ZUN starts taking interest in religion

[Excelsus]

DO you know post-mysticism, ZUN' official fanbook released this january?Isnt the topic about religion? Wow, to think that touhou has a religion's war going around, it seems this is a serious book,but to me.... i think it's interesting approach. As he is a normal person, who never dwelled in theology. Means that im kinda curious what normal people tends to see about coexisting of the religion, and their disagreement between religion. Touhou seems to be a great choice. Gensokyo is still in an ancient time, so religion plays a big role here. But to use a game as a serious topic, dont you think it's a bit dangerous? Well to japanese people, whose religion didnt cover much about it, i think this will be an interesting topic.

[Frog]

Were MoF, UFO and TD not about religion also? 

[Momiji]

Gensokyo is still in an ancient time, so religion plays a big role here.

As far as it's basically assumed, Gensokyo is pretty much in real-time with the outside world.  So events in Gensokyo are happening ~now~.

But to be honest it's kind've an interesting thing, the dynamics of not just the different deities and religions, but the people from different areas of the world.

Would you be shocked to know there's an Iranian girl in Touhou?

[Takamachi Ruroha]

Ever since I thought about Amakusa Shiro as a Touhou, I have had a simmering desire to see Kakure Kirishitans as the antagonists in a new game. They would be the perfect answer to Miko's group and the perfect setup for a fighting game.

[iK]

Even if Gensokyo's events are happening co-currently with the outside world, it is trapped about 120 years in the past.

As far as I can tell, the current plot arc seems to be playing on the religious quarrels that took place in Japan over the past few hundred years, with the appearance of famous Taoists and Buddhists in Gensokyan form, it seems to be hinting at the cyclical nature of the world, and not at any particular interest in causing a religious uproar.

[Momiji]

Even if Gensokyo's events are happening co-currently with the outside world, it is trapped about 120 years in the past.

Not quite 'trapped', but Gensokyo in general ends up being the new home for figures of old who vanished to the mists of time.  Most of Gensokyo's population is exactly that.  Their 'sudden' appearance is kind of a game mechanic, but everything has been, in general, a response to previous events since Mountain of Faith.  Gensokyo does have an 'air' of the Old Japan, but that's because it's where the "Old Japan" people no longer believed in went to live.

But yeah, not really a 'religious uproar', more like old rivals trolling each other.  And then the miko comes out to clean up the rabble.

[Darth_Sirov]

Almost as if it's saying that if we die, we go to Gensokyo. So, the way I see it, Gensokyo = Heaven

[_cf]

As far as it's basically assumed, Gensokyo is pretty much in real-time with the outside world.  So events in Gensokyo are happening ~now~.

But to be honest it's kind've an interesting thing, the dynamics of not just the different deities and religions, but the people from different areas of the world.

Would you be shocked to know there's an Iranian girl in Touhou?

She doesn't look like a Shi'ite for me. Maybe she's from the old faith?

[iK]

I'm pretty sure faith has nothing to do with nationality.

[_cf]

I'm pretty sure faith has nothing to do with nationality.

It doesn't, but you'd be amazed by how many times in the past governments forgot about it.

[Desu_Cake]

Almost as if it's saying that if we die, we go to Gensokyo. So, the way I see it, Gensokyo = Heaven

Only if you're famous. Or a youkai. Or a god.

[Magic The Shastri]

Kakure Kirishitans as the antagonists in a new game.

While I want the next touhou game to be all about japanese mythology, with real japanese youkai and japanese gods, such as Amaterasu, Susanoo or Raijin... I'd support this idea. (Because kakure kirishitans are still considered japanese even though they're affiliated with the apostolic roman catholic church).

Anyway, I'd prefer if zun got back to his roots in order to make another very japanese game like IN (based after the tale of Bamboo-Cutter) or MoF (Shinto religion). I never liked much the idea of zun making the atmosphere of gensokyo more "heterogeneous" by including Buddhism and Taoism.

Judging by the way things are going, I'd not be surprised if the next game were about something like Tibetan Mythology.

[Tengukami]

Anyway, I'd prefer if zun got back to his roots in order to make another very japanese game like IN (based after the tale of Bamboo-Cutter) or MoF (Shinto religion). I never liked much the idea of zun making the atmosphere of gensokyo more "heterogeneous" by including Buddhism and Taoism.

Buddhism and Taoism have existed in Japan for centuries.

Means that im kinda curious what normal people tends to see about coexisting of the religion, and their disagreement between religion. Touhou seems to be a great choice. Gensokyo is still in an ancient time, so religion plays a big role here.

It could very well be argued that the history of religion in Japan is the history of Japan itself. A great many of the cultural and political upheavals that shaped Japan into what it is today are rooted in the faiths that have competed for dominance, co-existence, or even plain survival there. As ZUN seems to be somewhat of a history buff, it's not surprising that he would have a keen interest in religious conflict in Japan, too.

[Darth_Sirov]

Only if you're famous. Or a youkai. Or a god.

One can hope to wish...

[Magic The Shastri]

Buddhism and Taoism have existed in Japan for centuries.

Okay, let me make it more clear in case you didn't understand.

What I was trying to mean is that even though Buddhism and Taoism existed in japan for centuries, those two religions didn't actually originate from japan. Rather, those were rooted in India and China respectively. Differently from Shinto that actually emerged from Japan.

[Momiji]

She doesn't look like a Shi'ite for me. Maybe she's from the old faith?

Yes, she would be Zoroastrian.

I'm pretty sure faith has nothing to do with nationality.

Olololol, you know nothing of Japan's history with Shinto.

I never liked much the idea of zun making the atmosphere of gensokyo more "heterogeneous" by including Buddhism and Taoism.

What's wrong with mixing things up a bit?  Makes for great game plots.

Differently from Shinto that actually emerged from Japan.

Shinto is essentially the evolution of the original mythologies of Japan.  Korea, for example, also has similar animistic/shamanistic beliefs, although they were initially mostly supplanted by strict Buddhism, then by Christianity.

As for Buddhism's role in Japan, it took a very symbiotic role with Shinto, each being followed together and providing different religious roles (to the point of having combined Jinja/Jingu).  I'd elaborate but I don't know if it'd be appropriate for TARC.

[巫女パン Trade Shrine]

Considering that ZUN views Japanese culture as a natural evolution of other East Asian cultures (IIRC it was in the IN spellcard commentary, or an interview), I think that Buddhism and Daoism complements things in Gensokyo there. It doesn't matter that they aren't originally from Japan, really, provided that the local interpretation of such ideas fits the existing order well.

Now, adding Christianity to TH14's plot fits from historical standpoint, but for the actual religion, well, I'm not sure that Christianity's well-integrated in modern Japan, China, or Taiwan (Korea, however...a bit shocking if you ask me).

[iK]

Olololol, you know nothing of Japan's history with Shinto.

I was making a comment in reference to _cf's notion regarding Parsee, to clarify.

[Tengukami]

Magic the Shastri: I'm aware of the origins of Buddhism and Taoism, but it doesn't change my point. They've existed in Japan for longer than Christianity has existed in the west. As such, they have both taken fully "Japanese" forms in Japan, in much the same way that Christianity in the US bears almost no resemblance to the original Middle Eastern faith. So I think calling the inclusion of Buddhism and Taoism in Touhou "heterogeny" is a little far-fetched. Japanese Bhuddism is about as Indian as a Big Mac is German.

I know a lot of people have this admiration for Japan as being some pure, untouched culture, but in reality, she's heavily influenced by her neighbors. The Japanese are very adept at borrowing from others and creating their own take on it, which is a sign of a thriving, successful culture. Truly homogenous cultures tend to be stagnant and underdeveloped.

[Unassuming Squid]

I think people who don't like other cultures being mixed into Gensokyo are forgetting that we have an entire mansion of people from Europe that's been there for almost a decade, at least.

Also people who think Gensokyo is stuck in the middle ages seem to forget that there's a nuclear reactor embedded in the mountain now.

Either way, I think the best part about Gensokyo is exactly the fact that it's so diverse, not just in character concepts but in nationalities, religions, origins, and pretty much everything else. Sure it's primarily Japanese, but there's a mishmash of all this other stuff that, surprisingly enough, fits perfectly there despite being completely different. ZUN's good at making everything mesh in the world he's made, so if he wants to explore non-Japanese religions in the next game, I have high hopes.

[Darth_Sirov]

I think people who don't like other cultures being mixed into Gensokyo are forgetting that we have an entire mansion of people from Europe that's been there for almost a decade, at least.

Also people who think Gensokyo is stuck in the middle ages seem to forget that there's a nuclear reactor embedded in the mountain now.

Either way, I think the best part about Gensokyo is exactly the fact that it's so diverse, not just in character concepts but in nationalities, religions, origins, and pretty much everything else. Sure it's primarily Japanese, but there's a mishmash of all this other stuff that, surprisingly enough, fits perfectly there despite being completely different. ZUN's good at making everything mesh in the world he's made, so if he wants to explore non-Japanese religions in the next game, I have high hopes.

I recall things like comm. towers get transported into Gensokyo if they are being forgotten.

[haoreos2]

Also people who think Gensokyo is stuck in the middle ages seem to forget that there's a nuclear reactor embedded in the mountain now.

It's more of a Schizo Tech setting than a Medieval Stasis one, but the setting is still closer to a medieval one with a bit of anachronism thrown in than one with modern-day people but with magic.

I recall things like comm. towers get transported into Gensokyo if they are being forgotten.

Those would probably be too large to qualify, and even if they did, there'd probably be no infrastructure to use them.

[Starxsword]

Indeed, a communications tower did appear in Gensokyo.

[Drake]

Going to have to cross out that other part of the sentence brah, Yukari uses these towers to use her cell phones.

[haoreos2]

 /Rumia'sCatchPhrase? Always assumed it was magic.

Poor sentence, we hardly knew ye.

(Although, if so, Yukari probably brought them in for exactly that purpose rather than just taking advantage of one that happened to slip in.)

[Firestorm29]

Ya know, when I read about that tower, it made me think of Gensokyo being the other end of the Bermuda Triangle for a moment.

I would find it interesting to see where he goes from here with the religion themes, more because I'm not too familiar about how much influence Christianity has or how it's viewed. I just remember seeing an ad about a christian on one of the train lines.

[Desu_Cake]

inb4next game is actually about egyptian mythology

[Darth_Sirov]

Indeed, a communications tower did appear in Gensokyo.

Thanks for the added reference... I love how Yukari trolled Reimu on that chapter as well as Marisa thought of trying to climb up the tower with a megaphone.

[Excelsus]

inb4next game is actually about egyptian mythology

It sounds great, the roman and greek mythology might appears as well.. the vedic mythology also, what i want to see is actually you know what i mean christian, jew, and muslims, but considering the real world's problem, it will be a very bad move by zun, if he goes with this route. But a christian girl appears in ZUN cd cover, she might be in the next game, but we never know...

[game2011]

Since this book is the reason this thread exists in the first place, I might as well bring this up here, in case some people don't know yet.  Symposium of Post-mysticism has been delayed to March.