Vanilla Mafia II (Game over, town wins!)

[BT]

And before you decide to AGAIN take my words out of context, what I meant by "didn't have the grounds to" included "didn't have enough to scream 'scum'".

[Bardiche]

So Pesco how about this Shadoweh wagon can I convince you to switch to NOT ME over ME?

BT: You added addendums on how you were suspicious of Pesco all along so your vote was always meant to go there except you didn't dare. I'm saying it's scummy to try and justify your vote with "I was suspicious all along", because if that were true you'd not call him Neutral. You'd say SCUMMY.

Cut by BT: Ololol. It's not taking out of context, it's taking them as-is. You're saying you aren't bandwagoning because you were suspicious of him all along before voting him. That's just bad. Say someone is scummy if you think they're scummy, not 'neutral UGH' and then go "I was convicting him without convicting him", that's too abstract shit to wrap my head around.

[Bardiche]

Also PX how about tossing a case in here before going LOLSLIP.

[J.O.B]

Pesco self voting like that was scummy in it's own right, but I actually think that it's honest townie frustration instead.
The rest is lolwut? That wagon is bad. I agree with Bard. I think BT's wagon hop was questionable, but I think it's really just a newbie derp, I would have probably done that if I was still new (I'm not that new anymore guys).

And I seriously have no idea how Shadoweh never seems that suspicious to me at all. It's not just in this game, but a lot of games too. If someone could restate the case on her, I'd really appreciate it.

[Bardiche]

I mean no serious, while I like having more votes on wagons I support I also like them being grounded and foundated and yours is neither. Produce case, what the shit man. Why is everyone in this game scum, and why can't we just policylynch the shit out of people like PX?

JOB as long as you act confused I'll call you a newbie, deal with it. (this is mostly better because like BT, it means I won't yell for your head as much)

[BT]

Ok, let me try something else. He wasn't "suspicious" all along. Rather, I had "reasons to suspect him". This does NOT equal scummy, because, aside reasons like these, reasons that suggest otherwise exist too. For me, it was good content. Then came HW and presented how this content wasn't as good as it had seemed, taking my reasoning for "neutral UGH" away.

It's nice and all being considered scum for being a newbie, then dismissed because of being a newbie. Instead, I'm trying to show you how this wasn't a newbie thing in the first place. Apparently, all this suspicion originated because I wasn't clear about this in my vote post, and this is the only 'newbie mistake' I see here, one I'm trying to fix right now.

[Bardiche]

Shadoweh's case:
- She's done scummy shit so let's lynch her for being scum.
- Lol WIFOM to defend herself. "Why would Scum!Shadoweh do this?!" is WIFOM.
- Lol WIFOM to make a Day 2 case. Pesco is scum because NK. Using the same logic against her obviously doesn't apply! Shadoweh is scum because she planned to do this from the start! OMG! It's wonderful! And useless. Utterly. Shadoweh makes a terrible case and that's her Day 2 contribution after spending a few hours Not Voting but seeing how the waters flow.
- Her vote is ultimately on Serela. While still arguing Pesco scum. Vote on Serela is sniper, case is admittedly not too terrible.
- Lol Appeal to Emotion to defend herself.
- Backpedaling on Dan: first he's 'probably green-coloured' (being generous, she moreso implied he was Town for her) and then she's 'never had a Town read on Dan' and votes him. Off of a wagon she pushed for at first. Scummy as shit? Admittedly, more weird than super scummy. Notable? Yes, because scum're the type to forget whether someone read town to them or not: anyone not scum is obviously a town read for them! Townies are actively looking for whether someone is scum or town and wouldn't forget an important detail like that. Unless they're derps but Shadoweh's not a derp. Unless booze has finally killed her brain.
- Vote on Pesco is OMGUS AtE.

Succinct as can be.


@BT: And that's appreciated because it lends some clarity. The point I had most issue with was with the "I convicted Pesco without convicting him" "because I thought it'd be impossible to lynch him and I'd get shit for it" (paraphrased). Read any way for me, it read as "I was actually suspicious of Pesco all along, really guys", which you must agree with if that was the message conveyed it's a bandwagon hop plain and clear, yes? That you didn't INTEND to convey that message goes a long way, but that's how it came over to me and in that light, I have little choice but regard it as a bandwagon hop.

Of course, PX has perfected that art by being goddamn useless and scum but no one wants to lynch the shit out of him.

HEY PESCO, SHADOWEH, HOW ABOUT WE CONSOLIDATE OUR WAGONS ON PX'S USELESS AS SHIT BANDWAGON HOPPING ARSE? I'd also want to lynch Dormio if not that he's doing better today beside his booze-induced stupidity earlier. (Deal with it Dormio, that was unpossible to read)

[Bardiche]

And if you have to ask me? In all the excitement I forgot all about PX's scummy as shit arse because he's getting away with lurking so heavily everyone forgets about him until someone randomly mentions his arse. Because he's useless, and delighting in it by not offering any improvement. He's getting away with lurking, posting shit content, contributing little and just bandwagon hopping. It's baffling he didn't jump on the Pesco wagon but his jump on the Shadoweh wagon isn't really that great.

Ugh, but if we don't lynch one of Pesco or Shadoweh today we'll be repeating this song and dance tomorrow. Can we at the very least agree PX is not living to see D4? Because holy shit I don't think I want his scummy arse in the game that long.

[J.O.B]

Thank you Bard.
I SEE THE LIGHT!!!!
Now I see why you guys are suspecting Shadoweh scum.

I agree.
##Vote Shadoweh

Cut by Bard.
Let's lynch PX tomorrow, you 'an me.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

(Deal with it Dormio, that was unpossible to read)

Which is why I reposted it, and then she continued to ignore it.

[Bardiche]

THAT MEANS SHADOWEH IS AT L-1 PEOPLE, SO DON'T YOU BRING YOUR TARTLY ARSE IN HERE AND HAMMER HER OUT OF NOWHERE.

[J.O.B]

Lolno.

[J.O.B]

I never unvoted silly
That was a gambit to see if any scum would expose themselves.

[Bardiche]

>_> Yeah I only parse ##VOTE commands.

[J.O.B]

Lol. I probably shouldn't have blown the cover so quickly. I'm surprised someone fell for it though. But not in the way I had planned (Plan was to get a vote on Shadoweh, then vote the scum who did it).

[BT]

I really think that it tells us nothing about what he really thinks

If this isn't what I "really think", than what were you expecting? I'm all ears.

Remember this? This is why you thought I'm 'weird', and I didn't get an answer yet.

Also, I want these questions answered:
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are scum? Why? (this is the easy one)
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town? Why? (this is the important one)

I believe we got into the Dan x PX shitfest last day because we didn't ask ourselves this. As for me, I have bad opinions on both, but I made it clear what choice I prefer, and I'm of the opinion that the chance of both of them being scum partners is so low it's practically impossible. If someone thinks they're conflicting town, say so now.

[J.O.B]

Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are scum? Why? (this is the easy one)
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town? Why? (this is the important one)

No. Because I now think Pesco is town.
No. Because I now think Shadoweh is scum.

[J.O.B]

For no apparent reason I was thinking of NK anal (in a non-dirty sense) and one of the reasons for the Schezo nightkill could possibly be killing a strong townie player that didn't have much to do with the scum in question.
Fun fact: PX only had Schezo's name appear 4 times in all of his posts this game. And one of them was in a quote by me. The most contact he actually had with Schezo was a vote on him.

Feel free to hate on me for saying that. I was just bored and had some random speculation.

[Pesco]

I'll take a BT or Shadoweh lynch as per my posts throughout this day. PX I still don't know about.

##Unvote

Kitten's rules don't require unvoting. So JOB's vote did count.

[J.O.B]

##Unvote
Lol I thought they did.

[J.O.B]

If you support a Shadoweh lynch then why didn't you hammer? You said it's better to vote who you definitely think is scum than to wait till deadline to lynch.

[Hero999]

I feel my play has only been going down since that game >_>

I do not believe both Pesco and Shadoweh, are scum.

I believe Pesco is town over Shadoweh due to the fact that I find Pesco's posts easy to read and look at, and Shadoweh is consistently using meta and theory.
Meta that I do not know having never seen her has town in the first place, and theory that just makes everyone more paranoid. Then after, she makes it sound like Pesco has a vendetta against her, and wants to kill her for the sake of killing her.

@Shadoweh: My Huh what case was dropped because I decided to trust my own analysis more.
Also seriously, how the hell do you think you can convince anyone with meta when at least 3 peoples here Don't Know Peoples Freaking Meta.

@Job: I really can't trust your views at all. Your vote posts don't say anything to me other then, "I want this lynch... NO I WANT THAT LYNCH. No I think I want the other lynch."

...I need to organize my thoughts more...

[Pesco]

Discussion is still going on. If we were sitting with hours between posts, then hammering to end it would be what people were waiting for.

[BT]

I'll take a BT lynch as per my posts throughout this day.

Is there any question you made about my behavior that I left unanswered? Were some answers lacking? You seemed to drop it out of nowhere, without updating your opinion on me, and now you're doing that but without explaining why it is so. If I'm still scum through your accusations, go ahead and explain why. If there's something else, you still need to explain what it is.

[J.O.B]

Discussion is still going on. If we were sitting with hours between posts, then hammering to end it would be what people were waiting for.

I thought so.

@Hero: It's nice to see you trying to do this by yourself for once. Now I would like to see something useful. I'm not sure if I can trust your views either. Oh wait, the majority of them are actually other peoples views.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Remember this? This is why you thought I'm 'weird', and I didn't get an answer yet.

I said that I dislike your #418.
Why? Because it just seems like you've been setting it up so that you can be on whatever wagon you want at any given time.
In addition, you find bad play, but give no reasoning on how that leads to scumminess.
Anyone can make mistakes, how does whatever mistake they made lead to them being scum?
It's just, how do I explain this? You're not looking for intent or something.
Except for Hero's one, which is the one you voted for.

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX

Not Voting: Shadoweh, Pesco, JOB

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~11 hours (watch countdown).

[Omba]

ITT Pesco stalls his wagon by voting himself. Seriously, it's like Shadoweh's AtE all over again. The fuck.

[Pesco]

BT's been overly defensive about how his actions make him look. Ass-backwards kind of scumhunting and lolbandwagonhop.

Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.

This is seriously strange. I don't get what's the point of declaring Omba to be town here.

##Vote BT

I want a BT flip the most now so that I can look into Omba as well. Omba's voting today has been kinda dodgy when you really think about it.

[BT]

BT's been overly defensive about how his actions make him look. Ass-backwards kind of scumhunting and lolbandwagonhop.

Overly defensive? If someone accuses me of something, and I can answer to it in some way, I do. That's what I did in our back-and-forth and now I'm legitimately concerned as to why you still suspect me, and you call it being overly defensive.

I already admitted countless times that I suck at scumhunting.

Do I really need to explain the "bandwagon" again?

This is seriously strange. I don't get what's the point of declaring Omba to be town here.

He thought the sudden reversal will make him look bad, so I felt the need to say it.