Author Topic: Vanilla Mafia II (Game over, town wins!) (Read 105996 times)

Kitten4u · « **Reply #510 on:** October 12, 2011, 03:49:55 AM »

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): Shadoweh, huh what, Omba
Serela (2): PX, Hero999
PX (1): JOB
Hero999 (2): BT, Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, Pesco

Not Voting:

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~22 hours (watch countdown).

Shadoweh · « **Reply #511 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:01:49 AM »

You touched on what exactly about Pesco's attacks have been pinging me the most. I haven't felt like he's been trying to get a read on me. That's what his prods are for. I feel like he misses Roukanken and wanted someone new to rage suicide into him. I will be the first to admit I haven't been obvtown. ,But I expect someone like Pesco to clear people on meta, not hang them for it. (Incidentally the mod never answered his question about the numbers and he kind of forgot about it? You're still welcome everyone, even if you've been ungrateful.) I have long stopped being able to tell if I'm actually being accused of doing something scummy or being Wrathie.

Omba · « **Reply #512 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:05:39 AM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on October 12, 2011, 02:49:46 AM

Omba: I mean the comment about one of us having to be scum, or that you would get lynched for either flip. It's still possible for both of us to be town trying to kill each other. It just seems nervous. You're more likely to die at night then ever get lynched.

About one of you two being scum: Both cases are pretty damn solid; more solid than any of the other cases flying around. Kind of the reason I've been on yours and then switched. More importantly, I've spent a lot of time thinking about how this spat between you two came to be; NK tells me it's highly likely scum is either two idiots or planned to set exactly something like this up, albeit with less backfiring. Then I weighed the probabilities of all the possible options I could think of and the only ones seeming remotely likely involve one of you two being scum. Which would be completely useless if it weren't for the two by far strongest cases pointing in exactly the same direction.

As for me getting lynched over this: Assuming Pesco is scum, that would have been exactly the right moment for idiot_scumMe to start a bus if I had thought he'd likely get lynched over you today.
And assuming you are scum, it'd be even more obvious since I'd be building a townie counter-wagon to scum.
And if by some miracle you're both town and got lynched before me... Well, the flips might not kill me in that case, but me saying one of you two has to be scum sure would.
Either way, completely throwing away my town read on the one person I haven't attacked a single time this game (at least I think I never did) looks pretty damning no matter what the resulting flip is.

--cut by huh what making one wall of a case and already pointing out how I could be bussing Pesco. :V
Technical comments later when I'm not tired as fuck.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #513 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:07:43 AM »

Quote from: Omba on October 12, 2011, 04:05:39 AM

--cut by huh what making one wall of a case and already pointing out how I could be bussing Pesco. :V

That wasn't what I was trying to imply. >:

Shadoweh · « **Reply #514 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:58:18 AM »

Oh man I heard this rumor there were more then three players in this game. APPARENTLY NOT.
HEY EVERYONE NOT NAMED HUH WHAT OR OMBA Get your behinds in here and tell us if you're switching/why we should care about your wagon instead. I would trust Keine over this lurkfest town right now.

J.O.B · « **Reply #515 on:** October 12, 2011, 05:17:57 AM »

@PX: You already quoted the case.

Huhwhat has changed my view on Pesco. I can't believe I did not see most of that. Pesco is looking really bad to me now.

Pesco · « **Reply #516 on:** October 12, 2011, 06:49:32 AM »

Sheep is delicious.

Don't care about posting for the rest of the day since I'm tired. I've said enough for the entire game as is.

##Unvote
##Vote Pesco

There's no need for me to post my suspects because you guys deserve to lose if I did post such a list and you end up following it.

J.O.B · « **Reply #517 on:** October 12, 2011, 06:52:31 AM »

Giving up is bad.

Pesco · « **Reply #518 on:** October 12, 2011, 06:53:15 AM »

Giving confirmable information is better.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #519 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:17:31 AM »

That was my idea first. Stop being a PX and play Mafia. I happen to know if you really are town that you're currently trying to send town down another mislynch, and probably a third with the newbie you hate for being a newbie as far as I can tell. Why don't you share your reads because it's what a good player would try to do in this situation?

BT · « **Reply #520 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:53:27 AM »

Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.

Quote from: Shadoweh on October 12, 2011, 02:08:04 AM

The entire PX wagon is probably town.

Please please don't make this assumption. There's plenty of chance that PX was town as well, making it easy for scum to be on either wagon as long as one of them succeeds (and that did happen).

About Pesco vs Shadoweh? If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads. Oh, and was also afraid of getting accused of OMGUS. HW's case just proves me wrong, though.

##Unvote
##Vote Pesco

Yes, this beats the Hero case. Defend yourself please?

Bardiche · « **Reply #521 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:58:36 AM »

When I see the current situation, I see this:

So BOTH of the current wagons are going HERPDERP LET'S JUST SURRENDER AND GIVE UP. Shadoweh less so than Pesco. Pesco in a completely uncharacteristic anti-Win play by thinking lynching himself is going to yield some magical Shadoweh = scum info, which sadly it only provides ~*CIRCUMSTANTIAL*~ evidence for.

Results of Pesco read. One of his early posts contains a good point against Dan, even if Dan now flipped Town. He makes a vote on Schezo early, and then switches to Dan with the most succinct case of the day. That's not exactly a happy thing. It's... huh, interesting how PX jumps on the Dan wagon with the exact same reason: Dan OMGUS'd. Opportunistic much?

Anyway, Pesco fixes this later and... well, that's mostly it, aside from more one-liners. Pesco is succinctness himself, but I'm not so sure it's exactly scummy. Someone'd need to restate the case on Pesco so I can clearly look at it, because right now I just don't see the scum. Day 2 posting isn't as bad as people are making it out to be, he's clearly scumhunting and I happen to agree Shadoweh was posting lots but refused to put her vote down or even look clearly in one direction to state that there was scum there.

Aside from the NK analysis stating one out of four people had to be scum, and that person was Pesco.

Christ are you all in some elaborate OMGUS ploy here or what?

Cut by BT bandwagon hopping blatantly. What the fuck?

PX · « **Reply #522 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:07:54 AM »

GUYS. STOP VOTING PESCO. PESCO IS AT L-!!

Shadoweh · « **Reply #523 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:08:58 AM »

Has JOB voted yet? No?
##Unvote

Dear Bard, I'm divorcing from defending myself constantly from you, there are only so many ways I can explain the same action before it gets stale. Want to lynch PX and Dormio? PS: I'll forgive your opinion since you're still suspicious of me, but you're due for some townie change of heart any time now. You haven't changed your opinion about anything in two days!

BT · « **Reply #524 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:11:44 AM »

Quote from: PX on October 12, 2011, 09:07:54 AM

GUYS. STOP VOTING PESCO. PESCO IS AT L-!!

Completely forgot to take into acount Pesco's self-vote. Although, last time I held off from voting because of L-.. well, we all know what happened.

Quote from: Bardiche on October 12, 2011, 08:58:36 AM

bandwagon hopping

Do you think I didn't go over my post ten times before deciding if it was bandwagonous or not? I had a not-so-good read on Pesco, I voiced my reasons for that read, and this last page "fills in the gaps". Why would I not "hop on the Pesco wagon" if I thought he was my worst read? Since, at the moment, he is.

Pesco · « **Reply #525 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:13:52 AM »

The way I see it, is that I don't get NK'd if 1) my reads are wrong and 2) scum feel confident in lynching me. People that I ignored for the most part on Day 1 have to be looked at on Day 2 because the game state demands it.

Quote from: BT on October 12, 2011, 08:53:27 AM

Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.

Wierd stuff. But that's up to you guys to look at.

Bardiche · « **Reply #526 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:14:40 AM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on October 12, 2011, 09:08:58 AM

Has JOB voted yet? No?
##Unvote

Dear Bard, I'm divorcing from defending myself constantly from you, there are only so many ways I can explain the same action before it gets stale. Want to lynch PX and Dormio? PS: I'll forgive your opinion since you're still suspicious of me, but you're due for some townie change of heart any time now. You haven't changed your opinion about anything in two days!

OK, want to lynch PX together?

Bardiche · « **Reply #527 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:17:15 AM »

Quote

Do you think I didn't go over my post ten times before deciding if it was bandwagonous or not?

I think you went over it a few times. Possibly together with a scumbuddy. Seriously, what? "Hey guys I'm not bandwagon hopping because I was secretely super suspicious of Pesco all along but thought voting him was suspicious :V"

Jesus fuck this should never be a motive not to scumhunt your scummiest read, what the shit. I'm thinking right now it's probably the NEWBIE HERPDERP so prevalent in MOTK Mafia newbies, but seriously, don't repeat that shit this game. Vote the scummiest person and to shit if that's gonna make you look scummy or not. You will NEVER get lynched for voting scummy shit, unless you word it as though you're not voting scummy shit at all or grasp completely wild concepts for it.

Bardiche · « **Reply #528 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:20:59 AM »

Also found HW's Pesco case so I'll read that. Hurff.

And on Shadoweh, still think she's scum. TBSS. AtE isn't necessarily town.

BT · « **Reply #529 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:38:58 AM »

Uh, he wasn't my scummiest read? And I wasn't "secretly suspicious" either. I voiced all my concerns at the time. I was suspicious, but not enough to go on a front. "This is probably a bad move" was a concern, yeah, but not one that stopped me from scumhunting, as I wasn't going to do that then either way.

Bardiche · « **Reply #530 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:45:58 AM »

Quad posting is Town. I disagree with the Pesco case. Obviously shielding my scumbuddy here, but no, I don't see Pesco scum the way you lot do.

I'm not going to provide a defence for his actions, and I can certainly see how you might draw the conclusions Huh What's done, but I don't agree with the case on the simple basis that it is not that concrete. The mudslinging point against Pesco is absurd, given Shadoweh agreed to the point more or less by swapping off the PX wagon and onto Dan as a result. If anything, I'd hold that against Pesco, but it struck me more as a Townie convinced Dan was scum than it does for scum to do.

The rest of the links HW provides are all mudslinging themselves, calling Pesco scum for legitimate points, I feel. If Shadoweh votes based on GUT! and someone claims she's Town for it, why is asking for elaboration trying to make her look bad? I just don't see the case, and I'm not too happy with Huh What's claim that "Pesco is less likely to just be terrible Town", which feels like a setup to later abandon the Hero case if the mood strikes him.

Yeah no, I don't like the Pesco wagon. Sorry. I'll be sticking to my guns here. Shadoweh's done no scum hunting until a while into D2, sniping at Serela immediately after Serela posts despite information on Serela being readily available. Why not dig through that earlier? Why at all open the day with ~*NK SPECULATION*~ in a game where you can likely get BT, JOB and Serela as staunch supporters given their propensity in voting?

I've seen better from Shadoweh, and honestly this behaviour is totes unShadowehlike and would be SCUMMY coming from anyone else as well. Universally scummy + Shadoweh not-meta. THERE, CAN ALL THE METADERPS AGREE TO IT NOW?

Quote

If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads.

How is this at all saying you weren't stopped from scumhunting?

Quote

This usually isn't enough to scream 'scum', but I have other things bugging me which I have yet to identify. Honestly, if not for the exceptionally good content, I probably would have been making a case right about now. Neutral but UGH.

Quote

Honestly, if not for the exceptionally good content

Quote

I probably would have been making a case right about now

Let me repeat that.

Quote

I probably would have been making a case right about now

You're saying you were suspicious of Pesco all along. Granted, you note it. You never said he was scum, just NEUTRAL UGH, that he's got exceptionally good content which stays your hand from making a case. What changed between then and now that he's suddenly SUPER SCUM that you were grand suspicious of and convicted without actually being afraid to pursue the case?

You said it your goddamn self.

Quote

I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it

"I was sure... I'd get even more shit for it."
You didn't want to vote him because you'd get shit for it. What changed, aside from a wagon now forming on Pesco? You're blatantly bandwagon hopping.

BT · « **Reply #531 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:01:51 AM »

The way you're going at this now, no explanation of mine will make you happy. Despite this, let me try explaining it all again.

I make a huge post. I reread everyone. I find stuff to warrant suspicion on Pesco, but as a whole it's not enough to be a prime suspect, so I don't go places with it. HW comes and presents a case that cements my concerns, and I now feel that Pesco IS my prime suspect, so I vote.

Those are the occurrences. Now let me see what your concerns are.

"Getting shit for it" was a concern. Not a prime concern. Pesco was a suspect. Not a prime suspect. I had worse reads, so I didn't vote. "Getting shit for it" was a concern that ADDED to that decision, not made the decision.

What changed? Is this an honest question? Yes, more people voting Pesco is a change. No, it is not the only change. HW posted a case I agree on. Did it add to my former suspicions? Yes, it did. Did it make me change my mind about my prime suspect? Yes, it did. Did the wagon on Pesco also contribute? Obviously. Was it what made me vote? Obviously not.

Pesco · « **Reply #532 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:05:30 AM »

Quote from: BT on October 12, 2011, 10:01:51 AM

I find stuff to warrant suspicion on Pesco

Wrong. You suspect a person and then find stuff to back it up.

BT · « **Reply #533 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:07:31 AM »

Way to claim something you can't prove and I can't reject.

Bardiche · « **Reply #534 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:13:59 AM »

No, he's right. You first suspect someone and then use shit to back it up. You don't first dig up stuff with the express purpose of throwing shit on them: that's what scum do, we call it "fabricating cases" by construing innocuous shit into "LOL SCUMMY" and goad the masses along.

I still dislike your reasoning for suddenly jumping the Pesco wagon. It would've been fine if you highlighted your earlier passage, compounded it with how HW made you SEE THE LIGHT that Pesco's EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD CONTENT (your words not mine) is suddenly not even close to being good! Yeahno, your vote's shit.

The Pesco wagon's shit. Shadoweh is scum, BT is scummy, HW is neutral and Pesco is being a derptard by voting himself. Oh, and Omba's employing WIFOM in advance. Jesus fuck how can I like the Pesco wagon if the only one I could hold in any regard is HW, and the rest of its voting bloc is seven kinds of derp and/or scum?

Bardiche · « **Reply #535 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:14:37 AM »

Omba falling in the derp category what with the WIFOM, prior to this and beside this I haven't found anything objectionable in his content, so.

Bardiche · « **Reply #536 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:19:12 AM »

Also obvious chainsaw there for my scumbuddy but no. Shadoweh's vote reads like OMGUS, BT is bandwagon hop and HW's at least legit. Pesco's vote is obviously shit, and Omba's vote I'm not sure what to make of. This leaves a voting value (LOL PESCO) of 1.5, being generous.

Pesco had REAL INTENT on Shadoweh as do I, voting value 2.0, even discounting Dormio. The rest of you are scattered about and lurklurklurk. Even Dormio is lurklurklurk. I wish we had roles so we could vig the shit out of these policy-lynch candidates.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #537 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:19:47 AM »

I go off to recuperate for a bit and then... The hell is going on?

I dislike Pesco's change in behaviour, and have no idea how to approach it.
I'd say that it's anti-town, but is it going to scummy territory? Eh. I'm leaning no.

I still want Shadoweh lynched for what I stated earlier.

Also, I like how Shadoweh accuses Pesco of mudslinging and stuff when she does a similar thing to me.
In #447 she says that I typed garbage, which I will concede. Keep me away from booze during mafia.
However, I rewrote it in #459 and how does Shadoweh address it? Well, first off, she completely ignores it until #493 where she just dismisses it again.

I also dislike how Shadoweh seems to disregard all of Pesco's cases against her by AtE.
I mean, she sees it fit to post shit like:

Quote from: Shadoweh on October 12, 2011, 04:01:49 AM

I have long stopped being able to tell if I'm actually being accused of doing something scummy or being Wrathie.

because Pesco is being aggressive in his tone.

PX · « **Reply #538 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:20:36 AM »

Anyways, none of this stuff is making sense so I'll just stick to what I had earlier, since the Serela lynch isn't happening.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

Perhaps I can make sense of this stuff after some sleep.

Cut by bards what?

cut afgasin by doemio sleeeeeeeeep no

BT · « **Reply #539 on:** October 12, 2011, 10:23:36 AM »

Quote from: Bardiche on October 12, 2011, 10:13:59 AM

No, he's right. You first suspect someone and then use shit to back it up. You don't first dig up stuff with the express purpose of throwing shit on them

Is that what he meant? If that's true, then I completely misunderstood.

Quote from: Bardiche on October 12, 2011, 10:13:59 AM

I still dislike your reasoning for suddenly jumping the Pesco wagon. It would've been fine if you highlighted your earlier passage, compounded it with how HW made you SEE THE LIGHT that Pesco's EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD CONTENT (your words not mine) is suddenly not even close to being good! Yeahno, your vote's shit.

Hello? How is what I did with my vote different from that? "I had some original suspicions, didn't have the grounds to do anything big with them, HW posted a case, now I do." Dearly sorry I had to expand my words to make the exact same point, and somehow go from "scummy" to not. If you consider my reasoning shit, then I don't know where to start here.

Would love some other opinions here.