Adorable Game of Mafia (Everyone wins!)

[Raitaki]

asdasd Derp miscounted. Only 1 mislynch until LyLo, not 2 >_>; If it was possible I'd suggest a NL so that the next Day we would only have 4 lynch candidates left (not counting NNR), but Edible doesn't allow NL, so ;_;

Atm, my lynch preferences (based on the jumble of unassorted information and :gut: in my head) are BT > huh what > Kilga/Shadoweh (tie). NNR and myself ofc I won't lynch ;o

I TOLD YOU GUYS I'M SCUM. WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE THAT JK
Elsewhere, Kilgamayan crashed into a tree.
Hope you guys realize half the things I say while not very srs are lies.

also wat

[NekoNekoRex]

##vote is no longer a valid command.  To vote someone, you must ##FABULOUS Huhwhat

Huhwhat makes the most sense as PX's buddy imo. PX defends HW, HW's arguments look more like distancing, especially more towards the end of the day.

[Shadoweh]

Mr. Rex, could you be a bit more specific? I'm aware there are examples of all that, but as a case that's pretty lacking. At the moment I am far more inclined to complement BT's fabulous sprinkle taste. Also even if you are close to confirmed I would like to make sure you aren't coasting on the townie creds.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Last scum is probs Kilga but I just got home, am tired and don't feel like writing a case (though I have one in my head anyway).

##FABULOUS Kilgamayan until tomorrow morning.

I've decided I don't see scum BT anymore after PX's flip. If they were buddies, they went out of their way to bicker with eachother when they could have combined their votes to lynch a townie and probably have gotten away with it. Distancing wouldn't produce enough cred after BT's D2 flip-flop on PX. 6p LYLO with only the scum flip from a D1 lynch > 6p with 1 largely suspected scum with maybe some slight cred but not enough to carry. If they tried other options first I could maybe see it but BT and PX both gunned for eachother ASAP yesterday.

Also BT reads super town to me tonally but that's probably not worth much.

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm not coasting on townie cred, I'm still convinced that the scumteam is Serela/PX/HW

@Mod: IT SURE WOULD BE CONVENIENT IF I HAD SOME LINKS TO POSTS MARKING THE START OF EACH DAY IN THE FIRST POST

PX's last responses to HW don't come off as heavily resisted despite his resistance to other players posting about him. At some point it looks like PX was obvscum and I think HW took priority of that and hammered down PX for ~town creds~ while PX didn't make much of an effort to stop him.
HW case on PX was probably made to put a scum on my D1 wagon because everyone else on the wagon was obvtown and it was either HW or PX (or both, more then likely). Smarter PX scum would have chainsaw'd for similar reasons.
Omba's death was likely done to deflate pressure off HW, since Omba had a power role and was also pushing him.

Also setup specs but BT's claim is more believable then HW. "Cookies and Cream Townie" comes off as too generic.

Also [insert earlier reasons for voting HW here]

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Also setup specs but BT's claim is more believable then HW. "Cookies and Cream Townie" comes off as too generic.

Why isn't your vote on Raitaki?

[NekoNekoRex]

"Vanilla Townie" is ironic and makes sense considering his reaction to my Vanilla claim back on D1

[BT]

Early post.

BT, buddy, what exactly made this happen? You know this kind of shows you swing voting off of the scum wagon right?

I've already admitted that the switch was an error on my part (which means I can't really defend it) but I *can* show you my thought process at the time.

#431: "Wagons aren't any of my preferences, instead it's two people I've barely read into. ~_^"
#436: "Arg, in a hurry, PX D2 is lazy/nonexistent, would rather see him go than Affinity, okay, *vote*"
#444: "Getting called out for not reading properly when I... still haven't read properly. Okay, fair enough."
#455: "... <_< PX's D2 is better than I gave it credit for, yet here I am still voting him while nodding to the cases on Affinity and insisting that he's town. HHNNNG *vote*"

I guess "shit happens when you try speedreading two dudes you haven't read before [with a time limit] [at midnight]", because that's pretty much what happened. Also answers Kilga's "ISO'd him twice" which I have no idea where he got that from, considering that I noted more than once that I haven't read the thread properly.

Stuff later.

NNR: Why would Omba's death incriminate anyone at this point? He was 100% town and harder to convince.

[NekoNekoRex]

NNR: Why would Omba's death incriminate anyone at this point? He was 100% town and harder to convince.

He was voting HW

[BT]

~_~ It'd still be a reasonable (or THE reasonable, fair enough) NK for most parties, though.

EBWOP: "yet here I am still voting him in the mindset of still voting him". Thoughts are hard.

[NekoNekoRex]

Also if HW flips scum and it came down to LYLO I would probably lynch Kilgamayan

just a note

[NekoNekoRex]

EBWOP: *If HW flips town

That's the alarm saying time for bed

[Kilgamayan]

BT: I thought "Not the kind of prosperous reading I thought it would be, but whatever" meant you had reread. If not, what did it mean?

[BT]

It meant that I had read enough to conclude that I still preferred PX over Affinity. Only that it wasn't enough since apparently I like skimming over things and deciding that I understand everything when I don't.

[BT]

It's the Analyze the Flip show, with your host, Barely Awake man! Everyone likes the Analyze the Flip show.

One thing that still puzzles me is... whatever the hell went on with PX yesterday.

Because he's more 30% scum. With BT's scum flip, he becomes 100% scum.

He could never put his suspicion to words, instead directly linking it to me bcos buddying. He was pretty much a sure lynch at that point, which makes it hard to believe he was still pushing for my lynch in hopes that it happens. It could be an attempt to trick people into thinking it was distancing, but I don't know how probable that is. Considering that he essentially went for HW scum only if BT scum, it's possible that what he was actually trying to do was distance himself from HW, and that would also explain the weird jump.

In that case, though, HW #545 is completely nonsensical. Town were onto PX on D2, suddenly they're off, buddy PX sets up future Shadoweh vote one post above, obvious time to make a solid PX case. At the very least, he said he suspected PX and Kilga, so the reason his priority (PX over Kilga) wasn't flipped so that town continue to derp is nonexistent. It'd have to be a deliberate attempt to bus on D3 when a mislynch was super probable.

Regarding the post walls:

Kilga, stop watching detective shows :V
All in all, pretty good case on Shadoweh and much of it makes sense to me. Also, it reminded me of Case Closed and was a fun read :V
...
Shadoweh's response was likewise good, but Kilga's was better. Still need to check out people to see who are the scums.

This is that one post above. Oddly enough, he notes that I don't exist but the case magically shows up a bit later. Considering he was setting himself up for a Shadoweh vote, this is interesting, as he proceeds to call her town later. The other person with an off Shadoweh read is Kilga. At first he was pushing for a Shadoweh lynch. Then, he considers my being scum with PX, votes me, stays suspicious of Shadoweh and... PX is more or less uninteresting. His opinion on PX reappears at #593, at which point the PX lynch was well on its way and PX started doing whatever he felt like doing.

Arregggggghhhgggggg

Can't tell who is the other scum, it could be anybody but Omba. If anything, I'm leaning towards HuhWhat for the last scum, but that's only because of his buddying of BT and that's not concrete until BT flips.

And this is because...

I've come to the conclusion that Shadoweh/Kilga can't be scum, so the only one left who could is huhwhat. And I suppose NNR, but that is a very off crapshoot.

Because...

Shadoweh's case on Serela is too perfect. Koromo does not see scum Shadoweh pounding on Serela like that on D1 without noticing her scum buddy, and it caused everyone to get on Serela. Additionally, her Kilga defense are still great, and I just can't see her as scum at all.

You see where I'm going with this. The reason he cleared Shadoweh exists but not the reason he cleared Kilga. His connection to Kilga was minimal, only to state that he agrees with his cases. I don't recall him saying anything more during the rest of the game, too. Not that you're expected to treat your buddies all in the same way, but this is exactly how PX treated Serela.

Flips aside, "One scum between huhwhat/Shadoweh --> Shadoweh is scum --> BT scum actually makes sense with PX --> BT is scum, why aren't you voting the scum Shadoweh? --> Shadoweh still suspicious but not as much as BT" makes little sense if you suspected Shadoweh during all of this. Shadoweh successfully adopted your vote and, seeing as your Shadoweh suspicion has yet to be updated since ~569#, this didn't seem to raise any question marks whatsoever or change your mind. As it is, it could be revived at any given moment.

Together with my #586, this calls for a ##FABULOUS Kilgamayan.

[Kilgamayan]

More suspicion based on what a flipped scum said about a suspect instead of the other way around. :| I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a scum under pressure (PX) would try to buddy with a townie under pressure (me) in the event the scum gets lynched, for exactly this reason. Related to that, it's worth noting that the vote seems to fit Shadoweh's assessment of your votes as "safe", since I can't address what PX said and that's a good chunk of the post.

I am aware Shadowert voted you after I did. It didn't bother me all that much because I found you worse at that point and she had been expressing tangible dislike for you with quotes and why she disliked them any everything as opposed to what I felt were more general reasons why everyone else was scummy as well. (This is why I had asked her why she wasn't voting you already.) I don't understand why not being suspicious of her vote was/is a bad or scummy thing.

Since you mentioned your #586, which disapproves of the Shadowert/huh what personal dichotomy I had proposed, I suppose I should ask this now that PX has flipped - why would a PX/Kilga scum team kill IHNN Night 2? Why not, say, Omba instead?

[BT]

More suspicion based on what a flipped scum said about a suspect instead of the other way around. :| I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a scum under pressure (PX) would try to buddy with a townie under pressure (me) in the event the scum gets lynched, for exactly this reason. Related to that, it's worth noting that the vote seems to fit Shadoweh's assessment of your votes as "safe", since I can't address what PX said and that's a good chunk of the post.

My post happened to be centered around analyzing the scum flip, so yes, it included things that the flipped scum said and/or did. If you wanted to reply to things that relate to your actions directly, I had earlier posts too. If I were voting you for PX's actions alone, I'd have to consider the vote's accuracy, but they're not the only things supporting my vote.

I am aware Shadowert voted you after I did. It didn't bother me all that much because I found you worse at that point and she had been expressing tangible dislike for you with quotes and why she disliked them any everything as opposed to what I felt were more general reasons why everyone else was scummy as well. (This is why I had asked her why she wasn't voting you already.) I don't understand why not being suspicious of her vote was/is a bad or scummy thing.

Let's say that you suspect Player A. You then suspect Player B as well, to which Player A replies by agreeing and voting Player B. The normal response to this is reconsideration of those suspicions - Are they bussing? How likely would that be? Is only one of them scum? Which one? Et cetera. Your response was to have no response, and at the moment I have no idea what you think of Shadoweh, which was a serious suspicion back on ED3. This wouldn't normally be as interesting as it is, but you happened to consider her arguments, reconsider your reads (while making scumteam assumptions), change main suspicion, have her do the same, all the while still suspecting her like nothing's changed. And, as I mentioned in the previous post, leaving it like that benefits scum since they can re-utilize it whenever they want.

Since you mentioned your #586, which disapproves of the Shadowert/huh what personal dichotomy I had proposed, I suppose I should ask this now that PX has flipped - why would a PX/Kilga scum team kill IHNN Night 2? Why not, say, Omba instead?

Omba was essentially a confirmed VT. Unless he was exceptionally worrying for scum, there'd be no reason for them to not use the kill on suspected PRs instead. (in this case, the cop)

[Kilgamayan]

Let's say that you suspect Player A. You then suspect Player B as well, to which Player A replies by agreeing and voting Player B. The normal response to this is reconsideration of those suspicions - Are they bussing? How likely would that be? Is only one of them scum? Which one? Et cetera. Your response was to have no response, and at the moment I have no idea what you think of Shadoweh, which was a serious suspicion back on ED3. This wouldn't normally be as interesting as it is, but you happened to consider her arguments, reconsider your reads (while making scumteam assumptions), change main suspicion, have her do the same, all the while still suspecting her like nothing's changed.

People can be individually scummy, and scummy people can vote for other scummy people. I'm pretty sure Shadoweh tried to tell you this on Day 1. I'm also pretty sure that I thought Shadoweh's vote should have been on you and was going to go on you before I voted you (#562), so there was no post-vote reconsideration for me to do anyway. I already knew she suspected you and I had seen her bring more up against you than anyone else, and I had already considered all that when I made my change. Bringing up good points against you doesn't mean the scummy stuff she did just vanished, which was why she was still a suspect.

(For the record, knowing that one scum is remaining, I have a hard time seeing either of Shadoweh's game or huh what's game being a scum game. Off the top of my head I would have to say Shadoweh's case on Serela slightly outweighs the sentiment that huh what would have zero problem bussing Serela, but asking about this is rather pointless because (a) I don't see a Kilga/Shadoweh/huh what/???? LYLO happening, and (b) even if it did I'd want/have to reread them both from scratch and make a judgment call after that, which could very well change from this current opinion.)

And, as I mentioned in the previous post, leaving it like that benefits scum since they can re-utilize it whenever they want.

I'm pretty sure that, if we get to LYLO and I'm alive, I'm going to have to concretely justify whatever vote I make to have any chance that people will listen to me. Just going "Hey remember this Shadoweh case I had??? Well it still applies and imma vote Shadoweh" would get me lynched. So no, I can't just "re-utilize it whenever want."

Omba was essentially a confirmed VT. Unless he was exceptionally worrying for scum, there'd be no reason for them to not use the kill on suspected PRs instead. (in this case, the cop)

- What would qualify Omba as "exceptionally worrying for scum" if he's ostensibly a confirmed VT? The only thing he could do at that point is suspect and vote. But you'll notice that he wanted me dead ahead of everyone else and tends to be pretty stubborn...which seems like it would qualify for "exceptionally worrying" for scum Kilga, doesn't it?

- It is exceedingly unlikely that IHNN was killed because he was a "suspected" PR. Either scum had figured him out with a large degree of certainty (which would, in fact, lend credence to my initial theory) or he was a direct threat to them as a player instead of as a cop. Remember that he couldn't use his ability N2 unless he was willing to give it up for the rest of the game; if scum don't know who the cop is but they know he would be sacrificing his ability for good if he investigated someone N2, they're not going to guess at who he is with their kill on N2 given there was exactly one person in the game that he could get a reliable read on due to the Godmother. I can see scum being willing to guess kill on N3, but not N2.

[Kilgamayan]

whenever want

This should be "whenever (I) want". Curse you, brackets.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Scum!PX proves some interesting things. Notably, it is impossible for Kilga to be buddies with me or Shadoweh, guaranteeing that a back-to-back Shadoweh / HW lynch would have won him the game. Lining up mislynches seems very possible and he made no attempt to find the non-Shadoweh/HW scum while he was still pushing that. Kilga dropping it when nobody bought it (to the extent that he's basically ignoring Shadoweh and I as targets now) makes it look seriously opportunistic.

Kilga dropping PX between D2 - D3 makes the BT case and false dichotomy appear to be a charade to distract town. Even if the PX case wasn't his "pride and joy of the game", it contained solid points  Early that day, Kilga for some reason wasn't hunting for the non-experienced scum (who was most likely PX), and when he switched to BT, there's no indication of him considering PX again. Doesn't seem natural given that he had PX as a side suspicion D2 and later made a decent case on him.

As for why Kilga's PX attacks make sense for scum!Kilga: the actual D2 PX vote doesn't mean much because after BT's switch the lynch was unlikely to pull through over Affinity anyway. A D2 PX lynch would have required Raitaki to not waffle - something I wouldn't expect Kilga to put faith in when he used newb!Raitaki as a reason to support BT scum wrt D1 votals - and then two people two switch over. If I were to guess, it was more likely an attempt to avoid ties to the Affinity wagon than a bus. D3, Kilga saying he'd vote PX over me doesn't actually matter as much as I initially thought cuz (a) PX would've switched back to BT he wasn't an idiot and (b) PX was slowly becoming a lost cause by that point.

Kilga / PX killing IHNN is explained by Kilga figuring out IHNN was a power role, which is why Kilga would press the point of scum figuring that out in the first place when there were other plausible reasons for scum killing IHNN. N2 IHNN was very likely to scan PX. Kilga / PX killing Pesco is because Kilga even said he thinks Pesco is the hardest player to bullshit, and Pesco should be the best at reading Kilga out of anyone here since the two of them have been playing for the longest. Particularly I don't think Pesco would have let the false dichotomy fly at all. I'd assume Pesco is at least decent at reading PX too since they've been buddies and PX got bussed. It's a hard-to-trace kill that removes somebody who looks town and is likely to catch scum later in the game.

I'd appreciate it if everybody supporting BT lynch could respond to my defense of him.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Also, I think BT / PX would have been more likely to go "oh shit, Shadoweh just lead a wagon on our rolecop, let's shoot her" than shoot Pesco the softclaimed Vanilla Townie just cuz. Neither of them strike me as particularly scared of Pesco and a position for Pesco's Serela vote being a bus could be made.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Regarding the Serela outing his fakeclaim strategy points, I don't think Serela was actually outing his fakeclaim strategy so much as telling everyone he considered faking VT to hide his cop status and having it come out very, very wrong. Also, while Serela isn't the best player, he's not bad enough that his buddies would be forcing him to paste his posts in the quicktopic for review, something that usually reserved for DeporeJOB-esque newbies who rolled scum on their first game. If his posts aren't being reviewed then there's no reason having a buddy around would stop him from slipping up.

[Edible]

Vote Count: SAME SAME PATCHOULI edition

Kilgamayan (2): huh what, BT
BT (1): Kilgamayan,
huh what (1): NekoNekoRex


Not voting: Shadoweh, Raitaki

You have ~27 hours remaining.  With 6 in play, it takes 4 votes to launch.

[BT]

People can be individually scummy, and scummy people can vote for other scummy people. I'm pretty sure Shadoweh tried to tell you this on Day 1. I'm also pretty sure that I thought Shadoweh's vote should have been on you and was going to go on you before I voted you (#562), so there was no post-vote reconsideration for me to do anyway. I already knew she suspected you and I had seen her bring more up against you than anyone else, and I had already considered all that when I made my change. Bringing up good points against you doesn't mean the scummy stuff she did just vanished, which was why she was still a suspect.

I'm pretty sure that, if we get to LYLO and I'm alive, I'm going to have to concretely justify whatever vote I make to have any chance that people will listen to me. Just going "Hey remember this Shadoweh case I had??? Well it still applies and imma vote Shadoweh" would get me lynched. So no, I can't just "re-utilize it whenever want."

Obviously. The way I see it, though, blankly holding onto suspicions is scummy. When you suspect people, you're constantly examining the surroundings as one of the things that'll help you eventually weed out the real scum. I'm not expecting scum to hold onto suspicions as they are and use them freely - they will get punished for it. The thing is, when you don't make connections between your reads, it allows you to lead mislynch after mislynch. Having a list of "people that did scummy things" to fall back to is what I'm talking about.

- What would qualify Omba as "exceptionally worrying for scum" if he's ostensibly a confirmed VT? The only thing he could do at that point is suspect and vote. But you'll notice that he wanted me dead ahead of everyone else and tends to be pretty stubborn...which seems like it would qualify for "exceptionally worrying" for scum Kilga, doesn't it?

Being right on scum's tail is one thing, but convincing the masses is another. I don't believe Omba was particularly threatening in that regard.

- It is exceedingly unlikely that IHNN was killed because he was a "suspected" PR. Either scum had figured him out with a large degree of certainty (which would, in fact, lend credence to my initial theory) or he was a direct threat to them as a player instead of as a cop. Remember that he couldn't use his ability N2 unless he was willing to give it up for the rest of the game; if scum don't know who the cop is but they know he would be sacrificing his ability for good if he investigated someone N2, they're not going to guess at who he is with their kill on N2 given there was exactly one person in the game that he could get a reliable read on due to the Godmother. I can see scum being willing to guess kill on N3, but not N2.

Oh. I was under the impression the ability was "can be used once on even nights, cannot be used on even nights again thereafter". :l It's still more than plausible that scum were hunting the cop, though, as he'd still have a N1 result and full clearance. Not to mention two results and a clearance if he decided to go rogue.

[Kilgamayan]

Glad to see HW isn't reading my posts either. :V I've already said the dichotomy was only a dichotomy for me. I acknowledged that I could also be considered such a person in the original post, and I pointed out once already that I acknowledged it. This is me doing so again. It was never a dichotomy for anyone else and trying to paint it as such when I admitted so up-front is really disheartening.

Kilga dropping PX between D2 - D3 makes the BT case and false dichotomy appear to be a charade to distract town. Even if the PX case wasn't his "pride and joy of the game", it contained solid points  Early that day, Kilga for some reason wasn't hunting for the non-experienced scum (who was most likely PX), and when he switched to BT, there's no indication of him considering PX again. Doesn't seem natural given that he had PX as a side suspicion D2 and later made a decent case on him.

Already addressed the D2 -> D3 PX thing. I switched to BT because I found what I had brought up against him to be stronger than what I had brought up against PX at the end of D2, since it was founded in vote analysis (which the PX case wasn't).

As for why Kilga's PX attacks make sense for scum!Kilga: the actual D2 PX vote doesn't mean much because after BT's switch the lynch was unlikely to pull through over Affinity anyway. A D2 PX lynch would have required Raitaki to not waffle - something I wouldn't expect Kilga to put faith in when he used newb!Raitaki as a reason to support BT scum wrt D1 votals - and then two people two switch over. If I were to guess, it was more likely an attempt to avoid ties to the Affinity wagon than a bus.

I was going to vote for PX before BT's switch, though; my post right before his switch said a post was incoming. And yes, it would have been hard to get the wagons to swing, which was why I was trying to get dialogue going about what I had brought up against him. >_>

The rest of this appears to be speculation that I can't really respond to. If there's something you want directly addressed, though, I'd be glad to if you highlight it.

Your defense for BT seems to ride at least a decent amount on this...

If they were buddies, they went out of their way to bicker with eachother when they could have combined their votes to lynch a townie and probably have gotten away with it.

...which had no real justification for it. Assuming you meant you when referring to the townie they could have combined their votes on, I imagine that BT's Day 2 swing away from PX onto a townie followed up by them combining to get you lynched would not have been something they could have gotten away with at all, unless you think Town Shadoweh and Town me would go at each other's throats in LYLO and not be able to convince each other that the other isn't scum. There's also no guarantee NNR wouldn't turn his head in their direction once your flip proved him wrong.

Also:

Distancing wouldn't produce enough cred after BT's D2 flip-flop on PX.

It's cred you certainly seem to be giving BT now! <_<

Cut by BT, will get to that in a moment

[Kilgamayan]

Obviously. The way I see it, though, blankly holding onto suspicions is scummy. When you suspect people, you're constantly examining the surroundings as one of the things that'll help you eventually weed out the real scum. I'm not expecting scum to hold onto suspicions as they are and use them freely - they will get punished for it. The thing is, when you don't make connections between your reads, it allows you to lead mislynch after mislynch. Having a list of "people that did scummy things" to fall back to is what I'm talking about.

...I've officially lost track of where you're going with this. What is this about a list of people that did scummy things and why does it matter in the way you are presenting this point? I already said I don't have any such thing to "fall back on" because, AGAIN, if I tried to serve any such case up in LYLO and not do anything else with it I'd be lynched. If you're saying that me bringing up scummy things Shadoweh did during a total LYLO reread with some of those scummy things overlapping things I mentioned about her in that large post is scummy, then...I don't even know what the hell.

Being right on scum's tail is one thing, but convincing the masses is another. I don't believe Omba was particularly threatening in that regard.

There were no less than two non-Omba people that suspected me at the end of D2 - you and Shadoweh had stated distaste for me. People may not have paid his case much mind on D2 because it didn't line up with their top suspects, but I'm willing to bet you're more willing to listen to a case about your top suspect than one about someone you kinda suspect but don't prefer as a lynch.

Oh. I was under the impression the ability was "can be used once on even nights, cannot be used on even nights again thereafter". :l

Source on this mod clarification, because that's not what the opening post says:

1 Rogue Cop (May target a player on odd nights to learn their alignment; may use this ability on Even nights but loses the ability thereafter)

Loses "the ability", not "the ability on even nights". Seems like the cop is gone for good after a D2 investigation to me.

It's still more than plausible that scum were hunting the cop, though, as he'd still have a N1 result and full clearance. Not to mention two results and a clearance if he decided to go rogue.

No guarantee the cop hasn't investigated, say, Affinity, nor a guarantee that the cop hadn't investigated the Godmother. Also the cop has clearance regardless, so cop guessing on N2 means forgoing killing a confirmed town they know for the chance to killing a confirmed town they don't know. What if they miss? Then Omba's still around and the cop is still lurking somewhere.

[Kilgamayan]

I'm willing to bet you're more willing to listen to a case about your top suspect than one about someone you kinda suspect but don't prefer as a lynch.

Clarification: This is the impersonal "you" and does not mean BT specifically.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Glad to see HW isn't reading my posts either. :V I've already said the dichotomy was only a dichotomy for me. I acknowledged that I could also be considered such a person in the original post, and I pointed out once already that I acknowledged it. This is me doing so again. It was never a dichotomy for anyone else and trying to paint it as such when I admitted so up-front is really disheartening.

When did you first say it wasn't a dichotomy for anybody other than you? I don't remember this coming up until today, which is why I didn't put much stock in it. Re-reading your first few dichotomy posts I don't see anything about the dichotomy being personal. If it wasn't stated in the initial post or shortly afterwards, then from town's perspective you were pushing it on them at that time. Plus you still weren't looking into PX, BT, etc until after a dialogue with Shadoweh from what I can tell.

Already addressed the D2 -> D3 PX thing. I switched to BT because I found what I had brought up against him to be stronger than what I had brought up against PX at the end of D2, since it was founded in vote analysis (which the PX case wasn't).

At the time, though, I had posted a PX vote which actually contained voted analysis (him parking on Rex then not bothering to post a stance when it mattered most) which could have been considered. There were more points against PX aside from the end-of-D2 case and you didn't really put much thought toward them in your posts.

I was going to vote for PX before BT's switch, though; my post right before his switch said a post was incoming. And yes, it would have been hard to get the wagons to swing, which was why I was trying to get dialogue going about what I had brought up against him. >_>

Can't really judge whether this is a solid defense or not since there was a 14 minute gap between his post and yours, and since I don't own your phone I can't evaluate whether you would have been able to to alter it to change who you were voting or etc in time or not. I also don't know how much of your post you had written up when you made the "incoming" post, so this becomes a take-your-word-for-it thing which is kind of questionable when this is Mafia and I think you're scum.

I do think it's worth pointing out that similiarly, BT had unvoted PX and telegraphed a potential switch before you made your "incoming" post.

Alternately since you have to be the Godfather it's still possible you wanted to bus PX if you thought you knew who the tracker was. This isn't very solid though.

...which had no real justification for it. Assuming you meant you when referring to the townie they could have combined their votes on, I imagine that BT's Day 2 swing away from PX onto a townie followed up by them combining to get you lynched would not have been something they could have gotten away with at all, unless you think Town Shadoweh and Town me would go at each other's throats in LYLO and not be able to convince each other that the other isn't scum. There's also no guarantee NNR wouldn't turn his head in their direction once your flip proved him wrong.

It's not impossible for them to squeeze out of depending on how they handle it. BT waits until 6p LYLO then busses PX with a strong case and prays for the best, BT and PX shoot Rex N3 and hope to convince Omba to go for you again, etc. It would have looked bleak, but it would have looked bleak for pretty much any possible PX/??? scumteam D3 and I think they would've expected to have an easier time getting away with a mislynch.

It's cred you certainly seem to be giving BT now! <_<

Because I don't think scum!BT would have expected to receive this cred. This is more a player evaluation thing so whatevs.

[Kilgamayan]

When did you first say it wasn't a dichotomy for anybody other than you? I don't remember this coming up until today, which is why I didn't put much stock in it. Re-reading your first few dichotomy posts I don't see anything about the dichotomy being personal. If it wasn't stated in the initial post or shortly afterwards, then from town's perspective you were pushing it on them at that time. Plus you still weren't looking into PX, BT, etc until after a dialogue with Shadoweh from what I can tell.

The very first disclaimer acknowledged that it was not actually a dichotomy:

Disclaimer 1: I am fully aware that people may believe the following is applicable to myself as well.

I brought up immediately that the entire thing was applicable to me (or potentially, at least, since I wasn't sure what people would think of me and that sort of rolehunting). If you find it an issue that I didn't repeatedly point this out throughout that post then I don't know what to tell you.

At the time, though, I had posted a PX vote which actually contained voted analysis (him parking on Rex then not bothering to post a stance when it mattered most) which could have been considered. There were more points against PX aside from the end-of-D2 case and you didn't really put much thought toward them in your posts.

I didn't have the time. I'm also pretty sure I said this already. Phone rereading is not an easy or speedy thing.

Can't really judge whether this is a solid defense or not since there was a 14 minute gap between his post and yours, and since I don't own your phone I can't evaluate whether you would have been able to to alter it to change who you were voting or etc in time or not. I also don't know how much of your post you had written up when you made the "incoming" post, so this becomes a take-your-word-for-it thing which is kind of questionable when this is Mafia and I think you're scum.

It's an Android 2 Global using 3G, for what that's worth. There's a built-in keyboard, but no mouse, and it's no end of obnoxious trying to highlight large swaths of text for copying or deleting.

I do think it's worth pointing out that similiarly, BT had unvoted PX and telegraphed a potential switch before you made your "incoming" post.

I realize he had unvoted, but the unvote didn't seem to come with any reasoning why it was there, so it seemed like a tenuous unvote at best. Not a difficult thing to persuade back.

Alternately since you have to be the Godfather it's still possible you wanted to bus PX if you thought you knew who the tracker was. This isn't very solid though.

I'm not sure what being the GF has to do with that anyway, since the Tracker would see the GF on the move.

It's not impossible for them to squeeze out of depending on how they handle it. BT waits until 6p LYLO then busses PX with a strong case and prays for the best, BT and PX shoot Rex N3 and hope to convince Omba to go for you again, etc. It would have looked bleak, but it would have looked bleak for pretty much any possible PX/??? scumteam D3 and I think they would've expected to have an easier time getting away with a mislynch.

Why?

Because I don't think scum!BT would have expected to receive this cred. This is more a player evaluation thing so whatevs.

Oh. Well. Not really something I can address there. :|

[NekoNekoRex]

Excerpt quotes from Kilga

There's also no guarantee NNR wouldn't turn his head in their direction once your flip proved him wrong.

Eh? What's this have to do with me now? I read Shadoweh as town, and BT as Leaning Town. Only scum left are between HW/Kilga

No guarantee the cop hasn't investigated, say, Affinity, nor a guarantee that the cop hadn't investigated the Godmother. Also the cop has clearance regardless, so cop guessing on N2 means forgoing killing a confirmed town they know for the chance to killing a confirmed town they don't know. What if they miss? Then Omba's still around and the cop is still lurking somewhere.

Cop can't town clear in a game with a confirmed Godmother, Kilga.

Kilga defenses  are not convincing me in the slightest.

Also what the fuq is a dichotomy?