IMP MAFIA - TOWN VICTORY

[ActionDan]

While a 1-shot vanillizer vanillizing someone D1 and NK'ing them afterwards sounds like an inefficient way to play, I don't think it is that improbable.  All they stand to lose is perhaps the chance to NK some townie role in exchange for some possible possible cred... so his role isn't really strong enough for me to discount him being scum.

Am in agreement with the Dan thing by Bardiche, BT and Dorian and would be willing to lynch/vig for the standard reasons.  Not elaborating the case on Bardiche despite given over four days and a few sizeable posts to do it is really anti-town, regardless of his role which I don't believe seems town-affirming.  Will try judging more clearly between headcrabs and Dan in their next two posts though.

Cut by Dan: We do not care about what defence you are offering yourself D1; who do you think is scum now and why?  You have not answered that question well for over half the game now.

D1 I thought Hero, Bard and Schezo were scum.

Today I think Bard is scum, and Rawr as well.

My town reads at this point are Serela (strong), Shadoweh (strong), BT (strong), Dormio (strong), Headcrabs (eeeeeeh town based on role).

Btw Headcrabs can you explain your ability you used on Schezo.  I think the way you phrased it sounded like it would kill scum, otherwise it would confirm the person targetted as town but vanillalize them as well

Dorian's lastest post doesn't make me want to strangle him, so by PoE

The probable 3 scum are in Bard, Rawr, Affinity, Px.

Affinity you are just pissy that I haven't produced a formal case on Bard yet.  I don't get how you are peachy about Bard attacking me when you thought Bard's attack on BT which lasted 1.5 game days was a load of bull.  You tried this crap against me in Schezo's game D1 when you said it was unacceptable for me not producing reads yet.  Let me remind you that this Day is only 2/3 over. 

@Shadoweh, I have nothing more to claim.  Besides being able to govern a lynch and suicide, I am a vanilla townie. 

Also something that I feel should be said.  Most of my town reads claimed, trying to be useful to the town.  BT I believe has confirmed Serela's power?  Shadoweh and Px have used their claims. 
Affinity, Bard, Rawr, and Maav/Dorian have not.   I do not believe this to be a happy coincidence.  Neither do I believe any of them have the power to suicide one way or another.

Now I'm gonna go eat dinner.   

[capt. h]

Too lazy to write flavor votecount

Affinity: NeoSerela
BT:
Dr. Rawr: PX
Huh What:
Shadoweh: Headcrabs
Bardiche: Action Dan
NeoSerela: Dr. Rawr
Action Dan: Bardiche, Dorian
Headcrabs: Affinity

Not Voting:  Dormio, Shadoweh, BT

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in 22.5 hours.

[Shadoweh]

Do remember that last game, THERE WERE NO SCUM ON THE HELEPOLIS WAGON. Anyways, looking through your recent posts, WHERE DID SERELA GO?! And you're saying Dan is town, but you're saying that we should go after him?

*goes back and rereads wagon* I thought I remembered Pesco being on there. Admittedly that disheartens me, but I think it's alright to assume Day 1 is going to be different then Day 3. Scum want to ride the town wagon.  In that circumstance, all the scum were clustered on yet another town wagon. Where were the scum yesterday?
I don't know what your statement about Serela means. I mentioned I believe he's town in my previous post and have no intention to pursue him.
I'm saying that I think Dan is town and sounds town but his vote and the nightkill are against him.

I feel like arguing with Bard about this is giving too much game-mechanics to argue about vs scumhunting, so I'll be briefer. You're questioning why we should let Dan kill himself instead of lynching him, saying confirming him when he dies (Keep in mind he has claimed he resets the clock, so it would be his alone) isn't as useful as just outright lynching him. What you're attempting is exactly the circumstance in which he should be allowed to remove himself from the game. You're suspicious and you want the vig to kill him/the town to lynch him. One town death that allows us to lynch someone else is worth not being the day's lynch. You're also assuming that his governing would be on Scum. Your entire argument is based around lynching Dan because he's going to stop us from lynching scum. You're not even willing to let him prove he has this role with twilight! You are now suggesting what, that he's a scum governor that can save one of his buddies? Why the fuck would he claim if he could do that, knowing he's fucking himself over because he already claimed that he dies? He'd just quietly govern someone and watch people scramble!

Deep breaths. I think the logic you're pushing is coming from the worst possible place. I don't even think your attacks went all out until you found out there was a vig getting ready to take a shot between Dan and PX. Dormio, we have less then 24 hours. If your vig doesn't reset the day, you need to use it now. I don't, don't, don't from the bottom of my town soul think you should shoot Dan today. I think at this exact moment I would go crazy and

##VOTE BARDICHE

For pushing the worst logic and the worst scenarios and playing to the paranoia of confused town.

[Shadoweh]

PS if you people thought Dan was as scummy as your posts imply you would have your votes on him instead of holding back and waiting for the vig to take him.

[Dr Rawr]

Then who should dormio vig?

[Bardiche]

Unsurprising, Shadoweh votes me for calling her scummy. I think everyone I've called scummy's had a turn voting me now.

You're also assuming that his governing would be on Scum. Your entire argument is based around lynching Dan because he's going to stop us from lynching scum.

Your entire argument is based around lynching Dan because he's going to stop us from lynching scum.

Misrepresentation. I clearly said that I worked under the assumption we'd pick a scapegoat to test with, and irrespective of their alignment, from Dan's perspective he would be murdering a confirmed Town (himself) in exchange for an unconfirmed alignment x. There's no profit and I don't see why Dan maintains that it is profitable to let him do this. Or why you maintain it is.

Until Chaore confirms Dan's claim would indeed reset the clock, I am not inclined to believe it will reset the clock: specifically because it resets the entire day, since his true claim would apparently have to be posted post-lynch. Even then, if we let Dan suicide and he is Town, his confirmation action still removes one Town and confirms no Scum. There is no profit for Town!Dan to govern ever. Your refusal to even try to refute this strikes me that you just do not know how to refute it.

Your speculation is silly in accusing me of going after Dan only because Dormio is expressing an interest in vigging as being somehow scummy. Even as Town, if a Vig says they'll vig person x or y, I'd want them to shoot the scummiest person. If I truly wanted to influence Dormio's shot, I would be taking responsibility also if the shot happens to be on Town. What exactly is scummy about pushing for a lynch on what I feel is scum?

That I am "pushing the worst logic" and "the worst scenarios" is a flat accusation that needs backing. What exactly is terrible about the case on Dan outside of his role, and what exactly is flawed with my logic regarding the effect of a confirmation of Dan's abilities? What exactly is flawed or terrible about the scenarios posted, given I described each scenario that could arise from Dan suiciding himself?

What "confused Townie"'s paranoia am I playing into? Yours? I don't see anyone who qualifies as "confused Townie", since you pretty decisively stated you knew Dan to be Town because his claim was similar to how a Townie did it in the past, while discarding the possibility of Scum, you know, faking to be Town. You've looked no further than his role, and this short-sightedness is not Townie. It is scummy.

Explain what else about my case on Dan is flawed, rather than pretend having a case on Dan at all at this juncture is a scummy thing to do with respect to Dormio's declared vig.

[Bardiche]

Also, cutely, Dan is trying to spin the fact not all of us roleclaimed/truepowerclaimed despite earlier suggesting it is on a "need-to-know basis" as somehow being scummy or a "happy coincidence" that somehow should point to the four in his bucket list being scum. Accusing Affinity of being scum for "being pissy" he hasn't produced a case yet is laughable, and saying that "the Day is only 2/3rds over" makes the entire sentiment go whack: do you actually believe going 48-hours with a stated suspicion of someone being scum, strong enough to suggest you'd lynch him over all else on D1, is a [bTOWN[/b] thing to do?

If so, you're extremely misguided, and a post-game discussion regarding this matter is in order.

It feels like all your Town clears are role-related with the exception of Shadoweh, who by this point just seems to be your BFF.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

If your vig doesn't reset the day, you need to use it now.

Oh, hey, sweet. We're in the last 24 hours of the day. Let's make that the last 48 hours.

I am Eridan Ampora, Prince of Hope and ActionDan, you are no match for my ludicrous strength.

[Shadoweh]

Misrepresentation. I clearly said that I worked under the assumption we'd pick a scapegoat to test with, and irrespective of their alignment, from Dan's perspective he would be murdering a confirmed Town (himself) in exchange for an unconfirmed alignment x. There's no profit and I don't see why Dan maintains that it is profitable to let him do this. Or why you maintain it is.

Because the alternative is being lynched or using up our vig for being scummy and being murdered for no gain at all. Why would you want to be mislynched instead of vigging yourself? It doesn't matter if he knows his own alignment when other people are willing to kill him for it.

Until Chaore confirms Dan's claim would indeed reset the clock, I am not inclined to believe it will reset the clock: specifically because it resets the entire day, since his true claim would apparently have to be posted post-lynch.

You're being unreasonable and asking for a condition that you know won't happen. This is you building a tunnel for yourself and refusing to believe there's an alternative. I've refuted you repeatedly and you refuse to acknowledge that.

Your speculation is silly in accusing me of going after Dan only because Dormio is expressing an interest in vigging as being somehow scummy. Even as Town, if a Vig says they'll vig person x or y, I'd want them to shoot the scummiest person. If I truly wanted to influence Dormio's shot, I would be taking responsibility also if the shot happens to be on Town. What exactly is scummy about pushing for a lynch on what I feel is scum?

Why is it silly? Why aren't you suggesting that he vig BT? Why are you only interested in him vigging the popular guy of the hour instead of putting down reasons he should be vigging YOUR suspect. This is your chance to not have to argue with seven people, but to argue with one, to get your shot. Yet you want us to use it on Dan. Your changing of priority without thinking of how it applies to the argument you've been presenting is scummy.

Cut by sigh

[Chaore]

With a sudden Roar, Dormio leaps out and points his finger at Action Dan, claiming his right to power as ERIDAN AMPORA, PRINCE OF HOPE.

Action Dan is exploded on the spot.

After rifling through his belongings you figure out that he was DAVE STRIDER, KNIGHT OF TIME, and also a Vanilla Townie.

His True Claim ability was to rewind the day to the beginning at the cost of his own life after a lynch had occurred and the body was searched, bringing the new information back before probably tragically dying.

Oh well. 24 hours have been added to the day, and the votecount has been reset.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

:/

##Vote PX

[Shadoweh]

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

##VOTE: BARDICHE

Holy fuck it would have copped the person. Dan why did you not mention this? >_<

[Bardiche]

Why aren't you suggesting that he vig BT?

Because I decided to let off and find something else because, I dunno, people were repeatedly telling me BT wasn't that scummy?

And now Dan actually flips Town, and a sort of time-travel Cop to boot. I am thoroughly lost.

Shadoweh, can you still refute my case based on the merits of Dan's content rather than go on some zealous nuttiness just because of his roleflip? I maintain that with the information provided there was no reason he would want to use his ability or should want to use it, and it provided no boon to Town.

##Vote: Shadoweh, since it's fashionable for people to vote me for voting them, after all. I still think Shadoweh's defence of Dan is scummy, and her refusal to actually build a case on me is so as well.

[Bardiche]

Also I'm John Eggbert, Heir of Wind, and I suppose I'll be doing some windy thing. For science.

[Bardiche]

Also I still maintain Dan did not act in a Pro-Town capacity with his behaviour and so find my case on him valid enough that I need to hear some serious words from you demeriting the case before I find your defence any bit less scummy or just plain headache inducing.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh, can you still refute my case based on the merits of Dan's content rather than go on some zealous nuttiness just because of his roleflip? I maintain that with the information provided there was no reason he would want to use his ability or should want to use it, and it provided no boon to Town.

Dan's content wasn't that bad. At all. He was concentrating on trying to break the game open with assumptions about other people's roles based on his own. People saw his content as scummy because other people said he was scummy. I maintain that SCUM DON'T FUCKING CLAIM TO BE ABLE TO SUICIDE ON DAY 1. Do recall that I started pushing for you before the flip happened, yeah? With reasons why someone just might want to vig themselves instead of being vigged or lynched? When someone attacks a person I believe is town with bad logic that ignores reality and follows it up with an 'oh I still believe what I was saying despite that town flip right there' I assume that said person is pushing bad logic on a mislynch and aim my anti-scum cannons in their direction. You refuse to acknowledge that I've refuted your claim there was no benefit, repeatedly, and the fact you continue to refute it AFTER HE FLIPPED TOWN, DESPITE YOU WANTING TO WASTE THE DAY'S LYNCH ON HIM, makes me rage.

On a seperate note, just in case these power roles weren't confusing enough. Dan flipped as a vanilla townie, despite his true-claim ability. It seems like roles and items, true claim abilities aren't considered to be the character's power.  I'd ask Headcrabs how that figures in with his power, but that would require Headcrabs to have posted within the last day.

I'm going to calm down and reread all the people pushing for Dan. I like where my vote is since Bard has decided to follow it with omg u suk and trying to blame it on the townflip.

[Shadoweh]

I would like you to answer something though. What's your opinion of PX, and why was he a less worthwhile person to shoot then Dan? If you are scum as I suspect, it throws suspicions on PX by default because in essence you were defending him when it looked like Dormio was more likely to shooted hem.

[Chaore]

A TRUE CLAIM HAS BEEN USED.

Suddenly a huge windy thing sweeps through the entire room, knocking everyone off of their feet!

It is incredibly windy and it is probably because Bardiche has claimed as JOHN EGGBERT, HEIR OF BREATH.

Swank. Game Continue.

[PX]

##Vote: Dormio

I don't see a case. Seriously, you came up with a list of crap Affinity did and then proceed to /care until you get my flip. And you haven't even posted a case on me.

That said, I dislike Shadoweh for attacking/threatening those who call her scum. And your D2 has been sub par so far. And Bard and I are totes buddies

Cut by 3 posts reading

[Bardiche]

I'm not blaming anything on the Town flip. I still maintain his behaviour was scummy, and that your behaviour is scummy insofar as promoting a -1 to Town goes, and rather than bother with explaining how it is profitable to let Dan do his thing you vote me.

There's also the matter where you just one-line brush away the entire wall I wrote on why I thought Dan was scummy and continuously misrepresent my case on him! And the case on you, it seems.

I never voted Dan with the hope he would be shot. I never even pointed to Dormio on who he should shoot save for BT's "how would you feel if Dan got vigged", as I never entertained the idea to influence the shot. If I have, then it means I am responsible for Dan's death, which still doesn't seem to jive with a Scum!Bardiche, as sacrificing myself for PX seems like a crazy thing to do. Especially if, as you speculate, I am Scum and you would hold me responsible to the extent of lynching me and then suggesting I was "defending" PX "in essence".

I may pull gambles, but I wouldn't pull such an idiotic one.

I voted Dan because I wanted to see him lynched for the actions I listed, and I found you suspicious for defending Dan based on role and role alone, while the benefits of the confirmation were not obvious at the time. Even now I still maintain that Dan's actions were not in line with pro-town behaviour, refusing to participate in discussions regarding who is scum and reactive scum hunting now in D2. You can lambaste me for that all you like, but I still pursued who I thought was most scummy with the intention of lynching scum.


Cut by true claim resolution. And it's a huge pile of useless. Damnit, Chaore, you should've told me this game was bastard mod.

[Bardiche]

Also cut by PX going OMGUS on Dormio.

You know, fuck it. I really don't like this game. What in the blazes is up with everyone and their ma OMGUSing, generally being devoid of :opinions:, refusing to participate in town discussion and just generally obfuscating what they are thinking? So far the only person I would sheep to blindly is Dorian.

[ActionDan]

V-V-V-V-Votecount!

A storm's coming. 

My old bones ache. 

Take heart, young one. 

For honor! 

Stand and fight! 

Will these troubles ever cease? 

I pray this old body does not ... 

Torment around me. Torment in me. Torment be with me. And let us conquer our foes. They do not understand our pain. Do you? No. Not a soul can. And for that, We shall make them feel the torment... The torment that inhabits my soul.

[Shadoweh]

Somehow I shouldn't be surprised Bard didn't know the name of his true claim.

PX. Did you get notified by Chaore about something when I claimed. You implied it was something serious by the way you were telling people to stfu about it, but now you're willing to believe I'm scum. How has my day been subpar. Because I was right and we should have been looking for a third option?

Cut by Bardiche claiming I haven't explained why it was profitable to let Dan do what he wanted. I'm going to start quoting every time I've repeated how a -1 for town that doesn't go into night is better then a -2 for town. You're misrepping me now because I've laid out my explanation repeatedly, and rather then tell me you disagree with it, you keep claiming I've never done it in the first place.

I never voted Dan with the hope he would be shot. I never even pointed to Dormio on who he should shoot save for BT's "how would you feel if Dan got vigged", as I never entertained the idea to influence the shot. If I have, then it means I am responsible for Dan's death, which still doesn't seem to jive with a Scum!Bardiche, as sacrificing myself for PX seems like a crazy thing to do. Especially if, as you speculate, I am Scum and you would hold me responsible to the extent of lynching me and then suggesting I was "defending" PX "in essence".

This is in essence trying to claim that you were ignoring the game state as it was playing out. You don't have to say "Dormio shoot this dude right here" to be aware that by presenting reasons that someone should be lynched when the dayvig is deciding his shot is likely to result in their death. The fact that you're not trying to claim responsibility for it and are therefore not sacrificing yourself for PX would make that result more likely. You didn't feel the need to push anything on PX, but you went out of your way to push a case on Dan for being too dangerous to let live.

I.. uhm..

Hold on, I think something just cut my train of thought.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Why we should listen to Dormio and lynch PX 101:

I don't see a case. Seriously, you came up with a list of crap Affinity did and then proceed to /care until you get my flip. And you haven't even posted a case on me.

Post #409 exists, you know.
Also, as mentioned before, your OMGUS on me in D1 was scummy.
I think that your OMGUS on me right now is pretty scummy too.
For one trying to call me out on not having a case, I fail to see yours.

[Shadoweh]

Okay I'm going to assume that was a bah post.

Just answer me this. Do you acknowledge that scum both probably wanted us to lynch Hero, and probably wanted Dormio to shoot town instead of chancing one of their townie buddies being shot? If so, do you acknowledge that we should be looking for the common links between these two activities?

[Shadoweh]

* one of their scummy buddies I aM tHe BeSt WrItUr

[Dr Rawr]

ok well i went to this very nice planetarium just now, but i see shit went down i will be reading up.

But for now

##Vote: Headcrabs

[Dr Rawr]

Also i am Tavros, Page of Breath

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

...Chaore, you do realize that John's last name only has one g, right?

that was my bahpost i guess i had better go back to being dead since i died a while ago and am gone forever and definitely dead and not ever going to post in this thread ever again bye

[Bardiche]

Do you acknowledge that scum both probably wanted us to lynch Hero, and probably wanted Dormio to shoot town instead of chancing one of their townie buddies being shot?

Scum, knowing Hero had no reason to lie and take him at face-value... yes, I can acknowledge that it is beneficial to Scum to lynch Hero over Hero suiciding himself, since they'd know his claim of resetting the entire day was true.

Obviously scum would want Dormio to shoot a Townie instead of a Scum Buddy to scum.

The above leaves out my own feelings on the matter.

If so, do you acknowledge that we should be looking for the common links between these two activities?

... This is one of those things where you'll use my words as a reason to lynch me, isn't it. Yes, I acknowledge there is merit in examining the common link between those two activities.

You're proposing that scum would A) want to lynch Dan and B) direct Dormio's shot to Town. And because I A) wanted to lynch Dan and B) willing or not likely had a hand in directing Dormio to shoot Dan (now a confirmed Town), I satisfy both conditions for being Scum to you, yes?

I counter by saying that a Townie, not knowing Dan is being truthful, and believing Dan is scum, could still push a wagon to lynch Dan, and could still want Dormio to shoot Dan: therefore, the acts alone are insufficient to indict someone as Scum. Even if that someone is notme, I'd want more reason to push a lynch on them than just someone fitting both those criteria.