So You Want To Be The Townest Mafia (Thread 1)

[I have no name]

Assuming 359 your added 'firetruck's total 401.

Why does third party have to make so much sense ;_;

and no one answered my question about how many scum there usually are in a 15 player game.

[Dr Rawr]

So nobody wants to give me the box because i want the box? Yea thats cool....

Also no serela giving off reasons as to why im scum and calling me null for no reason? I think if you are able to get a read off affinity one post you can get a non-null read on myself. Do you think im town or scum?

Also cut by no im not 3rd party. Is it wrong for me to want nice things?

Cut again by such abusive language.

[Mr_Bob]

Affinity said he'd keep the box; it seems unlikely that will change.

It's also premature to call Serela hypocritical for having box reactions, there wasn't too much to go off of.  Willing to see if Serela shapes up.
Rawr's being desirous of box is wine.
Getting good gut reads from K4, wary townie. Dorian is also agreeable.
Everyelse is either way.
Not opposed to meshing K4's and ActionDan's idea to organize town for a "mock 48 hr end D1".
@Affinity: Would you be willing to have a vote on to whom the box goes as it blows (does whatever it does)?

[capt. h]

I think Rawr would keep the box if we gave it to him.

Anyway, I think scum are more likely to blab about box shenanigans than actual reads on people, so I'm looking there.

Recall I co-modded Chaore's game, and there was a lot of claiming early on. The townies were confused. So what did the scum do? They stood above the chaos and the mess, making a point of NOT getting involved in the shenanigans. All the speculators were town, and none of the scum speculated. BECAUSE THEY KNOW SPECULATION IS BAD.

Basically, I think that probably everyone who wrote 2 paragraphs of speculation about the box and what to do with it so far is probably town, unless something they said explicitly reeks of trying to get a townie killed with it. Kind of like how Huh What got Rawr to suicide on bomb PX, was it 2 games ago?

Stating outright that I don't think selecting the box owner by vote is a good idea. Townies tend to vote for loud people on day 1. Scum tend to be quiet. I think a vig shot is more likely to hit scum than a town majority, especially since scum won't need nearly as many votes for a plurality as a majority if they needed to take the box off their buddy.

I don't see much scum intent anywhere yet. I suspect scum haven't posted much, because this is the speculation phase. Scum can lay low for town cred simply by virtue of not getting involved.

##Unvote
Affinity has a case, I just don't think it's good. I think he's saying that having the lowest possible chance of the bomb going to scum and giving the bomb to the most obvious townie is contradictory, because the best chance of it not lying in scum hands is with him, sinc eotherwise it already lies with scum anyway.

Exceded word limit. Need to wait for another post.

[capt. h]

AW COME ON. SOMEONE JUST TWITTER SOMETHING SO I CAN FINISH THE POST.

Please?

[capt. h]

F5 DOES NOTHING.

[Conqueror]

Stupid browser crashing. Knock yourself out.

[capt. h]

THANK YOU!

Dan is sheeping me while buddying up to me at the same time, while proposing some kind of voting system that I think helps scum more than town. 3-4 wagons with 3-4 votes is the worst system I can think of for this, because it's so incredibly easy for scum to sway the wagons when they're that small.

##Vote: Dan

There are people who have not spoken during the speculation phase. I suspect there is scum among them, simply because that is where scum tend to hide. The primary reason I haven't voted there is because I would like to hear from them first. Basically, there's a very special kind of lurker that posts just enough to avoid prods (or avoid the most prods, at least) with just enough content to avoid being the day 1 lynch while never dirtying their hands with town affairs. That is the type of player I would like to lynch today, over loud-mouths that are town simply by virtue of not running away until the heat dies down when they have 5 votes on them.

Anyway, I'll see what Chaore and Bob have written when tomorrow comes.

ANYWHO MY BED IS CALLING ME. SWEET MERCIFUL SLEEP YAHOO!

[Affinity]

Serela should take a chill pill or something and relax.  What I pointed out on him was a small contradiction regarding his stance on the box issue which I saw as a scummy fumble.  In his response to Omba's hot potato suggestion, he discarded it due to saying that the chances as to scum receiving the box should be minimized.  But by the above reasoning, since I know myself alone to be town (if I am a townie), I should not pass the box to anyone.  However, he has also advocated passing the box to the most pro-town player decided by majority and objected against me keeping the box, e.g

We want it on town, is Affinity's confirmation post so ~*~MAGICAL~*~ that he's more town then anyone here?

a.k.a implying me not to be the most town and thus not the prime candidate for keeping the box.  Using the above half of the contradiction to implicate Dan seemed to me as suspect and bad.

His reaction to it (e.g voting me due to 'bad logic' and lumping me and Dan together) is less than satisfactory, however, and reeks of OMGUS.  The LAL thing he has on Dan (I thought the above quote was the main point of his case) also seems rather myopic, since votes and the reasoning behind them can be easily changed with the posts I make.  These don't amount to much, but I feel that Serela is the scummiest person thus far before the lurkers become distinct, or something happens etc.  Thing that goes against this judgement is the noise he's making, however.

NoName is himself in this game in that he does not explain the ordering of his reads, and that some of his cases, such as that on Dan and Serela, seem especially haphazard.  Criticizing me for not giving half-decent opinions on people is suspect when he did not even comment on my case on Serela, but I don't see scummy intent on these acts.  Dan is Dan for going by town reads rather than scum reads, and it's too early to see where he is going with them.  In short, I'm not seeing much scum intent anywhere, except maybe Mr.Bob's active-lurker like post (to which I'm not sure how to answer).

[Conqueror]

It shouldn't  really matter who the designated passer is if we're going to pass the box to the "scummiest" person. We can probably just use normal votes for this.

Conqueror: Is your vote on me a RV, or related to the box stuff you talked about before your vote?

It was mostly for talking a lot about the box without actually saying anything about it. More recently, your I have no name vote smells like poking at semantics/playing style. What's scummy about IHNN directing a question at only BT (I mean, I could think of several reasons, but your vote is...)?

and no one answered my question about how many scum there usually are in a 15 player game.

3 or 4, depending. Also, you should put down a vote on the player you think is scummiest.

rawr, p. sure someone else has asked this already, but opinions on non-box stuff?

[Conqueror]

@Affinity: Serela's changes of mind read more like the product of overthinking the situation to the point of incoherency; why do you think that's scummy?

[I have no name]

Here is Bob Scummiest people... After that.

I think that Mr. Bob is the scummiest person here right now

REASONING:
He has 2 posts total in this game, the first on word count rules (not scummy in itself) and the other, just a little bit ago.

Affinity said he'd keep the box; it seems unlikely that will change.

Re-iteration of what has already been said.

It's also premature to call Serela hypocritical for having box reactions, there wasn't too much to go off of.  Willing to see if Serela shapes up.

I was trying to get discussion off of the box.  We'll see what happens on Monday, but until then top priority is finding the scum.

Rawr's being desirous of box is wine.

Getting good gut reads from K4, wary townie. Dorian is also agreeable.

I came to these conclusions as well.

Everyelse is either way.

So you have exonerated 2/14 other players.  You have no opinions on anyone else?

Not opposed to meshing K4's and ActionDan's idea to organize town for a "mock 48 hr end D1".

It's not a bad idea in theory.  In practice though it requires minimum Affinity and possibly one other player to go along with it, and it also requires Affinity/the thrower to be online near the deadline.

@Affinity: Would you be willing to have a vote on to whom the box goes as it blows (does whatever it does)?

I don't know what the usefulness of this is.

[Mr_Bob]

@Affinity: Just wondering if you'll treat the box as a "lynch" at the 48 hour mark depending on the votes at the time (meaning others have at least some input on the decision), or if you'd just prefer to use it as you see fit.

Re-reading.

[Conqueror]

@IHNN:...I don't see that post anywhere else, so I'll assume it's yours. It's not been 12 hours since day start, so I hope your "only 2 posts" point isn't serious. But in your post you say that you came to the same conclusions as Bob. Why do you think he's the scummiest?

[Shadoweh]

Take The Box, Give Me The Fourth Votecount

Affinity (1): Serela
Dormio (0):
Kitten4u (1): Chaore
Dr. Rawr (1): I have no name
capt.h (1) : Action Dan
Chaore: (0)
Omba (2): Conqueror, Kitten4u
I have no name (2): BT, Omba
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
Serela (2): Dr. Rawr, Affinity

Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G

Holding the Box: Affinity

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 86 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown

Box Timer: 38:03:54
Box Timer Countdown

[I have no name]

@IHNN:...I don't see that post anywhere else, so I'll assume it's yours. It's not been 12 hours since day start, so I hope your "only 2 posts" point isn't serious. But in your post you say that you came to the same conclusions as Bob. Why do you think he's the scummiest?

The broken quote is Mr. Bob's, the quote at the start is something I said, put through Translation Party to combat the terror of Google Translate.
The conclusions I came to that matched Bob's seemed obvious to me-K4u, despite also having few posts, at least showed effort.  Dorian, less so, but I didn't see anything scummy there.  rawr isn't worth spending the time worrying about alignment until closer to the box deadline.
"only 2 posts" isn't the whole problem, it's that neither of the posts really added anything.

and right after I posted he treats the box like a second lynch, which I definitely dislike because I don't like making an assumption such as "the box is a bomb" and then basing my entire ED1 strategy around it.

##Vote: Mr. Bob
Forgot to do this in my last post.

[Conqueror]

and right after I posted he treats the box like a second lynch, which I definitely dislike because I don't like making an assumption such as "the box is a bomb" and then basing my entire ED1 strategy around it.

Uh I'm pretty sure the majority of the players have been doing this. -.- Did you not read the oodles of blither and blather about it?

Out of curiosity, if you felt those observations were obvious, is there anything else about the players in the game that catches your mind?

[I have no name]

@Conq
I know most other players have been doing it, and I don't necessarily like it. Like LLD said, the box gives nothing but nulltells.

In terms of other 'obvious' things...rawr doesn't seem pro-town, although this is based mostly on lack of gameplay content.
LLD seems town.  Sound logic, low activity but the content is there.
Affinity and Serela lean towards scum, with Serela the scummier of the 2, though that may be either
 A: PX influence for Serela (because PX always seems scummy)
 B: Lack of non-box content...other than saying "play Mafia, not box"
 C: Affinity's playstyle seemed scummy last game I played, and he was scum there.  This may be influencing me here.

[BT]

Left yesterday with "scum aren't here yet" vibes. (Kind of a vague answer to IHNN. Sorry!)

Reading.

Serela is continuing the trend of punishing people for bad play in #129-#130, quite blatantly so at that. Affinity's case makes no sense and he pulls opinions out of thin air and does other bad stuff etc therefore scummy?

I'm not attacking you for this because I do not believe you are scum, but I AM telling you to stop doing this because it's not hunting for scum. :/

IHNN joins the "Affinity is lazy = scummy" mindset at #143. Sigh. Stop this too. -_-

Man. I don't read any of the main occurrences as scummy. Serela and Dan both look town enough to me, Affinity is fine as well, Capth is town, IHNN is town enough, Rawr is painfully Rawr (I don't know what this means but I don't think it'll change unless he wants it to). Who does that leave us with, anyway?

##Unvote
##Vote Conq

Omba attacks IHNN for selective... question asking (??), which IHNN confirms as a "whatever, just went with him for no real reason" thing. Then Conq attacks Omba for this, which I read as lazy scumhunting. "Oh yeah, my vote is still on you because you did *this* thing, almost forgot". Doesn't help that this seems like your only real opinion up to now.

[Mr_Bob]

@LLD: Can you clarify your case on Dan?

@NoName: Can you substantiate why Affinity seems scummy?

@Capt: Just make sure your cases have more than Lynching Lurkers

@Dormio: Clarifying in your #147 (Serela's 3rd vote) that Dan's box vote was to kill Affinity; not an issue: making sure you interpreted right, because 2(?) people misparsed.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

You're right! I did misinterpret what Dan meant by his box vote.

Well, that just further reinforces my current belief that Serela is just weird and that Dan should die.
Rather than Dan giving a single town read and nothing else, he's just given us a single scum read with no reasoning and what appears to be no intention to follow up so far.
He expands on his town reads but fails to give any reasoning so as to why Affinity should die. I also find his inability to place a proper vote weird.
Anyway, I'm going back to looking at platypii.

[Chaore]

Still stand I find most of this box speculation pointless and just ripe for smokescreening. I'm fine with whatever Affinity wants to do with the box as such.

Not entirely liking BT at the moment. He comes back from reactionary play to dissuade us from saying anything bad about Affinity. I normally don't blame him for stuff like this, but it takes up most of his post dissuading 'bad play punishing', only to come back to clearing everyone like 'oh jeez everyone looks fine' and then lazily deciding to vote Conq for 'lazy scumhunting', which... is mostly bad play. It feels like hes forcing out a vote rather than he actually thinks Conq is scum, and that seems like something that's pretty scummy.

##Unvote, ##Vote: BT

Not entirely liking Serela at the moment either, his Affinity 'case' is an entirely huge OMGUS and he's been acting rather pushy about the box for someone who seems to agree with me that we shouldn't be as hung up about the box as we currently are.

I want to punch Dormio but I'm pretty sure that's because he's Dormio. So I think he may be town.

Conq needs to post again. Here's something for you Conq, Still think Omba is scum? Any changes? Anyone else you don't like?

Mr. Bob needs to stop asking questions and start Answering questions please. Like who scum is.

i think i was thinking something about capt. h but he has the power to make mortal men want to devour flesh so i think that's normal

it's 5 and this took like 7 hours for some reason, also i may be around sparingly tommorow due to schoolwork, but i'll make an effort to stay around a bit longer and post more rational things

[BT]

It feels like hes forcing out a vote rather than he actually thinks Conq is scum

If it feels like it then it's probably true. It would be ideal for everyone to have strong convictions 24 hours in but that's not the case most of the time!

Most of my reads are town reads. I'm having trouble finding teh scums and Conq reads as strangely lazy.

[Omba]

It was mostly for talking a lot about the box without actually saying anything about it. More recently, your I have no name vote smells like poking at semantics/playing style. What's scummy about IHNN directing a question at only BT (I mean, I could think of several reasons, but your vote is...)?

That question amounted to nothing more than a lurker prod. It should be obvious why spreading out questions like that over multiple posts instead of asking all similar players with that trait at once is bad: It allows you to write about the exact same thing multiple times without actually repeating yourself; i.e. it's a way to look like you're doing more than you actually are.
Of course there are times when prodding just one lurker is correct - when there is just one, or when he has something specific about him that warrants closer inspection. BT was neither the only lurker nor did I have no name mention anything specific about him that stood out (and he has since admitted as much), so yeah.
Comparison: The posts about Mr. Bob he has since made. Which, although somewhat derpy, show an effort to actually do something.

Other stuff. Serela is being... Serela on speed? Pretty much unreadable for the time being, don't want him lynched D1 as it stands.

@LLD: Can you clarify your case on Dan?

She's been asked to do that a few times now. Which you might have noticed if you read more carefully.
If there's something specific about her case you want explained in detail, you might want to point that out instead of asking a broad question like this that most likely will result in just another reference to what she already said.
In short, this question achieves nothing. Then why ask it?

Omba attacks IHNN for[...] (quote shortened)

Err... what? You point out yourself that you thought of my case as (??), then you attack Conq for... attacking me for it? The TWUCK?
Next post of yours: You pretty much admit your reason to vote Conq and hence your vote itself is RAINBOWS.
Yeah no, "please excuse me for putting out RAINBOW reads because all my other reads are useless but I need to vote someone" doesn't cut it.

##Unvote
##Vote BT

[Affinity]

@Conq: While I admit the contradiction itself wasn't very scummy past 'scum are likely to fumble regarding similar issues', I thought it sufficed for a D1 case.  His reactions to my case in the form of OMGUS however, isn't encouraging, and cemented my scumread on him.

@Bob: I will probably factor wagons into consideration.  To echo everyone else, what do you think of the current cases against Serela, IHNM, and BT so far?

As for BT, I can certainly see the germ of truth in his accusation that Conq's sustaining of his vote on Omba feels a bit like a carryover (since Conq has been asking different questions while seemingly not using Omba's answers) and that Conq hasn't said much past box issues and Omba.  While I can see the points on him (e.g all town reads, one scumread) , there's a certain weirdness to the votes on him at the moment, since Chaore seems to agree with BT on some facet of the case in his questioning of Conq and Omba seems to be avoiding the main point of BT's case.  Would like both to elaborate on this.

[Serela]

I think he's saying that having the lowest possible chance of the bomb going to scum and giving the bomb to the most obvious townie is contradictory, because the best chance of it not lying in scum hands is with him, sinc eotherwise it already lies with scum anyway.

Exactly. The point of passing it to someone people can generally agree is somewhat town is in case Affinity is scum himself, and that other people would make the decision and he would have to adhere to it or get massive frowniefaced at.

But if people don't actually take to the idea then it won't work because lack of frowniefacing to where risk outweighs benefits of keeping the box for Town OR Scum Affinity. Like Mr.Bob said, it's not likely Affinity will change his mind on keeping the box (at the least until deadline where iunno if he's planning on throwing it or what), and that isn't going to change if everyone does not pressure him to do otherwise in good faith and good reasoning. That being said, I don't have faith in town to actually pull off this pressure, so oh well.

Rawr, you act like it's possible to actually get a good read on absolutely anyone less then 24 hours into the game. Go bother somebody else, you have no case on me. Your post where you vote me had a critical problem in that it ignored something I said that completely deconstructed your reason to vote me, and now you're just voting me because I have a null read on you. It's silly.

Affinity:Yes, it's not possible for you to be the most town player in the game if you hadn't posted yet. What is strange about that? As for you knowing yourself to be the towniest player by virtue of mod confirmation, yes, I know that. But nobody other then you does. You can declare yourself the one to keep the box as you have that power right now, the other thing in the way is other people giving you flak for it (Which I don't particularly forsee happening, so oh well)

I agree with the reasoning that the box should be used as a vig shot by whoever has it instead of as a second lynch decided by people's votes.

Running out of words, will respond to BT and other people regarding my play/my Affinity vote this game later. I also join the band of people that don't like BT.

[Omba]

K.

Even if Conq had already voted me before that point (for box reasons at a point where there wasn't much else than box stuff), the fact that I happen to have done something that could be seen as scummy, causing him to keep his vote on me for it, is something I can't see as scummy, rather than chance, given that's it ED1. I'm seeing a few people other than Conq who have not voiced more than basically one opinion about anything besides box related stuff. So that leads me to wonder why he specifically went for Conq. As the other reason for his Conq vote seems constructed to me, that makes his case as a whole appear thus: Take one of a few similar players, selected by the easiest criterion (amount of content) and create a reason for picking one of them. So, yeah. Understandably, creating a reason as opposed to actually having a reason seems scummy to me. It reeks of "I need to vote someone so I won't stand out for not voting someone".
If he actually does have a sound reason for picking Conq, he has yet to tell us. He says he appears strangely lazy to him, but somehow leaves out what the actually strange part about his laziness is. If it's just a gut read, then he should say so.

c-c-c-CUT

[Serela]

Now that I have more words, Affinity how do you feel about Dan's -actual- intention over wanting you to blow up 48 hours into d1? You've only commented on my initial interpretation of it, aka him wanting you to hold the box.

Rereading more n stuff since I have words again

[Serela]

Serela is continuing the trend of punishing people for bad play in #129-#130, quite blatantly so at that. Affinity's case makes no sense and he pulls opinions out of thin air and does other bad stuff etc therefore scummy?

Bad Case =/= Bad Play.

Having a case made of BS and dumb is scummy, especially if the person who made that case should know better. (This is not the same as having a case I wouldn't agree with, that isn't explicitly scummy)

he's been acting rather pushy about the box for someone who seems to agree with me that we shouldn't be as hung up about the box as we currently are.

It's a thing, because hey, while it's not good to get too much into playing the setup, it's also important that we correctly take advantage of the box assuming it's a bomb.

I also think it's ridiculous how many people seem to think voting someone due to their box shenanigans means I didn't actually scumhunt. Also Dormio keep in mind those silly early votes I did were like what, less then 6 hours after the game started. Of course they're silly, we were still practically in "getting out of RVS"-stage.

IHNN joins the "Affinity is lazy = scummy" mindset at #143. Sigh. Stop this too. -_-

but but but
it's truuuue

B: Lack of non-box content...other than saying "play Mafia, not box"

do you seeeeeee my voooooootes
scumhunting from box shenanigans is still scumhunting >:C

The LAL thing he has on Dan

Affinity what are you even talking about I do not EVEN ;_;

I also don't see how I lumped you and Dan together. I just said you were both the scummiest people I saw. This does together lumping not make

Honestly, Affinity just seems to be analyzing the words I say and trying to twist them into a way where he can vote me off a technicality. It's ridiculous. His main reasons for not liking me are from twisting things I say so that they sort of look as if they contradict eachother.

Affinity/Dan still imo the worst people, Affinity > Dan, iunno where I stand on BT exactly (I don't really like him, I know that much) I'd rather wait and let things develop on that end before I would want to have him lynched/bombed/whatever.

[Omba]

Affinity/Dan still imo the worst people, Affinity > Dan, iunno where I stand on BT exactly (I don't really like him, I know that much) I'd rather wait and let things develop on that end before I would want to have him lynched/bombed/whatever.

What specifically do you not like about BT? Which points of the cases on him do you agree/disagree with? Wait and see is bad because it allows you to later adjust your opinion to whatever other people think of him at that point.