IMP MAFIA - TOWN VICTORY

[capt. h]

Votecount

Affinity:
BT:
Dr. Rawr:  Shadoweh
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche:
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity, Dr. Rawr
PX: Dormio, BT, Dorian, NeoSerela (L-2)
Dormio: PX

Not Voting: Headcrabs, Bardiche

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 20.5 hours.

[PX]

SWADOWMEH: At that point, nobody was caring about Rawr. AT ALL. That said, Dormio's decision to shoot was scummy, as he never asked me to claim. Otherwise, you can sum it up to as gut, as I JUST know he's scum. Really, he wasn't using the day to figure out the best target to shoot, he just decided to shoot whoever Town wanted. And a scum dayvig would really make sense, as we have TWO confirmed DOCTORS.

That said

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: DR. RAWR

His D1 consisted on tunneling Maav, and then jumping on to the popular wagon Hero. Even he said he didn't know his position in the wagon, so that means that he wasn't actually paying attention to it and just decided to jump on the largest wagon. D2, he completely forgets about Maav and proceeds to do... nothing. Really, much of his content involves answering questions, defending himself, and other small pointless comments. A little later he votes Serela when people were looking at him. He just calls headcrabs scummy out of nowhere. Same post, he doubts Serela's claim, but after Dormio's vig, and right after, he goes to vote headcrabs and say Serela is town. Overall, he's done a lot of sheeping to other players, and spent most of the day doing nothing.

CUTS CUTS CUTS

Okay, looking at this recent Serela/Rawr thing. Suddenly, Serela is scum again. What? These recent posts look absolutely nothing like his posts earlier. Are you getting your scum partners to write posts for you? Because that's what it looks like.

And now, a claim. Remember when I true claimed and Chaore said some weird ass thing about five fuckasses? Yeah, it seems like I got a list of five players, and at night I can choose one of them to cop. Of course, at this point it seems pointless as scum will probably decide to either roleblock or kill me.

[Chaore]

@Affinity: If Headcrabs is not replaced by the start of D3 he will be modkilled. It's barely been a day, keep your pants on.

Edit: Correction. NOT EVEN A DAY. 4 FUCKING HOURS. KEEP YOUR FUCKING PANTS ON.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I like how you basically ignore what everyone else says whenever you decide to come in here.
Anyway, if you know I'm scum, why aren't you voting for me?
As Dorian asked in #513, why Rawr over me?
Pretty sure that you've failed to deliver a case that I was scum at any point in the game, despite the number of times you've voted for me and called me scum.

Also, I'm not the only one that thinks that that claim looks sketchy as hell, am I?

Okay, looking at this recent Serela/Rawr thing. Suddenly, Serela is scum again. What? These recent posts look absolutely nothing like his posts earlier. Are you getting your scum partners to write posts for you? Because that's what it looks like.

Uh, where did you ever call Serela scum? Or even mention Serela at all throughout this entire game?

Anyway, reading through everything else.

[PX]

I was talking about Rawr. And I forgot to add
NOT ME OVER ME

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Are you ever going to actually provide reasons for why you think I'm scum?

As for the rest of the game, it's kind of uninteresting to me for the time being.

BT doesn't exist.
I agree with the stuff Bardiche says.
Serela is just there I guess.
So is Shadoweh.
Dorian makes sense.
Affinity's LAL and jump onto herdcarbs strikes me as a bit fishy.
herdcarbs doesn't exist either.
DrRawr has done a lot of scummy shit, but I dunno basically.
And PX is scum.

PX > DrRawr = Affinity > herdcarbs I guess.

[Affinity]

PX is being really irritating for not answering the questions directed at him.  Also, calling misrep on most of PX's points on rawr, such as his accusation that rawr flip-flopped on Serela without any reason which is blatantly false, though I will leave rawr to defend himself.  In any case, I'm liking neither his claim nor his cases.

Everyone is being irritating for not explaining their reasoning as to why PX is scummier than rawr (and headcrabs, though he might be modkilled so this isn't too pressing now), making the PX wagon extremely fishy.  Might as well call for that once again from Dormio, Dorian, Bardiche, and BT. In general, it is very easy to be reasonable regarding the PX case due to his myriad faults, and this worries me, I want to know their reasoning as to why him over other reasonable alternatives.
 
Dormio, what exactly about Bardiche do you agree with?  That BT is scummy? Also, if you think Bard going after PX for LAL is alright, then why am I fishy for invoking LAL?  These are just two of the things that don't hold up with your 'opinions post'/

[Shadoweh]

SWADOWMEH: At that point, nobody was caring about Rawr. AT ALL. That said, Dormio's decision to shoot was scummy, as he never asked me to claim. Otherwise, you can sum it up to as gut, as I JUST know he's scum. Really, he wasn't using the day to figure out the best target to shoot, he just decided to shoot whoever Town wanted. And a scum dayvig would really make sense, as we have TWO confirmed DOCTORS.

We have two confirmed doctors that work in the night phase. How would they stop a dayvig? And didn't you say Dormio was scummy because he was asking people to claim? How can you hold him not asking you to claim when he'd decided to shoot someone else against him?

Hey Affinity want to make a wagon on Rawr again? :toot:

I don't think I'm in the right state of mind to do anything right now. I don't remember what time it is.

[PX]

Two ways for Town to stop the NK. Thus, scum must have something to counteract that, so a dayvig makes totes sense.

Dormio first asked for Dan to claim. Then he managed to get Serela to claim. Then you happened to mention that Dan might have another ability on top of his governing. At this point, I imagine him thinking that I would be easier to mislynch than Dan and to avoid the chance that Dan actually does have another ability, so he doesn't even bother forcing a claim out of me to see which is the best shot. If you were a town vig, you would want all your options to claim to have a better idea to decide which one to shoot, but he just decided to shoot with an incomplete view of his options.

@Affinity: What questions directed at me?

[Bardiche]

PX over Rawr because Rawr feels more like a clueless newbie with all the twitter posts who is steadily improving. Call it meta and speculative, but I'd think a newbie scum would consult the scum topic for "what is OMGUS" rather than post in the game thread. I also haven't seen anything that makes me immediately want to lynch him and hold the Day1 sentiment, that I find him mostly useless (a sentiment you echo'd at the time as being a useless remark as his uselessness was self-evident), and that hasn't changed much.

I'd consider lynching Rawr only if all the other alternatives are frankly unattractive.

what with so many being edgy about prying into him solely due to his roleclaim (e.g BT, Bardiche, Shadoweh, etc.),

I don't think the reason I'm not prying into herdcarbs too much is due to his roleclaim! He just keeps slipping my mind, and if we have a few more hours I can look into him. Gotta jet to a meeting, but I'll try to complete a read of herdcrabs and then give you my opinion on PX VS headcrabs. I think I have him somewhere banked into "newcomer, lol", so maybe that's a bad habit I need to rid myself of.

[Shadoweh]

Your newsletter is amazing and I wish to sheep to it. I am now willing to DIE FOR PX AGAIN.

FUCK OFF PX WAGON. You are trying to kill off my chosen one. Gamzee x Karkat 4EVER.
PX, is there a good reason you won't tell me what happened when I claimed?
Affinity, my reasoning is genius and you should only be nervous if it leaves you alone on the town wagon, which it shouldn't because this is not Subterranian Animism or however you make words. What do you think of PX's reasoning and willingness to call the vig scum when he had his gun cocked in his direction? Right now you're kind of not on a wagon. I'd like to not lynch PX today. I'd almost be willing to reread Dormio and see if he'd be lynchable but I don't think I've counted any support for that.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Why is PX scummier than Rawr?
At least Rawr seems to be reading the topic.
Will expand on this, as well as answer the other questions, but I got cut by something interesting.

Dormio first asked for Dan to claim.

Yeah, what about it? That was also before I claimed vig.

Then he managed to get Serela to claim.

I like how you're trying to pin this on me. All I asked was for content.

Then you happened to mention that Dan might have another ability on top of his governing.

Who mentioned this and when did it happen, because I do not recall such a thing happening.

At this point, I imagine him thinking that I would be easier to mislynch than Dan and to avoid the chance that Dan actually does have another ability, so he doesn't even bother forcing a claim out of me to see which is the best shot.

Uh, what?
Kindly ignore the fact that I've been wanting to shoot Dan for the entire day why don't you.

If you were a town vig, you would want all your options to claim to have a better idea to decide which one to shoot, but he just decided to shoot with an incomplete view of his options.

So, according to you, I was a scum vig waving around my gun to get information out of people. Right?
And now I'm not a town vig because I wasn't getting all the information out of people.


Case on me. Ever going to provide one?
Seriously, your entire "case", if you can even go so far as joking about calling it one, on me is bullshit.
Go DIAF.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Let me post you jerks.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Anyway, why is PX scummier than Rawr.
As stated before, at least Rawr seems to be reading the topic.
Shadoweh's said that he's all kinds of textbook scummy, and I'm not going to argue against that, but if you take a quick look at PX here, I'll explain why I think that Rawr is better. Or why PX is worse. However you want to word it.
All PX does is sit back, watch events unfold, then voteparks or something.
His D1 can be summed up as:

• OMGUS on me (#64) that I still think was highly overreactive and overly defensive.
• Defending himself whilst maintaining that I am scummy. (#121)
• Sheeping to my case, agreeing that Dan is scummy, whilst saying that I am also scummy.
• And... that's about it.

What is his D2, then?

• Random claim in #294. Claims that it activated cop powers that can only be used on 5 people.
• Votes DrRawr for going after easier targets (#404) whilst turning on his friend Shadoweh for being Shadoweh and accusing me of being a scum dayvig. On top of that, he also maintains that Dan is scummy for being overly reliant on the setup. Affinity's been referring to scum disconnects a lot this game. I think that it is highly apt to describe his dislike towards both me and Dan here as scum disconnect in thought processes.
• #406 is a thing.
• He votes me yet again in #468, claiming that I didn't ever build a case on him. He blatantly ignores my #409. I pointed this out to him. He refused to recognise that my statement exists. If he were to claim that he missed it now, I would find it rather hard to believe. As my post was directly before the one that he linked in his post.
• He claims yet again that I am scum in #571, but does not vote me. Instead, he goes back to voting for Rawr.
• Have I mentioned that he keeps reiterating his "case" on me? The one centred purely around my role? Does anyone recall what PX said that he disliked Dan for in #404?

Now, what do I agree with Bardiche on?
Everything but the BT thing.

Now, why are you fishy for invoking LAL when Bardiche is not?
Because your use of LAL felt more to me like a true LAL sentiment than Bardiche's.

[Dr Rawr]

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: DR. RAWR

His D1 consisted on tunneling Maav, and then jumping on to the popular wagon Hero. Even he said he didn't know his position in the wagon, so that means that he wasn't actually paying attention to it and just decided to jump on the largest wagon. D2, he completely forgets about Maav and proceeds to do... nothing. Really, much of his content involves answering questions, defending himself, and other small pointless comments. A little later he votes Serela when people were looking at him. He just calls headcrabs scummy out of nowhere. Same post, he doubts Serela's claim, but after Dormio's vig, and right after, he goes to vote headcrabs and say Serela is town. Overall, he's done a lot of sheeping to other players, and spent most of the day doing nothing.

oh hey i like the part where most of this didnt actually happen and you didnt read any of my post :V
-I didnt tunnel Maav, i voted him because i thought it posts and reasoning for voteing huh what were weird and not understandable
-I voted hero because i wanted a lynch, problem?
-Maav never existed because he was never here in the first place, but dorian was here
-er do explain PX how is me saying headcrabs is scummy out of no where? Its called fucking reads
-Also do note i only said serela is town if hes telling the truth, which i really do doubt
-Im pretty sure the only thing ive sheeped this game is the hero wagon so screw you

Also can i ask why didnt you use your claim day1? Also at shadoweh and bard, when chaore posted trueclaim messages, did his posts include any kind of hint on what it was like with PX?

##Unvote
##Vote:PX

[Vhaltz]

Is this a votecount? Again?

Affinity:
BT:
Dr. Rawr:  Shadoweh, PX
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche:
NeoSerela:
Headcrabs: Affinity
PX: Dormio, BT, Dorian, NeoSerela,  Dr. Rawr (PX is at L-1)
Dormio:

Not Voting: Headcrabs, Bardiche

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 12 hours and 30 minutes.

EDIT: Incorrect time was incorrect.

[Bardiche]

TL NOTE: Herdcrabs is a girl? Eh, wrote this with male pronouns, too lazy to replace them all.

Reading headcrabs, the first three posts are, in order: tell me why I shouldn't destroy you, PX claim or I destroy you, semi-claim. Curious post here... PX never claimed between his "PX claim or I destroy you", so where'd he get the idea PX can suicide? Interesting if PX flips Scum. Uninteresting otherwise.

Interesting claim here. Note: "I may have killed the scum inside Schezo". IOW, herdcrabs claimed he could purge someone of being Scum and turn them into a Townie. Does this game have alignment switching? Don't really like case on Shadoweh since it's "two people you rallied against flipped Town", and it's not the result but the act we're looking at. I do however like this observation in its originality, but dislike this observation for NK speculation. (argument ungrounded too)

His post here is interesting in the Chewbecca defence thing of Shadoweh (I agree the entire "because I'm Town and do Townie things" argument is getting annoying and Shadoweh doesn't look willing to ever improve on this), but per his own logic he's scummy since huhwhat flipped Town. Refusal to state cases against Dormio and huhwhat because "not enough mistakes" seems a bit weird: it'd be better to make clear why you suspect people ahead of time than wait for them to provide enough "scummy things" to make a case on them for.

I don't know, I instinctively dislike the line because it sounds too much like, "I'm waiting to snipe for stuff". At the very least, I want herdcrabs to substantiate at least a line or two on why Dormio is scum, since he could do so for Shadoweh and Huhwhat.

Lack of D1 and pulling scumreads out of nowhere on D2 is distressing and I get Affinity's beef with him. His entire D1 is sloppy, and I'm inclined to look at it as bad play rather than scummy play. Given herdcrabs is (perhaps/likely) getting modkilled, my interest in lynching him is nearly non-existent. I prefer PX as a lynch.

[Dr Rawr]

Er i think headcrabs is being modkilled its been well over 4 hours :V, think just waiting on chaore

[Bardiche]

Chaore is just overreacting to Affinity's question by saying, "It hasn't even been four hours since I declared he would be modkilled."

-Also do note i only said serela is town if hes telling the truth, which i really do doubt

You're looking more scummy there, chap. You raised to me that if Serela is telling the Truth, my vote on BT makes no sense to you since BT'd be Town. Now you call Serela's honesty into doubt. You cannot take two stances on the same subject: you must take one stance and stick to it. This flip-flopping between reads is becoming more egregious now and it must be resolved.

What stance do you take on Serela?

[Dr Rawr]

I cant tell if you are trying to bring BT into this

If i were to ignore serelas role claim, id say scum

[capt. h]

Yes this a votecount. Again.

Affinity:
BT:
Dr. Rawr:  Shadoweh, PX
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche:
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity
PX: Dormio, BT, Dorian, NeoSerela,  Dr. Rawr (PX is at L-1)
Dormio:

Not Voting: Headcrabs, Bardiche

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 9 hours and 45 minutes, at 9:00 PM EST, unless Chaore says otherwise.

Philosophy Incorperated: Answering its own rhetorical questions since 500 BC.

[Bardiche]

Your read of Serela does not affect my read of Serela. Similarly your read of BT will not affect my read of BT. I have decided he is not scummy on merits of his own actions seperate from Serela.

Now I ask you: do you believe his roleclaim or not? You raised the argument before here that "if what Serela is saying is true, your BT vote makes no sense to me"... but if you truly hold/held that Serela is Scum, why would my vote on BT not make sense? The reasons I voted him did not include Serela, and if you held that Serela was Scum there was no reason to imply Serela being truthful means BT is Town. In fact, I asserted here that the logic doesn't stand.

##Vote: Rawr
Please substantiate: what is your read on Serela, and why did you attack my case on BT based on it "not making sense" if Serela spoke true?

[capt. h]

Because I'm still here. Again.

Affinity:
BT:
Dr. Rawr:  Shadoweh, PX, Bardiche
Huh What:
Shadoweh:
Bardiche:
NeoSerela:
Action Dan:
Headcrabs: Affinity
PX: Dormio, BT, Dorian, NeoSerela,  Dr. Rawr (PX is at L-1)
Dormio:

Not Voting: Headcrabs

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 9 hours and 45 minutes, at 9:00 PM EST.

[BT]

PX's claim. I don't like it. Besides it being sketchy, there is also the question of:

Why did you not TC on D1?

Simply doesn't fit.

I don't like the reason for going after Dormio, either. "We have two doctors, therefore scum vig is very possible". Yes, I've raised this possibility as well. You need to explain why this is, in fact, what Dormio is. "He's not acting like a town vig for *reasons*". These reasons are just... so shaky, in that what you presented is behavior that can be motivated by scum intent, but could still very well be town behavior.

I don't like this even more when he's somehow "sure that Dormio is scum" only due to the fact that they're slapfighting. And all the while he makes a case on Rawr, which one would only assume is a less-certain scum read. This is basically admittance that he has no good reasons to call Dormio scum for, and that no one would follow his case as a result.

I do not like how Affinity generally agrees with the Scum!PX sentiments but tries to direct attention to Rawr and Headcrabs at the same time. I... I might be seeing a PX-Affinity scumteam again. I need to let this sink in.

Headcrabs is ~yaaay inactive~.

Rawr is PX's dream push. Aside from that... bleh, reread in progress. Probably next post.

[Dr Rawr]

Because of dormios vig, serela claimed...

...okay, I'm not sure I have anything insightful and productive to bring out right now to dissuade Dormio's vigging hand. What I can do though, is claim! So that I'm not riddled with holes soon.

I havent seen much town in serela all game. I cant clear people just based on a role claim and then ignore the rest of there play... Which is why im voting PX and thinking his claim is bullshit

About BT, i thought about it and couldnt serela just be confirming someone else as town to make himself look town also? which reading his post

...okay, I'm not sure I have anything insightful and productive to bring out right now to dissuade Dormio's vigging hand. What I can do though, is claim! So that I'm not riddled with holes soon.

[BT]

Uh... about not believing Serela's claim but voting PX...

How does that work, exactly?

Seeing as you have one scum (Serela) on PX's wagon and all.

[BT]

My personal opinion on this is that, while it IS possible that Serela's claim is some well-thought-out bull, it is simply too unlikely to be worth taking the chance, and scum can ride on this slim possibility to make people lynch a nigh-confirmed town.

This is actually how I read your behavior at the moment. As scum.

But I'll let my reread do the sorting out.

[Dr Rawr]

vote scum to avoid being viewed as scum?

[Dr Rawr]

Serela never gave a reason for voting PX so i assume this

[BT]

I was simply saying that I see what you're doing now as a scum sort of thing, compared to a town sort of thing.

I don't want my read on you to be rushed so I'm still rereading.

My vote is on scum.

[Bardiche]

Rawr, answer the question part #2: why did you tell me that my BT vote didn't make sense if Serela was speaking the truth, while thinking Serela is scum? A scum!Serela, irrespective of speaking true or not, sheds no light on BT's alignment and should not be token as a sign of BT's towniness or scumminess.

couldnt serela just be confirming someone else as town to make himself look town also?

No? Because even if BT is Town, and Serela is speaking the truth, it doesn't make Serela Town? Serela's making some amount of logical sense which makes me not think of him as Scum at the moment, and BT doesn't do that "Look at me I am scum" thing now that I look at it from a sensible point of view.

In any case I see even voting you isn't going to make you more lucid. This makes me sadface. I don't like my company on the rawr vote, though, so I am not willing to lynch. ##Unvote

Outside of sudden revelations I don't think I want to sway from the PX wagon much: herdcrabs might get modkilled and he seems more bad play than scummy play (and I frown at Affinity for pursuing bad play), and Rawr I now revise my opinion on. Steadily improving should be infuriatingly unclear and giving unsatisfying answers. I may be willing to lynch Rawr, but I am not content to share that wagon with PX (scum) and Shadoweh (information lynch only if he flips Town which is thoroughly unsatisfying).