PC-98 characters you wish to see back THAT AREN'T Mima and Shinki

[game2011]

Yes, I'm aware that this kind of question has been asked to death, but almost everybody would bring up Mima and Shinki when asked this question, so I'm asking if there are other characters other than those two you wish to see return?  Is there even anyone here who doesn''t care about those two to begin with and prefer other characters?

Honestly saying, I was never a fan of either of those two, so it's all right with me whether or not they return.  I'd rather see Mai and Yuki return, and if I can only choose one, then it would be the former.

On the side note, I once went to a Touhou thread on the Wii U version of SSB4 at GameFaqs, and Mima was compared to Geno there.  They both are characters that fans demanded heavily to see return/make it into a SSB game, but will mostly likely never see the day of the light.  I also realized that they both wear blue...

[Beef Owl]

I honestly don't get most of the PC-98 hype. Mima is kinda cool in that she's kinda like to Marisa sorta how Yukari is to Reimu, a neat foil character, and Shinki honestly didn't have anything too special about her for a goddess.
I also never quite understood why Mai and Yuki are so popular, I mean, the Red Oni Blue Oni routine is kinda cliche and beyond that they're a bit bland, but alas.

I always really liked Elly, if only because the boomerang scythe gimmick is neat. Also, despite their total lack of depth, I liked Orange and Sara simply because they seemed to portray "normal" youkai, and the only "normal" characters in the series really are fairies and animal youkai save a few like Rumia. That is to say, I almost like them because they are a essentially a standard, of which there are precious few in Gensokyo.

Also, Genji, because Genji was a boss

[Vyrien]

Yuuk- wait, she's already here.

Personally I'd like to see Sariel or Konngara make another appearance but most of all, Kana Anaberal. She had pretty much zero character development and isn't very popular (from what I've seen) in fanon. Plus, her theme is really nice.

Also obligatory Elly request, because DAT SCYTHE.

[ふとくていなねこじょおう]

Elly and Sariel.

And Genjii,because he was awesome.

[shadowbringer]

- Yumemi
- Gengetsu & Mugetsu
- Rika (wherever she is/was, there's fighting against machines)

I wouldn't object against cameos like YuugenMagan/5 Magic Stones/Kikuri/Elis and other people (more PC-98 stage enemies would be welcome, as well). Also, there are non-PC-98 characters that still haven't appeared on the games.

[三重階乗]

Considering that she got a pretty direct reference in Meiling's Soku ending, I'd honestly be most intrigued at a surprise reappearance by Gengetsu (and her sister Mugetsu, most likely). GRT antics aside, I'd be pretty interested in seeing how ZUN would create a Dreamweaver "Youkai," whether it's our resident Rule ⑨'d Freddy Kruger(s) making a return to Gensokyo or a new one taking their place. Assuming it WAS Gengetsu that beat Meiling up, explaining their absence would be fairly easy as that means they've been existing in beings' dreams. Kinda hard to appear in the material plane when you've been wandering many temporary dream realms for nearly 2 decades.

On the side note, I once went to a Touhou thread on the Wii U version of SSB4 at GameFaqs, and Mima was compared to Geno there.  They both are characters that fans demanded heavily to see return/make it into a SSB game, but will mostly likely never see the day of the light.  I also realized that they both wear blue...

They also both have cosmic motifs (Geno's a doll possessed by some sort of spirit from a higher plane and has quite a bit of star-related stuff, Mima's general theme for magic is space) and have each had a small cameo appearance somewhere since their disappearance (One of the M&L games, can't remember which; Akyuu's Untouched Score Vol. 4(?)).

I must honestly be the only person in the western Touhou fandom that really likes Mima, but does NOT want to see her return. I honestly think such a thing would mostly be a disappointment, especially given how much of "an all-powerful badass with TWILIGHT SPARK and shit" she's made out to be most of the time.

[Sukusuku Keine]

Rikako Asakura. Because glasses girls are cute.

[Takamachi Ruroha]

For personal preference alone, Yumemi and Chiyuri.

To fill out Yuka's background, Elly (and Kurumi too, why not).

[nintendonut888]

I find it amusing how accepted my theory of Gengetsu's ability as a dream manipulator is, even though there's nothing in canon to support it.

Anyway, as a huge PC-98 nut, I can say that there is only one character I truly want to see return: Meira. Such a random, intriguing character who is never seen again. Even if I'm filling out the details for myself, I want to know more about the yin-yang orb subplot that was just dropped after SoEW. Considering the plot seems to be heading in the direction of picking apart the religious factions, this would be a perfect time to bring them up again.

But really, I've never seen the need to have PC-98 characters return. That's suggesting there's something "inferior" about where they originally appeared.

[Starxsword]

If PC-98 characters come back, I rather see them in an entirely new background.

@三重階乗:
What? Meiling's Hisoutensoku ending contains no such reference.

[Drake]

Assuming it WAS Gengetsu that beat Meiling up, explaining their absence would be fairly easy as that means they've been existing in beings' dreams. Kinda hard to appear in the material plane when you've been wandering many temporary dream realms for nearly 2 decades.

Not really, then you'd have to explain why she was suddenly able to reappear which is basically the same problem.

They also both have cosmic motifs (Geno's a doll possessed by some sort of spirit from a higher plane and has quite a bit of star-related stuff, Mima's general theme for magic is space) and have each had a small cameo appearance somewhere since their disappearance (One of the M&L games, can't remember which; Akyuu's Untouched Score Vol. 4(?)).

I must honestly be the only person in the western Touhou fandom that really likes Mima, but does NOT want to see her return. I honestly think such a thing would mostly be a disappointment, especially given how much of "an all-powerful badass with TWILIGHT SPARK and shit" she's made out to be most of the time.

Well first of all, not wanting her to come back because other people will whine she isn't a mary sue is just as bad as wanting her to come back because of such. Secondly, the whole incredible badass thing is predominantly spread by people who haven't actually played the games. Mima has no Twilight Spark. She has no Spark, at all. It was entirely Hachikuma that decided these things. If these people are disappointed that Mima is actually just a really snarky, less powerful manipulative of Yukari, then that's their issue to deal with.


Anyways, Chiyuri, Yumemi, Kurumi, Elly.

[Phlegeth]

Rika cause fighting a tank on foot...broom...whatever is awesome.  And her themes are awesome.

I'd like to see Orange too.

[shadowbringer]

If these people are disappointed that Mima is actually just a really snarky, less powerful manipulative of Yukari, then that's their issue to deal with.

there's no data that supports the "less powerful" part, as neither of the character's full powers are known. Why's Yukari even mentioned?

[Sophilia]

Hmmmmm...Kana, PoDD Science Team, and Sara.  Maybe Elis and Elly too.  But really, I'd be more satisfied with just a cameo in a Fairies panel or the like, rather then forcing a story around them.  I just want to know they're still there.

[Desu_Cake]

Rather than seeing any of the characters reappear in any of the games, I'd rather see the actual games they appear in get a nice shiny remake, and maybe some appearances in the side material.
That said, if any characters were to reappear, I'd like to see Yumemi and Chiyuri. They'd also be some of the easiest for Zun to explain where they were.

[Mr. Bob]

Nobody expects the return of Yuugen Magen!

[三重階乗]

@三重階乗:
What? Meiling's Hisoutensoku ending contains no such reference.

From the previous Possibly-Crazy stuff thread (I was surprised when I first noticed it, too):

I'm sure most people who have looked into Gengetsu have heard ZUN call her "the most terrible, most fearful boss" by now.

The epic "Youkai" like Taisui Xingjun that Meiling had to run away from in her dream in 12.3? When you leave it untranslated, the adjetives she uses match those ZUN used when talking about Gengetsu over a decade before then in the LLS music room.

That link wasn't there before, and is just provided as proof (the line's at about 7:05). The translation patch changes up the wording making it pretty easily missed.

[Starxsword]

I am looking at the text and I don't see how that is relevant. It could possibly be a reference, but that is as far as I will give it. The Devil's
Recitation spell makes a much better reference than this.

@shadowbringer:
I will just slightly touch on this. You can logically deduce this in the sense that prior to EoSD, there are no spell card rules in question.
So it is assumed that people would use full power, as in the case of Mima where she fought Reimu not once, but twice. Reimu
is likely much weaker in her PC-98 days than in her Windows days.
I could add more, but I don't want this to get messy, since it could possibly lead to an argument, so I will just comment on Mima once.

So I will just say that in either case, people will complain if Mima is back as a Mary Sue and people will complain if she is not back as
a Mary Sue.

[iK]

It's been said, but personally, I'd like to see Elly back because of "dat scythe" and her wonderful hat, Yumemi and Chiyuri , and perhaps the other PoDD characters because I love  me some Ellen and Kana, as well as Yuki, Mai, and Yumeko under Shinki.  I like some of the other characters' designs, but they are about as relevant to the games as Wriggle and Letty. From that group the characters that come to mind are Elis,  Kurumi, Sara, Luize/Louise,  and Ruukoto.

[Vyrien]

To fill out Yuka's background, Elly (and Kurumi too, why not).

HOW COULD I FORGET KURUMI?! *cries in the corner*

[shadowbringer]

I am looking at the text and I don't see how that is relevant. It could possibly be a reference, but that is as far as I will give it. The Devil's
Recitation spell makes a much better reference than this.

@shadowbringer:
I will just slightly touch on this. You can logically deduce this in the sense that prior to EoSD, there are no spell card rules in question.
So it is assumed that people would use full power, as in the case of Mima where she fought Reimu not once, but twice. Reimu
is likely much weaker in her PC-98 days than in her Windows days.
I could add more, but I don't want this to get messy, since it could possibly lead to an argument, so I will just comment on Mima once.

So I will just say that in either case, people will complain if Mima is back as a Mary Sue and people will complain if she is not back as
a Mary Sue.

only because the spellcard rules weren't active back then doesn't mean that the characters were fighting with everything they had, even though they weren't fighting to the death. This was something that occurred to me more than once (the "informal spellcard rules").

There's also other people who fought Reimu twice back then (Rika, Marisa, Yuka, Alice), and imho the tone of the series kept everyone (including Reimu and the other playables) from really going past the spellcard rules. Which is good, generally, because for example if Shinki killed Reimu, we wouldn't have EoSD onwards, and if Reimu killed Shinki, there wouldn't be UFO, for example (unless Makai continued to exist without its creator. But anyways, anyone who has seen the ending of MS knows that Shinki and Yumeko are/were alive and well).

One of my main disappointments is how she suffered from being the first final boss on the series' first shmup. It's like a double edge, as later games (namely, LLS/MS) have more fun/creative patterns and stages. Regarding the Mary-Sue complaint problem, it could be "solved" (not that I'm saying that it "should" be "solved", as in demanding ZUN to do anything. Just exploring possibilities) by repeating Yuka's example: leave tiny bits of canon information, and Yuka continues to be a Mary-Sue in fanon and the tiny canon information that appears becomes enough fuel for fanworks.

More importantly (than how fandom views her), fandom tends to not catch the less obvious details such as Mima being a bigger Determinator than Marisa (at least as shown in PoDD), who's already canonically a Determinator (even though she does things on a whim, she's shown to be more logical compared to Reimu's carefreeness -- see EoSD's stage 1 dialogue), and that while there are many magicians in Gensokyo, very few of them come as close to the wizard archetype, and/or close to the astrology theme, and (regarding more details besides the more obvious "badass" factor) have a playful attitude towards stage 1 bosses and Shinkis alike. Still, Marisa "evolved" in a way such as (like Yorihime) she can't be considered someone else's shadow (no pun intended, really), as her personality, thoughts, etc., have a "mind" of their own.

[Magic The Shastri]

I find it interesting that even though the topic's author clearly stated he DOESN'T want us to point out we want Mima or Shinki back, people are still talking about Mima ...

I'm kinda bothered with the fact that Mima by far sucks most of the attention out of the PC-98 characters... a lot of Mima fans in the majority have never heard about most other PC-98 characters and most of their mima acknowledgement, came from fandom. Also, many of them wants her back just because the others are saying the same ... So, I'd say they're like Sheeples. Yeah, Sheeples. Not that all of those fans are, but I'd say most of them. (Wait, I'm overtalking about her as well, aren't I? Better to stop right here).

Now back to the topic, the character I want back is Elly. Just Elly all the way. I remember I liked her the first time I read about her on touhou wikia, and back then I wasn't even aware that Bad Apple was such a Popular song cause I was still a newcomer in Touhou. Even though, I still like her the same way I liked in the past. I love her appearance, her Scythe (Character design plays an important role for me) And the fact that she is related to Yuuka. But I know zun is never going to bring Elly back, so we'll have to stick to the few fan-games with her... sad, sad.

[Savory]

I find that odd. Yuuka made the jump to the Windows era, but where the heck is Elly?

[iK]

Yuuka's mansion was eaten and all that was left was the sunflower garden behind it~

[Spiderpig2398]

I'd enjoy seeing Kurumi return. Same could apply to Kana.

[Drake]

there's no data that supports the "less powerful" part, as neither of the character's full powers are known. Why's Yukari even mentioned?
[walls]

lol you guys blowing things out of proportion, starsword missed my mark almost completely
Mima's whole deal after SoEW is basically just "bug Reimu and do whatever i want", which is currently already being fulfilled by Yukari. Trying to avoid simple powerlevel discussion, I don't think it's a stretch of imagination to assume Mima isn't as overlordy as Yukari either, and she almost certainly isn't as powerful as fans tend to make her out to be. All that was meant is that Mima isn't as absurdly incredible as people seem to find her, and bringing her back would probably not fulfill the expectations quite a few people.

[Paper Conan]

I don't get why people make a big deal about people who make big deals about Mima.
Anyway, MS's Extra Stage midboss. Clearly, it is the best touhou of them all.

(Actually I want Mai because icicle fall + karakasa's surprising slash combo)

[shadowbringer]

I don't get why people make a big deal about people who make big deals about Mima.
Anyway, MS's Extra Stage midboss. Clearly, it is the best touhou of them all.

(Actually I want Mai because icicle fall + karakasa's surprising slash combo)

:/    (translation: I'm reminded of this touhou)

also :/ to me for forgetting Ruukoto. Who I wasn't as forgetful about, when Okuu was introduced.

lol you guys blowing things out of proportion, starsword missed my mark almost completely
Mima's whole deal after SoEW is basically just "bug Reimu and do whatever i want", which is currently already being fulfilled by Yukari. Trying to avoid simple powerlevel discussion, I don't think it's a stretch of imagination to assume Mima isn't as overlordy as Yukari either, and she almost certainly isn't as powerful as fans tend to make her out to be. All that was meant is that Mima isn't as absurdly incredible as people seem to find her, and bringing her back would probably not fulfill the expectations quite a few people.

thanks for the explanation, I tend to see Yukari more as a responsible manager (though seemingly more mathematically minded than her friend Yuyuko) who knows her limits (Higan, SA's former Hell, possibly but not stated Makai) but knows of ways to have some fun without harming her environment, besides doing some "corrections" as she deems necessary (her storyline in SWR, her and Eirin's plan for stopping the lunarians from thinking about coming to Earth to try to search for Eirin -- if what Eirin said was true, etc.), which she may not necessarily consider fun but needs to be done.

thoughts/opinions/etc:
- I haven't remembered about the "bug Reimu" aspect, in neither (thanks for the point of view)
- Yukari seems to be a better/more well prepared administrator than Mima, agree about it.
- agree about fan disappointment, can't really expect said fans to not be disappointed (their fault though, for not researching canon and thus not knowing the "source material" before they decide which -- canon or derivative -- version they like more), though imho she was given "screen time", but not much canonically developed as a character (outside of games), as well as the rest of the PC-98 cast.
- there's another possible effect, no matter which PC-98 character's development gets "expanded". While there's the worry that fanworks may become "jossed" due to "word of God" (sorry for referencing TV Tropes so much), new information (if not too restricting) can make up (or not) with more fanworks (which either base themselves on what the new canon has established or what it hasn't. I've even seen "what if" stories that contradict canon.).
- some subtle throwbacks to PC-98 (like Devil's Recitation) could be welcome as well, things like MS stage 2, enemies coming from behind in LLS stage 4, background being relevant for enemy placement (MoF stage 4 had it, for example; MS had it on stage 1, when enemies emerge after the abyss background past the midboss, there was a number of grounded enemies in PC-98 as well, maybe they could be used in a highspeed grounded section in a Windows game). Homing cheeto lasers too.

[Transugano Sora]

The only PC-98 character aside fro Shinki I really want to see back is Sariel.

So beautiful... And, I'd like to know more about Sariel...

[Nyarly]

Rika, Kotohime, Yumemi and Meira. Especially Meira, I really like her swordslash danmaku.