Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition

[Zil]

You probably just have to estimate how far she'll go. I think it's more likely that she'll move toward the center rather than further toward the side she's already on. Think of it like Sinkable Vortex. :V

[Chuckolator]

Think of it like Sinkable Vortex. :V

I seem to recall my strategy being "pray she moves with you" <_<

That should be enough help, I'll try it out and see if it's any easier. In any case, it seems to be shaping up to be the next VoWG, though I hope it doesn't take me 60 almost-perfect runs to capture it as well like VoWG did. <_<

[RNG]

Well, almost cleared MoF Lunatic, but I keep slipping up in dumb places. For example, Terukuni Throughout the World. Why do I have so much trouble with that and can anyone help?

[Tsym]

Well, almost cleared MoF Lunatic, but I keep slipping up in dumb places. For example, Terukuni Throughout the World. Why do I have so much trouble with that and can anyone help?

It's a personal opinion, but if you're going for a 1cc, I'd suggest bombing that one a while into a card. It's relatively simple to do when you go to practice it, but the problem with that card is that the way you move during it gives you essentially no reaction time to bomb if you make a mistake, unless you have very quick reflexes or have it down to a science. Even still, nerves can very easily affect you since you're pretty far into your run and you just came out of PWG.

But if you want to try to capture it anyway, you want to get into a rhythm where you will move up through one of the pellet rings almost immediately before dashing through the arrows. I'd also suggest getting used to dashing through the arrows in a downwards diagonal motion. That way you're moving in the same direction as the arrows and you get a bit more reaction time to pull off any desperate maneuvers. As the card gets faster, you want to follow the same rule, but you'll have to dodge through multiple pellet rings before doing the dash through the arrows again.

[Zengeku]

Uhh... does anyone know of a consistent way to not get raped by Orin's final spell without shooting? I'm thinking of a no-miss pacifist of her but her final just gives me pain.

[RNG]

More of a general help question. What's the best order to pick up UFOs in? I remember seeing an optimized order somewhere back and I kind of need the extra lives.

[Cor]

More of a general help question. What's the best order to pick up UFOs in? I remember seeing an optimized order somewhere back and I kind of need the extra lives.

Technically, the best order to collect tokens in is the one that gives you the most resources. Mostly reds on stages 1-4 and greens on 5 and 6. Asking for an optimized route for a specific shot isn't really 'general' any more, and pretty much requires studying a replay.

But what do I know? I'm  talking out of my ass here, since I don't actually know jack about this game.

[Zil]

You don't want to confine yourself to a specific order, since messing up once can screw up your whole plan. If you really want to know what you're doing, learn which tokens appear where so you can change your path as needed mid-run. You want to be flexible, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And as Coreven said, go for reds early and greens later (in general), and convert the blue tokens to rainbow ones when possible.

If you're good enough to go through the game while adhering to the "optimized order" the whole time then you probably do not, in fact, strictly need to do so.

[Karisa]

Personally, I just keep summoning red UFOs throughout the game, except in stage 6 where it's easier to summon green UFOs, and the second half of stage 4 where it's easier to go with whatever you can conveniently summon for the screen clears (including a blue UFO from the solid blue tokens right after Nue). It's more of memorizing the locations of the solid tokens, as well as learning when not to summon a UFO because you're close enough to a midboss/boss that there aren't enough items to fill it.

Oh, and remember that you can actually collect enough parts to reach 9 lives/bombs (applies to both UFO and TD), even though the game only displays 8.

[Zengeku]

'Get all the red ones you can and if you fuck up then deal with the less resources' has always been my strategy. Green ones for Stage 6.

Sometimes it's probably better to spawn a rainbow UFO if you can't get the kind of UFO you want since filing up a rainbow UFO will release a color switching UFO upon being filled up as well as another one when you shoot it.

But don't take my words for sound strategy. I don't think about these sorta things, i just pick up whatever sounds like a good idea at the time and mess up several UFO chains during a run.

[Oh]

Not spellcard related but could somebody tell me when to use Trance in Ten Desires for maxium extends?
On Lunatic, and no bombing for spirits, because I am trying to no bomb.

[Zil]

If you're trying to no-bomb then you may end up wanting to plan trances for specific attacks (for survival), so that might be at odds with ideal spirit collecting. In any event, I'll just mention a few things I think I can remember.

- Don't collect the spirits from Yuyuko's second spell. Instead, leave them there and damage her third spell as much as you can. Trance just before the spirits vanish, and you can end the third spell before the trance wears off, so you effectively trance the spirits from the second spell as well as from the third. That should probably be your only trance in stage one. If you can trance the midboss and then get another in time to use on Yukuko, then that's even better, though I'm not sure if it's possible.

- In stage 2, whatever you do, you should probably trance the fairies just after the kunai part. That will get you 4 pieces. Then you have some options. You should be able to recharge for the fairies right before the boss, and trancing them gets you 4 life parts (It looks like a lot, but it's mostly bombs there). Whether or not you can charge another trance for one of Kyouko's spells, I don't know.
Alternatively, If you can manage to trance the spirits from the midboss, those will also give you 4. Then kill the pre-boss fairies normally and you should be set to trance one of Kyouko's spells, which will of course help avoid dying, but will also get you a few more pieces, unless you trance the last spell, which drops nothing.
I think option 2 seems like the better one, but I'm not sure if you can recover your trance for the midboss. If you can really shotgun her during the spell, then avoid the spirits she drops until your trance is ready, I think it can be done.

- In stage 3, you'll probably want to trance Kogasa's spell. Capture the nonspell, damage the spell as much as you can, and when she moves away from you, trance and go after her. If you time it right,  you can also trance the bonus fairies that appear after she explodes. Then just trance whichever of Yoshika's spells gives you the most trouble.
Since you (probably) won't be trancing those first four fairies that have some life pieces before Kogasa, it might be hard to collect the spirits manually. I found a trick there where you can loop over the top of the screen to get the spirits easily, if you don't have an easier way to do it.

- In stage 4, most of the early fairies only drop bomb pieces. The last two before the midboss will drop life pieces though, so make sure to kill them before Seiga appears, or the fairies will just vanish. You can then trance those life pieces and end Seiga's nonspell before the trance wears off. Then you can stall the spell to skip some of the wisps that appear right after. You'll still have more than enough time to refill your trance. If you can refill it fast enough, you might be able to trance the spirits Seiga dropped if you avoid picking them up just after killing her. After that, you'll probably want to just trance for survival for the rest of the stage, so do what seems best there.

- For stage 5, you probably want to trance the first set of six big fairies after the ones that fly in from the right (which you can use to easily refill your trance). What you do after that will depend on how well you can collect spirits from the laser shooting orbs. You might trance the next group of six fairies, or you might trance the midboss spell. (They probably yield the same number of life pieces anyway.) The things after the midboss should give you more than enough to recharge for the big spam before the boss.

- In stage 6, be sure to kill the wisps at the end of the stage before killing the lead fairies. The first ones only drop bomb pieces, so you can just clear them away, but you'll want the last few.


I feel like this is the fifth time I've written some big thing about TD. It's fun for some reason, even if I don't really know what I'm talking about. Don't take it as the end-all be-all or anything. Hopefully someone else here knows some other tricks. Further, you can probably find a decent no-bomb run on Youtube or gensokyo.org, if you look.

[Karisa]

If you can trance the midboss and then get another in time to use on Yukuko, then that's even better, though I'm not sure if it's possible.

I can trance the midboss, Yuyuko's first card, and the second half of Yuyuko's third card on Hard. It requires rather risky playing though, and I'm not sure how feasible it is to stay as close during Yuyuko's nonspells on Lunatic.

Then kill the pre-boss fairies normally and you should be set to trance one of Kyouko's spells, which will of course help avoid dying, but will also get you a few more pieces, unless you trance the last spell, which drops nothing.

If you trance right at the start of the Kyouko's last spell (shoot for a while without collecting the spirits, then trance), it should be enough to last through pretty much the entire spell. I don't think it's possible to recharge your trance quickly enough without bombing to trance the four fairies near the start of stage 3, though.

Note that my experience is from attempting a maximum-life-parts run (is that 20 extend possible or not?), not a no-bomb run, so I may have the trance timings off since I was allowing bombing to recharge the trance.

Edit:
Does anyone have a consistent strategy for capturing Descent of Izuna Gongen? Sometimes it lines up where I can no-focus it easily and even wait out a border during it, and other times I end up cornered repeatedly and die even without trying to unfocus for an extra border.

[BT]

Can you manipulate Remilia's movements during Scarlet Meister?

[ふねん1]

Can you manipulate Remilia's movements during Scarlet Meister?

IIRC you can't control any boss' movements anywhere in EoSD.

[I have no name]

Stage 4 Nueball in UFO lunatic.
The last wave always kills me/walls me.

[Nindella]

Stage 4 Nueball in UFO lunatic.
The last wave always kills me/walls me.

Move to the right during it  :derp:

[I have no name]

Move to the right during it  :derp:

I've been doing that, hasn't been helping.

[Chuckolator]

Are you trying to stay under the point where the circling fairies are moving straight up, for lack of a better description?  That's probably the best place to kill them.

[Cor]

Begin movement from a few centimeters to the right of Nue when she fires the fourth wave. It's the easiest wave to dodge for me.

[BT]

You will actually learn to dodge it naturally after a while. I screw up "the route" often enough and I can't recall the last time I died to any Nueball.

[Tsym]

Stage 4 Nueball in UFO lunatic.
The last wave always kills me/walls me.

Have some pictures:

Where you want to start out.


Where you want to go. Be careful of the line of bullets that are heading straight for my hitbox on a like 45 degree angle to the left. You want to move diagonally upwards to the right to avoid that.


The final bit. See the line of bullets to the left? You want to move far enough to the right to pass right by that.

And just remember that the pattern is static based on Nue's position, which changes on every playthrough, so sometimes you'll have to go up the right wall to avoid the attack. You should always look for the same opening to go through every time though. Just practice it a few times until you see it. The pattern should basically become trivial afterwards.

[ふねん1]

As far as I know it's actually not based on Nue's position, just randomly oriented, and very slightly at that. I'm always in the same spot for the first wave of both Nueballs (I'm totally using that name from now on :V), for instance, but it's never exactly the same each time. But given how little the orientation does change between playthroughs, it's still plays a lot like a static attack.

[Kaze_Senshi]

Can someone help this hopeless soul to fullfill this impossible request or give some tips about it? 

[RNG]

Ah, Dragon's Necklace. Kaguya fires familiars at a 30 to 45-degree angle from your position, first left then right. These familiars fire sets of lasers that start out moving in the opposite direction of the familiar, and then eventually  fire in the same direction , which means they bunch up quite a bit. At the same time the laser is fired, a bullet appears, which accelerates downward in a randomish direction. What you want to do at all costs is not end up getting near the bunched lasers because you're pretty fucked. Don't make much lateral movement, which means don't keep moving away from the lasers when a wave starts.

Staying at the top is nice in a way because the bullet's aren't too fast at mid-screen, but you're also close to where the lasers spawn in that case and that is not very fun. So what you do is as soon as a new wave starts moving towards you, dodge aggressively through the gap between the lasers as soon as it's visible. The random bullets you just have to deal with. As Tsym said, about 1/4 of the way up is probably best.

Too bad I deleted my old IN replay folder because that's a fun card and I'd love to do a demo run of it. Overall, though, don't worry. When I played IN normal I failed that card 65 consecutive times before finally getting it. It is quite annoying.

OK, Here's a few of my biggest issues with UFO right now.

- Dipper Creeping Close. The non-spell and spell right before it are hard but mostly fair. This, though, makes no sense to me. Should I try to make sure Murasa materializes at the corners and keep running laps? When I try to do that it breaks down at about 20 seconds left.

- The red spam right before Shou. Is there anything one can do as Reimu A but tap up and down frantically and hope that an add-blended bullet isn't heading your way? It lasts too long for a UFO to be of much help. If any part of it is aimed and if staying to one side helps, that'd be great to know.

- While I'm not there in Lunatic, (don't worry, I'm not that fast) I'd like to know how to handle Byakuren's second non. It just mercilessly walls me when I try it on Hard. Streaming the lasers from inside the add-blended bullets doesn't seem to be viable on Hard and above.
 

[Tsym]

Can someone help this hopeless soul to fullfill this impossible request or give some tips about it? 

It's actually a fairly tough card, and I didn't capture it for the first time until after I cleared Lunatic (though I never really tried either, but whatever). First off, try not to focus on the lasers. They aren't your biggest threat. Instead, focus on the bullets instead, and predict where they will be the least dense, then once you've found that area, move there and dodge the lasers there. Rinse and repeat. Try to stay off the bottom of the screen. Maybe stay 1/4 of the way up. That way, you won't have curtains of bullets falling on you, and you can adjust better since you'll have more room to maneuver.

[ふねん1]

OK, Here's a few of my biggest issues with UFO right now.

- Dipper Creeping Close. The non-spell and spell right before it are hard but mostly fair. This, though, makes no sense to me. Should I try to make sure Murasa materializes at the corners and keep running laps? When I try to do that it breaks down at about 20 seconds left.

- The red spam right before Shou. Is there anything one can do as Reimu A but tap up and down frantically and hope that an add-blended bullet isn't heading your way? It lasts too long for a UFO to be of much help. If any part of it is aimed and if staying to one side helps, that'd be great to know.

- While I'm not there in Lunatic, (don't worry, I'm not that fast) I'd like to know how to handle Byakuren's second non. It just mercilessly walls me when I try it on Hard. Streaming the lasers from inside the add-blended bullets doesn't seem to be viable on Hard and above.

Yes. This "four corners" strategy is actually most viable on Lunatic because of how frequently Murasa teleports. You should be able to maintain the motions for the entirety of the attack once she gets to top speed.

If you're not summoning a UFO or bombing, sticking to a corner is really the best ReimuA can do for the second half, when the fairies come from both sides at once. It's a pretty stupid section for any forward-focus shot type. Note that you don't want to be too close to the side, as you want to be able to react to any bullets that come from offscreen.

I do that nonspell like this to avoid dealing with the lasers altogether. It's a stupid way to do it, but the lasers' random orientations when you stream it normally are even stupider if you ask me. My advice for tackling this attack in a full run? Don't bother. Period. Use a bomb instead. You'll have plenty of them from the stage portion beforehand, so don't worry about not having any.

[Chuckolator]

If you're not summoning a UFO or bombing, sticking to a corner is really the best ReimuA can do for the second half, when the fairies come from both sides at once. It's a pretty stupid section for any forward-focus shot type. Note that you don't want to be too close to the side, as you want to be able to react to any bullets that come from offscreen.

For what it's worth, I tried this during some fun runs and the fairies coming in from the left came so low they actually ran into me. <_<

[Tsym]

- Dipper Creeping Close. The non-spell and spell right before it are hard but mostly fair. This, though, makes no sense to me. Should I try to make sure Murasa materializes at the corners and keep running laps? When I try to do that it breaks down at about 20 seconds left.

"Running to the four corners" sounds simple enough, but it's a bit trickier in practice. There's a specific rhythm that you want to do, and as Reimu and Sanae, you won't completely make it to a corner before you have to start moving to the next one. Ideally Murasa should be teleporting in within 1/4 or so screen length around the corner during the first part of the card. When it gets faster, that's when you should be able to just move in a straight line and go through the bullets. It's hard to explain what the proper "rhythm" is to the portion before the 20 second mark, but practice makes perfect. You'll get it after a few attempts at it. And don't be frustrated if you fail the card on your next run through. I know that I thought I "got it" a few times while I was going for my UFO 1cc, but the rhythm is hard to get down perfectly until you get quite a few attempts at it. It certainly doesn't help that the way you approach the card is different on lower difficulties.

[Karisa]

Are there any tricks for Reisen's Last Spell, or is it just dodging? I'm more consistent at Tewi's first midboss phase, which I thought was supposed to be the hardest part of the stage, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something.