it was something I found as scummy enough to try and, in short, start a bandwagon. It'll always be in the back of my mind for this game. Besides, unless someone is clear you are supposed to suspect them. It's how the game works. I suspect everyone right now, because no-one is clear. Just like I expect everyone has doubts about me.

It's simply a question of who I find to be the prime suspect. I'll get onto that.

On the whole 1v1 matter, how am I attempting to force a 1v1 when I also mentioned 3 other options, all of them perfectly logical at the stage? We only had 2 reasons to lynch anyone thrown around at that point.
---

My stances on people right now:

Youmu: Now, from my point of view Youmu's speaking correct things, at least when she is defending me.  However, I also have to agree with Miko on the matter that thinking someone is scummy for pushing on someone to be lynched for pushing on someone they think is scummy, is a little... weird. It comes across hypocritical.

The jump on Sanae seems completely unjustified to me. Everyone is 'looking for rope' to lynch someone with. I did it too.

Sanae: I haven't seen anything that makes me think of her as scum. The same hypocritical argument Futo raises is the same one that could be applied to Youmu, voting for someone for voting who they think is scummy. That said, I've not really seen anything that makes me specifically think of her as town.

Nue: Seems OK to me. Specifically this post, where she explains her vote on Yoshika was simply pressure to try and encourage more reasoning out of her, and is attempting to help her get her point across better.

Yoshika: She's just doing what I was doing, in her own way. She thought I was scummy for how I acted, like I thought Yuyuko was. She's simply attempting to scumhunt, like I planned to scumtrap.

I'm pretty sure Yoshika is town, moreso than anyone else except maybe Miko at this point.

Now, I currently am leaning ever so slightly to Youmu, however, I'd like to hear more from Kogasa, Marisa and Yuyuko on this situation before I finalize my opinion. I'm not convinced enough to put my vote anywhere yet.

That, and, of course, I want to speak with the inevitable flurry of questions about to hit me. Of course, now I said that... it's not gonna happen.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #229 on: August 17, 2012, 08:32:28 AM »
YOShiKa haVe rETURned!
... StILl hunGry...

YOshika wANt cLAriFY.
Mean lady onLy thINK HalfbrEED scUM fOR now?

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #230 on: August 17, 2012, 08:33:18 AM »
YoSHika wonDer what MeaN lADY thINK oF PriNCess, Crazy UmbREllA and THIEf riGHT noW.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #231 on: August 17, 2012, 08:34:50 AM »
YoSHIka alSO see BIG discONnecT in HalFBreeD ThouGHT of yoSHIKA!
YOshiKA noT LIke DiscoNNect!

WheRE is NYannyAN?

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #232 on: August 17, 2012, 08:36:43 AM »
and her reaction to being asked a question is to leave.
YoSHIKa thiNK bIG MISreP!
YoshiKA noT Even KNOW wHAT qUEstIOn YOshikA miSS!

YoshIka HungeR...

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #233 on: August 17, 2012, 08:39:06 AM »
YOShiKa haVe rETURned!
... StILl hunGry...

YOshika wANt cLAriFY.
Mean lady onLy thINK HalfbrEED scUM fOR now?

As I hinted in the previous post, I still have some level of suspicion on everyone. If I -had- to vote right now, I would vote for Youmu, but only if I absolutely had to vote.

YoSHika wonDer what MeaN lADY thINK oF PriNCess, Crazy UmbREllA and THIEf riGHT noW.

Neutral for Yuyuko and Marisa, since they've hardly been involved at all. Slightly leaning towards town for Kogasa, although it's only a very slight lean right now, since I have not seen her reaction to something that is not a push to lynch me.

YoSHIKa thiNK bIG MISreP!
YoshiKA noT Even KNOW wHAT qUEstIOn YOshikA miSS!

YoshIka HungeR...

I have to say, if Yoshika needed to leave, she had to leave. She's back now, so it's not that she was running from any questions. I too think this is a slight mistep, and irrelevant reasoning. It's like saying me going to sleep for the night when eyes were on me is scummy. Unless timezones are reasoning to lynch someone now, I think that train of thought is mistaken.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #234 on: August 17, 2012, 09:13:38 AM »
YoshIkA thInk AlIen juSTifyINg YoSHikA voTE weIRd but YOshikA sTILl lIKE aliEN!

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #235 on: August 17, 2012, 09:21:19 AM »
D1 trend I'm noticing: the more vocal players tend to be voted simply due to more content > more ways to build a case.  Perhaps I should try being less vocal in future games?
YosHika noT likE APPEal tO EmotiON!

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #236 on: August 17, 2012, 09:23:58 AM »
YoSHikA woNDEr wHERe NYAnNyaN...
YoshIKA alSO thINK faKE FEvEr aNd princess and tHEIf nOt PlayINg...
YOShika want eaT Not PLayINg...
YosHIka HUngrY...

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #237 on: August 17, 2012, 09:27:30 AM »
She's simply attempting to scumhunt, like I planned to scumtrap.
Yoshika think Two SligHTlY DIffEReNT...

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #238 on: August 17, 2012, 09:36:04 AM »
YOSHIKA still not LIke crAzY uMbreLLa...

YoSHikA waNt CASE frOM mean lAdy!
YoshIKA EAt CAse! YosHIka HungRY!
MEaN LadY NOt mean theN haVE moRE caSE FOr YoshIKA?

WherE is SeiGa...?

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #239 on: August 17, 2012, 09:39:53 AM »
YoShikA ForGET sAY YoshIKa wilLinG Swap HalfBrEed if NeeD to!
BuT YoshiKA thINk haLfbrEeD bad thINkinG oNly BaD bRAin LIke yoSHika RottiNG bRaiN!