Rumia = Flandre?!

[OkashiiKisei]

While I certainly don't believe they're one and the same nor related, I am rather bothered by how both Marisa and Yukari have wavy blond hair and golden eyes.

[Tiamat]

Well, if you go by the theory that Yuuka is prototype Yukari before ZUN rebooted for windows, and look at what Marisa looked like before the reboot as well, one can thus come to the proper conclusion that Yukari and Marisa look the way they did because ZUN became enamoured with a woman who looked like that and started a process of converting all his Touhou characters to that look.  However, he got over it before he got around to doing it to Reimu.

[Gpop]

I just believe the whole "ribbon in Rumia's hair concealing her 'true' power" was an idea ZUN originally planned on growing on at first, but later either decided not to and completely forgot about it later or was something he had planned for EoSD already before he thought up characters like Flan and Remi.

[haoreos2]

Well, if you go by the theory that Yuuka is prototype Yukari before ZUN rebooted for windows, and look at what Marisa looked like before the reboot as well, one can thus come to the proper conclusion that Yukari and Marisa look the way they did because ZUN became enamoured with a woman who looked like that and started a process of converting all his Touhou characters to that look.  However, he got over it before he got around to doing it to Reimu.

ಠ_ಠ

I just believe the whole "ribbon in Rumia's hair concealing her 'true' power" was an idea ZUN originally planned on growing on at first, but later either decided not to and completely forgot about it later or was something he had planned for EoSD already before he thought up characters like Flan and Remi.

Was there anything that actually drew attention to it? I assumed it was just a spin on the EX-Rumia thing.
In any case, I doubt ZUN would've actually planned on using the idea in following games, especially considering she was a throwaway stage 1 boss with no plot relevance.
I could imagine him throwing it in as something for the fandom to go wild with, though.

[Gpop]

Was there anything that actually drew attention to it? I assumed it was just a spin on the EX-Rumia thing.
In any case, I doubt ZUN would've actually planned on using the idea in following games, especially considering she was a throwaway stage 1 boss with no plot relevance.
I could imagine him throwing it in as something for the fandom to go wild with, though.

See Rika

[haoreos2]

We meet again, PC-98...
But yeah, I'm guessing you're referring to how she went from stage 1 to EX, which isn't quite what I mean. There's plenty of examples of a character going from a low level boss to a high level one (Chen, Kogasa), but the reason for the boost is treated as a handwave explaining why they're suddenly stronger, then you go on to fight them. I assume you mean some story or plot when you talk about 'growing the idea' of her ribbon being a power limiter (if you just meant "Rumia might have been planned to be the EX boss, with her ribbon being justification for fighting her in stage 1 first", then sure, might be something ZUN would do. I just find it hard to picture him making a story out of it in latter games or EU materials).

(This is assuming the whole Rika thing in the extra stage went something like "Sup I brought a bigger tank yo" "K." then they fight)

[Tengukami]

Well, if you go by the theory that Yuuka is prototype Yukari before ZUN rebooted for windows, and look at what Marisa looked like before the reboot as well, one can thus come to the proper conclusion that Yukari and Marisa look the way they did because ZUN became enamoured with a woman who looked like that and started a process of converting all his Touhou characters to that look.  However, he got over it before he got around to doing it to Reimu.

Wrong, it's clear ZUN still carries a torch for a certain short-haired athletic girl who was into photography when he was in high school. He would watch her from afar, twitchy little skinny dude with the goofy laugh that he was, and felt he could never approach her, even with his awesome taste in hats. And so instead, he put this girl in many, many of his games, often giving her the spotlight, and had her interview nearly every single person living in the universe he created (all these people being aspects of himself), re-creating over and over again the kinds of questions he wished his dream girl would have asked him but never did. Touhou Project is basically the unreleased fourth chapter of 5 Centimeters Per Second.

[Darth_Sirov]

Wrong, it's clear ZUN still carries a torch for a certain short-haired athletic girl who was into photography when he was in high school. He would watch her from afar, twitchy little skinny dude with the goofy laugh that he was, and felt he could never approach her, even with his awesome taste in hats. And so instead, he put this girl in many, many of his games, often giving her the spotlight, and had her interview nearly every single person living in the universe he created (all these people being aspects of himself), re-creating over and over again the kinds of questions he wished his dream girl would have asked him but never did. Touhou Project is basically the unreleased fourth chapter of 5 Centimeters Per Second.

Hmmm... Short hair, athletic, photography. Then jokes came about after said character's introduction.

[Agent of the BSoD]

This discussion won't get anywhere, flandre IS NOT rumia, end of story.

They have completely different spellcards, themes, backgrounds, appearance, personalities, etc...

Well....
There is this.

But then again, Rumia would have had this background anyway.
One
Two
Three

[circle nine]

Right...

Next you'll be telling us Satori = Koishi and Marisa = Alice  :]

[Starxsword]

It is possible that Zun was thinking of making Rumia stronger. Since her profile does specifically say she cannot touch the ribbon. Other than that, there is really nothing else I can think of that would suggest her being a final boss of some sort. Rumia's Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil profile:

The ribbon tied to her hair is actually a charm; she can't touch it even though there have been times when she wanted to take it off.

[Tiamat]

Whether or not ZUN intended a big secret for it, there's a 90% likelihood that ribbon is a reference to a myth or a shout out to something.  Has anyone ever figured out what, though?

[haoreos2]

The only thing I could come up with was a bit roundabout:
Her symbol in Marisa's grimoire is mistletoe, which was used by british druids with amulets to protect from witchcraft. Since it weakens the effect of witchcraft, it would be reasonable for it to weaken someone who uses it if it's tied to them.
But that there's pretty tenuous, and the amulets probably wouldn't be in ribbon form. Frankly I'm unaware of any mythology/cultural/historical items that ties any great significance to ribbons, outside of things like courtship and marriage.

ZUN did a lot of shoutouts to pop culture like Jojo's bizzare adventure and Agatha Cristie's novels in that game, so if we assume it is a reference, those might be good places to start.

[Nekomata-chan]

Right...

Next you'll be telling us Satori = Koishi and Marisa = Alice  :]

We discussed this already, you know. Nue is everybody.

[Desu_Cake]

Clearly the reason she cannot remove the ribbon is that she cannot reach her head with her arms stuck out like that.

[Nekomata-chan]

Clearly the reason she cannot remove the ribbon is that she cannot reach her head with her arms stuck out like that.

Maybe Rumia doesn't have proper arms and the ones she has are faulty prosthetics!!

[iK]

She's got no arms

To hug you with


;_;

[Nekomata-chan]

She's got no arms
To hug you with

But she has teeth
To nom you with.

I vote for Rumia for the Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood!  :derp:

[haoreos2]

Maybe Rumia doesn't have proper arms and the ones she has are faulty prosthetics!!

Or maybe she can't bend them because she is secretly Flandre, and sticks her wings in there to hide them! =O

/loopthread

[Starxsword]

Rumia can probably bend her arms.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Th06SC02.jpg
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_rumia.jpg

[Mеа]

Or maybe she can't bend them because she is secretly Flandre, and sticks her wings in there to hide them! =O

/loopthread

Rumia has relatively short hair
> Flandre has long hair in a side-ponytail
> Reimu and Marisa first meet Rumia and then Flandre in the time-span of a few hours.

As you can imagine, I'm kind of skeptical about this theory, unless vampire hair grows like weed on crack.


/We've entered an endless recu(ry

[iK]

Well as long as that's the case, Nue's hair is already about the same length as Rumia's, even when disregarding the fact that Nue can make her hair as long as she damn wants.

[Nekomata-chan]

So much debating!! :getdown:

I thought this was such a throwaway theory and no-one would pay it any attention.

Colour me RAINBOW surprised.

[haoreos2]

I dunno 'bout everyone else, but personally I'm just joking around o.O

[Tengukami]

[haoreos2]

This thread is now about MS Paint manipulation, kgo.

[Tengukami]

You are my new favorite poster.

[Tonepoet]

> Rumia has relatively short hair
> Flandre has long hair in a side-ponytail
> Reimu and Marisa first meet Rumia and then Flandre in the time-span of a few hours.

As you can imagine, I'm kind of skeptical about this theory, unless vampire hair grows like weed on crack.

Actually, it has to take longer than mere hours. It's night in the first stage, daytime in the second and at least sunset in the third, if not a future day/night transition. On average, at least six hours seems to be lapsing between bosses.  Since Imperishable Night establishes the use of a normal 24 hour clock within Gensokyo's borders, I'd be surprised if the girls completed stage 4 in less than a day's time and once you reach that point, it's hard to tell because:

A. You're indoors, so you can't estimate the time lapse via lighting conditions
B. Space in the library is warped so how much further you have to traverse is indeterminate
C. You meet Sakuya immediately after that and since she can warp time, it's difficult to tell exactly how long the fight takes. It could be a very short or very long amount of time depending on exactly how her ability to manipulate time works. Granted, I'd think it to be shorter

Furthermore I think it's implied that even more time lapses between the main game and the extra stage isn't it? I don't recall if the exact amount of time is specified though but if it's not, the evidence isn't very conclusive either way. Moreover, the ribbon Rumia seems to be wearing is very suspiciously placed on the same side of her hair as Flandre's side tail. Who's to say she didn't just tie it up to conceal her identity?

Nevertheless, I remain skeptical for different reasons. Firstly if fixing the problem was as simple as putting a ribbon amulet on Flandre's hair, why would she still need to be kept under lock and key by the time you meet her? Secondly, it should be relatively well known from her exchange with Marisa that Rumia's something of a living crucifix, more or less. Vampires don't mix with crucifixes much better than they do sunlight, do they?

Just as an interesting side note though: If we were to take a chain of alter egos which lead from Rumia, to Flandre to Nue, it would seem to me that Rumia's the Anti-Saiyen, transforming into multiple forms with black colored hair being more powerful than blonde. :-P

[Starxsword]

Vampires don't mix with crucifixes much better than they do sunlight, do they?

Both Remilia and Flandre ignore crucifixes and holy water. They have zero effect on them. Flandre throws crosses at people.

From Grimoire of Marisa, Spellcard, Taboo ~ "Forbidden Games":
User: Flandre Scarlet
Notes: Nothing but crosses
Reference Level: ★
A spell card that throws a large number of crosses at you.
It looks like the reason it's crosses is that they have lots of them at their house. Are they cross hunters, or did they belong to the humans that became their food?

[Nekomata-chan]

Another thing Rumia and Flandre have in common is...
In most fanworks I've seen (and written... hehe) they are usually portrayed as moe.