Author Topic: IMP MAFIA - TOWN VICTORY  (Read 34826 times)

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #630 on: February 16, 2012, 11:42:02 PM »
HOLD IT, stop voting Affinity.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #631 on: February 16, 2012, 11:44:48 PM »
##Unvote
Why?

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #632 on: February 16, 2012, 11:46:00 PM »
Affinity's already at L-3, so yeah, keep your votes in your pants, kiddies. I think Affinity is Town and all and I'd rather lynch Shadoweh as top Scum suspect, 'kay?

Hold on while I write my case, geez. I don't want a quicklynch of Affinity!

Dorian White

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #633 on: February 16, 2012, 11:47:26 PM »
First I want to try to make up for my lack of history.
The first things that stood out for me were the OMGUS vote from PX on Dormio and Schezos, what I thought at that time was a, chainsaw defense. I wouldn't have thought too much about it but the next time I looked into the game have I found all three sitting together on the Dan wagon. So I looked into this first, since Schezo fliped town and a quick look over PX proved him as the ?I do whatever the f*** I want? posting collateral damage he always is. The rereads of Dormio and Dan brought then the points you have seen from me so far.

The next thing that stood out was BT and Bardiche. BTs case on Serela was basically a ?questionable? interpretation of one line. I would actually agree with it but is questionable in so far that I don't think Serela is the type to come up with such an rather subtle psychological approach in the first place. Bard called him out for it and things escalated. Similar things can be said about Shadoweh X Bardiche, I see both cases as Town vs Town conversations.

About Affinity can I only say that I see where he comes from, I understand the points he brought up what not means that I agree with all of them. His arguments for LAL strikes me as genuine Town frustration and his Headcrabs case is the logical consequences of it.

To Serela, you can call me naive but I think his confusion is genuine, this game is confusing.I also find his claim believable.

So to be honest I have no idea what Headcrabs was doing nor thinking, I only know that if that was a scum play then I need someone to give me a really, really good reason why I should play this game ever again. (OK this isn't relevant anymore)

Dr Rawr is quite difficult, I thought that I would understand him but that was under the impression that he believes Serelas claim, what isn't the case according to his own words. And this fact tuns his position on Serela and BT, as far as I recall it, into an contradictory mass. Here is an reread in order, again. (and that too)

So this took me the whole afternoon to write and I hope it shows you where I come from, if not feel free to ask.

Thank you for your time and attention
Dorian

P.S.: Now I need some time to consider the new revealments.
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #634 on: February 16, 2012, 11:49:50 PM »
obvscum rolefishing: Bard, do you have reason beyond what's in-thread to believe Affinity is town?

With presumably all but one scum dead -and- a living confirmed town doc, I actually think massclaiming would be a boon at this point, unless somebody better than me at role theory (read: everyone, fuck role theory) objects.

Serela

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #635 on: February 16, 2012, 11:59:44 PM »
Okay more rereading on Affinity. It feels honestly like his vote has been all over the place this whole game, and not in some kind of cool townie way. He also discourages vigging PX, and declares rawr as town late d2, which helps to not deter my desire to vote him.

By the time he starts declaring PX as scummy, PX is already pretty horrible and bussing material. When he does so, he also admits to not haven given any opinion on PX before near the end of d2.

I just sorta wish I knew how to explain the main stuff I feel is bad about him instead of little things that help cement the read such as these and what I mentioned a post or two ago.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Affinity

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #636 on: February 17, 2012, 12:01:55 AM »
Not that I ignored our 'two easy target' scum; I did say that I agreed with the PX lynch yesterday here, but not the rawr lynch here.  I've also tried my best to explain why I thought headcrabs likelier scum than PX, and question why everyone wanted PX over rawr and headcrabs, but other than this, I will not defend myself against the reasons that people will use to vote me (since they are probably all true and stuff; votes don't lie).  Not sure if I were to be that unsophisticated as scum, but whatever.

Would ask; what makes my headcrabs case weird?  It was as easy as the case on PX in my opinion.

If I were to vote, I would go for Dorian.G due to having more or less safe opinions throughout D2 (e.g town reads on me, BT, and Bardiche, happening to see everyone as town except PX on 'reread' (e.g here and here), using terms like 'Shadoweh being the most townie of null reads' and other stuff like that to justify his town reads.  Also, while his reasoning for going after Dan and PX are reasonable, they are just everyone else's reasons put through some sort of light prism; variations of the same thing, which is alright but not town-affirming.  In general, I'm not comfortable with the many town-reads he has and the obvious disconnect that he has to make with them in his decision to vote for someone today.

##Vote: Dorian.G

Other possible scumreads include Dormio, Shadoweh and Bardiche(?), but I'll get on that later.

Ninja: While Dorian.G does explain his townreads better here, he's being left somewhat stranded as to who to vote, so...

Wow at Serela for pushing me up to L-1 without listening to what I have to say.  Valid reasons, but hmph.

Serela

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #637 on: February 17, 2012, 12:03:18 AM »
also I think Bard meant to say L-1. (With Dormio's unvote it's l-2)

I like my quicklynchs on the obvscums too much ;_; Then again last time we had an obvscum waiting to be quicklynched, he sort of wasn't (Dormio in K4u-hosted vanilla mafia with the Bard/PX scumteam, I believe?) but.

Yeah, I agree with the massclaim stuff, too. Dear fuck, HW's still got his doc powers?
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #638 on: February 17, 2012, 12:25:00 AM »
Okay, so I admit to having had suspicion of Affinity in that his play was weaker on Day 1 than I am used of him, but I don't think he's the scum we're looking for. Chiefly because I do not think Scum!Affinity would consign himself to death by actually pushing for herdcrabs over PX the way he did, and secondarily because GUT.

When I initially vote her for jokevoting Schezo, her response is that she didn't jokevote, and a defence of why PX is a Town read for her. Note who she finds a Town read, and how she attacks that point rather than explain why Schezo is scum to us. When I voted her for jokevote and what BT calls contrived reasons, Shadoweh defends me, and further clears Schezo of any scum-accusations... except she never levelled any. It seems Shadoweh's more interested in clearing people as Town than pointing at them as Scum from the onset of the game.

And for someone who warns not to talk about true claims early in the game, she is adamant about clearing PX based on her own true claim. You understand, with PX's flip, this is getting messier and messier. Proposing to lynch Hero is nice, but it comes after 24 hours into the game. We all know how active lurking is scummy, and it's ironic how Shadoweh mentions scum may be lying low. Turns out PX and Rawr were doing that at least.

Again, Shadoweh defends PX, this time suggesting not to vig him. Reasons still unexplained, and this continues.  It's actually distressing Shadoweh never makes much of a case on Hero: the best she gets is that "look at a previous game, draw your conclusions". Then comes the false claim that she has explained why people are Town. I still hold that she does not explain why people are Town, only that she "has more reasons to see people as Town than Scum" and doesn't actually, you know, provide strong reasons for why they're Town.

I recall she called Dormio Town for saying No to mass-claims. That's still a bit shakey for me.

Also she clears me as Town as well. So far: Shadoweh thinks Hero is Scum. Dormio, PX, Serela, Bardiche and Schezo are Town. Oh, but Serela (despite telling herdcrabs not to vig him) isn't that Townie, but Townie enough. BT fills this category as well and huh what becomes Town as well. Only Affinity and Hero are mentioned as even a little scummy. Further D1 content isn't interesting: it's helpful, but Scum can be helpful. As I noted, Scum!Shadoweh plays for Town.

D2, though, we have Shadoweh talking about PX again, revealing his true claim and talking about her true claim power... again, despite early in D1 saying that we shouldn't talk about true claims. Also, she claimed pretending to be someone else. Scum Imps pretend to be someone else. Shadoweh claiming Scum?  :derp:

Distressingly, it takes Shadoweh a while again to consolidate a case, which ultimately... what was it someone accused me of? Oh right. An empty case that could change if the votee made one post explaining the question. So at this point it's a prod.

More Town clears, and inexplicably asking a vig on me despite saying I was Town before, and ten minutes later, it's Rawr. Without any explanation of why Rawr over Bard. More linking to PX later on, which looks like Shadoweh is really insistent on tying her to PX more solidly than Serela is to uselessness.

Again, Shadoweh proposes shooting me, but never really says WHY I am Scummy. This is consistent with her suggestion of Affinity, as she does not say why Affinity is scummy either. (She doesn't say people are scummy a lot.)

She defends PX again here, and unvotes emptily. Understandable, but we never get why Affinity was Scum in the first place much, and she doesn't exactly devote a lot of time to her case either.

Shadoweh continues to invite role speculation by talking about her role, even though no one's inclined to ask about her role. Claiming herself Town for being active after claiming Scum'd lurk out the confusion early D1 is also another point I hold against her and would lynch her for.

Her reads are all over the place as she went from the above Serela + Bard aren't scummy to Serela and Bard are very scummy, she misrepresents my actions and case and still refuses to vote.

All of this is a lot of noise where Shadoweh portrays how she has no reads. Ultimately she does vote me, but without a case other than undefined "worst logic" and playing to Town's paranoia, except there was no confused Town with paranoia. The further accusation that I am scum for defending PX contrasts with her own defence of PX. When the boat looks about to sink, Shadoweh does a 180, suddenly declaring both Scum as, well, Scum and her top targets for lynch, dropping Affinity, Serela and me for reasons unexplained.

Her reason for lynching Rawr, again, was to get info on Affinity, maintaining that one of two was Scum... but I already pointed out why lynching Rawr said nothing about Affinity's alignment. Also more Shadoweh X PX OTP, totes jealous but more LINKING.

So yeah. Shadoweh is scum.

Any questions?

##VOTE: Shadoweh

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #639 on: February 17, 2012, 12:26:17 AM »
Huh What. How vital do you consider it to receive a complete claim from all those alive?

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #640 on: February 17, 2012, 12:29:05 AM »
Other scum I'd consider is Dormio for how EASY PX made a lynch on him, but that's silly quite honestly. I consider the following Town:

BT, Serela, Dorian, Huh What (lol), Affinity. Dormio is Scum only if PX really sacrificed himself. Process of elimination leaves Shadoweh.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #641 on: February 17, 2012, 12:40:49 AM »
Also tl;dr of the above, Shadoweh's Scum McObvScum and should be lynched.

She spent all of D1 doing:
- Protecting PX as being Town.
- Clearing people for Town for unexplained reasons.
- Pushed an easy wagon on Hero without even pushing that much.

On D2, she:
- Asserted that Scum had to be on Hero's wagon.
- Asserts D1 Town reads are Scum reads suddenly without explanation.
- Asserts her claim's powers are unclear and rely on PX, contrasting her D1 stance on claims.
- Protects PX as being Town.
- Asserts Scum want Dan lynched and/or shot: if you consider it, without the Cop part... if Scum got Town to rally on high on a Town lynch, and Dan suicided, it'd leave a big Town with lingering feelings of hate for Person X. No further arguments necessary.
- Doesn't make cases on scum: she votes Affinity for not explaining one thing, and votes me for what she later retracts and seems to just be "emotional burst".

So yes, I think this is scummier than Affinity, who has been pursuing scum reads and asserted his thoughts on the game. Shadoweh, when you condense it, has a lot of noise that looks to other people telling their opinions while guarding her own.

Serela

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #642 on: February 17, 2012, 12:41:27 AM »
Shadoweh's still definitely who I'd consider the weakest link at the moment if Affinity isn't scum, if that makes you feel better, Bard!

I could possibly be swayed to voting Shadoweh today except we have time to lynch Affinity ~*~and~*~ Shadoweh and then, GASP, -STILL NOT HAVE LOST THE GAME EVEN IF THEY ARE BOTH TOWN-.

Assuming there are no more additional death roles aside from suiciding people (and we'd be notified by a pseudo-lylo tomorrow or something if there was, I'd imagine), we have threeeeeee more lynches. So forgive me for not being worried whether we lynch Shadoweh or Affinity first :c
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Serela

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #643 on: February 17, 2012, 12:42:00 AM »
honestly I'm fine with lynching either of them and will switch my vote if more people would rather lynch Shadoweh over Affinity, now that I realize the numbers situation.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #644 on: February 17, 2012, 12:46:44 AM »
@Affinity: I wasn't putting too much stock in that PX attack because it was right after Dan died, meaning there was a very real possibility people would start piling up on PX based on the influence Dormio had at the time. What little you had about the two flipped scum seemed to wait until the day was almost over.

@Bard: Currently parsing the Shadoweh case. Why do you think Dorian is town?

How useful I think a massclaim would be is dependent on what the remaining unclaimed players have in store for us in terms of information. The players I generally regard as townier (Serela and Dormio) have already claimed. Waiting a day before massclaiming wouldn't be unreasonable.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #645 on: February 17, 2012, 12:50:44 AM »
In all honesty, a part of me just wants to lynch Shadoweh for being the only person alive who would kill Schezo N1 and get it over with.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #646 on: February 17, 2012, 12:51:49 AM »
Serela, that doesn't work out. If your role did what you claimed it did, we have a paired people, so two die instead of one. We have two lynches at worst, and that'd assume the paired people being both Town, and living to the end game. That's risky.

Huh What, I think Dorian's Town because I am the Town Cop and got a Town result on him.

I got one on Affinity too.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #647 on: February 17, 2012, 12:52:27 AM »
Which night for which target?

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #648 on: February 17, 2012, 12:53:35 AM »
Note that the mod did not confirm my sanity, so I admit I am not entirely sold on this excluding both from the suspect list... but for now I am confident in trusting my Cop enough to lynch Shadoweh, who is a strong scum read, over Affinity. And over Dormio.

Affinity N1 and Dorian N2.

Serela

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #649 on: February 17, 2012, 12:53:52 AM »
Serela, that doesn't work out. If your role did what you claimed it did, we have a paired people, so two die instead of one. We have two lynches at worst, and that'd assume the paired people being both Town, and living to the end game. That's risky.

Huh What, I think Dorian's Town because I am the Town Cop and got a Town result on him.

I got one on Affinity too.
Oh. I forgot about that. Still two lynches :c Plus HW's doc power might prevent a lynch and keep us with three remaining lynches, too.

Also Oh again.

##Unvote ##Vote Affinity
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Serela

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Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #650 on: February 17, 2012, 12:54:19 AM »
derp

##Unvote ##Vote Shadoweh
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #651 on: February 17, 2012, 12:56:40 AM »
Before we quicklynch Shadoweh:
- Bard, do you have any breadcrumbs that you can cite?
- Affinity, Dorian, are either of you Miller?
- Is anybody else an investigative role that could possibly contradict Bard's?

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #652 on: February 17, 2012, 12:59:20 AM »
I don't always breadcrumb; don't need to always say I'm a power role, and until I'd seen one of my targets flip I wasn't prepared to trust my sanity just yet.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #653 on: February 17, 2012, 01:00:22 AM »
Also, this game -should- be totally winnable if Bard is telling the truth. We lynch Shadoweh, I sacrifice myself by protecting Bard tonight to ensure he gets a scan on Dormio, and if Dormio turns up town then we have two lynches for outing the Godfather.

The lovers are a problem, though. Best case scenario is that one of them is scum.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #654 on: February 17, 2012, 01:01:06 AM »
And by Godfather I mean "the Godfather or Serela".

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #655 on: February 17, 2012, 01:03:02 AM »
How exactly does your Doc power work, Huh What? Because getting yourself killed and scum hitting someone else would be rather bad.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #656 on: February 17, 2012, 01:05:04 AM »
I pick a target.
That target is safe from kills that night.
I protected you N1 and nobody N2 because I wasn't here.
I am allowed to self-protect, but may not target the same player two nights in a row.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #657 on: February 17, 2012, 01:06:31 AM »
I said I'd sacrifice myself because it'd mean that the scum would probably NK me if I protected you. Last I checked they're not very fond of confirmed town docs.

Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #658 on: February 17, 2012, 01:08:34 AM »
Also, I apologize in advance if you die because I self-protect as a bluff and scum calls me on it. :ohdear:

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: IMP MAFIA - DAY 3
« Reply #659 on: February 17, 2012, 01:20:57 AM »
Votecount4u

Affinity: Huh What
Dorian: Affinity
Shadoweh: Bardiche, NeoSerela

Not Voting: Dormio, Shadoweh, Dorian

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends in 70 hours.